Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / IDAHO STUDENT MURDERS: SUSPECT EXTRADITED, Eerie Details Emerge

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IDAHO STUDENT MURDERS: SUSPECT EXTRADITED, Eerie Details Emerge · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Bombshell. Now in the last hours,
0:17
Speaker 1: the prime and only suspect in the Idaho mass killing
0:22
Speaker 1: a four beautiful young Idaho University students has waived extradition.
0:30
Speaker 1: I mean, I see, Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank
0:32
Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and
0:34
Speaker 1: Serious XM one eleven. What happens now, Well, take a
0:39
Speaker 1: listen to this. It is a quirk. Apparently it's not
0:42
Speaker 1: in the norm of the states I'm familiar with that
0:45
Speaker 1: Idaho does not release their probable cause after David in
0:49
Speaker 1: support of their arrest warrant until after their defendant is
0:53
Speaker 1: brought a return to that state. But having read those
0:57
Speaker 1: documents and the seal after David's a probable cause, I
1:02
Speaker 1: definitely believe that one of the main reasons the defendant
1:06
Speaker 1: chose to wave extradition and hurry his return back to
1:09
Speaker 1: Idaho was to need to know what was in those documents.
1:14
Speaker 1: So that's a significant development. You are hearing Mike Mancuso,
1:18
Speaker 1: the first Assistant District attorneym Monroe County. That's in Pennsylvania
1:22
Speaker 1: where Coburger has been held and we believe is being
1:26
Speaker 1: held right now. The judge in this case, the judge,
1:30
Speaker 1: as far as it goes in Pennsylvania, ordered the defendant
1:34
Speaker 1: to be transported back to Idaho to be there within
1:38
Speaker 1: ten days. Now, an extradition hearing is actually a very
1:43
Speaker 1: simple matter, but Coburger waved his right to an extradition hearing,
1:49
Speaker 1: and you're hearing Mancuso opine that it's because he has
1:53
Speaker 1: an insatiable desire to know the intimate facts supporting his arrest.
2:02
Speaker 1: What more do we know about the extradition Take a
2:05
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Inside Edition. Brian Coburger, accused
2:08
Speaker 1: of slaughtering before Idaho University students, appears in court in shackles.
2:14
Speaker 1: His mother and sister arrived for the brief hearing arm
2:17
Speaker 1: in arm, their faces mask. His father, also wearing a mask,
2:21
Speaker 1: was a few steps behind them. When Brian Coburger entered
2:24
Speaker 1: the courtroom here in Pennsylvania, his eyes went directly to
2:27
Speaker 1: his family members seated in the front row, Dad, mom,
2:31
Speaker 1: and two sisters, all holding tissues. Coburger listened intently to
2:35
Speaker 1: the judge, even responding verbally with answers like yes, I
2:39
Speaker 1: have yes, I understand now. When he was led out
2:42
Speaker 1: of the courtroom, he did look back at his family
2:44
Speaker 1: and now the words I love you. We also know
2:48
Speaker 1: that the judge specifically asked him in court is he
2:52
Speaker 1: mentally competent to waive the extradition hearing? And he answered yes,
2:57
Speaker 1: I am. But I've heard from a different source that
3:01
Speaker 1: his lawyer there in Pennsylvania also ordered a psychological exam.
3:06
Speaker 1: Now what does that mean? Does that makes sense? Does
3:09
Speaker 1: that jibe that he's saying, yes, I'm mentally competent to
3:12
Speaker 1: wave extradition while his lawyer is filing a psychological exam request. No,
3:17
Speaker 1: it is an inconsistent But guess what it doesn't have
3:21
Speaker 1: to be. This judge, Judge Margherita Worthington, I got to
3:25
Speaker 1: hand it to her, was very succinct, not to the
3:29
Speaker 1: point of being kurt, but succinct and by the book.
3:32
Speaker 1: And that is what we need right now. And I'll
3:35
Speaker 1: tell you why this guy is on his way to
3:39
Speaker 1: a phud in criminology. He probably thinks he knows it all.
3:44
Speaker 1: He has studied criminal procedure, He knows a lot about
3:47
Speaker 1: the system. And I guarantee you he has a writing
3:51
Speaker 1: it down somewhere and giving it to his lawyers every
3:54
Speaker 1: time he thinks there has been some sort of constitutional error,
4:00
Speaker 1: such as he didn't get his miranda rights, or he
4:03
Speaker 1: wasn't given a lawyer immediately when he asked for one.
4:05
Speaker 1: It could be any number of things. That's just hypothetical,
4:09
Speaker 1: but I guarantee you the state, and I mean the
4:12
Speaker 1: transporters that carry him to Idaho, the jail guards, the judge,
4:17
Speaker 1: the lawyers better cross theorities and dot their eyes because
4:21
Speaker 1: this guy is watching everything with me and All Star panel.
4:26
Speaker 1: To make sense of what we know right now, first,
4:29
Speaker 1: I want to go straight out to the director and
4:32
Speaker 1: founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, forensic expert and
4:36
Speaker 1: currently on the beat. That's right, she's current law enforcement.
4:40
Speaker 1: You can find her at Coldcase crimes dot org. Cheryl McCollum. Okay,
4:44
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. The whole time you and I were trying
4:47
Speaker 1: to figure out who is the killer, did you expect
4:52
Speaker 1: anybody like Brian Christian co Burger. No. I expected it
4:58
Speaker 1: to be somebody very close in the neighborhood, so to speak.
5:03
Speaker 1: I thought he would be within fifteen miles. I thought
5:05
Speaker 1: he would know the area. I still believe it was targeted.
5:08
Speaker 1: I think he knew these folks somehow, and I thought
5:12
Speaker 1: it was somebody very bright, but I had no idea
5:15
Speaker 1: that it was going to be a PhD student who
5:18
Speaker 1: had been studying different killers. Hey Cheryl, guys, let me
5:22
Speaker 1: also remind you Cheryl McCollum just launched an incredible knew
5:27
Speaker 1: podcast that I love, even though I haven't been formally
5:31
Speaker 1: invited to be on yet. Zone seven. This is an
5:36
Speaker 1: incredible inside look at what law enforcement does every single day,
5:43
Speaker 1: the things that all the things that go behind what
5:46
Speaker 1: we have right here. And I'm going to throw this
5:49
Speaker 1: out to Dell Carson and remember everybody again, I don't
5:52
Speaker 1: know why I have to keep telling you guys, we're
5:54
Speaker 1: not having high tea at winds Or Tassel with King Charles. Okay,
5:58
Speaker 1: jump in for Pete's sake if you have an idea,
6:01
Speaker 1: because a lot of the ideas that we generated right here,
6:05
Speaker 1: I've seen police dealing. I certainly don't take credit for
6:07
Speaker 1: what they're doing, but jump in, and you never know,
6:12
Speaker 1: no prosecutor, no cop can't do with a little help.
6:19
Speaker 1: So to del Carson joined me, high profile lawyer out
6:22
Speaker 1: of jacksonal And this is what I really like about him.
6:24
Speaker 1: Former FBI Asian and former cop in Miami Dade, and
6:28
Speaker 1: I'd like to say there's certainly no lack of business there.
6:31
Speaker 1: So he's got plenty of war stories, which right now
6:34
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in. Del Carson, I mentioned it in
6:36
Speaker 1: Brian Christian co Burger. You just heard Cheryl McComb say, well,
6:41
Speaker 1: I thought he was this, I thought it was that,
6:43
Speaker 1: but I didn't expect Brian Coburger. Everything she said describes
6:47
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger. I think it is his demeanor and his
6:50
Speaker 1: appearance as something we really didn't expect. He's a hulking
6:55
Speaker 1: six foot tall, but he's a wraith and very very thin,
6:59
Speaker 1: I guess due to is a strict vegan diet. But
7:04
Speaker 1: he's very pale. He's almost emaciated looking, and he has
7:11
Speaker 1: a very intense stare which I would not like to
7:15
Speaker 1: see looking through my bedroom wind. I can just tell
7:18
Speaker 1: you that much. But she also Cheryl McCollum also described
7:23
Speaker 1: someone that was brilliant. I don't know how brilliant he was,
7:26
Speaker 1: but that's what that's what his teachers say. Can I
7:30
Speaker 1: tell you something, Delle Carson, which you probably already know.
7:34
Speaker 1: When you get a PhD. Of course you have as
7:37
Speaker 1: yours doctrine. But when I went on to get lll M.
7:43
Speaker 1: After my law degree, you get to steer your studies
7:49
Speaker 1: and right, and just got Morgan and I've talked about
7:51
Speaker 1: this a little bit. I got my degree, my additional
7:55
Speaker 1: degree in constitutional and criminal law, and I studied all
7:59
Speaker 1: things criminal from the perspective of how do you prosecute
8:03
Speaker 1: and catch and build all sorts of criminal cases? Rico, video, gambling,
8:08
Speaker 1: you name it. This guy Deale Carson picked interviewing and
8:17
Speaker 1: questioning violent felons with questions like, what were you thinking
8:23
Speaker 1: at the time you killed her? I was going through
8:27
Speaker 1: your mind? What about it? Delle Carson? Well, I mean
8:30
Speaker 1: this is sort of like Bundy in many ways, and
8:33
Speaker 1: they have that fixed stare, that Bundy head that Wayne
8:36
Speaker 1: Williams had, and they simply are thinking that they know
8:41
Speaker 1: more than everybody else, which is typical of a sociopath
8:45
Speaker 1: or a narcissist in the extreme. And that seems to
8:49
Speaker 1: be where he's coming from, which means that he doesn't
8:52
Speaker 1: have any compassion for anybody, and in that light, it
8:55
Speaker 1: makes it easy or to kill somebody. And I am
9:00
Speaker 1: always of the belief that he's doing this because very
9:03
Speaker 1: few people who are at that level of education also
9:08
Speaker 1: have committed the crimes, and if he were successful at this,
9:12
Speaker 1: he'd have a leg up over everybody else who discusses this.
9:16
Speaker 1: We had a police professor at University of Florida who
9:20
Speaker 1: came and worked for the sheriff's office in Jacksonville and
9:23
Speaker 1: then wrote a book about it because he had actual,
9:26
Speaker 1: not just academic, but actual experience about what law enforcement
9:31
Speaker 1: officers went through. And it wouldn't surprise me in the
9:33
Speaker 1: least if he's not headed the same direction, except he's
9:37
Speaker 1: not finding out what cops are going through. He's finding
9:39
Speaker 1: out the emotions and the thinking and decision making violent
9:44
Speaker 1: felons like murderers and rapists at the time they commit
9:47
Speaker 1: the crime. Jackie, did I just actually say Brian Christian
9:51
Speaker 1: co Barker because this Brian Christopher Coburger, I guess thinking
9:55
Speaker 1: about this guy, Mayson want to say a prayer in
9:57
Speaker 1: the back of my head, it's Brian Christopher Coburger, Okay,
10:03
Speaker 1: speaking of his very bizarre research take a less an
10:08
Speaker 1: hour cut to sixty in Our Friends at Fox thirteen,
10:11
Speaker 1: Ghosh is part of the computer science department. He says,
10:13
Speaker 1: Coburger talk to him about his studies in the Criminology
10:16
Speaker 1: and Criminal Justice Department said, I think he said like
10:21
Speaker 1: he does it experimentally, goes and talk to people. Ghost
10:24
Speaker 1: believes Coburger lived alone. The Associated Press also reports that
10:28
Speaker 1: he graduated from Northampton Community College in Pennsylvania, with a
10:31
Speaker 1: spokesperson from the college saying that he received an Associate
10:34
Speaker 1: of Arts degree in psychology in twenty eighteen. Coburger's apartment
10:38
Speaker 1: is only about a fifteen minute drive from the rental
10:40
Speaker 1: home where the four students were stabbed to death. I'm
10:42
Speaker 1: going to go to Joe Scott, but quickly I want
10:44
Speaker 1: to circle back to Cheryl McCollum, and Karen started joining me.
10:48
Speaker 1: I hope you're percolating on everything you're hearing. Cheryl McCollum,
10:51
Speaker 1: I seem to recall that on one or two occasions
10:56
Speaker 1: you were in and out of the pre trial negotiation
11:00
Speaker 1: room when we would have an arrangement calendar of you know,
11:04
Speaker 1: one hundred hundred and fifty people, all fellows. Absolutely, I
11:07
Speaker 1: had a particular judge, It's Judge Luther Alberson. When the
11:10
Speaker 1: best judges I ever practiced in front of I, my investigator,
11:16
Speaker 1: and the defense attorney for each defendant would come into
11:19
Speaker 1: the room, and the defendant, even the jail of defendants
11:22
Speaker 1: to be brought over, and they would sit an initial
11:24
Speaker 1: pre trial negotiation where I would say, either there's not
11:28
Speaker 1: going to be a deal, this guy's going to trial,
11:31
Speaker 1: or I would give a you know, plea negotiation. Can
11:34
Speaker 1: I tell you something I never once dealing with child
11:39
Speaker 1: rapist murderers, burglars killers, I never once thought to ask,
11:49
Speaker 1: at the moment you stabbed her in the torso, what
11:53
Speaker 1: were you feeling? That is best accords? What is that? Well,
12:00
Speaker 1: it's probably out of my wheelhouse, out of your league.
12:04
Speaker 1: But in all those times inside of my league, all right,
12:07
Speaker 1: I'm not a shriek. But do you remember all those
12:09
Speaker 1: descendants who would think, hey, Jackie, when you rate that
12:15
Speaker 1: little kid, what were you thinking? Oh? Hell no, I
12:20
Speaker 1: would say something like, you make me sit, get the
12:22
Speaker 1: hell out of this room. You're going down for a
12:24
Speaker 1: live trailer, please don't care. That would be something like
12:28
Speaker 1: what I would want to say. I did say, go ahead. Well,
12:32
Speaker 1: from week one I said this guy was going to
12:34
Speaker 1: have some bundy, you know, ask tendencies to him. Oh oh,
12:37
Speaker 1: there goes Chary McCollum's own seven patter herself on the back.
12:40
Speaker 1: Go on, Cheryl, I'm just trying to lay it out
12:43
Speaker 1: for people. Wow, I'm asked killing across from fraternity row.
12:48
Speaker 1: That was a tough stretch. Go ahead, Nope, that's not it.
12:52
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy not only studied the law, which you know,
12:55
Speaker 1: but he also volunteered at a rape crisis center. So
12:59
Speaker 1: for him, that was porn. He got awful that this
13:03
Speaker 1: guy did the same thing. He's studying criminology, so he's
13:07
Speaker 1: studying how do I get away with this? But it's
13:10
Speaker 1: more than that for him. He wants to know how
13:12
Speaker 1: other criminals felt during the crime. And that's what I'm
13:17
Speaker 1: telling you. You can wrap this whole thing up with
13:19
Speaker 1: a bow. It's obvious to me exactly why he would
13:23
Speaker 1: want to study what he did and why he would
13:25
Speaker 1: want to talk to criminals and non victim to Karen
13:28
Speaker 1: start and joining me in renowned New York psychologists joining
13:31
Speaker 1: us out of Manhattan. You can find her at Karen
13:33
Speaker 1: Stark dot com. And I always tell you because it's
13:35
Speaker 1: kind of hard to find unless she wants to do
13:37
Speaker 1: a name change. It's Karen with a C C R
13:41
Speaker 1: Y M. Karen Stark. What is this? Because you know
13:44
Speaker 1: how I always say this, and you would laugh down
13:48
Speaker 1: your intellectual snoop when we were at Court TV together,
13:51
Speaker 1: when I would say, hey, if the devil shows up
13:53
Speaker 1: at the front door, don't invite him in for dinner.
13:57
Speaker 1: He might just unpack his bag and stay overnight. Then
14:00
Speaker 1: you won't be able to get rid of them. In
14:01
Speaker 1: other words, when you flirt with something you know is wrong,
14:06
Speaker 1: I don't know, like pornography or heroin, something you know
14:12
Speaker 1: is going to destroy you or could destroy you, why
14:15
Speaker 1: flirt with it? Why entertain it? Why invited to stick around?
14:19
Speaker 1: But that's exactly what he did. He did not only
14:23
Speaker 1: major in criminology, which thank god people do major in criminology,
14:27
Speaker 1: but he became intimately obsessed with it and facilitated his
14:32
Speaker 1: own sick interest in it. Karen, I read the whole thing, Nancy,
14:37
Speaker 1: and it was really chilling because his questions were that specific.
14:43
Speaker 1: And I really do agree with Sarah that he knew
14:47
Speaker 1: exactly why he wanted to do it. This guy was
14:50
Speaker 1: getting very excited. He got off on reading all of this.
14:55
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it. He wanted to know what
14:58
Speaker 1: extempt because he was putting himself in that place. I
15:02
Speaker 1: also feel like in some ways he was reversing and
15:05
Speaker 1: getting ready to kill if he hadn't already killed and
15:09
Speaker 1: wanted to relive it. So, I mean, this is just
15:13
Speaker 1: so incredible that somebody who studied it to that degree.
15:18
Speaker 1: It's even more than bunding because he was living his
15:22
Speaker 1: life in those questions. That was his life. He wanted
15:26
Speaker 1: to know what went on with these people because he
15:29
Speaker 1: was one of them. I completely apologize for saying you
15:32
Speaker 1: look down your intellectual snoot at me. That was not
15:35
Speaker 1: a very nice way of describing and then you and
15:39
Speaker 1: then you just explained it so beautifully and actually with poignance.
15:46
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, let's go with a harsh reality. Just
15:51
Speaker 1: got Morgan joining me. I really, Josh, who got so
15:54
Speaker 1: many awesome guests. I haven't even gotten to ccmore A
15:57
Speaker 1: brilliant Now, that's what brilliance really is. Chris McDonough, Dave
16:02
Speaker 1: mack joining me. But I'm going as fast as a
16:04
Speaker 1: ken Guys. Joseph Scott Morgan is not only professor forensics
16:08
Speaker 1: at Jackson State University, he's the author of Blood Beneath
16:11
Speaker 1: My Feet, and now he's a star of another hit series,
16:15
Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joe Scott Morgan. I mean you can
16:17
Speaker 1: catch him on Doctor Field coming up soon, I guess
16:20
Speaker 1: on Idaho. It's what we're talking going to be talking about.
16:23
Speaker 1: Joe Scott. Okay, this guy obviously I hate to even
16:29
Speaker 1: say his name, Coburger, because that's going to be a
16:34
Speaker 1: name we're gonna remember forever, Joe Scott, just like we
16:36
Speaker 1: talk about Bundy and BTK and all the others, Jack
16:41
Speaker 1: the Ripper, it just goes on and on Israel Keys.
16:44
Speaker 1: It's like conjuring up a horrible, horrible vision. And no
16:50
Speaker 1: for everybody online that goes, wow, you're convicting convicting him
16:53
Speaker 1: before the trunk, No, knot. I'm talking about the evidence
16:56
Speaker 1: that's already out there. We may be very surprised and
17:00
Speaker 1: find out the DNA doesn't match. We don't know what's
17:02
Speaker 1: going to happen. This is what we know right now.
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Speaker 1: A Fox Nation exclusive and international pop star stripped of
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Speaker 1: human rights? How does that happen? Easier than you think.
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Speaker 1: Join us for a deep dive into Britney Spears's conservatorship Trapped,
17:24
Speaker 1: streaming now on Fox Nation Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,
17:37
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan. I believe Coburger romanticized crime. He was
17:44
Speaker 1: obsessed with criminals and what they do. And I say
17:48
Speaker 1: this because I've had to force gerars to look at
17:54
Speaker 1: the crime. And I remember one of the last he
18:01
Speaker 1: was a serial killer, but we had him on one
18:03
Speaker 1: crime for sure, so I tried him for that. And
18:08
Speaker 1: there was an autopsy photo that had to be shown
18:10
Speaker 1: to the jury so you could see the subdural in
18:13
Speaker 1: other words, beneath the scalp bruising about how hard this
18:17
Speaker 1: victim was hit in the head. And I'll stand the
18:19
Speaker 1: court was a slide show. Joe Scott and I walked
18:23
Speaker 1: in the dark up to the screen and Night was
18:25
Speaker 1: touching it, showing the jury various points to look at,
18:30
Speaker 1: and I thought, man, I'm gonna have to stop doing this,
18:34
Speaker 1: because it was just so upsetting when you see the
18:38
Speaker 1: reality of murder as opposed to their romantization of murder
18:47
Speaker 1: like you see on TV or and Oh how I
18:51
Speaker 1: Love Angela Lansbury, but murder she wrote, or something like that,
18:56
Speaker 1: even even CSI, even all the brittin box murder mysteries,
19:02
Speaker 1: you don't really see the reality of what murder is
19:07
Speaker 1: much less for vibrant, beautiful, full of life hopes dreams
19:16
Speaker 1: Idaho University students. But for a moment, Joe Scott, take
19:21
Speaker 1: me there to the darkness of what this murder scene
19:25
Speaker 1: really was at the hands according to police, of Brian
19:31
Speaker 1: Christopher to murder in those two areas, those two bedrooms,
19:37
Speaker 1: this environment would have been a bloodbath. Just to understand
19:43
Speaker 1: that anytime an edged weapon is used and it is
19:47
Speaker 1: introduced into an individual's body over and over and over again,
19:54
Speaker 1: that area that they're laying it and I would assume
19:59
Speaker 1: that at this point I don't know, but in these
20:02
Speaker 1: two beds, it would have just been super saturated in blood.
20:06
Speaker 1: And I you know, when you brought up that visual
20:10
Speaker 1: of going in the courtroom and touching those those images
20:13
Speaker 1: on the display. Defense attorneys many times will say, well,
20:17
Speaker 1: this is prejudicial counter I count. I counter that with this.
20:23
Speaker 1: This is the last time that these victims will have
20:27
Speaker 1: an opportunity to speak, and they speak through these images.
20:31
Speaker 1: And let me tell you something, when those images are
20:35
Speaker 1: flashed at a trial in the future, that will be
20:39
Speaker 1: them speaking this is what was done to me, and
20:42
Speaker 1: whoever did this would have been saturated in blood as well,
20:47
Speaker 1: and there will be a super silent moment in the courtroom,
20:51
Speaker 1: you've probably experienced that, and that will happen, and that
20:55
Speaker 1: will be the dead speaking at that point in time.
20:57
Speaker 1: And another thing, I think practically everybody on this panel
21:02
Speaker 1: except maybe Karen, has been on a murder scene, an
21:07
Speaker 1: actual murder scene, and it's nothing like what you see
21:12
Speaker 1: on TV or movies. It is. I mean, I've seen
21:15
Speaker 1: veteran police turn around and I could hear them throw
21:19
Speaker 1: up outside. That's not just in the movies. That's real.
21:24
Speaker 1: I mean, if you ever smell something that made you sick,
21:26
Speaker 1: just a smells just like, oh the blood, as Joe
21:33
Speaker 1: Scott just says, as of consistency, if when you make jello,
21:39
Speaker 1: when you're first making it and you're boiling it, it's
21:43
Speaker 1: thinner and then it turns gelatinous. Depending on what time
21:47
Speaker 1: you get to the murder scene, it could be like
21:50
Speaker 1: dry gelatinous jello, hair pulled out of the victim's head,
21:57
Speaker 1: caught in the blood. Just you know, I really don't
22:02
Speaker 1: want to describe it. If I had to try this case,
22:04
Speaker 1: I would describe it. But I think that's you just
22:07
Speaker 1: got no, it's me Dale, jump in, Dale. I'm just
22:10
Speaker 1: to smell because after you're through cleaning up a scene
22:14
Speaker 1: like that, analyzing it. Then you got to get in
22:17
Speaker 1: a car and ride around as a partner to your
22:21
Speaker 1: other investigator and not be sick for an entire day.
22:25
Speaker 1: And no matter how many times I would, I'd leave
22:29
Speaker 1: a crime scene and I'd have to go back to
22:31
Speaker 1: the courthouse and I'd go in a lady's bathroom, and
22:37
Speaker 1: I remember they had at the time that you hit
22:39
Speaker 1: the dispenser and a powder comes out, not liquid soap,
22:45
Speaker 1: and I would scrub and scrub it. I'd try to
22:47
Speaker 1: roll up my sleeves on my dress. At that time,
22:50
Speaker 1: women did not wear, believe it or not, pants to court,
22:54
Speaker 1: and I would just wash because I'd feel like I
22:57
Speaker 1: had some type of blood spatter or something on me.
23:01
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah is joining us. Of course, cecmore no offense
23:05
Speaker 1: to the other guest, but I'm saying the best for
23:07
Speaker 1: last today Ceci hold On. Ceci is joining me chief
23:10
Speaker 1: genetic genealogist, appearing by Nano Lambs, and she's brilliant. Chris
23:15
Speaker 1: mcdonnah is joining me, Director Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective.
23:20
Speaker 1: He's worked over three hundred homicides and I found him
23:24
Speaker 1: in the interview room on a YouTube channel. Chris, you
23:28
Speaker 1: have seen in the home. You heard what Joe Scott said.
23:33
Speaker 1: I want to hear your thoughts about how this guy
23:36
Speaker 1: was so obsessed with violent crime. I mean, I'm obsessed
23:42
Speaker 1: with fighting crime. I'm not obsessed with the thinking a
23:48
Speaker 1: violent offender, what he was thinking when he raped a
23:51
Speaker 1: child or he murdered somebody with a knife. I don't
23:54
Speaker 1: want to go in that head. I don't want that
23:56
Speaker 1: stuck in my head. That's why the state doesn't have
23:59
Speaker 1: to prove motive. But I want to hear you have
24:02
Speaker 1: viewed the home in the area. I want to hear
24:06
Speaker 1: your thoughts as we try to reconcile what we know
24:09
Speaker 1: to be true of the crime scene and his obvious
24:13
Speaker 1: rapture with crime. Yeah, Nancy, I mean, now that we're
24:18
Speaker 1: learning a lot more about this individual, I think one
24:24
Speaker 1: of the thoughts that I have, and that comes to
24:26
Speaker 1: me and I think everybody on this panel would agree,
24:31
Speaker 1: is the probably the deafening silence after the homicides, knowing
24:39
Speaker 1: also though there were two other victims spared. But if
24:44
Speaker 1: we correlate, remember always every behavior has a purpose, and
24:51
Speaker 1: for this guy, that behavior started early with those questions
24:58
Speaker 1: in his educ occasional studies, and I think the crime
25:04
Speaker 1: scene would reflect those questions because what he was trying
25:11
Speaker 1: to do, it appears, is, you know, narrow the scope
25:16
Speaker 1: of error to his advantage. And so what I come
25:23
Speaker 1: away with knowing the neighborhood is at this point, I
25:27
Speaker 1: think there is a lot of full court press technical
25:34
Speaker 1: pressure being applied in the investigation. I think the investigation
25:38
Speaker 1: is compressing. What does that mean, the investigations compressing? Yeah, Nancy, So,
25:43
Speaker 1: I think what happens is, as we all have experienced,
25:47
Speaker 1: is in something this high profile, the investigators compressed the
25:51
Speaker 1: investigation in meaning they tighten it up a little bit
25:57
Speaker 1: quicker because now you have defense involved, you have defense investigators,
26:01
Speaker 1: and they're going to go back and circle back through
26:04
Speaker 1: your witnesses, your evidence, your scene. And so what they're
26:08
Speaker 1: going to do as an investigative team is keep moving
26:12
Speaker 1: forward on the technical data side, quickly the car, the phones,
26:19
Speaker 1: any type of analysis that's going to put him in
26:23
Speaker 1: what we would call contact points with these victims thore victimology. Okay,
26:28
Speaker 1: can I follow up on what you just said. I
26:30
Speaker 1: really believe that they will and I'm referring to police
26:35
Speaker 1: law enforcement to be the FBI. I don't know which
26:38
Speaker 1: law enforcement armor is going to be. I really believe
26:41
Speaker 1: that they are going to place the defendant Coburger around
26:47
Speaker 1: in and around the scene on multiple occasions, showing that
26:52
Speaker 1: he Coburger had stalked the victims, had spied on the victims,
26:58
Speaker 1: had maybe looked in their win specifically for you, Chris mcgona,
27:04
Speaker 1: which again I just can't say how much I appreciated
27:07
Speaker 1: your drive through you did on the interview room because
27:10
Speaker 1: it showed me how and I want the listeners to
27:15
Speaker 1: know they can see it too. How you go into
27:19
Speaker 1: the area of King Road where the victims live, You
27:22
Speaker 1: go up an incline and around and there is a
27:26
Speaker 1: parking lot. There's no way out except the way you
27:29
Speaker 1: came in. And that parking lot looks like it borders
27:34
Speaker 1: on trees, but it's not very dense at all. You
27:38
Speaker 1: can see from that parking lot straight in to the
27:42
Speaker 1: victim's house. How many times do you think k Burger
27:46
Speaker 1: sat up there and got down on those trees and
27:49
Speaker 1: looked at them. That's a chilling thought, it thought, because
27:54
Speaker 1: when the girls looked out, Chris mcgunna, they just saw trees.
27:58
Speaker 1: Because you remember they're in the light in the home.
28:00
Speaker 1: They're looking out of the dark, and they think they
28:04
Speaker 1: see trees. Have no idea that something like Coburger could
28:07
Speaker 1: be right there watching them change clothes, watching the girlfriend
28:12
Speaker 1: and her boyfriend make out, watching God only knows what
28:16
Speaker 1: he could have been watching. A warning to all young
28:20
Speaker 1: women in colleges, Nancy, can I jump in when you
28:24
Speaker 1: leave King Road? One of his escape routes will take
28:27
Speaker 1: you right to that farm road and west Pullman. Wait, wait,
28:31
Speaker 1: oh wait, okay, yes, right kay. When he got the
28:34
Speaker 1: ticket for no seatbelt right, what struck me about that?
28:38
Speaker 1: It was after eleven o'clock at night where he got that.
28:41
Speaker 1: Because if you start your day, you know, you put
28:44
Speaker 1: your seat but only you start the car and you go.
28:46
Speaker 1: But as you go in and out of your car,
28:48
Speaker 1: running like quick errands, you might just jump back in
28:51
Speaker 1: and don't put your seatbelt back on. That's what I
28:53
Speaker 1: believe happened here. I believe there's a good chance he
28:57
Speaker 1: was a peeping tom at that moment, or up in
28:59
Speaker 1: his urge area, you know, staring at them, skulk in them.
29:03
Speaker 1: And then when he got back in the car, he
29:05
Speaker 1: just did not re engage his seat belt, and that's
29:07
Speaker 1: why he was stopped right there at that first intersection. Guys,
29:10
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our cut
29:12
Speaker 1: two two to our friends at ABC, recent students of
29:17
Speaker 1: his at Washington State University speaking out one thing. His
29:21
Speaker 1: appearance changed around the time the murders took place. He
29:25
Speaker 1: looked a little bit more disheveled. He had like some
29:27
Speaker 1: stubble coming on, and his hair was a little, you know,
29:29
Speaker 1: messed up or whatever. I remember seeing him and thinking like,
29:32
Speaker 1: oh man, you know, finals must be really getting back.
29:34
Speaker 1: Twenty eight year old Coburger remained a teacher's assistant working
29:38
Speaker 1: towards his criminology PhD until the end of the semester
29:55
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace, recent students of his at
30:02
Speaker 1: Washington State University speaking out one thing his appearance changed
30:07
Speaker 1: around the time the murders took place. He looked a
30:10
Speaker 1: little bit more disheveled. He had like some stubble coming on,
30:13
Speaker 1: and his hair was a little, you know, messed up
30:15
Speaker 1: or whatever. I remember seeing him and thinking like, oh man,
30:18
Speaker 1: you know, finals must be really getting bad. Twenty eight
30:20
Speaker 1: year old Coburger remained a teacher's assistant working towards his
30:23
Speaker 1: Criminology PhD until the end of the semester, looking disheveled
30:28
Speaker 1: and quote messed up following the murders. Now, other accounts
30:32
Speaker 1: are that he would speak in a very obtuse way
30:38
Speaker 1: in court, I mean, excuse me in class, but then
30:41
Speaker 1: whenever the issue of the Idaho slayings came up, he
30:46
Speaker 1: would quote dead pain quiet. We also know that he
30:50
Speaker 1: had been a very strict greater as a TA teaching assistant.
30:54
Speaker 1: In fact, one of the professors had made a joke, Hey,
30:56
Speaker 1: go easy on him, Brian in his grating. But after
31:02
Speaker 1: the murders he was very laxa days ago and gave
31:06
Speaker 1: a lot of like a B plus B plus he's
31:10
Speaker 1: not really reading the papers in depth anymore. Disheveled, deadpan.
31:17
Speaker 1: I mean, have you asked anybody about the Idaho murders
31:21
Speaker 1: and they don't have an opinion or a question? A
31:24
Speaker 1: lot of them are off the wall, A lot of
31:27
Speaker 1: them make a lot of sense. A lot of the
31:30
Speaker 1: ones that are off the wall actually raise really good questions.
31:35
Speaker 1: I learned a lot by looking at our social media
31:38
Speaker 1: questions theories. Who is that Dale? Yeah, spending off on
31:43
Speaker 1: what magic Cheryl said you know, another reason to not
31:47
Speaker 1: have your seatbelt on is because it's more important to
31:50
Speaker 1: pull your pants up. Okay, yeah, only you and Jackie
31:53
Speaker 1: had thought of that. I'm not going to question why,
31:56
Speaker 1: but enter cc more. Oh, oh, one more thing I
32:01
Speaker 1: want you to know tip cut two nineteen. Our friends
32:05
Speaker 1: at Fox and Friends listen to this. It sounds to
32:09
Speaker 1: me that the defense lawyers are doing a good job.
32:12
Speaker 1: Remember they've already stopped the Idaho police from carrying down
32:17
Speaker 1: the crime scene so that they can have their own
32:20
Speaker 1: experts come in and see if they agree or disagree
32:24
Speaker 1: with the determinations of the FBI and the police at
32:29
Speaker 1: the crime scene. That was our friend Michael Biden speaking
32:32
Speaker 1: to our very dear friends over at Fox and Friends
32:35
Speaker 1: in the morning, and he's right. The defense attorneys have
32:39
Speaker 1: asked to freeze the house so they can send their experts,
32:41
Speaker 1: and I think their experts have already gone in. And
32:44
Speaker 1: you know what, I would have defense attorneys jump up
32:46
Speaker 1: and go, we want to see the scene. Okay, good,
32:49
Speaker 1: I want you to see the scene. Go for it,
32:52
Speaker 1: because I really believe that we're right and the scene
32:56
Speaker 1: of the crime is only going to confirm what the
33:00
Speaker 1: police think. But now as we go to cc more,
33:05
Speaker 1: and remember everybody jump in with questions for CC including you,
33:08
Speaker 1: Dave Matt, Crime online dot Com investigator for with us.
33:12
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut two to one our
33:14
Speaker 1: friend Kano Whitworth at ABC New details emerging about how
33:19
Speaker 1: law enforcement tracked Coburger down, sources telling ABC News they
33:23
Speaker 1: use public genealogy databases like those used to catch the
33:27
Speaker 1: Golden State killer. You have DNA from a crime, but
33:31
Speaker 1: you don't have a suspect. She's not in a database,
33:33
Speaker 1: so you use public databases of genealogy looking for relatives.
33:39
Speaker 1: Eventually you get it down to the point where you
33:43
Speaker 1: can match the DNA potentially to your subspect Okay, ccmore
33:49
Speaker 1: is with me again, Chief Genetic Genealogists piabon Nano Labs CC.
33:54
Speaker 1: A lot of people have been throwing around twenty three
33:56
Speaker 1: and ME. I don't know if that is the DNA
33:59
Speaker 1: database they use, but I do know that upon study
34:03
Speaker 1: twenty three and ME is a private lab, they do
34:07
Speaker 1: not release that to COMPS. I don't think they can
34:09
Speaker 1: even subpoena that. But there is a catch to that
34:15
Speaker 1: with twenty three and me and I researched because hearing
34:18
Speaker 1: everyone talking about that that was the database used, and
34:20
Speaker 1: I don't know that that's correct, but there is a
34:23
Speaker 1: way with twenty three and me you can look at
34:25
Speaker 1: your ancestry, but also you can try to connect with
34:29
Speaker 1: people online. You can or you don't have to. So
34:34
Speaker 1: I'm guessing if it was twenty three and me, and
34:37
Speaker 1: that's a big if those relatives of co Burgers had
34:41
Speaker 1: put their DNA out there to see if there were
34:43
Speaker 1: any long lost relatives. I'm just trying to figure out
34:47
Speaker 1: how this happened. I think it's highly unlikely that twenty
34:50
Speaker 1: three in me was used, and that's because they bar
34:54
Speaker 1: law enforcement, and they have publicly stated that they will
34:59
Speaker 1: protect the integrity of their database and they will fight
35:02
Speaker 1: any efforts by law enforcement to get into it. And
35:06
Speaker 1: they are worth a billion dollars that company. They have
35:09
Speaker 1: deep pockets, they have a very robust legal team, and
35:14
Speaker 1: so it would have taken a fair amount of time
35:17
Speaker 1: for law enforcement to try to convince them to let
35:20
Speaker 1: them use their database. And we know this happened very quickly,
35:24
Speaker 1: so it's very likely that they stuck to the two
35:26
Speaker 1: databases that do allow law enforcement JED match and Family
35:31
Speaker 1: Tree DNA yeah, hold on, hold on, remember say seymore,
35:34
Speaker 1: we're just mere mortals. Okay, So sometimes you've got to
35:37
Speaker 1: slow it down for us. We're drinking from the firehouser here.
35:41
Speaker 1: So you're saying that there are public DNA database. It's
35:45
Speaker 1: like jed match, which I believe you've told me the
35:47
Speaker 1: past is geed match, correct. Okay. And there's another one
35:50
Speaker 1: you mentioned. What's the other one? Family Tree DNA is
35:53
Speaker 1: actually a private database. They were the first company to
35:56
Speaker 1: offer genetic genealogy to the public, to let you send
35:59
Speaker 1: in your DNA and get those results back. But they're
36:02
Speaker 1: the smallest of these companies, and they have family Tree,
36:07
Speaker 1: gotcha right, They don't have you know, they're not public.
36:10
Speaker 1: They don't have investors like we see with those other
36:12
Speaker 1: big companies, so they can make a decision like they
36:15
Speaker 1: have here to support law enforcement. And to Loud, I'm
36:18
Speaker 1: glad you're telling me this CC because nobody would use
36:23
Speaker 1: a private lab again if they thought the cots could
36:26
Speaker 1: just like get your DNA all right. My son, my
36:30
Speaker 1: daughter is dying to get ancestry and did and my
36:35
Speaker 1: son said, no, Mom, I don't want to be I
36:38
Speaker 1: don't want one of my relatives to be busted a
36:41
Speaker 1: robbery or something. I'm like, what put that in your head?
36:44
Speaker 1: And he said you I'm okay, well guilty. But they
36:48
Speaker 1: did do it, and my husband got the horrible discovery
36:52
Speaker 1: that he's not from Scottish Royalty. Okay, so he's having
36:56
Speaker 1: to deal with the fact that he's Irish, just like me.
36:58
Speaker 1: A mut were MutS. Okay, go ahead, tell me what
37:01
Speaker 1: happened here? How did it work? Well? First of all,
37:03
Speaker 1: I want to say, people are talking about how smart
37:06
Speaker 1: Brian is, and I have to say, I just don't
37:09
Speaker 1: see how any student of forensic science or criminology did
37:13
Speaker 1: not realize that it's virtually impossible to commit that type
37:17
Speaker 1: of violent intimate crime without leaving their DNA behind. He
37:21
Speaker 1: can't be that smart. And he must have heard of
37:23
Speaker 1: investigative genetic genealogy, so he knew he wasn't in the
37:26
Speaker 1: law enforcement databases, but he certainly should have known we
37:30
Speaker 1: would track him from his relatives. Now, as I was saying,
37:34
Speaker 1: we're restricted to the two smallest databases, so we can
37:37
Speaker 1: only compare unknown DNA like his in this case against
37:41
Speaker 1: about two million profiles. But we only need distant cousins.
37:45
Speaker 1: Everybody has lots of distant cousins, so they were likely
37:49
Speaker 1: working with second, third, fourth, fifth cousins and beyond. Unless
37:53
Speaker 1: they got really lucky and there was a close relative
37:55
Speaker 1: in one of those two small databases. What they would
37:59
Speaker 1: have had to do it was build trees for probably
38:02
Speaker 1: days on end. People have this idea that one match
38:05
Speaker 1: solves these cases, and that's not how it works. We're
38:08
Speaker 1: typically working with a dozen matches, two dozen matches. You're
38:12
Speaker 1: building trees day and night, and particularly in a case
38:15
Speaker 1: like this where there was a real stretch. C see Moore.
38:18
Speaker 1: A while back. I was at Crime Con and Paul
38:21
Speaker 1: Holes was there, one of the mini detectives to help
38:24
Speaker 1: crack Golden State Killer. You know he's phenomenal, but I
38:28
Speaker 1: remember him putting up. He drew it. He drew it
38:32
Speaker 1: before him, Cheryl. I think you were there with us.
38:34
Speaker 1: He drew the family tree that led to the Golden
38:37
Speaker 1: State Killer. It went back like ten or twelve. It
38:41
Speaker 1: was a whole poster. They were like right, a few
38:45
Speaker 1: people at the top, then it went out to like
38:46
Speaker 1: eighteen or twenty. Then eighteen or twenty went down, down, down, down.
38:51
Speaker 1: I can't even describe how how intricate that family tree
38:55
Speaker 1: was and how far back they had to go. When
38:58
Speaker 1: you're saying building a family tree, I mean this goes
39:00
Speaker 1: all the way back to the Revolutionary War in some days,
39:03
Speaker 1: I mean, you have to go way back to find
39:06
Speaker 1: you know what, You can say it better than me.
39:08
Speaker 1: I know that. That's why I put experts on the stand.
39:11
Speaker 1: You explain it well. I can only imagine the pressure
39:13
Speaker 1: that the team felt that was building those trees. I'm
39:17
Speaker 1: sure they were doing it day and night, knowing that
39:19
Speaker 1: this perpetrator could strike again and there could be more victims.
39:23
Speaker 1: So when you're building, it's almost like you're in this
39:26
Speaker 1: dark forest of trees and you're just looking for that
39:28
Speaker 1: little light at the end, trying to get out of
39:31
Speaker 1: that and see where you can make this all come together.
39:34
Speaker 1: We're looking for that one person who's related to all
39:38
Speaker 1: of those top matches. Some are going to connect to
39:40
Speaker 1: mom's side, some to Dad's side. Fortunately, and if they
39:44
Speaker 1: were able to connect to both sides of his family,
39:48
Speaker 1: it would have zarrowed in only on him, since he's
39:51
Speaker 1: the only son in that family. Now, we don't know
39:54
Speaker 1: what they had to work with. It's possible they didn't
39:56
Speaker 1: have a lot of great matches since his family is
40:00
Speaker 1: a lot of immigrant ancestors in the last few generations.
40:04
Speaker 1: But if they did, it would have meant they were
40:07
Speaker 1: just looking at this one person. Now, if they could
40:10
Speaker 1: only get stay to great grandparents, maybe they had to
40:13
Speaker 1: look at twelve great grandsons, twenty great grandson. But then
40:16
Speaker 1: don't they take their knowledge and they try to find
40:20
Speaker 1: who with that DNA is in that area? And I'm
40:23
Speaker 1: getting an urgent note from our managing editor at Crime
40:28
Speaker 1: Online Wilson, who is listening in Oh wait, no, this
40:32
Speaker 1: is from Jackie. Jackie says some reports say Cox pulled
40:36
Speaker 1: his DNA from a discarded food packaging during observation. Now
40:40
Speaker 1: I don't know why she's talking like that, but I
40:42
Speaker 1: think what she's trying to say in regular people talk.
40:44
Speaker 1: As they staked him out for four days at least
40:46
Speaker 1: that we know of, and they waited for him to
40:49
Speaker 1: throw away a McDonald's cup or an Army's rapper, or
40:52
Speaker 1: go through his trash very very secretively and get a
40:58
Speaker 1: toilet tissue or a kleenex where he blew his nose
41:02
Speaker 1: to get the DNA. That's not unheard obviously, So you
41:04
Speaker 1: can get DNA off a pizza cross and it has
41:07
Speaker 1: been done. You know, they do this exact thing of
41:10
Speaker 1: my cases. It's really typical that once we point them
41:13
Speaker 1: in the right direction, they're staking someone out. They're waiting
41:16
Speaker 1: for them to drop that piece of trash with DNA
41:19
Speaker 1: on it or pulling their trash from their curb. So
41:22
Speaker 1: it wouldn't surprise me at all if that's what happened here.
41:25
Speaker 1: Dave Matt, you've been unusually quiet. Jump indo. I'll make
41:29
Speaker 1: it quick, Nancy. In Florida, every criminal has their DNA,
41:33
Speaker 1: quality criminal has their DNA taken. There's a national federal
41:38
Speaker 1: database now, much like fingerprints, and that makes it a
41:41
Speaker 1: lot easier to go back if one of those guys
41:44
Speaker 1: I mean codis Yeah, if one of those family members
41:47
Speaker 1: was arrested or they had their DNA taken because they're
41:50
Speaker 1: working in the medical field or something like that, it's
41:53
Speaker 1: very easy to make the connection or easier, right, was
41:57
Speaker 1: that you Joe Scott jumping in Nancy? This Christ Chris,
42:00
Speaker 1: go ahead, Chris. So A couple of thoughts that I
42:02
Speaker 1: have is and I'm curious about the two traffic stops,
42:08
Speaker 1: is you know they're holding back the first body camera video. Yeah,
42:12
Speaker 1: right now. So the question is what's on that? But
42:15
Speaker 1: remember the two water bottles in the center console. Yeah,
42:19
Speaker 1: I wonder when we find out where that At what
42:23
Speaker 1: point do they get on this guy in the beginning?
42:26
Speaker 1: And are these two traffic stops, you know, the old
42:29
Speaker 1: surveillance team calling up, Well, you know what, Chris mcdonnaugh,
42:34
Speaker 1: that's a whisper stop. Yeah, exactly got it. I had
42:37
Speaker 1: that question posed on Twitter. They said, do you think
42:40
Speaker 1: they got DNA from the defendant on one of those
42:45
Speaker 1: traffic stops? And I wrote back in for no, but
42:47
Speaker 1: that's a very good question. But it's my understanding that
42:50
Speaker 1: the cops didn't know to be was that December fifteen,
42:54
Speaker 1: they didn't know to be looking for coburger. Sheryl McCollums
42:56
Speaker 1: jump in. I believe that. Thank you're at Nancy. But again,
42:59
Speaker 1: what I'm hearing is how fast this happened. Once they
43:03
Speaker 1: identified the car, they already had unknown mail DNA at
43:07
Speaker 1: the house. Once they got his identity, they wanted his
43:12
Speaker 1: DNA to cross check to see if it was the
43:14
Speaker 1: same DNA that came out of the crime scene. This happened,
43:18
Speaker 1: in my estimation, very very quickly, and I think CC
43:23
Speaker 1: could probably talk about that, but I think there's very
43:26
Speaker 1: few places that could do it that fast. My guest
43:29
Speaker 1: was off from but you know, it could be anybody,
43:32
Speaker 1: but it was fast as lightning to me and Nancy.
43:35
Speaker 1: I think another indication that they may have had a
43:38
Speaker 1: team sitting on him is the fact that how many
43:41
Speaker 1: times was mentioned that they were looking for this specific car.
43:45
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just over and over it. We couldn't
43:48
Speaker 1: get away from it. And here this car sat, It
43:51
Speaker 1: sat for days and days and days. Apparently mommy and
43:54
Speaker 1: Daddy didn't notice because he was partnered right up there
43:57
Speaker 1: to Elpie. It's wondering. I'm just wondering if if they
44:01
Speaker 1: had calls on that particular car and the police were like, no,
44:05
Speaker 1: we're not going to we're going to back off of
44:07
Speaker 1: this and just watch what this guy is doing because
44:10
Speaker 1: it's right there. I mean, it's within the thin spot,
44:12
Speaker 1: you know, to put it in a shot. That's a
44:14
Speaker 1: really good point, CC. If if what our theory working,
44:18
Speaker 1: theory is right now, and we may be going down
44:20
Speaker 1: a rabbit hole, but that's how you end up getting
44:23
Speaker 1: the correct answer. You test a lot of different theories
44:25
Speaker 1: and they work or they don't work. Let's just hypothesize
44:29
Speaker 1: CC that they did get that water by allow of
44:32
Speaker 1: the car. You know, just pretend just a moment, how
44:35
Speaker 1: quickly could they make a DNA match to the known
44:39
Speaker 1: DNA at the crime scene. Well, at that point, they
44:41
Speaker 1: would have already used investigative genetic genealogy to give them
44:45
Speaker 1: that lead. They would have rushed that to their crime
44:48
Speaker 1: lab and been able to do that one to one
44:50
Speaker 1: comparison to the codus profile, got it very quickly. In fact,
44:54
Speaker 1: I've worked with Idaho State Crime Lab and they stayed
44:58
Speaker 1: overnight on the Angie Dog case to quickly turn those
45:02
Speaker 1: results around. So I'm sure they would have done the
45:04
Speaker 1: same thing here and it could have happened very quickly.
45:07
Speaker 1: You know. You see Seymore, Chris mcdonna, Cheryl McCollum, Joe
45:12
Speaker 1: Scott Morgen, and Karen start Dale, Carson Dave Mack. Each
45:15
Speaker 1: one of you have this wealth of experience, Like I
45:20
Speaker 1: didn't know you'd work with Idaho before, but you have. Yeah,
45:23
Speaker 1: they're so this is so involved, but when the prosecutor
45:27
Speaker 1: puts it to the jury, it's got to be so streamlined.
45:32
Speaker 1: Not that they're simple idiots on the jury but you
45:37
Speaker 1: have to be able to communicate a wealth of information
45:42
Speaker 1: to make it clear what happened, and we're going to
45:45
Speaker 1: see that unfold. Right now, it's being kept secret as
45:49
Speaker 1: to the transport of Brian Christopher Coburg for security reasons,
45:55
Speaker 1: but within ten days he will be in Idaho and
46:00
Speaker 1: we will see that probable cause affidavit. We wait as
46:06
Speaker 1: justice unfalse. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,