Latest / Foul Territory / Ken Rosenthal weighs in on MVP fatigue, Pitching prospect debuts

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Ken Rosenthal weighs in on MVP fatigue, Pitching prospect debuts · Foul Territory

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  Speaker 1: The Inside Scoop is Hard Today by MLB Rivals. More
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  Speaker 1: on that later. Let's go right now to FT senior
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  Speaker 1: insider Ken Rosenthal and continue this discussion. Awesome night for
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  Speaker 1: Kyle Schwarber, Ken, but let's dive into the article and
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  Speaker 1: what you wrote about related to Kyle Schwarber and really
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  Speaker 1: Kyle Riley versus Aaron Judge and sho Hey Otani.
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  Speaker 2: The point of what I wrote is simply this that
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  Speaker 2: whoever is the best should win. Now, it seems like
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  Speaker 2: a simple concept, but human nature being what it is,
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  Speaker 2: my suspicion is at least some writers will be looking
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  Speaker 2: for a new flavor of the month and that should
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  Speaker 2: not be in any way a factor in this voting. Now,
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  Speaker 2: I know, Shohey Otani has won three of the last
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  Speaker 2: four MBPS, three of the last four years, Judge two
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  Speaker 2: of the last three. The year Otani didn't win in
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  Speaker 2: this four year span was the year Judge hit sixty
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  Speaker 2: two home runs and edged him. Or actually, wasn't that
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  Speaker 2: even close? So yeah, I'm sure everybody would like, in
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  Speaker 2: a perfect world, let's see some new faces, but that
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  Speaker 2: doesn't dictate what a voter should do. What dictates what
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  Speaker 2: a voter should do is the actual on field performance
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  Speaker 2: of all of the players involved. Now, if Raley and
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  Speaker 2: Schwarver are deserving, yes they're the MVPs. But if Judge
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  Speaker 2: and Otani are deserving, then they're the MVPs. I don't
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  Speaker 2: have any preference. I don't care one way or the other.
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  Speaker 2: All I want to see is that we do this right.
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  Speaker 2: Because I don't want and I should have included this
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  Speaker 2: in the column I forgot. I don't want us to
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  Speaker 2: look back in twenty years and have people say, what
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  Speaker 2: the hell are the writers thinking? We have done these
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  Speaker 2: kinds of things with other rewards that we've made mistakes.
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  Speaker 2: We're not perfect, obviously, and that's my fear that someone
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  Speaker 2: will get shafted here simply because I'm tired of voting
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  Speaker 2: for Aaron Judge. Not cool, not a way to go.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I agree with you one thousand percent. I
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  Speaker 3: think you're one hundred percent right. Whoever deserves to be
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  Speaker 3: the MVP deserves, no matter how many times they've gotten it. Now,
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  Speaker 3: my question to you, as a writer broadcaster guy's been
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  Speaker 3: around baseball a long time, what is a certain criteria
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  Speaker 3: or what do you just look for for an MVP
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  Speaker 3: like I went over some numbers just now about RBI's
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  Speaker 3: home runs average. Is certain things that maybe I would
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  Speaker 3: look for. I'm not necessarily a big guy on war.
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  Speaker 3: You know, people have different quirks about what they're looking for,
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  Speaker 3: Like is there certain criteria that you specifically this guy
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  Speaker 3: has to lead in this category or it's a.
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  Speaker 4: Problem for me.
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  Speaker 2: There actually are criteria for the MVP voting, But in
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  Speaker 2: the end, Todd, it comes down to subjectivity. The criteria
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  Speaker 2: is like strength of offense and defense, character, the kind
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  Speaker 2: of thing you can vote however the heck you want.
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  Speaker 2: And part of the criteria as well is you can
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  Speaker 2: win multiple times. All these kinds of vague things. What
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  Speaker 2: I look at generally are the leading offensive and defensive metrics.
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  Speaker 2: But in this case with cal Raally, I don't believe
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  Speaker 2: the defensive metrics necessarily apply because I don't believe they
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  Speaker 2: will capture his full value. Now, last year he won
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  Speaker 2: the Platinum Glove as the best defensive player in the
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  Speaker 2: American League, the single best. Some of his metrics this
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  Speaker 2: year aren't as good, but not all of them were
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  Speaker 2: brilliant last year. So he is that guy behind the plate.
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  Speaker 2: There's no question that he brings incredible value at the
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  Speaker 2: game's most important position, and I'm not going to go
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  Speaker 2: by his WAR rating because I don't trust the defensive
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  Speaker 2: metrics again to get it right with him. So while
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  Speaker 2: I might look at WAR in certain cases, it's tough
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  Speaker 2: when you're dealing with guys at different positions because there
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  Speaker 2: are different values assigned.
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  Speaker 3: Now.
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  Speaker 2: I know WAR kind of covers that to some degree,
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  Speaker 2: but for instance, Bobby Witt versus Aaron Judge last year,
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  Speaker 2: the shortstops more valuable. Now, Judge had this incredible offensive year,
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  Speaker 2: one of the greatest offensive years by a right handed
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  Speaker 2: hitter ever. Wits the MVP every other year, but he
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  Speaker 2: wasn't last year. So I kind of take a look
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  Speaker 2: at everything, and I don't particularly value one stat over another,
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  Speaker 2: but I kind of look at the whole stew and
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  Speaker 2: try to figure it out as best I can.
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  Speaker 5: Does a team need to make the playoffs? Is that hard?
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  Speaker 5: Is that hard to not cook that into Ken Rosenthal's
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  Speaker 5: war theory or Ken Rosenthal's MVP theory.
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  Speaker 2: Eric, It is my preference. I always prefer a guy
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  Speaker 2: to be playing for a postseason qualifier or contender, simply because,
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  Speaker 2: in my view, the pressure of the games that player
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  Speaker 2: is playing in September is different than the pressure that
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  Speaker 2: a player from a non contender is facing. And there
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  Speaker 2: are some people who disagree with that. Every major league
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  Speaker 2: game is important, every major league game has pressure, But
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  Speaker 2: to me, there is an elevated set of circumstances when
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  Speaker 2: you're competing for the postseason. So yes, that matters. Now
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  Speaker 2: in the cases of the four players we're discussing here, Schwarber, Judge,
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  Speaker 2: and Otani, they're all playing for contenders, so it's really
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  Speaker 2: not a decided fact siding factor one way or the other.
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  Speaker 2: And if for some reason the Mariners don't make the postseason,
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  Speaker 2: well maybe it's because caw Rawley struggled down the stretch.
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  Speaker 2: That certainly comes into play. But I expect all of
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  Speaker 2: these teams to indeed be appearing in October.
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  Speaker 5: Can you rank And I know it's tough because you
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  Speaker 5: have to like think about all of the other four
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  Speaker 5: home run games that you've seen, but Schwarber's for home
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  Speaker 5: run game last night? Can you rank it as far
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  Speaker 5: as like how impressive it is? Because they're all impressive.
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  Speaker 5: It's only been twenty one in major League history. But
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  Speaker 5: had he hit the fifth one against Vdal Bruhan, how
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  Speaker 5: much visceral hate there would have been. I would have
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  Speaker 5: been super excited, But I was halfway through my drive
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  Speaker 5: to Boston and I'm thinking, wait a minute, he had
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  Speaker 5: If he had hit that home run, there'd been so
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  Speaker 5: many haters who would have been like, no, wipe it
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  Speaker 5: out the books. Position player. You know, this guy from
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  Speaker 5: the eighties and nineties would have tweeted, it doesn't count,
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  Speaker 5: but can you can you kind of hit on that
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  Speaker 5: a little bit?
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  Speaker 2: Well, as we saw, it's not so easy to even
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  Speaker 2: hit a home run off with a Bruhan. So yes,
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  Speaker 2: you're right, Eric, that discussion would have taken place, there's
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  Speaker 2: no question, and it would have been heated. But if
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  Speaker 2: he had hit five man, then he's hitting five and
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  Speaker 2: it wouldn't have mattered to me. It would have been
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  Speaker 2: the greatest home run night in Major League history, no asterisks,
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  Speaker 2: no qualifiers. Now, as far as the greatest four home
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  Speaker 2: run games, I don't know. The only one I saw
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  Speaker 2: in person was Josh Hamilton's in Baltimore, and that was incredible.
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  Speaker 2: It was a sight to behold. But my goodness, last night,
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  Speaker 2: as we're seeing the highlights here certainly fit the same description.
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  Speaker 2: As you said, Eric, they're all great and I don't
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  Speaker 2: even know necessarily to distinguish one from the other. But
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  Speaker 2: if he had hit the fifth, that would have been distinguishing.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's his Kryptoniamy.
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  Speaker 1: that case, so you'll have less to work with Anyway.
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  Speaker 1: Let's get to what I think is really special about today.
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  Speaker 1: We have more debuts on the way from young pitching
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  Speaker 1: phenom prospects in the minor leagues that we didn't expect
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  Speaker 1: to be here at this point. And Ken, for me,
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  Speaker 1: it's not just the fact that Peyton Toley, who you
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  Speaker 1: reported on yesterday, making the start tonight for Boston and
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  Speaker 1: Jonah Tong making his debut for the Mets tonight. It's
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  Speaker 1: not just that they get called up earlier than anticipated.
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  Speaker 1: It's that if they perform, they might shine and be
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  Speaker 1: stars of October in their rookie season.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, Scott, and we're seeing that with Nolan McLain. He
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  Speaker 2: is with the Mets. He just came up. He's ad
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  Speaker 2: three starts. They've been brilliant. He could be a critical
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  Speaker 2: part of the October equation. It's probably unrealistic to expect
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  Speaker 2: Peyton Toley and Jonah Tong to be as good as
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  Speaker 2: mclan has been. It would be almost impossible to be
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  Speaker 2: that good. But there is a lot of excitement with
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  Speaker 2: these particular matchups tonight. Obviously, with Totally debuting at Fenway
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  Speaker 2: against Paul Skins, that's a whole another layer to it.
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  Speaker 2: And both of these guys as well, I should mention
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  Speaker 2: this have terrific backstories, and in Totally's case, Chris Costillo
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  Speaker 2: of Masslive dot com wrote about him a couple of
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  Speaker 2: weeks ago. I think he lost his mom while he
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  Speaker 2: was in college, and he's kind of pitching for her,
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  Speaker 2: and he supposedly is this really good guy gregarious and
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  Speaker 2: his mom was the same way. So I encourage people
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  Speaker 2: to read Chris's story, and also Ian O'Connor today in
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  Speaker 2: The Athletic gets into Tongue and how he was not
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  Speaker 2: a guy that people thought was going to be this
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  Speaker 2: and yet here he is a guy who grew up
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  Speaker 2: in Toronto, bears somewhat of a physical resemblance to Linsingam
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  Speaker 2: and looks like Linsingham. On the mound, there's no other
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Tim Lindseam. I'm not drawing a comparison, but there is
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  Speaker 2: some parallel there. So I'm really excited for tonight for
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  Speaker 2: both these guys, and it should be pretty cool no
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  Speaker 2: matter how it turns out.
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  Speaker 1: Is there any bigger picture that we can learn from
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  Speaker 1: what's going on right now? Ken, or do you remember
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  Speaker 1: seeing something like this in the past. I bring it
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  Speaker 1: up because I'm wondering if teams are saying, hey, let's
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  Speaker 1: not waste bullets in the minors if we think there's
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  Speaker 1: a chance they can help in the majors and we
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  Speaker 1: have a need. We see prospects sometimes getting the fast
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  Speaker 1: track more than ever.
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  Speaker 2: Anyway, that's true, and I would throw the Mis into
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  Speaker 2: this category as well. He came up this year relatively late,
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  Speaker 2: and teams are looking to their top pitching prospects for
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  Speaker 2: perhaps more immediate help than in the past. Now, obviously,
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  Speaker 2: it takes a certain kind of picture to be able
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  Speaker 2: to make this jump totally. It was a twenty twenty
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  Speaker 2: four draft pick. For heaven's sake, this is his first
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  Speaker 2: pro season. He's gone from High A to Double A
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  Speaker 2: to Triple A and now to the majors. That is
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  Speaker 2: unheard of pretty much. So I don't know that it's
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  Speaker 2: necessarily something we're going to see much of in the future,
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  Speaker 2: but it certainly is lining up for these guys. And Scott,
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  Speaker 2: you're right. Teams definitely now are more willing than in
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  Speaker 2: the past to jump pitchers and even position players, certainly
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  Speaker 2: position players more quickly than they have before.
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  Speaker 5: Is that a Is that a credit to development in
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  Speaker 5: the minor leagues? Is that a credit to the fact
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  Speaker 5: that teams just don't want to pay veteran guys because
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  Speaker 5: they don't have the same stuff. Because history says guys
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  Speaker 5: don't bounce from the minor leagues of the big leagues
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  Speaker 5: in less than a year unless you're like Dave Winfield,
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  Speaker 5: John Olarude like like, there's like a very very small
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  Speaker 5: portion and we're seeing too many of those guys right now,
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  Speaker 5: Like a third of the Angels team barely spend any
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  Speaker 5: time in the minor league. So teams are doing this,
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  Speaker 5: what is the what's the precipice of it's what's the
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  Speaker 5: reasoning for them to do it?
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  Speaker 2: In patience and the desire to get the most talented
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  Speaker 2: players to the big leagues as quickly as possible. And
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  Speaker 2: I wonder too they're paying these guys big bonuses, the
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  Speaker 2: highest draft picks, right, whatever the number might be, Well,
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  Speaker 2: you want to return on that investment, I guess as
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  Speaker 2: quickly as possible. But it seems to me that with pitching,
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  Speaker 2: it stems from the number of pitchers teams have to
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  Speaker 2: go through each season to get through a season because
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  Speaker 2: of the increased rate of injury. And that is really
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  Speaker 2: what is a driver here. And yes, impatience too. All
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  Speaker 2: of that and all of what you said are actually
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  Speaker 2: figures into it. I would think salary figures into it
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  Speaker 2: as well. Sure, But to me, the starting point is
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  Speaker 2: the way teams run through pitchers today, which is just
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  Speaker 2: unprecedented in the game's history.
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  Speaker 3: I want to skip a little bit over here to
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  Speaker 3: the Yankees. You got me, yep, Yankees, Blue Jays, Red
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  Speaker 3: Sox all in the pennant race here. I couldn't be
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  Speaker 3: more excited, if you want the truth, Understandably, all three
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  Speaker 3: of these teams have a good chance. The Blue Jays
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  Speaker 3: are in first place. How do you see this shaking
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  Speaker 3: up with a little bit over a month left to play?
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  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, we talked about the excitement regarding
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  Speaker 2: totally and tongue tonight. But we've got a great series
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  Speaker 2: coming up. The two best teams in baseball, the Brewers
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  Speaker 2: and Blue Jays, are meeting this weekend. I still see
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  Speaker 2: the Blue Jays hanging on. I think they have enough
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  Speaker 2: of a cushion. The addition of Bieber. If he's as
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  Speaker 2: good as he was in his first start, and all
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  Speaker 2: the credit to him for doing what he's done coming
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  Speaker 2: off Tommy John, then I think certainly the Blue Jays
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  Speaker 2: are going to be the leading team in that division.
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  Speaker 2: Now beyond that, who knows where the Yankees are. They
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  Speaker 2: are great against the Nationals, they are not so great
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  Speaker 2: against teams that are better. The Red Sox are coming on,
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  Speaker 2: and the Red Sox are a legitimate team, But we'll
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  Speaker 2: just have to see how they're back of the rotation
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  Speaker 2: hole up for the month of September. Guys, I gotta
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  Speaker 2: run go for it, Ken, appreciate you all right, I
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  Speaker 2: talked to you, elder guys.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, thanks Ken,