Latest / In the Valley of Giants / The Rabbi of Hitler's Former Army | Rabbi Zsolt Balla | ITVOG Ep. 18

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The Rabbi of Hitler's Former Army | Rabbi Zsolt Balla | ITVOG Ep. 18 · In the Valley of Giants

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About two weeks into the war in Gaza, the commander, the
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inspector of the German Luftwaffe, the the Air Force,
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calls me and says, listen, I have a question to ask.
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We're going to go and visit the the base in Jordan.
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There's a Luftwaffe base in German Jordan for for
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peacekeeping. And we're going to stop on the
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way in Tel Aviv. We're going to go to the Tel
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Shomer Hospital and to donate blood to show our, well, our
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support to the IDF. Now, if you were to tell your
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grandparents that one day a three star general of the German
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Luftwaffe, the commander of the Luftwaffe, is going to come to
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the Tel Shomer Hospital in Tel Aviv to a free Jewish state with
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all its troubles, to show his support to the Israeli military.
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I would never believe you. Hello everyone.
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Today we meet Rabbi Jolt Bala. He is a prominent figure in
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modern European jewelry, notably becoming the first military
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rabbi in the German armed forces, the Bundeswehr, since
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the 1930s. Born in Hungary and educated in
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Berlin, he serves as the State Rabbi of Saxony and leads the
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Orthodox community in Leipzig. His 2021 appointment was hailed
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as a historic milestone for Jewish German reconciliation,
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signaling a profound shift in the integration of Jewish life
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within German state institutions.
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Through his work, he focuses on providing spiritual guidance to
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soldiers while promoting A vibrant, visible future for
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Jewish culture in contemporary Germany.
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We hope you enjoy. This is this is what somebody
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just told me. Then when when we say in the
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mission and on on Shabbos after you can perk and how could who
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you're selling, It's not it means like not the cottage brook
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who's going to pay for you know, it's an exclusive only the
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cottage brook who's going. To take here no one, no one
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else. It's.
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Amazing. Amazing.
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OK, let's get started. Yeah.
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Ravi Ball, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
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It's my pleasure. I see.
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My honor. The Celton really tried very
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hard for us to not meet because I think we cancelled three times
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and there's a power outage today.
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So it's as good as it's going to get.
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The first thing I wanted to ask you is growing up in in Hungary
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during the time where it was a communist country, quite as much
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a communist country, You being a kid and not even knowing that
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you were Jewish and then all of a sudden at 9 finding out that
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you were, What is that like? So the truth is it it all
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depends on what angle you're coming from.
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For me it was it was amazing. And the reason is what led me
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back to find it out at all was actually a kind of heritage that
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nobody really thinks of growing up always in the vicinity of my
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grandfather. What I got in my youth is
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whenever you wanted a toy, it's too expensive, whenever you want
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a book out of the question. And my grandfather used to say,
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and obviously as a kid, you, I didn't understand what he meant,
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that whatever is here, nobody can take away from you.
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Anything else, anything material, it can be taken away
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from you with a signature. This is the way he used to say,
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but whatever is here nobody can take away.
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So whenever you want to learn, whatever you want to read, you
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should go for it. And they, whenever I wanted a
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book, they had no problem. Now it was my favorite book, the
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Bible, the ha special and extended version.
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I love the stories from A-Z and when in 1988 there was a year
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before the the following of the Iron Curtain.
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This is the time when religious places, including churches and
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shawls, slowly but surely started to open their doors.
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So in my absolutely regular elementary school, it was a sign
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that the local Catholic Church 3 stations away from us has Sunday
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Bible classes. So I go to my mom.
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I want to learn more about it, can I go?
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So she said, well, we need to talk and the answer there's
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like, you have to know that we are Jewish.
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So what do that? What was the sudden recognition
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all these stories, it's family. So when when I find out in.
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What do you mean by that? All these stories are family.
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Tanakh, the Bible. Mean you found a purple not
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only. That my grandmother tells me
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that she is a bus levy. I'd found out that my
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grandfather is a levy. He he, he was.
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And then all of his all his brother is and and and his
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father and he said, when you see the story of Yosef Tadik, there
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is somewhere along I'm not a lady of I'm the reason I'm not a
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lady because my father wasn't Jewish.
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I'm I'm from so to say from lucky intermarriages, but it's a
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family that means I have there the names Moshe Rabena was a
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cousin of mine. I don't know how this thing but
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isn't that amazing? You felt that at 9:00.
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Absolutely, absolutely. All the stories that I admired
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and I loved and they they suddenly speak to you in a
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completely different level. It's touches you.
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It's your family story. So up until today, I, I, I'm a
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very much loved Tanakh and I hope that somehow I managed to
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install the still to and a little bit to to my children.
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There was just a week ago in in Munich, Germany for European
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kids and my younger daughter was there and a few years ago, my
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oldest daughter as well. I'm very, very happy.
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This is this is probably our it's an unbelievable connection.
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And obviously it's really just a springboard to to keep on moving
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you towards Gemara. But unfortunately that I did not
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discover until I was really 23, but still this, this incredible
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heritage of the Tanakh, this is something that is, this is a
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guidance for me up until today. So it was, it was fantastic to
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find this out. So therefore that's why I mean,
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how you find out. For me, it wasn't shocking.
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It was, it was actually a very enthusiastic experience because
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I realized, well, something that I love is now much more
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connected to me. Are we spoiled?
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How come I don't feel this way naturally?
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Well, this is something I cannot tell you.
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This is I I believe that it's every single generation's own
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differently sayana. What is the thing that keeps us
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going by Russia Shivashrita Rabinami Oskovich from Madras
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Mall. He always said that you know,
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people are always striving to find their mental tikko yami.
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You have to have some kind of thing that keeps you every day.
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But it should not be always the Ikar.
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It's the tuffle that leads you to the ikar.
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Sometimes the real Avodah Sashem is in the all day activities
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that you do, and this is the hardest part.
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Just as you say, you do not necessarily find your
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inspiration in there, so you need these inspiring moments.
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I do not know, I do not have an answer.
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And I see right now the generation of my children, I see
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that things that worked on me when I was a child that kept me
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enthusiastic about life, about anything, it doesn't work.
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They have different challenges. I really believe that this is
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what the puzzle says. You should learn history.
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Binu Cheno is the, the understand the differences, the
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word Cheno. It's not the late years, but the
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Shinui Binu Cheno is the the understand how this generation
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is very different from from the previous generation.
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So therefore I do not have an answer for that.
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I really don't have an answer for that.
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But sometimes it is really true that that to be deprived.
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And I'm sure that we're going to come to that.
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For me, living in, in a place like Germany or even Hungary,
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that is obviously not as vibrant Jewish life as here in ertiso or
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in, in even in the United States in different places.
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But because of that, that that's that that is for me something
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that I can cherish much, much more and I appreciate much more
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because it's smaller. I think you could split it up
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into into two categories, meaning I think there are people
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that they have natural predilections that they're more
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attracted to certain things. So for example, I do feel an an
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affiliation for, and I'd say a fairly strong one for the
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stories of Tanakh. It is our heritage and it is
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very powerful and there's so much shilling from it.
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But the thing that would like get me emotional would be more
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the the hash kafa, the philosophy that's just
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personally touched me more. That's that's just fine.
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Not only fine this is this is I honestly mean this is what it
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what it means. She didn't.
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Panama Latoya. 100 percent, 100%.
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You are a different type of person, something that keeps you
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moving. This is I'm I'm inspired by that
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I I found I find any kind of synthesis between you know,
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when, when you I like natural sciences.
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Natural sciences help me in my avoides Akoidesh to understand
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them more and to connect it how how it works.
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There are people who love Jacidas.
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This is something that does not speak to me.
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Very interestingly. People were trying to convince
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me for for a number of years to to learn more Jacidas or more
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philosophy. This is this is not my cup of
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tea. What I like is down to earth.
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I love Haloch, I love Tanakh, I like textual things.
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I love philology, how you build up this beautiful oila matoir
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out of out of the words of the Tanakh and out of the words of
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the Gemara. This is something that that
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inspires me and how it connects to, to the different hochmes of
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the world, the different wisdoms and the different natural
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disciplines. This is something that it, but
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this is not necessarily what speak to others.
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So this is I cannot, can, can miss anybody who comes to me and
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says for me, I'm more philosophical.
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I love Jacidas, I love Tanya. Not this is exactly the way the
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cutters were who created us differently because this is we
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need that. We need the soul and we need the
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body. We need the different aspects
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and this is this is beautiful. Right.
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But the thing I think that you were observing like amongst your
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kids and maybe the next generation is you can't it's
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it's much harder to get them hooked on anything.
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I think in general this generation, look, you know,
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rebound them in terms of educators.
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I think I have a really hard job now because, you know, you have
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to bring a, you know, a Hamish or, you know, a Gemara Tamba to
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the table and you have to compete with, you know, movies,
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you know, drugs and video games. So it's it's a, it's a totally
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different thing. And the the new thing that I
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hear now, especially from from wonderful younger rebounding
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from the states gambling is probably this is going to be the
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next big hospital line, the big challenge today, over 50% of
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young people are hooked on, you know, fantasy football and the
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these type of things. For me, it's unknown because,
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but apparently this is going to be the next challenge that
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again, I cannot relate to. But you're absolutely right.
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This is something that that is an oil and world that we do not
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understand and it's it's going to be a very huge challenge.
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We have to learn how to approach the new generation not the same
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way. Yeah, it has to be different.
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I mean, because the access is totally different.
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The access is totally, if I wanted to read something
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interesting, I couldn't just like bring it up, you know, at
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even later in life when like I had dial up.
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So it still took us all 5 minutes to get a Wikipedia
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article up. But like now, so gambling, you
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know how to gamble, you go to a casino right now, if you're a
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kid, you can pull out your phone I guess and get them two
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seconds. It's a, it's a totally different
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environment. It's a totally different
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environment. Yeah.
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OK, so but let's pivot a little bit.
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I do want to talk about something that I really don't
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understand. So you're going to explain it to
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me. How do you, and I'm not
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necessarily talking about your work in the army just yet in
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Germany, but how do you in in good conscience or how are you
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comfortable with it of of living in a land where demons once
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longed and the ground is soaked with innocent blood.
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Like how, how, how do you how do you deal with?
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That this is a fantastic question and let me tell you in
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a different way. We met past summer in Budapest
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in Hungary and I had a very cherished aunt.
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She was actually the, the sister-in-law of my grandfather,
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the mother of my uncle here in Bakyam.
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And she was a, a, a real, she was a lady, She was an
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aristocratical woman. She was not from Budapest.
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We're from the outskirts of Budapest.
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And she was deported. She, she was in Auschwitz during
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the World War. And she said always the
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following. I did not hear a German word
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until we reached the camps. I was not deported by Germans, I
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was deported by Hungarians, and this according to my humble
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understanding. Unfortunately, this is the case
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in every single European country.
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Just think about how Poland and Lithuania are currently legally
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trying to fight anybody to say, for example, in as far as I
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know, in Polish law, you cannot tell that Auschwitz was a Polish
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death camp. He was a German death camp on
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Polish grounds. You have to mention that
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Lithuanians, same thing. You cannot tell that Lithuanians
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were perpetrators or they were lies.
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We were occupied. In 2016, the Hungarian
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government instituted a new monument in the middle of
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Budapest, where the narrative is as follows.
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The Archangel Gabriel representing Hungary is grabbed
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by the evil eagle representing Germany.
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What is the narrative that we Hungarians, whatever happened in
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the Second World War, we were only because of the Germans.
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The way I personally perceive history is as follows.
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There's an orchestra that has a conductor.
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Does the conductor play the instruments?
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The answer is no. And still very often if the any
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other concert, you clap the the the conductor because he's
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holding the band together. But if there will be, there will
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be no musicians, there will be no music coming out.
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So this is Zebezegoire. Let's put it this way.
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All of them, all of the perpetrators in in Europe, they
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were part of that. And as long as people are not
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able to face their own past, it's impossible to move forward.
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And this is the only difference that I personally experienced in
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Germany. If there is one country in
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Europe that said we have to deal with this, we were part of that,
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we did. Again, you can say maybe they
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have no, they have no Breda, they don't have a choice because
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it's very often. But still the Germans, they
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faced their history. Do we have problems?
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Yes. Are there problems of
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anti-Semitism all over Europe? The answer is yes.
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The question is if something comes up, how do you deal with
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that? Do you sweep it under the rug or
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you're going to say I have a problem?
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You know, when each, each report each month we have an open
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Intelligence Report about anti-Semitic attacks in, in, in
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Europe. And Germany is always high with
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numbers. And the question is how come
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Germany's so much higher in numbers?
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And the answer is because in Germany it gets reported and it
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gets dealt with, unlike in other countries.
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So you're asking me whether, looking back, I'm pretty sure
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that none of our achaenubine Israel have a problem to visit
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Rome nowadays, even to go to the Colosseum that was built with
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Jewish blood in the 10 years of the aftermath of the Urbana
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bias? That's right, Do.
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With money from from the base of.
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Money, money and manpower, right?
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This is something that really your ancestor, our ancestor were
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building up this Colosseum and old between 70 and 80 common
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error isn't that crazy and we do not have that feeling And I
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think it's it's also it's it's a very, very hard question and I'm
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again, we cannot whitewash anything.
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But I honestly, whenever it comes to, to memorial events and
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in my role as a rabbi in Germany, very often I have to
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say Hakelmarach and in a memorial prayer for those who
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have been murdered in the shore Hashemi Kondama.
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And I personally, because of personal conviction, I, I do not
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use the word Germanim. I use the word Nazim, the
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Ozerian Michel Omot that to understand that, that it's not,
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it cannot be a country. You know, there's, there's a
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beautiful piece in the, in the Gemara that says Germania, the,
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the Gras changes. Germania is, is, is out of a lot
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of small kingdoms. If they were to unite, they
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would come to destroy the world. I think it's a Gemara and
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Megillah and, and we see that. We see that now.
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At the same time, I really believe that our sages were
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very, very clear about that. They saw with great destruction,
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they get great destructive power, also great potential.
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Just think about why the head of Asaph is in Marsa Marpella,
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because, because, and I think this, this is the same now it's
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and it's very, very important in my role also as a rabbi in the
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military or somebody who is a German citizen is I don't want
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to make the same mistake as our brothers did a little bit over
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100 years ago. Which was what?
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Blind patriotism, blind patriotism in any country.
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And I speak now hopefully to all of our Athena bases all over the
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world. I really believe that we have to
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look at our places and I can tell you what is my, one of the,
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my driving forces for that. Wherever we are, we are obliged
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to be not just good citizens, but we have to bring something
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over. I, I tell you straight away the,
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the source for that is the Yushalmi and the Torre to Mima,
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which is for me an incredible source.
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Let's start with that. It's always better to start with
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Torre. When, when Yakov Avinu comes
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back from Haran with the family and he settles opposite the city
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of Shukran, the Torre uses the word Vayikhan Espenejoir.
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He built up his, he encamps opposite the city of Shukran.
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But our stations say, what do you mean?
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Baji Khan Espeni and, and the Gemara says in in Shabbos
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there's a three day makloikis between Rabi Arkhan and
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Reshlakis. What, what does it mean?
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Baji Khan once says he built up bath houses.
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He made the new matbea, new currency or he built up Ashok.
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And then the Ushalmi's version is that he was building Atlasi
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and the Ushalmi's explicit mikan.
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From here we have a source Shayavim anu bring we we are do
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we are obligated for a tikkun wherever we are.
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The Torah Tamima on the spot explains that the source for
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this hue of tikkun to to make the place better is because of
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Hakar Satyaev. A place allows you to live
19:53
there. Please look it up.
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It's really in in the process for me.
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It's one of the. Driving forces in whatever I do,
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whenever, wherever we Jews find ourselves, it's our obligation
20:07
to make the place better. At the same time, just think
20:11
about the stories, scheme, what happened over there with Dina.
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We cannot blindly say we love the place.
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Everything is great, everything is nice and dandy.
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You always have to have a certain controlled and
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reflective looking at the place. You have to, you cannot be a
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blind patriot, but you have to have always measured
20:34
understanding. I it's my obligation to make the
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place better. But there's a limit.
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The limit is, is are they going in the, the same Ruachatoire?
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Do they, do they really represent the ideas that you
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describe that represents? And there, this is where you
20:54
have to raise your voice to say that this is not OK according to
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us, that that holds true for human rights.
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So I really believe that as a Jew living in Germany, it's my
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obligation to bring this tikkun about that, that that the Gemara
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and Yerushal is speaking about, but not a blind one.
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That means at the moment Germany steps out of of its line of
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being on the right side of history is the point where I as
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a Jew have to say at can. I don't know in what ways either
21:31
we raise our voices or say I'm not part anymore of the system.
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But somehow my humble personal interpretation interpretation
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is, is we have to be part of the system to make sure that we keep
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it on the right side of history. So you're asking me how do I
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feel about it in Germany? I believe that I look trying to
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look at it. Bashir Hussain And right now
21:57
Germany stands on the right side of history.
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And we Jews who live there should do our best to keep it
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this way, not believe it blindly, that it's a beautiful
22:08
state and everything is great. No, there are huge problems, a
22:10
huge, huge deficit. But if we are part of the
22:15
system, we can, we can have a word.
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And we this is. But is that some sort of like
22:20
moral obligation that you feel that you have to do?
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You could live in Canada, you could live here.
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You could live in the US. You're.
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Absolutely right. If I were to to end up with
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these places, I would have the same moral obligation.
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The it's it's just. So why?
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Why Germany? It's.
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Sometimes not the question of. Like correct my vision.
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The optics to me is, as someone who's completely uninitiated, is
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like going going to hell to make it like heaven.
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It's not about that. I really believe it's, it's a
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little bit different. In 2008, I was already in the
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Smikha program in Berlin. Actually, I was already after
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Smikha, but not before the before Shaka Smikha, which I
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never intended in my life. And I was in the States and the
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people were asking me the same question.
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Why are you in Germany? What do you do there?
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And the quick answer is, you know, in 1990 there were about
23:13
200,000 Jews that the Cottage Brook who said here they are,
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where should I take them? If he were to ask your opinion,
23:20
he said bring them to earthy soil, bring them to Surfside
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Miami, I don't know, whatever. But he did not ask your opinion
23:29
and he did not ask my opinion, but rather for whatever reason,
23:34
these even were put down in Germany.
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And now the question is not how did they end up in Germany, but
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what do they, what do you do with them?
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My story I never intended to end up in Germany.
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I was in 2003 after my masters, I, I was studying engineering
23:51
and management. And this, this was a transition
23:55
between the age of 17 and 2122 when I started to observe
23:59
mitzvahs and a friend suggested that maybe you should study in
24:03
the yeshiva. Now, how can I convince my
24:06
parents to study in yeshiva to Israel?
24:08
They were already very afraid of the idea of, of coming to Israel
24:12
at all. But to go to Berlin to yeshiva,
24:16
sure, whatever. It's it's, it's, it's, we are
24:19
very open minded. It's Europe.
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It's a very progressive country. Go to Berlin.
24:24
So it wasn't really me. It was just an opportunity, my
24:29
only opportunity that opened up in 2002 to study in Yeshiva and
24:34
it happened to be in Berlin. And then you suddenly get
24:39
connected to that Jewish circle, then you go.
24:42
Then I came to year for a year towards Israel to study here in
24:46
yeshiva as well, which was very, very important, very
24:48
informative. But I already back then came
24:51
unconditioned to return to the rabbinical seminary, to the base
24:54
matters to Berlin. Because for them it was
24:57
important to build up a makhantora, because why do you
25:01
have to build up a makhantora? Because we have here close to
25:04
200,000 Jews, how do you keep them?
25:08
It was not my vision. It was rather those visions that
25:11
we're speaking about here. Mussmach of Rabdovitz,
25:14
Feinstein, Sotal, Raphael Spinner, who is an executive
25:18
vice president of the of the Ladder Foundation.
25:21
His vision was when he was asked by Mr. Lauter, what should I do
25:24
in Germany to keep these Jews who ended up there?
25:26
Mr. Lauter told him. He told Mr. Lauter, you need
25:30
here a Malcolm Tor, you need a yeshiva.
25:32
So in the meantime, the yeshiva cannot exist anymore.
25:36
So it's I feel like because of who literally created the
25:39
yeshiva for me for a few years to study in and then base
25:44
matters for for for rabbinical for his Mika program.
25:48
And I, my studying was, I did not really choose this, but I
25:55
could not say no, not because of financial reasons, but because I
25:59
felt obligated because of a Kurasotov.
26:02
The idea, the way the tortoise puts it, it's for me, it's
26:06
really a driving force. So I never, I did not look for
26:09
Germany. I did not look out.
26:12
OK, here I am in Budapest. Where should I go where I could
26:15
have a better place? I never imagined myself to leave
26:18
Hungary. I only went for a year to
26:20
yeshiva, and the one year has become two.
26:24
Why Dafka Germany? Because this is where the color
26:27
group who created that system. Again, why?
26:30
I do not know. Do I understand it?
26:32
Absolutely not, but. It's divine provenance.
26:34
It's, I really believe Haziracha practice.
26:36
But again, we're speaking about, I told Ruff in the beginning.
26:43
My daughter is right now here in the Mezhala, our eyes is on
26:47
Airzis. Oh, and I, I really believe that
26:50
this is the future of the Jewish people.
26:52
And looking at Europe right now, I have no idea how future is
26:56
right, how, what's, what's going to happen.
26:59
And therefore I, I'm, I'm not idealizing or the situation, but
27:05
as long as I can be part of making sure that the right
27:10
allies will be always in Israel's side and, and the right
27:15
thing is done in Germany, I have a deep and immense hacker
27:19
assertive to, to Germany that I can live there as I do.
27:22
But again, it's increasingly harder.
27:26
So I'm really curious what our viewers are going to say also.
27:28
But I want you to, you don't have to attack me, but I want I
27:30
want your honest opinion. No, I really do watch, watch.
27:33
I hear your I hear what you're saying and it makes sense.
27:35
It makes sense. It completely makes sense to me.
27:37
So is my view, would you say maybe improper or moral?
27:42
So I'll tell you a small story. It's funny that you, you bring
27:44
up you bring up Italy. So I was recently in Italy and I
27:48
was in Rome and I was by the Colosseum.
27:49
And I asked myself this question in my head.
27:52
Like, you know, Germany, I really feel is like a place it's
27:56
just so dark, but yet I'm in Italy and Romans weren't exactly
28:00
the friendliest people to Jews. So while I was having that
28:03
thought, my, my wife shared with the tour guide that we were by,
28:06
you know, that we were Jewish. And he was like, Oh, I really
28:08
want to ask you a question. This is so interesting because I
28:11
was thinking about it at the time is do you feel like any
28:14
animosity towards, you know, Italy or Rome or, you know,
28:17
Romans because of, you know, the amount of people that we killed
28:20
and that we destroyed your temple?
28:22
And I said, yeah, yeah, I do. I do feel that way.
28:25
And I don't feel nearly as much that way as Germany.
28:28
And he was surprised. He was like, what do you mean?
28:30
I've asked Israelis this and all of them say no.
28:32
I say, well, you know, I, I do feel, you know something about
28:35
it. He says, I'm from Sicily.
28:36
You can't get mad at me, which was cute.
28:38
But, but but maybe maybe I'm looking at it wrong.
28:40
You know, maybe maybe it's, it's the, it's definitely the people,
28:43
not the place. OK, that's that's for sure.
28:45
But maybe I really should not be.
28:47
It's just, it's just hard for me to, to, to imagine, you know,
28:51
the children of, of, of the some of the most horrible ideas and
28:54
executions that have ever existed since the beginning of
28:57
the creation of the universe and, and, and just live next to
29:01
them side by side and, and improve that situation.
29:04
But but but share with me. That's I think you're right.
29:07
The question is we how the the. Am I maybe I'm wrong?
29:09
Maybe that's an empathis? There's an emotional and there's
29:12
a cognitive factor in the whole thing.
29:14
If you look at the things logical, you always try to look,
29:18
you know, first of all, there's always the human factor.
29:23
You have the core to to break the cycle.
29:27
Just think about would a today's yeshiva accept Yitzhakavinu to
29:34
to his life. I mean, his father is a
29:35
Bolsheva. His grandfather was Oeva
29:38
Avoizazara with the worst imagine coming from this place
29:43
or cast them in the middle of Mesopotamia.
29:46
So it's it's we, we have a certain perceptions, but we have
29:50
it's very clear. It's introduced in our
29:52
tradition. You are able to break the cycle.
29:56
So therefore, I don't know whether you, I really have no
30:00
idea. And I, I think this is really
30:03
above my pay grade to look at people as the grandchildren or
30:06
perpetrators to say that here you have a greater potential
30:10
because again, I really believe so that people who have want to
30:14
perpetrate bad, bad things, they also have a potential in other
30:18
areas that could also build. So how do you approach that?
30:23
I do not have an answer for that.
30:25
My compare, your comparison is you probably is being brought up
30:32
in the United States where people were not connected to the
30:36
perpetrators and anything. You have a different view at the
30:39
same time I'm coming from. Hungary.
30:41
I grew up with a lot of Holocaust survivors.
30:43
That survivors, yeah, but not people.
30:45
Who? No.
30:45
Absolutely no. Exposure.
30:47
I grew up in Hungary and you could people amongst people who
30:52
said we had nothing to do with that, but some, I don't know who
30:55
was very smart, who said, you know, the greatest perpetration
30:59
was not the acts committed, but being silent while they were
31:03
committed. Right, right.
31:04
Absolutely. And I grew up amongst them.
31:08
So now my comparison is between those who say we have nothing to
31:13
do with that or say, or those who say we had something to do
31:17
with that. And it's hard to deal with it,
31:19
but we're trying our best. So this is this is, this is my
31:24
choice. And what do I find as a better
31:27
alternative? One who who denies that there's
31:30
ever we've ever been part of this, but we you know that you
31:33
were part of this or to say, well, we had we played an
31:37
instrumental. Role, I mean, you have to
31:39
believe this because I mean, you're in the the Army.
31:43
Yeah, I mean the German military that's.
31:45
Right. Yeah, German military had a lot
31:46
to do with Jews, you know, I get it.
31:48
I get it. But you take a look at the
31:50
again, you take a look at the again in the Bashar Hosham, take
31:55
a look at also. The problem is that we do not
31:58
see always the historical nuances and the changes.
32:03
Did you? Do you know exactly the the
32:06
history of the current German military?
32:08
What happened after 1994? Not 1945, sorry.
32:12
I don't know anything. So this is when you have to.
32:15
It took me also to time to understand and to learn.
32:18
In 1946, German becomes demilitarized.
32:21
Nine years later, Germany says we have to set up a military and
32:26
how's this military going to look like?
32:28
What do we do that is not going to be a continuation and to
32:32
establish a whole centre for constant ethical and moral
32:39
guidance and and and norms for the military.
32:44
That is establishing that even if you're part of the chain of
32:47
command, but to do something that your superior tells you
32:51
that it's against the German law, You are accountable
32:57
according to German law. And, and all the, the, the, the
33:02
critical measures that Germany does in this area.
33:06
It's something that is today unknown in the, even in the
33:09
world of the NATO. And I'm telling you right now my
33:13
humble understanding in Germany regarding military, we have
33:18
something very, very special and extraordinary in a very, very
33:23
positive way, but people don't know about it.
33:26
Even those who are in the military don't do not always
33:29
know about it. The the whole the way, the moral
33:32
and ethical basis of the this is actually what we in the military
33:36
chaplains deal with mostly in Germany.
33:39
Because, you know, Germany has not been so deeply involved in
33:43
conflicts in the past sixty years or 70 years.
33:49
At the same time, if I, if I ask you this, this is really
33:53
something happened. This is about two weeks into the
33:56
war in Gaza. The commander, the inspector of
34:01
the German Luftwaffe, the the Air Force calls me and says,
34:05
listen, I have a question to ask just that.
34:10
You know, unfortunately, since your chaplains are civilians in
34:14
the system, in the German military, I cannot take you
34:17
along with me. But we're going to go and visit
34:20
the, the base in Jordan. There's a Luftwaffe base in
34:23
Germany, Jordan for, for peacekeeping.
34:27
And we're going to stop on the way in Tel Aviv.
34:30
And my idea is that my little group, we're going to be about 9
34:38
or 10 young like me and another young, younger officers, about
34:42
10 officers. We're going to go to the Telstra
34:45
near hospital and to donate blood to show our, well, our
34:51
support to the IDF. Now, if you were to tell your
34:56
grandparents that one day a three star general of the German
35:03
Luftwaffe, the commander of the Luftwaffe, is going to come to
35:07
the Tel Shomer Hospital in Tel Aviv, to a free Jewish state
35:11
with all its troubles, to show his support to the Israeli
35:17
military, I would never believe you.
35:19
So again, we are ready to see Hajdahratis in the tiniest
35:26
things in our lives. This is huge.
35:28
Yeah, definitely. So again, I, it's not me I don't
35:33
want. Again, I would like to
35:34
emphasize, I don't want to be a blind patriot.
35:37
Blind patriotism is incredibly dangerous.
35:40
Incredibly dangerous, but we should be there and we should
35:45
have a voice and to form a like we want to be part of it.
35:49
We I really believe that currently the German military
35:53
and Germany's on the right side of history and me as a Jew, I
35:56
want to make sure that this is going to remain as long as it's
36:00
possible. I did not apply for this job.
36:05
I really did. I just as I did not mean to come
36:09
to Germany and to study. That was not my goal or went for
36:13
financial this this is simply just the right step to do in
36:17
order to choose something greater, not for myself, but for
36:20
the Jewish communities at at that point in time.
36:23
You. You were chosen.
36:25
I, I don't know, I, no, I don't like it.
36:27
It's, it's, it's much more like every single part of your life.
36:32
I just want to call it against the Gemara and Makos.
36:35
So if if there's a path you want, you say, what I would like
36:41
to do is I want to serve the colors, bro.
36:43
Who the best way possible. He's going to create the
36:46
opportunities to go to the right places.
36:48
And then your your job is to to do the right choices.
36:52
Did I do the right choices? I do not know.
36:55
But my guiding line is I'm trying to do my best not for
37:00
myself, but really for the sake of the Jewish people.
37:05
Not Yeah, it's I wish there is more, but I this is really a a
37:11
very important guideline for me and I would like to create the
37:14
same opportunities that I received and and to be able to
37:18
go in that direction. It's I I don't know how to do it
37:23
up until I have no clue. I have an immense across the
37:28
total because the way he orchestrated this whole thing
37:32
and I'm trying to be just ideally a good vessel, a good
37:38
tool in the hands of The Who to do whatever he wishes to do in
37:42
this world. I have no idea how it works out.
37:44
I'm trying to do my best. That's all I can do.
37:47
And for that, as crazy as it seems, according to my
37:52
evaluation, obviously, you know, one of the most important
37:55
things, Asila Farrell, no Jew can exist in this world without
38:00
somebody who can talk to on a general basis.
38:02
I'm I'm blessed with an incredible Rebbe who I can turn
38:06
to with questions or Shabtai Verma report invite to a gun and
38:12
and it's it's unbelievable to have a reflection of if I'm do,
38:17
am I doing the right thing? Is this?
38:18
Is this something that will go on ahead?
38:20
I don't mean that I know that I did often go against the will of
38:25
my Roshi Shiva, but based on my understanding, but I really
38:27
think that I did the the the things that that was supposed
38:31
to, I was supposed to be doing. I think that's all really God
38:35
wants from us. It's it's all about trying her
38:38
best to do the right thing. Right.
38:40
Everything else is ancillary. Ancillary and I have no idea how
38:43
it's going to work out and I do not know.
38:46
But that's what makes life. Worthwhile.
38:47
Yeah yeah yeah absolutely. So I I don't know if if our talk
38:50
next here is going to be the same.
38:52
You haven't you know, because has incredible ways to to turn
38:56
history around and and we do not know we see how within two years
39:03
really the. Whole world is upside down,
39:05
yeah. Upside down, Yeah, Upside down
39:08
how how it's going to be next year.
39:11
I'm maybe I will be here in your session one of the one of the
39:15
coil members. Let's do it I.
39:18
Would love it. Well, tell me this, if if
39:21
Germany really is so advanced in its more obligations and forward
39:26
thinking, then why is there such a stark increase and
39:29
anti-Semitism in Germany? This is, this is, I believe that
39:41
it's the landscape, not in Germany, but in Europe and in
39:46
the Western world is opening up. We were always standing to look
39:50
at history as these these places are isolated from each other.
39:56
The boundaries are not there anymore.
39:59
According to, again, my humble understanding, the boundaries
40:02
between France and Germany, they are not anymore as strong as
40:06
they used to be. And there's not such a big, big
40:08
divide culturally. What information reaches these
40:13
places? You know, everybody is fixed on
40:16
the same TikTok and whatever Instagram reels all over in the
40:22
world. So the Western world as a whole.
40:26
I don't think we should be looking at Germany as an
40:28
isolated case. We should understand.
40:30
It's part of Germany. No, but I asked that because of
40:32
the things that you said. Before but but but again, the
40:35
the increasing is it's not German specific.
40:39
It's not German. No, I'm not saying.
40:41
It's it's it's. No, it's all over Europe.
40:42
It's I'd say it's global actually.
40:44
Yeah, yeah. You go.
40:45
Of course, what I'm just saying, especially because of these of
40:49
these measures that Germany does take, why is there such a?
40:52
Because you cannot isolate yourself anymore from the rest
40:55
of the world, and there are certain narratives that are more
41:00
so. Germany is the UK and the UK is
41:01
France. In in essence, that's what
41:03
you're, that's what you're saying.
41:04
That's the explanation. I, I or or put it differently,
41:13
UK is where France is going to be in 10 years and France is
41:17
where Germany is going to be in 10 years.
41:19
If there are, the tendencies are not going down.
41:23
Yeah, I you know, if politicians, historians, social
41:36
scientists, rabonim did not find an antidote in the past 80 years
41:41
for anti-Semitism, I'm a nobody. I'm more than a nobody in this
41:46
question. So I really don't know.
41:48
I have no explanation for this. My only explanation is this is
41:51
MI Alateva. This is something that is beyond
41:54
our understanding is. Asaph Sona as Yaakov.
41:58
As as the Gemara says, what does that exactly mean?
42:02
Our sages were debating and also for centuries.
42:06
There is a certain tendency in the world.
42:08
But again, but I would not deviate from the fact that there
42:13
is a certain hatred between Asaph and Yaakov, but still
42:16
Asaph's head in the Marasamya. So there is there is a very
42:20
strong connection and there's a strong divide.
42:24
And this is it's it's very often it's a all or nothing type of
42:29
game. So I don't know if it's our
42:32
avoid as a koi dish is to divide everything to the all that ASAP
42:36
will be all in in Amarasa Machpelah or to understand the
42:41
this. This is not an all or nothing
42:44
game. And we have to.
42:46
We have a certain very, very sensitive balance to to navigate
42:50
on. If I had a guess, I would say
42:52
that we do have the antidote If if I had a guess, historically,
42:57
I feel whenever you have guy am really listening to what Jews
43:02
have to say. Everything opens up like if the
43:05
Kocharamban or pretty much any story in the Gemara where
43:07
there's an honest conversation with the other side.
43:10
I just feel like, and we're guilty of this too.
43:13
By the way, we'll have the dolph of dolphin Tanakh when the
43:16
Shvatam would argue with each other.
43:18
But as as soon as things don't become dogmatic and people just
43:22
sit down and have a conversation.
43:23
I mean, how could you not be enthralled with the morality
43:26
that we have and the wisdom that we have?
43:27
And there's so much stolen from going as well, like the H clock
43:30
won't be going. I think it's all about honest
43:32
conversation. I, I said this recently to
43:33
someone and and I think it's true.
43:35
And I use this example only because everyone will understand
43:37
it. But there's so many stories like
43:39
this and that we have in causal. But Charlie Kirk, you know,
43:43
Charlie Kirk is someone that just wanted to sit down and have
43:47
natural free flowing intellectual conversations with
43:49
people just so that we would all learn from each other, which is
43:51
what we're doing right now. But he did it more for the with
43:53
the extreme elements elements, I think.
43:55
I think maybe that. This is definitely the the this
43:59
is also what I find in the German military.
44:02
This is what we do. Is that easy for you or are
44:05
people? Do people want to hear what you
44:06
have to say? Yes.
44:07
That's that's amazing. They want these.
44:08
Like I had a conversation I was speaking to about 3-4 years ago
44:17
to about 100 young officers of the, of the IT school of the
44:22
German army. And one of them says, like we
44:26
read this about night. The first of all one of them, I
44:29
think he was captain I I don't know any Jews.
44:33
And is this really. So what you're experiencing is
44:36
that I tell him episodes from my life of, of experienced
44:41
day-to-day micro, the animosity or micro, I'll call it micro
44:50
because it's something that you would not go to court with
44:52
nothing, Nobody's hurt. But still there is a, you know,
44:56
somebody spits towards your direction.
44:58
These these are the micro things that are when they're added up,
45:02
it could be very, very dangerous.
45:04
And I tell him and he says, wow, I did not know that.
45:06
So let's just have a conversation.
45:08
But I can, I can absolutely understand that there are those
45:10
who, who have, have a different understanding of how this works.
45:16
And I, I really try my best to, to, to speak as well.
45:20
And this is exactly what is happening in the military.
45:23
If you're asking me if and this is the voice of most of the
45:27
Jewish military personnel of the German military of the previous
45:32
years, empirically, if there is one segment of the German
45:37
society where anti-Semitism did not increase in the past two
45:42
years, the German military amazing.
45:45
Yes, First of all, they have the excess they have.
45:48
There are currently 7 rabbis working in in the in the field.
45:53
My job is to be their religious superior in in religious terms,
45:58
but they are in five regions in Germany.
46:00
They are constantly speaking to group of non Jewish soldiers as
46:05
part of the ethical and and moral training of the soldiers
46:10
and A and a military personnel and it's working amazingly or
46:14
just the three weeks ago I participated at a comment of the
46:18
cyber and information space. I there were 400 young officers.
46:23
I was there from the military Rebinet and by the way, there
46:27
were also two Jewish soldiers as well out of the 400 and you're
46:31
just there. There's nothing.
46:32
Let's just speak about it and then you next to a coffee, you
46:36
speak to to soldiers and it's like I said, I would like to
46:38
understand my I'm I'm Christian. This is what tell me more.
46:42
This is fantastic. Let's have an honest
46:45
conversation. I totally with you.
46:47
That honest conversation is definitely a tool and a vehicle
46:50
to take it apart. The problem is that whenever you
46:55
have to reach something in the world, you need micro elements
47:00
and macro elements and the micro elements.
47:04
You're absolutely right, but micro elements are not being
47:08
able to be taken out to the macro.
47:11
So the the conversations that you refer to with Charlie Kirk
47:16
or even what we have with the with the other German military
47:20
personnel, they're working fantastically in a microwave,
47:23
but a micro environment. But I find it impossible to
47:28
transport it to the macro because they're different rules
47:32
of the game. Well.
47:34
Maybe it's, maybe it's a groundswell movement, maybe it
47:37
just has to be grassroots. Yeah, but but I hear, I hear the
47:40
difficulty. It is very difficult.
47:41
But I, I definitely agree with you that that that talks and,
47:45
and conversations and, and help. There are also, by the way, for
47:50
that, there's a fantastic. I really think it's a fantastic.
47:57
You know, we always have a problem with interreligious
47:59
dialogue. How, where do you put, where do
48:03
you draw the line not to bring in theology?
48:06
This was a big issue for Moshe Feinstein.
48:09
That's how. And my Rebbe developed a program
48:14
together with the theological faculty of of the Leipzig
48:17
University. It's called Dialogical Bible
48:20
Reading. So what they do is we take a
48:22
text from the Tanakh and strictly Tanakh because it's a
48:27
common text, and leave all commentaries behind.
48:32
You sit down with Christian scholars and Jewish scholars and
48:38
let's let's read and let's just think what the text tells you
48:43
without a permission to bring in any commentary.
48:47
That sounds fun. It is fun because you really
48:50
have to focus on very often you come up with the same,
48:53
especially in the beginning. It's very, very hard because we
48:57
and the yeshiva system, we're trained to always look for what
49:00
the commentaries say. But you know, one of my first
49:04
ravines said always, you know, what is the first commentary you
49:07
always have to go to is a rush. And he did not mean Rabin Usher.
49:11
You have to go to the rush. Go to the rush first try to
49:15
understand, just contemplate on it a little bit.
49:18
What does it tell you? And then when you think you put
49:22
it together according to your then move on and to see what
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Khazal and and the Rishonim have to say about it.
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But first try to analyse it. And so over there in this
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dialogical reading, we only go to the first step, right?
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But to say what does the text mean to you?
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We in the past summer we were speaking about the Noah stories.
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And if you just take a look at nothing else but the story, even
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if with the translation you will see there's so many black holes.
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Hazal filled it up. But try to fill it up yourself
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without Hazal a little bit and you will see you're bringing a
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whole world. And it speaks to non Jews as
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well. Right, fascinating.
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Rabbi Bal, unfortunately, we've run out of time, but thank you
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so much for being with us here today.
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It's my pleasure and wishing much more success and this
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beautiful achievement and and and much, much has luck for all
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the tall medium and to your Abolitus coiders, thank you so
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much for this great honour. I mean, Lamar.