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'Chicago' Story and Characters | The BSB Podcast · The BSB Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Chicago, the city where the jazz is hot, the morals are flexible, and if you can't be famous, you better be infamous.
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On today's episode of the BSB podcast, we're stepping into a world of jazz hands and jail cells where murder is a media strategy, lawyers tap dance, and justice comes with a kick
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line.
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It's razzle, it's dazzle, it's scandal with sequence on.
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So pop the cork, strike a pose, and remember in Chicago, it's not about what you did, it's about how you sell it.
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But before we dive in, like, follow, and subscribe to us, BSB Insider, and all social media platforms at BSB Insider.
0:33
And as always, spoiler warning, we will be breaking down the characters and narrative of Broadway Chicago.
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So if you haven't seen the musical yet, pause this video and return once you have.
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Now, RJ, remind me, correct me if I'm wrong, but for somebody who has been in the world of
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musicals and acting in theater you have not seen Chicago prior to going to Broadway is that correct
1:00
That is correct.
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That feels blasphemous more so for you than it does for me.
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I mean there's quite a few old-timey musicals, like classics, that I have still not seen, but...
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I mean, there's just, there's too many.
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There's too many.
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okay, this this musical specifically, it has been right now currently the longest running show on Broadway.
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We've been to Broadway.
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This will be our third time going to Broadway.
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And we're just now.
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Deciding to enter the world of Chicago.
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Why is that, do you think?
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And I'm putting you on the spot, so I don't have to answer that question.
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for that exact reason, right?
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Because we, I mean, I had not seen it before.
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And there's one cast member specifically that I was primarily looking forward to seeing performing live.
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Okay, I'm gonna stop throwing you under the bus, because I also hadn't seen Chicago until this past fall when it was done by a local production here in Michigan.
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And I went into it completely blind and had no idea what this musical was about.
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Other than the songs that, unfortunately, I like this is always the kicking off point that we talk about so many shows, I knew it from Glee.
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You know, I knew cell block tango from Glee.
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think that's the only song that they did in Glee from the show, which I think as we explore some of what's going on in the show, that makes a little bit of sense.
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But yeah, I also was just completely.
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Oblivious to what Chicago was until the twenty twenty five, twenty twenty six season.
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So it's interesting that we went into this both relatively blind, though even I had just a little bit more of an idea than you did.
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So I think this will give us a good.
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interesting perspective of the story.
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Um, that being said, you obviously knew of some of the music because I'm sure this is music that you've heard performed time and time again throughout your years of acting.
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Correct, yeah, I probably knew about a third of the music.
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Because, know, again, like you said, like this is one of the longest running show, this is currently the longest running show on Broadway, which means that it's made itself on every
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top 10 Broadway tracks and playlists, and I'm dating myself with tracks.
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um
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Yeah, way to go ahead and tell everybody you back pain.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But literally, mean, the same...
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um
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songs that I've probably heard sung at a thousand and one voice competitions because there are some numbers that just like you mentioned like everybody knows and they're just
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classics and they're earworms that get stuck in your head so yeah I was I knew of the general musical kind of entree that is Chicago
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So I'm going to ask you this too, because again, you went in pretty much blindsided by it.
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That makes it sound like we didn't know what we were expecting.
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Obviously, we kind of knew some of what we were expecting.
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But the music itself that you had performed doesn't ever really give away the story for Chicago like some other musicals.
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you agree with that?
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Yeah, no, they're very, um of course, very cabaret-ish.
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So what I mean by that is like you could perform a single number and there is a full story within that number and so it's not really giving away a full scale what the plot or what
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part of the plot is it from the musical itself.
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So when we talk about the plot, which obviously we're gonna jump into, um I think it's also interesting when you talk about that to talk about the structure as well a little
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bit.
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And obviously this will come full circle back in part two, but this is not your traditional story.
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And in fact, I think in our chess discussion, you brought up how these two shows are similar in the fact that they are more concert-esque than they are narrative story heavy.
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What do you think that does for a story such as Chicago?
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To change it into more of a cabaret-esque structure instead of having it be very narratively heavy.
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I mean, as an audience member, it's something to get used to because it's unique to that style of show.
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Like, I have a hard time, and I probably even said this with Chess, I have a hard time comparing this show with really anything else that we saw because it's just...
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There's no scenes, right?
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Like, you don't even think about that.
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Like, there's almost never...
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I don't think there is a blackout.
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um No one ever completely leaves the stage.
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There's almost minimal costume changes.
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Like, just the things that you expect from a traditional show, you're not getting with this.
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Because it is that concert...
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Setup.
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And again, when we get to part two, I haven't done a little bit, but I'll set the scene for you guys real quick, is that there is a stage, but mostly it's centered around the
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band, which the band is in the middle, it's front and center, it's kind of the glitzy and the glam.
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There's stairs in the middle that bring characters up and out of the stage.
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There's side piece places, like side hallways that people can walk through.
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But truthfully, it is the band and the people telling the story, and occasionally a chair.
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There's some chairs.
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Um, but really there's nothing else going on in this story, which is telling the story of a, of a woman who commits murder and gets sent to jail.
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And it's interesting because it's, I mean, it's clearly set in the vaudeville stage.
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So that's probably kind of sort of the field that was back then.
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I'm trying to remember like gypsy, when we saw gypsy, that was also vaudeville.
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And that was also very much like singers on stage telling their story.
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maybe with a little bit of a costume, but there really wasn't much else going on the stage because was like Vaudeville was about the actors.
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And that's truly the kind of the story, the way that they're presenting the story of Chicago, almost like they're telling a Vaudeville story of the murder that happened at the
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hands of Roxy Hart.
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Yeah, it's leaving a lot to the imagination in regards to even just like where are they, right?
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Like the story is giving you minimal information, I think with the purpose of you as the patron imagining what that looks like for yourself.
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sure.
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ah So with the story of Chicago, again 1920s, we follow the story of Roxy Hart.
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She murders a lover and gets sent to jail and it looks like she's going to be killed.
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She looks like she's going to be murdered for her actions other than the fact that people love a story.
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People love a spectacle and Roxy turns her life into a spectacle to basically get out of prison but also to become a star.
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um
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It's interesting because as I'm, as I was talking about this, as I was looking over the sheet, as we were preparing, just, it reminded me how the story is not far off from what
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we experience nowadays either.
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The people who have the most attention get the most access or get, get out of trouble as so much.
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But what about this story kind of is striking to you?
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Cause I guess it's not just the story of Roxy.
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It's primarily the story of Roxy and Velma and they're, kind of, they're both stuck in prison.
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Well, even just thinking to when this story was created, this was probably so cutting edge when it came out because you're featuring two, I mean, featuring a handful of women, but
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specifically those two doing, I mean, murder, right, or implied murder, which of course is scandalous.
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But just adding on, like, how many stories do we get with that perspective, where it's like mostly women, at least in that timeframe of shows?
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uh And what does that mean for the audiences who were taking it in for the first time when it first came out?
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And like you said, still kind of applicable to today, where...
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those with the means uh can kind of maneuver a system how they would like to, and those without are way less likely, I mean, there's a chance, but substantially less likely to
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succeed in whatever they're trying to do.
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uh But the sass...
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Um...
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I don't know, I just, I wish I could have been a fly on the wall, like the opening night that this show came out, because I'm sure people were like...
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kind of appalled, but in a good way.
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It makes you wonder, makes you wonder, because the original Broadway production opened in 1975, June 1975, ran for 936 performances and closed in August 1977.
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And it wasn't until the revival in 1996 that this show actually retook off again.
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So it makes you wonder, back in the 70s, this was probably incredibly scandalous.
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depending on how it was staged back then and stuff like that, or like costumes, but like...
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There's not much to the imagination in terms of the story, the set, this...
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what they're wearing on stage.
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I mean, you're right, that had to be completely just...
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some people probably had to be gagging, as the kids would say.
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Well, and we're so obviously in the generation of, technology and access to pretty much anything, right?
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We could just like Google it.
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And at that time, I think the equivalent like in the everyday would have been, you know, like a scandalous magazine.
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it's just...
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maybe some stuff on TV, but it was like you had to search for it.
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Cause this, mean, this is definitely not the most scandalous thing I've ever seen, but it's very similar to something like Moulin Rouge when it comes to costuming, a little bit
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more basic and less glitzy.
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But still, people coming to the theater and watching people on stage with like...
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minimal clothing and or very tight clothing, very sexual in nature innuendos overall, which was just like not.
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You didn't do that in public.
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So, I mean, I'm sure women were collecting their pearls.
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But if you take it even a step further, this is based off of a play from 1926, which is based off of two cases from 1924.
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Like, they probably were even more pearl clutching back in 1926 when a, granted, I'm sure it wasn't staged the same way.
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But to have a story such as this to be on, like in theater, had to be just completely such a game changer.
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I mean, were kind of the people behind us were definitely pro clutching, like in like an excited way while we were there.
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Like it was still like very.
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game thing of the word.
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It wasn't like risky, like risque, but like it was definitely something that you're just like, this is happening like on Broadway, you know?
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Yeah, and it's, I mean, I think that's where you can, of course, like, tell the age because it's, it's riding that line of, like, nowadays you see more scandalous things, but
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it still felt just a little bit edgy ah for that time period.
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And then, of course, just like the movement in general, and I know we'll talk more about
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music and dancing and such in part two, but the choreography really was a massive part of the narrative and of the plot and how the story was told because it was new and chic and
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very like, again, when we talk about scandalous, like people weren't, you weren't dancing like that, you were face-to-face, know, like classical.
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ballroom dancing.
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uh So again, it's like something you would have very much liked the setting of the play, something you would have like seen in the shadows and not on mainstream Broadway.
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think it's when you were talking about it before you even said it, I had the same thought of like, it's really hard to talk about Chicago in two parts.
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And I'll let you know listeners, we try very hard to split these up into two parts so that we can really dive deep into like the story and the characters and then everything else
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that makes up a show.
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But this one, like I think it makes sense as to why uh Bob Fosse's name is also on the book is just because it's really hard to peel off some of these layers.
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you said, the dancing is such an uh integral part of this.
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The songs are very...
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narrative heavy.
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Like the story without the songs and the dance is I can't imagine what the play is like, you know what mean?
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Like there's just it's not the same because it is kind of what makes Chicago, Chicago.
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And if we were to look at just the story...
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It's really hard to say, yes, it's still a spectacle, but it's not the spectacle that Chicago, why Chicago's still around.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Yeah, like, it was like...
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Well, and I am curious because the house was pretty full for the show that we went to, and obviously it's been running for a while.
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I am just curious what the draw is to it, because there were obviously people who knew exactly what Chicago was and or have been multiple times.
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And as someone who's just going for the first time, I'm just...
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interested in what makes people, what draws people to that story.
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So it makes me wonder if it's just because it's so outrageous.
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So, you know, obviously we haven't even made out the first little bit.
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Roxy murders somebody, goes to jail, decides that she needs to get herself out and hires Billy Flynn.
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Billy Flynn is a fast talking, sweet walking lawyer.
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But then like from that point on, it literally becomes absolutely ridiculous.
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We have a fake pregnancy.
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We have manipulating husbands.
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We have trying to trip each other up.
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in the prison to get the other but the other person have their court day sooner.
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Like it's literally I almost can't tell you what the show is about even though I know what the show is about because it's so fast paced and there's almost no time to breathe of the
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story.
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But also just the story is just so excuse my language fucking wild.
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It's like just it's such a wild story that you're like and another hill and another hill and like and you just get so wrapped up in that by the time you're done you're like and
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the show's over.
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You know?
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Yeah, a lot of twists and turns that...
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are assisted by, again, the music and uh dance because they just they quickly shift.
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mean, you're covering so much time in such a short period of time because it's not a long show.
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I mean, it's about average, but it's covering a lot.
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With minimal dialogue, it seems like there really isn't.
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There's like a couple lines song, a couple lines.
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song, which there are other shows like that as well, but for this one specifically, because of the plot, it makes it interesting.
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It reminds me again of chess where there was a character who was doing the dialogue while everybody else was just singing another.
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You wouldn't have been able to follow it without that little bit of dialogue, but you also, the songs could be just completely plucked out from the story and you wouldn't have
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like, it wouldn't have actually influenced anything.
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there's almost sorta kind of standalone songs.
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I don't know how to explain it.
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I feel like I'm just talking in circles.
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But it's one of those pieces where the is told through song, but the narratives are so wild that I couldn't picture it being a straight show.
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Yeah, I'd be very curious.
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I mean, obviously just all the songs probably would be acted out rather than dance.
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But I feel like that would be less powerful.
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Sure.
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With that then, who dominates the stage?
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We saw quite an eclectic combination of actors and actresses on the stage.
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Who dominated it in your opinion?
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you
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Thank you so much for your time.
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I would say Robin Herder, who played Velma, which I know she was a limited run for her or as it seems like most Broadway shows right now, but.
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um
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Yeah, I agree.
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Robin Herder was-
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like stupid, stupid good and her acting, her facial expressions just they were so loud and almost obnoxious but like it seemed appropriate for that show.
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Yeah, when you kind of look at the...
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When you look at her uh the list of shows she's been in and then you just realize that you apparently had seen her in another show So that was interesting But like seriously she was
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in the uh the first national tour of Spamalot as the understudy for Lady of the lake Which that makes sense.
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We just saw that role that wouldn't that role with those vocals makes sense um She was in Chicago multiple times
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ah But she was in Moulin Rouge, the original Moulin Rouge as Nini, which also makes sense.
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And that's where I saw her apparently.
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ah But she was in Smash.
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I think that was the one that we kind of talked about, is the fact that she was giving Megan Hilty vibes.
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And granted, she didn't play, she played the role that Megan Hilty played in the show, but there was just so many parallels seeing Robin on stage as Velma that it really did.
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It's like seeing a star, you know what I mean?
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It's different seeing an actor and seeing a star.
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uh
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Yeah, she just, I she, I don't know, she was just perfect for that role.
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Diva to the max, trying to slide by the court system and it just like not working out.
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um Yeah, they're just every piece of it.
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My eyes, I was constantly, if she was on stage, I mean, they were always on stage, but if she was front and center, um my eyes just like naturally were following her.
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And before we go to the one that I know we both want to talk about, I do want to throw out one more that I was slightly impressed with.
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Tam Mutu for Billy Flynn was also pretty darn good for that role.
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You think about it, you're playing a a suave, slick group.
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Like you're balancing the line between like suave and greasy like lawyer, you know what I mean?
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Like you're playing that you're toeing that line and just being like you're kind of a grease ball.
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You're kind of like a bad person.
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but you're also, people are just infatuated with you.
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And I did find myself drawn towards his performance for that reason, because it was just, again, a very full voice, a very interesting, like he had the look down pat, but he also
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just had like the greasiness to his performance and his voice that I did think that he did a really good job as Billy Flynn.
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He was very good.
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um I'm curious.
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I don't know if that's a role that they've been flexing in and out with people.
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um But I feel like that role could be played so many different ways.
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Like you could lean harder into kind of that suave or you could lean harder into being a jerk.
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Like it was an interesting balance and I'm sure people do it differently um for every.
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production, but it was good.
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I think that you're, I think there's a few roles in here that you really could flex in and out.
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um Obviously Velma and Roxy, um which I do think that I do, I'm going to mention it here.
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And this is, I hope that nobody shoots the messenger here, but um obviously we're supposed to suspend some belief for different characters.
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However, the role of Roxy, was really confused with how she was being portrayed and what was going on that.
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um
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That one was a little harder to land for me.
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uh Nothing against Kate Baldwin.
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I know that she is a fantastic actress.
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I don't know if that was the role for her.
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But to go back to Billy, you're right.
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I think that's one that you could easily slide in.
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that could be your...
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You're stunt casting, and very easily.
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That being said.
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we did go there for Alex Newell.
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That was kind of the drawing force of Chicago for us.
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um I don't think you were actually necessarily, you grew up on Glee like I did, though I know you that you've watched it.
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But to see Alex perform as
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a role as Mama Morton.
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That was just like a like
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That was like a, uh what's the word I'm looking for?
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Like check the box, you know what I mean?
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Like that was a dream role almost to see, or like not even just a dream role.
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I got to see Alex Newell on stage and not many people get to say that.
25:25
Yeah, mean, definitely was the draw for me as well.
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um I mean, I watched Glee, I was probably only like a year or two late to watching Glee, so I wasn't watching it in like real, real time, but I was watching it.
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um And then obviously post Glee, like I've just continued to see Alex.
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Obviously they've been in a bunch of shows and just done a lot.
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over the years and so to happen to be in town when they were in this show, um yeah, you just couldn't miss the opportunity to see them absolutely tear up the stage, which is
26:10
exactly what they did.
26:12
Absolutely.
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Like there was every time that they were in a scene, it was a scene stealer.
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Like that became the scene you wanted to see.
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You wanted to see more.
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I almost wish that there was more Mama Morton in the show because Alex Newwell's got the star power that everybody knows.
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I think right now that's one of the names that's pulling you in to go see Chicago.
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And actually by the time that this airs and even while the time that we're recording, Alex Newwell is no longer in the production.
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uh In fact, some of the, quite a few of the cast are turning over.
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but I mean, Alex Newell is who would have thought all those years ago watching Glee that we'd be looking up at stage.
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Do you know what mean?
26:54
Like that's such a weird, like serendipitous moment, but just kind of shows how talented they are.
27:01
Yeah, and I mean, of course, like the theater nerds always kind of find their way back to theater, right?
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Like even if they jumped from theater to TV and back to theater, uh which, yes, I mean, it was a loaded Glee week for us, uh kind of unintentionally, it just kind of happened that
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way.
27:24
But Alex just has...
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Whether it's originating a role or stepping into a role, their voice is so specific and so incredibly powerful.
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You're literally blown away in person.
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Highly recommend if you have the opportunity to see them sing live, even if it's not in a show, do it.
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because you're just like how, how, where does that voice even come from?
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How does that held in one person?
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I do want to talk before we let each other go off this episode just because this is such a huge ensemble piece But really there it's you know, while it's the story of Velma and Roxy
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yet.
28:10
There's two different layers to this question I think we need to talk about chemistry I don't think we talk about chemistry enough sometimes and so I'm gonna start throwing that
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back in there.
28:18
I Want I want to know your opinion on both the chemistry between Velma and Roxy but also between all the rest of the characters because This is the part that's
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is interesting to me when I saw the local production, the chemistry between Mama Morton and Velma was incredible.
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It felt like there was like a real mother daughter relationship going on there.
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And not that I didn't feel it in this one, but it felt like it wasn't like they had shortened that part of the story.
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And so I was like, it's interesting because Mama Morton always felt stern, like like like a mom that like I'm
28:55
disciplining you, but I'm also an I love you still kind of thing where I didn't get that from there.
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Untruly, the relationship was more put on to Roxy and Velma and their dynamics and the struggles that they have.
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And they did have pretty good chemistry between the two of them.
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So it's just kind of wondering what your opinion of this chemistry within the stage production is.
29:15
Yeah, I mean...
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Between Roxy and Velma, again, there's some...
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I struggled a little bit in regards to...
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doing the work mentally to kind of make those characters work in my head.
29:35
Having not seen this production in any other facet, some of it didn't make sense to me.
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uh
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And so...
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I could see how that relationship would feel more, if intense is the right word, or more formative, especially as someone who's like going into the jail uh completely unaware and
30:05
not sure what to expect.
30:07
And the same with uh Mama Morton and Velma.
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It was very, it felt...
30:16
you're slipping the guard at 20.
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You know what I mean?
30:18
Like, it didn't feel so motherly.
30:22
It just felt like, which literally, their song about, you know, do this for mama and mama will do for you, it felt way more like that.
30:31
It felt more transactional.
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It felt like the only way to get ahead is to pay or to know someone.
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And so that...
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part felt very played up, which then kind of lent itself to the rest of the entire ensemble because it was like, everybody's out for themselves.
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And it's a cutthroat world, ultimately, is kind of the way that I perceive that.
30:57
So what's interesting is that in the local production, the way I had read it and I didn't get in here, and that makes more sense, was that Mama Morton was like the...
31:06
She was like the person that had been in jail for years.
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You know what I mean?
31:10
Like that was never getting out and just was kind of leading this pack of women, but had connections on the outside, which that, was like in my head, I was like, I don't get it.
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But now when you're saying that, was like, my gosh, she's kind of like the warden.
31:22
And like that had completely slipped my mind because in the other one, that's what it felt like.
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was like...
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Mom will take care of you because I've been here forever and I still have those connections on the outside, but like I'm literally never leaving prison.
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I'm stuck here forever.
31:36
So it's interesting that that that's how like different that dynamic could be depending on what show or production you're watching or who is even on stage.
31:45
Yeah, I...
31:47
and that's just my assumptions, like I don't even know...
31:50
what the intention of the original character is.
31:55
um I think I assumed because of the word matron, Mama Morton, which obviously Mama is like a given.
32:08
um
32:10
But I'm not even sure that I'm doing some on the fly research right now and I can't even find where the explanation would be.
32:22
She is the matron or the warden of the Cook County Jail.
32:25
So she is the one, and it never crossed my mind that she's the one that's in charge of the prison.
32:31
Yeah, so she's like the warden.
32:33
um But again, talking about like corruption and like you're literally in a, this is literally your job, but you are playing favorites with the people that have money
32:48
basically.
32:50
Correct.
32:52
And that makes more sense for this dynamic that's on stage.
32:55
that's the...
32:57
Mama's literally just trying to line her pocket so she can live a life.
33:01
correct.
33:02
On that note, we're running out of time.
33:03
However, stay tuned for our part two of our Chicago discussion.
33:06
Thanks again for joining us here in our box seats until next curtain call.