Latest / Natural Resources University / Creating Wild Turkey Manager: Advanced Habitat | Wild Turkey Science #451

Transcript

Creating Wild Turkey Manager: Advanced Habitat | Wild Turkey Science #451 · Natural Resources University

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Welcome to Wild Turkey Science, a podcast made possible by Turkeys for Tomorrow.
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I'm Dr. Marcus Lashley, Professor of Wildlife Ecology at the University of Florida.
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And I'm Dr. Will Goolsby, Professor of Wildlife Ecology and Management at Auburn University.
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We're both lifelong hunters and devoted scientists who are passionate about hunting, managing,
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and researching wild turkeys.
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In this podcast, we'll explore turkey research, speak to the experts in the field, and address
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the difficult questions related to wild turkey ecology and management.
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Our goal is to serve as your connection to wild turkey science.
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Because every time we start the show, we're literally laughing.
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And I know that you guys had a lot of funny interactions through the process of filming
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these courses, so we thought it would be fun to have you on the show.
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So in case you both don't know, we're live now.
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For those out there listening, we're going to do this one a little differently.
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We asked Will to step away because we kind of got some incriminating things about him.
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I'm just kidding.
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But we do have some funny things that happened, even with Will, that you guys can share.
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So we have Zach Steele, Dr. Zach Steele, back with us.
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I think it's good for people to know that you haven't just been emailing folks, pestering
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them, that you've also been developing some really important stuff that people are really
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valuing.
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And then Dorothy, you go by Dot, is here with us.
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She has been behind the scenes and behind a lot of the social media stuff that you guys
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see if you're following us.
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A lot of the video footage and images and also one of your big accomplishments has been
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the editing and curating of our course that we've already launched.
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So thank you guys for coming to do this.
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And we're sad that Will wasn't here, but we're also kind of happy because I hear you've got
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some good stuff on him.
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We might have some dirt.
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We might.
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Yeah, well, so I would like to hear from your perspective, you know, what is this course
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that we have?
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I know we we have given our perspective on what that course is and what it entails and
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how valuable it is, but I'd like to hear it from your perspective, since you guys literally
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did the filming and editing and curation of the course.
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You know, what what do you think in terms of the resource that you've created?
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I guess describe that.
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You want to go first out or you want me to?
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I mean, I don't mind going first.
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Well, before we started filming it, I knew less than nothing about turkeys and habitat
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management.
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Even when I got this job, I didn't know anything about turkeys.
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And I feel like I've learned a lot, especially filming the course, I actually learned a ton
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about habitat management and about turkeys.
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And I think it's a really great resource for land managers.
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There's just such a variety of different content and different speakers in the course.
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While I was editing, I felt like every video I'd learn something new every few minutes.
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And especially and I really learned something new because I had to rewatch things the same
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video like 50 times to like cut little things.
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I really learned a lot.
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So the final cut of the course, how long is it like in terms of like just continuous footage?
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It's probably like 10 hours at least for the first one.
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Yeah, we cut out a chunk.
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So you can just imagine how many hours there was.
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So 10 hours times 50 at least, and probably another another 50 on that, I would bet certainly
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across many people as well.
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Lots of people were having to rewatch things and go through it and real challenge.
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But that's the thing as well.
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Because even when I watch pieces of it now, I feel like I still learn new things despite
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having watched it.
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Like however many hundred times also like learn a new thing like, oh, with like burning
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and the different plant coverage and the canopies coverage for the poults and what kind of plants
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you should plant and predator management or all that kind of stuff.
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There's just like so much.
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Yeah, it's I think it's really good, valuable resource for land managers.
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And there's not really anything else like it out there, which is pretty cool that we
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got to pioneer this.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Very cool.
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Zach, do you want to add anything?
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Yeah.
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Sure.
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So I remember when I first started this position back in like August of twenty, twenty four.
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And Marcus, you describing like what your vision was for this course.
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I remember it was kind of hard in my head to like, like actually think, oh, wow, we're
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actually going to going to make this happen.
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It just seems so expansive and like such an undertaking that it was it was really intimidating.
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And then it obviously helped a lot when we brought that on to the team, because now all
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of a sudden we've got an expert who's done a lot of this kind of stuff before.
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So it's like, OK, we've got our person now who can really help us to make this make this
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a reality.
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And then I was really involved with a lot of the coordinating side of things because
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I love to annoy people by email.
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That's kind of my passion.
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So I was reaching out to all the different folks who we were going to get to film with.
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But then another big component of this course was reaching out to landowners and then also
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people working at state agencies to kind of talk with them and have these hour long discussions
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where we get their input about what they wanted out of the course, because I think a mistake
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that a lot of people make sometimes is they develop a course based on what they think
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is best for the course without actually speaking to the people who would be taking that course
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and getting an understanding of what they're expecting out of the course.
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So we made a lot of significant changes to how we plan things out.
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And then on the back end, how we edited things based on those conversations that we had with,
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I think, eight to 10 landowners and then folks who are working for state agencies.
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So that was a big component of how I was involved.
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And I definitely want to give those eight to 10 individuals a shout out for making the
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time to have those conversations with us, because that was hugely beneficial into kind
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of how we shaped and formed the course.
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Yeah.
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So, and you said when, so basically before we started recording anything during the planning
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process, you had these, I guess, conversations with people and those were private landowners
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or managers and also state agency practitioners.
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And, you know, the whole point was to see what do they want the course to contain, which
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topics are important, which topics are something that aren't very important to them.
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And I can remember, you know, we, our initial vision, the course was essentially twice as
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long as what got cut.
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And it was because of that feedback, like basically those people that we wanted, you
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know, we wanted this to be a resource that would help people in any situation that they
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might be in as a manager.
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So whether that be a private landowner that, you know, has been managing their property
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for turkeys, but needs, you know, some advanced direction and how to do that better or state
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agency, you know, that they're managing WMAs or working with private landowners.
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Did you have any other groups represented in that or?
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No, that pretty much sums it up.
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Okay.
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So the initial course, the one that's live now was really based on that feedback.
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We kind of whittled it down to this 10, 11-hour course that has field management, food plots,
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forest management, forest stand improvement, prescribed burning, predator management tactics.
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We also had, one of the things I'm most excited about and still am and have learned even myself
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from was having our expert managers that go and work with landowners all over the place.
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So we had those case studies.
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Yeah.
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And that's, if I can jump in real quick, Marcus, that was one of the big things that we got
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from those conversations was how much people wanted direct examples that they could really
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take from.
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And that's why we really incorporated those three case studies and made such an emphasis
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out of that because that's what they talked about a lot in their previous experience going
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through courses online was struggling to understand directly how to apply some of what they've
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learned.
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And they're like, if we have specific examples that show, okay, this is what the land looked
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like before.
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This is what the land looked like after by doing these steps.
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That's where we're going to get the most out of a course.
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Right.
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So and that's what the case studies and we did, we ended up doing three, which I guess
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originally I was going to do one, but we decided to get Craig Harper, who has worked with landowners
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all over the nation.
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He's known for that.
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We got Dwayne Elmore also very experienced and especially in the Midwest.
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Then we got Will Goolsbee.
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And since he's not here, I'll say something kind about him, but I would never do this
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if he was on here with us.
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You know, like he works with landowners all the time, is very knowledgeable about that,
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especially in the southeastern U.S., you know, and he and I sometimes even do that
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together.
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So I knew those guys have tons of experience in different contexts, making management plans
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for private landowners, and they would have some really good examples to kind of lay out
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all of the things that we're talking about in the course and then put them into a context
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where they show how they applied all those things and then how the landscape changed
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over time.
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But ultimately, what did that mean for turkeys?
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How did it change the amount of turkeys and the hunting experience and huntability of
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the property and that sort of thing?
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And I just I found that so valuable, even for me, you know, like I do this for a living
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and have been for a long time and go work with private landowners constantly helping
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them do this.
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And I still gained a lot from it.
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So I think, you know, that was something I was really excited about when we were about
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to launch, you know, because I had to go through it in kind of with a fine tooth comb as well.
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And, you know, I just learned a lot from it.
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I was like, man, this this is pretty powerful stuff.
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So I'm glad you guys were in the, you know, in the wheelhouse making it crank, so to speak,
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and still are.
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Yeah.
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So we'll link the course if you haven't had a chance to take it.
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We'll link it for you.
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But we know a lot of people have taken it.
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And the feedback.
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I mean, Zach, you're you're you're the one tracking all this.
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I mean, the feedback so far has been pretty stellar, I would say.
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Yeah.
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People people seem to be really benefiting from the course and really appreciative that
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this is available because, you know, before this, like it was kind of hard to define resources
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if you were looking for some additional support in terms of learning more about how you can
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manage your land for wild turkeys.
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Yeah, there's just some some stupid podcast.
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But other than yeah, people are tired to listen to you and will you will all the time.
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So they're like, we need something else.
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So we had to get these other experts in here to give them some extra information.
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Yeah.
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Well, that was kind of the vision, you know, originally when I started thinking about this
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and this came from listener feedback and and, you know, viewer feedback for the game lab.
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People were asking for more and more and more and it's like, man, we just like the more
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podcasting we do, the more people want more and the more we put, you know, do these informational
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videos and things online, the more people want and people are asking for it.
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And that's why we did it.
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Yeah.
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We got like a ton of questions on social media.
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I remember like when I first started, like between Facebook and Instagram and YouTube,
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like we just couldn't keep up with everything and we needed like something that was like
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a centralized form of information.
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Yeah.
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Well, and I also, you know, from my viewpoint, I commonly work on habitat management and
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all these different sectors, but I also know that we have a bunch of experts out there
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that are the best there is.
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And that, you know, I have a good relationship with those people and, you know, the habitat,
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the people that specialize on habitat, there's a relatively small community in academia,
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especially when you narrow it down to game species and even more so when you narrow it
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down to turkeys.
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And, you know, that was really what I thought.
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This shouldn't just be me or even a small group of folks from UF.
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We need to go and try to get the who's who, so to speak, of the game habitat management
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world and, you know, that's what ended up happening.
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Everybody we asked to do it dissipated.
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So, you know, it's pretty cool.
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Yeah.
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And just, I guess, to add to that, to the part that gets complicated is all these experts,
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you know, have a lot of other undertakings and involved in a lot of different stuff.
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So trying to lasso them up to sit down just to record for two or three hours is a lot
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more difficult than than you might think.
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So kind of planning this out, especially since we're traveling to different locations across
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the country was a little complicated.
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Yeah.
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Well, I was going to ask you about that.
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I kind of wanted to go there because a lot of people say the product at the end, but
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there also has been interest in how, I guess, the making.
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So this is about the making of the course.
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So you guys, particularly the two of you, and I did it once or twice, and then maybe
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some other people traveled once or twice even, but you two were doing the majority of traveling
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and you were actually going to the speaker.
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They're like, you went to Auburn to talk to Will, right?
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Or film him.
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We didn't want to, but we did.
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We did everything we could to try to get him to come somewhere else and he would not do
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it.
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Even when he did come somewhere else, he still wouldn't film me.
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Had to go all the way to Auburn.
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We were all in the same place.
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Before that, we could have done it then.
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Yeah.
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We did.
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We did.
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We had the best meals of our lives when we went to Auburn.
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I was going to say the same thing.
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I was like, we did have very nice food in Auburn.
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So it worked out.
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That's a good recommendation.
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Okay.
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So where all did you go?
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We went to Auburn.
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We went to Mississippi State.
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We went to Tennessee.
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Me and you did, Marcus.
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We went to Oklahoma State.
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We went to Quincy, Florida.
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We went to, oh gosh, how do you say Duane's?
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I don't know.
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He said it for us.
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And I was like, oh man, I'm not going to remember that.
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It's like Jockin, Jockin, Jockin, Georgia, something like that.
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If you're from Jockin, Georgia, leave us a comment.
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Oh man.
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Well, Duane's going to leave a comment and be like, I told you, Zach, how to say it and
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you forgot, you big dummy.
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Actually, we went to Tennessee twice because we went the one time I went with him.
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So we were actually in Tennessee twice.
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You mean the convention and then we went back to Craig.
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Yeah.
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We filmed there twice.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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So I want both of you to answer this.
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Since you brought up food, where did you have the best meal?
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And I want each of you to answer that because I know you didn't both go to every location.
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I'm actually curious to hear what Zach has to say.
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Oh, see, you shouldn't, you shouldn't say that because you actually missed out on the
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best meal.
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We went to Craig's, Craig made us like, I think so too, he makes like a 10 course meal.
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Like there was so many parts where I was like, well, that's gotta be the end of it.
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And then he'd bring out even more delicious stuff and like, oh man, like I'm the kind
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of person who I can eat for days.
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So like he just kept bringing more stuff and I was like, no, I just keep this stuff coming.
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This is incredible.
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Like we had, we had tuna, we had deer, we had turkey.
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But it wasn't just deer, it was coos deer.
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Yeah.
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It was like very like rare once in a lifetime kind of deer, you're like, this is awesome.
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These giant tuna steaks, we had chocolate cake.
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Oh my God.
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I still think about that meal every once in a while.
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Did he have, he had turkey strips that he grilled in that too, didn't he?
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Yeah.
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Oh man, they were.
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So yeah, there were so many different things.
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That was really good.
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I'm very sad.
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I missed that.
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On like my American food journey, I feel like that would have been.
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Oh, that was homemade too.
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And when Mr. Issa starts making stuff, I mean, whatever it is, that's the best version you've
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ever had of it.
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Very sad I missed that.
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What is the name of the restaurants in Auburn?
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Because I think like, as far, we ate so much takeout, oh my word.
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I remember Zach and I even said to each other, we were like, we like just never want to see
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takeout again because we're just on the road all the time.
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Like takeout and hotel breakfast buffet food.
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Yeah.
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What was the name of that place in Auburn?
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Because I actually think that was the Nass' takeout.
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Gosh, I wish I could remember.
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It's in my notes somewhere because yeah, I remember Will gave us the two recommendations.
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It's like this little boutique restaurant.
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You guys need to remember because they promised us a kickback if we put people on it.
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I'm just kidding.
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Yeah.
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So that food was really good.
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What did you eat?
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Like what kind of food was it?
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It was just like a toasted sandwich and I had tomato soup with mine.
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It was very basic, but it was delicious.
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It was like a bacon jam toasted cheese thing.
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Was it called Acre?
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Was Acre the name?
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I think it was Acre.
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Acre is a well-known establishment in Auburn that sounds like it.
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You know, fun fact, I was visiting with a landowner in Alabama, not that county, other
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side of the state, but he had smoked turkey for me, just for supper when I came to visit.
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And he had some barbecue sauce from Acre or whatever the full name is.
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And it was like, man, that was so good.
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The turkey plus the sauce from there, it was very good stuff.
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It really was delicious.
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And I'm glad we were in such a rush that day.
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I'm so glad we waited for the food because we needed to get on the road because we were
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driving back to Florida and we called the order in and it was worth the wait.
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It was virtually good.
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Yeah.
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Their fried okras.
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Yes.
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That was the first time I ever had okra and it was nuts.
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Oh, was it like the barbecue okra?
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No, it was just like normal fried okra, but it was, oh, it was heavy.
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Yeah.
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I love okra of all kinds.
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Yeah.
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Oof.
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Good stuff.
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Yeah.
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Well, what about, uh, in terms of your interactions with everybody, like, did you have any funny
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interactions when you were filming the Habitat stuff?
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So many.
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All the bloopers I edited out were just, I would, every now and then I would just laugh
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and be like, oh, I forgot.
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I forgot that this was actually, especially you two, when we were filming here at UF,
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like listening to your bloopers.
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It was you and Zach together because you just like play off each other's energy.
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And then the one starts laughing and the other one starts laughing and then it just takes
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us like 15 minutes to get started.
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To get five seconds of good footage.
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That's funny.
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Wait, maybe we can do a blooper reel from the game lab.
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I don't know if we can air the bloopers from that day.
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I don't know if we can air that.
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It'll just end up being a whole turkey gobble.
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Yeah, it's pretty much.
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What I guess when you were filming with people, was there, were there any other like funny
23:03
interactions where like people just kept having bloopers or like you had equipment malfunctions
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or, you know, what kinds of things were happening like that?
23:15
There was one.
23:16
I mean, you were there for Marcus, like when we were filming with Craig and I think it
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was like we were like three hours in at this point.
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So like, I totally understand, but like he was starting to lose his voice and you could
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tell it was like making him more angry, like he was getting mad at himself that he was
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just listening to his voice.
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So he kept trying to like drink more water and like miraculously get his voice back,
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but like it wasn't happening.
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So I think we just like took a break for an hour and like had lunch and then got back
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into it afterwards and it was fine.
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But you could tell on his face, he was like, man, I'm so annoyed with this right now.
23:50
Yes.
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Yeah, it was pretty intense.
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So I think quite a few people for this one, well, quite a few people contributed two modules.
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So there's at least two hours roughly for each person.
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Some of those, if you've taken the course, you didn't see the person twice because they
24:16
also did a module that they're contributing to the other course that's in development
24:20
currently.
24:21
Right.
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So but yeah, I remember with Craig, you know, anybody that's gone through this has seen
24:29
both of those, but he started getting that dry throat, which I guess maybe it was because
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there's, you know, the humidity was low enough to burn.
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And we know that because Zach and I ended up doing a bunch of prescribed burning while
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we were up there.
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So that was pretty cool.
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Yeah, that was you also played a good joke on me that day, too.
24:50
You tricked me.
24:51
We were I was trying to get all this cool footage of Marcus burning stuff.
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And like I'm locked in on getting this like really high quality footage.
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And Marcus is like, man, the fire is moving so slow right now that if you zoom in right
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there, Zach, you can see this caterpillar that's outpacing the fire.
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And I'm like zooming in desperately trying to find this.
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It's like, where's the caterpillar?
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I was like, I want to get this caterpillar running away from the fire.
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And Marcus is like, there's no, there's no caterpillar, Zach.
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Like I'm just messing with you.
25:23
That's so funny.
25:24
That was hilarious.
25:25
I hope you still have that footage somewhere.
25:29
Oh, we've got it.
25:30
Oh, if you had told me to, I would have still been looking for that caterpillar.
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I was sure it was there.
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I was filming him when I told him that and then he's like, you know, trying to or no,
25:43
you were filming.
25:44
Yeah, I was filming it.
25:45
You were filming.
25:46
And I said that to him and he's like, looking around for this caterpillar.
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And then finally, I'm like, there's not a caterpillar.
25:54
But I was trying to emphasize how slow the fire was moving.
25:58
I mean, you know, we're burning up on hardwoods and we were using firing techniques that,
26:03
you know, they're definitely not going to damage the overstory.
26:06
And that's the whole point.
26:07
Right.
26:08
And I was trying to emphasize that, but, you know, Zach jumped on it, hook, line, sinker.
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So yeah, we have some, some cool video that we were, we have a couple of how to burn burning
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videos for burning and up on hardwoods that we're working on to put on YouTube from that.
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And I think people, you know, I get a lot of questions about burning and up on hardwoods.
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So kind of, you know, and so does Craig.
26:37
So it motivated us while we were burning to cut some good footage and talk through what
26:44
we're doing strategically, what kind of conditions we're burning in and, and what the firing
26:49
techniques are to make sure that, you know, we're, we're not putting overstory trees in
26:56
danger and also accomplishing our objective with, with the burn.
27:00
So, but yeah, I forgot about that.
27:03
That was hilarious.
27:06
So also a really great experience for you to, you know, to get some prescribed burning
27:10
experience in that, that system.
27:13
So pretty good.
27:15
I think we may have used some of the B-roll in the, the, the course when, you know, that
27:22
was primarily your role when you were doing the editing.
27:27
I think that's another valuable thing that's unique about the course is it's not just filming
27:32
folks sitting around a computer doing a presentation.
27:36
There's some footage related to that and you see slides that they're using to emphasize
27:41
points, but you're also using footage that, you know, you took in the field or that they
27:47
took in the field to kind of show people what they're talking about at a given point in
27:54
the, in the presentation.
27:55
Yeah.
27:56
And I think that it's because it's footage that we took or that other people have taken
28:00
in the field.
28:01
Like it's, it's not necessarily stock footage.
28:04
It's like real life practical footage is what also makes the course so valuable.
28:09
Yeah.
28:10
So you can visualize some of the things that people were talking about.
28:15
So really cool.
28:16
Yeah.
28:17
It might be worth just describing like what the like setup looked like for a lot of these
28:22
sessions too.
28:23
When we were filming this like that, I don't know if you want to touch about touch on all
28:27
the equipment that we needed.
28:29
Cause we'd walk into a room sometimes to film with somebody and they'd be like, you guys
28:32
brought all this, like they were getting ready for us to like put makeup on and stuff.
28:36
They're like, man, this is some like Hollywood stuff right here.
28:40
Yeah.
28:41
Yeah.
28:42
Craig did not want to wear the blush like he's like, this is a hard no, guys.
28:50
Yeah.
28:52
I think a lot of people weren't expecting that kind of set up.
28:55
Almost every single time when they walked in there, they were like, Whoa, when they
28:59
like saw the lights and the camera and like the microphone, it's like, I just got a little
29:04
bit nervous.
29:05
Like, I don't know what's going on here.
29:07
Yeah.
29:08
Exactly.
29:09
Yeah.
29:10
We, we'd have like a lighting setup.
29:12
We had our camera, tripods, microphones, and we traveled with all this stuff as well.
29:17
So I mean, I was there to help, but poor Zach was actually carrying like.
29:23
You want to tell the NWTF one dot?
29:28
That's exactly what I thought of.
29:29
That's why I laughed.
29:31
So we, we go to NWTF and the convention in Nashville, sorry, the convention in Nashville.
29:39
And we were filming with some guests there and we get there and we drove, we drove up
29:44
there.
29:45
So we are busy unloading the car and we asked the bell door person, can they help us like
29:53
with the equipment?
29:54
And they're like, sure.
29:55
It's $25.
29:56
If you're with a convention, it's $25 to like, help you take it down to whatever you need.
30:03
And me being the cheapskate that I am, I was like, $25, we're not going to, we can just
30:09
carry this stuff.
30:10
And I'm pretty sure Zach was standing there like, let's just put $25, and I was like,
30:16
we can do this.
30:17
We can carry it.
30:18
So I made us carry all this equipment.
30:21
I wish someone took a video of us, but yeah, we carried the C stands, the lights, the soft
30:28
boxes, cameras, tripods, a very far distance.
30:34
These big Pelican cases and stuff.
30:36
This was before we had the Pelican cases.
30:39
So since we got the Pelican cases, just carry around these giant, like what almost looks
30:48
like like the bar you use when you're bench pressing.
30:51
Like I'm carrying those around like this luxury hotel.
30:56
And the funny part was like this guy who was super nice was basically like, Hey, like there's
31:01
a shortcut if I like take you to the side of the hotel, like that'll get you real quick
31:05
to the convention.
31:06
We're like, Oh heck yeah.
31:07
Like just, just shuttle us over there.
31:09
So he drops us off and we go through the side entrance and we're like, wait a second.
31:13
I don't think this, this is a shortcut.
31:16
And it actually took us to like a lower area where we had to carry everything up, like
31:20
all these flights of stairs.
31:23
It was not a shortcut.
31:24
No.
31:25
Yeah.
31:26
Oh man.
31:27
But yeah, we look so goofy carrying all this equipment and everything was like banging
31:30
against the walls and like, Oh my God.
31:33
Like by the time we finally got it set up, we were like drenched in sweat.
31:37
Yeah.
31:38
We were, we were pretty tired.
31:39
So there was a, it was quite a setup.
31:41
There was a lot of equipment and it went everywhere with us.
31:46
I was very happy when we got, and I'm sure Zach was too, when we got our big Pelican
31:50
case.
31:51
Yes.
31:52
It made things a lot easier.
31:54
Yeah.
31:55
And it was, it was also nice, you know, the convention is a gathering place, I guess,
32:00
for a lot of the folks that we wanted to record.
32:04
And also the guys that, you know, with NWTF had some rooms set aside and they let us use,
32:11
you know, one of their recording studios that they, or I guess just a recording room that,
32:17
that we made into a studio with the stuff.
32:20
And you know, it was nice kind of having that, that opportunity to record.
32:27
So and then I was thinking back, a lot of the people that we recorded there are actually
32:32
going to be contributing modules to the other course, right?
32:36
So I think that would be one thing we, we have up till now, largely been talking about
32:42
the Habitat course that's already live that people can sign up for right now, but we have
32:46
another course that's complimentary that we already have recorded the footage for.
32:54
So can you guys talk about, you know, what, what's the difference in them?
32:58
What's what are you going to have in that course?
33:02
So the other course is going to get in a lot of ways into some of the historical side of
33:06
things a lot more into the actual like hunting approaches side of things.
33:13
I'll be in the other course talking about human dimensions, if anybody cares about that,
33:18
get excited.
33:20
So yeah, it's coming at things from more of like an introductory kind of standpoint.
33:26
Like if you're getting started in the Turkey world, like this course is a little bit more
33:31
geared towards you, whereas the course that's live now is more geared towards, you know,
33:36
people who are looking for those tips who are already managing their land and trying
33:40
to make improvements to really get more turkeys on their land.
33:45
Yeah I think the one we have out now is very like hands on practical.
33:49
Like if you want to get started, this is what you need.
33:52
And then the second course is, as you as you said, Zach, complimentary, right?
33:56
So if the first one really interested you and you want more and you want to dive a little
34:02
bit deeper, yeah, that's what the second course is.
34:07
Yeah, so with the second one, I think that was a great way to describe it.
34:15
I don't know that I would necessarily say it's introductory overall, but it has like
34:22
the history of wild turkeys, like what happened with wild turkeys, the history of the restoration
34:28
efforts we even, I was trying to think, cause I think I was there while we were recording.
34:35
So who, do you guys want to?
34:37
Is David Hawley.
34:40
So David Hawley was one of them.
34:42
So he's from Mossy Oak and he and I grew up in the same town.
34:46
I don't even know if you guys knew that.
34:47
Did we talk about that?
34:48
Yeah, we did.
34:49
Yeah, you did mention that.
34:50
Yeah, we were a little bit of an age gap, I'm a little older than he is, but we knew
34:54
each other well and you know, we've, we've all, our families have always known each other.
35:00
But yeah, so he talks some about the history and also about hunting tactics and goes through,
35:07
you know, and I think he even, he may have brought up the story to you guys, but when
35:13
he was, I think he was 13 or 14 years old, he went on to, what was it?
35:20
The Tonight Show.
35:21
I think it was David Letterman.
35:23
Yeah.
35:24
David Letterman.
35:25
So yeah, he went on that show to showcase calling, you know, even at that young age.
35:31
So it's like just to me, one of those people that's just really gifted, you know, and I'm
35:37
sure a lot of that came from practice and his, his intense passion for wild turkeys.
35:42
But we wanted to try to capture some of that knowledge and energy from him.
35:46
And he, he was more than happy to jump on and, and help us.
35:51
And he was one of them that recorded there, but who else did you record there?
35:55
It was Brent.
35:56
Yeah.
35:57
Brent Rogers.
35:58
Yeah.
35:59
So, so Gobble Gitter, I think is what he goes by online.
36:07
So Brent, you know, is one of those people that is just passionate about wild turkeys
36:12
and he's kind of a, I don't want to say amateur because he's so good at it, but he's like
36:20
a historian, but that's not his profession, what I mean.
36:23
Yeah.
36:24
It was like, I was so surprised when he was like, oh, this is just kind of like a hobby
36:27
that I do.
36:28
I actually like have another job.
36:30
I was like, oh, you're.
36:32
He has all this awesome, like historical stuff that he's collected, just like writings and,
36:41
you know, different objects and things from all this era and, and, you know, hearing him
36:46
talk through the history of all turkeys is pretty, pretty incredible.
36:52
So yeah.
36:55
But we also have other parts of it.
36:57
Like we have some things about the biology of turkeys and ecology of turkeys that are
37:03
going to go into this course, you know, that are, you know, just things that are important
37:10
to understand and interesting to know about turkeys.
37:13
You know, the, the role that hunting has played in the conservation of the species, just basic,
37:20
more basic biological things like, you know, the mating system and, and population of related
37:30
things, you know, things related to their physiology, what, what other, what am I missing
37:36
in here?
37:37
What, what else is going to go into that course?
37:39
Yeah.
37:40
And did you mention like the, going through the different subspecies, cause yeah, Brandon
37:46
are contributing that.
37:48
Two of our PhD students that are working on wild turkeys and doing, helping us a lot with
37:53
the extension here, put together some, some subspecies profiles and talked about that.
38:02
Yeah.
38:03
So, you know, I, I think it's pretty cool to have this, you know, the idea, I guess,
38:13
was to be completely comprehensive, but also not have it be 40 hours long.
38:21
So we split it and that's kind of the, how we decided to split it was, and that was based
38:26
on that feedback you were talking about, Zach, from, from folks.
38:30
They really wanted it to be management centric.
38:34
And we, so we split it to have one that's really management centric and one that's more
38:38
geared toward understanding how, you know, the history of turkeys, the importance of
38:45
hunters, the funding model.
38:49
That was another thing that's in there.
38:50
Like how are we funding conservation, the role that hunters are playing in that.
38:56
Hunting 101, like, what do you need to go hunting?
38:59
Here's some strategy and tactics and, and how to, to use calls and that sort of thing.
39:06
So, you know, very complimentary forces.
39:10
Yeah.
39:11
So I know when, uh, when we were filming Brent, I was in there watching and it was just like
39:18
one thing after another, after another, like he was just saying stuff and I was like, as
39:23
an enthusiast, I was glued to it, you know, and he, uh, he's done a couple of really cool
39:29
works recently.
39:30
He, he did some work with mossy oak, you know, that, uh, people have seen with some of the
39:36
historical things they've been doing and yeah, just so knowledgeable about all that.
39:41
Yeah.
39:42
His section of the course was really super interesting.
39:44
I mean, as someone like who didn't really know anything about turkeys, it was really
39:49
cool to learn all that about turkeys, um, from him.
39:54
It was very engaging and interesting.
39:56
I'm excited to put that out in part two.
40:00
Yeah.
40:01
I got a lot out of both his and David's and we also learned about David's secret talent
40:07
where he's actually one of the best impersonators on the planet.
40:10
He was doing some impersonations that were better than some people in Hollywood.
40:15
I was like, wow.
40:16
It was so fun to film with him.
40:19
He was doing David Attenborough and it was like, David was like in the room with us.
40:23
Yeah.
40:24
That was crazy.
40:25
I didn't even know that, you know, even though I, I grew up in the same town with him, uh,
40:31
I didn't know that he was that, that skilled.
40:34
Yeah.
40:35
He had all of us laughing.
40:39
Yeah.
40:40
Yeah.
40:41
So who, who else is contributing to that?
40:45
That course, I know, I think I'm going to have, uh, a contribution in it.
40:52
And did Carolina Baruzzi also, Carolina and Colter as well.
40:56
I think Colter has one in there, Colter Chitwood and then Mark McConnell has one in there,
41:03
right?
41:04
Yup.
41:05
So we also had Mark Turner, but it took me a minute.
41:07
I think Mark Turner's contributions are both in the habitat or the management centric one.
41:13
Yup.
41:14
So, yeah, really cool and, uh, really awesome to watch it develop and come to fruition and
41:23
now to be getting feedback on it, you know, with the first one, at least.
41:27
So, yeah, that was really cool to, to watch this all come and I appreciate all the hard
41:32
work from you guys.
41:33
I think a lot of people out there do, so it's, it's nice to, to give you guys a platform
41:38
to talk about that experience.
41:39
Yeah, it was, it was really fun, um, doing it.
41:43
Like if I look back on it and reflect on it, it was really cool experience.
41:47
And it's actually crazy to think that we did all the filming in like two months.
41:51
Cause I remember like we were talking about it in December and it was like, yo, we're
41:55
going to do this and this and this.
41:56
And I'm like, okay, but January is next month.
42:00
And January came and it's like, okay, you guys are flying here, driving here.
42:05
And we did it.
42:06
We got it done in like two months, the filming.
42:09
And then we edited it.
42:10
And yeah, I think we, we made a really cool thing.
42:14
Yeah.
42:15
Yeah.
42:16
We, we had some big time assist from people along the way.
42:19
Like there's a lot of folks were super appreciative to like your buddy, Chris, Mark Marcus, um,
42:25
he was super kind to us, him and his entire family.
42:28
Um, they did a ton of stuff for us while we were out there.
42:31
We got to go hunting on their property, which was really, really cool.
42:35
Um, and then obviously Craig, um, let us stay over there and made us delicious meals.
42:40
Um, there was just a lot of, yeah, and David gave both of us, um, a call, which was really
42:47
cool as well.
42:48
Um, so yeah, there's just so many moments that I look back on and I'm like, wow, I really
42:53
appreciate, um, that we had this opportunity and that people were willing to step up and
42:58
help us and do so many kind things for us.
43:01
Yeah.
43:02
Yeah.
43:03
And people were really, um, very kind and very like welcoming and it was, it was so
43:09
cool to meet everyone and get, yeah, to have this experience.
43:14
Everyone was really great.
43:16
Yeah.
43:17
That's cool.
43:18
Well, one, one last thing that, that I thought about, you know, we've gotten some feedback.
43:24
Do you, do you know, Zach, like what some of those sentiments are?
43:29
And also the other question, I was just curious if you have a sense for how much acreage is
43:35
being affected so far.
43:38
Um, I'd have to double check to see like what the, the acreage is.
43:43
I don't have that off the top of my head.
43:45
Um, but yeah, like a lot of the sentiments have just been, you know, there's a lot of
43:49
things in the course, um, that I think people hadn't really put too much thought into, like,
43:55
especially when you get into like the pathogen side of things.
43:58
Um, that's something that, um, I think a lot of landowners are a little unfamiliar with.
44:03
So they've really benefited from learning about, um, those kinds of topics that, um,
44:08
you really have to dive into if you're going to, you know, get a deeper understanding of
44:12
that.
44:13
So that was, um, a really good module that TJ and Sam put together, um, and then some
44:18
of the stuff on, you know, the, the predator management side of things and, you know, emphasizing
44:23
that habitat management in a lot of ways is predator management.
44:26
Um, so yeah, a lot of the feedback we've gotten is just on, you know, you guys shed light
44:32
on things that I hadn't considered as much, um, in my own research or talking to the people
44:38
that I value in terms of improving my, my land management.
44:41
Yeah.
44:42
And even for me, like, you know, having, having, uh, the population management sections,
44:54
I guess, like I was thinking about Anna Mueller, what she contributed, like she, uh, like her
45:03
whole, her, uh, research program is on how to monitor populations better.
45:11
She works with turkeys as part of that.
45:13
Uh, but you, you know, just talking about a plan for how you can monitor your success
45:18
and your population status on your, on your land, like there's so much in, in it, this,
45:25
it's even hard for me to think through all the things that are in it, honestly.
45:29
I know, uh, you know, you guys have, have talked about that in the past, it was a pretty
45:34
overwhelming project to, to see to fruition, but.
45:39
But we did it and we're like, here's all our goals and it's live and people are taking
45:47
it, which is so cool and so exciting.
45:49
People are learning from it.
45:51
Yeah.
45:52
Please take the surveys on there.
45:53
That's for Zach.
45:54
Well, not just me and Nesha, Nesha had a lot to do with that.
45:58
Yeah.
45:59
Her PhD program is on, is, uh, utilizing that information as well.
46:02
So yeah.
46:03
Yeah.
46:04
We're getting a lot of good stuff out of that.
46:06
And yeah, I also want to just throw into like the amount of time that Dot had to put up
46:11
with me in the car.
46:12
So I'm, I'm very grateful for Dot for not throwing me out the window at some point.
46:17
Cause we listened to a lot of my weird podcasts that, that I enjoy.
46:21
Um, and I'm into more of the like scary story stuff.
46:24
So we were doing some late drives with these terrifying stories playing.
46:28
Um, and then I'm into mostly like rock and metal.
46:31
So Dot was putting up with my music too.
46:34
So props to you Dot.
46:36
That did remind me of one thing.
46:38
Can you describe what your ride back from Tennessee was like with me?
46:43
Okay.
46:44
So I've been in the car with people who love a band before, but I've never been in the
46:50
car with someone who loves a band.
46:51
Like Marcus Lowe's ACDC, like we probably listened to maybe 38 straight ACDC songs and
46:59
every single one of the next songs, Marcus is like, Oh, this song is going to change
47:03
your life.
47:04
And then he would be belt in that song and the top of his lungs, know every lyric.
47:08
And then we get to the end and he'd be like, what'd you think about that one, man?
47:11
It was incredible.
47:12
Right?
47:13
I was like, there has to be a point where the, the songs aren't as good as the last
47:17
one, but he's that passionate about every single one.
47:21
Well, that came from a discussion.
47:24
I, now I can't remember where it was and what we were talking about, but I just was like,
47:30
you know, we were, we got on greatest rock and roll bands.
47:34
And I was like, well, I think it's hard to compete with ACDC because they have platinum
47:38
records in four different decades.
47:40
And, uh, you know, we went back and forth and then Zach was like, all right, let's let's
47:46
hear the playlist.
47:48
And we literally did not run out of songs for the entire drive all the way from Knoxville
47:53
back to Gainesville, which I think is pretty impressive.
47:56
Yeah.
47:57
Yeah.
47:58
And we were, it was definitely getting us pumped up because we were making really good
48:01
time getting home too.
48:02
We were flying and you were like, uh, I think there was like one song that you're like,
48:09
yeah, that one wasn't so good, but the other one's pretty good songs.
48:11
Well, and the one song was there like joke song that they put out or whatever.
48:15
Yeah.
48:16
It was like a spoof, uh, but overall it was pretty, pretty decent experience, you know?
48:24
Yeah.
48:25
That's one of my words.
48:26
Cause I think before we started playing and I was like, yeah, they've got like eight or
48:28
nine pretty good songs.
48:30
And then we were on song 30 and I was like, all right, well, I guess I'm wrong here.
48:37
One other thing, like on YouTube, when we were looking at them, I was trying to, I forgot
48:42
what the number was, but it wasn't like 18 or 20 songs that were downloaded billions
48:48
of times or listened to or whatever they're tracking on there.
48:53
And I was like, man, I can't find another artist that has more than two or three that
48:58
are in the billions.
48:59
You know?
49:00
Well, when you were pulling up like a lot of the videos too, and like you were showing
49:02
me like stuff from the concert and you were like, look at these people that are losing
49:05
their mind.
49:06
And you're like, I'm going to that concert in a month and I'm going to be losing my mind.
49:10
And I did.
49:11
It was so awesome.
49:13
Yeah.
49:14
I went to see him in Tampa and that was amazing.
49:18
Oh yeah, that was, that was one of the downsides to the course was, you know, we were bouncing
49:23
around so much.
49:24
I missed out on a lot of the concerts I was hoping, hoping to go to.
49:28
And here's my, my little jab at the NWTF convention.
49:31
I feel like they need to make sure they don't schedule it when the Daytona 500 is going
49:36
on because poor, poor dot on the drive back from that, um, I made her listen to the MRN,
49:43
which is like the radio network that does NASCAR, like the whole NASCAR feed of the
49:49
Daytona 500, which if you're into NASCAR, like I am like, that's fine.
49:53
But if you're not, you're literally listening to these people on the radio talking about
49:57
cars going in a circle.
49:58
Yep.
49:59
I had no idea what I was listening to.
50:00
I was like, and I mean, we live super close to it as well, but I had no idea.
50:07
Um, but it was, I think it was canceled as well.
50:11
Like we listened to it, but it rained out or something.
50:13
It was postponed.
50:14
Yeah.
50:15
I think it got like delayed.
50:16
So it ended up working out.
50:17
Yeah.
50:18
I can't remember.
50:19
I just, we had it going for a little bit.
50:21
It, it wasn't, it wasn't so bad driving with you Zach.
50:25
Lots of, lots of camping and hiking horror stories and.
50:29
Well, and dot picked up pretty quickly on a lot of my like idiosyncrasies.
50:34
Like I've got pretty bad, like anxiety and I have a lot of OCD tendencies.
50:38
So for me to like leave the truck, sometimes I've got to check the door like eight times
50:43
and make sure that like, everything's locked up.
50:45
Yeah.
50:46
If you've got something valuable in there, even if there's nothing valuable in there,
50:50
I'm just paranoid about checking stuff.
50:53
And I feel like probably like halfway through film and everything.
50:57
Dot got to the point where she's like, I'm on like, just leave it.
51:00
It's locked.
51:01
Like, and of course it works out like one of the last trips we did, we were at, um,
51:08
the Oklahoma city airport and we were returned in the rental car that we had.
51:13
And I was doing my crazy checks and was making sure I didn't forget anything.
51:17
And dots like, come on, like, let's just get to the airport.
51:19
Like we can go.
51:20
And I'm like, all right, fine.
51:21
Like I'll leave.
51:22
And of course that's the one time I forgot my like $400 prescription sunglasses in the
51:28
truck.
51:29
And it haunts me to this day that I didn't do my like fifth check and then find that.
51:34
Um, cause I know I would have.
51:35
So I like to blame dot, even though it's my fault for losing them.
51:39
I must say your checks that I, I can't recall exactly what it was, but your crazy shakes
51:45
that did save us one or two times where we almost forgot things.
51:49
So nice.
51:50
I'll, I'll give you that.
51:53
Count it.
51:55
That's a W for me.
51:56
Yeah.
51:57
Well, is there anything else, like anything that you wanted to share that I didn't ask
52:02
you about?
52:03
I mean, I, I can't think of anything that's off of my head and you Zach, no, I was looking
52:11
through, I had some notes, but yeah, I think we covered any, everything.
52:14
Yeah.
52:15
I guess like, uh, just take this time to thank everybody who's, you know, already signed
52:19
up for the course, already completed the course.
52:21
Um, we're super grateful for that.
52:23
And, um, like we've kind of alluded to in the podcast, um, keep giving feedback, keep
52:27
letting us know what you thought of the course and ways we can improve the course.
52:31
Cause this isn't a static thing.
52:33
Um, we're going to continue to update this course and, uh, make changes.
52:37
So, you know, as you go through it and you have any kind of recommendations, um, of how
52:41
we can improve things, or like we mentioned for the second course, things that you think
52:45
would be beneficial.
52:46
Um, definitely let us know, um, cause yeah, we really appreciate that.
52:50
Yeah.
52:51
And I'll add to that, the, you know, the more successful the course is, the more, I mean,
52:57
it's funding that like a self funded.
53:00
So the more successful it is, the more we can put into it and the, the more products
53:05
that we're ultimately come out of it down the road.
53:08
So, you know, if you enjoyed that, make sure you check out the other course when it goes
53:12
live.
53:13
Uh, you know, share it with, with others to help us spread the word, you know, anything
53:20
that people can do to help us get it in front of more people, I think is ultimately good
53:24
for the resource, but also is good for, for the programming because we'll be able to put
53:31
more back into it.
53:33
And so self-funded.
53:34
Yeah.
53:35
For sure.
53:36
All right.
53:37
Well, it was really fun talking to you guys about it.
53:41
I've heard pieces of, of these stories and things, you know, over the last several months,
53:46
but it was nice to kind of talk through all of what went into developing these courses
53:52
and hearing your side of things.
53:54
So really fun to do that.
53:56
Yeah.
53:57
Thank you for having us.
53:58
Yeah.
53:59
Thanks for having us.
54:00
Yeah.
54:01
Thanks everybody out there for listening.
54:02
We appreciate all the support.
54:03
Like always.
54:04
Uh, if you hadn't had a chance, please drop us a rating, you know, check out the course
54:09
if you haven't gotten a chance, it's, uh, I think really valuable stuff and, and a lot
54:14
of people are giving us that kind of feedback, helping us share the podcast and other things
54:20
are always helpful.
54:21
So thanks everybody for, for all the support out there.
54:28
Wild Turkey Science is part of the Natural Resources University Podcast Network and is
54:32
made possible by Turkeys for Tomorrow, a grassroots organization dedicated to the wild turkey.
54:37
To learn more about TFT, check out turkeysfortomorrow.org.
54:42
Thanks.
54:47
you