Latest / Aspergers & Autism Podcast [The Aspie World] AuDHD / Autism 1 to 1 Teacher Interview

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Autism 1 to 1 Teacher Interview · Aspergers & Autism Podcast [The Aspie World] AuDHD

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You have arrived. Welcome to the Aspy world.
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1:19
You have arrived. Welcome to the ASBI world.
1:23
Here's where we talk about anything and everything ASD in
1:27
an upbeat and informative way. And now here's your man on the
1:31
spectrum, your autism ambassador, Daniel Morgan Jones.
1:39
Guys, welcome back to another episode of the ASBI World
1:41
Podcast. It's really good.
1:43
I'm enjoying this season so far with some really good guests on,
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and I think all my guests have been women, I think for this.
1:50
Yeah, I know this whole season. So I have another guest for me
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today, Jenny. So Jenny, do you want to take it
1:55
away and tell us who you are and what you do and all that stuff
1:57
so we know who you are all? Right.
1:59
Hi, Dan, Thank you for having me.
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I'm Jenny Sandler and I am a teacher basically but I have
2:09
evolved. I have a company called
2:10
Homeschool UK and I specifically support children who are
2:16
autistic, dyslexic and or have ADHD.
2:20
I help them by teaching them one to one.
2:23
I have consultations with their parents and their schools
2:26
explaining the best way for them to learn or the best way to
2:30
manage the home environment or the school environment.
2:33
I get trainings to schools and I spend my time working with some
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fantastically creative and beautiful children and so I love
2:45
my job. Oh that's amazing.
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So how long have you been doing this for?
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I have been working like this for about 13 or 14 years.
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Before that, I was a traditional teacher.
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We were in a classroom. Holy smokes.
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And so is it a lot different to like, you know, schooling
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traditionally in a classroom versus schooling kind of 1 to
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ones like is it completely different or is it very similar
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you just got a different tag audience?
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I think that there are similarities and differences.
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A lot of classroom teaching is classroom management and making
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sure everyone is doing what they're supposed to be doing and
3:24
rewarding and consequences and also trying to deliver a
3:28
particular lesson that in a way that everyone can understand.
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When you work one-on-one, you generally don't have any
3:34
behavioral challenges. And you can, you can teach
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exactly what that child needs to learn and you can teach them in
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exactly the way that they need to be taught, which often, if
3:46
you are dyslexic or autistic or have ADHD, is slightly different
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to the way mainstream teaching is, is undertaken in the
3:56
classroom. But one of the things that I do
4:01
is that I, I explain to schools and teachers what they can do to
4:05
adapt the way they teach so that it is suitable for anyone who's
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neurodivergent. And I think that's really,
4:12
really hard. We have in our head as teachers,
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you know, there's differentiation.
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So you make something easier, you make something harder.
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But actually you can adapt the way you teach so that it's just
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really inclusive that using specific techniques that might
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work best for someone who's dyslexic.
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But just because you're using that technique, it doesn't mean
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that anyone who's not dyslexic isn't going to still learn from
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that. So a really, really, really
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simple example I often give is you can enlarge the font.
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Dyslexic Children and a lot of neurodivergent children and
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adults prefer to have the fonts made bigger.
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The space is enlarged. Now, just because you don't need
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larger font, it doesn't mean that it's detrimental to your
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learning by having larger font. So things like that, ways that
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teachers can support the children who they know have
5:03
learning differences, but also by teaching this way, you're
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going to pick up, you're going to be accommodating and
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supporting children who may have something going on and you don't
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even know. And at least this way,
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everyone's getting a fairly good education.
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Interesting you, you mentioned behavioural challenges and, and
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I'd like to touch on this, you know, would you say that
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teaching a learning type equals or has a direct correlation to
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behavioral issues? Because you said when you're
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one-on-one with kids, you don't really have behavioral issues,
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right. So that would mean that because
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the environment that they're in in a typical school would mean
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that that's triggering a behavior.
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Is that what you mean? Well, definitely that's that's
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part of it. So if you're in, let's just talk
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about the environment for a moment and not even address the,
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the cognition in learning and the teaching.
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If you're in an environment that is not conducive to your best
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learning because it's too loud or because it's too distracting.
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And I mean, even talk about like classroom clutter, visual
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clutter. So there's lots of things on the
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wall or the, all the supplies. So for example, all the math
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manipulatives, the math toys that teachers have, if they're
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visible, that's going to distract, potentially distract
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someone. And instead of focusing on what
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you need to be focusing on, you're actually looking at
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something else. Or if other children are noisy
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or if there are smells or if the lights are all wrong.
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So all of that can cause someone who is experiencing sensory
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difficulties in that environment to behave in a way that is is
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perhaps not desirable. And it's not because they're
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being naughty or they're mucking around.
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It's because all does not feel well within them.
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And that's their that behavior is, is communicating that all
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does not feel well. Then if we shift to the, the,
6:56
the learning methods, if you need an adaptation, So if you
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need the bigger font, for example, or if you find that the
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teachers delivered an A lesson, they've explained something, but
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you've forgotten what they've said because you have working
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memory challenges, then of course you're going to act out
7:17
in a way because you're bored or you're frustrated.
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And so if which is why I don't have that one-on-one because if
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there's an understanding something.
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They you're able. To go, we can go through it, I
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can explain in a different way. So yes, so definitely certain
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adaptations to the classroom environment and the way that
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lessons are delivered could improve behavior without having
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to use specific behavioral management systems.
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Interesting. OK, so in terms of the, the, the
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schooling model, here's the thing, you know, I think like
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because you're coming from a background of actual just
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teaching and education and then going into more specifics,
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right. So I, I always feel like the
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the, the school system's very archaic, like it's very old.
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The the way the way schools are set up was designed to create
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individuals ready for factory working.
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That was the isn't about Kingdom Manel, you know, boom and and it
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hasn't changed since you know, like and do you feel like this
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has a detrimental impact on people, especially with
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cognitive ability that is divergent.
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So you have like kids, kids on the spectrum may not as be
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interested in say, let's say sports, right, playing football
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or whatever, but they might be more interested in doing things
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like, I don't know, planting trees or cultivating, you know,
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food or, you know, I don't know. Do do you feel like this the the
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school system needs radical change or is it just me being
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kind of like this centre left weirdo?
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No, I, I think it needs change. I'm not sure I would go as as
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far as to say radical because I do believe that there are some
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things that are useful for all of us to learn.
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And for example, you, you, you've said sports.
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You, you gave sports as an example as something that an
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autistic person might not like or for that matter any person
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might not like. But I think we can all agree
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that having exercise is important.
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Learning math, as much as someone might not like it or say
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it's irrelevant because we can do everything on a calculator.
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We all, I, I mean, I hope we all agree that having a, a
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foundation in math is, is important.
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So I, I agree that that schools are not, they're not designed
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for the type of learners that we have.
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And I don't think they're designed for sort of the, the
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society that we're living in right now with work, you know,
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with all this technology and, and AI and working remotely and
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working collaboratively, but in different ways.
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I, so I do think that that things need to change and shift.
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And I think they are as well. Because if, if I look at how my
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children are taught in school compared to how I was taught,
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it's not the same as, as it was in the, in the 80s and 90s.
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So things are shifting, just perhaps not in the way that we
10:13
need them to. But I and I also think that
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there are are schools that are being really innovative and
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certainly some independent schools that have the, the
10:21
resources, the financial resources are able to give a a
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significantly broader area of subjects that children can get
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stuck into. Yeah, I, I think you're right.
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You know, like that. Yeah, you have those ridiculous
10:36
arguments. So you're like, you know what?
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It needs algebra or an actual factories algebra every day.
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But people don't really realize it.
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But I think, you know, there are certain things like, yes, you
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know, now we're all walking around with a personal digital
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assistant in a pocket that should be included.
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You know, it's only going to increase in it's in it's
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popularity and it's use. It's like kind of like, you
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know, I don't know, people would say, like, you know, if I spoke
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to my grandfather, he'd say he didn't have shoes to go to
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school with, you know what I mean?
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And so now everyone has shoes. Uphill both ways in the snow,
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right? Yeah, that kind of thing.
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And I remember him saying to me you paid £0.50 a year to go to
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school. You know, he was born in 1920
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and, you know, you go to go to school barefoot because you can
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afford to shoot. And so you can't say that, oh,
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we can't teach, you know, from a standpoint of having your cell
11:24
phones with us because not everyone going have a digital
11:26
assistant. Well, they will, you know, they
11:27
do now kids that and it's just like shoes.
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It was a, it was a technology at the time that was becoming more
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and more popular, more and more affordable as the things went
11:34
on. And now we teach kids that we
11:35
have to have, you know, football trainers for for school.
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We have to have school shoes for school, you know, and, and
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that's not, it's not to do with economics, that's to do with
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societal change and evolution. So I do think like you're
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saying, you know, all the things that the technology we're using
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now is only going to improve and we keep teaching without using
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those methods to incorporate it in, in a, in a large way.
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I think we are definitely leaving kind of opportunity and,
11:59
and stuff on the table. Because what happens is you have
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a school kid who becomes 16 to 18 who then has to then relearn
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all those things if they didn't have that tutoring in school,
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you know what I mean? So.
12:11
But I, I think schools are using technology as much as they can
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and they perhaps sometimes just limited by the number of iPads
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or Chromebooks that they can afford.
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One thing actually that I do want to to point out that I
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think schools are doing that's important that we probably
12:29
didn't have as children is a much greater focus on social and
12:35
emotional well-being and positive mental health and, you
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know, citizenship and a lot of that, which is important, you
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know, for growing up to be a well-rounded, happy person.
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And I also think one thing because I in my work, I often
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get very critical of what I see is happening in schools or what,
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you know, my students report to me and I and I get very kind of
13:01
defensive and you know, this isn't right.
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You, you deserve better. On the other hand, though, I can
13:08
also see from the school's perspective that first of all,
13:12
they're not schools are not given a lot of money.
13:15
So they are they are under resourced.
13:17
They have but so much responsibility.
13:21
So when I think about what a school did for me and possibly
13:24
for you when we were younger is the school's job was to educate
13:29
us. We basically had to be competent
13:33
in reading, writing, math, bit of science, bit of history.
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And I'm talking about primary school, not.
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I'm not. Yeah, yeah, just general.
13:40
Yeah, yeah. But now schools have to make
13:44
sure that children aren't hungry, children have clothes,
13:48
children are not depressed, children have access to school.
13:56
It's it's, it's not the, the schools are much more involved
14:01
with the big picture. And that's is, it's important
14:05
and it's. It is.
14:07
And it's important that we're aware of that as well.
14:09
So, you know, when I'm thinking, like, take my own children, for
14:12
example, when I'm thinking, oh, why, why aren't they doing this
14:18
level of math? You know, my child's really
14:19
capable. She should be doing this math.
14:22
Well, actually, they're doing the best they can, but they're
14:24
giving her a hell of a lot more than just math, you know, with
14:30
everything else that they provide.
14:33
I think like, and you're absolutely right, you know, that
14:35
old saying of like, you know, it takes a village to raise a
14:38
child, right. And I think that was, comes from
14:40
the old time where we used to have the churches used to, or
14:42
the clergy used to run the schools, but the clergy came
14:44
from a charitable point of view. So they would have fed the
14:46
children, they would have made sure they're clothed, they would
14:48
have made sure that their well-being was OK.
14:49
They'd, they'd, they'd, they'd be the third parent in this kind
14:53
of like raising of a child. We'd lost that, you know, we
14:56
lost that over the years because, you know, things
14:58
progressed very interesting though.
14:59
And it is a fascinating subject that we've talked about for
15:01
hours. But so I've so so with your job
15:03
now working 1 to one with kids, what would you say the most
15:06
common issues that you're, you're coming across?
15:08
Like, what's the thing that keeps cropping up time and time
15:10
again? You're like this every time I
15:12
go. Then this issue is the number
15:13
one. Is reading.
15:16
I'm I mostly teach children how to read.
15:18
Holy smokes, why do you think this is?
15:22
Well, probably because I have a lot of experience in teaching
15:26
children how to read and I have a master dyslexia, so therefore
15:29
people come to me for that. But, you know, joking aside,
15:32
because reading is for many people is, is sort of a simple
15:40
process that you, you can learn quite easily.
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But for a lot of, well, for a few people, it's, it's not, it's
15:45
much harder to figure out how to read.
15:48
And reading is taught in a very specific way in schools.
15:52
And that way does not work for everybody.
15:56
And one of the things that that I do that I think is really
16:01
successful is that I create my own books for the children that
16:07
I'm teaching to read that are of interest to them.
16:12
So if I'm teaching someone and it's not just someone who's
16:14
autistic, it started this way. It started, you know, with me
16:19
wanting to make sure that the autistic children I was teaching
16:21
were really interested. So I would always ask in advance
16:25
what what are your special interests?
16:27
So I'd ask the parents what they're interested in and I
16:29
would create a book about that interest.
16:32
But it's really useful for everyone because you need to be
16:36
engaged. You need to want to do there
16:38
because a lot of times by the time a child has come to me,
16:41
they're very switched off. So I need to get in there with
16:44
what they like and pitch the book at their level and I can
16:49
select my own vocabulary. And I kind of at first don't
16:52
really use the the method from school.
16:55
I just use my method, which is words that I think the child
16:59
needs to know and wants to know, and then have words in the same
17:02
families. And then once we're kind of
17:03
happy reading, then I bring back in the phonics and go from both
17:08
angles. Interesting.
17:10
Like so do you think? And, and this is a, this is a
17:13
broader question and, and you're probably the best person to ask
17:15
for this. So I'm dyslexic, like super
17:17
dyslexic like like I write my, I write.
17:21
I wrote my book by dictating it to my iPhone whilst on a
17:24
treadmill. So that's how I did it.
17:27
And my handwriting is atrocious. Like you wouldn't.
17:29
I mean, you wouldn't believe that my handwriting is just
17:31
horrendous. I don't think mine is.
17:35
Also, I don't think that's so bad.
17:38
But it goes to the fact that like, I have no real dominant
17:40
hand, right, right, my left hand is just as bad as writing my
17:42
right hand. There's not really my son is
17:44
exactly the same. But do you so?
17:48
And the thing that I think is most interesting is I can have
17:51
my computers read to me, which is exceptionally more efficient
17:56
because, and let me tell you something interesting.
17:58
So my brain is going to a bazillion miles an hour and when
18:00
my I know what you're going to. Say, can I guess guess what
18:03
you're going to say? You could guess, but I think
18:05
you'll be wrong in the second-half.
18:07
I think you're going to say you. You speed everything up when?
18:10
You listen. That's the first half.
18:11
I speed everything up. I speed all the videos, speed
18:13
all my books, speed all my podcasts, everything.
18:14
Just, and I can just digest it at the level of my mind is going
18:18
when I'm trying to read something, I, I can't read it
18:19
fast enough because I'm having to really digest the symbols,
18:22
really look at those symbols trying to understand it.
18:24
And then I get roadblocked and, and, and it's the first thing
18:26
you're learning. If you don't understand the
18:27
spelling and the, if you don't understand what a word is said,
18:30
then the rest of it loses all context.
18:33
So there's another thing that's really important with me and,
18:37
and how I visually learn things is symbols and symbols is not
18:41
reading symbols is recognition of something that identifies
18:45
like, you know, a stop sign means don't go there.
18:49
You know what I mean? It doesn't say don't go here
18:50
because it's dangerous. You just know it because you see
18:52
the symbol. So would you say that words have
18:54
less reading words has less power now versus like symbols
19:01
and having things read to you? Because if you're a blind person
19:05
or a person who's partially sighted, you have to have things
19:07
read to you anyway. Yeah, I think that's, well, two
19:13
things. First of all, I want to just say
19:15
that we're really lucky that we're living in this age where
19:19
we are where you can have audio books and you can have a
19:24
computer room talking to you and you can get these special pens
19:26
that scan the text and read to you.
19:28
Because it's transformative and it takes a lot of pressure off
19:34
and a lot of the the anxiety that comes with learning to read
19:37
in terms of symbols, there are a group of people most likely.
19:47
I mean, I don't want to generalize, but often times
19:50
autistic people and some dyslexic people read better by
19:54
recognizing the symbols that are the words.
19:58
So instead of being able to piece together the the letters
20:02
and the different phonemes that they make, which we call using,
20:05
you know, reading with phonics, they.
20:08
Recognize the whole word because the word has a shape.
20:12
Look, Yeah, yeah, yes. And often times people will will
20:16
learn to read just like that. And what can happen is you start
20:21
recognizing words as a symbol as a whole, and then you start
20:24
recognizing pieces of that word or that word in part of another
20:28
word. And that was actually how people
20:32
were taught in the 80s. Because that's how I, that's how
20:36
I learned to read. Yeah.
20:37
And. And it's shifted, but I'm not
20:41
saying that that that sight word method is now is now sort of no
20:44
longer in vogue for reading, but it's not a bad method.
20:48
Phonics is in vogue and phonics is good.
20:51
I'm not saying, you know, children shouldn't learn
20:52
phonics, but it's a combination, I'd say an average.
20:56
You need to use a combination of methods.
20:58
And there are some people who can only learn to read the
21:01
phonics and some people who can only learn to read with sight
21:05
words. But what you'll, but what you'll
21:06
find is, is that if you are a, a sight word reader, if you do
21:11
sort of use that symbol method, you'll be able to read words
21:16
that other people may find very difficult because a long
21:20
complicated word is has a, the symbol is brighter, if that
21:24
makes sense. OK, so you'll you'll be fine
21:28
reading more complicated words that you've recognized.
21:31
Much easier than reading things like.
21:34
Then there this. And this, yeah.
21:38
Well, yeah, not just homophones, but words that look similar,
21:41
like they. It's the short ones.
21:43
I have this. Exact experience.
21:44
My girlfriend's like how? How can you, how do you read
21:46
like, you know, very complex words, but you're very bad at
21:50
reading the small ones? And that's exactly why, Because
21:52
I recognize them as, yeah, they're, they're bigger, aren't
21:53
they? They stand out and you remember
21:55
them. If you think of of the you know
21:57
on, ON and NNO like the you know the shortest words in the
22:03
alphabet kind of thing, but they are very similar looking so.
22:09
That's super interesting. I'm not sure, I kind of forgot
22:11
what your original question was, but.
22:14
I just, yeah, I, I my, my question was really, really
22:16
simple. Do you think that symbols and
22:18
kind of like technology hold more weight to a person's
22:21
development and learning versus traditional kind of like analog
22:26
reading THE the THS and an E is the, the, the, you know what I
22:32
mean like. So I think that for for children
22:37
and adults who struggle with reading, technology is a very
22:42
useful and powerful tool. And to understand, I guess if
22:45
you're, if you're a teacher who's younger and has, you know,
22:49
trained more recently and was taught to read using the phonics
22:52
approach to recognize that sometimes the older, the old
22:56
fashioned sight word or using logo graphs is also a valid way
23:03
to support reading. And for some children is is the
23:07
better way. Yeah, yeah, I, I just find it
23:10
fascinating because I always find workarounds and my
23:13
workarounds are always kind of not traditionally what you, what
23:16
people are using. You know, I mean, I'm thinking
23:18
it works for me and it works really, really well, you know?
23:20
Is this kind of frowned upon or? Yeah, No.
23:21
Interesting. OK, so here's a question.
23:25
What's the most challenging type of, of client you come across?
23:28
What's the most challenging part like?
23:32
So, OK, so sometimes I work with children who have been asked to
23:46
leave their school. That's how I got started
23:49
actually. That's how I sort of became as
23:52
home school teacher. I was working with autistic
23:55
children, mostly autistic, who had been asked to leave
23:59
mainstream school. They weren't in just, They were
24:02
in independent schools. Most, Yeah, for the most part,
24:05
which is a little bit different. You know, the Independent School
24:08
can ask someone to leave much easier than a state school.
24:11
And because of that whole experience and they've been
24:16
through a really rough time and a lot of negativity and a lot of
24:21
trauma, I get a lot of pushback from these children because
24:28
everything is hard. Learn, you know, if you if you
24:32
have learning differences, learning can be hard.
24:35
If you've had a really rough time in an educational
24:38
environment, then teachers can be scary.
24:43
So I often have to work through that.
24:47
And I can't just jump in and say, right, you know, we're
24:50
going to do reading and writing. And even if I'm have a method
24:54
that's more appealing to that child, I often can't just jump
24:57
in with that. And what I find is that I need
24:59
to really, really step back and give them more support than than
25:04
I know that they need just so that they can build up their
25:08
confidence and learn to trust me that I'm that I'm not.
25:14
Yeah, but but what kind of makes that challenging, and this is
25:18
probably more my own issue, is that when you're hired to do a
25:23
job and you someone's paying you to teach their children, you
25:28
want to do it. You want to get results.
25:30
You want to show them that, you know, I want to show them I'm,
25:34
I'm doing the best I can and your child is learning how to
25:36
read. But and I kind of know, well,
25:38
actually, I'm not going to get results right away.
25:40
I have to go really slow so that I often have that sort of
25:43
struggle. But usually parents are very
25:45
understanding, you know, that's in my head, that the pressure's
25:48
from me, not not from them. Interesting.
25:52
So we've, we're running out of time, but I, I really want to
25:55
ask my final kind of question before I ask, you know, how can
25:58
people get in touch with you and stuff is what has been the best
26:01
experience for you? Just you have to pick one
26:03
experience of your job working 1 to one with kids.
26:05
What has been the best experience?
26:06
Is there been one time when you're like, wow, this has blown
26:08
me away and you've come home all emotional and really happy.
26:10
Like, has that ever happened? Yeah, I mean, a lot of the time
26:15
I don't think there's been one. I mean, if there has been a
26:18
moment that really stood out, I I can't remember it right now
26:22
because I'm old and getting forgetful but a little bit loud.
26:28
Well, at the same age, aren't we?
26:29
You just call me old. Well, yeah, I did.
26:31
I did. Well, I can speak for myself
26:35
that that I'm getting a little bit forgetful, but I just when I
26:41
see children that they're doing something that they couldn't do
26:43
before and that they're reading, that they're able to do the
26:46
math, that that they have a bounce in their in their step,
26:51
you know, like these aha moments.
26:53
But I also, I want to share as, as well as being a teacher, I
27:00
have an autistic son and I think a lot of the like the amazing
27:07
feelings I get is when I see that he's being successful, that
27:12
he's, you know, you know, he's going on to secondary school
27:17
next year and he's done 11 plus and he's doing, he's done
27:20
really, really well. And he's put up with a lot of
27:24
challenges or randomly he's injured himself.
27:28
He ruptured his ACL playing football and he's had surgery
27:31
and he's been off sports. He can't play football for a
27:34
year. He's not allowed to run.
27:36
And he's a really, really active, busy, busy kid.
27:39
And it's so hard and so frustrating.
27:42
And I'm just amazed with how he's managing and dealing with
27:46
it, even if it's, even if it's hard for him.
27:49
And so I think I'm sort of regularly amazed and blown away
27:56
by the resilience that children have and sort of their their
28:00
spirit and, and how they can get on with life even when it's
28:03
hard. Interesting.
28:07
Now that's lovely. And so so if people want to
28:08
learn more about you and find you online, do you have like an
28:11
Instagram page or a website? Like how do people get in touch
28:13
with you? So I have a website,
28:15
itshomeschooluk.com. I do have Instagram.
28:20
I do have LinkedIn. I do have Facebook.
28:22
I'm I'm not great with any of those things.
28:25
OK, well, if you yeah. But so the best way to get in
28:29
touch with me is on my website and you can reach me through
28:32
there or LinkedIn. OK, cool.
28:34
If you give me a LinkedIn link, I'll put it in the in the
28:37
description of this video if anybody's wanting to find our
28:39
LinkedIn. Awesome.
28:41
This is a really interesting episode and I've never had this
28:44
conversation before, so thank you so much for being on the
28:45
show, Jenny. My pleasure and thank you for
28:48
having me. It's been fun for me as well.
28:50
It's been awesome. Hey guys, thank you so much for
28:53
checking out this podcast. Make sure you are subscribed
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because there are people listening right now who are not
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subscribed to this podcast. I can see you.
29:00
Make sure you subscribe. OK guys, see you in the next
29:01
one. Peace.
29:03
Hey guys, thank you so much for checking out this podcast.
29:05
Make sure you are subscribed because there are people
29:07
listening right now who are not subscribed to this podcast.
29:09
I can see you. Make sure you subscribe.
29:11
OK, guys. See you in the next one piece.