Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Alexander (2004) - Oliver Stone | Houselights #195

Transcript

Alexander (2004) - Oliver Stone | Houselights #195 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the NED party. Hello everybody at home, and
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: welcome to House Sites specifically House of Stone Oliver Stone,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: and we are finishing our biopics of the nineties, plus
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: this one because frankly I wanted to talk about it.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: This one's on me and that's why I'm hosting this week.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: We're talking about Alexander from two thousand and four and tonight,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: as they're with me every single time we podcast, is
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Darren Moser and John Mills. How are you two doing tonight?
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be bringing up the right flank and
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: then reversing direction and coming back towards the left flank.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Darren's going to hold the center, and Tristan I need
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: you to hold the line later when the elephants show up.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: All I'm going to be doing is making sure that
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: the subtitles are there so we know which flank is
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: going where.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Very key, and yes, very very key, because there's a
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: lot of dust on the battlefield, a whole lot of dust.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: So this is your eagle eye in the sky reporting
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: on the Battle of Macedonia. Left flank over here, Yes,
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: a good thing he had is drone following out mister Moser.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: It's the it was the Battle of Gargamel, So.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: That's villain and you can't you know, Oh.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Oh sorry, Oh no, I'm glad you made the joke,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: because the whole time I was sitting every time they
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: said Gogga Bell, I was like Gargamel, Like I couldn't
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: help it.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, in there, it's almost impossible not to. But yes,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: we were talking about Alexander, the movie that came out
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and four, based off of the life
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: of Alexander the Great, the Massian, the man who conquered
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Persia and tried to conquer the rest of Asia, and
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: he did it extremely young, and he's so crazy was
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: his empire that they've made multiple movies about it, and
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: we all know that that is the gold standard that
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: you know, if you really want the Great to follow
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: your name, you have to have multiple adaptations in Hollywood.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, very very true, very true, and also conveniately hit. Conveniently,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: his life story is in the public domain, so very
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: much more affordable easier to get the rights to talk
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: about him.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: Just became available under Disney's new rules years later.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: So Darren, what did you have you seen this movie before?
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I saw it in theaters because oh
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: four would have been right around early college for me,
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: and we were all film students. Of course we went
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: and saw the Giant bilepic Oliver Stone movie, so now
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: that would have been the theatrical version. I don't think I
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: saw it since then. But it was really fun to revisit,
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: except for the time length. That's all I'm gonna say.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: I'm not gonna have some We all know it's a
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: long movie, and I knew what I was getting into.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: But no, this would probably be my second time watching okay, but.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Your your first time watching the ultimate cut? Yes, all right, now, John,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: had you seen this in the theaters?
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: Not even one moment of it?
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Because when it came out, I actually I was newly
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: married when this came out. Yeah, I was newly married,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: so we weren't much doing and I was starting a
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: new job all that type of stuff. So I never
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: really got around to it. And the critical reception of
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: the theatrical version was so so god awfully bad that
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: I was like.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: Let's set this one out.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: That's okay, and would probably never have come around, probably
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: would never have known that there were four different cuts
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: of this film were not for you, Tristan, and so
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: I'm glad that you kept us on the path so
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: that we we watched the ultimate cut, which is not
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: the final cut nor the director's cut.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: No, so you know, and that's something that we do
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: need to address right at the top, because this movie
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: has four cuts. That's insane, and the final cut is
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: not actually the last cut. We have the theatrical cut
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: which came out in two thousand and four, and then
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: the very next year it was re edited before the
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: DVD release later in two thousand and five, and it's
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: actually shorter than the theatrical cut. The director's cut is shorter.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: It went from one hundred seventy five minutes down to
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty seven minutes because Stone felt like
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: he got a lot of flak for, you know, kind
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: of being being a little languid, and so he said
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: he's like, I'm going to tighten it up. I'm going
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: to focus more on the action. And the thing is
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: is that it was this was Warner Brothers. Let me refrain,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: it was one of Warner Brothers' greatest home release movies
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: up until that time. It made so much money in
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: the DVD uh, for the theatrical cut that they're like,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: how about you make a director's cut. He's like okay,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: And then that director's cut made even more money on
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: the DVD sales than the theatrical cut, and Warner Brothers
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: went to Stone and said, don't you have like a
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: lot of footage leftover? He's like, yeah, that's what I
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: was complaining to you about when you wouldn't let me
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: make my epic, when you made me cut it down
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: for the theaters, and they're like, okay, well, now's your time,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: and so he made one called ale This is true story.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Alexander revisited colon the final unrated cut, and so this
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: is basically like the final cut in two thousand and
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: seven is basically.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: Black and white cut.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: No, no, it's the kid had been singing, it would
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: have been a thing. But this is the final unrated
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: cut in two thousand and seven was basically the Kitchen Sink.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: And then that was for seven years that was the
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: only one available on Blu Ray. And then that one
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: made a lot of money and he was able to
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: kind of, you know, you know, sit on it for
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: about seven years and he's like, you know what I
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: think I went too far with the final cut. I'm
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: going to make an ultimate cut that came out in
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, and that's the one that that we watched,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: and that's his preferred version.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: For all of the jokes, for all the comments you
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: can make and everything like that. As a fan of
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: the film, Tristan, how do you account for this? It
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: gets such a crap reception. It tanks in the in
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: the US, absolutely hard bombs in the US, hard disaster
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: of a film, career derailer if anything, and yet it's
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: making all of this money on home release.
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: How do you account for that?
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I think word of mouth. I think it was. I
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: think it failed miserably in the in the States and
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: in the UK, and people hated it. People just really
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: didn't like it. I think around that time, yeah, yeah,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: they were trying.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: To think that this is not like the Hey, let's
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: take the wife and kids to see Alexander in theaters.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: It wasn't exactly a Christmas release, like it came out
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: in November, but it had some stiff competition. I don't
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: have the listen in front of me, but I remember
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: seeing that list and thinking like, oh crap, like this
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: movie is gonna get Buried. I didn't see it in theaters.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I didn't see I love this movie right off the bat,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: like the reason why we're doing biopics stones biopicks of
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: the nineties and Alexander's because I just wanted to talk
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: about Alexander. It took me a long time to fall
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: fall in love with this movie, and it wasn't until
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: the final cut in two thousand and seven that I really,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: you know, like started started liking it because I I
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: watched the theatrical cut on DVD when it came out,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, that's not very good. But
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: then the director's cut came out, I was like, oh,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: I bet this is better than I was like, that's
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: still not very good. It's a little tighter. But then
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: once the full blown kitchen Sink came out in to
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: us sound was like, this is fascinating. This is a
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: very different experience. But to answer your question, John, I
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: think it was the critics hated it, and so that
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: kind of it made people not want to go see
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: it because I think we put a little bit more
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: stock in what critics said in two thousand and four,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: I think, and I also think that we had a
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: little bit more of a puritanical sensibility, and so there
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: was a lot of stuff in here that I think
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: people didn't always approve of. And there was some controversy
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: around Alexander's bisexuality or pain sexuality that was on display,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: and I think there was protests surrounding it because of that,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: specifically in Greece, and I think it just like a
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: lot of people thought it was bland and boring. And
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: the thing is is that, like this was an epic.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: This was an over three hour epic that was cut
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: down tremendously, even though one hundred and seventy five minutes
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: it's nothing to sneeze at, Like that's a long movie
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: to begin with, Yeah, it is, it's it was still
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: robbed of so many character driven moments that really made
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: the piece. And so I think it was a victim
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: of being forced to a specific run time. Critics hating it,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: but then once it so you're just like, why would
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: I spend that much money to go see it at
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: the theater, And then when it came out on DVDs,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I was like, maybe I'll give it a shot. Two
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: thousand and four, I mean that was Blockbuster Heyday, and
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: so I like that's what I didn't go to theater
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: because of it. I was just like, oh, okay, you know,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: like I love Sword and Sandals epics and everything like that,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: but this is getting pained by the critics. So if
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: I want to watch it, I'll watch it on DVD.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: And I think the rest of the world was that
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: way too.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Do you think that also the fact that Stone's propensity
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: toward doing this sort of historical mishmashed sort of movie,
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Like we talked about jaf Kay Nixon. He's known for
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: doing these very in depth, deep dive dramatizations of history,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: but he's not known for making Gladiator. And I think
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: do you think that maybe that that hurts it too,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: is that it's not Gladiator. It's not it's not a
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Sword and Sandals epic in terms of you're expecting Oliver
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Stone to deliver Maximus at the coliseum, challenging the emperor
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: or anything like that.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I think that was one of the cases. It's it
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: was a double edged sword, because the only reason why
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: this movie was allowed to get made was because the
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: success of Gladiator. That's the only reason why it worked
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: is because like there's he shopped this around and I
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: think five production companies and studios gave him money, like
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: four production studios and companies and everything like that gave
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: him money to budget it. And Warner Brothers was the
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: last to bring in money and become a distributor because
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: they just didn't believe in it. But once you know,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Gladiator was a wild success and you know, like took
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: all the oscars, they're like, okay, well didn't Stone have
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: an idea for you know, something like this, and so
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: that's when they started rolling. But the thing is, it's
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: not Gladiator.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: It's not at all. It's like Star Trek the motion Picture.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: It's like, oh, Star Wars, don't we have a star
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: something that we pull out.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: It's it's kind of the same thing. But the thing
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: is Star Trek the motion Picture. It's very much not
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Star Wars. Seventy Stevens.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, yeah, exactly.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: You know, it's yeah, yeah.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: It's just interesting because because of the fact, like when
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: you mentioned how much you have a fondness for the film,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I was immediately interested to see it because it's like, oh, okay,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: you know, I think it's interesting that I have a
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Stone movie that isn't particularly well loved universally that I
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: have a fondness for now you do too, and so
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I think the big question is, Darren, why are you
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: falling down on the job here? Were you like a
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: closet Nixon fan and we didn't know what you didn't
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: bring that up last week?
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: No, I'm not cluset Nixon fan. Yeah, with with this one,
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: I mean not that we're going to only compare it
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: to Gladiator, but but Gladiator is like Roman Empire, which
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: is a topic we all learn in you know, American studies.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: But with this, it's like it's kind of like a
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: it's a paragraph versus a chapter. Like there's I never learned,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: you know, an entire chapter on the history of Alexander
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: and this portion of history. So I think that kind
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: of leads it to and I think this is fueling
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: what we were saying about it doing better in the
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: video market than in the theatrical market. And the theatrical
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: market it's like, I have no idea who Alexander is, Like, oh,
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: maybe the actors are a bit of a draw, but
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: it's worth the I'll spend a free Blockbuster rental on
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: not a you know, I want to where I can
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: sit at home, take a couple of bathroom breaks during
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: this time, you know, but you know. But it was
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: interesting though, what you were saying about the different cuts,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: because I'd never thought of it this way. But if
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: a movie has multiple cuts, it means each cut sold well,
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: because once a cut stops selling well, they're not going
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: to make more. And and so it makes me kind
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: of want to look back at other movies that have
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: multiple cuts because and look into like the finances a
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: little bit because I never thought of it that way
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: of not just oh the vanity of the director wanting
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: to spin another tail, but there's always the economic component
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: where no one's going to give you money to make
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: more cuts if the last cut didn't do well. So
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: obviously there was something there. I've been barring exceptions to
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: the rule. I'm sure there are ones.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I was just going to say, kids, don't take this
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: advice for Highlander too. I've seen every cut of that
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: film and everyone is worse than the previous. It just
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: gets worse worse every time, So do not apply this tool.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: But it but it makes me look at it in
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: a in a different light.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think I think you're really going to
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: hit it on the head because Stone always wanted to
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: make this a road show movie, like this was like
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: you look at the works of Cissi B. De Mill
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: and you know, like you you can't, Like you can't
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: cut down ten Commandments to one hundred and seventy five minutes.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: It's just not possible. I mean you could, but it
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be the epic that it is, it wouldn't be
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: the blood classic that it is. I'm not saying that
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Alexander is a blood classic. I'm just saying that the uh,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: you know, like doing road show movies is not as
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: popular as as shorter movies, Like the economics of the
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: times just doesn't lend itself to it. And with the
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: home video market, you can go as long as long
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: as you want, essentially and also back then in twenty fourteen,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, two thousand and five, two thousand
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: and four and everything like that, you could you could
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: risk a lot of money in the theater and make
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: your money back in the DVD market. You can't do
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: that anymore. That's why that's why we're not really getting
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: a vast array of movies like the like streaming has
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: killed the mid level movie.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying Alexander's mid Level movie. I'm just saying,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: like this is an example of a movie making its
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: money back on DVD and like having that many cuts
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: as example of that, Like, Warner Brothers made a lot
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: of money off of this, all off of these DVD sales,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: and even though this was a huge failure critically and
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: award wise and money wise, it still was at the
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: time one of Warner brothers most profitable home releases.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: It'll just always fascinate me because I think just with
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: with with with you talking about that, it really does
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: illustrate sort of an unseen casualty of the streaming era,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: because how are you going to make money on multiple cuts?
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Just ask Zack Snyder how that's going for him right now?
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: And I which, uh, you know, with the whole.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Horrible minutes watched, thank you, I don't know what that
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: means exactly exactly.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I mean how and how are you gonna
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: break that down to an investor?
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: Hey, we always spent six hundred and seven.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Dollars permitted on this, Oh okay, and like it's you
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: know whatever. But like with all of that involved, isn't
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: it also easy to go back and say that Stone
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: has become caught in this like is there a possibility
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: of an ultimate final cut at some point in the future.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Is there is there something where like he has notes
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: where he's like, you know, for I almost got it
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: exactly right, and like I would be curious, like from
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: either one of you, because I know I have my
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: own few notes and everything, like what would you cut
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: from that? Like what what would you rearrange your like
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: what is self indulgent here.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: From the ultimate cut of what we watched? Like welleah,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: we reorganize and most stuff around. Man, it's it's it's
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: so strange because I really do feel like the like
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: even because I've seen all four versions and the ultimate
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: cut is very much the version that I watch the most,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: and this this is a movie when I don't know
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: what to watch, This is what I'll put on. This
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: is like, this is something that I'll like when I'm
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: in my basement and say I'm storyboarding or I'm doing
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: some animation or something like that, like I'll put it
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: up on one of my screens. And I was like, oh,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know Boom Alexander Ultimate cut right here. I
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: actually in preparation for this podcast, I was like, I
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: haven't seen the final unrated cut in a very long time,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: so I actually watch that in preparation for this podcast
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: just to remember what was the difference between that and
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: the ultimate cut. And the ultimate cut is it is
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: very much more streamlined than than the final cut, And
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: to me, I might trim a few scenes down, like
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: but like anything that I give you might sound pedantic,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: where like but go as is dancing scene for some
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: reason that like that went on way too long. I agree,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: And there was a few times like that where like
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: it's so strange because I guess I think we can
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: transition into this a little bit more like one criticism
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: that's I should say. Stone got a lot of criticisms
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: from a lot of people about what he focused on
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: and what he didn't in Alexander the Great's Life. Now, Darren,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: you say that you you don't know much of before
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: this movie, you didn't know much about Alexander the Great?
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Is that correct?
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah? No't didn't know much, just knew, you know when
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: they list like, you know, they always have that map
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: where it's like this is how much Genghis Khan covered,
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: and this is how much Alexander the Great covered, And
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: here's the Roman Empire, and then maybe there's like one
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: other like those are always the four maps. That is
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: talking about conquering the known world at a point, and
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: that was about it. Yeah, it's you know, not a footnote,
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: but you know it's a diagram and a paragraph.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Now, John, was there anything What did you know just briefly, briefly,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: did you know anything about Alexander the Great before watching
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: this movie?
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: I knew a bit about Alexander the Great, But if
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: you said Alexander the Great to me, mostly pop culture
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: stuff is what I would spit back at you. Like
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: in Diehard, when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: he wept for there were no more worlds to conker.
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: Benefits of a classical education.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: I know about Alexander and the Gordian not legend, right,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: and I make reference to it at work every so often,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: where I'm like, all right, this is a Gordian Nott problem.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Just cut the damn thing in half, un let's just
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: keep moving sort of thing. And you know, of course
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: there was a reference to the time when Jim Morrison
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: got Alexander the Great haircut and stuff like that. So
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: I didn't know a whole lot about Alexander, but I
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: knew a little bit. I knew, you know, pop culture
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: touch points and that Shakespeare made reference to him and
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: stuff like that.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Well, it's it's funny that you bring up the knot,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: because that's one of the things that people are like, really,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: you're gonna do an Alexander the Great movie, but you're
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: not going to show the not. You're not going to
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: show the burning of Persepolis, You're not gonna show the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Siege of Tire, you know, Like there's so many different things.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: And also like you know, his pursuit of Drias the Third,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: the Great King of Persia. You know, like we see
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: him at the beginning with the Battle of Gagamel, and
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: like they combined a couple of different battles because he
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: fought Darius the Third three times, and I think, I'm
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: not Darius. I'm sorry Derias. I'm gonna do that a
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: couple of times. He like he ran away two times.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: But the thing is is that, like it took him
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: three years to battle Drias the Third, three years of
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: battle pursuit, battle pursuit, battle pursuit, And there's tons and
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: tons of intrigue behind his This this nemessis this arch
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: nemesis of Derias the Third and Alexander the Great, and
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: there was like they exchanged letters a few times, you know,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: like like in watching this movie, you would never think
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: that there was this this uh you know, like that
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: was his guy. He's just like I'm coming to you.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: I'm coming to get you, you know. Like but like
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: at the at the end of the battle, like you
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: can you know when they say, like, oh no, the
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: left flank is is crumbling. We need to get back
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: and he can either you know, chase Derias or cover
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: his left flank. He chose to cover his left flank,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: but if he didn't, if he chased Duras, he could
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: have saved himself three years. Anyway, long winded way to
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: say that there is a lot that I mean like this,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: there's a reason why they call him Alexander the Great,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: and Stone didn't include everything, and so that bugs some people. Now, John,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: was there anything that confused you while watching this movie? Like,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: because like I know a lot about Alexander the Great,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: and so I can't answer that question so much can
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: you answer the question of like, oh wait, why did
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: he do this? What did this mean?
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Anything like that?
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: I think that the your point there, the through line,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: uh with the pursuit is not strong enough. It would
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: have been great to have that through line through the
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: whole thing so that you had a touch point where
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: he would have conversations every so often and somebody was like, dude,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: calm down, you know, like he invent a rage field,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: like throws the gobblet across the ways, Like why can't
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: I catch this effort right? And it's like, you know,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: people calming him down and couch some of the romantic
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: stuff in that where it's like somebody soothing the savage
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: beast sort of thing. I think that there were some
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: time jumps that, even with the assists of the title cards,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: there was one section in specific where it's like nine
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: years earlier, seven years later, eight years prior. I'm like, waite,
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: nine years, but is it seven years later to the
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: nine years from the time I went there?
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: It could just put the actual year right.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: He knew the exactly exactly.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: Why not because going order.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Guys and that you don't like doing math.
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: Look, look no, but.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: I but the thing is is my anger, Like if
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: it's three thirty and then it's like nine years prior,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: I could do that. Oh, that's three twenty one, right,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: seven years later? Well is it seven years after three
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: thirty or is it seven years after three twenty one,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: which is two years before? You know, that's the jump
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: around part that I'm talking about. That's the part where
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: I think it gets muddy, and I think it's a
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: shame because I was interested in everything that was going on.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: But I think that for somebody who handled the time
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: compression and overlays so expertly in JFK, it was a
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: little shocking to me that he.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: Didn't like that.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: He didn't get that here, and it made me wonder
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: if it's because he didn't have the same editorial team
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: with him that you need that cast of for lack
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: of a better term, that cast of superstars, but not superstars,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: because these editors are any less skilled, but the people
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: who have the all star team that played with Jordan before.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: You got to bring every You gotta bring Pippin and
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Rodman back if you want to get this magic going again.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Because I think that that editing sensibility from JFK could
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: have really worked pretty darn well in some segments here
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: with with with how they handled time jumps and narration.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I think that's a valid criticism because even you know,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: like when you have four cuts of the film, you
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: don't have an excuse anymore, Like you do not have
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the excuse of saying like, oh, well, you know, like
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: me and the editors were rushed in two thousand and four. Okay,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: well right, had you had ten years to make like
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: to make four cuts, So yeah, no excuse. I mean,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I think I can't remember who said it, but a
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: movie is never finished, like you never just abandoned. Yeah exactly,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: it just really and with Yeah, I think that that's
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: definitely something that a lot of audiences didn't enjoy about
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: this movie was the non linear aspect of it because
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: you very much had to go by Alexander's haircut, you know, like, Okay, okay,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: he's got the long hair and the and the scruff.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: He's in India, he's got the short hair. But it's
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: still Colin Farrell, so okay, so like Philip is still alive.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Uh And you're like, okay, it's the young boy, you know, Okay,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: so he's it's it's but it's not the young young boy,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: you know, like it's yeah, you have to you have
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: to match it through. But there's so much juggling that
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: when you feel the need to say nine years later
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: but seven years before this, you know, like it it. Yeah,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: it confuses audiences. And I think some people thought that
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: way about the opening battle. They thought it was with
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: the subtitle saying the Macedonian left and the center and
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: things like that. Thought it was like people thought he
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: was talking down to the audience.
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: Oh wow, See, I didn't. I didn't get that at all.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: I need I didn't get that either, because I wouldn't
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: have known.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: No historians, a lot of historians have have really praised
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: that scene where it's just like at that time with
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: those armies, that's what it looked like, That's what it was.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: This is how he did it. This is how he
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: won a war. Now, granted that's like three battles combined
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: into one, like three, you know, there was different things
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: that happened, but it's all things that Alexander did with
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: his army. And I think that that's really cool to hear,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: like as someone who knows a lot about Alexander and
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: someone who loves this movie, and you know, being burned
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: by the doors and with a lot of things being
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: kind of like up in the air with jfkn Nixon,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: you know, after Red, like, I'm currently reading a biography
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: about Alexander, and I've read Current, I've read previous ones,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: and you know, comparing it to what's going on with
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Alexander was like, Wow, that happened. This happened, you know,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: according to legend, this happened. There's so much that this
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: movie got right.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: So you said you've read these biographies. Have you read
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: the biography that this film attributes a lot of it's
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: material to.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Not specifically that one.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: No.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: I The one that I like the most is it's
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: called Alexander Freeman by excuse me, Alexander the Great by
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Philip Freeman. And he presents it in a very very
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: If you are a friend of the period, or the
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: friend of if you were, if you like the period,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: or you like Alexander at all, I definitely recommend this
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: book because it is he presents he what is facts,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: He presents his facts, and what is legend. He presents
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: his legend. But he never tries to fill you and
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: say like, oh, Alexander totally did this. It's just as
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: far as we know, this is what's going on. And
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: I think that's one thing that Stone does really right here.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: You know, what I really dislike is that I didn't
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: get enough of a feeling about the life, about how
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: important the libraries were to Alexander. Ye, Like it was
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: just sort of a footnote where it's like and we'll
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: put libraries and everywhere, and it's like, well, that's a
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: part of him that I'd like to delve into, is
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: his love of learning and the tragedy of everything. And
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: if I'm very serious, I got a little annoyed by
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: at the end as ptolemy Anthony Hopkins is wrapping up
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: his narration and at the end, you know in the
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: title card is like, oh, by the way, uh yeah,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: whatever was written doesn't exist, And I'm like you jerk,
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: like you absolute come on, man, Like you had me
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: believing that you would basis on some sort of historical
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: record at least. And then at the end it's like, oh,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: this whole framing device is Yeah, it was garbage. It
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: was like, ah, well, think it makes me question the
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: whole framing device. Why did you even have it?
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Then?
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: It wasn't necessary? Was it? Like that sort of thing?
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Well, I felt like it was you're one hund percent right,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Like when you find out that Ptolemy's writings were you know,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: like Anthony hopkins narration wasn't based on anything except what
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: they think Ptolemy thought, right, you know it was I
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: think it's I think it's an excellent framing device because
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: it gives you really great exposition and also gets Tony
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Hopkins to narrate, which I've never opposed to true. And
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like the same way that they used
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Olympias's letters, like it was a real quick and easy
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: way and realistically to showcase like promeneon keep your eye
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: on him, Cassander, you know he's he's an opportunist. You know,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a way to do an
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: exposition dump, but not have it feel like somebody is
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: just monologuing at the camera where you shut it off.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: You're like, no, this is a letter from a mother
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: to the son, and it makes sense. But Darren, did
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: you was there anything where you're just like, oh my god,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: just like you're rolling your eyes at the exposition dumps?
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Was there any framing devices that you didn't like, you know, like,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: what what stood out to you that you're like, this
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: just doesn't work.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I definitely agree with John with sometimes
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: the seven year, two year, nine year prior post it
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: got a little much like that definitely stood out, but
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: I would almost lean the other way. I had a
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: hard time, Okay, I'm not the best with names, and
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: especially when they're all like Macedonian names and they're all
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: like what does h Phil say? And Hercules He's like
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: a lot of yeses, like lots of you know, so
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: I could have used a little bit more. I mean,
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: this is the kind of movie where you know, the
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: haircut matters because that's how you recognize people. And I
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: would have liked more with and I probably but to
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: the name with uh told of me so so Anthony
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: Hopkins' character, I never I'm sure at one point I
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: knew who he was in the past, you know, but
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: I didn't make that connection as strong as I really
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: wanted to. I would have doubled down on that. I
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: would have had him writing some stuff like in the past,
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: like like really make it through his lens. So if
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: you're if you're gonna set it up with the Anthony
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: Hopkins' part, double down with that where you uh really
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: get that point of view and and make him, you know,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: Alexander's confidant and and the one that he you know,
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: if you're if you burned up the scrolls anyway, you
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: could tell whatever story you want. But uh, that's what
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: I would have done, just a little little bit more.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: It's it's interesting, you know, as we were talking about uh,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: you know, home releases and other things, I think this story,
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: especially the way that Stone is telling it would have
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: been an amazing mini series.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, yes, like.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: A sixth part something, you know, like this would have
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: been the thing everyone tuned into and you would and
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: so you could have just even if it was just
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: battle to battle and every episode was a battle, you know,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: tell more of the stories that people know, and so
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: it you know, and we've talked about this before with
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: with House, but yeah, often there are stories that you
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: know that, oh that should have been a TV show,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: like go season after season, like dive into that, you know,
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'll go to Star Wars like the Clone Wars.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: The Clone Wars animated show told a better war story
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: than a single movie. That's like the Clone Wars like
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: that gave us such a rich cast of characters and
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: peoples and places and all of this stuff. So this
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: would have been a great mini series. I don't know
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: where he would have aired it, but I think that
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: would have been great.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: I think I think that's probably in my opinion, and
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: I think the same as yours. Is the best way
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: to tell the story of Alexander is because it from
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty eight BC to three hundred and
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: twenty five BC, he had twenty major engagements, twenty and
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: he won every single one of them. And there is
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: so many amazing stories to be told. And also, you
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: know John, you were talking about, you know about the libraries,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: like he he kept making Alexandria's, Like everywhere, everywhere he went,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: he made an Alexander.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: You didn't see him make Alexandria's.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I mean you didn't agree with those, Yeah.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: He said he did it, but we never ever saw
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: like here's a spire that's in the middle of every Alexander.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I I just would have loved just a scene of
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: him with his mom, like talking about how much he
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: loved books and like they he wished everybody could read,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: or something like like I know how trite that sounds,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: but just like a moment where it establishes how important
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: education was to him.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, but at the same time he does kind of
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: have those moments. I feel like he had that moment
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: with Hefeisten when they I think his first night in
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Babylon where he talks about how he said he's like
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: the people crave change and he wanted to he wanted
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: to conquer Persia to bring the Greek way of life.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Because I mean, but this that, But you're right though
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: that this this wasn't really clear because one big thing
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: that again this is this is Alexander's thinking, not mine.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: But like one reason why he wanted to explore Persia
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: and conquer Persia is not only to regain what was
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: lost in previous one hundred previous years to Xerxes, but
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: to spread Hellenistic way of life. And because in Persia,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: if you were born, if your dad was a shoemaker,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: you were a shoemaker and that was it. That was
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: your line of work. But with but with Alexander, the
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: greats way of life, with Macedonia and the Greek Isles
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: and everything like that, the Greek countries, it was you
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: could write like you were born a shoemaker.
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: Who cares?
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: You can you could be a soldier, you can be
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: a businessman, you'd be whatever, you want to be and
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: that came that came with schooling education, you know, making
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: sure the economy was regulated and everything like that. But
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: we don't really we don't really see that. Again, I'm
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: I'm going on and on, and I was about to
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: counteract your point, but then you know, I started agreeing
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: with you at the same time.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think as that scene does exist,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying like it would have been better as
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: a second scene.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: So that like hitting the points more.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: And that's what's so surprising about a movie this long
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: is I don't have those revisit points that I want
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: or expect, because look, I can sit through a.
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: Three four hour movie. I don't mind. I don't care.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: Like I dragged a friend to go see Kenneth Brandaw's
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: version of Hamlet because I was like, I, oh, I know,
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: isn't it beautiful? But like I was gonna see that
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: movie in movie theater come hell or high water. But
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: I still require maybe you can see this as a shortcoming,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: but you got to hit the point every so often
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: to bring me back up to speed.
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: And that's probably why.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: The jumping around year thing that we were talking about
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: earlier is so disorienting to me is it's not bring
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: me up to speed. It's like, oh, quick, information dump
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: on stuff we haven't told you before. I'm like, wait,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I'm still trying to retain everything I add up to
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: this point. Well, and now all the castings.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: I will say with year. It clicked once you said BC.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: I think that's why he did the nine years prior
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: seven years after, because once you start to put years,
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: the problem is you're BC, so everything's counting down. So
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: if they're like, hey, and you know two hundred and
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: fifty eight and then now it's two hundred and forty three,
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: time has gone forward, but it doesn't look like it,
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: and that would be more confusing. So I think that
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: makes more sense that he said just the years rather
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: than the dates.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Well, ultimately, ideally you would cut it in such a
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: way that I don't need those date cards to begin with,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: where you don't need.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: To leave at the bottom of the screen. The entire
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: time it was little Alexander walking along. I mean, hey,
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: we laugh.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: But you know everybody knows I have a soft spot
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: for Nolan and everything like that. Nolan doesn't do that
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: for me, and he jumps around and I'm like okay,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: and I'm with him. I'm like, okay, okay, okay, I
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: got you, I got you, and I'm going around.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: And everyth and they do.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what country they did that in, but
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: when Inception came out they labeled the dream Layers like
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: they put it like that. Yeah, it was like a
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: lower third where there's just like, oh, this is the
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: second layer. Oh, now you're in the third layer. And
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: it was it was there during the movie, which is insane.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: I cannot remember the country though. Who did that man?
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Well? To that point, I'll ask you, guys. I mean
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: not that it didn't work, but would you watch a
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: cut of this movie that is just straight chronological goes
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: from his youth to the death of his dad, through
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: the battles, no inner cutting or do you think that
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: would just rob it of its great net?
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: That would be a mistake. That would be a mistake
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: with the particular interpretation of Alexander.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I agree you need the jumps, but I just it's
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: just about handling them.
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: It just doesn't stick the landing with it is all.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: But I think I think you you really.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Hit it on the head when you said that there
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: was no through line. It just I think that really
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: that that really illustrates the major failing of this movie,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: and I think why it didn't connect with audiences because
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: you know, if you had a much and I'm not
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: saying it would have made a better film, but I
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: think it would have made a much better mainstream film
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: if it had that through line where it was, you
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna go to Persian. I'm gonna do this.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna kick Torias's ass and like or and I'm
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: gonna spread education to the world. I want i want
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: to spread Hellenism to everybody. This is what I'm gonna do.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: If that was the through line, I think people would
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: have been able to grab onto it. But in Stone's
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Peace in Alexander came out in two thousand and four
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: and subsequent cuts, I think it was much more of
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: an inner workings of the character itself, like his battle
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: with his own demons of his mother and his father.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's kind of the that's the story
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: he wanted to tell, and that's what came across. And
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: so you can't have that through line of Drayahs the Third,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: the Great King, and also because it's there's when you
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: do that as a through line, you have to include
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: so much more. You're like, are you gonna are you
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: gonna talk about how he wasn't able to leave Greece
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: right away, you know, like when he had to work
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: his way to Persia and Asia. You know, like, why
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: aren't we talking about Egypt where he became pharaoh. You know,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: it's just like it's he needed that through line though,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: for somebody, for people to grasp on, for the average
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: movie goorer to grasp on.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: But that sort of peeks through. What you're talking about
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: is there's a There are a couple of great moments
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: later in the film where he's being challenged and all
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: of a sudden he sees his dad and it.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: Like shocks him and.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: It's implied and it probably would have made people extremely uncomfortable,
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: But I think you should have had a couple of
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: moments like that where Rosario Dawson is swapped out with
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Angelina and Joelee even when they're about to be intimate,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: where you see this framing of he knows the story
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: of Oedipus, he knows the warnings of the myths, He's
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: obsessed with the myths, and you start to see these
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: echoes in his life, and he starts to see the
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: echoes and lean into a little more of the trippy
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: stuff that he did with say the beginning of the
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Doors to emphasize you know, those sorts of things. But
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: I mean as a whole, you know, Darren, I don't
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: think a linear version of this could ever work. It
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: needs to jump, it needs to go around.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: And I wasn't necessarily saying that was my view. I
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: was just curious what your guy's view was, because sometimes
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: that could tie up a lot of the issues because
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: it just, oh, it's like, oh what years as well,
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: it's obviously after what we just saw because he's getting
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: older and then you have to jump to uh, you know,
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: a jump in actors. But yeah, it it's It's one
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: of those talkings that you would talk about in film school,
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: Like I could see people cutting into this movie because
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: there's a lot to kind of like introspect on.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: I think that would be a lot of fun too,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: because when you when you only tackle the greats, if
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: you only analyze Godfather and Citizen Kane, you know, like
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: how much can you learn? But like if you if
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: you look on stuff that didn't work but yet still
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: has good qualities, it gives you more of a conversation.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: And you know, that's one of the reasons why we don't.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: Just we should podcast about that.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we don't just review five star films. But
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about the actress a little bit.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: We haven't really talked about the performances too much. So
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: let's start at the top. Let's start with the Irish
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Alexander the Great. So one of the reasons Colin Ferrell
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: could not get rid of his Irish accent, and so
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Stone is like, okay, everybody else do an Irish accent,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: and like, okay, yeah, And that's that's why Val Kilmer
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: is Philip has an Irish accent. That's why young the
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: young actor who plays Alexander had an Irish accent. That's
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: why that's where Jared Leto as Sefeisten has a little
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: bit of an Irish accent. Is because they all tried
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: to make it sound like, Okay.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: Not Irish, it's Macedonian.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: But that's the thing, though, is it, like we're people.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: People complain about that, But that's the thing is that
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: like he wouldn't have an American accent, you know, like
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: you know, what does it matter? And also people complained
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: about Angeloline and Jolie's accent, saying like that doesn't sound
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: like ancient Greek. I was like, yeah, but she's she
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: wasn't from Macedonia, you know, so they were just trying
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: to say that she was a foreigner.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Listen, one of my favorite movies from childhood is Highlander,
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: and if I could live with Sean Connery being a
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: three thousand year old Egyptian harsh yeah what is Yeah, yeah,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: the Scottish guy's never heard of it. But like the
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: thing is, instead of leaning that way, I would have
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: gone more like that Hercule Poirot series where nobody tries
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: an accent. Just speak in your normal voice, and that
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: way the conceit doesn't fall apart. It's just there. It's
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: just we're not trying because Greek people, when they speak Greek,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: they don't hear oh I have a Greek accent. That's
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: just normal speaking to them. So if we're going to
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: translate it into English to begin with, just everybody just
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: don't bother, just show up and just speak how you speak.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Well, just like that scene when when Alexander meets but
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: goes for the first time and goes speaking Eliash with
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: a heavy Spanish accent, and he goes, oh, you speak
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: our language. He's like, yes, great king, you know, like, yeah,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: they're speaking English, but we hear that, you know, Like
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: it's when you try to unravel it the whole, when
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: you pull in the thread, the whole thing unravels. It
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: was just like the whole. The whole thing about accents
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: and movies is just insane to me. But anyway, regardless
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: of accent, what did you guys think, Like, like, Darren,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: what did you think about Colin Ferrell as Alexander? Did
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: you think he pulled off this leader, this great king,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: this want to be emperor?
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: He us? But I can never not see Colin Farrell
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: every single frame like he He does not lose himself
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: in the And I think that's just because of who
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: Colin Farrell is and nothing against him or his acting.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: It's not the kind of actor that can disappear.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: It just won't.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: Until recently with well Man without heavy prosthetics and makeup. Okay,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: but that is that is true, okay the Penguin, Yes, two.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Thousand and four. To be fair to you, Darren, two
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: thousand and four, Colin Farrell could not have done what
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, Colin Farrell did at the Penglin.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: Absolutely so yes, at this time he sticks out like
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: a sore thumb, but I don't mind it because he
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: acts very well like I. It's an interesting We were
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: talking a lot about, you know, people for Alexander to
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: talk to to give us insight, but that's really hard
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: because he's a very lonely character. He has a lot
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: of turmoil, a lot of inner thoughts, but we don't
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: have internal dialogue, so he has to convey all of
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: that on his face, on the way he looks at people,
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: his interactions. He's kind of crazy. I mean, he's a
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: little nuts, you know, for what he's Alexander is. But no,
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: I really enjoyed Collins. It's not one of those cases
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: where I'm trying to think back to two thousand and
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: four and thinking who else in the star lineup I
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: would have put in this. I can't really think of anyone.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: But I think he did a great job.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: I think Ferrell did what was asked of him. But
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: I'll fault Stone because Alexander didn't feel, in certain key
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: moments like a great leader or somebody who was going
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: to inspire somebody to charge into battle. There was just
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: something about his demeanor that he was a very interesting character.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: He was very believable human being. But I never saw
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: him turn on that gear of I I'm on the
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm thirsty for blood and you'd better be
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: thirsty for blood too, and everybody, you know, with that
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: brave heart yells like, ah, yeah, we're gonna eat everybody alive.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: We're gonna come at Like that's the sort of gear
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: that I never saw from Perrell.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: I will counter that, I know where you're going, John.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: I think, and I don't know if this is how
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: Alexander really was, but I think the way Stone portrayed
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: him was not the rousing speech, but the I know
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: my men kind of leader. Like he was always like
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: grasping someone knew his name, knew his dad, was like, hey,
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: you've served with me this long, Like let's go kick butt.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: And he did that enough throughout the entire movie that
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: I'm like, that's the kind of that's how he inspired
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: the men. It wasn't the big speech, it was the
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: you know and then and then at the end, it's
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: like I'm gonna ride in and what you guy, what
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: we need to do against the elephants and you know
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: that's the most rousing They're gonna follow his banner moment
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: of the whole movie.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I I'm not I'm not looking for the brave
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: heart speech. I'm just looking for that extra gear and
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: it's it's it's a it's a hard one for me
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: to put into words, but it's like I just never
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: saw that that gear shift up where I was like,
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: all right, we're in turbo mode now, and I think
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: it's a very complicated role. Obviously Stone's asking for a
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: lot of nuance here, and I just think it was
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: you know, Colin Farrell now does this role without even
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: thinking about it. Colin Farrell, then I don't know if
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: he was right for it's not twenty five. So that's
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: that's a minor problem.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: The holy problem is you have to put a young
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: actor in this role because he's not that old.
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's interesting that you say that, Darren,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: because that was a key component of Alexander's leadership, Like
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: the real Alexander was that he knew his men. He
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: knew his men, he fought with his men. He was
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: always on the front lines, he was always going in
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: a battle with them, and he took the time to
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: understand them and their families, their goals, their once, their desires,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: even their mistresses, you know, everything like that. And and John,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: it was it was definitely a conscious decision by Stone too.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying you're saying this, but it was
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: a conscious decision by Stone to make Colin Ferrell's performance
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: of Alexander not macho, not that bloodthirsty. You know, let's
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: go up there, like he wanted a much more sensitive
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: man like to kind of play on that and this
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: is his words, like play on that bisexuality of not
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: necessarily in terms of sexual attraction, but the bisexuality of
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: the masculine and the feminine, where this is a man
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: who was raised by not only Philip the second but
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: also Olympias and you know, and so like it was
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: it was kind of that situation. So I can see
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: where you're coming from and also know that, like, you're
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: not off base, because that was a conscious decision. Now
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: whether that worked or not is totally up to the viewer,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: but that your insight doesn't come out of anywhere, doesn't
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: come out of nowhere, That's what I'm saying.
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: Well, I appreciate that, no I like it.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: You know, I appreciate as well that that Stone is
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: trying to show, like I said, that a much more
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: believable human being. And you know, maybe it's just my
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: habit or something, but it's like, I've never gone into battle,
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: but I have followed people into crazy things before, and
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: there is that extra adrenaline rush you got to get
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: out of somebody to risk your butt to do something.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: So now, now, John, do you think that Philip the
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Second val Kilmer's and you know, portrayal of Philip the Second,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: do you think you'd follow that guy in the battle.
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: Not not in a thousand years.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: I think that that Kilmer almost does like a riff
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: on Morrison in this.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: I don't see that at all. You said that earlier.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: I don't see that. I I hear a little bit
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: of it. No, I'm not saying it as a slight.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. I'm saying
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: this is like taking all those negative the drunkard, the
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: horrible person, the blow hard, all that type of stuff
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: and just cranking it all the way up. And I'm
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: just seeing that that guy that's always uh, you know, too.
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: Much for people to handle, sort of thing, and I think.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: That I saw it when he picked up the loot
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: and just started shredding. It was so amazing.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: But but what I enjoyed as well was like Kilmer
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: had that I wish it had happened maybe earlier in
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: the film, when you had that almost quasi tender moment
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: where he took him down into the underground and started
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: explaining the myths to him, Like I almost felt like
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: I could have used this earlier in the movie for
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: me to understand why Alexander had any loyalty to this
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: guy before this point, Like that it.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Was that was not enough build and that was that
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: was a big And also in previous cuts that was
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: spliced up into two separate moments. Interesting and in the
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: ultimate cut, I think the final cut too, they put
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: it together as one and also expanded it and reorganized
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: it a little bit internally. And this is one of
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: my favorite scenes. I really feel like Kilmer just really
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: understood Philip the second in that moment and the Beaucephalus
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: scene where it tames the horse. I mean that according
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: to history, that actually happened. That scene happened the way
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: that it did, and Alexander loved Bucephalus so much that
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: when his horse died, he named a town after his horse.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: And it's just like that, that's how important that moment
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: was to him. And also Philip the Second, that's how
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: important horses was to him too, So like that was
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: that was one of those things that bridged them together.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Because on the day of Alexander's birth, a messenger came
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: and told him. I was like, it's like, hey, two
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: great things happened today. The horse that you sponsored one
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: the race and it was a huge, big deal. He's like,
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: and your son was born. He's like, fantastic, strike a
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: coin to commemorate this fantastic day. I love that horse. Yeah,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: that that's who Philip the Second was. And so when
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: you know, when Alexander did something great like tame a
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: horse that people said couldn't be tamed and he was
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: so young, is like, I like that that kind of
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: led to that cave scene. But because we're jumping around,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: we don't really have that because like we see that
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: drunken blowhard and everything like that, and also the scene
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: where he tries to sexually assault Olympias that you know,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: according to history that actually happened where Alexander was there,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: Philip didn't know he was there. And also there were
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: snakes in the bed and all, and like people came
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: in and said, like Philip, you can't do this. This
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: is insane, this is disgusting. And he's like he's drunk
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: and raving blah blah blah blah blah, and so like
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: that impacts you because, like I love stones editing of
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: that moment because like, you know, Alexander's young, he's in bed,
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: he's with his mom, you know, like it's all soft
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: and everything like that, and all of a sudden, this
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: drunken blowhard comes in and just tears everything down to pieces,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: and it's this weird dichotomy of Alexander as an individual.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean it speaks to the culture of the
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: time as well, because if I'm remembering correctly, children were
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: considered not worth speaking to until they were like seven
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: years old, and so Alexander would have been not really
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: interacting with Philip by that point. I might have my
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: time periods a little off, but I see I remember
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: that from a history class where it was like once
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: boys hit the age of seven, then it was like okay,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: you can you'r rational now. You can come on out
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: into the world or something like that. You know, I'm
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: not quite sure. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: don't know. I don't remember reading that again, I don't know. Yeah,
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure. But what did you Darren? Did you
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: like Angelina and Julia's Olympius? Did you think she is
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: too mustache twirling? Did you where you just were you
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: just like, oh, that's sting and Julie and Julia in
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: an accent? Like what did you think of that portrayal?
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: What?
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: What did It's a two part question. What did you
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: think of Julie's performance? And what did you think of
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: Olympia as being such an anchor in the story of
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: Alexander in Stone's interpretation.
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: No, I mean, as we've said, like the letters from
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: her to him are imperative to understanding like kind of
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: what's going on the political climate, very you know, Games
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: of Throne, House of Cards kind of vibes like she
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: she is all politics and alex That's the other thing
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: with Alexander, He's he's like, at least as he's shown,
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: it's like no politics. So the fact that they actually
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: share very few scenes in the same location. But I mean,
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: one of my favorite shots is when who is it was?
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: It wasn't Alexander, it was someone else was, or maybe
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: it was I'm I'm blinking, but someone was confronting her
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: and and Jelina's Jeff and Jelina Jolie's face is just normal,
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: but the reflection in like the pool of water next
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: to them, She's like grinning maniacally, and and then it
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: cuts and it shows do you remember who she was
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: arguing with? Was it Alexander?
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: I don't think, Yeah, it was Alexander.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Alexander saw the reflection, But that and that, and the
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: thing is that's a trick that he plays with Philip later,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: the substitution, and that's something that you see him doing
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Nixon and even in JFK as well, where the person's
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: true face is revealed in a certain moment even though
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: the you know, dialogue is still going on. The soundtrack
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: is uninterrupted, but you see the person see through the
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: veil of the person that they're interacting with. Yeah, you know,
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: those are the moments that I'm latching onto where I'm
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: like I wanted more of those.
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, throughout the mid little.
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: More, you know, it's a little a little more epic
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: poem ish, you know, embellish a little bit like you know,
• 56:07
  Speaker 5: we almost I mean, I know this was a real man,
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: but we almost need like a monster or something that
• 56:12
  Speaker 5: was driving him that he was running from, you know,
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: some jackal that you know pursued him across the plane.
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: Because you know, yeah, you have that moment with his mother,
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: but you also had where he saw the face of
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: a Medusa in the jug of wine at the very end,
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: which you know, I was very telegraphed of like this
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: is your death, like if you drink this, like and
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: that's a yeah, that part got better towards the end.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: But yeah, but overall, you to your question, Tristan, I
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: think she was definitely utilized well because she was setting
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: the stage for like the politics for what he was
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: up against. I can't imagine like if that role got
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: plucked out, like you would be even more lost. I
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: mean we talked about no through line. Without that, you
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: would just be rudderless in this story.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, And when you guys were talking about the like
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: the showing the true faces, and that was one thing
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: I really enjoyed about the editing style was that every
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: once in a while, this person would still be talking,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: but yet you'd see a close up of their face
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: and they weren't talking like this, it was. It was
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: it's not done very often. It's like almost like a
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: coverage shot, but yet that individual is still speaking. And
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: I think that did a really great job of doing
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: that with Olympius. And also when when Alexander threw the
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: wine at him, the wine goblet at a talless, like
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: they were arguing back and forth, and when he's saying
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: he's like finally a legitimate son and you know, like
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: a wife. You know, Philip can be proud of you know,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Like while he's screaming that, we see a shot of
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: a talless staring at Alexander. It's like it's it's the
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: visual language of this is directed at me, like I'm
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: I'm being insulted right now, and Philip's doing nothing about it.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: And that was a scene that actually happened according to history.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: That was a real scene and filled with many real quotes,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: like when like when Philip fell off, he says like
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: this is the man that you think is going to
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: take you to Asia. I mean, you can't even go
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: from one couch to the next. That's a real quote
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: from Alexander and yeah, so like that's one thing I.
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: Really really enjoyed.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: Men Burns Mennonite. I think you mean Macedonian.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: Macedonians, sickest of Macedonian burns. He took his his glasses
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: off and dropped him.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: But that was that was one of the things. Like editing.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: The editing of this movie is definitely one of my
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: favorite things, specifically for moments like that. Now, John, I
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: would love to ask you about the music. Oh what
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: what what did you think about this music?
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: Magnificent score and through the entire thing. I was sitting
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: there and I shared this with you prior to this
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: where the entire time I'm sitting there, I'm like, man,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: this is a great scores.
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: Really sounds like Vangelis. I bet you this.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: Ah, it's probably not, but this really sounds like they're
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: going for Evangelis. And then at the end, you know,
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: composed by Vangelis. I was like, yes, I was right,
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: and boy was I right. I was absolutely thrilled by the.
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: Score.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: I thought this is now, we haven't done a whole
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: lot with Stone, but I loved Williams's score for JFK.
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: Nixon.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: Eh, whatever, But then this is like this is whatever.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: Other flaws might exist for this movie. He got the
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: right person to score this for him. This is every
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: bit as epic and memorable a score as it needs
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: to be for a Sword in Sandals.
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: Epic. That's my take on it.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: I agree one hundred percent. Like this is this is
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: a soundtrack. I should say a score that I listened
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: to often, that I'll have in the background, like if
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: I'm reading or yeah, or just like hanging out or
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: working like this is something that this is one where
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: I can absolutely visualize what's going on when I'm listening
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: to it, and I think that's I'm not saying that's
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: the best sign of a great score, but it's I think,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, one of the great Yeah, like it's yeah.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: So Darren, did you feel the same way. Did you
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: enjoy the score?
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah? No, I really did. I think I did. Look
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: up Evangelist and I'm like, oh, look, fourteen ninety two
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: God Goes a Paradise our favorite. But you know that
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: was more about all the other aspects of that movie
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: as opposed to the score. But yeah, he's done Chairs
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: of Fire, you have Blade Runner bits, you have Alexander
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: the Bounty. So yeah, this was really good score.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: I can't even imagine Blade Runner without evangelism.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: Oh no, and the whole dispute he's had with the
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: producers and everything through the years and everything like that's
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: just a shame that he felt. Yeah, anyway, that's a
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: different podcast.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: Never mind never.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: Mind, well, same podcast, different director. Y.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, So we've been going for an hour and five minutes.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: We're just started, guys. It's gonna go full three twenty.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: I know, and I feel like we've barely scratched the
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: surface on discussing this film, and I need to come
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: clean with you guys. This week I watched it twice.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: I watched the director's cut, and then I watched the
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: ultimate cut with the director's commentary on. And then I
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: watched the full length documentary that is Sun did about
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: the making of Alex Sanders. It's not very good, don't
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: watch it. But this is a movie I could talk
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: about four friggin' ever. But we have to we have
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: to abandon the project. We can't do four cuts of
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: this podcast now before we go, before we get into
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: final thoughts, I want you guys to quickly tell me
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: so from moving forward, Like when someone says, hey, have
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: you ever seen Alexander. What's the scene that pops into
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: your brain?
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: The thing is, there's a lot and that's to its credit,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: like it's but what scene absolutely pops for me where
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: I think that's an amazing scene. That's the scene that
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: I would use to try to sell somebody. Is actually
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: a very quiet scene where they're on the mountaintop, beautifully
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: shot all of this snow. He's in a red cloak
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: and I think it has told me comes up to
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: him and says, you know that peak over there that's
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: where they say that's where Prometheus is and they're up
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: above him is an eagle's nest where he comes down
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: and pecks out his liver every night. That's a scene
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: that I would use actually to sell people on it
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: because this is a sword and santale epic. That is
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: not what you expect and small moments like that are why.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: So that's the scene that I would use to sell
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: it to be like, you're gonna get something that's a
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: little more nuanced and in depth about a historical figure
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: than you're used to.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Darren, What what pups? What pups in your brain?
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's so hard because there is there
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: is a lot this This movie also has the ability
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: of not feeling like a special effects heavy movie. It
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: just feels like you're you stuck a camera back in time.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: All the special effects are just hidden in the best
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: way possible. But it might be a cliche, but the
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: the end charge is just so incredible when he with
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: the color starts to shift and and he's just like,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm now granted, you know, he's not speeching
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: it up as much as he should, and I'm totally
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: interjecting like speeches from Lord of the Rings and Ride
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: to Ruin and Red Dawns, which should have been there.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: But besides the speech part, uh there there because there's
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: a shift. You feel the shift of like I have
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: to go to my men and there's a lot of
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: people are gonna die right now, Like this is not
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: going well. Uh yeah, that moment. If I had to
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: say the counter to that, I think the tiny footnote
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: of he shouldn't have gone in.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: The desert and he lost a lot of men, like
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: it was the biggest blunder of his life.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, So we're not
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: talking about the biggest blunder of his life, but what Yeah,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: that felt way glossed over, way glossed over.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: I personally think they spent too much time in India.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah kind of.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: I was just like, you're really, you're not going to
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: talk about the Siege of Tire or Persepolis or all
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: the Alexandria's that they built, but you're going to spend
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: that much time and in India where he got his
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: ask kicked.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: Well, and like or or again with the Alexandrias, show
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: be one being built and show time progressing in him
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: falling in love with the people, and and then like, hey, guys,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: we got to keep going. And they're like why not,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: Like why not have this be the edge of your empire?
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: This is a perfectly good spot. You know, more of that,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: but you know that's just wishful thinking.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: Now, before we get into Lance Reddick and final thoughts,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: one thing I need to share with you guys that
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: I think is is hilarious that Alexander actually did this,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: and it's there's there's so many things that they didn't
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: include where you're just like, man, this this guy Alexander.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know about him, but there was a time
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: when when I think when Drias first ran away and
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Alexander captured Babylon, captured Durias, his mother, his sister, two sisters,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: maybe I think I can't remember. And Daria sent Alexander
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: a letter saying, listen, if you stop now, you can
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: have everything that you've taken of the Persian Empire. You
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: can have Babylon. And Babylon's just that's like it's like
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: if somebody invaded America and they said, you can keep
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: New York City if you want, just leave us alone.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: Like you can keep New York, you can keep Washington,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: but just leave us alone. And Alexander didn't show anybody
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: else the letter and said, uh, I got a letter
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: from Darias, and uh he called all of you guys
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: jerks and that he hates you, right like he called
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: us jerks. He's like, yeah, he totally did.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: And that you're like, you're totally making this sound like
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: an episode of the Office, but that totally I'm here
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: for the vibe.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: But like that, like like that's that's what he did.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: Like like every single per every single general in his
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: army would have been crazy rich and they wouldn't have
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: had to travel any further and they would have conquered
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: a huge portion of the Persian Empire, and they called
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: it all wins, all winds, and Alexander's like, no, not enough.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: I want all of Persia, I want Durias, I want
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: all of it. And he lied about the contents of
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: the letter, and I just there's so many times when
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: Alexander did stuff like that that makes you just Gulley Man,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: that's insane, but wasn't covered by Stone. Okay. So, as
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: we always do every single week, because we're huge Lance
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: Reddick fans and we believe that every movie is improved
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: with Lance Reddick, we try to come up with a
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: replacement casting Where where could we see Lance Reddick in Alexander?
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: And this is not a negative comment on any of
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: the actors. It's just like, you know, Lance Reddick, of
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: any age, at any time, where would we put him? Now, John,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go with you. No, I'm gonna go
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: with Darren First, Darren, where would you put Lance Reddick?
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, again, it's often difficult to place lance in a
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: historical context. But I would have liked to see him
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: try the scene with Aristotle. So I'm doing a swap
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: for Christopher Plumber. We didn't have a lot of roles,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: so it's a little easier to to drop it or
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: did a not a lot of screen time, but just
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: that that teacher voice that like, you know, talking to
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: young boys and stuff. And again, if we're trying to
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: spin it, we could throw in something of like a
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: scholar from another land as teaching whatever, but that doesn't
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: really matter. I think Lance would have been just perfectly
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: dropped into that role.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: Same choice from me.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: Really, yep, I would have I would have dropped him
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: in as Aristotle. I think it would have been really
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: interesting to see. Again, like you said, doesn't take anything
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: away from Plumber, but I like the idea of him
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: as Aristotle and you know, talking about any historicity or anything.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: Like we mentioned earlier, everybody has an Irish accent.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: Who cares.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: I actually would have gone with Clitus. Clitus is the
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: is the guy who got super pissed off that he
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: had a sound trap so far away from his homeland
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: and alexand they're actually murders with a spear and uh,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: he was the he was Philip the seconds Man, and
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: he saved Alexander's life. He was much older than Alexander,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: you know, looked after him, but at the same time
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: was disappointed the way that Alexander was going so straying
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: from Philip's vision and you know, ended up getting murdered
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: by Alexander. I I feel like Reddick could have done
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: the very Mentor esque thing like listen, boy, like you know,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: like I saved your life, you know, like I can
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: take it away again, like it's very much the I'm
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: older and wiser than you. You need to watch out
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: for me. And at the same time giving that raw anger,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: that drunken rage to Alexander in his final scene. Okay,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: that's just me.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 4: That's just me.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: I want to see people carrying Lance Reddick out as
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: he's yelling at Alexander the Great that's right right there.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: I'm sold exactly see.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing like that, and that's a that's
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: a real according to known history, that's a real scene
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: like that actually happened. And and I love how hafution
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: is like, for the love of the gods, get him
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: out of here.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: So, Darren, what do you I'm making you go first?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: How many alexandritions are you giving this film?
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: This was an interesting one because, like I mentioned before,
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: you know, visually beautiful movie. Obviously special effects are involved,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: but I couldn't see him, you know that just I
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: just felt like you dropped a camera in something BC
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: and we're just but but the story and the time
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: jumping and the lack of line, you know, it's not
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: a movie. I'm not going to be like you, Tristan.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to watch it like three times and
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: three different versions on one afternoon. I do get the
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: in the background, that's a maybe possibility, my background. I
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: call it my packing movie.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: If I'm just packing for a trip, it's usually Lord
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: of the Rings extended editions because you know those just play.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm going to give it a three. I
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: feel I liked it better than Nixon. Nixon was a
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: little more all over the place for me, a little
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: less Anthony Hopkins in this one. So maybe that's it.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: But no, I have to give it credit for what
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: it did accomplish and and you know, from score to
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: acting to a lot of the good aspects, even though
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: it wasn't a commercial success in the box office. So
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: I'm going to give it three. Alexandria's Alexandretta. Here's another
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: movie I want to watch instead, So.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, John, same question.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: This is a movie that could have been better in
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: a number of ways, but is nonetheless fascinating and kept
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: my attention through the entire thing. So it's one of
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: those things where I was stunned how long the opening
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: battle went, and I mean I was like, what, how
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: deep my indo this thing? Before I'm even getting anything
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: besides a fight, And I was like that, that's a
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: bold choice. That's a really bold choice. So it's a
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: very interesting I might like it more if I watch
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: it again sort of vibe to this. So it comes
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: in with a three point five from me.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: I think you guys have given a lot of really
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: interesting points, and I like, I told you guys beforehand
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: off Mike that even though this is my the doors,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: U and John did a great job of taking criticism
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: with stride, saying like, yup, totally get it. Yep, yep,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: that sucked too, that didn't happen. I told myself I
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: was going to be the same way. And that's the
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: thing is that, like, this is a deeply flawed movie.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: This is not a five star film at all. Like
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: there's so much wrong with it, and there's so much
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: that could have on differently, and he could have done that,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: Stone could have gone better and we've been We're man,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: we're almost at the one hour and twenty minute mark.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: We didn't even talk about about Rosario Dawson's portrayal, or
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: Jared Leto or John Reyce Davies or not johnrey Davis,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: John Reyes Myers, you know, like we didn't talk about
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: any of those people. There's so much to this, uh
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: but there. I think that through line is its main
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: point against it, and so I'm gonna give it five stars.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: Fair enough that knew that, knew that was coming, knew.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the thing is just like, this is
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: not a five star film.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 4: It's not.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: It's not, guys, but I am so obsessed with it.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: I am choosing not to be rational and I'm giving
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: it five stars.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: I gave five stars to Stargate. And you want to
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: talk about movie with like flaws and issues like yeah,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: of course is it perfect by your perfect scale twist
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: and no, but we're allowed to just slap a It's
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 3: like you're reaching for whatever number and it's like, oh,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: paulp Sorry, I hit the five.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: Oh oh I Sleph, sorry, that is what that is?
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: What's happening tonight now, Darren? What are we doing next
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: week because we are closing the door on the House
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: of Stone.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: We are and next we're going with slightly shorter movies,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: but it's going to be a really interesting time as
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: we go to the House of Cosmotose here on house
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: Lights next week, starting with Rambo First Blood Part two.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: Join the Revolution, Join the net Party,