Latest / Motor Trade Radio / ⚡ BONUS EPISODE: "Vertu CEO Robert Forrester joins Curtis and Philip to share his views on the ZEV Mandate consultation! (E50, S12)

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⚡ BONUS EPISODE: "Vertu CEO Robert Forrester joins Curtis and Philip to share his views on the ZEV Mandate consultation! (E50, S12) · Motor Trade Radio

• 0:06
  Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Motor
• 0:07
  Speaker: Trade Radio podcast powered by
• 0:10
  Speaker: Cazoo.
• 0:11
  Speaker: With Philip Lockhart and Curtis Hutchinson bringing you all the
• 0:15
  Speaker: chatter that matters across the car retailing sector from
• 0:20
  Speaker: factory to forecourt.
• 0:26
  Speaker: Hello and welcome to this special bonus episode of Motor
• 0:30
  Speaker: Trade Radio today.
• 0:31
  Speaker: We're delighted to welcome back to the pod, Robert Forrester,
• 0:35
  Speaker: CEO of Virtue Motors.
• 0:37
  Speaker: Robert's joining us to discuss
• 0:39
  Speaker: the latest developments with the
• 0:41
  Speaker: Zev mandate.
• 0:43
  Speaker: Now Robert's consistently spoken
• 0:45
  Speaker: out about the way the Zev
• 0:47
  Speaker: mandate was introduced and
• 0:49
  Speaker: subsequently enforced, citing
• 0:52
  Speaker: the damage it is doing to the
• 0:54
  Speaker: automotive, retailing and
• 0:56
  Speaker: manufacturing sectors.
• 0:58
  Speaker: So following a week of speculation last Friday, Andy
• 1:03
  Speaker: Burnham's new administration confirmed it had brought forward
• 1:07
  Speaker: the review of the Zev mandate, which was expected next year,
• 1:12
  Speaker: and it has started a consultation process on whether
• 1:17
  Speaker: to soften targets for EV sales.
• 1:20
  Speaker: An acknowledgement that the government's targets are not
• 1:24
  Speaker: being achieved now.
• 1:26
  Speaker: The consultation will include
• 1:28
  Speaker: carmakers, suppliers, retailers,
• 1:31
  Speaker: charging companies and other key
• 1:34
  Speaker: stakeholders.
• 1:35
  Speaker: Now, without going into the minutiae, it's a fairly complex
• 1:39
  Speaker: five stage process involving central and devolved governments
• 1:45
  Speaker: with a deadline of the twenty third of October.
• 1:49
  Speaker: So the clock is very much ticking.
• 1:52
  Speaker: Welcome back, Robert, and thanks
• 1:54
  Speaker: for joining us for the Zev
• 1:56
  Speaker: mandate update.
• 1:59
  Speaker: Always a pleasure.
• 2:00
  Speaker: One day I'd like to come on here and not talk about this.
• 2:03
  Speaker: Yes.
• 2:04
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 2:04
  Speaker: Talk about Zev mandate and EVs in general.
• 2:07
  Speaker: Maybe one day.
• 2:09
  Speaker: To be fair, there'll be something else.
• 2:13
  Speaker: There'll be something else that
• 2:14
  Speaker: we're repeating on a regular
• 2:15
  Speaker: basis.
• 2:16
  Speaker: We've.
• 2:16
  Speaker: We've seen it.
• 2:17
  Speaker: You never know.
• 2:18
  Speaker: Dieselgate might return one day and we'll regret it.
• 2:22
  Speaker: But yeah.
• 2:22
  Speaker: No, I mean, welcome back.
• 2:24
  Speaker: And and thought it was an apt time, particularly after that
• 2:27
  Speaker: announcement that appeared the other weekend quite quietly, um,
• 2:32
  Speaker: on I think it was brought by the Sunday Times and sort of not a
• 2:35
  Speaker: lot of, uh, the sector picked up on it at the time, but I know it
• 2:39
  Speaker: was something that has been obviously close to you.
• 2:42
  Speaker: So I think to begin with, let's start with some context on, you
• 2:47
  Speaker: know, how the, the Zev mandate is currently impacting the car
• 2:51
  Speaker: and van retailing sector and yourself, Robert, as the CEO of
• 2:55
  Speaker: one of the UK's largest franchise dealer groups.
• 2:59
  Speaker: I mean, what impact is the Zev
• 3:01
  Speaker: mandate having on your your
• 3:03
  Speaker: business?
• 3:05
  Speaker: Well, you'd have to live on the moon not to understand the
• 3:09
  Speaker: impact of the state intervention in completely upending the
• 3:13
  Speaker: normal rules of capitalism, where supply and demand dictate
• 3:18
  Speaker: how much is produced and how much is sold, and the price at
• 3:22
  Speaker: which it is sold at.
• 3:23
  Speaker: And it works very, very well.
• 3:25
  Speaker: Adam Smith was not incorrect.
• 3:28
  Speaker: What we've actually ended up
• 3:29
  Speaker: with is unfortunately, a
• 3:32
  Speaker: complete lack of understanding
• 3:34
  Speaker: of basic economics by the
• 3:36
  Speaker: government, aided in abetted by
• 3:39
  Speaker: quite ideological lobby groups,
• 3:43
  Speaker: particularly around EV charging,
• 3:45
  Speaker: actually, that imposed on the UK
• 3:49
  Speaker: sector.
• 3:49
  Speaker: But in fairness, there were not
• 3:50
  Speaker: dissimilar arrangements in
• 3:52
  Speaker: America and Europe at one time,
• 3:54
  Speaker: which says you have to sell more
• 3:56
  Speaker: electric vehicles or you have
• 3:57
  Speaker: massive fines and the impact of
• 3:59
  Speaker: that on normal demand and supply
• 4:01
  Speaker: curves is anybody who studied
• 4:02
  Speaker: economics will say it causes
• 4:04
  Speaker: massive dislocation.
• 4:06
  Speaker: In the case of the UK market,
• 4:07
  Speaker: which had the most vicious
• 4:09
  Speaker: targets and the most vicious
• 4:10
  Speaker: fines, it therefore had the most
• 4:11
  Speaker: vicious impacts.
• 4:13
  Speaker: And the upshot is that
• 4:14
  Speaker: everyone's had to sell electric
• 4:16
  Speaker: vehicles at massive discounts to
• 4:17
  Speaker: try and create demand, to get
• 4:20
  Speaker: close to the targets or be faced
• 4:23
  Speaker: by fifteen thousand pounds or
• 4:27
  Speaker: twelve thousand pounds of
• 4:28
  Speaker: vehicle fines, depending on cars
• 4:29
  Speaker: and vans.
• 4:30
  Speaker: And actually cars were fifteen thousand pounds at one point.
• 4:32
  Speaker: And the upshot is everyone has
• 4:34
  Speaker: had to discount massively and
• 4:37
  Speaker: the profit pool for the
• 4:39
  Speaker: automotive sector, from parts
• 4:41
  Speaker: all the way through to retail
• 4:42
  Speaker: has been significantly eroded,
• 4:45
  Speaker: and that has then has an impact
• 4:47
  Speaker: on jobs, viability, investment
• 4:50
  Speaker: and the and the UK automotive
• 4:52
  Speaker: sector has not turned up in
• 4:54
  Speaker: terms of driving economic growth
• 4:56
  Speaker: in the UK, As have many other
• 4:58
  Speaker: sectors not turned up for not
• 5:00
  Speaker: unknown reasons.
• 5:02
  Speaker: Government policy has been
• 5:04
  Speaker: delusional and this consultation
• 5:06
  Speaker: is a good acknowledgement of
• 5:07
  Speaker: that.
• 5:08
  Speaker: I don't think it's the end of the story.
• 5:09
  Speaker: I think this is an ongoing thing we've got to do.
• 5:12
  Speaker: But the sector would have faced catastrophic scenarios had
• 5:18
  Speaker: something not been done.
• 5:19
  Speaker: Now nothing's been done apart from consultation.
• 5:21
  Speaker: But the direction of travel is
• 5:22
  Speaker: broadly clear and it's to be
• 5:24
  Speaker: welcomed.
• 5:25
  Speaker: And I mean, obviously, you know, we've had the electric car
• 5:29
  Speaker: grant, which, you know, look a quite a significant amount of
• 5:35
  Speaker: money from the Treasury to support the growth.
• 5:39
  Speaker: Well, not really, not really.
• 5:41
  Speaker: No, not the money that was put
• 5:42
  Speaker: on the table was a drop in the
• 5:44
  Speaker: ocean compared to the level of
• 5:45
  Speaker: discounting reported by the
• 5:46
  Speaker: Smmt.
• 5:47
  Speaker: I mean, let's talk facts.
• 5:48
  Speaker: I mean it's in the billions.
• 5:50
  Speaker: Were we.
• 5:50
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 5:51
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 5:51
  Speaker: We're not in the billions.
• 5:52
  Speaker: The manufacturers have written
• 5:54
  Speaker: off each year broadly Five
• 5:56
  Speaker: billion on discount electric
• 5:58
  Speaker: vehicles to try and stimulate
• 5:59
  Speaker: demand.
• 6:00
  Speaker: They've invested billions in in the R&D and the investment in
• 6:04
  Speaker: plant, which, let's be honest, most of the major European
• 6:07
  Speaker: manufacturers have now written off to zero.
• 6:10
  Speaker: From what I can see, massive write downs.
• 6:13
  Speaker: And this is economic madness.
• 6:16
  Speaker: I mean, just just something on the as a side on on this.
• 6:21
  Speaker: I mean, obviously, you know,
• 6:22
  Speaker: Kevin Moon entered UK government
• 6:26
  Speaker: and we know obviously from
• 6:29
  Speaker: across the the automotive
• 6:30
  Speaker: sector.
• 6:31
  Speaker: And there was a sort of bit of
• 6:32
  Speaker: hope that, you know, Perrin
• 6:33
  Speaker: would enter um, as a backbencher
• 6:36
  Speaker: to give some, you know, context,
• 6:39
  Speaker: you know, around the automotive
• 6:41
  Speaker: sector.
• 6:41
  Speaker: But I mean, recently, you know,
• 6:44
  Speaker: he's been quite challenging of
• 6:45
  Speaker: some of those challenges, both
• 6:47
  Speaker: from yourself and my cause more
• 6:48
  Speaker: recently from the Smmt in terms
• 6:50
  Speaker: of, you know, trying to look at
• 6:52
  Speaker: it pragmatically and the shift
• 6:54
  Speaker: to electrification and how much
• 6:55
  Speaker: damage.
• 6:56
  Speaker: Well, I'm not even so they were pragmatic.
• 6:59
  Speaker: I mean, it's it's actually looking at it with the facts.
• 7:03
  Speaker: And I was quite vociferous with
• 7:05
  Speaker: Paramount on, on LinkedIn, as
• 7:07
  Speaker: you know.
• 7:08
  Speaker: Um, his background is electric vehicle charging.
• 7:13
  Speaker: Frankly, the only people in the country who are vociferously
• 7:18
  Speaker: against moving on the Zev mandate are people connected
• 7:22
  Speaker: with electric vehicle charging.
• 7:24
  Speaker: Now, what amazes me is if we had no manufacturers and we had no
• 7:28
  Speaker: retailers, because they'd all been put out of business because
• 7:31
  Speaker: no one could make a profit.
• 7:32
  Speaker: There is no electric vehicle charging going on, and it seems
• 7:36
  Speaker: to me insane that we're even having this debate.
• 7:39
  Speaker: The sector should work together.
• 7:41
  Speaker: But when you've got a business
• 7:42
  Speaker: model like electric vehicle
• 7:43
  Speaker: charging companies, which is
• 7:45
  Speaker: broadly what I said on LinkedIn,
• 7:46
  Speaker: which is predicated on
• 7:47
  Speaker: government mandating a
• 7:49
  Speaker: technology and let's be honest,
• 7:51
  Speaker: massively subsidising that
• 7:54
  Speaker: sector.
• 7:56
  Speaker: Um, then it creates very entrenched positions because
• 8:00
  Speaker: they have to keep that wheel of subsidy and government
• 8:06
  Speaker: intervention going or their business model and their growth
• 8:09
  Speaker: prospects and their investment plans don't come to fruition.
• 8:12
  Speaker: Now, I could say a lot about that, but that is true.
• 8:18
  Speaker: And Robert, what would you as a key industry stakeholder like
• 8:23
  Speaker: the government to change to make the Zev mandate more realistic
• 8:27
  Speaker: for new car and van EV sales?
• 8:30
  Speaker: Because I'm assuming you will be involved in the consultation
• 8:33
  Speaker: process in some shape or form.
• 8:36
  Speaker: Uh, well, I've written down on a book here.
• 8:39
  Speaker: Us to get involved in Zev mandate consultation.
• 8:42
  Speaker: Uh, clearly we will also be
• 8:44
  Speaker: working with the Smmt, working
• 8:45
  Speaker: with the Nfda, working with the
• 8:47
  Speaker: Open Road Alliance, uh, and
• 8:49
  Speaker: other interested bodies on
• 8:50
  Speaker: making sure there's one voice,
• 8:52
  Speaker: uh, what we need and what we'll
• 8:54
  Speaker: get will be two different
• 8:56
  Speaker: things.
• 8:56
  Speaker: I think there will have to be some political pragmatism.
• 8:59
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 9:00
  Speaker: And what I would like is a
• 9:01
  Speaker: complete reduction in state
• 9:03
  Speaker: intervention in the UK economy,
• 9:05
  Speaker: because we haven't got got the
• 9:07
  Speaker: balance right.
• 9:07
  Speaker: What we'll get is something very different, which is still state
• 9:10
  Speaker: intervention, but a at a less destructive level, I suspect.
• 9:15
  Speaker: So if I was being pragmatic, um,
• 9:20
  Speaker: we need targets to be
• 9:21
  Speaker: significantly moderated to more
• 9:24
  Speaker: aligned with natural market
• 9:25
  Speaker: demand to allow the automotive
• 9:27
  Speaker: sector to make profits as well
• 9:29
  Speaker: as driving on the
• 9:30
  Speaker: electrification.
• 9:31
  Speaker: Nothing wrong with electrification.
• 9:32
  Speaker: It's the pace that we've got a
• 9:34
  Speaker: problem with in order that we
• 9:36
  Speaker: can protect jobs, keep going on
• 9:38
  Speaker: investment and contribute to the
• 9:39
  Speaker: UK economy.
• 9:40
  Speaker: The opposite is we continue with these high targets and we will
• 9:44
  Speaker: not have a UK automotive sector or a very depleted one.
• 9:48
  Speaker: Uh, because what is the point of being an industry where there is
• 9:50
  Speaker: no or limited profit?
• 9:52
  Speaker: So I think we need to cut, we need to clearly work together as
• 9:55
  Speaker: an industry with an ask.
• 9:57
  Speaker: And the ask, I think should be, uh, moderate.
• 10:01
  Speaker: The targets more closely align with the European Union set
• 10:04
  Speaker: twenty thirty five of a date.
• 10:06
  Speaker: Whether it gets to twenty thirty five or it gets moved again, I
• 10:09
  Speaker: think is an interesting date.
• 10:10
  Speaker: But at the moment, let's be
• 10:12
  Speaker: pragmatic and go for twenty
• 10:13
  Speaker: thirty five.
• 10:14
  Speaker: There is talk around a fifty percent task by twenty thirty.
• 10:18
  Speaker: To be honest, we're in twenty twenty seven.
• 10:19
  Speaker: In a few months time.
• 10:20
  Speaker: It still sounds very tasty for me and broadly unachievable.
• 10:25
  Speaker: But maybe this has to be done in bite sized chunks.
• 10:27
  Speaker: Um, certainly fifty percent is better than eighty percent.
• 10:31
  Speaker: And next year's target.
• 10:32
  Speaker: So that, you know, starting with me, I don't think it starts with
• 10:36
  Speaker: a four at some point, does it?
• 10:37
  Speaker: I think so, yeah.
• 10:41
  Speaker: Um, you know, this is this is not happening.
• 10:43
  Speaker: Um, I'm as worried about vans.
• 10:46
  Speaker: I'm slightly worried that bands will get left behind.
• 10:48
  Speaker: The van market is not moving anywhere near the target, I
• 10:51
  Speaker: think nine percent or something versus twenty four percent.
• 10:54
  Speaker: So it is important that the government recognizes that.
• 10:57
  Speaker: Now, clearly they do.
• 10:58
  Speaker: That's why they've gone for consultation.
• 11:00
  Speaker: I don't think this is purely about just the business wing.
• 11:03
  Speaker: I think parties like the trade
• 11:05
  Speaker: unionists have been very helpful
• 11:08
  Speaker: in recognising with the
• 11:09
  Speaker: government that this is a
• 11:10
  Speaker: problem.
• 11:11
  Speaker: They clearly don't want to see the jobs go, which is what's
• 11:16
  Speaker: going to happen.
• 11:17
  Speaker: So they've been vociferous.
• 11:19
  Speaker: Why have we got consultation?
• 11:20
  Speaker: And I don't think necessarily
• 11:22
  Speaker: it's due to the work of um
• 11:24
  Speaker: business.
• 11:25
  Speaker: I think, you know, the fact that
• 11:26
  Speaker: Liam Byrne came out, the fact
• 11:28
  Speaker: that the unite union were very
• 11:29
  Speaker: vocal, I think has clearly been
• 11:30
  Speaker: very helpful.
• 11:32
  Speaker: And Robert, just to follow up on
• 11:35
  Speaker: that, you mentioned twenty
• 11:36
  Speaker: thirty five.
• 11:37
  Speaker: So ideally you would like to see the ice ban move from twenty
• 11:41
  Speaker: thirty to twenty thirty five.
• 11:44
  Speaker: I would use the word carefully.
• 11:45
  Speaker: Ideally, I'd like the government
• 11:47
  Speaker: to get out the way and not
• 11:48
  Speaker: interfere in key industrial
• 11:50
  Speaker: markets.
• 11:51
  Speaker: Yeah, actually, but with my more pragmatic head on.
• 11:55
  Speaker: That's a start, isn't it?
• 11:56
  Speaker: Twenty thirty five and sort of
• 11:59
  Speaker: gradually, gradually get there
• 12:01
  Speaker: as the technology gets better,
• 12:03
  Speaker: as economies of scale come
• 12:04
  Speaker: through, uh, the market will
• 12:07
  Speaker: shift.
• 12:07
  Speaker: And I've said many times in fifteen years time we'll all be
• 12:09
  Speaker: in electric vehicles.
• 12:11
  Speaker: And where do you I mean,
• 12:12
  Speaker: obviously if we the flip
• 12:15
  Speaker: flopping of twenty, thirty to
• 12:16
  Speaker: thirty five back again, twenty,
• 12:18
  Speaker: thirty back to twenty thirty
• 12:19
  Speaker: five.
• 12:19
  Speaker: But that to one side and it is a, it's a key point.
• 12:23
  Speaker: But I mean, where do you see
• 12:24
  Speaker: this in terms of the, you know,
• 12:26
  Speaker: because the reports at the
• 12:27
  Speaker: minute is saying that the the
• 12:29
  Speaker: pure petrol and diesel ban, um
• 12:32
  Speaker: is immovable.
• 12:34
  Speaker: Um that's probably questionable
• 12:36
  Speaker: in many ways, but obviously the
• 12:38
  Speaker: focus seems to be on the plug in
• 12:40
  Speaker: hybrids and the hybrid
• 12:41
  Speaker: marketplace.
• 12:42
  Speaker: Where, where do you feel the I am I my philosophical starting
• 12:47
  Speaker: point is what is the government doing even on this pitch?
• 12:50
  Speaker: Why should the government really
• 12:53
  Speaker: be setting targets on which the
• 12:55
  Speaker: taxpayer and the consumer in the
• 12:57
  Speaker: UK cannot buy a certain
• 13:00
  Speaker: powertrain?
• 13:00
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 13:01
  Speaker: I mean, that's my opening standpoint.
• 13:03
  Speaker: The British public are quite
• 13:05
  Speaker: capable of understanding about
• 13:07
  Speaker: carbon dioxide and the
• 13:08
  Speaker: environment, and quite capable
• 13:10
  Speaker: of making economic decisions
• 13:12
  Speaker: rationally.
• 13:13
  Speaker: They do not need the government to tell them what to buy.
• 13:17
  Speaker: We have we have got the cafe, the global cafe.
• 13:19
  Speaker: We got we got plenty of vets.
• 13:21
  Speaker: There's enough regulation, regulations.
• 13:24
  Speaker: Philip.
• 13:24
  Speaker: Yeah, we've got the regulations
• 13:27
  Speaker: for that emission side of things
• 13:29
  Speaker: haven't we.
• 13:30
  Speaker: To, to, to control the impact of petrol and diesel.
• 13:35
  Speaker: I mean my overriding worry in
• 13:36
  Speaker: the past ten years has been that
• 13:38
  Speaker: this whole debate is
• 13:43
  Speaker: aggressively taken to by the
• 13:46
  Speaker: civil service and the government
• 13:47
  Speaker: and government.
• 13:48
  Speaker: And I'm talking both parties
• 13:50
  Speaker: because the Tories were well on
• 13:52
  Speaker: this pitch, uh, because actually
• 13:54
  Speaker: they don't like the private
• 13:55
  Speaker: vote.
• 13:57
  Speaker: And I think the industry has been woeful in explaining both
• 14:00
  Speaker: the economic and the personal individual freedom benefits of
• 14:03
  Speaker: private motor cars.
• 14:05
  Speaker: Increasingly, we're seeing some
• 14:07
  Speaker: nonsensical things going on,
• 14:09
  Speaker: like in Oxford, which is well
• 14:10
  Speaker: worthy of debate, where the
• 14:12
  Speaker: private motor car is basically
• 14:13
  Speaker: under attack.
• 14:15
  Speaker: And we'll see a number of cities going down that route.
• 14:17
  Speaker: So I think it's part of a wider debate.
• 14:19
  Speaker: But coming back to the Zev
• 14:20
  Speaker: mandate, we need less government
• 14:22
  Speaker: intervention.
• 14:23
  Speaker: We need the industry to be given a breathing space.
• 14:26
  Speaker: Every company has invested in electric vehicles.
• 14:28
  Speaker: The question is, can they make money selling them?
• 14:30
  Speaker: And why shouldn't they make money?
• 14:32
  Speaker: Haven't they invested capital?
• 14:35
  Speaker: I mean, not connected with this.
• 14:39
  Speaker: There's a lot of discussion at the minute around the EV, the
• 14:43
  Speaker: pence per mile, pure EVs and plug in hybrids.
• 14:48
  Speaker: And you know, that's currently
• 14:50
  Speaker: coming into effect April twenty
• 14:52
  Speaker: eight.
• 14:53
  Speaker: Now there's a lot of obviously,
• 14:55
  Speaker: we've had the latest from the
• 14:56
  Speaker: consultation, which is
• 14:57
  Speaker: obviously, you know, um, that
• 14:59
  Speaker: the vehicle doesn't need to be
• 15:02
  Speaker: monitored until it's three years
• 15:03
  Speaker: old, but it's left to the driver
• 15:06
  Speaker: or the asset holder to input the
• 15:08
  Speaker: mileage.
• 15:09
  Speaker: I mean, this again, alongside the Zev mandate is where there's
• 15:14
  Speaker: a policy being introduced without actually thinking
• 15:18
  Speaker: through the impact.
• 15:21
  Speaker: Oh, it's impact of comedy.
• 15:24
  Speaker: Honestly, this is comedy.
• 15:25
  Speaker: It's like watching reruns of yes, Prime Minister.
• 15:28
  Speaker: Uh, I mean, what let's get back to fundamentals.
• 15:31
  Speaker: Is there a problem?
• 15:32
  Speaker: Yes.
• 15:33
  Speaker: What is the problem?
• 15:34
  Speaker: Fuel duty isn't going to keep
• 15:35
  Speaker: going at the same rate due to
• 15:37
  Speaker: electrification.
• 15:37
  Speaker: Does everybody agree on that point?
• 15:39
  Speaker: Yes.
• 15:39
  Speaker: Does the government need to raise money?
• 15:41
  Speaker: Of course.
• 15:42
  Speaker: Why come up with a complete nonsensical self-declaration?
• 15:46
  Speaker: Well, that's going to work.
• 15:47
  Speaker: Well, then you put in, you know, more onerous on m o t stations,
• 15:52
  Speaker: including franchise m o t stations to do something else
• 15:56
  Speaker: when, let's be honest, there's a cap on what we can charge.
• 15:59
  Speaker: And I think if we're going to do something else, we should be
• 16:01
  Speaker: paid for it.
• 16:02
  Speaker: But why bother?
• 16:04
  Speaker: Why not just put an annual levy on electric vehicles?
• 16:08
  Speaker: Flat fee may be based on size of car or something that's simple
• 16:14
  Speaker: payable once can't be avoided to to plug the duty gap.
• 16:19
  Speaker: I mean, I don't know why this
• 16:20
  Speaker: wasn't done, but they've come up
• 16:22
  Speaker: with is an absolute nonsensical
• 16:25
  Speaker: mess.
• 16:28
  Speaker: And I think part of it stems from the people in power.
• 16:30
  Speaker: Most of them don't have cars and don't drive.
• 16:32
  Speaker: Actually, when I meet civil
• 16:34
  Speaker: servants, they all live in
• 16:34
  Speaker: London.
• 16:35
  Speaker: They all jump on the tube.
• 16:35
  Speaker: They have no clue what cars for.
• 16:38
  Speaker: And as you say, in terms of the reliance on and without going
• 16:44
  Speaker: down this rabbit Warren.
• 16:45
  Speaker: But the DVLA, through their
• 16:49
  Speaker: Processes and capabilities to
• 16:52
  Speaker: manage this.
• 16:54
  Speaker: Again, you know, it's not feasible.
• 16:57
  Speaker: I mean, it needs to in my
• 16:58
  Speaker: opinion, it needs to be go back
• 17:00
  Speaker: to simplicity.
• 17:01
  Speaker: And I did study taxation once and my, my exams.
• 17:05
  Speaker: Uh, it needs to be simple and a tax on a car based on size, like
• 17:10
  Speaker: road tax every year.
• 17:12
  Speaker: Just add on to it and add by way of it wouldn't even be it
• 17:15
  Speaker: wouldn't be a debate.
• 17:19
  Speaker: And Robert Mike Hawes, the CEO
• 17:22
  Speaker: of the Society of Motor
• 17:23
  Speaker: Manufacturers and Traders,
• 17:25
  Speaker: naturally welcomed the
• 17:27
  Speaker: consultation and it being
• 17:29
  Speaker: brought forward.
• 17:31
  Speaker: Um, because he's been campaigning against it, he has
• 17:34
  Speaker: done a phenomenal job.
• 17:36
  Speaker: That man, I have to say, uh, he has he deserves a knighthood and
• 17:40
  Speaker: he'll probably get it.
• 17:41
  Speaker: He has done an excellent job.
• 17:44
  Speaker: Totally.
• 17:45
  Speaker: And he's spot on with his utterances for sure.
• 17:48
  Speaker: I totally agree with you.
• 17:49
  Speaker: He's really raised the issue, raised the profile, and raised
• 17:53
  Speaker: the industry's voice.
• 17:55
  Speaker: Uh. On Friday, he called for
• 17:57
  Speaker: what he described as meaningful
• 17:59
  Speaker: change, not marginal
• 18:01
  Speaker: adjustments.
• 18:02
  Speaker: So how hopeful, um, are you
• 18:06
  Speaker: because you've had dealings over
• 18:08
  Speaker: the years with successive
• 18:09
  Speaker: governments?
• 18:10
  Speaker: How hopeful are you that, um,
• 18:13
  Speaker: you know, meaningful change can
• 18:15
  Speaker: actually.
• 18:15
  Speaker: I am very, very hopeful.
• 18:17
  Speaker: I am exceedingly optimistic.
• 18:20
  Speaker: And it's because there are people within the Parliamentary
• 18:25
  Speaker: Labour Party and the wider Labour movement who fully
• 18:29
  Speaker: understand the problem.
• 18:30
  Speaker: Now we might get to a position
• 18:32
  Speaker: whereby we have short term
• 18:33
  Speaker: relief, but long term objectives
• 18:35
  Speaker: are still in place, in which
• 18:36
  Speaker: case this will be an ongoing
• 18:38
  Speaker: effect every couple of years
• 18:39
  Speaker: where we have to get the things
• 18:40
  Speaker: changed.
• 18:41
  Speaker: But the unite union, uh, and people like Liam Byrne, who are
• 18:45
  Speaker: very, very good.
• 18:47
  Speaker: And there are people in government who fully understand
• 18:50
  Speaker: the need for change.
• 18:51
  Speaker: So this will happen.
• 18:56
  Speaker: I mean, yeah, I couldn't agree more.
• 18:57
  Speaker: I think like you said, I think nobody disagrees with the long
• 19:00
  Speaker: term aim and the result.
• 19:03
  Speaker: But actually it's how we are.
• 19:05
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 19:05
  Speaker: It's just ironic that why the
• 19:06
  Speaker: government think they need to do
• 19:07
  Speaker: it.
• 19:08
  Speaker: The long term result is we'll have electrified cars.
• 19:11
  Speaker: The market will deliver that.
• 19:12
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 19:13
  Speaker: And to be brutally honest, whether we go now, twenty thirty
• 19:16
  Speaker: or twenty thirty five or twenty forty will not make the blindest
• 19:20
  Speaker: bit of difference to global CO2.
• 19:22
  Speaker: No, I mean, that's the disconnect, isn't it?
• 19:25
  Speaker: The alongside all this is the
• 19:27
  Speaker: net zero and the global CO2
• 19:30
  Speaker: where, you know, the impact of
• 19:32
  Speaker: that.
• 19:32
  Speaker: But actually this this isn't moving in that same direction of
• 19:36
  Speaker: conversation, is it?
• 19:38
  Speaker: No. So I'm quite optimistic.
• 19:40
  Speaker: I think the industry has
• 19:41
  Speaker: actually done a pretty good job
• 19:43
  Speaker: at lobbying.
• 19:45
  Speaker: I think the government, in fairness to them, have listened.
• 19:47
  Speaker: It's early days for the Burnham government, but good sign.
• 19:50
  Speaker: Um, and let's just get the concept out of the way.
• 19:53
  Speaker: It's good news because it'll be done before the manufacturers
• 19:56
  Speaker: finalize their plans for twenty twenty seven, which was, I
• 19:59
  Speaker: think, critical, to be honest.
• 20:01
  Speaker: So, um, let's crack on with the consultation.
• 20:03
  Speaker: Let's, uh, let's assume that the government have right
• 20:07
  Speaker: intentions, which I actually think they do.
• 20:09
  Speaker: And let's get this industry back
• 20:11
  Speaker: to creating jobs, employing
• 20:14
  Speaker: young people, paying tax
• 20:15
  Speaker: growing.
• 20:16
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 20:17
  Speaker: No, I couldn't agree more.
• 20:18
  Speaker: Well, coming a little bit more to today.
• 20:21
  Speaker: And you know, I think we were chatting briefly before we we
• 20:25
  Speaker: started to record.
• 20:26
  Speaker: But you know, it's five years since you were the undercover
• 20:29
  Speaker: boss, which I caught a glimpse of the other day, isn't it.
• 20:33
  Speaker: I think that was yeah.
• 20:34
  Speaker: Fantastic.
• 20:34
  Speaker: Five years last week, five years.
• 20:36
  Speaker: Can't believe five years.
• 20:38
  Speaker: But, uh, yeah, congratulations with that one.
• 20:41
  Speaker: I think you've probably got
• 20:42
  Speaker: everybody on their toes for it
• 20:43
  Speaker: happening again.
• 20:44
  Speaker: He's probably the one Anyway,
• 20:47
  Speaker: anybody that wasn't within your
• 20:48
  Speaker: organization.
• 20:50
  Speaker: I have visited, I have visited twenty percent of the group in
• 20:53
  Speaker: the last two and a half weeks.
• 20:57
  Speaker: All right.
• 20:57
  Speaker: Okay.
• 20:58
  Speaker: So you get.
• 20:58
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 20:59
  Speaker: Right.
• 20:59
  Speaker: That's, uh, that'll be keep an eye on the times we'll be
• 21:01
  Speaker: watching out with, uh, does that look like a wig or not?
• 21:04
  Speaker: Is that.
• 21:05
  Speaker: Who's that?
• 21:05
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 21:06
  Speaker: Well, yeah.
• 21:08
  Speaker: So I've still got the wig in my office.
• 21:11
  Speaker: I can imagine you have.
• 21:12
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 21:12
  Speaker: It goes on for when you want it to be the um if, when you pop to
• 21:17
  Speaker: Burnley for your new sponsorship, that would be when
• 21:19
  Speaker: I was there.
• 21:19
  Speaker: I was there yesterday.
• 21:20
  Speaker: Yes.
• 21:21
  Speaker: Fantastic.
• 21:22
  Speaker: I mean, you know, we're mid-August now.
• 21:25
  Speaker: Um, you know, the year twenty twenty six is, is obviously past
• 21:30
  Speaker: that half year point.
• 21:31
  Speaker: Now we're heading towards September, you know, crucial
• 21:34
  Speaker: time of the year for, for everybody within the, uh, the
• 21:37
  Speaker: sector, you know, the second plate, positive indications from
• 21:41
  Speaker: the market in terms of order, bank for that plate change.
• 21:44
  Speaker: What's it looking?
• 21:45
  Speaker: I think I think it's difficult to say that it's too early.
• 21:48
  Speaker: Actually, the order bank builds from this point on.
• 21:53
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 21:53
  Speaker: Um, from mid-August onwards, I'm not convinced that it's from now
• 21:58
  Speaker: on that the actions we started our new car event.
• 22:01
  Speaker: You might have seen the TV ads last Thursday.
• 22:04
  Speaker: Big event this weekend.
• 22:05
  Speaker: Another big event next weekend.
• 22:07
  Speaker: Um, but you know what?
• 22:08
  Speaker: It's like the days of massive order banks going into a plate
• 22:12
  Speaker: change month early August.
• 22:14
  Speaker: You know, we're very much more transactional than that.
• 22:17
  Speaker: So, you know, you can't comment on September at this point.
• 22:20
  Speaker: Having said that, the market's been up which is good.
• 22:24
  Speaker: New car markets growing.
• 22:25
  Speaker: I think the manufacturers have
• 22:26
  Speaker: got more focus on retail than
• 22:29
  Speaker: fleet, which is good news for
• 22:31
  Speaker: retailers.
• 22:32
  Speaker: So I think there's a lot to play for.
• 22:34
  Speaker: Uh, we're certainly putting our
• 22:35
  Speaker: best foot forward in terms of
• 22:36
  Speaker: marketing.
• 22:38
  Speaker: Um, you know, we're at it.
• 22:40
  Speaker: Um, and I think we've got a lot to be hopeful for, but you can't
• 22:43
  Speaker: declare victory mid-August.
• 22:44
  Speaker: You've had some events as well, haven't you?
• 22:46
  Speaker: Have you had a new car?
• 22:47
  Speaker: Oh yeah.
• 22:47
  Speaker: No, we've got a bit.
• 22:48
  Speaker: We've got a full TV schedule at the moment with new cars.
• 22:52
  Speaker: Um, we started last Thursday.
• 22:54
  Speaker: We had a good weekend.
• 22:55
  Speaker: So you know, we've just got to, to deliver it really.
• 22:59
  Speaker: And I'm pleased this year with
• 23:00
  Speaker: how the dealerships have
• 23:01
  Speaker: performed.
• 23:02
  Speaker: We actually had a profit upgrade last month or June actually,
• 23:07
  Speaker: which is, you know, fairly unheard of in the experience of
• 23:11
  Speaker: the last couple of years.
• 23:12
  Speaker: So I think, you know, we can be optimistic.
• 23:15
  Speaker: The fact that we did the came to the rescue of Burnley and are
• 23:18
  Speaker: now front sponsor front shirt sponsor for them.
• 23:21
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 23:22
  Speaker: Um yeah.
• 23:23
  Speaker: Uh you know, was a quite an
• 23:25
  Speaker: aggressive move from us, if I'm
• 23:26
  Speaker: honest.
• 23:27
  Speaker: Um, clearly it was a distressed situation with regards to the
• 23:30
  Speaker: club because we had a week to go and no sponsor.
• 23:33
  Speaker: Um, but you know, it's those
• 23:35
  Speaker: sort of things that go down very
• 23:36
  Speaker: well within the colleague base,
• 23:38
  Speaker: you know, seeing the company on
• 23:39
  Speaker: the front foot, seeing them on
• 23:40
  Speaker: the television, it creates
• 23:42
  Speaker: confidence, which I think is
• 23:43
  Speaker: important.
• 23:43
  Speaker: And it creates confidence for
• 23:45
  Speaker: customers when they see, you
• 23:46
  Speaker: know, you turn on the
• 23:48
  Speaker: television, you know, yesterday
• 23:49
  Speaker: fully televised match, eighteen
• 23:51
  Speaker: minutes of LED advertising the
• 23:53
  Speaker: new car event next weekend at
• 23:55
  Speaker: Donington Park with the British
• 23:56
  Speaker: Touring Car, thirty five zero
• 23:57
  Speaker: zero zero people there dominated
• 23:59
  Speaker: by virtue.
• 24:00
  Speaker: So we are attacking and putting
• 24:03
  Speaker: our best foot forward, that's
• 24:04
  Speaker: for sure.
• 24:05
  Speaker: Yeah, and definitely in your local market, your customer base
• 24:08
  Speaker: and everything else.
• 24:10
  Speaker: So are you.
• 24:10
  Speaker: I mean, obviously, you know, at
• 24:12
  Speaker: this point now you're pretty
• 24:14
  Speaker: you're not going to say
• 24:15
  Speaker: otherwise knowing you so well
• 24:17
  Speaker: for so many years, but twenty
• 24:19
  Speaker: twenty six, you've upgraded your
• 24:21
  Speaker: profit outlook.
• 24:22
  Speaker: Yeah, I'm optimistic actually.
• 24:24
  Speaker: I'm optimistic for the rest of this year.
• 24:27
  Speaker: I think the business having two managing directors has been a
• 24:29
  Speaker: benefit to the business.
• 24:31
  Speaker: We are operationally quite tight.
• 24:33
  Speaker: I mean, you know, twenty percent of the dealerships in the last
• 24:35
  Speaker: two and a half, three weeks, it means I've got around.
• 24:38
  Speaker: I've got a good feel for what's going on.
• 24:40
  Speaker: Um, I think we're in good form and I think we're enjoying it,
• 24:44
  Speaker: which is good.
• 24:46
  Speaker: The fact that Zev mandate looks like it's being consulted on
• 24:49
  Speaker: also gives everybody a boost.
• 24:51
  Speaker: Um, we're very stable.
• 24:53
  Speaker: We've had the three same
• 24:54
  Speaker: executive directors for two
• 24:56
  Speaker: decades.
• 24:57
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 24:57
  Speaker: And in November, we look forward
• 24:59
  Speaker: to our twentieth birthday as a
• 25:00
  Speaker: business.
• 25:01
  Speaker: When we founded the group in November two thousand and six.
• 25:04
  Speaker: So plenty to look forward to.
• 25:05
  Speaker: We are, you know, we are very much at it in terms of selling.
• 25:10
  Speaker: And we are a selling business at the end of the day.
• 25:13
  Speaker: Um, and lots of long term things
• 25:15
  Speaker: going on, you know, lots of
• 25:16
  Speaker: investment in degree
• 25:17
  Speaker: apprentices.
• 25:19
  Speaker: Uh, we're developing a new, uh, graduate program for intake into
• 25:23
  Speaker: our large fleet businesses.
• 25:25
  Speaker: Lots of things to get excited about.
• 25:30
  Speaker: Well, twenty years, Robert.
• 25:32
  Speaker: I mean, I remember writing about
• 25:34
  Speaker: this fledgling new group that
• 25:36
  Speaker: was launching and, uh, I can't
• 25:38
  Speaker: believe that's two decades ago
• 25:39
  Speaker: now.
• 25:40
  Speaker: No, I don't think my wife believes it either.
• 25:46
  Speaker: Did you give her an indication
• 25:47
  Speaker: that you were going to be twenty
• 25:48
  Speaker: years and you'll still be hard
• 25:50
  Speaker: at it?
• 25:50
  Speaker: I'm not sure, I told her.
• 25:53
  Speaker: Uh, but, uh, yeah, no, it's been, uh, let's be honest.
• 25:57
  Speaker: We've enjoyed it, haven't we?
• 25:58
  Speaker: It's had its ups and downs.
• 25:59
  Speaker: We've had global financial
• 26:00
  Speaker: crises, we've had Covid, we've
• 26:02
  Speaker: had Dieselgate, we've had Zev
• 26:04
  Speaker: mandate.
• 26:06
  Speaker: But that adds to the fun of the job, doesn't it?
• 26:08
  Speaker: And, you know, we built a nice business.
• 26:10
  Speaker: It's not completely where it
• 26:11
  Speaker: needs to be, but it's in good
• 26:13
  Speaker: form.
• 26:13
  Speaker: We can, you know, really work hard over the next few months to
• 26:16
  Speaker: make it even better and deliver a good result this year.
• 26:19
  Speaker: So to a degree, when you put everything, what you've done,
• 26:24
  Speaker: where you are size of the business, it you sort of say
• 26:27
  Speaker: it's only twenty years.
• 26:29
  Speaker: Twenty years seems a long time, but it's not.
• 26:31
  Speaker: There's dealerships and groups
• 26:32
  Speaker: that have been going a lot
• 26:34
  Speaker: longer.
• 26:35
  Speaker: So twenty years to, to get to
• 26:37
  Speaker: the scale and what you've got
• 26:39
  Speaker: now seven and a half thousand
• 26:40
  Speaker: employees.
• 26:41
  Speaker: Yeah, yeah, I've got, you know, two hundred outlets.
• 26:44
  Speaker: Really.
• 26:45
  Speaker: Um, but I don't really look at it like that.
• 26:48
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 26:49
  Speaker: Um, I think, you know, there's a
• 26:50
  Speaker: lot to, to do the Chinese
• 26:52
  Speaker: changes, you know, watch Chinese
• 26:55
  Speaker: brands.
• 26:55
  Speaker: How many outlets do we have for each?
• 26:57
  Speaker: That is a massive transformation.
• 26:59
  Speaker: That is a really soaking up a lot of time.
• 27:02
  Speaker: Um, and it needs, needs to be done clearly so that, you know,
• 27:06
  Speaker: that's a big task, the AI revolution, and I use that word
• 27:10
  Speaker: advisedly, but I honestly believe it's a revolution.
• 27:15
  Speaker: I am going at three o'clock to a
• 27:16
  Speaker: business in Newcastle, actually
• 27:18
  Speaker: a marketing agency who've done a
• 27:21
  Speaker: lot of work in AI, and I want to
• 27:23
  Speaker: see it.
• 27:23
  Speaker: I'm spending a lot of time going
• 27:25
  Speaker: to businesses that have got good
• 27:27
  Speaker: AI.
• 27:27
  Speaker: Now we think we've got good AI and we have.
• 27:30
  Speaker: But you've got to learn from other businesses, and it's not
• 27:32
  Speaker: an area I was ever trained in.
• 27:33
  Speaker: So, you know, we've got to learn about AI.
• 27:36
  Speaker: I think AI is absolutely transformational.
• 27:39
  Speaker: Everything I see tells me this
• 27:41
  Speaker: is not business as usual in
• 27:43
  Speaker: terms of AI, and I know it
• 27:45
  Speaker: sounds like a buzzword, and I
• 27:46
  Speaker: hope people don't think I'm
• 27:48
  Speaker: using a buzzword, but honestly
• 27:49
  Speaker: believe this is going to be
• 27:51
  Speaker: quite important.
• 27:52
  Speaker: But I did a talk this morning for three hours to forty new
• 27:55
  Speaker: managers, and I said, the good news is actually, if you were
• 28:00
  Speaker: leaving school today, dealership general management, sales
• 28:05
  Speaker: executives, service advisors, technicians, very hard to see
• 28:10
  Speaker: how you AI those jobs out.
• 28:12
  Speaker: Yes, actually, it's quite a good bet.
• 28:15
  Speaker: Whereas I could name umpteen job
• 28:18
  Speaker: roles, which would be under
• 28:20
  Speaker: massive pressure from AI going
• 28:22
  Speaker: forward, not least, you know,
• 28:23
  Speaker: massive pressure.
• 28:24
  Speaker: I won't name them because it'd be unfair.
• 28:26
  Speaker: But, um, I think dealerships are
• 28:30
  Speaker: phenomenal businesses, difficult
• 28:32
  Speaker: markets, always not high margin,
• 28:35
  Speaker: clearly.
• 28:35
  Speaker: But if you were a youngster
• 28:38
  Speaker: today and you were offered a
• 28:39
  Speaker: degree apprentice with Virtue
• 28:41
  Speaker: motives.
• 28:41
  Speaker: So you could be a manager in four or five four years time at
• 28:44
  Speaker: the age of twenty four, twenty five, or even less.
• 28:48
  Speaker: Twenty two.
• 28:49
  Speaker: That would be a good shout.
• 28:51
  Speaker: Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.
• 28:52
  Speaker: I think that's what we've got to
• 28:54
  Speaker: look at is the world is
• 28:55
  Speaker: changing.
• 28:56
  Speaker: Seventy percent of people go to university, which I completely
• 28:59
  Speaker: disagree with as it happens.
• 29:01
  Speaker: But we've got to therefore look at what's our intake and how do
• 29:05
  Speaker: we get graduates to come on.
• 29:06
  Speaker: And, you know, graduates want
• 29:08
  Speaker: graduate programs, but they
• 29:09
  Speaker: don't exist.
• 29:10
  Speaker: People can't find jobs.
• 29:13
  Speaker: No, I mean, on the AI, Curtis
• 29:15
  Speaker: never knows whether he's talking
• 29:16
  Speaker: to me or my AI clone half the
• 29:19
  Speaker: time.
• 29:20
  Speaker: Um, as you as you were saying that, Robert, I was thinking,
• 29:24
  Speaker: well, actually, um, podcast hosts, they're probably.
• 29:27
  Speaker: Oh no, I think, I think you're, I think you're, you're majorly
• 29:30
  Speaker: at risk, Curtis because yes, I know well see me being
• 29:34
  Speaker: interviewed by Curtis the robot.
• 29:37
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 29:37
  Speaker: And you know, it, it looks at the analysis of the industry,
• 29:41
  Speaker: ask me questions and we wouldn't know the difference.
• 29:44
  Speaker: Yeah, but we won't be as fun though, wouldn't it?
• 29:46
  Speaker: Well, it depends how well you.
• 29:50
  Speaker: Know I think.
• 29:51
  Speaker: I think, you know you're right.
• 29:52
  Speaker: I think I mean obviously I've
• 29:53
  Speaker: been in the industry thirty
• 29:54
  Speaker: seven plus years now or whatever
• 29:56
  Speaker: it is.
• 29:57
  Speaker: And, you know, you just
• 29:58
  Speaker: mentioned some of those
• 29:59
  Speaker: challenges around AI and Covid
• 30:01
  Speaker: and everything else that we've
• 30:02
  Speaker: been through.
• 30:04
  Speaker: And there's still more.
• 30:05
  Speaker: There's still exciting business
• 30:07
  Speaker: to be in in terms of automotive
• 30:08
  Speaker: in general.
• 30:09
  Speaker: So I think anybody coming into this sector, there is a lot for
• 30:13
  Speaker: them to get involved with.
• 30:14
  Speaker: And, you know, it's a phenomenal industry.
• 30:16
  Speaker: I mean, I never wanted to go into automotive sector.
• 30:19
  Speaker: I never thought I'd be in it, but I wouldn't go anywhere else,
• 30:22
  Speaker: I don't think.
• 30:23
  Speaker: And it is a wonderfully eclectic, exciting industry.
• 30:30
  Speaker: And I think we should look at the positives because everyone
• 30:32
  Speaker: knows about them.
• 30:32
  Speaker: But actually it's given a lot of people a very good living,
• 30:35
  Speaker: actually for many years, and I think we'll continue to do so.
• 30:39
  Speaker: And coming back to the this Monday.
• 30:41
  Speaker: That's the problem with the Zev mandate.
• 30:43
  Speaker: It has appended a very successful sector.
• 30:48
  Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
• 30:49
  Speaker: And I rather suspect Robert, that's not the last word on the
• 30:55
  Speaker: Zev mandate from you.
• 30:56
  Speaker: We will have you back on at some stage for another update.
• 30:59
  Speaker: But, uh, you know, from Philip and I, many thanks for coming on
• 31:03
  Speaker: to the podcast today.
• 31:05
  Speaker: Um, you know, at short notice.
• 31:06
  Speaker: Really appreciate that.
• 31:08
  Speaker: And thanks for spending time with us.
• 31:11
  Speaker: Absolute pleasure.
• 31:12
  Speaker: Anytime.
• 31:13
  Speaker: So many thanks, Robert.
• 31:15
  Speaker: We're back with the headlines on Saturday morning.
• 31:18
  Speaker: Until then, it's goodbye from me and it's goodbye from him.
• 31:24
  Speaker: Thank you for listening to the Motor Trade Radio podcast
• 31:28
  Speaker: powered by Cazoo.