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Cultivate | The Minor Prophets | Week 2 · The Grove Church

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Everyone, welcome to the Cultivate podcast with the Grove church. Thank
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you so much for joining us. I'm Charlie Lofton, the lead pastor
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there, and we have Mark Freeman here with us. What's up, dude? It's
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good. You prepared to continue to be our Old Testament minor
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prophet expert? I have grown in knowledge since our last
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podcast. Really? Oh, yes. That's impressive.
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Your head seems marginally larger. It's like, it's just your brain is
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getting bigger. Hey. Yeah, so Mark and I
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are on staff together at the Grove church. And again, thank you so much for
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joining us, especially if you are new. Really glad that you have found
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us. And we are starting today a series
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where we're just kind of working our way through the minor profits.
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And last week we kind of intro the idea just to kind of make sure
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we all understood what we meant when we said that we were going through the
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minor profits. We talked about what makes a prophet, a minor prophet versus
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a major one, which is at its core length of the book,
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not quality of prophet, and that a prophet is someone who God gives
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a message to, to deliver to a certain group of people. And then
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we also talked a little bit about the history of Israel and the splitting of
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the kingdoms and those sorts of things to kind of help us put each one
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of these in a historical context.
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And so we're just going to take these in order.
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And so today we are starting with the prophet Hosea.
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Hosea. And this is actually, to me, here's the thing. It was
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like 14 chapters.
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Yeah. I feel like Hosea, man, he's on the
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fence. That seems long enough
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to be a major prophet. Oh, yeah. Book of Daniel is not much longer
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than that. Right. It's kind of a decent book, even like some of these other
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ones. You can tell definitely. That's why he splits the difference. He's right there in
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the middle. It's a little bit like maybe you get to decide for
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yourself. Yeah, it surprised me going back to it,
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because there's this big picture thing that he's saying
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and illustration that he's giving us. And
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you don't think about it being 14 chapters? No, it is. Yeah, it
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is. All right, so historically, we got this
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prophet, Hosea, and he's, again, like you said, he's got a pretty
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significant message and a wild way that
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God is having him illustrate this deal. But let's
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set it in its historical context. Where are we in the history
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of the jewish people at the time that Hosea is making these
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prophecies? Okay, so if I'm right. It's
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during one of the reign, the reign of one of the worst kings that they
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had. Jeroboam II. Yes. Kind of
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focused on the northern kingdom. Right.
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200 years after this is after the split. Right. So we had three
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kings that were under a united monarchy, and then they split into two.
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The northern kingdom being Israel, the southern kingdom being Judah.
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Okay, so side question. Side question. So you got these
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two kingdoms, and normally when we talk, we just
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know we're talking about Israel and we know Judah's
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in there somewhere. How does that work into these?
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Are most of the prophets talking to one or the other,
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or is it to both? How should we
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view that? Well, I mean, there's a sense in
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mean, the fact that they're recorded in the Bible means that big picture that God
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wanted to have, wanted to have the broadest of audiences. He wants
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us to still be reading it and learning something from it. And so in the
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broadest sense, the answer is it's for everybody.
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And I think there are some that I think that we're going to see that
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are very, very targeted. The story of Jonah, for
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instance, is about a very specific message through a
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group of people that aren't even Israelites. This was something that, a message
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that God had given to Jonah, to the Ninevites, which is this gentile
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group of people. And I think that we'll see some things like that where
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this is a very targeted message to a very
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specific group of people. And I think there are going to be some that
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are kind of addressing everybody all at once,
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but from time to time, he'll call one particular
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group out. That's the thing I feel like I noticed in Hosea, there's
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like, he seems to be, I was going to say a lot of
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bullets in his gun, but this is way older than that. He's got a lot
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of arrows in his quiver, and he seems to be shooting
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most of those arrows at the northern kingdom.
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But he does mention Judah from time to time as
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well. Is that your impression? And I think there's also this
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sense, too. So it's a little bit like, if you say, hey,
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guys, what you mean by that is kind of different on the context.
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If it's a mixed group, you may be talking to everybody,
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or if it's a group of guys over here and a group of women
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over here, and you say guys, and context
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kind of tells you whether or not you're talking to just the guys or you're
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using it as an overarching term. I know not all women love the
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fact that you may say guys and refer to everybody, I'm just using that as
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an example, but it's the same kind of deal with Israel. There's some instances in
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which Israel may mean everybody who is
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of jewish descent, or he may be
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specifically referring to the northern kingdom of
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Israel. And I found in Hosea he also used
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the word ephraim. Did you notice that? Right.
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So Ephraim is just one of the tribes,
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and it's an unusual thing. And so did
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you look it up? Because I looked it up. I didn't. I looked it up
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because I was like, why Israel and Judah? I understand that.
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Then who's Ephraim? Right. I knew that
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that particular tribe was one of the eleven tribes
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that was in the northern kingdom. And I think
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the impression that I got, if we're going to keep using my guys,
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if guys is everybody and women is women, and
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so then guys is Israel and Judah and women is Judah. That
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Ephraim is kind of shorthand for very specifically
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making sure he is talking about the northern kingdom, that
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since Israel can have a broader
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context, he is making it very clear when he says Ephraim
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that he's referring very specifically to the northern
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kingdom of Israel. Was there anything specific about them in
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their level of disobedience?
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Is there anything that would make him call them out in particular? I'm not aware
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of such a thing.
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Interesting. All right, so we're
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in the late, I
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guess early eigth century BC,
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targeting primarily the northern kingdom, but a little bit. Enough
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arrows for everybody. Primarily during the reign
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of Jeroboam II. And also
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at the same time, seemed like there were a lot of different. Like
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Judah was experiencing a lot more turnover in kings, some
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good, some bad. But Jeroboam II
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was considered. He was one of the worst.
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So Hosea's got a whole lot of things to say.
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And so I guess before we get to the content of what he said,
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we have to start with. Before we get to the content of what he say.
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The book starts with an interaction
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between God and Hosea, where God asks Hosea to do something
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and then it plays out. You want to give us kind of
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the highlights of that. What was going on in those first couple
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chapters? Yeah, I mean, asking him to marry a
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prostitute and to have children with her
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and then specifically names the children
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some really difficult names that you
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wouldn't. Right. I don't think we would choose to name our
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kids. It just calls Hosea to do a
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really difficult thing, to make an illustration
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that's man it's really powerful and
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it. Seems like they're married
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and that some bad things happen and she leaves
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him and he has to go and get her back.
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So he marries someone that at a
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minimum, there is some debate about whether or not she was
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most definitely a prostitute. If it
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was God predicting that she was going to be an
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unfaithful wife, if she was just someone
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who
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know, already known to be someone who was
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having sex outside of marriage. But
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regardless, God was putting Hosea into a
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situation to marry someone
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that God knew was not going to be faithful to Hosea and probably
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already had some sort of inclination that she
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was already currently not being faithful. And
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then they get married and
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she is unfaithful and now she's living with some other dude, it looks
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like, and God says, and go and bring her back.
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So I don't know if you've got a great answer to this question. I don't
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think I've got a great answer to this question. So maybe we can just banter
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about either, both of our insufficient answers to this
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question. Why would God do
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this?
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Yeah, I mean, putting myself in Hosea's shoes, I've always felt
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like, my goodness, man, and a lot of these prophets, I mean, the things that
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they were called to do were
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just hard, difficult things for God
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to get his message across to Israel. Right. But I don't
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know that there's one that to me is more difficult than
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this man
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to love, to trust, and to
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have trust broken and then to forgive
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and he even has to pay
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to get her back. Right. And the
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forgiveness, all of the commitment, it's
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just. Yeah. Why would God do.
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He wants to make his point. His point is very important. He's definitely making
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a point, is a point that I feel like that could be told as well
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with a parable. You know what I mean? Let
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me tell you a story about a guy who took on a wife
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knowing that she was going to be unfaithful to
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him and he loved her and then she was
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unfaithful to him and then he went because he
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loved her so much and paid a price to get her
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back even though she was unfaithful to him. And then he were
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to say, and that is how God is with you. He has taken on
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you and he loves you, knowing that you're going to be unfaithful.
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And when you are unfaithful, he will go to where you
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are and pay a price for you to bring you
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back. The very powerful statement. Very
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powerful statement for them in that time
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has an overwhelming amount of foreshadowing
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or dare I say
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prophecy about the coming of Jesus.
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Right. So the message is very clear. It's powerful.
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I think most of us without a whole lot of Bible study
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help can get that
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big picture message. There's something about it, man,
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that he asked Hosea to do it, to live
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it mean
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that is driving the point home. Well, in
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Hosea's personal, the depths
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of understanding that he would have
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on the other side of,
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I think there is something about the messenger
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understanding it at those depths. It's not just a story. I
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experienced this, but in order for. It to be, and this is kind
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of where I don't know if I'm letting God off the hook or I'm just
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trying to make the story more palatable to me. But
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in order for Hosea to
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really understand the message he would have needed
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to have loved her, it
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wouldn't be like, hey, go take this woman you don't even know, don't even care
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about, don't even worry and bring into your house, make
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her a wife or one of your wives or whatever because
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I'm going to play this out so people can see it and be
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like, whatever, I guess. But
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again, what you're saying for this to really have driven
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home in the heart of Hosea, I think this
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is something that was lived out and almost
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for me. And again, I am
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clearly putting an asterisk next to this.
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To me, when the story is written
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is probably after it has already happened. And
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part of me, the way that it feels like it reads is
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mean. This is who's Hosea married?
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And I think God knew she was going to be unfaithful.
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And maybe at that moment, Jose maybe didn't,
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then she was unfaithful. And then the big
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thing that God called him to do was
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to go and get her back. But upon
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reflection, Hosea realizes, hey, God
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wanted me to marry her. I loved her and he called me to
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marry her. But he knew then maybe something
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that Hosea didn't know then. God knew from the beginning
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she was going to be unfaithful. But even still, at a minimum,
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Hosea knew that she had already been unfaithful to him
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when he went to go pay to bring her back.
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Now I've got a question too, and maybe I'm just going to say this question.
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You're going to give me eyebrows and you're going to put it back to me
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because again, I don't know that I've got a great answer to this. Either
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he says, call and have a son and name your
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son this and name your daughter this, and one of them is
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named not loved. Right? The daughter,
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right? Yeah. There's a daughter name. Yeah. Not
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loved. Do we think that's metaphorical?
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And it's just like, hey, think about
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her. Like, just in my
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brain, it's like, hosea's got a daughter, and he's just like, hey,
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not loved. Come here.
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What?
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It was more a symbolic, but, like, her name was
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Jennifer, but just, like,
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symbolically, for the purposes
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of this book that we're writing, this prophecy that we're
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putting together, I want you to think
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of these children that you have in these stages that I'm
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taking Israel through. But as
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a dad of three daughters, in my heart, I just cannot really imagine that Hosea
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had, I'm sorry, dad. Why do you call me not loved? God
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told me. I don't know. You had any response
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to that or you just kind of like, because the story is
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wild. The story is wild. And then it always
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makes us uncomfortable. And so,
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like you said a minute ago, we start wanting to give God
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an out, but it makes it really difficult to pick which parts of
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this we think were real and which ones.
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It feels like this is the story,
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right? If we're all in, we're all in.
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This is happening. It is certainly shocking enough to
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make us slow down and really think about what's going on.
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Mean, we could have just started with the prophecies
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and all the harsh things that God is telling
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Hosea to say to the people, and it would have had some
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impact. But those first couple chapters,
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man, they make you stop and really think
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about what God's relationship was like with them.
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Which kind of leads us to the question, maybe we're already sort of answering it.
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What's the big idea here? What is the purpose of this
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book? What is God at his core? What is he trying to get
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across. To his, you know,
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just like Hosea has this marriage relationship with
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Gomer, there is this covenant relationship
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between God and his people, and he loves them
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deeply, and he expects that return of
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love and allegiance and
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obedience, and they've
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gone and given his love to
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another, to idols, to other deities.
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The covenant relationship is broken. And we get to see,
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this is how God responds to that.
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This is how this loving God works.
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Yes. So
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the foreign God that seems to have creeped in is
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called Baal, right? And
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Baal, apparently, literally translated, means
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master.
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And there's an interesting point in there in
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Hosea where basically what God says is
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you're no longer going to call me master,
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but we will have
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this love relationship again,
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which ends up being a play on words. Yeah, I saw that, but I didn't
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realize that background. So it's a play on words on it. It's
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like you are confusing me for this foreign God, which I
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am not. And you're worshipping this foreign God, and this foreign God is
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named master, but you're not going to call me master
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anymore. You're going to call me beloved. Right.
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And so he's literally talking about the name Baal
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that they're calling him, but also really kind of a, he's really
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asking them to rethink and reimagine
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what their relationship with him is like. And
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in a series that we did in January
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at the Grove, we're talking about all these different ways that we could love God.
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And then the one Sunday that you did, you talked about kind
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of heart relationship
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to me. That was kind of a big draw there of just kind of like,
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you view this as a master relationship. And
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it's not that there aren't elements of that,
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but I don't want you to think of it as turn yourself as, like,
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a rebellious servant. I want you to think
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of yourself as an adulterous spouse, which
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has a level of harshness to it, but it also has a
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level of heart in it
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where God's like, you're not just not
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doing what I'm saying. You have broken
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my heart the way my man Hosea's heart has been
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broken. And so as harsh as the book is, actually,
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it's also really rather tender. What do you think? Yeah, I agree. And I was
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just going to throw out one of my kind of a bow on that thought.
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The Hosea 66 is one of my favorite
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verses from the book that speaks to that, where he
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says, I desire steadfast love, not
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sacrifice the knowledge of God, rather than burnt
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offerings. This picture of, I mean, that's
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what I want from you. You've missed what I want from you. This is who
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I am. I want you. I want your heart.
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And yes, that plays out in obedience and these other things, but it's not.
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The burnt offerings minus the heart are pointless.
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Yeah. So the Baal, the false God, the
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master, you sacrifice to him, too.
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And so in some ways, you think, man, I'm making sacrifices. We'll call you by
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a different name. What difference does it make? You
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said, you're missing the point. There's something different that
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I want from you. I had that verse down, too, as a key verse I
21:45
wanted to talk about, and you go up just a few verses before it. I
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had this one, too. In verse three says, let us acknowledge the
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Lord. Let us press on to acknowledge him. As
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surely as the sun rises, he will appear, he will come to us
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like the water rains, like the spring rains that water
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the earth. Again,
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that's not the way that a master talks to a
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servant. It's not the way a king talks to a subject. And it's not a
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way a God talks to his followers.
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None of them would describe themselves as the
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spring rains that water the earth.
22:30
Like an embracing of God. It's going to be full of
22:34
refreshment and life and
22:37
connection. And so, like I said, even
22:41
in the strong words
22:45
that God is telling Hosea to say, we see
22:49
so much of this tenderness that God is wanting to
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have. And so I think you found it. I think verse, chapter
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six, those are the verses.
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If people read Hosea, people who really like this book, those
23:04
are a couple of the verses that they really connect with. Did you have any
23:08
others that really jump out at you? I might
23:12
say this for the end. I mean, the very last verse, I think, speaks to
23:15
that this is still powerful for us today, that this
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is evergreen and it's
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power, it is to a specific people at a specific time,
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but it's not just stuck there. Right
23:31
on that thought. I feel like
23:34
when we talk about these prophets,
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there's a lot of hard words,
23:42
a lot of promise of
23:46
God's judgment and accusation
23:50
of you've sinned against him, you've messed
23:54
up in this way or that way. And so a lot of the attention goes
23:57
there. But man, on the backside of each one of these,
24:01
and Hosea is a great example, man. There's this huge
24:04
message of hope and this tender heart of
24:08
God and the reality that it always feels like
24:12
this tension between his holiness and
24:15
what that means to be in covenant with a holy God. Right? And
24:19
then also his. But then a lot of times it's easy to focus
24:23
so much on that, that you miss that his love is huge,
24:27
right. And in the midst of his judgment, there's also this
24:31
grace and mercy. But it gets missed so much.
24:35
Yeah. I think one of the challenges, one of the struggles that we have
24:38
with books like this that have such a strong,
24:43
for lack of a better phrase, such a strong judgment
24:47
message to them, when we imagine, not
24:50
imagine, we understand that God is a very merciful God and the
24:54
sacrifice of Jesus. And we think about God
24:58
very often in terms of just being full of
25:01
mercy, full of grace. And then we read books like
25:05
this and they sometimes can feel off
25:08
putting or harsh. But really
25:13
the cycle is the same
25:17
because who Hosea is talking to here is a group of
25:20
people who are currently in active rebellion against
25:24
God. And there's two things that he is
25:28
desperately trying to communicate to a group of people who
25:31
are in active rebellion against him.
25:36
Don't I love you?
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And sometimes when we're on the other end of that, having
25:45
experienced that grace and mercy
25:49
from God, and we're kind of on the other end of that, having already
25:52
understood, I know, don't I
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know I'm not supposed to? And I know that God loves
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me. And then I read this book and it feels like that from
26:03
where I currently am reconciled to God,
26:07
that God is giving me this message
26:10
when you're not in the active rebellion
26:14
stage anymore. And so I think for a lot of us,
26:17
books like this should be
26:21
a refreshing reminder
26:25
of where I used to be. And
26:28
I think recognizing the context,
26:33
if you are a devoted follower of Jesus Christ, you are not
26:37
where the northern kingdom was in the early 8th century
26:40
BC, active idol worship, active
26:44
rebellion, active sin in every possible way. Complete ignoring
26:48
of God and anything that he wants. If you are
26:52
in that season, I'm glad you're reading
26:56
Hosea because stop and know
26:59
that God loves you. There's another verse
27:03
because I want to get to the part where kind of talk about the big
27:05
picture, but before we get to that, there's skip up a little
27:09
bit. I like this,
27:12
chapter four, verse six. And
27:16
God says, my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.
27:20
Because you have rejected knowledge. I have rejected you as my
27:24
priests. Again,
27:27
referencing a series that we did in January about
27:31
all the different ways that God wants to connect with us. There's so much heart
27:35
in here. There's a lot of description of active
27:38
disobedience. But then there's also this description
27:42
of, you know, how you got here
27:46
because you didn't
27:49
know. You were just wrong about who
27:53
I am. You have wrongly described me.
27:57
You have wrongly understood me because you have wrongly
28:00
understood me. You have broken my heart and are
28:04
in disobedience. And just kind of the interweaving
28:08
connectedness of those three things,
28:11
of a heart, love for God, an
28:15
active obedience, and a genuine thirst
28:18
and desire for knowledge about who he is. I
28:22
think you get a weaving of all three of those things.
28:27
We see it as like God doesn't like it when you sin.
28:33
That is true. God does not like it when you sin. But
28:39
what Hosea is saying here, what God is relaying to this people through
28:42
Hosea is so much deeper and more
28:46
complicated than that. All right,
28:50
so we've already shot ourselves in the foot a little bit by saying it's 14
28:53
chapters, so this is a longer one. And so for a lot of people,
28:58
this would not be a one sitting read. It might be a two or
29:01
three sitting read. So you would read this over a couple
29:05
of days. So we've given some people some historical context,
29:09
talked about the big idea. We've got
29:12
this story about Hosea and Gohmer. Hey, by the way, I'll tell you
29:16
this. When we were in the process
29:20
of naming kids, people would ask if we're going to give our
29:23
kids biblical names. It's like, yeah, we got a great name for a girl and
29:26
was Dorcas Gomer. Dorcas is a girl's name
29:30
in the New Testament. Dorcas Gomer. And our boy's name was
29:33
Rufus Puddins. Also two great names from the.
29:37
Anyways, big picture,
29:40
why should somebody want to read and study,
29:44
reflect on this particular book?
29:47
Oh,
29:52
man. Being completely honest.
29:57
Want to is a hard word. I think for me, my study of
30:00
this is heart wrenching.
30:04
And so one of the questions I like to ask in Bible study is,
30:07
what do you not like? Because I think, what do you not like kind
30:11
of reveals sometimes even deeper things
30:15
than what you do. You like. And what I don't like
30:19
is I don't like that God asked Hosea to
30:22
do a. It's a hard
30:26
story that
30:29
it's difficult for me to take in that break of
30:33
trust and at the same time very
30:36
effective in that I see that, man, I don't know that
30:40
I have that in me. And this
30:43
God, that's the truth about my story
30:47
and this truth about Israel and that God would be that kind
30:51
of God that would love at that level.
30:55
But it's not an easy one. It's like that movie you watch that I've heard
30:58
you say this sometimes about movies. It's like I'll say, is that one you should
31:02
go watch? And you're like, well,
31:06
it depends on what you're trying to get. If you're going to have a good
31:09
time and laugh, it's not the book to read. Right. But,
31:13
man, if the point is
31:16
made and it's one that will make you
31:20
cry. Yeah, I think it's one of those ones that
31:24
if I were going to motivate somebody to read it, it is going to stretch.
31:28
It is going to stretch your idea about who God is
31:32
and the way he looks at us and he does it in a way that
31:36
makes you so uncomfortable. You can
31:39
only choose to do it. It can't be
31:42
ignored. If you're really going to read it, you can't just read through
31:46
it. There's so many points along the way that you're
31:50
like, I'm sorry, what? And
31:53
your brain is going to have to process that. What did
31:57
I just read? And what does this say
32:01
about my God? And it
32:05
is either going to have to be completely ignored or it can
32:08
only expand your view and understanding about who God is and the
32:12
way he views us.
32:16
In that sense, I recommend it. But if you were saying it's not a
32:20
Monday afternoon feel good movie, right? It's not that.
32:23
If that's what you're looking for, if you're looking for a pick me up in
32:26
the morning before you head off to work, I wouldn't choose it. Also,
32:30
that verse I was talking about earlier in chapter 14, the very last verse
32:34
of the book, whoever is wise,
32:38
let him understand these things. Whoever is
32:41
discerning, let him know them. For the ways
32:45
of the Lord are right and the upright walk in
32:48
them. Let transgressors stumble in them.
32:51
And to me, that's the statement that just feels like that is
32:56
not just for one audience. This is
33:01
whoever is wise, let him understand these things.
33:05
It's like a call to hey, yeah, this book has power for us,
33:08
so you should probably spend some time in it.
33:13
I got no better way to end the episode than that, man. That's an awesome
33:16
word. Thanks for ending us with that. And
33:20
thank you guys for joining us. And I do hope that you'll spend some time
33:24
studying and reading Hosea this week. Honestly, if I were going to be
33:28
listening to this podcast, I think I would choose to
33:31
maybe try to read it beforehand and
33:35
then listen to this podcast and then read it after. Or at a minimum,
33:39
certainly spend some time over the next week reading and reflecting on
33:42
this prophetic book yourself. And
33:46
then next week we'll be in Joel. And so again, thank you so much for
33:50
joining us. Mark, as always, thank you for being here on the podcast
33:53
and hope that if you're not connected at the Grove church,
33:57
that you would take that step whether you're in town or out of town
34:01
and you can join us in person or you want to join us online. Either
34:04
way, we'd love to get to know you and connect with you and you can
34:08
find us@thegrovechurch.org slash Connect. Again, thanks for
34:11
joining us here on the Cultivate podcast at the Grove church.