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The Unspoken Grief of Fathers: Lessons from Kenny Stoddart · Father's Refuge

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: My life to change forever on that day.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Not only with the loss of a child, but with the aftermath of what comes with with such a devastating loss.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Time does heal all wounds.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: It does heal 'em.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're still gonna be there though.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's still a scar that you that reminds you every day.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: But we have to we have to find a way to move forward.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: My guest, Kenny Stoddart, and his wife, experience the stillbirth of their baby.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Kenny shares the grief fathers carry, how loss affects a marriage, and the struggle to navigate something no parent should face.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Our hope is that anyone who has walked this road knows they're not alone.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Kenny, thank you for being here.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And please feel free to skip any questions if it becomes too difficult.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for that.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's great to be here with you, James.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking forward to sharing.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do me a favor and introduce yourself to the listening audience.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to, yes.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Kenny Stoddart.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I am the founder of Iron Mind Advisors, which is an executive coaching firm, but I also am I'm an everyday person that has struggled with some of life's biggest challenges, and one of them we will talk about today.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: But my new mission is to help people that are struggling in those same valleys.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: I dedicated my life to doing that.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I live in Jacksonville Beach, Florida, and from here I call it headquarters, but uh I find myself traveling around and helping, and it's wonderful to uh join your audience today and share some of the story that I have to I have to absolutely thank you.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately we have that in common.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Having lost a child, lost two children over the space of twenty-five years, and uh it's not it's not something anybody wants to contemplate.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, Kenny, I appreciate your willingness to talk about something so personal.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Can you share a little bit about your child and the day your life changed when you and your wife experienced that loss?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: I can try, certainly.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think with anybody that has has been in those rooms or those shoes or held your baby for only a moment due to the circumstances, we'll quickly understand that it's not something that we oftentimes elaborate on or discuss our feelings about.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's such a sensitive topic and it's so gut-wrenching to relive.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that you never really want to revisit.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my my daughter was born on July 2013, and her name was Emmy Caroline, and she was a stillborn baby girl, as you mentioned.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we only had the opportunity to hold her for a few minutes, as I talked about, and obviously the pain, you know, we're we're I call it several years later, but it's still something that, you know, it's it's so near and dear and close to my heart.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like it was yesterday, but there's been a lot of healing, but my life did change forever on that day, not only with the loss of a child, but with the aftermath of what comes with with such a devastating loss.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much to learn.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's no manual for that, right?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's no instruction guide.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't do all the things that we didn't do the right things.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's no at the time I didn't know what the right things were.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Healing was a was a huge challenge.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a person now that I like to use life lessons as an opportunity to to give strength to others.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always said if there's that I I never want to be able to take anybody up on this, but if someone ever needed someone to talk to that's going through that, I want to be able to be there for that person because I have done it and it's it's horrific and it's there's nothing really anybody can say um that's gonna make anybody feel better in the moment.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: I latched on to this two shell pass.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um and in many respects it has, as years have passed, the healing has, like I said, has has taken form, and now I take away the learning lessons and the memories and what I did do right and what I could have done differently, and also how I can help others that that don't have anybody to talk to during this time, which is where I I kind of find found myself.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was of course had loved ones and people around me to talk to, but sometimes it goes beyond that where you need someone that's outside of that inner circle to to vent or to break down with or someone that's walked in those exact shoes before, which is which is tough to find.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um not that there's that we walk alone, but it's like I said, it's something that no one really does want to talk about on a regular basis.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Nor do I, but I am I do want to help people every single opportunity I can get, and that's one of the ways that I can that help in that that manner.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's one of the reasons why I created Father's Refuge 24 years later.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I hadn't even thought about doing that.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was talking to a doctor on uh my parenting podcast after I had ended recording.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was telling her about Jessica and everything that we went through and the fact that there's not a lot of support systems out there for men.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Back in 2001, I don't think there was anything.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe today in 2026, there might I think organization or the or the mental health, what's the word I'm looking for?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there are resources that have come so much more advanced than even in 2012, 13, 14 when I was in my storm.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even that the internet has changed a lot in the last twelve, thirteen, fourteen years, uh obviously, but uh sure there are better resources.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's you know, that's you know, our time and your time even before me was there there were very few.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and then there were several for the the the mother of the baby, and it's it's it's a sensitive area because a man, the father, also has tremendous loss during those times as well.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes as we we immediately go into fix or fight or flight mode and want to just make everything better with our our wife or the mother of the and m forget about taking care of ourselves.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: That was something that I struggled with just because of the sheer norm the sheer strength of the situation, the complete devastation and loss where everything's challenged all the way through to your faith and your core and things that are true to you.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: You you want to question those things.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And thankfully I was I never quickly regained my focus on my faith.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of those set types of situations that really takes it all out of you, and you know that unfortunately all too well.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a perfect segue until this next question, and you've explained some of it, but many people focus on a mother's grief, which is incredibly real, but father's grief too.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how did you experience grief during that time?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Differently.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: As I mentioned, I I wanted to make it all better.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was devastating to see my wife at the time hurt, hurting the way she was, and I forgot to process my own pain essentially, which was there.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I still work on that every day now, but at least I, you know, instead of sweeping it under the carpet and pr making, you know, hoping it would just go away, I do things like this and talk about it and you know make it make it known that, you know.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you're going through that, no one wants to bring it up.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: No one wants to talk about it.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: No and I understand it's such a sensitive area that, you know, when you're around friends, they just want to cheer you on and be glad that you're there and doing well.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so you put on your game face and you do that, and you know, eventually the the day-to-day stuff goes away, but the the heartfelt stuff doesn't.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the pain and the and the grief definitely continue to take its toll on anybody, right?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can't you can't just brush that to the side, the the amount of tremendous loss that's there.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I like I said, I can't say that I did all the right things, but what I can say is that I've learned a lot, and now when I walk with people through that through that very, very dark valley now, when I do, I I I know that I don't have all the answers, but I know that I have some of them because I've been there and I I I it gives me a sense of honor to to my daughter that I am able to honor her by helping others and you know, whatever works, but that's what works for me, truly.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's just a way to give back and say, like, you know, she touched me in a way that allows me to touch others.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Not something that I talk about really with anybody because it's so personal and private.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody wants to go away, you know, this thing that happened 20 or 12 years ago in my case, but it doesn't ever go away.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's a loss that you can never fully, fully process.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: But you do tend to so I I have my own way of paying respects or grieving, and that's by helping others.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's very helpful to my own recovery selfishly, but also it feels like it's uh something that I was asked to do by our Lord, and I'm grateful for that to be able to help in that capacity.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell So you've shared that the loss deeply affected your marriage.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: How did grief begin to change the dynamic between you and your wife?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell Not knowing how to deal with that type of situation at the time, I like I said earlier, there's no manual.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: At the time we were in a very new marriage, we were elated, we were newlyweds that you know our dream had come true to to get pregnant.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: We did that, and then obviously the unthinkable happened.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, our marriage was not strong enough to to last that.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't it, you know, it ended in divorce.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry to hear that.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: That thank you.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's this that's the sad part about it.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: What we do with it from here, what I've been doing it with, you know, and I know my my ex-wife, Christy, she she does a lot on her side as well to give back, and that's really trying to make the best of a situation.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, we were it was just such a we did not know how to process to heal, but there are ways to do it right.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: And again, those are I don't want to talk about how mine necessarily ended badly, because it did, and I I don't shy away from it, but I also know that there are things that can be done to make sure that that doesn't happen or to help that cause of not happening.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we grieved separately, and that's unfortunate, you know, and I've looked back on it a lot, but instead of grieving together, we we grieved separately, which uh which which uh naturally results in growing separately and grieving and healing separately.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And next thing you know, our connection was not the same.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, even from the the first moment of actual shock and grief is I went into fix it mode instead of understanding mode.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: And there's different ways.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I I'm not saying I did anything wrong or you know, we just didn't know.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And um so now, like I said, you you learn from these types of things.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Even the even the most difficult lessons feels like a a lesson in life that I was asked to be prepared for so that I could help others when they encounter such such things.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready for that.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And not not it's not something that I truly am proud of, but I certainly am ready for that because I have faced it and I want to be able to pay homage by helping others walk through that that journey if they're asked to do so.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a lot of raw emotions.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of pain.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Those feelings into words.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: But it's um it's you just can't you can't escape it.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like it just grief and loss just it just washes over you in waves.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you'll be doing good for twelve twenty, thirty minutes, an hour or whatever, and then you'll the it's like the the triggers are very intense and the emotions are very intense, and you you'll listen to the radio or you'll be watching TV or you'll be driving down the road and go by a restaurant or it's just a whole number whole bunch of things that can trigger those emotions.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's kind of cliche cliche, but you know, the there's a saying that says, you know, time heals all wounds.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and you you will never forget your loved one.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: We'll never forget our kids.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: They'll always be in our hearts, we still love them, we always will love them, but the the intense waves wave of emotions start to subside after time.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the triggers are not as f fast and furious as they used to be.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so so that makes it a little bit easier to deal with.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean it's been twenty plus years since Jessica passed away, and and I can talk about her and about her treatment and a lot of stuff for a while, but if I if I wade too deeply into the you know, experiencing the grief and then, you know, watching her her breathe her last breath, you know, and and some of that stuff.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: If I dwell on it for a little bit too long, then yeah, I'm bound to tear up a little bit because it's you're just dredging up old old memories.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they are uh I mean, I don't I'm not a man of few words ever, but this particular subject makes me fumble a little bit because obviously That's okay.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I it is okay.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the way and there's just not a pain that any that you can describe that's equal to losing, you know, a loved one, of course.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and then intensifying it with the child and then the aftermath of things like, well, you never really knew the baby or you never get to know the baby.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And these are the things that were said to me.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's are you kidding me?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you have like and again I don't that's not a subject that I need to dwell on.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: The point is is the pain that it's just it's so suffocating, and when those triggers do hit, yes.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I I do want to spin it into a positive if I can, which is very difficult.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: But what I do say to people or to when I'm walking is with them on their journey is that yes, time does heal all wounds.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: It does heal them.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're still gonna be there though.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's still a scar that you that reminds you every day, and that's okay.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: But we have to to find a way to to move forward and very, very easy to fall into a very unhealthy trap going through such such grief, and that's the part that really concerns me and part of my mission because I did.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I fell into a very unhealthy trap that you know, um you know, I tried to to use alcohol as a cure.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, that's a terrible terrible guidance, or that's not a cure for any of it, it just makes it that much worse.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, talking about it is incredibly useful.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Podcasting about it is incredibly useful.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's another voice to let, you know, if someone hears my story or your story and they they find some clarity in it or some comfort in it because they've faced a s similar situation, then I feel great about that.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: But in reality, it's very difficult to make a positive situation over something that's so challenging.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: But time does heal and memories become great.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: I like I said, I I've made it into an experience where there is something that I can positive that I can take away from it, and that is that I've added this to my list of things that I can speak with people about that I'm bringing obviously the highest level of credibility of because I've done it.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um unfortunately I've done it, but fortunately I have the ability to uh relate and listen and hug because of it, because that's a lot of what the healing is.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I know these are difficult questions and and I want to be sensitive to to that.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if I ask you a question and you really want to just move on, just let me know.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I understand that.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: No problem.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we've got a we've got a couple of tough ones here, and then we'll we'll move on into other things.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about lessons and reflection at this point.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: What advice would you give couples who are experiencing the loss of a child and are trying to hold the relationship together?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Healing together is so important, and I know it's hard because when you're dealing with grief at this type of level, loss at this type of level, everybody has their own way of kind of processing that and doing what they do to get through their you know, it's it's it's the ultimate test of survival when you're in that moment.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the advice would be do everything together and walk the walk, talk never lose leave your loved one.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that is probably the best advice I can give.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: But that's you know, the more practical side of it is take your time with the situation.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is not something that you take a couple days off with and get back to normalcy on Monday.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's this is something that you need to to work through and talk with and be around loved ones and find some some clarity and some next steps and figure out what's best for so but doing it together is is so huge.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you want that support from your loved one and vice versa.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's very important is don't try to tackle this one alone.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's not going to you know, it's not great to do that.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, one of the things that we did not do, which in you know, hindsight's 2020, right?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you can always reflect on mistakes made and milestones and challenges and struggles.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the mistakes we made is and our pastor who is he who was the director of pastoral care for a local hospital, he never once told us to get couples counseling.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: He never taught told us to get therapy or to consider therapy for the kids, you know, for my young kids.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I never got them therapy.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so so I would say that it's great to have family members that are around you uh that can that can support you and and just listen.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes there are no magical words to speak to make the pain go away, but but they can they can sit with you and listen, help you with housework and help you, you know, go out and have a date night while they watch the other children if you have other children.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Finding, I mean, call 211, that's United Way, and they they have programs out there in the community that all these corporations and companies pay into to provide, you know, couples counseling therapy.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's a church on it.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you live in the South, there's a church on every corner.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: They have pastoral care, they have family counselors, typically uh depending on how big the church is or isn't, will you know, determine what kind of resources they have.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to encourage people that are listening to not forget calling 211 or or going to a local church.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: If you belong to a church, then take advantage of whatever they might have to offer.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: And even if they don't have anything to offer, they can they can they can steer you in the right direction.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So Yeah, any type of you have to talk with people about this one.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's yeah, we didn't talk to anybody.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't even talk to each other.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a miracle of God we even survived that experience.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I and and the director of the funeral home, I don't know if I told you about this before, before we hit record the other day when we spoke.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: You did, yeah.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so sad.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing out of the director's the funeral home director's mouth, I could have smacked him.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, You realize 95% of all couples that lose a child wind up in divorce.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Of course, I was out of my mind.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know how I even had a you know, I was able to put a conscious thought together at that point, but because you know, they had just taken her body away from us, you know, at six o'clock that morning.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it was 10 o'clock that morning, I'm out with my pastor there, and he said that, and I was like, I said, I just rebuked that.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So my wife and I are believers in Jesus.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, It's gonna be tough, yes, it's gonna be hard, but we are not gonna wind up in divorce.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: We we will find a way through this, you know, and and you have to be very intentional, you know.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And when people say stupid things to you, whether it's whether it's a pastor or whether it's a family member or you know, the director of a funeral home, people are just speak out of ignorance and just don't take it don't take it personally, just understand that they just don't know what they're talking about, you know.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've had all the comments you should be lucky that it didn't happen.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I could I could talk for an hour about uh as she was going through that 14 months of treatment, yeah.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully for her to get healed.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but one of the biggest ones was one of my the director of uh in IT, I was at a local newspaper doing network support, and he he gave me an article about shark shark cartilage or some bone cartilage from sharks.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: That was supposed to be the you know, the biggest tool to use to, you know, use this and your daughter will get healed.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, well, thank you.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for giving this to me.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a hundred other things that supposedly would heal her that I was just like just overwhelmed with it.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, what?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, people think that they have good intentions and they should be able to do that.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, of course, they mean well.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but they mean well.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's like, come on, you know, you know.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had a lot of those, and it's like, oh my goodness, if you only know.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: So for fathers listening who may be carrying unresolved grief, what would you want them to hear today?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I would want them to hear that there is a way to find hope, healing from this this from such gross hardship.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: There really is.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's a message that comes out of every everything that we face in life, any adversity.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time, there's obviously no nothing that makes any sense of that.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: With my situation I did not want to fully heal essentially.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to fully heal to the point where I've you know, that was years ago.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: I barely remembered.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: I d I don't want to do that.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: I want to remember and I also re wanna remember what it's like to feel that level of grief and it almost encourages you to I know for me it's encouraged me to want to be better and uh continue to do great things.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Just not, you know, the the desire not to go back there essentially is propelled me into, you know, as I mentioned, working with people, but just being a having a better vision of uh identity, doing it working with a better purpose.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: All these things are subtle little changes that I made because of the experience that I went through and then the learning that I've made from it.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And there's all sorts of life lessons that come from such loss and grief.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: It certainly is uh humbling in its most dramatic fashion, but it's also you know, it's a lesson from from the Lord that he's got, you know, he doesn't put a challenge in front of us that we're unable to handle.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: If that's why he there's a there's many biblical sayings that reference that, but you know, I know I'm a strong person mentally, spiritually, emotionally, because of those things, and I'm grateful for that.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: I really am.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: So did your faith play a role in how you processed l that loss?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if so, how did it shape your healing?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Of course it did.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um my faith is my most important thing, and it shapes my healing by believing in that, that there is something good that comes from this that uh you know, again, these are things that at the time you never want to hear, it's very difficult to even pray about it.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: But but you end up doing so and blessings start to happen.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, f without faith, without that conversation, that without the ability to pray, I don't know what I would have done to fill that void, quite frankly.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it played a huge role because that's where I went.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I did when I was down and out.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: I even if it was I love to say the rosary, that's just being a Catholic, that's something I love to do.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And uh gosh, it became one of my most calming things to do when I was having a moment or just grab my rosary, go for a walk, and be grounded again.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: And there's so much that faith plays a that has the the role of faith has played, not only during and between then and now, but even now in my future, as I, you know, I'm launching a new career as a mental health counselor, and it's very faith focused, but it's also built around the fact that I I have these things in my these quivers in my backpack to, you know, they're just really intense life experiences that pack a lot of lessons into them.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: For that I like I said, I'm grateful because I'm working on passing them along and how they can make others be better every single day.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Kenny, do me a favor and and talk to us about I know you've got this organization and you have some lessons learned and and they're tell us about your I don't know if did you write a book or No, I uh uh that has been um on my mind and certainly presented to me and perhaps down the road, you know, right now I it was about a year and a half ago where I decided to pivot my career from from cybersecurity.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I was a twenty-seven-year industry veteran in the cybersecurity space, sales leader, struggled at the end there with some of these things where the some of these life experiences ended up taking, you know, causing me to be burnt out and struggle with alcohol and whatnot.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I I needed to fix myself and change some things, so I I took that, you know, to heart and really felt compelled to focus my life on helping others.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's when I decided to go back to school to get my master's in in mental health counseling so I can not only coach folks based on my lived experience, but have the scientific side of it.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: I really wanted to understand how my like my neuro, my brain functions throughout these things with grief and depression and addiction and things like that and why.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm the schooling portion of it has just been absolutely tremendous.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: But what it's all, you know, it's my Iron Mind Advisors business is that what I'm building my coaching business on, both a you know, a medical professional in the mental health space with lived experience as a coach and my athletic, I was a triathlet for for 15 years at the highest levels.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's a combination of the this massive desire to give back and help others while at the same time taking a look at like what am I give back?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what's led me down this path.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I took a look at what I'm good at, what I can relate to, what I can talk about, what I can help others with, and it's certainly coaching and guidance and mentoring and advice and career life, this and that.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: What it is is of this Iron Minds mentality, this blueprint that I is built upon, all these experiences that we're talking about.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it really summarizes itself, and no matter what we're facing, what type of adverse adversity or what type of goal we want to accomplish, what type of degree, what type of career change, what type of anything major in our life that we want to go get or accomplish or get through, that we can certainly do that.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: How we do that is we apply these principles that I talk about with my Iron My Blueprint is that we set set the stake in the ground and say, like, this is where the direction we're going, and it's not backwards.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're going forwards.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the tools that we're gonna put into place to do that.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna set goals, we're gonna peel back the layers, we're gonna and there's again, this is but the idea is what I'm trying to explain is I I'm not your my coaching process is not something that you're gonna be able to find on Amazon or get a manual from.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a it's a bespoke approach where it takes into consideration all of these types of things that people face over the years, whether it's the most challenging of them all, which would, you know, the loss of a child or but getting into your career, into your personal goals and accomplishments, and your identity.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I lost my identity to the job after 27 years.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was all I really knew and cared about.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was who I became, but it wasn't who I was because I wasn't giving doing what I was truly passionate about.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was great at it and it was amazing, it was a great career, but it was not who I was, and that that's an identity shift that I made.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when for me it was getting into the helping space, into being a therapist and or coach or life helper, whatever it doesn't matter what it's called, it's I call it in the helping space, but I immediately knew that this was no longer, this is not a job, this is not work, this is not something that this is something that I love to do.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's just have like this compound effect of greatness, and it it really started with the strength of my faith that allowed me to get through some of those biggest hurdles in my life and then have the wherewithal to say, I'm not going backwards anymore.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's what I'm doing now as a you know, I'm an entrepreneur, business owner, coach, but I'm also a student, and I've just switched my career.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I I put all the same things that I coach and teach about into practice in my daily life.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm the walking blueprint of this iron mind mentality.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: I want to lead by example, and and that's my coaching style.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's different and it's it's intense and it's great, and it's designed for people that want to do amazing things.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And getting over some of their biggest challenges are some of those amazing things that w that I refer to.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so let's break this down practically.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking to fathers, maybe mothers.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're talking to an audience of people that have experienced grief and loss in their life.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're listening to this podcast because you know, they want to uh get some information, right?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: They want information, they want to they want to hear our stories about how we experience loss and grief and how we have been able to walk forward and get beyond the horrible emotional pain and of all of that.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And some couples, like my wife and I, we we managed to stay together.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Was it a perfect situation?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's only by the grace of God that we that was what that was the glue that held our marriage together, our family, literally, our faith in who God is and understanding that he is the God of the universe and that our children don't belong to us, they belong to him.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: And our prayer was obviously in the beginning, you know, please heal her here on earth so that we can enjoy our life with her, you know, for years to come.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: But but we prayed saying that our desire as parents, we begged, cried, pleaded, please heal her here on earth, but thy will be done.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Again, he's the God of the universe.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I had to I had an epiphany to where I was like, oh wow, Jessica doesn't belong to me.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: She doesn't belong to Katie, she belongs to God.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: If his desire was to take bring her home and heal her there, then thy will be done.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's those were not easy words to say, you know, it's not not a flippant thought, you know, in that in that prayer.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: But we know by reading the Bible that that's the way we're supposed to pray, you know, you know, and um so anyway, so we have people listening to the podcast that it had that are experiencing pain and grief.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: They're at different stages.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know where they're at in their grief, but we we want them to know that there's help, that there's hope, that there's therapy they can they can go to, uh, they can go to their church, they can call 211.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of things that are available for people that are listening.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you do not have to you do not have to suffer alone.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: You do not have to, and especially the men, you know, men are not a lot of men don't have a high level of emotional intelligence, right?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm a byproduct of the 70s and eighties, and we were told that men don't cry.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: We were told that you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and whatever you became in life was because of your sweat and toil, right?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and a lot of those things that I grew up with and internalized were so so archaic and so brutal, right?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and so we want people to know that there is hope, there is light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not a freight train, right?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so, so there's a transition period at some point.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, there's several transitions as you move along in your your healing journey as you get further and further away from the moment of impact, right?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so there's there's there are periods of transition that you go through.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, so in in basic terms, thinking about the tools that you have available, what what are some of the steps fathers can make to start making that transition to go from from the depths of the emotions and the pain and the sorrow to seeing a little bit of light and moving forward and figuring out how to still have the memory of the loved one and and the positive memories and things that we want to hold on to.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: But how can we how can we transition and bring those those positive memories with us into our new our new life, the life that we are gonna have as we're transitioning?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Makes perfect sense.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I mean this is one of the most challenging phases for parents and for men and for parents in general going through this phase, and there's no manual, there's no advice that anybody's gonna give you that.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that I always give the advice to men that I work with all the time is to shed the cape, if you will.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: I call I I said I always use that analogy, take the cape off, leave your ego at the door.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: In this case, we're not necessarily referring to egos where we're dealing with very broken hearts and whatnot, but the fact remains the same is that when you're going through such tremendous suffering like that, speaking to the right people about it is great.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned many resources that are available, parishes, priests, churches, community groups, of course, whatever works for you.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's hard to find what works for you.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that all too well.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: I took me some time, and um but I I wouldn't give up on that so much.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would continue to try to find um the right people to talk to about such so so that you can work through that.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I used all the the tools to my that were made available to me.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them were great, some of them were not so great because it it depends, it really needs needs to meet you where you're at.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I know I don't have the all the answers.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: I have uh I do have a confidential text line on my website at ironmindadvisors.com where people can text me about these specific, and I'm not I'm more of a facilitator of if you need the right person to talk to, maybe I can help you find that person.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's person's me.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oftentimes it's not, it's but it's finding someone in your local area or someone that is in your network that might have suffered something similar or whatever it may be.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: But the first thing is to not internalize it, right?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm asking a question that I don't know the answer to, and the person that I'm talking to actually might not know the answer to it as well.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I applaud you for at least asking because that person, like if it's me, I might not know the answer, but I'm gonna go and try to find it for you and I'm gonna pass on some guidance, I'm gonna say a prayer for you, and that's one step in the right direction.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a step that many men or women don't take because they wanna and I get it, they want to cover up in a ball and be left alone and close the blinds and not be interrupted, and there is time for that too, and I I don't, you know, but that needs to the blinds need to get opened soon and the light needs to come back in.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: We need to get our belief system back in order, and we need to try to put some sort of healing mechanisms in place to get the train moving back in the right direction.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'll never have the right words and I'll probably screw it up every time I say it, but I'll be there to say it, and that's the most important thing.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Again, no one knows what to say.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I don't say it anything at all.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I just a high five or a a hug, if you will.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because those I just want to be a person that people know to, that they can go to.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a judgment-free zone, you can cry, you can whatever.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's that's just a first step.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: So is it okay for you think it's okay for men to cry?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: I cry all the time.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not all the time anymore, but I've had enough of them.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thankfully I'm crying tears of joy now because I have you know, when I was in my darkest moments when I was struggling, like I never thought I would get to where I am right now, and this is 12 years ago.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not talking about a big chunk of time, and certainly wasn't yesterday either.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: But there was a moment where I thought that this is gonna define me because it was such an instrumental moment, but it doesn't define me.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a piece of me that I'll never forget, and that I, like I said, I I cherish the opportunity to talk with people and walk with them and again get them facing in the right direction so they can continue walking forward as opposed to taking stepward step.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, Kenny, tell us about your organization business and how can people get a hold of you?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: The best way to get a hold of me is on my website at ironmindadvisors.com.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also on LinkedIn at LinkedIn forward slash case dottert.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very easily findable.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: My website is the best place to start.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: But like I said, I have a confidential text line there.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have a blog post on my website that, you know, I talk about these things and I I do.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot to be learned, and so I hope people will find some comfort in that.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: My organization, my my business is Iron Mind Advisors, where I focus on helping high performers after they've come out of some of these storms, how they get back on track to being the best version of themselves, which is very, very challenging to do after you've been you know what exactly what I'm saying, James, after you've been through it.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, helping them get back on track.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I I help people get back on track and then also do things that they're that are bigger than their wildest dreams, similar to what I did.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I again my my the loss was for me was 12 years ago, but I started visualizing what the future looked like.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: It took me some minutes to get there and some years to get there, but and now I'm doing a portion of that, but it's it's exceeded my wildest expectations, mainly by the amount of people that I've been able to reach and touch with the healing words of wisdom and whatnot.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, Iron Mind Advisors is the best place to reach me.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: But while it while you're there, you'll be able to see several different areas.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: I have a TikTok at Iron Minds Kenny.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have uh my Instagram at Iron Minds Kenny as well.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: These are all platforms that I use in different ways to talk to people about what it takes to get through and get b uh go above and beyond back into being like your ultimate version of yourself.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: I will be sure to add your website to the show notes.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you went and you you uh filled out the intake form, and so you have a great guest profile on Father's Refuge podcast.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: We have a we have a website called fathersrefuge.com.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: You can go there.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Kenny's um this episode will be released here shortly, uh pretty soon, like within the next, I don't know, two weeks or maybe less.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: And when you s listen to the episode, uh if you listen to it from the website, can you see Kenny's um guest profile.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: He's got all his uh social media links, his email address, you know, his website, all of that stuff will be there.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you you can catch me, you can catch all of that there.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of great stuff out there that I'm putting out.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you Google my name, Kenny Stoddardt, there's some of it's fun because you know you have to put a positive I've done a lot of great things since this loss, but the loss is still a huge part of who I am, and and I have to talk about it.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also talk about some of the other we talk about loss, we talk about the wins, the rise, the ups and downs.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a podcaster, so to speak.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I I love to be guests on and doing things like this.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: And there's but I am a helper of people.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love to help people answer questions they just don't know the answers to, I guess is what how to sum it up.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, Kenny, thank you for trusting us with such a deeply personal part of your life and your family story.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Conversations like this are never easy, but they matter.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: There are many parents who carry the quiet grief of losing a child, and hearing someone speak honestly about that loss can remind them that they're not alone.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: To the listening audience, I want to say thank you for the privilege of your time.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you're listening today and you've experienced the loss of a child, please know that your grief is real, your love for that child matters, and your story is not forgotten.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Moments like these remind us that fatherhood is not only about the years we get to spend raising our children, sometimes it's about the love we carry carry for them, even when they are no longer here with us.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: To everyone listening, thank you for being part of the Father's Refuge community.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Take care of yourselves, take care of your families, and we'll see you next time on Father's Refuge Podcast.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Kenny, for being here.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for telling your story.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's my pleasure.