Latest / King Dems Podcast | Growth Mindset, Leadership, AI and Business Insights / From Coca-Cola President to Unlocking Human Potential: Ahmet Bozer on the Art of Global Impact

Transcript

From Coca-Cola President to Unlocking Human Potential: Ahmet Bozer on the Art of Global Impact · King Dems Podcast | Growth Mindset, Leadership, AI and Business Insights

0:00
If the only reason, if the only reason you're doing this is to
0:04
earn money or to earn some status in in the society, if
0:09
that's the only reason that gets you only so far.
0:11
But if there is something bigger than yourself, something
0:15
contribution you're trying to makes, you're trying to make
0:18
life better for some people. And that doesn't have to be
0:20
grand things, but your mindset is about contribution, about
0:25
legacy. Hi there, are you a professional
1:20
or business owner teaching investors for sharing big ideas?
1:24
What your presentations just are not keeping up with your vision?
1:29
That's exactly why I use Gamma app are proud partners.
1:33
Gamma is an AI powered platform that helps you build beautiful
1:37
decks, documents and web pages in just minutes.
1:42
No complicated formatting, no design headaches, just clean
1:46
modern presentations that communicate your ideas clearly
1:49
unprofessionally. If you want to present like a
1:51
pro, Sign up today using the tool stack link in the
1:56
description below and start creating smarter with Gamma app.
2:00
We are live. Ladies and gentlemen, you'll
2:02
once again welcome to the Kingdom's podcast and diary of a
2:06
CFO. And today I've got with me
2:09
fighting out of Atlanta, GA Mick, welcome.
2:14
Ahmed Bozer. Very well.
2:17
Wow. What a joyful introduction.
2:19
Thank you for that. Doing very well.
2:20
Thank you. Thank you for having me on your
2:22
show. Amazing, amazing, amazing.
2:25
And of course, a seat back. Why?
2:27
We'll give you your flowers. Today's episode is a special one
2:32
because we're joined by a global Visa speeder whose carriers,
2:36
fans, continents, cultures and industries.
2:40
Our guest spent more than two decades at the Coca-Cola
2:44
Company, where he rose to become president of Coca-Cola
2:48
International and group president for Eurasia and
2:51
Africa. In that role, he helped oversee
2:56
some of the fastest growing markets in the world, including
2:59
India, Turkey, the Middle East, and Africa.
3:03
Beyond corporate leadership, he has served on multiple global
3:07
boards, including Turkish Philanthropy Funds and the
3:12
Advisory Board of Georgia State University.
3:15
Today, he is focused on something even deeper, unlocking
3:19
human potential. He is the author of Soldiery, A
3:23
framework built on the idea that growth begins with mastering our
3:28
thoughts, emotions, and mental models.
3:31
From leading global markets to mentoring readers and developing
3:35
a philosophy of personal transformation, this story sits
3:39
right at the intersection of leadership, mindset, and impact.
3:43
Ahmed, welcome to the Kingdom's podcast.
3:47
Thank you once again, Thank you Adam Allah.
3:50
You're welcome once again. So let's let's start, you know
3:55
from the beginning of your journey, right?
3:58
So you've actually spent more than 25 years at Coca-Cola and
4:04
essentially LED international operations across multiple
4:07
continents. When you reflect on that journey
4:10
today, what we are the defining moments that shaped you as a
4:15
leader. There are so many, but other
4:18
more I'll focus on a couple of them which share a common theme.
4:24
That common theme is sort of fusing what's seemingly
4:28
different or maybe sometimes opposite experiences into one.
4:33
So the most important one for me was being exposed to cultures
4:39
that are predominantly individualistic and those
4:43
cultures that are predominantly collectivist.
4:46
If you plotted all the countries around the world on the
4:49
spectrum, everybody would fall into some place.
4:52
But but certain characteristics of those cultures would make
4:56
them closer to being individualistic cultures where
4:59
you are constantly told you can do anything you want if you set
5:04
your mind to it. It's all up to you and your
5:07
borders are pretty defined. You know nobody will if they try
5:10
to breach those borders. That's culturally not
5:13
acceptable. Then you have these cultures
5:15
that are more collectivist where things like if I do this, what
5:20
would others say? Or I have to sort of deliver on
5:24
the expectation of my community or my family of those who are
5:29
close to me. So that's you're, you're more
5:31
mindful of what the society expects from you.
5:35
I think experiencing both of these cultures were fascinating
5:39
and I came to realise that neither one is perfect, neither
5:43
one is the right one. I thought I had to find the best
5:48
of both worlds by taking what's best in the individualist
5:52
cultures and what's best in the collectivist cultures and, and
5:57
then live those values yourself in your life to the best of your
6:00
ability. This helps me grow as a person,
6:04
but it also helps me grow as a leader.
6:06
And that was probably one of the sort of, I wouldn't say a
6:11
moment, but a defining process that helped me grow as a leader.
6:15
The other one was more on the business side where the
6:19
Coca-Cola system is comprised of the Coca-Cola Company itself and
6:24
the bottling organisations. Those are separate companies and
6:27
I've had the chance to work in both and in the course of
6:32
everyday life, you know, this relationship is very important
6:35
to the functioning of the Coca-Cola system and having the
6:38
opportunity to, to be in both also gave me that.
6:42
So those two, you know, 2 experiences of fusing or
6:46
integrating two sides of the same equation and experiencing
6:50
that in your life, I'd say those were the most fundamental
6:54
experiences that that helped shape my leadership style.
6:59
Interested. You know, looking at your
7:02
background, you come from Turkey and I would say you guys tend to
7:07
have more of that collective culture, you know, that is
7:14
similar to what we have in Africa, right?
7:18
And when I also tried to mirror your journey, I'm an African who
7:22
moved into the Western world, and what were you talking about
7:26
actually resulted in a culture shock for me.
7:30
That is looking at how individualistic the Western
7:34
world is versus how collective our culture back in African Asia
7:43
is. And of course, you know, like
7:45
you rightly said, there's no right way.
7:46
There's no wrong way, right and achieving that balance.
7:51
So how do you achieve that balance, you know, depending on
7:56
where you go to? And how do you still make people
8:02
see you as being authentic, That is, you know, leaving that
8:06
collective culture that you grew up with, but also adapting, you
8:11
know, optimal ways of getting things from the individualistic
8:15
culture. So how do you achieve that?
8:18
You know, balance based on context?
8:21
Yeah. You know, I've always believed
8:23
in internalising certain concepts, internalising ways of
8:27
being in such a way that if you've internalised this
8:31
integration within your way of being and just be authentic,
8:35
then you're able to connect with either culture.
8:38
So for example, by the way, for me to internalise something, for
8:42
anyone to internalise a value or a concept, it has to make sense
8:47
to you, right? So you have to reflect on what
8:49
makes sense in the individualistic society.
8:52
And that is one example is being achievement oriented.
8:57
That's wonderful and believing that you have a lot more in your
9:01
power to achieve what you're looking for than you think.
9:06
So pushing the limits, trying that, having time to yourself,
9:10
having your privacy, those are things all of us need.
9:14
And so therefore, you know, that makes sense.
9:17
And I feel I need all of those. Those are good for me.
9:21
So I internalise that and I try to live those concepts in my
9:25
everyday life. Then you turn to the
9:27
collectivist society. I come from a large family of a
9:30
lot of great friends and you know, I really enjoy when I'm
9:35
connecting with them, when I, when I share experiences with
9:39
them, when I share joys, when I share sorrows.
9:41
That human connection comes through the collectivist
9:44
society. So you then say to yourself,
9:47
yes, all of those that I've mentioned in the individualistic
9:50
society are great, but I also have to, this also makes sense.
9:54
I also have to internalise the fact that those are also good
9:59
for me. I cannot live without them.
10:02
So therefore, I have to live that as well.
10:04
Now, now that you have these beliefs and ways of being,
10:08
obviously you have to be aware of your environment, what makes
10:12
sense, you know, to bring out what doesn't make sense, to
10:16
bring out and try to adapt to those environments in the best
10:21
way. But let me tell you this, you
10:23
know, we're all human beings. Even in an individualistic
10:27
society, a human connection is valued very much.
10:30
So if you have that in you and where it is sort of appropriate,
10:35
then you activate that. That works.
10:37
That's a collectivist society feature, predominantly
10:40
collectivist society sort of theme, let's say.
10:43
But that doesn't mean that it won't work in individualistic
10:47
societies. The other way around is
10:49
sometimes could be difficult, but not every society is
10:52
homogeneous either. In each society you have people
10:55
who are more, you know, inclined towards this side or the other.
10:58
But if you have convinced yourself that this is very
11:01
human, aspects of both societies are very human.
11:05
We have just gone different ways in living those human realities.
11:11
And if you sort of accept that, make it your own, live it in an
11:16
context appropriate way, then I find that it generally works.
11:22
Interesting. You know you've been able to
11:25
lead teams across different regions, you know, Eurasia,
11:31
Africa, but what are the leadership lessons that silly
11:36
with you today for managing teams across different cultures
11:40
and different socio economic realities?
11:44
You know, something that I've realised fairly quickly is, you
11:47
know, as the number of countries that I was responsible for, I
11:50
was increasing. If you take an approach of
11:52
saying, OK, what's the specific culture in this country and how
11:56
do I adapt for that? I figured that's not the right
11:59
way to approach leadership. A better way to approach is
12:03
we're all human beings. The first question is what are
12:07
those common values, common principles that work regardless
12:11
of where you are? And you'd be surprised that
12:14
you'd find a lot of those values.
12:16
Then you could say, OK, I'm going to South Africa.
12:20
Yes, be aware of some of the cultural aspects there that you
12:24
sort of enrich your approach with that.
12:26
But the, the foundation of your approach is what's common to all
12:30
of us. I used to call this common
12:32
currency of humanity. These are invisible current.
12:35
This is an invisible currency. So what is an example?
12:40
You know, if I show genuine interest in you as a person in a
12:46
conversation, or if I demonstrate care in what we're
12:49
doing together, you would that that currency would sort of
12:53
transmit to you. You're going to engage
12:55
differently. And that works everywhere if I
12:59
demonstrate genuine respect for you, whoever you are.
13:04
That currency works if I recognise you for what you've
13:07
done well. That works everywhere if you
13:10
didn't do something too well, if I sort of carefully share that
13:15
with you. Anniversary of independence.
13:18
We wondered about a game plan for the country's future, so
13:23
Hall of Fame basketball coach Mike Schefsky drew one up.
13:27
For us. To build a championship culture,
13:29
you need talent and character. You then developed the values of
13:33
that culture. The best teams have the best
13:37
values. We had 7 Integrity.
13:40
Do the right thing. Respect everyone is important.
13:44
Courage. The courage to say or do what
13:47
needs to be said or done in that moment.
13:49
Selfless service, loyalty, duty, the dignity of work and trust.
13:55
Values based organisations stand the test of time.
13:59
Our country has great talent and for 250 years we have proven
14:05
that we stand unshaken by the tests of history.
14:09
Moving into the future, we must continue to teach, celebrate and
14:14
most importantly, live the values that have made America
14:19
the best country in the world. Well, said Mike Schefsky.
14:23
Many leaders actually struggle when they come from technical
14:26
activity into global leadership. So what skills did you have to
14:31
unlearn and relearn when you stepped into the executive
14:36
roles? Well, I transitioned to general
14:40
management, let's say from a financial role.
14:44
Interesting. So as a CFOI was, you know, my
14:51
character is also very much a control oriented character and
14:57
at the base of it. So as a when you're in charge of
15:00
money, I used to travel around. This was E midden EI used to
15:06
travel around with a bag this big.
15:08
Why? Because I had, you know, every
15:11
number with me that you can imagine.
15:14
If I had a question or if somebody asked me a question, I
15:17
wanted to be on top of everything as a CFO.
15:21
Exactly. So when I first got my, and at
15:25
that time Internet wasn't as pervasive and I would say during
15:30
that time was the first time we got introduced to the idea of
15:32
e-mail, you know, that was like mid 90s in the in the company
15:38
environment. So that was the technology of
15:42
the time. So I was walking around with
15:44
this huge bag. When I got promoted to the
15:48
general management role, I said, well, if I aim to be on top of
15:53
everything all the time, there's no way I could do this job.
15:57
So it's not just finance, there's all these other
15:59
functions. So I decided to reinvent myself
16:03
and it was more. That's when the people issue
16:07
became even more pronounced because you really have to trust
16:11
your team. You have to nurture a a great
16:15
working relationship with your team members individually as
16:20
well as as a team. So if I can, if I had a good
16:25
team and if I trusted in them, think I don't think I have to
16:28
walk around with a suitcase of information.
16:32
So that was the first thing I changed, and I have sort of
16:36
shifted my focus from doing the functional work into more trying
16:41
to understand, you know, what's involved in that general
16:43
management role. Then I discovered things like
16:47
when there is a difficult time, you sort of have to be there
16:50
with the people, like we had an earthquake, for example.
16:54
And then you have to genuinely authentically participate in it.
16:58
Sometimes as a worker, you know, we set up tents and stuff like
17:01
that, but also during these times, people would look to you
17:06
for sort of a, a constructive vision for, for, for hope in a
17:12
realistic way. So that means that leadership
17:16
will make you turn inwards even more because if you don't feel
17:19
that, if you don't feel that there's a better future out
17:22
there, you won't be able to convince your team to that.
17:27
But if you maintain your realistic but constructive
17:32
attitude towards what can be achieved and stretch yourself,
17:35
be willing to do that yourself. So I didn't experience that as
17:39
ACFO so much. But as I moved into general
17:42
management, I started learning that those are traits that are
17:48
very important for you to succeed in a leadership role.
17:52
So and then sort of, you know, you're not expect, you may think
17:58
because you're in a leadership position that you should know
18:01
everything, but you will never know everything.
18:03
And being at ease with that, being at peace with that idea
18:06
helps also. And so those were some of the
18:09
things, Adam. Before we dive back into today's
18:11
conversation, I want to share something important.
18:15
This episode includes a paid partnership with Better Health,
18:19
a platform designed to make starting therapy easier.
18:22
I know from my own journey as a leader and entrepreneur that
18:26
life can sometimes feel overwhelming.
18:29
There are seasons where stress, uncertainty, and pressure build
18:33
up, and you need a safe space to process it all.
18:36
That's where therapy comes in. Therapy isn't only for people
18:41
facing clinical challenges. It's a space to reflect, grow,
18:46
and find better ways to manage stress, relationships, and
18:51
personal goals. It takes courage to seek help,
18:56
but it's also one of the smartest investments you can
18:58
make in your mental and emotional well-being.
19:02
That's why I'm proud to highlight Better Help.
19:06
With Better Help, you simply fill out a short questionnaire
19:09
and get matched with a credentialed therapist in just a
19:13
couple of days. If the first match doesn't feel
19:16
like the right fit, you can easily switch therapies at no
19:20
extra cost until you find someone who truly connects with
19:24
you. Inside the platform, you'll also
19:26
find tools like journaling and group sessions on different
19:30
topics that can support your growth.
19:32
And with over 7000 reviews and a 4.5 Trustpowder, breeding,
19:38
Better Help is a platform you can rely on.
19:41
So if you feel like you'd benefit from talking to a
19:44
therapist, visit betterhub.com/kingdames.
19:49
That's betterhub.com/kingdames to get 10% off your first month
19:56
of therapy. Once again, this is a paid
19:59
partnership with Betterhelp and I encourage you to take that
20:03
first step. If you've been thinking about
20:05
it, sometimes the best investment you can make these in
20:09
yourself. Interesting, interesting, but
20:12
you know, that's quite interesting to have a guest like
20:16
yourself who who addresses both sides of the population that we
20:21
cater to. So we have diary of a CFO and of
20:25
course, who better that, you know, an extra calculus CFO to
20:29
address that side. And of course, you know, you
20:31
have a King James podcast, which is aimed at mindset, AI,
20:36
leadership, business insights, right?
20:39
And of course, you're also an amazing individual to address
20:42
that side of the audience. Now it's interesting to see the
20:46
evolution from CFO to CEO, you know, among individuals, you
20:52
know, as CFOs, we tend to, you know, be primarily concerned
20:56
about the numbers. But when you make that move to
21:00
CEO, you a lot of people are met with a weird awakening that it's
21:05
not just about the numbers, but also about the people.
21:08
So when you were president of Coca-Cola International, you
21:11
were actually responsible for markets with billions of
21:15
customers, right? So how do leaders make high
21:19
stakes decisions when the scale of impact is so enormous?
21:24
Yes. You know, decision making is
21:27
both an art and a science, and the greater the stakes, the more
21:31
the art side comes into play. So one of the things my father
21:36
had taught me was Sonny said there's a process to decision
21:41
making. In other words, you have to
21:43
think about how you're going to decide before you decide.
21:47
I think that was a very important learning.
21:50
You have to decide how you're going to decide, and sometimes
21:54
in that how you have very rational exercises.
21:59
So you have analysis or you have research, or you say, OK, what
22:05
are my options? What are the pros and cons of
22:08
each option? A very cerebral process, very
22:11
rational process. But that's the science part.
22:15
There's also the art part. It's what you feel.
22:18
Maybe it's in your gut feel. It's deciding who would be the
22:21
right person to talk about this. You know, reaching out to your
22:25
network, knowing who to ask, knowing, knowing what to ask.
22:30
These are more the art part of decision making.
22:33
And each decision requires a different mix.
22:36
And at the end of the day, you're never sure whether you've
22:41
made the right decision because you know, if you haven't made
22:44
that, you don't know if you haven't made that decision, what
22:47
would have happened. So you will never know that, you
22:51
know what happens once you make that decision and you say, OK,
22:54
it looks good. It's, it looks like I've made
22:56
the right decision. But sometime down the road, you
23:00
might recognise an unintended consequence of your decision and
23:03
say, oh, I wonder if it, if I did the right thing.
23:05
So it's decision making is something like that.
23:08
It's art and science. And if you try to be absolutely
23:11
sure about whether you've done the right decision, if you, if
23:16
you occupy yourself on being perfect, on making that
23:19
decision, then you don't make a good decision necessarily.
23:23
But it is important to be thoughtful about it.
23:26
It's important to be used both your rational side and your gut
23:30
feel and your the people around you who might help you.
23:34
There's a very nice Turkish saying that maybe summarises
23:38
this. It says, you know, talk with a
23:41
lot of people, think with few, decide for yourself, decide
23:48
yourself basically not for yourself.
23:50
So I always found that very useful, very helpful, because
23:56
once you allow, of course, that assumes, you know, the decision
24:00
that you have to make has a certain time.
24:02
Like it's not, you don't have to make it today.
24:05
If you have time, it's good to let it extend over this time,
24:11
and through this process you start discovering things that
24:16
you otherwise might not have by following this kind of a an
24:19
approach. Interesting.
24:20
You know, something I've realised over time is the best
24:23
decisions I've never made in a hurry.
24:25
So it's, it's always good to yeah, yeah, think before you act
24:30
right. But what, what frameworks would
24:33
you say have actually helped you to balance short term business
24:37
results with long term market growth?
24:41
You know, you always look for first of all, you have to accept
24:44
that, you know, there's always short term goals you have to met
24:49
meet and there's also long term goals.
24:52
In other words, you can't be too idealistic and say, oh, I'll
24:56
never make a decision that helps me in the short term but hurts
25:01
me in the long term. Of course, if you could, that's
25:04
wonderful. But I try to look at making
25:07
those short term decisions in a way that they contribute to the
25:10
longer term where possible. And then the important thing
25:14
though, is to run your business in such a way that short term
25:18
crises, short term surprises are minimised.
25:22
This means you've established system structures, cultures,
25:27
people, a good planning discipline.
25:29
So all of these in a well run company, excluding like external
25:34
shocks that you that is not in your control.
25:36
If you have your house in order, you already minimise the sort of
25:42
disruptive short term actions you have to take.
25:45
But then there would still be short term goals.
25:48
To the extent that you can set them in a way that they
25:51
contribute to the achievement of your longer term goals.
25:54
That's the ideal. You try to do that the best you
25:57
can. So, Luchenbach, was there any
26:01
difficult decision that taught you a lot about leadership and
26:06
responsibility? Yeah, there were certain
26:09
organisational decisions and people decisions.
26:12
Those are the harder ones and, and sometimes also commercial
26:16
decisions that taught me a lot. And I think what what what these
26:21
decisions teach you mostly is you really have to believe in
26:25
your believe the rightness of your position in what you're
26:29
doing. Because when in these decisions
26:32
you have a lot of objections or a lot of criticism and all of
26:36
that. If you really believe in what
26:38
you're doing, you have to hold your ground, not as a stubborn
26:41
person, but more as one that continues to explain why that's
26:47
the right thing, continue to win people over about why that's the
26:52
right thing. And if you have the belief and
26:55
inner strength in youth, then you can do that.
26:57
If you are easily swayed by external pressures or external
27:04
criticisms and stuff like that, then you're not going to make
27:08
the right decisions. Interesting.
27:10
So Speaking of right decisions, right, you actually spent a lot
27:14
of time in your career leading growth in emerging markets like
27:19
India, like Turkey, like Africa. A lot of people complain about
27:24
emerging markets saying they are full of challenges, but I see
27:29
that they are full of opportunities.
27:32
So what did you learn about, you know, taking on these challenges
27:37
and also what I see harness and the opportunities that exist in
27:41
this emerging markets? Yeah.
27:44
And I'm with you. You know they are full of
27:47
opportunities. There are opportunities in
27:49
developed markets as well, but the opportunities in emerging
27:52
markets are from a business growth standpoint are probably
27:56
even greater. I think the key would be your
28:00
time horizon because the emerging markets can go through
28:03
a lot of volatility, ups and downs.
28:07
So if you view these markets with a longer term mindset, you
28:12
know that there will be ups and downs.
28:15
So when the downs come, you focus on how to strengthen
28:19
yourself through that downtime because that downtime will be
28:22
over. And then when it's back into the
28:25
normal business, you have built yourself more strongly and
28:28
you're better positioned to take advantage of the opportunities.
28:32
So that's probably the fundamental approach to it is to
28:35
take the longer term horizon and look for the downs to make
28:39
yourself better through them. Interesting.
28:41
So for the founders and the CE OS that are listening today,
28:47
what are the biggest mistakes that companies make when
28:51
expanding internationally? What What are the biggest
28:55
mistakes that companies make when making global expansion?
28:58
Yeah, a common pitfall is let's say you are accustomed to doing
29:03
business in your own country, right?
29:05
And you sort of think, OK, the country where I'm going, the
29:10
same approach by and large would work.
29:14
For example, you know, you may have a distribution system that
29:18
works especially well for you in your home country, but then go
29:23
to another country. That may not work as well
29:26
because it may not be the same circumstances.
29:29
Or the pricing approach, you may be a, you know, very premium
29:34
brand in your own country, but you go to another country,
29:38
nobody knows you and you try to start out as a premium that has
29:41
its risks maybe because you, you know, so it's everything is
29:45
about the context and first really, really understanding
29:50
what are the critical SuccessFactors in the country
29:53
you're going to. And that's not easy for that
29:56
many times you need good, reliable local partners who sort
30:02
of know the market, who are honest, you know who you can
30:05
partner with in a productive way.
30:08
So that will be the biggest mistake to avoid, to not assume
30:14
that what has worked for you in 1-2 or three countries, even 5
30:18
countries will work in the next one.
30:21
Each one has its own dynamics, and each one requires a careful,
30:26
thoughtful strategy to. Interesting, you know, Speaking
30:31
of, you know, local context that there's something Coca-Cola does
30:35
in my country, Nigeria, we even have our own branded Coca-Cola,
30:41
you know, and Nigerian Fanta as well.
30:44
It's interesting how even in London, Nigerians still go for
30:48
the Nigerian Coke and the Nigerian Fanta because that is
30:52
sort of like customised for us. Is there, is there, is there a
30:57
treat to it, especially with Coca-Cola?
30:59
I go to some countries and then I'm like, oh, that is the Coke
31:03
for Turkey. That is the Coke for Romania,
31:06
that is the Coke for Belarus. But oh, what's up with the
31:09
branded and customization of Coca-Cola products for certain
31:14
special countries? Well, that's getting us into,
31:17
you know, coke business. And as you know, I've, I've been
31:20
away from that for the last 10 years.
31:23
So it wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment on, you know,
31:27
formulations or anything of that sort.
31:30
OK, OK. But like it's, it's clear you
31:33
guys would do that market differentiation for certain
31:37
would I say certain markets and it seems it seems to be working,
31:41
but like in your own view, what separates companies that
31:44
successfully globalise from those that feel outside of their
31:49
home markets? What's what's the
31:51
differentiating factor? Yeah.
31:53
I guess you know, every products, every brand has, you
31:57
know what appeals maybe more universally and then what will
32:01
have to be adjusted locally. Sometimes a certain product may
32:07
just work universally and and that's great.
32:09
You don't have to adjust anything.
32:11
But let's say you know, you know, some countries, you know,
32:15
orange juice consumption may be so big that it's so relevant in
32:19
some others, it may be apples. You know, depending on what your
32:22
product is, what your brand stands for, it's always finding
32:26
that right mix of, you know, where something is universally
32:32
relevant. That's great.
32:33
That means you don't have to spend time and money to I try to
32:36
localise it. But if that doesn't work, you'll
32:39
have to do to do that. So each product, each brand will
32:44
have to be find their own unique mix for that.
32:49
Interesting for their market feeds.
32:51
Let's talk about leadership, you know, and mentorship because
32:56
after your corporate career, you transitioned into advisory and
33:01
board role. So how does leadership change
33:05
when the role moves from being an operator to being an advisor?
33:10
Yeah, You know, and I've also had some, you know, formal board
33:14
roles and the advisory roles. You know, the key there is to
33:18
sort of shake off your mental habits of being an operating
33:23
person. When you're an operating person,
33:27
your mind is shaped in a certain way, you're operating.
33:30
But when you're in a board role, you're governing, you're not
33:33
operating and that has its own dynamics.
33:37
You have your fellow board members who participate in that
33:39
governance, you have certain rules and regulations you adhere
33:43
to etcetera. And you know you have more of a
33:48
long term strategic stewardship oversight, let's say, not
33:52
stewardship and oversight responsibility and looking at
33:54
risks over the long terms. It's that kind of focus in the
33:59
board roles, and you just have to keep in check your previous
34:03
operational experience to a point that you're not intruding,
34:07
you're not creating a sense of mistrust or intruding
34:12
unnecessarily into management's work.
34:15
Once you do that, and then of course the other changes, you
34:18
know, when you're operating, you're always on top of all the
34:21
issues, right? But then when you're in these
34:23
board roles, you come in and out maybe every three months, every
34:26
four months. So it is important that when you
34:30
sort of jump in, you're well prepared and that you can play
34:33
your role in the best way. So that preparation is also very
34:37
important. Interesting.
34:39
So what do great boards do very well that every boards fail to
34:44
do? Yeah, I don't know.
34:46
I mean I have been in probably, I don't know how many, 8 or 9
34:49
maybe. But so it's it's hard for me to
34:52
generalise, but what makes sense to me is do you have a sort of a
34:57
good complementary set of skills for the task at hand?
35:03
So for example, you know, do you have somebody with a technology
35:06
or AI background, today's world, right?
35:09
Or do you have someone with a people focus?
35:11
Do you have someone with expertise in the business
35:14
itself, deep expertise. So I think that that formation
35:18
is, is that you have complementary set of experiences
35:22
in the board and then you know, the culture and the environment
35:26
of the board is very important. Is there participation from all
35:29
members? Is everybody able to contribute
35:32
to what they can? And you know, is there like a
35:36
healthy mix of both harmony in the board, but at the same time
35:41
healthy differences of opinion and discussions about them?
35:44
So it's those kinds of cultural elements are also important in
35:49
addition to the complementary experiences.
35:51
And then there's a bit of discipline in how the board is
35:54
run, right. It's not you don't get your
35:57
board materials day before the next meeting and there is good
36:01
follow up and and all of those things.
36:03
So those are the things that come to mind that make things
36:07
work. And in some cases, you know, the
36:09
discipline may not be there. In some cases, maybe, you know,
36:13
it's not run in a way, it's run in such a way that only few
36:17
people always talk and the others listen.
36:19
So now I'm not saying people have to say something because
36:22
they have to say something. No, but it's the dynamic of is
36:26
there as wide a participation as possible.
36:29
So that, that kind of thing, I think that makes the boards
36:33
effective. Interesting, So if you actually
36:36
mentor many leaders today, what common mindset barriers prevent
36:41
talented professionals from reaching their full potentials?
36:45
It's really hard because in our world today, everybody works
36:50
long hours just to keep up with what's going on.
36:53
And it takes a certain kind to be able to step back from all of
36:58
that and take a look at themselves, take a look at
37:01
business from a distance and have a good conversation about
37:07
what's holding us back and what you know, and that it's not so
37:12
much the mindset. I, I find people to be open
37:15
quite, you know, they, they're willing to listen, but just the
37:19
pressures of every day makes it very hard for them to be able to
37:23
step back and, and look at things with a cool mind.
37:26
And that's hard. That's hard.
37:27
Now you may say that's because the leader isn't able to
37:31
delegate properly because they now miss the time for
37:36
themselves. And that's probably true that
37:38
maybe that's the mindset question.
37:40
You know, as I think about it, that try to set your work up in
37:46
such a way that like you're not so swamped and you're like
37:49
you're accessible. You're able to have time to
37:52
think for yourself, think, you know, have self reflection time.
37:56
It's those kinds of factors, I think that allow people to to
38:01
grow. Then you can also have your
38:03
classical things like I know everything, right?
38:05
No, that's not the way to do it. Not being open to other views.
38:09
And there's not a black and white answer on that because
38:11
sometimes you are right, Sometimes you know, you can't,
38:14
you shouldn't listen too much. Sometimes you have to.
38:16
So it's it's a balance you have to find.
38:18
But but if you sort of if you're wrapped up in everyday business
38:23
going on, you never have a chance to step back from
38:25
yourself and reconsider those, that's where the problem.
38:28
You know activity doesn't necessarily generate
38:31
productivity. Let's talk about your book.
38:36
You know the philosophy of Soul Tree.
38:39
Amelia wanted to host a webinar, but the tool couldn't deliver.
38:42
Zooming out, she turned to Webinar Key, an expert solution
38:45
for webinars. With seamless setup and
38:47
intuitive design, she delivered the perfect webinar.
38:51
Webinar host webinars like a boss.
38:55
That book introduces the idea of doing a kind of self surgery on
39:01
our thoughts and emotions. What inspired you to develop
39:04
these? Frameworks.
39:05
So when it was time to move to to my next chapter, I gave a lot
39:10
of serious thought to what I should do next.
39:13
Sort of what might have seemed natural is, well, go on and
39:17
either work as an executive again or just participate in a
39:21
number of boards. But I wanted to share what I
39:23
learned from my experiences in the interest of developing
39:29
better leadership as I saw it. So I decided, you know, the a
39:34
good way was to sort of capture my thoughts somewhere in a book
39:37
and then maybe I can publish that book at some stage, which I
39:41
did. But an interesting thing
39:44
happened in that process. I've always believed that for me
39:49
to be a better leader of others, I have to become a better leader
39:54
of myself. And when I step, when I realised
39:59
that's, that's been my approach to leadership.
40:02
So if I'm going to write anything, I'm not a scientific
40:05
person, you know, I'm not a, this is not based on any
40:08
science, It's based on my experience.
40:10
If it's going to be based on my experience, then it has to
40:14
honour that principle. Leading yourself better before
40:18
you lead others better. So but then when I dove into
40:22
that subject, self leadership. I found myself in really the
40:28
realm of what's growing as a human being, you know, because
40:33
if I'm going to lead myself, what am I going to lead myself
40:37
towards? What is it for?
40:39
What's my end goal in leading myself?
40:41
If you're leading a company, your end goal may be to make
40:44
more profits or to add more value to your stakeholders.
40:49
What's the end goal of leading self?
40:51
I decided that was this, just like businesses, we also have
40:58
incredible potential of what we can accomplish and who we can
41:02
become. The kind of person we can
41:03
become. It's both accomplishments for
41:06
the what and the how both. So if that's the goal of self
41:11
leadership, to discover and realise ever more of my better
41:15
self. So I found myself in this
41:18
concept of working on yourself to realise that potential.
41:23
And I said, what does that feel like, man?
41:25
It looks like it's like you're doing self surgery.
41:28
You're doing surgery on yourself.
41:30
And that's how the name came up, Self Surgery of the Soul.
41:33
So yeah, it was like a desire to contribute something in the area
41:37
of leadership. And if you dig deep into its
41:41
foundations, I ended up spending this time on what I called
41:46
initially self leadership. But then what in reality was way
41:51
a framework to continuously realise your better self through
41:57
life, through your everyday life?
42:01
OK, many people focus on external success, but the
42:05
neglect that, you know, growth. Why do you think, or why do you
42:10
believe that personal transformation is the real
42:13
foundation of leadership? Because that approach avoids
42:19
having to pretend. In other words, if my inner self
42:23
is strong, meaning I can manage my emotions, I can decide what
42:28
skills to build, I can build those skills, I can increase my
42:32
wisdom, I can know more about things.
42:34
So, you know, all of that is included in your inner self.
42:37
I'm including your skills in your inner self.
42:39
You're building your skills. So if those are there and you
42:43
just authentically or you're authentically present in all
42:47
situations, you don't have to pretend.
42:49
That inner self comes out naturally if you sort of ignore
42:53
your inner self and just focus on what am I going to do today
42:57
in this job or but then, you know, your inner self is sort of
43:01
struggling there. Yeah, maybe you might be able to
43:04
sort of twist some arms or force some solutions, but that that is
43:09
not sustainable. But if you keep building a
43:12
stronger inner self, which I include in the book, in that
43:15
inner self, your wisdom, your character and open heart and
43:21
your skills, those are the four things, your skills, which
43:25
includes your job skills as well as your soft skills, those will
43:29
naturally come together in your job.
43:31
They will come together in your role as a family person, like if
43:35
you're a father or mother or so just keep building that inner
43:40
machine. Keep building that inner machine
43:43
and reflect them through your roles in an authentic way.
43:47
That's how your performance is sustained.
43:50
I'm not guaranteeing success for two reasons.
43:53
Success may be different to you than it is to me.
43:57
It's a relative thing, what you consider success.
43:59
But what I'm saying is that you can sustain a high performance
44:04
through this through on an inside out way.
44:08
There's a. What would you say are the key
44:10
mental models that people have to master to unlock their true
44:14
potential? What?
44:15
What are those mental models that people have to unlock to
44:20
unlock their true potentials? Yeah, and of course, you know,
44:23
there is no one right answer on these, but what Soldier says is
44:27
being a meaning seeker. In other words, if you're in
44:32
doing a job, if the only reason, if the only reason you're doing
44:36
this is to earn money or to earn some status in in the society,
44:42
if that's the only reason that gets you only so far.
44:45
But if there is something bigger than yourself, something
44:49
contribution you're trying to makes, you're trying to make
44:53
life better for some people. And that doesn't have to be
44:55
grand things. But your mindset is about
44:58
contribution, about legacy. That doesn't mean you ignore
45:03
your financial goals or other personal goals.
45:06
You don't ignore them, but you put them into the context of the
45:11
contribution you're making. So that's, that's I'd say that's
45:15
actually 2 mindsets. 1 is that you're seeking some meaning out
45:18
of what you do. And the second one is that
45:21
meaning usually comes in the form of some sort of a
45:24
contribution, some legacy. I call this a legacy mindset.
45:28
So being a meaning seeker, having a legacy mindset, those
45:32
are couple of the mental models. Then how do you engage with
45:37
people at work, at home, in your society?
45:40
You asked earlier about how do you engage in different cultures
45:44
And I talked about this common currency of humanity, those
45:47
common currencies that there are certain qualities like
45:50
integrity, courage, fairness, respect, humility that connect
45:56
us more closely with one another.
45:58
If if I approach you with respect and humility, and you
46:03
know, you probably will be more approachable, you'll probably
46:06
engage with me more. So the third mindset is to have
46:11
that kind of authentic human connection, you know, behaving
46:17
with these qualities that connect us to one another.
46:20
That's the third mindset, meaning legacy human connection.
46:26
The 4th one I'd say is resilience.
46:29
All the problems we face, all the adversity that finds us when
46:33
we're not expecting the most, do we have the mindset of
46:37
approaching that so that we grow through them?
46:41
We truly do that. And then finally, I'd say if you
46:44
take these four mental models, you can always improve how well
46:50
you are acting on these. There is no perfection in them.
46:56
Sometimes you'll do well, sometimes you'll fall.
46:59
How consistently? How well?
47:01
So let's say take a certain human quality.
47:04
If I'm connecting with you, how deeply am I connecting?
47:08
I can always improve on that. I can always grow in each one of
47:11
them. I can connect with my meaning
47:13
every minute of my life. You know, that's a way out goal.
47:18
I can apply a growth mindset to my challenges certain way.
47:22
Now I can improve on that. So in all of these 4, you are
47:27
constantly growing yourself, continuous growth.
47:30
That's the 5th mindset. So I'd I'd say SOLDIER sort of
47:34
boils down to those seeking meaning, having a legacy
47:37
mindset, engaging with human qualities that connect you to
47:42
other people, finding growth opportunities in your
47:45
challenges, and then continuously growing yourself no
47:50
matter where you are in life. Those were the five mental
47:53
models, I think, that lay a robust foundation for growing as
47:59
a leader. Amazing so where where can
48:01
people find the book soldier? Is it an Amazon or what other
48:05
platforms is it on? And can we have the link in the
48:09
description? Yes, yes.
48:12
The book is available in three formats, both in print in Kindle
48:20
and an audio book. An audio book is pretty much in
48:22
every platform from Spotify to Audible to Storytell.
48:28
Whichever country your audience is in, they can look it up as an
48:31
audio book. They can download the Kindle and
48:33
they can purchase the print book through Amazon and many of the
48:39
other US retailers and they can also.
48:42
What I would recommend to them is this before they buy the
48:45
book. Now, if they listen to this
48:47
podcast, that is. I really want to buy the book.
48:49
OK, go ahead and buy the book. But if you're not sure, go to
48:53
the website whichissoldry.com, vw.soldrysoulgery.com and sort
49:01
of surf that website a little bit.
49:03
Try to read some of the things. Try to look at the Soldry model
49:08
and see how it does approach growth and all of that.
49:11
Then they can, from there, they can Click to the in the book
49:15
page, whichever retailer they're going to buy it from, they can
49:18
go there. Also, they can follow me on
49:21
LinkedIn with my name and I engage, you know, I share short
49:26
videos every week. They can, when they're in the
49:29
website, they can join my newsletter.
49:31
I'm sending monthly newsletters on how to live soldry so there's
49:35
all these ways they can engage with soldry, including buying
49:39
the book. Amazing, amazing.
49:40
I will definitely have that in the description section.
49:44
So let's talk about the future of leadership and of course,
49:48
human potential. Having worked across corporate
49:52
leadership, philanthropy and education, what gives you the
49:57
most hope about the next generation of leaders?
49:59
Well, I'm always, you know, I'm not one of the kinds who enjoy
50:04
conversations when people say things are so bad and oh, we're
50:07
done. You know, life will always serve
50:11
us. Life will always serve us, you
50:13
know, disruptive things as well as opportunities.
50:17
There will always be adversity, unexpected challenges.
50:20
My view is this will never end. And we have to focus on what we
50:25
can produce, what we can make happen.
50:27
On the on the more positive side, I'm quite one of the
50:31
things that's very encouraging for me is that as I was
50:33
socialising the book, I get feedback from many saying this
50:37
is what this new generation is looking for, they're seeking.
50:40
And if that's true, which I find that it's true in many cases,
50:44
that's very encouraging because that means people want to have a
50:49
sense of meaning, a purpose, and they want to integrate their
50:52
lives behind that purpose. That's a wonderful awakening.
50:56
We didn't have that when I was young.
50:59
We were pretty much like, OK, you're going to graduate from
51:02
college and you're going to get a job and you'll get married.
51:04
And it was like a pretty much laid road map for us.
51:09
And we follow that. But this generation is asking
51:12
for meaning. They're questioning things.
51:13
I think that's very encouraging. I'm also quite encouraged about
51:17
what AI can do for humanity. Now, I do have to say this will
51:21
be a very, very disruptive period, you know, and because AI
51:25
can be an incredible enabler of realising our potential, but at
51:29
the same time, it can be the reason why we shrink.
51:34
And it is up to the individual and it is up to how it's
51:38
governed. Both of these factors.
51:41
On the individual side, if you use it in a lazy way, I'm going
51:46
to let AI do my work for me, you will find yourself on the
51:50
shrinking path. But if you use the harder
51:54
working way to, to create a better version of yourself by
51:58
using AI, using it as a mirror to yourself, and yes, getting
52:02
rid of low value work that you're doing, but really
52:05
focusing on high value work, which will always be there as
52:09
long as humans exist. So, so in a in a way, I'm very
52:16
encouraged by what AI can do, but I also have to say that some
52:21
of its risks are inevitable job displacements and losses and how
52:25
people will adapt to that, how governance will deal with that.
52:28
Those are unknowns. So yeah, those give me both the
52:33
hope and the caution for the future.
52:36
And she said, so Speaking of AI, how should companies rethink
52:40
leadership development in a world that is shaped by by, you
52:45
know, the rapid changes and global increasing global
52:49
complexity? How?
52:52
How should companies retain leadership?
52:54
Yeah, I think a couple of mindsets become very important
52:57
in my view. 1 is, is the mindset of how AI will make us better as
53:03
an organisation, that you're really committed to walking that
53:07
path, not sort of overly protective trying to protect
53:11
your organisation, but really a more constructive, more creative
53:15
approach with what AI can do. Second one is a more holistic
53:20
systems thinking type of view that becomes very important.
53:24
So you should even ask the question of with AI, is my
53:28
primary product and service still going to be relevant?
53:32
Start there. Then question, is my business
53:36
model the right business model? Do I have the right people?
53:40
Do I have the right processes, everything?
53:43
How am I engaging with my stakeholders?
53:46
So think about beyond your company, think about the
53:49
ecosystem in which your company exists.
53:51
And with that perspective evaluates everything from the
53:56
beginning and then reinvent yourself.
53:59
So that's the second mindset, A systemic view where you question
54:04
every existential question about your company and be willing to
54:09
take the risks and the actions to evolve it so that it thrives
54:15
in an AI world. I know these are easier said
54:18
than done, but it's this kind of people, this kind of mindset
54:22
that will decide how people will leverage the AI capability that
54:29
we're being served. So if you were advising a young
54:33
professional starting their career today, what capabilities
54:38
would you tell them to build first?
54:40
You know, I'd say ability to reinvent themselves.
54:43
So I'd say in your life, you will probably get involved in
54:49
10-15 different things throughout your career.
54:53
They may be completely different areas, they may be related, but
54:56
and you will learn, you will prove yourself, you will be
55:00
successful and then you'll find that you're disrupted.
55:02
You're going to have to reinvent yourself again.
55:05
So I'd say that would be my number one advice to somebody
55:09
going into and they shouldn't be scared about that.
55:12
That's a wonderful muscle to build that allows them to lay
55:16
stronger roots that they can stand on their two feet in life
55:20
no matter what happens. So the other thing I'd say is it
55:23
seems, you know, all these things about work life balance
55:27
and, you know, we're so comfortable in many, many ways
55:31
in many parts of the societies, that's sometimes I, I think, you
55:35
know, the value of hard work and sacrifice is slowly being
55:39
forgotten. Like you have to sacrifice
55:41
sometimes from your personal life so that especially earlier
55:46
on in your career, you have to work extremely hard to do that.
55:50
And sometimes if you have to reinvent yourself, that comes
55:52
through and then never to fall into the pole of I'm just
55:57
working too hard. And, you know, what is this?
55:59
Where is this going to, Oh, I'm not, you know, don't complain
56:02
about that. So that would be another thing.
56:05
Yeah. OK, amazing, amazing take.
56:08
We're getting to the end of the podcast and there's something I
56:11
always love to say that any time a person shares the time with
56:15
you, they're sharing their life with you.
56:17
Of course, the SI unit for measuring life is time.
56:20
So gratitude is good attitude. And you know, for me, to you,
56:25
it's a very, very big thank you for sharing your life and your
56:27
time with us on the podcast today.
56:29
But before you leave, we have a tradition of asking the quick
56:34
fire round questions. That is five quick fire round
56:36
questions and of course putting you on the hot seed to ask you
56:40
two individuals, right. So the tradition is you
56:45
mentioned one person you are going to invite on the forecast
56:48
that you invite. You mentioned another person you
56:51
would like for me to invite on the forecast.
56:54
So would you give me two names, one person you invite yourself
56:58
or one person for me to invite? Why you think about those two
57:02
names? Maybe we should take you through
57:03
the quick fire round. So that is five questions.
57:07
Just give an answer that comes to your mind first.
57:10
So number one, what is 1 leadership principle you need by
57:14
every day? What is 1 leadership principle
57:16
you need by? Every you're yeah, you get your
57:20
mind onto the the contribution you are going to make in your
57:26
area of work that day. What are you going to make
57:29
better that day. So get your mind oriented to
57:32
that. Interesting so #2 is what is the
57:35
best career advice you have ever received?
57:38
Surround yourself with good people.
57:40
I think that is amazing advice #3 what is a book that changed
57:45
how you think about leadership? Very Young I Was Two books, 7
57:49
Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey and The
57:53
Effective Executive by Peter Drucker.
57:56
Oh wow, interesting. Peter Drucker that's that's an
58:01
OG of management science. Interested, I've read one of
58:05
those books that I think I'll I'll go grab the second one.
58:08
So #4 What is 1 habit that helps you stay mentally strong and
58:13
focused? Self reflection.
58:15
Okay, surgery by the surgery experts and #5 if you could
58:19
summarise your life philosophy in one sentence, what would it
58:23
be? If you could summarise your life
58:25
philosophy in one sentence, what would it be?
58:28
So it is keep serving in areas where I have the skills.
58:33
That's basically what it. Is you have the skills, Wow.
58:36
Interesting. I actually I actually wrote it
58:40
down somewhere. I don't know if I wrote it down
58:42
exactly as this. I took time to, if you want to
58:46
hold just for a second, I'm going to read to you from where
58:48
they are. It's the same thing.
58:49
I just want to be able to say it.
58:51
I want to see if I said it in a different.
58:53
So to see, here we go to serve with excellence in areas where
58:58
my skills can make the most meaningful impact.
59:01
I think that is brilliant. That is absolutely brilliant.
59:05
So I hope you wrote the names that you would love to see other
59:09
podcasts. Two names, one name you invite
59:13
yourself, one name I get invite. One name comes to mind, but
59:17
instead of naming them right here, I just want to be
59:20
respectful of their privacy and. OK.
59:24
Ask them and introduce you and let them come and then I'll find
59:29
another second name too, so I'll share those with you.
59:32
OK, amazing, amazing. Let's let's cover.
59:35
Let's cover the name and uncover the name after.
59:38
I think that is an amazing. All right, OK.
59:41
OK, So if the listeners could take only one idea from this
59:46
conversation we've had today about leadership and unlocking
59:50
human potential, what should that idea be?
59:53
Never doubt that your potential to do better and to be better is
1:00:00
greater than you think. Oh wow wow, never doubt that.
1:00:05
Your potential to do better and to be better the creator that
1:00:10
you think I think that that's actually true.
1:00:14
I was telling somebody yesterday that things are never as good as
1:00:17
we think and they're never as bad as we think right.
1:00:20
So we need to be open minded yeah.
1:00:22
And I think I think this speaks to it.
1:00:27
Wow, wow, wow. It's it's, it's a very, very big
1:00:31
thank you for me to you, your man, who is actually, when I say
1:00:37
lead many lives and of course aligns very much with my
1:00:39
philosophy and of course aligns with, you know, the number one
1:00:43
brand in the world for me that I love.
1:00:47
So many things to love and appreciate about you.
1:00:49
So it's thank you very, very much for your time today.
1:00:54
Of course, God bless you. And of course, to the guys, to
1:00:58
the people who listen to us, never forget, all is thank you
1:01:02
very much. All is good for something in
1:01:04
your lives. Conceive and strive to thrive
1:01:07
and of course, achieve. It's like, call me away next
1:01:10
time, guys. You know, keep keep winning and
1:01:13
of course, keep subscribing, keep sharing the word.
1:01:16
And of course, you know, keep helping us grow to that global
1:01:20
top 1%. All righty.
1:01:25
Good luck to you on that.