Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / How Chef Karim Lakhani Survived Idi Amin Expulsion and Built Award-Winning Culinary Career

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How Chef Karim Lakhani Survived Idi Amin Expulsion and Built Award-Winning Culinary Career · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Codispodi and
0:17
today's guest is Karim Lakhani. From refugee to renowned
0:22
hospitality executive. Karim's journey began when his
0:25
family came to Canada from Uganda, losing everything
0:30
overnight. At just 12 years old, he was
0:33
thrust into a new world. He began first as a dishwasher,
0:37
later worked alongside world famous chefs and became an
0:42
award-winning chef himself before moving into senior
0:46
leadership roles. He has guided major food and
0:49
beverage programs for well known hotel groups such as HEI and
0:53
Interstate. He has also served on food and
0:57
beverage advisory boards for brands like Marriott and
1:00
Intercontinental. Today, he is the Executive Vice
1:04
President of Food and Beverage and Procurement at Northwood
1:07
Hospitality, A boutique hotel management company focused on
1:12
elevating guest experiences through a people first culture.
1:17
They provide full service operations in areas like sales
1:20
and marketing, design, accounting, revenue management
1:24
and more. And we're going to hear about
1:26
his work surrounding AI and predictive purchasing.
1:31
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2:17
All right, back to our guest today, the Executive Vice
2:19
President of Food and Beverage and Procurement of Northwood
2:23
Hospitality. Karim, thanks for making the
2:25
time to Share your story. Today, Anthony, thank you very
2:28
much. It's a pleasure to be on with
2:31
you today. All right, so Karim, first I
2:34
would like to hear about your family's experience coming to
2:39
Canada as refugees from Uganda. What do you remember?
2:44
What was it like to suddenly lose everything that you would
2:47
know? Well, you know, it started in
2:51
1972 in Uganda. The dictator Idi Amin ordered
2:57
nearly all Ugandan nations to leave the country within 90
3:01
days. Primarily what began in terror
3:05
and loss for our families, you know, our citizenship were
3:10
stripped livelihoods and the familiarity of home.
3:15
We moved from chaos, disoriented to transit camps and long,
3:22
exhausting flights to Canada and other other families were, you
3:28
know, thrown in other countries. You know, my extended family of
3:33
my mom, my uncles, they were in Geneva, in Switzerland or in
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France. We ended up in Canada and back
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home in Uganda. We were a close knit family.
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We all lived close in one small town.
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So it was very difficult at the age of 12 to be thrown apart
3:54
like that and then you know, just losing your friends
3:58
overnight. The difficult transitions
4:01
eventually led to safety and a slow process of rebuilding our
4:06
lives in Canada. We ended up in China,
4:09
Saskatchewan with a great community support locally
4:15
enabling us to start with new beginnings from almost nothing.
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You know, we temporarily stayed in a hotel while searching for
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affordable housing. So and you know, learning.
4:31
I did speak English, but understanding the Canadian
4:35
culture and their ways was a challenge.
4:40
But you know you persevere when you're young.
4:43
So your parents coming here, how did they find work for the first
4:47
time? So my mother, you know her
4:50
background, she was very well educated, involved in the family
4:54
business, bakeries, restaurants, dairy operations.
4:59
She was in fashion in Uganda. She also studied in England and
5:05
overnight, you know, she had to find a way to support the
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family. So with that said, with
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everything left behind, she started as a dishwasher at the
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hotel that we were put up as in Regina as refugees.
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So that's how she got her first start in, you know, because the
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big thing was, you know, the, the, the terminology that was
5:34
always used is you don't have Canadian experience.
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So it was always difficult, no matter how well educated you
5:41
were, to get a professional job. Was there some legitimacy to
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that comment, or was that a veiled way of saying you're not
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one of us? I think initially, yes, you're
5:55
not one of us. There was discrimination by all
5:58
means. And, you know, not to belabor
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the point, but, you know, color of skin, we spoke English very
6:06
well. We were raised, you know, under
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the British colony. So English was our language in
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school and at home. So and, you know, professionally
6:17
trained and ran businesses. What was the biggest thing to
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get used to in terms of that Canadian culture?
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You say you spoke English, but getting used to the culture,
6:29
there was something else. Yes.
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So, you know, in Uganda, you, we didn't have snow, we didn't play
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hockey, we didn't skate. We landed in Regina, SK in
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November of 1972. And, you know, just the biggest
6:49
challenge was connecting with your, you know, classmates or
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the neighbors or you're working, you know, where my mom used to
6:59
work. So it was the biggest challenge.
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It was, you know, and I'll give you a, a quick example of if we
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were, you know, at the, at the restaurant in the hotel, you
7:11
know, they would offer a cereal and then they would ask us,
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well, you know, do you have, did you have cornflakes in Africa?
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And you know, those little things that we have to get used
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to that. Yes, we were eating cornflakes.
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We had that availability. So it was just different, I
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think in 1972 even for the Canadians.
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But they were very generous. I mean there were about 80,000
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people that were, you know, thrown out of Uganda and the
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Canadians took on 7000 of us. So it was a big change in those
7:48
days for them. Yeah, I'm trying to put myself
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in your shoes as a 12 year old. That's how old you were right at
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the time. Yes.
7:57
Yeah. And did you, was there any sort
8:00
of warning that hey, this transition was going to happen
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or did it take place very suddenly?
8:07
Well, for us it was very sudden. We only had 90 days to basically
8:13
leave everything behind. And you know, we, we had to find
8:19
a sponsor in Canada. So my mom's family worked
8:24
diligently through a church to get a sponsor.
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And then we found a sponsoring Regina, SK.
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And then we had to go to the Canadian embassy, get medical,
8:35
get checked out, get our paperwork.
8:38
And then we were told that, you know, we would have a flight on
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a certain date. And, you know, people that were
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exiting Uganda, it was very difficult to leave.
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They didn't make it easy. You went through where there was
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a lot of looting going on during the time that there was 90 days
9:03
going to school. You'd see dead bodies floating
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in the river, blood on the streets.
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It was, it was a difficult time, but you know, we persevered.
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And even when we were headed to the airport, you know, we were
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escorted by the Canadian government in a bus, but we were
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still stopped by checkpoints because they wanted to take
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whatever we had. If we had jewellery or any cash
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or whatever it was, it was basically taken away and you
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know, women were strip searched and some were raped.
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So it was a difficult time for a 12 year old to see that it was
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difficult. Can you put into words how that
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shaped you going forward in your life?
10:00
You know it. You you grew up fast.
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You became an adult overnight. Unfortunately, my father passed
10:11
away in Uganda. I was seven years old.
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But we had a great family infrastructure.
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But when we were thrown apart and it was, and my sister at the
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time was studying in England, so she fortunately was out of the
10:27
country. So it was just my mom and I and
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I and it was more, you know, becoming so-called man of the
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house. Even though my mom, she was a
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very strong woman, well educated, well entrenched in the
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community, supporting people that needed help.
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You know, education was a big part of our background.
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And so she, you know, she raised us as a single mom.
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So but you had to grow up pretty fast.
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And you know that childhood of going and playing after school
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and all that, that was difficult to do.
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So how did your earliest experiences in the hospitality
11:17
industry there in Canada begin? So it was ironic, the job that
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my mom took on, basically I took on at the age of 13 a few months
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later, because my mom was required to go for surgery in a
11:31
hospital. And then, you know, she had to
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come home. And while before going to the
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hospital, she asked the chef that she was working with if it
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would be OK that her son would come and help as the dishwasher
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to take over while she was going through her surgery and healing
11:57
process. So the chef was very kind and
12:00
allowed me to join his team at the age of 13.
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At that point I had no idea what the legal age of working was in
12:09
Canada, but he was very kind. So that's how I started while
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going to grade school working part time.
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And did you just continue as you were going through grade school
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and high school working in same field?
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Yes. So, you know, it's in the
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hospitality industry, especially in the restaurant business,
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extra pair of hands come in handy all the time and are
12:35
needed. So I started off as a dishwasher
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and the chef would need somebody on the salad station.
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So he would train me on the salad station.
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And so I kind of worked all the way through.
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And then we after a year, we moved to a small little town on
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the eastern part part of Canada, just about 5 hours West of
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Toronto, a small little town called Tillsonburg, Big tobacco
13:02
country. And I started continuing my
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grade school and then moved on to high school.
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So I took on jobs in like different places, Kentucky Fried
13:16
Chicken, Northwest restaurant, motel restaurant, just helping
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the the family financially, whatever I could do.
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And then at some point you entered a special Canadian
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apprenticeship program that really helped to shape your
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culinary career. Can you tell us about that, how
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it came about, what you did? Yeah.
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So I was working for a catering company while I was going to
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high school with a very good chef who is a mentor.
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And primarily while, you know, I was finishing high school, I
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was, you know, always had aspirations to either become a
13:56
pilot or a photographer. Unfortunately, we couldn't
14:01
afford, you know, college education or, you know,
14:07
equipment for photography. But my mom was very adamant that
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I should be going to college and I didn't want to put financial
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constraints on her. So the chef recommended, you
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know, why don't I go for an apprenticeship in Toronto at
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George Brown College. So I had no idea what that was.
14:27
And. So I had no idea what an
14:29
apprenticeship. Was I had no idea what
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apprenticeship was, but he felt that I had the skills in
14:37
culinary to be able to take on, you know, this as a career.
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So the way it works in Canada is you have to 1st apply for a job
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under a master chef. Once you're accepted and you
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read, then you have to register with the Ontario government for
14:56
the apprenticeship branch for colleges training and then get
15:03
accepted in George Brown College.
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You know, it was the culinary art school in Toronto with an
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employment agreement. So once you got the employment
15:15
agreement, you got accepted. And so then you had to your
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apprenticeship was a three-year program in an accredited
15:23
college. You got your BA and you began
15:27
working. So you had to work out of the
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three three years every year, eight months under a MasterChef
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practically and then theory was four months.
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So while you worked you got paid and while you went to school you
15:45
were paid unemployment. And so I was fortunate enough to
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get my apprenticeship completed in two years rather than three
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years because of my past background.
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Because you had already had some of this work experience that
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they required. Correct.
16:01
Yeah. And how was it that you got to
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work under a master's chef? How did that connection happen?
16:07
You know, that's a good question.
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A friend of the family was working at the Windsor Arms
16:13
Hotel as an accountant, and he was also a Ugandan refugee.
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And so my mom reached out to him and said, you know, my son is
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coming to Toronto. He's looking to work in a hotel.
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Is there a possibility that you could connect him?
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Or if you have any connections with the chef that he could come
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and interview? So that's how I, you know,
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connections and making sure that you know, you understand what is
16:44
required. And he opened the door and to
16:50
this day, very grateful for that.
16:54
That made a big difference in the trajectory of your life.
16:57
Absolutely, yeah. And so while you were taking
17:02
classes, you're collecting unemployment, you're not getting
17:07
paid, but are you having to pay for the college education itself
17:10
or that's something that the government picks up the tab on?
17:13
The government picked up the tab on that.
17:15
OK. So I didn't have a fifty $60,000
17:19
yearly tuition, unlike today if you're going to CIA in North
17:24
America. And So what happens after
17:29
graduation? What's your next stop?
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So after graduation, so I, you know, you, you're an apprentice
17:36
and then they offer you a position at the hotel that
17:40
you're at as a chef departee, which is the next level.
17:44
You know, the, the, the culinary arts is very much like a
17:47
military brigade. So there are all these
17:50
hierarchies that you get offered that you have to work through.
17:55
So you become a chef departee, sous chef and then a executive
18:01
sue, and then a chef. So the first step was you, you
18:05
know, you're offered a chef departee position.
18:08
I left that hotel and joined the King Edward Hotel in Toronto,
18:14
which had just newly opened with a $40 million renovation.
18:19
And so that's where I again started working as a chef
18:23
departee and the chef that I left at the Windsor Arms, trying
18:27
to discourage me not to leave, that this is a new hotel.
18:31
It's not going to be a good venture.
18:33
But you know, I stuck to my guns and I think I made the right
18:38
decision. Why?
18:39
Why do you think? It opened a lot of doors for me.
18:44
The King Edward in Toronto at the time was owned by Trust
18:48
House Forte, which had over 400 hotels worldwide.
18:54
And so it opened the doors to the next step of me trying to
18:59
get a European experience. So you know, while I was at the
19:04
King Edward, we had a a chef come in and do an orientation
19:10
and then cooking experiences and tastings for guests.
19:16
So I approached him. He was from the Hotel de Berg in
19:20
Geneva, and I asked him, you know, if it would be possible
19:24
for me to come and do some training in Geneva, Switzerland.
19:29
He didn't speak English. I spoke limited French because
19:34
it was more a Canadian French rather than the French French.
19:39
So Long story short, about 12 months later I got a a a letter
19:47
that said that they had accepted me to come and do a STAJ in
19:50
Geneva, Switzerland for 18 months.
19:53
Staj what is that? That's the next stage.
19:56
It's STAJ means stage to the next level from a chef departee.
20:03
So why is it sorry? Go ahead.
20:05
You do different stages in the kitchen.
20:08
So why was it important for you specifically to get European
20:12
experience? You know that that's, that's a
20:16
very valid question. So Canada had a lot of European
20:21
chefs. So the first, you know, we had a
20:25
lot of French chefs that would find it easy to come to Canada
20:29
to work in Montreal and then from Montreal because they spoke
20:33
French. And then they would be able to
20:35
come to to Toronto or other parts of the country once they
20:40
learned English and working under those European chefs, I
20:45
really admired them and talk to them all the time about trying
20:49
to get, you know, what would be the next step in my career.
20:53
So it would be just ideal for me to get the European experience.
20:57
And at that point, European experience was a very, very
21:01
valuable because that opened up a lot of doors from just your
21:06
background and understanding of the true essence and what true
21:11
essence of cuisine and the basics are all about.
21:15
So you've had the opportunity, Corinne, to work with a lot of
21:17
culinary legends along the way. Aside from that master Chef that
21:22
we just talked about really kind of opened the door to that
21:26
apprenticeship program for you. Who's the most memorable one
21:30
that you were able to work with, and what was the most
21:33
significant lesson that you learned in that?
21:37
Yeah. So you know, I was fortunate
21:40
when I became the chef of the Watergate Hotel.
21:45
I had the opportunity to work under with Jean Louis Paladin.
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Jean Louis Paladin was a one star Michelin chef.
21:53
He had his own restaurant in the basement of the hotel and was
21:57
doing very well. What I learned from him was, you
22:01
know, he was how to keep an open mind and being creative.
22:05
The one challenge that I had in Canada was that, you know, the
22:11
Canadian chefs were very conservative thinking.
22:14
I found that having that influence with the US openness,
22:19
it gave you a lot of latitude of, you know, incorporating
22:23
different cuisines together and being a little bit more creative
22:27
rather than being more standard, the basic fundamentals.
22:32
So Jean Louis Paladin, you know, he set the standard of technique
22:36
and creativity. He was a champion in resources,
22:41
rigorous sourcing of local products, really looking at how
22:48
we could use American products, but working with farmers, things
22:53
like that. And then the last thing that he
22:55
was very good at was bringing chefs together, a brotherhood of
23:00
chefs. And you know, in the old days,
23:02
it was all, everybody kept their recipes to themselves, all that.
23:06
But in Washington, DC, we had a great brotherhood of chefs.
23:09
And he even helped me when I opened my first restaurant in in
23:15
at the Watergate, you know, and I had gone to train in Italy.
23:21
I had the opportunity to train in northern Italy in Bergamont
23:25
to really fine tune my skills on Italian cooking, you know, spent
23:29
a month just learning how to do risotto in Bergamont.
23:35
And that was all because of the Journal manager of the
23:38
Watergate. But at the same time, Jean Louis
23:41
was also very much about, let me bring, you know, some of the key
23:45
chefs from the city to critique what you feel is the right thing
23:50
for this new opening. So that was the toughest
23:54
challenge for me, to have other much more well versed European
24:00
chefs, Italian chefs, French chefs coming to taste my food
24:04
prior to opening the restaurant. And, you know, it opened my
24:07
eyes. Yes, I was absolutely nervous,
24:12
but it made me grow substantially of #1 developing a
24:18
relationship, but also keeping an open mind, taking feedback
24:25
and not becoming, you know, defensive on that side.
24:28
So that was key. And then Michelle Richard was
24:31
another chef that I worked with who also was instrumental.
24:36
He was very good as far as not only technique, but his
24:41
background was a pastry chef. So everything with him was an
24:45
exact science. So, you know, he was using
24:49
French techniques with American flavors and making food and
24:54
dining more fun rather than, you know, just uptight, a fine
25:00
dining sort of thing. So he made it really open up.
25:03
And then the last one was Alan Ducasse.
25:05
I had the opportunity to work with Alan Ducasse, who, you
25:09
know, at the time was the only chef in the world with three
25:14
Michelin stars simultaneously at 3 restaurants in the globe.
25:20
But you know, he was rigorous about standards, quality French
25:25
techniques, looking at mindful cooking practices, so
25:30
emphasizing on sustainability in those days and using natural
25:36
flavors and ingredients to enhance.
25:39
So if we were cooking vegetables, we wouldn't be
25:42
cooking them in just water. We would have vegetable broth to
25:47
enhance the flavors. And that really stood out on a
25:51
dish, but it was a very disciplined way and a, a, you
25:55
know, a culture that we didn't have in Canada.
25:58
What do you mean by mindful cooking practices?
26:02
Well, so it's, it's more about making sure that you respect the
26:06
ingredients, OK, You don't overpower them with butter, with
26:11
sauces, bring the natural elements and flavors out of
26:15
those with enhanced vegetable stock or proper cooking methods,
26:21
things like that, balances of, you know, modern with
26:25
environmental responsibility. And you talked about, you know,
26:30
sort of a farm to table purchasing locally at, you know,
26:34
the the Watergate there and this was back in the early 90s.
26:38
And you talked about sustainable practices with the the third
26:42
chef that you worked with. And again, I'm going to guess
26:45
this timing is probably, you know, early, mid, late 90s, so
26:49
kind of before a lot of this stuff was really in vogue.
26:53
Absolutely, yes. We, you know, we worked and, and
26:57
this was just because of the chefs.
26:59
They were the ones that started all that.
27:01
So we would look at sustainable fishing, sustainable vegetables,
27:08
looking at how ingredients were grown and we would go to the
27:11
farms, we would, you know, go to the butcher shops and look at
27:16
how animals were treated, all those sorts of things.
27:20
So we, I, I guess you could say we were ahead of our times, so
27:24
to speak, But you know, we would be on Capitol Hill talking about
27:28
sustainable fishing, things like that as a, as a chef's
27:31
community. Interesting.
27:34
What was the reception to that on Capitol Hill at the time?
27:38
Very positive. You know, they, they, you know,
27:41
we were close to the waters, you know, of the Chesapeake.
27:49
So it was a good influence locally to talk about, you know,
27:55
not overfishing and, you know, having less farming, but all
28:01
natural and, and it was very positive to help the environment
28:06
but also help the the fisherman for the longevity of their
28:10
careers. You know something else you
28:12
talked about regarding your time there at the Watergate, and this
28:17
is the Watergate, right? The one that everybody knows in
28:20
DC, the Nixon fame. Yeah.
28:22
So one of the things you talked about is, you know, having sort
28:26
of these renowned international chefs come in and taste your
28:30
food. It's a little nerve racking, but
28:32
you learn to be very receptive and not defensive to their
28:37
feedback, which I have to imagine allowed you to grow in
28:42
ways that you wouldn't have otherwise.
28:44
So my question for you, Karim, is, was that something that came
28:48
naturally to you or was that a skill that you really needed to
28:52
be coached on or learn to acquire that ability to take
28:57
that constructive feedback? I you know, it was a
29:01
combination. So when you are going through
29:05
your training in school as a chef, you know, it's very much
29:10
like a military. You respect your elders.
29:14
You know, even in our family, we were raised with respecting your
29:17
elders and in school you respected the chefs you
29:22
respected. You know what you were learning.
29:26
But then in practical, even the chefs that you worked with, you
29:32
learned from them. So that was already bred into
29:36
you when you were, you know, going through your training
29:40
phase and working with all these chefs.
29:41
There was, you know, even though it was a tough environment,
29:45
there was, you know, and I don't know if you've read kitchen
29:49
confidentials, but it was not an easy, you know, with Anthony
29:54
Bourdain, the kitchen is not an easy place to work.
29:58
There is a a lot of yelling, screaming, fire knives.
30:04
But, you know, it was just like being in the Army.
30:07
That's how you came in line. But so I learned that it was
30:11
important to learn from the people that wanted to impart
30:16
their knowledge and embrace it. And, you know, knowledge is
30:21
power. And I felt that I had to do
30:24
that. Now.
30:25
I was an executive chef. They were all executive chefs.
30:28
They were on a higher level than I was.
30:30
But I was ready to listen and, you know, make it better for
30:37
myself and my team. So what eventually prompted you
30:42
to begin the transition from being a chef to moving into the
30:45
corporate side of hospitality? So while I was, you know, with
30:50
Capstar Hotels and Resorts and working with Michelle Richard, I
30:54
had, you know, I was working for Michelle in Baltimore, at
30:58
Citronelle in Baltimore. And the mother, the mother
31:03
company was Capstar Hotels and Resorts.
31:05
And Michelle at that time had five restaurants in Capstar
31:10
Hotels. The biggest challenge with
31:12
Michelle was he was very creative, very good as far as
31:17
the food that he was putting out.
31:19
It was the business side that he lacked.
31:22
So and I had that. So I had the creativity, but at
31:27
the same time, I could manage one of his restaurants and show
31:32
profitable operation. So the president of the company
31:38
came to me and said, look, we need you to be more involved in
31:42
Michelle's operations. So we need you to look at his
31:48
operations by going to San Francisco, going to LA, going to
31:52
Santa Barbara, Philadelphia. And at the same time, we want
31:56
you to be back on Friday, Saturday to be in the restaurant
32:00
because the customer, you know, I was very engaged with the
32:03
customer. So I started to learn how to be
32:07
involved in the operations of Michelle's other and not only on
32:11
the culinary side, but the front of the house.
32:13
So eventually we sold one of the hotels and the president of the
32:17
company came to me and said, look, I need you to go to San
32:20
Francisco to take on Michelle's restaurant in San Francisco.
32:25
I said, well, we already have a chef there.
32:27
He says no, no, no, I want you to step out of your whites and
32:31
put on a, a suit and a tie and I run the front of the house.
32:37
And I said, but I don't know, you know, I've never done that
32:41
before. He said you're fine, You have,
32:44
I've seen you in action. You engage very well with guests
32:49
and you need to make sure that the operation is running well.
32:54
You will have a maitre-d' underneath you, but you need to
32:58
collaborate between the front and the back of the house.
33:00
So that was my first step from going from the back of the house
33:05
to the front of the house and it was just basically being pushed
33:09
out. But even before that, they were
33:11
having you go to these locations and kind of rain things in.
33:15
From a business perspective, where did you first get that
33:18
business side experience of the restaurant industry?
33:22
So when you go to school, you know, you get the basic
33:25
fundamentals of food cost, labor cost, beverage cost, all those
33:28
sorts of things. And then when I, you know, I
33:33
worked prior to the Watergate, I was also the chef.
33:37
That was my first gig in Philadelphia at the age of 28 to
33:42
become the executive chef of the Palace Hotel, which was another
33:46
trust house Forte Hotel as well. And so that's where I really
33:51
hone my skills because now this was my business.
33:56
I was running it as my business. Even though it was a hotel, I
34:01
was incentivized with the profitability, looking at the
34:04
bottom line, the top line, all those sorts of things.
34:07
So I had a very good general manager who taught me the skills
34:11
of looking at food and beverage profitability at the same time,
34:17
not giving up on quality or whatever that is.
34:20
And then I even honed my skills more at the Watergate Hotel in
34:25
Washington, DC. So that's where I got it before
34:27
I went on to Capstar Hotels and Michelle Richard.
34:31
And so as you began that transition from back of house to
34:34
front of house for the first time where you're kind of like,
34:36
I don't know, I think I'm going to be a fish out of water.
34:38
What was the biggest thing that surprised you to the those two
34:42
sides of the House? Well, the first thing was
34:45
Michelle had to embrace that. You know, you have the corporate
34:49
that you know, the corporate president, you know, from the
34:52
hotel and the investment side. And Michelle had a great
34:56
relationship with the corporation.
34:59
And so Michelle and I had a good relationship.
35:03
And you know, he saw what I had shown from a financial
35:07
standpoint. But at the same time, you know,
35:10
he was a little skeptical about my skills on the front of the
35:13
house. But he gave me an opportunity
35:16
and you know, I was going in you.
35:21
The good thing was that I had been working for Michelle
35:24
already for a couple of years, so that made it easy while I was
35:29
transitioning and visiting the properties that I had a
35:33
relationship with the chef, with the other GMs of the operation.
35:39
So that made it easy to transition.
35:42
The big thing was, you know, connecting with the Maitre-d',
35:47
learning the wine side of the business, the beverage side of
35:50
the business. So that was the more that was
35:52
the big hurdle for me. But the good thing was that when
35:55
I was with Jean Louis at the Watergate, you know, he had a
35:59
great wine cellar. And I learned a lot from him and
36:03
his team of, you know, wine and pairing food with wine, things
36:09
like that. And so was that sort of the most
36:12
challenging element was learning how to pair the wines with the
36:16
food, or was it just like a completely different operational
36:19
experience because you're buying it differently, you're serving
36:23
it differently than you would food?
36:26
Well, you know, I was involved in the entire operation at
36:31
Citronelle in Baltimore. So it was it was not something
36:36
totally new. So you know it in it.
36:40
Yeah. You, you started doing wine
36:43
inventory, understanding, you know, all the different wines,
36:48
the vintages, where they're coming from, and then making
36:51
sure the costs are right and all that.
36:53
So you learn from that part. Unlike food, you have much more
36:57
involved in the, in the wine and beverage side.
37:00
And you know, in in our business, you make a better
37:03
profit in food, in beverage than in food.
37:06
So you really needed to understand that and make sure
37:10
that the pricing was correct, the markups were correct, the
37:16
pores were correct. Pilfridge you know, things like
37:21
that that you have to keep an eye on, on the front of the
37:22
house as well. So how did the opportunity at
37:26
Northwood Hospitality first come about?
37:29
So when I left HEI Hotels and Resorts, I started my own
37:34
consulting business and at that point I had an opportunity where
37:41
ATI gave me a good start. They were my first client in
37:46
Minneapolis, opened a restaurant for ATI in the in the Westin in
37:54
Minneapolis called The Bank and I was involved in that prior to
37:59
leaving. So that made it easy.
38:02
And then I started to reach out to different people that I knew.
38:07
And my previous president from Capstar, who threw me into the
38:12
front of the house, was the president of Northwood
38:16
Hospitality. And he reached out to me and
38:18
said, hey, we would love to have your services.
38:22
We're looking to, you know, buy one hotel in Houston.
38:26
I can't bring you on full time, but it would be great that if
38:30
you could help us with the concept, look at the operation,
38:34
look at the kitchen, look at the front of the house and give us
38:38
your insight and then ongoing consulting services.
38:42
So I did that with the Houston hotel for Northwood.
38:47
And then they bought another hotel in Boston, the same deal,
38:51
but that was a total renovation, changing it from the Radisson to
38:56
a Revere lifestyle hotel. It was called the Revere.
39:01
And we created an high energy bar, dining, all those sorts of
39:05
things. And so that was the, those were
39:09
the two hotels. And at the same time I was, my
39:12
business was also taking me to to China and Egypt and Africa
39:18
for consulting as well. So I was juggling North Northern
39:23
North America and also abroad. And then eventually Northwood
39:29
decided to buy a portfolio of hotels.
39:32
And they said, OK, we feel that we want to start our own
39:36
platform, the hospitality platform.
39:39
And so we're gonna hire, you know, food and beverage, sales,
39:43
finance, all that. And we'd love for you to join.
39:46
And I said the only reason I'll join is, you know, when I was
39:50
with Interstate Hotels and Resorts, I was overseeing 400
39:53
hotels. But it was not fun for me.
39:57
It was not creative. And I wanted something smaller.
40:00
And, you know, I love the brands, but I wanted more
40:03
boutique luxury style. And Northwood was, you know,
40:08
right up my wheelhouse there. OK.
40:11
And so did you join when you join them full time?
40:14
Was it in the current role that you have now?
40:17
So I, I started off as AVP of food and beverage and
40:23
procurement and then just moved on to Executive Vice President.
40:27
Over the years. At that point, we know we
40:30
purchased the the Palace Hotel in New York City, 900 rooms, you
40:37
know, $140 million renovation, putting in seven food and
40:41
beverage outlets. We, we picked up the London West
40:45
Hollywood, we picked up Chica Lodge.
40:47
So we started to, you know, catapult to a, a, a real own
40:53
management company. And so how does Northwoods
40:56
approach to business and people make it special, set it apart
41:01
from other groups? Well, the the thing with
41:04
Northwood, you know it, it is a subsidiary.
41:09
So Northwood Investors is the mothership and Northwood
41:13
Hospitality is a subsidiary of Northwood Investors.
41:18
You know, we primarily operate in boutique operational model
41:26
and high touch collaborative management style.
41:29
We also have some branded hotels like the Conrad in Nashville,
41:35
the Luxury Collection in Valentine and then we have some
41:39
select service, but primarily they started with boutique but
41:44
yet independent hotels. The New York Palace was not
41:49
boutique, but it was an independent iconic hotel.
41:53
So the, the, the important thing about Northwood is that it's a
41:58
direct ownership and management of assets, allowing for giving
42:03
our our teams hands on and flexible approach to operating
42:09
at the same time creating value for the investors.
42:13
You know, we are proven experience across multiple
42:17
hospitality segments. You know, as I said, resorts,
42:21
select service, boutique and branded hotels.
42:26
So you know, and we look at everything.
42:29
So even from the Home Office, we are very much involved in the
42:36
operation and helping support the operation.
42:40
We give them a lot of autonomy. You know, at the same time they
42:45
have to, you know, bounce things off of us.
42:47
But we're not bureaucratic. We don't want to put obstacles
42:51
in the way. So from a traditional hotel
42:54
management company, we're different that.
42:56
Way how many properties in the portfolio currently?
43:01
We're at 9:00 at the present time +2 restaurants that are
43:05
separate. All our hotels and resorts have
43:08
restaurants, but primarily at one point we were like 15
43:14
hotels. So we buy and sell, but we keep
43:17
our hotels for for a while. OK.
43:21
And so in your current role, Karim, as Executive VP of Food
43:25
and Beverage, how do you approach integrating technology
43:29
like AI and predictive purchasing into your procurement
43:35
practices? So couple of things, you know,
43:40
we do use AI in predictable predictive analytics of demand
43:48
and forecasting for buying. You know, I work with the GPO on
43:55
purchasing on that side of the business and we are looking at
44:01
first we have contracted pricing.
44:04
So that gives us a leg up. The, the other side of that is
44:09
what, you know, with everything that's going on with inflation,
44:12
with tariffs, things like that, we really need to have the
44:18
finger on the pulse on a weekly basis.
44:22
You know, I, I will have a vendor that I may, you know, I
44:26
have a contract with and all of a sudden the contract is coming
44:29
up and they're prior to the contract, you know, coming to
44:33
end, you know, they're talking about, you know, raising prices
44:37
by 5% because of tariffs. So, you know, we have to look at
44:41
what our other alternatives are and in predictive purchasing,
44:45
you have to be ahead of the curve.
44:47
Look at what are the other providers out there that can
44:51
give you best pricing with great service and with delivery at the
45:00
same time making sure that they can support the hotels across
45:05
the country. You know, it's, it's important
45:08
that we are also looking at predictive pricing not only from
45:14
the, the the manufacturer, but also from what's going on from
45:21
the menu standpoint. So you know, as prices keep
45:25
going up, labor kids keeps going up, you know, we have to look at
45:30
analytics. And so Northwood has also just
45:36
recently launched ABI system where I can go in and look at
45:43
what the cost of different product is and what it cost me
45:48
to put it on the menu based on, you know, each part of the
45:52
country has different labor cost, delivery costs are
45:56
different. So I have to use my, you know,
46:00
business intelligence systems to look at some history, but at the
46:05
same time look at my contracts and make sure with my GPO, my
46:10
global purchasing partnership that I'm getting the best
46:14
pricing. So we look at commodity pricing.
46:17
If you look at coffee, coffee has gone through, you know, up
46:21
by 30%. But at the same time you'll have
46:24
a partner that is willing to stay true and kind of not, not
46:29
pass on all the tariff costs through and they're going to
46:34
take a hit. We're going to take a little bit
46:36
of hit. We have to make immediate
46:38
changes in our pricing on the menus.
46:42
You know, when you're starting to pay $30.00 for a dishwasher
46:46
in California and I can only charge so much from, you know,
46:52
on the menu. I have to go back to my, you
46:56
know, my distribution, my GPO to see what things that we can
47:00
change not from a quality standpoint, but get better
47:05
pricing on product that can help bring some of the food costs
47:08
down and you know, help, you know it with the labor that we
47:13
have to pay these days. How dynamic are those pricing
47:17
fluctuations? Is it, oh, I'm planning for a
47:19
month out or is it like you get a, an alert on your dashboard
47:23
that's like, oh, we got a change of price today.
47:27
You can. You can get an alert on a daily
47:31
basis if you look at commodity pricing, look at beef prices,
47:36
how they have escalated with all the diseases that were hit with
47:41
the cows. And so our pricing kept going
47:46
up. And so give you a quick example,
47:49
one of our hotel restaurants in Florida, we all you know, we saw
47:56
that our food cost kept inching up, inching up, inching up and
47:59
our profitability, you know, going down.
48:02
So I have to go down work with the, the, the distributor who
48:08
processed our steaks and our meats, you know, and chicken,
48:13
all that and start to talk about, OK, you know, what can
48:18
you do for me? We have been a great partner.
48:22
Can you #1 give me national pricing and I will commit to
48:27
certain amounts of volume at the same time, I'll bring in the
48:32
other hotel that's just across the road so we can negotiate.
48:35
And it it's better for you on transportation cost, production
48:39
cost, things like that. And then what are the other cuts
48:44
that we could implement that are, you know, great quality but
48:51
don't need to be? So for example, take a filet.
48:54
Filet is a very tender piece of beef, right?
48:58
And you don't always need to serve prime filet.
49:02
You can have a, a, a, an aged or you could have a Choice plus and
49:09
at the same time give guest a good value.
49:13
Same thing with the hamburger meat.
49:14
What, what can we do there? So you're looking at produce
49:18
going up and down when labor in this country is getting more
49:22
expensive. So that is ongoing on a weekly
49:26
basis. Those prices change.
49:28
Krim, I want to shift gears in our conversation.
49:30
We've been talking a lot about the professional side, but I
49:32
want to talk about sort of you as a person a bit more.
49:36
And I know part of that revolves around the work that you do to
49:41
help improve other people's lives.
49:44
I'd be curious to hear more about the work that you've done
49:47
in Baltimore with both young people and single abused
49:53
mothers. Yeah, that was, you know, I, I
49:57
kind of fell into that. When you get recognized as a
50:01
chef, the community reaches out. And to me, the first time I was
50:08
approached, I was a little bit skeptical of what was involved.
50:13
And it it was for a home of boys that had gotten into trouble and
50:24
were it, you know, in a challenging situation where they
50:32
didn't have a skill. They were teenage boys.
50:36
And so I, you know, they came to me and approached me and said,
50:40
would you be willing to help these kids with, you know,
50:46
learning a skill? So I said, OK, let me come and
50:50
see this, the space, what's involved, all those sorts of
50:53
things. So I looked at the space.
50:56
I looked at, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the juvenile kids
51:01
that were in that detention center and you know, it, it was
51:08
something that opened my, my eyes that there's a different
51:12
world than just the marble pillars and the fine dining that
51:17
I have grown up in, in and I lived in.
51:20
But I came from that background. I did I, I was not a juvenile,
51:25
the liquid, but I came from, you know, challenged where, you
51:30
know, my family could had hard time putting a meal on the
51:33
table, right. And so I said, this is an
51:37
opportunity for me to give back. So I started with a 10 week
51:42
program where I would go every week and work with these kids.
51:49
And the attitudes were totally negative.
51:51
You know, who are you? What are you going to show us?
51:54
And here I am coming in to these juvenile kids, young kids and
52:00
showing them how to use a knife. And a knife is a dangerous
52:03
weapon. So initially I was very
52:06
skeptical. And so they would watch and the,
52:11
you know, while I, you know, you, you have to find couple of
52:14
kids that want to learn and then the other ones that want to sit,
52:18
stand on the side and just watch.
52:20
And so as I started to work with the other kids and showed them
52:25
knife skills, all of a sudden picked it, piqued their interest
52:31
of what was I doing and could I show them how to do that.
52:35
So by the end of the the 10 weeks I had all the kids, you
52:41
know, just willing to learn, embraced what I was teaching
52:46
them. And initially discipline was a
52:48
problem, all those sorts of things.
52:51
But the way I could speak to them was through my skill and
52:55
on. Then we had a graduation.
52:58
So for the graduation, we brought them to the rooftop of
53:04
the Citronelle restaurant in Baltimore.
53:06
Now, these kids had never been in a hotel.
53:10
And they came in and they walked into the hotel.
53:14
They were all dressed up, ties, suits, the whole 9 yards, truly
53:19
professional. And we cooked lunch for them.
53:22
And then couple of the kids loved what was happening that
53:28
they applied for a job and we hired them.
53:31
So it was very fulfilling for me to do that.
53:35
The other part was, you know, I had the opportunity in Baltimore
53:39
where these abused women, I would go into their homes and
53:45
abuse women's homes and teach them how to cook healthy foods
53:50
for their for their children. So that was another part that
53:55
was very fulfilling for me at the same time.
53:58
So I've done that a few times. And then I had an opportunity to
54:02
give back in Africa as well with the Maasai in Kenya.
54:05
So that was another great opportunity.
54:09
The Maasai in Kenya where working with them on sustainable
54:14
cooking, they had North American clientele and how to cook North
54:18
American food with local ingredients and and that was
54:23
another eye opener, a great learning experience.
54:26
So, you know, hospitality really opens up a lot of borders for
54:31
you and Sky's the limit when you want to give back.
54:36
What does that feel like to give back like that?
54:41
It's truly fulfilling. It's something I want to
54:43
continue to do. I, I would say it's worth a lot.
54:51
And all the money in the world does not have the same impact
54:58
that helping others grow and see them, you know, evolve into into
55:05
professionals that can help them sustain their livelihood, you
55:12
know, their families and have an amazing career.
55:16
Giving back. Somebody gave me in life a
55:19
chance coming in as a refugee and I want to do the same thing.
55:25
You know I stood on others shoulders to get to where I am
55:30
and it's time for me to give back at the same time.
55:35
I love that. And we talked a little bit
55:37
about, you know, those challenges that you had coming
55:39
over as a refugee, having to learn the culture.
55:42
You know, you didn't have anything.
55:44
You're starting over all again. What's another big challenge in
55:49
your life, Corinne, that you've had to overcome?
55:52
How did you get through that and what did you learn going through
55:55
that process? Well, one of the biggest things
56:00
was, you know, when I left the Watergate, it was not on good
56:05
terms. And I want going to a big story
56:09
about that. But it was a life learning
56:11
lesson for me and I was very disappointed.
56:14
I was down. I didn't work for about two
56:19
months and come to find out that somebody had an agenda that was,
56:26
you know, not not good at the end of the day.
56:30
But what was good was, you know, Jean Louis Paladin really was
56:39
influential in the community and he helped connect me with
56:45
Michelle Richard, which today has helped me grow to where I am
56:50
today. So it's critical that you keep
56:54
your relationships, you know, and it was, it was a tough time,
57:00
you know, not knowing where I was going to end up, but that
57:03
opened a lot of doors. So having those relationships,
57:08
keeping them close to your vest, treating people with respect.
57:12
I think those are key elements of you know that the the you
57:16
know, some of the mistakes and career movements as a set back,
57:20
but then persevering and opening doors.
57:22
So, Karim, as you think back to that uncomfortable parting of
57:27
ways at Watergate, is there maybe a part of you that has a
57:32
little bit of gratitude for that experience because of the doors
57:37
that eventually opened up for you?
57:40
Absolutely. You know, when you're in it and
57:43
you're close to it, you don't realize what what you're going
57:49
through that it is making you stronger.
57:53
It's making you think differently and how can you in
58:00
life once you've gone through it, then you realize that any
58:04
adversity that comes, even though I went through hardship
58:08
coming in from Uganda, but I was a kid, I was 12 years old.
58:12
I didn't know any better. It was more difficult on my
58:15
family than myself. As you become an adult and you
58:19
get into the professional world or in life, you really look at
58:25
your experiences, not to dwell on, but to learn from and that's
58:29
what makes you stronger and move forward.
58:33
So I, I feel that that's a great step.
58:38
And look, life is not easy. Life is hard, but if you embrace
58:43
it the correct way and don't go down a wrong path, and if you
58:50
have people that are supporting you through that, you know, my,
58:55
my mother, my sister, my friends, they were all, you
59:00
know, supportive during that time.
59:02
And even though you don't feel good about it, they they're
59:06
there for you and you don't even need to reach out because they
59:11
know what you're going through. And you also mentioned the
59:14
importance of maintaining those professional relationships
59:18
'cause that's something that, you know, as you left Watergate
59:21
that really helped to get your feet back on the ground.
59:24
Do you have any recommendations for listeners on how they can do
59:28
that themselves? How to maintain those
59:30
relationships? Yeah, I think it's it's
59:34
important. So, you know, when I spoke
59:37
earlier about Jean Louis and the chef's brotherhood, I think it's
59:43
important, you know, for us all to continue to nurture those
59:51
relationships. You know, it's, it's not about,
59:55
you know, just picking up a phone and calling and, and
59:58
saying, hey, how you're doing. It's, it's really, you know,
1:00:01
networking and developing those 3 or 4.
1:00:07
Core business relationships that you can have, that you can share
1:00:12
ideas with, that you can, you know, be totally transparent and
1:00:19
address what you are looking to do or what challenges you're
1:00:23
going through and at the same time reciprocate, you know, with
1:00:29
them. And, you know, food and beverage
1:00:31
brings people together and whether you are in the
1:00:35
hospitality business or you're in the technology business, it's
1:00:39
always good to break bread with somebody and you see a different
1:00:43
side of them. You, you have a great open
1:00:46
conversation where you're not in a fishbowl, but you're, you're
1:00:51
communicating and getting to know each other of who we all
1:00:56
are and supporting each other through that times.
1:01:01
You know, when Michelle Richard was, you know, part of our
1:01:06
organization, even with Northwood, he was going through
1:01:09
some challenging times. We would sit down and just chat
1:01:13
and, and, you know, I knew the challenges he was going through
1:01:16
and how I could help him through that.
1:01:19
And then it's up to the individual what they want to do
1:01:22
or not do. But but it's it's, it's critical
1:01:25
that you invest in your in your friends and your professional
1:01:29
friends and family. So it's not like I've got to
1:01:32
keep close tabs on 100 different people.
1:01:35
It's sort of this core circle of folks that you trust that you
1:01:39
can open up to, that you guys can share stories and support
1:01:42
each other. Absolutely.
1:01:44
And it's the core, you know, and and that's important.
1:01:48
You know, you don't need to, like you said, have 50 or 100.
1:01:55
You know, it's, it's, it's important that you understand
1:01:59
what is it that clicks between you and that person?
1:02:04
And are they on the same wavelength as you?
1:02:08
And how can they support you? You know, off and on.
1:02:14
Karim, I've just got one more question for you today.
1:02:16
But before I ask it, I want to do 3 quick things.
1:02:19
First of all, anybody that wants to get in touch with Karim
1:02:22
directly, we've got his e-mail address
1:02:24
herekaylakani@northwoodhospitality.com. So that's Klak
1:02:30
hani@northwoodhospitality.com and don't worry, we'll include
1:02:34
that in the show notes. Also, as a reminder, if you want
1:02:37
to get your hotel and restaurant employees access to benefits
1:02:40
that won't hurt them financially and carries that financial
1:02:43
upside for the company, reach out to us at Add Back
1:02:45
benefits.com. Finally, if you'll take just a
1:02:48
moment and leave us a comment or review on your favorite podcast
1:02:52
app, you'll hold a special place in my heart forever.
1:02:54
Thank you. So last question for you now,
1:02:57
Karim, you and I reconnect a year from today and you're
1:03:01
celebrating something really big.
1:03:03
What's that big thing that you hope to be celebrating one year
1:03:07
from today? Wow, that's quite the question.
1:03:14
I hope that I'm celebrating improving somebody's life, that
1:03:22
they reached out or I was put in a situation where I had the
1:03:28
opportunity to share my time and knowledge and that took them to
1:03:34
another level in their career, a greater level to help them in
1:03:40
their future, be it in the business sense or personal
1:03:44
sense. And you know, whether we're
1:03:48
celebrating their success in business or in life, I hope it's
1:03:57
something similar to that, that I that I had a part, something
1:04:01
to do with that. So that would be Michael.
1:04:04
I love that Karim Makani from Northwood Hospitality.
1:04:08
I want to be the first to thank you for sharing both your time
1:04:11
and your story with us today. I really appreciate it.
1:04:15
Thank you very much for your time.
1:04:16
Anthony was great and let's stay in touch.
1:04:21
Folks, that's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories
1:04:24
podcast. Thanks for learning with us
1:04:26
today.