Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about their choice of The Mysterious Planet (1/4)

Transcript

Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about their choice of The Mysterious Planet (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:19
  None. Hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 0:36
  for doing quicker. In 45 minutes, another team of
• 0:42
  dedicated podcasters take on Rod Brown's strange, very, very
• 0:48
  strange opinions. In another episode of Strictly
• 0:52
  Come Hamster First 3 venerable podcasters face inquisition in
• 0:58
  the much awaited return of a hamster with a blunt pen knife.
• 1:03
  Hello. Hello.
• 1:10
  Well, you know what? That was the that was the only
• 1:15
  for for years, the only piece of continuity that I had on video.
• 1:20
  So I memorized that that bit of BBC continuity for some reason,
• 1:26
  because that's how my head works.
• 1:27
  So it seemed like the perfect introduction to a 14 part epic
• 1:34
  hamster with a blunt pen knife. What are we doing?
• 1:38
  Why are we doing this? What madness is this The.
• 1:42
  Nearest Endeavour before this was poor Jason Thompson, who did
• 1:48
  all 12 episodes of Dallas Master Plan and Mission to the Unknown.
• 1:51
  But now you guys, you're going 1 episode better than that.
• 1:56
  Yep, it's been a while, guys, It's.
• 1:58
  Been a long time. In months or so.
• 2:02
  It hasn't been. Too long to wait.
• 2:05
  But you know, we're back now. We've we've changed the format
• 2:08
  back to what it was. Last time we spoke we was doing
• 2:12
  45 minute episodes. Well, we did.
• 2:14
  Empire of Death. We did.
• 2:16
  Yeah. That's true.
• 2:19
  I understand the format wasn't going so well, the arcs are a
• 2:22
  bit loose and limp, and the series was on the brink of
• 2:24
  cancellation. We've we've been told off by the
• 2:30
  higher powers, we've been too violent, we need to be more
• 2:33
  funny. So we've got a brand new theme
• 2:40
  arrangement to lead us in and we've spunked all the budget on
• 2:44
  the opening shot. Admittedly fabulous opening
• 2:49
  shot. Yes.
• 2:51
  Can I, can I ask you both to indulge me for a second because
• 2:55
  obviously recently I've done a commentary with you, Fraser on
• 2:58
  the Happiness Patrol. Somehow we managed to make that
• 3:01
  three times the length of the Happiness Patrol with
• 3:04
  spectacular success. I've also done And that's your
• 3:07
  favorite story. And so I we did a fabulous in
• 3:10
  person commentary on the city of death, which we did gone out to
• 3:15
  the extra people and is imminently about to be released
• 3:18
  to the salivating hamster audience, which was fabulous as
• 3:22
  well. And we kind of chose this one on
• 3:24
  the back of those two because this is my I don't think it's
• 3:28
  this is the best season of Doctor Who, but it's one of my
• 3:31
  all time favourites. And that's because, and I have
• 3:34
  told this story quite a few Times Now, but a difficult point
• 3:38
  of my life, this box that came out so 93 in that fabulous
• 3:43
  TARDIS tin. And I had Tom Baker on the
• 3:46
  bottom at a point when I really needed something to take me away
• 3:51
  from my life. And I can just remember putting
• 3:55
  Mysterious Planet in the first part and I was totally whisked
• 4:00
  away. And that day I watched all 14
• 4:03
  bloody episodes on VHS. I think I wore out that VHS by
• 4:07
  the end of the year and I just wasn't in my world.
• 4:10
  I wasn't in my world of sisters having nervous breakdowns,
• 4:13
  losing a house, dad going to prison and all that bullshit.
• 4:17
  I was in this amazing, colourful, exciting, twist
• 4:21
  ridden world with fabulous characters and a hero right at
• 4:26
  the heart of the story that I just absolutely adored.
• 4:30
  And so many people have tried to tell me over the years just how
• 4:34
  sorry this season of Doctor Who is and how many faults it has.
• 4:40
  And I don't always disagree with those people.
• 4:43
  I do think there are some issues here, but, and it's kind of a
• 4:49
  lousy argument to say, well, because of what it meant to me
• 4:51
  when I was younger, but because of what it meant to me when I
• 4:55
  was younger, I just fucking love it.
• 4:58
  And, and it takes me back. I will watch this with you now.
• 5:01
  And every time I look at the screen, it will take me back.
• 5:04
  The 13 year old Joe who was having a really, really shitty
• 5:07
  time in his life, who just for like 25 minutes was so happy.
• 5:13
  And that's the magic of Doctor Who.
• 5:15
  And I just wanted to say that before we went in.
• 5:17
  Yeah, it's, it's fascinating. I was 11 when I saw this.
• 5:21
  So this, I saw it on original transmission and the first
• 5:26
  episode went out the week that I started secondary school and I
• 5:31
  was in a big mess. I didn't like going to secondary
• 5:34
  school, I didn't want to go. And I think that coloured my
• 5:39
  perception of this season for a long time because it's all bound
• 5:43
  up in the same way yours is with, with that starting
• 5:47
  something new that you don't necessarily want to do and and
• 5:50
  everything else. But there are some very happy
• 5:54
  tales of youth to come, particularly for these first 4
• 5:58
  episodes because lots of things happen.
• 6:00
  But also, it was the first time I said anything bad about Doctor
• 6:04
  Who. Oh, I think I know this but.
• 6:08
  Yeah, I will tell you when we start.
• 6:10
  Well, when did Fraser first see this epic?
• 6:15
  The exact same time as you did, Joe, more or less that this was
• 6:20
  something I got for my birthday when I was 13.
• 6:25
  My 13th or 14th birthday. It'd be my 14th birthday.
• 6:30
  Got the TARDIS tin. I've been I'd be high on the
• 6:32
  TARDIS tin as there was two tins that year.
• 6:34
  There was the TARDIS one, there was the the Dalek one with
• 6:38
  remembrance in the chasing. So I knew I was getting this for
• 6:42
  me birthday at lined it up in Boots of all places.
• 6:46
  Boots had a sort of database, very sort of early version of
• 6:54
  Internet where you could just type away and search things on
• 6:58
  this computer and Boots and it would bring up, you know, she
• 7:00
  put Doctor Who and it would bring up all the Doctor Who
• 7:04
  videos you could buy in. Boots.
• 7:06
  In boots, Yeah, Boots, I don't remember.
• 7:09
  Boots ever selling VHS? No, no.
• 7:11
  Oh, I bought the Deadly Assassin in Boots in Bracknell.
• 7:14
  Yeah, amongst others. Woollies.
• 7:16
  I remember, yeah. Woollies This is the time of
• 7:21
  Where Woollies and Our Price and W Smiths.
• 7:25
  And oh, you're taking me back now.
• 7:28
  So yeah, I'd had it lined up. I knew I was getting it so I got
• 7:30
  it for me birthday and I'm pretty sure because my memory is
• 7:34
  abysmal, but I'm very certain that I had the day off school
• 7:37
  that day and I was very certain it was because I was sick
• 7:44
  because I was poorly and but it might have been it was snowed
• 7:47
  off because it was a snowy day and so off school got me
• 7:54
  birthday present to me big birthday present on goes
• 7:57
  episodes one to four straight away.
• 7:59
  So I always associate this with snow, this story with its snow.
• 8:05
  And I got because I remember when I got the DVD set as well,
• 8:11
  not long after I got the DVD, I've got that for Christmas one
• 8:14
  year. And not long after that it's
• 8:15
  snowed as well. So I put Mysterious Planet on
• 8:19
  because it was a snowy day and I got the the Blu-ray and I've
• 8:23
  been waiting for like a snowy day to watch Mysterious Planet
• 8:26
  and yeah, climate change. What we've got to say now that
• 8:30
  next time our Blizzard's due quick phrase off to Ravalox.
• 8:35
  But yeah, climate change, you know, we've had snow ideas, but
• 8:37
  I've not been able to get get myself in front of the the blue
• 8:41
  ray player with them. So I have had to crack it open
• 8:44
  and watch it on a non snow idea. But yeah, that's, that's always
• 8:46
  going to be my memory of, of certainly this this chunk this
• 8:52
  quarter. But did you enjoy it?
• 8:53
  And I mean, obviously we're going to get to the nuts and
• 8:55
  bolts of every part of every story, but.
• 8:58
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think if I remember at the
• 9:02
  time, it just felt very, umm, run-of-the-mill, if I let you
• 9:07
  know, like just a standard Doctor Who story.
• 9:09
  It's sort of like meat and potatoes.
• 9:11
  Doctor lands on a planet, there's a mystery mystery in the
• 9:14
  title, and Doctor solves the mystery.
• 9:17
  There's a robot, there's some aliens that aren't aliens.
• 9:20
  You know, shit happens. World is threatened, universe
• 9:25
  threatened, day saves. Off we go.
• 9:27
  And kind of skipping ahead a bit, I was a little bit more
• 9:32
  down on Mind Warp and a lot more up on Terror of the Vervoids
• 9:38
  before the end was just a bit of a, well, that was an end.
• 9:45
  But you know, it's, it's, you know, you, you're not going to
• 9:48
  come down on the people that say this is shit, but you know, I
• 9:50
  will. He's a mad get in the sea a lot
• 9:53
  of years. There's nothing wrong with it.
• 9:55
  There's absolutely nothing wrong with, you know, there's there's
• 9:58
  no flaw in any of these stories episodes that we're going to
• 10:02
  discuss that you can't point at any other story of Doctor Who
• 10:06
  and say, yeah, what about, you know, you see you, you come at
• 10:09
  me with with a flaw in this and I will pick you 3 of the stories
• 10:12
  back and just go, what about that?
• 10:13
  What about that? What about that one?
• 10:15
  I wonder if the very well trodden, behind the scenes
• 10:18
  nightmare of trial of the Time Lord has coloured the the
• 10:23
  opinions of those people watching it now.
• 10:26
  Because I think people know about the crisis behind the
• 10:29
  scenes before they know about the details of the story now.
• 10:34
  I mean, obviously I didn't know any of this watching.
• 10:39
  I didn't know and that's. Why we loved it.
• 10:41
  Exactly. Obviously, you know, your
• 10:43
  children of Williams there will have a reaction, which is no
• 10:47
  doubt going to be a common theme, but certainly, you know,
• 10:52
  me 79 gang watching, watching the VHS, knowing nothing about
• 10:56
  this, didn't didn't have that any baggage.
• 10:59
  But even now that I know, now that I've, you know, had an
• 11:02
  opportunity to delve into my 6 Doctor handbook and do a little
• 11:07
  bit of, you know, research to kind of put a few dates in place
• 11:13
  and, you know, work out when things are happening, when
• 11:16
  things aren't happening, you know, knowing what's going on
• 11:19
  behind the scenes probably makes us think of it better than
• 11:22
  anything else because it's kind of like the flux, isn't it?
• 11:26
  You know what? We look at the flux and you
• 11:27
  know, everyone says the same thing about the flux.
• 11:30
  You look and you watch and you think, my God, that was an
• 11:32
  excellent 6 episodes of Doctor Who very well resolved at the
• 11:37
  end. And you know, and then everyone
• 11:42
  goes and Can you believe they made it June COVID, you know, so
• 11:46
  kind of what? I wanted to say Winston's
• 11:49
  bunker. You know, two of the things I
• 11:51
  took was the trial of a Time Lord and Flux.
• 11:53
  So maybe I've just got a thing about Doctor Who being made.
• 11:56
  During a catastrophe. Similar, similar things isn't
• 12:00
  it's, it's, you know, bucks against the ball sort of story
• 12:05
  making it's, you know, a running theme.
• 12:08
  You know what, what we're going to do then, now that we're kind
• 12:10
  of up against it, we'll, we'll put a story arc in place, will
• 12:16
  not just do four or three individual stories.
• 12:19
  We will do, you know, 1 connective, connective theme.
• 12:23
  And it's, you know, obviously that's a big success of Flux.
• 12:26
  You know how successful it is with the 14 episodes we're about
• 12:31
  to discuss. We'll, we'll probably get to at
• 12:33
  some point, I think. It's yeah, I see what you're
• 12:38
  saying, but also this is a production team that's had
• 12:42
  longer to get a series of Doctor Who in in shape than they've had
• 12:49
  since 19. Well, ever ever really.
• 12:53
  Or certainly since 19. 70 going into the office, haven't they?
• 12:56
  They've had two years effectively or a.
• 12:58
  Year and a half and and they can't even get that right.
• 13:01
  And this is the annoying thing. They're trying lots of things,
• 13:04
  but everything they're trying, someone in the production team
• 13:08
  was saying, Oh no, that's no good.
• 13:09
  Oh, no, oh, I don't like that. Oh, I don't know that how There
• 13:13
  are four stories that they commissioned that don't make it
• 13:16
  to. The street, it's kind of crazy,
• 13:17
  isn't? It you know which is just.
• 13:20
  Yeah, there are other periods where lots of stories fall
• 13:22
  through. Season 6 is another example of
• 13:25
  that as. Well, this is a production team
• 13:27
  that is hugely and utterly complacent in the fact that
• 13:32
  they've been cancelled and they were actually cancelled and then
• 13:35
  they've got a reprieve. But what have they done to make
• 13:39
  Doctor Who any different, really?
• 13:41
  It's not a lot. I really like what JNT says in
• 13:44
  his production diary because he sort of goes well, Eric, I've
• 13:49
  done everything I was supposed to do.
• 13:51
  I've pulled in the cast, I've had the sets.
• 13:55
  Bill, I've, you know, employed the musician.
• 13:58
  I've done absolutely everything the producer is supposed to do.
• 14:02
  All you had to do was get the bloody scripts ready and you had
• 14:04
  a long time to do it and you couldn't do it.
• 14:08
  Yeah, it's, yeah, I with the benefit of hindsight, you could
• 14:14
  say Eric Sabe would should have gone.
• 14:18
  You could say JNT possibly should have gone.
• 14:21
  At this point. There should have been a whole
• 14:22
  new production team in place to do something new then.
• 14:25
  We wouldn't have this fabulous story.
• 14:28
  We wouldn't have Doctor Who. No.
• 14:30
  Well, no, we wouldn't. Well, we might have done if we
• 14:32
  hadn't had Eric. If Eric, say, would have left,
• 14:35
  we might have had. If JNT had left, you can't see
• 14:40
  the hiatus, you can't see them coming back, you can't see
• 14:46
  anyone or the BBC having sort of the will to say, well, actually
• 14:49
  let's go out and push on and, you know, bring it in with a new
• 14:52
  new production team. Obviously.
• 14:54
  I think the interesting thing is, is the decision that the
• 14:57
  make, you know, the the season 23 as it would have stood
• 15:04
  without the hiatus is kind of commissioned.
• 15:06
  It's underway, scripts are in place and directors are being
• 15:09
  booked for, you know, the first the first story.
• 15:15
  It's it's that decision that then make to say, well were
• 15:18
  episode count has been slashed down to 14 episodes from was it
• 15:24
  20 would have been 22 or. Yeah, well, it would have been,
• 15:28
  well, it would have been 1345 minutes.
• 15:31
  In 45 minutes. So that's 26.
• 15:33
  So you're slashed from sort of, you know, 26 episodes worth of
• 15:37
  stuff down to down to 14. The the decision that they make
• 15:42
  is, is not to just well, OK, we'll plot on with these three
• 15:45
  stories is and it maybe is a bit bolder to see actually we've got
• 15:49
  a bit more time. So we can do something
• 15:51
  different. We can we don't have to go ahead
• 15:54
  with these. We'll, you know, have this idea
• 15:56
  of the the the season long arc, which is going to be the trail
• 16:01
  because the show is on trial. So we'll put the trail on on the
• 16:04
  show. And that's the kind of decision,
• 16:07
  isn't it? That really, because that means,
• 16:10
  you know, that they haven't been planning this for two years.
• 16:12
  They've been planning it for, umm, sort of about six months,
• 16:18
  nine months, you know, so that's, that's the real sort of
• 16:22
  killer decision. Whether they were right or wrong
• 16:24
  to make that is again over discussion.
• 16:26
  Weirdly enough, I think that was an unpopular decision at the
• 16:30
  time that they decided to go for a season long arc and put the
• 16:33
  show on trial. I think that's a decision that's
• 16:36
  made this age very well because this is the direction television
• 16:40
  ultimately went into. And a season like Trial and a
• 16:43
  Time Lord is like a season of new who now you know, with the
• 16:47
  beginning, a middle and an end and lots of different stories
• 16:50
  taking place in the middle. Yeah, but we want a more
• 16:52
  coherent middle and end. And that's still to be decided.
• 17:02
  But don't forget, this is the second time they've done this.
• 17:05
  This is the second time in the show's history when for a season
• 17:09
  long arc. Yeah, well, the first time, so
• 17:11
  much better. The first time is fantastic.
• 17:15
  You know, the first time you know you, you are a full series.
• 17:18
  You know, now you're kind of chopping, chopping down into the
• 17:21
  14. So should we really?
• 17:24
  Be looking back as far as the Daleks master plan.
• 17:27
  I know I'm being facetious. One thing I would like to say
• 17:32
  before we kick into because I don't think I've made myself
• 17:35
  quite clear enough, and I was quite clear actually in the
• 17:38
  season 23 strictly is just the one thing I think they they used
• 17:45
  the time and made changes that work so brilliantly was and
• 17:51
  especially in this script we're about to watch, is they
• 17:54
  revolutionized Colin's sick doctor and they repackaged him
• 18:00
  as a, as a what's light in hero with thoughtful moments.
• 18:06
  He's charming, he's funny, and he's still got that sort of acid
• 18:11
  whip, but he's not nasty, he's not hurting people.
• 18:15
  His relationship with Perry is working.
• 18:17
  Like those two actors have looked at what they've done and
• 18:21
  gone riot. We've done that, now let's do
• 18:25
  this. And I just think in terms of
• 18:27
  repackaging the Doctor, this is one of the biggest positive
• 18:32
  shifts between two seasons that you'll ever see.
• 18:36
  I think they it happens again with McCoy between Dragon Fire
• 18:39
  and Remembrance of the Daleks. But there's moments of darkness
• 18:43
  and all of that and and thoughtful moments in season 24.
• 18:46
  I just think if Colin had started here, things might have
• 18:52
  been different. Yeah, I there's certainly, it's
• 18:56
  a, it's a cuddlier, nicer doctor, but the actual lines
• 19:01
  that he, him and Perry are given, they're playing against
• 19:04
  and they're making it warmer than actually it being a
• 19:08
  completely different relationship.
• 19:10
  You know, it's they, if they played it in the way that they
• 19:14
  played season 22, it's exactly the same toxic relationship and
• 19:19
  they're just playing it warmer, which is absolutely fine.
• 19:23
  But I don't think it's as big a retooling of that relationship.
• 19:29
  I think it's just the actors twisting the way that they play
• 19:34
  it rather than the way it's written being being really
• 19:38
  different. Well, I don't think, I don't
• 19:40
  think Colin would have. Every creature plays its part.
• 19:43
  The purpose of life is too big to be knowable. 1,000,000 He
• 19:46
  wouldn't have had a line like that in season 22, I don't
• 19:48
  think. I I think.
• 19:50
  Yeah, I think you get that in in the Two Doctors, and I think
• 19:55
  Robert Holmes does that and that, as I've coined it, the
• 19:59
  celestial sadness that he's got. You know, I think that is there
• 20:03
  in in the Two Doctors as much as it is here.
• 20:06
  But I think you're right, there is a different emphasis on his
• 20:09
  doctor. Maybe it is the?
• 20:10
  Performance and maybe, yeah. I think it's.
• 20:12
  The performance, yeah, I think if you just looked at the
• 20:15
  script, if you looked at the transcript, then you put your
• 20:18
  head in the space of the attack of the Cybermen 6th Doctor and
• 20:23
  read those lines out that way, you could see that going exactly
• 20:26
  the same way. I think it's very much Colin and
• 20:29
  Nicola who've who've said now we've had 80 months off, we're
• 20:32
  not doing that again. The show's in, the show's in
• 20:36
  trouble now, guys. We can't keep this experiment
• 20:39
  going any longer. It has to, has to stop.
• 20:42
  We'll have to. Stop.
• 20:43
  And then in Story 2, we're right back into a toxic relationship.
• 20:47
  Between the two, there we will go.
• 20:50
  There, absolutely. And for a long time, I'm
• 20:52
  declared that the very worst Doctor Who story ever.
• 20:56
  Oh dear. I won't tell you what just
• 20:57
  recently won the best Colin Baker story.
• 21:00
  Ever. I've changed.
• 21:03
  I've changed my opinion ever since, but I.
• 21:06
  Love it. Well, look guys, we.
• 21:08
  Should probably go into episode 1, but I.
• 21:10
  Think there's a bit to bit to discuss here.
• 21:14
  Like to say that planets come and go, stars perish, Massa
• 21:19
  coalesces reforms. Into other patterns, other
• 21:23
  worlds. Nothing can be eternal except
• 21:27
  the three of us coming together to discuss Doctor Who.
• 21:30
  Let's go. Someone counts in.
• 21:33
  Right, OK, in 54321 go go. And this was the first thing
• 21:43
  that really made me mad. Bloody hell, you got in there
• 21:47
  quick. And this is where I turn around
• 21:50
  to my mum and said, well I don't like this new theme tune.
• 21:53
  No, this is not right. Do you love it now I.
• 21:56
  Didn't oh, within weeks I've loved it, you know, but it was
• 22:02
  just I think it's got a. Lot and a fear of spookiness
• 22:05
  about it. Yeah, it's, it's very good, but
• 22:07
  it's not Peter Howe and I don't think it sits with the titles
• 22:12
  well. Excuse me fellas while I spaff
• 22:15
  all over the screen watching this.
• 22:16
  It is absolutely gorgeous and the first time I saw this was on
• 22:20
  a tiny black and white portable TV in a caravan.
• 22:25
  Yes, I was very desperate to go home and see this in full
• 22:28
  colour. Were you squinting through the
• 22:30
  snow, going, I think, pretty? Much.
• 22:32
  Yep, I was in Durdle Door where they filmed Jodie's regeneration
• 22:37
  on holiday. The music here is so great.
• 22:41
  Dominic Glynn is so good, he's. You know that I mean, is that
• 22:49
  the best special effects shot in the whole of Classic Who?
• 22:51
  Yeah, it's one. Or probably.
• 22:53
  I mean, look at that TARDIS. Oh my God.
• 22:55
  And then oh oh. We seem to be on there.
• 22:59
  It is Doctor Who we're watching. One set?
• 23:02
  Yeah. What's going?
• 23:05
  On No. Oh, but it is Colin.
• 23:07
  Yeah. I think it has to be said you
• 23:09
  can always tell where you are in the common Baker era by the size
• 23:12
  of his bouffant. That's.
• 23:13
  Right. Yes.
• 23:16
  We're sort of past mid level now to.
• 23:19
  What would you call that barrister whipping?
• 23:22
  Yep. Whopping, did you say?
• 23:24
  Whopping hair. I think.
• 23:30
  He's a nice spooky opening, though he doesn't know where he
• 23:33
  is. He doesn't know why he's here,
• 23:35
  this sinister figure sitting there in the darkness, waiting
• 23:38
  for him. Is it a good set though?
• 23:42
  Yeah, I I I cannot divorce myself from.
• 23:45
  Those early years of watching this, so no, but yes.
• 23:51
  What? Why is the answer no?
• 23:53
  Well, it's a bit cramped. Isn't it?
• 23:57
  It's a courtroom. Yeah, but you and you can only
• 23:59
  shoot it in certain ways and they do only shoot it in certain
• 24:02
  ways. But, you know, courtrooms aren't
• 24:05
  generally big. Impressive.
• 24:08
  But this is this is Gallifrey and courtrooms.
• 24:11
  Why does it have to look like an English courtroom?
• 24:13
  Why can't we have something more imaginative and different?
• 24:16
  You do remember that corridor we saw in the Five Doctors?
• 24:20
  Right. Yeah, exactly.
• 24:21
  Yeah. It's quite impressive compared.
• 24:24
  To that. Are you wanting a fountain and
• 24:26
  some artwork? Absolutely.
• 24:29
  He wants that fabulous table. I mean Flavia and everyone was
• 24:32
  sitting around. Do you remember?
• 24:34
  I think it's fine, you know, it's, it's, it does what?
• 24:38
  You've got your two stands, you've got the doctor stand,
• 24:40
  you've got the Valiard stand, you've got somewhere for Linda
• 24:43
  Bellingham to sit. You've got you, just come in and
• 24:46
  sit down. I mean, I want us to talk about
• 24:48
  every single guest actor because I think they're all fabulous in
• 24:50
  various ways. Yes.
• 24:51
  Can we please be on Time Lord Watch?
• 24:53
  Because one of my favorite quotes from any commentary is
• 24:58
  Jane Baker going. I was there in the studio and
• 25:01
  John was incandescent. He was screaming into the
• 25:04
  microphone. One of those Time Lords has
• 25:07
  fallen asleep. Wake him up even then.
• 25:11
  Watching Time Lords. Oh, don't you love that?
• 25:17
  I mean Colin's pomposity. You can't put me on trial.
• 25:21
  And I'm fair play to Colin for coming in and saying, but the
• 25:25
  audience are going to remember I'm the president and we've got
• 25:29
  to deal with this. Yeah, yeah, there's a little bit
• 25:32
  of continuity going on. There's just a little bit.
• 25:38
  You've got your War Games reference, Yeah, in there.
• 25:41
  But I mean, because these, you know what, we've got a lot of
• 25:45
  these scenes to go through in the next 13 episodes, guys, and
• 25:49
  these. All should be quoting the whole
• 25:51
  thing, don't you worry. These.
• 25:53
  Backyard. Come in for a bit of Flack, but
• 25:57
  I, I like them. I'm going to say I think
• 26:00
  watching this one back, these first 4 episodes back and in
• 26:04
  preparation for this, I really enjoyed.
• 26:07
  What you mean what these interfaces of the spectrum?
• 26:10
  No, that's what's on the TV. I liked.
• 26:13
  I just Colin and Michael together.
• 26:16
  It's just gold. I mean, that's another Jane
• 26:18
  Baker quote because she tells Pitt Baker to shut up.
• 26:21
  She goes. I think the trial scenes are
• 26:22
  magnificent. Oh, look at this nice misty
• 26:26
  forest. Well, and you know what?
• 26:29
  What in April, Well sorry, May 1987, I went on a school trip
• 26:36
  and we went on a school trip to the medieval village or the Iron
• 26:42
  Age village and these woods so. You saved up against that.
• 26:48
  Trial We played hide and seek where they do the big chase in
• 26:53
  episode 3. How old did you say you were
• 26:55
  again? I would have been 11-12.
• 26:58
  Please dismiss my last comment. But look, she's holding his arm
• 27:03
  so all of the stuff about the Doctor and the companion can't
• 27:05
  touch, that's no longer important anymore.
• 27:09
  He's loving. He's just loving being
• 27:12
  travelling and the mysteries around them they're.
• 27:16
  So this is all them, this is all, you know, Colin and Nicola
• 27:19
  doing all this stuff. You can imagine just the
• 27:22
  complete opposite, where Colin is strutting away and Nicola's
• 27:26
  trying to run, to carry up, catch up with them and it's all
• 27:29
  in there, it's all with them. And they put her in a sensible
• 27:33
  costume. I mean, what's?
• 27:35
  Going on, it's extraordinary. Everyone's got their own volume,
• 27:38
  volume eyes are going this year and they basically everyone's
• 27:43
  turning into J&T. Aren't they colourful and.
• 27:45
  Crazy it was the 80s. They smile at each other all the
• 27:51
  time, you know? Yes, you see, you see the
• 27:54
  relationship between the two actors on the screen as well as
• 27:57
  the two characters. Yep.
• 28:00
  Oh, I love this. It's a really intelligent life
• 28:02
  here. Apart from me you mean?
• 28:03
  You mean? But look, it's delivery of that
• 28:05
  lane. Delivery of his lane could be so
• 28:08
  acerbic, but he's not. He's just, and it's the way that
• 28:11
  she smiles at him when he says that.
• 28:14
  Arm in arm again, you know, it's just, it's just beautiful, isn't
• 28:17
  it? At the risk of repeating
• 28:19
  something I've said recently, another recording.
• 28:22
  There's an exchange between the two of them in a minute, right
• 28:24
  where I think sums up both their relationship and Doctor Who
• 28:28
  perfectly. Like the Doctor companion
• 28:29
  dynamic where she goes. Oh, doctor, we've got to get out
• 28:33
  of. Here and he goes.
• 28:34
  You're absolutely right, Perry. We must find out what's going on
• 28:37
  here. So that's that's the script.
• 28:41
  That's the script being, you know, these two are still, you
• 28:45
  know, on the same page. You know, this is the same old,
• 28:49
  same old from 22. That's the script.
• 28:51
  Do we're not. They're playing it completely,
• 28:53
  umm, you know, Marx Brothers clowning around and getting away
• 28:59
  with it can. I ask you gentlemen a question,
• 29:02
  please, because, you know, obviously Rolt declared that the
• 29:05
  dialogue in this story was terrible, and particularly in
• 29:10
  this scene between Glitz and Dipper.
• 29:13
  Dipper, I mean, he's wrong, right?
• 29:16
  I think they're wonderful. Yeah, well, just stop a load of
• 29:20
  shit at times, doesn't. He sounds more like an insult,
• 29:24
  Mr. Glitz. Mind you, Fraser, I just
• 29:28
  attempted to kill him. I mean, yeah, it's, it's, yeah,
• 29:34
  it's pretty decent dialogue, but it's you can sense the dead hand
• 29:39
  of Eric Saywood over a lot of it, I think.
• 29:42
  I think it's sparkles the dialogue.
• 29:44
  Yes, I think, I think Glitz is just a one man quote machine.
• 29:51
  He is just, you know, everything that's coming out of his mouth
• 29:54
  is just. It's it's good and it's totally
• 29:58
  selfie, right? Like.
• 29:59
  Yeah, he's good. He's done all the sitcoms, you
• 30:02
  know, he knows how to play the comedy.
• 30:04
  Yep. Come here, you.
• 30:06
  Ignorant maggot risen peasants. Take.
• 30:08
  Me to your leader. What do you see it on that?
• 30:11
  It's why you employ you did at the fetch and carry.
• 30:14
  Now cut along it's. Just really offends my
• 30:17
  sensibilities. Don't think about it too hard,
• 30:19
  sorry you give yourself a hernia.
• 30:22
  I mean it's. Just one banger after another.
• 30:25
  My favorite ones is actually from Dibber at the end where
• 30:28
  it's like, oh, blacklight, yeah, we've got so much on the ship we
• 30:30
  can hardly see. I love that one.
• 30:33
  I like what is it? Don't mock low cunning.
• 30:36
  You're still alive, aren't you? They're.
• 30:39
  Just great it's. Just great and.
• 30:41
  I like how he thinks he's going to wrap Joe Sims around his
• 30:44
  finger. She disarms him in a second.
• 30:47
  None of it, Yeah. It's like we know you're from
• 30:50
  space, we know why you're here, you're going in the prison.
• 30:53
  And you know, like we've talked about this before, but all of
• 30:56
  this sort of prestige casting that JNT is doing, Linda
• 30:59
  Bellingham, Michael Jason, Tony Selby, Joan Sims, these are big
• 31:04
  names. These aren't little names I.
• 31:08
  Mean I'd love his sideburns. I always loved their sideburns.
• 31:12
  Yeah, actually. I think it would work better if
• 31:15
  if GNT had got on someone himself, because let's face it,
• 31:19
  glitters the spit of GNT, isn't he?
• 31:22
  Yes, all all he needs is the Hawaiian shirt and he's away.
• 31:26
  Can I ask you both another question?
• 31:28
  It is the format. I'm really sorry, but do you
• 31:31
  think Dibble was sit on my face? Probably not, no.
• 31:35
  Shame, Oh my God. There's never been a pretty
• 31:39
  bloke and Doctor Who, even 13 year old Joe was very aware.
• 31:43
  It's very odd because he's never you see this.
• 31:45
  Every time, though. Oh.
• 31:47
  He's beautiful. He is beautiful.
• 31:49
  No, he's a bit of rough in it. That's why I like him.
• 31:52
  Mind you, Matt, Michael was saying the same thing about Tony
• 31:54
  Selby, So what do I know? And that's even weirder.
• 31:59
  Especially considering what I've just said about.
• 32:04
  You've got Nicola Bryant there looking absolutely glamorous.
• 32:09
  Oh, don't you love this set in a minute when they go down into
• 32:12
  the the escalator down into the I.
• 32:14
  Just want to say 80s Doctor Who never turn the lights down.
• 32:21
  I mean that is a bit of a problem.
• 32:22
  Lights. Down here when we go into the
• 32:24
  underground base though, it's. Yeah, but it's an, it's a.
• 32:28
  It's an underground base. It's supposed to look like that.
• 32:31
  But this is this is lit beautifully that that.
• 32:35
  Looks everything that's convincing as the sets in the
• 32:38
  Weber fear if we're doing like the undergrounds.
• 32:41
  Yeah, although someone did say they are the shortest escalators
• 32:44
  on the underground. Wow.
• 32:47
  But this is ATV Studio, you know so.
• 32:50
  It's a good mystery though, isn't it?
• 32:52
  It's a good mystery about the planet.
• 32:53
  Well, we've nearly got one mystery resolved there.
• 32:55
  We've nearly found out the doctor's surname.
• 32:59
  Oh yeah. But action.
• 33:01
  Is Python ravalox by? Watching this I I have come to
• 33:06
  the conclusion watching this story and other stories around
• 33:09
  this year, I've come to the conclusion that the doctor is
• 33:12
  actually surname and his first name is his first name is known
• 33:16
  as I am. Oh.
• 33:19
  In this era, he definitely is. That person over there known as
• 33:23
  the Doctor, that's his full name, known as the Doctor.
• 33:27
  Is that why when he met Nona in Frontios, you know he had an
• 33:31
  immediate connection with her Nona and known as in the same
• 33:34
  team? Together.
• 33:36
  Oh this is so great. I suppose there is a billion to
• 33:39
  one chance and there was a place called Marble Arch on Ravalox.
• 33:44
  And that's another billion to one chance it.
• 33:47
  Is it's sparkling right? I can.
• 33:49
  See, it's a good mystery. Michael Grade watch this go out
• 33:53
  didn't he? Was it Michael Grade or Jonathan
• 33:54
  Powell and contacted JNT and said well done.
• 33:58
  No. Well, no.
• 33:58
  Jonathan Powell was had looked over the script and took a big
• 34:04
  shame. Suggestions.
• 34:05
  No, I know. That, but when it went out he
• 34:08
  gave him the thumbs. Oh, right.
• 34:10
  OK. But again, just look, look how
• 34:14
  how much Collins brought this down, you know, in obviously,
• 34:18
  you know, Perry's upset. So you know, the doctor is not
• 34:22
  is is in in tune without he's in key without he's showing
• 34:25
  empathy. You know, it's something he's
• 34:26
  never done much of the previous season.
• 34:29
  It's just so. But you know, that's not the
• 34:32
  script. That's him.
• 34:32
  That's him. It's usually refreshing though,
• 34:35
  isn't it, to see him showing empathy like this.
• 34:38
  I mean, it is coming from this way because you remember back
• 34:41
  when we were 13 or 14, Joe, then this would have been our
• 34:43
  introduction really to Colin. This would have been our
• 34:46
  introduction of him, I think it was.
• 34:47
  My first, yeah. Yeah, if if not this, it would
• 34:50
  have been revelation. But you know, having this is the
• 34:54
  one I can rewatch and rewatch this is this for me.
• 34:57
  Is, is my, you know, baptism of, of the 6th doctor.
• 35:01
  So everything you say after this, you know, you're 2 doctors
• 35:04
  and you attack the same and everything.
• 35:06
  It's it's always kind of tempered for me with knowing
• 35:08
  that this is this is how we is. Yeah.
• 35:12
  What they're doing with Perry as well is precisely what Russell T
• 35:17
  Davis did with Rose when the new series came back.
• 35:20
  You're seeing the scientific, the the sci-fi ideas through the
• 35:25
  idea, through the eyes of the companion in an emotional way.
• 35:29
  So there's that as well. There's that layer to this.
• 35:32
  And I think that's really refreshing because just two
• 35:34
  stories ago she was being chained up in in a cave whilst
• 35:38
  an enormous penis attacked her. You know, this is a far better
• 35:42
  approach to Perry, I think. And I like that we've got the
• 35:46
  mystery of where is Perry, yes, why she's not in the cork
• 35:50
  seeded. And it's just that.
• 35:52
  Bit of where is she? Where you left her.
• 35:55
  Yeah, I will. I will see.
• 35:57
  I think that report scene was mistamed because it kind of does
• 36:02
  break up that flow of what's happening now where Colin is or
• 36:05
  the Doctor is sort of consoling Perry, you know, that that
• 36:10
  interruption there doesn't, you know, kind of.
• 36:14
  No, it's, and I think this is, this is the problem in this
• 36:18
  story particularly, I think it does affect how the story flows.
• 36:23
  And they do interrupt. They don't think about what
• 36:27
  they're interrupting a lot of the time.
• 36:29
  I want to agree but man, when I was 13 I would quote those Colin
• 36:35
  being indignant in the. Trial Oh yeah, well, I think I
• 36:38
  love those scenes and I think they're good.
• 36:40
  I just think. I think the other answer is bad.
• 36:42
  You know what, sorry, your argument is just tired and worn
• 36:45
  out of some poor unfortunate creatures that end up there.
• 36:50
  But it's just more what Fraser was saying about I think you're
• 36:54
  not interrupting a scene or. Like the pace?
• 36:57
  Where you're going to interject them.
• 37:00
  I think other scenes, other times it's not as bad.
• 37:03
  I think it's it's with this one, it is and it's it's probably
• 37:06
  because what we're saying, you know, this is, you know, if
• 37:10
  you're kind of thinking of this is the new improved relationship
• 37:13
  of the doctor and Perry and we're just be than in it.
• 37:15
  We are drinking it all in and all of a sudden we've got to
• 37:19
  stop for an advert and then we'll go back to, you know, if
• 37:22
  it was the end of the scene. You know, it's it's one of the
• 37:25
  things that really struck us about this was, was how meta the
• 37:28
  dialogue is in these. Can't we?
• 37:31
  Just have the edited highlights. But it's like you know it.
• 37:35
  Can't be everyone to to have said that they saved the entire
• 37:39
  universe, you know? But, you know, it's, it's like
• 37:41
  you're, you know, I'm sitting there watching it.
• 37:43
  And then, you know, really just getting into this scene and then
• 37:46
  it cuts away the courtroom. The first thing Colin says is
• 37:47
  why you buy, have to watch. Why have you stopped this here?
• 37:50
  And it's like, yes, why haven't you stopped it here?
• 37:53
  Oh. We're just getting to the best
• 37:54
  bit. But I do think there are, yeah,
• 37:57
  there are some great luck when he goes, Oh, that was clever,
• 37:59
  wasn't it, That trip with the umbrella?
• 38:01
  And I like the Doctor watching his own adventures.
• 38:04
  It's an insane idea, but it is funny.
• 38:07
  Although. They do push their luck at the
• 38:09
  end when he goes. What is it?
• 38:11
  If the rest of his epic is going to be as riveting as this, wake
• 38:14
  me up when it's. Finished.
• 38:16
  Maybe don't. Don't end the story there, you
• 38:19
  know? Can I just say because we've,
• 38:22
  we're long past it now, but the way that the script allowed us
• 38:26
  to look at the situation through the Doctor's eyes as an alien.
• 38:31
  And so him looking at a planet Earth that he has huge like
• 38:36
  emotional connections to as just a planet in the universe.
• 38:40
  And that changes and evolves all the time.
• 38:42
  I really love it when you see through the Doctor's eyes and
• 38:46
  he's not thinking like a person. And Colin is very good at that.
• 38:50
  Well, we said that in very, very good, didn't we?
• 38:52
  We did, yeah. Yeah.
• 38:53
  Those moments are brilliant moments.
• 38:56
  Can I interrupt your wonderful flow there and just give another
• 38:59
  shout out to Dominic Glenn? He's incidental music with the
• 39:02
  Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo.
• 39:05
  Think he hearty? Sort of.
• 39:07
  When we go to the screen, yeah, I love that.
• 39:09
  And I'm really, I remember in 1986 really missing that in mind
• 39:14
  warp because that had been so established that when you go to
• 39:17
  the screen, you've got that Doo. Doo Doo Doo.
• 39:19
  No, no. The the when he's in the tunnel,
• 39:21
  you know the. Yeah, I know what you mean.
• 39:27
  Oh, mind you, the music in Mind Warp is something else.
• 39:30
  Yeah, it's very, very true. Oh, it's Logan.
• 39:33
  Hello. When Dominic Lynn goes well,
• 39:40
  that robot's going down the. Corridor.
• 39:42
  Oh, it's great. Good grief.
• 39:44
  I mean, I feel like loss is going on here.
• 39:46
  I've just seen an enormous robot.
• 39:48
  Joan Sims has entered the scene. We'll come back the enormous
• 39:51
  robot. It's not important.
• 39:53
  Joan Sims, She is often often pointed out as.
• 40:00
  One of the worst pieces of miscasting and doesn't know what
• 40:04
  she's doing. I think she's absolutely bloody
• 40:07
  fabulous. Oh, she knows the brief 100
• 40:10
  percent, 100%. She's playing this, she's
• 40:13
  playing this absolutely straight and she's.
• 40:15
  Not playing it up at all. No, it's not played for comedy,
• 40:20
  and it easily could be, but she is dignified and she is queen
• 40:23
  like and she's remarkably good and no one ever says it.
• 40:28
  She she's read this some wonderful husbands for you so I.
• 40:34
  She's read this script and went to someone and just went.
• 40:37
  So basically it's Boudica but with some spaceship and they've
• 40:41
  went. Bring on my fabulous red wig.
• 40:44
  Let's go. That's 100% what you're doing
• 40:47
  and that is what she's went off and done and it's pitch perfect
• 40:51
  for the. What's her scenes with glitz,
• 40:52
  with the doctor, With Perry? She's she's smarter than
• 40:57
  everyone around her, than anyone.
• 40:59
  Well, actually, she's smarter than anyone ever gives her
• 41:01
  credit for. Keep an eye on the old.
• 41:04
  Woman as well, who's often behind her, who looks a bit like
• 41:07
  Corella, and she looks there she is, like with the pigtails.
• 41:12
  She's like the wise woman of the tribe.
• 41:14
  Oh yes, the guns you. Know, I did go to a party once,
• 41:18
  you know, where those sort of S&M masks that those guards are
• 41:21
  wearing were quite popular. I'm not surprised.
• 41:25
  They're a bit much, aren't they? But how fabulous that they've
• 41:29
  gone to this location as well, which looks like a genuine
• 41:32
  village. Well, it is a genuine village
• 41:35
  and genuinely people live like they're in the Iron Age in that
• 41:39
  village. They've moved it to the other
• 41:41
  side of the road now, so it's not the original village, but at
• 41:44
  that time people were living in those huts like they were in the
• 41:47
  Iron Age, which was brilliant. Oh.
• 41:51
  To you, whiskless youth, you know I'm in the.
• 41:54
  Prime of my youth now. You want to talk about sort of
• 41:57
  gentle wear the same way in the minute where they're talking
• 42:00
  about the books and it's great. Well, building as well.
• 42:04
  HM Stationary Office the. Most mysterious text of all.
• 42:09
  I do remember laughing at that. I like it on the commentary
• 42:14
  that. Adam, is it Blackwood?
• 42:16
  Yeah. He kept that costume.
• 42:19
  He says. And I still do my gardening
• 42:20
  until this day. Well, you know.
• 42:25
  This is 1986, and I've waited a long time for Doctor Who to be
• 42:29
  back. And just, you know, despite all
• 42:32
  these things that I'm saying now, I was so happy to have the
• 42:36
  series back. Really.
• 42:37
  I was so excited for this season.
• 42:41
  You know what's quite refresher, and I know we've got the Time
• 42:43
  Lords in this, but we're not doing Daleks and the Cybermen
• 42:46
  and the Master, you know, we're not doing.
• 42:48
  Well, we are. Well, spoilers.
• 42:56
  But yeah, I mean, yes, they're they're stripping away bits of
• 43:00
  the continuity, but it's still, it's still there.
• 43:04
  I there there is an argument that maybe you did need a big
• 43:09
  blockbustering season opener and you got the Cybermen.
• 43:15
  Well, yeah. And Attack of the Cybermen had
• 43:16
  done very well in 85. The ratings for the first
• 43:20
  episode were particularly strong.
• 43:22
  And then ITV put the A-Team against it.
• 43:25
  So, you know, it's is that thing.
• 43:28
  So yeah, I don't know. I.
• 43:30
  Think this is a better approach? So because, one, because they're
• 43:33
  not just setting up this story, but they're setting up the
• 43:36
  season arc, and two, I just think the idea of this
• 43:41
  mysterious planet, yeah, that's a nice big tasty sci-fi idea to
• 43:46
  hang a story on as well that isn't just an obvious thing like
• 43:51
  using Daleks asidement and the Master and all that.
• 43:53
  You know, it just feels like a good trad Doctor Who story.
• 43:57
  Well, it is. It's the protons.
• 44:00
  But better. Is it the?
• 44:02
  Worst, well, only in the sense that he's taking two of the best
• 44:06
  people to come and work with with malevolent robot like
• 44:10
  beings for their intelligence. But.
• 44:13
  How you can see it's the robot operation.
• 44:17
  Well, you could say the Rebus operation.
• 44:18
  Rebus pronounce it different than me.
• 44:21
  Let's call the whole thing off after we.
• 44:23
  Find the first cliffhanger a bit strange though, where the valley
• 44:26
  are suddenly declares, you know, well, that's it.
• 44:28
  I've decided this is no longer going to be a trial, but he's
• 44:32
  going to be on trial for his Life, OK.
• 44:34
  Well, yeah. Well, it's no, Yeah.
• 44:35
  It's no longer just an informal inquiry.
• 44:39
  It's a it's a fool, but I'm trying.
• 44:40
  You could just change it. And you do that.
• 44:42
  He said so. Well, apparently the prosecutor
• 44:44
  of Gallifrey Law can. Again.
• 44:48
  Oh, why did you stop that? I was just getting to the good
• 44:50
  bit. It's my dear doctor.
• 44:54
  It's what what the audience are often saying, isn't it?
• 44:58
  People say that Holmes was running out of steam, but I'm
• 45:00
  sorry, this darling gold, it's great.
• 45:05
  And Jason plays it brilliantly. I'm sure we have lots more to
• 45:08
  say about him. I should not take the round
• 45:12
  millions of an into. The first The first crash Zoom
• 45:16
  on Colin Baker, please, any moment.
• 45:20
  Doesn't his wow hoodingy face just fill the screen
• 45:24
  beautifully? So that is one that is one nil
• 45:29
  in crash zoom clipping account. Yeah, OK.
• 45:33
  Because that I do love the sting into the into the closing theme
• 45:37
  that Dominic Lynn does. That's so good.
• 45:40
  Yeah, that's great. I always remember one of the
• 45:43
  best times I ever had on Twitter was when Darren Roundels was
• 45:51
  going around and he was put in the John Perkway.
• 45:54
  I am the doctor. Oh yes, on my suggestion and
• 45:59
  credits. Who's used us getting all my
• 46:02
  favorite cliffhangers and stick in rather than the Doctor Who
• 46:05
  theme he was putting in there. That was one of my requests.
• 46:08
  He was like do do trailer download part four of one and it
• 46:11
  was just like the zoom in on Colin space.
• 46:13
  I crossed the void. But he's doing those.
• 46:18
  But we're all just sitting all night, just chucking.
• 46:21
  Oh, it was brilliant. That was so good.
• 46:23
  I was so much that night. Somehow we talked about 100
• 46:27
  things there and I still think we barely scratched the surface.
• 46:31
  Well, there's yeah, but there's lots more to discuss.
• 46:34
  I mean, I absolutely want to talk about Nick Mallett.
• 46:37
  Oh yes. Maybe we'll get to.
• 46:38
  Him in episode 2. What do you reckon?
• 46:41
  Who would you see please? The director.
• 46:45
  Lovely part. Fraser's never good on
• 46:47
  directors. And of course, there'll be much
• 46:50
  more opportunities for us all to quote the dialogue.
• 46:54
  Absolutely, in our second episcopic interface of the
• 46:57
  spectrum.