Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 49 - Lisa Deschamps- CEO of Aviadobio

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Episode 49 - Lisa Deschamps- CEO of Aviadobio · The BioHub - by Avetix

• 0:05
  So today on the Bio Hub, I have Lisa Deschamps.
• 0:08
  She is the CEO of Aviado Bio. So after 25 years at Novartis,
• 0:14
  leading global launches in gene therapy, she's now at the helm
• 0:17
  of Aviado Bio, developing treatments for FTD and other
• 0:21
  neuro conditions. Today we'll talk about career
• 0:24
  moves, mindset, culture and what's ahead.
• 0:27
  So pleasure to have you. Thank you.
• 0:29
  Nice to have. Thank you for having me, Max.
• 0:31
  I really appreciate being here. Oh, and I, we're actually in
• 0:34
  Aviado's office as well. It's a pleasure to be in, so
• 0:38
  thanks for inviting me. So let's let's just start with
• 0:42
  how your career began. So you started in sales and then
• 0:47
  up to C-Suite in Novartis. So what?
• 0:49
  What's the story behind your journey?
• 0:52
  Well, the, the, the original story was that I, I didn't think
• 0:55
  I would end up in healthcare at all.
• 0:57
  So I didn't start out that way. I was a marketing major at
• 1:00
  university and then actually wanted to go into fashion and
• 1:04
  spend a little time in fashion and ended up in healthcare by
• 1:08
  accident, I would say. But I'm so happy that I did
• 1:11
  because it's been a rewarding journey.
• 1:13
  I can't think of anything else that's more inspiring than being
• 1:17
  able to, you know, have an exciting career and change
• 1:21
  people's lives. So very excited to be here.
• 1:23
  But I started carrying the bag, you know, on the ground in sales
• 1:27
  and, and as you say, you know, work my way up through, through
• 1:31
  Novartis, through the years. And I couldn't believe I turned
• 1:34
  around and I'd been there for 25 years.
• 1:35
  I'm like, how am I that old number one?
• 1:37
  And, and where did the time go? But I was, I'm very grateful for
• 1:41
  the tremendous amount of opportunity I had, you know,
• 1:43
  being in such a large at the time when I joined Novartis, it
• 1:47
  was Sandoz. So it was prior to the merger of
• 1:49
  the guy game and then it became Novartis.
• 1:51
  And what that really afforded was just tremendous, you know,
• 1:55
  career opportunity to learn and grow, be exposed to trainings,
• 2:00
  you know, be and career development opportunities, be
• 2:02
  exposed to working in different, you know, parts of the world and
• 2:06
  all different types of roles, both sideways and and linear.
• 2:10
  And so I feel very grateful for the time that I spent there and
• 2:14
  and the opportunities that it afforded me.
• 2:16
  Yeah. And then you've recently made
• 2:18
  the move into biotech. What, What made you move?
• 2:21
  Made that move? It's a great question.
• 2:24
  You know, for me, I always felt it was more of a of a when
• 2:29
  versus an if. I had really always been excited
• 2:33
  by the aspect of being in a more entrepreneurial environment.
• 2:36
  And I and in many cases I had those experiences in Novartis.
• 2:40
  I always around the business units that I was leading, very
• 2:44
  lean and nimble and tried to really create that kind of
• 2:48
  collaborative environment where you didn't have people siloed
• 2:50
  and job functions. And I really like that kind of,
• 2:54
  some might think it's a little chaotic.
• 2:55
  I really love that integration and I think you get the most
• 2:58
  productivity and have the most fun and greatest, greatest
• 3:01
  learnings in that. So my last couple of roles at
• 3:05
  Novartis, I was leading our US and then our global neuroscience
• 3:08
  business and my team had done an acquisition of a company of a
• 3:13
  gene therapy CNS gene therapy company called Avexis.
• 3:17
  And this was the main, the main therapeutic that Avexis was
• 3:21
  developing is a, is a product for SMA spinal muscular atrophy
• 3:26
  called Zolgensma, which I have the privilege with a wonderful
• 3:30
  team to be a part of launching all around the world.
• 3:33
  And so, you know, we LED my team led the acquisition, then I went
• 3:37
  over to lead the worldwide commercialization of the
• 3:41
  acquired portfolio, which mainly in the short term was Zolgensma.
• 3:45
  And after spending a couple of years, I think about three years
• 3:49
  launched bringing Zolgensma to I think at that time 41 markets
• 3:53
  around the world. And most importantly, I think
• 3:55
  when I left, we had treated over 2000 children.
• 3:59
  It was hard to find something that was more rewarding and
• 4:02
  inspiring internally than that. And I just thought, you know,
• 4:06
  cell and gene therapies overall, the more advanced therapies are,
• 4:10
  in my opinion, the future. And I wanted to be a part of
• 4:13
  taking the experience that that I had gained over those last few
• 4:17
  years and bringing that to other organizations.
• 4:19
  There are very few people that had the privilege and it was a
• 4:22
  privilege to be a part of something like that.
• 4:26
  It wasn't always easy. In fact, it was never easy, but
• 4:29
  it was so rewarding. And you know, there's no road
• 4:33
  map, right? So everything we were doing was
• 4:35
  kind of the first time doing, right?
• 4:37
  So there was a lot of pain that came with that.
• 4:40
  And I wanted to be part of sharing those learnings and, and
• 4:43
  making a difference in other larger therapeutic areas.
• 4:46
  So, you know, I guess as I say, the rest is history, but you
• 4:49
  know, I, I kind of, I used that as a jumping off point.
• 4:53
  Yeah, I love that. I mean, you obviously had such a
• 4:57
  successful run in, in big pharma, then coming to to
• 5:00
  biotech, what what made you come to Aveo?
• 5:04
  Yeah, in particular. It's a great question because,
• 5:07
  you know, it's kind of like when you're buying a house, right?
• 5:10
  You're, you're looking around and you're just not quite sure
• 5:13
  which one fits you perfect. But then one day you walk into
• 5:16
  it and it just clicks for you. You know, this is where I can
• 5:19
  see myself. And it was kind of like that.
• 5:21
  You know, I had people, you know, like yourself reach out to
• 5:24
  me in the past. And I had, I had never, you
• 5:27
  know, been, it was never enough to, to jump, you know, to jump
• 5:31
  right and, and push me over the edge.
• 5:33
  But I had the privilege to meet Professor Chris Shaw, who's one
• 5:36
  of the main scientific Co founders of Aviado and the work
• 5:42
  that he was doing out of his lab at King's College London just
• 5:45
  really resonated with me. Having just had the experience
• 5:48
  at Novartis. And on the CNS gene therapy
• 5:51
  side, I knew some of the key challenges that existed in
• 5:55
  bringing therapeutics like this. And really, you know, one of the
• 5:58
  main challenges in CNS is crossing the blood brain barrier
• 6:01
  and developing a gene therapy that can do that in a way that
• 6:05
  doesn't, you know, cause toxicity.
• 6:07
  It's very difficult. And Chris was taking a complete
• 6:10
  innovative approach. You know, some may say he was a
• 6:13
  cowboy, right? In a sense, you know, to direct
• 6:18
  delivery to the brain, but he was so compelling and a lot of
• 6:23
  the work that he had shared with me during our initial
• 6:25
  conversations looked really promising.
• 6:28
  I just thought, wow, you know, and, and, and also to be honest,
• 6:32
  at the time, the company was not in a good cash position.
• 6:35
  So it had it was just seed seated.
• 6:39
  It had less than six months of cash runway, good investors, SO5
• 6:44
  initial insiders, all top tier investors.
• 6:48
  But it was a bit of a it was definitely a risk and a gamble,
• 6:53
  but I really believed in what I heard and yeah, here I am.
• 6:56
  Yeah. Is that a big part of your
• 6:59
  decision making process in terms of the cash already in business
• 7:03
  when you were talking to these other styles so?
• 7:05
  Yeah, it's a good question. I think, you know, in the past I
• 7:07
  had, you know, talked to companies that are already
• 7:09
  Republic or maybe we're going for their B rounds.
• 7:12
  So this was probably the earliest stage company that I
• 7:16
  had spoke to that had only seen and really was critical to get a
• 7:20
  Series A like in the first six months of, you know, of joining.
• 7:25
  So I, for me, I had the kind of three kind of key areas that I
• 7:29
  was looking for. One is, you know, always first
• 7:31
  and foremost, is it a, you know, an area where there's a high
• 7:34
  unmet need that's compelling that I can feel passionate
• 7:37
  about? Like if I don't have it doesn't
• 7:39
  check that box. I, I just personally can't do
• 7:42
  it. So that was one.
• 7:43
  The second piece was, you know, who are the investors and are
• 7:47
  they committed? Because, you know, if they're
• 7:48
  not committed, you know, drug development takes a long time,
• 7:52
  right? Or it can take a long time.
• 7:53
  And so you want to make sure that what you're setting out to
• 7:56
  do from a mission perspective can, can be, at least initially.
• 7:59
  And you'll always, you know, macro environment changes.
• 8:01
  I get it, things happen with the science, but at least the
• 8:04
  intention of everybody at the table was there.
• 8:07
  So that was my criteria #2 And then the third piece of it was,
• 8:11
  you know, from a cultural perspective.
• 8:13
  And again, a small team at the time, I think there was less
• 8:16
  than 10 people here, but at least with the founders and, and
• 8:19
  the initial management and the, and the investors.
• 8:22
  Did I, did I click, you know, did I feel like culturally it
• 8:25
  was a good fit for me and would be a good, you know,
• 8:28
  opportunity? So that was kind of my, you
• 8:30
  know, kind of criteria when I, when I joined and it, it really
• 8:33
  did meet all of that. It was big risk from the cash
• 8:36
  run. I'm leaving, you know, a very
• 8:38
  safe role at Novartis where I had spent, as you mentioned,
• 8:42
  over 25 years and had a lot of personal, you know, equity,
• 8:46
  right? You know, from a reputation
• 8:48
  experience perspective to going into, you know, jumping into
• 8:52
  something completely maybe unstable, right.
• 8:55
  Yeah, Yeah, it was exciting at the same.
• 8:57
  Time. How was that like the the move
• 8:59
  for you? Yeah, it was the first month
• 9:01
  like, oh, what have I done? Noise.
• 9:03
  Was it pretty exciting? Yeah, You know, I thought it was
• 9:06
  really exciting. I don't know if it's for
• 9:08
  everybody, but I have never looked back from the day I left.
• 9:12
  I'm always, as mentioned, grateful for the time I spent on
• 9:15
  the big pharma side of the world.
• 9:17
  But from the moment I started, I haven't looked back and I I have
• 9:22
  found every experience look, you know, a great learning,
• 9:28
  exciting, very challenging at times, but I'm really enjoying
• 9:32
  it. I'm almost now four years in and
• 9:36
  it's, it's just been an incredible experience.
• 9:39
  So I think the, I think it depends the experiences you've
• 9:42
  had prior, right? So for me it was like, what can
• 9:45
  I leverage that I, you know, had spent my whole career prior
• 9:49
  learning, right? And I think coming from my last,
• 9:53
  you know, probably 10 / 10 years at Novartis, I was leading
• 9:57
  therapeutically focused, independent kind of business
• 10:01
  units or franchises. And so they were kind of end to
• 10:04
  end, right? So you know, from preclinical
• 10:07
  through commercialization and they were very much singular
• 10:10
  therapeutically focused. So it's was almost like a small
• 10:13
  independent therapeutically focused company, which is very
• 10:16
  transferable right to to Aviado. Of course, the things that were
• 10:21
  completely new was raising capital, right, and working with
• 10:24
  the venture groups and building a network and all of that.
• 10:27
  So that has been and still remains to be a tremendous
• 10:31
  learning. And of course then the macro
• 10:32
  environment changed significantly over the last four
• 10:35
  years, right. So navigating that is everyday
• 10:38
  learning, but I think, you know, I think it's been for me, I
• 10:43
  don't, I feel like the transition has been one of great
• 10:45
  learning, but all really positive.
• 10:48
  And I feel like a lot of the foundational principles that I
• 10:52
  gratefully have learned through my time at Novartis have really
• 10:56
  helped me navigate this whole world.
• 10:58
  Yeah, Yeah, Because you weren't necessarily in similar roles at
• 11:02
  Novartis. You moved around great for
• 11:04
  experience. I did.
• 11:05
  Yeah. And I and I also had the
• 11:06
  privilege to work globally both in, I've lived in Switzerland
• 11:10
  two different times. I've managed teams all over the
• 11:12
  world at Novartis. So I knew all the different
• 11:15
  markets whether it was from clinical development side, the
• 11:18
  commercialization side, the reimbursement regulatory
• 11:20
  etcetera. So, you know, when you work from
• 11:22
  a for a big pharma company like a Novartis, you have such
• 11:25
  exposure to so many different, you know, paths, disciplines,
• 11:31
  functions in the company. So you have breadth and depth
• 11:35
  which can really take you into lots of different opportunities
• 11:37
  from there. Yeah, amazing.
• 11:39
  And then you mentioned mission as well.
• 11:44
  Just talk us through your mission.
• 11:47
  And then also just just being in gene therapy, although amazing,
• 11:52
  it's in a tough space market wise right now.
• 11:54
  Just how that that relates as well?
• 11:57
  Yeah, maybe I'll start with the, the last part first because I
• 12:00
  think, you know, we would call them advanced therapies.
• 12:03
  So cell and gene therapies overall, I don't know if I, I
• 12:07
  would consider it a tough space. I think it's, it's getting a
• 12:09
  little bit of a, of a bad rap, right?
• 12:11
  But if you compare it to the biologic market, you know, in
• 12:16
  the 70s, right? And, and you think about how
• 12:19
  long it took for biologics to to be successfully developed, come
• 12:24
  into new therapeutic spaces like rheumatoid arthritis or Ms. or
• 12:28
  things like that and become blockbusters.
• 12:31
  It took decades versus we're still in a, you know, and in a
• 12:37
  decade really for the first, since the first launches and we
• 12:40
  have already 5 blockbusters in the space, right?
• 12:43
  So I think, I think, you know, at times of uncertainty in the
• 12:47
  macro environment, you know, etcetera, we have had some,
• 12:51
  some, you know, failures, unfortunately, which is normal
• 12:53
  in science. I think people get a little bit
• 12:55
  anxious, but I think really just to for context and to ground
• 12:59
  ourselves, I continue to remain very calm on this because and
• 13:02
  and try to level set everyone because in comparison, it's
• 13:06
  actually been moving along very quickly.
• 13:08
  What I do think is we need more commercial successes to, to get
• 13:13
  that investor confidence up. But from a patient perspective,
• 13:18
  I mean having again the privilege to launch a product
• 13:21
  like Solgensma and see the impact that it can have on an
• 13:25
  individual child, in that case the family, the community at
• 13:29
  large. I can tell you nothing in my
• 13:31
  entire career has compared to that.
• 13:34
  I had launched over 14 other products in the market in
• 13:37
  various capacities and my roles in Novartis, and there was
• 13:41
  nothing that was quite like that, right?
• 13:43
  And to see, you know, the difference you can truly make,
• 13:46
  not just symptomatically, but saving, in this case, a child's
• 13:50
  life and changing potentially their course of their entire
• 13:53
  life, it's like it's a wow. And so I really still believe
• 13:58
  that cell and gene therapies are our future.
• 14:00
  They're maybe hit a few bumps, but we really have to stay true
• 14:04
  and we have to continually remind ourselves these things
• 14:06
  take time. You know, from a, from an Aviado
• 14:10
  perspective, our mission is to is to develop and translate, you
• 14:14
  know, groundbreaking science and couple that with precision
• 14:17
  delivery, while whether that's direct delivery or novel
• 14:21
  capsids, etcetera, and really turn those into life changing
• 14:24
  medicines for people living with neurological conditions.
• 14:26
  And so that's our North Star. We really focused on that every
• 14:30
  day, all day. We try to use that to make
• 14:32
  decisions strategically on, you know, should we do this or that
• 14:36
  What is what are the things should we look at our pipeline,
• 14:39
  be on our lead program and really try that.
• 14:42
  I think is the hardest part is having the discipline to to
• 14:45
  really continuously assess what did you set out to do and make
• 14:52
  decisions that really align to that.
• 14:54
  Yeah, cuz you can go off in so many different.
• 14:56
  Directions, definitely, yeah, but let's talk about what you've
• 14:58
  achieved so far as well. Like what?
• 15:00
  What's the journey you guys have been on?
• 15:04
  Yeah. So you know, so from the start,
• 15:06
  our lead program is an FTD frontal temporal dementia, which
• 15:11
  is unfortunately one of the most common forms of dementia in
• 15:14
  people under the age of 65 S very different than you think
• 15:19
  about Alzheimer's or things like this.
• 15:21
  This really effects people in the prime of their lives.
• 15:24
  I've we've met 2030 year olds, 50 year olds and so people who
• 15:27
  are really, you know, still working or just starting out,
• 15:31
  etcetera. And it does man older as well,
• 15:34
  but you know, the crux of it is there.
• 15:36
  And so and it, it's very uncharacteristic to what you
• 15:40
  think about when you think about Alzheimer's, which is more
• 15:42
  cognitive impairment or memory loss, right?
• 15:44
  Initially these people have either trouble communicating or
• 15:48
  have behavioral changes that are you almost, it takes you think
• 15:52
  there's going through something psychological or having a
• 15:55
  midlife crisis or something. So it takes them so long to get
• 15:57
  diagnosed. So anyway, we've done a lot of
• 15:59
  work in FTD in general just trying to educate and, and
• 16:03
  provide that context. But we moved our programs.
• 16:06
  So from when I joined the company, we had just some in
• 16:09
  vivo data proof, some preclinical data, non GLP and
• 16:14
  we, you know, had to raise Series A off of that.
• 16:16
  We at the end of 2021, we raised the Series A of 80 million and
• 16:21
  that really enabled us to get the program now into the clinic.
• 16:24
  So last year, about a year ago exactly we treated our very
• 16:27
  first patient. Now we're well on our way to
• 16:30
  completing our second cohort of patients.
• 16:33
  And so you know it's really exciting.
• 16:36
  I mean we have a complete novel direct delivery differentiated
• 16:40
  approach. We've treated the first ever
• 16:42
  intrathalmic delivery in adults. Scary, right, extremely scary,
• 16:50
  but but really exciting. And so far like knock on wood
• 16:53
  because you know, but so far so good.
• 16:55
  And and so we're really excited about the opportunity, the
• 16:58
  difference that we can make in the space.
• 16:59
  There are no therapeutics today to treat these these fat, these
• 17:03
  patients, these families. We're looking at a monogenic
• 17:06
  form. So it is a genetic condition.
• 17:09
  And so we're very actively engaged in the community.
• 17:11
  So that's kind of on our lead. So, you know, we've, we've built
• 17:14
  the company from, you know, at that time 10 people to now 60.
• 17:19
  We've raised money, we've gotten our lead program into the
• 17:22
  clinic. And then we continue to evolve
• 17:24
  our pipeline and think about, OK, what's next And how can we
• 17:27
  continue to bring therapeutics, you know, to patients in need
• 17:31
  and at the same time, you know, enhance value for shareholders
• 17:35
  and and build a sustainable, you know, organization and culture.
• 17:39
  Yeah. And what are you looking forward
• 17:41
  to in the future? Yeah.
• 17:43
  So you know, we have some really exciting milestones coming on
• 17:47
  our lead program, which is our aspired trial.
• 17:50
  So as I think I mentioned, we are coming to the completion of
• 17:54
  our second cohort. And so we'll be sharing some of
• 17:56
  that data, you know, publicly really soon.
• 18:00
  But also, you know, one thing I forgot to mention before when
• 18:03
  you asked about some of the things we've achieved, we have a
• 18:07
  really exciting partnership with Estella.
• 18:10
  So in October of last year, we announced announced a an
• 18:14
  opportunity to collaborate with the Stellas and they have a
• 18:17
  worldwide exclusive option on our lead program in FTD.
• 18:23
  And so with that comes along, you know, at the opportunity to
• 18:27
  work with them really collaboratively in the space
• 18:30
  during this option period. And we were able to bring in,
• 18:34
  you know, some financial capital.
• 18:35
  So they they put in about 50 million in cash in combination
• 18:39
  of of dilutive and non dilutive. So they've also become investors
• 18:43
  in Aviado and we just really see that as a really exciting
• 18:47
  partnership potentially for the future should they exercise the
• 18:51
  option. So, you know, they're very
• 18:54
  invested in genetic medicines. We feel it's a good fit
• 18:56
  culturally. We're very much aligned on the
• 18:58
  opportunity and the differences we can make together.
• 19:01
  And so, yeah, I think, you know, continuing to advance the lead
• 19:05
  program, sharing that, you know, those outcomes, you know, from a
• 19:10
  from a milestone standpoint even with the rest of the world, as
• 19:13
  well as you know, really continuing to work with Estelas
• 19:16
  and collaborate with them not only in FTD but potentially more
• 19:19
  broadly as we go. Yeah, amazing.
• 19:21
  Yeah, it's seriously exciting. I'm glad you, I just mentioned
• 19:23
  culture because that's my next question.
• 19:26
  We spoke mindset culture actually just before we jumped
• 19:29
  on this. They're clearly important to you
• 19:31
  and trying to build this company sustainably.
• 19:34
  I'm just going to ask you broadly like how you distill
• 19:39
  that culture and and your mindset across this, this
• 19:43
  growing business. Yeah, it's a great question.
• 19:46
  And I always think of culture as an outcome.
• 19:49
  To me, culture is kind of how people feel, how they feel about
• 19:53
  being part of something, how they behave and act in that
• 19:56
  environment. Now, sometimes you have to think
• 19:59
  of culture as purposely, right? Like how do you build the
• 20:02
  culture you want, right? And, and especially in a new
• 20:05
  organization or, or sometimes when you need a correction of an
• 20:08
  organization, you kind of think of culture.
• 20:10
  Think of it top down, but I always try to think about a
• 20:14
  bottoms up, right? How do we hire the right talent?
• 20:16
  Starts with the right people, with the right mindset who are
• 20:19
  truly coming together, believe in the mission that we're
• 20:22
  setting out to do, come together with a real will and sense of
• 20:26
  urgency and passion around that mission and really want to work
• 20:30
  together and collaborate. So, you know, I think about it
• 20:33
  as, you know, hiring the right talent, setting the right vision
• 20:37
  and making sure that we can't, we constantly remind ourselves
• 20:41
  of why we're here because I think you can, you know, in the
• 20:43
  everyday hustle and bustle chaos that we of the world we live in,
• 20:46
  you can you can lose track of that.
• 20:48
  Yeah. And so for me, it's always about
• 20:51
  anchoring us around the patient and the families and the
• 20:55
  communities that we can make a difference on.
• 20:56
  And I feel like if that's where everybody can align, whether
• 20:59
  you're, you know, working in facility management or
• 21:03
  manufacturing or in the lab or a business development, everyone
• 21:08
  should be anchored and aligned on that common goal.
• 21:11
  And so I really look for that mindset in, in people because
• 21:14
  then it's less about, well, I do this and you do this, right?
• 21:17
  I hate that. To me, you know, if you're at
• 21:20
  the table, you are part of the conversation, whether it's your
• 21:24
  swim lane or not, when you leave, you have to go out and
• 21:26
  you have to execute your swim lane.
• 21:28
  And, and that's why we have functional expertise, right?
• 21:31
  But when you come to the table, if you're invited to be at the
• 21:33
  table, then you should be contributing, You should be part
• 21:36
  of that conversation. You should be asking questions.
• 21:38
  And I, I really feel a big part of the culture is making sure
• 21:42
  that people work collaboratively, making sure
• 21:45
  everybody again, is anchored on that mission and those
• 21:47
  foundational principles and making sure that people are just
• 21:52
  inquisitive and, you know, curious, provocative, and, you
• 21:55
  know, thinking about what would need to be true to actually do
• 21:58
  this right. Because there's a lot of that
• 22:00
  can't be done right. That drives me crazy.
• 22:03
  And I really strive to build a culture where people ask
• 22:06
  themselves that question. They, everyone will.
• 22:08
  I, I learned this from one of my previous leaders.
• 22:11
  It's just a question I always ask myself.
• 22:13
  And I, you know, try to instill that in the culture here.
• 22:17
  We're not there yet. Not everybody loves that
• 22:18
  question, to be honest. But I think it's a critical
• 22:21
  question. And if you think about it that
• 22:23
  way, then it takes the emotion or the defense out of like
• 22:26
  saying, well, no, that can't be done.
• 22:28
  That wasn't the question. The question was what would need
• 22:30
  to be true to enable that to be done?
• 22:32
  Because then you can you build a little psychological safety into
• 22:35
  that, right? So I think hiring the right
• 22:37
  people, making sure they're anchored around a clear vision
• 22:41
  and mission, and building that kind of psychological safety and
• 22:44
  curiosity to achieve things that, you know, quite frankly
• 22:47
  are really difficult and that people, most people don't think
• 22:51
  are possible, right? And so, yeah, I think if you
• 22:54
  have that together, you can really build a thriving culture.
• 22:57
  Yeah, because your your goals are so big as a company, like
• 23:00
  what you're setting out to achieve is like world changing.
• 23:04
  So then breaking that down to that, you're not looking so far
• 23:08
  into the distance of the wild that's so far away to bring it
• 23:11
  down into those little winds. And patience in the shorter term
• 23:15
  is surely pretty important. Yeah, I agree 100.
• 23:21
  Percent, we briefly mentioned it before, the current market is
• 23:24
  making it. Well it's been turbulent, right.
• 23:27
  So it's making early start up biotechs that little bit harder
• 23:33
  than what it was probably like 4 years ago.
• 23:35
  And how are you changing your strategy to maybe coincide that?
• 23:40
  Yeah, it's a great question. It's an everyday activity to be
• 23:44
  honest, not changing the strategy, but just navigating
• 23:47
  the macro environment. So you know, I think I, I would
• 23:51
  say this, whether we were in a tough macro environment or we
• 23:54
  were not in a tough macro environment, I think we always
• 23:56
  have to be really prudent on spend.
• 23:59
  I operated like that at Novartis and I obviously you have to
• 24:03
  operate that even with an extra layer in a company like, you
• 24:06
  know, Aviado or any, any biotech startup.
• 24:10
  I think just being really prudent, making sure you're
• 24:13
  finding the right balance of cash preservation at the same
• 24:17
  time progression, right? Because if you don't progress
• 24:20
  the programs and you're only saving money, then you're not
• 24:22
  and you know, not doing anything accretive, right, or adding
• 24:25
  value to your, to your shareholders and ultimately not
• 24:28
  getting anything to patients, right?
• 24:30
  So that goes against our entire mission, right?
• 24:32
  But that doesn't mean that we don't we're not very prudent on
• 24:36
  cash management and making sure that we're only spending things
• 24:40
  that will make a difference and drive progression.
• 24:42
  So I'll always ask as well, you know, if we didn't do this, what
• 24:45
  would happen and if we did do this, what would happen?
• 24:48
  And depending on the answer, we either do it or we don't do it,
• 24:50
  right? What's the must have versus the
• 24:52
  nice to have? And is, is doing this going to
• 24:54
  really impact, you know, a better program, a better
• 24:57
  clinical decision, a better impact for a patient, you know,
• 25:00
  a better value for a shareholder, etcetera.
• 25:03
  So just being really disciplined and prudent about that, you
• 25:06
  know, we've had to pivot our our pipeline strategy.
• 25:10
  You know, there's there was data that came out in the macro
• 25:13
  environment that gave us a lot of question about some of the
• 25:16
  targets we were looking at. At the same time, we had some
• 25:19
  our own internal data that raised some questions.
• 25:21
  So even though we were passionate about some of those
• 25:24
  programs, we pause them because, you know, and we couldn't look
• 25:28
  ourselves in the mirror and say it makes sense to keep going
• 25:31
  until we know more. And so, you know, we've, we've,
• 25:34
  we've made some of those tough decisions and you know, those
• 25:37
  are tough not only to do, but on the people who have a lot of
• 25:40
  heart and passion for them, as well as the patients who are
• 25:43
  waiting, right. So, and then you then you have
• 25:45
  to pivot and say, OK, what else should we be doing that's
• 25:47
  aligned to our mission and based on our expertise and
• 25:50
  capabilities? So it's an everyday, I would say
• 25:53
  being, you know, agile and being open minded and you know, and
• 25:58
  just, you know, continually, continuously being well
• 26:01
  disciplined is an everyday management, you know.
• 26:04
  Opportunity, I think it's been interesting.
• 26:06
  I think you think about it every day makes so much sense because
• 26:10
  I remember it like the start of 24, I was talking to CE OS and
• 26:15
  their mindset was just survive till 25.
• 26:17
  I heard that so often survive till 25, but then this has gone
• 26:21
  on longer than what people anticipated.
• 26:23
  So it's no longer that statement.
• 26:25
  It's now like, well we looking at 26 now, so having to
• 26:30
  constantly adapt. Yeah.
• 26:32
  And I and I think the principles are relevant regardless whether
• 26:36
  we're in a tough macro environment or not.
• 26:37
  I think we should use them as learnings, right, because you
• 26:41
  should always ask yourself those questions.
• 26:43
  At times you have to make more sacrifice than you would like to
• 26:46
  when, when times are less tough. But just having the discipline
• 26:50
  are, are great learnings for all of us.
• 26:52
  You know, as we come out of this, right, the pandemic taught
• 26:54
  us how to do a lot more remotely and, and we navigated that and,
• 26:58
  and you know, what are the learnings?
• 27:00
  The tough macro environment, finance, you know, the economic
• 27:02
  environment has taught us that we take with us as we go forward
• 27:05
  as well. And so I think these are always,
• 27:08
  you know, new, new tools that we put in our, you know, you know,
• 27:11
  in our, in our, as our part of our, the way we, we think about
• 27:14
  our businesses and run them. Yeah, I think it's really
• 27:16
  interesting. Just moving on to the final
• 27:19
  question, which is 1. We ask all our guests, OK, So if
• 27:24
  you could meet with any scientist or innovator for
• 27:27
  dinner, past or present, OK, who would it be and why?
• 27:31
  That's an easy one for me. So you know, Professor Chris
• 27:35
  Shaw, who is one of the main scientific Co founders of Aviado
• 27:39
  is somebody that I well have had dinner with and would love to
• 27:42
  continue to have dinner with. He's just a brilliant man.
• 27:47
  So neurologist, neuroscientist by training, but really for me
• 27:51
  with Chris, his passion is and his, his, you know, his, his
• 27:58
  kind of goal to bring a therapeutic to patients in
• 28:01
  which, as he says, generations of patients that he's met
• 28:05
  through his career has just really been his North Star.
• 28:09
  And you know, when I, when I met him, when I first met him, it's
• 28:13
  the reason I came to Aviado. You know, he just spoke to me
• 28:16
  like he pulled up my heartstrings and I really
• 28:18
  believed what he could do because of the passion, less so
• 28:23
  because of his brilliance. Of course it's there and his
• 28:25
  technical abilities. Absolutely.
• 28:27
  But when you see such a will to make a difference, you believe
• 28:31
  that person will will have the power to do it.
• 28:34
  And so, you know, in addition to that, he's just extremely
• 28:38
  interesting person. He loves the most music.
• 28:41
  He's, you know, he's from New Zealand originally and, and
• 28:43
  just, you know, fun and social to be around.
• 28:46
  But, you know, for me, just seeing that kind of passion
• 28:51
  combined with that kind of brilliance, it's just somebody
• 28:54
  that, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm thrilled to have met him.
• 28:57
  I feel it's been an honor and yeah, enjoy very much spending
• 29:02
  time with. It it's such a good answer,
• 29:04
  Yeah. But thank you so much for coming
• 29:05
  on, inviting me down here. Thank you for coming.
• 29:08
  I'm so glad you were here and that we appreciate being able to
• 29:11
  share some of our story. Yeah, it's a pleasure.
• 29:14
  Everyone please like and subscribe to the Bio Hub and
• 29:16
  thank you again. Thank you.