Latest / Accidental Bible Scholar / Raising Morally Mature Disciples: First-Time Obedience and Practical Tools (Part 2)
Transcript
- Jeff Ward: Hello, this is Jeff Ward. Welcome back to the Accidental Bible Scholar podcast. This is part two of our parenting podcast and episode 39. As you know, we recorded for about an hour ten, so we decided to split the podcast into two parts. Thanks for joining us. We're glad you're listening. If you have any questions, remember you're welcome to email us at contact at accidental biblescholar.com. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, iHeartRadio, YouTube, that has video, and I think Apple's going to come out with videos soon. Every Thursday we release another episode. You can go to our website at www.accidentalbiblescholar.com. That'll get an email and all or you can find a link to our email as well as all of the podcasts laid out nice and neat. Well, thanks for joining us. Let's roll back in to parenting podcast part two. Randy: And here's the one I've repeated several times at the start is we want to teach how to do right, but we also want to teach why to do right. And that will change as I grow too. The why for a a one-year-old's probably can't even be explained. The two, three, maybe, and certainly by three and four, we start talking about loving others and that kind of thing. Because our goal is not to get them our goal was not to lower the tension in the home. Our goal was not to get through the day with this you know, with as little stress as possible. Yeah. Our goal is, remember, is this self assured disciple of Christ that can govern themselves and call right, right, and do right and wrong wrong and do wrong. Right? Mm-hmm. So When I have a moral reason why let me say some things that it forces me to know the reason why as a parent. You're like, well duh. So if I am not going to make a rule except for the ones that I have to explain that I can explain the moral reason behind them, then I'm just not gonna make a rule. I actually my rules go down some. And my rules now become very consistent. So some people, some parents might make a rule that don't do this because it irritates me. And they wouldn't say these words out loud, maybe. And on Wednesday it irritates me, so I come down hard on you. But on Thursday, I have a little more energy, didn't have a s quite a bad day at work, or maybe had the day off, so it doesn't irritate me, so I'll let you go with it. I'm not gonna come down hard and may even let you keep doing whatever I told you you couldn't do yesterday. And then Friday, who knows what Friday's gonna do? And it's this up down inconsistency. So having a moral reason why assures me the reason I'm making rules is because there are moral reasons behind it. so it forces me to have a good reason to have a rule, not to arbitrary. It also prev presi provides some resolve, okay? Yeah. So if I have a moral reason why and I see them violating something, I don't go, yeah, I just let go. I don't have the energy to deal with it. No, it gives the resolve they go, Nope. Right. I'm gonna stop this, make it stop now, redirect it, educate, and then go on. And the good news is once I do it consistently, for an amount of time I don't have to do it anymore. I was about to say that provides consistency. Yes. And it's easy for a kid, like we said earlier, just if it's consistent, we can we can they can do it. They don't have to wonder is dad gonna be mad about this now or yeah. By having a moral reason why I we kinda already said this, but I'll say it again. I about but here The standard does not change based on temperament, mood, situation. Okay. Context matters, but the application doesn't. For instance, talk about the running. The context of running in church, it's not, I'm not talking about running specifically. I'm talking about the principle of loving others and being considerate to others. Leviticus says that we're to honor the elderly. Well, right there, you're not honoring the elderly if you're scaring them. as you're weaving in and out of them at 100 miles an hour. Okay? And then I can stop that boom. Right away. Okay, we walk, explain why we walk here. And then what what you'll find is at a very low level of intensity, you solve that problem. You also ex you put in their heart. You're shape not just shaping their heart their running behavior, you're shaping their heart. And then you might have to remind a few times, but eventually they're not gonna run in church. And they know they're not doing that so they can love those around and then we talked about but running on the ball field or in the backyard, yeah, w we're not against running, we're just against not being lovable to folks. So Again, this is just an example of you add that little bit extra effort and you're now shaping the heart, not just the behavior, and you're and you're doing thinking and doing it long term. So it in the end, it's or at the end of the day, you're it's less effort and you have more energy to to to interact with your child more appropriately or on a positive note. I already mentioned this, but here's my notes one more time. Always approve of and love your child. We can disapprove of their behavior, but we always approve and love them. Does that make sense? Yeah. I know it does to you. Questions or comments or additions? They never doubt mom or dad loves them. Right. Like that's not a question. Exactly. And remember we said we're not going to hold that over them as a means to make affect the behavior. Yeah. Because we're we don't we care about the havior, but we really care about their heart. Right. Right? Yeah. A tool to do that, one of the tools I'm gonna talk to here and then we'll be about done, I think. But one of the tools I'm gonna talk to that I talked to as in the overview is first time obedience. First time I read that I go, that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard because it's like impossible. Right. But that's not true. It is not impossible. There is a line in the sand where you do get obedience. Yeah. Period. There's an intensity level. There's a number of times you have to tell and they know where the line is. Yeah. You may not know but you kinda know. Yeah. All you gotta do is just move the line. Mm-hmm. And then consistency will will take over and the line will be there. You can have the line at one time. Hey, go go clean up your room. Or you can have the line at being told five times that go clean your room, spaced over thirty minutes, with the last four being at a very high volume and you're mad and your you know, your stress level's through the roof. Right. All you have to do, you get to pick where the line is. Just make the line after the first one. Yeah. That's it. And your kid will go, I know where the line is. Which reminds me of I don't have an example right now, but if you say it you better follow through. Yeah. If you if you say, Hey, I want you to do this, be prepared to make that happen then. Yeah. Don't just flippantly say it. No. Which is easy to do. Yes. Or to Yeah. Is it you better be ready to follow through with what you said. Yes. And follow through is easy when you know the moral reason why. Right. And you know you're establishing where the line is. Yep. Those two things makes yes follow through so easy. Yes. Right? And consistency. Yeah. I mean, I know I'm saying it here at one G and zero knots, but and with you were a pilot? Yeah. Yeah. And with kids at thir In their thirties. Yes. Okay, I got it. I know. Yeah. But but we did our best to do a lot of this in our in our home. And we learned things. We weren't perfect at it. Yeah. God was graceful to us about it. Our kids were graceful to us about it. And but we we were successfully in a very short order when we started got this concept. We were able to move our line very quick very to one, hey, go do this, and they went and did it. At a very low intensity. It brings a level of peace to your house. Mm-hmm. And like you said, if you know the reason why and you know your goal is to establish the line, your resolve is easy at that point. Right. Your consistency is easy. You know, okay, yeah, I'll get it. But you know what? Over time it's a much easier way to run your home than the stress stressful level. Right. Angela occasionally she Maybe we'll cut this part out, but and so she didn't hear it. But you occasionally she would get a little worked up and I would say and get frustrated. Well, she's been with them all day long. I got that. Yeah. and and she's dealing with them at a level I'm not. And I would say I would just have to remind her, get action with action, not your words. So once you give the word and they don't do it, you want an action, give an action, whether it's a punishment, a timeout. taking something away, you know, when they were really little we we spanked on the b behind a few times. but you know, don't use your intensity of your voice to get it done. Right. use action to get action. And it doesn't take just a few times of even that before everybody knows where the line is. Everybody knows a not to cross it. And I'm not saying you won't be challenged a few times but but and then there's peace in the home. Yeah. Here's an agreement. This is a different word. You and your child have an agreement. I'm already this is a different way of saying it. The agreement is what level of intensity and what how many and level intensity the parental commands have to reach before compliance is required. Right. That's very true. It is and and we've all seen it in the grocery store or wherever you see the mom count or whatever happens. Yeah. So all I'm saying here is just move it down to one time. Yeah. Instead of many times. Move it down to just a spoken command instead of the Wah you know. Yeah. Yeah. Or you see a dad or mom say something and then the kid doesn't do it. I mean, don't even flinch sometimes. And then you're just like, Well, that kid's learning. Yeah, I don't need to listen to that one. Yeah, and one one ear not the other. Hey, wait a minute, come back to me when you get to the level that I know I need to listen to. Right. yeah. And and your children know the level. You may not know the level, but you kinda know it. But their children know exactly where it is. Yeah, and you can watch them like you said. a couple of things maybe of saying the same I said you want add peace to your home, here's what you do. Have a rock solid reason for each rule and command based on God's moral law. Don't make a rule or issue a command unless you're willing to enforce it. That's what you just said. And expect your child to be obedient on the first try at the low intensity level. Yeah. That's That'd be worth the price of admission, just that just that thing right there. and you and your spouse on the same sheet of music. Yeah. I w I'll tell you a couple of things to just add to this. You know, nobody, even a child, doesn't like to be interrupted. You're in the middle of something and you're, you know, getting making progress on some project or you're enjoying something. You don't like to be abruptly interrupted. Nobody does. Or your child doesn't either. So we can build in little things like, okay, hey, honey, it's gonna be time to bed in five minutes. So in five minutes I'm gonna set a timer. When that timer goes off, we're gonna clean up and go to bed. Right. Hey, there you go. Five minutes. That's a long time to a kid. And start your timer. That way you don't have to track it. And then be timer goes up. Okay, timer's up. Time for bed. We're gonna clean it up. you know, so give a heads up. Also make sure the line is fully defined and then enforce it. That's kind of what we've already been saying. Yeah. some other one-liners. Expect immediate and complete response. Okay, it's more about it's more about your mindset than your child's. It really is. Keep context in mind. Context is like running in church versus running. You know, there may be a rule that's enforced that is applies somewhere, but because of the moral reason why it doesn't apply somewhere else, keep that in mind and keep teach that to your child. The context that doesn't matter though is whether they're tired or not, whether they're hungry or not. You know, I mean if they're hungry, feed them. Obviously they're tired and they need to go to re to get rest. Whether they have a good day bad day, whether you've had a good or bad day. Hey, right is right even if it's right before dinner time. Yeah. Okay. Right is right even as you're coming off the ball field and you haven't had your snack yet or whatever, if your blood sugar's low. It it It's forcing us to have right or rules based on moral law and those don't change. And you're even there, you're teaching your child self-control. You're teaching them, well, you know, I can't spout off to my spouse just 'cause I feel, you know, tired or had a bad day or those kinds of things. You're teaching these things that are very valuable as they go forward. that's all I have. I'm gonna I'm gonna end where we started, and you can throw in anything you want here. But what we said was have an explain the moral reason why for all your rules. your training to moral maturity, you're training the heart. it filters some of the rules you might make, and it energizes your ability to enforce them. And then in the area of first-time obedience, you have a line or level where where you get obedience. You do. So why not just lower it down to a low intensity level where there's peaceful low stress for both you and the child. Yeah. That's kinda what first time obedience is. Yeah. And you can make it work. And if you ha don't have first time obedience now, it's gonna take kind of some readjusting for you and your child. But start today and it'll be done. I'd say seventy five percent by tomorrow or twenty four hours. Right. And then it might take a week before, you know, something else. But we're talking about something that can happen fairly quickly and lower the stress level in your home forever. Do you anything to add or questions or thoughts? in a Ephesians six four, it says, Fathers do not provoke your children to anger. Or I think another version says exasperate your kids. And one of those is just a if I understood it right, try to follow it was just give c they have clear expectations and they're not wondering what's coming next, which I've said before, right? They just know what is expected and it's clear and they know what happens if they do it or don't do it. Right. There's a lot there in you know, to not exasperate them, yeah. Yeah. Or or invoke so inconsistency. Yeah. It does that a lot. It does. the and I not just mean the enforcement of the rules inconsistent, but your rules being in c arbitrary rules that apply one day and don't apply the next, that's going to frustrate or exasperate your children. Yeah. I will say something here too. It mentions fathers there and not mothers. Yeah. I Yeah, this goes back to what we were saying about the in a couple lessons ago about the husband being the head of the head of the family. we as fathers when we step in, it I I don't mean to say this in any other way except for it's just a fact and it's a biblical fact and a biblical truth. You carry more weight as a father than the mother does. Not because you care less. I'm not saying anything not because mother is is not a better parent than you. But when you care, the kids seem to care even more. and I don't know if it's expectations. I don't know if if the mom is so in tune that they just know she cares. And when the dad that we talked about earlier that has a kind of a tendency toward independence, a tendency toward being focused on on his work and providing for the family. So when he comes out of that and gets involved, it's it's leveraged. It's a geared effect. So if you put an effort of one, you're g you might get a an output of three. Whereas mom might put an effort of one and she gets output of one. And it's has nothing to do with value. It has to do with some kind of built in spiritual authority that the Lord has designed within us. It has nothing to do with value, nothing to do with anything. My encouragement is is not anything saying anything derogatory toward moms. Moms are the thing the clue that hold us all together. Yes. But the point is, dad, get involved. Be involved. It's not your wife's problem. It's your problem. Yeah, that's good. It's so step in and be a dad and like feet six four, where you're the one addressed. You're the one that's now has the command. You're the one that now has the responsibility. Yeah. at the end of the day or the accountability. Yeah. At the end of the day. And I know too, it was big for us. Christy wanted when she said something, she wanted me to help enforce it. Especially the end of the day. When she's whooped. Mm you know, she's been wrestling all day. And they're whooped and tired. you know, she says something and sometimes I'd come home and she'd say something like, Woo, she's a little she's fired up. She's fired up. You know, she's like, well, I you haven't been with them all day. And I'm and my job, I think, is to enforce what she just said. absolutely. And make sure that they understand. You'll listen to your mama and me. But you know what I'm saying? Is that's good to Let me help you listen to your mother. Yeah. Yeah. And you know and what a relief that is to her. Yeah. And and what points you're scoring as a husband there. Right. Not that we're looking for points, but you're you're genuinely loving her by doing that. Exactly. And you know, like you said, they've heard Commands for mom all day. Right. And to have you go, Yep, I'm on board with that. Do it. And you even step in sometimes if they're real little and and help them do it or make them do it. Yeah. Yeah, it's huge. Yep. Some of that is the geared effect just by who's been around them all day, you know, and and the idea that that Mom and Dad are on the same sheet of music. That's huge. Yes. There's no playing one against the other. Yes. you know, and that's hard for dad sometimes. 'Cause you haven't seen him all day. So you want to walk in and be the hammer. Yeah, you it's hard. You want to be on their side, right? Not because you're against mom, but because you haven't seen all day and you want you know, you wanna play with them for a lot. Well, if it's already past that time, and in the air force we got home late sometimes, right? Right. And sometimes you come home right at bedtime and you're like, you know, you you you would like to go easy on but Don't, you know, follow mom's lead. She needs your help. Yes. That's very true. Yeah, and it and it's good for your children too. It's there's no gap between me and mom. Me and mom, you know, are a hundred percent aligned with each other and there is no room between us to get in between and and play one off on the other. Yeah. they'll see that a heartbeat, right? yeah. They just slip right in. And if you're gonna tell your kids, you know, mom and I are one flesh, we're staying together, you don't have to worry about that, that's another way you can be united. They don't have to wonder. Yeah. Yeah. Even though they know ask dad some things, ask mom some things. That's okay. I get you know, you want cake, you better ask dad. Mom knows what you've eaten all day. If you want a cookie, your better chances, dad. Yeah, and then once he says yes, mom's my you go, Well, Dad already said yes, so yeah, I guess you can. Now she's already asked mom and gotta know that was that's probably a line that they crossed. But yeah. It's fun thinking back on that. Uhhuh. All right. there's a lot in Proverbs I know about raising your kids, some very practical things. Yeah. What about train a child in the way he should go and when he's old he will not depart from it? Mm hmm. Is that a spiritual law? Is that a generalization? This might be hard to answer right now. Yeah. I've heard both. I'm not sure I have an opinion. Yeah. I am mostly of the opinion if God wrote it down it's a spiritual law or or maybe not a spiritual law but it's a truth with a capital T. Yep. spiritual laws maybe have a little bit of different there's kind of a but that would be maybe an if then. And then here's here's what I I'm reluctant to come off of that. The reason I'm reluctant to go, yeah, that's more of a principle. Right. That's more of a thing that usually is right. Right. And I will I will contend or I will agree that the child has a say has a choice, right? The cho the child can make a decision to not follow the Lord, even if they've been raised in it. Yeah. And I'm not gonna go, well, that's not the child's fault, that's the or who is now an adult, that's the parents' fault. I'm not going there at all. Right. But I'm also very reluctant to take a look at something God's word says and then to look over here in the physical realm and say those don't match. Yeah. And then go, I must understood God's word wrong. So I will re word, re-ricker, throw it in a different pile. Instead of the pile of truth, I'll throw it in the pile of a general principle of some sort. So I'm reluctant to do that. Right. I do can I do I will acknowledge that I see In the real world with my eyes and with my senses, you can see where that doesn't seem to be true. Yeah. But I'm but I'm not willing to take that and go, that it's just not it's just a sometimes sort of it's not a promise. Right. once you go down that trail, it's hard to come back from. Yeah. It's hard to know where you go where you go on This I'll use the senses in the physical realm to override this. principle or this truth. Yeah. But over here, no, I I'm not gonna go against that. You know, this is the truth here, it's not a principle. So I I tend to hold to to that. Also can I simultaneously not blame the parents? Yes I can. 'Cause the the child still has a free will. There's still a lot of things lots of other truths that go alongside that that may seem contradictory and I've just chose a long time ago that if I s The Bible teaches two things and they seem to be in contradictory. I just take them both as truth. Yeah. And I don't necessarily want to go, this one's subordinate to that one or not true. Yeah, I gotta dumb this one down so it fits the other one. Yeah. we've had that discussion on these podcasts before. Yeah. But yeah, that's a that's that's a a an interesting one. Yeah. so what I would say is train up your child in the way you should go. Yeah. With the Holy Spirit. Yeah. Teaming up with the Holy Spirit, teaming up with God's Word. And then they have a choice to make. Yeah. And if the choice goes different than their training, then you know, keep praying for me. Yeah. Which we already talked about. Yeah, we already talked about that. That has not been well, I don't know if it'll be released by this one or not, but maybe it's recorded. Yeah. if not, it will be released shortly after this one. Yeah. Yeah, there's hope in that verse. Mm-hmm. In that truth. Yeah. that if we raise them, mm-hmm, at least our chances are way higher of them following the Lord and so there's hope and trust there. I would say one of the things when you're training up your child, the biggest thing the child I'd say one of the most important things is authenticity. Yeah. Admitting you're wrong. And your talk and your walk matching. Yes. I think so many times we our talk and our walk doesn't match and they see right through that. Sure. So you're training them up to something else. Well, they're probably gonna match our walk more than our talk. Yes. They believe your walk. Yes. Much, much more than your talk. Yes. And so they're I don't know that the cases where somebody made a decision they say, Well, they were trained right. Well, they might have been trained right by the talk, but maybe the walk wasn't there. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not pointing blame anywhere. I'm just saying there's there's yeah there's other ways to explain that than go, what the God's Word says is only kind of light guidance. Sure. Yeah. And I'm just not willing to do that. Yeah. Like tithing. Yeah. My kids tithe and I've not told them a million times, you must tithe, you must tithe, but they know we do because we talk about it sometimes. My dad talks about it and why he started tithing. Yeah. His testimony of why I started tithing and how the Lord's blessed that. Yeah. And you know, this is where this is what God's word said and this is exactly how it happened in my life. Yeah. So they know from my dad and from me about tithing and the importance of giving. Yeah. And so they do it. And I didn't have to tell a million times, they just do it. And I'm not saying Woo, look at me. No. Just that that part of my walk was passed to them Intentionally and almost unintentionally. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like we don't talk about it every night. Yeah. But so a lot of that, yeah, it's all your walk. Your walk matters. Yeah. So much more than your talk. And when they're lined together, that's where it's the most powerful. Yeah. When the husbands and wife talk walk or line together with each other, it's even more powerful. Yes. And the other thing I thought is, yeah, there's you said it there's a million God's grace is huge. Mm-hmm. And if you're putting some effort, I think that effort is so multiplied. Mm-hmm. And if you're putting some effort into this parenting and doing the things you said, it will be so multiplied into them. yeah. I mean his grace will cover your s your miscues or when you misspeak and then like you said when you apologize or whatever. Mm-hmm. God's grace, the kids are forgiving. Right. God's forgiving and yeah. Your kids don't expect you to be perfect, but they certainly expect and appreciate when you're authentic. Right. You know? Right. Hey man, yeah, I messed up here. I said this and I did this. Yeah. That's not right. And I apologize for that. Yeah. stuff. Yep. Okay. Anything else? No sir. All right. Thanks, Randy. You guys have a great day.