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REWIND: Close But No NBA Star​ · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to another uh fabulous edition of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Today we will be uh reminiscing about the uh good old days.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna set the uh time machine back to 2002, 2003, see what was going on.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh George Bush was president.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh 9-11 was still fresh in our memories, unfortunately.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Pit Basketball had all of a sudden become relevant on the national stage.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Who knew the wonderful days and high-heady days of uh Ben Holland and uh Brandon Knight.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna go through uh probably their most successful season uh of that early rendition of the Pit Panthers.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just to uh do some background on Pitt Basketball, Pitt Basketball has never won a basketball national championship.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh their only Final Four appearance is in 1941.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I looked it up.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: That tournament was only had like eight teams or six teams.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like a big deal like it is now.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um Pitt had made the Elite Eight in 1974.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they had some successful teams with uh Charles Evans and Jerome Lane in the late 80s.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um Pitt is at this time um where the team is is uh I call this the Big East Classic lineup, although you know people might disagree with me, but I could for from a pit perspective, it's the big east classic lineup, and that was with Miami, Virginia, Tech, Rutgers, and Boston College.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: They're still there, although I think this might have been their last year, correct?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think in 2004 they did leave.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um also uh in the con the conferences, uh Syracuse and Yukon and uh Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, and St.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: John's.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh obviously, uh Georgetown, Villanova, Seton Hall, and St.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: John's are the basketball-only schools, the original Big East members.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yukon was kind of a newcomer to football.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: They had had some success, and um, although they've kind of slid backwards since then.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And Syracuse, of course, has been playing pit forever and ever on men in both every all the sports.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Notre Dame, uh, this is uh Notre Dame hangs out in the Big East, they just kind of hang out.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're that cool kid that's uh too cool for the rest of the uh Big East, like suck it, losers.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're just gonna we're gonna play bath whoever what in football and hang out with you guys in basketball.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So and like you know, all the Olympic sports, like you know, women's gymnastics and all that fun stuff.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, the I guess the Big East was just happy to have them.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh WVU and Pitt are there, of course, uh, but neither has had too much success in basketball on the conference since joining, which is a shame because WVU had a really successful basketball program with Jerry West and such before that.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: The logo, as they call him, since the logo of the NBA is based on Jerry West.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So in 1999, uh Pitt fires uh their head coach who was Ralph Willard.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the team had only made one NIT appearance under Willard and had not been to the NCAA tournament since 1993, and that was under the previous coach, Paul Evans, I believe.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: So in that same year '99, since they got rid of Willard, they hired a basically an unknown coach from um Northern Arizona.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: His name is uh Ben Halland, and he was he was coaching the Northern Arizona Lumberjacks, which is just the great, great logo.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he had led that team to a big sky conference championship and an NCAA tournament appearances.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is one of those uh conferences where if you win the conference, your reward is to become the 16th seed and lose to I think they were a 15th seed, but they lost to like you know, a number two or number one seed.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um Halland, when he comes from northern Arizona to Pitt, he brings some guy named Jamie Dixon, who uh we would get to know much later.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: And in 2001, probably more importantly, they hire a uh assistant coach named Barry Rison.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Barry Rorson is very important to the Pitt program because he started this whole New York to Pittsburgh record recruiting pipeline, and that would exist for many years and proved to be very successful for Pitt and for the the the uh student athletes from New York that uh came to Pittsburgh.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: So Holland in his second year at Pitt, he actually makes it to the Big East Championship game for the first time in school history, and uh Pitt loses to BC in that championship game.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: So they don't make the NCAA tournament.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: The only way they could have made the tournament that year was by winning the Big East Championship game because they had had kind of uh I think they were like 15 and 14 or something in the regular season.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't have enough wins in the regular season.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um but even though Pitt misses the champ the NCAA tournament, they do get invited to the NIT tournament, but they do they lose to Mississippi State in the second round.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: The next season, Pitt does even better.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Just, you know, they're they're progressively getting better, as you can see.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: They um they make another Big East Championship game appearance, and uh they have this epic game against Yukon, and Pitt eventually loses in double overtime.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um, we'll probably a later time have to like we could do probably a whole podcast just on that Big East Championship game.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: That was there was a lot of twists and turns to that one.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's probably one of the more classic Big East Championship games in the Big East history.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they had a few of those with Yukon.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like that wasn't that was just kind of the first.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: It becomes a rivalry, yeah.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: It really does.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: So Pitt does make the tournament as a three-seed that year.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt loses to uh tenth seeded Kent State and Antonio Gates of uh San Diego Chargers tight end fame in the Sweet 16, which was kind of a letdown because that's probably one of those games they probably should have won.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: But it's kind of disappointing.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: But heading into the two 2002-2003, so they kind of have like at the end of that season, they have some disappointing losses.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So heading into the 2002-2003 season, Pitt has a bunch of players back.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: So uh just to review, so we remember everybody who's playing, and I'm sure these names will bring back lots of memories for people that you know were Pitt fans back then, and hopefully he still, although it's tough to watch the team after after reviewing this, it's tough to watch the team now.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Brandon Knight, he's a gritty point guard.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: He played Hurt the year before.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: He's the leader of the team.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: He's more of an assist guy rather than a shooter, and he is the all-time leader in assistance pit at Pitt with 785.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: His number 20 jersey is retired at Pitt.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Julius Page, he's an athletic shooting guard.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's known more for his defensive play than his offensive play, although he does finish his career with 1,512 points, ranking him 17th in Pitt history, even though he was considered more of a defense guy.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Jeron Brown, um, he was actually a uh Paul Evans recruit.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So he was or not Ralph Willard recruit, actually.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: So he was the previous coaching staff recruit, but he hung in there with the new coach, and he was considered a key part of the turnaround that has happened in the last few seasons.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's a good defensive player and he scores points, big points.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Ontario Lett was their big man.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: He played forward.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is probably my favorite player.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: He was he was like 6'6, he was more of a rebounder, not the greatest defender in the world, but he was tough on the boards.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely uh, I always uh I don't know why I enjoyed watching him play, but uh he was always a lot of fun.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: They had a gentleman um from overseas named Donatis Zavatkis, and uh he's a three-point shooter.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: He played powered forward and was a hard worker and hustled too.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: He has 1,099 points for his college career, and his free throw percentage is still fifth all time in pit history.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of the personality of this team, which is uh kind of you know different for basketball, but it worked in the Big East was uh they play a tough man-to-man defense with rebounding and an efficient offense.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: They really are a defense first team, which is like in basketball is kind of you know unheard of.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also kind of ironic because when they're in northern Arizona, Halland and Dixon had the mantra of recruit the shoot, where it was more all about offense.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of like the sign of good coaching that you can adjust to you know whatever you know situation you kind of find yourself in with the talent.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, kind of a good sign for Pitt and uh Dixon and uh Howland.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Steve, I think that like that team, so it's funny when you go through the starters because until you went through the starters, I didn't remember just how like into that team I was.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: I remember all five of those guys.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um it was it was really exciting for any of us that had watched Pit basketball before because like literally that was the first time, not just like in our lifetime, but probably in the history of the program where they actually had a top-tier team.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, up to that point, probably the the most significant moment in pit basketball history was drumling breaking the backboard, which just was like looked cool, but it wasn't really like it didn't really win them anything.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well they lost the they lost to Barry Gean in the 80s, and I think that was Vanderbilt or yeah.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: That that they just you're right there, they didn't have any even when they had decent teams, they never really went deep into tournaments.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: They were like ninth seed or something like that.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: You you never no one expected anything of them, and this is the first time now, like they were a three-seed in that O2 tournament, and that was a pretty bad upset with um Kent State.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: They they were they were, you know, but still, like they were they were like a good team.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was just really interesting and odd to see that.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was uh definitely like this is definitely probably this era is the most successful era of pit basketball.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't even I mean it's not you know, we can get into that more at the end, but so uh kind of the key players, and two players that I don't mention, but they will get mentioned more throughout the podcast.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: There were two off-the-bench guys who really end up Siobhan Troutman, who was from Williamsburg, and uh he was like a gritty small forward kind of guy, and him and Zavatkis kind of jockeyed for playing time throughout the whole season, and um, that'll kind of come into play later in the tournament.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And also there's a guy who I liked him, but not a lot of their people was Carl Krauser, and he's kind of the what should I say, the antithesis of Brandon Knight.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: He's not I wouldn't call him a selfish player, he just has a different style.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: He's more of a drive-to-the-basket shoot guy than a distributor, whereas Brandon Knight is kind of the orchestrator, and he can shoot, but he prefers to like create a shot or find the open guy.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um, he's more of a uh probably a little better of a team leader than Krauser.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: So but um that's kind of the you know, I would say the seven big personalities on that team.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked about we talked about Krauser in a previous episode, I think, when we talked about him in our most reviled episode.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I I kind of made my feelings known then.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I know, Steve, you you liked him more than I did.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: He just I said at the time he just had this very punchable face that you know when something would go wrong, he would just make this like boo-boo face.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it it just you're right, Brandon Knight was more of like a mature leader.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: But Krauser was probably I don't want to say more talented, but like more athletic, probably a better overall scorer.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I would compare it to not that these guys were at this athletic skill, but I would compare it to like if you want to compare Isaiah Thomas to like Michael Jordan, you know, or Magic Johnson to Michael Jordan, you know.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: They were more of a passer and a distributor, that would be Thomas or Johnson, where Jordan was like, I'm gonna take a shot, you know?
• 13:07
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good comp.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Not that either of those guys are in the same conversation as those players, they're way better, yeah.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: But you said Carl Krauser's as good as Michael Jordan.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Really, yeah.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe he could wear the same type of shoes.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: But uh going into the regular season, uh the Big East was absolutely loaded at this time.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: The favorites going into the season are uh Yukon, who returned some guy named Ben Gordon in a Mekka Okafor.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they the Big East was also set up like in two divisions, which is kind of odd now.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: They I guess they really don't do that in basketball anymore that I know of.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like this seems like they just throw everybody in one division anymore.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: But they were picked to win their East Division, and Pitt was picked to win the West Division, with Georgetown and Syracuse receiving some votes to finish in the top spot in that West Division.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt had all five of its starters from the year before and was a consensus preseason top five ranking.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Syracuse had some guy named Caramelo Anthony.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder whatever happened to him.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever happened to him.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um Notre Dame, they lost their inside big man, but they are considered to be more of an outside shooting team.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Mike Bray is uh in his head coach of uh coaching, his fourth year of being a head coach at Notre Dame in 2003.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it just for reference, in 2021, Mike Bray is still the head coach of Notre Dame basketball.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So Mike Bray's been there just for a little bit.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Which is like in basketball, I guess in college basketball, that isn't that unusual.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, another great thing is Pitt finally um they were in the um Fitzgerald Fieldhouse, which was kind of like I don't know, our high school gym probably rivaled the uh Fitzgerald Fieldhouse.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: The Palumbo Center was better.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there were a lot of places that were really better than the fieldhouse.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: So they they blew up Pitt Stadium and they built the Peterson event center, which is like was a big improvement over the field house.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um Pitt cruises through its early season of out of conference schedule.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: They beat Penn State, Duquesne, and Robert Morris.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Remember when they used to play all those teams at a conference every year?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so long ago.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they beat Ohio State at the at the peak by 20 points, and I think Ohio State was ranked at that time.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt wins its first nine games by an average of 26 points.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the only real like hiccup is they have a 10-point loss on the road to Georgia.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt was ranked second at the time, and that win probably would have had them ranked number one.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: But a loss in December.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not the end of the world in college basketball.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Even Halland said it really wasn't that big of a deal after the game.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Although it would have been Pitt's first number one ranking in basketball ever.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: But well, it's a Pitt athletic team, so they have to lose they shouldn't lose to when they're, you know, on the precipice of something big.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's just a roll, I think.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: True, true.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Even in basketball, I guess, yes.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um Pitt ran uh does beat a ranked Notre Dame team that was 12-1 coming in, and they beat three other top-ranked teams by by uh three other top-ranked teams.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt wins that uh Notre Dame, I guess, by 55 to 72.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: So Pitt is still ranked in the top five.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: So they had a big they rebound after that Georgia loss by beating Notre Dame ranked at when at home.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: That was at the Peterson Event Center.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: After wins against Rutgers and WVU, Pitt plays Syracuse.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt beats Syracuse 60 to 73 at the Peterson Event Center.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: It makes Pitt 4-0 in the Big East, and that's the first time ever they've been 4-0 in the Big East.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: So Pitt plays a lot of the game with Brandon Knight Hurt, and this is where Siobhan Troutman really comes into play.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: He comes off the bench and scores 23 points.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And Jeron Brown holds Carmelo Anthony scoreless for long periods of the game.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of like a big deal.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like if Jerron Brown is shutting down, like, you know, an NBA player, that's you know, of course, we didn't know that at the time.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Carmelo Anthony kind of hadn't, you know, become who you know he was yet.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh of course, Jim Bayheim, everybody's favorite coach, complains about Pitt playing physical defense.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they a lot of coaches, like, I have a lot of fun quotes, fun quotes by opposing coaches where like they're complaining, but they're trying to do it in a way so they won't get in trouble.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: So this is like you know, them working the officials.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're physical.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is a quote by Beheim after this first game.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're physical and they know when to be physical.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: They ride you a little bit and they give you a push at the right times and in the right places.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not um I'm not sure if Jim Bayheim was describing Pitts defense or his love life, but um, hey, whatever works for uh Jimmy, Jimmy B there.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh some of it could be called, some of it isn't.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a tough team to referee.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: They're like Georgetown used to be.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: They get away with some, but that's just part of good team defense.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: See how he kind of couched it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love the backhanded and then and then and then just to take a swipe at John Thompson, too, just for like no reason.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's classic big East coach speak there.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think was I don't think Thompson was at Georgetown by that point.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, but he's referencing what Georgetown used to be.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think his son might have been there by the early right.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: So speaking of Georgetown, uh they get to play Georgetown, and in an old school hard fouling contest, Pitt beats Georgetown on a foul shot by Julius Page with 0.4 seconds left.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: I remember watching this game.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was like at a an ice skating rig.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: I took my kids ice skating, and I I was sitting like watching they had like the TV.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is how popular Pitt Basketball, like they actually had the game on in like the main viewing area, you know?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that would you know never happen.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember like when they had that one point lead, you're like, okay, miss this foul shot, you know?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And he actually did it, it worked out perfect.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: He missed the foul shot, and so they couldn't throw the ball down the court.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just to show like how crazy like this game was like like basically a football game played in with basketball hoops, basically.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Six players fouled out between the two teams.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Six players.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what is that?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Five fouls.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that's 30 fouls just right there.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's crazy.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: So both teams were definitely in the double bonus in this one.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: They win 64-65, and Pitt is 11-0 at home, and that's a that's a big win.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's another big win in the Big East.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: So here's another game that I know Tim loves.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt has a rematch in the carrier dome uh with Syracuse, and they are ranked 24th.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And this is actually in front of a crowd of 30,000.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was the largest crowd, it was the largest in the country to see a basketball that season.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: 30,000 people came to see a bad regular season basketball game.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's impressive.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt led by 13 points at the beginning of the second half, but the uh orange surged late in the game, and on two free throws by bench player Jeremy McNeil, who was 26% from the free throw line.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: He tied the game with 46 seconds later.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Jerry McNag Jerry McNamara, who would be just an absolute thorn in Pitt's side, he drove to the hoop and threw up a left-handed shot, and it was tipped in by McNeil.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So Mc this guy who's like this bench player ends up being this big hero.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Carl Krauser fumbled away an inbound pass, and the crowd thought the game was over, but the uh refs reviewed it and gave Pitt like 0.8 seconds.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And Jron Brown sent a pass to Brandon Knight, and he like he was really way out there.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: He sent a jet uh desperation heave that did go in, but the the officials had to review it, and it did go in after the clock had expired.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So and uh the crowd had actually rushed.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: The court like three different times because like they thought they'd won the game.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the the funny part of this game is Jim Beheim like had to pull like a Sam Weich.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like he had to get on the microphone and say, get off the court.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't figured we've got to figure out who won the game.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it was uh it was pretty crazy scene at the carrier dome.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um remember I remember watching that game, and once again, when they blow up the carrier dome, I I want to pull the one but you're gonna put in for that privilege.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, to to put the little plunger down.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't even know who they would get get to do that if they do that.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like Ernie Davis is gone, like you know, well Ernie Davis has been gone a while, but like who's the big tight end?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: John Mackey, you know, and stuff like that.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Jim Brown, Jim Brown's still around.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's probably who they would have do it, would be Yeah, maybe.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um but he's pretty old and rail.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think I could get a better job.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: The saying.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and and like it it typically when they do that, they they'll have like I think trying to remember like when they blew up the river stadium.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: I thought they had like a fan contest, like you could enter and you could be the one that pushes the thing.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, yeah, you never know which way it's gonna go.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they'll just have the little orange guy do it, whatever he is.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or it is, I guess it's non-gender specific now.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, we're so politically correct here on the uh Yes, the the Pittsburgh sports memories.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: But uh Carmelo Anthony actually had uh 14 points and 13 right rebounds, a double-double his 11th of the season, and Pitt missed out again on getting a number one ranking for the second time this season.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he really complained too much about this loss, like a close loss on the road, like in front of 30,000 people.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's gonna happen in basketball.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: It it wasn't great, and it did kind of well, no, I don't think it did hurt really, really end up hurting Pitt besides losing the you know, the number one ranking, and probably a number one seed in the tournament.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: If they win this game, maybe they get a number one seed.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt play uh rebounds and beats Providence at home.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: The Providence coach complains the officials aren't calling enough fouls against Pitt.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Are you sensing a theme here?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt plays Notre Dame in South Bend, so another tough road game.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I I think Pitt is ranked 10th, and it's almost a rate replay of the Syracuse game.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Notre Dame point guard Chris Thomas finds Torrin Francis for a basket with like sick 0.6 seconds left in the game.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt missed a couple three-pointers.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: I remember Ontario Lead had a Y, like not a Y, but a pretty good shot inside the lane from like three or four feet away that he missed.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Brandon Knight hit his only three of the game to tie the game with less than 32 seconds left.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Pitt like said something to that guy, like, oh yeah, this is how it should be, you know, when he when he tied it, and like then the point guard for Notre Dame was like, yeah, right, and like made that sweet pass that won them the game.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: So also like I forgot how good Big East basketball was way back when.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is like two absolute five-star matchups, two weekends in a row.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: What a what a what an amazing like conference and time that was.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: It it really was, and Steve, as you've talked about in previous episodes, it that just that doesn't matter, it's not football, and so that all had to be broken up for the sake of football.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: It it really is a shame because it was a lot of fun to watch.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I mean, wow.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean uh winter weekend, you know, week Saturday nights in you know the middle of February were really exciting.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's like, yeah, what's on, you know.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Pitts playing Georgia Tech, who cares, you know?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: True.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: So once again, they have a pretty good big they get back to their winning ways with a 46-82 win at the peat.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um Dana Savakas had 15 points, Shawan Troutman had another good game.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um they lose to Seton Hall, which is this is probably another, like, this is kind of chalk this up and not a great win.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Although Seton Hall wasn't bad, but Seton Hall was a decent team.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: They lose them 61 to 73 in East Rutherford, New Jersey.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think the pit kind of overlooked Seton Hall, but Seaton Hall had upset upset Notre Dame the game before.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt shot four of 26 from three-point land, so they're not really like the not us outside of Zavadkas, they really don't have like a really good three-point shooter.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And Pitt never won in that Continental Airlines arena.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think the Penguins really did well there either.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: So thank God all those teams moved out of there.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: I looked it up, it does still exist.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: But and the Devils haven't been there since 2007.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: The Nets aren't haven't been there since a couple years later.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: So thank goodness nobody uses whatever the name of that arena.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's like Isa Arena or something.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank God that's gone.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's up there with the carrier dome.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but uh after that, Pitt kind of like gathers itself and they go on a major win streak and they cruise the wins over Georgetown, Rutgers, and Virginia Tech.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt plays Yukon, which is now this has become a major rivalry.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt is ranked eighth, and Yukon is not ranked, but does have they do have 19 wins and nine conference wins.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: So there they need this game to like set themselves up to make the tournament.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Yukon had a 13-point lead in the first half, but Julius Pay scored 11 straight points in the second half.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Ben Gordon and Rashad Anderson both missed late threes in the game.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um Howland had a great quote.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: My heart dropped when Anderson took that three from the wing.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about watching your life flash in front of your eyes.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh coach uh Calhoun said Pitt made up their minds they were going to win.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yukon coach Jim Calhoun said.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was a great win by Pitt uh over a big-time rivalry and a good team.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Seton Hall comes to the Peterson Event Center.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's no New Jersey or Continental Airlines to save you this time, Seaton Hall.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they win 54 to 86, and this secured Pitt a bye in the first round of the Big East tournament.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And they actually ended Seaton Hall's nine-game win streak.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So Seton Hall had been on a like quite a little tear themselves.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um that also makes them undefeated at home.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: They go the whole first season at the Peterson Event Center 16-0, which is just I think that's pretty unheard of outside of like Duke or like North Carolina.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like to not lose a game at home in a season is pretty impressive.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: For the last game of the season, Pitt plays Villanova in Philadelphia.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for some reason, Villanova had only seven players for the game.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there was some sort of I I vaguely remember the scandal.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was like about phone calls or something weird.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was like I don't know why that was illegal by the NCAA, but I don't know if they were calling QVC and ordering Snuggies or something.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the Villanova players were doing and why those phone calls were illegal, but they were illegal.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: So and Jay Wright, talk about another coach who's been at a school for absolutely ever.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Jay Wright was the coach at Villanova in 2003.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean Pitt leads the whole way, and this is I think this is in I think this was in the uh Wells Fargo Center, I think.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure it wasn't on Villanova's campus.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: But um, be that as it may, Villanova plays top, but Pitt leads the whole way, and they almost lose at the end.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Brandon Knight misses five free throws to put the game away.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Curtis Sumter, who would become a really good player for Villanova, misses a shot late, but Pitt hangs on to win a 56-54.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all Villanova is just always tough to beat, especially in in Philadelphia.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just hard to come out of there with a win, no matter you know, where they're playing.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Spectrum, you know, Wells Fargo Center, you know, I don't know, in front of the Rocky statue.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's just tough to beat Villanova.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Ben Hallen had a good quote.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I knew it would be tough.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: An adverse situation would probably inspire them.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: He's talking about Villanova.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Everything they did we expected.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: We made some mistakes, got a little cute, and it backfired.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: But Pitt does win, they have their big E their first round Big East bye, so it's on to the Big East tournament.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: So Pitt finishes the season with a 13-3 record in the Big East conference.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt gets the second seed in the Big East tournament due to that loss to Syracuse.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the joke used to be like when Pitt would make the tournament was come for the first game and after Pitt loses, stay for the weekend in New York City.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Bill Hillgrove saying that.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: But um, this is not your uh, I don't know, your grandfather's pit basketball team.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, and a part of it is like you gotta remember these players are mainly like Brandon Knights from New York.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know Jerr Jeron Brown's from like Kentucky, but but you know, Brandon Knights from New York, and I don't know if Paige, I don't think Paige is from New York too, but they had a lot of New York players and they really enjoyed playing in uh Madison Square Garden.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was a big, big thing to them.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: So no matter Pitt goes on absolute tear in the tournament, they beat Providence by 10, 67, 57, and they totally kill Boston College 748.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it sets up a showdown with now their big rival Yukon for the second year in a row in the Big East Conference Championship game.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's Pitt's third consecutive trip to the championship game, which is pretty impressive.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Brett Brandon Knight had been hurt in the Boston College game and he played on a bad ankle.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um at the half, it was a close game.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt was up by a point, but then in the second half, Pitt's defense took over and held Yukon to just 21 points.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt hit their free throws in the second half, going 14 to 18.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Jerron Brown had a great game.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: He had a career high of 19 points and 10 rebounds.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: One of the memorable moments was Yukon.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know how like teams will do that.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm gonna roll the ball down the court to save time.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like Brandon Knight like dove and stole the ball and called timeout, and it was like totally ruined that strategy by Yukon.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that was that was a great it was just like an example of like you know, Pitt being gritty and playing good defense, and it was just you know, kind of just how how that pit team was.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Very like tough nose and hard mind.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: They won 74 to 56 for their first big East championship in school history in basketball, and I think that was pre-2004, so that was their first Big East championship, at least in basketball and football.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if they won it in you know any of the other sports, but in the two major sports, that was their first Big East championship.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Calhoun after the game, Jim Calhoun said they were a tougher team and they wore us down with their mental toughness.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: They held us to 19 points in the second half and won the game with defense and by doing a terrific job of controlling their own offense and defense.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And this is this is what impressed me the most is Julius Page is picked MVP of the Big East tournament.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he's picked this over Ben Gordon and Carmelo Anthony, who go on to have, I would say, pretty successful NBA careers.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really an impressive showing by Pitt.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So uh on the the uh it's a great win, first time ever.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt's like, you know, they were really the team is really happy.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: They they really wanted to win that that big East tournament.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: So Pitt gets a second seed in the tournament, and they are sent to Boston to play Wagner or Wagner or Wagner in the first round matchup.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they send they dispatch uh Wagner uh Wagner, now I'm saying it all silly.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Wagner's 60 61 to 87.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the coach from Wagner still complains.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's Derek Wittenberg.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: They hit you every play, which is legal.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: They bump you, they chuck you, they do it consistently.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess you know he didn't have uh who was because Derek Wittner was the guy from NC State.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right, he's the one that threw the shot.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Threw the shot that it was Lorenzo Charles that put it in, yeah.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess there was no Lorenzo Charles to bail him out.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Ben Hallen says defense is what wins championship, championships, and it's what's going to win in this tournament, Holland said.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Our team is very unselfish, which they were.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: When they were getting down inside the paint, they weren't afraid to pass the ball around.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: So they were it was a pretty fun team to watch.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was just a fun team to watch, and they were a very good college team.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the wins sets up a showdown with Indiana, and I don't know, like, Indiana, like, uh do you consider them a traditional basketball power, Tim?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're not Duke or North Carolina or UCLA.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: They were under Bobby Knight.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and and he had been unceremoniously fired.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Was it the year before?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the year before they made the Final Four under a guy named Tom Cream, who's still coaching somewhere.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or no, they had made the championship game.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: That was it, yes.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because I had and they they were still considered like basketball royal two.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: I would say they're at least in the same era of like Syracuse, Yukon, like those kind of schools.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're not like a UCLA, North Carolina Duke, like those kind of, you know, that blue blood, but they're still, you know, they were always considered a very good team.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they had won um, I believe it was three titles under Bob Knight.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean that was Yeah, that was at the time that was as many as like Mike Sheshewsky had won a Duke.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um so that was that was pretty big.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then But but but he had like and the way they fired him was kind of ridiculous.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well they were just because I think they were looking for a reason.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: They were looking for a reason, and they weren't as good at that point.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: They they were at like they had sort of come back at this point, but like a few years earlier they weren't as good.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then he like shoved a kid on campus or something, or he like I forget.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: He yelled at the kid, the kid like he held a door or something, and he said, Don't call me.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Okay, knight, or something like that.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the kid was disrespectful to him, and and Bob Knight yelled at him, and it was like, oh my gosh, he's done so many worse things than that, and you kept him on.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like the okay, well that that's the straw that broke the camel's back.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, coach.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Also, we're you know, we're we're seven and fourteen right now.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that has nothing to do with it, of course.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and then and then there was you like you said, they pit would have played them the year before in the Elite Eight because they had upset Duke in the Sweet 16, and then they would have played Pitt had Pitt not lost to um to uh uh the Antonio Gates School camera.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Kent State, yes.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I forget they had like Kent State had some like I don't know how to describe like some white point guard that couldn't jump like but two inches off the ground, but it like he was okay, but it really wasn't I don't know interesting.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that that there was a lot of controversy because that coach for Indiana took them to the final four.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then he left.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and people are like, well, that's Bobby Knight's team, and you know, so it was a weird time for Indiana basketball because they they were good, but then was it because that's the team that Bobby Knight recruited, or you know, so that's what I remember.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: But this guy, Tom Yeah, they had I think it's Tom Coverdale, who was a really good offensive player, and he him and a couple I think other guys had carried them to that championship game where they lost to Maryland because Maryland was really good the year under um oh who was the coach?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Gary something I can't remember the like guy's last name, but Maryland Maryland's problem was they couldn't get ever get past Duke in Carolina, and and then once Duke was gone, yeah.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, then they finally broke through.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean Indiana was kind of a Cinderella team the year before, and now they're coming in as what you said, a seventh seed to play Pitt.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and the interesting thing is um Pitt totally shuts down Indiana, and like that Coverdale is a very good like offensive player.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: He they hold them scoreless for six minutes in the first half, and they force him to commit five turnovers in that stretch.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: And Pitt wins pretty easily 52 to 74, and Geron Brown scores 20 points, Brandon Knight has 17 points and seven assists.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Julius Page holds Tom Coverdale to six points on seven shots.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's like really good defense.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so Paige like totally took out their best player, and Coverdale said after the game, this is the you know, Indiana is probably one of their best players.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: He's probably the best defender I faced in my whole career.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: I knew he was a good defender, but I didn't realize he was that quick and athletic.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: He see what he sees what's going to happen before it happens.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: No one, not and this is the coach from um Indiana who was Mike Davis.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: Not one guy over there cares who scores.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's the point we've got, we've got to get back to as a team, said Indiana coach Mike Davis.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: And he bl who blistered his players for being selfish and listening to outside influences telling them how good they are.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of what happened, I think, in Indiana.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: They made the championship game the year before and they kind of read their own press clippings, you know, instead of like realizing they're kind of a Cinderella team and you know needed to focus on improving themselves.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Steve, you talked about you talked about Julius Page having a really good game and how he was also the MVP of the biggies tournament.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: He he probably has to go down as one of the most underrated players in Pittsburgh sports history, wouldn't you think, like in any sport in terms of it's just because he's a defensive basketball player, and it's like that doesn't get you press clippings.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't really like holding Tom Coverdale to that kind of output is like unbelievable.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was not a glorious job that he did, but he did it so well.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't those pit teams aren't those pit teams, I think, without Julius Page.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: For sure, for sure, yeah.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: And see, and then here's a good Howland quote.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: He calls it Pittsburgh Steelers basketball, and that's really was it.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: Howland called Pitt style play.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're not tall, we're burly, we want kids that are tough, that's what wins.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: And with that win, his fourth, and you figure Howland's only been what to the NCAA tournament now twice, two years in a row, right?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: He has the most tournament wins in pit history, in pit basketball history.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's how bad they were before Ben Hallen showed up.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, as much as we criticize Steve Peterson, that was a Peterson hire, I do believe.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: He really did get he knocked this one out of the park with Ben Hallen.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: So Pitt is on to the Sweet 16 for the second year in a row.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: They have an 11-game winning streak.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: They're red hot, they are blowing teams out.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: These games haven't been in close, but they're gonna face the third seeded Marquette in Minneapolis.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I don't know.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know who play uh they Marquette has this guy who played for them, and I don't think of anybody really I don't know whatever happened to him, this Dwayne Wade guy.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder, I wonder how his career went after this.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know what, Tom Crean was the coach at Marquette.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was misspoke when I called him the coach at Indiana, and uh Tom Crean, he was an assistant coach at Pitt from 94 to 95, and he was friends with the previous coach, Ralph Willard.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: So Tom Crean was the coach at Marquette, not at Indiana the year before.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: So my bad.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, all you Indiana phones, Indiana fans.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he was friends with Ralph Willard.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Marquette had a record of 23 and 5.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um they have another guy, uh, I can't I'll get to the guy's name, that is uh kind of their point guard, and it leads to something interesting.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: So Vern Lundquist and Bill Rafferty have have the call on CBS.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um and this could be could this be Pitts one shining moment?
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: One shining moment.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there we go.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody wanna heard me hear me sing.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so Pitts starts the game, and here's where it kind of gets interesting.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's an interesting like um I would say, I don't know, the coaching decision by um Ben Hallen.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: He has Julius Page guard Travis Deaner, who's their point guard, and not uh Dwayne Wade.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so Dwayne Wade is being guarded by Jeron Brown.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess Dwayne Wade had, you know, guarded Carmelo Anthony earlier in the year, but you know, he kind of Carmelo Anthony kind of had a good game that one against Syracuse.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Why he in Hallen's logic, according to Rafferty and Lundquist, was that Travis Deaner was kind of the straw that stirs the drink for Marquette.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if they could shut him down, their offense as a whole, I guess, wouldn't be effective, and that they were counting on Dwayne Wade not being, I guess, talent, you know, not talent, but not beating them by himself.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that would end up kind of coming back to bite them.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt starts off the game missing its first five shots, and a couple of those shots were those inside shots.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I just remember they always miss those.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of annoying with this Pitt team.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: They would just like, oh my goodness, just like all the time, just miss like these little like, I don't know, my grandfather used to call them peep shots, you know, those inside, like, yeah, they're contested, but you gotta hit those, you know.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: Mark Kick gets the first basket by Dwayne Wade, and it's almost two minutes into the game.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: The game goes two minutes without a basket.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: The Nada Savatis has two nice baskets, one for two and one for three, and Pitt has an eight to two lead.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there was one, like I think Zavotkis like starts to get fired up because like he thought it was a three, I think, but the refs thought he had his foot on the line.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think Zavatkis was just really fired up for this game, and that's gonna kind of come into play later in the game.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um Dwayne Wade fouls Zavotkis, and he gets uh he gets a little fired up.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was on a rebound.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um halfway through the first half, Pitt is up 15 to 8 and has some backups playing like Carl Krauser and Siobon Troutman.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: Troutman has been a great sixth man off the bench the whole season.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: But Marquette goes on a 5-0 run, which ends with a dunk by by Tory Morris by Pitt.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: If anybody remembers Tori Morris, who's kind of a little used big man.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Tori Morris gets a send it in by Bill Rafferty.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, but um, no backboards were hurt in the recording of this bad podcast, even though Bill Rafferty gave us a send it in.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the score, uh, it's 16 to 21 pit with six minutes to go.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Todd Townsend is a bench player for Marquette.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: He hits two threes in a row, and Marquette now has the lead 22 to 21.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Deaner and Ray Wade really aren't a factor so far in this game.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Robert Jackson has five points for Marquette.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: The secondary players really keep like Marquette in the game, and I think too, like Pitt could have really established like a big early lead, you know, and put Marquette in a hole, and that kind of hurt too.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Marquette hits some more three-pointers.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: Troutman for Pitt has some inside baskets.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: The team finished the half tied at 34.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: So Travis Deaner and Dwayne Wade only have two points in the first half.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: So they are like, at least in the first half, it like the strategy is being effective.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: They are shutting down Deaner and Wade, but at the same time, even while doing that, you're still tied with Marquette.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of like maybe a little on ominous.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: Troutman has eight points for Pitt, followed by four other players with five points each.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in the second half, Marquette big man Robert Jackson continues to play well.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Marquette builds a three-point lead, 43 to 40 with 16 minutes left.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: And this is kind of um where Dwayne Wade breaks loose.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: Dwayne Wade basically takes over and he starts scoring at will on both um Brandon Knight and like Julius Page.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like by the time Page like kind of started guarding him, he always like already had gotten hot.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Pitt tried to put Jeron Brown on him.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: He scored on him too.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: So Dwayne Wade scores the the last 10 points that Marquette has scored, and they now lead 51 to 44.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt, Marquette hits another three.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're on fire from three-point land.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Knight answers with a bucket.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where like I think like Pitt maybe starts to see it slipping away.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Zavotkis throws some wild elbows.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, he's like literally gonna take somebody's head off.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like the crowd, like kind of goes, ooh.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's like Vern Lundquist said he felt the wind from his and Rafferty remarks that he cleared out the uh photographers in the front row.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh here's another iconic moment.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: Dwayne Wade like drives the lane and Jeron Brown like basically tackles him, but Wade throws up this like underhanded shot that goes in anyway.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: So at this point, Dwayne Wade is like broken loose, and Pitt has no answer.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: Some nice interior passing by Pitt.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: They cut the lead to 60 to 54.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's been kind of their trademark.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: And there's still eight minutes left.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, with eight minutes left, Donata Savakas, and they really could have used a three-point shooter like late in this game.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: He takes off his shoes and leaves the bench area.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Both Howland and Barry Rorson try to talk to him.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh at that point, you know, he took his shoes off, Halland said, and that was it.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there seemed to be some rivalry with him and Troutman.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I guess he got mad that Troutman was starting to eat away at his minutes, but Troutman would go on to be a really good player and was a really good player the whole year.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: And he just, I guess he couldn't accept his role at that point, which was kind of like anti to like most of the players on the team, like were you know, had kind of accepted their role, but Zavotkis definitely, you know, hurt hurt himself and the team by uh pouting here in the second half of this game.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is it bad that that's that that I mean that's not all I remember of Danana Zavotkis, but that's the anytime you would raise his name, that literally would be the first thing I would think of as him taking his shoes off.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he was a really good player, and he was a tough, gritty player.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: He's the type of player that fitted on that team.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: He just like sometimes like Troutman was really good, and I don't know, maybe he thought he should Troutman should have subbed in for Lett, but that really wasn't Troutman's position.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: Lett was more of the center where Troutman was always a small forward.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's just Troutman was a better inside presence, and it was kind of like one of those weird, like Zavakis was like one of those small forwards like like Sumter or like Pit snoggle where he could jump out and you know he could post up, but he was really good at jumping out and hitting threes and shots, you know, if he could find his spot on the floor.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas like he just was a little different player than Troutman.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I I don't I don't know what to tell you there.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: I wish he wouldn't have done it.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it definitely ends up hurting Pitt down the down the stretch here, but maybe he wishes he wouldn't have too.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: Probably, yeah.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: Wade smokes night again, Marquette leads 67 to 59 with about 520 to go.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: Krauser's just Krauser's in, he turns the ball over and like badly.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Dwayne Wade dunks it home.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: Krauser is a freshman and still young, so but I think you know he kind of like starts to melt down a little bit too.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: So Pitt gets Krauser off the ball, and they put Brandon Knight, you know, the real leader of the team, you know, back, and Knight spurs a comeback.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: So Pitt now goes on an 11-1 run to get back in the game after they trailed 71-59.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: Knight makes a nice pass to Troutman, and it's 71-68 with two minutes to go.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they finally make a defensive stop on a missed shot by Wade.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: And they uh a nice pass, another nice pass from Knight to Troutman.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's now 71-70 with a minute 18 left.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: Marquette gets fouled on the next position, possession, and hits their foul shots, and it's now 73 to 70.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: But Brandon Knight has a sweet dribble drive, and he he puts one in for 73-72, one of the few times he didn't, you know, pass.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: He he could he could drive too, but he was more of a passer.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: But that was definitely a big bucket.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: But Wade answers right back with a nice shot.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is probably the biggest shot of the game, because it really put the game away.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's 75-72 with 21 seconds to go.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: And with no Zelvatis, no Zelvatkis, Pitt's best three-pointer.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt has to opt to go for two.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: They get a foul.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Knight gets fouled.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: He hits both his three throws, but it's still 75-74.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: Marquette.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: Marquette ends the ball, inbounds the ball, and they get loose and they kind of run around and run some time off, and they get fouled, but they hit their foul shots.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh 77-74.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: Brandon Knight misses a three-point shot after uh some other missed Marquette foul shots to really put the game.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: A wild shot by Krauser from like half court, you know, and the game ends.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: Pitt loses to a pretty uh pretty good Marquette team, 77-74.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Brandon Knight finishes with 17 points and 11 assists.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: Jron Brown has 14 points.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: Chevy Troutman finishes with 15 points.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: Page has 12 points, and he does shut down Travis Deaner, but the problem is Dwayne Wade finishes with 22 points and four assists.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Deaner finished with four points and eight assists, but you know, Dwayne, I think not being able to shut down Dwayne Wade and the other backups killed them.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Marquette would go on to upset Kentucky in the Elite Eight, but they lost to Kansas in the Final Four.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, whatever did happen to that Dwayne Wade guy, he would go on to become an NBA superstar.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: He would win multiple championships.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: Miami was some guy named LeBron.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Syracuse won the uh national championship that year.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: That was Beheim's first, with Carmelo Anthony leading the way.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: A team that Pitt had beaten.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: So was that Beheim's only championship?
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: I believe it is.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think so, yeah.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because speaking of Bobby Knight, that was the Keith Smart game.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: They lost that game.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh that's hard to believe.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he he was he's been coaching them since I I want to say like 1937, maybe.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: He was there when Pitt went to the final four back then.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's who uh who who beat them that year.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was Jim Bayheim.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: Steve, do you think that do you think if they so Brandon Knight really like like you said, he kind of like he carried the team on his back and they almost came back.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think if they come back and win that game, you mentioned how they they had beaten Syracuse.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think they get past Kentucky and Kansas and Syracuse?
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because that would have been the next three opponents.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember who played for Kentucky and Kansas, but here, like uh we'll put a bow on it here.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: I here's what I I'll I'll I'll let me put a bow on it and then I'll finish with my thoughts.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I I think I after watching you know Pitt, because I kind of got in really into Pitt basketball at this time, you know, and I I think what happened to Pitt is just kind of what what wins in the tournament and what doesn't win in the tournament, and that's where I'll go with this.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: So Pitt finishes the season 28-5.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: They go undefeated, 16-0 at the Peterson events, and they win their first Big East championship.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: They make the sweet 16 for the second year in a row, and although it's a disappointing loss, I don't think it's like as bad a loss as the one to Kent State.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: Brandon Knight, Jeron Brown, and Tario Lett leave as the winningest class in Pitt basketball history.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where things, unfortunately, after the season ends, Ben Howen leaves for some sweet Adidas money at UCLA.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: UCLA just offered so much money, and they bought out his contract like it was nothing because they're UCLA and they just have money to burn.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, according to Chuck Finder, Ben Howland, now this is Chuck Finder and I don't believe this for a minute.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: Ben Howland made less money, and Ben Howland said this too.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: He made less money at UCLA than Pitt.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: They said Pitt was offering 1.3 mil, and UCLA offered 900k plus incentives.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure those incentives were guaranteed and were way more than that$1.3 million.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: Was Howland a healthcare?
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: He's from UCLA.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: He's from LA.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care what part, but he's from LA.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Howland goes on to UCLA.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: He he gets the two straight national championship games, but can't win either, losing the Florida both times.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: He was actually at UCLA for 10 years till 2013.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: He went to three consecutive Final Fours, won the PAC 10 conference four times, but he still gets fired because you know imagine if he would have done that at Pitt.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: He would be like Beheim or Calhoun.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: He would have been there as long as you want to be here until you don't want to be here no more.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well well, remember like 2003, it was it was you know a few years removed from the John Wooden era.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was you know uh 30 years.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they had won a championship in the 90s with with I think with him.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: But like UCLA was still um you talked about Indiana being basketball royalty, like UCLA was still Yeah, I would put them above Indiana, like up there with Duke in North Carolina, right?
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if they are really today, but but back then they were they were a lot closer to that John Wooden era than they than they are today, and they were so desperate, they were so desperate to get back there.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: And Howland's dream, I think, was to be that guy.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: He was going to be the John Wooden, you know, to take UCLA back to where they used to be.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: He had tried a couple of times to get the UCLA job, or you know, and they had turned him down.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like when he was at other schools before he went to northern Arizona, he had success as an assistant, and he tried to you know even be an assistant and they wouldn't have him.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how he actually how he ended up at Northern Arizona.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um Pitt totally lucks out, actually.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: They hired Jimmy Dixon, Holland's assistant, and he keeps Barry Rorson, and they have um they have a ton of success.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, but that's that's another we'll maybe we'll we'll well we'll definitely do like Jamie Dixon era.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: This will be we'll call this the Ben Howland era, but this is definitely the close but no NBA star, you know.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um besides Johnny Majors, Ben Howland, he's probably the one of the greatest hires in school history.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: He totally like created a culture where there really wasn't any.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: Johnny Majors, at least there had been some winning culture at pit football.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: There pit basketball never had any winning culture, really.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean they had Calipari and some other people back in the 80s, but that never really lasted and never really did anything.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a really good comparison, Steve, because we did an episode on Johnny Majors, and you talked about how the program was almost like extinct at the time, the football program at the time they had Johnny Majors in the 70s.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and the basketball program wasn't extinct, but it was it was as close as you could come.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, pit basketball was so irrelevant.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and like they not only did it go 1600 with the Pete, the Pete became this like this really exciting place, all the students, you know, and and like they never had that in the 80s or 90s.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: They never they never had that level of excitement, even with the student body.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it became a who's who, too.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like Mike Tomlin attended the games and like yeah.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: But the follow-up on that, like just whatever, yeah, I guess we'll do like you know the end of the uh all those movies, like whatever happened to this guy.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um Brandon Knight played in the NBA D League for a couple years, and then he went on to coaching.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: He coached at Pitt from 2008 to 2016.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: He went to Rutgers, he's still at Rutgers as an assistant basketball coach.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, he's had a fair uh Jeron Brown, he graduated from Pitt.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: He never played bro pro basketball.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing I can find about him lately is an article stating he was coaching high school basketball in Kentucky.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: So uh Ontario Lett.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he he I remember he was coaching at Pitt in 2015, and um he couldn't I couldn't find anything about him since.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even the Facebook page and stuff, like there weren't really many updates and stuff.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know what Ontario Lett's up to.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: Donata Savotkis went on to have a 13-year pro career in Europe.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that's the shame of it, is he really became like a very good pro in 2016?
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: He was running some European team who I can't pronounce their name, so somewhere in Lithuania.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I I I don't know.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think anybody dares take off their shoes at his.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what's on because Otis has been doing since 2016.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Chev Siobon Troutman, after after a great career, Pitt, he went on to have a 15-year pro career mostly in Europe.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: He was last playing in 2018 for a team in Argentina.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: And here, kind of like, what was the question you asked me?
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why, like, why Pitt never had success?
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or like, what happened?
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: Here, here's kind of my theory is Pitt was always a good college team, but they're never able to get over the hum.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: And in my opinion, just from like after years of watching the tournament and watch Pitt in the tournament, and I kind of really got into the NCAA tournament, is I think there's two things that win in the NCAA tournament.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_01: You either have your lottery picks, your one and done lottery pick NBA players, that like every time you pass in the ball, it's like tweet, tweet, they get the foul, or they just score a bunch of points, like Dwayne Wade or Kamarlo Anthony, or you know, who are the players on that Florida team that went, like Noah and you know, some of those guys.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if you don't have like one of those players, the other way you can win, like the way the small schools win, like I mean, there was like a northern Iowa and like American, which I think is you get like a bunch of little three-point shooters and they just run around and shoot threes, and that will win you games, and that's a little easier probably to you know recruit than you know the big NBA one and done's like Calipari, Kentucky does every year.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think North Carolina does that to some extent, but I mean I I don't know.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: Does that kind of answer your question there?
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: You'd asked way to be.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that makes sense.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it and this was kind of that era.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Calipari was still maybe was I don't remember where he was at this time.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was Memphis.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: This might have been before Memphis.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: It might have been before Memphis, but that but he definitely made that whole practice famous of like, let's recruit the star player, sell him on you can play here one year and be a star, and then you'll be a lottery pick in the NBA.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: And like no matter how good Pitt's defense was, like Dwayne Wade was such a good example.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, okay, we have this great defensive team, but eventually somebody's gonna crack that because they're just so talented, and then and then it's tough for you as a defensive mining team to then score a bunch of points to keep up.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like that just wasn't their game.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think even if they don't score, they get the foul.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's the bigger problem, is like they're just gonna drive in there and like, oh, that's Dwayne Wake.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_01: Tweet, you know, like that's Kamarley Anthony, tweet, oh, we missed the shot.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: And even if it's clean defense, well, Kamarley Anthony's not gonna miss that shot.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's a foul, you know.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think the refs go to that mindset.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then, like I said, Pitt never really was of the mind to recruit a bunch of three-point shooters.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they always had like one guy, like you know, they had Ramon or Ashton Gibbs or you know, Zavakis, but they never really had like I like those other teams I'm talking I was talking about had like three or four guys, and those guys never played in the NBA either for the most part, but they were you know although I guess Butler that one year had had that guy, you know, I can't remember, but it was pretty good.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: But that's more of the Jamie Dixon era.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_01: I really enjoyed watching this team.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was a fun like um team of like players that played well together and like complimented and played.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: They were a tough, gritty team to watch, and uh you know, they really weren't pre-Madonnas, they kind of fit the uh city of Pittsburgh well, I think.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um thanks for tuning in.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, hopefully that gets you ready for the uh March Madness, which uh will be coming up to get us out of this uh winter.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: The links for our website, our Facebook page, and our Twitter page are all in the show notes.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_00: The website is Pittsburgh Sports Memories.com.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for tuning in, and I will talk to you next time.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.