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The Real Definition of Rich (And How to Get There) With Vivian Tu · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: No one has all the answers, but when we ask
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Danielle Robe, and each week, my guests and I come
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: together to challenge the status quo and our own ways
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not?
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: And who says? So?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Come curious, dig deep, and join the conversation. It's time
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: to question everything. Hello, Hello, Hello, I hope you're having
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: an amazing week. I am so excited to let you
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: know that this is the last Thursday of February and
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: that means next month is March, which really means that
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: it's Women's month, and man, oh man, unintended, do I
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: have a lineup for you? I have so many amazing
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: women each week of March. It keeps getting better. So
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: make sure you tune in and with that, we'll get
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: to our episode this week. The world of money online
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: looks very different than real life online. Everyone's that girl, right,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: passive income, soft life, multiple streams, luxury hulls. But in
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: real life, rent is high, debt is real, and anxiety
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: about money feels louder than ever. So what if our
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: relationship with money isn't about math but messaging. It feels
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: like a moment for our rich bff. Vivian two is
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: back today. She's a former Wall Street trader who has
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: built an entire financial empire on and offline. She's done
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: it by saying the quiet parts out loud when it
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: comes to money. Her new book is called Well and Dowed. Yes,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: it is called Well and Dowed, and she digs in
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: deep on mastering the financial milestones that matter most and
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: building a life that actually feels secure, not just one
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: that looks expensive. And Vivian's here with the reminder we
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: all need.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: If somebody in your life has a you, they have
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: the power to star you.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: So today we're questioning everything that we've been told about
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: wealth and worth. We talk about being smart versus wise
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: with money, the friction points that save you from impulse
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: buying your way into regret, why investing sometimes means your
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: cash is literally just sitting there, And how to have
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: money conversations that don't make you want a fake a
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: fire drill. It's time to question everything with Vivian too. So, Vivian,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: the last time you were here, you were rich as
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: fuck rich am and this time you're well endowed.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Listen. They can say a lot of things about me,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: but they cannot say that I don't come up with
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: a creative, eye catching book title. I mean, sounds like
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: life has been good to you. It has. It has
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: changed a lot. I think when I was writing my
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: first book, I was still very much unmarried. I was
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: in a phase of my life where it was very
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: much hustle, hu hustle. I was just a yuppie, like
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: a young urban professional. I wanted to make things work.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I was making a lot of money and I wanted
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: to know how to manage it. And now I'm in
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: a really different phase of my life. I'm married, I'm
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: thinking about family. Unfortunately, my parents are getting older. I'm
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: starting to have to deal with some really real things
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: with that. But life has changed a lot, all in
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: good ways, but that's life.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: First of all, really loved your book. I want to
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: tell you that I'm going to be transparent. I don't
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: like a lot of finance books. I had to learn
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: a few years ago. I don't know if you remember
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: the last time we spoke, I was like, I.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Don't understand finances.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: So I learned, and a lot of the books either
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: went right over my head or were so basic that
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I felt like boring, boring, and like, what am I
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: learning here? This is a true how to and it's
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: a one oh one for everything you need for insurance,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: for how to buy a car, how.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: To lease a car, anything you can think of. I
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: was so impressed. But that means a lot to me
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: coming from you too, because I feel like you are
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: so representative of my audience. You are a young woman
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: who is incredibly smart, but doesn't feel incredibly smart when
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: it comes to her money. Yes, and I want you
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: to feel incredibly smart and powerful and the same way
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: that you do for the rest of your career and
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: the rest of your life when it comes to your finances.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: So not only did you get married, but you froze embryos. Yes,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: you set up a trust yup like you mentioned, started
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: to help retire your parents. Yep, you started a second company.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I feel like this book shows all of your growth.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: My version of well endowed is maybe a little different
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: than your version of well endowed.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: What does it mean to you? Yeah? So people are
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: always he he Hahaing about the book title because usually
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: it's used to describe something else. But if you actually
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: look at the phrase, well, in dowed, it's talking about
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: an endowment. You've heard this phrase. It's like Harvard's endowment
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: or your favorite charity has an endowment. An endowment, simply put,
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: is just a pile of money that can be invested
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: and grow for the future, and any organization's mission can
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: be essentially continued into perpetuity into the future where and
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: that is what I want for every single person reading
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: this book. I want you to feel like you have
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: the resources and the tools and the knowledge to build
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: a pile of money to buy you the best life possible.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean you have the most money possible. It
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: means that you have enough money to have a happy
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: today but also have a happy retirement. You have enough
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: time to be able to spend with your family and
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: your friends and your loved ones, and you ultimately feel
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: like you got what you bargain for.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I love that part because we all work so hard
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: and we want something to show for it at the
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: end of the road. Your first book felt like you
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: were teaching us how to be smart with money, and
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: in this one you actually say I'm teaching you to
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: be wise what is the difference.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: I think being smart is really simple. It's cut and dry.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: It's all theory. It's should I be doing xyz? And
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: then you're able to literally google the answer. Yeah, there
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: is always a right and a wrong answer. However, when
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: it comes to being wise, it's all gray area. There's
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: no white or black. There's no yes or no, it's yes.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: I do know spending so much money on bachelorette parties
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: is irresponsible. However, my friends are getting married. I don't
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: want to damage the relationship. I don't want to damage
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: the friendship. What do I do? Or Yes, I do
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: need a car, but how nice of a car do
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I actually need? Or sure? I do want to be
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: kind to my family, But man, uncle Tony is asking
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: me for a very large sum of money to start
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: his small business, but I don't really think is going
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: to pan out. How do you respond to Uncle Tony?
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: I think all of these moments in our life, the
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: actual lived moments, are really what separates being smart versus
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: being wise, because it's easy to know the right versus
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: the wrong answer, but it's not easy to know what's
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: right and wrong for your lifestyle. That's really well said.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I have this one friend who always tells me, Danielle,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: sometimes you are right, but it doesn't mean you are correct.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think there's such a distinction. And I'm thinking
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: about smart and wise in that way too.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: So for anybody who felt like me a few years ago,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: who is like I wanted to out at this money conversation,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: or like even the title makes them be like, I
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: don't care about this podcast. What is a statistic or
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: a fact or something that you keep in your back
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: pocket that would absolutely shock them and reel them in
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: before we even have this conversation.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I've got three. We're told our entire
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: lives as women that we are bad with money. There
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: are literally movies called Confessions of a Shopaholic. There are
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: shows titled two Broke Girls. What about the two broke guys?
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: What about the fact that he just bought a PS
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: five and hunting equipment and tickets to the Super Bowl?
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Those were expensive too? Why are you ragging on my
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Saphora Hall? But here's the actual truth. Single women own
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: more homes than single men in all fifty states. We
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: have less debt across every single category except for student loans.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Because we're all getting more educated and Fidelity actually did
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: a study across different portfolios and found that women's portfolios
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: were outperforming men's because women were so anxious that they
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: were just buy and hold investors, but men thought they
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: were smarter than everybody and were trying to day trade
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: or swing trade and ended up losing more money, and
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: the women were actually growing their wealth. And so the
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: thing that I'm really frustrated by is that I think
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: we as women, we need a new publicist. We are
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: not getting the type of, you know, true respect that
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: we deserve when it comes to our money, and because
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: of that, we essentially say these terrible things to ourselves,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: like we're bad budgeters, we are really irresponsible with money.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how that works. And so throughout our
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: entire lives we delegate first to our fathers, then to
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: our husbands, and then to our sons. But the brutal
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: status most women die alone. We outlive our partners. And
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: because of that, at some point in your life, your
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: financial journey, your financial future, your financial independence will be
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: up to you. And if you don't know what you're doing,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: it is going to be a really easy time for
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: someone to take advantage of you and you feel so
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: out of control.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: It is the feeling worst feeling I felt it for
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: so many years. To not feel in control of your
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: finances is brutal. Speaking of not knowing on page three,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: So right in the beginning, you say I knew the
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: price of everything, but the value of nothing. I thought
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: that was a really powerful statement. What was the first
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: decision that showed you the difference?
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: You know, I think there was a difference in how
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: I started to value my time, understanding that if I
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: spent an extra two hours at my desk, maybe I
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: could make a little bit of extra money, or maybe
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: that money would allow me to buy something, just something
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: frivolous that has a price tag that's very easily calculated.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: But I had spent all this money to send my
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: parents on an all expenses paid vacation, a trip to Asia,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: paid for the business class flights, I paid for the hotel, everything,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: And when they came back, they flew into JFK to
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: stop buying New York and see me for a couple
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: of days before going home to Maryland where I grew up,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: and my parents were at my house. I took them
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: out for dim sum that morning, and then when we
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: got back to my apartment. I immediately opened my laptop
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: and started getting back to work. And I just saw
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: this disappointment on their faces of like, man, we get
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: to see our daughter maybe these days two times a year,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: and she can't even carve out a couple hours. And
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: I knew what those hours cost me. I easily would
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: have spent that much money to go buy a new
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: designer coat. Why couldn't I choose to spend that on
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: the value the time that I would have with my parents?
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: And it was a brutal reminder like my parents had
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: me when they were a little bit older. My dad
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: is in his seventies, my mom is in her late sixties.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: If I'm lucky, I will get thirty more birthdays, thirty
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: more Christmases, thirty more thanksgivings, thirty more happy New Years,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: and that's it. That's not that many. So like, I
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: have to really value that before I can't anymore.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Well said, I think part of the name is so
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: smart because obviously it's a sexual innuendo, and sex and
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: money are so tied. Yes, they both asked that question
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: what am I working? And I could go on and
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: on about the similarities there. So I was thinking, I'm
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: going to ask you a few money questions with a
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: bunch of sexual innuendo.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Okay, Greg are great. I love you know that money
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: and sex are the top two reasons why couples fight,
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: really the top two. I knew money, I didn't know. Sex. Yes,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: because they're so tough about it. Imagine you know, if
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: you could eliminate half of those arguments, your relationship would
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: be so much healthier.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: And they both elicit like control and fear, and like
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: all the same emotions, shame.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Shame, frustration, all of it. And it's something that's challenging
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: to talk about.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, we're going to be well endowed too, Okay,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: let's do it. Okay, what is the sexiest thing about money?
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: To you? Having a lot of money means you don't
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: have to think about it. You can think about literally
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: anything else that's sexy. I think that's power, maybe power sexy.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: How do you make it sexy for other people? Talk
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: dirty to me? Well, talk dirty to me, but with
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: your bank account.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, So I would say start with the basics, Okay,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: actually work your way up in the same way. You
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: don't immediately get in there and say take off your clothes.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: You gotta set the scene, you gotta light some candles,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: you gotta make it nice, Okay. And so what I
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: would say is like, start your money conversations early and often,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: so maybe on a first date, asking something like if
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: I gave you one hundred thousand dollars tomorrow, what would
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: you do with it.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: For two weeks to plan your dream vacation. It's a
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: good one, right, It's a great one because it's not
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: too invasive.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: It's not invasive. Everybody thinks it's a fun question, but
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: it tells you a lot of how they value money.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: You can also ask simple questions. We're sitting in LA
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: right now having this conversation. I feel like in major metros,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: the running gag across all of your friends is that
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: everybody's rent is too high. So when I actually go
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: to a housewarming or I go to someone's apartment for
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: the first time, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: so nice. Do you mind me asking how much do
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: you pay? And for some reason, that money question is
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: actually very much on the table. People are not weird
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: about that question at all, really, not in New York
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: at least.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Oh see, I'm like, ah, really, yes, really is that bad?
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: No, I'm just curious why. I don't know. It feels
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: very personal. No. But if I asked you that and
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: I said something like, Hey, Danielle, I love this apartment.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: I've been looking for something just like it. Do you
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: mind me asking what you pay? I'm curious if there
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: are any other units available in the building.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, So if you're looking for units, then I'm like, yeah,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you, and you know, connect like help.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Me, help me negotiate so that I can get what
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I want. But it depends how close we are, Like
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: if you're my friend, Yeah, You're not having these conversations
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: with strangers. I've had, like hair and makeup people come
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: to my apartment and ask me that. I'm like, excuse me,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's appropriate because you don't have that relationship. Okay,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: I have hair and makeup people that I've worked with
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: for years. If they ask me, I would tell them, right.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: But if it's someone that I've just met today, certainly not.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: You don't have money conversations with everybody. You have them
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: with the people you trust, who you already have a
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: background with. And I think those are the things that
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: actually bring you together. As friends. Okay, what's the condom
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: equivalent of financial protection? A prenup? Do not get married?
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: We're free up because guess what, even if you don't
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: draft one with an attorney, you get one and the
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: government gets to write it. What do you think of
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: a postnup? Post nups are great? Listen?
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: So like, if someone listening is married and is like,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: we didn't do this? Yeah, is it too late?
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: You can do it. You can still get a post nup. Listen.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: I think the conversation's a little trickier for sure. But
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I think if your partner's understanding, if they love you,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: if they want the best for you and for them,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: you have to and it's worthwhile to do. It's worthwhile
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: to do because in certain states there are so many crazy,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: weird rules and maybe you and your significant other are
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: not comfortable with those rules. Why would you let the
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: state government dictate how you operate in your relationship. I
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: don't want that. Like, I don't think it's their decision
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: to make, it's mine. What's the plan be of personal finance? Like,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: after you've already made a bad decision and they need
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: to like fix it, Okay, I would say probably, like
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: debt consolidation. Okay, what is that? So? Right now, nearly
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: fifty percent of people in this country have credit card
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: debt okay, and credit card debt admittedly is one of
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: the scariest, fastest growing, and most problematic types of debt
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: because the interest rates are so high. They can be
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: anywhere between twenty to thirty percent APR mating twenty to
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: thirty percent interest every single year. And that means if
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: you borrow one thousand dollars and you can't pay it
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: off right away, that grows decently quickly. Yeah, it's like
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: two hundred bucks a month that you're now two hundred
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: bucks a year a year at twenty three hundred bucks
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: if it's for a full year. But the thing that
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: I encourage people to do is consolidate that debt. So
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: if you have a bunch of credit card debt or
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: high interest rate debt, something above seven percent, what you
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: can do is actually get a balanced transfer card. So
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: if you are sure you have cleaned up your act,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: you are ready to make amends, you're ready to do
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: things right, you can actually get another credit card and
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: this balance transfer card, you pay a fee, you transfer
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: the balance, but then for the first twelve to eighteen months,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: you actually get charged zero percent interest. Oh wow, meaning
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: every dollar you're paying towards that debt is actually wiping
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: what you borrowed versus in. Alternatively, if you don't think
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: you can get it done in twelve to eighteen months,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: you could get a personal loan from a financial institution.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: You go to a bank, you go to a credit union,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: and you say, hey, I'd like to get a personal loan.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: They check your credit, They will offer you one if
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: your credit's decent, and then what you can do is
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: actually use that lump sum of money to pay down
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: all of that credit card debt and then you just
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: pay back the bank. But those interest rates can be
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: closer to seven to fifteen percent, So you're saving a
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: bunch of money on interest and it gets you out
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: of a pretty pickle. I didn't know about that. Very cool.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, So if xxx triple X equals protection, what
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: is the lube of money?
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: I would say building infrastructure. So your book read this
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: a little bit, But what I'm really saying is like,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: I don't think you, nor I nor anybody listening to
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: this actually has the willpower to be financially successful. You
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: cannot rely on willpower. It's interesting think about the number
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: of times that you were like, yeah, I'm gonna eat
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: right today, and you eat like a bird for breakfast,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: you eat a super healthy salad for lunch, and then
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: by dinner time you're like elbow deep in like mac
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: and cheese. I don't have the willpower to make things happen,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: and I don't think most people do. Actually, what I
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: think you do have the power to do is build
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: a system. Build infrastructure that takes all the thought out
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: of it. So maybe it's setting up your direct deposit
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: so that it automatically goes partially into a checking account,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: partially into a savings account, partially into an investment account.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Then you don't have to think about it. Maybe it's oh,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: there are automatic transfers from my general checking account into
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: a sinking fund for the vacation I want to take
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: later this year. Maybe it's even setting a standing date
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: with your partner every single month to go over your
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: financial goals, to go over the things that you need
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: to be discussing. So make sure that you're on the
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: same page when you build the infrastructure. It's a lot
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: easier to make smart decisions than it is to try
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: and will power your way through it.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: That's well said. Food is a good sort of analogy
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: there too.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Going to the gym. I mean, I wouldn't be a
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: gym girly, but it never happened until I started packing
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: my gym bag the night before, until I joined a
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: gym that was fifteen minutes from my apartment that I
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: could walk to. And also instead of just working out
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: on my own, I started taking classes. Yeah, and the
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: classes they have a thirty five dollars cancel fee. And
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: I'm way too cheap to pay a cancel fee. So
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: when it's like the day of and I'm like, shoot,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: it's within the twelve hours, I can't cancel. I have
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: to go hold yourself accountable. What is the financial equivalent
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: of a safe word? I think the financial equivalent is
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: really just having conversations with your spouse, with your friends.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: We don't know what the boundaries are until we test them,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: and we don't know when is enough unless we're actually
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: discussing that. Something that really frustrates me is that nearly
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: half of all couples don't actually talk about money until
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: they're already engaged. Imagine you and I get engaged and
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: then you find out I've got twenty five thousand dollars
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: a credit card debt. Then you find out, oh, but
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: she has a really large inheritance coming in. But because
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: of that, her family's weird about money and they've been
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: suing each other for generation. Like, do you want to
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: get involved in that? Do you know? You need to
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: be having these conversations much earlier.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: On so many of my friends, it's not when they're engaged,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: but they move in and that's when they find out
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: all this stuff.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: You have to get financially naked long before you move
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: in together, long before, because it puts you in such
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: a pickle. Yeah, because now you have stuff with them,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: you gotta move movers. It's a whole headache.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: My last one is what's the orgasm gap of personal finance?
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Where people think they're doing it right but they're really
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: not satisfied.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Ooh, that's a really good one. Okay. I think the
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: biggest orgasm gap for personal finance is people who think
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: they're investing but they're not. Okay, this is very confusing
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: for many people, So I'll break it down very simply.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Imagine this. You grab your purse, you have cash inside
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: your purse. You go to the grocery store, you take
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: a hot lap around the grocery store. You're looking stuff,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: you're looking at you know whatever. And then you go
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: home and then you open up your fridge and you're like,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: where's my food? Girl? You didn't buy any you just
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: walked around. That is what happens to so many people
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: who think they're investing. They will open up a roth ira,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: they will open up an ira, they will open up
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: even like the four oh one K with their company.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Then they will put this money into that account and
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: they're like, I'm done. No, baby, you didn't buy any investments.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: You just put cash in the bag that is your purse.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: You just put cash in your purse. You literally actually
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: have to then go take that cash in that account
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: and go purchase things, whether it be index funds, whether
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: it be target date retirement funds, if it's a retirement account,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: whether it be sector funds for sectors you're interested in,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: whether it's international ets or mutual funds that track international indices.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: But you actually have to buy stuff. When you go
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: to the grocery store, you have to then go buy
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: turkey from the deli. You have to go buy eggs,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: you have to go buy milk, you have to go
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: buy bread. That was me. I didn't realize it first.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: I had somebody DM me and they said, I am
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: so embarrassed, and thank you for letting me know. And
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: she told me. She was like, I went to the
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: University of Chicago where you went to school. Where I
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: went to school, which is, by the way, an elite
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: university that's known for its economic program. And she said,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: she was like, my money has been sitting in cash
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: for the past eight years, and I wondered why my
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: investing wasn't working. She's like, your video literally made me
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: go and check and it wasn't invested. That's so great
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: that you helped someone there. Yeah, it feels really cool.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: It feels amazing. But I wish they'd taught us this
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: stuff in school, Like I absolutely personal finance education was
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: taught K through twelve because I don't necessarily need to
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: use the Pythagorean theorem every single day of my life.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: But it really would have been nice to know how
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: to file a tax return. It really would have been
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: nice to know how to balance a checkbook. It would
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: have been really nice to know how to look at
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: a P and L statement. But I didn't have those skills.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I used to think, Okay, let me meet up man
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: who has all these skills so that I don't have
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: to deal with it.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Not anymore, certainly not you got me.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Not only do I have you, but also even if
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: I met a man with those skills, now I want
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: to know you, like really cannot leave it up to somebody,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: and so many of my friends still do.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Can I tell you the scariest message I ever got. Yeah,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: people think that when I'm talking about women needing to
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: understand money, I'm thinking of a worst case scenario. They're like, well,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Vivian's thinking of the women who get left by their
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: evil husband, like marry a younger, hot or whatever. Like
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: that isn't even what's happening. Sure, there are some cases
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: of divorce, your husband leaves you, it's like, you know,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: pretty sad. But I get so many dms that are
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: like hello, Like my name is this, I'm sixty five
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: years old. Me and my husband were married for forty
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: wonderful years. He recently passed. I don't even know the
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: log into our bank account. There was no abuse in
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: the relationship. They had a perfectly happy marriage. They had
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: kids that were wonderful, a happily ever after story, and
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: you can still end up in an incredibly vulnerable position.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: I don't want that for anybody.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: What do you say to people that are like, you
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: know what money is? Just like, I'm not that interested
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, and it'll all be fine, Okay.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: You interested in nice shoes, you interested in traveling, you
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: interested in hobbies? You know what? Everything costs? Money? I
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: am so sorry, but it's never been about the money itself.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Money is a means to an end. But you know
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: what money buys you. Money buys you freedom, time, Money
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: buys you options, Money buys you choices. Money lets you
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: leave a crappy job where your boss doesn't respect you,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: a crappy relationship where your partner may be mistreating you.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: It allows you to leave a crappy situation if you
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: don't feel comfortable and safe where you're living. Money gives
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: you the power to make the decisions to live your
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: best life. And if you don't have it, you don't
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: have those options. So you don't have to be focused
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: about the money, but you better be focused about your life.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: There was one point in my life I've never shape
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: it well it's not even that big. But there was
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: one point that I was struggling financially so badly that
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: I needed a root can now. And I went to
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: the dentist and it was twenty five hundred dollars and
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I was like, I have to stay in pain. I
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: cannot afford this root canal. And I was crying in
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: my car. My dad was a dentist. Okay, he's retired,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: so I was like, I can't even believe that I
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: can't afford something for my health, Like this is brutal.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: It changed my whole life. I never wanted to be
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: in that position again.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: But like, I hear what you're saying in terms of
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: options in nice shoes, but like it's also stuff you
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: don't think about, like your apartment floods, you need a
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: root canal, like all the SOS stuff.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: And it's so funny because I have two stories of
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: like a moment that was my turning point moment, but
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: also a happy story, which is one time when I
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: was in like end of middle school, early high school,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: I went to the mall and me and my girlfriend
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: we bought these rip jeens from like Abercrombie and Fitch.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: They were so expensive. They weren't even that expensive. They
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: were like thirty five dollars. I came home and at
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: the time, it was roughly eighth nine, so my parents
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: were in a very tough financial position. And I had
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: the receipt for the jeans in the bag, and my
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: mom found and she started World War three and she
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: was like, you have no idea the value of a dollar.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: You are so irresponsible, blah blah blah blah. All I
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: could think to say was, well, my friend got a
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: pair too, And she said to me, well, her das
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: a lawyer, your family is not millionaires. We can't afford these.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: And I ran up to my room. I slammed the door.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: I felt so unworthy. I felt so vulnerable and sad that, like,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: because my family wasn't, you know, well off, that I
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: didn't deserve these jeans that I wanted so badly. And
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: I made a decision then and there I was like,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be rich. I'm going to be so rich.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: No one is ever going to tell me that I
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: can't buy rip jeans ever again. You know, it was
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: never about the jeans, but I started to build healthier
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: financial habits as an adult, and it was the day
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: of my twenty fifth birthday, and I'd woken up from
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: a nap. I didn't want to get too drunk at
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: the bar too fast, so I was like, I'm gonna
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: make myself a little sandwich, and I had this crusty baguette.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: I take this bread knife and I see a little
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: piece of my finger fall onto the counter. Oh my god,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: all I can And by the way, my nail polish
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: at the time was black gel so it's just a
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: little piece of like black gel on, like a little
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: like flesh colored piece of like, you know, it's weird.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: And I'm looking down at this and my finger obviously
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: starts profusely bleeding. All I can think to say at
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: the time my boyfriend, my now husband, I'm like, I
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: think I need to go to the emergency room, and
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: he's like, oh no, takes me in the emergence room.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: As up being the worst birthday of my life. Literally,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: worst birthday party ever, shout out Mount sign A hospital
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: to add insult injury. It ended up being like a
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: sixteen thousand dollars bill, and even with insurance, it was
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: like thirteen hundred dollars one thousand and three hundred dollars
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: and I was so grateful that I had had an
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: emergency phone that I could pay that debt off, because
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: like that's a lot of money, especially back then, like
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: my rent every single month was like sixteen hundred. Yeah,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: so like imagine one full rent payment extra that I
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: had to come up with. And look at you telling
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: me what your rent was. Because I share these details
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: with my close friends, it's true and her millions of followers,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: but that's cool. But you know, like I just think,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: like there's the story of one I had to go
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: without and when I got in trouble for wanting something
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: and I couldn't afford it, and then there was a
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: story of when I could, And it was a much
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: more satisfying feeling to know that, like even though it
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: was a complete pain to pay that for something that
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to do, I had it and it
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: was comforting.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: One of the chapters I love is about deinfluencing, speaking
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: of and You're like, we need to deinfluence ourselves, we
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: need to deinfluence the people in our lives.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Consumerism is a trap. Why did you add that? Because
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: I have so many people who DM me and wake
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: up in their thirties, forties and fifties, and they're like,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I feel like I've done everything right, and I still
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: don't have the life that I wanted, and it's such
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: a bummer. They ended up chasing a career that they
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: didn't actually like because they got a little taste of
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: that lifestyle inflation, and they were like, I wanted a
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: nicer car and a nicer apartment and a nicer whatever.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: And then they bought a bunch of stuff and they
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: look into their closet and they're looking at tens of
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: thousands of dollars of stuff, but maybe they still can't
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: get a random Thursday afternoon off to go see their
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: kid play peewee baseball or you know what, peeweet soccer. Yeah,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: and people are so focused on buying stuff that we're
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: not realizing what the money is actually for. And I
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: just think that there is a level of rampant consumerism
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: right now that's making all of us unhappy.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Will you give everybody these questions to ask yourselves before
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: you buy? You know, I love the question aspect we
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: share what they are. There's three main ones.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: I don't want to give too much away, but my
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: favorite one is before you buy something, you ask yourself,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: do I want this or do I want other people
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: to know that I have it? I really liked that question.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Why is that the one that you shared? Because so
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: much of my early twenties was buying stuff because I
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: wanted other people to know I had it, and I
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: wanted the cool girls to like me. I wanted people
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: to think I was rich, and I was going broke,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: trying to look rich, going broke broke. I think it
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: speaks to two different types of purchases, one that you'll
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: frankly rarely use and probably regret, and one that you
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: derive deep joy out of. The first bag that I
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: bought myself was a black Saffiano leather Prada bag. It
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: was blood, I'd sweat and te your money from my
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: big girl job. It was a milestone. I felt literally
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: untouchable holding that up, and it was the highest high
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: that it ever felt. Making a purchase. The bag after that,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: and the one after that, and the one after that nothing,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: You get fifteen minutes of joy and then you're like,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: h shoot, now what. I just wanted people to know
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: that I could afford all of these different types of bags.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I wanted people to know that I had the shoes
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: with the red bottoms. Hilariously, I'm wearing them now. I
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: wanted people to know that I could afford that little
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: hat with a special logo on it because it was cool.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: And I never ended up really valuing those things. But
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: something that I do value is the thousands of dollars
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: that I've sunk into my sleep. So I have a
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: special mattress that has a special grid. That's really helpful
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: because I'm a stomach sleeper. I know, very shameful. I
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: smashed my face all night. I have all silk sheets.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: I have eggzema pretty severe that I'm on an injectable
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: medication for it. So sleeping on silk sheets is actually
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: incredibly helpful because otherwise in the past, even really high
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: quality cotton sheets, I'll be scratching my skin all night.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Noise machine, blackout curtains. I want all of it. Certainly,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: not something to really be bragging about. It's not really
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: sexy to be like, look at my special bed because
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: my back hurt. It's like, that's lame, right, No one's
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: bragging about that. I don't know. I think it's cool.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: You and I are different because we're like nerds in
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: that way, But like, I don't need to tell people
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: how amazing it is for me to feel the benefit.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: I don't need to tell people about the special orthopedic
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: shoes that I bought to feel the difference.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: What about people that have an obsession with getting packages delivered?
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of people that like
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: the feeling of deliveries and packages coming to their house.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Why it's so obnoxious you have to open the package.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I'm also like not really good with knives, as we've discussed,
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Like opening the box, I'm getting a paper cut on
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: my hand. But then I have to dispose of the box.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: I have to break down the box. I have to
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: make sure all the little shrapnel is cleaned up. Like, yes,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: getting packages is like fun, but will that actually bring
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: you joy in the long term? Or would you rather
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: have some fewer packages and be able to go out
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: to dinner with a spouse or a friend on a
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Friday night and be able to spend two hours with them.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Will you feel more rejuvenated with that? Orsus that red
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: light mass that you're not using.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Well, the why of it all is interesting to me,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: and you kind of touch on this in your book,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: you talk about financial trauma, and I'm wondering if you think,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: and especially because you've had this experience as a kid
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: with that genes story, do you think there's any way
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: to not carry that over into your adult life or
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: is that what we're working out in our twenties.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: I think that's what we're working out. I don't think
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: there's a way for you to just be like I'm cured,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Like that doesn't work. Whatever financial habits your parents taught you,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: good or bad, you probably carry with you and in
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: the same way of every other aspect of your life.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: There are some things that your parents gave you that
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: are amazing, that are great traits qualities, and there are
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: other things that, like maybe we can all afford to unlearn.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: My parents were incredibly frugal. There's the saying and Ese.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: My family's from Shanghai, so it's in Shanghaianese, but it's
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: teoya yon lud Colom directly translates to money needs to
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: be used on the knife's edge or like the edge
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: of the blade, meaning you should only really be spending
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: in necessary situations on like really important stuff. Because my
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: parents are so frugal, and it has led to like
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a complex in me. Now I
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: am in a much different financial position. I'm in a
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: financial position that my parents have never been in. I
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: am very very lucky, very privileged with my money. I
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: will still compare three different websites to see if I
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: can find the cheapest pair of the genes, and then
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: maybe I will get a discount code, and then I
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: need to get free shipping. Some I've now wasted four
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: hours of my time. I bill for hours of my
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: time at hundreds thousands of hours when I consult for
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: a business. I would have been better off not saving
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: the fifteen dollars or just doing a little bit of
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: extra works, like you know what I mean. Yeah, it's
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: so ingrained. It's so deeply ingrained. And like my husband
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: was not raised that way. So he will literally just
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: go to the retailer site and buy the jeans, no
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: discount code, and pay for shipping, and it just like
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: driving me nuts. He doesn't have immigrant parents. He doesn't, Yeah,
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: there's no way he doesn't. But there are also other
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: things that like his parents did financially that like are
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: not habits that were taking on internal life.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Do you think there's any language in particular that parents
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: really need to avoid to not traumatize their kids.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Can't afford really, yeah, we can't afford this. Can't afford
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Why because every time I ask for a candy bar
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: in the grocery store aisle, my mom would say something like,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: we can't afford this. That wasn't necessarily true all the time.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe at the beginning of their careers, and when I
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: was younger, it actually was true. They were really living
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: paycheck to paycheck, but at a certain point we got
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: to a more comfortable financial situation and they kept saying that.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: So now I think I can't afford this. I can't
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: afford this. I can't afford this, when I should really
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: be thinking, will making this purchase or making this you know,
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: service higher actually help me make more money? Will it
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: actually help my business? Will it help me feel more comfortable?
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: I say, I can afford this a lot, and I
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: don't like that.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: I so understand that, and I really like trying to
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: eliminate that. There's three questions that you talk about in
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: terms of childhood and working some of this out that
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I love, which is what am I insecure about? What
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: did I lack as a child, and what could I
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: be overcompensating for now. You just talk about adding that
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: little friction point. Like you said, you don't have your
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: credit card number saved.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: The problem is it's saved and here y'all. But I
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: don't have any of them save. All of the different
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: retailers now have their own apps. Yeah, I don't have
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: any of those downloaded. Interesting because if I make it
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: too easy, I have them all and it takes so
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: much time. I know. That's literally the point. The point
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: is for you to have to be annoyed at how
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: crappy the mobile browser interfaces for this retailer's website. Ok,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: you want to be annoyed because you're like, I don't
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: like shopping on this website. It's not easy. The page
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: keeps refreshing. I can't get to the second page of
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: the items. Then when you finally decide what i'd am
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: you want? Oh shoot, I don't have my credit card.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: I'm in my bedroom. It's all the way in the
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: living room. I really don't feel like getting up. I'll
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: do this later. Later, you'll just forget. Don't worry. You
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: don't want it that bad. You're right, But if you
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: make it so fish and so funny, you're just going
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: to spend and spend mindlessly. I am okay with spending,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: but I want you to be really excited about everything
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: you spend on. Do you have any other friction points?
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Because those are good, those are interesting. I always say
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: that before you buy something online, you need to give
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: it seven days, okay, So like what I do is
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: I put whatever I want into the cart and then
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: I exit out of the tab in seven days. If
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: I'm still thinking about that thing and I need it,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: I can have it. But in seven days if I've forgotten, well,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: just save myself fifty bucks, didn't.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: I I love a good book dedication, and I found
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: yours really moving. You actually have a few, yeah, but
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: the last one is what stuck out to me. You
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: say to my future kid or kids, I didn't have
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: rich parents, but you will. I love you. I want
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: to ask you why you wrote that. But also what
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: did your parents give you that money never could? And
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: then what do you hope money will give your child
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: that you didn't have.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: So something that my parents gave me and gave me
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: every single night, is that we got to eat dinner together,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: no matter what the situation was, no matter what high
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: school activities I had going on. We ate dinner together
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: as a family every night. We didn't in front of
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: the TV. We sat at a dining table, a circular one,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: and we talked about our day. And there was always
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: something so beautiful about that because my parents actually knew
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: what was going on in my life. And I also
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: even just saw like the sacrifices they made for me,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: aside from just like the whole immigrating to this country
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: not speaking the language thing, I saw the sacrifices they
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: made for me Around food. I'm Chinese. My family is
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: from Shanghai, and in Shanghai culture, live steamed fish is
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: a very popular dish. And the way we would eat
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: this fish is I would get the body, my mom
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: would consume the tail, and my dad would eat the head.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: The head has little to no meat. It is incredibly
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: challenging to get around all of those bones. And I
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: was always given the best piece of fish. And I
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: think that like, even though my parents were not rich,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: they gave me the best of everything that they had.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: There's nothing I can do to thank them for that. Sorry,
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: I don't want to get emotional, but get emotion.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: It is such an emotional thing I almost cried the
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: other day. I was telling somebody that my mom didn't
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: buy like any clothes for ten years so that I
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: could have the cool jeans. Yeah, and it makes me emotional.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: I get it. Yeah, it's the immigrant story, Like they
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: came to a country where they didn't know anybody, didn't
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: know the language, didn't know how they were going to
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: make it work, gritted their teeth early morning wake ups,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: like we made it work. But at every turn I
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: was always their first thought. I was always the priority.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: And I feel so grateful that they do that for
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: me because it wasn't a money thing. And I love
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of the lessons that I learned from them
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: being great parents. But I think me having money is
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: going to give my child so many advantages that my
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: parents weren't able to provide for me. I'm very lucky,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: But I don't think we should all look at me
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: and be like wow, yay VIVI like I am an exception.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: I am like the survivorship bias. I was able to
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: do a lot of these things through a different medley
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: of luck, good timing, and grit. But there's so many
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: people who have the exact same stories me who don't
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: get that. For example, I remember my parents didn't go
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: on vacation for I want to say, like five years straight,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Like no days off, no vacation, nothing. They just kept
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: working for five years because each summer they sent me
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: to a accelerated academic camp. And I always joke NERD
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Camp was the first time my eyes were wide open
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: because I went to a public school, but there were
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: kids that were from incredibly wealthy families and they went
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: to private school, some of the best in the country,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: and they all had their sights set on Harvard and
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Yale and Princeton, and I was in middle school. I
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: hadn't even thought about that yet. But like for the
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: first time, I wasn't the smartest kid in the room,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: and I realized there was a whole other world out
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: there that if I wanted to be a part of,
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: I would need to get my game up. I would
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: need to be smarter. I would need to read harder books.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: I would need to be able to do more math.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: I needed to be better at science. I needed to
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: understand more. And it just opened my worldview. My parents,
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: who would only afford to send me to two weeks
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: every summer, did it for like four years and because
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: of that, they had to forego a vacation because I
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: think the cost of it was like four or five
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars. And I want to be able to provide
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: my child all of those opportunities and more. I wrote
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: all of my own college essays. I submitted all of
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: my own applications. I didn't have a counselor. Oh. I
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: had a counselor from my public school, but he was
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: also counseling kids one hundred other kids. Yeah, my graduating
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: class was three hundred and thirty people in high schoo
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: so like there were three counselors. Each of them took
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: a hundred ten I didn't have the specialized handholding to
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: help me with those applications. So I'm sure I made
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: some mistakes. I'm sure they weren't perfect. I got I
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: don't want to just say lucky. I worked incredibly hard.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: I was the valedictorian in my high school. But I
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: think if my parents had had the money to get
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: me the counselor, to help someone edit my essays, to
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: do all those things, maybe you know, my story would
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: look different.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Being valedictorian that's such a hard word for me to say,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: But being valedictorian for years.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: I said, valid Victorian, it's Validictori. Well, it did feel
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: like a valid Victorian victory that I made.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: It was that fueled partly by that Jens moment. Was
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: it like I will get myself into a different situation
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: or what was the fuel behind that?
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: I think it was the genes, but it was also
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: I told you about that summer camp that I would
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: go to in middle school, like you wanted it. There
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: were older kids, so like my first year that I went,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: I was thirteen. I was on the younger end. There
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: were kids that were like up to sixteen, so thirteen
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: to sixteen ish, and there were students that were already
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: starting to like visit campuses and think about where they
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: wanted to go to school. And I overheard these conversations
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: of like, well I need to have enough extracurriculars and
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: take enough ap classes, and like, you know, some people
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: were the valedatorian and some people weren't, and like the
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: people who were had better shots. And in my family,
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: being immigrants, it felt like education was probably the only
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: way for me to have socioeconomic mobility. And so I said,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: if I want to be rich, I got to get
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: into a fancy college. If I want to get into
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: a fancy college, I have to do really really well
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: in school. And so I took every single AP class
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: basically that my high school offered. I took thirteen AP
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: classes throughout my course. Insane, I know. And I strategically
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: designed my schedule and I started taking AP classes earlier
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: because your weighted grade point average would get to be
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: a five if you got a neigh versus a four,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: And I like, literally say, you're hacking the system.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: You like, But you kind of did that with the internet, right,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Like you went into finance and you saw the Internet
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: and you were like, I'm going to figure this thing out.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah sort of. But like for me, it was always
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: about optimizing, optimizing for the result that I wanted, and
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: when I got it, it was you work. It felt
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: like it all hit it off.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: A lot of what you're saying here really is about
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: the value of time. Well, one of the things you
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: are known for is dating and relationship finance. When you're
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: on the internet talking about dating, people eat it up.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: But they also hate me. And that's okay. You think, Oh,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: I get a lot of hate comments. What do you
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: mean I'll talk about dating and my opinions on it
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: and things like that, and people will be like, her
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: marriage isn't gonna last. But I feel like you have
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: a lot of common sense advice. What do they get
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: mad about? I'm like, oh, you know, my husband supported
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: us more in our early relationship because I didn't make
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: as much money, and now that I'm the breadwinner, like,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: I support more of this. And people are always like,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: she's rubbing it in his face. Now I'm not. It's
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: my husband is stoked. He's so excited. He's like, when
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: can I retire and start playing golf? But like, you
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: know what, we're gonna say what they want to say
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: on the internet, and I will say that's probably just
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: a very vocal minority, especially just like very like deranged,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: jaded men, like who hurd you, babe? But for the
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: most part, I would say, people do love that kind
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: of content that I make, and especially women because it's empowering.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Well, you were the first person I heard talking about
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: equity versus quality, right, is that the distinction?
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: And I thought that was so interesting.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: But you say you actually want people to I'm gonna
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: curse fuck around and find out about finances on the
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: first date yes, Vivian, I don't know. This is where
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: I may disagree. I need to yep, convince me. Please,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: How do you do this without sounding like a cuckoo bird?
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, Danielle, we're not showing up to the date
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: and being like, show me your W two. It's not
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: like that, but I do. It's your credit score. No, which,
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: by the way, a lot of young gentlemen are putting
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: their credit scores on their hinge profile right now. I've
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: heard it from my friends and I've seen it online.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: It is genius. It is genius. It makes you a
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: more eligible partner. I'm so sorry. Well, it depends what
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: your score is. Well, yeah, if they're putting it on
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: is if it's under seven hundred or is that number
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: too low? Listen, I think you need to have a
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: great or excellent credit score. It doesn't need to be perfect.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: But like, so it should be over seven hundred then yeah,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: I think so. Like I'm not saying people with lower
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: than seven hundred credit scores are undateable, but like I
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: would be working on that. If you are trying to
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: find a partner, I wouldn't be putting it on my hinge.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Prora certainly would not be advertising that. Okay, So tell
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: me on a first day. Let's role play.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: We're on a first day, yeah, okay, and we're talking
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: about the food and things are going well, and I'm
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: the guy you're.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay, what are you going to say to
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: bring up money? Okay? So, Daniel, you mentioned that you
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: work in finance. What if enough money for you to
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: retire tomorrow fell into your lap tomorrow, do you think
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: you would still have the same job or would you
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: want to do something else.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good one because it's not really asking
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: for a number, it's a mindset.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Imagine they're like, absolutely not, I would want to be
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: a you know, youth league football coach. That tells you something.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Or if they're like, actually, I really like my job
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: and I would probably still do it even if the
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: money didn't matter. That also tells you something about that person.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: That's really good. Viviana. I would go on a date
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: with you. I would want to get you and it
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: would be a really good day too. We have allowed
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: to discuss.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: You say fairly confident people are willing to get naked
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: in front of someone before they're willing.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: To talk about money.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love how you say how awkward money has
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: to be for getting naked to be the alternative?
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Literally it's crazy.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: So what's the financial equivalent of just like taking your
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: shirt off?
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, but your pants stay on? Yes, okay, you know.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: I think the financial equivalent of like fully taking your
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: shirt off, like full upper you see everything, because I
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: just assume I'm not wearing a broad in the situation,
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: I would probably talking this situation. Yeah, talking about how
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: much you make every single year really is a big step. Yeah,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: it's a big step I do. But the story the
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: way I did it was actually a really horrible story,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: but it had a really great ending. So I had
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: moved from my midtown like corporate slog apartment into a cool,
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: beautiful like Nolita walk up. Me and my girl roommate,
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: we were finally about to have our Carrie Bradshaw Sex
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: and the City story. And the first weekend she was
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: in the apartment sleeping everything. She woke in the middle
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: of the night to go to the bathroom. She flipped
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: on the lights and saw a thousand little things for me.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: How little, very little Because fun fact, the American cockroach
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: does not actually breed that quickly. It's not that big
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: of a problem. However, these were German cockroaches, and German
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: cockroaches breed incredibly quickly, so if you see them, just
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: know that there are probably tens of thousands of them
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: in your walls. So it was a full on infestation,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: and we had a get out of apartment. That's when
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: you need money. That's when you need money. That's the emergence,
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: it really is. So she was dating this guy at
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: this time and I was dating my now husband. We
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: essentially moved in with our significant others and they both
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: had roommates, and you know, the first couple nights turned
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: into a week, turned into two weeks, turn into three
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: weeks as we're trying to figure out how to move
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: our stuff out, how to fight the landlord, just what
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: can we do? And it all came to a head
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: when we realized that we didn't have the time, or
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: the effort or the money, frankly, to go to court
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: over the situation. So we paid the lease break. It
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: was eight thousand dollars four thousand or four thousand meets. Wow,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: it was all of the money that I had saved
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: from my first year of working, all of it. So
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: I had felt like I had run on a treadmill
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: in place for twelve months after working eighty hours a week.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: That is a nightmare to feel like you are no
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: better off. And I didn't even get to do anything
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: fun with the four thousand dollars, Like I didn't get
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: to go to a club and pop bottles for a night,
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: like I was paying to get out of a roach apartment.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: That was terrible, horrible. Then I had to have a
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: really hard conversation with my now husband and I said,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: I know I've been here for three weeks. I just
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: want to let you know I'm spending this much money
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: to break my lease. I don't have a single dollar
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: to pay you, and I don't know what I'm frankly
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: going to even do. I can like barely afford movers.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: This is how much I make, this is what my
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: bonus is going to be. That's all I got. And
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: my husband was so wonderful. And keep in mind, this was,
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: by the way, just like a strange man that I
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: had met. I had only known him like probably like
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: forty five days at this point, and he was like,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: don't worry, I never expected you to pay rent. And
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: since we're talking about it like, this is how much
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: I make, this is how much my bonus is. I
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: don't need your money. We're cool. It was such a
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: relief one to hear that he didn't need me to
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: pay rent. But two, once we had that, once it
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: was out in the open, I feel like we talk
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: about anything. Nothing was weird after that. Nothing was awkward
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: after that. I was like, do you have student loans?
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: And he was like, no, do you And I was
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: like no, we didn't have student loans for different reasons.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: I got merit scholarships and you know, my parents helped
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: me with a five two nine. He went to a
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: state university, so it was relatively cheaper. He was an
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: ra He paid for it through a scholarship that he
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: had gotten. But we had these big conversations. And my
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: husband and I are normal couple. We fight like normal couples,
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: but we've never thought about money. Because I had to
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: get naked with him thirty days into the relationship and
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: be like tell me. But it actually ended up having
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: a happy ending to the story.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: I think you're hitting on something really deep in relationships too,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: which is the psychology of being honest. So like I
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: think most fights start because of expectations and assumptions.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you assume you make an ass out
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: of you and me, No, truly, there's a reason that
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: saying exists, and so like you, by being so radically honest,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: avoided having any of those made up assumptions or expectations
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: that the other didn't agree upon. Yeah, but let me
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: be very clear, I don't want that for most people.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: I don't think thirty days into your relationship is when
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: you should have the full on conversation. I think you
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: can wait a little longer. Yeah, that conversation was incredibly
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: painful for me to have. It was embarrassing. I felt ashamed,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: not one good emotion until afterwards. But it was a
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: really necessary conversation at some point for us to have.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: I think I just wish it had happened maybe two
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: months later.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: What if we get financially naked and see or hear
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: something we don't like? You know?
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: I think it really depends on where you're at in
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: your life. Is it something that you want to work
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: through with this person? Is it something that they're currently
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: working through. We are adults here. I think open and
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: honest communication is wonderful, But if you are someone who's like,
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to be married and buying a home in
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: the next two years, and you're on a date with
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: someone with a credit score that starts with a five,
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: you're probably not doing that with that person. If someone's
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: got five figure credit card debt, six figure student loan debt,
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: just you know, five four phone debt, they're going to
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: have to likely manage some of that before you can
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: make other purchases in your life. And again I'm not
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: saying those people are they can the gap be though,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: What do you mean what's a gap that you can overcome?
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: That's up to each person. If that person has debt
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: but they are a high income earner, maybe they're a
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: software engineer in San Francisco, they just don't know how
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: to man their money. I think that's one conversation. But
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: if you are in deep credit card debt and you
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: don't have the income to cover it, that's a different conversation.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: It's all nuanced. But I would say you need to
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: find someone who values a dollar the same way you do.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: It doesn't need to be someone who's debt free. It
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: doesn't need to be someone who has a big inheritance coming.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: But if you are someone who is very goal oriented,
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: and you're like, I want to buy a home, I
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: want to purchase a car, I want to save up
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: for this wedding, And this other person is off just
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: like faffing about spending money on a new set of
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: golf clubs and new cool clothes and a new cool
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: car that is not an important car for the two
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: of you. It's just like a two seater coop. And
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: you guys are trying to build a family together, you
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: will build so much resentment inside of you. It's not
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: going to be a tenable relationship.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: I was dating somebody who made way more money than me,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: and we valued a dollar very differently. I was taught
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: to live below your means and he was not. And
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: it was complicated because he made more, so I didn't
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: want it to seem like I was counting his money.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: I was just thinking down the road, this is going
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: to be a problem.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: And we finally had the.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Conversation and he was like, well, you seem to be
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: good at managing it. Why don't you just manage my money.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: I can't take on more labor. Yeah, the problem is
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: you don't want to manage your money. Your face looks
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: so scared well, I think the idea in theory is
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: actually really positive that he trusted you enough to be like,
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: why don't you help me? Because that way we can
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: move toward a goal of doing this together. I think
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: that's positive. The problem was putting more unpaid labor on you.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: And also eventually, at some point it would come to
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: a head that he wanted to do something, spend his
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: money a certain way, and you would be like, hey,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: I don't think you should do that. And now he
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: resents you because he earned it. How are you going
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: to tell him he can't spend his money that he
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: made however he wants. So I think both people need
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: to both be on the same page. You could both
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: be active contributors into your family's finances.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Love how realistically you talk about it. You hear so
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: many people online just say like, you'll have a conversation.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Love this enough, you'll overcome And from the beginning you've
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: always said no, when has.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Love ever been enough? The divorce rate is what it
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: is in this country. People love each other, but people
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: are not good partners to each other. People are always
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: like I would die for you, would you budget for
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: each other, would you save money for each other? Would
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: you live well for each other? Would you eat healthy
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: for each other? Dying is like the easiest thing you
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: can do, Like you don't have to do anything after that,
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: at least to the best of my knowledge, I guess.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: But like making a responsible choice every single day is
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: a very hard thing to do. But if you want
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: something to work, you'll do it. And on the flip side,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: you're not a snob. You never say don't date somebody
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: because they made forty eight thousand dollars. I mean, if
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: I was a snob, or if my partner was a snob, frankly,
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: he probably shouldn't have been dating me. I was the
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: brokeie in our relationship for the first five years and
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: he was never a snob about it. And man, is
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: he a good angel investor? Whose look where he picked
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: me off? Now we're here, he's looking like the greatest investor.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: And it's never been about how much does this person have,
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: it's what are their genuine values and how are they
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: going to live a life and is it compatible with yours?
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: I had a girlfriend. I never kiss anybody on the
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: first date. You don't never, I've never in my life.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's a little sketchy.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: No, but so my friend Brooke, hopefully she doesn't mind
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: me saying this, always kissed the guy in the first
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: date because she was like, I wanted to see if
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: there was chemistry.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Brook, you and me sampage.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, I mean she was even like I want to
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: know if the sex is good, Like I want to know,
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: not on the first day, want to on the first date,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: but like quickly she was just more like, I want
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: to know if there's chemistry.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Do you think we should have that same mentality about money? Yes,
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: always yes, because the sooner you find out, the sooner
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: you can make an educate a decision of if it's
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: the right person or not. So should I be starting
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: to kiss people on first dates, Vivian, I think so. Listen,
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking about like a heavy makeout session with
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: like petting involved, but like goodbye kiss it's nice, okay,
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: like a Disney movie, like a little free of her
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: family as they drop you off on your front doorstep
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: tech thing.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: I'm always like, I don't know, you don't touch me,
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: Like I don't even want them to like put their
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: arm around me on like really, Yeah, I have a
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: friend who's a comedian, and he was like, you come
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: off so professional, but it's an interview.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's a problem. You need to relax. Okay.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: Anyways, I'm going to give you a scenario. This is
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: a real situation. Okay, Okay. I love the way you say.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Either you talk about money early on or you talk
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: about it in divorce school. So I know someone who
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: never made it down the aisle, but I feel like
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: this still applies, So tell me what you think. I
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: have a friend who was dating a guy she thought
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: was the one. They had talked about finances to a
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: degree because she's a planner, and they met each other's
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: parents and were planning to get engaged. She was talking
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: about a wedding the following year. Then she finds out
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: he has your breathing heavy the year. Writs out he
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: has no savings account, and when she pressed him about
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: the engagement plans, he said he was planning to buy
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: their ring with his year end bonus. When she tried
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: to help him set up a budget and get on
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: the same financial plan for their future, he shut down
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: and asked to be done with the conversation. She broke
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: up with him the next week because it was such
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: a turn off. They were together for almost a year.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: So with that in mind, tell me why you advocate
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: for treating relationships like a business.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Thousand percent. I think your friend did the right thing. Really, yeah,
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: I do, because people who do not treat their relationship
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: with the reverence and respect we give to businesses, well,
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: it's not going to work. I mean, imagine you and
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: I were in business together and you were like, hey, Vivian,
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: I actually think the budget for the way we're spending
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: on this business isn't going to work. And I'm the CFO,
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, Daniel, I do want to have this conversation.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: That would never happen if I talk to my business
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: managers and I was like, hey, the numbers on this
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: aren't looking good, and they came back and they're like,
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: don't worry about it, don't wory about it. We don't
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: want to have this conversation this week, I'd be like,
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: you're fired. Are you nuts? In the same way that
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: if you and I were to go into business together,
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: we would have a very clear outline, first and foremost,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: what are you doing? What am I doing? If you're
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: the CMO, am I the CFO. We have our roles
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: and responsibilities delineated. How much are you getting paid, how
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: much am I getting paid? How much equity are you getting?
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: How much equity am I getting? Ya da da da da.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: We need to have this all outlined in the same
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: way that in a relationship, you need to be sitting
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: down and having this conversation of how are we splitting expenses?
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: How are we going to be splitting up traditional gender
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: roles of like is one of us going to take
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: a step back if we start our family. We need
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: to have conversations with like, are we going to be
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: supporting our parents in their old age? And if that
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: is the case, that's going to come from the group budget.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: If you don't have these conversations now, it's really hard
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: to have them later on when things are already in
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: the midst of happening. Right, It's easier to have this
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: family planning conversation before you have any kids. It's easier
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: to have the are we taking care of parents before
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: somebody's parents has a fall. It's easier to do it
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: on a bright, sunny day where you and I feel
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: nothing but love for each other, versus when one of
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: us is already cheated on the other person, And now
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: we're about to go through court, and I'm just trying
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: to twist the knife. People always think it's about winning
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: in divorce court. No, it's about getting you personally the
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: best outcome possible, even if it means the other person
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: gets slightly more or has a slightly better outcome. You
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: want to optimize for your best result, well said, I
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: notice you use the word rich instead of wealthy. Yeah,
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: why do you like the word rich? I think it's bold.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: I think people talk about rich being very tacky. What's
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: the saying they're like rich yells, wealth whispers or something
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: like laying like that. It's the same word. Okay, it's
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: the same word, but a pr spin. I think wealthy
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: oftentimes is associated with old school money. You know, it's
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: generational wealth passed down. But like I know people who
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: are in generational wealth families, and that wealth is actually
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: just getting smaller and smaller and small because the next
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: and next generation don't want to work, or they're not
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: managing the money wisely, or they're spending more than the
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: interests that the money is bearing. I say rich because
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: rich is bold, it's proud, it's loud, and because I'm
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: new money I grew up without this. I have no class.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: When it comes to it, I'm going to spend with
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: what i want. I'm gonna do what I want. I
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: don't care if you turn your nose up at it.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: Maybe you think it's gaudy, maybe you think whatever. But
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: I'm not spending my money for you to like me.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: I'm spending my money to spark joy in my own life.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: And if I can't do that, then what's the point.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: When did you feel rich? I don't know if I
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: feel rich now. I think I feel rich in that
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: like I have a life that I'm really proud of.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: I have the ability to buy back some of my
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: own time now. But I think the goalposts do keep moving,
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: And I think this is a different answer than I've
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: given in past podcasts. I feel rich because I have
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: what I need, But the number does grow when I
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: realize that eventually I'm going to want to help my parents,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: that they're going to have needs that need to be met.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: The goalposts move when I think about do I want
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: to have one or two kids, and do I want
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: to be able to put them in every single extracurricular
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: that they want to do and never be able to
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: tell them know about some sort of academic summer camp
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: that they want to go to. I'm not promising that
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: I'm going to buy my kids designer clothes, certainly not.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: Y'all are going to be wearing normal clothes. But I
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: don't want to have to say no if they want
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: to go to Washington, d C. And tour all of
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: the museums. I don't want to have to say no
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: if they want to do a study abroad program. I
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: want them to be able to buy experiences. And so
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: the number does keep changing. It's a beautiful answer. Yeah,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do some rapid fire with you. Ready,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: let's do it. Most overrated rich person purchase a boat.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: I think it's such a waste of money. Frankly, Also,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: I get seasick, like I got to do the patch
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: and the bracelet and the sniffing lemons thing like. So
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: I just maybe I'm not into boats. Well, in financial
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: rule you think is outdated, I would say that if
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: you don't buy a house, you're a loser. Like I
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: think you can rent or buy whatever makes sense for you.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: But right now it is cheaper to rent than buy
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: in all major metros. If you want to buy it
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: can still be a part of your American dream, but
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: you've got to get creative. Maybe you're going to get
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: some really interesting financing. You're gonna use an FHA loan
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: or conventional ninety seven, or if you're buying in a
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: rural area, a USDA long whatever. But like the whole
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: trope of me and my husband and our nuclear family
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: of two and a half kids and our golden retriever
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: with a tire swing out front with a white pick
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: offence doesn't exist. Is soft life or myth or a
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: goal only if you buy it yourself, Like I feel
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: like there are so many TikTok trends now that are like,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: I want a soft life. I want to be Pilate's princess.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: I want to be not working on a Tuesday girl.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: If somebody in your life has the power to feed you,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: they have the power to starve you. So your soft
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: life could be a very hard one, very quick if
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: you don't have your act together. If you can get
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: yourself a soft life by making sure that your investments
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: are funding all of that, more power to you. A
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: product that you always say is worth it, you know
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: what it is. It's not even a product I get
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: LASH extensions every two to three weeks. Shout out primp
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: Daddy in New York City. I have been seeing this
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: man for longer than I've known my husband. I do
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: not skip. I see my Lash guy. It is going
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: to church. I am seeing this man Contos. So what
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: if you're not in New York, you'll go just to
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: see him? Yeah? Wow, I need it. Danielle, Well, what's
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: one thing every woman should try once? I would say
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: probably living alone. I never got the chance to, and
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: I think it's one of my bigger regrets. I think
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: living by yourself, having your own space and being entirely
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: responsible and entirely independent is just such a powerful feeling,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: very cool.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: A financial book that changed your life besides your own,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: that you think everybody should read.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: I love Richest Man in Babylon. It's kind of a
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: beginner's book. It teaches basic financial concepts through a lens
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: of like parables and analogies of ancient Babylonia, of like
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: buying donkeys to the bazar and whatever, and so it's
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: really easy to understand. It's also very thin, So like
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: if you're someone who's like scared about reading a finance book,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: grab it. It's easy. How about any book that changed
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: your life. I can't remember the author's names and I'm
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: so embarrassed, but it's called Nice Girls Don't Get the
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: Corner Office. It's a book that goes through like little
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: tips of like things you should and shouldn't be doing
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: in a corporate career workplace. Okay, that'll help you improve
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: your presence and your life and your work. I got
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: the book because my mentor gave it to me. It
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: was her copy. I've never returned it. She's probably forgot
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: about it, but like, I've never turned it, and I
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: love this book. And the number one tip that I
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: remember is never bring cookies or brownies to the office.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: And the cookies and brownies aren't just like actually a thing,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: it's like the representation of Like if you are known
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: as the woman who provides sweet treat or has candy
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: at her desk, that is the only thing you'll be
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: thought of. You'll be thought of as someone who does
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: nice things for others, versus someone who's serious, versus someone
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: who can do a deal, versus someone who is the
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: most powerful person. I was the intern who always brought cookies.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: I wish I would have had that book. Can't. I
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: love to do it.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, grab the card game. Okay, I'm so glad you're
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: here in person. Pick whichever card calls T. Can I
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: do a little shuffle first? Yeah?
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: Of course. What's my superpower? You know what it is?
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: I'm Flash from the Incredibles. I've never seen it. You've
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: never seen the Incredibles. Okay, I love cartoons. But my
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: superpower is that I'm fast. And the reason I say
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: that that's my superpower is people are always like, you're
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: so smart, You're so like decisive. No, it's not even that.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: I'm just faster than everybody. Like I do everything fast.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: I drink water fast, I walk fast. But when it
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: comes to business in the time that it took most
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: people to think through options A, B and C, I
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: already tried A and B. I knew they didn't work.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: So now I'm onto C and I can get to
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: a solution faster than everybody else. It because I move faster,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: and it's something that I'm really proud of. I think
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: that's so awesome. Where you like that as a kid. Yeah, Unfortunately,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: I'm very much someone who's like, let's do it and
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: figure it out later. And in some cases that's definitely
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: betten me in the butt. But in most cases, because
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: I've failed quickly and learned to cut bait quickly, I've
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: just been able to get ahead faster than other people. Vivian,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: you really are well endowed. Thank you. Okay, you know
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: what time it is. Today's a good day to have
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: a good day. I'll see you next week.