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RE: Clinical Research/ Trials and Skincare Products · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
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• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is Ekta, and I have an awesome topic I want to discuss today.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is something that's been very, very much on my mind, and I think that my recent interviews with some of the brand founders and the guests that I've had on has really kind of sparked my interest in this even more.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I want to get started.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, the topic here for the day is clinical trials.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know that the skincare community, especially when it comes to over-the-counter skincare products like, for example, retinol, um, that's something that a lot of people ask me about.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: We got a lot of DMs from uh listeners about over-the-counter retinol treatments and you know um anything that's really, I guess, in the skincare space, you know, a lot of people have questions about clinical trials, and that's a very valid question.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very valid concern.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: We definitely want to make sure that whatever we're using on our skin, since it is an organ, it is something that is a very complex organ, and we want to make sure that everything that's working is, you know, really tested and really tried.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: But here's my thing.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, I I think that uh the biggest problem that we have as an industry, and I'm talking about the skincare industry, is that we put a lot of weight on the on the shoulders of brand founders when it comes to the science.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, I I think that we all have to really understand that there's a role that uh each member of the community um that is making up this world of dermatology and skin health, um, both on a, you know, in the cosmetic space as well as the science space, we all have different roles to play.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for example, uh PhDs are involved in, you know, very much uh cutting-age research that is ongoing around ingredients or different, you know, ongoing therapies that are now being, you know, that are emerging, um, especially from like, you know, old Eastern medicine or you know, things that have been like long forgotten, you know, they're coming up on to the surface, and a lot of those things are now being applied in uh lab models.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that PhDs are working very hard to give us this data that you know it's kind of like a jumping off place, but when it comes to clinical trials, I think there's a lot of misunderstanding um in terms of the general consumer about what goes into it.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this is something that needs to be talked about because it's very, very, very complicated.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can tell you firsthand as somebody who has gone through the whole process of starting a clinical trial, um conducting it, and then publishing the research, it is very complex.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: You have to go through a series of events that are usually um not only time consuming, but they're very expensive.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, there is this thing called the uh, you know, an IRB approval.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And basically what that is is that you submit your proposal to a team of researchers that will then go through that proposal and figure out if the if the trial that you're trying to conduct makes any sense, making sure that there's no holes in the um overall plan that you've presented.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a very long and tedious process.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, IRB approvals can take a very long time to be cleared.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then on top of that, to be able to get the uh the you know the things that we need to run these experiments, for example, you know, if you want to do some sort of uh mouse model study, you have to buy mice that are maybe some knockout mice, which are knocked out for certain genes, or uh mice that are more susceptible to, for example, toxins, which is something I work with, like C57 mice.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you might have to work with certain cell lines, which are also things that are, you know, you need to buy through uh companies that sell to biomedical research labs, and these are extremely costly things, you know.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a reason why NIH grants funding in the millions to labs, because um most of that funding goes towards the equipment and the materials those labs need to be able to, you know, create their cell cultures and maintain the cell cultures and you know uh run things like PCR or Rustern Blots or all these different techniques that really tell us about um you know the genetic level of uh what's going on or maybe you know some other level, whatever, whatever we're looking at, whether it's you know fluorescence or microscopy or any of this, these are very, very um complex tools to use and to utilize, and and not everyone, especially um you know, brand founders, have access to this equipment.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: That is one of the biggest problems, and no one um addresses it.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that no one really wants to talk about, and it's very easy to take, you know, all the blame and put it on the shoulders of a brand founder.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I'm all about the idea that we need to hold people accountable and make sure that whatever they're selling to the general um consumer is something that is not going to harm them and it's not going to cause any um exacerbation of already pre-existing conditions, but that is also on the shoulders of consumers to be mindful and make sure that you're going to your yearly uh checkup with your dermatologist, make sure that you're following up on any kind of medical concerns that you have.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, my long story short, my whole point here is that, you know, when it comes to clinical trials, there's a lot of layers and there's a lot of missing uh pieces in this puzzle that are not being taught that's not being talked about.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um, one of the biggest ones is the role that researchers play in conjunction with clinicians.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is a very, very important aspect.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think clinicians also have to be a little bit more forward and approach their research colleagues and say that, you know what, I've got samples for my patients.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: For example, if you have biopsy samples from patients who have, you know, certain skin pathologies like rosacea or eczema or psoriasis, um, you know, it's important for you to connect with uh PhDs and people who are working on the academia level so that those studies can be uh not only done but also expedited because a lot of times the missing link between uh researchers and MDs is that we you know there's no samples, there's no skin samples, you know, from actual human beings.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's why a lot of the work is done in mice and a lot of the work is done in rats or animal models, and and that's that's a huge problem.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I I'm just trying to uh explain here that you know it's very easy to say things like on social media, like, okay, well, this brand doesn't have any clinical trials to back up what they're doing.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's no double blind studies, there's no, you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, you know, at the end of the day, do you even know what goes into a double-blind study?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know the process behind creating a double-blind study and what resources you need?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, most brands don't have millions of dollars at their disposal to just invest in all of the technology and the innovation that is needed to really carry out this work.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: And if you really want those double-blind studies, and if you really want those very, very extensive trials and studies and uh clinical, you know, um problem-solving techniques to be in place in the skincare industry, then we must all contribute.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've been a huge advocate, you know, I mentioned this in my earlier podcasts of the idea that I think that skincare companies and also um functioning dermatologists or anybody really in this space, you know, both on the medical side and on the business side, we need to really come together and maybe create some sort of a foundation or a fund that is able to provide, you know, monetary resources for these kinds of studies and create a database that is based on ingredients rather than specific products so that now you have um you know a place to go that everyone can utilize, both brand founders, dermatologists, as well as researchers, you know, that that shows you the data of that's you know out there in terms of gene expression or you know the effect that it has on um you know cell-related markers, uh, you know, certain ingredients.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, it it has to be a collaborative effort.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's the whole point here.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I hope that you know you guys take something away from this and and really understand that the world of science is a lot more complex than it seems on the surface.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of um, you know, nitty-gritty politics that go behind funding and how that funding is received.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: For example, you know, recently I had on um a phenomenal, you know, researcher.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um he works in stem cell biology, and we had this great conversation, and you know, you have to understand that the research he's done, and uh many researchers like him, there's millions of dollars that go behind just something as simple as figuring out what um you know what bio biological cytokines or or molecules affect the expression of you know stem cell uh changes that cause differentiation of stem cells or any other you know phenomena that you can think of.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's just an example.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's very, very important for us to understand that research is um, you know, it it's a system, it's a there's a system in place.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: The NIH has a very precise way that they screen projects and you know proposals that come their way.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, 90% of the grants that PhDs submit are rejected, you know, because of one small thing.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they might the NIH reviewers might think that, you know, hey, you know, you don't have enough preliminary data, or hey, your hypothesis isn't, you know, completely, you know, foolproof or whatever, you know.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot that goes behind this.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very, very lengthy process.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: So to say things like, well, this brand, I can't support them because they just don't have any clinical trials.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's just ludicrous.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: That means that you have no idea how science works on an academia level.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, for for you to say that and to just demonize brands, um, I think that's unfair.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because one thing I've learned through this journey and this making this podcast is that the people I've spoken to and the companies that I've um had the honor and the pleasure of um interviewing and bringing onto the show, these are very hardworking people.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're doing their best.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the brands and a lot of the founders and the lines that they've created have come from a very genuine and um, you know, concerned place where they want to create something that is really genuinely helpful to people.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I recently interviewed Shira Tabib from Lulab, and Shira had this amazing conversation with me about how, you know, she um basically took this this heritage and this culture that her ancestors had been, you know, uh practicing for many, many, many years and centuries, and and took all of that knowledge and that information and really tried her best to apply it in this serum that she's created that is now over the counter and it's a beautiful product.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: I can honestly tell you guys I've used it myself, you know, and that's just one example.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this goes across the board, you know, there are phenomenal chemists in this industry that do their best to just stick to the science and and formulate in the best and cleanest way possible.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very, very multi-layered uh conversation.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely something that I think we need to open up and I think we need more people at the table to talk about this.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it definitely has to be, like I said, more collaborative, more open-minded when we discuss these things.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: We cannot finger point.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's absolutely no finger pointing um that has ever led to any kind of constructive, you know, um progress.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I urge everybody listening here, whether you're a consumer or a scientist or a doctor or an editor um or anybody in the space, um, you know, ask more questions and dive deeper, you know, look deeper.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, try to understand the systems that you know are outside the realm of your expertise, and let's all come together and find better solutions.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, I think we can definitely do that.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think skincare is such a unique space because it's it falls under the realm of beauty, but it is this beautiful like junction between beauty meeting science, and for me, that's just so amazing, and I think that's what draws me so heavily into skincare and skin health.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope you guys liked my little rant.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, I would love your feedback on this.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: I would love any comments, any questions, um, any input you have, any knowledge you have that you can share with me.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, by no means do I think that I know everything, because I definitely don't.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of areas I know nothing about, and uh, I would love to invite you onto the show if you think you're somebody who knows um some a piece of this puzzle that the rest of us are missing.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, let's take this conversation further and just learn from each other.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you again, and thank you so much for tuning into our episodes.
• 13:21
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• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: We are so excited with all the support that you give us and uh the all the amazing people that reach out to us.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, genuinely, from the bottom of our hearts.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I never imagined that um the this community and the beauty community would be so amazing and so welcoming.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: So uh again, thank you, and I hope everyone is having a lovely week and has a wonderful weekend ahead.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks guys, and stay tuned for some very, very exciting episodes that are coming up.
• 13:53
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• 15:01
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