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The Primaries Will Continue Until Morale Improves · Pod Save America

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• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett. Tommy Vitor.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: On today's show, we'll talk about the war with Iran,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: which claimed more American lives over the weekend and wounded dozens,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: which the Pentagon is trying to hide. We'll also talk
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: about ICE being back in the headlines after killing people
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: in Texas and Maine. Let's talk about how the administration
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: is responding and what we know about how Trump's deportation
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: agenda is playing with voters, Latino voters in particular. We
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: also have a bunch of news from the world of
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Democratic primary campaigns. Former Maine Senate President Troy Jackson is
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: all but certain to be the Democratic nominee to take
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: on Susan Collins in Maine. There's more chaos in the
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Wisconsin governor's race. And AOC and Bernie rallied for Abdul
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: El-Sayed in Michigan as his primary against Haley Stevens heats up.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: But let's start with some big news from the weekend.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Spain's 1-0 win over Argentina in the World Cup final
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: in the Meadowlands capping off an incredible tournament. No one
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: is sadder about it ending than Donald Trump, who wasn't
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: about to let a return to full-on war with Iran
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: stop him from inserting himself into the closing ceremony.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: The president of the United States on the field. It's now,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: so they can edit him out of that. Australian broadcaster
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: at the end there.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Did you guys see the caption of the picture in
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: The Guardian?
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: No.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Where Infantino is with Trump, and it's just the two
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: of them. And the caption is, Gianni Infantino carefully explains
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: to Donald Trump that he is not part of the
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Spanish national team.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: That's about right. They're like, The energy of accidentally realizing
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: you're in the money shot of a beach wedding. You know,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: like that is what it reminded me of. They're about
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: to do it. Get the fuck out of the way.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Did you see the team that the players... were doing
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: the Trump dance and therefore really appreciating his involvement because
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Trump did this to one of them and looking confused,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: he just was like, I'm gonna.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: Milk a cow back to you. My guess is they're
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: just happy because they won the World Cup and this
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: is the best day of their life. That would be
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: my guess as to why they're happy.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: For sure, but if a monkey did a gesture to
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: me at the zoo, I'd do it back. It wouldn't
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: be a show of support for his politics.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: I might not throw my poo back at him, but.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, it's like, it's cool to go to
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: the game. I'd go if I could go.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: It's cool to present the trophy, but like, get out
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: of the way, dude. And he also did this at
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: the FIFA World Cup final in like 2025. And like,
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: you can see Infantino trying to get him to leave
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: the stage.
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  Speaker 2: He just won't do it. He just basks in the
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: glory of the cheering. Like he genuinely believes it's for him.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: I would feel like imposter syndrome and run off there.
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  Speaker 2: I think he also believes he's wanted there. Like, like
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I'm Donald Trump. Everybody loves when I'm part of their stuff.
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  Speaker 1: I'd feel imposter syndrome if I was the president of
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: the United States and the U.S. won.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: Like, I would still say something and be, like, extra proud,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: but I wouldn't get in the fucking picture.
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  Speaker 2: And especially with Spain.
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  Speaker 3: Like, the NATO summit a couple weeks ago, he said, quote,
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: I don't want anything to do with Spain.
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  Speaker 2: They're hopeless. Bad people.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: He said he called them bad people because they, like,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: didn't support the war with Iran and didn't want us
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  Speaker 3: to use their bases.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Did you see the USA Today did a piece on
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: the Trump curse?
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: The call-in at the Trump curse?
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: It was so awesome.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: So, I didn't know about all of these, but, so...
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Trump said before the World Cup final, he didn't pick
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: a side, but he said, it's hard to bet against Messi.
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  Speaker 1: Argentina loses. Trump intervenes to get the red card reversed. U.S.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: loses to Belgium. Trump shows up at the NBA finals.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: It's the only game the Knicks lose. In 2025, Trump
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: goes to the Washington Commanders game. They lose to the
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Lions 44-22. That same year, he goes to the Ryder Cup.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: The U.S. loses. They're calling it the Trump curse.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: It's so funny.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: The other thing about that Commanders game is, so he
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: goes to the Commanders game. The Commanders get stomped by
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: the Lions. And then at that same game, a Lions
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: receiver named Amon Ross St. Brown did the Trump dance.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: And then the Lions lose five of eight games and
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: miss the playoffs.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: It's even better. I think it's like, basically, there's three possibilities.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: One is that it's luck. The other is that... he
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  Speaker 2: brings a terrible energy everywhere he goes, right? That he,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: and that his- That's documented. Right, for sure. And that
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  Speaker 2: like corrupts anyone who's seen to be rooting for, you
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: can't help with someone playing, knowing that Trump is on
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: your side, allowed to infect you with the kind of
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: negativity and failure that surrounds him. I do think it's
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: worth considering the third possibility, which is much like Odysseus
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: discovering the Cyclops on his way home. Oh God. Due
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  Speaker 2: to his failure- to observe morality in the conflict in Troy.
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  Speaker 2: Trump is being punished everywhere he goes.
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  Speaker 1: Why are we all catching strays then?
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Well, that's take it up with Zeus, my friend.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Are we Odysseus' men? Are we the ones being sacrificed?
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  Speaker 2: I'm not saying the punishment is not clean, you know?
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: Can I tell you my favorite Trump sports story from
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: over the weekend? There's a golfer named Bryson DeChambeau. Did
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: you guys come across this? I saw you tweeting about this.
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  Speaker 3: He had a meltdown at the Open Championship. He got
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: a penalty for just stepping in tall grass that would
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: have gotten in the way of his swing, and he
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  Speaker 3: got a two-stroke penalty.
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  Speaker 2: So he throws a hissy fit. Deserved. He totally deserved. Deserved.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: He throws a hissy fit, and he sucks.
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  Speaker 3: He's annoying anyway. He throws his hissy fit. He threatens
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  Speaker 3: to not play the next day, basically quit the tournament
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  Speaker 3: and take his ball and go home. He takes all
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: these rules officials, makes them visit the site, and then
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: he goes back. In the midst of it, he threatens...
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  Speaker 3: to call Trump and tattle on the mean rules officials
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  Speaker 3: if they don't give him his way.
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  Speaker 2: He also shut down the whole tournament, too, right? They
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  Speaker 2: all had to wait. Hours. And they all had to
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: wait for him to be done with his fit. And
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: even the other players who were watching were like, come on, man. Yeah.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is what Trump has created. You know,
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  Speaker 1: it's like everyone knows if they're friends with Trump or
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  Speaker 1: they suck up to Trump, they can just tattle and
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  Speaker 1: get what they want or at least try to do that.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Everybody's calling the manager. I want a table. You get
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: pulled over speeding. You know, I know Trump. But sir,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: you don't have a reservation. I know the owner.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: Of the German broadcast of the World Cup final. So
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: they cut to Infantino and Trump in the box. They
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  Speaker 3: show them getting presented the trophy and the announcers go, well,
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  Speaker 3: that's a violation of all the rules. Those two are
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: made for each other, fascinated by power and by themselves, too.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Good stuff.
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  Speaker 2: Good hit. It's good stuff. Tough to hear from Germans.
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  Speaker 3: The cool part of the story that sort of suggests
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: the Spanish team would not like Trump's politics is one
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  Speaker 3: of the players, a guy named Nico Williams. His mom
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: and dad walked 2,000 miles from Ghana to Spain. She
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: was pregnant with his older brother at the time. Across
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: the Sahara Desert barefoot, managed to get into this tiny
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: bit of Spanish territory. to become citizens, and then he's
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: playing on the national team. That's probably why he wouldn't
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: like Trump's immigration policies. Yeah, wouldn't like his politics. He
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: wouldn't be possible with Trump's politics. So, unfortunately, Trump trying
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  Speaker 3: to make the World Cup about Trump did steal the
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  Speaker 3: spotlight from the tournament's real hero.
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  Speaker 1: Let's play it.
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  Speaker 4: We put on the largest sporting event in.
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  Speaker 2: The history of the world.
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  Speaker 4: And everybody, including FIFA and the White House, looks at it.
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  Speaker 4: to the FBI, to our interagency partners, to DHS, to
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  Speaker 4: state and locals, to everybody to figure out how to
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: get six and a half million people into the U.S.
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  Speaker 4: and into these games without a single major security incident.
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: We have lived up to that measure because you guys
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: have put in the time. It's truly, truly incredible. We
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: just can't say enough about the preparation and the execution.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: It's been flawless. He's in every shot. I thought this
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: was going to be like, you know, Thinking like all
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: the law enforcement officials who pulled this off, it's like, whatever,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: it's fine. Every single shot of that video is Kash Patel.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Imagine if we had a crooked all hands to celebrate
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: a year of making great content. And through it, we
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: played a montage. Of just our headshots. No one would
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: be surprised. Yeah. And when I... Hey, I gotta laugh.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Lean with the chin.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: I gotta say, so I didn't watch that video before
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: so we could see it live. My reaction to that
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: video is, who is this for?
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like, who's getting jacked up
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: to watch Kash Patel? Is it for Donald Trump?
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: Because he wants you wearing a suit, not like the
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: weird thin hoodie t-shirt thing.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: I think it's probably for Trump. It's also... he's just
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: in super defensive mode now, Kash Patel, because he thinks
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: everyone's attacking him unfairly. Right, but it's like, you know,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: you think I'm a drunk and you think I fucked
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: this up and I tweet in the middle of investigations.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: just because I try to, you know, before, before. So, like,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I think he's just like, I'm going to, we got one.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: We did one okay. And so I'm going to brag
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: about it now.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: It's interesting, though, because it's like, let's just take it
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: at face value. Let's just not even, forget the aesthetics
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: of it, which are ridiculous. Kash Patel, in what ways
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: are you responsible for the World Cup going well? Just
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: walk me through some of them.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Well, he's saying he's responsible for the World Cup, not...
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: not going badly.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: But that requires, are you, but that, that requires people
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: wanting it to go badly that he's stymied, right? Like, right. Like,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: what are you talking?
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he's feeling like the, there was, you know,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: a planned attack at the UFC fight at the white
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: house and, and they foiled that. And so he's, he's
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: probably thinking of himself like I didn't get enough credit.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I need to put out videos from now on when
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: there's no attacks.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Not enough, not enough likes and faves for that foiled plot. Um,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: it's just amazing.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Like here's me waving, getting out of my G five
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: private jet, man of the people, cash Patel. Also, the
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: one thing we know that Kash Patel.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Gotta thank his interagency partners.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: Kash Patel has been working hard on trying to arrest
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: New York Times reporters who reported on Trump's.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Air Force One.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: Did you see today that the FBI or the DOJ
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: has subpoenaed records, not only from these journalists, but from
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: their spouses and one reporter's mother?
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Yes. Got the mother's phone records.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I wonder if they'll bring that up to Trump, any
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: of the reporters in the White House Correspondents Association when
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: he's on the dais at the Correspondents Dinner.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Maybe the mentalist can... Maybe Dr. O's can, or whatever
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: his name is, O's man? Whatever his name is.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: It's a night where we're putting politics aside and the
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: fact that you're snooping on our reporters. On my mom. Yeah,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: we're just going to put it aside for the night
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: to just sort of honor being in the same room.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: You think O's could guess the mom? Yeah, it's like, yeah, well, yeah.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Why don't they just ask him for the fucking leaguer?
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I forgot it's fucking O's.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. I learned that. I learned that. I
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: learned that from a magician. Yeah, I really did. But yeah, like,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: ask him. He'll know. You should just do that. Mentalize that.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Mentalist it.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Anyway, enough of that. Trump, who just last month told
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: reporters he was skipping his son's wedding because of, quote,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: a thing called Iran, did not feel the same way
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: about attending the World Cup, probably because, according to the
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: White House... Iran is no longer much of a threat.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: And overwhelming victory on the battlefield.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: The United States has all the cards.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: The straits are now open.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: The Iranian military is now destroyed.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: We've won. Let me tell you, we've won. You know,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: you never like to say too early you won. We won.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: We won the bet. In the first hour, it was over.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Well, apparently someone forgot to tell the Iranians because they've
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: been attacking U.S. forces all over the Middle East for
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: the last nine days straight. They've killed at least three
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Americans and likely a fourth. That soldier is still officially
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: considered missing. The Iranian attacks in Jordan have also reportedly
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: injured dozens of American troops and damaged helicopters, news that
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the Pentagon has just decided not to report, according to
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: The New York Times. And if you're wondering how it's
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: possible that Iran can still pull off these kinds of attacks,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: you're not alone. Here's Fox News' Maria Bartiromo.
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: I don't understand how it's possible that Iran has the
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: capabilities to fight this way and continue to try to
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: lash out at Gulf countries and U.S. military bases because
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: the U.S. has obliterated Iran's military and the president continues
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: to reiterate that.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I'm reading these talking points and for some reason they're
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: not true.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: I love the idea of her, hold on a second,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: and we just, the camera follows her out down the
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: stairs to another room with a whiteboard and she starts
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: doing the math on the whiteboard trying to like figure
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: out how the thing is like. I don't think they're
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: telling the truth.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: The president would not iterate, let alone reiterate, if something's
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: not true like this. He would never say that.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Maybe I just haven't been asking my questions loudly enough.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Trump doesn't have a good answer, or really any answer,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: to Maria Barbaromo's question. He threatened revenge on Truth Social
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and CENTCOM announced more strikes and retaliation. But this is
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: all he said after the World Cup when reporters asked
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: about the Americans who were killed.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: We feel very badly. But, you know, those great people,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: those great patriots were out there fighting that Iran cannot
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: have a nuclear weapon. This is a far bigger job
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: that we're doing. We were doing a little job of
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: stopping them from having a certain capability. Now we're just
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: ending it. What?
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Tommy, would you make a Trump's answer there? Just a
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: little confusing. And just the general developments over the weekend.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: Well, clearly he's pulling from a deep well of empathy
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: at the top there. But but on the bigger job part,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: it's like there's I think there's two ways you interpret it.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: One is like his factory setting is stuck on bullshit.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: So he's like, now we're reopening the street. And that's
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: an even bigger message because he just does hyperbole with
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: all things. But maybe it is the beginning of a
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: bigger mission that could include like a permanent escort mission
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: with the Navy or taking territory on the coast to
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: try to like permanently.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Claim the Strait of Hormuz. I don't think we know.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: I don't think he knows yet probably what he wants
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: to do. My assumption has been that Trump does not
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: want to restart the war because he doesn't want to
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: raise gas prices right now in advance of the midterms.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: But the weekend's events show how dangerous the status quo
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: is and that Iran is learning. The Journal had a
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: piece about how they've adapted their missiles to move in
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: the sort of like terminal part of the flight where
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: they're coming down so they can evade our air defenses.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: And we still have tens of thousands of service members
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: in the Middle East that seem like they're not well
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: defended at all. And so like either way, like the
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: reporting is, It makes it sound like he wants to
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: not go back to a full scale war. But as
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: you noted, Iran has been hitting targets all over the
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: Middle East and the Pentagon is putting out statements that
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: they've hit targets in Iran for the last 10 nights
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: in a row.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: So that's not a war.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: We are. The war is restarted. It's whether he whether
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: we whether Trump wants to go so far as to
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: acknowledge that the ceasefire that has failed has failed.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: He sort of has. I mean, he's like the MOU
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: is done. Who cares? And they've told Congress they're officially
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: back in war.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: I guess the other distinction would be there would be
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: some explanation for what the strategy is behind what they're
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: hitting other than as tit for tat. Degrading. Yeah, degrading
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: capabilities generally.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is, I mean, Trump very well may not
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: want a return to full-scale war for all the reasons
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: you outlined, but this is the problem with escalation. Like
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: it's unpredictable and they strike and then we have to
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: strike back and then they strike back again. And so
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: suddenly the space for diplomacy becomes very, very small, and
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: they just keep going after each other.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Also, Americans are dying. He's at the World Cup. Their
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: group of families are having the worst experience of their lives.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Their lives are being ripped apart because Trump doesn't want
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: the war to escalate because of his political reasons. This
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: is just a blip. He's very sorry. It's very bad.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: It's so glib. But you know that if what he
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: wanted to do was escalate, if Americans had been killed
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: And he was aiming to start the war or he
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: would just declare it the greatest violence against the United States.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: The American service member are in harm's way being hurt
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: by this are purely just sort of pawns either to
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: downplay or lie about what's happening to them if it
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: doesn't suit your story about how much we're decimating the
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: military or he can use it as an argument for
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: why we need to escalate if he so chooses. This
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• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Think about Benghazi with Obama. Think about Abbey Gate with
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Biden in Afghanistan. Now, we now have more Americans killed
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: than in either of those situations. And this is one
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: where the president of the United States and his entire
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: administration have said, the Iran is obliterated. We have won.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: The mission is like, not just mission accomplished, like, oops,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: there was a banner behind Bush. This was like every
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: day they're saying that their military is destroyed, decimated. We
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: control the skies. We control the skies. The strait is open.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: And also for nothing. The stated objectives, like they haven't done,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: they haven't achieved anything. They didn't destroy the regime. They
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: didn't get the, They didn't make any progress on their
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: nuclear program. They didn't destroy their ballistic missile programs. They
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: didn't destroy the proxies.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we're in a situation where it feels
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: frustrating and unsatisfying because they don't care about getting caught
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: in those lies by the mainstream press the way every
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: other president in history has. But when you look at
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: the polling, like this is the most unpopular war in
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: modern American history. It's going to get worse as gas
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: prices tick back up. And there's just no end game here.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: Like the Iranians want to control the Strait of Hormuz.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: Trump can't let that happen. How do you sort that out?
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: And you want to talk about the Houthis now? And
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: they announced there's a blockade of Saudi Arabia.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: So the Houthis, so back in 2015, the Saudis launched
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: this disastrous war on the Houthi rebels in Yemen. Hundreds
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: of thousands of people died because of it, mostly because
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: of famine. In 2022, they announced a ceasefire and then
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: some peace talks. So Ben and I were talking about
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: last week, This kind of fragile ceasefire kind of erupted
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: because the Saudis bombed the Sana'a airport. I think they
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: were trying to stop an IRGC plane from landing back
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: in Yemen that had been at the Supreme Leader's funeral
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: in Yemen. We were kind of like, uh-oh, that's ominous. Like,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: why are we kicking back up this conflict? And so today,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: on Monday, the Houthis announced that they're going to embargo
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: Saudi ships in the Red Sea via the Bab el-Mandeb Strait.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: So that's the choke point out of the Red Sea border.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: to the east where a lot of oil.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: And gas flows.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: And so I don't know how this would work or
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: how they would implement it. But if you have the
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Strait of Hormuz closed and then access to the Red
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Sea shut off, that chokes off like another 5% of
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: the world's oil and reform petroleum products that pass through
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: that strait. And so the Saudis, the way the Saudis
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: have been getting around the Strait of Hormuz being shut
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: is they have a pipeline that goes west and south,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: and they've been pumping oil and gas out and getting
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: it out through the Red Sea. If they can no
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: longer do that, it's a huge reduction in supply. At
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: the same time, you have the Russian oil refinery capacity
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: has been cut in half due to Ukrainian strikes. You
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: have all the oil reserves depleted because of the war,
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: because we all just spent it down to try to
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: keep costs low. And then China had been limiting imports
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: during the conflict. Now they're ramping them back up.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: So you could really see a serious supply shock in
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: price increase. So one to watch.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, maybe the Houthis are not actually going to
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: go through with this and they'll try to calm things
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: down with the Saudis. But Um, this is kind of
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: like the nightmare scenario in terms of energy prices.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: And oil went over $ 90 a barrel briefly over the weekend.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: It's now in the eighties, but gas is up to
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: $ 4 a gallon again. Um, and this is right at
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: the beginning of this new phase of the war.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: And the Houthis don't have to completely control, uh, this
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: waterway to create a bunch of fear and force ships
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: to either, uh, delay, go around, uh, raise the cost
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: of insurance, what have you, right? And, you know, having
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Iran and Iranian proxies in charge of these two choke
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: points through a quarter or more of the world's oil
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: goes through is really sort of, once again, showing how
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: much more powerful Iran has gotten because of this conflict.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Even the language the Houthis used was just basically, well,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: this is, Trump is doing a blockade on a blockade
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: in the Strait of Hormuz. We're going to do a
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: blockade on a blockade on this side too. That's just
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: how it goes.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Republican the Republican Congress has done absolutely nothing to
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: rein him in on this. You have a few voted
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: for like a war powers resolution and that's about it.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: And now, you know, they have a week before they
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: all go on break until mid-September and the House is
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: trying to pass the NDAA, also the. the supplemental yeah
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: extra like billions and billions and billions of dollars more
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: which is just absolutely fucking crazy nuts billions of dollars
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: so ice is back in the news for all the
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: wrong reasons after agents shot and killed one unarmed man
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: in houston texas and another in bitterford maine both men
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: were fathers and husbands who had been living and working
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: in america for years both were driving at the time
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: and both were victims of mistaken identity by ice After
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: the shooting in Maine, DHS Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen ordered
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: a temporary pause on vehicle stops by ICE officers, a
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: pause that Susan Collins quickly took credit for, which was
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: then overturned by Trump in less than 48 hours after
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: an intense right-wing backlash to Mullen. Despite the fact that
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: ICE has arrested a record number of people since Mullen's
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: been confirmed, even hitting Stephen Miller's 2,000 arrest per day
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: quota a few times this month. This is, of course,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: thanks to the $ 170 billion that Susan Collins and her
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: fellow Republicans funneled to ICE. which seems to be giving
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: badges and guns to anyone who wants them, the ex-wife
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: of the agent who killed the person in Maine told
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: the AP that because her ex-husband has a history of
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: violent behavior and serious psychiatric issues, when he told her
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: ICE had hired him, quote, she thought he was having
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: a mental health episode and didn't believe him.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Jesus.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: This is the guy who killed the person in Maine.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: And now, according to the New York Times, federal agents
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: recently received a written notice that the FBI would, quote,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: no longer investigate confrontations with immigration agents, supposed to be
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: handled now internally through DHS. This is a report that's
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: been denied by both the Department of Justice and the
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Department of Homeland Security. So I feel like after Minnesota
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: and Nome's firing, we were all worried that nothing would
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: actually get better. It would just get quieter. Sure enough,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: even Trump's approval on immigration has sort of crept back up,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: though it's still slightly underwater. What do you make of
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: the administration response to the killings in Texas and in Maine?
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that Homan was going to be some kind
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: of a step up from Bovino and from Kristi Noem.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: The fear was they would continue doing what they were doing,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: but not as ostentatious. I do think the fact that
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: they determined that these sieges upon cities were counterproductive politically
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: was a win that continued, but that doesn't mean they
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: haven't been more competently and quietly aggressive. And they have
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: continued to put people like this out into the field.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: We already know they reduced the amount of time these
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: people are trained. They lowered their standards. They've been desperate
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: to recruit. So this is a direct result, not just
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: what the Trump administration is doing, but what Congress has
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: done to fund and give them the resources to rapidly
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: hire people who have no business using a gun, let
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: alone using a gun as law enforcement as part of
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: the federal government. You read about this guy's background before
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: he's in ICE. This is just a fucking... troubled guy.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: He had a terrible head injury. He was doing door dash.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: He was doing correction. He just was all over the place.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Violent towards his own kids. I thought that the blowback
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: to Mullen was very telling, too, on the right. Because
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: it kind of goes to the point that he's not
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: running the department, really. This is just like Miller's policies,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: and he tries to do something on his own to pause,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: and then Trump immediately just backs off.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder if Mullen got a call from Susan
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: Collins directly, because they're Senate colleagues and they probably know
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: each other. But yeah, I mean, this is officer in Maine.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: He shot and killed a man in front of his
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: three-year-old daughter. It's fucking evil.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: And it shows that the policy has not changed much,
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: but the PR strategy has. I mean, Nome and Bovino,
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: like you said, they were being pressured to make 3,000
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: arrests a day. And to do that, they would have
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: Border Patrol invade a city like an army and occupy
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: it in the flashiest way possible. That included flying Blackhawk
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: helicopters over Chicago or having little social media people filming
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: all the stuff they were doing and then releasing it
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: because they were.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Proud of it.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: And Mullen is still trying to hit 2,000 arrests a day,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: but the arrests are spread out all over the country
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: and he's less thirsty for press attention than Noam was,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: although- Probably doesn't want it.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Low bar.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: DHS is still lying about all these incidents. They're de
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: facto covering up for all these officers, but they're doing
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: it in a slightly less gratuitous way. It's not like
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Minnesota where they're saying Rene Good and Alex Preddy were
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: domestic terrorists or that Preddy was trying to massacre police, right?
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: That was the intention to massacre police was like the
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: line afterwards. And so- Trump, though, is still making it
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: clear that he doesn't care if innocent people are killed.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: He wants the dangerous practices like the vehicle stop arrest
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: to continue if it means more deportations.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: So it is.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: Like they've definitely put a less flashy shine on their policies,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: but it is still very much the same dangerous, abusive practice.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: And that you can't give in to the libs, right?
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Like you can't, if something terrible happens and there's a
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: call from your enemies to be restrained, to show any
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: kind of restraint. You can't give in to that because
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: that is what led us here, right? Like that's the problem.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: We have to prove we're really tough.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Well, the Post had a good story on this about
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: the sort of the blowback to Mullen. And, you know,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: it came from all the usual sort of right-wing media
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: online spaces, but also the Heritage Foundation. And there's people
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: in the Heritage Foundation making the point that Tommy did,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: which is they're all saying like, oh, Collins probably called
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: mullen because they're senate colleagues and this is the problem
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: with having someone at dhs from the senate because you're
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: trying to please all those people who are too moderate
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: and we have to just put you know foot on
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: the gas for the deportation agenda and it doesn't matter
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: it doesn't like we're just going to keep going like
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: stephen miller doesn't care if it's unpopular. He doesn't care
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: if people get killed. He doesn't care if what the
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: detention center conditions are. He doesn't care what he just
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: wants to do it. He just wants to get it
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: done and thinks that he is like, and the only
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: thing that's going to stop him is tremendous public pressure.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Like the kind we saw after Minneapolis or, Democrats winning
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Congress and being able to reign Trump in that way
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: with the power of the purse.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Well, look, his, his immigrant Trump's of immigration ratings were
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: in the drop precipitously around the time of, uh, the, uh,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: killings in Minnesota. They have slowly but surely ticked back up.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: They're not above 50 and they're still, you know, they're
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: not as high as they once were, but the, when
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: the attention comes off of it, it kind of, it
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: kind of reverts to a mean that, And the baked
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: in assumption, I think, on their part is people know
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: that even if he goes too far, he is strong
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: on this issue. It is a symbol of how he
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: is strong as a president. I think that is the
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: deeper reason he can justify politically continuing to do this. Yeah.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: And I think that because it's not in the news
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: and people aren't seeing the excesses of the deportation project,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Trump's deportation project, it's like they want, most people want
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: border security to And unfortunately, most people want, like, approve
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: of the deportations in general. They just think that it's,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: you know, when they don't see the excesses in the news,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: they think, well, they're deporting all the right people, right?
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: They're deporting the violent criminals and that's that. And they
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: forget about what happened in Minnesota and stuff like that.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: And you've got to, this way you're just going to
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: keep reminding people. And my people, you know, coming out
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: in Maine and Texas to protest this is important to
• 31:20
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• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's also just like a fundamental problem in, When
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  Speaker 2: 12 heinous murders committed by people who should not have
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• 31:40
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• 31:45
  Speaker 2: That just people do not pay as much attention when
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  Speaker 1: to cookunity.com slash crooked. One big question about the political
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: impact is how this plays with Latino voters in the
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: midterms and beyond. Our friend Carlos Odio at Eckies Research said,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: always reminds us that the economy, not immigration, is still
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: the top concern for Latino voters. In fact, their latest
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: poll shows Trump's approval with Latinos has significantly decreased for
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: the first time since last summer, mainly because his ratings
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: on the economy and cost of living have collapsed. Dan
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: talked with Carlos for this week's Polar Coaster, which you
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: can listen to if you're a Friend of the Pod subscriber.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: If you're not, please consider joining at crooked.com slash friends
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: so you can get subscriber-only shows like Polar Coaster, along
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: with ad-free versions of your favorite Crooked shows, now including
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Runaway Country with Alex Wagner. That said, Carlos Zaneckis also
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: found that around two-thirds of Latinos think Trump has gone
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: too far on enforcement and deportation. And among Trump 2024
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: voters who are Latino who regret their vote, immigration overreach
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: was one of the top reasons cited. What did you
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: guys make of all that polling in terms of how
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Democrats should handle this issue from now until the midterms?
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think the takeaways there are Trump's approval
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: is down.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: Many Latinos now regret voting for Trump, but Democratic approval
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: is not necessarily up. So we need to treat Latino
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: voters like they're swing voters, which they are.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: They have been.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: We're still way behind where we were with Latino voters
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: in 2018. Carlos had a good message, which was basically like,
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: don't scold people for voting for Trump. You just say
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: you were lied to. Trump promised you a bunch of
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: stuff he didn't deliver. You're welcome back in the Democratic Party.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: I think that sounds exactly right. But I do think
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: it's like The thing you hear from a lot of
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: activist groups is that Democrats only show up in the
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: last month of an election. It's all GOTV messaging, turnout messaging.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: It's not persuasion messaging. It's not early enough. And I
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: think that's a lesson we need to learn this time.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, looking at immigration specifically, I just think you can
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: reflect what is true and also comes across in the polling. Democrats,
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: I think, really did have, for a long time, had
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: their heads in the sand around the difference between uh,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: believing in immigration and, uh, opposing a lawless border, right?
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Like there was just a difference. And, uh, there, there
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: was kind of a, uh, I think like, um, treating
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: people like they were pretty stupid about it. Um, but
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: now I don't think it's very hard to say, like,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: we believe in a, in, uh, uh, controlling the border,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: but you, the, they're terrorizing communities or terrorizing families. You
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: can enforce our immigration laws in a way that is
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: not cruel and capricious and violent and chaotic. And in
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: the same way, he has failed to, because of his
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: incompetence and chaos, failed to address the reason so many
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: people gave him a chance. Cost of living is up.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Gas is up. Everything is up. He's focused on all
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: the wrong things. On immigration, we have seen so much
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: chaos and so much violence and none of it was necessary.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: He was elected to do to bring down the cost
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: of living and bring some order to places where people
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: felt as though there wasn't enforcement at the border. Now
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: it's time to have responsible adults who are going to
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: make good policy and do it in a way that
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: reflects what people want out of their government without being
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: so incompetent and cruel. Yeah.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: I thought the polling was interesting in that Latino voters,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: like most voters, they care about cost of living more
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: than anything else. So that's the lead message. But you know,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: sometimes it's framed as a choice between like, do we
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: talk about that? Or do we talk about what ice
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: is doing? And, you know, Carlos and Eggie say that
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: like Democrats should lift up the stories of the people
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: who've been killed by ice. Um, and then, but then
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: makes the point, not just their wrongful deaths, but also
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: the stories of their families and contributions to their communities. Uh,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: the data shows that among Latinos who believe Trump's gone
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: too far in immigration, most say it's because of the
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: impact his policies have had on families, children, us citizens,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: and legal immigrants. Um, so there is, you know, the,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: The stories in the way that we would tell the
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: stories anyway is what Democrats should be doing. Speaking of
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: the midterms, one Republican who should be especially vulnerable on
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: her unqualified support for ICE is Susan Collins, who is
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: now likely to face Democrat Troy Jackson in November. Jackson
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: is Maine's former state Senate president who just lost the
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: 2026 primary for governor. He's also a fifth generation logger
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: from about as far north and rural as Maine gets.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: It's on the border of Canada where he's where Troy
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Jackson's from. Jackson won't officially be nominated to replace Graham
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Plattner until the party convention this weekend. But he ran
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: the table at the county level meetings where delegates were
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: chosen to the point where all of his major competitors
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: have now dropped out.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: So I. I pretended to be a dermatologist, and I
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: gave him a sort of head-to-toe mole check, and he's clear.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: So no moles and nothing else. So I just, I
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: had to, you know, put on the stethoscope, that whole thing.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: You know, he kept on his underwear. I'm not a
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: fucking maniac.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Early thoughts on Troy Jackson, who's always been our favorite
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: in this race, who we always thought would.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Be the Senate candidate. I have no thoughts on Troy Jackson.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: I'm going to spend a little more time looking.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: I have thoughts on huge credit to the main Democratic
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: Party for throwing together a process this quickly.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: That must be hard. If Jackson gets it, hopefully that
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: will go a long.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Way towards bringing along the Plattner voters, who are probably
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: pretty pissed off, and the volunteers who were left hanging
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: when he withdrew.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: We're still in a tough spot.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: Plattner left us a mess. We're behind in fundraising. We're
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: behind in name ID. Uh, hopefully now this can become
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: a referendum on Donald Trump and how voting for Susan
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: Collins is a vote for the Donald Trump agenda.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it seems like he's, um, already moving towards that, uh,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: talking all about Susan Collins and, and, and it's what
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: could have been a very contentious couple of weeks here. Yeah.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: They figured it out.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: They figured it out. Like credit to the main democratic
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: party credit to all of, uh, Troy Jackson's challengers to
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: who like, instead of hanging into the convention of all
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: dropped out and are all supporting him now, which is great.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: just so people know who Drury Jackson is. Um, he,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: so he was state Senate president. He was reelected, um,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: in last in 2022 and one of the reddest, reddest
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: parts of Maine. Uh, I looked up there in the
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: first district, the state Senate district registration. There is 36% Republican,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: 19% Democrat, 45% no party preference. Okay. So that is, uh, independent.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: That is an achievement, uh, winning, winning that district. Um,
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: internal polls, there's only been a few internal polls with
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: him and Collins. They have him tied or slightly ahead.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: So it's too early for that. Um, he's got pretty
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: much all of Graham Platner's positions. Um, he doesn't, maybe.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Well, some of his older positions, sort of just more
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: recent political ones, I'd say probably.
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Political positions, political positions. Um, maybe, maybe not as, maybe
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: not quite as charismatic as, uh, as, as, you know,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: he's a little, he's a little, little gruffer. You know what?
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: We'll see.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: He came in third for governor and used to be
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: very conservative on abortion and gay rights. And over the years,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: now he gets like 100% ratings from abortion and gay
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: rights groups.
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: Great.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: So he's sort of changed over time.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: I realize our process is not ideal, but in South Carolina,
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: Republicans are like, hey, Lindsey Graham, you're dead.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: What if your sister just takes over? That's weird. Hey,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: we're in the market for a Lindsey Graham in a wig.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: That's so weird. They're just handing a Senate seat to
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Lindsey Graham's sister? Yeah.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: And so there hasn't been a lot of like... you
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: didn't give us a process. Why did you give us
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: this guy? I think for Troy Jackson, it's like, it's
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: name ID, right? Like people don't, I don't think even
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: people in Maine, right? Like you're the state Senate. Does
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: anyone know the state Senate president? I don't even know
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: who the head of the legislature is here. And an
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: assembly is in California.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: Do you guys going to be very complicated? I'm not
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: doing pop quizzes today.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: Just so folks know, it's not just the Lindsey Graham
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: sister is, is, finishing out the seat she's announcing she's
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: going to run for it i.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Know and i just want to be clear we don't
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: know for you know maybe she has great and interest
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: like she works with the blind i don't know gotta
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: there's a chance let's just let's just be cool we've
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: loved we always thought lindsey graham's sister was a reasonable
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: person who could have a conversation with let's give her
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: a chance before she if you discover that she makes
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: lauren bobert look like hakeem jeffries.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Nancy Mace has dropped out of that race and
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: won't be running now.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: It's so funny.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: She said she'll continue to shitpost. She literally said that.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: That's great. She posted, just when I thought I was out,
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: they pulled me back in from Godfather Part 3. The
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: least requested person ever being like, fine, I'll do it.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: They being yourself? Right. The voices?
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Turns out Maine isn't the only speed bump on the
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: road to a blue wave. The Wisconsin gubernatorial primary just
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: got a little jolt over the weekend when Lieutenant Governor
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Sarah Rodriguez ended her campaign. after revealing serious financial mismanagement
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: by her campaign manager. She was one of the leading
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: candidates in the polls. Her dropping out set off a
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: panic among the state's more moderate and establishment Democrats, who
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: are worried that Francesca Hong, the DSA-backed candidate who's leading
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: in the polls, won't be able to win in November. So,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: even though former Lieutenant Governor and Senate candidate Mandela Barnes
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: is still close to Hong in the polls, Wisconsin Democrats
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: convinced Milwaukee County Executive David Crowley who'd ended his own
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: campaign a week earlier to get back in the race.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: And then Governor Tony Evers, who had been staying out
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: of the primary, endorsed Crowley. Seems like they got everything
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: under control up there in Wisconsin, huh?
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: I keyed into this because when I saw the Sarah
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Rodriguez press conference, and I was watching this video, and
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: I really hadn't been paying close attention to this primary,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: to be honest. But then I watched the video, and
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: just someone at the podium being like, here is when
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: I found out we were being robbed. Here is when
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: I found out there was not enough money here and there.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Then I realized there was a problem over here. And
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh boy, I mean, I guess it's
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: good to get ahead of this, but I don't know
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: how you can win a campaign for governor when you're
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: just getting, when your finances are so fucked.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: I still feel like I'm missing something in the Sarah
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: Rodriguez story. The campaign manager double counted donations so they
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: had less money than expected. Then that same staffer puts
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: out a press release that's like, we're doing a million
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: dollar ad buy. The candidate is like, Hey, where's our ads?
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: I don't ever see them on TV. Turns out the
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: ad buy was fake because again, they didn't have the money.
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: They put out their filing and she has like 35
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: grand on hand.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: So that's obviously bad, but do you have to drop
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: out for that? Well, like, I mean, you couldn't have
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: stuck it out. I just think that if you're running
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: to be the chief, something, something else, I get the argument.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: Like it looks incompetent. You can't manage your own campaign.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: You can't manage your own finances, but it's like, I
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: don't know. The primary is August 11th.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Like I feel like there must be more we're going
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: to learn about what happened. And by the way, when
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: I say Rob, I have no idea. It just sounded
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: like someone at least insinuating that money was going out
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: the door illicitly.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Anyway, she's gone.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: May her memory be a blessing.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: This is an important race. We don't want a Republican
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: as governor in Wisconsin in 2028 when there will be
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: a presidential election to certify. And so really important that
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: we replace Tony Eves with a Democrat. I'm kind of
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: confused about... Why they didn't rally around Mandela Barnes. So
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Mandela Barnes, who we've known Mandela for a while. He
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: also ran in 2022 for Senate. He came like 26,000
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: votes shy of winning in a year where it was
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: a 2022 midterms. It was a more Republican leaning year.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: And he's close to Hong in all the polls. He's
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: probably like ahead of Rodriguez in some polls. Several polls
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: show him ahead of the Republican candidate, Representative Tom Tiffany.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: And Crowley, who I don't know much about, David Crowley,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: but when he suspended his campaign, he never got more
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: than 5% of the vote in any of the polls.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: He never hit beyond 5%. And then somehow Evers went
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: out and endorsed him and not Barnes.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: I don't understand it either. Other than he lost before,
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: they could use that same playbook again. If he lost
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: to Ron Johnson, he's going to lose again. It's confusing.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Like 20% of primary voters have already cast their ballots.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: It's almost impossible that David Crowley is going to win this.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: What him getting back into the race may do is
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: assure that Hong is going to win.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, all the whispering in those articles is they
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: think Mandela Barnes is basically just as progressive as Hong
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: and therefore will have all the same problems. I think
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: they're all kind of whispering about bad polling. I have
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: no idea if that's true, but that's when like Politico
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: reports on this and stuff.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The strategy is baffling.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But it's so funny because it's one thing to
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: think Barnes is also too progressive, just like Hong. And
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: so Crowley would be the most electable candidate. Like I
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: get that argument is that I may not agree with it,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: but I get it as a legitimate argument. But then saying, okay,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: so we'll put him in the primary with two weeks left.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: He never hit 5%. And somehow he'll vault ahead of
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: the other two candidates.
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: They're just hoping that the Tony Evers endorsement will do it,
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: it seems.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: There has been a lot of great polling, but also
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: the polling's had them all pretty low, too. So maybe
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: they're hoping there's just a lot of people that have
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: made up their minds. They're coming late. Yeah, the other,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: also just to say, like, Barnes was lieutenant governor of
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: the state. He's not, like, coming from nowhere, right?
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: I'll just say this. Like, if Hong wins the primary
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: and loses the general, it is not, this is not, like,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: let's blame DSA. This is the establishment decided to put
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: in someone else, potentially split the vote with Barnes, and
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: that's where we ended up where we did.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Not to mention after Sarah Rodriguez had to end her campaign.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Right, of course.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, there was some flame out coming. I think
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: everyone in Wisconsin was just like, Jesus Christ, what do
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: we do? Right. We're scrambling. Right.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying. The Crowley thing is the
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: weird part. It's not like no one could have seen
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: the Sarah Rodriguez thing coming, but the Crowley thing is
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: just a weird thing to do.
• 48:33
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• 49:32
  Speaker 1: All right, let's end with Michigan where there's a... A
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: very chill, congenial Senate primary between former Crooked host Abdul El-Sayed,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: who the three of us are supporting, and Congresswoman Haley Stevens,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: who we're hoping to have on the show as soon
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: as she can make it work. The polling is relatively
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: sparse and a bit all over the place in a
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: race where the biggest issue dividing the candidates is Israel.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Abdul wants to end all USA to Israel. Stevens does
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: not and has the support of AIPAC, who's spending heavily
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: in this race. Abdul is also in favor of more
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: progressive policies like abolishing ICE and Medicare for all. which
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: is one reason he's been endorsed by AOC and Bernie Sanders,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: who were in the state this weekend campaigning with him.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: Here's a clip from one event.
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: They want us to think that these forces are too
• 50:19
  Speaker 5: powerful for us to overcome, that this is just how
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: things are.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: There's $ 50.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Million in this race because they're expecting a return. It's
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: an investment. They've taken to calling me dangerous. Now I
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: don't know why you would call somebody who looks like me,
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: with a name like mine, dangerous. If you're a corporation
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: wanting to buy a politician with their PAC, I'm dangerous.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: If you're APAC and want to send our money abroad,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: you damn well better believe I'm dangerous. If you're somebody
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: who wants government to work for you, I'm not dangerous.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: I might just be the one person running for U.S.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Senate who actually wants to serve you.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Thoughts on one of the last and maybe most contentious
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Democratic primary of the year?
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, I hate that this has gotten jammed into
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: the Graham Platner discourse frame, at least on social media,
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: because like Abdul and Graham Platner are absolutely nothing alike.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: And anyone suggesting otherwise is trying to smear Abdul in
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: a really disgusting way and just clock that when you
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: read these tweets and Judge them accordingly.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: Some of the issues in the race are nationalized.
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: Like there is frustration at the establishment and Chuck Schumer
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: for picking candidates.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: That's part of the race. There's Gaza. There's AIPAC spending.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: But if you watch the debates or watch them on
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: the stump, it is very local. It's a lot of
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: auto industry talk. There's a lot of anger at shitty
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: utility companies.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Everyone in the.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: Race made a video about a bridge from Detroit to
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: Canada that Trump was shutting down. They're talking about health
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: care premiums. So, look, I'm supporting Abdul because I consider
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: him a friend. I think he's really smart. I think
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: he's good on the stump. He's taken principled positions on
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: stuff I really care about. I think he'd be a
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: good senator. It's like it's no deeper than that. I'm
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: not a Haley Stevens hater in any way, shape or form.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: If she wins the primary, like I will wholeheartedly support her.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: No matter who wins.
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: This is going to be a really tough race. Mike
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: Rogers is a good, strong Republican opponent. We barely beat
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: him last time. So I think what's most important is
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: whatever happens. come August 5th, like everybody's got to put
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: down the little Twitter knives, stop nursing your little grudges,
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: making this about some bigger thing, some factional intraparty thing,
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: and let's come together and win this race. And we
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: have to do a little faster than people have been
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: doing it up in Maine because there's.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: A lot of lingering bullshit happening. You know, there's debate
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: about Medicare for all, which is largely a symbolic debate,
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: even if you support Medicare for all. The next Democratic Congress,
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: if we're so lucky to have a Democratic Congress, we'll
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: have Trump as president. Like there's no hope of passing
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: Medicare for all, but it is a symbol of a
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: willingness to go bigger, go against the establishment, be willing
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: to say something that may not be as popular broadly,
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: but shows that you're willing to fight. Now, what AOC
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: says there, like, oh, they're buying the seat. It's pretty clear.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Haley Stevens has said she will support military aid and
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: aid to Israel. Abdul will not, right? They're investing to
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: get behind a candidate who will support continuing to give
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: military aid to Israel. But that is a symbol of
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: what happens if either one of them is in the Senate.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: And put the big ideological distinctions between them aside, Haley
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Stevens is a reliable Democratic vote. She doesn't have a
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: particularly strong ideological point of view. You go to her website,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: it's a lot of nuts and bolts, bring money home
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: to Michigan and policies. She supports a public option. She
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: supports reforming ICE. She's just a reliable Democratic vote. Abdul
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: is someone who will push on the party from the left.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: That is what he would do in the Senate. Now,
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: I think that's a good thing. I think it's good
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: to have people that have a strong point of view
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: and want the Democratic Party to stand for something clear.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: But in the end, either way, neither one of them
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: is going to be able to enact any kind of
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: specific agenda. It's just a question of what you want
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: in a What do you believe a Democratic Senate should
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: look like? Which is why it becomes a proxy between
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Bernie and Schumer and all the rest.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: I do think with the Senate race, because you're there
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: for six years, ideally this person is there for a
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: Democratic president and a Democratic Congress. And then hopefully the
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: next Democratic president does make a move to expand health care.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Who knows how far they'll be able to go, but ideally.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, they will get to do, they
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: will get to set the agenda, hopefully. In some ways.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: But I think, but to your point, I mean, this
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: always happens with primaries, right? Which is because the candidates
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: are generally similar on their policy platforms. You try to
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: find differences that then become magnified in the heat of
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: a race that then make it seem like it is
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: this Manichean struggle between good and evil for the supporters
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: on either side. And look, I think in this one,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: you're right. Israel is a clear dividing line. That is
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: where their policy, I mean, She supports aid to Israel
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: with no conditions whatsoever. And he wants to cut it off.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: And even some of the other races where AIPAC has
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: played in, I think the difference hasn't been so clear.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: She's on the right edge of a dwindling minority of
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Democrats who are taking that position. Even in the Senate,
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, the vast majority of Democratic senators are closer
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: to Abdul's position now than they are to Haley Stevens.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Right. And so then the other thing you would do
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: is you'd make it about electability. And I do think
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: it's been hard to make this race about electability grounded
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: in a lot of firm data because look at the
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: polls that we've had have been from not really high
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: quality pollsters. There's been a lot of internal polling from
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: both sides. We don't have like a New York times
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: Sienna poll or a lot of really good polling. And so,
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: and in the polling that we have, um, you know,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of the race, it seemed like Stevens
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: was performed slightly better against Mike Rogers than Abdul. Now
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: it seems like Abdul has like a point or two
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: on her. or they're tied. So it's really hard to
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: make an electability argument. So therefore, now you're just fighting
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: over personality.
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: What they're really fighting about is like, they're hand-waving at
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: the policy shit, but they're like, his name's Abdul El-Sayed
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: and he's a Muslim guy.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: That is what is happening.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: It is, I mean, I'm not saying Haley Stevens specifically
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: is saying that, but a lot of Abdul's opponents are
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: When they say electability, that is what they mean.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: And that is what has gotten a little ugly.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: Well, and to your earlier point, and now they're doing the, well,
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: he's got some of the same consultants. And so Graham
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Plattner wasn't vetted. And it's like, Abdul has been vetted
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: because he ran for governor of Michigan. And that's why
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: his name ID is so high in the first place.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: And he's been like, you know. He's served in public office.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Right, he's very different. He wasn't plucked out of obscurity.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: And the big controversy was about whether or not after
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: he got his MD, PhD, he technically did a residency.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: It's very different than a Nazi tattoo and a sexual
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: assault allegation.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: But is it like both candidates now? I've seen them
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: in interviews be like, well, this race isn't really about
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: Israel and everyone else wants to make it about Israel
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: and Gaza, but we want to make it about Michigan.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: But even there... there's not a lot of like, there's
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: not a fight about healthcare. Like you're for Medicare for
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: all and I'm from the public option, let's duke it out.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: You're for abolishing ICE, I'm for reforming ICE, let's duke
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: it out on that. There's surprisingly little attacks from both
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: of the supporters at least on the policy issues and
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: more on.
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: It's more like money-driven policy issues. It's like you've taken
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: all this money from corporations or AIPAC or others, therefore you're.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: Beholden to them.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: That is kind of the proxy for a lot of
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: the political fights. But for Haley, it's like there's a
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: similarly weird thing happening online with her, which is like
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: a lot of people are plucking up speeches where they
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: think she looks goofy and sharing them. And then it
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: turns out maybe people like those speeches.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: We don't really know. Well, I was, I was into
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: like there, like there's moments where she's kind of goofy
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: and like kind of, she's like, we gotta let her rip.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: We gotta stick it to them. And like, it's kind
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: of sweet. And, uh, there's this kind of aesthetics where
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: if someone who has seen a centrist or pro-Israel does
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: something that is slightly cringe that it, or it happened
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: to Mallory McMurrow too, when she was in the kind
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: of Elizabeth, uh, warren rolled to do when they were
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: mad at her like this is so embarrassing you're so
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: embarrassing it's cringe like this is the problem is the
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: probably don't understand real people because you understand what broken-brained
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: online people think is funny anymore but if uh... uh...
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: this but abd abdul has made play cringy content and
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: but his these you know he's good for the movement
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: and so those things aren't as bad i was thinking
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: of when i'm like schumer farted on the senate floor
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: and i i do think he did not make the
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: most of it i think you should have done about
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: how we are having a gas crisis he'd What happened
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: to the man? Schumer used to be the guy at
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: the gas station. There was a moment where he could
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: have made news about it. He fucked it up.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I was just unblocking the straight of four motors.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: Look, not the only, not the only waterway they were
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: having trouble getting things through these days at my age.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: But so, but, but I knew, but if like mom
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Donnie farted during press conference, there would be stories about
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: how like, man, everybody's farting again. He's so good at this.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: He's so good at this.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: This.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: This is a master at work. He made such a joke.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: This is why we need Medicare for all he'd say
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: or something. I don't know. How did he get to farting? Because, because,
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: because there's a lot of like, right.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: Cause it's, cause it's stick it to him.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: There's a stick it to him. But, but at the
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: same time, it's like, okay, you want to be this
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: sort of like hard scrabble kind of salt of the
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: earth campaigner, but also like, your campaign is propped up
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: by tens of millions of dollars of outside money. And John,
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: to your point, like one of the reasons that debate
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: is about that outside money and about Israel is because
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: she as an establishment figure doesn't have like a clear,
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: other than just bringing money home for vision, they'll auto
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: bail it. Like what's the policy place where she feels
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: so strongly she wants to pick a fight with Abdul
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: over it?
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: Well, this is, this is, yes. And I know this
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: is naive of me, but like, as we head into
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: a presidential primary season, like, My wish is that the
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: factional war within the Democratic Party is fought over different
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: policy positions because there are plenty of differences between the
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: left and the center left. And I think sometimes what
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: the establishment center left, whatever we want to call them,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: more moderate Democrats does is they look at the progressive
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: movement and progressive candidates and they either take umbrage or
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: dismiss them or say or just like attack, attack, attack.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: And it's like, try to you got to be for something. Yes.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: You got to be excited about your candidates and you
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: got to run candidates who are exciting and charismatic and
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: have something that they really want to get done, but
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: they default to. And you can kind of hear this with,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: and I'm not saying Stevens does this, but some of
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: her supporters do. It's like, but she works so hard
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: and she's just, she's got her head down and she
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: works hard. And that's like the, that's like the thing
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: for all the establishment candidates is like, they just, they're servant,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: they're public servants and they're working hard. It's like, yeah, everyone's,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: everyone in public life who's running for office is working
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: hard and doing a lot.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Of good stuff. She's sort of a throwback.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: It's sort of a throwback campaign. Like there was a,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: not that long ago, most campaigns were like, I'm going
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: to deliver for my state. I'm going to bring home
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: the bacon. I'm going to get earmarks and pork barrel
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: and just like build a fucking airport over here.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: And you know what? If Susan Collins wins, that's why.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: And Haley, like, it sounds like that's the kind of
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: campaign she's running. Now, somewhere along the way, we found
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: this desire where we also want people to be national
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: figures and have national profiles and see value in that too.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: There's a bit of a race here.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: On the goofy content thing, like, Abdul has put out
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: videos that were so cringy that I sent them to
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: his consultants and I said, no more of this.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: Was he in a hat?
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: I don't remember which one it was. It might have
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: been more than one, but like he's put out a
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: lot of corny shit. Now, I think there are people
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: rightly pointing out that I think Haley is treated differently
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: because she is a woman. There's a lot of misogyny
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: and sexism in the messaging you'll see on Twitter about
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: these videos. They're also just kind of cringy videos at times.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: And like sometimes she's a goofy messenger and sometimes he's
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: a goofy fucking messenger.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: It's not always loaded to say that, too. Like, that's
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: the other part of this. Well, this is where, like.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: The attention economy has made people do crazy things. Yes.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Like, there's a whole range of issues that are just
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: not really that much a part of a Democratic debate. Education.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: One of the most important issues where Democrats have lost
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: ground for the last 10 years. Yep. Or five years,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: or six years. And, like, I'll say something that would, like...
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: This is one of the reasons why, if Rahm runs
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: for president... like it will be good because he will
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: be the person that clip it right. Shut up. I
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: saw Austin point right after it will be good.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: It will be, it will be cause send it.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: He will for, he will, he will, he will have
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: that kind of old school democratic politics where he like, he,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: he's not now starring on the sun. Next stream is
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: how Ari gets it back on a survivor too. Fuck.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: Because he will force debates about these questions on his
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: road to not being the nominee and like on a
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: broad range of issues that will like kind of like
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: in the way that Haley Stevens is not causing, not
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: kind of forcing questions back over to Abdul on policy questions.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: I think you need center left figures who do that
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: because we need to have those big debates. That's all.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: Well, Haley's big attack on Abdul in the debate was like,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: you haven't released your tax returns yet. And I just wonder, like,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: it was another kind of like, it felt like an
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: old school criticism of someone.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: I just wonder.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: Who called him a celebrity?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: Well, it feels like he's attacking her on money, right? Like,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: you've got all this money being spent on your app,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: so she's like, I want to do a money thing.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: It's not illegitimate. I'm just wondering if voters care. I
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: can't tell.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: We'll find out. Who knows? Speaking of Bernie, CNN reported
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: over the weekend that back in March, when he backed
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: a challenger to a Democratic House incumbent in North Carolina,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: Hakeem Jeffries called him and warned him against meddling in
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: House primaries. arguing that it's divisive and a drain on
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: limited resources that could go to beating Republicans. Another member
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: who was on the call said Sanders, quote, seemed not
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: to care.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: What do you guys think?
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Which seems, I absolutely buy that.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: The most Jolene phone call. Like, please, please. I know
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: you can take these districts. Please stop. Please stop. He's
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: my man.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: It's like, I get why Hakeem Jeffries would not want
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: divisive primaries. I can't imagine any scenario where he thought
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders... would care. I can't, it's hard to imagine
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: a conversation Bernie Sanders would care about less.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: Other than the debate, the interview I had with him
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: where he tried to get out of it a few
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: minutes early. Where he did this. That sucked.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: This is another problem with like the establishment argument is it's,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: the response is always like, no, no, no, these primaries
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: shouldn't happen or these candidates, guess what? The candidates are
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: going to run. People are going to sign up and
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: they're going to run for office and they're going to
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: be from all political persuasions. And doing the whole, and
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: Hillary started this in 2016 with Bernie, right? It's like,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: they're not real Democrats, and they don't respect the Democratic
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: Party as an institution. It's like, you know who doesn't
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: respect the Democratic Party as an institution?
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: America. And actually, and more specifically, Democrats.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: Exactly. So it's like, not the greatest argument to be like,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: how dare you, Ron, and how dare you upset our primaries.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: It's like, go beat them. Beat them with better ideas.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: beat them by saying that like their ideas are bad
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: or their ideas aren't going to resonate with most American people.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: Like there's plenty to go after before just being like.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: Don't run.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: It's a, you know, these are people trying to do
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: a hostile takeover of a failing enterprise. You know, if
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: you think they're not the right people to lead, you
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: got to make a much better case to the shareholders
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: because they're looking at your record and they're thinking, I'm
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: going to kind of take a shot on these people.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, also look at the Republican party. Did that
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: work really well for them, for all the establishment figures
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: in the Republican party when they were like, No, Donald
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: Trump can't be it.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: Good point.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: And also they're facing their own version of this. Like
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: in Arizona, Andy Biggs is probably going to be the
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: Republican gubernatorial nominee.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: He's a lunatic.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: In Iowa, my buddy Rob Sand is up against this
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: complete unknown dude whose primary work background was like working
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: for the Koch brothers for a decade. He doesn't even
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: live in the state. He's in Iowa half the time.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: He's in Kansas. That Colorado guy that's like, yeah, when
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: I was a kid, I killed people. What's up? What
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: of it?
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: What of it?
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: We all do it.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: Wait, what?
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: Go back. That's one of the all time interviews. So
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: I killed someone. What of it?
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: No, they've, they've nominated this lunatic in Iowa who wants
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: to like ban the MRNA vaccine. Uh, he wants COVID
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: vaccines off the shelf. He's like, Marxist hijacked the curriculum
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: in Iowa. There was a debt decade of Republican rule,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: but they're not backing away from him. The, the, the,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: the RGA is going to put tens of millions of
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: dollars on air behind this guy.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: So it's anyway.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Like you said, I think it's going to
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: be a bumpy couple weeks in these primaries, but once
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: August comes and goes, we're all behind the nominee, satellite,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: whoever it may be. Did you see that on the
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: sidelines of one of the events with Abdul Politico asked
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: AOC about running for president, and she said, I can't
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: say that I've ruled it out. She also talked about
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: her own definition of what Big Tent means. General thoughts
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: on how she's preparing for the possibility of a run
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: in 28? We've talked so much about elections that are
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: happening in November, we get a little treat to talk,
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: just a tiny bit of speculation before we end the pod.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a little bit of like, there's like an
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: Axios story about like, about AOC embracing kind of Obama-style
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: hope and change as sort of some, as like evidence
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: of her shift in preparation for running. And I don't
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: really think it like reflects, like if you go, I
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: think AOC has evolved as a public figure and I
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: think she has learned a lot since she's been in Congress.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: But I think part of what her appeal has always
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: been is that She's asked and she says, I don't
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: come from a working class family. I didn't come from
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: a militant leftist family. That's just reading the stage directions
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: a little bit. But her appeal has always been that
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: she hasn't sounded like what Republicans want her to sound like.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: She sounded so much more optimistic and hopeful. And she's also,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: by the way, said something similar about not ruling out,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: I think a month ago, this is going to be
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: something that keeps happening. But whether she runs for Senate
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: or president or neither... she's going to use the power
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: she has. And she is, I think, a more important
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: and attention-worthy figure as long as the possibility of running
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: for president is out there. The single best way to
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: get media coverage is to suggest that you're going to
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: run for president.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: She's smart.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: She knows that.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: This will get her attention for her ideas. I don't
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: know if she's going to run or not. It feels
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: like she might.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: The only size.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: Tent we are allowed to have is circus. Our tent
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: has got to be gigantic at this point. We need
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: to fit a lot of people underneath this thing. So
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: I'm glad she's saying that. I will say that.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: She, if I were her and I were thinking of
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: running for president, she is, and she's probably being told
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: and knows herself because she's very, very smart that like,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: you know, her risk is that she's seen as too
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: left and too extreme. And she's seen all the polling data,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: I'm sure. And if you're going to run for president
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: and you at least want to prepare for the possibility
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: that you might, I think she's doing all the right
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: things that you would do, which is that it made
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: me less than her answers, right? About like, are you
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: running or not? Like the, the way that, um, she's
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: endorsing or not endorsing, certainly she didn't endorse Graham Platner. Uh,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: she hasn't endorsed this, um, this progressive challenger in Michigan
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: in a house seat.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: And then wasn't on stage for the, like, she's like
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: being very careful.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: She's being very careful, but not in a way that
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: seems like cautious. Like she's just being deliberate in her rhetoric, right?
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: Like she said, you know, you can have a clear
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: vision for what we're trying to accomplish as a country
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: and also include everyone in it and show that everyone
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: has a place in that as well. It's just, it's not,
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: it's not the same as you hear from many of
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: the DSA candidates today. Except Mamdani, I should say.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I take her also at her word when she
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: was asked about this previously, like what she's looking for
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: is sort of outcomes, right? She's not just about her
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: and her position. And if you think in 2020, there's
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: obviously going to be a big contentious and very important primary.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: Either the vote of the left will be divided or
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: it will be united behind one figure. If it is her,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: she knows that as that person, she knows how responsible
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: and capable and careful she will be and deliberate about
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: how to hold that position. whether it is as the
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: nominee or as the person who helps unite the party
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: behind whoever the nominee would be. And that is like
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: the figure who is right to like represent like what
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: comes after Bernie is someone who, A, just truly believes
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: in this fight and representing it as persuasively as possible,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: but also like Bernie and AOC understand that if the
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: more moderate candidate wins, it is just as important to
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: get behind them. She.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: comes across as someone who takes very seriously her role
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: in the party, whatever it may be, and her role
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: in politics, which is a good thing to see. All right,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: that's our show for today. Dan and I will be
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: back with a new show on Friday. Pod Save America
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: is a Crooked Media production. Our show is produced by
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and Farrah Safari, with
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: Reed Cherlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill. Our team includes
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: Matt DeGroat, Ben Hefcote, Jordan Cantor, Charlotte Landis, Kiril Pelleviv,
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  Speaker 1: David Tolles, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Singel. Our
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.