Latest / Ambitious Podcast / EP.119: Why Half Your Team Is Secretly Job Hunting w/ Dave Garrison

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EP.119: Why Half Your Team Is Secretly Job Hunting w/ Dave Garrison · Ambitious Podcast

• 0:00
  Am I the problem? Is it me?
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  Is it the members? Half the people are looking for
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  another gig. I hire people and it feels like
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  I have increased my expenses, I've widened how many people
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  work with me, and yet I feel like I haven't reduced my
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  workload or my level of mental pressure at all.
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  If you see people coming to you saying what do you want me to do
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  and you give them solutions, you have a buy in problem.
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  Your best people leave because their voices aren't.
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  Heard I felt pretty solid. I'm a pretty open, pretty
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  vulnerable leader and I was wrong.
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  You're probably the arsonist. You're probably setting the fire
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  as if everything's a fire, and human beings get a lot more
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  stuff done than human doings 100% of the time.
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  Hello and welcome back to Ambitious Today.
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  We today's conversation is going to be so good because I will
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  tell you going into this conversation, I was pretty
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  confident initially about how I ran and facilitated my team.
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  And after this conversation, Dave humbled me in the best of
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  ways. I was joined in an incredible
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  conversation with Dave Garrison in today's episode and I have to
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  tell you a little bit about Dave 'cause he is an incredible
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  communicator, has such amazing principles and values of how he
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  runs his work. And Dave Garrison is a chief
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  navigation officer and Co founder of Garrison growth.
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  He is the author of the Buy in Advantage, which I will be
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  talking a little bit more about inside of the episode.
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  He is also a Harvard MBA, former CEO of public and venture backed
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  companies. He is a board member at
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  organizations of monumental size and globally sought after
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  speaker who has LED hundreds of top rated sessions for
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  organizations and members of the Young President's organization
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  worldwide. What makes days work so
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  different though is that he is not just talking about classic
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  leadership and management or just culture perks.
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  He is talking go buy in the energy that you see in the
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  stands at a game and where people are fully invested in a
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  common goal versus how to actually bring that into your
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  business. Because right now, which is a
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  stat we're talking about in the episode, we'll dive into deeper,
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  which was shocking to me when he said it.
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  One in three employees would recommend where they work, one
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  in three, only one in three and half of the people that
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  potentially are even on your team are already looking for
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  somewhere else to work. So if you are someone who's
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  thinking about having a team, if you maybe already have a team,
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  you're going to want to listen to this conversation.
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  And let me just share some of the highlights of what we
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  covered. We are going to talk about the
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  difference between employee engagement and true buy in and
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  why your team can seem perfectly content and yet completely
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  checked out. We talked with the four things
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  employees need post COVID in order to buy in and why none of
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  them are actually about compensation or how much they're
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  making, even though most of you are probably assuming that it's
• 2:54
  always about the money. We talked with the four buy in
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  blockers that are killing team performance including purpose
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  drift, blind tasks, lone wolf leadership, and one way
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  communication. We talk about why coming to your
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  team with a fully solved problem is actually one of the fastest
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  ways to kill initiative and what you should do instead.
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  We talk about the slow down to speed up principle and why the
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  scrappy fast moving entrepreneur hat that you typically wear
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  actually got you here could be the thing that actually is
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  taking you away from the team that you want.
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  And how the question you ask after someone brings you an idea
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  can determine whether they ever bring you another idea again.
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  Lastly, if you want to know why sometimes what you feel like are
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  your best people are leaving you and why it almost has nothing
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  ever to do with pay, you're going to want to listen to
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  today's episode. So I am joined by the absolutely
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  incredible Dave Garrison. I'm going to stop yapping so you
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  can start to learn all of the insights of this book.
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  So without further ado, let's get into today's episode with
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  Dave. Dave, thank you so much for
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  being here. Welcome to the Ambitious
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  podcast. I cannot wait to dive in.
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  I am really excited Kate, and I look forward to learning from
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  you, so teach me. Yeah.
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  Well, I have to say, guys, before we started pressing
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  record, I was saying to Dave, I have nerded out for the last
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  couple days on all of his stuff. He has some videos online,
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  obviously his incredible book, which we'll dive into.
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  And I was saying in in some ways that I was positively triggered
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  by the things he's going to share with you today because
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  obviously myself, I have a team and in diving into his work,
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  there's so much today that he's going to talk about that's going
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  to make you feel seen. And obviously, Dave, as I have
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  here, and we will also as a side note, be giving away a couple
• 4:40
  copies of this book. So as a side note, TuneIn for
• 4:43
  later in the episode, we'll tell you how to get that.
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  But Dave is the author of the Buy In Advantage and this topic,
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  the buy in, one of the things I would love Davey to start with
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  is since we're going to be talking about buy in, what does
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  buy in actually mean to you? Because I think, you know, when
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  people have teams, we hear a lot about management, we hear about
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  leadership, we hear all of these buzzwords that are thrown out.
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  And with that I'm sure someone listening is thinking, OK, what
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  does he mean when he says buy in?
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  Yeah, Kate, a great question and not necessarily obvious.
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  One of the terms we've heard bandied about for years is
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  engagement, employee engagement. And let me start with definition
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  of engagement because that will set the ground level.
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  Engagement is simply how employees would answer the
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  question. Would you recommend this as a
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  place to work? And the percentage of employees
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  engaged across North America is at a 10 year low and about one
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  in three employees say they would recommend it as a place to
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  work. And half the people are looking
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  for another gig. So buy in is a different
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  definition. Buy in is not.
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  Would you recommend it as a place to work?
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  Because I might like that you serve Tim Horton coffee and
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  Donuts every Friday. I might love what you do and
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  recommend it as a place to work. But I'm not engaged.
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  I'm not bought in. I could be engaged, not bought
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  in, but in is hey, look, look at the energy you see in the stands
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  at a Toronto Blue Jays game or a Man United versus Man City game,
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  or when all black plays. Look at that excitement in the
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  stands where people are in the collective, putting their hearts
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  and their souls and their minds against a common goal, which is
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  my team winning. Look at the Friday Night
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  Football games. Look at the enthusiasm that
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  people bring. How does that get left in the
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  parking lot on Monday morning? Buy in is when people bring
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  their full selves and they want to accomplish something greater
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  than themselves together. That's what buy in is and we're
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  not seeing it. We're seeing people say tell me
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  what you want me to do and they're really nice.
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  Tell me what you want me to do. And then when they leave they
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  say, oh, I left for a better job.
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  And it's boss says it's about pay and generally it's not about
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  pay. It didn't have to do with pay at
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  all. Well, as you said, half.
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  I actually remember you shared a stat that was kind of alarming
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  to me. You had shared in some other
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  media that I had found of yours that 53% of employees have their
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  eyes on another job. That's kind of alarming for most
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  people who have a team right now to think half my team kind of
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  has one eye looking elsewhere of is there a better opportunity?
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  Yeah. And you know, I, I know it's not
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  your employees. I know it's not my employees,
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  but I hear that from every entrepreneur I talk to.
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  So if it's not our employees, who the heck is it?
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  Who are these 53%? I want their names.
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  And so the needs that we know from one-on-one conversations
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  and from third party research, there are four things employees
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  are looking for today in order to buy in.
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  And the four things changed as a result of COVID.
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  And the four things are #1 give me a reason.
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  I need a compelling purpose that we're working for greater than
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  money. Why is this worth doing?
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  Why hang out late on Fridays when I've got other obligations?
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  Because I care. So one is compelling purpose. 2
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  is an opportunity to learn and grow.
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  That's not to be confused with I want a bigger position at the
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  company in a corner office in our title.
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  That's not what it is. I want to learn and grow as a
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  human being. The third is I want my voice
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  heard. I want my voice heard and I want
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  to work in an environment where I am seen as a human being, not
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  as a human doing so. It's recognition, it's voice,
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  it's greater purpose. It's learn and grow.
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  Those are not unreasonable requests.
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  Unfortunately, through no fault of their own, leaders have never
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  been given the tools to create that environment.
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  Well, I think there's like a, an umbrella over all of those,
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  which is actually the level of deep awareness that you can
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  have. Because it's not necessarily
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  like when you think about management, like you were
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  saying, there's this belief of, OK, people are motivated by
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  different things. So they either want money, they
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  want status, like these very surface level, they fit into
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  these perfect buckets. And if you give them more money,
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  they'll stay forever. But then all of what you just
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  noted really has a lot of, I would say like emotional
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  intelligence rooted into it, a lot less of this easy,
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  predictable structure and strategy.
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  It really requires the person with a team to know on an
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  interpersonal level what motivates that person.
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  It does, and it requires the leader to show up as a human
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  being as opposed to a human doing.
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  And many times we've not seen, you know, where do we learn
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  about leadership? We learned from the people that
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  we worked for in the past, and we learned how they did it.
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  We learned from movies and seeing military leaders, and we
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  learn from going to classes. We learn from what we learned in
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  college or whatever, and that's what we have of leadership.
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  And I've never been exposed to the leadership program that
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  tells you and shows you how to show up as a human being to
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  encourage other people to come along and want to.
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  Except for if you look at, like, Mark Twain, you know, painting
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  the fence, and his buddy comes up and says, hey, I want to
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  paint the fence, too. And that's what we need.
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  That's what leadership is, Yeah. OK, so someone listening is
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  thinking, OK, how do I know that this is a conversation for me?
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  Which I will say, I obviously have had a team for a while now.
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  And when I had found, you know, a video of yours, I thought, OK,
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  like I, I felt pretty solid. I'm AI feel like I'm a pretty,
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  pretty open, pretty vulnerable, you know, leader.
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  And I was wrong because I listened to your stuff and I
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  realized, you know what, wow, there's a lot of opportunity for
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  growth here. And one of the things that got
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  me, which I would love for you to speak to is, you know, for
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  the person who says, I feel like I have good team culture, you
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  know, I feel like people are they're getting things done.
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  We don't have a lot of conflict. We maybe have some team who I
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  feel like are pretty stable. Been working this for a little
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  while. What to you really is like, I
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  guess the the symptoms or the things that someone could look
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  for inside their company or inside their business that you
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  see are really a lack of buy in that they might be able to go,
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  OK, wow, that's happening for me.
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  So some of the symptoms they're, they're kind of obvious symptoms
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  like turnover. And so turnover is a symptom
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  that people are checking out. And the polite thing to say is I
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  left for a better job. And what the boss hears is
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  better job means more money. That's why they left.
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  We have a client who did a survey of 400 people that left
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  their company and they sent a survey to the homes of those 400
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  people to say what allowed you to leave, Pick one, give a whole
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  list in like 100 choices, Sent the same survey to the person's
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  boss that said what would have allowed the person to stay or
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  what caused them to leave. I had questions and they could
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  pick one and the bosses, almost unanimously, Almost unanimously,
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  the bosses said it was about more money.
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  The employees, some said yeah, it was about more money.
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  Most said it was about my boss and poor communications.
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  And so it's very hard to get the feedback because people aren't
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  going to say, you know what, you really aren't giving me what you
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  need because it comes across as offensive.
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  And when they leave, they're not going to say it's because you
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  were a bad boss because then they won't get a good referral.
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  So we have to look for symptoms, and symptoms are things like how
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  many times in the last week did people come up with initiative
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  on their own and say, hey, do you know what, Kate, here's a
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  way we could do this differently to really meet an unmet client
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  need or reduce costs or simplify the process.
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  Did they come up with that on their own?
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  Another is focused effort where no effort is wasted, meaning
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  nobody starts a project, hands it off, and the other person
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  says I don't have time for that now.
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  It's everybody, the collective is focused and agree on what it
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  is that we need to get done. And then the third is, are
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  people coming knocking on your door asking you for solutions or
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  it's not Are they coming with solutions themselves?
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  It's are they coming forward to you and the team to say, here's
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  a situation I face, I'm not looking for you to solve it.
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  I'd like to know about your experience.
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  That's a high trust environment and that person is bought in.
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  Very few teams will a team member come up and say, hey, you
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  know, I head up marketing and in the marketing department we're
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  facing this challenge. I'm interested in your
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  perspectives because everybody says, Oh well, I'm responsible
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  for marketing, so I'll know what to do in marketing.
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  And that's not buy in. That's I'm protecting my area
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  and I I got it. I've got it right.
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  So there's this aspect too of I'm, I'm curious about that of
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  with buy in, how does that work? If you feel like maybe someone's
• 14:13
  listening to that And they say, I feel like I have that with
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  maybe half my team, but I don't have it with the other half.
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  And this is something that I hear a lot with, you know, like
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  I have many agencies that I work with who obviously as a result
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  have pretty extensive teams. And they'll feel like 3 out of
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  the five people are really, you know, just there for the
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  mission, there for the purpose and vision.
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  But they feel like the others are not as in their words,
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  committed. And some of them believe exactly
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  to your point, they go, oh, it's because of compensation, right?
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  I don't know if it's because of the $3.00 an hour of a
• 14:47
  difference that we're paying between person A and person B.
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  And so if someone's hearing that and they feel like some of those
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  resonate for some of my team, but I feel like for other
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  people, I don't see it. How do you kind of decipher if
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  there truly is buy in or is it maybe specific person to person
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  versus? Yeah.
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  So what we're looking for is we're looking for people to take
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  the initiative and come forward with ideas and suggestions.
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  And the tricky thing for the leader is that it's how you
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  receive those ideas or suggestions that determine
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  whether or not they're going to continue doing that or just say,
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  just tell me what to do. Glad to do it because every
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  human being brings life experience to the job.
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  So if we truly want to honor every human being, we need to
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  give them an opportunity. We need to give them the
• 15:39
  opportunity to share their experience.
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  Even if they don't have any experience in our industry,
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  they've still got life experience to share.
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  So here's how that typically doesn't happen.
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  The boss comes in really excited.
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  I've been guilty of this. The boss comes in really excited
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  and says, hey, I've got an idea. Here's how we can do something
• 15:59
  differently. What do you guys think?
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  What are people supposed to say? That's a terrible idea.
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  Or you know where they're going to go?
• 16:07
  Hey, interesting idea, Kate. And they're going to ask you a
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  question. Chipping around the edges of it.
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  That's what a manager does. What a leader does is thinks to
• 16:16
  themselves. What I am trying to solve for is
• 16:23
  increasing our client satisfaction and I have an idea
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  how to do that. And the leader asks themselves
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  how do I know my idea is a great idea?
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  And when you answer that question yourself, you get a
• 16:36
  checklist in your head that my idea is great because it meets
• 16:40
  the requirements of 1234. What leaders do is they say to
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  their team, hey team, I'm really interested in increasing client
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  satisfaction and I'm interested in solutions that meet the
• 16:52
  following criteria, the following checklist.
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  Would you please give us some thought?
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  I'd like everybody to come with ideas and to share them at our
• 17:01
  Monday meeting. And so now you've just enabled
• 17:04
  them with very specifically what you're trying to solve for and
• 17:09
  what the elements of a great solution are, which is different
• 17:12
  than saying everybody, how do we increase client satisfaction?
• 17:15
  And you get random ideas and you go, no, I don't like that one.
• 17:18
  No, I don't like that one. No, I don't like that one.
• 17:20
  And so that's Step 1. And that's how leaders show up
• 17:23
  versus managers telling them here's my great idea.
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  What do you think? Then the second piece of that is
• 17:31
  when somebody brings you initiative or an idea, the
• 17:35
  second question you ask them is really important.
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  So the first question always is, Gee, that's an interesting idea.
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  Can you tell me more about it, which is different than Oh yeah,
• 17:47
  we tried that before, or I've got another idea or I can
• 17:51
  improve on your idea. That's what managers do.
• 17:54
  Leaders say, hey, can you tell me more about it?
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  Then they're going to go on and tell you more about it.
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  The second question is the important one.
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  The second question is, how did you know that that was a great
• 18:06
  idea? And what they're going to tell
• 18:08
  you is they're going to tell you their criteria.
• 18:11
  And when you hear their criteria, you can then say to
• 18:15
  yourself, is there some criteria that they are missing that I
• 18:20
  would add from my experience? And then your question becomes,
• 18:25
  if you added how long it would take for us to implement that
• 18:29
  solution, how might it change your idea?
• 18:33
  And so we have a whole chapter in the book, chapter 6, which is
• 18:37
  ask questions. It's questions, not answers.
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  That's what leaders do, but you use your experience to fill in
• 18:45
  the criteria they may not have thought of.
• 18:47
  And what you're doing then is training your team how to think
• 18:51
  based on your experience. If you give them the answer,
• 18:55
  your answer is only going to work in that situation and
• 18:59
  you'll just become the answer person.
• 19:01
  Kate, what do you want me to do about this?
• 19:03
  Kate, what do you want me to do about that?
• 19:05
  So if you see people coming to you saying what do you want me
• 19:08
  to do and you give them solutions, you have a buy in
• 19:10
  problem. Well, it's also interesting as
• 19:13
  you say that two things that come up for me when you were
• 19:15
  sharing how you respond. I think one of the pieces with
• 19:18
  how you respond is also slowing down enough to be able to take a
• 19:25
  breath before you respond. I think sometimes in especially
• 19:29
  for entrepreneurs, a lot of them are, you know, even if you have
• 19:32
  a 7 figure business, you still are a startup.
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  And so because of that, you're, you're fast and you're
• 19:36
  integrating and you're testing and you're scrappy.
• 19:39
  But sometimes like your team kind of gets lost in the mix and
• 19:43
  they bring an idea and you're trying to get there as fast as
• 19:46
  possible, solve the problem as fast as possible.
• 19:49
  No, that's not it let's, you know, move forward with X.
• 19:53
  But I wonder also how much of this is really the ability to be
• 19:59
  present and also to just like, slow down?
• 20:02
  Not necessarily slow down in how you're moving in the business,
• 20:05
  but slow down in the way that you're operating as an
• 20:08
  individual, if you have a team and the way that you're leading
• 20:11
  to even catch those moments. Because I would imagine for most
• 20:15
  people, they're thinking as you're saying that, Oh my gosh,
• 20:17
  I did on a meeting last week or I did that on a message someone
• 20:20
  sent me. They recommended A and I said,
• 20:22
  no, we're going to do B. And here's why.
• 20:25
  And it's often, I think not maybe intentional like because
• 20:27
  you're just going too, too fast. Yeah.
• 20:31
  And Kate, that is, that is the human condition.
• 20:34
  And it's because we're trying to do the best we know how.
• 20:38
  And we actually have a chapter called Slow Down to Speed Up.
• 20:41
  Because if it's all dependent on you and you're running 100 miles
• 20:44
  an hour and you don't have time to include others, you become
• 20:48
  the limiting factor in your business.
• 20:51
  And you know, when you talk about speed and just having to
• 20:53
  go, go, go, go, go. I happen to be trained as an
• 20:57
  airline transport and I'm an airline transport rated pilot.
• 21:00
  And one of the things that I learned valuable lesson is when
• 21:04
  you have a critical emergency like an engine out.
• 21:08
  If you're in A2 engine jet and you lose an engine, that's
• 21:10
  pretty important. And it doesn't mean the plane's
• 21:13
  going to crash. It just means you need to pay
• 21:15
  attention. And so you have a checklist, but
• 21:18
  they teach you the two most important words for you to say
• 21:22
  when you recognize you have an emergency is oh crap.
• 21:26
  And the reason you do that is so you just don't start reacting.
• 21:31
  The oh crap is oh crap. OK, so I need to pull out my
• 21:35
  checklist and go through the checklist as opposed to just
• 21:39
  grabbing stuff. And sometimes as entrepreneurs,
• 21:41
  we just want to grab, grab this handle.
• 21:44
  Well, what if you grab the handle of the good engine and
• 21:46
  pull that off? Right.
• 21:48
  What if you accidentally cut off the fuel switch?
• 21:50
  So slow down to speed up. It's a really important idea.
• 21:54
  And you mentioned, you know, even with that, that you feel
• 21:58
  like you have someone who brings you an idea, you potentially
• 22:01
  unintentionally shut that idea down.
• 22:04
  And then what you create is OK. Well, either I'm not going to
• 22:07
  bring solutions, I'm just going to bring questions.
• 22:11
  And then what most people experience who are entrepreneurs
• 22:13
  with teams, they go, I just feel like I've got this team who
• 22:16
  always needs me. I feel like I've hired people,
• 22:18
  which is what I hear the most is that I hire people and it feels
• 22:22
  like I have increased my expenses.
• 22:26
  I've widened how many people work with me.
• 22:28
  And yet I feel like I haven't reduced my workload or my level
• 22:31
  of mental pressure at all. And one of the things that I
• 22:35
  talk about is like with teams, the difference between
• 22:38
  delegating tasks versus ownership and, you know, to say
• 22:43
  to someone, OK, to your point, here's your checklist of things
• 22:46
  versus here's like the outcome you're being given to protect.
• 22:50
  So like, this is your baby that I want you to kind of be the
• 22:53
  leader of in this individual section.
• 22:56
  But what you noted is also, again, by being conscious of
• 22:59
  this, allowing people the ability to not have this like
• 23:03
  self perpetuating cycle of they bring an idea to you because of
• 23:07
  how you respond. It changes what they bring to
• 23:10
  you. And now unintentionally, you've
• 23:12
  baked yourself into every single part of the business just as a
• 23:17
  result, as you said, doing to like lack of being able to slow
• 23:20
  down to realize if I handle this situation differently, I can
• 23:24
  actually potentially create system change that will create
• 23:29
  this aspect of relief for me. And ironically, it's not
• 23:33
  software, it's not a documented process you're going to train
• 23:37
  everybody on. It's you treating yourself.
• 23:41
  And and the symptom you just pointed out is so typical.
• 23:46
  You know, when I get before a group of entrepreneurs, I'll
• 23:49
  say, let me ask you a question. How many of you have ideas?
• 23:52
  So I did this in, in Sydney 2 weeks ago.
• 23:54
  I said how many of you have ideas that could really change
• 23:58
  your business? Like you know the great ideas
• 24:01
  and like 95% of the hands go up. I say awesome.
• 24:05
  How many of you have time on a regular basis to get to those
• 24:09
  ideas? Almost none went up.
• 24:12
  None, which begs the question, what are you spending your time
• 24:16
  on and how well are you equipping your people?
• 24:19
  Because if they're not bought in, you perpetuate that cycle
• 24:24
  of, you know, I'll just do what you say.
• 24:27
  I'll be happy. I'll be really nice.
• 24:28
  I appreciate the paycheck. And thank you for the Tim
• 24:30
  horton's on Friday. So we call this delegation trap,
• 24:34
  flying tasks, blind tasks. And so that happens when you ask
• 24:40
  somebody to do something, you tell them how to do it.
• 24:42
  Hey, would you please call back this client and explain to them
• 24:46
  blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 24:48
  Without the context of what this relates to, how does it relate
• 24:53
  to our compelling purpose? How does it relate to our
• 24:55
  strategic objective? How does it relate to what we're
• 24:57
  trying to do and what your criteria are for knowing it's
• 25:02
  done well, not how to do it. Allow them to decide how to do
• 25:08
  it. If you've hired the right
• 25:09
  people, you shouldn't care and you've given them the right
• 25:12
  criteria. You shouldn't care how they do
• 25:14
  it because if it meets your criteria, they're going to do it
• 25:18
  their way. And that's when people start
• 25:20
  getting bought in. Well, with that, I'm curious
• 25:23
  because I think some people have this, I can't remember who said
• 25:27
  this. It's in a book, I'm going to
• 25:29
  butcher it, but it really is the basis that every business is the
• 25:33
  lit of its leadership. Every business is growth is at
• 25:38
  the lid of its leadership, which basically is that no business
• 25:42
  can ever grow outgrow the litter, the awareness, the
• 25:45
  emotional intelligence, the knowledge, the experience of the
• 25:48
  leaders who manage it or who lead it.
• 25:50
  And when you shared that I know something I hear and I think
• 25:54
  many people struggle with is, am I the problem?
• 25:58
  And so they're not sure, is it me?
• 26:00
  Is it the team member? So you mentioned something
• 26:02
  really important there, which is assuming you've hired the right
• 26:05
  person. And I feel like what I see with
• 26:08
  businesses is that a lot of people are very fast to point
• 26:11
  the finger of, you know, this team member is not getting the
• 26:15
  outcome. This team member is not driven.
• 26:17
  This team member is not a self motivator, whatever the the
• 26:21
  description may be, and the lid of leadership or the way that I
• 26:25
  guess in entrepreneurship, both your experience and also through
• 26:28
  training that I've been kind of taught is that it's always me
• 26:32
  because I hired that person. I LED them, I gave them the
• 26:36
  training or lack thereof. I gave them the clarity or I
• 26:39
  didn't. I give them the communication or
• 26:41
  I didn't. So I feel like for me, I would
• 26:43
  say I'm more on the lens of I absorb everything because I just
• 26:47
  assume there's something about this system that I have to
• 26:50
  change, otherwise nothing will change.
• 26:53
  So I almost never point the finger on the contrast.
• 26:57
  I feel that I work with businesses that often times are,
• 27:01
  it's not me because this team member is fine.
• 27:04
  So if this team member is not, you know, providing the way that
• 27:07
  I think they should, it's got to be them.
• 27:10
  And so you mentioned, you know, assuming you hired the right
• 27:13
  person, when you work with teams, is there a way or some
• 27:17
  questions that someone can ask or a way to evaluate how do we
• 27:20
  know if the disconnect we're feeling in those symptoms that
• 27:24
  you mentioned are us as the leader?
• 27:27
  Do you believe it always as the leader, or could it in fact be
• 27:31
  the individual? Yes.
• 27:34
  So Kate, look, you are part of the system as the leader.
• 27:38
  So yes, you are always part of it.
• 27:40
  It doesn't mean it's your fault or anybody's fault.
• 27:44
  It's whatever action happened is a result of the system, and
• 27:48
  you're part of the system, so yes, you're part of it.
• 27:50
  Doesn't mean it's your fault, their fault, anybody's fault.
• 27:54
  However, as human beings, we survive by explaining stuff away
• 28:01
  and making up stories about the rest.
• 28:05
  So it's where we have awareness of the stories we're making up
• 28:10
  versus what the facts are that we really gain insight.
• 28:16
  We describe this with our clients.
• 28:17
  We say, what does the camera see versus what sense do you make of
• 28:23
  what the camera sees? And when you can separate out
• 28:26
  those two, you can get really curious as a leader.
• 28:28
  So one example we give is imagine we're back in Africa and
• 28:33
  we're on the Savannah and it's all those tall grass and we see
• 28:37
  the top of the grass moving. And we've learned that that
• 28:41
  could be a lion. And we shouldn't hang around and
• 28:43
  go investigate and wait for the camera to show us a lion.
• 28:47
  We'd better get the heck out of there.
• 28:49
  And so the story is that that's a lion.
• 28:51
  Maybe a lion may not be a lion, but we make up stories to
• 28:54
  explain stuff for self protection.
• 28:56
  You know, they really didn't care.
• 28:58
  They're always showing up late because they didn't set their
• 29:01
  alarm. And we make up stories about why
• 29:04
  people do things. And what the camera would see is
• 29:07
  the employee came in past 833 mornings in a row.
• 29:12
  And our policy is we start at 8:30.
• 29:15
  Now you can make up a whole bunch of stories about why that
• 29:18
  happened and you don't know. So our opportunity as a leader
• 29:20
  is just to say, hey, are we clear that our policy is we
• 29:23
  start at 8:30. And you know, we do agree that
• 29:27
  you were not able to make that 833 mornings last week.
• 29:32
  Those are what the camera sees. And then you ask them, can you
• 29:35
  tell me about that experience and how that experience lines up
• 29:39
  against our policy? And so there's no judgement,
• 29:43
  there's just curiosity. If we come in and and start the
• 29:46
  school teacher, well, you know, you were late three times.
• 29:50
  And if you do that again, I'm going to put you on a PIP.
• 29:52
  You don't learn crap when you go through that behavior.
• 29:56
  And if you accept that you could be part of it.
• 29:59
  You know what, I'm a single parent.
• 30:02
  My kid is is sick or whatever. You don't know what's going on.
• 30:06
  And so you have an opportunity to understand as a leader what
• 30:09
  the other person's experience is.
• 30:10
  And you just might be surprised because usually the story you
• 30:15
  make up about somebody else's behavior isn't actually what's
• 30:18
  happening at all. And when you come in, guns are
• 30:22
  blazing, barrels looted, to tell them what they did wrong, you
• 30:27
  learn nothing. You just tell them, oh, defend
• 30:30
  myself. Defend.
• 30:31
  Oh, I'm really sorry, Kate. I'm so sorry.
• 30:33
  It won't happen again. But you have no idea what just
• 30:36
  happened. So it's an opportunity to learn
• 30:40
  as people see themselves. If you again, if you hire the
• 30:43
  right people and they understand your values and your goals and
• 30:46
  the measures by which success looks like, then ask them, huh,
• 30:51
  is this, can we agree this is what happened?
• 30:53
  And what meaning do you make of that?
• 30:57
  Well, I'm wondering as you say that how much of lack of buy in
• 31:01
  is lack of establishment of what it even means to be bought in,
• 31:05
  right? Like if someone comes into a
• 31:07
  team and we have this expectation of certain
• 31:09
  behaviors, like you said, how does this align with our
• 31:13
  structure, has aligned with our purpose or our approach?
• 31:16
  If that is something that you've established and that your team
• 31:19
  is clear of, then you're able to reinforce how they've met that
• 31:24
  something kind of, I guess it's back to slow down, to speed up.
• 31:27
  Something that I see is that there's an unspoken expectation,
• 31:31
  which is where the the leader, the owner of a business has a
• 31:35
  certain level of expectation, but none that have maybe been
• 31:38
  actually enforced. There's this assumption that
• 31:42
  something is obvious. There's an assumption that it
• 31:44
  should be assumed. And to your point earlier, that
• 31:48
  usually is routed from the fact that people believe that their
• 31:51
  team has the same level of knowledge that they do.
• 31:54
  So of course they see this, of course they understand the
• 31:56
  impact, of course they see the domino.
• 31:59
  And I'm, I'm wondering how much of that aspect of buy in from
• 32:04
  team can actually me from the establishment of what that is
• 32:09
  and how much of it is the maintenance or the reinforcing
• 32:12
  of it over time? So establishment is really
• 32:15
  important. And as a leader, implicit is
• 32:19
  usually what happens. Well, everybody should know
• 32:21
  this. Well, it's clear.
• 32:22
  And it's a challenge for me to slow down, to be explicit about
• 32:26
  my criteria. And when I am, people go, oh, I
• 32:30
  didn't know that's what you meant.
• 32:33
  And so when it comes to behavior on a team, the other team
• 32:37
  members are going to be the people who enforce the behavior
• 32:40
  by their reaction to what somebody does.
• 32:42
  And that's much more powerful than the leader saying this
• 32:46
  behavior is not OK or whatever. But what you have the
• 32:50
  opportunity to do starts way back at the interview process
• 32:54
  where you can share a value or your compelling purpose, which
• 32:58
  is never about money. It's why the work matters and
• 33:02
  ask people to tell you about a time that they ran into a
• 33:05
  challenge with that value at work.
• 33:07
  So let's say your value is honesty.
• 33:10
  So you can ask a question, just say, hey, I'm really curious to
• 33:12
  know. We really value honesty.
• 33:15
  It's an important value at our organization.
• 33:17
  Is there a time in your work history where you have had a
• 33:22
  challenge being honest about a situation or you know your
• 33:26
  ability to be honest was threatened?
• 33:28
  Can you tell me about that? What happened and how did you
• 33:30
  deal with it? And so ask them about behavioral
• 33:33
  based questions about the things important to you.
• 33:37
  And then similarly, if you're creating these things and
• 33:40
  finally getting explicit, ask your team, what would you expect
• 33:44
  to see if we had this value or this purpose?
• 33:47
  What would you expect to not see?
• 33:49
  And ask them to draw out the behaviors.
• 33:52
  So it's in our collective minds, not your mind only as the
• 33:56
  leader, where you get to sit as judge and jury.
• 34:00
  Yeah. Well, I'm thinking with the
• 34:02
  companies you work with, do you feel sometimes that you see, you
• 34:06
  know, we've got this vision and this mission, this purpose, our
• 34:09
  values, our guiding principles, and it lives in this beautiful
• 34:14
  yet covered in dust binder that sits in the HR department and as
• 34:19
  a result isn't integrated. Like I'm wondering how much of
• 34:24
  the culture and commitment from team that people desire and the
• 34:28
  conviction they have for the mission you're going for is a
• 34:32
  matter of the fact that we established it.
• 34:34
  We've checked the box. We've got, you know, this kind
• 34:36
  of handbook they do when they get on boarded and after that
• 34:40
  they're in. And how much of it is from
• 34:42
  establishment? How much is it?
• 34:43
  How much of it is maybe from the fact that you have this in some
• 34:47
  beautiful Google doc somewhere? But are you living to your
• 34:50
  point? Are you living and breathing it
• 34:52
  day-to-day within your business? Yeah, to your point, we did a a
• 34:57
  leaders workshop earlier this week and we asked them on a
• 35:02
  scale of one to five where 5 is all the time and one is none of
• 35:06
  the time, how often do you see your compelling purpose referred
• 35:10
  to as you make decisions and set priorities?
• 35:12
  And the average answer was like a 2 1/2.
• 35:16
  So the answer is it's sitting on the shelf.
• 35:19
  So the opportunity is if your expectation is we're going to
• 35:23
  use our values and our compelling purpose, which I
• 35:26
  wanted to find in a minute, But if you want to use our values
• 35:29
  and compelling purpose in making decisions and setting
• 35:31
  priorities, then we need to ask people what would that look
• 35:36
  like? When would we bring it up?
• 35:38
  How would we bring it up? How do we include that in our
• 35:40
  decision making and allow people to identify your team to
• 35:44
  identify on their own how they see they can use it different
• 35:48
  than you saying, OK, our new policy is we're going to refer
• 35:52
  to values in the first 3 minutes of our discussion.
• 35:55
  Let them decide, right? Right.
• 35:58
  So compelling purpose. Yeah, you'd mentioned mission
• 36:02
  and purpose, so I hear different terms being used, but the idea
• 36:07
  here is, for me, compelling purpose answers the question.
• 36:12
  Why bother? Why bother?
• 36:14
  And you know, to use icons? Walt Disney said his purpose was
• 36:19
  creating smiles. Sam Walton, the founder of
• 36:23
  Walmart, said he's about putting money back into consumers
• 36:27
  pockets. Give families more money to
• 36:29
  spend. And everything that that company
• 36:33
  does reflects that purpose. Their distribution system where
• 36:37
  they have suppliers and goods very close to their stores is
• 36:41
  very sophisticated sourcing from China, very sophisticated, all
• 36:44
  about saving money, part time employees, all about saving
• 36:47
  money per consumers. And Google's is not about self
• 36:52
  driving cars, is not about search engines.
• 36:54
  It's not about free Gmail. It's about organizing
• 36:58
  information. Their business model is selling
• 37:01
  data, but they generate data because their business and their
• 37:06
  purpose is organizing information.
• 37:09
  And so the question is, can you answer how you're changing
• 37:12
  lives, how you're changing the world because your business
• 37:15
  exists? And when you do, that is your
• 37:19
  why. That's the compelling purpose.
• 37:21
  And then ask employees how do they see themselves in it?
• 37:24
  Compelling purpose is always simple, always 4 to 6 words Max,
• 37:29
  always memorable. And people can see themselves in
• 37:32
  it and go, you know what, what we're doing is really important
• 37:35
  here. It matters.
• 37:36
  It matters to me, it matters to my Co workers, it matters to our
• 37:40
  customers, it matters to our owners.
• 37:43
  And compelling purpose is not how you do it.
• 37:45
  It's not about making money. It answers why bother?
• 37:49
  Well, to those companies you mentioned who on their kind of
• 37:52
  scale of one to five, we're at A2.
• 37:56
  When you dive into that, how are they rooting the actual purpose
• 38:00
  then day-to-day, like say, if their their true purpose is not
• 38:04
  being demonstrated or integrated, what maybe is
• 38:07
  something you see of people who are not doing it?
• 38:09
  And therefore typically a Monday to Friday, the purpose is blank.
• 38:13
  And I feel like for me, the businesses that I work with,
• 38:16
  there's such a heavy emphasis on the financials of the company
• 38:20
  and reducing costs and increasing profit margins.
• 38:22
  Right. Yeah.
• 38:24
  So I'm curious, I like when you said that drill Sergeant side,
• 38:29
  I'm like, I can see a bunch of different examples of that in my
• 38:31
  mind because I think there's just the the founder of the
• 38:35
  often times the CEO of that business believes and perceives
• 38:39
  that their team cares as much about the profit margins as they
• 38:42
  do. And so it's this, you know,
• 38:44
  money is the center of all of it or the finances.
• 38:48
  And yeah, I'm curious, what if someone isn't integrating
• 38:52
  purpose in the way you would hope them to, weekly or monthly?
• 38:56
  Annually. What typically you you see them
• 39:00
  doing as their North Star with their team?
• 39:03
  The North Star is the thing they're asked about every single
• 39:05
  week, and if it's the profit statement and the KP is, then
• 39:09
  that's what they're going to focus on.
• 39:10
  How does this impact profit in buy in world?
• 39:15
  A couple things are true. One is the KPIs and the
• 39:19
  financial results are the result of having buy in and alignment
• 39:23
  about what it is we're doing and why it is we're doing it.
• 39:27
  And so everything comes back to alignment around our three most
• 39:31
  important things we're doing because we say in the book is 3
• 39:34
  is greater than 7, seven is a laundry or a shopping list, 3 is
• 39:38
  a priority list. So we're aligned on our
• 39:41
  priorities. We're aligned on the measures,
• 39:42
  we're aligned on the values, we're aligned on purpose.
• 39:45
  Then we're all going to do behavior that lines up against
• 39:48
  those things and financials will result.
• 39:52
  If we start with financials, we've automatically eliminated
• 39:55
  the human element. Here's the irony #1 expense.
• 40:00
  You said, hey, you work with a lot of agencies.
• 40:02
  Number one expense far and away in an agency is people.
• 40:08
  So are we getting the most from that investment?
• 40:11
  Not if we don't have buy in, it's just an expense item that
• 40:15
  we need to reduce that expense item because our overhead is too
• 40:18
  high. Overhead is too high because our
• 40:20
  profit margins are too low. Well, how about if we instead
• 40:23
  reframed it to say, what would it be like if everyone in that
• 40:27
  organization brought that same energy that they do to the
• 40:31
  Friday Night Football game or the Toronto Blue Jays game or
• 40:34
  the, you know, all black game? What if they brought that same
• 40:37
  energy to work to address those things we agree are a priority?
• 40:43
  Your results would change and people would have so much energy
• 40:47
  and the financials will follow for themselves.
• 40:50
  You don't need to hammer on we need to cut costs.
• 40:52
  Well, who hired those people? Who put those costs in place?
• 40:56
  It wasn't the people. Come on, dude.
• 40:59
  Yeah, it's crazy. You hired me?
• 41:01
  Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
• 41:03
  Yeah, not my fault. I need to take 30 seconds away
• 41:05
  from today's episode and know it is not to sell you anything,
• 41:08
  it's actually to give you something for free.
• 41:10
  We're giving away a couple of free copies of Dave's book, The
• 41:14
  Buying Advantage. If you are someone who want to
• 41:16
  get a copy gifted from me to you delivered to your door as a
• 41:19
  thank you for being an incredible listener of The
• 41:22
  Ambitious podcast, the instructions are super simple.
• 41:24
  There is a link underneath today's episode in the
• 41:27
  description where you can find the link to The Ambitious
• 41:29
  Network. If you want to join us inside,
• 41:31
  you can add yourself to the Ambitious Network and inside
• 41:34
  you're going to see a post of me holding this book.
• 41:37
  Underneath that, there's very simple instructions.
• 41:38
  You're going to comment a certain word and we're going to
• 41:40
  pick from the people who comment underneath that post to give
• 41:43
  away multiple copies of Dave's book.
• 41:46
  So if you want to have this delivered to your door
• 41:48
  potentially in the next week for you to start diving into, then
• 41:51
  make sure to head to our Ambitious Network to grab a
• 41:53
  copy. And if not, you can always find
• 41:56
  the Buying advantage anywhere that you want to read it on
• 41:58
  Amazon and stores like so without further ado, let's get
• 42:01
  back into the episode. You mentioned in an episode that
• 42:05
  I was listening to of yours of the four core mistakes that
• 42:09
  people make with buy in. And I really resonated with all
• 42:11
  of them. But I know we've kind of hit on
• 42:14
  this ever so slightly, which is purpose drift, where you talked
• 42:18
  about the fact that the values and purpose alignment aren't
• 42:20
  there. So am I kind of getting from
• 42:21
  that, that that's kind of like #1 which is the fact that you
• 42:25
  maybe as the CEO have clarity of what your purpose is, but you
• 42:30
  don't necessarily have alignment of that purpose throughout your
• 42:33
  entire team? Because potentially to your
• 42:36
  point, you've anchored the purpose to something else,
• 42:38
  whether intentionally or unintentionally.
• 42:41
  Their anchor of purpose is not the same as what you might
• 42:44
  perceive yours to be, or potentially what you established
• 42:47
  way back when within that onboarding document.
• 42:50
  Right. And purpose drift also happens
• 42:52
  when you bombard them with priorities.
• 42:55
  We interviewed, we had ACEO that said, I don't know what my
• 43:00
  people are doing. They're just not getting crap
• 43:02
  done. Like this is not working for me.
• 43:05
  So we went 2 levels down in the organization.
• 43:07
  They had a couple 100 employees went 2 levels down in the
• 43:09
  organization. We interviewed those managers,
• 43:12
  they're have title of director or whatever.
• 43:13
  And we said, hey, tell me about working here.
• 43:16
  And they said we get so many priorities that we've got like
• 43:19
  20 at once and we have to pick which ones to do.
• 43:22
  And then we pray that the CEO doesn't ask us about #7 because
• 43:26
  we were working on #13 and #4 And so purpose drift also
• 43:31
  happens when you get bombardment of priorities as opposed to
• 43:35
  three priorities. And we're going to keep back to
• 43:38
  these until we get them done. And then they'll be three more
• 43:40
  and three more after that. And that's fine.
• 43:43
  Which is different than my hair's on fire.
• 43:45
  We got to get all this stuff done.
• 43:48
  So purpose drift, one of the four, what we call buy in
• 43:52
  blockers, absolutely unintentional, absolutely real
• 43:57
  and absolutely drives your largest expense being your least
• 44:01
  productive segment of your business.
• 44:04
  A second one we we talked about before are blind tasks where we
• 44:09
  delegate something without clear purpose and criteria.
• 44:14
  What does this relate to? What does Grape look like?
• 44:18
  And then allow people to ask questions, clarifying questions,
• 44:22
  and they get to set the deadline and they get to decide how
• 44:25
  they're going to do it on their own.
• 44:28
  And we have trapdoor words that come up with blind tasks.
• 44:32
  And we see this all the time when well-intentioned teams set
• 44:35
  priorities. We had a team the other day that
• 44:37
  said we're going to improve our culture.
• 44:41
  I look at that and I thought, great, all right, first of all,
• 44:44
  how do we find culture? What are we talking about?
• 44:47
  And two, what does improvement look like?
• 44:50
  Like what are the actions we're going to take?
• 44:52
  How are we going to measure it? What's our time frame?
• 44:54
  Who's going to be involved? So we'll all walk away from the
• 44:58
  meeting and agree, yes, let's improve our culture.
• 45:01
  And everybody has in their mind the way that they're going to do
• 45:04
  it. And we've never been explicit
• 45:06
  about what it is we're talking about.
• 45:08
  So we're not aligned. So the odds of us improving our
• 45:11
  culture slim to none. Six months later, we're going to
• 45:14
  come back and go. Whatever happened with improving
• 45:16
  culture, I don't know. All their stuff came up, so
• 45:20
  they're trapdoor words that just fuel this blind tasks and we'd
• 45:25
  find in blind task. It's just like, I'll do it.
• 45:27
  I'm just trying to do the best I know how as a leader, you'd come
• 45:30
  back two weeks later and go, how come you're not doing it?
• 45:34
  And they go, well, I am doing it or I you gave me 20 things to do
• 45:37
  or whatever. So buy in blocker #2 blind
• 45:42
  tasks. The third one also unintentional
• 45:46
  long wolf leadership AK this. Is me, yeah.
• 45:51
  Yeah, it happens with leaders and teams where we make
• 45:55
  decisions in isolation with all the best intention.
• 45:59
  So if the marketing department makes a decision for the sales
• 46:02
  department and the sales department just ignores it or
• 46:04
  says that will never work or doesn't fit into our account
• 46:07
  plan, that's a form of departmental lone wolf
• 46:10
  leadership. More often, the leader decides
• 46:14
  on their own what it is that should be done, or they make
• 46:17
  decisions for themselves and they just tell people the
• 46:20
  decision and people go, OK, you know a business.
• 46:23
  We used to use this nomenclature.
• 46:26
  How many hands do you have? And then we graduated.
• 46:29
  Today we call a headcount like, oh, we want in somebody's head.
• 46:33
  How many head count do you have? It's all I can see are people
• 46:36
  planted in the ground with their heads sticking up above.
• 46:39
  And So what I want or want, I want people to bring their heads
• 46:42
  and their hearts and their soul to it.
• 46:44
  And if you are lone wolf leader, there is no oxygen for me in the
• 46:48
  room. It's just you.
• 46:50
  And so that's an unintentional. You're trying to move fast and
• 46:54
  move furious and you have more experience.
• 46:56
  You want to tell people, but you're not hearing them, so your
• 47:00
  best people leave because their voices aren't heard and there's
• 47:03
  not an opportunity to grow when they're being told what to do.
• 47:08
  And more importantly, you don't get the best ideas.
• 47:11
  You don't get any ideas. You get an echo Chamber of Kate.
• 47:15
  Great idea. Yep.
• 47:16
  We'll make it happen. Thank you.
• 47:18
  Well, I was saying actually before we started pressing
• 47:20
  record, I, I had shared with Dave that I was diving into his
• 47:24
  stuff and I said, you know, I was so excited for today's
• 47:26
  conversation because I was very happily triggered.
• 47:29
  And I had said that, you know, on Monday this upcoming week, I
• 47:34
  have our normal team meeting and I have our current problem that
• 47:38
  we're, we're looking to solve is that we are looking to put out
• 47:41
  more marketing and you know, increase volume.
• 47:45
  And yet everyone already is, is, is pretty busy and we're trying
• 47:48
  to get a, you know, better results with it and also
• 47:51
  increase volume at the same time.
• 47:52
  And so I, you know, as we record this, it, it's Friday.
• 47:55
  And so I thought, OK, what I'm going to do is I'm going to take
• 47:58
  the weekend. I'm going to sit in my
• 48:00
  sweatpants with my headphones on and I'm going to solve this
• 48:02
  problem. And I'm going to bring this
• 48:05
  beautiful blueprint to the team on Monday.
• 48:08
  And I'm going to brief them on this is the plan of action that
• 48:11
  we're going to take. And then before this happened, I
• 48:15
  listened to Dave's work and I said, what are you doing?
• 48:19
  Because after I listened to Dave's episodes and he talked
• 48:23
  about which is the third of lone wolf leadership, which is the
• 48:28
  fact of you going, as you're saying, in isolation and solving
• 48:30
  problems on your own. I realized that when I sat with
• 48:34
  it and I had shared with George, I was like, I, I can't wait to
• 48:38
  go dive deeper into this book because I need this call out.
• 48:42
  I need this level of awareness of these because it's not
• 48:45
  something that I was doing by any means intentionally.
• 48:47
  I genuinely thought this is me saving my, you know, team time.
• 48:53
  I'm coming prepared. It shows that I'm not just
• 48:56
  bringing them a problem, but I'm bringing the solution.
• 48:59
  And so I thought lead by example, like the intentions,
• 49:02
  the the underbelly of what I kind of associated with was all
• 49:05
  there. But in diving into it, I now
• 49:08
  recognize listening to your principles as to that was my
• 49:12
  perspective of it, but how it is received.
• 49:14
  And also recognizing that there's a part of this kind of
• 49:19
  scrappy entrepreneur hat that in order to truly lead, you have to
• 49:25
  kind of take off sometimes because when you are in that
• 49:30
  initial, you know, for many people when they first launched
• 49:32
  their business that, you know, scrappy I run at the problem is
• 49:36
  sometimes how you actually got results.
• 49:38
  And so you got that feedback loop in your head, but it may
• 49:43
  not necessarily be what actually you need to do to take you to
• 49:45
  the next level. And again, it reinforced for me
• 49:50
  one of my things I still feel at times is so much relies on me
• 49:53
  and I go, well, yeah, of course it does.
• 49:55
  You're taking the weekend to fix this problem when you have an
• 49:58
  incredible team who could help you to brainstorm how to solve
• 50:02
  this on Monday. So yeah, I think the lone wolf
• 50:05
  piece a lot of people could resonate with because I think
• 50:09
  it's unintentional but yet so obvious now that we hear it.
• 50:13
  Yeah, and, you know, there there are.
• 50:15
  Let me put a couple of caveats around not being a lone wolf
• 50:19
  leader. One, there are times when it is
• 50:22
  really critical that you just say here's what we're going to
• 50:25
  do and not get feedback. So the building's on fire.
• 50:30
  Let's leave the building now. It's not, hey, what do you guys
• 50:32
  think we ought to do? I hear a fire alarm.
• 50:34
  Make a decision, tell them what to do.
• 50:36
  Now, if that's happening all the time, as our mutual friend
• 50:40
  George would say, you're probably the arsonist.
• 50:42
  You're probably setting the fire as if everything's a fire.
• 50:45
  So you need again, to look at your own behavior.
• 50:47
  So number one is isn't an emergency.
• 50:50
  Make your decision, move on. And then the second thing here
• 50:54
  is that you need to identify clearly where you are going to
• 50:59
  make the decision yourself. Even if you get other people's
• 51:02
  input, don't confuse people say, look, this is a decision that's
• 51:07
  really important. I'm going to make the decision,
• 51:09
  but I really want your input as opposed to most decisions
• 51:13
  should. And that should happen in one or
• 51:15
  two decisions. In most decisions that should
• 51:18
  be, look, I believe that all of us are smarter than any of us,
• 51:22
  and that's a principle we call collective genius.
• 51:26
  So let me lay out the specific issue, the criteria I'm thinking
• 51:30
  about, invite you to add any criteria, and then let's solve
• 51:34
  it together. And this came from a story we
• 51:37
  talk about in the book and we keep saying book.
• 51:39
  It's also on Audible if you like to listen, because I know 40% of
• 51:42
  adults listen. And so I learned this from a guy
• 51:46
  who's a brilliant CEO named Jeff Edison.
• 51:48
  Jeff came into a strategic planning session with a senior
• 51:51
  team and he said guys because they were all guys.
• 51:54
  He said, guys, before we get started, I want to I'm thinking
• 51:58
  about bringing somebody else onto our team.
• 52:01
  And I looked at the faces of the people and it was like, what?
• 52:05
  And I said, Jeff, do you have somebody in mind?
• 52:08
  He said, yes. I said, OK, before you tell us
• 52:10
  who it is, did you think about it a lot?
• 52:12
  He goes, I've given a lot of thought, just like you were
• 52:15
  going to think all weekend long. And I said, OK, tell me what you
• 52:18
  considered in selecting this person.
• 52:21
  And he said, I'm looking for somebody who is really smart,
• 52:24
  somebody who works hard and has cred in the business, and
• 52:27
  somebody who thinks differently than those of us in this room.
• 52:31
  I said, great, there are 4 criteria.
• 52:33
  I wrote them on the board. I said to the team, what?
• 52:37
  Take a minute on your own, what other criteria would you add?
• 52:41
  And they added two or three other criteria.
• 52:43
  And I said, great, armed with these 7 criteria, take a minute
• 52:47
  on your own. Who of all of our leaders in
• 52:50
  this company would you think about to add to this team?
• 52:55
  And they thought about it on their own, made notes and I
• 52:57
  said, OK, start shouting out names.
• 52:59
  They came up with about 10 names.
• 53:01
  And I said, Jeff, do you want to tell us who it is you thought
• 53:03
  of? And he goes, no, this was really
• 53:06
  helpful. I got additional criteria and I
• 53:08
  want to think about it more. And it's to the principle of all
• 53:12
  of us are smarter than any of us.
• 53:14
  And so as smart and successful as Jeff is, he realized that his
• 53:20
  thinking was limited by his own experience.
• 53:23
  But collectively, we cover each other's blind spots.
• 53:27
  You know, in Pilot World, you can see my 6:00 that I can't
• 53:31
  see. You can see behind me.
• 53:33
  I can't see it. So collectively, we are smarter.
• 53:37
  All of us are smarter than any of us.
• 53:39
  So lone wolf leadership with two caveats.
• 53:43
  If it's an emergency and be honest, if it's a decision
• 53:46
  you're going to own and then the 4th buy in blocker is one way
• 53:53
  communications. People feel talked at instead of
• 53:57
  listened to and you see this all the time.
• 54:02
  I watch meetings that are sometimes either like ping pong
• 54:05
  matches, I'll say something, you would say something, I'll say
• 54:07
  something you would say, and we don't hear each other.
• 54:10
  We just try to convince the other that we're right, or we
• 54:13
  talk over each other. And then you wonder why meetings
• 54:16
  are the biggest waste of time in organizations.
• 54:19
  And so we really believe in meetings with agenda where if
• 54:24
  we're going to solve a decision, the data we need to have an
• 54:28
  intelligent conversation is handed out at least 24 hours in
• 54:31
  advance. So we can process what we think
• 54:35
  about that information and come prepared for a discussion where
• 54:39
  the discussion is about a very well focused topic and we agree
• 54:44
  on the criteria and that makes for a meaningful meeting as
• 54:48
  opposed to death by updates. OK, marketing, what's new in
• 54:53
  your area? Operations.
• 54:55
  How about a new finance? What you guys got going on?
• 54:58
  And it's like, Oh my goodness, don't waste my time.
• 55:03
  That's all. One way communications more
• 55:06
  effective is to say, look, we're going to have a meeting.
• 55:08
  Everybody, here's the format. Please share your data no later
• 55:12
  than Friday at noon. I expect everybody to read the
• 55:15
  reports Friday afternoon and Monday at our meeting.
• 55:18
  If you have clarifying questions, let's ask clarifying
• 55:22
  questions. One way communications are
• 55:25
  places where everybody talks, no one's heard.
• 55:28
  Ideas are judged and shut down as soon as they're offered by
• 55:32
  other team members. No, I got a better idea that
• 55:35
  will never work. We don't take time to say, could
• 55:38
  you tell me more about that idea?
• 55:40
  So what happens when there's one way communication?
• 55:43
  Talk at instead of talk with trust goes right out the window
• 55:48
  and engagement goes with it. And people just go, yeah,
• 55:51
  whatever. I'll just watch the people with
• 55:53
  the biggest title, biggest egos, yap yap yap at meetings while
• 55:57
  I'm thinking about what I need to get done.
• 56:01
  Well, I'm thinking as you say that, you know, we've we've
• 56:03
  chatted about kind of this dynamic of the team buy in and
• 56:07
  for yourself as a leader, allowing yourself to to be more
• 56:13
  less, I guess intense or a drill Sergeant about the approach.
• 56:18
  But I'm wondering almost the contrast, meaning a leader who
• 56:21
  doesn't lead, there's somebody who let's all make the decision,
• 56:26
  let's discuss. It feels like everything is
• 56:28
  constantly in motion and maybe there isn't any of that.
• 56:31
  Here's what we're going to do. And obviously, you know, when we
• 56:35
  think back, there's obviously lots of of books and a lot of
• 56:38
  research that can be done around the different types of
• 56:40
  leadership styles. And even, as you said, you know,
• 56:42
  we saw with COVID, a lot of people went to virtual teams or
• 56:47
  doing virtual work. And so I guess I'm curious with
• 56:51
  all you've seen and we've got leadership styles in
• 56:54
  consideration. We've got how things shifted
• 56:56
  with having virtual teams. There's kind of this belief with
• 56:59
  some people I talked to of, well, if we're not in person,
• 57:01
  then we can't get buy in because we need to be 6 feet away from
• 57:05
  each other. Yeah.
• 57:07
  So I have to hire somebody local because that's what's going to
• 57:10
  make them committed. And so I think there's a lot
• 57:13
  that's changed when it comes to team, when it comes to
• 57:17
  leadership. Like you said, what we know to
• 57:19
  be this was the way we were taught to manage.
• 57:21
  But like is that actually the way we should be running team
• 57:24
  meetings anymore? Maybe not.
• 57:26
  So with all of that, what are you maybe seeing in the
• 57:30
  companies you work with, because you work with very large teams
• 57:33
  as maybe the next wave of what really is working right now
• 57:38
  given all of those changes and just how they've developed over
• 57:42
  time? Yeah, and I couldn't tell you on
• 57:44
  the Oracle of what works best. What I know to be true is the
• 57:47
  research from places like Stanford University show that
• 57:52
  the most effective teams are those teams that are a hybrid of
• 57:55
  the in person and work from home.
• 57:58
  And I'll hear people say, I I know a really talented young
• 58:02
  executive who quitsalesforce.com when they were required to go
• 58:05
  into the office five days a week because he said, I don't deal
• 58:09
  with anybody in the office. I'm talking to clients all day.
• 58:12
  Why would I spend an hour going each way back and forth to work
• 58:15
  to sit in an office or occasionally go to meetings that
• 58:18
  have nothing to do with me? So if you're going to require
• 58:21
  people be in the office, for goodness's sake, please make
• 58:25
  every meeting count and no talk app.
• 58:30
  I would also say to that leader who says, I don't know, whatever
• 58:33
  you want, what do you think we ought to do?
• 58:35
  That's awesome, but only if you built the structure to say, what
• 58:39
  do you think we ought to do to address this specific issue that
• 58:43
  we've identified as really important against this criteria.
• 58:46
  So the sandbox you build as a leader, if you're going to be
• 58:50
  effective, is focusing the issue and focusing the criteria based
• 58:54
  on your experience, inviting others to share their criteria
• 59:00
  and then give everybody a chance to think about it on their own
• 59:03
  as opposed to allowing the first person to shout out the answer.
• 59:06
  And then we we follow that conversation like a drunk on the
• 59:09
  highway. We follow, try to follow this
• 59:12
  conversation. People need the opportunity to
• 59:15
  anchor their own thinking before we have a conversation.
• 59:19
  And so there's no perfect, it's got to be your leadership has to
• 59:23
  be true for you. And we always say leaders go
• 59:28
  last. So as you said on your Monday
• 59:31
  meeting, you're going to share your solution last.
• 59:33
  I commend you on that, except when it comes to vulnerability.
• 59:38
  And every meeting has to begin with a human connection and
• 59:44
  honoring the human being. So we look one of these signs we
• 59:48
  look for in meetings when we evaluate organizations in the
• 59:51
  1st 2 minutes, did everybody have a chance to speak?
• 59:54
  And so we'll do that through a couple of different techniques.
• 59:57
  1 is saying, what are your expectations for this meeting?
• 1:00:00
  What would make this time a great use of your time?
• 1:00:03
  Because you have no idea what what is on people's mind.
• 1:00:06
  It doesn't mean they're running the meeting.
• 1:00:08
  It means you're honoring their feedback and what's on their
• 1:00:11
  mind. And then just be real.
• 1:00:13
  You know what, we're not going to get to that today.
• 1:00:15
  Could we do a follow up meeting? Could we add it next week?
• 1:00:18
  And then the second thing is doing a connection question, a
• 1:00:22
  vulnerability question that you answer first like.
• 1:00:26
  Tell me about a time growing up when you joined a new group or a
• 1:00:31
  new team. What was that like?
• 1:00:33
  What did you learn? How did it make you feel?
• 1:00:36
  How do you apply that today? Give people a minute to think
• 1:00:39
  about their experience and share their experience as a human
• 1:00:42
  being. And if you ask that question
• 1:00:45
  regularly, one you'll realize we're all on the same journey.
• 1:00:50
  We've just taken different paths and two people will be real and
• 1:00:54
  tell you who they are and what they need.
• 1:00:56
  When you have that insight, you are able to get the best from
• 1:01:01
  them and allow them to give their best.
• 1:01:05
  I, I really resonate with that because I probably, I want to
• 1:01:09
  say, well, truthfully, if I give credit where it's due, when I
• 1:01:11
  met George, he's a very emotionally in tune person.
• 1:01:15
  And so when I met him, we kind of joke that I was, I was very
• 1:01:20
  in my, my masculine energy when it came to just like leading,
• 1:01:25
  yes, with team, but also just in the business in general.
• 1:01:28
  And so I didn't at that point have any vulnerable shares.
• 1:01:32
  I didn't really ever put myself on the stake.
• 1:01:35
  It was always just, you know, you would expect other people to
• 1:01:39
  share, but I wasn't the one to share.
• 1:01:42
  And so there was definitely like the team still got objectives
• 1:01:46
  done. They still had tasks being
• 1:01:48
  managed, but there was like an emotional disconnect.
• 1:01:52
  And now I feel like we are talking as much about what their
• 1:01:57
  personal lives are in the sense of like, what Like, to your
• 1:01:59
  point, what happened this morning, what you navigated this
• 1:02:02
  weekend, you know, just who they are as people and what they're
• 1:02:05
  experiencing. And I feel like there is a
• 1:02:08
  camaraderie. There is a culture that shifted
• 1:02:12
  massively once I was able to say, hey, here's where I'm
• 1:02:16
  actually at or here's how I'm actually doing this week.
• 1:02:18
  Versus I think my perspective previously had been, you know,
• 1:02:23
  to be an authority and to be taken seriously.
• 1:02:26
  And, you know, all of these old scripts of, of what leadership
• 1:02:29
  look like once I release that, I've never been closer with the
• 1:02:33
  people I work with and also with that never had more trust.
• 1:02:37
  I feel like they also have more trust because they recognize I'm
• 1:02:40
  not just another person in the machine.
• 1:02:42
  Here I am or like a piece in the machine.
• 1:02:44
  I'm truly seen as a person inside of what we're doing.
• 1:02:48
  And I would say to your vulnerability piece, I really
• 1:02:51
  resonate with that because I used to, you know, start a
• 1:02:55
  meeting being like, OK, great, let's let's dive into it.
• 1:02:57
  Let's get into the material, Let's get into the the updates
• 1:03:00
  or all of that. And taking a moment now to just
• 1:03:03
  check in with people and how was your weekend and what was like a
• 1:03:06
  a personal win and a business win from the last week that you
• 1:03:09
  guys want to share with everybody?
• 1:03:11
  And sometimes it's, you know, I ran for the first time in six
• 1:03:15
  months and I feel really good about it.
• 1:03:16
  It has nothing to do with business, but I realized that
• 1:03:20
  shifted things a lot in just, yeah, feeling the connection
• 1:03:23
  piece. And before, I don't think I, I
• 1:03:26
  really connected enough or attribute enough value to what
• 1:03:29
  that does to what a lot of, you know, people in the management
• 1:03:34
  perspective or the leadership perspective look at, which is if
• 1:03:37
  you as the owner, you're like, I want to grow and I want
• 1:03:39
  efficiency and I want productivity.
• 1:03:43
  There's a person that is underneath all of that.
• 1:03:45
  And so I think the question I kind of simplified it to, for
• 1:03:49
  myself is do I feel like in a given week, I am as
• 1:03:54
  acknowledging of the person within this as I am the process
• 1:03:59
  that they're designed to own? And I think that that kind of
• 1:04:02
  became an evaluation. I saw a massive shift when it
• 1:04:05
  came like you were noting to meetings and just to overall
• 1:04:08
  communication of just having dialogue versus I need this
• 1:04:12
  done. Awesome.
• 1:04:14
  And Kate, I think it's important to recognize it is a tricky
• 1:04:19
  position for female leaders because they've also heard the
• 1:04:24
  don't be emotional message. And sometimes I hear guys in
• 1:04:29
  businesses like Real Estate City, don't be emotional.
• 1:04:31
  It's like, you know, the interesting thing is the human
• 1:04:36
  body is physiologically wired with three brains.
• 1:04:41
  There's the brain in our head, the brain in our heart, and the
• 1:04:42
  brain in the gut. And you know this because people
• 1:04:45
  say I have a gut feeling or this really makes my heart happier.
• 1:04:48
  My heart aches. You know, you've got three
• 1:04:52
  brains. And in school they beat 2 brains
• 1:04:55
  out of us and pretend there's one right answer.
• 1:04:58
  What's 2 + 2? There's only one answer.
• 1:05:01
  What's the capital of French? There's only one answer.
• 1:05:03
  And we go to please the teacher. And that whole model is not
• 1:05:05
  useful because there is not one answer.
• 1:05:08
  There are thousands of answers. There is perhaps one best fit
• 1:05:12
  based on our common criteria and what it is we're trying to solve
• 1:05:15
  for. And listening to your heart and
• 1:05:17
  listening to your gut and being a real person is important.
• 1:05:21
  And you've got to, you have the opportunity.
• 1:05:24
  You don't have to do anything. You've got the opportunity to
• 1:05:26
  overcome the story of I can't be emotional.
• 1:05:30
  Emotional is human. It is the human condition.
• 1:05:34
  One of the questions we ask on meetings, the second, third,
• 1:05:37
  fourth meeting of the week is OK.
• 1:05:39
  What's something you're celebrating personally and what
• 1:05:42
  are you celebrating professionally?
• 1:05:44
  Because it puts you in the mindset.
• 1:05:46
  First of all, it takes you out of your task list.
• 1:05:48
  Second of all, it puts you in the mindset of remembering there
• 1:05:51
  are things worth celebrating. And when I hear your personal
• 1:05:55
  celebration about your kids, about your pet, about going
• 1:06:00
  running for the first time in six months, I get to see you and
• 1:06:05
  you get to see me. And that's why leaders go first
• 1:06:08
  when those questions are answered.
• 1:06:10
  Because the vulnerability you show, which is what enables
• 1:06:13
  trust, is the vulnerability other people are going to show.
• 1:06:16
  And if you had a really crappy weekend, call it out and say, I
• 1:06:20
  was really disappointed because this thing I was really looking
• 1:06:23
  forward to went turtle on me and it was a disaster and I felt
• 1:06:27
  like crap. Call it out and people are going
• 1:06:30
  to identify. That's happened to me too.
• 1:06:33
  And you show up as a real human being and they'll show up too.
• 1:06:36
  And human beings get a lot more stuff done than human doings
• 1:06:41
  100% of the time. I love.
• 1:06:44
  It so good. It's so good.
• 1:06:46
  OK, Dave, we need to talk about the buy in advantage.
• 1:06:50
  Obviously we will be giving. We have an incredible community
• 1:06:53
  that is connected to this podcast that people can join for
• 1:06:56
  basically resources giveaways of things like this.
• 1:06:59
  But for someone who is either going to get a free copy of this
• 1:07:03
  or wants to right now after listening to this conversation
• 1:07:06
  says, you know what? I don't want to wait for Kate to
• 1:07:08
  ship it to me. I'm going to order it for next
• 1:07:10
  day delivery on Amazon. The buying advantage, if someone
• 1:07:14
  is going to read this and to really apply everything inside,
• 1:07:19
  is there kind of anything you would want them to know about
• 1:07:21
  how this could really shift them, but also what this could
• 1:07:26
  do to really shift their business?
• 1:07:28
  Yeah. First of all, I would not
• 1:07:30
  suggest that you apply everything inside and suggest
• 1:07:33
  that you read it, analyze your situation, but then importantly
• 1:07:37
  ask others how they perceive the situation and then pick one or
• 1:07:42
  two things as priorities and try those things.
• 1:07:46
  We have, if you go to buy in book.com, BUYIN book.com, we
• 1:07:53
  have a free assessment and you can take your own assessment on
• 1:07:56
  where buy in is. And then we have an assessment
• 1:07:59
  for teams that's free where you can have your team take an
• 1:08:02
  assessment and that begins the conversation and applies the
• 1:08:06
  idea of all of us are smarter than any of us.
• 1:08:09
  So rely on your collective genius, your team's view of the
• 1:08:13
  experience to identify where to begin.
• 1:08:16
  And then pick one or two things and try them and see what
• 1:08:19
  happens. And then go to the next two
• 1:08:22
  things. They'll all be there.
• 1:08:24
  But we've shared the ideas in the book, not because I'm an
• 1:08:27
  expert in this. So that's what I did.
• 1:08:29
  It's what I learned from great leaders.
• 1:08:31
  It's lessons I learned from watching great leadership.
• 1:08:35
  My friend Tom Leopard, who's chairman of Austin Industries,
• 1:08:39
  who was former mayor of Dallas, TX, who's a great leader, said I
• 1:08:43
  wish I had this 20 years ago because I would have led
• 1:08:47
  differently. And that's the way I feel about
• 1:08:50
  what I learned from all these amazing leaders that we feature
• 1:08:52
  in the book. Well, one of the things that I
• 1:08:55
  feel like I noted is that if I could distill it down, it feels
• 1:08:59
  like small incremental change. And it feels like there's this
• 1:09:04
  compound effect that can happen from the integration of these
• 1:09:09
  principles. Because I'm thinking for the
• 1:09:11
  person who is listening or reading, let's just say you only
• 1:09:15
  shift like as I did, I kind of had before I dove into Dave's
• 1:09:19
  stuff and I had after, which was the meet, the morning, you know,
• 1:09:23
  Monday meeting was going to be happening regardless.
• 1:09:25
  One had a certain agenda and one had a very different agenda.
• 1:09:28
  And I know that just even me taking that, OK, wow, that I'm
• 1:09:32
  going to shift how I approach things this week is one step in
• 1:09:36
  a level of awareness now that not only, number one, freed up
• 1:09:40
  my weekend, but #2 allowed a lot more team connection and
• 1:09:45
  camaraderie and collaboration than me staying in that pattern.
• 1:09:50
  And that's just one tiny little thing that you shared.
• 1:09:54
  And if I think about how that's going to impact future Monday
• 1:09:58
  meetings or future problems, there's a compound effect like
• 1:10:01
  just having these principles in this level of awareness.
• 1:10:05
  And I think even, you know, as you said today, that the
• 1:10:07
  symptoms of how this comes up or the lone wolf leadership or
• 1:10:12
  purpose drift, like even if you take one or two of these pieces
• 1:10:16
  and you integrate them, those over time will have a massive
• 1:10:20
  impact on not only your experience within your business,
• 1:10:24
  but also the experience of the people that you work with.
• 1:10:26
  So I feel like it is meaty in the best of ways because there's
• 1:10:30
  just so much you can dive into and apply.
• 1:10:32
  And I, I know for the people who listen, because they're very
• 1:10:35
  similar in wiring to me, I'm like, dive in, make all the
• 1:10:39
  notes, go integrate it all. And we'll take Dave's advice and
• 1:10:42
  we will take a nugget or two. We will bring it to our team and
• 1:10:46
  use that to kind of integrate them a piece at a time and allow
• 1:10:49
  the compound effect to kind of take take advantage.
• 1:10:52
  So I love it, the buy in advantage.
• 1:10:54
  Dave, thank you so much for today.
• 1:10:56
  This was incredible. It was my pleasure and a
• 1:10:59
  privilege, Kate. Thank you.
• 1:11:01
  I'm glad to be here. I'm always available.
• 1:11:04
  If somebody wants to grab a coffee, reach out.
• 1:11:06
  You can find the contact information of buying book.com.
• 1:11:09
  Reach out, let's chat. I love to learn from leaders and
• 1:11:12
  what works and doesn't work. And Kate, I'm delighted and I
• 1:11:15
  can't wait to hear about your Monday meeting and how people
• 1:11:19
  contribute and recognize all of us are smarter than any of us.
• 1:11:23
  I love it. I love it so good.
• 1:11:25
  Dave, thank you so much. And guys, thank you so much for
• 1:11:27
  tuning in today. As I said, we will be giving
• 1:11:29
  away a couple copies of the buy in advantage inside the
• 1:11:33
  ambitious network. So if you are someone who wants
• 1:11:35
  to snag a copy of that, join and go into the community.
• 1:11:39
  If you're not already in there, you can message underneath on
• 1:11:42
  this episode in the comments of Spotify or also to us on
• 1:11:45
  Instagram with the word ambitious.
• 1:11:46
  And we'll get you inside to snag a copy of Dave's book.
• 1:11:50
  But also, if you or someone like myself who's like, I'm going to
• 1:11:53
  potentially start reading this tomorrow, then you can either go
• 1:11:56
  to Dave's site, as he noted, or buy wherever you buy your books.
• 1:12:00
  So with that being said, we will see you guys on the next
• 1:12:02
  episode. And, as always, stay ambitious.