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Transcript

BALL x PIT · Awoken Game Club Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: To the Awoken Game Club.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Patrick.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're back.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Ball Pit Awoken Game Club companion podcast.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you're listening to this for the first time,
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: which you definitely are because it's our first podcast,
• 0:19
  Awoken Game Club is a game club that Patrick and I are running
• 0:24
  on Substack where
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: each month we will play a game that we've collectively decided that we're
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: interested in.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: We will play through it throughout the month.
• 0:33
  And then at the end of the month,
• 0:35
  we'll share each other's fresh thoughts.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: The game for the first month was Ball Pit.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: What was your first thought, Patrick, when we chose that game?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my first thought was there was a lot of
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: hype around a ball breaker, brick breaker kind of game.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's been a while since I had played one.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a strong history with brick breakers.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: But when I think we saw this on the game of the year,
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: best indie debut or something like that,
• 1:10
  and I thought this was a great choice and happy to be here back
• 1:15
  in the podcasting
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: room talking.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a hot minute since we've talked about it formally about games.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is not our first games podcast.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: How long do you think it's been since we recorded a games podcast?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I rewatch our episodes every day, so I know exactly.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Six days, seven months, three weeks.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we did it before COVID, before it was cool.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Man, we talked about all sorts of games at nauseam on a weekly basis.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, weekly.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Good Lord.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So no, I really enjoyed ball pit.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to be talking to you about it.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: What about you?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: What was your overall first impression?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: first of all,
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: you mentioned brick breaker games and breakout,
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: which I also have no nostalgia for.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know what those games are.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I did some Wikipedia rabbit holing about breakout.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know anything about the origins of this genre?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Not particularly.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: I did also some light because I had played some in the past,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: but nothing competitive or nothing with any meat on the bone,
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: I guess.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So Breakout came out in 1976.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we're almost 50 years to the day of the original game.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was developed and published by Atari for arcades.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So not like the home console, but arcades.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was designed by Nolan Bushnell and Steve Bristow.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Who do you think prototyped the game on discrete logic chips?
• 2:49
  So who do you think the programmers were that converted the
• 2:54
  design to the code that
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: ran on the arcade machine?
• 2:58
  I mean,
• 3:00
  the fun answer is like someone who has nothing to do with video
• 3:03
  games.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Just like some nerds who are like physicists that are like,
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: let's do something fun on the side.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Physicists or nerds?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing to do with video games, but well-known nerds.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: It is Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like the founders of Apple.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
• 3:30
  They were just two local Silicon Valley coders that got
• 3:35
  commissioned to write this code.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And apparently...
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is unfounded,
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: but on Wikipedia,
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: it says Steve Jobs allegedly stole most of the commission,
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: which does not surprise me with everything we know about.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then also this gets crazier.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: So when...
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Atari initially tried to copyright the game.
• 4:00
  It was denied copyright because it did not contain the minimum
• 4:03
  amount of original
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: pictorial or graphic authorship or authorship in sounds.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: You following me?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So Atari appealed it all the way to the Supreme Court,
• 4:17
  where the final decision was written by Ruth Bader Ginsburg for
• 4:22
  the original
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: breakout game that found that the work was copyrightable.
• 4:26
  And she wrote the majority decision on why Atari could
• 4:29
  copyright breakout.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: She's a legend, a champion in all video games.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: She is.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: I just couldn't believe.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, breakout.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was just a,
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: you know how,
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: when you read like a Wikipedia article and you're like,
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: oh.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're just like going to other pages.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: This was like a beautiful Wikipedia rabbit hole.
• 4:47
  This is one of those things where it's like I'm thinking like
• 4:50
  six degrees of Kevin
• 4:51
  Bacon or when you play that Wikipedia game where you have to
• 4:54
  get from A to Z like
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Steve Jobs and brick breaker games or video games in general.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's the bridge is breakout brick breakers.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's amazing.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I thought that was a fun anecdote.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get to first impressions for Ball Pit.
• 5:14
  First of all,
• 5:15
  did you know,
• 5:17
  when did you learn it was pronounced Ball Pit and not Ball X
• 5:19
  Pit?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I got a little bit of anime background,
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: and I think most anime enthusiasts know about the anime Hunter x Hunter.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's written Hunter x Hunter,
• 5:32
  and so there's a lot of memes out there on whether it's Hunter
• 5:36
  x Hunter or Hunter x
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hunter,
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: and it's relatively known that you don't actually say the X.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:44
  i was saying the x for a long time i was like i think i was
• 5:48
  maybe halfway through
• 5:48
  this game where i heard a podcast where they were talking about
• 5:51
  it and they were
• 5:51
  like ball pit and i was like oh okay it's just ball pit no it's
• 5:57
  um there is no
• 5:59
  shortage of of memes about it and yeah that's my background
• 6:02
  with it okay so what
• 6:04
  were your first thoughts when you first started playing it
• 6:07
  maybe the first hour
• 6:09
  um i really let's see i didn't i don't have an original love
• 6:14
  for brick breaker
• 6:15
  games in general uh but i did find the most distinct part was
• 6:20
  the aesthetic it is
• 6:21
  very like gothic-y kind of reminds me a little bit darkish
• 6:25
  dungeon which i really
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: liked um
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously,
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: there's a little bit of humor in the beginning,
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Babylon,
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: the fall of Babylon.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so I overall like the aesthetic.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: I completely missed that.
• 6:41
  Listen,
• 6:42
  some of us play for the story and the lore and others are just
• 6:45
  trying to break bricks.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Just trying to bust balls.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I think that was the first thing that caught my attention.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we had both played Vampire Survivors.
• 6:58
  So I think we caught on to that element very quickly with
• 7:01
  collecting the little
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: dots,
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: leveling up.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's kind of where I thought.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, this is neat.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is a Vampire Survivors kind of fusion thing.
• 7:10
  brick breaker angle and i was like great i really enjoyed
• 7:15
  vampire survivors i
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: binged it hard and i could see myself binging this hard yeah i did
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was like really negative the first hour or two,
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: which I ended up loving the game,
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: but first I was not really from,
• 7:33
  I didn't really realize that it was a rogue light instead of a
• 7:36
  rogue like,
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: and I,
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: so rogue light being there's permanent progression,
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: versus like a slay the spire where there's
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: there's like unlocks,
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: but you're not,
• 7:48
  there's like a skill component where you're learning the game
• 7:51
  and getting better at
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: it.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think my first impression was like,
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: this game has,
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: there's no skill involved like whatsoever,
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: which we'll talk about.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then also the unlocks felt really slow.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think throughout the whole time playing this game,
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: you go like an hour or two without unlocking too much.
• 8:11
  And then all of a sudden you don't play the same level more
• 8:13
  than three times in a row.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like, yeah,
• 8:16
  at about the two hour mark the unlock started coming fast and
• 8:20
  loose and i started
• 8:21
  to be like oh this is fun like this is this is addicting um but
• 8:25
  yeah my my first
• 8:26
  thought was like oh this is this game takes no skill it's just
• 8:30
  an unlock fest um so
• 8:33
  yeah i was a little bit like i was a bit surprised by that were
• 8:37
  you more enthused
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: about unlocking the powers that came along or the characters
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Probably the characters.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because I knew that people had told,
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: like based on podcasts and talking to some coworkers that play it,
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: they were like,
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: the characters get crazy.
• 8:55
  And I was kind of like,
• 8:57
  for like the first five or six runs,
• 8:59
  you just play those first...
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Those first two characters,
• 9:02
  which are even the second character that's not the base
• 9:05
  character is pretty
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: unremarkable.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: He just shoots balls faster at a not where you're aiming,
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: but like aiming doesn't matter that much.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Actually,
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: when you brought that up with the rate of unlocking,
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I originally went to characters first as well.
• 9:25
  Because honestly,
• 9:26
  yeah,
• 9:27
  for me,
• 9:27
  the identity of this game is not the power ups.
• 9:29
  It is the characters and the power ups are like a they're a fun
• 9:34
  addition unlockable,
• 9:35
  too.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: But but it's all the characters,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: because in the second half of the game,
• 9:40
  when you start getting these weird guys and gals and everything
• 9:43
  in between,
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: you're just like this.
• 9:45
  They they're the ones that actually kind of changed the game
• 9:48
  because everything
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: else just feels like.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: DPS, they were making the screen light up like a Christmas tree.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the balls can be kind of samey.
• 9:59
  Like,
• 9:59
  there's your AoE balls,
• 10:01
  there's your,
• 10:02
  like,
• 10:02
  poison,
• 10:03
  bleed,
• 10:03
  fire,
• 10:05
  are all...
• 10:07
  indistinguishable in terms of how you play them um right and
• 10:11
  then like lightning
• 10:12
  earth and then i mean the horizontal and the vertical lasers
• 10:16
  are pretty cool but
• 10:17
  like the aoe you just kind of like bucket these things you're
• 10:19
  like heal aoe dot
• 10:22
  like i just need one of each it's just a it gets the evolutions
• 10:27
  get kind of cool
• 10:27
  but yeah i agree the balls were like i get there's only so much
• 10:32
  you could do with
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: them but
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the balls suffer because there's not as much counterplay.
• 10:41
  And that's one thing where like,
• 10:42
  if I could make it better is encouraging counterplay.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I found like,
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: there's no way to counter too many balls,
• 10:51
  but I don't know if you got to the angel levels where there
• 10:55
  were these dudes that
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: literally steal your ball.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:58
  And so if you were one of the guys that only launched one ball
• 11:02
  or didn't have baby balls,
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: you got countered hard.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: You needed baby balls for the angel levels.
• 11:09
  Cause the amount of arrows that were flying at you and it
• 11:11
  didn't feel like there
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: was counterplay.
• 11:12
  It more felt like people were just not viable,
• 11:14
  like on certain levels,
• 11:16
  which is not that fun.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very fair interpretation of counterplay versus viability.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I also,
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: what I realized when I let myself go playing this game was like,
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: this is not a serious game.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is a fun game.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And the developer takes the piss quite a few times.
• 11:37
  And then I think when I started to embrace that this was kind
• 11:41
  of like the best
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: mobile game you've ever played,
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was like,
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: I started to have a little bit more fun with it.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Could you say the same about Vampire Survivors?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 11:52
  Vampire Survivors also falls into the best mobile game you've
• 11:55
  ever played category.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: I like this a lot more than Vampire Survivors, though.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: I also did for a number of reasons.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the core mechanic, but...
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think it also ran very well for what was happening on screen.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was visually very vibrant and fun.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I do think Vampire Survivors also ran very well,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: but it was just a lot of PNGs and JPEGs overlapping each other.
• 12:25
  This felt,
• 12:26
  whether the flashes between when they get hit or the special
• 12:30
  effects,
• 12:31
  the sound...
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was just overall more pleasant to play,
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: fun to play,
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: and over my time with it,
• 12:40
  I didn't have any performance issues for how much crazy stuff
• 12:43
  was happening on
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: screen.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the music was incredible.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said earlier, the art was very striking.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: I played,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: 100% of this game on my Steam Deck,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: which speaks to the performance,
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: too,
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: because that is not a lot of power there,
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: and I had no issues...
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: just going crazy with crazy builds and stuff like that.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, this was a very nice Steam Deck game.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I have been appreciating my Steam Deck more lately.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I played 100% of this on the Steam Deck.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, nice.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: How did you feel?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, go ahead.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was just going to mention,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: when did you feel like,
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: maybe some of it was the unlocking,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: but was there a moment when you felt it turned from,
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not liking this so much,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: to,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I am?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you mentioned...
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: just having fun with it.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember as, was it a character?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Was it a hearing someone else say like,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hey,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: this is the way this game is supposed to be played or.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was the character of the twins.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I was just like, Oh, this is, this is fun.
• 13:58
  Like there's like,
• 13:59
  that was when the first character that felt a little bit like,
• 14:02
  like,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: breaking the fourth wall kind of thing.
• 14:06
  So I feel like I unlocked the twins also right around the same
• 14:10
  time that I went
• 14:11
  from really disliking the city builder metagame to like really
• 14:16
  enjoying the city
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: builder metagame,
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: which I normally...
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: I really thought I was not going to like the city builder metagame,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: but it was pretty charming and just strategic enough.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I just liked building my village and expanding it.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't look up any guides for how to design.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like I had devised some kind of elegant solutions.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think...
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoy progression,
• 14:48
  this is a 20 hours of just enjoyable progression on like the
• 14:53
  game front and the
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: city building front.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like I unlocked the twins.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I started to like not be bored of the meta game all around the same time.
• 15:03
  And then I'll talk a little bit about the late game things that
• 15:05
  I really liked as well.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think of the city building?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: What was...
• 15:11
  So I sometimes get stressed with that type of thing because
• 15:14
  min-maxing is a little in my blood.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I...
• 15:20
  I maybe wish I played this on PS five and I do think the city
• 15:25
  building management
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: was probably easier done with a mouse and keyboard.
• 15:28
  I just felt picking stuff up for building a new house or if I
• 15:34
  upgraded something,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: but it was in a previously good position,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'd have to reorient everything for maximum.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: For min maxing.
• 15:44
  But I do think over time I just had such an excess of resources
• 15:47
  that you didn't really need it.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a mouse wheel to zoom in and out would have been clutch.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like the camera controls of the metagame.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: if you had to move like five buildings at a time,
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: you're just like right trigger X.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then the swap didn't always work perfectly.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's fair.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then late game, I absolutely...
• 16:19
  adored even though there were two things that were not fun but
• 16:22
  maybe like the game
• 16:23
  a lot more and it was the turn-based character and the and the
• 16:29
  and the idol the
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: idol game character that does all the shooting and uh
• 16:37
  yeah did you unlock those two characters i i unlocked all all
• 16:41
  the characters yeah
• 16:43
  um i think his name was the radical and the mastermind yeah
• 16:47
  they were hilarious
• 16:49
  yeah i'm like oh these are kind of risky decisions like game
• 16:53
  design decisions like
• 16:54
  even my co-worker was like furious at the idol character and i
• 16:58
  was like no like
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: this is funny like this is
• 17:02
  the turn-based character was so stupid uh i only played him
• 17:05
  once ever and then the
• 17:07
  idol character i thought was just so hilarious and by that
• 17:11
  point you're kind of
• 17:11
  wrapping up the game and i i knew game i got to new game plus
• 17:16
  only by setting the
• 17:17
  idol character and then going and doing something else i
• 17:20
  stopped i stopped playing
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I followed a similar suit,
• 17:25
  except I use them for everything because I did try to platinum
• 17:29
  and I did platinum
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: this.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: You platinum this?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: I platinum this game.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was a straightforward platinum.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not very well paced, nothing too crazy.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: But didn't you have to get everything in the encyclopedia?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Was that hard?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was not.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:46
  Especially because most of the trophies are straightforward
• 17:49
  because it's just beat
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: every level with every character.
• 17:53
  So you had a lot of time and opportunities to get those certain
• 17:57
  combinations.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I did have to look up one thing.
• 18:01
  That's one gripe I might have had is I wish they kind of hinted
• 18:05
  or maybe build a
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: building that gives you an encyclopedia.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't love that I had to look it up for the last few.
• 18:12
  yeah um but i did use the radical and mastermind because i i
• 18:16
  did the turn based guy
• 18:17
  once and i thought the pace was so slow it's so slow my dude
• 18:22
  you get the radical
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: like the idol guy you pair and you pair him i've done i did that yeah
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I did every level with them, and I just walked away.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was amazing.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: I maybe appreciate idle games, actually.
• 18:37
  I was like,
• 18:38
  is this why people...
• 18:38
  Because I've never gotten into an idle game.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, no, this is satisfying.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm enjoying this.
• 18:46
  It feels earned because there's so much passive stats in the
• 18:51
  metagame that...
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you were too weak, the idle guy couldn't do it.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just needed to either complete the previous levels with multiple
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: characters to build your passive stats,
• 19:04
  get enough buildings in the right orientation to boost your
• 19:06
  passive stats.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's almost like a test of like,
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 19:10
  do you have enough runs under your belt for the auto player to
• 19:15
  do its thing?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it felt kind of good when you came back.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: The boss was dead and you had the end screen.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like an engine builder like you earned like you you you had to
• 19:28
  You had to earn like you earned those wins because you built up
• 19:33
  those characters.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And those passives.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoyed it.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about balls.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you you got you've unlocked every ball.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Unlocked every ball.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: So the my favorite ball was the nuclear ball.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, cause that was one that I didn't find spontaneously.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I was,
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was hoping for more of those,
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: like these,
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: like these like accidental evolution,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: double evolutions that just surprise and delight.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like there could have been a few more like,
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: this is,
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: this is really changing,
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: surprising and delighting basically with the balls.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did any balls jump out at you as like, uh, cool in any way?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I really basically what my end game was like for fun.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I constantly made the ball Nosferatu.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: OK,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: so that one is basically the spider,
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: the egg spiders and the mosquitoes and then the vampire.
• 20:37
  So I kind of just tried to do that every level because that one
• 20:40
  just had like baby
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: balls all over the place.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that always looked fun, felt fun, even if they wasn't always strong.
• 20:49
  Or I think there was one weakness where if it got in the back
• 20:51
  line,
• 20:51
  it struggled to come back.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what your character was,
• 20:55
  but that was one that I always enjoyed because I just loved
• 20:58
  producing baby balls
• 21:00
  and some of those passives with you get more baby balls or baby
• 21:04
  balls do more
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: damage.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: The baby ball build is my other note.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:09
  Nuclear ball and baby ball builds were my two most fun like
• 21:13
  ball attempts.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever go ahead or go ahead?
• 21:19
  I struggled with the single guys,
• 21:20
  the single ball guys,
• 21:22
  the guys that only launched one.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: I hated playing them.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: The AOE guy I didn't enjoy.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, one other one.
• 21:32
  The guy that shot from the back was another one that was like,
• 21:35
  oh,
• 21:35
  this is awesome.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: The character really changing the game.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't like broken.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like the bosses would wreck you early on because you couldn't.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Once the bosses moved forward, you were screwed sometimes.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
• 21:51
  And it wasn't so grindy that I felt like going back to,
• 21:54
  does this game take any skill?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no.
• 21:59
  And I would have been really annoyed if like grinding for stats
• 22:04
  was the only way to
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: progress,
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: but just luckily it just didn't have to grind that much.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was just not enough grinding that I would have,
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: because the game takes no skill,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: you can't have a lot of grinding.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I'm just going to stop playing.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to stop.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they, they played it all really like the designer of everything.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Just a lot of very thoughtful decisions.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: I thought the pacing was great.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: there were not any,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: and even if you had to grind a little bit,
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: cause there were some times where I was like,
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: really,
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was stuck on the mushroom level for a long time,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was just a breakthrough and then I just blew it.
• 22:43
  through everything else but yeah i thought it was very well
• 22:46
  paced uh i did think
• 22:48
  that there might have been there could have been an opportunity
• 22:51
  for maybe some more
• 22:52
  level identity that's what i have here like the lava pits were
• 22:57
  fun because yes they
• 22:59
  hurt you but like if you threw balls through it they lit
• 23:02
  enemies on fire and the
• 23:04
  gravity holes were fun gravity holes were very cool yeah i
• 23:07
  think we just needed
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: more of that more
• 23:11
  more just variety and and other than the identity of the
• 23:14
  monsters creeping in just
• 23:16
  like things to take advantage of or watch out for yeah it could
• 23:22
  have been like a 10
• 23:23
  hour game instead of a 20 hour game and i think that that the
• 23:27
  love if that was the
• 23:28
  case then i think the levels you could have had more bespoke
• 23:31
  levels um but you
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: needed an enough content so that
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: You need to progress both the city builder,
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: the character unlocks,
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: the level unlocks,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: and the ball unlocks kind of all at the same time.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: So all four of those design elements,
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: they're not going to all run out of steam at the exact same time.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you can tell that the levels ran out of steam first.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: They had enough content in those other swim lanes,
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: but they just kind of reskinned the levels a little bit.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
• 24:08
  Bigger health pools,
• 24:09
  maybe different angles,
• 24:11
  but nothing where I was like,
• 24:14
  oh,
• 24:15
  Jesus.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Did you ever take that passive where you lose health every ball you send,
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: but you gain health when you get a kill?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that is the best because I had to beat every level with every person.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: The guy that shoots only one, that's who that's for.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is it?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:34
  Because if you have a baby ball build or a rapid fire build,
• 24:37
  you're,
• 24:37
  you're cooked.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that makes sense.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I only took it a couple of times and I was,
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: I first,
• 24:44
  I took it because it was like one of those like slay the spire
• 24:46
  cards where I'm
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: this is bad.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm like, Hmm.
• 24:51
  you're probably wrong like you're like like there's things
• 24:55
  where it's like the
• 24:56
  obvious you you don't like it it feels uncomfortable but that
• 25:00
  means it's probably
• 25:01
  very good and you should try it um and it was very good and
• 25:06
  what i realized is that
• 25:08
  you can't die from the passive did you know that you can't you
• 25:13
  can't die but at the
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: end of anything yeah
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you get hit by anything and then it becomes a problem in boss fights,
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: because if you don't survive the bullet hell,
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: you can't life steal because there's no ads on the screen.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's great for the beginning, but at the end it becomes a problem.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: I found it was really good for like regen and like tanking things.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: So those bigger guys,
• 25:37
  whether it be the guy who is basically like a bar from
• 25:40
  Brickbreaker or the guy that
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: only launches one.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: They are meant to like take damage.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like you literally take take the onion passive,
• 25:52
  take the lifesteal passive and just like run up to people and
• 25:55
  literally like there
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: were a few passive combos where like if you touched people,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: they had like a 50% chance of dying.
• 26:02
  So you would just like run in there,
• 26:04
  tank damage and like launch your one big nuke bomb.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: So eventually I found those play styles.
• 26:10
  I don't they're not as fun as lighting things up with a
• 26:14
  thousand baby balls,
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: but yeah,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: they are kind of viable sometimes.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Passives.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 26:22
  some other notes I had where I thought the use of bonus gold to
• 26:25
  encourage you to
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: play underused characters was brilliant.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or even,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: even if that was just random where they would give you,
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: I really was exploring more of it because of that incentive,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: which I thought was really nice choice.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: I also really appreciated how few controls there were.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think like vampire survivors,
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: it's just always impressive when such a simple mechanical game is like,
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: has a lot of depth.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: did you auto shoot
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I always had auto shoot on.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, same.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like tedious not to.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's,
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: you play also a lot of these kind of roguelite games,
• 27:05
  but I know Hades has a similar mechanic where it offers
• 27:10
  incentives to try different
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: weapons.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought it was like, oh, this is that kind of echo.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure a lot of other rogue type games do that too.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I also enjoyed that.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: And as someone who was trying to do everything with everyone,
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: it really did just guide me to who do I do next?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: At what level have they not done?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then what companion character to add?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can combine people, which was really fun.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Also hasn't done that.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it felt good to just,
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: plan what you were going to do,
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: make a little bit of progress and just get like the dopamine,
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: serotonin,
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: whatever to have progress.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess we could have said this at the beginning,
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: but we are going to share with the Awoken Game Club post,
• 27:55
  we're going to share Game Club questions for you to ask each
• 27:59
  other if you want to
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: follow along and use our games for your own Game Club.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm through my notes.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have more notes before we get to the questions?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 28:10
  maybe I had some what I would consider maybe some misses or
• 28:15
  maybe like what could
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: maybe maybe make it better.
• 28:17
  Yeah,
• 28:18
  I think I would have liked some more bosses or even like
• 28:24
  merging bosses.
• 28:25
  I thought more make like a super level where it's like multiple
• 28:30
  levels back to back.
• 28:33
  and if we combined it with maybe one build can beat one boss
• 28:37
  versus another build
• 28:39
  doesn't work as well as a boss so you wanted mario kart world
• 28:43
  ball pit edition give
• 28:45
  me give me the deep rock galactic deep dive like it's three
• 28:49
  missions back to back
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: um for a super thing um that would have been that would have been cool
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 28:56
  I think maybe the last thing that I had as a miss was I talked
• 29:01
  about Darkest
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Dungeon before the aesthetic is so good.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: I would have liked a little bit more personality.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you're in deep enough in the Darkest Dungeon,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: kind of like community,
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: it's fun to kind of imprint personalities on the different characters.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: I just would have liked more opportunities to have characters
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: lore about maybe some of these characters,
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: where they came from,
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: what their personalities are like.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just feel like people like to engage with them,
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: have a little bit more fun,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: make more memes about it.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe that exists and I just didn't find it.
• 29:39
  But those are those are a few things that I wish we could maybe
• 29:42
  make it better.
• 29:44
  yeah yeah like so that kind of plays into one of my questions
• 29:48
  which was how does
• 29:49
  this rank in your top three devolver digital games um so i
• 29:54
  don't expect you to
• 29:54
  remember all the devolver digital games off the top of your
• 29:56
  head but like devolver
• 29:58
  digital very prominent indie game publisher and a lot of their
• 30:03
  games have this
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: aesthetic uh this kind of like
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Just striking art, really thoughtful indie games.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like this game felt like a lot of Devolver Digital,
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: kind of Cult of the Lamb,
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Carrion kind of games.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: But the difference is,
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: I guess,
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: this game was primarily a single developer,
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: like Kenny Sun,
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think his name was.
• 30:27
  He didn't do any of the art,
• 30:28
  but he did the programming design and audio design.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: But when you are a devolver digital game,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think you do come to expect the polish that you're talking about.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Even though games like Disc Room,
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at this list,
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'll read the list,
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: but Hotline Miami,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of them have slightly larger teams.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think some of the things that we're talking about
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: like more complex,
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: like variation of the loop or different levels or lore,
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: would have benefited just from a larger team,
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: which like,
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: it is,
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: it is what it is.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, um, it makes sense.
• 31:13
  I'm going to list some,
• 31:15
  all the top devolver digital games,
• 31:17
  uh,
• 31:18
  hotline Miami,
• 31:19
  uh,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Cult of the Lamb,
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Enter the Gungeon,
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Death's Door,
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Inscription,
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Loop Hero,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Ape Out,
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Downwell,
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Grease,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Disc Room,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Card Shark,
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Heave Ho,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: The Talos Principle,
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Baby Steps,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Carrion,
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: and Titan Souls.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: So like,
• 31:40
  I kind of thought that when I think about like all of the hit
• 31:43
  indie games of like
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: the last 10 years,
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like,
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: they're just all Devolver Digital,
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: but that's not true.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 31:49
  this is there were probably a lot of games where i think that
• 31:51
  they're devolver
• 31:51
  digital but they're not any games strike out from you from that
• 31:55
  list of like your
• 31:56
  favorite what you consider like the pinnacle of a devolver
• 31:58
  digital game so i've
• 32:01
  only played maybe like three or four of those cult of lamb
• 32:05
  comes out of me i think
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: i tried down well a little bit hotline miami um
• 32:10
  In in my bench of games that have platinum to which I like to
• 32:15
  think I explored every corner.
• 32:19
  Cult of the Lambs platinum was very difficult,
• 32:21
  very painful,
• 32:23
  very bad design choices.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Does anyone who's listening knows if you played it post patches and DLC,
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: you just got shafted so hard.
• 32:32
  yeah i also thought cult of the land performance in the end
• 32:35
  game was terrible uh
• 32:37
  coming back to your little village and if you had too much
• 32:41
  entities crammed in it
• 32:43
  just i'm just like there's no way that this should be
• 32:45
  performing this poorly so i
• 32:46
  think that's pretty far down there but from what i remember
• 32:49
  with hotline miami was
• 32:50
  so good with just its overall aesthetic music and energy but i
• 32:55
  out of those i think
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: i really enjoyed the
• 32:59
  because of how not stressful it was i think ball pit is is up
• 33:03
  there now i haven't
• 33:04
  done some of those other ones like death's door for good things
• 33:07
  and yeah but yeah
• 33:09
  god ball pit i really did enjoy my time yeah i think i did too
• 33:12
  i think it would be
• 33:13
  number two for me after inscription i think it would go
• 33:17
  inscription ball pit i
• 33:19
  played card shark i played disc room i played down well i
• 33:22
  played hotline i played
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: ape out
• 33:25
  Um,
• 33:26
  but none of those,
• 33:26
  those games were like neat,
• 33:28
  but I didn't put 20 hours in them.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't, I don't feel for this game club.
• 33:32
  Like I'm going to put more effort in for sure than I would have
• 33:38
  if I wasn't doing
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: this for our game club.
• 33:41
  Um,
• 33:41
  cause it's,
• 33:42
  that's fun motivation,
• 33:43
  but I would not have put 20 hours into it.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, uh, if I didn't enjoy it a lot.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Inscription is really good.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good call out.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that would also, I think, be number one.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't platinum that game,
• 33:59
  but the way I felt about playing that game after I beat that
• 34:03
  game and kind of the
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: stillness after beating that game,
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: it's hard.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to beat that.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess, did you have any questions prepared?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, nothing in particular.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think we, we covered a lot of what I had in terms of comments.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think I asked a little bit about if you could make it better,
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: what were,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: what would you,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: what would you do to make the game better?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to add that to my list.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: So when we share the official list, um, uh,
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we covered a lot of mine.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Mine were like, did you have any nostalgia for Breakout?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: How does this rank in your top devolver digital games?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: How did you feel about the City Builder mini metagame, which we covered?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Does this game require skill or strategy?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of just nodded.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: I said no.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like that's an oversimplification?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with the amount of effort, especially in the end game.
• 35:03
  And I didn't go too hard into new game plus,
• 35:05
  but maybe that would require optimum builds.
• 35:09
  But from what I experienced and just trying to beat everything
• 35:13
  with everyone,
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: I did not have to think too much.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: I would get frustrated if I lost.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I would blame something else.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I thought the game was pretty easy.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: We covered favorite ball.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Neither of us have said our favorite character.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked about the first game changer being the Twins.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so the Twins was maybe my earliest...
• 35:41
  favorites i thought i really liked the juggler yeah i don't
• 35:45
  remember if you
• 35:46
  remember the juggler he could like throw you could basically
• 35:49
  control where the ball
• 35:50
  went yeah you could go in the middle of the screen and it would
• 35:54
  bounce it's pretty
• 35:56
  okay wherever it landed it was very op impressive the way the
• 35:59
  physics it was
• 36:00
  impressive the way the physics handled it too optimization is
• 36:05
  not an issue in this
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: game it is so clean and it feels so good when those are flying yeah
• 36:11
  So I think the juggler is up there and then the scientist
• 36:13
  physicist dude who kind
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: of operates like the...
• 36:18
  It's like the reverse gravity where it like bounces and then it
• 36:22
  goes to the back of
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: the screen.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Those are my favorites.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: What about you?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: I could not get the hang of that guy.
• 36:27
  But it was pretty late game and I was like,
• 36:29
  I don't want to get the hang of you.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to keep going.
• 36:32
  Yeah,
• 36:32
  I think my favorite was the one that shoots the balls from the
• 36:36
  back.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: I just think it's like...
• 36:39
  one of the most satisfying things about this game is the balls
• 36:43
  being stuck in the
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: back and just going crazy.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I just found it instantly satisfying.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, you're just, I just feel fun and good.
• 36:51
  The second,
• 36:52
  the first wave comes out,
• 36:53
  cause I'm already like going crazy in the back line.
• 36:56
  Uh,
• 36:58
  so yeah,
• 36:58
  like when I would combine that one with like the twins and it's
• 37:02
  just like,
• 37:04
  crazy balls in the back line that was probably one of my
• 37:06
  favorite combos and that
• 37:08
  did you know that was coming you can play two characters at
• 37:10
  once no i was like that
• 37:12
  is that is wild yeah mixing these two uh way more for me like
• 37:19
  we talked about
• 37:19
  engaging than some of the balls themselves they had to think of
• 37:23
  some the designer
• 37:24
  had to think of so many like ahead of time what's going to
• 37:27
  happen when i allow this
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: kind of thing interactions
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of making the game better,
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think the controls and the metagame,
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of your feedback is really good.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the...
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: The gameplay loop could have,
• 37:49
  whether it be the way the balls change the way you play or the
• 37:55
  enemies change the
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: way you play or the levels change the way you play.
• 37:58
  Any of those things more affecting the way the game is played
• 38:02
  other than just the
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: characters would have been more exciting,
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think.
• 38:08
  The characters did a lot of lifting there by changing the way
• 38:12
  that you play.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 38:14
  And I would have loved to have seen less balls,
• 38:17
  but yeah,
• 38:17
  more dramatically different balls.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which maybe I'm being kind of harsh.
• 38:22
  There were a lot of balls,
• 38:24
  but,
• 38:24
  uh,
• 38:25
  I didn't,
• 38:26
  I didn't really think about them.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Other than when I select,
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: when I selected one,
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: that was a fun decision point,
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: but when I'm shooting them,
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not,
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not really thinking about them.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely not.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I had.
• 38:43
  Any other questions,
• 38:44
  thoughts before we wrap up our first companion podcast?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, I just had a great time playing the game.
• 38:50
  And yeah,
• 38:51
  kind of being mindful and reflective on the experience has also
• 38:54
  been a lot of fun.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Hell yeah.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, Patrick.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you, everyone, for tuning in.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: We said before this, it'll probably take 10 to 20 minutes.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's been 39 minutes.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we had some meat on the bone.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully we enjoy most of the games we play this much.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Patrick.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to you next time.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to you later.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Much love.