Latest / Cleaning Business Life / Interview Red Flags: How to Hire Better Employees | Ep 213

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Interview Red Flags: How to Hire Better Employees | Ep 213 · Cleaning Business Life

• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is Shannon Miller with Cleaning Babies this Life, and I'm here with my best co-host ever, Miss Jamie Runko.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're here and we're talking about interviewing red flags.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: This is so good right now.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, right off the get-go, you guys, especially if you're starting to hire, take it from us.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Especially you, Shannon.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've had my share.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's there's gonna be a lot of interview red flags.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And not because people are bad either.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's because there are there are it's just like with clients, right?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: There are red flags with clients, there's also red flags with cleaning techs.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: An example of that is, and I have nothing against people who are in transition.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: For example, occasionally I would get someone who doesn't have a home, and they were going through too much internally to be able to be a good individual for cleaning tech.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, sometimes you have to kind of say, hey, when you get yourself a little more stabilized, please feel free to come back.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not discriminatory.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that there's gonna be going, you should give everyone a chance.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: You should give people a chance when they're in the right situation.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: If they're not in the right situation, it all it's gonna do is just cause you havoc.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna cause your team havoc, it's gonna cause your clients havoc.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of um unstability when you are not central to your location.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not talking about like, for example, when I lived in Lake Tahoe and I couch surfed for a period of time with my dog Matana.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's a different, that's different, right?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: That when you're family and you're out there and you're in total turmoil all the time, you're not gonna be able to be a good employee.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I'm digging myself deeper in the hole, but it's just an example I wanted to give.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: That would be a red flag.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying that you can't do it, it's just it's it's a red flag that you kind of need to be made aware of.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: We all need dependability, like, and that being houseless is almost a full-time job in itself.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right, because you're trying to make it happen.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're yeah, and it it is.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I've been there many, many years ago, and it is a full-time job trying to find the resources to dig yourself out of that hole.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: But doesn't mean it can't be done.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: It just means right there at that point.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Not in the cleaning industry, I know at that time.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Not at that time.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Things let's let's go with the green the the green lines.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: We we need a great attitude, we need somebody that shows up.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: We need people that care.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you're looking for people that want to grow.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Not a motherly instinct, because men are in they have this calm, cool demeanor.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: They want the hours, they wanna know how to grow, and they're interested in being with like your company and and helping your company grow.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's it, but you know, it could be messy, but it can't be.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and most most applicants are not gonna have red flags.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: This is I'm just talking about it.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Happened to come up in conversation the other day with somebody who shall not be named.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And well, no, they do not speak.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: No, they do.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it it would it, I thought that this would make an interesting topic because we don't really talk about, we talk lots about red flag clients, but I don't think we've really explored the potential of what a red flag interview would be.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Another example of a red flag, and this is I'm tiptoeing through the posies here, is someone who may have a felony for theft.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now, it's entirely up to you how you hire, but if you have someone who has been tempted by theft before in a convenience store environment, it might not be a good environment for them to be in someone's home.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the caveat with that, and this is definitely a red flag, is they they might be a perfect fit for a bank because it's on camera, right?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you hire that way.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: As long as you disclose, you know, hey, just let you know this person, blah, blah, blah.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or not disclose.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: It just depends on the situation for those types of things.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people, I still we do background checks.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: There's felons.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: There's felons here.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of people have uh yeah, it depends on the how long ago it was, was the felony, what it was it for.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people get back in the day you get a felony for drugs.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people have changed a lot.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not even the same.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: They've turned their life around.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: They, you know, they don't deserve to have that over their head for from society for the rest of their lives.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: So you you do like that's the beautiful thing about this business.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Whenever it's yours, yes.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: You get to make up the rules and what you're willing to tolerate.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: Red flag is definitely theft.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I would even go as far as even if it's a misdemeanor, misdemeanor theft, how long ago?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes drug addicts way back in the day would, you know, if they're changing their life, they, you know, got caught stealing food or something like that.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: It just I still theft is a big one for me, even if it it just depends.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, late happens, life happens.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's been many times on the show we've had a kid interrupt or a dog interrupt.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Life happens.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, did they call?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Did they text?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you how many times I've had people no call, no show.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, so are you going to be joining us today?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Are you right?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is everything okay?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm concerned.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Can you please let me give me a call?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: On an interview, I if they're five minutes late, no call, no text, we're done.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's we're done.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: They call and text, and and I hear their reasoning why, are you still gonna be proceed with caution?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: So because let's let's be real, people can lie.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or do they show up late and act like nothing happened?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's a red flag.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then we'll I it's definitely, well, your interview was at such and such time, and we're on for the next person to come in.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or how someone handles being late tells you more than the fact that they were late.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: So giving, having some common courtesy, and things happen.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: That trees, and especially in your area, Jamie, trees fall on the highway or the road and shut down the road, and you're just like waiting for the forest department to come and drag the tree off of the highway because you there's big trees.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Slides.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: They're just called slides.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: When you guys get a lot of rain, um, what other crazy things?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: We've had cars overturn, car accidents, the traffic lights broke, you know when you had to go, pulled over.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're trying to make it to the interview, and then they get a ticket and just makes it for even a worse day.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Then then that's also thinking back like, okay, then you're gonna speed to your client's house if you're so we we could we're we're gonna have this, we could have this problem, but we also look into their DMV records.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Checking the driving records is super important, especially if you have company cars.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: The next possible potential red flag is they speak negatively about every previous employer.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm gonna share something I did when I was like 20.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: I had and I've talked openly about this individual.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Her name is Barbara.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think Barbara is around anymore, but she I worked for a plumbing wholesaler at the time.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think I made$6.25, and it was a 40-minute drive each direction.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And Barbara would come into the room and she would announce that she was gonna fire someone today, and I would be the only person sitting in that room.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's the type of person she was.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to look around like, is it is it me?
• 10:41
  unknown: Right?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Is she gonna fire?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually I became I became bitter and I should have left after the first couple times she mistreated me, but I put up with a lot of stuff because I was a very dedicated worker.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I went and got hired on at an interview with somebody else, and all I did was badmouth my former boss, Barbara.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So don't do what I did, because that's a huge red flag.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I was 20.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize, you know, that negativity was being picked up.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was just telling this person how this person was.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: How was your last job?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: I hated it, right?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, I I've gone through some applications because you know what even if you don't hire the person, always have them in the back pocket ready to be hired and interviewed.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's what we mean by constantly hiring.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: We don't mean hire them right on the spot, and then you don't have any work enough work to go around and you're you're that's not what that means.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Start stacking those applications up.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm looking for the applications, and on my application is like, why tell me why are you leaving your your current job or your something along those lines?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: And this person proceeded to write a whole paragraph about how toxic the environment, and there's no team, there's no support, there's no team playing together.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: There's just it's just a toxic environment.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of those places.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that to me is a red flag.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: My boss was crazy.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm sure I said that in that interview.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're all idiots.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I would have said that, but I might have considered it.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody appreciated me.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: The customers were awful.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't get enough breaks.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have time to be on my phone.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like it's the list can go on and on and on.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because we all know that I'm like right in the middle of all of this, you guys.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I got I got stories.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, some some people sit there and tell you about their whole why'd you get let go?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever been let go of a job?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: And they'll tell you, I did.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: The reason why is because and I didn't even do it at the end of it.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you're like, yeah, no problem.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: I just it's red flag.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely, yeah.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, this is a great one.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: They can't, they can't seem to work explain their work history.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: They've had lots of jobs in a short amount of period of a time.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why are you not staying at these jobs?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you skipping from job to job to job?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people also look at our industry as a I've hear it all the time, but this is becoming not true, uh, as a pass-through job.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna tell you why.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I I I my my if you remember, if you've gone back and listened to some of the podcasts, in the beginning you would probably hear me say, This is such a pass th pass-through job.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: My mind has shifted to where this is not.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have created an actual like what am I what is this word I'm looking for?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Permanent a career path.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: We have we have started to do career paths.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: So whenever they can't explain their work history and they're jumping from job to job to job, I wouldn't always, I would always hire a frickin' breathing body.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, get in here, you know, just to get get that because it would panic higher.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm guilty of it as well.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Living and breathing, perfect, you're hired.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Why why do you go, why do you only have a job for two weeks at a time?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Everything has a reason too.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: They have a reason for everything.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Everything.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Everything.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like the one on the on now, mind you, you guys, this is just on the application itself.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: But we haven't even done the interview yet.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I you didn't even make it to the interview process if you're gonna give me a whole reason why none of this is your fault.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or can they explain, right?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe every does every answer answer feel vague?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like they ask, so tell me about your hobbies.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what would you like to know?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, do you go outside your house when you're not working?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do in your free time?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's lots of interesting questions.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: I believe we discuss interview questions somewhere and somewhere, somehow.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we should do that, Shannon.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like interview questions.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Let's write it down.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm writing it down.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we'll have to look.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Interview questions.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Another brilliant idea.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, no, and I love it because I'm right, like I said, I'm right in the thick of this right now, you guys.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you're you're really ownership.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Not perfection.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want perfection.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: What you can't train is common sense, right?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's really hard, actually.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: You can't train common sense.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: But somebody that has somebody that can be coachable.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Discernment.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there you go.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Discernment.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: When they don't ask you any questions back, or they haven't done any research on you or your business, that's usually a little bit of a red flag.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like aren't they aren't interested in knowing what you stand for, what your mission statement is.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: They're just no curiosity at all.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: I and I see people all the time saying, ever all these people say that they're hiring, but I put on all these applications and nobody's calling me back.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, because you're going, you're hopping from everybody and just taking the first person that'll grab you, you know, without doing any kind of investigation on who this company that you just put in this application for.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I've structured my application.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've said, why do you why would you like to work for above all cleaning services?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I, from that question alone, I've gotten so much great feedback that it's like, I've heard amazing things about you.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to be a part of the team that I see that you portray on social media.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen that.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: But again, you gotta, it's hard structuring just even an application.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: And some of these applications you could do that with, structure it out, and then listen to this podcast for the red flags.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times, too, if they're not asking you questions back, if they're not interviewing you in your business, because ultimately cleaning text make us a lot of money, it tells you that they might not be interested in what's really going on.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're just there as a physical body, like what Jamie and I have described, a warm body, let's go.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that you want them to ask questions.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: You want them to be curious about what's going on.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: You want them to want to do a good job.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there's a lot of questions like not working Fridays.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Can I leave early on Tuesdays?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can I bring my child?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Can I use my own products?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: What about earbuds?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Can I, can I, can I?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And usually accommodation isn't the issue.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's usually timing.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of cleaning companies, and I'm sure I'm sure you guys have all noticed this, there's usually two shifts.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's a 8 a.m.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: or a 9 a.m.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: start, and it usually goes till 1 p.m.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: or 12 p.m.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then, or you work until 4 p.m.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: is usually what it works out to be.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you decide what works best for you in your business.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if they can't fit within those parameters or they have special accommodations scheduling-wise, you have to decide whether you're going to be able to work with that or not.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Over the Christmas holidays, if you have someone who needs all of a Christmas break off and you're slammed because it's the busiest time of year for you, that might not be a good hire.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Or you go into it with the understanding that you've made accommodations for them.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: But you also have to remember if you make an accommodation, if you have genuine W-2s, if you make one accommodation for one, you need to make accommodation for all.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why we would have blackout dates over the Christmas holiday.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I can say that we would close down.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like I used to be really brutal.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Admittedly, I am still ashamed that I did this.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: We would work up until Christmas Eve, and then we would be off Christmas, and then we'd work the day after Christmas.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I now we just shut down on the 23rd and we're closed until the 27th.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: We work a couple days, we catch everybody up, and then we're also closed New Year's Eve and New Year's Day because my mentality changed.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I was just ruthless.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: I came from the restaurant industry.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know any better.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't want to be that way either.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you, if you're gonna have someone who has special accommodations, my point is make sure that you can honor those accommodations, follow it through.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a big red flag.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: They constantly interrupt you.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: They're constantly over talking you.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I agree.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: I I we know that I'm a talker and I can sometimes get excited and over talk.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: It is definitely Yeah, it's definitely a training.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: I get excited, you guys, especially in this industry, about every aspect of it.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Down to even this, the the hiring, the interviewing.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm build I'm literally building this out right now so that I can my brain is so used to working one way, and it's like, what are you doing?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: We don't we don't do it that way.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: So being able to listen is a trained thing that we need to do another red flag though is accountability.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: They are they taking accountability for anything that they put on, especially them applications?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Or is it everybody else's fault?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Why was they late to the the interview even traffic or their ex or their kids?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's gonna be end up being a problem for you down the road.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: If they can't listen to you, they're not gonna listen to your clients.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I agree with Jamie, if everything is every someone else's fault.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Then that are they chronically late?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or is there something going on with their schedule?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it drop off and pickup?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: If they say, okay, I made a mistake, then then they own it at least.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can decide whether that mistake warrants the next process and the and in the streamline of the interviewing process, right?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: You get the application, you do the interview, you do the working interview, or however you're doing it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe references can sound hesitant.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's a red flag.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sometimes I love talking to references because they'll tell you all of the juicy bits.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget you guys.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I never I in the beginning and never did whenever I first was learning how to hire because this is a learned process.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: I never called their references.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Shannon got on to me, you've got to call your references, you gotta find out.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like, well, what questions do I ask?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and if their references are not matching, not necessarily a deal breaker, but you know, well, sometimes the put personal references, and that can always get you get the T on them as well.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: You never know what you're gonna get, and you make sure that you're uh obviously asking responsible questions within the legalities of the state you operate.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have to say that because I don't want anyone coming back going, Jennings! Well, I'm gonna tell you guys right now.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: I if you put in an application, I do look at your social media.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I wanna see what that can be a red flag.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: I wanna see what you're putting if you're just cussing up the storm and baby mama drama or daddies and all this.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's a red flag for me.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: So be careful what you put out there.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then red flag number nine is your gut is screaming.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Always go with your gut, always all your gut is actually gonna respond more faster than your heart, believe it or not, is what I have been told.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um have you ever hired someone that just fell off?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, of course, you guys have watched me.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: I knew I shouldn't have.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: My gut was telling me not to, but I needed somebody.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to scale so bad, but I did it wrong, right?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, you know.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: I hired my cousin and it cost me about 75 grand.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: So because I was pressured to do it.
• 26:06
  unknown: Right.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: That that was a painful, painful band-aid, and I regretted it in the end.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I, as you guys all know, I've mentioned it on multiple occasions.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: I am uninvited to any holiday gathering because of the experience I had with my cousin.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and family, you know, family.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that's some people do it, it works out great for them.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen it happen, but I've also seen some really Shannon, you're a great example of that.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: How messy it can really get.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, it and everyone believed her, and no one questioned anything that she said.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, how come no one came to me and asked me?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: How come nobody's talking to me?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just I'm officially the black sheep.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: But and that's really when expensive mistakes happen.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was pressured into hiring my cousin because she was fresh, new in the k in town.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up with her, but I hadn't seen her in several years, so she was older than me.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, sure, I you know, my because I told my uncle, I'm like, look, I typically don't hire family.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of reasons why, and there was a lot of guilt.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: How big were you at this time?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: About so you've already had 20, 20 cleaning text at the time.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: So you've already had it down, right?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just like we went through the motions, I went through the interview.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: She interviewed really well, and it wasn't, and didn't you guys know the story the other?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: I actually think that it's probably time for me to have full disclosure over my$375,000 mistake.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just haven't really openly talked about it and given little bits of information throughout the podcast, but I just haven't been ready.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, my cousin cost me um about 75 grand after everything was said and done.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, and I but I guess guess what?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: I bet you it won't ever happen again.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Never instantly, whenever somebody tells me that they learn that I was like, guess what?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: I bet you you'll see me and the groups, everybody.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Whenever uh it's like there it is, there's a learning, there is a learning mistake that you can rather than cry about it for a second or years cry about it, but you know what?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: I bet you it'll never happen again to me.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: I had a mm-hmm, no.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: And would you was it hiring out of desperation?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's a that's a great wave, red flag number 10 you have right here.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Hiring out of desperation.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right, warm body, right?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: You're behind, customers are waiting, phones are ringing.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: Man, whenever I was still, whenever I still on there is no way I could I would have to wait until after I was done cleaning to try and catch up.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I was just too tired.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure I've let And not answering the phone while you're out there feeling.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're hiring warm bodies and you're not doing your back work of checking out references or you're behind because the phones are ringing, it causes you to make emotional decisions that you wouldn't normally make.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: As I mentioned, when I hired my cousin, I was pressured by my uncle.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can you please help us out?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: She's having a hard time finding a job.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: That should have been the first red flag, right?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't, you know, I didn't have any reference point.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was over the summer.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: She worked for the school district where she came from, right?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So they were off.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way to verify anything.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just had to take her word for it.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the end result was that it cost me several thousands of dollars.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: And desperation hires create desperation fires.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we we didn't want to leave you with all of the negative side of interviewing.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: We wanted to give you some green flags.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna talk about green flags with interviews.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's on a 360 each time because the workforce has changed, because there's different expectations, there's different wants and needs, and I get that too.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's interesting to kind of follow the path of the cleaning industry.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And when they show up early, it tells me they planned ahead.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: They put a little bit of extra effort into what they're gonna put in cleaning houses, if they're gonna put in extra effort to make the house look spotless, if they're gonna fold the blankets that are sitting on the couch and do the karate chop to the pillows on the bed or on the couch.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Those are little things that are the extra efforts that you're looking for.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that that really is a a great first impression, at least for me anyway.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: What about you, Jamie?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: So with the application on your website, so for because I know people are gonna want to know, and it's above allcleaning.com, right?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Dot net.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then the form that you're using, because I know we're gonna get asked this later, is the simple jot form.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: What did you do?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: You can apply at Jamie's and get her questions.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not interested in a job, I just wanted your funnel.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: And indirectly, subconsciously, you're telling them, hey, this is what I'm all about, this is what my mission statement is, this is what our company culture is, this is what this is about.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if they're not, if they're just arbitrary, and it happens like still to this day, people will approach you at your vehicle, people will want to hand you an application, and that's fine too.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: But you're they want you want them to, you know, that you want them to ask great questions.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what does success look like for you after 90 days?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: What does training look like?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really good question.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people just go through a job and go, okay, well, I have training.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how long is training?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna train for 90 days, 180 days, seven days, four days?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: What's okay?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Another question they might want to ask you in an interview is what do your best employees have in common?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question to ask.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know what your because they want to be your best employees, right?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or who were the best employees at your last employer?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: What did that look like?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Did you get along with them?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of job did they have?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, see how that kind of spirals and leads on to other questions?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then most importantly, because if you want people to stick around, you're gonna have to provide opportunities to grow, right?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: What can I do?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Can I become a shift leader?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Can I become a trainer?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Can I become an office manager?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Can I do quality control?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's so many positions to expand from from just cleaning techs.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the opportunities.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that whole bottleneck thing.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that those would be green flag number three.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, green flag number four is do they take ownership of what they did?
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Some people will be very meticulous, they'll be on time, they'll ask lots of questions, but did they and I and no one wants to talk about do something bad.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: What was the worst thing you did at your other job, right?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: But instead, people make mistakes.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: If we could walk on water, we'd be doing other things than in the cleaning industry.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, if my boss, my last boss was terrible, like I mentioned.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in an interview when I was 20, they will say, Well, we weren't a good fit.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, why weren't you a good fit?
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: You could tell that I knew someone who was an attorney because it just kind of led on to other questions.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Or I learned a lot.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or what did one person tell me?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was very driven and I learned a lot from you.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Or I'd handle that differently now, or I made a mistake and this is what I did to fix it.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I don't, I'm not expecting perfection.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you're expecting perfection from your cleaning text, I'd really kind of analyze why you're looking for perfection because you'll never gonna get it.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like McDonald's.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're basically just looking for accountability.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: And Mr.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: P, I'm sure, likes it too.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's I'll take the coachable over the know-it-alls any day.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing more frustrating when you're in with but this is back in the day, when you're in training with a bathroom because you're doing it yourself and your trainer's not doing it, and they just start to sit down and they're not listening to anything you say, we're not going by the checklist, and all they're doing is complaining to you.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Those are non-teachable people.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I'm like, okay, well, I don't think this is gonna work out.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: I obviously will wait until the end of the house.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do it in the middle because you don't want an outburst.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: That can be pretty ugly and awkward for sure.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, coachable, coachable over a know it all any day.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: They actually listen.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: Listening is actually a skill that is learned.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: Just because we can hear does not mean that we are listening, believe it or not.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: They don't interrupt, they think before they speak, they're polite, and cleaning is a people business.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely, I love communication.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hence the reason for the podcast.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: That poor hen.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: For those of you who have chickens know exactly what I'm talking about.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Reliable people often tell you they're reliable before they verify it.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if they're saying any of those things, they're gonna tell you beforehand that they really are reliable, they take pride in what they do, they show up on time.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you then your reference check checks will simply confirm it.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if you get really good at asking the right questions in the reference check, it'll actually give you a lot more insight to their work history, their personality, and what they believe in.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh to I I believe I have something on how to do a reference check.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember if it's behind a paywall or not.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'll have to look.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: Green flag number eight.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is one of my favorites.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't happen very often because I don't know, societal dictates are different now.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: They smile when they talk about serving people.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: This, believe it or not, is a reference to Walt Disney because Walt Disney at Disneyland, I have heard you have to smile whether there's someone around or not.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: If there's someone out there that can confirm that, let me know.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: But that's just what a little birdie told me.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, they're smiling.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: People smile a lot.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: Is it natural?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Is it comfortable to them?
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is it something that they're uncomfortable with?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: This one's a little hard to measure, too, because you're not going to normally get people are nervous in an interview.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're you shake their hand, it's sweaty.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know they're nervous.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they might not smile in an interview or when they talk about serving people.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I've gotten questions like, you mean you want me to stick my hand in the toilet with a glove?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, give me that.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'll do it myself.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Let me show you.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Blah, blah, blah.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: But watch their face.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Are you okay in there, Jamie?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: Watch their face.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do they light up when they talk about helping people or serving people?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they help and serve people at their church, and that will give you an opportunity to see if they'll smile when they say it.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: Do they enjoy making someone else's day easier?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: I totally love making someone's day easier.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or are they simply just looking for a paycheck?
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that happens too.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've had some golden unicorns that are looking for a paycheck.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Probably wouldn't hire them right off the bat because they were a little rough around the edges.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I've had some really good employees over the years who were golden unicorns.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right, patterns, patterns and systems, that's what we're all talking about nowadays.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: And one interview won't tell you everything, your working interview is going to be right where it tells you everything that you want to know.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: But if someone consistently demonstrates responsibility, curiosity, accountability, and respect, those are the kinds of people who often become your best employees.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Red and green flags just for you and your interviews.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: If today's episode made you think about your own hiring process, we'd love to hear from you.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: What interview, red flag, or green flag have you learned the hard way?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: God, I have a lot of those.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Head on over to Cleaning Business Life Facebook page and join the conversation.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: And if someone you know is getting ready to hire their very first employee, send them this episode.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: It might save them thousands of dollars and countless headaches and months of frustration because it's scary when you're doing your first one.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do I do?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: How do I set this up?
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: And before you go, make sure you listen to episode 206, Scaling Pains, the problem no one warns you about.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Hiring the right employee is the only the first step.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, Jamie has done it hundreds of times now.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: That episode dives into the what happens after they join your team, leadership, systems, accountability, and building a business that doesn't rely on luck.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, thanks for listening to Cleaning Business Life.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: I had to read that one.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: That was a mouthful.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining in.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.