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'Be sensible and keep your mouth shut': The private school facing allegations of control · The Morning Edition

0:03
S1: With heritage listed sandstone turrets and iron gates. The Redeemer
0:08
S1: Baptist School promises Sydney parents the private school dream a prestigious,
0:14
S1: disciplined education for a fraction of the cost. But its
0:18
S1: academic awards state of the art facilities and charitable works
0:22
S1: conceal a darker reality. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris and you're
0:27
S1: listening to The Morning Edition from The Age and The
0:30
S1: Sydney Morning Herald. Today, education reporter Emily Cowell on allegations
0:36
S1: from former students who say the school ordered them to
0:38
S1: share bedrooms with teachers and subjected them to authoritarian control. Or,
0:44
S1: as the school's student diary put it, be sensible and
0:48
S1: keep your mouth shut. Welcome, Emily, to the podcast.
0:53
S2: Thanks for having me.
0:54
S1: Okay, let's start off with the basics. Emily. What is
0:57
S1: the Redeemer Baptist Church and its affiliated school.
1:00
S3: So Redeemer Baptist School and Church are a fundamental Baptist church.
1:05
S3: They're completely separate from the traditional Baptist church, you'll see.
1:10
S3: And they actually the Baptist church makes a point of
1:13
S3: distancing themselves from this community. What makes them unusual is
1:19
S3: that they're very fundamental. It's a highly patriarchal, authoritative church
1:24
S3: environment where men essentially have all positions of power and
1:30
S3: women follow their rule. So from an academic sense, you
1:35
S3: can't fault this school. They get stellar results. We, in fact,
1:38
S3: celebrated them few years ago in our HSC coverage. The school,
1:42
S3: from a strictly academic sense, has fantastic results. The teachers
1:46
S3: of there are so dedicated. Because this is their entire.
1:51
S3: This is their entire world. Their ministry teaches them that
1:54
S3: this is their purpose in life to teach. It's when
1:57
S3: you dig into a bit further and hear about what
2:00
S3: goes on behind the scenes that you start to question
2:03
S3: what's really going on.
2:05
S4: Okay, so that's the foundation.
2:07
S1: Of the church and the promise of its school, which,
2:09
S1: as you've written, gets really great academic results. But you
2:13
S1: have spoken to former members of this church and former
2:16
S1: students of the school, and they paint a very different
2:19
S1: picture of their experience, a dark one. So can you
2:22
S1: just tell us, first off, about Alexandra Garth and what
2:25
S1: she's told you about her experience?
2:27
S3: Yeah, Alexandra Garth has to be one of the most
2:30
S3: remarkable young women I have ever met. She was born
2:34
S3: into the church, into one of the most powerful families
2:37
S3: in the church. And she's the granddaughter of the church's founder,
2:40
S3: Noel Canon. Now, Alexandra grew up in this highly controlling environment.
2:46
S3: She attended the school and the church, and she told
2:50
S3: me that essentially, she felt like she was constantly being watched,
2:54
S3: that the people she lived with, the people who were
2:58
S3: her teachers also lived at home with her. Her school
3:00
S3: librarian lived in the bedroom across her hallway. She actually
3:04
S3: shared a bedroom with her own primary school teacher. So
3:07
S3: this is a world that's entirely intertwined. There's no escaping
3:11
S3: the church if you were born in that community. We
3:14
S3: cannot understate here just how brave it is for these
3:18
S3: people to leave the school. And church has said that
3:21
S3: anyone is free to live in their own will, and
3:23
S3: that they will not be stopped, and they wish them
3:25
S3: the best. But the stories I've heard describe long conversations
3:30
S3: that go late into the night, debates between them and
3:32
S3: the elder them asking, saying they plan to leave, being
3:35
S3: told that you'll go to hell. The devil has you
3:38
S3: in the palm of his hands. These people are terrified.
3:42
S3: They've been told their whole life that leaving this church
3:45
S3: community is entering a world of hell, destruction, chaos. Alexandra
3:52
S3: Garth genuinely thought she was going to be hit by
3:54
S3: a car or be struck down by God for leaving
3:57
S3: the church. It took her years to feel safe. Outside
4:00
S3: they have all had to massively deprogram. So in Alexandra's case,
4:06
S3: she said that elders stood in front of her for hours.
4:09
S3: She couldn't get past them. She was very careful to
4:12
S3: just not touch them, but she couldn't get around them
4:15
S3: for hours. And that was so emotionally draining on her.
4:20
S4: And you've spoken to dozens.
4:21
S1: Of other former students, school staff and grandchildren of founding
4:25
S1: church members who have come forward with their own allegations.
4:28
S1: So what have they told you?
4:30
S3: Yeah, it's wide ranging and it spreads across decades. But
4:34
S3: I've heard stories of the school telling students what color
4:39
S3: underwear to wear that's actually in their handbook. Um, I've
4:42
S3: heard reports that allegedly underwear texts used to happen, although
4:46
S3: this no longer happens today. Uh, students clean the school
4:50
S3: on Friday during lunchtime. It goes beyond traditional, you know,
4:54
S3: tidying up your desk or putting away your books. It's vacuuming,
4:58
S3: cleaning windows, cleaning bathrooms. It's quite extensive work. Um, and
5:03
S3: then I think the thing that catches everyone's attention is
5:06
S3: the fact that they don't pay their teachers wages.
5:10
S1: Yeah. Tell us, tell us about this because you've just
5:12
S1: reported that the school has made a lot of money
5:14
S1: but doesn't pay its teachers. So I guess tell us
5:17
S1: a bit about that and whether this factors into, I guess,
5:20
S1: any of the allegations of the people you've spoken to.
5:23
S5: Yeah, it's a pretty.
5:23
S3: Astounding fact in this story. The school classes, all of
5:28
S3: its teachers as volunteers, members of the Ministry, Order of
5:31
S3: Redeemer Baptist Church, and by signing a ministry order, these
5:35
S3: people essentially give up their right for property, their right
5:40
S3: to receive a salary, superannuation, all the traditional things that
5:45
S3: would come with a full time teaching role. Instead, they
5:47
S3: just receive a small stipend. It essentially means, and this
5:51
S3: is what the members that I've spoken to have told
5:53
S3: me that you become reliant on the church to pay
5:57
S3: for your housing. Your. They all live in homes owned
6:00
S3: by the school. The church covers your rent, your utilities,
6:04
S3: your car, your petrol. But it means that there's no
6:07
S3: way to get ahead. There's no way to save. There's
6:09
S3: no superannuation. So if you ever want to leave. Well,
6:12
S3: many are leaving with nothing.
6:13
S1: And I want to ask you about another repercussion that
6:16
S1: might come from this. According to the allegations, because you
6:19
S1: spoke with one former church leader who spent 44 years
6:22
S1: inside the community before leaving with his family five years ago.
6:26
S1: This former leader, who asked not to be named, recalls
6:28
S1: that members emailed elders for permission to take a family
6:32
S1: holiday or to join a university group. So is that
6:37
S1: something you heard from other people? People feeling that they
6:39
S1: don't have control over various decisions in their life?
6:43
S3: Totally. And look, that's just one example, but I think
6:47
S3: it speaks to the nature of the church. It's not
6:51
S3: one big thing that they control. It's a million little
6:54
S3: small things. So if you're a student and you're born
6:57
S3: into the church, you can't just decide what you want
7:00
S3: to study at university. That's done with close, close discussions
7:04
S3: and I guess monitoring and direction from the school eldership.
7:09
S3: Who is the principal, the school headmaster, who are also
7:13
S3: both head leaders and elders in the church. I've heard
7:16
S3: of students saying that, you know, they were told what
7:18
S3: university course to study. They had to secretly log in
7:21
S3: to change their university course because the elders told them, no,
7:24
S3: you're not doing that. It's controlling who you marry. You know,
7:28
S3: there's no just liking somebody, asking them out on a date.
7:31
S3: You know, you have to get the elders approval first.
7:34
S3: And only men are asking women out on dates here.
7:37
S3: It's not the other way around, ever. Students are. It
7:40
S3: actually says in the school handbook students cannot have special
7:44
S3: boy girl relationships. Now, Redeemer denies these allegations, but that
7:49
S3: doesn't match up with what our sources have told us
7:52
S3: and the evidence we found.
7:53
S1: Okay. Well, I want to ask you about another explosive
7:56
S1: allegation that one woman has spoken to you about. This
7:59
S1: is Vanessa Bromhead. She was born into the church. She
8:02
S1: later became a teacher at the school. And she has
8:05
S1: alleged that one of the most effective ways that the
8:07
S1: church gained control over its members was to, quote, break up, unquote,
8:11
S1: the main family unit. So tell me about these allegations.
8:15
S3: Yeah, this was some of the saddest allegations that I
8:18
S3: heard during the course of this investigation. And essentially, and
8:23
S3: this is in the ministry order. But elders have control
8:27
S3: of where members live. And it was quite a routine
8:31
S3: action of the church to move children from outside of
8:36
S3: their family home and into the homes of elders or
8:39
S3: other community members. We're speaking to one boy who's sharing
8:43
S3: his story with us today, and we'll be out soon.
8:46
S3: But he spent at least half of his life living
8:49
S3: inside the home of Jonathan Cannon, the church leader and
8:53
S3: school principal. It means that those bonds that you have
8:57
S3: with your family, they don't form. Or if they do form,
8:59
S3: they're broken. It creates a generation of younger people who
9:04
S3: feel quite displaced, and they have a lot of trouble
9:07
S3: feeling settled and at home, because their whole life, they
9:11
S3: didn't really get to experience stability.
9:13
S1: And why do these people allege that the elders would
9:17
S1: do this, would move children out of their family homes
9:19
S1: into the homes of elders.
9:21
S3: It's presented to them as a chance to grow up,
9:24
S3: to get responsibility, to face the world on their own.
9:28
S3: But the reality is, when many of these people are moved,
9:31
S3: they're still children. They might be teenagers. Sometimes they're even younger,
9:35
S3: but they're still learning. They're still growing, and it's presented
9:38
S3: as if, you know, the elders are the ultimate role
9:41
S3: models in this community. To live with the elders is
9:44
S3: a chance to live with the person you're meant to be.
9:48
S3: It's seen as a chance to grow, and that this
9:51
S3: is a better thing for you than being with your parents.
9:53
S3: But the reality is, for many of them, the consequences
9:58
S3: are much more harmful than the benefits.
10:01
S1: And I wanted to ask you about allegations of isolation
10:04
S1: that some people have spoken to you about in referencing
10:08
S1: one student in particular from China, who spoke to you
10:10
S1: on the condition of anonymity out of lingering fear of
10:13
S1: the school. I believe, the student said. And the student
10:16
S1: added that his mobile phone and iPad were seized upon arrival,
10:20
S1: limiting his contact with his parents to a single phone
10:22
S1: call every two weeks. He said to you, I couldn't
10:26
S1: access the outside world for four years when I lived
10:28
S1: with them. So is that an isolated allegation of isolation
10:33
S1: from the outside world that you received?
10:36
S3: I've heard a number of allegations from different church members, ex-students,
10:41
S3: ex boarding or homestay students, as they call it, that
10:44
S3: this was very common procedure. In fact, this was confirmed
10:47
S3: by that former elder who spoke to us on the
10:50
S3: condition of anonymity. The students were effectively cut off from
10:54
S3: the outside world when they lived in Redeemer. This could
10:58
S3: be collecting firewood, um, cleaning elders homes, cleaning gutters. It was.
11:03
S3: It's essentially anything that needed to be done that was
11:06
S3: part of their duties. They described a world where they
11:10
S3: felt they were constantly being watched. They had to have
11:13
S3: their laptops in the lounge room open so everyone could
11:16
S3: see what they were on. One student said that her
11:19
S3: door had to remain open at all times, so it's
11:21
S3: quite an isolating experience. Yet at the same time, you're
11:26
S3: never alone.
11:32
S1: We'll be right back.
11:39
S6: And so what is the.
11:40
S1: Goal of this church? According to both those who support
11:43
S1: it and those who have said that they had to
11:45
S1: escape it.
11:46
S3: Redeemer will say the goal is to create a community
11:50
S3: that helps vulnerable members. They want to do good work
11:54
S3: and and help those in need. And that's part of
11:58
S3: the reason they do homestay to take in children who
12:01
S3: might be having a difficult home life, or having trouble
12:04
S3: focusing and studying. But the reality is that for some
12:07
S3: of these children, they feel they have little to no choice.
12:10
S3: Sometimes they're given ultimatums, move in to an elder or
12:14
S3: community member's house, or be expelled from the school. And
12:18
S3: when push comes to shove, most will choose the home.
12:22
S6: But some of these allegations.
12:23
S1: Aren't new at all. So who had been told about
12:26
S1: these allegations in years gone by, and what was their response?
12:29
S3: Yeah, that was something that really surprised me with this story,
12:33
S3: was just how much evidence and articles and public information
12:39
S3: was already out there about this school. It was a
12:42
S3: bit hard to find, but if you did a little digging,
12:44
S3: it was all there more than 20 years ago, a
12:47
S3: series of whistleblowers, ex-members, and just people in the community
12:51
S3: who saw something that they wanted to stand up for
12:54
S3: spoke out against what was going on in the school.
12:56
S3: There was a series of articles published in the Parramatta
12:59
S3: Sun in our own paper, The Sydney Morning Herald, and
13:02
S3: as well as a series of online news stories. But
13:06
S3: basically the documents show that the Ombudsman, the Board of Studies,
13:10
S3: now NASA, the Education Department, senior government members were aware
13:17
S3: of what was going on in Redeemer, the allegations of
13:20
S3: what was going on in Redeemer. But what they found
13:23
S3: was that it was either not in their jurisdiction or
13:26
S3: ultimately none of the allegations could be sustained.
13:29
S1: And so was it the case that authorities at the
13:31
S1: time just didn't consider that there was anything unlawful? Because
13:35
S1: I believe there was one staff member about whom there
13:38
S1: was an allegation. But a superior court found that the
13:40
S1: defendants staff member was innocent. Is that right?
13:43
S3: Yes. Yeah, that was a more recent case. Yes. Essentially,
13:46
S3: it was found that the allegations couldn't be substantiated. And
13:51
S3: speaking to people familiar with the situation on background, many
13:56
S3: seem to feel that that didn't go far enough, but
13:59
S3: there was little they could do. So there's hope that
14:02
S3: this time around, maybe things will be looked at differently.
14:04
S1: But you have had some responses from authorities within the
14:07
S1: education sector. What have they said after being made aware
14:10
S1: of these allegations in your story?
14:12
S3: Yeah, there has been quite a strong reaction to this story.
14:17
S3: The New South Wales Education Minister has said that it's
14:21
S3: appropriate that Nesa, the New South Wales Education Standards Authority,
14:26
S3: look into the school, as has the Federal education Minister,
14:30
S3: Jason Clare. He has also said that it is appropriate
14:33
S3: that this is looked into. Now what will come of
14:37
S3: that is yet to be seen, but it's promising to
14:39
S3: know that this will be given the same scrutiny that
14:42
S3: we've been giving them.
14:43
S1: Now, assuming that the church has been made aware of
14:46
S1: the allegations in your piece, what has the school and
14:49
S1: the church said in response?
14:51
S3: The response has been interesting. They've denied the majority of
14:56
S3: the allegations that we have reported. They curiously said that
15:01
S3: they have no reports of students living with teachers sharing bedrooms,
15:07
S3: despite Principal Jonathan Cannon himself in a 2017 principal's address
15:13
S3: admitting to housing a student inside his home. So it's
15:18
S3: quite a peculiar response. The school's maintained that they're not
15:22
S3: doing anything illegal. Everything they're doing is within the current
15:26
S3: laws and regulations, and that's correct. I think the question
15:29
S3: here is that, and that the question that people are
15:32
S3: asking is that are the current laws and regulations, should
15:35
S3: they remain as they currently stand?
15:37
S1: And Emily, just to wrap up, you made a video
15:39
S1: that aired on our mastheads the other day in which
15:42
S1: you reported the basics of this investigation you've undertaken. And
15:45
S1: you appeared quite moved by the details of this case.
15:48
S1: So I just wanted to ask you, what is it
15:50
S1: about this story that has moved you so much?
15:53
S3: I feel like I've lived breathed this story for the
15:55
S3: last six months. It's in many ways all I think about.
15:58
S3: I think what's really stuck with me is just how
16:02
S3: similar every single person's story is spread across decades. They're
16:07
S3: all unique in that they're all their own individual story,
16:10
S3: but the patterns that go across all of them are
16:14
S3: you can't deny them. What's moved me is how you
16:17
S3: can see the impact that this, this upbringing has had
16:20
S3: on these people, even people who weren't a part of
16:23
S3: the church and just attended the school say that it's
16:26
S3: had a lasting impact on their life. It's impacted the
16:30
S3: way they see authority control. It's changed the way they
16:36
S3: approach work. Many of them can't find peace, be settled.
16:40
S3: Some are frozen in the age they I left that
16:42
S3: community looking at them in the eye. You can see
16:45
S3: the impact this has had on them, and it just
16:48
S3: makes you want to do the story justice and to
16:51
S3: cover it in its full extent. I think the other
16:54
S3: thing that's moved me is that this is not a
16:57
S3: new story. This is not new. This has been going
17:00
S3: on for some time now, and this has been known
17:02
S3: about for some time now. We're just bringing it to
17:04
S3: the surface again.
17:10
S1: Well, thank you so much, Emily, for your time.
17:13
S3: Thanks for having me.
17:30
S1: In other news, today, Australia now has two confirmed cases
17:34
S1: of the highly contagious H5 bird flu after a second
17:38
S1: bird was confirmed as positive. Environment Minister Murray Watt has
17:42
S1: said the best thing that people can do is avoid
17:44
S1: contact with unwell or dead birds. Australia's medical watchdog, the
17:48
S1: Australian Health Practitioner and Regulation Agency, is facing a backlash
17:53
S1: from more than 1400 health workers after adopting a controversial
17:58
S1: definition of anti-Semitism to assess complaints against practitioners. And Europe
18:04
S1: correspondent David Crowe is in the UK, covering the breaking
18:07
S1: news on British Prime Minister Keir Starmer and his political future.
18:12
S1: Follow all our coverage@smh.com.au and the age.com.au. Today's episode was
18:19
S1: produced by Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills,
18:24
S1: and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick.
18:28
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