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Inside the White House Correspondents Dinner Incident — Secret Service Insider Darin Kinder Responds · Unshaken & Unafraid with Joe Pags

0:00
Speaker 1: Everybody's got an opinion about what happened in the White
0:02
Speaker 1: House correspondence dinner in DC on Saturday night, But there
0:05
Speaker 1: are a few details in this story that simply don't
0:07
Speaker 1: immediately add up. So instead of speculating or guessing, I
0:10
Speaker 1: brought in a former Secret Service agent to walk through
0:13
Speaker 1: what actually could have happened and how do you prevent
0:16
Speaker 1: it next time? But how exactly do you get into
0:19
Speaker 1: the Hilton with a gun, either assembled or disassembled, knowing
0:23
Speaker 1: that twenty five hundred of the most important people in
0:26
Speaker 1: town are going to be in that Hilton on Saturday night?
0:28
Speaker 1: How does that even happen? Can you gander a guess?
0:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got to go a step by step Joe.
0:35
Speaker 2: First of all, this is the Washington Hilton, massive hotel,
0:38
Speaker 2: eleven hundred rooms, eleven hundred guest rooms, not counting the
0:40
Speaker 2: ballrooms and lobby levels and so forth. So that's a massive,
0:45
Speaker 2: massive complex, and that kind of circumstance. You're not typically
0:48
Speaker 2: going to set up magnatometers in the lobby of a
0:51
Speaker 2: hotel that size and run every single piece of luggage
0:56
Speaker 2: and every single guest through the magna commers. So it
0:59
Speaker 2: appears from the reporting he got into the he gained
1:01
Speaker 2: access to the hotel by being I guess at the hotel. So, uh,
1:06
Speaker 2: in the lobby or something during an event like that,
1:08
Speaker 2: they're going to have to show a room key, or
1:10
Speaker 2: have to show an email or a ticket that says
1:13
Speaker 2: that they're into this event, or they have business in
1:15
Speaker 2: the hotel. Right, So he has business in the hotel
1:18
Speaker 2: because he is a guest. So you and I can
1:22
Speaker 2: check into We can get any any Hampton in or Ritz, Carlton,
1:26
Speaker 2: and no one's gonna no one's gonna check our bags.
1:29
Speaker 2: So that's how a weapon gets onto the complex. Now
1:33
Speaker 2: after that, Uh, then the Secret Service security protocols and
1:37
Speaker 2: the multi layers, the multi rings of defense come into play.
1:41
Speaker 2: And I mean we can we can kind of quarterback
1:44
Speaker 2: this uh and and style point. What I would say,
1:47
Speaker 2: I would push back a little bit and say, is
1:48
Speaker 2: ultimately a job well done. We can we can make
1:51
Speaker 2: some corrections for sure, But I think at the end
1:54
Speaker 2: of the day, Uh, this assailant was at first contact
1:58
Speaker 2: with the US Secret Service, was put on the ground.
2:01
Speaker 2: Now had that should that have been pushed out a
2:03
Speaker 2: little further? You know, you have to know the details
2:06
Speaker 2: of the event and of the structure right, but he
2:08
Speaker 2: still had an entire staircase, it seems like to climb
2:12
Speaker 2: to get up to the next level, and beyond that
2:14
Speaker 2: level there would be other agents and police officers there
2:17
Speaker 2: as well, before even making it to the ballroom.
2:19
Speaker 1: It's a Darren Kinder go get his book called Bury
2:21
Speaker 1: Me in a Dirty Suit. So let's break it all down.
2:24
Speaker 1: I'm not here to I'm going to Monday Morning quarterback.
2:26
Speaker 1: Everybody is Monday Morning quarterback. And that's exactly what you
2:28
Speaker 1: and I are doing, but hopefully exactly right we're doing
2:32
Speaker 1: on the right day. But I think that people should
2:35
Speaker 1: be asking really important questions. I don't understand the procedure
2:38
Speaker 1: that Secret Service would put in place. So let me
2:40
Speaker 1: ask you the procedure. Yes, it's a hotel that you
2:42
Speaker 1: and I can go and stay at. And this guy
2:44
Speaker 1: obviously had a room. He had business in the hotel.
2:47
Speaker 1: Knowing that that event is going to happen. The President,
2:49
Speaker 1: the Vice President, the Secretary of State, everybody, FBI Director
2:51
Speaker 1: alreadys going to be there, the Secretary of War. Do
2:55
Speaker 1: you vent as the Secret Service go through the guest
2:57
Speaker 1: list and say, is there a flag raised by anybody
3:01
Speaker 1: who's staying here right now. Now, you and I know
3:03
Speaker 1: in retrospect there wasn't a flag. This guy's a teacher
3:06
Speaker 1: from California. We didn't know that he was a nutjob.
3:08
Speaker 1: Having said that, is that part of the procedure.
3:12
Speaker 2: That's going to be definitely in a smaller hotel. In
3:15
Speaker 2: a larger hotel like this, they are gonna look through
3:18
Speaker 2: the people. They are going to look for red flags
3:20
Speaker 2: as well, especially anyone who would be in proximity. I
3:24
Speaker 2: mean to be clear, every guest is not going to
3:28
Speaker 2: be able to be run through any kind of system,
3:30
Speaker 2: but anyone I mean with any legitimate within any legitimate
3:35
Speaker 2: space or access to the area that would be anywhere
3:37
Speaker 2: near in this case, the president, the vice president and
3:39
Speaker 2: other cabinet officials. Yes, they're going to be screened, not
3:42
Speaker 2: only screened physically, but their identities and so forth have
3:45
Speaker 2: been checked, and don't check before that.
3:47
Speaker 1: It is Darren kinder Good his book called Bery Me
3:49
Speaker 1: in a Dirty City's a former Secret Service agent. We've
3:52
Speaker 1: all now seen the grainy video and the point has
3:54
Speaker 1: been made. It's a good point, Darren, that my camera
3:57
Speaker 1: at my front door is eighty thousand times better resolution
4:01
Speaker 1: than what we're seeing. Is there a better video that
4:04
Speaker 1: the Secret Service is looking at? Is that the only
4:06
Speaker 1: video from this Hilton and Washington d C. It looks
4:09
Speaker 1: like it was taken in nineteen sixty five. What are
4:11
Speaker 1: your thoughts about the video that the president released that night?
4:14
Speaker 1: We haven't seen anything better resolution since is that available?
4:17
Speaker 2: Do you think my assumption I'm operating on assumption because
4:21
Speaker 2: I'm out of the game right now, but my assumption is, yes,
4:23
Speaker 2: there is a better there's a better video, and that
4:25
Speaker 2: video is being used for to build the criminal case,
4:28
Speaker 2: the law enforcement case against against this individual, Cole Allen.
4:32
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think, and I think that will be
4:35
Speaker 2: revealed in due time. You know what many people would
4:39
Speaker 2: say with the released on the night of was was
4:42
Speaker 2: very unusual. I mean probably, Yeah, some people are saying
4:46
Speaker 2: that it's a sign of transparent and so forth. But yes,
4:50
Speaker 2: there's I believe there is going to be a better
4:52
Speaker 2: view to see from that angle and multiple angles.
4:56
Speaker 1: There's so much hatred out there online, so much hatred
4:58
Speaker 1: out there on television. I mean Jimmy Kimmel the other
5:00
Speaker 1: night and MALANIEA. Trump has now spoken about it, calling
5:03
Speaker 1: him out the other night. Showed a shot of her
5:06
Speaker 1: sitting with Baron. It was a video obviously that he
5:08
Speaker 1: grabbed from some other event, and he said, oh, look
5:10
Speaker 1: there's Malanie with the glow of an an expectant widow.
5:14
Speaker 1: I mean saying things like that, where you want the
5:16
Speaker 1: guy to die, you expect him to die. You're making
5:18
Speaker 1: jokes about it. That can't really be helpful as a
5:21
Speaker 1: Secret Service agent. Do you have to be cognizant of
5:24
Speaker 1: what's in the fray, what's in social media, what's on television.
5:27
Speaker 1: There's a higher risk with this guy than there might
5:29
Speaker 1: have been with filling the blank other president or the
5:32
Speaker 1: job is the job as the job and the outside
5:34
Speaker 1: stuff doesn't influence you.
5:36
Speaker 2: You know what, Joe, for twenty five years I said
5:39
Speaker 2: the second part, the latter, the job is the job
5:41
Speaker 2: is the job, and really we're not going to the
5:43
Speaker 2: Secret Service is not going to change much for the
5:45
Speaker 2: president and the vice president, regardless of threat level. I mean,
5:49
Speaker 2: we lock it down the way that we lock it down. However,
5:53
Speaker 2: I mean this is you know, I have compassion and
5:57
Speaker 2: empty from a Secret Service brother's assists who are there now.
6:00
Speaker 2: I mean this is you can say three three legitimate
6:04
Speaker 2: attempts on the current sitting president one. So yeah, yeah,
6:10
Speaker 2: it heightens the awareness for sure. And you've got to understand.
6:13
Speaker 2: Let me just you know, shine a light on the job.
6:16
Speaker 2: You have thousands and thousands of hours show of of
6:20
Speaker 2: tedious of boredom, tedious minute things. You know, you're just
6:24
Speaker 2: and then after thousands of hours of boredom, there's twelve
6:28
Speaker 2: seconds of quick movement and even violence. And so it's
6:32
Speaker 2: a very very difficult job. It's an extremely difficult job.
6:35
Speaker 2: And my hack goes off to them. I mean again, yeah,
6:39
Speaker 2: we can quarterback this thing. It wasn't perfect. I would
6:43
Speaker 2: have liked to have seen, for example, as he's as
6:46
Speaker 2: he's bum rushing and going through the magnetometer itself, him
6:50
Speaker 2: being tackled right then and there he gets tackled about
6:53
Speaker 2: it looks like ten to fifteen feet later. So it
6:56
Speaker 2: could be better. But man, is it's a hard job.
6:59
Speaker 2: It's one of the hardest jobs to do, and my
7:00
Speaker 2: hack is off him.
7:01
Speaker 1: It is Darren Kinder again, former Secret Service agent. Which
7:05
Speaker 1: presidents were you secret Service for?
7:08
Speaker 2: I protected in some fashion all the way from Clinton
7:10
Speaker 2: to Trump, so five five US presidents. I spent most
7:13
Speaker 2: of my time around President Bush. Forty one, forty two,
7:16
Speaker 2: forty three, excuse me, George.
7:18
Speaker 1: Forty three, right, forty there was forty one and forty three,
7:20
Speaker 1: forty two was Clinton. Okay, So let's talk about this
7:23
Speaker 1: president specifically. He seems to be a very different animal,
7:26
Speaker 1: simply because he's a great pr guy. He's a guy
7:29
Speaker 1: that loves the camera, loves the public square. And I'm glad,
7:32
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm glad that he's so transparent as he is.
7:35
Speaker 1: That's going to give you a very different aspect of
7:37
Speaker 1: very different capability what you've got to be able to
7:41
Speaker 1: do when you've got somebody who is so want to
7:43
Speaker 1: be in front of the public. Again, Clinton effervescent. George W.
7:47
Speaker 1: Bush was out there as well. I get it, but
7:49
Speaker 1: nothing really like Donald Trump. This guy wants there to
7:54
Speaker 1: be complete transparency, and that means his face is going
7:57
Speaker 1: to be out in the public as much as humanly possible.
7:59
Speaker 1: Is that does that change the game for you and
8:01
Speaker 1: those who do what you used to do?
8:03
Speaker 2: It does? It certainly changes the operational tempo and the
8:07
Speaker 2: manpower requirements and Secret Service director and his last testimony
8:11
Speaker 2: to Congress, if I believe, was saying, looks as the
8:14
Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight. You know, election comes is coming, and
8:18
Speaker 2: the Olympics will be held in the United States as well.
8:21
Speaker 2: We need more manpower because the operational tempo is to
8:24
Speaker 2: the roof. He is, unlike any other president I've ever
8:27
Speaker 2: witnessed myself, just really embraces that man of the people. Yeah,
8:32
Speaker 2: and that means he's up and close, up, close personal
8:35
Speaker 2: with the people. And that's a challenge for sure. But
8:39
Speaker 2: the men and women the Secret Service are up for it.
8:42
Speaker 1: Is it a different challenge that Like even Saturday night
8:44
Speaker 1: he said, I don't care, I'm going back in because
8:46
Speaker 1: this guy, I mean, he wants to do what he
8:48
Speaker 1: wants to do what he wants to do. At the
8:49
Speaker 1: end of the day, could he have gone back or
8:51
Speaker 1: to the Secret Service saying no, you're lockdown, You're not
8:53
Speaker 1: going back. We can't secure it. How does that relationship
8:55
Speaker 1: work because he's the commander in chief. I'm guessing he
8:58
Speaker 1: can do what he wants to do, but you've got
8:59
Speaker 1: to give him very stern advice.
9:01
Speaker 2: I would guess as well, stern stern advice. Joe, I
9:05
Speaker 2: would love to have been a fly on the wall
9:07
Speaker 2: in that he said, I really wanted to go back in.
9:11
Speaker 2: I believe that everything about him, you know that that
9:15
Speaker 2: you see in public, and I saw firsthand, you would
9:17
Speaker 2: believe that, right. But I really think and I think
9:21
Speaker 2: he's been honest in that. I will say this, I
9:23
Speaker 2: just don't see a scenario in which in which that
9:25
Speaker 2: event picked up and carried forward too many Gosh, it
9:29
Speaker 2: would have been exponentially even more moving parts and just
9:33
Speaker 2: a fraught, a fraught place, and yeah, that would have
9:38
Speaker 2: been really hard. But I'm sure. I'm sure it was
9:41
Speaker 2: a stern stern negotiation, for sure.
9:43
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that he that he. I think you
9:44
Speaker 1: made the right decision. Obviously, you can go back and
9:46
Speaker 1: have it anytime that you want, he says, it'll be
9:48
Speaker 1: in the next thirty days. Let's talk about operationally what
9:51
Speaker 1: happens when you hear the gun shots, because as a
9:54
Speaker 1: layman watching it, not as much of a layman because
9:57
Speaker 1: I've been in news and information for a long time,
9:59
Speaker 1: but as a even watching it, I saw a couple
10:02
Speaker 1: of things go down that maybe go oh, I want
10:03
Speaker 1: to ask Darren about this. One Vice President Advance was
10:07
Speaker 1: grabbed by his coat and basically just taken out. You're
10:09
Speaker 1: out of here, Trump, You had a Secret Service agent
10:13
Speaker 1: stand in front of him, obviously blocking line of sight
10:15
Speaker 1: to the president, So that's good. Then you had more
10:18
Speaker 1: on either side of him. Then you've got the people
10:20
Speaker 1: with the rifles coming in. But he was still sitting there.
10:22
Speaker 1: He must have sat there. It felt like thirty thirty seconds,
10:26
Speaker 1: if not more. What do you think that was all about?
10:29
Speaker 1: They hadn't protected the bad guy would have to take
10:31
Speaker 1: out the Secret Service before they could ever get to
10:33
Speaker 1: the president. So I think what they did was right.
10:35
Speaker 1: But why was Vance out immediately and Trump sat there
10:38
Speaker 1: for a bit?
10:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a fair question. And I think that question
10:42
Speaker 2: is going to be is going to be kicked around
10:44
Speaker 2: in the Secret Service circles a month from now. I
10:47
Speaker 2: have no doubt they all well for their training iterations again,
10:51
Speaker 2: they'll they'll be training these exact scenarios and saying, hey,
10:54
Speaker 2: let's tweak this, let's do this a little different. You
10:57
Speaker 2: did see that that Vance Vice President Vance was let's
11:00
Speaker 2: just say it, eventually essentially man handled, grabbed both shoulders
11:04
Speaker 2: and moved and I would say he was a cooperative protectee,
11:09
Speaker 2: moving right off. And then you saw, as you mentioned,
11:12
Speaker 2: the agent that is on the dais in front of
11:14
Speaker 2: the dais stand up immediately to block line of sight.
11:18
Speaker 2: That man deserves credit. That's a tech book, textbook response.
11:21
Speaker 2: And then two other Secret Service came agents came in
11:23
Speaker 2: on either side of the President and the first lady.
11:27
Speaker 2: You could tell there was a conversation. There was a
11:29
Speaker 2: in my opinion, it sounded it would have sounded like this,
11:31
Speaker 2: let's go, let's go, let's go, right, and he's he's thinking, well,
11:35
Speaker 2: you know what, because remember, and everyone needs to remember this,
11:38
Speaker 2: there wasn't a shooter in the room at the time, right.
11:40
Speaker 2: It was muffled reports from from outside of the hallway
11:44
Speaker 2: down some stairs into a four year so so it's
11:48
Speaker 2: you know, if the gunman had been in the in
11:50
Speaker 2: the actual ballroom at that time, we would have some
11:52
Speaker 2: some much more serious critiques to go on. But uh,
11:55
Speaker 2: and then you know, they covered him, waited for the
11:57
Speaker 2: counter assault team, those guys with the rifles that you mentioned,
12:00
Speaker 2: waited for them to cover off their evacuation and and
12:03
Speaker 2: and scoed it off the stage. So I understand it
12:07
Speaker 2: looks like a delay. And even the president owned it,
12:10
Speaker 2: I think the next day in an I media interview
12:12
Speaker 2: he said, well, you know that was part of me.
12:14
Speaker 2: I was, I was, I was too inquisitive.
12:17
Speaker 1: Well, I was going to ask you about that. I mean,
12:19
Speaker 1: obviously as you said, and you said this very quickly,
12:21
Speaker 1: and you're you're being very careful with your words, and
12:23
Speaker 1: I really love it. But I can hear what you're saying.
12:25
Speaker 1: Jdvan said, Okay, you're grabbing me by my jacket and
12:27
Speaker 1: you're the good guys. I'm going to go with you,
12:29
Speaker 1: whereas Trump might go, let's talk about it. Hey, you
12:32
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And I don't know if he
12:33
Speaker 1: said those exact words, but you could certainly see a
12:35
Speaker 1: guy that's that's very strong willed and very strong headed,
12:38
Speaker 1: going well, I don't know that I'm really in danger.
12:40
Speaker 1: Let's let's see what's really going on first. And at
12:43
Speaker 1: that point it's a challenge. He's about two thirty two
12:45
Speaker 1: forty if not more. You're not just going to pick
12:47
Speaker 1: him up and throw him out. So as the agent
12:50
Speaker 1: standing in front of him or to the side of him,
12:52
Speaker 1: is there a meeting negotiation going on, mister president, we
12:55
Speaker 1: got to go.
12:56
Speaker 2: It is. It is. It is a strong co it
13:00
Speaker 2: is you know, one hand, one hand is on his arm,
13:02
Speaker 2: pulling them here and the other is on on his waist,
13:05
Speaker 2: rushing and mudging and as you're as you're talking and
13:08
Speaker 2: and uh and getting compliance. I mean it as from
13:12
Speaker 2: what we know about the president, is anyone surprised. Uh Now,
13:14
Speaker 2: he was like, oh on, let's let's let's hang out.
13:16
Speaker 2: I don't think this is that bad. Let's let's figure
13:19
Speaker 2: it out. And you mentioned it too, there are physical challenges.
13:22
Speaker 2: He's he's a big man. Uh so so that that
13:26
Speaker 2: place that place a factor as well. You know, it
13:28
Speaker 2: makes me think of the story that former Vice President
13:31
Speaker 2: Cheney used to say for years on nine to eleven
13:34
Speaker 2: when they thought one of the planes was was headed
13:36
Speaker 2: for the White House. You know, he said he would
13:38
Speaker 2: tell the story that two agents came in and grabbed him,
13:41
Speaker 2: kicked open the door, and his feet literally never touched
13:44
Speaker 2: the floor as they were going down to the bunker.
13:46
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the kind of that's the kind of
13:48
Speaker 2: urgency that's that's needed.
13:50
Speaker 1: It's a Darren Kinder. Go get his book. It's called
13:51
Speaker 1: Bury Me in a Dirty Suit. You can get it
13:53
Speaker 1: where you get great books. And he's just he's just
13:55
Speaker 1: a great guy. Darren Kinder dot com is the website
13:57
Speaker 1: to go to his website. I want to go back
13:59
Speaker 1: to the Grady video, and I'm not I don't know
14:01
Speaker 1: their names. I'm not calling him out to anybody else specifically,
14:04
Speaker 1: I'm not smart enough to know what the procedure is
14:06
Speaker 1: supposed to be. But let's just break down what we
14:08
Speaker 1: see in that video. We see the bad guy dart
14:12
Speaker 1: out of nowhere from the left to the right, and
14:15
Speaker 1: the secret Service agent that eventually does you know, realize
14:18
Speaker 1: what's going on, wasn't looking that way. He was looking
14:21
Speaker 1: the way that the guy ended up running. By the
14:23
Speaker 1: time the guy gets there there is he turns, it
14:25
Speaker 1: goes like whoa. And then many people would say he
14:28
Speaker 1: was cowering. I disagree. I know what the procedure is.
14:31
Speaker 1: It sounds like he was actually protecting his weapon, but
14:34
Speaker 1: it looks like he's moving away from the target instead
14:36
Speaker 1: of going toward the target. Well, you watch that, and
14:38
Speaker 1: again I don't know his name. I'm not trying to
14:40
Speaker 1: dock him or call him out, just procedurally. When you
14:42
Speaker 1: watch that, maybe if we're training purposes next time, what
14:45
Speaker 1: did you see go down? Did I just describe it
14:47
Speaker 1: right or was there something there that you would see
14:49
Speaker 1: better with your trained eyes.
14:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I've been on that post Countless Time show.
14:55
Speaker 2: I've been that agent standing off of the magnetometer as
14:59
Speaker 2: a UNI Foreign Division officers are working the magnetometer and
15:02
Speaker 2: screening the people, and we are the agent would be
15:05
Speaker 2: offset while watching their back. And it's usually not a
15:08
Speaker 2: one to one. There's usually another magnatometer two or three.
15:11
Speaker 2: That's you're kind of that you're kind of monitoring. And yeah,
15:15
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's fair to say hold
15:17
Speaker 2: on you. Like I said before, if we're gonna if
15:20
Speaker 2: we're gonna style point this thing, I would you know,
15:22
Speaker 2: you'd like to see that guy braced as he's making
15:25
Speaker 2: his way through the magnetometer, or or tripped and taking
15:28
Speaker 2: down right away. I would not use the word cowering
15:31
Speaker 2: at all.
15:32
Speaker 1: He was.
15:32
Speaker 2: He was clearly uh getting in a defensive position, drawing
15:36
Speaker 2: out his weapon. Uh, there were other shots. He's not
15:39
Speaker 2: the one, it would appear from that video, at least
15:41
Speaker 2: we'll see when the other videos come out. He's not
15:43
Speaker 2: the one that, uh that that returned fire. But uh, yeah,
15:48
Speaker 2: I so I understand that I see, you know, I
15:51
Speaker 2: saw what you saw. But I also know that uh,
15:54
Speaker 2: those split seconds count and gosh, uh, the guy's moving
15:58
Speaker 2: moving so quickly if it's if the weight's on the
16:00
Speaker 2: wrong foot, you're leaning the wrong way, or you're looking
16:03
Speaker 2: at the other magnetometer to your right, as as as
16:06
Speaker 2: he's coming through right. Yeah. But the point is and
16:09
Speaker 2: that I would like and that I want the public
16:10
Speaker 2: to know is had Let's say he continues on, say,
16:14
Speaker 2: say he doesn't get intercepted there, right, he's got at
16:17
Speaker 2: least two more rings of security to get through before
16:19
Speaker 2: he's even possible to get through that ballroom door. So
16:23
Speaker 2: at first contact, you know, wasn't wasn't clean, wasn't perfect.
16:27
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, at first contact
16:29
Speaker 2: with the Secret Service, he was put on the ground
16:31
Speaker 2: and there were still other layers before he got to
16:33
Speaker 2: the ballroom.
16:33
Speaker 1: Well, that's a great point because what we're the public
16:35
Speaker 1: is seeing two things. We're seeing all the Secret Service
16:37
Speaker 1: and all the protection inside the room, and we're seeing
16:40
Speaker 1: the magnetometer. We don't know what happened between the magnetometer
16:42
Speaker 1: and inside the room. And you're saying probably at least one,
16:45
Speaker 1: if not two, or three layers of security that would
16:48
Speaker 1: have stopped him from getting there anyway.
16:50
Speaker 2: Exactly Joe, You're what we're seeing in that grainy video
16:53
Speaker 2: is the fourth ring, and what you're seeing inside the
16:55
Speaker 2: ballroom is the is the first ring? I got you,
16:58
Speaker 2: and there's rings two and three in between there.
16:59
Speaker 1: Correct, it is Darren Kinder, Go and get his book.
17:02
Speaker 1: It's called Bury Me in a Dirty Suit. So as
17:04
Speaker 1: we watch that unfold, we don't know who shot who yet,
17:08
Speaker 1: and we know that a Secret Service agent was shot
17:10
Speaker 1: in the vest. That's what we were told early on today.
17:13
Speaker 1: There are some reports it might have been friendly fire.
17:15
Speaker 1: I don't know. But let me ask you this, and again,
17:17
Speaker 1: I'm not ask you to drag anybody. I just want
17:19
Speaker 1: to I just want to figure out what the hell
17:20
Speaker 1: happens Saturday night. How does the Secret Service not hit
17:23
Speaker 1: and hit this guy at all? I mean, nobody got
17:25
Speaker 1: the guy. Now. I realized he was going fast, but
17:28
Speaker 1: at some point they had he had to have stopped
17:30
Speaker 1: or else. How did they catch him? But I don't
17:32
Speaker 1: know how many, how many fire how many shots were fired?
17:34
Speaker 1: I do know that a Secret Service agent was hit
17:37
Speaker 1: by somebody. What do you what do you account for?
17:40
Speaker 1: Nobody hit the guy, not even in the leg.
17:42
Speaker 2: I mean nothing, right, I I am just as interested,
17:46
Speaker 2: just as curious as you are. When when, when the
17:49
Speaker 2: final facts come out, and that's gonna take some time.
17:51
Speaker 2: How many rounds were fired? Who shot the rounds? Was
17:54
Speaker 2: there a crossfire situation where you just mentioned it may
17:58
Speaker 2: have been kind of a blue on blue thing. That's
18:00
Speaker 2: the first I've heard. I haven't seen that reporting yet.
18:02
Speaker 1: It's just on it's on X. Nobody officially said that,
18:05
Speaker 1: but people are starting to say, and I just wanted
18:08
Speaker 1: to put out if that's possible. I guess it's possible,
18:10
Speaker 1: but I'm not saying that it happened, right.
18:13
Speaker 2: And we got to know how many how many rounds
18:15
Speaker 2: are fired? I mean law enforcement shootings. The statistics show gosh,
18:21
Speaker 2: I can't remember, it's a vast percentage, like seventy percent
18:24
Speaker 2: or something, you know, happened within ten themes of each other.
18:27
Speaker 2: I mean law enforcement shootings are typically across the nation,
18:31
Speaker 2: up close and personal, and it's not in real life.
18:35
Speaker 2: It's not it's it's not always as accurate as when
18:37
Speaker 2: you train, certainly not as accurate as in the movies
18:40
Speaker 2: and TV shows that.
18:41
Speaker 1: Movies it's easy. Yeah, movies, you're you're fifty yards away
18:43
Speaker 1: with a pistol hitting everybody.
18:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I want to know how many rounds are
18:47
Speaker 2: fired by Secret Service personnel or other law enforcement and
18:51
Speaker 2: how many rounds he was firing. It's hard to see
18:53
Speaker 2: because of the poor quality of that video. If he's
18:57
Speaker 2: actually firing rounds as he's going through the checkpoint, it's
19:01
Speaker 2: really hard to determine.
19:03
Speaker 1: Do you also it is therein kinder? Do you also
19:05
Speaker 1: have to keep in mind as a Secret Service agent,
19:07
Speaker 1: you've got twenty five hundred people over here and we
19:10
Speaker 1: just start shooting the place up. This is a hotel,
19:12
Speaker 1: like an active hotel, where there are innocent human beings everywhere.
19:16
Speaker 1: Does that have to play a role in your mentality
19:18
Speaker 1: about it too or not.
19:20
Speaker 2: You've got weight staff, service staff moving around, You've got
19:24
Speaker 2: staff members moving around, You've got Yeah, it's ingrained into you,
19:28
Speaker 2: and this would go for all law enforcement. But you're
19:30
Speaker 2: responsible for every round that leads the chamber of your weapon, right,
19:34
Speaker 2: and if you don't hit what you're trying to hit,
19:37
Speaker 2: what is in the backdrop. So scanning the backdrop, knowing
19:39
Speaker 2: your backdrop, I know for me when I would be
19:41
Speaker 2: at that particular post, and like I've said, I've been
19:43
Speaker 2: at that post many times. I have run through several
19:46
Speaker 2: scenarios in my brain already I get there. I know
19:49
Speaker 2: the layout, I know the situation. I know where I'm
19:53
Speaker 2: gonna blade off left or right if something happens. I
19:55
Speaker 2: know what potential cover I have. I know what my
19:58
Speaker 2: backdrop would be. I mean, in one of the instances,
20:01
Speaker 2: is that always worried me is on the other side
20:03
Speaker 2: of that magnetometer is usually a line of two or
20:06
Speaker 2: three hundred general public trying to get into whatever event
20:08
Speaker 2: you're at.
20:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, great point.
20:09
Speaker 2: You don't want to be hitting those people. So it's
20:12
Speaker 2: a dicey, dicey situation, which is why we we trained
20:15
Speaker 2: so diligently.
20:16
Speaker 1: Darren, in knowing what went down, if you were the
20:19
Speaker 1: head of Secret Service right now, would you implore the
20:22
Speaker 1: president to not have it at a public hotel like that? Again,
20:25
Speaker 1: he wants to go back. He said it that night.
20:27
Speaker 1: I mean, he said it again yesterday. He's going to
20:28
Speaker 1: say it again today. He wants to deal it within
20:31
Speaker 1: thirty days. He wants to have the correspondence dient, or
20:33
Speaker 1: he wants it to happen to prove that bad people
20:35
Speaker 1: can't stop him from living freely and doing what he wants.
20:38
Speaker 1: And I get that perspective. But if you're the chief
20:41
Speaker 1: of Secret Service, you say it's the president, maybe we
20:43
Speaker 1: don't have it there, Maybe we have it at an
20:44
Speaker 1: auditorium that we can better secure. It's something like that.
20:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of conversation is definitely going to be having.
20:52
Speaker 2: You know, an event like this is in American institution. Right,
20:54
Speaker 2: it's an animal thing, and right, it's a lot of passage.
20:57
Speaker 2: And oddly, this was the first time, it sounds like
20:59
Speaker 2: to me the that that the President was attending this
21:02
Speaker 2: this particular event, so he didn't usually attend.
21:04
Speaker 1: He's blowing he's blown it off a lot of us
21:06
Speaker 1: of how mean they are to him.
21:07
Speaker 2: Right, right, right, And and I think that conversation is
21:10
Speaker 2: going to be had, just like you know, last summer
21:12
Speaker 2: of the couple of summers ago, the conversation was, Hey,
21:15
Speaker 2: we can we cut out these outdoor these outdoor event rallies. Right, Yeah,
21:18
Speaker 2: those conversations happen ultimately, Uh, the Secret Service, in my opinion,
21:23
Speaker 2: is only going to have so much weight on those
21:26
Speaker 2: on those cuts and circumstances. My guess if you're making
21:29
Speaker 2: me put money on it, Joe, is is that event
21:31
Speaker 2: will happen in about a month and probably right there
21:33
Speaker 2: after Washington Hilton a fact.
21:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm guessing as well, because we we know Donald Trump.
21:38
Speaker 1: It is Darren Kinder. Go into go to Darren Kinder
21:40
Speaker 1: dot com. It's d A R I N K I
21:43
Speaker 1: N d E R dot com. Go get his book,
21:44
Speaker 1: Bury Me in a Dirty Suit. You talked a little
21:47
Speaker 1: bit about about the the in between, and it's not boredom,
21:50
Speaker 1: but there's just not a whole lot going on most
21:53
Speaker 1: of the time. For a secret service agent, is there
21:55
Speaker 1: special psychological training that you guys have to go through
21:58
Speaker 1: that says you have to be able to snap to
22:00
Speaker 1: attention in a second. You've got to be able to
22:03
Speaker 1: rely on adrenaline when something goes on, because you're right,
22:06
Speaker 1: I mean, most of the day you're you're just sort
22:08
Speaker 1: of it's not yeawning, but it's there's not a whole
22:10
Speaker 1: lot of action, and then all of a sudden, for
22:12
Speaker 1: twelve seconds, you're asked to save. You're asked to save
22:15
Speaker 1: the top you know, the leader of the free world
22:18
Speaker 1: in twelve seconds. And if you don't you know, then
22:21
Speaker 1: then you know you're losing somebody who's a very important person.
22:24
Speaker 1: Would do you go through training to get yourself ready
22:27
Speaker 1: for that. I don't know how you do it.
22:29
Speaker 2: For sure, you're gonna if you're just relying on adenline,
22:31
Speaker 2: adrenaline and reaction, then you're gonna lose. You're going to
22:34
Speaker 2: default to the level of your training. That's why the agents,
22:37
Speaker 2: particularly inside that room on the President's Detail and the
22:40
Speaker 2: Vice presidencytail Uh, they are not making They are not
22:43
Speaker 2: seeing something and making decisions. They are seeing something and
22:46
Speaker 2: knowing what the next step is in the training. So
22:49
Speaker 2: those kinds of those kinds of drills are just repeated
22:52
Speaker 2: ad nauseum. So it's not it's not like, oh, this
22:56
Speaker 2: is happening in front of me, what do I do?
22:57
Speaker 2: That decision has already been made, like that agents standing
23:00
Speaker 2: up on the stage right away to be in the
23:03
Speaker 2: direct line of sight. That's exactly what he is supposed
23:06
Speaker 2: to do. He's not thinking that's what I should do.
23:09
Speaker 2: He's just doing it because it's been it's been drove
23:11
Speaker 2: in him. So yeah, and then as far as the
23:14
Speaker 2: tedious nature of it and the potential boredom of it, Yeah, yeah,
23:19
Speaker 2: we go through training and it's like, look, you've got
23:21
Speaker 2: to stay sharp, Like I mentioned those scenarios. We're taught to,
23:25
Speaker 2: you know, what, you're on post and it maybe times
23:28
Speaker 2: are slow and it could get a little boring. You're
23:30
Speaker 2: constantly running through scenarios. What would I do with this?
23:33
Speaker 2: What would I do with that? So making that I mean,
23:36
Speaker 2: it's a man, it's a hard way. It's a heavy
23:38
Speaker 2: way to live too. Joe, constantly thinking of the worst
23:40
Speaker 2: case scenario in your brain.
23:41
Speaker 1: Trust me, No, I can't even imagine. I mean, it's
23:43
Speaker 1: got to be something to go through your brain like
23:45
Speaker 1: that NonStop. It's got to be Wow. I mean, let's
23:48
Speaker 1: go grab a burger and take a breath for a second.
23:51
Speaker 1: But you've got to be twenty four. If you're on duty,
23:53
Speaker 1: you got to be ready. And if you're not ready,
23:55
Speaker 1: somebody very important might end updying. Do you end up
23:57
Speaker 1: becoming friendly with a protecteed? Does it depend on who
24:00
Speaker 1: that person is about how they deal with you historically,
24:03
Speaker 1: I'm not asking you for comment on this unless you'd
24:05
Speaker 1: like to. Hillary Clinton treated Secret Service like garbage historically.
24:09
Speaker 1: It appears as though the Trump family has befriended some
24:12
Speaker 1: of the Secret Service members. What is the relationship there?
24:15
Speaker 1: I know that it's you're not there to do to
24:16
Speaker 1: have a personal in a relationship. But you spend a
24:19
Speaker 1: lot of time with these people.
24:21
Speaker 2: Sure, sure you know that that's a protect e by
24:24
Speaker 2: protect ee, case by case basis on the on the
24:27
Speaker 2: level of kind of camaraderie that you that you would
24:30
Speaker 2: have with a protect ee. Obviously, the longer you're with them,
24:33
Speaker 2: the more you're with them, the more they know your face,
24:35
Speaker 2: they know you've got two little kids and a wife
24:37
Speaker 2: at home or something. They may ask about that. My
24:39
Speaker 2: personal approach was never really don't really speak unless spoken to.
24:43
Speaker 2: I don't offer an opinion unless unless an opinion was asked,
24:47
Speaker 2: of course. Uh, and that's outside of operation operationally, you're
24:51
Speaker 2: not you're not waiting to be asked, of course. So right,
24:54
Speaker 2: it varies and it and it depends on if the
24:56
Speaker 2: president is currently in office or outside of office. You know,
24:59
Speaker 2: when they're in their in their former president years, things
25:02
Speaker 2: are a little more relaxed as far as relationally, which
25:05
Speaker 2: is h which is unique and you know it's uh,
25:09
Speaker 2: it's it's kind of good in the way. But but yeah,
25:11
Speaker 2: I mean, the closer you are, the more time you
25:13
Speaker 2: spent around them, for sure, and especially the family members,
25:15
Speaker 2: the the extended family members. In this case, you have
25:18
Speaker 2: you know, President Trump has a has a large extended family. Yeah,
25:22
Speaker 2: you're you're actually working, you know, closer and more frequently
25:25
Speaker 2: up close with them, so so so you may have
25:28
Speaker 2: more of a more of a friendly relationship.
25:32
Speaker 1: It might sound like a dumb question, and I hope
25:33
Speaker 1: that it's not. But with the DHS shutdown and the
25:36
Speaker 1: partial government shutdown, I don't know that Secret Service is
25:39
Speaker 1: getting paid. Does that weigh on you? Or does that?
25:41
Speaker 1: Is that not even in the realm, because if you're
25:43
Speaker 1: not getting a pay check, listen, I like what I do.
25:46
Speaker 1: I'm not protecting people's lives. I'll protect my family with
25:48
Speaker 1: my guns. But that's it. You're protecting somebody's life and
25:52
Speaker 1: you might not be getting your your direct deposit. Does
25:54
Speaker 1: that weigh on you at all?
25:57
Speaker 2: It doesn't. It doesn't move the needle on the mission
26:00
Speaker 2: mission is the mission you swat to the Constitution to
26:03
Speaker 2: protect the office of the presidency? Correct? But it really
26:07
Speaker 2: bothers me right now that that this is a political
26:10
Speaker 2: football going back and forth. I am told, and I
26:13
Speaker 2: cannot confirm, I'm told by members of the Secret Service
26:16
Speaker 2: that they currently are getting paid through some kind of uh,
26:20
Speaker 2: some kind of additional fund.
26:22
Speaker 1: I think Trump figured out the funding somehow, right for
26:24
Speaker 1: TSA and for Secret Service. Right.
26:27
Speaker 2: But I went through a couple of shutdowns in my career.
26:29
Speaker 2: I believe the longest one for me. I missed two paychecks.
26:32
Speaker 2: And yeah, that's stressful. Uh, you've got to financially planing,
26:36
Speaker 2: playing your way around that. It's stressful. It doesn't doesn't
26:39
Speaker 2: really take your eye off the ball when it comes
26:41
Speaker 2: to the mission. And that's that's really why I want to, uh,
26:46
Speaker 2: you know, just give as much honor and respect to
26:48
Speaker 2: to the agents that are doing the job. It's harder,
26:50
Speaker 2: in my opinion, than it's ever been. And right now
26:52
Speaker 2: they're working in that environment and they may not may
26:55
Speaker 2: not know when and if their next paycheck is coming.
26:57
Speaker 2: But I have no doubt the mission is going to get.
27:00
Speaker 1: I mean, it takes a very special human being to
27:02
Speaker 1: do what you did. It just does. And I say
27:05
Speaker 1: that for a few different reasons. I have all the
27:08
Speaker 1: ability every day to go on my show and say
27:10
Speaker 1: I didn't like what the Biden administration did here, didn't
27:12
Speaker 1: like what Clinton did over there, I didn't like what
27:14
Speaker 1: Obama did over there. I'm a supporter of Trump or
27:16
Speaker 1: I'm a supporter what George W. Bush? Did you know?
27:18
Speaker 1: I can have the freedom to do that. You guys
27:20
Speaker 1: can't do that at all in your job. And it's
27:22
Speaker 1: got to take a special kind of person because I
27:25
Speaker 1: don't know if you're four or against the left or
27:27
Speaker 1: the right, and Darren I probably shouldn't know that. Is
27:30
Speaker 1: there any like when you guys are gathering and you're
27:32
Speaker 1: not maybe you're off and maybe you guys are going
27:34
Speaker 1: to go out to dinner with another agent and his family.
27:37
Speaker 1: Is there any political talk to you? I mean, you
27:39
Speaker 1: guys all have political leanings. That's obvious. You're human beings.
27:42
Speaker 1: I mean, but to put that aside is very difficult.
27:44
Speaker 1: Do you have that outlet when you're an agent to
27:46
Speaker 1: maybe talk to somebody else about it?
27:47
Speaker 2: Hey?
27:47
Speaker 1: Do you keep that to yourself even with them?
27:50
Speaker 2: Sure, you're going to have those conversations. You're gonna talk
27:52
Speaker 2: about sports, you're gonna talk about faith, you're going to
27:55
Speaker 2: talk about politics, all of those things that are you
27:58
Speaker 2: going to talk about your family? All those things are normal?
28:01
Speaker 2: But it is really Joe I say, to this day,
28:04
Speaker 2: it may be the last a political agency within the
28:07
Speaker 2: US government. I mean, it is from day one, just
28:10
Speaker 2: drilled in your brain that the uh you know, I
28:15
Speaker 2: like to refer to the unofficial motto of the Secret Services.
28:17
Speaker 2: You elect them, we protect them, right right, and you
28:21
Speaker 2: square enough to to the office that you're going to protect.
28:24
Speaker 2: The Office of the presidents does not matter the man
28:27
Speaker 2: or a woman who is occupying that office. And it
28:30
Speaker 2: really doesn't. And I would tell young agents when I
28:33
Speaker 2: was mentoring them and bringing them along the way, if
28:36
Speaker 2: that's a problem for you, If if you wrestle with that,
28:39
Speaker 2: then this is not the job for you. You need
28:41
Speaker 2: to transfer to it to another agency. And I never,
28:46
Speaker 2: really in a serious manner though, had to encounter that problem.
28:49
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because Dan Bongino on the regular
28:51
Speaker 1: we'll say I would have taken a bullet for Obama.
28:53
Speaker 1: I was protecting. And that's the fact, even if I
28:55
Speaker 1: disagreed with him. So what you say I mean is
28:57
Speaker 1: probably right by any Secret service. Say I've ever talked
29:00
Speaker 1: to Darren. Let's end with this again, not casting his
29:04
Speaker 1: persions about what they did wrong Saturday, but there's going
29:07
Speaker 1: to be another Saturday. As you said, we know this guy,
29:09
Speaker 1: he's pretty bullheaded, he's going to go back to that
29:11
Speaker 1: hotel in that ballroom and do the whole thing again
29:14
Speaker 1: at some point within the next thirty days. How do
29:17
Speaker 1: you change or how do you prepare differently this time
29:20
Speaker 1: knowing the threat that got at least through the magnetometer
29:22
Speaker 1: last time.
29:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, if I had to guess, I would say push
29:27
Speaker 2: out the perimeter just a little bit, either in a
29:30
Speaker 2: uniform presence or an overt known presence, or in a
29:34
Speaker 2: more covert plan cos presence kind of be in the
29:38
Speaker 2: lot of you know, kind of be unofficial well official
29:41
Speaker 2: eyes and ears beyond the beyond the standard magnetometer checkpoints.
29:46
Speaker 2: Because the last thing you want to do is is,
29:49
Speaker 2: you know, have a have a copycat incident or something
29:51
Speaker 2: like that. So so yeah, that that that will be
29:54
Speaker 2: taken into account. There would for sure be additional manpower
29:58
Speaker 2: in place. But I would I would They're gonna they're
30:00
Speaker 2: gonna push that out in an overt way and in
30:03
Speaker 2: a covert way to have more eyes.
30:04
Speaker 1: In the ears and instead of four you know sort
30:07
Speaker 1: of security points that you pointed out, maybe you'll have five.
30:10
Speaker 1: I mean, because you said more personnel, I'm guessing you
30:12
Speaker 1: had the A team or the A plus team there
30:15
Speaker 1: because you had everybody who was anybody who was there
30:17
Speaker 1: literally in government except for maybe the lone survivor wherever
30:20
Speaker 1: that person happened to be. But do you add more
30:22
Speaker 1: agents and then therefore more levels, because as you said,
30:25
Speaker 1: there were probably four total levels on Saturday, maybe you
30:27
Speaker 1: have five or six.
30:30
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, and definitely a more uniform uniform presence on.
30:34
Speaker 2: Local police would probably lean on that in a heavier capacity,
30:38
Speaker 2: and they would be certainly willing to because no one
30:41
Speaker 2: wants a repeat incident of that, I would think.
30:44
Speaker 1: So, yeah, exactly right, Darren Kinder, bury me in a
30:46
Speaker 1: dirty suit, Go and get the book right now, bury
30:48
Speaker 1: me in a dirty suit. You can go watch a
30:50
Speaker 1: trailer over online on YouTube. Go check that out and
30:52
Speaker 1: go to his website too, Darren Kinder dot com. Darren,
30:55
Speaker 1: let's let's do this again very soon. I always appreciate
30:57
Speaker 1: the incredible knowledge that you have. The twenty four, the
31:00
Speaker 1: twenty fifth, I should say, anniversary of nine to eleven
31:02
Speaker 1: is soon, so hopefully hopefully we can talk before that happens,
31:04
Speaker 1: if you don't mind, I would love to, man. I
31:07
Speaker 1: appreciate you, Joe, I really appreciate you coming on. That's
31:09
Speaker 1: gonna do it for this one that's under, unshaken and
31:11
Speaker 1: unafraid with Joe packed. Another one to drop very soon.
31:13
Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe