Latest / The Curve / Why now is never the right time to invest.

Transcript

Why now is never the right time to invest. · The Curve

0:00
This is very exciting.
0:02
I will say this, Fran, is a record for us in terms of getting someone back in the studio.
0:08
Yes, I feel like it is.
0:10
I feel like I was here yesterday.
0:11
I was about to say it feels like three days ago that you were here.
0:14
It's so fun.
0:15
So fun.
0:15
We, okay, so for anyone that hasn't listened to our first episode with Fran, we'll link
0:20
that in the podcast show notes.
0:22
So we didn't even really talk about this on the podcast, but Fran had listened to the
0:27
podcast for a while.
0:29
Yeah, I've been an OG since the beginning, since the beginning of days.
0:32
So I basically, last podcast, I didn't say this and I wish I had, but I need to shout out the girls who got me onto this.
0:37
Yes.
0:38
One of them, Kate, now lives back in New Zealand.
0:40
But we used to play netball together on Highbury Fields, me, Kate and Liv.
0:45
And Kate and Liv were both Kiwis.
0:47
And Kate said to us one day, oh, my God, you've got to listen to this podcast, The Curve.
0:50
And we're all accountants, by the way.
0:51
We're all chartered accountants.
0:53
So we're like kind of had similar work lives.
0:55
And then we got into it.
0:57
And then our wider friend group started getting into it.
1:00
Basically, all we talk about when we get together is the curve goals.
1:03
Like, we know you.
1:04
So when I met Soph for the first time, I was, like, meeting my hero.
1:08
And that's, like, such a typical example of a parasocial relationship, right?
1:12
Oh, my God.
1:12
It makes me, like, weirdly emotional.
1:13
I knew everything about you.
1:15
It's so cool.
1:15
And you didn't know anything about me.
1:17
And then it was so nice the other day when you came to my house.
1:20
And then you left.
1:21
And you were like, it's so weird.
1:22
I feel like I've known you forever.
1:23
and I feel like I've known you forever because I literally have been listening to you for like
1:27
four years and it was so nice that you feel the same way yeah I mean I honestly it's I was saying
1:33
off mic I was saying it's such a you know podcasting there's something so intimate about it
1:38
you forget a that people listen yeah you also because we've ran like it's different to social
1:43
media where you just have little short form you know quite quick in and out videos it's really
1:49
so much of your personality and yeah I totally feel that in reverse for so many of the podcasts
1:54
that I listen to but it is funny we were talking you know when you meet people you're an adult you
1:59
either like click or you don't yeah and when you really click which is actually quite rare it's so
2:04
nice to feel like you're like okay cool we're so similar we have so much in common so yeah this is
2:10
this is just you know maybe an excuse to get Fran back in um on the podcast but our first
2:14
conversation was very different to what we're going to talk about today.
2:17
So part one for anyone
2:19
that hasn't listened, we did a big deep dive on spending and being more aligned with how you spend
2:25
your money, which I think is just such a glazed over topic.
2:30
People don't give it anywhere near
2:32
enough airtime.
2:32
And it's so incredibly linked to our wealth creation and our lifestyles and how we
2:39
live.
2:39
So I think if you haven't listened to that episode, definitely go back.
2:42
It's all about
2:43
starting to look at where you spend your money and aligning the kind of life that you want and
2:47
your value set with yeah how you're spending exactly but today very different topic today
2:53
we are going down an investing rabbit hole really are so context vick and i spoke at london business
3:01
school a couple of months ago now we were at this talk and someone put their hand up at the end and
3:06
she just said look i'm just feeling really overwhelmed with the state of the world i feel
3:09
like there's so much happening there's wars oil there's you know she started listing off all these
3:16
enormous quite scary significant global events that are tied into politics and money and oh it's
3:24
just it feels like a bit of a web at the moment she said I feel like with all this stuff going on
3:29
I don't think it's it doesn't feel like a great time to invest um and I just want to hear you
3:34
speak to that and Vic and I looked at each other and we're like oh my god where do we even start
3:39
with answering this and we gave kind of an off the hand comment but we said to her we're going
3:43
to do a full podcast on this because it's just such a important conversation to have so that's
3:49
kind of the setup for why we're doing a bit of a history tour really and really just trying to
3:55
help people feel a bit more at ease with their investing approach and putting money in the stock
4:00
market even though the world just feels really chaotic right now and I almost feel like it would
4:06
be better if your mindset if you were a brand new investor to start off with your mindset in this
4:14
way that we're going to talk about now like to never be in a mindset of trying to time the market
4:19
or be really smart about it or overthink it because actually if you just go into it with
4:25
this kind of oh my gosh when the stock market's down it's an opportunity not a bad thing mindset
4:30
from the beginning you look at the stock market in a very different way I think and investing.
4:35
I totally agree.
4:36
And it's really interesting because when I was preparing for this episode, I was reflecting back because I've only known about investing properly, probably two to three years, but the curve's been going for like five.
4:48
But in terms of actively investing, it's actually not been that long, really.
4:52
Yeah.
4:53
But my experience, like when we sort of early days in the curve, the stock market was going really, really badly.
4:59
But I wasn't investing at the time, really.
5:02
I didn't have a lot of money.
5:03
And we kind of, not pivoted, but we really started talking about cost of living and inflation and how to manage your money.
5:11
Because it felt like almost a bit tone deaf to be talking about investing when people were struggling to pay for groceries and petrol.
5:20
So this was kind of, you know, 2022.
5:23
Like it was a while ago.
5:26
And then I guess for the past kind of, yeah, few years,
5:30
things have felt really exciting and positive.
5:32
And it's sort of been going up and up and up.
5:34
And yes, there's been wobbles, which we're going to talk about in a second.
5:37
But one of the things that Vic has always spoken about for a really long time,
5:42
and we talk about a lot of the curve, is this like time horizon.
5:46
And the idea of investing, putting the money in the stock market
5:49
that you're not going to need for a minimum of five years.
5:53
and I think I got a little bit cocky on this and I started feeling a little bit like oh that's so
5:59
conservative yeah and actually I'm just going to use my saving money and grow it faster rather than
6:05
putting it in a term deposit if I need the money in two years why would I not put that in more high
6:11
risk and grow it faster but doing the research for this and the context of what's happening right now
6:16
has really made me look at that five-year horizon.
6:19
And I think it's just such a good yardstick.
6:24
If you're feeling nervous, the money we're going to be talking about investing today is not your
6:30
emergency fund.
6:31
Crucial.
6:32
It's not money that you're going to need for a house deposit.
6:35
It's not money
6:36
that you need at all for anything in the next five years.
6:39
And I think that that's just the preface
6:41
here because if you approach investing with that lens there is literally no reason to a not invest
6:48
or be being scared 100 agree with you i think so many people get so confused by all the information
6:53
that's out there and without taking a step back and going like this is this is how my mind said
6:59
things about it number one is paying off all your debts number two is building up an emergency fund
7:04
and number three is then investing in the stock market so if you haven't done number one and
7:08
number two.
7:09
Number three shouldn't be like on your radar.
7:12
And I think where investing becomes
7:13
very scary is if you have no emergency fund or you are trying to invest money that you're going
7:22
to need in the next few years, because then you are at the mercy of what the stock market does.
7:26
And of course, you're going to be opening your investing accounts and looking at your investments
7:30
constantly and absolutely sweating bullets.
7:33
Because as you say, if you're going to need to
7:35
go and buy something massive or even to be honest not even something massive even if you need 500
7:41
pounds for a visa or something and you go and put that money in the stock market we all know the
7:48
whole point of the stock market is that it goes up and down if you need to pull that money out when
7:52
it's down diabolical way too stressful and actually why not just remove all of the little
7:59
stresses from your life one of those being this money you don't need and I did not listen to my
8:05
own advice or Vic's advice or any of the great investors with this, particularly with my money
8:10
to buy my first property.
8:12
And I'll actually maybe when we get to talking about what was happening
8:16
at the time, I'll explain what I did because it was the stupidest thing ever.
8:20
Really close to an
8:21
absolute disaster.
8:22
So the point here is that in the finance world, when people talk about
8:27
actually crystallizing a loss, that's a financial term for just saying you actually haven't lost
8:35
any money if you check it and it says it's down 20% until you pull the money out.
8:40
You actually
8:41
haven't.
8:42
And I think getting your head around that is a really important part of this particular
8:45
episode because it's going to go down.
8:47
It's just going to.
8:49
That is such a good point.
8:51
And if the
8:52
money isn't money that you are going to crystallize, i.e.
8:55
you don't have to pull out at any point,
8:57
it's much easier to separate yourself emotionally from the crashes because you aren't thinking,
9:02
oh my gosh that that is now 500 pounds for gone for the visa that I need next year because this
9:08
money is not even on your radar of needing money for anything in your immediate future I kind of
9:13
think about the money that I've invested as like monopoly money that doesn't feel real to me to me
9:17
because it's not money that I'm gonna be accessing anytime soon so it really doesn't matter yeah
9:23
that's kind of how I think about it it's a really fun way to think of it if you can separate the
9:26
emotional connection which is only really possible to do if it's money you don't need exactly so
9:32
And like if I didn't have an emergency fund and I didn't have like a buffer of extra money that I could use for my immediate like lifestyle things that I want to do, you know, the stock market going down doesn't mean that I can't go on holiday next year.
9:44
It's totally irrelevant to that because that money is somewhere else.
9:47
You know, it doesn't mean that I can't do the things that I want to do.
9:50
Whereas for sure, if I thought in the next like one or two years, I'm going to buy a house, every time the stock market went down, I'd be having an absolute panic because I'd be like, well, now, you know, the 100K deposit that I thought I have is actually now only 80K.
10:02
That changes the house that I can buy.
10:04
So you don't want to be in that position.
10:06
Yeah, which I have been.
10:08
Oh, my God.
10:09
It was a close call.
10:10
It was such a close call.
10:11
because I do think when we talk a lot about putting your short-term goals and that money
10:17
in a place that it's not just being eaten away by inflation you want it to be in a term deposit or
10:23
and you know high interest savings account blah blah I find it really hard because I'm quite
10:27
risky I find it really hard to not think why on earth would I not put that in the stock market
10:32
and grow up faster and I think that I just need to make the decision with myself that if I choose
10:38
to do that and the stock market's down then I have to know that I can't use that money you know
10:44
it has to be something that I don't need to buy at that specific time let's say for example I had
10:49
20,000 that I wanted to put towards a wedding and I wanted to have the wedding in two years and I
10:53
thought I'm going to try and grow this 14,000 to 20,000 in a two-year period and be super risky
10:59
with it which you could totally do yeah if it got to two years and that money was down I'd have to
11:05
be really willing to cancel my wedding literally yeah and say fine that hasn't worked because I
11:10
because that is just not worth it to me to pull the money out so it's almost like are the goals
11:15
set in stone that you needed at that time and will you be potentially putting yourself in a
11:20
really awful position where you've lost money because I think it would put me off investing
11:24
so badly I'd be bitter as hell about it but I think I definitely was anxious to get into the
11:31
stock market as quickly as possible.
11:33
But no one really explained that to me about the time horizons.
11:38
So I was thinking exactly like you're saying, well, I can only get 3% interest on my high
11:43
interest savings account, for instance.
11:44
But if inflation is 6%, that means my money is getting
11:46
eaten.
11:47
It's worth 3% less, even though I got 3% in interest.
11:51
But you almost need to work backwards
11:53
from your goals in your future.
11:55
Do you want a wedding?
11:57
Do you want to buy a house?
11:58
Do you want
11:58
thing and then you got to work back from there and say well is there five years between today
12:03
and that event happening if not don't put in the stock market so on that let's talk about the last
12:09
30 years so if we look at the last 30 years because one of the stats that we talk about all
12:15
the time is that on average over a 30-year period the stock market has gone up to the right by
12:21
around 10 to 11 percent per year so I always forget that yeah it's not 30 it's not if you put
12:27
one pound in 30 years ago at the end of 30 years it's worth 10 pounds no every year we're saying
12:33
on average so it's actually 10 10 to the power of 30 oh you might have to tell that in a different
12:38
way i'm not very good at math skill so what was that it's one whole shot of tequila it's one pound
12:45
becomes one pound in 10p in year two yes and then it becomes one pound in 10p times another 10%
12:51
in year three it goes up and up and up so it's compounding so it's compounding yes but the thing
12:56
is, is that in those 30 years, even though we say that the stock market on average has gone up
13:01
10% per year, in those 30 years, it's actually only been six years where the stock market is down.
13:08
And I actually can't believe that.
13:09
Only six years in 30 years.
13:11
I can't get my head around that,
13:12
where the stock market finished lower than it started.
13:15
So if you put one pound in at the
13:16
beginning, at the end of the year, it was worth less than one pound.
13:19
Only six years.
13:21
So that
13:21
means that if you tried to if you tried to time the market instead of just putting money in
13:25
consistently and you happen to put it in at that time you would be down overall but if you were
13:31
consistently putting in on the ups and on the downs you would be making 10 per year on average
13:36
in the last 30 years yeah and i think that's such a good point there is this absolute insane
13:44
psychological link between and especially i think what we do we focus on the negative in any
13:50
situation right like you have a review with your boss at work you remember the one piece of
13:56
constructive criticism not all of the things that went right you know and I think a lot of us when
14:03
we feel scared or we're worried about the investment it's really easy to focus on the
14:08
six years that it was down rather than the 24 that it was up and 30 years just for context guys like
14:15
imagine if you'd been investing for 30 years the stats speak for themselves and I think that's what
14:19
we want to really go over today the idea that there was only six years that it finished down
14:24
and sure there's been crashes and we're going to speak about them today because that's what
14:28
everyone's talking about is there's going to be a bubble burst it's going to go down the world is
14:33
you know it there's so many things that you could sit there and panic about which to be fair in 30
14:38
years when we were researching for this podcast there is a lot of things that's happened in 30
14:43
years but to think even with all of those things happening this is the average return it's just
14:51
yeah I mean there's times where it's for sure been down a lot but there's times it's been up
14:54
enormously so we're going to work through some of those big crashes just to show you what happened
15:00
so that even if you are investing now which we hope you're investing now it's actually not going
15:05
to take very long for that money to recover even if there is a huge crash yeah and what we've
15:10
realize through researching this is that because Soph and I were talking before this about how
15:16
where does this like three to five year time horizon come from when you talk about investing
15:21
if you look at the five big events that happened in the last 30 years that caused the crashes
15:26
most of the time they are taking between three and five years for the market to recover so that's why
15:31
that's why this three to five year thing comes in all you can really go on as what's happened before
15:36
but it's not a future predictor which is something that you always have to think about like all we
15:40
have is the information for the lot from the last like hundred years of the stock market but it's
15:44
actually not a future predictor and that's what they always say when they give those disclaimers
15:47
like capital at risk what's happened in the past is not a future you know like doesn't tell you
15:51
what the future is but it's the only information we have so let's use it sensibly rather than
15:55
completely disregarding it and you know we were talking about those years where it finished down
16:00
i think it's probably also worth because 30 years sounds like a really long time but actually
16:05
only really two of them and to be honest one massive one has been since I've even known about
16:11
investing the only one that I've seen was in 2022 and it was down 19% yeah which is a huge amount
16:18
right so if you'd put a hundred dollars in by the end of that year you'd only have 80 81 yeah so
16:25
it's not it's not nothing like if you had a lot of money you would have lost it but you have to
16:29
just remember that's a snapshot in time what I also want to just clarify because I actually had
16:34
to look this up before we started speaking is what does a crash mean i feel like the word crash
16:39
is so loaded it sounds like the stock market goes to zero but that's not the case yeah you're like
16:45
oh we're crashing as in we're crashing so it's basically like yeah if you put 100 in and the
16:50
stock market crashes and let's say in 2002 it went down 22 it finished 22 down that means that
16:57
that 100 pounds is now worth 78 pounds it's not worth zero so that's something i wanted to clarify
17:04
even for myself because I was like crash just seems so dramatic and like obviously the media
17:08
loves to say the word crash it's you know it implies panic it's like mass selling it's crazy
17:13
so there's actually no official definition of what a crash is but what they kind of term it is a short
17:20
it's a sharp drop of 10% of more in the stock market index over a short period to like days
17:26
weeks or months and that is quite important to remember when you think about like what actually
17:32
the word crash means because to me crash means the everything is moving in one direction and
17:36
it comes to a complete halt and that's not the case but should we tell them about the five
17:40
events we're talking about because i feel like we're kind of like tempting them tempting everyone
17:43
in the audience okay so so we have these five events that are like the main ones that have
17:47
happened in the last 30 years so first you've got the dot-com crash which is when the worldwide web
17:53
slash internet happened and then everything got overvalued people got scared and then
17:58
they had the dot-com crash which was 2000 2002 before we move on from that we've talked about
18:04
this quite a lot because it's being compared this particular crash is being compared a lot to the ai
18:11
potential bubble and so for anyone that hasn't heard or doesn't know about this basically the
18:18
reason it was called the dot-com crash is it'd be almost like if it was the coolest thing ever for
18:23
someone to be called fran so everyone decides to call themselves fran and then everyone wants to
18:27
be your friend you know it's like it was this weird hype where people you could just put dot
18:31
com on the end of anything and people were like bricks.com and everyone's like oh like if for
18:36
example now if you see someone's email and it's sophie hall right at ai.com dot i dot ai i'm like
18:43
that person's so smart you know it's got this weird connotation of it's almost because we don't
18:48
understand it enough yet for it to be it's like mysterious yes so when everything was it was
18:53
basically incredibly overvalued so all everyone was throwing money in the stock market at businesses
19:00
or people trying to start companies that were dot-com you know websites blah blah blah and then
19:06
there was a huge crash i mean vick talks about this more as a correction it's more just the idea
19:11
that it got sort of excited everyone got out of hand and it just had to almost like recalibrate
19:17
and so that that's what should be called the dot-com recalibrate so that was 2000 does it no
19:22
it doesn't but this was like 2000 so like I mean I was worried about the end of the world at that
19:27
point yeah why 2k do you remember why 2k I mean I remember being in chapel like thinking am I
19:33
gonna wake up tomorrow you know it was a whole thing three of the six down years in the whole
19:40
of the stock market existence in the last 30 years was around that dot-com crash wow so it was in
19:47
2000 it was down 9.1 percent in 2001 it was down 11.9 percent and then 2002 it was down 22.1 percent
19:57
so like the fact that three of those down years happen in such a short space of time it's kind
20:03
of crazy but you know you wouldn't have been stoked if you'd invested in 2000 and then three
20:07
years later you were down as a scary amount that kind of scares me based on what you just said
20:12
about the dot-com bubble being really similar to the ai bubble that's why everyone's because
20:16
Because clearly the most extreme one was the dot-com bubble.
20:20
Ah, yes.
20:21
And now you're saying, or if people are thinking this could be happening again, it could be, you know, three years of really bad downturn.
20:27
But again, as we said, who cares about the next three years?
20:30
This money is going to be there for five years plus.
20:32
This is a really good point because I think that is why everyone's panicking so much is that it did take, I mean, technically, if we get into the second big crash or correction, it was the global financial crisis, which was 2008.
20:46
2009 so essentially from the 2000s to 2009 things were great in the stock it's almost a decade of
20:55
it not being stunning you know so that's not great for a lot of us who are thinking I mean to be fair
21:02
ideally we don't want or need that money until retirement which is a really long way away but
21:08
that's why a lot of people who have a lot of money for example in the S&P 500 the top 500 stocks
21:14
where a lot of these AI companies are listed.
21:17
It's not ideal to lose 50% of that money on paper.
21:22
So I think the time horizon thing is really, really, really important.
21:27
Well, it could also lend itself to then potentially looking at more,
21:33
hashtag not financial advice, but looking at more global equities
21:37
so that you are divesting slightly from the S&P 500
21:41
because you don't want to be in a situation where you are losing more than everyone else.
21:47
I don't know if we should say that, but, you know, like, yeah, I'm a big fan of global equities.
21:52
So am I.
21:53
I think the key thing to remember here is, yeah, we're looking at the S&P 500 with these crashes.
21:59
This isn't the global index.
22:01
And, yeah, there's lots of other stock markets that have done really well when the U.S. hasn't.
22:06
So, yeah, definitely thinking about being diversified is, I mean, that's not even financial advice.
22:11
That's just so generic information that everyone should think about.
22:16
But it is, you know, for example, if you have a lot of money and its majority of it is in the S&P 500, if there is a correction or a drop, you'll really feel it.
22:27
Whereas if you are diversified globally and, you know, you're not just invested heavily in tech companies, which is what people are worried about.
22:35
yeah there's other businesses and industries that do well so this is a bit of an aside but i didn't
22:39
really think about this like i didn't think i really understood this until very recently
22:43
so if you buy a global equities fund okay you are invested in global equities i.e you will have some
22:49
equities from the u.s stock market if you then buy the global equities fund and then you decide to
22:55
also buy the s&p 500 and i feel like there's so much on social media about like the s&p 500 and
22:59
people are only excited about at the moment because it's done so well because all the tech
23:02
companies are in the US and therefore the S&P 500 is doing really well.
23:07
Effectively, you've already
23:08
got the S&P 500 in your global equities.
23:10
So if you have a global equities portfolio and you buy
23:13
the S&P 500, you're actually doubling your exposure in the US, which I think is really
23:18
important for people to know.
23:19
It's like you order a burger and you don't realize it comes with a
23:21
side of fries.
23:22
So you order a separate side of fries and now you've got two sides of fries.
23:25
That's like you've been overexposed.
23:28
I think that's an amazing tip because, yeah, you might
23:31
thinking, don't worry, I'm so diversified.
23:33
I've got global equities.
23:35
And then I've got the S&P 500.
23:37
It's like, no, the S&P 500 will make up quite a significant amount of global equities.
23:42
So you kind of do not need to know what you're invested in.
23:46
And I don't know if this is a good
23:47
tip to give or not, but I'm going to tell you anyway.
23:49
I took my fact sheets, which don't have
23:52
any personal information on them, from my pension funds and from my stocks and shares ISA.
23:58
And I put
23:58
them into Claude and I said tell me where I'm invested because it's so much information and
24:02
it went through each of my different funds and investments in one place and said like okay you're
24:07
really exposed in this area you're not really exposed in this area it's the right risk level
24:10
for your age group that kind of thing and that's kind of how I started to work out like okay
24:14
I've already invested in the S&P 500s every time I see something online about S&P 500 I don't have
24:19
to feel FOMO because I've already got it in my global equities and it was quite helpful.
24:23
I think
24:24
And that's so good.
24:25
Anytime you feel overwhelmed with huge amounts of information.
24:29
Stunning thing about AI.
24:31
It really is.
24:32
Oh my God.
24:33
Do we want to say anything about the global financial crisis?
24:35
What was going on?
24:37
What I want to say is watch the big short.
24:39
Is that what it's called?
24:40
Because it was so good.
24:42
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:43
And I still find, maybe you can explain it better than me.
24:47
I still find the global financial crisis situation confusing.
24:51
but essentially before this time the housing market in the U.S. was booming you know every
24:56
Tom, Dick and Harry could buy a house they were going to give them money but then people started
25:00
defaulting on the loans the mortgage repayments right and then the banks didn't have enough money
25:06
but there was such a huge like butterfly effect from that because then like the Lehman Brothers
25:11
which was a huge bank at the time who'd been around for years and years and years suddenly
25:16
shut down and people panicked because essentially so much of what these crises come from is market
25:25
sentiment.
25:25
So if one person of power panics, everyone panics, everyone pulls their money out,
25:31
and the impact of the bubble bursting is because of people panicking.
25:35
Do you know what?
25:35
This is such an old example, but I think it is quite a good one.
25:40
You know when
25:40
you're trying to get the tube and you're not really in a hurry, but you see someone ahead
25:45
of you that starts sprinting, I fully start sprinting.
25:48
I fully sprint.
25:49
I'm like, I'm going
25:49
to miss it too.
25:50
And then I run and I'm like, what am I doing?
25:53
I did not need to do that.
25:55
Or if someone's panicking and trying to get out of an elevator, then you sort of panic and try
25:58
and get out of the elevator.
25:59
It's this sort of weird, oh, other people are doing it.
26:02
So maybe
26:03
I should be responding in the same way.
26:05
It's like a knee jerk panic reaction.
26:07
And it's almost like
26:08
that en masse.
26:09
So if you see, for example, one of the most reputable banks in America
26:13
essentially collapse not being able to repay people it's it's really like the sentiment
26:19
piece is essentially everyone just loses confidence yeah and then they all panic and
26:22
they all try run for the tube you know do you remember the silicon valley bank thing that
26:25
happened like yeah a year or two ago that was purely because they put out a statement i think
26:31
it was part of their like annual review or whatever that they were borrowing money i think
26:35
to pay down loans or something and the media circus around it was like oh my god this bank
26:41
is in financial crisis.
26:42
And so there was a run on the banks.
26:43
Everyone took their money out.
26:45
But it was purely because each person was panicking
26:47
and telling their friend.
26:48
And then their friend would panic
26:49
because the friend didn't want to lose out.
26:50
And it was unfounded because HSBC then bought them
26:54
and they're fine now.
26:55
But that was purely because of people
26:58
stressing each other out and all following each other.
27:01
It's hysteria.
27:02
Yeah.
27:02
The fourth year that the market ended down was 2008
27:05
and it was down 37%.
27:08
So a lot.
27:09
if you had invested a thousand pounds at the start of 2008 at the end of that year
27:16
can you do the math for me 63 pounds would be left not good no 63 pounds you put in 100
27:24
i said a thousand oh sorry 630 still yeah that's like almost half it sucks yeah you'd be panicking
27:32
but remember if you hadn't pulled that money out at that point in time you hadn't crystallized your
27:36
losses because if we then zoom out there was actually not another crash for another 10 years
27:43
so from that point there was no year that it finished down until 2018 that's so true that's
27:51
10 years that's insane and even in 2018 it wasn't that big of a crash yeah it was only down 4.4
27:58
okay so sorry we've done the global financial crisis which is the big short then the covid
28:04
crash which was 2020.
28:06
COVID crash was where we had the worst downfall ever.
28:10
34% of the stock market
28:12
the value was lost in 33 trading days.
28:15
So you might be listening to this and thinking okay right so
28:18
there was a huge crash because of COVID but there was no this wasn't one of the years that it
28:23
finished down because it rebounded before the end of the year.
28:26
Oh yes.
28:27
So this is something to think
28:28
about right like if you had panicked like everyone else and sold it actually didn't end up down at
28:35
the end that's a perfect example of timing the market if you try and time the market and you
28:38
happen to get it wrong by a couple of days within a year you really mess up also think about all the
28:44
absolute idiots that are running for the tube like yeah are you actually going to be making
28:49
decisions on really irrational behavior because that's kind of what's going on here people are
28:54
irrational because they freak out they make decisions and it has flow on effects and I think
29:00
obviously there's reasons for the stock market crashing in terms of not it's not just people
29:04
panicking but you know COVID everyone thought oh my god this virus this this is going to take over
29:12
the world no one knew what was going on yeah everyone panicked so you know if we look at 2020
29:19
obviously that was a scary time and actually a lot of professional investors look back at that
29:24
time and really regret that what the way that they handled it a lot of people openly talk about the
29:29
fact that they can't believe that they did what they did at that time because it was unprecedented
29:34
times even Victor openly about it.
29:36
If I had a dollar for every time I heard the word unprecedented in that year
29:39
oh I'd be a bloody millionaire.
29:40
Yeah me too.
29:41
The next big one the next big event was the inflation
29:46
kind of Ukraine crash in 2022.
29:49
So the curve at this point, this is at the start of this episode
29:52
when we were talking about how the market was down a lot and people weren't really wanting to
29:57
invest because it was down.
29:59
This is when we started talking more about personal finance
30:01
because everyone was panicking.
30:02
But it's so interesting because if we look at this, you know,
30:05
this big crash, obviously everyone was really worried and scared.
30:09
But I think what's quite
30:11
interesting is that at this time, people didn't really want to invest because the market was down.
30:16
the market right now is doing quite well people don't want to invest either you know it is
30:20
interesting so emotional whether it's down or up people will find a reason not to invest yeah or to
30:26
pull their money out i like this analogy about going shopping in a sale so thinking about
30:32
standing in waitrose you're buying your groceries minding your own business willing to pay full
30:36
price because you're already there and you need you know dinner for the evening and suddenly
30:42
there's an announcement over the loudspeaker and it says, everybody who's in the store right now,
30:47
we are dropping the prices by 30%.
30:49
And instead of thinking, oh, great, now I'm going to do my
30:52
month's worth of shopping today because it's 30% off, you drop your boss and you run out the store.
30:59
That's totally illogical.
31:01
And yet that's what seems to happen or the mindset people seem to have
31:04
when the stock market is down.
31:06
It's, oh my God, I need to get out of this.
31:07
Yeah.
31:08
And I think the next crash was actually, to be honest, the only time that I was investing actively and made a clever decision and did not run out of Waitrose.
31:20
Nice.
31:21
So this was Trump's liberation day.
31:23
This is when the tariffs were announced.
31:24
It was 2025.
31:25
It was around April, like the start of April.
31:28
To be honest, we'd been talking about it for a while.
31:30
We'd talked about it on the podcast.
31:31
You know, it was everywhere.
31:33
There was one of the biggest drops.
31:34
In two days, it went down 11% or something.
31:38
It was huge.
31:39
It was a massive drop in a really short space of time.
31:41
And I actually checked before we recorded this podcast.
31:43
I went onto my trading account to see what I did on that day.
31:46
so on the 4th of April 2025 when this was happening I made 39 investments on that day
31:57
what I did you do any work on that day by the way we literally just on your phone like
32:01
it was a Friday and it was after work and I finished work and it was all happening was
32:05
kicking off and I could hear I was actually at a dinner party and I excused myself and I sat in
32:09
the corner and started trading like an absolute finance bro but there's so many things I want to
32:16
briefness with telling the story because I think what it's doing is kind of glorifying the idea of
32:20
buying the market and the whole point of this is actually not to do that but just to reinforce the
32:25
idea of not doing the waitrose drop the basket and run out this was the first crash that I had
32:31
kind of lived through it was my first experience of okay oh my god it's down it's down it's down
32:37
I've heard about this a lot and rather than panicking and selling I did the opposite and I
32:42
I was like, come on, this is my moment.
32:45
Time to go shopping.
32:45
Here I go.
32:46
I'm going shopping.
32:47
And I bought, I was looking through my trading,
32:50
it was so funny because it's like I bought about 15 things
32:54
and then I panicked and I cancelled it all.
32:57
And then I bought it again and I cancelled it
32:59
because it was just the psychology around,
33:01
am I having a shock of buying when it's going down?
33:04
Yeah.
33:04
And it's so interesting because I'd learnt and learnt and learnt
33:07
and finally I had my Waitrose on sale moment and I bought,
33:11
but it was almost like I ran out
33:12
I came back in
33:13
I ran out
33:14
I came back in
33:15
you have this like voice in your head
33:17
on the one side
33:17
and then like your natural instinct on the other
33:20
because it is
33:21
it seems counterintuitive
33:22
it does
33:22
it seems totally counterintuitive
33:23
it's like someone saying
33:24
jump off the cliff
33:25
I promise you'll be fine
33:26
you don't need to be attached to a bungee jump
33:28
and you're like
33:29
but this is so stupid
33:30
because I can see the bottom of the cliff
33:32
and I think this is really dangerous
33:33
it's so scary
33:34
but you know you have to jump off
33:36
so anyway
33:37
I invested
33:37
I was going through all the things that I invested in
33:40
I did a whole lot of stock picks because we talked about a whole lot of stocks in the
33:44
investing club at the time.
33:45
And they were all things that I'd kept an eye on that I wanted to buy.
33:48
And I was kind of, I basically had money earmarked to invest.
33:53
But massive disclaimer, I put my emergency fund in.
33:57
Yikes.
33:58
Idiot.
33:59
Idiot.
34:00
Not the thing to do.
34:00
It was about 5,700 USD.
34:05
So not clever.
34:06
Not clever.
34:06
I think that's why I was even more panicky and kept selling, buying, selling, buying.
34:10
So yeah, it dropped like 10% to 11% in two days.
34:14
And then it almost came back optional.
34:15
So I mean, I made basically around $1,700 USD in a very short space of time.
34:23
So obviously...
34:24
Did you realize that gain?
34:26
I.e.
34:26
did you crystallize?
34:27
No, I left it.
34:28
Yeah, I didn't pull it out.
34:30
So it wasn't as though I was trying to trade.
34:32
It was more I just saw the opportunity of the market down and best.
34:35
But the reason I wanted to tell that story is not to say try and time the market
34:39
because it is quite literally the opposite of what we are trying to explain by showing these
34:43
crashes and what's happened over the last 30 years.
34:47
But I just wanted to share that to say
34:49
I wholeheartedly was terrified investing and I knew it.
34:52
I knew in my heart that it was the clever
34:54
thing to do.
34:55
I knew all the facts, but it is really scary to go against the grain.
35:01
And this
35:02
quote that honestly, I remember we made these finance books like five years ago and we had all
35:07
these quotes through it and they were Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch and all the you know
35:11
old famous men investors and one of the quotes is buy when there's blood on the streets yeah
35:16
and then the other one was invest when others know be greedy when others are fearful and fearful
35:22
when others are greedy and both of those quotes never meant anything to me but if I was to then
35:29
almost use those quotes and compare it with what was happening in this the most recent crash which
35:33
is 2025 liberation day so on that day there was hypothetically blood everywhere yeah it was down
35:41
10 to 11 there was red and the reason they say blood is because it's red you're in the red
35:45
blood everywhere it's red red red that's when you buy and then the idea of you know when others are
35:52
fearful be greedy everyone was scared and i was greedy i was sitting in the corner of a bloody
35:58
dinner party buying stocks absolutely inhaling being the greediest person alive
36:03
hooning as the keywords like to say exactly i was hooning i was hooning apple i was hooning
36:08
nvidia yeah you've got some really like cool sexy stocks in here anyway that was my sort of like
36:13
little story i thought was quite worth adding because if we do see another big crash blip
36:20
whatever we're going to call it and let's say there is you know three years of it going down
36:25
and down and down or five years or one or whatever this is what we talk about with dollar cost
36:31
averaging you invest when it's down you don't stop and you invest when it's up you continue to invest
36:37
because like we've said in the last 30 years on average you would have made 10 percent per year
36:43
that's not saying every year you would have made 10 you would have said over that period of time
36:46
every year on average you would have made 10 so what's the point in trying to outsmart the market
36:51
Just stick with the plan, which is to be boring, to be consistent, and to keep investing.
36:57
And this is why I think that sometimes that's why things like a pension, and I want to tell
37:02
you guys an exciting story about my pension in a minute.
37:04
But when you think about a pension, it's actually such an ideal way to make you not make these
37:11
fearful decisions.
37:14
Because number one, you think of it as monopoly money because it's for when you're 57 years
37:18
old.
37:18
So it's ages away.
37:20
and number two it's behind a barrier you actually can't access it to make the decision and remember
37:24
we were talking about earlier before we were recording about how you almost want to tell
37:29
people you think the worst thing you could do in these situations is to you think the worst thing
37:35
is to not do anything sorry but actually it's the best thing you can do and with your pension
37:39
there's nothing you can do so you just got to carry on living i think that this point is worth
37:44
stopping on because when there is a crisis and I don't just mean in the stock market I mean
37:51
in life your personal life anything is a disaster we all go into crisis management mode it's there's
37:57
a disaster what do I do and you feel better doing something you know if something horrible has
38:04
happened to somebody even if all you can do is drop off flowers you want to take action yeah so
38:10
it's the same thing it's you're buying yourself flowers basically yeah but you think you are yeah
38:15
you think you're buying yourself flowers you're actually missing out on this enormous discount
38:21
of all of these you're actually you're at columbia road at 4 p.m oh my god you know they're clearing
38:27
them out all the best peonies and sunflowers yeah two pounds two pounds they're on sale and
38:33
And yeah, and I think so it's more the idea of what is instinctual is to take an action.
38:40
No, no, no.
38:41
Sit there and be lazy.
38:42
If you could be on a desert island and not know any of the stuff happening, you would
38:46
leave it there.
38:46
I don't know if this is something that will probably make my parents cringe a lot, but
38:50
I don't really look at the news that much.
38:53
And it's kind of served me really well when it comes to investing because I don't know
38:57
when their crash is happening.
38:58
I just carry on with my life.
39:00
And it's actually been a blessing because it means I never feel conflicted about whether
39:03
or not I should be taking my money out because I don't know about it.
39:06
Well, that's kind of why with the Curve Weekly, we're not updating people every day because
39:10
we're not trying to encourage people to do anything about it.
39:13
We're just trying to educate them on what is happening in the market.
39:17
But by the time the episode comes out, you know, two days later, it's an update.
39:20
Yeah.
39:21
And it's like to feel like you can be informed, but it's not just information coming in and
39:25
then cool, do something.
39:27
Yes.
39:28
Because I think there's a difference between being disconnected.
39:30
Like I was completely disconnected for a really long time.
39:32
I knew nothing about that.
39:33
I mean, to be fair, I still don't really.
39:35
The only news I get is the Kibwe.
39:37
No, literally me too.
39:38
But I like it that way because it's not.
39:41
It's not exactly in the moment.
39:42
You're not reading some hypersensationalized article that's telling you to do something crazy.
39:48
It's very measured.
39:49
And I always just think you guys love Warren Buffett so much and so do I in terms of his mindset and investment strategy that you're never going to say something that is going to invoke that fear.
40:00
No, if anything, it's the opposite.
40:02
Yeah.
40:02
It's remember.
40:03
We are on S-A-L-E, everyone.
40:06
Yes.
40:06
Sorry, I had to spell that in my head.
40:07
That's so embarrassing.
40:08
No, it's right.
40:09
It sounded like I was doing a swear word.
40:11
It's like you could just say sale.
40:13
I don't know if you thought this was a bad analogy earlier, and you may have, but I'm just going to repeat it anyway.
40:17
Did I say this one that you're about to say?
40:19
No, but you had a different swing on it.
40:20
Okay.
40:21
But essentially, this is what I think about people looking at their investments when the stock market's crashing because it feels awful.
40:27
I would just say don't look at them.
40:29
it's kind of the same as like if you buy something one week and the next week that item goes on sale
40:34
you don't go into that shop and like go and look at the product that you'd already bought at the
40:39
full price and commiserate over it you walk you walk into the shop and you think great this is an
40:44
opportunity for me to buy all the other stuff that they were on sale did i forget to say that yeah
40:49
yeah yeah oh sorry because i would commiserate if all i knew is that one item was on sale and i
40:54
bought it at full price i probably would go in and commiserate but you're saying the whole store
40:58
goes on sale so you go in and you're thinking it's more of an opportunity it's an opportunity
41:01
it's like yeah it's a bummer you bought that thing and this is a situation where you can't
41:06
return it and then buy it at the sale price just because that was what so suggested just think
41:11
hypothetically you can't return the thing that you've already bought it was like a pair of
41:14
underwear or something like you're not getting over it you've worn it yeah you've worn it like
41:18
you've sweated in it the party's over you go in there and you think great this is an opportunity
41:23
for me to shop you don't think let me go and stare at the item that I bought on full price
41:29
which is what you're doing when you're looking at your stocks and shares
41:32
ISA or your investments which are rapidly crashing I much preferred it the second time
41:38
round I loved it yeah I really that was the reaction I was hoping for the first time was
41:42
crickets and she was like well probably what I would do is just take it back and then buy it
41:46
again at the sale price I was like you're missing the point please don't be so practical yeah can
41:50
you get on board the metaphor.
41:52
Okay.
41:53
So let's talk about your pension.
41:54
Okay.
41:54
This is like one
41:55
of the most exciting things that's ever happened to me.
41:58
When I started working in 2015 and unbeknownst
42:02
to me, kind of embarrassingly, I started investing from my first day of work.
42:07
So I was invested in
42:08
my pension and I didn't realize at the time that that is investing.
42:12
And the pension contributions
42:14
that I was making was going into what was called a passive sustainable global equity plan.
42:19
So global
42:20
equities, meaning equities from around the world, equities meaning the same as stocks and shares.
42:25
So
42:25
pieces of little companies all around the world.
42:28
And so I worked at this company from 2015 to 2021.
42:32
And mind you, during that time, there were a couple of crises, things like COVID, etc.
42:36
But I
42:37
continued to invest.
42:39
And I actually think at one point, our company was matching us one and a half
42:42
times.
42:42
So I'd put in 8% and they'd put in 12, which was insane.
42:46
But I think during COVID,
42:47
they stopped putting in they said we'll just match you up to what you're putting in which the maximum
42:52
was eight which is totally fair so there was like a little bit of a reduction but the point is from
42:56
2015 to 2021 i consistently invested i didn't look at what was going on in the stock market and think
43:01
okay i'm going to pull back on my pension my pension was the same every single month and when
43:05
i got to the end of those six years i had put in 48 000 pounds and that investment was worth 60
43:11
thousand pounds so i've made 12 12k in in six years okay that's so good point is from 2015 to
43:19
now we've had covid we've had the ukraine war and we've had the trump tariff so three of those five
43:25
big events have happened while i've been invested in this fund and this fund that i put 48 000
43:31
pounds into is now worth 115 000 pounds okay so it's worth more than double what i put into it
43:38
which is just insane.
43:41
That is unbelievable.
43:41
It's so good.
43:43
And like other things happened during that time too,
43:45
like Brexit, there was the US-China trade war,
43:47
there was COVID, Russia invaded Ukraine, all this stuff.
43:51
But I just left the money in there.
43:53
And probably during that time,
43:54
and definitely during that time,
43:55
you know, I left the company and it was worth 60,000,
43:57
but probably when those things happened,
43:59
it dropped down to 55.
44:00
Maybe it dropped even below the 48 that I'd put in,
44:03
but I never looked at it because why would you?
44:06
And now it's worth $115,000.
44:08
But disclaimer, I do want to say is that between now and me taking that money out at the age of 57, it could go down again.
44:15
But we're just hoping that it continues to go.
44:17
It will go like this, but it will go up and to the right, you know?
44:20
So 57.
44:20
I mean, can you imagine if that amount, I mean, absolutely wild if you then projected that another 30 years.
44:29
And the compounding, I heard this the other day, the compounding, you start investing in your 20s.
44:34
your biggest compounding gains happen between the age of 50 and 60 so the gains that i've had now
44:39
are actually small fry compared to how that's going to continue to it's like a snowball it
44:43
really is a snowball it's just insane there's this really amazing sort of hockey stick yes that's
44:48
what it is yeah i'm going to put on the screen i know a lot of people will only be listening but
44:52
if you can look we'll put on the screen it basically shows if you'd invested a certain
44:58
amount how much i had grown over time we'll basically we'll put the stats on the screen
45:02
so you can see but it looks like a hockey stick so it's like the the the blue at the bottom is
45:07
what you've actually invested and then the green goes as like this exponential and it just goes
45:12
like it starts at a slow grow and then it's like whoa and it basically god i can't wait for that
45:16
the longer that you leave it in the bigger that hockey stick so it's almost like the more that
45:21
you leave it the bigger it gets and i remember in one of our first few episodes vick was trying
45:24
to be like so if one pound it'll then go to one pound and i was like nah it's just like so not
45:29
landing but as soon as you see a visual like that it is so motivating you just think cool actually
45:34
this is the easiest thing ever all I have to do is leave it and do nothing yeah and it's so
45:38
frustrating but I feel like people try and over complicate it for what reason I don't know but
45:43
it's actually so simple it's set and forget that is what it is and if I've made 60k in the last
45:50
five years of leaving it alone and the hockey stick thing prevails which it will I wonder what
45:56
I'm going to get in the next five years like I can't wait to see I can't wait for you to take
46:01
me out for a drink oh my god I'll take you out for a drink honey yeah well I mean maybe we could
46:05
go on some kind of cute little like a little vacay yeah I'd love that it'd be so fun yeah
46:09
I've loved this conversation I was weirdly quite exhausted before going into this and I feel now
46:14
just absolutely bouncing with energy I love it so much fun I think yeah for anyone that is sitting
46:21
there thinking oh my actual god all i can hear is people saying oh we're gonna hear a crash or
46:27
just be like don't mind don't mind if there's a crash and the younger you are the better because
46:32
like if the stock market goes on sale now and you're only going to use that money in 10 years
46:35
time rather buy cheap buy low yeah you're in more sales exactly yeah think of the positives
46:41
and maybe i don't know maybe there needs to be some sort of mantra that we give people that
46:44
whether it's trying about this we were sort of thinking it'd be quite good to have something
46:48
you say to yourself if you're investing to be honest if you have an auto invest so it's just
46:52
doing it automatically it's really the best thing ever because then you don't have that psychological
46:57
oh I'm scared about investing like what I did with that huge investment at one time
47:01
if it's automatic you don't have to but like your pension for instance which is automatic yeah but
47:05
if you need a mantra for that investing piece let's say you have an extra thousand pounds sitting
47:11
in account and the stock market goes on sale and you decide I actually really don't need that for
47:14
a really really long time i'll invest it but you're feeling scared you almost need a something
47:20
and then it's vice versa if you're feeling tempted to make a decision turn off your notifications
47:25
yeah do not look at the news on purpose block out as much noise as you can know your psyche and that
47:30
you're a bit scared and nervous and you want to sell and just ignore yeah pretend it's not happening
47:35
the thing you can do though if you have that thousand pounds and the stock market goes on sale
47:40
What we've spoken about here is dollar cost averaging.
47:43
Yes, potentially, if you tried to put that thousand pounds in when the stock market went on sale, you could make huge gains like Soph illustrated.
47:50
But you could also make really good gains if you put 200 pounds in per month.
47:55
And that might feel a little less scary because you aren't betting it all on, you know, on one go.
47:59
I think that's actually that's so true because that was one of the things that I thought was, well, what if it goes down further?
48:05
What if it goes down another 10% and I've put all of it in one go?
48:08
And now you have hindsight, right?
48:10
So you look in that situation and you're like, oh, wow, that was like, you know, I just threw out the money.
48:14
But at that time, you didn't know if the stock market was going to get worse.
48:17
And that is flipping terrifying.
48:18
You are standing on a ledge and it's like you don't know what's going to happen.
48:21
No, and it genuinely could have gone down another 40%, 100%.
48:23
It could have gone down so much more.
48:26
And that was one of the things I thought I remember at the time being like, is it going to go down more?
48:29
Is it going to go down more?
48:30
Should I be putting it in there?
48:31
Like I remember being a bit like, because you just never know.
48:34
So that's a really good thing.
48:35
if you in fact I probably should have done that over that week gone and you know put certain
48:39
amounts in but and I also think like if you feel FOMO if you feel that like feeling of FOMO stop
48:44
yourself I almost think that's what you need to do it's like if you feel FOMO stop stop and think
48:49
because that is when you make an irrational decision and you sell or you know you talk to
48:54
someone who's a really good salesperson and I actually this happened to me recently when I was
49:00
I went out for dinner with one of my friends and he's made some really good trades like day trading
49:06
and I dangerous stuff oh my god he spoke and he's so like he's such a good orator and like he's
49:12
financially literate and he's also an accountant he knows what he's doing and I went home from
49:15
this thing and I was like I am about to make some cash and I for some reason decided to go on Claude
49:21
and say my friend's doing this like and Claude was like girl you're not into gambling that is
49:26
not for you yes thank you so much for knowing me so well but honestly I was because it like knows
49:31
my whole Martha mindset so well.
49:33
It was kind of like,
49:34
this is so not in keeping
49:36
with what you literally tell people
49:38
every single day
49:38
and how you naturally think.
49:40
And I thought to myself,
49:41
that's so true.
49:42
What I'd cultivated within myself
49:43
was total FOMO.
49:45
And I was feeling so fearful
49:46
and missing out on these massive gains
49:47
that he was making on like Planeteer
49:49
and all these like AI companies.
49:52
And then, you know,
49:53
I slept on it,
49:53
woke up the next morning.
49:54
I was like, hang on a minute.
49:55
That's so not me.
49:55
I'm not doing that.
49:56
It's God, it's so hard to do
49:58
to not get FOMO,
49:59
but it is just such good advice.
50:01
I think, you know, in the same way for me, it's almost like I have to block out that chat with people.
50:06
Totally.
50:06
In the same way some people need to block out the news.
50:08
The news doesn't freak me out.
50:09
But when people start talking about their amazing investments that they've made, it's –
50:13
Yeah, you're like, okay, this is get rich quick.
50:14
I get make me a millionaire overnight.
50:17
Thank you so much.
50:18
Thank you so much, sir.
50:19
I will be following your hot tip.
50:20
Yeah.
50:21
I know you're a taxi driver, but I'm going to be investing in the same way as you.
50:24
Like, no.
50:24
Oh, yeah.
50:24
Isn't there something like – isn't there something that Warren Buffett also says – or I'm not sure if it was Warren Buffett,
50:28
but someone said what if if the taxi drivers and i heard this on your podcast obviously this is like
50:33
where i get all my financial information but it was something like once if if the taxi driver's
50:38
talking about it being a good deal it's too late well it's because everyone's put their money in
50:41
so there's no more money to go in to then bring it up again you know yeah so like if you're at
50:46
the ceiling exactly there's literally no more money to go in which is why with the spacex and
50:51
the anthropic ipos everyone was kind of like where is this money going to come from because there's
50:57
not that much leftover capital to go back in people are going to have to pull their investments
51:01
out by other places to put them in this so it's more the idea of if yeah I mean I was the last
51:07
person to hear about crypto in 2017 and and the idea of if I bought it that time it's because
51:11
the fact that I'd heard about it yeah there was no one else to put money in to make the price go up
51:16
you know I actually had this situation of I was thinking about the SpaceX and all the IPOs and
51:20
again feeling FOMO and being like oh my god should I invest but I actually reminded myself that I
51:25
invested in the Deliveroo IPO.
51:27
So I got an email.
51:28
I don't know if it's because one of their best
51:30
customers, I don't know what happened, but I got an email from the founder saying, we are about to
51:36
IPO.
51:38
Do you want in?
51:40
And I said, thank you very much.
51:41
Bumble had just IPO'd and done really well.
51:46
And I remember there was so much stuff about Whitney Wilford becoming a billionaire overnight
51:49
and all this stuff.
51:50
And I was like, oh my God, it's all about apps.
51:53
And Deliveroo is an app,
51:54
Bumble's an app
51:55
did not do any research
51:57
did not read
51:57
a single thing
51:58
and I thought
51:59
you thought the founder
52:00
emailed you
52:01
yeah yeah yeah
52:01
you were like
52:02
oh Cameron
52:02
I've been chosen
52:03
oh hi Cameron
52:04
thank you for picking me
52:05
I am
52:06
yeah I'm an angel investor
52:08
and he wants me
52:10
and at the time
52:11
I put in a thousand pounds
52:14
and for me
52:14
that was like
52:14
a lot of money
52:15
you were an angel investor
52:16
I mean a thousand's
52:17
still nothing
52:17
yeah
52:18
so I put a thousand pounds in
52:19
and on the day
52:21
it went down
52:22
so like
52:22
I put my money in
52:23
thinking I'm going to be
52:23
like Whitney Will heard by the end of the day no sirree my money was down and I was like messaging
52:30
my dad being like should I take this money out and he was like no just think about it like you're
52:33
paying your school fees you're learning a lesson so anyway I put my thousand pounds in a few years
52:38
later Deliveroo then gets bought by Getia or something like one of the big conglomerates but
52:44
basically Deliveroo was loss making and they never kind of got out of that loss making mindset
52:48
or loss making situation.
52:50
DoorDash?
52:51
DoorDash.
52:52
Sorry.
52:52
Yeah.
52:52
Sorry.
52:52
Delivery got bought by DoorDash.
52:54
Did you just Google that?
52:55
Yeah.
52:55
Nearly 3 billion.
52:57
Huge.
52:57
Oh shit.
52:57
They paid 3 billion.
52:58
Yeah.
52:59
But.
53:00
How much did you get as an angel investor?
53:02
350 pounds.
53:03
Wait.
53:03
So you went up from 1,000 to 1,350.
53:06
No doll.
53:07
I went from 1,000 pounds in to 350 out.
53:11
I lost 650 pounds.
53:13
No doll.
53:15
And you didn't even have a choice.
53:17
It wasn't like.
53:17
it wasn't like we're going to roll you up into the door dash shares it was like
53:21
they had my bank details and they just sent me the money back one day
53:25
so yeah you're like if I was a horde gone for dear life I was yeah
53:29
oh I was like I'm here for the long haul I'm Warren Buffett but good on you
53:34
and they were like we don't need you anymore we literally just got three billion from these guys
53:39
you're out you're like but I'm still buying burgers every Sunday like I'm the biggest
53:43
I'm surprised to say I deleted that app from my phone.
53:45
No, I think that one's in the trash.
53:48
Loved this episode.
53:49
Hopefully people are feeling a little bit more excited
53:52
about what the next 10 years of the stock market will look like.
53:55
And no doubt there's going to be a few blips, crashes,
53:58
whatever we're calling them these days,
53:59
but that's the whole point.
54:01
There's going to be, try really hard to remember
54:04
this is all part of investing.
54:06
And if we were in a situation where the stock market went to zero,
54:10
we would be, and I've heard this quite a lot of times,
54:12
so I'm not taking credit for this,
54:13
But we would basically be in such an apocalyptic situation that your money in the stock market would be the last thing you'd be thinking about.
54:19
You'd be thinking about like, how do I get my next meal?
54:21
The world would be in dire straits.
54:24
I mean, can you tie a knot?
54:25
Do you know how to follow your nose like you're orienteering to the nearest water?
54:31
Your money is going to be worthless because money is not the only thing that we need.
54:34
We're going to need God knows what.
54:36
Yeah.
54:36
It's such a weird thing to think about, but it is true.
54:39
at that point
54:40
that we are trying
54:41
to get on the next spaceship
54:42
to a random
54:43
oh literally yes
54:44
you know it is
54:44
we're getting on the SpaceX
54:45
trip to Mars
54:46
yeah yeah
54:47
we want to help
54:48
Elon Musk
54:49
get to his target
54:50
yeah he's getting
54:50
sorry he's getting his target
54:51
so that there's a million people
54:52
on Mars
54:52
so he causes an apocalypse
54:53
on the world
54:54
and then we all have to get
54:55
on the SpaceX
54:57
spaceship
54:57
off to Mars
54:58
yeah
54:58
yeah yeah yeah
54:59
no
55:00
um okay
55:01
stunning episode
55:02
loved it
55:04
for anyone that wants
55:05
to follow you Fran
55:06
where can they find you
55:07
and what are all of your
55:09
her platforms and content is amazing so my name is Martha Steuish on basically all socials and
55:16
then I also have a sub stack which is called uncompromising curation and I actually think
55:20
that is like a window into my soul and how my mind thinks and I also just love sub stack it's
55:25
long form content it's writing it's beautiful it's thought pieces so if you are interested in
55:31
like learning more and not just watching videos then I would suggest going to sub stack but I'm
55:36
Also on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok.
55:40
All right, everyone.
55:41
Have a great week.
55:42
Thanks, guys.
55:43
Bye.
55:44
Bye.
55:45
Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curb.
55:47
These conversations are designed to teach you everything you need to know
55:50
to be better with your money, from saving to investing
55:52
to talking with your friends about your salaries, all of that stuff.
55:55
And if you like what you heard, we would love if you could please hit subscribe
55:58
wherever you're listening and leave a comment.
56:00
Let us know what you thought about the episode.
56:02
And it only takes one second, and it would really make our week,
56:05
our month, our year.
56:06
Yeah.
56:06
Yeah.
56:07
So please do it.
56:08
Okay.
56:08
Love you.
56:09
Bye.
56:12
Okay, quickly, the curve was created to empower and educate you about investing,
56:16
but we are not financial advisors.
56:18
Our platform exists for educational purposes only,
56:20
and it doesn't provide personalized investing advice for your individual needs and should
56:24
not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
56:28
And always remember to
56:29
do your own research before making any investment or financial decision.
56:32
We're here for any knowledge
56:33
and support you need.
56:34
But the final call is always yours.
56:36
And thanks for being here.
56:38
You got this.
56:38
Yeah, we know you got this.