Latest / Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar / 8/14/26: Karoline Leavitt Quits After Decoy Plane Fiasco, Scott Jennings Meltdown, AI Math Breakthroughs, American Doctor Doc

Transcript

8/14/26: Karoline Leavitt Quits After Decoy Plane Fiasco, Scott Jennings Meltdown, AI Math Breakthroughs, American Doctor Doc · Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
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• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Good morning everyone, It's Friday. Here at Breaking Points. We
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: got Crystal, Ryan and Emily. Hows everybody doing today? So far,
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: so good, incredible, It's good. I'm happy to be back.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: I suffered a severe concussion two weeks ago, and now
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: I am returning to the show much like one of
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: our favorite senators with a pro Israel perspective. Hit my
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: head hard enough for that one, so I'll be fact
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: checking drop site news zdo. But we got a big
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: but we got a big, big show this morning. As always,
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: We've got some Iran updates. The CIA is saying that
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: Trump was in the catering cart due to Israeli intelligence.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: We've also got Hassan potentially filing a lawsuit against one
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: Scott Jennings. And we have a mathematician from the University
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: of Toronto joining the show to discuss artificial intelligence and
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: its effects on long unsolved math problems. Crystal is really
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: interested in that one, and we're gonna learn more about that.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: And finally, we have a documentary.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Deeply interested in long unsolved math problems. Yes, what I
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: do in my spare time just long and solved math problems.
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: And women can do that. Just so everyone knows theoretical
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: and I think I think it's beautiful.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Appreciate your supporting theoretically and Larry Summers for more.
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: That's a deep cut.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: All right, big energy this morning, and we're going to
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: cap it all off with an interview with the documentary
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: director of American Doctor, who has a documentary that is
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: in Sundance in the South by Southwest that is documenting
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: the experience of American doctors who went into Gaza during
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: the genocide. All that and more here on Breaking Points Fridays.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: But first let's do some Iran war updates. Now everyone
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: knows we covered Trump with a little bit of a
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: decoy plane earlier this week, But now CIA is telling
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: their colleagues at the Washington Post that it was Israeli
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: intelligence that put him in the box. I'll just read
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: a little bit here. US intelligence officials were skeptical of
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: an irunting assassination threat against President Donald Trump that was
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: were laid by Israel and prompted an extraordinary clandestine maneuver,
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: that's some secretly flight of Turkey in an alternate military aircraft.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: The assassination that was relayed by the Israeli government to
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: the CIA, where analysts did not view the intelligence as
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: compelling and conveyed that skepticism to Trump administration officials. Another
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: official called the reports of threats against Trump's lives Israeli derived,
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: not US generated, and viewed as low confidence. What do
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: we make of that, folks, I mean.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Not a surprise. And they you know, Trump reportedly part
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: of his mentality starting this war was fear over alleged
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Iranian assassination attempts on his life. So Israel going back
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: to that well, and it also reminds very much of
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: the fake intel regarding the Iranian nuclear program that they
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: fed to Trump also to persuade him, helped persuade him
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: to jump into this war intel that was contradicted by
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: our own intel communities. So apparently he is still taking
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: very seriously what the Israelis have to say. And then
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: the other part of the just thrount there is like,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: isn't this creating kind of a crazy incentive for the
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Israelies with regard to Trump's life, since he's said, you know,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: if anything happens to me, then we're going to like
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: completely decimate Iran or whatever. So I don't know, there's
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: some there's some weird incentives being created here. I would
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: say from our great ally in the Middle East.
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: That was not the most well thought out threat that
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: he made there. I think the extra layer on top
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: of this is Turkey. So you know, Israel has been
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: saying that they're already pivoting to their coming war with
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: their new great Satan, which is Turkey. And Trump was
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: not just in Turkey, but he was in Onkara, which
• 4:41
  Speaker 5: is you know, it's one thing to fly at Istanbul.
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: You got half the city's Europe, half the city's Asia.
• 4:47
  Speaker 6: You're right there.
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: You can see the Mediterranean off in the distance on
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: Cara hour to flight deeper into Turkey. For an American
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: who is already paranoid, you know, getting closer to Syria
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: and Iran and Iraq is going to heighten their cortisol
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: and so he was at a particularly vulnerable moment. And
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: so I think what they also want is Trump to think, oh,
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: I'm not even safe in Turkey. Maybe Israel's right that
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: the Turks aren't willing to protect me, and maybe I
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: need to give some more credence to this hostility that
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: they have towards Turkey. I don't think that will work,
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: but I think that the fact that it was in
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: Turkey played a significant part in why they wanted to
• 5:32
  Speaker 5: pull the trigger.
• 5:33
  Speaker 6: At this exact moment, I.
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: Said to someone right away, I was talking to someone
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: about this, and I bet this is really intelligence. And
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: the reason I thought it was is really intelligence is
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: actually because the big scandal of them not moving press
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: secretary reporters off the plane, and it's actually coming together
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: in a way that I think makes a lot of sense,
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: which is that Secret Service is under an enormous amount
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: of pressure for so many misses and near misses that
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: they just say, listen, we got this intelligence that the
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: CIA is telling us is low confidence. We don't think
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: that it's real. We don't believe it, but we are
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: going to just deal with the president and we can
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: kind of cross that T and dot that I. But
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: we don't think anything's actually going to happen, So we
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: will continue flying the plane that we are told might
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: get hit by a what ground to air missile. That's
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: the intelligence was that somebody might launch a missile at
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: the plane. But I think they didn't really believe it.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: They just didn't want to take a chance with the president.
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: They wanted to be able to tell him if the
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: question was raised, if these reelies perhaps raised it with him.
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: And so it actually all makes much more sense now
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: that we have this little piece of the puzzle. It
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: comes into.
• 6:42
  Speaker 6: Place curious families take on this.
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: Does it look like Caroline Levitt quit when the plane landed?
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: No?
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Harp, Natalie Harp got onto.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: Her.
• 7:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah, no, I can say.
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: I can say it was kind of a fear among
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: people in Trump world that after Carolyn had her second baby,
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: that there had just been a lot of indications that
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: she wasn't gonna last long, that she would come back
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: and probably not stay in the job for very long
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: because she doesn't want to.
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: It's not a last straw to be used as a
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: as a decoy in assassination someone. It wasn't real, but
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: like in his in Trump's mind, he thought it was
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: real enough.
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: I guess, I don't know.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: It would be a pretty good reason to quit your
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: loss was like if you go down in flames, whatever,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: this lady, she's coming with me, And who's the other
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: way he took? What do you take? Sup E?
• 7:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: With you?
• 7:47
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Really is that right?
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: That's why again I think it was like they're just crossing.
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: If you if you're weighing when you're gonna quit, how
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: long you're gonna stay, you know, if you're Carolyn Levitt
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: at that point, Like, you know what, Yeah, I think
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: I think I'm good.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: I think now you know, I'm going to be home
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: with the baby. That sounds like a better use of
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: my time at this point versus this man that I
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: do everything for and literally was willing to casually risk
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: my life and not even tell me about it.
• 8:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, because they could also just have the plane sit there,
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: Like if you took this threat seriously, the plane could
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: just sit there on the ground until Trump landed, and
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: then you can it's only five six hours and you
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: can announce, Hey, Trump landed, he's back, and he's back
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: in Washington.
• 8:31
  Speaker 6: So then they wouldn't shoot down the plane.
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: I also want to say, I think the Israelis leaked
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: this to the press as well, and then the CIA
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: leaked their side of it. But I think the Israelis
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: leaked it to the press to make it seem to
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: gin up the threats to Trump's life and to put
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: him under even more pressure. Like I think that's how
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: it got into the media because it's been what there's
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: been like a separated of gap three weeks.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense because there wouldn't be a whole
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: lot of other people who knew about what was going on.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: It would be very close knit circle. So I was
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: wondering about that who leaked it as well. So anyway,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: very interesting. Let's go on gribin to some of these
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: other things that are going on, including we've all been
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: watching what's going to happen with the oil markets, but
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: the China thing up on the screen, because this is
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: actually really significant. You know, when the straightform news was
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: first closed or mostly closed. There were a lot of
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: oil analysts who were like, this is going to be
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: really bad, really fast, and then it wasn't great. But
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: it hasn't been total and complete catastrophe, and in fact,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Trump seems to think he can kind of like muddle
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: through and ride this out. One of the reasons why
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: it has not been as catastrophic as quickly as anticipated
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: is because China significantly reduced their imports of oil, so
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: that took a lot of strain off the market. And
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: nobody knows, you know, what they're doing exactly, or how
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: long they intend to do it, what tactics they're using.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: There are now indications that they are starting to more
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: heavily re engage in the market and increase their imports, again,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: putting additional stress on the oil markets, and you know,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: shortening that timeline until there is some sort of truly
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: catastrophic potential break.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: And we've also been tracking not only just the oil
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: but the sailors. You know, we apologies, I think we
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: said soldiers in a title, but their sailors and they've
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: been suffering on the ships here and Jim Acosta actually
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: just shared something that he says is a text from
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: a mother who is on not the Abraham, but the
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: USS Tripoli that apparently also is experiencing poor living conditions.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: This text reads, he lost over thirty pounds in just
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: four months. He is afraid to reveal the exact number
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: he lost. He doesn't want to worry us, but I
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: will confirm with you they were one hundred percent silenced.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: They weren't allowed to speak negatively about these ships or
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: the leadership command that included low food and hygiene supplies.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: My son did have to talk to someone on his
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: ship and talk them out of suicide.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: And then now, oh, go ahead, gricol.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, sent com Hag said. They're
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: coming out and saying like, oh no, this is all
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: fake news. This isn't happening. They're all great, they're all fine.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Someone just fell overboard and was retrieved in is By
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: and nobody's trying to Yeah's no, one's trying to off
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: themselves here.
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: And the latest on this is that apparently what they're
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: doing is sending the USS George Washington to replace the
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: USS Abraham Lincoln that's an air aircraft carrier as well.
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: The report here is that it deported a part in
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: departed a port in Vietnam last week and was spotted
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: crossing the Strait of Malaca on Thursday, So en Root,
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: it would appear this is from the Wall Street Journal
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: is reporting this, so maybe some relief coming soon for
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: the sailors.
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: And on on Chrystal's point about the oil, did you
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: guys notice that the US and jd Vance in particular
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: called Zelansky told him you have to stop attacking this
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: Russian port on the black side.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Oll I missed that. Uh, that's significant.
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: It was wild because it was this is Kazakhstan oil
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: that is getting piped to a Russian port and then
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: gets shipped off to Europe, and Ukraine was just hitting
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: the port and hitting the ships going in and out
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: of the port, and jade Vance called was like, guys,
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: this isn't even Russian oil. Like it's yes, it's a
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: Russian port, but like what like what are you? What
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: are you doing to us? So he so since since
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: then they have not hit that port, and they have
• 12:26
  Speaker 5: and they have said that they will abide by that
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: request from the US. And meanwhile the Huthis continue to
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: hit Saudi facilities. Just just overnight they hit another one
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: in uh in Taiez and uh that that's causing Saudi
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: Arabia enormous, enormous problems right around the babble Vendeb Strait,
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: which is you know, goes goes to the Trump administration's
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: project of just trying to keep as much oil in
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: as possible. But Ukraine's having devastated Russia's ability to export oil,
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: it couldn't have come at a worse time for this
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: Trump administration strategy.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: So the oil market is tightening. And you mentioned JD Vance,
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: So I didn't want to play this clip of JD
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: on Fox, And it's less interesting to me what JD says,
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: but more than Fox is asking these kind of questions
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: now about the seesaw nature of all this. Let's take
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: a listen.
• 13:23
  Speaker 7: Let's talk for a minute about Iran. There is frustration,
• 13:26
  Speaker 7: mister Vice President. I think out there on the seesaw
• 13:30
  Speaker 7: nature of what's going on in Iran. We're close to
• 13:34
  Speaker 7: a deal, then we're going to bomb the hell out
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: of them. The strait is open, then the strait is closed.
• 13:40
  Speaker 7: And I'm sure that frustration is shared inside the White House.
• 13:43
  Speaker 7: So I know it's hard to project, but let me
• 13:46
  Speaker 7: ask you, how does this end what does this look
• 13:49
  Speaker 7: like when and if it's over with Iran?
• 13:54
  Speaker 8: Well, well, the thing I could say with confidence is
• 13:56
  Speaker 8: I think this ends with the United States and a
• 13:59
  Speaker 8: strong they ran not having a nuclear weapon, and with
• 14:04
  Speaker 8: the straight of Horror moves returned to a place where
• 14:06
  Speaker 8: oil and gas prices are stable for the American people.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: And he continues to go on and say they're using
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: all the tools all the.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: Well, that's a very interesting response to what happens to
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: the Strait of Horror Moves. He doesn't say even that
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: the straight of horor moves would return to a pre
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: war status. Quote, he says that we'll just have traffic
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: basically through the straight of war moves. And so that's
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: the fact that that was the way he described what
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: they're trying to get back to in the Strait of
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: Horror Moves is already an al now it being on
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: Fox News. I wouldn't take that to mean too much
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: because Will Cain Show is one of the view that
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: is like willing to be mildly uh kind of heterodox
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: and outside of no offense again, but Boomer conservative consensus
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: actually offense. Sorry, no offense to the boomers, but to
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: the boomer conservative consensus boomers, Yes, yes, and to them,
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: even the way that question was constructed, it's just still
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: pretty gentle of course.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah. And one thing I will say is there's
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: some analysis that says there's more dark transit getting through
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: the straight of hor moves than maybe is obvious. So
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: you know, that is easing perhaps some pressure. But at
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: the same time, strategic Patroleum Reserve continues to dwindle a
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: lot of questions about what actually constitutes the lowest that
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: you can go there. So you know, I think previously Trump,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: when he signed the MoU seemed to think that there
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: was an imminent collapse that was happening very shortly. He
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: was very concerned about being Herbert Hoover. Now they seem
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: to think that with some maneuvering and job owning of
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: the markets, they can kind of continue to push this
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: forward into the future. And then Scott Bessett, you guys
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: that drops highlighted this. Ryan Scott Bessett said that they're
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: going to up the ante in terms of economic torture
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: of Iranian society. That was my words, not his, but
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: he described historic one to punch, the likes of which
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: economically have never been seen before in world history, and
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: this is their plan to squeeze the Iranian economy until
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: it becomes completely unsustainable. It doesn't seem like they're close
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: to accomplishing this goal, but I have no idea what
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: new mechanisms they happen in mind here.
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, whatever they this, it's absurd because whatever they're doing
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: can't be worse than what they're doing to Cuba, which
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: is completely preventing any energy from getting in and cutting
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: it off from basically the entire international financial system and
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: not allowing it effectively to trade with any other countries.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: So that's a little island that has a lot less
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: of its own resources, population, et cetera.
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: And it's right next to us. This is a country
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: of ninety million that's been under sanctions for forty seven
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: years and has developed a significant kind of self sustaining
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: internal economy. Not enough to get it to the level
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: of where they want to be, but you know, they
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: produce a lot of what they need, whether it comes
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: to industrial capacity or food or energy domestically, and they
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: have huge land borders with people that trade with them.
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: They have train lines that run directly to China. So
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: you know, good luck. I guess in your senior year
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: is what Biden says because it makes no sense. But yeah,
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: I guess we'll see what we'll see what he's got.
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: Certainly they can make things life more miserable, but you know,
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: unlike anything that's ever happened in world history, I'd be surprised.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: All right. Well, and I think that will do it
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: for the run up dates unless we have any of
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: their thoughts there before we move on.
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: Bombing Iraq again.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is significant. And you know I've been saying
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I think it's unlikely that they just sit here and
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: take the economic punishment and let the US drive the train.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: That it's very possible, like slash likely, that they escalate.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: So this might be part of that. And then one
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: other note is that we got some more information about
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: the amount of damage that the US military sustained this war.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: We've lost twenty five percent of our reaper drones. So
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: you know, I think Ron can read these reports as
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: well as we can. They know the dire situation of
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: our stockpiles of various weapons. Now, they know the amount
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: of drones that were as a percentage, that were successfully
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: taken out of our toolkit, and so you know, they
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: catch us in a weak spot right now of our
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: own doing. And that's why I wouldn't be surprised if
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: you saw some escalation from that front.
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: It's kind of merciful that, you know, fewer of us
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: get pay stubs anymore.
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: I just direct deposits.
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: You don't have to see that money going out every
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: two weeks directly to the federal government so that they
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: can build these drones and then just have them fall
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: out of the sky.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I was saying yesterday, I was driving through
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: McLean this Virginia this week and there are a lot
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: of gigantic you can't even call them mansions, they're palaces
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: that are being constructed there. So for some people, the
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: war is going very very well.
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: It's truly incredible what Northern Virginia has. What's happened in
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: Northern Virginia the last like twenty five years through this
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: forever war.
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was gonna say, funny, guess's not really funny
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: is that defense stocks not doing so well. They are
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: in rough shape because then.
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: Getting exposed as your product not working is not great.
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: It turns out you would think would this would be
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: good for them, But yeah, people are like, oh wait,
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: none of this works.
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: Well done everyone.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and yet the response is, let's spend a trillion
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: and a half dollars doing the exact same thing that's
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: been proven to absolutely fail. And we're getting our butt
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: kicked by Ukraine when we do war games against them.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: So let's just continue in this direction with more money.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I like it, Ryan, When I do my taxes
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: for the IRS, I want an option to leave a tip.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: I think that would be great for the future.
• 19:56
  Speaker 6: So custom tip, are you're just going to do the
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: eighteen percent?
• 20:00
  Speaker 9: What do you get?
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: What are you doing eighteen percent? Come on, it's twenty
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: twenty six. We're doing twenty to twenty five percent here.
• 20:05
  Speaker 6: These guys are working hard.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, anything less than in Northern Virginia. That's probably a
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: lot of palenteer palenteered doing great.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: No, that's right. It's where you put your money. So
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: let's talk a little bit about wokeness. Uh, wokeness has
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: come for Scott Jenning. Scott Jenning, the number one blue
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: haired wokester on the CNN Panels, has a lot to
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: say about Abdul el Sayed yesh septem Piers. He has
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: a lot to say about Abdul elsa Ed and African Americans.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: Let's talk. Let's let's take a listen.
• 20:39
  Speaker 10: Here on top of these candidates, in their own words,
• 20:43
  Speaker 10: their surrogates are just as bad even Actually, Sarah, you
• 20:47
  Speaker 10: continue today our exploration of the radical socialist streamer Assan Piker.
• 20:53
  Speaker 10: He's Abdual l say Ed's best friend, and he campaigns
• 20:55
  Speaker 10: for time and African Americans out there within the sound
• 21:00
  Speaker 10: of my voice need to listen.
• 21:02
  Speaker 6: Up, and you must listen carefully.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: This is who's socialists.
• 21:07
  Speaker 10: Like Abdual l Sied choose to keep for company.
• 21:11
  Speaker 6: Just listen to this, Hassan Piker.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: And cutting.
• 21:15
  Speaker 11: What black people care about? Oh, black people care about this?
• 21:17
  Speaker 11: Black people care about that? Like, shut the up, that's
• 21:19
  Speaker 11: not how politics works. Oh well, Hassan, how dare you
• 21:24
  Speaker 11: like it or not black people care about this issue.
• 21:26
  Speaker 6: It's like, it's such a fucking stupid stance.
• 21:29
  Speaker 11: Any other black folk want to engage in radical activist
• 21:32
  Speaker 11: language in this chat?
• 21:33
  Speaker 6: Suck my yes, dude, it's because I'm racist.
• 21:37
  Speaker 9: That's why.
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: It's because I'm racist. Dude. Go back to a better
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: time when lynchings were happening. This is what I like
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: as a black man. Are you always doing too much
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: with black people.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: Leave them alone.
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: I want to go back to lynching. Like I get it,
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: but relaxed, man, shut the up.
• 21:51
  Speaker 11: Okay, you got me, Okay, you got me because I'm
• 21:55
  Speaker 11: a racist person.
• 21:58
  Speaker 10: You just heard campaign all the time for I have
• 22:01
  Speaker 10: dual l Sayed in Michigan. He campaigns for other Democrats
• 22:05
  Speaker 10: around the country. Every black voter in this country needs
• 22:08
  Speaker 10: to listen to this. And if you look at these
• 22:10
  Speaker 10: Democratic primaries, black voters have been voting against the socialists,
• 22:14
  Speaker 10: only to be overruled in many cases by young, privileged
• 22:17
  Speaker 10: white commis. Might be black voters find a home in
• 22:21
  Speaker 10: the Republican Party this fall. Well, if Democratic campaigns are
• 22:25
  Speaker 10: adopting the Piker plan of returning our country to lynchings,
• 22:29
  Speaker 10: that just might happen.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: Okay, all right, can I start because I have a
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: lot of thoughts on this, please, I'm collecting myself as
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: our resident woke st Yes. First of all, what Hassan
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: was doing in those clips is technically anti woke, right,
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: it's dark woke. It's him making fun of people who
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: are being ridiculous and policing things that he said, which
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: is if you paid any attention to Hassan Piker and
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: you cared about presenting an accurate depiction of who he
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: actually is, you would understand. Secondly, clipping people out of
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: context is one of the most evil things that you
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: can do on the Internet, and also for your own cause.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: By the way, like, if you really think that Hassan
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: Piker is a racist, you should be able to find
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: real clips of him actually being a racist instead of
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: making fun of his opponents. And I really think some
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: idiot at a Republican opposition research firm handed this to
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: Scott Jennings on a silver platter, and because they haven't
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: bothered to learn one or two things about what Hassan
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: Piker actually does, they ran with it without checking it.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: And now Hassan Piker is I'm sure you have this
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: Griffin Is Sue is in litigation for defamation because they
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: were too stupid to actually do the legwork of figuring
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: out what he really does on his show.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: I don't think they're too stupid. I think they don't
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: give ah, they don't there, they don't care whether it's
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: true or false. They have decided he's going to be
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: a boogeyman. It doesn't matter whether there is a basis
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: in reality, or not, And so over tens of thousands
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: of hours of content they clip a few things that
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: are completely completely misrepresent his views. Do you think Hassan
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Piker wants black people to be lynched? That is saying insane,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: and that is a monstrous thing to say about someone,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: especially someone whose entire politics are deeply committed to equality
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: and to human rights and to anti racism. To do
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: that is so sick. I am really glad that Hassan
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: is going after him because this should not This is
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: this crosses a line beyond like good faith misinterpretation or
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: while he did say that they deserve no, this goes
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: way beyond that and is thoroughly disgusting. I don't care
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: whether you love or hate Hassan Piker. Everyone the way
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: you did. Emily should call it out. And you know,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's cute or funny. I think it's
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: genuinely disgusting and monstrous and a fucking evil thing to do.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: It's evil. And the only thing I wanted to add
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: to that is that I spend a lot of time
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: with people on the right. They genuinely don't understand Hassan Piker,
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: and some of them it is because they don't bother
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: to and some of them is because they're stupid, and
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: some of your right, Crystal, they just literally don't care.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: But they're gonna care when they get a defamation lawsuit.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: And I think it's great that he's going after it
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: because he should.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, like Scarborough when he did his whole, like unhinged,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: spittle laden rant against Hassan, it's like, oh, I've never
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: watched him, then what are we doing here? And he
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: also was lying and misrepresenting the comments that Hassan has
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: made about October seventh in service of his you know,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: unhinged meltout tyr tirade.
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: They fundamentally don't understand streaming. They don't understand when people
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: are on for eight hours a day. They're going back
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: and forth being sarcastic with the people that are throwing
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: questions at them. Anyway, Yeah, I just co sign the
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: that it's.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Evil and Ryan, I've and to you, I would ask,
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: you know, I've seen a lot of attacks on Hassan
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: as he is connected to all these lefty progressive candidates.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: You know, clips like this are probably getting retweeted by
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: like near A Tandon and people like that. So is
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: there some sort of crossover alliance happening between these Scott
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: Jenning types and these more centrist establishment liberals.
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: There's some for sure, maybe like the Michael LaRosa guy
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: and those and those sorts of folks are are pushing
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: it if they still count as like even democrats at
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: this point, it's gonna the question for whether or not
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: it rises the demo defamation will be whether or not
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: really it's a it's a an assertion of fact, or
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: if it if it can count as this like over
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: the top like hyperbole, because like and if you're a
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: if you're somebody who is always spouting over the top hyperbole,
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: you interestingly you kind of get more protection from course.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: Alex Jones used that defense.
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: Right because people are like, oh, like he always he
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: always has crazy stuff.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: It did not work with because he was making factual
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: claims that were noably false. When it came to Sandy Hook.
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: He to me, Jennings is making a factual claim here.
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: He does at the end he makes a factual claim
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: about Lynchings making a factual assertion that is factually untrue,
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: and it is demonstrably untrue.
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: And Jennings either knows or with a tiny bit of diligence,
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: would have known that it was untrue, which makes it malicious,
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: which is the standard for defamation. I hate defamation cases
• 27:49
  Speaker 5: because it, you know, people over use them to restrict
• 27:52
  Speaker 5: people's ability to have speech, debate and argue. Right, But
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: there also needs to be some check on on on
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: lying about on affirmatively lying about people in such a
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: dangerous way if you don't like what he says, like
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: criticize what he says, but don't fabricate things that he
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: never said and then condemn him for that in a
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: way that then gets circulated and is like genuinely dangerous
• 28:20
  Speaker 5: and also just corrosive of like the idea of public debate.
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: So yeah, I hope I hope he does go forward
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: with this, And Jennings has to think about like and
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: and people in the the future have to say because
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: we're in this space, and Hassan has made this point
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: that we have two standards for what's allowable in conversation.
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: If you are supportive of Israel in general, you can
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: say whatever you want about people who are critics of Israel,
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: doesn't have to be true, can be completely blatantly false,
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: and that is just the that is the norm that
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: is allowed within our current media structure that's changing and
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: as it changes, like this could be one of the
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: things that forces a change where you where people like
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: Scott Jennings who is literally working for a radio station
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: radio network whose chief strategy officer, Brad Parscale is a
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: registered agent for the Israeli government. Like that's the program
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: he was on is under the guidance of an Israeli agent.
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: And if those folks have to check themselves a little
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: bit and think, oh wait, I actually have to pay
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: attention to what I'm saying here and it has to
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: have some basis in fact or truth, then that's I
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: think that that's a good thing, and we have we
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: have to get to that place. Is this world where
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: one side can just lie all the time and the
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: other side says true things and gets raked over the
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: calls for it is unsustainable.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: But I just want to say on that point, this
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: is why Griffin's opening joke about woke Scott Jennings is
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: a really good one, because Scott Jennings would have complained
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: for years about people on college campuses, like professors on
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: college campus, people with some legitimate power saying whatever the
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: hell they want to say about accusing others of racism
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: or whatever it is, and that's a really serious accusation.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: And the reason then he's like flipping around and doing
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: the exact same thing, and in a way that is
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: so so cynical. It's just like completely undermines any credibility
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: that anyone ever wanted to have. If he wants to
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: be a critic of the corporate media, this undermines your credibility.
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: Say that no Americans trust media. This undermines your credibility, Like,
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: how can you say that again? And that's again why
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: it's also important for people on the right to understand
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: what Han Piker does, which is reject a lot of
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: the woke pieties that were foisted by in some cases,
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: the Hillary Clinton's of the world onto the left. And
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: so if you want to make an argument against the
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: son Piker, you sure as all better understand what he's
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: actually doing, which was rejecting in many cases political correctness.
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: From those very clips that he showed as some example
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: of him calling for lynchings, like it is just based
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: on a willful misunderstanding in some cases, Crystals, I think
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: you're totally corrected. As cynical, they don't care. But again,
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: a defamation lawsuit does make you, to Ryan's point, have
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: to think about it and exert a modicum of care.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll just say to the liberals who think
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: this is great or they're going to quietly be happy
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: about it because they want to make Hassana buggy man
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: just as much as the right does, if not more,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: because it's more directly existential to them right now and
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: there grow up on the party, Like, if you think
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: the right views you any differently, you are so delusional.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: They think you're all communists, they think you're all socialists,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: they think you're all most importantly obstacles to their own power,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: and will not hesitate to use these very same disgusting,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: shameful tactics against you. So get it together. Let's focus people,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Let's focus on what is you know more here, and
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: you know, and again this isn't even shouldn't be a
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: left right thing because this could literally be done to
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: absolutely everyone, Which is why I've defended many people that
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I vociferously disagree with when they have been smeared or
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: canceled and things have been done to them that I
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: thought were, you know, unfair and unjust.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: Well, speaking of people who are focused, Jill Biden's ex staffer,
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: Michael Lo rosa, former guest on this program, is continuing
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: the tirade against AES and seems tangentially also related to
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: us on Let's take a listen to him on Fox News.
• 32:37
  Speaker 12: I want the Democrats to win. I think they're going
• 32:39
  Speaker 12: to win the Senate. I think they're going to win
• 32:40
  Speaker 12: the House. I want Chuck Schumer and Brian Schatz to
• 32:42
  Speaker 12: be the next majority leaders. I want to do it
• 32:44
  Speaker 12: with the and what can be done.
• 32:48
  Speaker 9: But this is what I signed up for.
• 32:50
  Speaker 12: Totan Koff and FS and defending it and then defending
• 32:53
  Speaker 12: Hassan Piker is just not the leader of my party.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: And it's okay for Democrats to say that.
• 32:58
  Speaker 12: My old boss Chris Matthews was on TV this morning
• 33:01
  Speaker 12: saying Democrats just need to do the hard part of politicians,
• 33:03
  Speaker 12: which is sometimes standing up to your friends.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: Okay, Now, solar eclipse in Europe on this.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: I'm quite an eclipse. Don't look. Don't look directly at Lrosa.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: You need some protective eyewear for that. Uh so, yeah,
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: two things to flag here, he says. The tote cop
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: for a s the tote coff tattoo is moving, it's
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: shifting candidates. It's now apparently on Abdul Yes, So that's
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: very interesting to watch out. And then also, you know,
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: I think we have we can't neglect to mention who
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: Lerosa is currently working for. Ryan isn't he currently working
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: as a consultant for a Trump friendly gentleman.
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: Their clients include Saudi Arabia haf Tar, who is a
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: warlord in Libya. They had TikTok he and l Rosso
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: was actually on that account, but he got fired in April.
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: He claims on Twitter that happens all the time contracts expire. Yes,
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: they kept contracts with all their other lobbying firms. So
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: I think the pieces are starting to come together a
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: little bit. Like in April he loses this fifty thousand
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: dollars a month TikTok contract. He's been on an absolute rampage,
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: you know, Ellison now the owner of TikTok. I think
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: he's trying to show his value to these Trump that
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: these Trump people that he works for, and so I
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: think that has given him an extra level of motivation
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: to just go out and go on these screens. But
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: it would be nice if news organizations would say, we're
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: now joined by a representative of a Libyan warlord and
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: Saudi Arabia to tell to tell us what he thinks about.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Piker on morality.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: But Crystal, Crystal, we have you know, a math guy later.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: But I have a math question for you now. He
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: says that he wants to take the Senate without aees,
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: what's the math like on that take the Senate? But
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: we don't have Abdul in the Senate.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Just as it is theoretically possible for a woman to
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: be good at math, it is also theoretically possible for
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Democrats to win the Senate without Michigan.
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: Yesikely that people might just see this clip and not
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: the callback reference from the earlier part.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Of the Scott Jennings is going to be posting this
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: later today. You're right, No, but that's exactly ladies, listen
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: up to what Crystal thinks of you.
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's the equivalent, that's exactly.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Literally literally.
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: And I are the two worst at math on this
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: call or.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: Its pretty.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: Crystal is probably very good at math.
• 35:57
  Speaker 7: I am not.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm serviceable. I'm not. I would and say
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: very good, I'm serviceable. I was competent, all right, well.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: On the level not me On that note, sounds like
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: we all need to hit the books. Let's get to
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: our math professor Daniel here.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: I actually feel like you would be very good at math, Crystal, Daniel,
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: what's going on?
• 36:22
  Speaker 9: Hey, well how about you guys?
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Good and great? We're doing this.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: So, Daniel, this is Daniel Litt. You are a university
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: professor at the University of Toronto. Welcome. You've been talking
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: a lot about mathematics and artificial intelligence. Now, you know,
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: when I do math, I put it in my phone
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: calculator and I'm set. But where does AI play into this?
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: That's kind of an artificial intelligence of sorts, and there's
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: these long unsolved math problems that are now being solved
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: by AI. So tell us a little bit about that.
• 36:57
  Speaker 13: Yeah, So, first of all, I want to say you've
• 36:59
  Speaker 13: made a great point. So in some sense, what we're
• 37:04
  Speaker 13: seeing now so AI being useful for open questions in
• 37:08
  Speaker 13: mathematics is like a continuation of a long trend, right, So,
• 37:13
  Speaker 13: you know, calculating machines, computers, even going back to EPICAI
• 37:17
  Speaker 13: world advocates have like already for a very long time,
• 37:20
  Speaker 13: been important for mathematics. What we're seeing now is like
• 37:24
  Speaker 13: problems that previously required a human expert, maybe no human
• 37:27
  Speaker 13: expert spent time on them. In some cases human expert
• 37:30
  Speaker 13: spend a lot of time on them being resolved more
• 37:33
  Speaker 13: or less autonomously by by machines, by artificial intelligence, and
• 37:36
  Speaker 13: then a lot more being resolved by like a combined
• 37:41
  Speaker 13: effort teamwork between human mathematicians and machines. And so I think,
• 37:44
  Speaker 13: I mean, that's a really exciting time. Like there's a
• 37:46
  Speaker 13: lot of open questions, things that I've been wondering about
• 37:48
  Speaker 13: for a long time that you know, I expect we'll
• 37:52
  Speaker 13: we'll have some help resolving now.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Grifvin, can you put this this open AI story from
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: courts up on this about Astra specifically solving ten different
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: I guess conjectures forgive my total lack of math knowledge
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: here table. That's why we've got you in that were
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: you know, long unsolved by humans and AI got involved
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: and now has you know, has been able to solve
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: some of these problems. First of all, just help put
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: in context, like what are these things? How long have
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: they been out there? Which one sort of impressed you
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: the most? How should we think about this as an achievement.
• 38:28
  Speaker 13: Yeah, so maybe let me give you some context. So
• 38:30
  Speaker 13: there's like something like, I don't know, somewhere between maybe
• 38:34
  Speaker 13: like ten thousand professional mathematicians in North America worldwide. More
• 38:38
  Speaker 13: than that, obviously, there's probably like millions of open conjectures.
• 38:42
  Speaker 13: There's a lot of open problems. Some of them are important,
• 38:44
  Speaker 13: some of that and have have had a lot of
• 38:46
  Speaker 13: attention put forth trying to resolve them, some of them
• 38:50
  Speaker 13: not so much, some of them almost nothing like. So okay,
• 38:53
  Speaker 13: so these are I would say, among the more important
• 38:55
  Speaker 13: results proved by AI. They're still very kind of specialist
• 38:59
  Speaker 13: questions in general, so like questions that most mathematicians have
• 39:02
  Speaker 13: spent zero time thinking about, probably had never even heard of.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Can I just pause you to specify on there? You said,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: these are some of the most important conjectures solved by AI.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: How do they compare to some of the conjecture solved
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: by humans? Read like, how would they rate if this
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: was a human being that had accomplished.
• 39:18
  Speaker 9: That's that's great.
• 39:19
  Speaker 13: So what's certainly true is that if a human being
• 39:21
  Speaker 13: had accomplished, like, had proven these results, they would have
• 39:24
  Speaker 13: been rewarded for it. So like if a graduate student
• 39:26
  Speaker 13: had done it, they would probably get an interview at
• 39:28
  Speaker 13: a good university. If you compare them to like the
• 39:30
  Speaker 13: best results produced by humans in a given year, they
• 39:33
  Speaker 13: would you know, probably rank pretty high up, but definitely
• 39:36
  Speaker 13: they wouldn't be like better than the bestuls produced by
• 39:38
  Speaker 13: a human in a given year. They are also all
• 39:42
  Speaker 13: certain kinds of problems, so like the AI models are
• 39:46
  Speaker 13: not autonomously doing all kinds of work that mathematicians do.
• 39:50
  Speaker 13: I think that you should think of them, by and
• 39:52
  Speaker 13: large as being problems that can be attacked with existing techniques,
• 39:58
  Speaker 13: maybe sometimes very clever we put together. I'm not saying
• 40:01
  Speaker 13: that that will continue to be the case, that like
• 40:03
  Speaker 13: that we won't see more exciting with new techniques developed
• 40:06
  Speaker 13: by models. I think that will probably happen, but that's
• 40:08
  Speaker 13: where things are now.
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: So I I moderated a panel at this interesting neurosymbolic
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: AI conference last week where that was there. They're big,
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: they're big emphasis. Basically, they're saying that the l i ms,
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: the lms are just you know, they're they're doing their thing,
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: but there's there's a real cap on what they're what
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: they're actually capable of. And if you're not combining you know,
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: their strategies with neurosymbolic AI, then you're never going to
• 40:36
  Speaker 5: get beyond you know, you're gonna never gonna get to
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: a place of actual reasoning when it when it comes
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: to approaching these math questions, is how much is tool
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: based and how much is how much of this neurosymbolic
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: approach is essential for it? Or are we just straight
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: up doing these with l l ms.
• 40:54
  Speaker 9: Yeah, so that's a good question.
• 40:55
  Speaker 13: I think that, uh, there's a lot of disagreement on
• 40:58
  Speaker 13: on whether l M have an upper limit in their
• 41:01
  Speaker 13: ability to.
• 41:01
  Speaker 9: Be useful for math research.
• 41:03
  Speaker 13: I'm skeptical that like new techniques are needed to do
• 41:06
  Speaker 13: high quality work like already. I think the same people
• 41:09
  Speaker 13: claiming we need new new architectures claimed that a few
• 41:12
  Speaker 13: years ago and then it seemed not to be seems
• 41:14
  Speaker 13: not to be.
• 41:14
  Speaker 9: True in general.
• 41:15
  Speaker 13: That said, yeah, so the these models are definitely in
• 41:18
  Speaker 13: many cases using tools like writing Python scripts and so on.
• 41:21
  Speaker 9: If you want to call that neuro symbolic, you can.
• 41:24
  Speaker 13: That said, it's you know, I think there's like been
• 41:26
  Speaker 13: a lot of predictions about the limits of current architectures,
• 41:30
  Speaker 13: and I'm personally skeptical. I think the models are going
• 41:32
  Speaker 13: to continue a lot to get a lot better and
• 41:34
  Speaker 13: to be you know, more and more useful for math research.
• 41:37
  Speaker 6: For example, how do how do you end up like
• 41:42
  Speaker 6: knowing it's true? Like, how do if they get the right?
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: So?
• 41:45
  Speaker 6: How do you know?
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: That?
• 41:46
  Speaker 9: Is a really great question.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:47
  Speaker 13: So okay, so one thing is like we're going to
• 41:49
  Speaker 13: need a lot more mathematicians right like right now.
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: These So that's actually very that's interesting. So can you
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: speak to that too, that because because this is part
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: of the claim from sure Good companies is that the
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: ends up some of these weird things will open up
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: opportunities for humans in ways that we haven't yet anticipated.
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: Is that kind of what you're saying.
• 42:06
  Speaker 13: Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, so right now the
• 42:08
  Speaker 13: models are producing like a huge amount of text. Most
• 42:11
  Speaker 13: of that that's not like, you know, just a bunch
• 42:13
  Speaker 13: of symbols that you can put into a computer and check,
• 42:15
  Speaker 13: Like most of them are English language proofs. Okay, sometimes
• 42:18
  Speaker 13: they can be checked automatically. So there's a technology called
• 42:22
  Speaker 13: formal formalization, essentially a way of turning a mathematical proof
• 42:26
  Speaker 13: into a computer program and then the computer can check that. So,
• 42:29
  Speaker 13: for example, with these ten new results from open AI.
• 42:32
  Speaker 13: Those were formalized in a language called lean and so
• 42:34
  Speaker 13: they were checked rigorously by a computer before open AI
• 42:38
  Speaker 13: put them out. In some areas of mathematics, that's now practical.
• 42:41
  Speaker 13: In some areas it's not so okay. So for example,
• 42:43
  Speaker 13: every day now I'm getting set like new claims like,
• 42:46
  Speaker 13: oh I proved such and such using an LM, Is
• 42:48
  Speaker 13: it right? Like the people producing this aren't able to
• 42:50
  Speaker 13: check it. It's really hard.
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So.
• 42:54
  Speaker 13: At least in the short term, just to check these
• 42:56
  Speaker 13: things are correct, and they're often not, we need a
• 42:59
  Speaker 13: lot more mathematicians, we mean a lot of people working
• 43:01
  Speaker 13: on this.
• 43:01
  Speaker 9: In the long term, I think, even if we get to.
• 43:03
  Speaker 13: A point where like computers are like really reliable, where
• 43:05
  Speaker 13: the lms are able to check their own work very reliably,
• 43:08
  Speaker 13: or where we can like formalize them and lead, what's
• 43:11
  Speaker 13: the point of producing a bunch of math papers that
• 43:14
  Speaker 13: no one's reading, like, I think, in order to engage
• 43:16
  Speaker 13: with it, in order to like, you know, have it
• 43:18
  Speaker 13: become part of our mathematical knowledge. Like, we're going to
• 43:21
  Speaker 13: need a lot more mathematicians just to read this work,
• 43:23
  Speaker 13: let alone you know, develop it further.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: So let me get your reaction to the substack that
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: you undoubtedly saw called the dark Knight of mathematics. Kirwin
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: Ham Sure's is what are we really doing? I'm going insane.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: During the last week or so, lllms have produced a
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: number of counter examples to significant, long standing conjectures. Talking
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: about the news stories we're covering right now, I will
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: not recount these happenings here. There are many places where
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: you can find the details. Mathematicians, math enthusiasts, and curiously
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: people are responding to these developments in ways I believe
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: obscure what is for me the true heart of the problem.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: I do not speak for everyone in the math community
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: in my response, but I suspect I'm not alone. I
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: am suffering a profound spiritual crisis due to these developments.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: I've been screaming internally for days. It feels as though
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: I am living inside of a nightmare. And he basically
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: talks about this existential dread that he has of Now
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: computers can do this all of the joy that I
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: get from mathematics, which is exploring these unknown questions and
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: being at the forefront of discovery and pushing human knowledge forward.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: I feel that is being taken away from me, And
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: he says at one point, even if we bann the
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: AI at this point, because we're like, oh well, we
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: got to let humans do this stuff and sort of
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: did like an affirmative action for humans over robots, He's like,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: it wouldn't be the same because I would know they
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: could have done this and could have done it more
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: easily than I ever could dream. So I wonder what
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: you made of this piece, and if you have also,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: you know, had this sort of existential dread about the
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: robots pushing you out of the aspects of your profession
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: that you enjoy the most.
• 45:00
  Speaker 13: Yeah, so okay, So first of all, I really empathize
• 45:02
  Speaker 13: with what Cohen wrote there. I think there's a lot
• 45:05
  Speaker 13: of uncertainty in the profession right now. You know, anytime
• 45:09
  Speaker 13: radical new technology develops, like certain skills that humans have
• 45:13
  Speaker 13: become less important and others might become more important.
• 45:16
  Speaker 9: And I think it's.
• 45:17
  Speaker 13: Really totally reasonable to have anxiety about that. A lot
• 45:20
  Speaker 13: of young people in the profession, graduate students, math undergrads
• 45:24
  Speaker 13: are really concerned, and I think justifiably, we don't know
• 45:27
  Speaker 13: what the profession is going to look like in a
• 45:29
  Speaker 13: few years. That said, why is the profession of mathematics valuable? Like,
• 45:34
  Speaker 13: presumably it's because we think mathematics is really important. We
• 45:38
  Speaker 13: have all these burning questions that we want to know
• 45:41
  Speaker 13: the answers to, Like, you know, my personal motivation for
• 45:44
  Speaker 13: doing math is like, I have so many questions that
• 45:47
  Speaker 13: no one knows the answer to that I really want
• 45:48
  Speaker 13: to understand, and a new tool that helps me do
• 45:50
  Speaker 13: that I think is extremely valuable. Right, So, like ultimately
• 45:57
  Speaker 13: being worried, being anxious about uncertainties and how the profession develops,
• 46:02
  Speaker 13: it's like totally reasonable, totally understandable, and I think that,
• 46:07
  Speaker 13: you know, there are a lot of hard questions we're
• 46:08
  Speaker 13: going to have to answer about, like what the profession
• 46:10
  Speaker 13: will look like in a few years as these tools
• 46:12
  Speaker 13: become more capable. That said, Like my personal view is
• 46:17
  Speaker 13: that we're going to see an explosion of need for mathematicians,
• 46:21
  Speaker 13: an explosion of need for like math metal, human capital,
• 46:24
  Speaker 13: like as these questions start to be answered. Okay, one
• 46:27
  Speaker 13: more common is like the models are starting to be
• 46:31
  Speaker 13: able to do a lot of things. Definitely, like a
• 46:33
  Speaker 13: sent look, the vast majority of mathe metal tasks I do,
• 46:36
  Speaker 13: the models like aren't helpful with yet. But let's suppose
• 46:39
  Speaker 13: let's suppose in the future they become able to do
• 46:41
  Speaker 13: all those things. They're not going to be able to
• 46:44
  Speaker 13: do everything. I think there's good theoretical reasons to believe
• 46:46
  Speaker 13: that there's arbitrarily hard interesting math questions, and so there's
• 46:51
  Speaker 13: going to be a lot of open questions that we
• 46:52
  Speaker 13: still don't know the answer to that we still want
• 46:54
  Speaker 13: to know the answer to. Maybe we'll have the feeling
• 46:56
  Speaker 13: in a few years or ten or twenty years down
• 46:58
  Speaker 13: the line. The models are so good if they're not
• 47:00
  Speaker 13: able to answer this question, like, uh, are we going
• 47:04
  Speaker 13: to be able to make progress?
• 47:06
  Speaker 9: Well, I don't know.
• 47:07
  Speaker 13: What I like to say is but the job of
• 47:08
  Speaker 13: a mathematician is being stuck and being confused and trying
• 47:11
  Speaker 13: to understand these hard problems.
• 47:13
  Speaker 9: And I don't think that's going to go away.
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: But if if we need more mathematicians yet at the
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: same time, these these robots are doing all our thinking
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: for kids, is there is there concern about and is
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: there anything being done about the fact that we're not developed,
• 47:30
  Speaker 5: like there's a risk that we won't develop critical math
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: thinking skills in the same way that we have in
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: the past because people have these the crutch of these llms.
• 47:40
  Speaker 13: Yeah, that's a great point, and we definitely need to
• 47:41
  Speaker 13: rethink a lot about how we do mathic of education.
• 47:44
  Speaker 13: And I want to point out, like we've been talking
• 47:45
  Speaker 13: about math at like the very tip of this pyramid,
• 47:48
  Speaker 13: like research professors or something right like there's you know,
• 47:51
  Speaker 13: some several thousand of us. Uh, you can't produce that
• 47:55
  Speaker 13: without a pipeline. We need to have, you know, if
• 47:59
  Speaker 13: we want people to be understanding like these answers to
• 48:01
  Speaker 13: the questions that have been torturing us for years, like
• 48:04
  Speaker 13: we need a pipeline of millions, or you know, everyone
• 48:07
  Speaker 13: needs to be learning math. I think that, you know,
• 48:09
  Speaker 13: there's an opportunity here as well as a danger, like
• 48:11
  Speaker 13: the the you know, a new tool gives you new
• 48:15
  Speaker 13: ways to learn. I absolutely agree with you that there's
• 48:17
  Speaker 13: like a danger of de skilling. I don't think it's
• 48:20
  Speaker 13: like insurmountable. You know, I've been thinking a lot about
• 48:23
  Speaker 13: how to redesign my courses. I'm not involved in like
• 48:27
  Speaker 13: K twelve education, but I'm sure that a lot of
• 48:29
  Speaker 13: people are thinking seriously about how to how to adapt
• 48:31
  Speaker 13: their teaching methods to the fact that like it's now
• 48:33
  Speaker 13: possible to you know, have a machine do your homework.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I hope that that's the case.
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: What you do is so obviously theoretically complicated that I'm
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: going to have a hard time understanding it. But could
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: you give us an example, maybe, sure, something that the
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: models are really breaking, perhaps a new ground on or
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: are pushing further than we were prepared for this quickly.
• 48:59
  Speaker 9: Sure?
• 48:59
  Speaker 13: Yeah, okay, so maybe let me say so. The sources
• 49:01
  Speaker 13: of things I think about are like about numbers and
• 49:04
  Speaker 13: shapes mostly and the interactions between those two things. So
• 49:07
  Speaker 13: like that's number theory and algebraic geometry. I guess this
• 49:09
  Speaker 13: theory I'm in.
• 49:11
  Speaker 9: So most of the questions I think about the models
• 49:13
  Speaker 9: have not been.
• 49:14
  Speaker 13: So useful at what I would say, those places they're
• 49:17
  Speaker 13: useful are so, first of all, things that you can
• 49:22
  Speaker 13: really parallelize. So for example, if you're like looking for
• 49:25
  Speaker 13: an example of something, you can try a million different
• 49:28
  Speaker 13: things at the same time with the models. That's something
• 49:30
  Speaker 13: where if a human, you know, if you needed a
• 49:32
  Speaker 13: human to do that, they'd have to try a million
• 49:34
  Speaker 13: things sequentially, and that would take a long time. And
• 49:36
  Speaker 13: there's also like no guarantee of success. So that's like
• 49:38
  Speaker 13: very expensive. You know, you spend a year of your
• 49:40
  Speaker 13: time trying to find like an example of something you
• 49:42
  Speaker 13: probably don't even make partial progress, Like most people don't
• 49:45
  Speaker 13: pursue projects like that. So that's some place where the
• 49:48
  Speaker 13: models have been really helpful. The other places where the
• 49:51
  Speaker 13: models have been really helpful are problems where it's easy
• 49:54
  Speaker 13: to tell your right. So in a lot of mathematics,
• 49:57
  Speaker 13: you know, you write down a proof maybe and that's
• 50:00
  Speaker 13: actually something that's really hard to check, Like you need
• 50:02
  Speaker 13: an export to check it. It might take a long time.
• 50:05
  Speaker 13: There might not be many people who can do that.
• 50:07
  Speaker 13: Sometimes though, like you want to make a construction, you
• 50:10
  Speaker 13: might even be able to like write a Python program
• 50:12
  Speaker 13: or something to check that construction is correct. So like
• 50:14
  Speaker 13: even if the way you came up with it is
• 50:16
  Speaker 13: like kind of hard to check, like the output is
• 50:18
  Speaker 13: easy to check. And that's something where again the models
• 50:21
  Speaker 13: have been very useful, just again because like they can
• 50:23
  Speaker 13: you know, you write that Python program, say, and then
• 50:25
  Speaker 13: they can just like plug in their outputs into the
• 50:27
  Speaker 13: program and then tell you, oh, I found something that works,
• 50:31
  Speaker 13: so that I would say those are the primary sorts
• 50:34
  Speaker 13: of situations where they've been really useful, So you should
• 50:37
  Speaker 13: think it's something like making constructions or doing things that
• 50:39
  Speaker 13: it might have been very expensive for a human to try.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: It sounds like sort of when a brute force approach
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: would be useful, that that's where they excel. Is that fair?
• 50:51
  Speaker 9: Yeah, that's definitely part of it.
• 50:52
  Speaker 13: So definitely the models like have you know, they don't
• 50:54
  Speaker 13: get tired, they are able to go pretty far. That's
• 50:58
  Speaker 13: sound like I don't want to try. I don't want
• 50:59
  Speaker 13: to be downplaying their successes. I think some of what
• 51:03
  Speaker 13: the models have done is like something that I would
• 51:05
  Speaker 13: I consider really clever. Like you know, if a graduate
• 51:10
  Speaker 13: student had done it, I wouldn't say like, oh, you
• 51:11
  Speaker 13: did that by brute force.
• 51:12
  Speaker 9: So it's like you had a pretty good.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Idea, gotcha. Well, And that relates to the last question
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: I at least have for you, Dana, which is that
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: there's this concept in debates over how transformational AI is
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: going to be where people who tend to downplay that
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: level of transformation compare it to a quote unquote stochastic parrot.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: They talk about, Look, it's just you know, taking in
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: all of this language and then predicting the next word,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: and that's all it is, and so there's this sort
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: of upper limit of human intelligence is never going to
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: be able to invent discover the creative in the way
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: that human beings can. How do these results impact your
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: view of that debate.
• 51:51
  Speaker 13: That's a great question. I mean, I think that there's
• 51:54
  Speaker 13: some truth to that. Like what we see is like
• 51:56
  Speaker 13: the models are doing math like in it maybe slightly
• 51:59
  Speaker 13: more recomminatory way than people do.
• 52:01
  Speaker 9: That's what I want to.
• 52:02
  Speaker 13: Stress the word slightly, Like I think a lot of
• 52:05
  Speaker 13: what people do is take ideas they've seen and remixed
• 52:08
  Speaker 13: them in various ways. When we kind of go out
• 52:10
  Speaker 13: of distribution, I think it's usually like, you know, within
• 52:12
  Speaker 13: a small distance of distribution. And the way like human
• 52:15
  Speaker 13: knowledge and human ideas grow is like we slowly poke
• 52:18
  Speaker 13: at the edges of what we know and expand that
• 52:19
  Speaker 13: and expand that. I see no evidence that the models
• 52:23
  Speaker 13: will be unable to do that. I expect them to
• 52:26
  Speaker 13: be able to do all the sorts of reasoning.
• 52:28
  Speaker 6: That people do.
• 52:29
  Speaker 13: Maybe that reasoning amounts to predicting the next token, or
• 52:33
  Speaker 13: you know, some kind of stochastic poetry. I think that's
• 52:36
  Speaker 13: a lot of what we do too. So yeah, I
• 52:39
  Speaker 13: am very skeptical that the models have those kinds of limits,
• 52:42
  Speaker 13: even if like that's a correct mechanistic description of what
• 52:45
  Speaker 13: they do.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and perhaps that, to your point, sort of
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: misunderstands the way humans do creativity and discovery, which is
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: a lot of inspiration from other things in their lives
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: and recombination and predicting the next word in terms of
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: how you know and how we speak and how we
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: formulate ideas and linguistic concepts. So, do you guys have
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: any other questions for Daniel?
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: I just have one short question. So you're teaching students
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: all the time, You're seeing students in the throes of
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: this AI evolution. Are they getting stupider? Are they getting smarter?
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: Are they getting lazier?
• 53:20
  Speaker 9: What are That's a good question.
• 53:23
  Speaker 13: I mean, so I think for a self motivated student,
• 53:25
  Speaker 13: this is like the Golden Age, Like you can learn
• 53:27
  Speaker 13: an unbelievable amount much more easily than you could have
• 53:30
  Speaker 13: a year ago. I mean, this is already true, Like
• 53:31
  Speaker 13: the Internet was a huge boon to self motivated students.
• 53:34
  Speaker 13: There are some students who are not as motivated, and
• 53:39
  Speaker 13: for them, you know the fact that it's now cheap
• 53:41
  Speaker 13: and easy to cheat on your homework really sabotages they're learning.
• 53:45
  Speaker 13: My view is that's like an institutional problem. Like a
• 53:47
  Speaker 13: big part of the point of K twelve education universities
• 53:51
  Speaker 13: is to provide a structure that motivates students to actually
• 53:54
  Speaker 13: do the work and actually learn. The old structure where
• 53:59
  Speaker 13: you know, I don't know, you take home exam and
• 54:01
  Speaker 13: you get to think about it for a week, like
• 54:02
  Speaker 13: probably doesn't work for most students anymore. That was my
• 54:05
  Speaker 13: favorite way to learn, And I think it's a little
• 54:07
  Speaker 13: sad we're losing something like that. But I think we'll
• 54:11
  Speaker 13: find a new structure, Like you know, there's anytime there's
• 54:13
  Speaker 13: a new technology, old equilibriums are equilibria are not going
• 54:17
  Speaker 13: to survive and we'll need to find a new one.
• 54:19
  Speaker 13: But I think that ultimately, like, uh, it's going to
• 54:22
  Speaker 13: be great for people who want to learn, and I
• 54:25
  Speaker 13: think that we're going to be able to help the
• 54:27
  Speaker 13: people who are less you know, self motivated, also learned.
• 54:30
  Speaker 9: Despite the fact that there's you know, a ways out all.
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: Right, Well, people say that we never have any optimistic
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: AI guests on there's some optimism here for everybody. Daniel,
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: We thank you so much. A university of Toronto, professor
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: will definitely continue to be in touch if there's any
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: other big math problem solved.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: You want any ready to you want people to follow
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: you on Twitter or you got anything you want to
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: plug Daniel, Yeah.
• 54:57
  Speaker 13: Well sure you can follow me at litmath, l I TTM,
• 55:01
  Speaker 13: and my website's Daniel at dot com.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Awesome. This was very insightful. Thank you so much.
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: We'll see you later, Daniel, see later. All right, So good,
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: very cool, very cool. Back to school, Back to school.
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: It's August September time. We have one update that Crystal
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: wanted to cover about the Galapagos. Now, we did a
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: story yesterday about some mysterious drones and now the Washington
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: Post revealed about an hour or two after our program
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: came out, that confirmed the long mystery attacks on three
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: fishing boats near the Galapagos. They're part of a covert
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: CIA program, with a spyplane with its ownership hidden behind
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: an LLC oriented towards each boat, each boat before the strikes.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, so we had at dropsite. Kudos to you guys.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Ryan had really been the ones pushing this story forward
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: from the beginning. So I want to get your thoughts
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: on this as well. But we had the reporter that
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: you guys had to do this incredible investigation, Kamila Lordes
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Galarza on the show yesterday, and she had broken the
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: story that the Ecuadorian prosecutor who was looking into these
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: US linked boat strikes, including allegations of torture from the
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: survivors who had been pulled from the wreckage and then
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: held for days and tortured allegedly and then dropped in
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: El Salvador. In any case, she had done that incredible reporting,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: and now you've got New York Times picked up the
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: thread and they were able to track down some information
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: about one of the planes that was involved. They traced
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: it to this like ups box in Richmond, I think,
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: Virginia somewhere, you know, somewhere in northern Virginia, Richmond, Virginia,
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: something like that. So it was looking like, oh, this
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: may have been private US backed mercenaries. They would reached
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: out to Eric Prince for comment whether these were former
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Blackwater types, which he is doing similar type things in
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: the region. So still possible that there is an involvement there,
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: though they deny it. Washington Poet in this story seems
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: to have cracked one aspect of it, which is that
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: this looks to be a CIA operation, so slightly different
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: in terms of the command structure versus the boat strikes
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: that the military and Hegseth have been happy to brag
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: about post videos of celebrate. So that was one of
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: the questions, is well, how come in this instance they
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: wanted to deny what had happened in spite of a
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: lot of evidence that you guys at drop site were
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: able to compile that this was US backed, including the
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: fact that the guys that picked up the survivors and
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: that were spotted on the scene spoken American accent and
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: English and had American flag patches on their uniforms, even
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: though they carried no military insignia. So yeah, Ryan, what
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: do you make of these developments? Because this is I mean,
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: just so people know, these were fishermen. I mean, it
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be okay if they were running drugs. By the way,
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: they deserve due process. These were fishermen cleared by the
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Ecuadorian government on commercial licensed fishing vessels, and they were injured, tortured,
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: and murdered. One of the boats is still missing. The
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: prosecutor investing in gating it was murdered. This is a massive,
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: insane scandal. This is a crime. There needs to be accountability,
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: and so, you know, it's really important that these meanstream mountains,
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: even though they of course give you guys no credit,
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: are pushing the story forward in this way.
• 58:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and we know for.
• 58:24
  Speaker 5: A fact from some of the journalists working on this
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: that they've been thankful for our reporting and reading it,
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: reading it quite closely and following it quite explicitly. I
• 58:34
  Speaker 5: would encourage everybody to go listen to the interview you
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: did with Camilla. It was it's very helpful. She lays
• 58:40
  Speaker 5: it out, you know, quite quite well. She also found
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: US Coast Guard vessel like in in the area, Like
• 58:49
  Speaker 5: so it's like US linked drones, Like a lot of
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: the pieces are there. This extra piece from the Washington
• 58:57
  Speaker 5: Post that this is a CIA operation is fast. You
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: would ask Kimilla a really interesting question, like why are
• 59:02
  Speaker 5: they so willing to brag about their crimes in some
• 59:07
  Speaker 5: cases whereas with this one they've been much more reticent.
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: And I think her answer, I think was pretty pretty
• 59:14
  Speaker 5: had a lot of explanatory power. Basically that the Ecuadorian
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: Equadorian Coastguard had intercepted some of these fishing boats previously
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: and had like within hours of this operation, and I've
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: been like, oh, these guys have fishing licenses, these are
• 59:30
  Speaker 5: commercial fishing boats. Like this is not this is not
• 59:33
  Speaker 5: remotely a question like this. This is these guys are
• 59:37
  Speaker 5: what they say they are, and they left them and
• 59:38
  Speaker 5: then and then they get attacked, and so the kind
• 59:43
  Speaker 5: of the gap between what they did and the legality
• 59:47
  Speaker 5: of it is is pretty wide. And all of the
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: boat strikes because it's illegal to just kill people out
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: of the sky. But in this case, when their allies,
• 59:57
  Speaker 5: their their partners had already confirmed that these are commercial
• 59:59
  Speaker 5: f ishmen, and then they come in and we still
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: don't and they torture them, and we still don't know
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 5: where eight of them are. You know, maybe they're still
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 5: an Anhel Salvador in prison. Maybe they were killed, probably
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 5: killed because you know, the some of the ones that
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 5: Camilla interviewed were survivors of a strike. So like it,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 5: but you know, we don't, we don't know, and the
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 5: you know, families are holding out hope at this point.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 5: You know, one one thing that Trump has been so
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 5: effective at doing is is kind of squashing scandals by
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 5: just admitting everything. It really deflates the media's interest in
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 5: an issue when he's like, yeah, we did that and
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 5: this is why we did it. Like they would have,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 5: the media would still be chasing the question of whether
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: or not Trump like got the red card lifted if
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 5: Trump hadn't just come out the next day at a
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 5: press conference and be like, yeah, I called FIFA and
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 5: I was like this is a terrible call. And the
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: press is like, oh, and so they haven't paid proper
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 5: attention to this spree of extrajudicial murders of people out
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 5: in the Caribbean and in the Pacific because Hexa just
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 5: releases the videos. This is a case where the press
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: is finally interested because they're hiding it, and so there's
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 5: there are strings to pull on their witnesses to interview,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: there are videos to find, there's evidence to uncover. Yet
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 5: still interestingly, the Posts and and the Times are still
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 5: flinching a little bit like they don't they don't mention
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 5: that the prosecutor tasks with looking into this was assassinated
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 5: by men on a motorcycle, Like yeah, why, like because
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 5: you know that that that that pulls it much tighter
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 5: into this into like death you know, death squad allegiance,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: especially using.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: The same airport they were using to fight the Sandinistas.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: Right, and especially knowing that Nimboa himself has all these ties. Nabo,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 5: the head of the president of Ector, has all of
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 5: these ties to drug trafficking like his He is the
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 5: scion of this banana export business, and these banana shipments
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: that his company keeps sending around the world, they keep
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 5: accidentally trafficking cocaine along with the bananas.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: Hate hate. When that happens, it's crazy, crazy, how that
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: just keeps happening.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 5: It's incredible. So this is our ally who then appears
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: to be out assassinating prosecutors who are looking into what's
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 5: going on with with this. So there's a there are
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 5: a lot of strings to pull on this, and I
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: hope that the Times and Posts keep looking at it.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: We certainly will. We're going to have more reporting on
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: this the next you know, a couple of days. It's
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 5: it's it's completely insane.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: It does seem a lot like Middle East black site
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: war on terror tactics.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 5: It's insane over over what like cocaine's everywhere, Like cocaine price,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 5: cocaine has not.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: Budged, Nope, has not had a single solitary impact. And
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: Camila also said, like, look, first of all, these were fishermen,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: so let's be clear about that. But also some of
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: the you know, low level drug runners that you're talking about,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: if some of them are forced to do it at gunpoint,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: others are forced to do it by economic desperation, and
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: you're sentencing them from the air to death even yeah, exactly.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: So of course it's not going to have an impact,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: and not that you know, that would be justifiable even
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: if it did. But this is an insane, monstrous policy
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: and for these individuals, very clear that they were completely innocent,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: just fishermen out doing their thing, trying to earn a living.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: One of the drone strikes happened, they were like on board,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: preparing their lunch, preparing their savice for lunch, and then
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know where they like waved at the drone
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: like oh hey, you know, like that's weird, and then this,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: you know, and then they're attacked. So that's what we're
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: talking about here in with regard to the prosecutor, just
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: so people know some of the details that first of all,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: we know that she was under a lot of pressure,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: that she had been they were trying to push her
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: to not explore all avenues of this, to only look
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: at this as a disappearance, not to look into the drones,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: and not to look into the torture allegations. We know
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: she was even being reassigned from this investigation, and then
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: in terms of the actual details, somehow mysteriously her police
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: security detail, because she's not the only Ecuadorian prosecutor that
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: has been murdered in recent years, her police detail just
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: disappeared when this motorcycle pulled up and killed her and
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: her sister too, by the way, So you don't have
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: you don't know definitively because she was investigating some other
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: sensitive things. But it sure looks very very suspicious given
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: that this is what she was working on, she was
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: receiving pressure on it, and then this is the way
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: that she is taken out. So yeah, it has been
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: noteworthy to me too, Ryan that the mainstream mount was
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: like there, that part of that doesn't get a mention
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: at all, completely like hands off of that, don't touch
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: it whatsoever. Don't seem to be delving into that aspect,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: at least not yet.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: Well, I am deploying drones to monitor LLCPO boxes in Virginia.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: So hopefully we'll get to the bottom of that going
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: to the source. But why don't we get to the
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: documentary American Doctors right now?
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: There's an extraordinary new film out that tracks the horrors
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: and the heroics of doctors who went to Gaza. American
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: doctors who went to Gaza. We've spoken to a number
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: of them here on the show, and the film takes
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: you into the day to day life and what they
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: were facing as Israel committed genocide in the Gaza strip.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: Joining us now to talk about that film is the
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: film's director, Posy Tang and also one of those doctors,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: Fair Ahmad. Welcome to both of you.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having us.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, So Griffin, if you want to go
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: ahead and play people the trailer here so they can
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: get a sense of what this film is all about.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 14: I want to take you through what Gaza looks like
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 14: when the hospital's totally Overlum, you're getting waves and patients.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 6: When you prioritize what do you have to treat them?
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 14: Got no pain medicine to give the people whose legs
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 14: have been blown off.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 6: Three surgeons while working on one little girl for what
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 6: two and a half hours and she's probably going to
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 6: lose her right leg, left leg, and the left.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 15: Art and she's starting to wake up like that's got
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 15: her warm. As a Jewish physician, I knew nothing about Cosson.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 15: Like most Americans. I thought everybody out here were nothing
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 15: but terrorist, because that's what I was told.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 11: I'm not Israeli, I'm not a Palestinian, I'm not Christian,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 11: I'm not Jewish, and I don't really have any connection
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 11: to it.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 5: As an American, I just don't want my government involved
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 5: in crimes.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 8: I'm a Palestinian.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 6: I'm not a spokesperson.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 16: I'm a human being.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 14: I'm a US doctor who wants to see babies, like
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 14: my babies not being killed anymore.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 15: What surprised me most was how the carnage was focused
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 15: on journalists, healthcare workers, and children.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 14: This bob, where was that That.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 9: Bomb hit the building.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 15: There was a fifteen year old kid ready for discharge
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 15: was incinerated.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 7: But if I had gone down and been changing that
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 7: kid's dressing, there would have been three bodies and I would.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: Have been one of them. When they hit a hospital.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: That's a deep tragedy that people will feel in the community.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: With the foreseeable future. We're just asking that hospitals not
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: be targeted.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 14: Why that conversation is derailed in the United States is
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 14: beyond me.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 9: We do not have to accept that as Americans.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 11: The United States could stop sending eject fuel bombs, all
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 11: sorts of weapons.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 6: This is a political problem. We need a political solution.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 15: We're a good part are Blue talk intelligently and I
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 15: talk about it's on us.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 6: To make sure that their stories are total.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 9: I could have got a phil of speed.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 14: I got rejected, and then I come back to the
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 14: United States and get detained by the Department of Homeland Security.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 15: This is what my tax dollars did, What your tax
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 15: dollars did, what my neighbor's tax dollars. Then they have
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 15: the right way to know the truth. For I was
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 15: the right one to listen to. He is about fairness
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 15: and he is about doing.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: The right thing.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 9: You know we're not dating, right. You don't have to
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 9: talk me out this much.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: Ago.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, extraordinary, Poe. Let me go ahead and start with you. Uh,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: what made you want to tell this story in particular?
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 17: You know, long before I became a documentary producer, I
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 17: was a journalist and I worked for all the mainstream entities.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 17: I was a journalist with the New York Times. My
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 17: first job, I was a camera person for the Associated Press.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 17: I was a documentary commissioner for Al Jazeera English. I
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 17: was a studio executive for ABC News Studios Disney and so,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 17: you know, a year into the genocide and seeing colleagues
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 17: that I respected, Al Jazeera colleagues in Gaza being targeted
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 17: and executed, it did something to me. And that's when
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 17: I realized I didn't want to work anymore as a
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 17: as a studio executive, and I wanted to to do something,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 17: you know, to try and help do something. But what
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 17: I didn't know until I found doctor Therama, doctor Mark Pelmutter,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 17: and doctor Faro Sidwa.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: And doctor tell us a little bit of your story.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: You're from born and raised Chicago. Your parents moved from
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: Palestine in the eighties. Tell us a little bit about
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: your journey and then what made you want to decide
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: to go to Gossen in particular.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 14: You know, I think a lot of who I am
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 14: is similar to many of the stories of Palestinians in
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 14: the diaspora. You know, during the First Intifault that my
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 14: parents decided to come to the United States, and being
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 14: born and raised in the United States gave us a
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 14: different perspective, a sort of different idea of what it
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 14: meant to be Palestinian, because we saw so much of
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 14: the dehumanization that was taking place outside of Palestine in
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 14: the Western world, in the US and in the UK,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 14: and so for much of my life it was always
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 14: about try to keep your head down, try to be
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 14: as successful and as professional as you can, and then
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 14: try to use whatever skills you develop and bring it
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 14: back to the homeland, bring it back to your people,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 14: be able to try to have some influence in that way.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 14: And so, you know, I think part of becoming a
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 14: physician had a lot to do with my father when
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 14: he was nine years old in Palestine in Jerusalem, developing
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 14: what we call rhumatic heart disease, which is a complication
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 14: from like a strep throat infection, and him not having
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 14: the access that he should have had, the right to
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 14: health that we think every single person on the planet
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 14: should be entitled to, and as a result of that,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 14: he had medical problems for his entire life and ultimately
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 14: died in twenty seventeen. I think a lot of that,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 14: you know, growing up in that mindset. Understanding that an
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 14: occupation and aparth type prevented him from getting the medical
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 14: care that he needed really pushed me to become a
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 14: doctor and try to serve my community.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 4: So hospitals obviously became a central propaganda battle, and we
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 4: were hearing in the corporate press constantly about what was
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 4: actually happening in hospitals. And both of you have unique
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: insight seen in real life the reality of what was
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: happening at the hospitals, and then also looked at the
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 4: media coverage referring to the hospitals is basically defecto military basis,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 4: and that there were tunnels under them in some cases,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 4: and there was an enormous amount of propaganda being spread
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: about hospitals. And this is a question for both of you,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 4: and I don't know who wants to take it first,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 4: but just about the experience of seeing reports versus seeing
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 4: the reality.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean, I think this is something that is
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 14: not unique to after October seventh, If you really look
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 14: back and see what's taken place in Palestine, Hospitals, clinics,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 14: healthcare workers have constantly been targeted and attacked, and it's
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 14: always some false premise it's always about getting a target
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 14: or some infrastructure that exists beneath this. As somebody that's
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 14: been through all parts of Palestine since two thousand and nine,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 14: I can tell you from my own lived experience, eyewitness testimony,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 14: and those of all of my colleagues that are visited,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 14: we've not seen a single shred of evidence to say
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 14: that these were anything more than health care facilities, and
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 14: that the doctors are anything more than outstanding health care providers,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 14: and the.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 6: Nurses as well.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 14: And you know, this is a trend that the Israeli
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 14: military continues to deploy in the West Bank currently. I
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 14: mean just two weeks ago when I was in the
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 14: West Bank, they rated a hospital in Neblis, trying to
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 14: go after whoever they were trying to go after. And
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 14: so for them, there is no red line when it
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 14: comes to hospitals, clinics, shelters and schools. It's a consistent
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 14: theme that you'll see.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 17: And to add to what doctor there is saying, it's
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 17: not like this confusion just came about in the past
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 17: two plus years since the beginning of the genocide. I mean,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 17: if you look at media as a whole in the
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 17: decades past and not just news media, but Hollywood example
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 17: for example, you begin to see like all these narratives
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 17: that have just been you know, it's just a certain
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 17: kind of narrative. And that's why fast forward to you know,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 17: the beginning of the genocide, You're starting to see all
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 17: this confusion. And so you know, I was a journalist
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 17: before I became a documentary producer, and I was also
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 17: a studio executive. And one thing, you know, wearing my
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 17: studio executive hat and thinking is I was thinking of
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 17: what kind of film I should make for an American audience.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 17: It's not lost on me that medical dramas do very well.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 17: You know, every year you have two or three medical dramas.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 17: I'm a big fan. I'm a big consumer of it.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 17: You know, there's like The Pit, there's Er Back in
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 17: the Day, there's House MD, there's Scrubs, There's Gray's Anatomy.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 17: So there was something about human mortality, doctors, hospitals that
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 17: Americans like to watch. And so my thinking was, all right,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 17: maybe this is an opportunity here, knowing that you know,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 17: we're gonna make the Pit differences. It's real, and it's
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 17: set in Gaza, and this is how we're going to
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 17: bring Palestine back to the American psyche, because people should
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 17: know what their taxpayers money is doing over there.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: Oh, you mentioned Hollywood, and they did have a Hollywood
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: specific question. Now I'm happy to see that south By
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 3: Southwest and Dance, if I'm correct, have both picked up
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: to play the film. But we've seen other films about Palestine,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: like The Voice of Hindrjab and other films like that
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: struggle to find distribution from Hollywood. I believe The Voice
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: of Hintry Job now has a distributor, but it's a
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: small distributor. What have those things? What have you faced
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: with trying to get this film out, especially as we
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: know that a lot of people in Hollywood, big and small,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: have been blacklisted in large parts of the community for
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: even posting a single Instagram story. I'm thinking about Melissa
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: Barrera with Scream, and I'm thinking about a lot of
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: other allegations of blacklist within Hollywood.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 4: Susan Sarandon.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 17: Susan Sarandon, you know, that's a really excellent question, Griffin.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 17: And you know, I'll say at the start of the film,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 17: and we were making it. First of all, we made
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 17: it in one year. Most films take about five years
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 17: to make.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: We made in one year.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 17: And at the start of the film, you know, my
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 17: thought was always like, all right, how is this going
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 17: to get distributed? But also at the same time, I
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 17: was like, you know what, We're just going to have
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 17: to make it. But what I didn't realize a year
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 17: into making the film and now we've been on the
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 17: road since we premiered at Sundance earlier this year, we've
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 17: been on the road for seven eight months now. I
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 17: didn't realize that how far society has shifted, and institutions
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 17: and studios and newsrooms and all of that. They are
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 17: only made out of people, and so when society shifts,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 17: they shift. Of course, it takes a lot longer for
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 17: it to trickle up to executives, but it is happening.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 17: And in terms of distribution, I will say this, you know,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 17: for a film like ours, I knew, as somebody with
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 17: some experience you know, in distribution, as a former executive
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 17: and a documentary commissioner, the path for us was never
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 17: going to be traditional and straightforward. We would have to
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 17: chart and carve our own way. And so very early on,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 17: I would say, six seven months into making the film,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 17: nobody wanted to back this film, all right, I had
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 17: put in my own money. Nobody wanted to back this film.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 17: Grandeurs were running away, Equity folks were running away, and
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 17: it took some very brave and courageous individuals and entities.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 17: And one of those entities is Watermelon Pictures, co founded
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 17: by Hamza Ali and Badia ad Ali, two Palestinian American
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 17: brothers based in Chicago. And Hamza Ali, who was also
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 17: an executive producer on the film, he saw the early
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 17: stages of the film, the early scenes, and he said,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 17: we're going to back you.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: We're going to support you.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 17: Of course, at that time, Watermelon Pictures wasn't a distributor.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 17: They only came in as EP and in association with
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 17: and so. But fast forward six months after when the
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 17: film was done and first of all, we premiered at Sundance.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 17: Never in my life would I have thought that, Wow,
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 17: we were actually going to get this chance to be catapult,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 17: for the issue, to be catapult.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: In this way.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: But we did.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 17: And now Watermelon Pictures came you know, you know, they
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 17: weren't the only offer that we had, but for me
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 17: as a director and as a producer, it was very
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 17: important for our team, to ride with those who was
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 17: there with us when it was the hardest. And I'll say,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 17: you know, they may have started small watermelon pictures and
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 17: now two years in, but I can see the vision
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 17: behind it, and so together we are going to ride this.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 17: And they're already like expanding their portfolio films and so
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 17: in the short time, I think they already have one
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 17: an Oscar nomination, They have shortlisted films, and their films
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 17: have gone beyond just Palestine. And so it is a
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 17: great honor to ride with them and for them to
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 17: back American Doctor, and we back them as well. So
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 17: that is the path forward in terms of distribution.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: That's very hopeful. Doctor. I wanted to connect something we
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: saw recently with what you experienced on the ground in Gaza. Griffin,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: if you could pull up this software. This is an
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: Oracle executive who is proudly bragging about the quote unquote
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: scary technology that they gave to the IDF to deploy
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: in Gaza. Let's go ahead and take a listen to us.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 16: You hit our website in an Arab country and you
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 16: saw your entire screen filled with an Israeli flag which
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 16: said not only we stand with Israel, we stand with
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 16: our employees in Israel, we stand with the people of Israel.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 16: We stand with the military establishment of Israel. There's a
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 16: few things that we did that I really can't talk about,
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 16: to be honest, because to advance the agenda for the
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 16: Israeli military. But our teams did a lot. We have
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 16: some really profoundly scary technology at Oracle, and we wanted
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 16: to make sure that it was available for the effort.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 16: Let's just say that, Okay, I was in the Curia,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 16: and I go in and I meet with everyone you'd
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 16: imagine I meet with, and on my way out, I
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 16: run into I don't know five of my team who
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 16: are all in uniform working, and to be honest with you,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 16: it's like my proudest moment.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean, that's pretty disgusting. I mean, this is
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 14: just sort of the rhetoric that exists anytime you're talking
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 14: about out of Muslims or Palestinians, this sort of they're
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 14: like these guinea pigs where you can test new technology.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 14: And something that we saw on Gaza that I think
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 14: also contradicts what she says is you saw the Israeli
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 14: military willfully sort of bomb civilian infrastructure and devastate the
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 14: area indiscriminately. I mean, we see if you look at
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 14: satellite imagery and you compare the studies that have emerged,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 14: for example, out of North Gaza, the Israeli military was
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 14: not sophisticated at all with their behavior and the way
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 14: that they were bombing infrastructure and destroying the strawberry fields.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 14: And then on top of that, you would see really
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 14: deliberate attacks against folks that the Israeli military who was
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 14: using their technology for that. If you actually went one
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 14: layer behind that, if you just dug in a little deeper,
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 14: you found that suddenly they were just targeting men between
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 14: the ages of fifteen and sixty, and then somehow saying hey,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 14: these are military targets. They're just doing that based on
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 14: some of the technology they were using. Oh they're moving
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 14: from this place to that place. Maybe there's a chance
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 14: that this person could be affiliated with this group, Let's
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 14: go ahead and kill them. That sort of extra judicial
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 14: assassinations were taking place all over the Gaza strip. And
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 14: I think finally, one last thing I will say, given
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 14: that we're approaching the one year anniversary of the assassination
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 14: of Nsis Shadif and his colleagues, Muhammed Greek and the
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 14: other journalists that were in the tent outside of Shifa Hospital.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 14: You know, ENAs really, to me is one of the
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 14: most disgusting acts that the Israeli military has committed over
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 14: the last two years. And it's because he repeatedly, if
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 14: you just go to his Twitter feed or his ex
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 14: feed right now, repeatedly called on the world saying I
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 14: am being harassed by them, I am being threatened by
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 14: the Israeli military, and this is where I am. And
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 14: they knew exactly where he was, and they still decided
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 14: to go ahead and assassinate him, almost as if saying,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 14: what are you going to do about it? What's the
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 14: world going to do about it?
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 17: And it's not only over there, like this technology is
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 17: also being used over here, you know, And so it's
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 17: really important to not for our for in the making
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 17: of the film, I didn't want people to think that
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 17: is happening in Palestine, in Gaza, in the West Bank
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 17: is so far away. It's here and it has already
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 17: affected Americans. So if we should not only stand up
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 17: to fight for the living over over there, because we
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 17: are responsible for it, but we should fight for ourselves
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 17: in the United states.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 5: I just wanted to put in a plug for watermelon too.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 5: They also have a streaming service, Watermelon Plus, which I
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 5: think it's like nine dollars a month.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 6: It's great. So you check there.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 5: You know, that's how you can get all of their
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 5: back catalog. I was, actually, this is it's an interesting coincidence.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 5: I know that those guys and about a maybe a
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 5: year ago or so, I was saying, you know, what
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 5: I think the public would really appreciate is like a
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 5: pit but in take in Gaza, but a drama. I mean,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 5: the the fact that you were able to do a
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 5: documentary is absolutely incredible. But I also think, and I'm
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 5: curious if you've gotten any interest from people saying we
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 5: should do a fictionalized drama.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 6: That is, you know the way that the pit is said.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 5: In Pittsburgh that runs, you know, that begins before the
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 5: genocide and then and then just follows the doctors both
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 5: Kalcinian and American and West and other and others who
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 5: come in and out and just follows them for several years.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 5: Just the day and day and the light very precisely
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 5: the same basically as a documentary. But you know, in
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 5: a serialized form have you gotten any interest in that.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 5: Is that or is it there's Is we just not
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 5: in a world where that's like remotely possible.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: Oh, I think it's.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 17: Very possible, and in fact that's what flowed it to
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 17: me before. But to speaking to what you just said, Ryan,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 17: that's why, that's how, that's why the film is the
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 17: way it is, even though it is true, it is real,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 17: it's not fiction, but the way it's made, the cinema
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 17: verity and aspect of it, it is like a drama.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 17: And because you know, I think I'm thinking of my self,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 17: we're having been a journalist and seen you know, all
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 17: these also having worked on so many sit down interviews
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 17: and in films with archival footage, I just wanted our
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 17: audiences to be in the world of the doctors and
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 17: so you just move with them as though, you know,
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 17: as though you're just a fly on the wall. And
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 17: I have learned so much as a filmmaker, you know,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 17: from doctor Therahmah, doctor Farocid, doctor Mark Pemotter, very very
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 17: different doctors, and so I just wanted our audiences and
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 17: Americans to be able to feel close to them. And
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 17: because they were going into Gaza to bring that home
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 17: and that to show that doctors there, healthcare workers there,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 17: they're no different from the doctors and healthcare workers here there.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 17: And I we were just talking this morning the doctor's banter,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 17: So it's basically Ryan I was say, not to be crass,
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 17: but it's all the elements of a scripted entertainment film,
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 17: but it's real.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 3: There. I was struck by a moment in the trailer
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: where a bomb hits the hospital and one of the
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: doctor says, that could have been me and one of
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: the bodies. There was there ever a moment where you
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: felt like you might be killed.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 10: You know.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 14: I think when I was there at Nauset Hospital in
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 14: early twenty twenty four, that was the first time these
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 14: Raelian military surrounded that hospital. And I remember I was
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 14: with a couple of my colleagues and we were watching
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 14: the tanks from outside the window and they were shelling
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 14: so ferociously that night. I mean, it was so violent.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 14: The hospital was shaking, and the emergency department started to
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 14: fill up with smoke, and you saw so many of
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 14: the displaced people because that's where they go to the
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 14: hospitals to shelter inside and around the hospitals. You started
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 14: watching them in the middle of the night, pick up
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 14: their stuff and try to leave to go to safety.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 14: And I think it was that moment where I was like, Okay,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 14: there is no there's a chance here that this could
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 14: this hospital could go up in flames and all of
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 14: us inside of it could be gone. I think one
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 14: thing I will say is I think there's been and
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 14: this is something that really bothers me coming back. There
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 14: has not been an international healthcare worker that has been
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 14: killed in the two and a half years, but there's
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 14: been seventeen hundred Palestinian healthcare workers that have been slaughtered
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 14: by the Israeli military. And I think again, it tells
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 14: you that there was this intentional targeting of the Palestinian
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 14: healthcare workforce, and it was again that sort of racism
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 14: that exists that if I am an American doctor of
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 14: British and I can come in, I'm sort of guaranteed
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 14: this safety just looking at what's taking place. But if
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 14: I happened to be Palestinian, there's a real chance that
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 14: there's a non zero chance that I may be killed
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 14: by the Israeli military.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: And so, doctor you were you detained by a homeland
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: security on the way back. Can you tell us about
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: that and also just what it has been like, what
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: it was like getting back and you know, after everything
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: you saw on experience and then to go back to
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: you know, a hospital and functioning environment where this is
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: a side note to most people.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 14: So, actually this is an interesting piece because it kind
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 14: of compares the two different administrations. To be honest with you,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 14: is under the Biden administration, I had come back and
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 14: I had stopped in Turkey and there was they had
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 14: already put the quad essays on my boarding pass, which
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 14: suggested that I would have to go through a secondary
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 14: specialized screening process whatever it stands for, just the classic
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 14: racist Department of Homeland Security stuff. And I remember we
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 14: had appealed this while I was in transit with an
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 14: Office of Civil Rights through the DHS, saying this was
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 14: a violation of my civil rights. I'm an American citizen.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 14: This is a secondary screening that's racist in nature, and
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 14: we kind of had a back and forth at that time.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 14: The second time I had come back after being rejected,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 14: I didn't even make it inside of Gaza. I land
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 14: in O'Hare Airport and you get this X on the
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 14: screen when they screen your face, and you go to
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 14: a room and you're being sort of interrogated by this
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 14: you know, officer. I just want to kind of give
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 14: you a couple of the things that I was asked,
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 14: just to show you how absurd some of these questions are.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 14: Was this this gentleman is sitting there in Chicago asking me,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 14: did you treat any Hamas fighters? Did you give them
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 14: any medicine? Did you interact with them? And you know,
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 14: I had to be very clear with them. I said,
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 14: you know, the Israeli military doesn't believe even us being
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 14: able to treat anybody that comes through hospital doors. You
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 14: know that they don't believe in that sort of thing.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 14: And he's trying to almost entrap you because he goes, well,
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 14: you know, I served as a medic in Iraq.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 3: Doesn't matter who came in. I'm gonna you know, I'll
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: treat him.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 12: Right.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 3: You would do the same thing, like.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 14: No, no, guy, like that's not you know, that's not
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 14: what happened here, That's not what we're going Just so
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 14: he could under you know, knowing that he's just trying
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 14: to get you to say something.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 3: And then there was a lot of questions about.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 14: How much money I took where I spent that money,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 14: who I donate to here in the United States? Like
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 14: what are the nonprofits that I donate to?
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 6: Where I work?
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 14: My boss's phone number, Just all sorts of all sorts
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 14: of questions that make you feel like a criminal. You're like, hey,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 14: you know, I just I was trying to go in
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 14: there and work as a doctor, you know, And that's
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 14: just kind of that profiling that's at play here. And
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 14: you know when that happened in the film, I when
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 14: you know, I get rejected. I've been rejected five consecutive
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 14: times from going into Gaza. I actually was trying to
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 14: avoid Poe and wanted to kind of step away from
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 14: the movie. I said, you know, what's the point. I
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 14: can't even get into gaza. Why would you even want
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 14: to follow me? And she felt like it was an
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 14: important part of like just the access issues that exist.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 6: In terms of Palestine. It's one of the most.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 14: Difficult places to access, whether you're a humanitarian journalist, you know,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 14: first respect whatever it is, it's incredibly hard to access there.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 14: And you know, eventually she was able to kind of
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 14: insist on moving forward, and I'm very appreciative of that
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 14: because I think for our community, the Palestinian diaspora. I
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 14: think it's so much of the pain that we're experiencing,
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 14: that survivor's guilt of like we're so far away, we're
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 14: so privileged, we have all of these opportunities, and we're
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 14: not able to do anything for our.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 9: People, you know.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 17: And then I'll to add to what doctor Thayer is saying.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 17: You know, it was not lost on me even in
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 17: the early beginning and inception of the film, on who
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 17: gets to say what, and who gets to do what,
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 17: and whose word gets to go further, who gets to
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 17: go into gaza. You know, I'm a woman, I'm a
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 17: person of color, I'm barely five feet you know, so
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 17: I understand it on a certain level, but I also
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 17: know I will never understand to the extent of what
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 17: their and the Palestinian community are going through. And so
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 17: it was sort of like, Okay, we have these three doctors. Now,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 17: they are able to reach out to different communities, They're
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 17: able to say different things, and they are very, very different,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 17: and what are the lessons that we can learn from
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 17: them individually and also when they work together collectively? And
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 17: that has always been the hope where, you know, because
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 17: I'll be honest with you all. A year into the genocide,
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 17: and I live in New York. I work, and as
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 17: we all do, we work and we live in different
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 17: communities with different people. And for me, I had lost
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 17: the ability to speak my mind and to speak my
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 17: mind and communicate effectively. And when I found their Mark
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 17: and Farose, I felt, wow, if this can help me,
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 17: maybe it can help Americans and how to deal with
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 17: what is happening in Gaza.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 3: Well, doctor their director po, thank you so much for
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: making this film. More grateful that you made it. Where
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 3: can people watch this movie right now if they want to?
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 3: Can they yet?
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 14: Yes?
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 4: They can.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 17: And you know, when we first made the film, Little
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 17: I did not think at all it would be possible
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 17: for our film to get distributed. But we had early
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 17: access screenings on Tuesday in New York and tonight tonight
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 17: is going to be our opening theatrically at the Angelica,
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 17: and then we go to La we go to San Francisco,
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 17: we go to Chicago, we go to Ohi, we go
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 17: to Santa Barbara, and we go to seventy seven theaters
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 17: across US and Canada. And that's because of Watermelon Pictures,
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 17: which backed our film from the very beginning, and we
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 17: couldn't be more excited to bring the message of the
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 17: doctors and also their colleagues that they had to leave
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 17: behind in Gaza to all of the United States.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 3: Well, we'll include a link in the description to all
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 3: the cities that it will be playing in. I'll definitely
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 3: be there for the LA screening, so I hope to
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 3: see you guys in person, and thank you so much
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 3: for joining us today.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 6: Thank you all, Thank you so much.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 3: Alrighty, let's end another great Friday episode with my favorite
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 3: part of the show, where you guys ask us anything.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 3: Let's start with a question about the John Stewart interview
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 3: that occurred this week that got everyone talking and was
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 3: also the inciting incident for our new public Twitter account
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 3: at Breaking Points X where you can get it. Did
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: there clips from the show. This is from Raphael Dimion, Hello, crew.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 3: In the Stewart interview, maya kulpa for voting for Trump
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 3: was discussed, and often Trump's rise gets attributed to figures
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 3: like Tucker Rogen, et cetera. But that doesn't But doesn't
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 3: that deny the Left agency through things like Russia Gate
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 3: and the unwarranted, mass illegal migration under Biden, which fueled
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 3: Trump's populist energy and embedded his anti establishment status.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know who you're talking to, because
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: I mean this is I was a huge critic of
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: Russia Gates, So I don't know. I just always find this. Yes,
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: it's important to look at the entire context, but to
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: be like you, people were too oppositional in your views,
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: and so it's your fault that Trump actually came back.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think first we need to deal
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: with the people who actually enabled his return, ran cover
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: for him, whitewashed him, or continue to support him. Are
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: directly in the administration. You know, that would be the
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: place to start. But obviously I have my critique of
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: the Democratic Party, which I talk about all the time,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: which is that I think that their status quo approach
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: to politics has been insufficient to deal with fascism. So yes,
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: on that front, but there's a you know, the primary
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: responsibility still needs to lie with the people who were
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: actively involved in supporting this person.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 4: I would say if you compare the two midterm cycles
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 4: twenty eighteen, in the cycle, what you see is a
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 4: movement in the Democratic Party to do something different than
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 4: what I think in the kind of lesser than two
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 4: evil voting structure that a lot of Americans. I mean,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 4: we have a record level of people identifying as independence
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 4: now according to Gallup. I mean, you just have more
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 4: swing voters on the table, and so I think a
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 4: lot of people for them. It comes down to who's
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 4: the lesser of two evils. Like if you look at Saga,
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 4: for example, Sager was never somebody who is like Donald
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 4: Trump is a genius. He is so handsome and brilliant
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 4: and beautiful. It's always just like well, I think Kamala
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 4: Harris was out there saying iron was the biggest threat
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 4: and that sort of thing. So anyway, without getting too
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 4: much into that, I think the movement is much smarter
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 4: now on the left. It's not Trump Russia like it
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 4: was twenty eighteen. That was an election that was about
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 4: Russia and healthcare and like the cheetoh Jesus Orange man,
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 4: like Rick Wilson cringe ms NBC weirdness and healthcare. But
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 4: now it's really not about Trump at all, and that
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 4: I think has been much smarter on the left.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 3: All Right, This next one comes from Alex Barbella for Emily.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 3: Can you talk about your thoughts on tallar Rico's relationship
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 3: with Christianity and how that might impact the election. And
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 3: there's also about some polling showing him like winning by
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 3: a point or two. Yeah, I mean, no, we don't
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 3: trust polls anymore.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 4: He's running a smart campaign. I still think it's a
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 4: long shot. I'm not saying it's impossible. I think it's
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 4: a long shot. But he's way up on the polls
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 4: compared to where Betto was and Ted Cruz. If you're
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 4: looking at the polling averages, Betto was actually never beating Cruise,
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 4: and the polling averagers have tall Rico up. So yeah, man,
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 4: I could talk a lot about tall Rico's relationship with Christianity.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 4: I think it actually might be a problem for him
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 4: with some Hispanic voters and like the Real Grand Valley,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 4: because it comes across as well honestly, to use a
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 4: cheap phrase, woke like for lack of a better word,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 4: And that's what turned a lot of those Hispanic men
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 4: in the Real Grand Valley away from the Democratic Party,
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 4: even though they had previously been supporting them. So I
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 4: don't know. At the same time, it's a it's gonna
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 4: be We've seen really high democratic based turnout in these primaries,
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 4: which probably bides well structurally for places like Texas for
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 4: Democrats in places like Texas in November. So I can
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 4: also talk to you about Ken Paxton's relationship with Christianity,
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 4: which is pretty bad too.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: Well. I actually wanted to put to ask you about
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: that because it's one thing, Sagar, and we're talking about
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: a bit yesterday. You know, you've got Paxton who cheated
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: on his wife. They got divorced on biblical grounds, and
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: not only that, but his girlfriend he got her a
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: job with like a top donor, and you know they're
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: peer to, so they're peer to. Have been a mingling
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: of the professional and the personal there for all of
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: those who want to be like, ah, that's his personal life.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: Who cares he because there was a you know, an
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: intermingling of taxpayer dollars in political position, et cetera. That
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: means that, yes, it does. He was impeached in the
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: House by Republicans, was not convicted in the Senate, though
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: there was that was in doubt for quite a while.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: And you've got the specter of you know, the Republican Party.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: He's out there portraying himself, family man family values, christian
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. So I'm wondering how the contrast
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: of that versus tall Rico is always very comfortable talking
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: about his faith and really makes that a center of
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: his politics. If that contrast does actually work out pretty
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: well for tall Rico.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it might. I mean I think it's a really
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 4: interesting thing where you have a Biden style. Remember, like
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 4: Biden in twenty twenty was running on decency and civility
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 4: and restoring norms, and then you had him up against
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 4: the Republican candidate Trump, who was just openly like screw
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 4: it whatever, I'm going to call John McCain a like
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 4: whatever you anyway, that was twenty sixty. But the point
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 4: Remancy's Donald Trump, and he was running against the left
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 4: saying they're the candidate on the left saying that I
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 4: want to restore decency and civility and norms. And so
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 4: I actually think it's kind of similar to that where
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 4: you have the person on the top of the Democratic
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 4: ticket making that argument. And the problem is Ken Paxson
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 4: isn't Trump. Ken Paxon tries to pretend that he is
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 4: like the decent Christian candidate, and Trump only ever gives
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 4: lip service to that type of thing. So I think
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 4: it's a very interesting dynamic.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 3: Very nice, And we'll end with this question from John Yoder.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 3: This is one's kind of for me. How does booking
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 3: a guest work? Do they get paid? Do you have
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 3: a green room? Do you have to provide basic amenities
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 3: of food and drinks? Just some inside baseball curiosity. Well,
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 3: you know we do have We do have great coffee
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 3: in the studio. We do not pay our guests, you know,
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 3: paid in exposure, classic entertainment industry trope. But you know,
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 3: this remind this question reminds me of one that we
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 3: were all laughing about just earlier this week, because some
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 3: guests do require a little bit more. We had Chris
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 3: Matthews on the show about maybe like two or three
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 3: years ago now, and they had a debate. And you know,
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 3: Chris is old school, you know, he's from a very
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: different time in news media. So he needed us to
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 3: send him a car to pick him up from his
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 3: home and bring him to the studio, and then he
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 3: needed a car to go home. Now, as I sent
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 3: him off in his car, about half an hour later,
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 3: I get this message from Uber Black saying Hey, your
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 3: car has been stopped for a really really long time
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 3: on the side of the road. Is everything okay? I
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 3: call the uber and the uber is like, oh, he's
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 3: making me do his errands. He's we're doing dry cleaning now.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 3: So everyone has different levels of amenities that they require.
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 4: Based on that's in his defense, that was standard behavior
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 4: for cable news hosts.
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: You probably note, well, I mean not this cable news host,
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: but in general, yes, in general, yes, and certainly for
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: a star like Chris Matthews exactly classic. Yeah, we will,
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: like if one of our guests asked for a car,
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: will typically provide that there's no hair and makeup, you're
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: on your own.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 4: There's no greener either. Yeah, yeah, that.
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: Is actually a little bit oger. Usually we like stick
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: people kind of in like the kitchen. We're ready for them.
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: So it's not you know, it's it's we do our
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: best to make our guests feel welcome and comfortable. But
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: there are relatively limited amenities. Energy drinks, coffee, diet cokes,
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: those are all available, certainly.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 4: The floor of food pantry if you want if you
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 4: want food, and you just look down if you're sitting
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 4: at the desk, Ryan and Crystal in particular, you.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: Are guilty food pantry on the ground.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 4: It's not in the show.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's a long show. By the end, my stomach
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: is growling, my brain is shutting down. I need some
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: quick We're both trail mixed people, which I feel like
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: fits politically with us too.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 4: Yes, but you work out before the show, which means
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 4: you're entitled to be hungry.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Emily. That's you're allowed. I guess all allow, but.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 3: This is but I think all our brains are shutting
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 3: down right now.
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 4: Ryan will literally go to Costco and bring a big
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 4: bag of Costco trail mix and then just put it
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 4: on the ground.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, and I'm very excited when there's a new edition.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: Yes, and on election on live stream nights, Ryan and
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 3: Emily always bring a few beers into the studio as well.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: Sorry participates though.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 3: Yes, Emily, Emily supplies, so does Griffin.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 4: So does Griffin.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 3: It's a long night, so that's going to do it
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 3: for us as our brains are shutting down after our
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 3: two hour shows Friday. Happy to be back on Fridays,
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 3: and uh, we'll cover anything that happens over the weekend
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 3: and if not, we'll see you all on Monday. Have
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 3: a good weekend. Bye bye,