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Sixth Street's AUM Gobbling & SF's Basis Bets · The Promote Podcast

• Will Krasne (00:00) This week we saw another big merger and it sort of reminded me of the great movie Kindergarten Cop. Where he asked his class, who is your daddy? What does he do? In this case, it's global fund allocators and aggregate these streams. Arnold (00:07) Not a tumor. and I don't know how to react to that. What am I supposed to say? Sixth Street's the daddy. L &M's the kid. Yep. Bearings is the daddy. Artemis is the kid. M'Buddla's the daddy. And Fortress is the kid. Yes. Get it? Okay, fair. Welcome back to the Promote Podcast, your insider guide to the money and mania of the CRE markets. Katan and Will here as usual. Will Krasne (00:47) This week we have another crowded docket because the world keeps turning. But two deals that we wanted to highlight that really touch on themes that have been big players in the Promote Cinematic Universe, which I'm definitely trying to make stick. Hiten Samtani (01:01) You've already made it a thing, I'm telling you. Will Krasne (01:03) The first is the continuing aggregation of smaller or mid sized investment firms by the global mega funds. And then also the continued revitalization and frankly that revitalization. See what I did there. love it. Of San Francisco with. Hiten Samtani (01:20) Greg Flynn, one of your classic men with deep pockets. Will Krasne (01:22) Yes, and those pockets are filled with hot sauce from Applebee's. Hiten Samtani (01:27) Surprise Supreme, Nacho Supreme. And then finally, the Kushner family, they basically got EB-5 approval for that once very controversial project in Jersey City. And, get this, it's not even a classic EB-5 visa approval, it's financializing the EB-5. So you're basically, now you can finance the American Dream. Will Krasne (01:47) one could argue that financing wasn't the American dream. Hiten Samtani (01:49) This is closer to the pure kind of ideal of America if you think about it. Will Krasne (01:53) I believe in America. And I believe in financing. Hiten Samtani (02:02) way I think about it a lot now is that AUM gobbling is all the rage. To stay relevant, you just kind of have to keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And we're seeing this play out across the real estate landscape, across asset classes. Will Krasne (02:14) Agreed. And frankly, it's something that I think is going to be a sea change in how capital is going to be allocated moving forward, because you had all of these firms, which you could have one big programmatic JV and that could drive a company for decades. You had one of the big pension funds, one of the big sovereigns, but now a lot with a lot of the stress in office, a lot of the stress in hotel, retail, and what have you. And also of course, Sunbelt Multi, as I'm obligated to say on this podcast. Right. Allocators seem to want to be out of the single stock picking game, so to speak. So if you pick an operator and they just do office and office goes sideways, mean, you as the allocator are making an investment decision which opens you up to a lot of potential criticism and job insecurity. Hiten Samtani (03:01) Unless you're Canadian pension fund where you can post negative returns and very few consequences. Will Krasne (03:06) CDP has a new head and she was explicitly and said that we're getting away from being ⁓ Operators and we're getting back into being just investors and picking funds, right? And what's funny is that this is almost like this is a real inside baseball Hiten Samtani (03:20) That's what we love here. Well, come on. This is the promote podcast. This isn't no cap. Will Krasne (03:23) It's almost like apartment renovation. you walk into an apartment complex, you can tell when it was last renovated by like what color the cabinets are. Cause it always just goes back. It's very cyclical. And frankly, this is the same thing here where it was really hard when I first started private equity. Like that model was a little bit more challenged because there's a lot of pushback from LPs about paying a double promote. So paying a promote to the private equity firm and then the private equity firm paying a promote on the deal level to a joint venture partner and operating partner. And now people are like, you know what's great? Double promotes. Because it means that if I'm putting stuff into a fund, I'm not making the investment decision. I'm picking the horse. And at the end of the day, you can just say the horse was lame. And who knew? So all this capital is not going to go into sharpshooters at the allocator level. It's going to go into the mega funds, which then have all of these branches underneath it. Hiten Samtani (04:15) Yeah, so they will throw money into all these different strategies, different operators, right? And that's why we're talking today. Will Krasne (04:21) Do want to be the Sandy Weil full supermarket of options? Hiten Samtani (04:25) In this case, I'm missing having a platform that focuses on affordable housing. So I'm just gonna go buy into one. Will Krasne (04:31) a lot easier than having to go build it yourself. again, Comparato talked about it where they're buying this agency license because it's really hard to spin up that business. Hiten Samtani (04:39) Well, he had a great line about like sitting down with David Brickman, CEO of Freddie Mac at the time and saying, how do we get one of these licenses? And Brickman just laughs at him. We're basically talking about modes. Will Krasne (04:48) Yeah, it's the same thing here. It's like, want a big, you know, feed development business for affordable housing. Cool. Like you can go try to start that and it'll take forever and you'll have to hire a million people and it'll be very execution dependent. Or you can just go buy one. Hiten Samtani (05:03) You can just go buy one. I think even if you started it, even if you had the capital and the patience to go ahead and try to break your brain on this kind of thing, there's another component here. I call it juice. To do affordable housing, you need to have immense juice. You need to be like connected up the wazoo with leaders in that city or state. And I think Ron Mollis is one of the most connected men in New York. LNM is one of the premier affordable housing players in, at least in New York, they own 15,000 units across kind of the five borrows, 80 % of them are income restricted. And it's a very particular game, right? We talked about this a little bit in an earlier episode about the related CPC partnership to take over the signature bank portfolio via the debt. To understand these places and to understand kind of the stakeholders to make these deals work is incredibly complicated. There's a lot of alpha in knowing that process. Will Krasne (05:57) Absolutely. There's a great Twitter account, Reset Basis, Marlo Stanfield, who talks about this. And it's not like you can just show up and start building affordable housing. It takes, as you said, a lot of juice, but also just a lot of know-how. I mean, there's so many programs, they're always shifting. You look at the cap stacks for these things and... Hiten Samtani (06:16) It's almost like death by complexity, right? Like you have to, the pain tolerance, we've talked about it with Barnett, this is its own kind of rite of passage where like, we're gonna throw all these regulatory hoops at you, right? And you're gonna have to figure it out. Will Krasne (06:31) Absolutely. You look at the cap stack and there's like nine different sources of funding here. I mean, it's each one of them has their own process. So it's, it's not something you can just step into off the street. And so you're very interesting that to see sixth street, you know, get into this space. Hiten Samtani (06:47) I see what you did there. Nice. So can we cook a little bit on Sixth Street? So the guy running point on this deal is interesting. So we're talking about Marcus Alvarado. Will Krasne (06:55) Yeah, he was at Starwood for a long time, very successful there, then went over to Cadre. God. Hiten Samtani (07:02) Did he join Ryan Williams in the 150 pushups, 150 sit-ups and five mile run every day? Will Krasne (07:07) Honestly, that might have been why he didn't last as long and went over to safehold and then ended up taking the job to serve run real estate at 6th Street and 6th Street, know, which was the credit arm of TPG and they spun out real estate had been a little bit of a blind spot and so you can't do better than hiring someone of Marcos's caliber who's worked at the highest levels of private equity ran a public company Hiten Samtani (07:31) chorus deal ⁓ you've talked about in a previous episode as being hella lucrative. Will Krasne (07:35) That deal was tremendously successful for, for startup capital and a lot of complexity. So if you're six street, you know, that's, this is the type of guy that can. You know, build your real estate business. Hiten Samtani (07:46) What's attractive here? So affordable housing, big business, pretty moaty as we've just said. How do you make money in this business? Will Krasne (07:54) The fee streams here can be really lucrative if you are a player at scale, because you get these development fees or developer fees for each of these projects. And so if you're doing this at scale, it's just, you know, dev fees coming in left and right. And that's almost more important than the deal's actual cash flows. And so you just keep putting these things together and you basically have an op co that's generating a ton of email. I see. As opposed to relying on the property cash flows to generate your Hiten Samtani (08:28) We've talked before about how development is such a painful game because there's so much uncertainty before you kind of hit the gravy, right? That's been one of the themes of this podcast. This seems like the opposite, like you're making money as you go. Will Krasne (08:42) You're making the fees up front. And again, it's not like you can just show up and say, hi, I'm an affordable housing developer, pay me a $3 million developer fee. Like it takes a lot to get there. But if you have the machine built and you can supply it with capital, then these things can be incredibly lucrative. Hiten Samtani (08:59) Steve Ross parlayed the affordable housing game into this mega empire and now he owns the dolphins and sold a stake and is doing quite well for himself. Will Krasne (09:08) I'd say he's doing extremely well for himself. And this is what 15,000 units now and 80 % of income restricted, as you said, mostly in New York. So maybe you take this national and in a bigger way than they already have with six streets, global region, sort of unlimited deep pockets. And it could be a really amazing, predictable fee stream, which again is sort of the Holy grail of these types of businesses is you want to have predictable earnings, not the lumpy promote. which is sometimes hard to come by. Hiten Samtani (09:44) One of the things that I think about when we're thinking about scaling a business like this nationally is, again, the political juice. Ron Mollis was so deeply entrenched in the New York City power politics. There's a legendary exchange in one of these crane stories where he's talking with then deputy mayor Alicia Glenn, and she says, she's flying back from Shanghai, and she writes him that she was, quote, dying for a hamburger and a bottle of Montrachet. Will Krasne (10:09) barely know what Montreux is. Hiten Samtani (10:12) It's a semi-decent line, I don't know. But you'd have to develop those kinds of relationships in markets that you might not have the name recognition. There are like complications to, even though it's a giant platform in New York, go to Chicago, whole different landscape of players, whole different set of problems, right? So there's so many things to navigate. So zooming out, we're seeing L Sixth Street. It is a big deal, a very consequential one, but I think it's part of this broader wave of real estate &A that we're seeing all over the place. Bearings and Debbie Harmon's firm Artemis, right? Blue Owl IPI was recently, Aries, GLP's ⁓ platform. And so this is all kind of AUM chasing and you need to keep getting bigger and bigger. Fortress' co-CEO, Drew McKnight, basically explicitly said this and he said the following, for us to compete with larger firms like Aries, Apollo and Sixth Street, we need to continue to grow assets because if we don't, then we'll be less relevant. And we've talked. Previously about Apollo, the kind of the innovation they found by unlocking the insurance space to grow their assets and then have more ⁓ capital to make bets. Will Krasne (11:20) The worst place to be in anything almost is in the middle. And if you're a firm, frankly, like Fortress, like you're in the middle. If you're a firm like Artemis, like you're in the middle. And the capital is going to go to the biggest firms with the biggest brand names that offer the least amount of career risk. So I think there's really two ways to go. The one is you get bigger, you get bought, or you go the other way, you become an absolute sharp shooter and you put together these assets for these firms. at scale that's big enough for them. Hiten Samtani (11:51) You talked about the capital kind of flowing to the very top and we've seen, it was like a, don't have the stat in front of me now, but the six largest private equity shops have raised like an overwhelming share of the capital in these spaces. Like they've basically taken a bigger and bigger slice of the pie each year in the last five, 10 years. Will Krasne (12:10) That's absolutely been the case. It's going to continue to be the case. And there are firms that you would be shocked that couldn't raise capital, that are having trouble raising capital. And there are a number of funds that are going to be smaller than their last one. There are a number of firms that aren't going to be able to raise the next fund. There are firms specifically that are out of business right now. And they're just sort of a zombie. Hiten Samtani (12:31) Meanwhile, Blackstone's raising like their $30 billion fund, Brookfield's raising a $16 billion fund, it kind of keeps coming. Will Krasne (12:37) Right. That money is going to go somewhere and you have to have the full poo poo platter available for folks to be attractive. Because again, after the carnage we've seen in specific asset classes over the last five years, people just do not want to take single sector or single market risk. Hiten Samtani (13:02) San Francisco is one of those places where if you grew up outside the US like I did, you have this incredibly romantic view of it, right? It really meant something for the longest time. Will Krasne (13:12) You just stop saying that you watched Basington's Stig the thousand times when you were a kid. Maybe I was just guessing. Hiten Samtani (13:16) I've seen it way too many times. That's why I'm as messed up as I am. But you and I talked a couple of weeks ago about New Bond and the big hotel bet with the Hilton, the mega Hiltons there. you kind of find yourself rooting for San Francisco, kind of like New York. It's nice to see people actually betting on the city again. Will Krasne (13:36) think about San Francisco, it's the cradle of so much innovation that has driven the way we live today for better for worse, guess. ⁓ And it felt like it couldn't get out of its own way. The last five years, there have been so many negative headlines. And frankly, a lot of times these headlines are sensationalized. They were not about San Francisco. Like it really was awful. Like if you were on the ground there, like it was not great. Hiten Samtani (13:55) And I'm not an alarmist, I'm a huge city guy. I want the best for all these places, but it was terrible. Will Krasne (14:00) ⁓ it was not good. It was very, very bad. Yeah. And they've got a new mayor and he is again, figuring out that you just got to be the, you got to make your layups. Hiten Samtani (14:12) You gotta crack some skulls, you gotta clean the streets and everything else will come. Will Krasne (14:15) There's like nine people in San Francisco who matter and so if you just do the thing like gets makes them happy it makes everything easier Hiten Samtani (14:22) Well, one of the people who matters is a guy we're gonna talk about, the restaurant mogul, Greg Flynn. You know, I never know if there's an end in that word, so I basically stopped using it. But Flynn has, I think he owns like thousands of Applebee's, Taco Bell's, he's a king of fast food. Will Krasne (14:27) believe they call him Restraptory. Yeah, he is one of the largest franchise owners in the world, but he also has a very large real estate portfolio with Flynn properties. He has a lot of hotels. He's been in office and he's been really active in buying San Francisco over the last few years. Um, and again, just to put some numbers on this franchise over here, he has almost 3000 locations between Applebee's Panera, Pizza Hut, and other brands. Hiten Samtani (15:03) How many calories do you think Greg Flynn serves in a single day? Will Krasne (15:06) I think a lot, he also, I gotta say, he looks phenomenal. He looks great. Clearly he's only eating at Panera. Hiten Samtani (15:12) So you and I have talked about, this is one of your concepts. I got to give you credit, which I love and I've stolen for the promote. We call it men with deep pockets, right? Guys who don't have to worry about nitty gritties like cashflow. And they can just buy on basis. They can buy on, okay, that looks like a pretty good price. So Market Center, the transaction we're talking about today, Flynn and his partner, DRA are paying $240 a foot. The previous owner, our guy's Paramount Group, boy. I can't say that name without laughing anymore. But Paramount Group paid just under a thousand a foot for the same property. It is. So there's a massive discount to be had in SF if you're willing to move. Will Krasne (15:51) So just again, to put it in like stark numbers, Flynn's paying about $177 million, Paramount paid 722. So I got into real estate to avoid math, but that is a big difference. So this is not the only deal that he has done in San Francisco recently. He bought the Huntington Hotel, which is a beautiful, like stunning old hotel in 2023. A lot of people like to make fun of, you know, who's the best investor in the world and saying that it's Nancy Pelosi. Well, Hiten Samtani (16:02) That is a huge difference. Will Krasne (16:20) Guess who's an LP in the Huntington Hotel in the Class B office building he bought on market? god. It's Nancy and Paul Pelosi. So get on the train because these things are going to the moon. Hiten Samtani (16:30) So this property market center is only half leased. So there's a lot of work to be done. Will Krasne (16:36) I think that's the opportunity though is because he is resetting at such a low cost basis. This is again, not dissimilar to what our good friend Peter Hungerford is doing with New York rent stabilized multi. Thing is, it doesn't matter, the cashflow doesn't matter as much if your basis is 77 % less than the previous owner because what that means is to hit his returns. Flynn can both, he has a lot of levers to pull. He can offer lower rents. Hiten Samtani (16:47) drop the mic, M-I-K-E. And he's talked about TIs too. He's like, we're gonna go all out on TIs. Will Krasne (17:06) He's offering massive tenant improvement packages. And I think what's really under the radar about this purchase and why I think it seems really appealing to me is the office suites on average are 13,000 square feet. Hiten Samtani (17:16) So you don't need like a financial trading company or some. Will Krasne (17:19) You don't need to go get Bank of America to take 400,000 square feet for this thing to work. You can do it with like blocking and tackling with these pre-built suites for folks like small law firm, small investment firm, you know, all of these different types of things. And what it also means is that tenants can grow in the building. So if you have a tech firm in a series A take 10,000 square feet and then they blow up, maybe they take half the building. And that's the whole deal. Like you basically give yourself a ton of shots on goal. Hiten Samtani (17:45) And to that point, like look at the quality of tenants. Okay, it's only 50 % lease, but look who's in the building, Waymo. He's got like the most exciting company in the world in his building right now. Will Krasne (17:54) I mean, I think Sam Altman might have something to say about that. Hiten Samtani (17:57) What do we know about the partner here, DRA? I've noticed a couple of purchases. They spent like 200 odd million on a portfolio from Blackstone. They bought some Chicago multifamily last year, but what's their deal? Will Krasne (18:10) So just big fund manager, I think they're on their 11th or 12th fund, several billion dollars a pop, very experienced in office, very deep pockets and have had a continued ability to raise money. So I would say what's interesting is it's Flynn's first deal with them. So new capital partner for him. But I think also he's got a pretty compelling thesis here because there's no one more local than Greg Flynn. And he's got a history of doing this type of thing and buying distress. And he's very, he's very hands on. So it's good to see for San Francisco to see new capital like DRA coming into the market. Hiten Samtani (18:46) You make a point that I really love, which is he's local. There is something about like, if Greg Flynn buys these buildings and brings SF back, there is something like I would imagine he's having conversations with Mayor Lurie and all of that. Will Krasne (19:01) I would only imagine that that's the case, but he's San Francisco to the core. Through and through. Through and through. And again, like his whole empire was started by his dad's Burger King on Van Ness. So he's got long and deep ties to the city. Hiten Samtani (19:17) This could be like a mayoral run platform at some point. Will Krasne (19:19) He's the type of guy who runs for mayor except for the fact that they already have a billionaire... Hiten Samtani (19:24) They do. Who the industry loves quite a bit right now. Mr. Mayor, if you're listening, hop on with us at some point. You know, you're seeing kind of similar stuff play out in New York as well. We've seen people snapping up unloved buildings at a very, very, very compelling basis and thinking, well, if the price is good enough, I can do something with this. I can either wait this out or I can invest the money in TIs and capital improvements and all that. Will Krasne (19:48) What I would say though is there's a little bit of difference between someone like Nandar and someone like Flynn where Nandar is going to milk this for cash flow. They're just buying stuff cheap and trying to, you know, fill it however they can. Hiten Samtani (19:59) And they go back to great neck, they don't have to worry about it, you they're not. Will Krasne (20:02) But Greg Flynn is going to invest a ton of money in these things. Whether or not they lease, who knows? He has a lot of experience in hospitality and that's something that really plays up in this acquisition. like, we're going to bring a level of hospitality to these office buildings that hasn't been in San Francisco. I think that hospitality is less important than the most generous TI packages that San Francisco has ever seen. It is good marketing and it plays a part in leasing. Hiten Samtani (20:25) TIs a bit of a tangent, I'm sorry, but speaking of TIs, have you ever checked out Ken Darts building downtown, Manhattan? Will Krasne (20:33) I have a lot to say about Kendar. Hiten Samtani (20:35) That is a mystery and a half, we'll save it for next time. I guess one point I wanna make is that this strategy of kind of buying at the bottom and seeing what you can do with it, it makes sense in a city like SF, which has the bones to be great, was once great, will probably come back. New York can make sense as well, but you're seeing buildings trade for less than nothing in places like Seattle, in other markets where kind of the comeback story isn't as sure thing. Will Krasne (21:00) New York and San Francisco and a handful of other markets have rent elasticity, which other markets don't. And so if you're buying basis here, mean, 278 a foot, mean, office rents in San Francisco, I think were like a hundred bucks a foot, not too long ago. So people bandy about replacement costs and we talk about buying on basis or buying below replacement cost. Replacement cost doesn't mean anything if no one wants to replace it. And in San Francisco or New York or Miami, like people want to replace stuff. So if you're buying below replacement in an area where people actually want to be. That's the juice. Hiten Samtani (21:32) you might just have something. I'm an immigrant, I came via the H1B visa. ⁓ Others have chosen to come via the EB5 visa and developers have always loved that, right? That program, which is colloquially known as the Cash for Green Card program, has brought in billions of dollars for some of the hottest development projects in New York, Miami, Los Angeles. It's been an incredible deal for developers because it's been like way cheaper than traditional mezz. It's been a not so great deal for the investors themselves. Will Krasne (22:09) I unless you really needed to get into the US. Hiten Samtani (22:13) That's true. But there's been a lot of controversy about this program forever. The minimum thresholds for investment were raised. There's been a lot more restrictions on the program. There's been a lot of concern about gerrymandering and President Trump had talked about killing it entirely and replacing it with what he called, I believe the, what was it called? The Trump Gold Card. Will Krasne (22:31) My only thing about the gold card is that if you need to spend five million dollars to figure out how to get into the US, like the people who have that much money, like presumably can find a cheaper way and quicker way to get there. Just... Yeah, I mean, it's just ridiculous. Hiten Samtani (22:41) Go to St. Kitts and Nevis. Anyway, so that's kind of the background for this, but what's interesting here is that Kushner companies, know, Charlie Kushner, Jared Kushner, who's president Trump's son-in-law, Nicole Kushner-Meyer, there was a huge controversy the last time around when they went to raise EB-5 funds for this project. Massive. I believe what happened was Nikki was in a room with Chinese investors and kind of alluded to her brother's then White House role during the fundraise. It was a big no-no at the time. Will Krasne (22:55) law. Nicole Meyer. Hiten Samtani (23:13) they actually pulled back from soliciting EB-5 funds for this project. The second Trump administration, the lines are completely redrawn. Will Krasne (23:23) It's just sort of emblematic that something that was radioactive, you know, seven years ago is now sort of going through without any sort of scrutiny. Hiten Samtani (23:32) So what they've just received is approval for a new structure, which is EB-5 visa green card petitioners. So you're immigrant from China, India, wherever has to just kick in 500,000 upfront and then they can finance the rest. So you need about 800,000 to hit the minimum threshold for an EB-5 visa. Now you only have to put half a million upfront and then you can get a loan for the rest. you're financializing the American dream. Will Krasne (23:58) I would argue the American dream is financialization. when people are coming in, we're getting them off on the right foot. Hiten Samtani (24:05) It's unbelievable. But what's interesting here, again, you and I, the promoter in general, is fascinated by middlemen. The Kushner part is fine. It's interesting. It's politically charged, whatever. But the guys that came up with the structure are Nick Mastrione's US Immigration Fund. And they made, I mean, they pulled in hundreds of millions of dollars in the EB-5 heyday. And they've come up with this new structure, which might give them an edge over all the other regional centers. Will Krasne (24:31) He's made so much money and frankly, like the risk adjusted basis on which he has made his money is out of control. mean, it's like, it's like Podshop-esque Sharpe ratio. So it's really interesting to see him back with a new structure. And frankly, like, again, not to be political, but like if the environment is different and he's taking advantage of it and is able to do this, it means a lot. Like it means a lot of projects are going to, it's hard to make stuff work right now. So this old new type of financing is back. A lot of these things can get off the ground now. ⁓ Hiten Samtani (25:01) The idea is it's basically 500 now and then you can worry about the rest later through this structured loan, which I'd imagine US immigration fund can offer. I would imagine that it's going to be their network of lenders. Hi. Correct. Yeah. So it's, it's an incredible business model. It happened to be a Kushner project that gets the first one of these, but I wonder if this is now a template they can use with all other developers. I would imagine that's, that's the, that's the Will Krasne (25:13) I that would probably be right. Yeah, and as you said, we're fascinated in things that have downstream effects on the real estate market I mean this thing goes through and I think you're gonna see a lot of projects get built because there's Money's more expensive right now on the debt on the debt side construction costs have gone up So if you can find a cheaper way to finance, that's how stuff's gonna get built Hiten Samtani (25:48) This is all happening while the death of EB5 is coming up. EB5 is dead, long live EB5. ⁓ That's it for the Promote Podcast this week. The American dream, it's now not just up for purchase, but can also be financed through a regional center near you. If that regional center is the US Immigration Fund, of course. Men with deep pockets are stepping up all over the country and gobbling up buildings on faces. speaking of gobbling, we're seeing a wave of &A as AUM chases AUM. Will Krasne (26:16) Taco Bell. fees and scale all the way down. Hiten Samtani (26:25) If you like what you're hearing and want to get in front of our audience, Will Krasne (26:27) A Top 100 Business Podcast audience. Hiten Samtani (26:30) write us at partnerships at thepromote.com. That's partnerships at thepromote.com. Will Krasne (26:35) Like, share, subscribe to help us get more broad. Hiten Samtani (26:36) Write us a review. You guys love this podcast, you're obsessed with it. Tell more people about it, as simple as that. Will Krasne (26:44) It's so simple. Hiten Samtani (26:46) Thank you. Will Krasne (26:47) Thank you. Hiten Samtani (26:50) Ciao!