Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to the scrumptious Dylan Rees about his choice of Survivors of the Flux

Transcript

Talks to the scrumptious Dylan Rees about his choice of Survivors of the Flux · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:41
Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt, penknife a doctor who
0:45
commentary podcast, I'm Dylan still here.
0:48
Still talking about flux. And obviously, I'm also with Jo
0:51
Jo how are you? I'm a bit miffed.
0:54
And I'm gonna take you to task immediately as to what you just
0:57
said there. A doctor, who commentary
0:59
podcast, let alone the dog food. What about Toby?
1:04
Hey, Doug, exactly. You're listening.
1:10
Toby other pole. Hey toke, I'll tell him race on
1:15
mine. All right.
1:18
Really? Well, I'm very hot.
1:19
I'm not in as in I'm gorgeous but it's extremely warm here
1:23
today. Well, you are both very hot and
1:25
very hot at, but here we are is about 500 degrees outside than
1:29
in. So we may burn up quicker than
1:32
the universe, doesn't flux. Yeah.
1:34
Jesus Christ, yet today, we're covering survivors of the flocks
1:39
which You know what my instant impulse is to start talking
1:44
about people that don't like this.
1:46
And you know what? I'm going to put a kibosh on
1:49
this almost immediately and say let's not do that for these last
1:52
two. Yes, I think.
1:55
People do come down hard on these last two episodes but I
1:57
think they're great. I could just kind of want to
2:00
celebrate without a caveat of what you what the hell do you
2:05
think people are so hard on this, you know?
2:07
Yeah. What exactly.
2:09
So let's not talk about those people, fuck those people,
2:11
they'll come, they'll listen to this and they'll go back to
2:13
these episodes and go. My God.
2:15
We were wrong, these are brilliant, it is one of the
2:18
shames in my life, you know that, I think I have fucked one
2:20
of those people which is but that was before, With Carrera
2:25
que Rao or I cannot be and they were quite cute but I can't be
2:28
held accountable for that. That's fair enough.
2:31
You know the things change times change but they certainly do.
2:35
Where did we leave off last time?
2:36
Then I'll believe there was a spectacular Cliffhanger.
2:39
There were, there was there was a huge climax in which that
2:44
you've been doing this podcast in which Jodie, Jodie Whittaker
2:49
went hard as a rock and oh my God, all the water coming out my
2:54
nose. Okay.
2:59
I'm all right. Come on.
3:03
Jodie Whittaker. Turned into a weeping angel.
3:05
She did. What?
3:07
Willie one of those celebrate Cliffhangers of her time?
3:10
Yeah, it is. And it's a wonderful
3:12
Cliffhanger, whether the resolution lives up to it, I
3:15
don't know. But you know what, they they
3:17
never do, they never do. But you've got, you've got to
3:19
get your leehi, the lead of your series out of a situation, and
3:24
how many times the doctor A bit near death or occasionally
3:27
completely dead. And then the next episode they
3:29
wake up so that the resolutions never bother me.
3:33
Well, I'm just going to ask you a question is, what's more
3:36
important to you? Is it the Cliff Hanger itself?
3:41
Enticing, people back the next week or is it the resolution to
3:44
the Cliffhanger being satisfied? Oh, it's a cliffhanger 100% the
3:48
Cliffhanger. Although I think they succeeded
3:51
thing because we're back to watch your back and another
3:54
question. Before we go in is there is a
3:57
lot happening in this episode. Yeah, it's spectacularly dense.
4:03
This pieces, others years and years.
4:06
A narrative terms, I have bout five plot threads.
4:12
Are we've woven through this. Yeah, it's a it's a big episode.
4:17
I mean, the whole the flux is big and I do think that's why
4:20
people struggle with it because we are, we are in a new type of
4:23
Doctor Who here. A lot to me, this felt to me as
4:29
close because I think this is the one episode of this whole
4:32
season that really doesn't stand alone.
4:36
It is a sort of a, to be episode, you know, the Game of
4:41
Thrones does every week, you know, with all those different
4:44
plot Fred's taking place, but could you keep up with
4:49
everything that was going on here?
4:50
Oh, why is it? You and I can keep up with her
4:52
friend going on here. Like on our, we just smart
4:54
viewers We are much smarter than everybody else.
4:58
Well, I will be more in tune with modern television.
5:01
I think there's a certain amount of being into modern television.
5:04
I also think modern television is made for repeat viewing.
5:07
We might have said this on some of the previous episodes, but
5:10
blocks is meant to be watched again, and again, and for you to
5:13
pick up new things and new bits, and understanding more, and
5:16
indeed get me readings off of it.
5:17
If you're the sort of person that likes to layer subtext of
5:20
metaphor on two things. So I don't think it's something
5:24
that can It works in isolation but I think the more you watch
5:29
it, the more rewarding it is. Well, let's go get some rewards
5:33
10 and press play on the episode, indeed.
5:37
You ready? Yes.
5:38
You going to count us in. I certainly am I'm gonna want to
5:41
do it in this in the form of sworn, you know, bit Camp, five,
5:46
four, three, two, That was almost like a smile that we're
5:55
going to get boners. Listen to this.
5:59
That's what we're all here for the erections.
6:03
They flirtatious banter the ground.
6:08
This is covering in the previously on.
6:11
I know it's a lot. And of course, these previously
6:15
these are building up in a way, they don't normally, because
6:17
they've got four episodes of previously on doctor.
6:22
Who was that woman played by Barbara Flynn third episode?
6:26
Yeah, well I mean obviously we find out it's Tech, tell you but
6:31
I guess this is something that I wanted to ask you and I might
6:34
ask a few times over this. If I'm a member of this is not
6:37
to sound like one of the anti Jodie Whittaker Brigade.
6:40
But do you think the Casual viewer and inverted commas or
6:44
the regular viewer, as I prefer to call them rather than Doctor
6:47
Who fans, remember who's texting you knees and do you get enough?
6:50
Explanation of that. Yeah.
6:53
And I do think that is the case and I think chip is really
6:57
careful to wait to drop who she is.
7:01
Yeah, so he kind of explains why she's there where they are and
7:07
then that because I think that when you realize who she is but
7:11
all that conversation becomes about yeah, you shit with the
7:14
doctor, you get enough, Exposition in there but I think
7:17
Chris chibnall is often criticized for being a bit
7:20
clunky with his Exposition, but actually it's a lot subtler.
7:22
Influx a lot of the time and it's all there.
7:25
And people complain that things aren't explained enough.
7:28
This really baffles me, write this thing about clunky.
7:31
Exposition we've been watching clunky.
7:33
Exposition full 60 fucking years.
7:35
Yes, only go and watch Invasion time.
7:38
I haven't got the money to do the expensive things they want
7:40
to do. So they're gonna throw five
7:42
minutes of Time. Lord Lori you.
7:43
Yeah. And you and Russell T.
7:46
Davies Steven Moffat they're all guilty of it.
7:50
Yeah. Oh, I watched Guardians of the
7:53
Galaxy Vol 2 today. Where's he going?
7:56
This, I hear you. Ask well, they had a budget
7:59
which I've I would imagine is in excess of about a thousand times
8:03
and what chip? No add in this episode?
8:04
Yeah well I'm telling you now there were some expensive visual
8:09
effects in that where I absolutely could tell they were
8:12
in front of a green screen. Yeah.
8:15
Comparable to this. Yeah, that just goes to show and
8:20
I think this whole episode is full of really arresting images.
8:24
I know we said that throughout the whole thing but it was
8:27
particularly noticeable. He like went in a minute when
8:29
the camera comes up. Yeah.
8:31
And there's hundreds of thousands of weeping angels.
8:34
Yeah. And I field of weeping angels.
8:36
It's such a such a doctor who image and I know we, that's a
8:41
cliche that we threw out a lot, but it's also the sort of doctor
8:43
image. They need the Joe wasn't even
8:45
doing five or ten years ago sequences now.
8:50
Okay, we got yeas and Jericho and Dan often Adventures around
8:55
the world and therefore it, there are, I want that spin-off.
8:59
I'd it doesn't. I don't want it as a big finish
9:01
boxer. I want Russell T, Davies as
9:03
Doctor Who to have a spin-off with these three, guys going
9:06
around the world and all of a sudden were in The Mummy or
9:10
Indiana Jones again, it's doing that thing of Doctor Who doing
9:14
others. Rose.
9:15
And it's again, it could be a whole episode, but we throw it
9:18
away in about 10 minutes and it's all the more better for it
9:22
and enjoy. It could be kind of awkward.
9:24
It's because we're just seeing sort of snapshots across the
9:27
years. Yeah.
9:29
In different locations. What really sells it to me, is
9:31
the humor, there's so much joke. So there are really fun Trio to
9:35
be runs here. You've got the sort of pulley
9:37
system of ropes with Dad Jericho going up and down like a a
9:41
church ringers. He's so funny.
9:44
It's it's very funny. And what I like about Jericho is
9:48
we talked about this being appointed new version of Doctor
9:51
Who, but he is a character straight out of classic Doctor
9:55
Who and there's a couple of those in this episode as well
9:57
as, you know, being with fresh exciting.
9:59
New take on Doctor Who at the still stuff there.
10:02
If you like your more traditional Doctor Who it's just
10:04
not at the core of the episode. If Jericho I turned up in
10:07
pyramids of Mars, instead of Marcus come as his mate, it'll
10:11
be surprised like he would fit into that perfectly.
10:14
Yeah. I'll talk to you, is always
10:17
straight away from doing sort of ancient Egypt and stuff like
10:19
that. Hasn't it really?
10:20
They've never they've never gone fully in like there's bits of
10:24
it, you get a mummy on the Orient Express, you're going to
10:26
pyramids at various points and you get some of some of the
10:30
Daleks master plan and some are pyramids of Mars, but you never
10:33
get there's never been like a proper ancient Egypt.
10:35
Set story on the TV you know that it's like catnip to Rusty
10:39
Davis. It is the budget now.
10:40
Alright is Mickey Mouse honey. Now, I've got it with suddenly
10:46
got a nude on the screen. So my question to you is are the
10:50
issue that popular or is the costume?
10:52
Just really easy to use both, right?
10:56
I think both because I ever time while they're popular with me,
10:59
because every time I see him doctor's wife, things like that,
11:02
I'm like, oh my God, it's an acute.
11:04
What a malleable sort of alien race because they're so prone to
11:08
being taken over that. You can just use them as any bit
11:11
of cannon fodder, I can't hear, but it is nice as well to have
11:14
have one alien race that is sort of see through all the air has
11:18
and is that is actually sort of talking up their number of
11:20
appearances. Yeah, very true.
11:22
Now we've got the first appearance of text a moon and a
11:25
lovely hat and lovely had. Like she's off to go exploring
11:28
herself, but this image of the massive red tree.
11:32
Yeah. It's sort of a tardis with a
11:34
tree growing out and I don't know whether it's supposed to be
11:36
like the whole of space and time, but and as well, the
11:41
confidence of tone here as well, we just have that classic
11:44
Sequence in the Tomb. Now we're in like a Suk
11:48
whereabouts, are we? Oh, I can't remember.
11:50
It just came up on the screen enough somewhere, very hot and
11:54
steamy, we're in sort of Adventure territory, where
11:55
there's bombs going off and people's lives in danger, and
11:58
they're on the ship where they're having to murder
12:01
assassins and throw them overboard.
12:03
But like, that's very confident to sort of shift owns one scene
12:06
after another, you know, but those those seams of on the ship
12:10
and indeed in mathura might, they're so funny.
12:12
They remind me of some of the Hartnell Historicals, I'm
12:15
thinking of the Romans and even the reign of terror and things
12:18
like that, and the gunfighters just very silly comedy moments
12:21
in the middle of historical settings.
12:24
So again, this, it's a traditional doctor did if you
12:27
turn this black and white. Now, it would look like an
12:30
episode of The Crusade or some people will be blacktop, I know.
12:34
Yeah, yeah, and it makes a bit of a mockery as well.
12:39
One thing only found I've got to mention.
12:41
Who's a bit dismissive? Is my Roth?
12:44
He was with me when I was watching this free.
12:46
Floors up naked in a very hot room and it's only way to enjoy
12:50
it. This ain't going.
12:51
Where are you think it is? And he sort of turned over all
12:54
the way through, and he went on, nothing's happening, it's just
12:57
lots of explanations. Actually, plenty is happening.
13:00
There's an instant in this episode.
13:02
There's a lot of incidents in all these episodes.
13:04
And I think it's, I think it's a bit too much for some people
13:08
because, but it is again, it's primed for a modern television
13:12
viewing, the other a favorite Doctor Who Aras Terry Nation.
13:15
All right, he's not doing anything too dense or complicate
13:19
a lot. Everybody's got their fans.
13:21
At least seems one of our okay. Come on.
13:22
Can we talk about mandic Gil? Yeah.
13:25
And how she takes control of these things brilliantly?
13:29
She's amazing. That this guy This, I'm going to
13:33
call them the ugly waiter. He's not that ugly.
13:35
But, you know, he's just got such a unique face, but sorry,
13:40
we were talking about manded. Guilt she, she said she sleep
13:43
ever bit The Action Hero. She's funny.
13:45
She's confident. She's playing the doctor again,
13:48
and all these seems she got two great companions as well.
13:51
She's got two great Companions and you know, which again, we'll
13:55
all of a sudden were in a spy, in Espionage spy Thriller.
13:59
This is this. This feels very Indiana Jones,
14:02
all this stuff. And I think I don't know.
14:04
Like I wonder if our website, this would have been to Mars,
14:07
but sort of 15 minutes of the in this episode is just enough to
14:12
like, it would have been that your standard-issue episode 3 of
14:15
a ten-part, 12 part 13, but it would have been a fun ROM.
14:19
But what he, what channel's doing here is taking all those
14:22
elements and dicing them up so he can tell a bigger story and
14:26
without having to go right, how do we make this part of History?
14:30
We interesting we do this monster it and we deal with this
14:32
person it's like though we can we can visit it all?
14:36
Yeah its ambitious stuff. Oh here we go.
14:40
Now and so this is another plot Fred we've got ya fellas name.
14:44
Oh what is his name? His name is Prentiss.
14:47
Stroke the ground serpent with the guess.
14:49
Yeah. The other guys one of the top
14:53
Lads that unit its rights are watching an episode of Red
14:56
Dwarf, the other day plan, todhunter?
14:59
Yes of course. In cold feet is been doing the
15:02
rounds for years, this guy. And again he's another
15:05
character. And this scene could be
15:06
straight. I've classic Doctor Who it's all
15:09
are one thing. You know, if he didn't have an
15:12
episode in mind for his longer season, the formation of unit
15:15
episode. Yeah, but I am not from our
15:18
white. I'm putting it in but also I did
15:21
wonder whether if there was ever supposed to be a Captain Jack,
15:23
maybe it was a Torchwood role here, rather than H do it.
15:27
But I don't know whether there was ever supposed to be a
15:29
Captain Jack in this, But all I know is that oil leak, ran
15:33
serpent Isle of every single mostly he's obsequious here and
15:37
then you see him slowly gaining power and being cocky shit by
15:41
the end, doesn't it? But also, you would never trust
15:44
a just the, he's the sort of clarity only get on TV.
15:47
We go, I don't trust that person.
15:49
Why is this a look of you? You see the actor on the East
15:54
Charming as hell? I'm sure he is.
15:56
I'm sure he's very Charming in real life and looked and, and
16:00
Ever again, we're in the pandemic at this point.
16:03
Yeah, and we're doing like, within a market set.
16:07
We've done a ship set. We're now out on location by a
16:11
country house. Later, on we're in a country
16:13
house, we're doing CGI Vistas like I think, in terms of the
16:18
potential of ambition with setting doctor anywhere, It
16:25
should have been you this ambition, like like weirdly you
16:29
think sort of pandemic Doctor Who is all set in the Tardis or
16:32
something like that, or that's what people were fearing.
16:35
It's gonna be a lot of blank rooms, you know.
16:37
Yeah. Cube or something like that.
16:41
Yeah, yeah. Not very true.
16:42
But we've got everything but they're clever and they because
16:45
there's not loads of people in any of these seeds.
16:48
They've said I'd never have anything about now, we get
16:51
leaked, It feels massive and now we get thousand in full effects
16:56
that way at this point. So I think our first real
17:00
inkling of this was in Revolution of the Daleks where
17:04
she had all those posters up all over that old Tar this and she
17:07
was just obsessed with getting back to the doctor but then ever
17:10
since then is sort of been building a bit but what was the
17:13
things with the stuff with Jack as well?
17:15
Wasn't there when they start talks about being in love with
17:17
the doctor and I do think there's a little bit of it in
17:21
series. No seriously.
17:23
Well, into adulthood, she has a chat with somebody with did RT,
17:26
which to do that. She's very keen on.
17:29
Yeah. But he it's kind of this is the
17:32
first moment is kind of really explicit isn't here.
17:35
Half a twitterer Open Arms the other half of the most happy
17:38
they've ever been. I love all of the doctor guess
17:41
it was. She's gonna say as well.
17:42
I know you said that I was I'm going to look like a right idiot
17:45
that she's at. I mean also to talk about Jodi
17:49
in this scene, she's just she's so charismatic and funny.
17:52
I mean, I have my notes in front of me and it says that this
17:55
scene is touching and funny and then I just wrote Jody is a God.
17:59
She is she's saying and you know, I said this off my but I'm
18:02
going to say on might now because everyone needs to hear I
18:05
was at Comic Con this weekend and the Q form and it Gil was
18:09
stretching the length of the ice rink.
18:11
That I mean people were desperate to say she was by far
18:14
the most popular, guess they're right.
18:16
That that doesn't surprise me and I just think it's all
18:20
bollocks that this series is a popular alike.
18:23
I think people in general love her, but they're just not on
18:26
Twitter shouting about how much they love Jodie Whittaker
18:29
because there are other things. I don't know what the kids use
18:32
Tick-Tock. I'm too scared to say that
18:36
sounding really, really, but as well.
18:40
I'll hang on a minute. We've got there.
18:42
Dan and Jericho back now. Are they just trying the filler
18:44
over the ship? It goes heavy bigger.
18:49
That's nice item. And it was all right, say yes.
18:53
Can I what your little too good at this?
18:55
Yeah, yeah. Because she's been doing it for
18:57
so long. Yeah.
18:58
Doing it for so long. And these guys have been thrown
19:00
in at the deep end Danza plaster, it was just late for a
19:04
date while, I wasn't even Plastering.
19:06
At that point, mostly, it was only a plaster in that weird
19:09
scene that we shot for. I was listening to the on the
19:12
time. Lash guys, the other day talking
19:13
about flocks, are they were making the same point we did in
19:16
episode 1 and 2, about Dan, starting off penniless and ended
19:20
up homeless, and I see him. He's great.
19:25
I was gonna ask you, do you think this is the season where,
19:29
you know, like how every doctors got their companion, the second
19:32
obstacle, Jamie the full of doctors got Sarah.
19:35
The seventh block just got mail or a see if you consider it.
19:38
Why I think, like, man, deep. And Jody of always had great
19:42
chemistry. Yeah, but it's this is that he
19:45
the season Robin to power. The doctor.
19:47
This is where that cements this as the relationship of that era.
19:51
Yeah. The definitive relationship.
19:53
Wreckers, I think before this, a lot of people would identify
19:56
Graham, but I would argue Graves relationship isn't really with
19:59
the dr. Graham is just very funny, so
20:01
that's why people are drawn to him.
20:03
The greatest relationship is with Ryan, and that's, that's
20:08
sort of the through line of their two seasons.
20:10
Be a right here. You're going, I think you're
20:13
looking at one of the great dr. Companion Duo's.
20:16
But I don't think it's present in the first two seasons in the
20:19
same way. It's so good.
20:21
You know, that an arm I'm not I'm not the biggest fan of
20:24
Legends of the sea temples. I do think it's a bit dull but
20:27
those seams between Jodi. Amanda that made it worth
20:29
watching. Yeah, I'm in the ocean with the
20:32
Tardis line up, the ocean, all the fish swimming around.
20:35
Yeah I love this. Oh boy, here we go.
20:38
Exposition time. But she handles it so well this
20:44
all this Exposition and that she and she but that they're both is
20:50
just to really good actors in a room spouting off nonsense.
20:54
And I don't mean that in like a critical way.
20:56
I mean in the same way that you know, Harrison Ford talked about
20:59
George Lucas's dialogue and Star Wars, right?
21:02
You can right the ship but you can't say it but good actors may
21:05
call it work. Make all this work and that's
21:07
what these two are here. And they are both holding their
21:09
own against each other. I do wonder if Lesser actor
21:13
would trip up on this much Exposition because it is
21:16
basically all explanation. But what I love about it is, is
21:20
their massive ideas. So you've got two universes, and
21:24
the vision is literally the division of those two universes,
21:28
a space station that exists and one universe is ending.
21:34
Yeah, she's taken away. What seedlings and and samples
21:39
recently Kickstart Another Universe, I think.
21:42
About that so huge that I did. It's such a huge idea.
21:45
It's something that I hope they explore again more because I
21:49
I've said this many times before but give me give me Doctor Who
21:52
that goes to other universes, and it doesn't always have to be
21:54
about meeting someone's alternative Nan and things like
21:57
that. But such a big idea of a
21:59
universe just on the cusp of starting, like, give me some of
22:04
that what? New dangers and Terrors, and
22:06
things like that exist there. Yeah, it's almost like what you
22:11
certain That site about you know, how Steven Moffat can
22:15
throw away ideas, Big Ideas like in one scene and he almost does
22:20
that. There doesn't because we never
22:21
really touched upon a again and we don't return to the division.
22:24
Do we? No, absolutely not.
22:27
And I mean, who knows? Maybe we will, maybe we will in
22:29
the future. If you see that visual their of
22:32
that massive sort of mired in space, everything looks good in
22:36
this every visual effects shot. Every set.
22:40
Like they've just pulled out all the stops to make this.
22:43
The biggest Doctor Who story that's ever been told.
22:45
I remember watching Fast cave, right?
22:48
In all of his ale, 90 all the early 2000s and just remembering
22:52
that they were going for weird all the time and just
22:55
Unusual-looking planets. And weird-looking, Alias often,
22:59
this is as close as Doctor Who's ever come to just go and all
23:02
out. The universe is a big place and
23:05
it is not what you're used to seeing in your yeah, leverage
23:08
science fiction. Yeah.
23:10
I think we have a habit in Doctor Who of just sewing.
23:13
So doing the Cantina scene with a room full of funny.
23:16
Aliens and go look how big the universe is and that's it.
23:20
I do remember, Rusty daily shied away from going to another
23:22
planet in that first season, because he wasn't sure the BBC
23:25
could Off absolutely look how far we've come there.
23:28
And I think he'll come. And also it was worried about
23:30
audience is accepting it. And I think you come this new
23:33
series, I could be wrong, but I think we'll be on every every
23:38
planet across the universe that you can possibly go to and we're
23:42
assholes watching this, right? I was like, okay, that's that's
23:45
the effect showpiece for this episode.
23:47
You know that hand in space and I know was like, no wait!
23:50
You going? You got Dan and sorry died and
23:53
vinda. They're running across a letter.
23:55
No, that's the Special effects shop for this.
23:56
What? And I just kept doing it.
23:58
So you know the singer, okay. No, we're just it's just
24:01
amazing. Well, it used, that's what it
24:02
used to feel, like, doesn't it and even Rusty Davis was quoted.
24:05
As saying in the early series, they had x amount of special
24:09
effects shots. They could have her episode or
24:11
per season and they bang come up for the big episodes.
24:14
But this just, I mean, it all feels like it's a special
24:16
effects shop and that's not like, a negative thing of like,
24:20
look at all this computer-generated nonsense.
24:22
As it just, they spent the money.
24:25
Even just out there with them around those lights.
24:28
You've got it's on like some Quarry is looking Planet, but
24:33
with all of these old decaying churches around us.
24:36
Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah.
24:38
It's absolutely like, it's such a huge landscape and Vista in
24:43
every shot, this is a different director, isn't it?
24:46
Yes, these episodes are coming to the fellas name now, but I
24:51
can tell that there's a different sort of visual palette
24:54
from Jamie. Stones episodes.
24:57
Yeah. These Arthur something is that
24:59
Arthur Salim or something like that.
25:01
Something like that. I'm just going to look them up.
25:03
You keep talking while I look him up.
25:05
So talk. It's what I do, baby.
25:07
Don't you worry. And here.
25:10
Now we are checking out. What's a woman's name, replaced?
25:12
Ha Eun Barbara? Yes.
25:15
That's the one, honestly, she's heroic that.
25:18
My one regret is that she dies in this episode.
25:21
I know she could be a returning false because she's not quite
25:25
she's not out to get the doctor and like it in an evil way, but
25:29
she's just like you've messed all this up.
25:31
So I'd love this sort of vengeful, not vengeful, but I
25:34
just love it to be a recurring character who has a vested
25:37
interest in the doctors life. But it's like with every person
25:41
a place, a dog suit, you put them in a set, a one-on-one
25:44
scene with another really good actor.
25:47
And I think towards the end of this episode Jody get some of
25:50
her best things. Where she's basically saying,
25:53
you know, no, I'm not poisoning the Universe I did.
25:56
Good, you know, what you're doing is wrong when the doctor
26:00
sort of morally. Upright.
26:01
I love those sequins and, you know cross.
26:05
Yeah, it's as a Salim who directs this as a Are also
26:10
directed Once Upon Time and the vanquishes.
26:13
So, I, you know, I don't think it's any secret to say that
26:16
those are probably the three least popular episodes of the
26:21
series. Yeah, at the moment, but we'll
26:23
see how that changes after we've brought us this.
26:27
That's right. We're going to be changing Minds
26:29
left, right? And Center.
26:32
There she goes. That morality is a strength.
26:34
It's just reasserting what the doctors all about because she's
26:38
got this really perverse. The idea that because the
26:41
doctors gone out into the universe that she somehow
26:44
infected it's beyond repair now. But I love that idea because the
26:49
doctor has just been everywhere that it's got.
26:51
Its written every, every action of the doctor must have
26:55
consequences every action of every time, lord must have
26:57
consequences which is why they don't go out there.
27:00
And so the doctor can't help. But just in my mind the doctors
27:03
always been sort of even before this destined to be almost the
27:08
downfall of the universe. With too much kind of
27:11
intervention. So you can see the third thing
27:15
about her saying here. Yeah, near the 60th anniversary,
27:20
is that they've been so many doctors stories.
27:22
This point across so many mediums that what she's saying
27:25
is absolutely true. Doctor has been everywhere.
27:28
I'm a one bit of History. The doctor hasn't touched, you
27:31
know. Yeah, it's absolutely
27:33
everywhere. Apart from to Birmingham the
27:34
doctor, never goes to Birmingham.
27:37
Many of her Marcus likes an arson.
27:39
It's all right, but I just want a doctor historic.
27:41
Setting Birmingham, Rusty, David is listening, who makes the
27:46
peaky, blinders all the woman you used to call mother?
27:50
Yeah. All there's a lovely shot is
27:52
nature as I think the eyes are the same.
27:54
Yeah, the way Barbara film plays that Yeah, it's here we go.
28:00
With all the old-school unit headquarters, hello?
28:04
I swear, it's like house for the free doctor goes for that black
28:07
hole, except this is so fabulous.
28:11
Sort of grand staircases. Are they still be in the 70s?
28:14
No, and a lovely little Cameo here from the Brigadier, just
28:18
just in audio. I must have said this before,
28:21
but it's a crime that there was not a cameo by Nicholas
28:24
Courtney. And the new series.
28:26
No it didn't. Have to be a huge one.
28:28
Just to just a little something somewhere.
28:30
They missed our moment in that. Yeah.
28:32
Important, Tom for goodness sake.
28:34
You know, yeah. Did you know I love about this
28:38
thing? I do love the Brigadier Cameo,
28:40
it's the way he goes in. He goes, this is our fabulous
28:43
Alien Detector, and it's got the spinning reels of all the
28:46
technology in the 70s. I'm like, yes.
28:48
That one's paying attention to the disorder.
28:51
It's a brilliant bit of production design.
28:55
I'm going to ask the question. I asked earlier.
28:57
Should we do we think that unit is as much a part of the doctor
29:01
whom it is to be general public or the regular viewer that as
29:05
Doctor Who fan seem to think it is or indeed, when Russell T,
29:10
Davies bought it back. He wasn't quick to do unit in
29:13
the way that it was recognizable.
29:14
It was just a military organization but Steven Moffat,
29:17
and indeed chibnall here of kind of doubled down on the legacy of
29:20
unit and the Brigadier, do that. Do what we're hearing is going
29:23
to continue as well, isn't it? Yeah, I think so.
29:25
Angela spinoff. Things.
29:27
Yeah. And an opportunity to bring back
29:29
old companions, I think my in the new series definitely.
29:34
Yes, I think in the classic series it is just that period is
29:37
it that dense weird of unit adventures in the early 70s?
29:44
Yes, I'm going to say, yes, I think I think if you've got, if
29:47
you're at all familiar with Doctor Who I think you would
29:51
have casual knowledge of unit. Yeah, no, I think you're right.
29:54
And it's odd have how much the Brigadier shows up in all these
29:59
sort of potential 90s Doctor. Who's That Never Happened.
30:02
It's like, it's just seen. As if you do Doctor, Who You
30:06
need to bring it here. And this yeah, yeah.
30:09
I'm not, I don't disagree with that assessment.
30:12
Now, it's the was a unit spin-off.
30:15
Would you prefer Kate Stewart to be in charge?
30:18
No, they could do a bamburgh. Do you even need to ask me that
30:22
cause st. Angela Bruce.
30:25
I'll tell you what. Bam Berra.
30:27
Big finish says that she does one.
30:29
There are amazing too. She can't deliver a single line
30:32
naturalistically and she's still as cool as hell.
30:36
Honestly, she's amazing. She's so over-the-top she
30:39
delivers as much emotion as Jemma Redgrave over voids.
30:45
Although she does get the display anger in this episode
30:49
that scene that comes later. I'll sit up in my chair and
30:51
went, fuck me. Hey, Stewart is in my being that
30:57
snake coming out of. Yeah, I can't decide whether
31:00
it's a slightly one of the weaker special effects, or
31:03
whether it's just meant to look. So because it's gold, and it's
31:05
meant to look so alien that you don't That it's not like a
31:10
slithery snake basically. So I'm kind of I'm unsure of
31:14
whether I had had believed belief on that effect.
31:17
He reminds me a bit of the time worm, you know, from the new
31:19
adventures, I mean, I'm just thinking about Eric Roberts and
31:24
his gloopy, massive snake. Yeah, I'll spend a bit of time
31:29
thinking about that as well. And it is ham acting to is
31:35
brilliant. A big finish to.
31:37
I've not done anything. Excuse me, that is its minimum
31:41
effort. Maximum Impact just not the TV
31:44
movie. Now if he's someone who, if they
31:47
were a Comic-Con, I would love to get a photo with.
31:50
Oh yeah, I think I do like, do the line.
31:53
I always driven to say that a of the doxa, I think he talks very
31:59
did ya get? It's a good throw back.
32:02
Oh, here we go. Look, if that's coming at and
32:04
hi. It's the time.
32:05
It's true. So okay.
32:08
Now I Got a question for you. Then I vow obviously that was
32:12
dropped that Revelation in the time as children and then we
32:15
sort of had the doctor processing it in Revolution of
32:18
the Daleks. And now she's like I'm going to
32:20
find out about division. I'm going to find out about all
32:22
of this, then all these Revelations, drop in this
32:25
episode and she gets to watch. And then she decides Ashley.
32:32
I like who I am that. Watch can ghosts go hang?
32:36
Is that satisfying for you? Yes, it is.
32:40
But I also think it's something that could be Revisited.
32:43
I'm not saying it will be but something that could be
32:45
Revisited. It was probably the least
32:47
satisfying for Nicholas Briggs who saw the potential of 1000
32:50
box sets chunks away but you know, the console I think it's
32:59
more interesting to have this one doctor.
33:01
We don't know. Very little about it in the Roof
33:04
Doctor then suddenly be introduced to hundreds
33:08
thousands, a couple of other doctors and I think Doctor Who
33:11
fans were it was damned if you do damned if you don't.
33:15
Because I do always going to be pissed off if you did it and
33:17
they always going to be pissed off if you didn't.
33:19
So what is the correct answer? Truthfully as said before, maybe
33:23
a bit more of the Roof Doctor might have satisfied people but
33:27
that's, you know, her and the big dog Calvin Easter running
33:31
around somewhere. Where perhaps but yeah, well, I
33:34
think I think the idea of May sort of putting the emphasis on
33:37
Doctor Who, as in creating mystery around the doctors
33:41
backstory for so much have been told.
33:43
That's a brilliant idea. Yeah.
33:45
And it's very boring than to have everything spell out words
33:48
so I'm really pleased actually, it's very ambiguous.
33:51
We know there's something to learn, we all know everything
33:53
about this character anymore which we did before.
33:56
Yeah, kind of to that barn and all sorts and seeing him as a
33:59
little boy of things. I wanna see that.
34:02
And at some point somebody will go back to it.
34:05
And I'm not saying it'll be big finish, but it's such a rich
34:08
thing that I know that after the time of children, everybody
34:13
there was this whole thing of. Well, anybody can be the doctor
34:15
and it's a very smart that Chris chibnall didn't suddenly
34:18
introduced a whole bunch of every guest character of the
34:20
weeks, the doctor because that's the sort of stupid thing that
34:23
people think of. But it means there can always be
34:26
these other doctors we can we can meet, okay?
34:29
I'm so sorry. I was literally going to say to
34:31
you. Couple of minutes ago you really
34:33
missed out of trick you know and getting some Prestige guest
34:36
actors in and just you know Judi Dench or someone like that.
34:40
That's just for this one story. There's one Christmas New Year's
34:43
special but you're the doctor what?
34:47
That's not a problem. But I was just thinking in terms
34:49
of all the speculation was every character that showed up for a
34:54
little bit was like, well, that person is going to be a doctor
34:56
that person's going to be a doctor, the high, then cat Cameo
34:59
things will happen. I honestly thought When we need
35:02
the Cristiano was leaving, and we didn't know what was
35:04
happening. But the 60th, I thought they
35:08
would get either Steven Moffat, or Russell T, Davies back.
35:10
Just to do a one or two off, and it would be a bunch of some.
35:15
It would be an old doctor or two, and then a bunch of new old
35:20
doctors, like you get Hugh Grant to do an episode.
35:22
And I honestly thought that's what we would get, we didn't.
35:25
But let's talk about the greatest scene in the history of
35:28
doctors are about to watch here. Lies the division.
35:32
Between the division. Get it between what I like, and
35:35
dr. Drew and what my other off like
35:37
some Doc's, right? Does?
35:38
He thinks this scene is like the nadir of the new series
35:42
desperately unfunny and in the middle of all, these are, why
35:45
are we stopping? Just to take the Mickey out of
35:46
this. Oh my God, I'm sorry he's wrong.
35:49
This is hilarious. Yeah, yeah, Mark, you're a
35:53
great, great human. But you are wrong and it's good.
35:57
If I could also write, okay. I have It's this.
36:03
When I first saw it, I titled it this time around.
36:06
He's just such a funny fun character.
36:09
There's a lot of serious stuff going on, but you've got to
36:11
remember that the man dip story and in this is the slightly more
36:17
fun adventure, because they has got to be the levity because
36:20
everything else is, it's the end of the universe.
36:23
So, it's perfectly right to throw something like this.
36:26
And we just got started this sequence, right?
36:28
I remember on first watching, I'm going on, I will system
36:32
Mystical Guru, because he's sitting there all serious as me
36:34
and the second he sort of went, what you didn't bring a book,
36:38
you didn't bring a newspaper, I was like, oh I see what we're
36:40
doing here. Yeah, even I didn't think it
36:42
would end up with him doing that God man Fraser Gregory.
36:52
Okay Ma my bestest friends, he keeps saying things in this
36:55
group chat, we've got inflammatory things and then
36:58
putting that Feller saying I'm teasing you straight afterwards.
37:02
It's gotten a lot of opportunities.
37:04
Well, he's a gift, isn't he? He's the gift that keeps on
37:08
giving? Oh, yeah, bitch, your dog is
37:15
brilliant. Even these how they've mastered
37:23
in the mountains and all that ice.
37:25
Yes, really great. It looks amazing.
37:29
I'm not see, they haven't gone to the Vantage.
37:31
There there is, varying, Carter, but just think how far we've
37:34
come from the Daleks in Manhattan, but I really feel as
37:38
if they've covered a lot of ground.
37:40
And now we're doing that fabulous.
37:41
Marco Polo thing. Oh, following the line on the
37:44
map as he goes across the world China.
37:48
And I know this is a bit of a muppet, mop it.
37:51
Sorry, poppet. Steven Moffat it rip off because
37:55
he did a big wall. Didn't he with hello sweetie?
37:58
Yeah. Yeah, but Doctor, Who, including
38:01
Steven Moffat borrows some of the best bits from itself.
38:05
And it's okay to be nice because it's set up with this massive
38:09
Montage of the pair of like during the pain.
38:12
It's self-referential. And the idea is a good idea of
38:19
the Great Wall of China as a just think this looks amazing.
38:23
Yeah. Wow.
38:27
And we haven't even mentioned that all the extraneous
38:29
characters. Bell vinda, carvings that are
38:32
sort of threaded for this episode as well.
38:34
So we catch up with them enough that we don't forget about them.
38:37
Absolutely. It's and this is you know people
38:39
go the these cramming too much in but he isn't he's playing.
38:43
He's telling the stories he needs to tell in this episode to
38:46
push the plot on while just giving you enough of the other
38:48
ones and I agree and I had no trouble at all keeping up with
38:53
what's going on here. I think I said sure.
38:54
Earlier, I said I could understand why somebody who
38:57
prefers simple narrative would reject this.
39:00
Yeah. But for me, while I like a lot
39:03
going on and I enjoy laughing and I enjoy Revelations and this
39:07
best soap in here as when I love a soap opera.
39:09
So yeah, it's got everything. All the ingredients are one and
39:13
characters. Bring your production value.
39:15
Like I'm a happy man. Yeah.
39:18
No me, too. I like this quick fired up to.
39:22
I do think there's room for slower.
39:24
It's like things like in the forest of the night and do
39:29
people really dislike that but I could I think that such a
39:32
magical version of Doctor Who that I can watch anytime and
39:35
it's the complete opposite of this.
39:37
I'll tell and how kind of you to sign up for that episode of very
39:42
generous, man, with your time. Well we'll add that to the list
39:45
of the other four thousand episodes.
39:47
We've got the legs up back in a fucking car but I would, I will
39:52
absolutely revisit that with you.
39:54
Did I have a bill? What's going on now?
40:01
Come on. I'll wishing it whole universe
40:04
our way. Yeah.
40:05
And this is this, the point where she drops, the, whatever
40:07
can be compressed could be decompressed.
40:10
Well, yeah, it is. Sort of, I don't think the whole
40:13
thing of the universe. Going back to normal is Everest
40:17
to explicitly stated, but from that line, you kind of go.
40:20
Okay? We can, we can reverse this.
40:23
I don't think that's enough, though.
40:24
I think something should have been explicitly stated in the
40:27
Vanquish because a lot of people went into every dollar is going.
40:30
Well, she's off on a little romp in a way arouse.
40:32
After Universe has just been the fastest of the warehouse is the
40:35
only bit of the universe that still exists but is contained
40:47
and it's a few characters and it's another feather in journals
40:51
bow, you know. Yeah.
40:53
Yeah. It's our moral character focused
40:55
on plot focused. Yeah.
40:57
And it's a wonderful episode but it's one of my favorites here
41:00
for the, Daleks, the director. I've worked with a few times
41:05
when she wasn't a director and I dropped a little message
41:08
afterwards, and she was very pleased with her to hear from me
41:12
because she's heard from Joe. Four-door, I she shot those
41:15
Daleks Like some of the best art Direction.
41:18
I think I've ever seen. Absolutely, she does a great
41:21
job. Now, we've got another sort of
41:23
man from the ministry saw here, straight out, classic Doctor Who
41:26
this alarm, Rose? Mr. Is the chin.
41:29
Yeah, but I only think of him the season, it's a sin as me.
41:33
He's the guy that takes the little wild boy to New York.
41:38
And he's a dirty. Dirty old man, desperately
41:40
uncomfortable seeing. We're trying to get him to sit
41:42
on the bed. Yeah, but it's a lovely.
41:46
Lovely. This is another little
41:48
throwback. I think this gives you enough
41:50
throwback to the classic Doctor Who without having to CGI
41:53
Sergeant been turned into a scene or something like that.
41:56
Yeah, which we can't afford to do.
41:58
I would have been all over that shit as well but I and just like
42:01
mr. Chin, you know, like stuffing
42:03
his face the whole time not just, but it's really good
42:05
because it actually does show there is some resistance to, to
42:08
the ground serpent as well. It's not like everyone in unit
42:11
has just bowled over and let him take over.
42:14
Yeah, which is quite nice. I really like the fact that unit
42:20
was created for something as simple as a sontaran stooge as a
42:26
part of a great month and of the Saunders.
42:29
But yeah, I think that's fine. Like we know other things lead
42:33
into it in terms of the things of the Yeti and the Cybermen and
42:37
stuff like that. But yeah, of course, there was,
42:39
there was a bigger influence than that, this scene here,
42:42
right? I'm Not only was getting flashes
42:45
of Terror of the autons. The fella bear attacks in the
42:47
car, but also seeds of Doom. Where the chauffeur is in the
42:53
front of the I'm actually, was has given us.
42:55
Lots of little touches of Li use lots of touch, the classic Who
43:00
and I do. But also, I love the fact that
43:01
dismantling of unit was such a long game as well.
43:06
Played by chibnall, because everybody went nuts for when he
43:11
got rid of unit in a line. And he said, he deliberately did
43:14
that. He said, I deliberately did
43:16
that. So he could reform it again.
43:18
Yeah, I think just like it wasn't just like we're just
43:21
missing this part of Doctor Who was always part of this plan.
43:24
Yeah, I mean, it's like when J and T gets rid of the Sonic
43:27
Screwdriver, it means that, you know, things get a little bit
43:30
harder for the doctor, in that Back to Basics approach of Mike.
43:33
The because the the problem you have whenever the doctor lands
43:36
on contemporary Earth you go, why doesn't he?
43:39
Or she just bring unit in the Army, to blow everything up.
43:43
So great joke as well. I know we've talked about that
43:46
woman. And it was a nice connection to
43:50
her there. We should just go when's the
43:55
last time and I gave Invasion happened in part of that big
44:00
underwear there. I think he's in his traditional
44:04
sort of 1800's 1900s underwear. It's not what I would classes
44:08
underwear Jan Lewis. Yes, that's fabulous.
44:13
Doesn't she in this? Yeah, waistcoat.
44:16
Okay, so we're finally picking up a bought.
44:18
These bloody tunnels were all about and Liverpool?
44:20
Yeah, but I mean, we get that over these next few episodes and
44:23
it makes sense, it's, it's such a good little explanation of
44:29
just like a sort of historical artifact that I know they would
44:32
have done a whole episode on it at some point, probably, but it
44:35
works just as well in this episode.
44:38
This, I think this adventure with Jericho, yeas and Dan had
44:43
the same potential. As, you know, they did the LIE.
44:46
The year of Martha to cover that year where she was going.
44:50
We're doing sort of anti Master propaganda and then they did
44:53
trenzalore Tales which was the dogged every time sort of a
44:56
companion or a doctor spends a long time.
44:58
Yeah. In slit.
44:59
And you could have done a great sort of series of big finishes
45:03
or book. Couldn't you just expand it?
45:06
They just weren't really doing much alive.
45:08
This point, no. But I'm sure it will happen at
45:10
some point. I'm sure.
45:12
Big finish must have the license to this here.
45:14
And now, it's over. I'm I would think so, it's just
45:16
a case of who they can get them when they can get them out on
45:19
the time. Lash boys, I was so excited
45:21
about this fellow John Joseph William, the actor, who is he?
45:26
I've never heard of it before. Let me, let me have a look on
45:29
the Wikipedia. I would like they were desperate
45:31
for him to be in Doctor Who so that just made the episode for
45:33
him in the Halloween apocalypse. What's the name of this
45:36
character? Williamson.
45:41
Mmm. Yeah.
45:43
Steve or mmm? Oh, best known for being in the
45:47
Ben Wheatley film sightseers? I don't know.
45:50
Maybe I was, it was nice of that, though, with Williamson.
45:54
And with honestly floor, I was once a Florence Nightingale,
45:58
it's not first night. Yeah.
45:59
Oh, it's all right. Oh, Mary Seacole that he is
46:05
seeking in a bit of history as well.
46:07
Yeah, when I say he's touching on sort of all the different
46:09
things top, so you can do lots of future, lots of past, lots of
46:12
present. I like that me too.
46:16
It's Doctor Who in a microcosm, the flux.
46:19
Yeah, it's not even a microcosm. It's a macrocosm episodes of the
46:25
whole thing is more locations in this and about five and a half
46:29
seasons of the conductor's through and it getting cutting
46:36
back to this conversation could be could be dull but they're,
46:42
they're just playing it so well. And it's directed so well.
46:47
It's like to feel like Tech Titan has a lot of power and
46:51
it's less the dollar more, the performers she's so kind of
46:55
casual. Yeah but about massive Concepts
46:58
but she's almost the impetus for Doctor.
47:00
Who at this point you're kind of going.
47:02
This is the person that she found, the doctor did all these
47:06
experiments. And, you know, this is the
47:08
person, this is this is Sydney Newman, the Creator.
47:12
She's also the biggest threat to Doctor Who are far.
47:16
But she wants to wipe out every good deed.
47:19
The doctor is dumb. She is both Sydney Newman and
47:22
Michael grade and wrong someone, right?
47:32
That's my black archive. For adverse books, I'm going to
47:35
write about this and say and say how she is a representation of
47:39
those two figures from the doctor, who is the creator and
47:43
the Destroyer. So funny on that Season, 22
47:48
documentary, they had of him and Matthew Sweet.
47:50
And he goes, well, I'm sorry. But did you watch doctor at the
47:53
time? I canceled it.
47:54
Do you consider that a good? A good use of the taxpayers
47:57
money? She keep on repenting and
48:00
repenting, what a guy he's just he's just telling his stories
48:05
that he's told for years and years and the same way as Colin.
48:08
Baker, does she While Marty Lee like this scene?
48:15
Yeah, I do think. I do think she's better in this
48:19
season and she is in previous Seasons.
48:23
Well, I do think he quite liked her in imperil, the doctors,
48:27
although that is this season. Yeah.
48:28
Yeah. So I feel like coming back, I
48:32
don't know whether chibnall writes a better whether she's,
48:34
you know, had a couple of drama lessons but she's been acting
48:38
for Years. Also, a picture of erisa as a
48:40
keyed acting, you know, Yeah. It's my I think it's the role
48:44
and just how it's written. And now she's chosen to portray.
48:47
But like, when you give her a fun moment another bit where the
48:49
doctor decides to a of the dr. Joanna, come at the Tardis and
48:52
she's like a giddy skulking. Yeah, I just when the doctor
48:57
seems to your life before that she goes away.
48:59
Don't start. All right.
49:01
I do wonder whether they've written her purposely a bit like
49:05
the Brigadier and she's trying to play a bit like Nick Courtney
49:08
but actually you need more bubble and Charisma than that.
49:12
Nick Courtney was a very specific kind of straight man.
49:15
I guess you'd say I mean not personally but reportedly but
49:21
you know he was he bought his own humor by being the in
49:24
Charisma by being so utterly straight against the doctor and
49:28
it was weird because pertwee's. Also almost the straight man but
49:31
his mocking Courtney's performances in mannering of
49:35
Doctor Who yeah I'm serious that he's hilarious.
49:38
Yeah exactly. He's just so serious, she's very
49:41
dull. All yeah, yes I think that's I
49:44
think that's a real problem. The only trick I think we missed
49:47
here by this know, being a bigger episodes are large and
49:49
seen her doing some of this investigation just telling us,
49:52
right? Well I've been looking at your
49:54
files and your funding and oh look it's yeah.
49:57
But there's only so much time. Yeah.
50:00
Where is Oscar though? I really don't know why.
50:03
No one's bringing Osgood back. Because she works better with
50:06
Osgood as well. If you do it early.
50:09
Founders. Yeah, exactly.
50:11
Oscar's got the Charisma so you're like a chainsaw.
50:19
All right I'm surprised. She's not wearing the Tom Baker
50:21
Underpants. Is this really where Kate
50:25
Stewart lives? Like not his life.
50:28
Yeah, sure. Remember not anymore.
50:30
Yeah, true. But remember Nick kourtney's
50:33
house in Battlefield, that grand house She gets this place in
50:37
chizik somewhere. However that was Doris is mine.
50:39
That was, was it he fucked into money?
50:42
I'm tired of fuck what to Doris do?
50:45
What I should stashes? Oh, Countess also Allah.
50:47
I just want a very rich family. She's connected.
50:50
Well then she should have some of that money.
50:52
Right. I'm assuming Doris is long dead.
50:55
Yeah. I wish you mean the Doris has a
50:56
mother then? Yeah, I think so.
50:59
Okay. Oh, my back to delve into her
51:02
again. Jesus cross Hill, has so much
51:04
happening earlier. I know it's all go in the world
51:07
of the flux. Oh, this is fabulous as well,
51:09
because we've got a zit Bell versus carbon mr.
51:12
Is that it's another spin-off are one as well, when they woke
51:17
up yet. Absolutely.
51:19
It's weird. Because it does feel like at the
51:21
end of this, you bought these couple of spin-offs and it's the
51:23
end of an era and it's like, I mean, I know chip Nails on
51:27
record as saying he had some ideas for spin-offs but they
51:29
just didn't have the money but I don't Resume.
51:31
It was any of these because it was towards the end of his time.
51:34
But I say as well innovator the yeah.
51:37
Yeah. But I think in the last three
51:40
stories either the Daleks legend of the sea Devil's power of the
51:44
doctor. He is sort of leading to
51:46
continuity in an extreme way. Yeah, I know it was quite nice.
51:50
It was so much Innovation here. Yeah.
51:52
Absolutely I know you know, he's pretty much set up a spin-off in
51:55
the in the power of the doctor as well with the unit and old
51:59
companions. I don't think it's the last
52:01
time. We see Sophie aldred all Janet
52:03
Fielding on our screens, which is a bizarre sentence to say the
52:06
year 2023. What?
52:09
I don't think it. I think it's not true that, that
52:13
line about Rusty Davis saying, can you please put me away and
52:15
we're going to, we're going to use her.
52:17
Can you? Please saw I wonder if he had
52:19
something to do with that scene. Know what's coming on?
52:22
Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me. I don't think for anybody
52:25
listening out there, I don't think you're gonna get any in
52:27
spin-off, unfortunately. Not unless, It was just somebody
52:32
struggling to eat soup. Let's do that.
52:35
Joseph Williams is doors, are all marked and or nine just said
52:39
death, death death, but this is the head of Khan.
52:44
What? So, what was through the death
52:45
door? That's probably that, you know,
52:47
where they run through and is that massive volcano going here?
52:50
Oh, that would make sense. I mean, that is an episode in
52:52
itself, the door, the tunnels that go through two different
52:56
locations. Yeah, it's a brilliant idea and
52:59
you, but you don't need it to be.
53:01
You don't need it to be a full episode, you can just, you can
53:04
use it as part of this and I think it works.
53:08
Well, it just means that to me by a kind of thrown away.
53:12
Big ideas on single sings is a doctor who is just this catalyst
53:17
is so much creativity. There's like we can throw all
53:20
these ideas of waiting room because we've got even more come
53:22
in. But also if they're good enough,
53:24
people will pick them up. Again, Doctor Who, as we've
53:27
already said, is not opposed to picking up its own ideas and
53:32
reusing them again and again. So I wouldn't be surprised that
53:35
visual of having the snake. Tattoo.
53:38
If you're an octave of the grand serpent, the Sasha brilliant
53:43
visual of like, who's not on our side?
53:46
Yeah. And who's working for him, you
53:48
know, otherwise you'd be like, well, who's who's what, you
53:51
know, straight away, you know, right is, He's the bad guy and
53:54
these will be working for him. Yeah it's a very good idea and
53:58
it works very well and we've got the sontarans coming back and
54:02
this story but this episode and the next make the thumb the
54:05
sontarans a threat that they have never been before.
54:09
They're supposed to be these war-loving race who are actually
54:12
a bit silly and constantly defeated and it in this, they
54:15
are the big bad and they are with the Daleks and the side of
54:18
them and you know they conquer the earth I think and we're
54:23
obviously not there in this episode.
54:24
I think that's my favorite part. Of the entire season.
54:28
Yeah, it's a it's as Marvel universe as dr.
54:31
Whoever gets. And they pull it off and the
54:35
score any. But we'll get there.
54:37
We'll get there. Oh, here comes our two fabulous
54:39
Camp Williams. Yeah.
54:41
And what I do love about this now is they show up and just to
54:46
show their power and not, it's a wise thing to do.
54:51
They just get rid of tech team and it's like, oh God, yeah,
54:54
these people are more powerful than Anything can this is the
54:57
reason why there was such a threat to division the first
55:01
time around and why division needed to track them down and
55:04
lock them up. What I also like is it makes
55:07
sense because there's a line in this as we needed.
55:10
They needed all the power from those people that they were
55:12
putting into passenger in order to make a bridge to get to
55:16
division. Absolutely.
55:18
Otherwise, I can't seem to like well what were we doing there
55:20
though? It was the purpose of them
55:21
getting here and then it's here. This is where they've got all
55:25
the equipment. But that plan in place tracker
55:28
stroy and recreate the universe destroying again.
55:32
I mean again, enormous ideas? Yeah, brilliant ideas.
55:37
And of course, that, of course, that's what they do is they're
55:41
the ultimate Doctor Who body in that respect there they are.
55:45
Just the antithesis of. What?
55:47
Why did why did dr. Anybody's want to destroy the
55:49
universe constantly? Because it's fun and they want
55:52
to see it happen again. And again and again just to sort
55:55
of piss off the doctor a bit. They are the quintessence of
55:58
evil. Yes.
55:59
Also a bit minty as well. Yes, we're just the way I like
56:03
about dr. Yvette me too.
56:06
Oh look at this trailer for The Next Episode.
56:08
Yeah, Alex Cybermen. Kate Stewart on a the works and
56:14
thousands of spaceships and the sontarans looking evil as hell.
56:20
Our words the thing that's definitely not long barrier but
56:26
got us very excited for us yet. And you know as we do the
56:31
vanquishers I'm sort of going to take off your AA.
56:33
Have we satisfactorily dealt with that plot?
56:36
Yeah. Think having watch this back
56:38
this week. I think a lot of it is it's just
56:41
a few threads left hanging. But I'm wondering that's
56:46
deliberate. Yeah, I mean it's difficult to
56:48
say whether it's deliberate when you're handing over to a
56:50
different show runner isn't it? And only time will tell I would
56:56
be how sure a lot of fans are about Rusty.
56:59
Davis, not picking up on any of this stuff.
57:00
I would love it. If the next three episodes were
57:03
just a continuation of flux and the time this child just to piss
57:08
everybody off, I don't think it will be.
57:09
But I've got a I've got a theory that in the 60s.
57:13
Specials. He's going to celebrate dr.
57:16
Who, and he's not going to not include that era of dogs.
57:19
Who whatever is personal opinion, is of that era?
57:23
Oh, I think he loves it anyway. Oh yeah, I will cause, I mean,
57:26
we have so much power of the doctrine when he went.
57:28
It was just like an adrenaline rush but Doctor Who has written
57:31
by an eight-year-old if the excited Fury and it was you
57:35
know, that's what was amazing about.
57:37
What I'll say is you'll you'll know what how the current
57:40
production team feel about it? If there's a flaw Back, which
57:44
inevitably there will be of all the past doctors and the War
57:47
Doctor is there. But the Roof Doctor isn't,
57:50
that's what I read that, that's when I would say.
57:52
I don't think he would ever do that.
57:54
I just don't either. I don't sew but we shall see or
57:57
find out, won't we? I know that was a adrenaline
58:01
right that episode. It was well, let's see what
58:05
happens next. Whether we could continue this
58:07
adrenaline ride to a satisfactory climax.
58:12
Well, okay. Okay, indeed before we do go,
58:20
I'm gonna ask you one question though, go on and that is
58:23
because you were less certain about villager the Angels, not
58:28
because it wasn't a good piece of Television, but because it
58:32
was a bit of an aberration in this season of Doctor Who are
58:37
you on more short footing now? Yes, I am.
58:40
Absolutely and it's quite interesting because we're
58:43
recording I think we recorded earlier episodes a little bit
58:46
ahead of on the time, last which I mentioned before, and, as we
58:49
recording this, they've just done their Village of the Angels
58:51
episode and they said, about a similar thing of, like, it is
58:56
great, but it's all things we've seen before.
58:59
And what I'm getting here is all things I haven't seen before.
59:03
I know there's been the odd, you know, nod to the Past, I'll see
59:06
ya. But I'm I'm here for this style
59:09
of Storytelling of this style of story and yeah, I'm back on
59:12
track after a Bubble of something that as I said, and
59:16
that episode, I didn't think it was bad, it's great Doctor Who,
59:19
but I just didn't particularly like its placement in this
59:22
season. And the thing that baffles me
59:25
the most is how I absolutely adore this season is so densely
59:30
art-based season. Yeah, and yeah, I can't bear
59:33
season 6 which is doing exactly the same thing but we'll get
59:37
there. Well, we'll get there and who
59:40
knows? Maybe it'll make you reconsider.
59:42
It probably won't. But I'm going to have a pair of
59:44
sexy Geeks coming at me. But how could I possibly resist?
59:49
Well, I mean, who knows by the end of that episode.
59:54
Only be very horny, but my entire perception of Mafia who
59:57
will have been turning? No, I'm not.
1:00:01
Well, we'll get to that after we've witnessed the vanquishers.
1:00:06
Yeah, let's do it. But I got cut it there.
1:00:11
Oh, yes, that was fun. That was a lot of fun.
1:00:14
That's great. Positive.
1:00:16
Oh, wait, we were and lots to say.
1:00:18
I mean, the good thing about these episodes are there is so
1:00:22
much to say because the so much going on.
1:00:25
Even if you run dry for a second, you just have to look at
1:00:27
the screen and go home or somewhere else.
1:00:30
I love languages like I'll say it will be breathless.
1:00:35
The, we gonna do that that there's three fucking Jodi's.
1:00:41
Lots of wrap up, he's like a while.
1:00:43
Can't do it. While I'm not gonna need story
1:00:49
was our best episode, you know, earlier when we recorded that,
1:00:51
yeah, not convinced that Help. I think it might be the
1:00:55
vanquishes. Oh yeah, I know, I think I think
1:00:57
we, well, you know, we'll come to that in the podcast but it
1:00:59
did it. It certainly.
1:01:01
I mean, she's just got better and better throughout all these
1:01:03
episodes and she started off in a high place for me.
1:01:07
Anyway, so the fact that Jodi, which could get a chance to
1:01:10
flirt with herself. I know, I'm missing a Stickley.
1:01:14
Well, you just say all those sort of people saying Doctor
1:01:18
Who's to woke fainting and I was like, yeah.
1:01:22
But the master did it a few Seasons ago.
1:01:24
And everybody was loving that because the tenth planet
1:01:26
Cybermen mother but the Masters woman, what are those?