Latest / Storied Account with Jen Jumba / Mark Stevens: Two Truths and a Lie
Transcript
- Jennifer Jumba: This is a story to count with Jen Jumba. In conversations with writers, something magical happens. And as readers, we begin to see them as human beings and not just the name on the spine of a book. My hope is through these conversations, you learn about their craft, them as a person, and you'll become like me, fiercely loyal, want to read their current book, entire backlist, or any future book they write. And when you see their name, you want to support them, not only as the incredible storytellers, but the thoughtful individuals you have come to know. My guest today is Mark Stevens. He's the author of the Flynn Martin thriller series, including No Lie Lasts Forever and Two Truths and a Lie, which just published, so happy pub week. The Fire Baller, the Alison Coyle mystery series, including Antler Dust, Buried by the Rhone, Trapline, Lake of Fire, and the Melancholy Howl. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Thank you. Jennifer Jumba: Mark is an award winning writer, buried by the rhone, trapline and lake of fire were all finalists for the Colorado Book Award. Trapline won. Mark has published several short stories in Ellery Queen Magazine, Mystery Tribune and Denver Noir. Denver Noir went on to win the Colorado Book Award for the best anthology in 2023. I have read several city Noir books and found them to be not only fantastic stories, but also a great introduction to writers who might be new to you. Mark was one of three co-editors for Four Corner Voices, an anthology of fiction, essays, and poetry that won the Colorado Book Award for Best Anthology in 2025. You see there's a trend, he continues to write and win. In 2016 and again in 2023, Mark was named the Rocky Mountain Fiction Writer of the Year. For 10 years, Mark has hosted a regular podcast for Rocky Mountain Fiction Writers. You can check it out on YouTube. A little nervous now, because he knows what podcasts are supposed to sound like. He has also served as the president of the Rocky Mountain Chapter for Mystery Writers of America and regularly publishes reviews on his review website. Now, I was fortunate enough to moderate a panel with Mark last fall at a conference and read the first in the Flynn Martin series. instantly a fan of his storytelling as well as Flynn as a character. And I am so happy to see the series of Flynn continue. So thanks for joining in. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Thank you so much, Jennifer. Great to see you. Great to be in conversation. I appreciate it. Jennifer Jumba: No problem. Can you introduce us to this adventure in the Flynn Martin series? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Sure. Well, I think the way to set it up kind of is to say at the outset that when I wrote No Lie Lasts Forever, the first book in the series, which has its own long backstory because I wrote the first draft 24 years ago and it was a book that stayed in my and my other projects for a long, long time and finally made its way to its first editor. ⁓ just about two years ago and she, the first editor who ever read it and bought it, but that's its own little publishing journey, agent woes kind of mayhem that every writer goes through. But when ⁓ No Lasts Forever sold, in my mind, I think in my agent's mind, there was a standalone, it was a one and over and out, call it good book. The editor who read it said, no, in fact, this will be a trilogy. because when she said that, I just kind of shrugged my shoulders and said, how the heck is that going to happen? Because without too much away, the bad guy has been caught. He's off to prison. And she said, make it work. The old Tim Gunn line from Project Runway, guess. Make it work, people. Make it work. And so I just kind of went back into No Lie before it got published and created a few little cracks ⁓ the eggshell of the story so that book two could leak out. So I'd be glad to just give a little overview of the situation for both books if that would help here. ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: Absolutely, absolutely. And I need to write a thank you note to the editor who said this is a trilogy. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Jessica Triglewell, so yep, she's basic premise for No Light Lasts Forever is a case of mutual redemption. You have a retired serial killer, a guy hiding in plain sight. He's very happy. content to have successful 15 years ago. His last crime was 15 years prior. He is hoping to go down in history as having never been caught. He's a bureaucrat for the State Department of Education in Colorado. He's working human resources. He's a classical music fan. He just is going about his life and hoping that his legacy is intact. The other main character is a female, a veteran female television reporter who makes a mistake in the middle of a dicey situation that's being and being watched all over Metro Denver. And because of her mistake, an innocent person is killed and she is taken off air by her station. When a new serial killer, when a new serial murder victim turns up that looks very much ⁓ like the work of our retired guy, he is furious because he doesn't want any digging into his old cases. He doesn't want a new spark that fires up a whole new investigation his legacy. And also he's just furious that anybody is trying to copy his handiwork. So he knows she ⁓ is in of redemption as well. She needs to get her job back. And if he can... feed her the right information, she can work her way through figuring out who committed this new crime. At she is extremely wary disbelieving that this is the same guy who could have committed all these crimes 15 years ago. So she dismisses his to reach to her and ⁓ ... He finally convinced, in a very dramatic way, he convinces her it's him. So just quickly at the end of book one, after all the other shenanigans that happened in book one, it's pretty well wrapped up as far as he is concerned. And that's not too much of a spoiler. But at the beginning of book two, she's trying to get back to her journalistic life. She gets on a story about a family that's disappeared their house. And that beginning, as she's digging into that, she starts getting notes from another anonymous ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: Yeah, it is an incredibly suspenseful book for sure. Both of them And Flynn Martin is the, the, the journalist, the on camera got her career back on track after being able to capture, not really a spoiler, won't say how. and so she she kind of everything, back together, her life back together, her, her sense of self back together. because that was a very uncomfortable grisly situation. and so she moves ⁓ and she to a new building thinking clean start, clean slate, and she also has a young son. And so all of a sudden to go to show up where this family of four just disappeared and then find a note on her car. especially in today's world where, everybody seems to have ring cameras, ⁓ everybody to be filming something or taking a photo of something. It's just incredible. And so then I, as reader, felt probably just as unsettled as Flynn did. how does how does he know? How does you know this person know she is, when she's going to be there? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: That's the idea. That's the idea. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah. and it's tough because she gains attention two ways. First with the catastrophic, air in the thing that her station pulled her from that kind of inspired the guy. And then she's back on air and everybody knows who she is. I mean, and we see that a lot. we see news people, we see athletes, see, celebrities and we kind of think we know them. You know, they can't go to the grocery store like you and I would. Well, maybe you can't because you're, you know, an award winning writer, but. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: can, nobody knows me. Jennifer Jumba: it's ⁓ kind of like anonymity that we kind of have as ⁓ normal people that isn't afforded to somebody who chooses that as a career. So can you talk a little bit about that and how that influenced the story? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Sure, I mean, I think you're spot on. ⁓ She is carrying around a bit of baggage. And fact that it happened on television, that people can talk about, I think we can look at any given day you open up the news and see some of characters who just get into our mainstream consciousness and are put on these viral videos that just, they a real staying power. in the public's mind. So in Denver, she was a pretty well-known very well-known reporter. If you're a reporter in the same town for about 20 years, you're gonna be well-known to begin with. If you make a mistake and a mistake that looks like a mistake of kind of hubris and overconfidence in your own self, and you're vilified for mistake and you feel tragedy, mean, Flynn Martin certainly feels the tragedy of what happened to the innocent person who's killed. She is of climbing her way back into kind of getting back to even keel with the public, her relationship with the public. And Two Truths and a Lie starts, think it's about a year and a half after the events in No Lie So she's already done some of the processing, but The Two Truths starts Harry, the end of Harry's trial when he's being sentenced. And well, at the end his trial. And... So we sort of pick up on that, but we still see that Flynn is haunted, definitely haunted by everything that's happened. And everywhere she goes, people bring it up. Jennifer Jumba: Right. I think it's interesting. There's a line in the book talking about, that hauntingness is once you believe something, everything becomes evidence to support your view of the world. I just think how true that is. We can mention something here and then we just have this hyper awareness and we'll see it everywhere, hear it everywhere. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah. And Flynn is battling that the whole time with her sources she's trying to develop with people she knows in the business or existing contacts. I think, you know, there's a predictability sometimes for reporters knowing even ahead of time when they call this person with that organization, they're going to get that kind of a comment. They already know the point of view it's been established. today's world, and I think it's terrible, there's not willingness to step back from a position and look at new facts that are coming in or new trends or new data, or just reconsider your opinion, whether you're a private citizen or you're a paid representative for a government organization or a private company, you're paid ⁓ to have views. ⁓ And it really model curiosity or just openness to the fact that the world might be changing and there might be new information that's valuable about understanding how the world ticks. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah, you bring up a point, it was a theme that I kind of noticed throughout this book in terms of media and what their responsibility is in terms of communicating. And there's a line, a big responsibility broadcasting irresponsible, false or harmful information. The news or media's role is to inform, not to mislead. So I think I agree 100 % is that, you you're only hearing that perspective. There might be 10 other facets, but you won't know those 10 other facets as a viewer because you're only told so many. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah. happened today, there's so many, the media has fractured into so many splinters and there are organizations that look like media and appear like media and go through all the same motions that when they publish or when they air a story, they look legitimate. but the legitimate news organizations that have a process for fact checking that are willing to be held accountable to the people that they're covering and will make corrections, make, follow-up stories, who publish breaking news. then the day there's a new iteration, a new insight into what happened will go through a process of really ⁓ making sure that they're doing the best job to be accurate. Those folks are different than these crackpots who trying to make it look like they've done the same kind of homework and research as the legitimate news organization. So Flynn and all these other folks who are trained and feel responsible, feel responsible for putting out good information. those people still exist and they should be respected by our communities and not, know, be the target of ⁓ tomatoes that are being thrown every day at these folks. Jennifer Jumba: I agree. think sometimes there's a race to be first versus a race to be right. And, dare I say as a librarian in terms of information and finding critical information that is vetted, that is fair balanced, it is, it is a skill. And in today's day and age, when so many things are coming at us, not everybody's going to take the time to vet something or is this really credible type of information in the sources? Cause that takes time. And it's something that we don't seem to have a lot of anymore. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: So true. Yep, exactly. Jennifer Jumba: ⁓ can talk a little bit about this amazing group of people that Flynn is surrounded by from, Max to to Mika. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah, know, with having a female lead, you know, I wanted to give her even in the first book, because the No Lie Lasts Forever, antagonist is I didn't think it would work to have a male TV reporter. thought it would be more interesting and more dynamic to have a ⁓ lead and to give her a young son. He's ten and. No lie lasts forever and I think he's 12 in Two Truths and a Lie. she can be extra protective about him. She's a single mom. She has a good relationship with her ex Max, who a cop. And she a really good relationship with her boss, Rick Goodman, who's pretty steady egg in her world. She has a caring relationship with Wyatt and she has a really important relationship with her father, Michael, who is a veteran print journalist, former print journalist who's now a citizen journalist doing his own thing, but still following his same old processes. And he somebody who's always kind of looked askance at her decision to go into the more show busy television side of things, but of course loves her and respects her. So you have Michael the father, Max the ex, Wyatt the son, Rick the boss. And because she's a single mom, of course we've got to start thinking about a new love interest in Two Truths. And she's got new boyfriend circling around as well. So I wanted to make there were a of guys in her orbits. Jennifer Jumba: And I just, wonder if her behavior is influenced having a lot of guys in her life because she has this sense of fearlessness, where, you some people would say, well, let's just hold off and wait on that. she'll, no, she'll go in and, and ⁓ investigate something or look for something nobody else is around. ⁓ You don't have cell service or incredibly hot or it's late night. It's great. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah, I don't know the motivation necessarily. think I don't know if Flynn would need that. She is I think her father's of tenaciousness is what she's picking up on just pouring that into her medium, television. I have spent 20 years in news a journalist and a of those years in television news. And print or broadcast, I've met so many thoughtful, smart, driving, talk fearless women who will knock on any door any time of night. Their goal is to figure out what's going on and get the story. And there are plenty of people out there who just understand the importance ⁓ of not letting any of shyness or from government or private organizations get in their way. Jennifer Jumba: I completely agree in terms of the tenaciousness of Flynn, is fun. And I'm glad that you chose to highlight that, especially in today's world, that we kind of a little bit differently or question a little bit differently where we're getting our news or who's telling the news story to make sure that we're getting the whole story, that it's transparent, that it's not slated towards view or agenda versus another. And ⁓ comes up a lot in the book in terms of what are chosen to be reported. And ⁓ that ⁓ cadence terms of, there's a great line there about people wanting to know, how do you reach a decision about what gets airtime and how much resources to throw at a story? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Right, right. Jennifer Jumba: And it's a great question. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: It's so random if you really stop and think about it and you really stop and think about the size of a city of Denver, New York, Chicago, LA, whatever it might be and the number of reporters running around covering stories. ⁓ are so many factors and it can be so random. I sometimes watch the national news and there might be a little bus crash nobody was hurt, but there's dramatic footage of the bus in the river or something. And why that national news? It's just because there's dramatic footage. looks sensational. looks, you're instantly telling the viewer to imagine if that, if you're a parent of a kid in that school bus, you're, you're them a shock. It is not national news that a bus ran into a river and nobody was hurt. And this happens in Metro Denver on a daily basis. It's a product of much ⁓ from, know, it's always been interesting to me that government agencies and occasionally private companies, they'll spend a lot of money to try to attract reporters to cover something. And they'll throw a press conference and nobody will come. And a couple of straggler reporters might come or they'll send out some B-team ⁓ and they will spend a lot of money to try to draw people into something good they're doing. And the minute something goes awry and the reporters all come out, then they spend a lot of money trying to get those reporters to go away. Like, don't, you know, let's not give them everything. Let's make sure that they, that this story ends, kill this story, make sure it doesn't happen. Well, throughout any day, I mean, of course there are the major stories and we can all... Imagine what those might be and they're horrific in some cases. But there is just these kind of conversational issues that one day a TV station could stop. They could spend a week looking at child poverty or the foster care system or hunger or education or there's just all these things that could be poured into the mix. And when you about the size of any city, Jennifer Jumba: Thank you. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: and the number of reporters trying to cover it. And let's say it's even a small town of 1,200 or 15,000 with one reporter, where 15,000 people, any one of those could be involved in the story on any given day. it's a snapshot. It's always a kind of a crap shoot of what gets covered. And there are some people out there very glad that something and the news media never came around. or they're waiting for it to come around. Jennifer Jumba: I think there's an example in there in the story that talks to that point about a corporation. have like a big product launch and everything is like honed and curated and perfect, but they're at the same time not telling, you know, how they mistreat their women or, you know, how they're polluting the river in order to make that particular product. you know, I think it makes me think we all kind of curate to a certain extent. mean, you kind of probably curate people who you know, you work with is probably a different self than who you are when you're, hanging out with your friends and your family. And so it's just magnified. And as a result, where we're, think we're critical thought is really important in today's world. And if you're not willing to think, about something, ⁓ can be easily swayed. So. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah. Yeah, so true. I think all the time about what's going on behind the scene, what is happening. know, I think a of things occasionally remind us, you know, where our products come from. You know, we hold these phones and run around. How often do we stop and think about the child labor that might be behind them overseas? I just read George Orwell's book Road to Wigan Pier, which was a journalistic book he wrote long before 1984. He went to the coal mines in northern England and documented the coal country and the working conditions, the living conditions, the pay, the health situations and challenges. And this is at a time 100 years ago when was trying to be powerhouse. But how many people really stopped and think about the number of people going down in these dangerous mines every day to keep the country running? It's a fascinating book because it just shows a reporter ⁓ saying, ⁓ want go what's ⁓ really driving this. It's getting into the true cost of ⁓ which is always a valuable thing to do ⁓ a journalist. Jennifer Jumba: without a doubt, it's that curiosity factor, I think. And then also, I guess sometimes we're motivated by money. And if have a chance to go with a big news outlet and this is what they're telling you, you need to cover versus, I'm gonna this on my own and freelance and tell this story of the coal mine or tell the story of ⁓ where your was made or where your tennis shoes were made. and then the protection that those big organizations have to not let access be available tell the story. So, I mean, it is nuanced and complicated and complex and it comes across in this story. I think you do a great job of having a stop really think, you know, who's telling this story? Why is this story being told versus another one? You know, who determines at what point do we stop reporting on it? and move on to another story. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah, I think every reporter should take a look at their last of stories and say, ⁓ was the genesis for this story? Was it a public relations firm that called me up and cajoled me into doing it? Was it a company? Was it a government who asked me to do this story? Or is it something that I asked a question on my own and I went to find it? I went to find the answer. And I believe government's public public and private companies should have the right to suggest and make convincing case. You know, if a school district's graduation rate went through the roof and they're all better and they know exactly what they did to make that better, then the community should know their taxpayer dollars are having a positive impact. I think fine. a reporter in a any news organization should look at ⁓ what's driving their agenda. Because independence and just heading out in the morning on your own question is a lot different than being spoon-fed some information and being asked to put it back out there. Big difference. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah, there's accountability factor, I think, as well as, know, like, news stations, I mean, they're, they're businesses, right? They chase ratings because if they have great ratings, then they have advertisers spending money, which is perpetuates, so certainly understandable. But, with your background as a journalist, I mean, how did you approach stories? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Well, I definitely tried do the right thing. ⁓ And I'm not sure I was aware right at the get-go of how all worked. I know and grew up at time where investigative journalism and any, I was fortunate enough to work in big city newsrooms, both at the Rocky Mountain News and the Denver Post were two of the places I worked in the city of Denver. And at the time I worked, ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: All right. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: were funding investigative that were sitting right beside you in the newsroom and you'd see people come in and they were working on months, months long stories. And you had editors, good editors would come around and be in conversation with you about your choices and editors who encouraging you to dig into data, dig into reports, to look behind the obvious and go find source material. And, you know, if you establish a little bit of a reputation for being willing to do that work, you'll start to get tips from folks who are finger pointing in a good way and saying, if you did that story, you should check this out because things aren't running as well over here either. So you can develop a little bit of a reputation for somebody who's willing to not take the face value material and just regurgitate it. So mean, I have still have all my old clips in a box somewhere and I should go through there someday and reevaluate myself. But I think of several stories I did on big agency and some attempts to play a little shell game with their staff moves and things like that that were trying to sell the public on the fact that they were being frugal. But in fact, they were spending more money and things like that. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah. Is there ever a story or is there a story today that strikes your curiosity factor that if you were to be a journalist today, go cover story, Mark, story of your choice? Is there something that grabs your attention that you're most curious about? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: You know, I think the stories that I ⁓ need today are the ones that are, should be our national consciousness, healthcare. The sheer simple struggle cost of basic human healthcare and the time and juggling of family that happens around healthcare. especially children and also late in life with adults and the cost of elder care, memory care, things like that. Related to that is just the whole of hunger and food. Really just documenting what number of jobs being held by one or two parents trying keep a family up and running these days. And then I think in combination with that, I constantly think about how do schools even begin compete with the entertainment out there that is available to kids on phones and TV screens and just the competing with the couch, the couch as, the center our world sit and consume media. Jennifer Jumba: You Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: and whether it's games and gambling now or Netflix on and on, schools are expected and asked to do so much. And I'm not an apologist for them by any means, but when you really look at how much time kids are in school, you look at 365 days a year, I think it's about 13 or 14 % of the time given 24 hours a day, 365 days a year versus. six, six and a half hours of school day over 180 some days. It's, may, maybe it's more like 18 or 20 percent, but it's a very small amount. And to think that schools are held accountable for, in theory, sending all these kids off to Harvard or something is just a bit ludicrous. Something's got to change. I think things are changing. in the school world a little bit. ⁓ But where that whole conversation with public education is going is fascinating to me, with some of the fracturing going on and some of the creeping in of ⁓ schools through charter mechanisms and things like that. It's ⁓ a real splintering of something that used to pull us all together and tie us all together. Jennifer Jumba: Yes. Yeah, it's interesting here in Cleveland, Cleveland proper that come high school. Students have a choice of which high school to go to. And a lot of it, I think is good. If you know you have an aptitude for engineering, there's a school that focuses on the engineering skills. But in terms of splintering and fracturing, I mean, it's not like all the kids on your street are all going to the same school. I mean, it's kind of good because you have friends at school and you have friends in your neighborhood. the things that used to pull us together where everybody on the street, we gear up for the Friday football games against ⁓ the rival. you have artistic band, there's an art school, if you, or an athlete there's, so it's, it's very interesting to see what's and almost as, as if it's like honing on kids strengths versus like, you have to have this complete education, you know? So. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: It is fascinating and I'm a librarian. So of course, you know, we see, oh, nobody likes to read anymore and kids don't enjoy reading because of the screen. it's a challenge, certainly. You know, I can't imagine not wanting to read books, So, I mean, I always learn something, no matter what I read, I take something away, a place, you know, I want to visit or an issue that becomes more important because I'm seeing it from a different perspective. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Right. know it. Jennifer Jumba: You know, even though I consciously knew whatever I watched on the news is curated, this book really made me stop and think like, how come this story and how come not that story or how come this one only got so much airtime and this got more? Really making me think. So thank you for that. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Thank you. Jennifer Jumba: her experiences as a journalist. And I think about Malcolm Gladwell, and it's like, you have to have 10,000 hours before you become a master at something. it used to be she would be super anxious before she was sent out in the field to cover something. And now she's like doing something right up until the last minute. And then it's like she can flip a switch and, you know, be Flynn Martin, the journalist, I think is really kind of fascinating that you become that comfortable doing something that you're able to just do what you're supposed to do, you know, instead of like agonizing, ⁓ we talk a little bit about her photo journalist, Tamika? Yeah. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah, right. All Mika, sure. Yeah, tenacious, energetic individual who sees herself, I think, primarily as a journalist as well, even though she's the one doing the videography. And she played a big role in No Lie Lasts Forever, also plays kind of a sounding board for Flynn and occasionally will. push her and counter her in key moments. And they have a kind of easy banter around their social and their sex lives, frankly. And just they kid each about that because Tamika is very much a free spirit and much younger, but just feisty and opinionated too. I think they get really well. Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah. They do. It's fun, to be, ⁓ imagine I'm along in the car with them ⁓ because if writing and just listening to the banter back and forth and the sense of humor that they both have, mean, ⁓ things that, doesn't like language wise, like she hates the words foul play, like what other kind of play would it be? ⁓ ⁓ she hates the And it's because I think about how many times I've said it. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Like, is there ugly shore? Like just Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah. Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: fun humor mixed amongst we do. And I think that's the cool thing is that you show that as human beings, we're kind of layered. And we're not all one thing. Flynn's not in your books, just all journalists. She's a journalist, she's a mom, she's a daughter, she's an ex-wife, she has a career, she has friends. Now a love interest in this book, so I'm excited to see for book three. But it's really fun to balance all that because as we go through lives. our own lives. mean, there are moments where we have senses of humor, so, or there's times where we're a little more contemplative. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Great. Right, right, right. Yeah, I mean, you've got to, it's my challenge is to try, just try to, you know, make sure the reader feels like the characters they're reading about really have their feet on the ground, that they're. Three dimensionality is the goal, but of course it's you know, absurd thing to think that ink on the page is gonna create some sort of three dimensionality, but that's the magic and beauty and kind of challenge of what we try to do is use ink to create pictures in your head that are, you know, somewhat layered, like you say, that there's lots of aspects and facets to one life. And you can see there. Three dimensionality is the goal, but of course it's you know, absurd thing to think that ink on the page is gonna create some sort of three dimensionality, but that's the magic and beauty and of challenge of what we try to do is ⁓ ink create pictures in your head that are, you know, layered, like say, that there's lots of aspects and facets to one life. And you can see there. See how they're processing the scenes that they're taking in. It helped the reader process the scene too. See how they're processing scenes that they're taking in. It helped the reader process the scene too. Jennifer Jumba: Right, I think like the genius of what you all can do is you talk about ink on a page and thinking, you and I speak the same words, but put them together in a way that creates this character, who I really, really like, and the dialogue with Tamika, like, I just want to go out and have a glass of wine with the two of them. I think it would be a ton of fun, ⁓ or go to a game with them. I think that would be a ton of fun, ⁓ right? And you're able to do because of the... Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Right. Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: choice of the words you use in the order in which you do them to create that. You also create the setting, about how hot it is, you know, the time that this story takes place, how humid it is and how things are just damp. And I'm like, ⁓ my God, get it been there. ⁓ it was nice to read because was been really cold here. So ⁓ I ⁓ just think it's think a ⁓ And to able to see. ⁓ Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: of their thought process to help understand, the choices that they're making. I mean, they become real people to me as a reader, so I can't imagine what that must be like for you as a writer to create these characters. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Well, it's a lot of practice and it's a lot of just attention to thousands of other great writers who have come before and just sort of watching they do it and ⁓ trying find my own and trying to just ⁓ apply all think we all are basically, you every book is sort of paying some sort of respect to all the books that have come before it. There's no way ⁓ There are some extremely wild individual books that just are completely singular voice. But for the most part, we're playing with some conventions. We're playing with some reader expectations. And I think it's watching and ability pace, keep things moving, also have reflective moments or ⁓ throw in a little deep philosophy here and there, just sort of as you're ahead, it's paying to other great writers and how they things. So I don't know. ⁓ a weird process me. The older I get, the less I feel like can explain it or teach it. I used do and sign up for a fair amount of teaching opportunities. And now I just sometimes don't even know what I would say. just, other than the classic, you know, thing is just keep writing because you do get better. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah. Do you write every day? that part of your routine or how does, are you like somebody who writes early in the morning before the sun gets up or, what does your writing process look like? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah, I'm an early morning guy and I have been since the mid 1980s. It's two hours a day. 90 minutes is fine. If I get two hours, that's great. And it's five o'clock usually till seven o'clock. And I started before we had kids. It was really important that I... had that routine going once we did have a couple of kids because that was really precious time. But now that they're grown and gone, it's my brain just starts at that time. And it's just now ⁓ a habit. don't You know, not a sleep factor. I love the dark. I love the quiet. I love the just sense of peace and focus at that time is terrific. ⁓ Right. Jennifer Jumba: there's a sense of stillness when I'm up that early, know, to row, it's there's a sense of calm and a sense of stillness and something special, like even if it's late at night, and it's still dark and quiet, like, it's not the same as that early morning and still can't quite figure out why Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: I think it's, know, there's the of disruption, interruption, something happening. You can definitely deal with the phone, leave it in another room if you want to, but you can really minimize ⁓ chance disruptions at that time. it's, you become to respect that time and. be spending all day kind of in the background of my mind, knowing where I am in my story and getting ready to think about, so it's time. It's not thinking time when you get up, you're ready to put some words down. ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: taking all those thoughts you did have and yeah, that's fantastic. What's the difference between, writing ⁓ a series because I know you have the, Alison series versus a standalone and now a trilogy. How does that, how's that different? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah. Yeah. Not much different. In fact, the first in the Alison Coyle series thought also was a standalone and then it did pretty well. I written it, I'd written an earlier draft of that book and had on to write some other things. And ⁓ I really it was a standalone. When it did really well, it hit the Denver Post bestseller list, my first book, and it was getting some nice reviews. And then I happened to be talking to a publisher and they were interested in seeing come back for number two. And then I picked up another contract with a company Midnight Ink, which has since gone underground or lost its And they wanted three and four. I mean, I think I sold them on keeping it going too, but. You know, I mean, I just, take your character ⁓ come up with a new challenge for them. It's, is sort of interesting. I kind I mean, I a lot of series. I read a lot of standalones, but standalones are kind of neat because you can actually buy the fact that an amateur detective would maybe get involved in something when you read story after story with an amateur detective, it's Alison Coyle or Flynn Martin. You can credibility in terms of the real world, but then you the readers of crime fiction love a good character and they don't care if they have 20 different murder cases they solve. They want to see Harry Bosch figure it out or whatever it might be time after time after time. ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think about Jessica Fletcher, so long as I don't see her in the hotel I'm checking into, I know I'm good, right? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Cabot Cove is, yeah. Yeah. Jennifer Jumba: Right. Yeah. Yeah. As a reader, I can say, and you're a prolific reader as well, that I enjoy a series. there's something very comforting about, I mean, even though that they're in some tough situations and challenging situations, there's something comforting about coming back to the page to settle in and with Flynn and Tamika for a while and see what Michael's advice is for Flynn. There's a great comfort in that. as a reader. And so you for that. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Well, all know there's darkness every day and we wake up in the morning hoping the darkness doesn't come to our door, but there's darkness coming to doors all over the country every day. ⁓ there is comfort in knowing you can dive into a world where somebody going to go out and confront that darkness. ⁓ And great know who you're riding along with, who's on that horse. Jennifer Jumba: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. without a doubt, think Hank Philippi Ryan that says it's always safe inside of a book. and we read for different reasons. some of us read to learn, some of us read to be entertained, some of us, you know, read to just escape or to see ourselves in a book. So, the gift that you all as give to us as readers is, I don't know how you say thank you for because it's ⁓ such a great gift. the other thing I had to like talking about, fun lines in this, in this story. have the assistant news director Vasquez, talking cause she's, Rick Goodman is, is basically kind of priming her to take over, the news station when he retires. but talking about like, we have a weather desk, how come there's not a murder desk. And it's just these little like as sides, little observational humor that, wow, that's. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Hehehehe. Jennifer Jumba: That's true. So it's quite fun. And then I also think sometimes, as a journalist or a meteorologist, it's so hard to get the weather right. I just, we have all kinds of technology and radar and everything else, and they tell you it's gonna snow and next thing you know, it's sunny. And so things can change rather quickly for sure. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Jennifer Jumba: I've certainly enjoyed talking to you, as we kind ⁓ start to wrap up, story's end. the final questions for you. So question number one. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: I'm ready. I think I'm ready. Jennifer Jumba: If money were no object travel, what would you buy season tickets to? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: I would buy season tickets to see the Boston Red Sox every single day and I would go on the road with them and just take in every inning, every pitch, every dog. I'm a vegetarian so that really wouldn't work, but you know, you get the idea. Jennifer Jumba: Absolutely. No, there's nothing better than being at the ballpark and being able to hear the crack of the bat and the smell and the funk in the glove. Yeah, I agree. ⁓ If you travel with Flynn, Tamika, Goodman, would you travel with? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. boy, wow, Tamika would be so much fun. I'm to take Goodman off the list. I guess it would be Flynn. ⁓ mean, Flynn has had the experience. She's seen so much. I think she would be a very smart companion to have along. just conversation will be endless, Tomiko would make sure you're the dance floor and going out to see music. ⁓ she'd always be down for a yeah, yeah. So choice, but I'll slightly toward Flynn. Great question. Jennifer Jumba: Mm-hmm. Making sure you're worth fed. ⁓ If you couldn't be a writer, what would your other career path be? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Well, bass guitarist for a good touring rock and roll band. I do play bass in couple of bands here in Southwest Colorado and I just love the whole band process of being in a conversation with four or five other bandmates, trying to figure out a song, trying to pull it together and I love playing live. a blast. Jennifer Jumba: this is certainly fun. There's nothing better, I think, than live performances, whether it be ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ a band, whether it be a baseball game, whether it be, another performance. Live is always That interaction, that with the crowd and the person performing. What is your favorite life hack? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Yep. I about this all the time and I wish I knew all the other life hacks, because I think I still do everything the wrong way, especially when it comes to technology. I really don't think of myself as any sort of... Jennifer Jumba: you Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: on any of those fronts. I'm constantly looking over other people's shoulders to see how they do things because I'm the one who's thinking that everything is taking me five times long as it should. ⁓ So I'm not sure I'm the author of any. There be a book or somebody should have a website for those kind. I'm sure there is one. Easy life hacks. Yeah, boy, ⁓ that's a great also. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah. Yeah. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: I'm gonna pass. Jennifer Jumba: Since you play bass guitar, right, and you're in bands, what song would always be on a road trip playlist? Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: I will say Jonathan Richmond and the Modern Lovers, Road Runner. Yeah, one of the all-time great early songs and I'm still a huge Jonathan Richmond fan, I grew I was 10 when the Beatles hit. I loved punk, I grunge, I love today. I get to, have a two-hour show on the local community radio station here in Cortez, Colorado. And I just love soaking up new music and bringing that out every week too. It's just a blast. Jennifer Jumba: Yeah, think it was your book where Ramones got their name, which I thought was quite fun. ⁓ Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: that's a great trivia question. If anybody doesn't know the answer to that one, look it up. It's beetle related. ⁓ Jennifer Jumba: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. And it is Beatle related. then having worked in a classical radio station for several years before I became a librarian, selling commercials or whatever, the, the tidbit about Tchaikovsky and holding his chin. It's just, there's so much fun stuff in here. There's, there's big questions, but there's this ⁓ balance in this harmony where all come together. And so just a wonderful story to Truce and Eli. So thank you to those of you who are listening. Mark, a huge thank you for taking time to talk to us about your latest book, To Truce and Eli, just published. It's in the Flynn Martin series. You have one to read to get caught up. No Lie Lasts Forever. And then I will say that Flynn Martin is a great character who is just as human as she is talented. Mark54.stevens@gmail.com: Thank you, Jennifer. Thank Jennifer Jumba: the kind of journalists we all need on our side. To find out who else is visiting, go to storiedaccount.com. This is Story to Count with Jen Jumba.