Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / What we’re hearing: Making sense of the Cubs’ streaks and Justin Steele’s timeline

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What we’re hearing: Making sense of the Cubs’ streaks and Justin Steele’s timeline · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory File Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Sadi Charma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic Patrick, it's over.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: The losing streak has finally ended. It was a monkey
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: off their backs, as great Council put it, much needed
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: win for a team that just like seemed could not
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: buy one after it seemed like they couldn't lose for
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: a stretch there. Just it was kind of like what
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: we've seen over the past two months has been a
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: little surreal in a sense because it feels like we've
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: packed in a full season worth of roller coaster ride.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I guess worth of a roller coaster ride in two months.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: It's two months of just like a lot of back
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: and forth that you normally that you don't even normally
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: see in a full season. But you know there are
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: ups and downs, but these extremes have have really taken
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: a toll on the mental health of Cubs fans.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I'm curious on on Wednesday night, did you have like
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: a rain jacket on going into the clubhouse in case
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: they were popping champagne bottles for the end of that streak. Yeah,
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I mean it's bizarre. It made me think too, like
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: last September that's where the Cubs clinched their playoff spot
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: when Kyle Tucker was noticed with those and that was
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: a side memory of Pittsburgh. But yeah, what was what
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: were the vibes like in the visiting clubhouse at PNC
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Park at the end of that streak.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I'll say this, even before the game, I commented to
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: a reporter it was like, does it seem a little
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: bit more like maybe it was just because everyone, like
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: like the entire bullpen and and a chunk of the
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: rotation was like out and sitting and like watching like that.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I think Cardinals Brewers was on. They were just like
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: sitting hanging out. Music was blaring, but it just felt
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: a little more active and bubbly. I don't know if,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: like I said, that could have just been happenstance, it
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it, but like it felt
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: like they were trying to be more positive and yeah,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: like they were very much like, Okay, let's enjoy this,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: but also we got Paul Skins tomorrow, so let's not
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: go too far with it. It's a long season. But
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: you know, like councils, like, yeah, it is nice to
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: get past this. I thought Ian Happ made a good point.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: And he's, you know, these are the types of things
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: that drive fans nuts, but they cannot These are not
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: the screaming, yelling type. This is not the the emotional,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: overly emotional type of clubhouse. But he said, it just
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: doesn't like what happened just doesn't matter. Like the ten
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: game losing streak, it doesn't matter. Neither do the ten
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: game winning streaks. Those don't matter, Like we have to
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: focus on what's next. And and he's like, I know
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: that's so maddening to fans. I really get that, but
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I just don't know, Like what is he supposed to
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: dwell on those things and say, like if we've only
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: done like it's it's done, it's over. You have to
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: move on. Do you try and learn from it and
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: take from it? Sure, but I think that that's the
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: right attitude for these guys to have. But they are
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: very much focused on like, Okay, now we got to
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: figure out a way to beat Paul Skeens because we
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: got to keep winning. They understand, they've you know, they're
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: not in a terrible spot, but they also the kind
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: of you know, killed a nice little stretch of play
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: that they had there.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: It is funny watching just the curb your enthusiasm levels
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: of awkwardness of Craig's you know, post games there. It's
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: different on TV because, as you know, when you're face
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: to face with him, you know, he's a very reasonable
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: person to deal with. But it is just like something
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: about it on TV is just like so unintentionally hilarious
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: after you know, I mean, I was thinking, like, you know,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: at some point during that homestand you know, we're kind
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: of running out of post game, like what else can
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: you do differently? And then you tack on like three
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: or four more losses whatever it was, they kind of
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: lose track, and it is weird being to see the Cubs.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: We're fifty six games in the Cubs four over, given
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: all of those pitching injuries, this is probably ballpark of
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: where you think they would be. And if during those
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: two ten game winning streaks, clearly there are a bunch
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: of walk offs like games that could have they were
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: coin flip games. And then obviously some of these losses
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: you could have gone either way as well. And if
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: we got to it at a different point, maybe you'd
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: feel a little different, but they didn't, so it's it's
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: fair game. And it's just amazing how like their World
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: series Contenders, we're talking about all the different pictures they
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: could acquire at the deadline, and just how quickly it
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: flips to like, you know, who's to blame? You know,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: is count Like are they you know they need someone
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: different than counsel bench everyone, like you know, just plug
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: in any random dude from Iowa that it can't be
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: any worse, and then to have it accumulate this, it's
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: just kind of mind boggling to where, you know, we
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: we don't get hung up too much on writing game
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: caps in May, right, but like the way the way
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: these streaks have gone, it's they've been, you know, newsworthy
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: for good and bad reasons, Like you just cannot ignore it.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to ignore the day to day when
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: it's a chunk of winds or a chunk of losses
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: like this all happening all together, but it's good, Like
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I feel like it just needed to happen. Obviously you
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: want it to happen before schemes, but just kind of
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: move past this idea that someone needs to be fired
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: or everyone needs to be benched. You weren't like, yeah,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: there are some questions and they remain right. You can't
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: just assume that this is a turning point or that
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: everything is good from here. There are major questions. I
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: think I actually think we we've been distracted by the
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: biggest issue on this team because of the offensive slump.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: And we're gonna talk more about pitching uh in a moment,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: But like, the offensive slump just lasted so long. When
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: you know there are three like you, you're you have
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: an off series or something like that. I think that's normal.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Once it lasts a week, that's when fans start to
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: freak out. Once in the last two weeks, that's when
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: everyone like that's when the media and even like the
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: coaching staff is like, okay, we got to do something,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: like we even saw like Greg Council make some slight changes.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: But the guys that got them to win are the regulars.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: You know, Ian Half who gets criticism no matter how
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: he's playing. It feels like is had all the huge
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: hits on on whatever night that is Wednesday night. So
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you just got to stick with with
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: with the guys that got you there. I understand that
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: sometimes you do need to shake up, but I don't
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: think the offense is the biggest question. Let's talk. Let's
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: take a break and then talk a little bit about
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: pitching in particular health update that we got.
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• 9:10
  Speaker 1: All right, Patrick, we got a Justin Steele update. He
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: saw doctor Keith Meister on I'm not Gonna figure out days.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: I think that was Tuesday that he saw. Look, this
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: was presented as a positive, and I think you can
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: say it's a positive in the sense that it's a
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: positive that he's you know, he's not getting a second surgery.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: He's he is taking a step forward. But the step
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: forward he's taking is he's strengthening his arm. He's starting
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: starting the strengthening process. He's not throwing for multiple weeks.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: We have no timeline. That that gives you no clarity
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: on a timeline. I don't think it's like it needs
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: to be really clear to fans that to build up
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: you like the standard thought process is the number of
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: weeks you're down? Is the number of weeks you need
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: to build back up? Now?
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: Is that?
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: The only thing I don't have full clarity on, and
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: that that I think is a little of a gray area,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: is is that are those number of weeks? Is that
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: just general theory is that the number of weeks you
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: need to build up as a starter, or does he
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: need even more time? That's that's just semantics, and that
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: like ultimately, like do the math here. If he's not
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: throwing for multiple weeks, that best case scenario, let's go
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: do a best case scenario. That's middle of June. So
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: that's seven eight weeks down from throwing. Another eight weeks
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: is the middle of August. That's if everything goes well.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I we're looking at a situation here where Justin Steele
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: giving the team five or six innings a start, Like
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: this is like a hobbyer or sod situation last year
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: where you basically run out of time and it's like, yeah,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: he can give you five or six in the middle
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: of September. How effective is he? Has he really built up?
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Is he really feeling good? Like it's I did not
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: take that as an update where you're feeling confident that
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Justin Steele is helping this team this season as a starter.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: When we were comparing notes on slack along with one
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: of our editors at the Athletic and you're kind of explaining,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: you know, what you're hearing on Steele, what you're thinking
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: of writing, and my first reaction was, like, Justin Steele
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: is not saving this Cub season. But I think Cubs
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: fans need to get that out of their head. I
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: think it probably gives some clarity to the front office
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: in terms of like the trade deadline. Don't think like, hey,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: maybe Justin Steele start in Game three of the playoffs.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Like if he is, maybe he has an opener or
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: maybe you know, he could be an interesting part of
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: a playoff pitching staff. And you know, I wouldn't underestimate
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Justin's competitiveness or his talents. It's just that, like you said,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: just do the math here. I mean, he had been
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: shut down at some point in mid to late April.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: We don't know the exact data that we just know
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: kind of when he visited Meister and was diagnosed with
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: that flexer strain. But he's been shut down completely with
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: no throwing component to his routine at all. And like
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: you're saying this, he hasn't he hasn't pitched in a
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: game since what April twenty twenty five? Yeah, right, So
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: like you're talking when you're talking about you know, sharpness
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: and sort of having the feel for all his pitches.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Like this is not you know, a guy just being
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: activated off the injured list who had already ramped up
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: for a season and had been in the flow of things,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: like he's he's going to be coming back from a
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: long way. This is a long road of rehab, and
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: again it's assuming no more setbacks, Like, I just don't
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: know how many more setbacks they can afford in terms
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: of getting back on the track to have like a
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: real like return to play timeline here.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's disappointing in the sense that he should
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: in you know, the best case scenario or the original
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: scenario that they were hoping for in spring training, you
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: would be thinking about a return suit like right around
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: now is when he'd be returning, and what an injection
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: that would be to this team and this staff, right
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and it wouldn't be like a lot of it. The
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: good thing about that is, Okay, he's he gets kind
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: of like June to like get his footing and like, Okay,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: maybe he's not this, Maybe he's not justin steel of
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty whatever year that was twenty four that he
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: was so brilliant or twenty twenty three. Maybe he's not
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: that version. But he gets like, you know, four or
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: five inning outings, six inning outings to kind of like
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: get his footing. If he's given up four or five runs,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: that's okay, like figure it out, get your footing, get right,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: and he's not, Like that's just not happening. If he's
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: pitching in August or September, you don't really have that.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: You don't have that, you know, wiggle room to like
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: have him figure it out and get his footing. So
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: it's it's I just don't. I couldn't. I can't listen
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: to the multiple weeks of I can't hear multiple weeks
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: before throwing and think this is a positive update, this
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: is this is a good thing. It's positive for his health,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: it's positive for that. You also have to think, like
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: how like thinking about him individually, like is it smart
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: for him to push if he's not right, Like should
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: he be pushing? Yes, he wants, he wants to come
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: back and help the team. But if he like he
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: can't push through this stuff, if he's being told not to,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: if his arm is telling him he needs to pull
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: back a little, that's all the more reason why it's
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: just like setback or not. I just I just find
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: like you know, over the next few months, whether he
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: has a setback or not. I just don't see how
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: this works out well in the Cub's favor. It's it's
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: too bad, you know. You're thinking in March Kate Horton
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Justin Steele to kind of open a playoff round a
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: bounce back from Showdai Ma Naga, Edward Cabrera. This this
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: great addition. Matthew Boyd had a you know, brilliant twenty
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: twenty five of really deep rotation. You're thinking, and that's
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: just not just not the case. Kind of all all
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: fell apart so quickly here with the rotation, Patrick, why
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: don't we take a break and talk about that rotation
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: and kind of the status of where everything.
• 16:44
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  Speaker 1: Geek, Okay Patrick. So obviously the injuries have piled up,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Erwic Cabrera blister, Matthew Boyd knee injury, we talked about
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Justin Steele, Kate Horton out for the year. But it
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: does seem like some of this, some of this stuff
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: is is clearing up and the Cubs are going to
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: have a little bit more clarity in their rotation. I
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: think the best news for this team right now is
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: that Matthew Boyd is making a rehab start on Sunday.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: This is going much quicker than I think I expected
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: with the with this meniscus hair. Like I thought six
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: weeks was like the optimistic route, and I think we're
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: I wish I looked up the exact date, but it
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: like there's a chance it could be quicker than that
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: because he's making a start on Sunday and it's supposed
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: to be the first of two and then he should
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: be back after that. So that's like, uh, that would
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: be Sunday and then Friday ish and then back the
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: following week, so like two weeks from now, So maybe
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: that's around I think that's less than that's definitely less
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: than six weeks. That is a good sign for them.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it sounded like he was able to
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: more or less maintain a throwing program, that it was
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: he maybe got the equivalent of like an All Star
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: break off of throwing, and that he responded well, he's
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: been progressing kind of exactly the way that he had hoped.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know after this first start of the season,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I'm still kind of in wait and see, but it
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: is telling that. You know, the Cubs generally sort of
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: slow play these things and don't really like timelines, but
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Boyd has keep checking these boxes to where, you know,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I remember asking Craig on the South Side during that
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: White Sox series about, you know, if Boy's already doing this,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: you know, he'd probably be ready before the end of June,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: certainly before the All Star break. And you know, Craig
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: didn't want to go there just yet because he's still
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: progressing to throwing from flat ground to off of a mound.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: But obviously that would be big. I think exactly what
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: we said about Justin Steele as well. It's a shorter
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: kind of bounce back period. But Boyd hasn't quite been
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: that cy Young Award contender that he was in the
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: first half of last year. Curousy how that goes. I mean, Cabrera,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: they're still looking at a minimum stay, right, I mean Ish.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't. I mean, I think they're pretty
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: optimistic there that it'll be a minimum stay. It doesn't
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: seem like there's any concern of that blister getting worse.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say that the rotation suddenly turns
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: into a strength. That's not I don't. It's still my concern,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: but essentially you've you don't want injuries, but sometimes it
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: shows you something, right a council, Let's just say it
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: gives opportunity. Well, here's that opportunity for Ben Brown. You
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: get back, Edward Cabrera, you get back Matthew Boyd. Ben
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Brown's not leaving this rotation. I'd be like, I think
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: they've found something here and he made right Now he's
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: pitching like the best pitcher in this rotation. I expect
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Imanaga to bounce back. He's had these even during that
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: rookie year, he had these moments where it was like, oh,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: like the home run issues catching up to him and
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: then he gets kind of gets back at it. If
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: if Matthew Boyd can kind of recapture that, you know,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: maybe not peak twenty twenty five, but something a little
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: bit better results wise than what we were seeing, and
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Cabrera can just needed some time off to get this
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: blister fully healed. Now you look feel a little bit
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: better about this rotation and you're talking about like, okay,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: how do you add to kind of like you know,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Jordan Wicks gets sent down when Matthew Boyd comes back,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: is probably the move and then like, what's the situation
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: once once Cabrera comes back, because you're not moving Brown
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: back to the bullpen unless you know they I'm missing
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: something here, but I'd be surprised. He's been too good.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's any reason to take him out.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: It's not like he's been okay and getting by like
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: he's he's allowing very few runs and now he's starting
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: to go five plus. Like if he can do that consistently,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: you got to keep him in there. And then you
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: talk about, like do you move Ray to the bullpen
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: to kind of strengthen things. I know we could talk
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: about ty On a little bit, but I just don't
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: think he's a bullpen guy. Colin Ray I think can
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: do that well, give you multiple innings. Tyne has these moments.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I don't think this is like a permanent downturn. He
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: does have these moments and home runs will bite him.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I actually think the stuff is up. It's a it's
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: a little it's like every mistake he makes gets hammered.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: But the stuff looks a little bit better than it
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: seemed like even last year.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I want to go back to Ben Brown for one second,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: because I feel like it's helpful to give kind of
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: a snapshot here and like sid of how do you
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: explain like what Ben Brown is doing differently and how
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: he's reached this point because I feel like he always
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: talks a good game in spring training. There's been years
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: of sort of like a little bit of overhype, some overpromising,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: and it took all of these injuries to give him
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: that runway. Like what is is this version of Ben
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Brown doing to become a very viable major league starting pitcher?
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can argue the chicken the egg theory here,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: what first the mental aspect or the addition of the pitches?
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: I think just watching it, I think the edition of
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the pitches like just kind of changes his game, Like
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: he's not as predictable thinking about what really got him
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: in previous years. It looked good sometimes for a few innings,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: but second or third time through the order, it was
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: clear he wasn't very good. And it's because they would
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: sit that you're sitting on two pitches, you can eliminate
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: one and just say I'm gonna wait for the fastball
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: and hammer it. A lot of times that's what happened.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Like he was not like if if you're, you know,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: into just looking at peripherals, you would think Ben Brown's
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: an interesting pitcher. This is a guy that strikes guys out,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: isn't walking guys. But you watch him pitch and it
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: was like, ooh, I see what's happening here. And you
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: look at some more dad and you're like, the barrel
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: rate is way up. But like this guy gets hammered.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: It's because they were just sitting on pitches and he
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: had nothing to kind of keep them guessing. The sinker.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: The development of the sinker has been huge. He uses
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: the change up, but the development of the sinker, I
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: think I did not expect the sinker to be as
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: good as it is, to be as effective of a weapon,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: and it seems like that has really allowed him to
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: turn a lineup over a multiple times. We haven't really
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: seen him go that deep yet, so I don't want
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: to say that it's all figured out, but it's pretty
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: clear that that that is a big development. And the
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: mental aspect I think is important because there was a
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: time that I think would almost see it. It's like
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: he was wearing it on his face that oh no,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: here's a second and third situation with one out how
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: am I going to get out of it? And and
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: it would just lead to like a five run inning.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: And now it's like, Okay, I can get out of
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: this with no runs or one run, and he's been
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: able to do that. He's wrinkled out of jams a
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: little bit more effectively. It just feels like a very
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: different picture. He's always he's always you're right, Like it
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: seems like he's been there when he talks to us
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: and he says the right things, but then sometimes it
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: didn't work out on the Field's that's changing, and it's
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I really do think it's as simple as like, yeah,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: he was a two pitch picture. It wasn't going to
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: work like that. Those types of pictures are just rare.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: And now he's got multiple pitches and that just made him,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: you know, a much more effective picture.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: A massive development if he can stick in the rotation.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: That's obviously part of why they seem to be rooting
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: for this outcome. I think you probably stick with him,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: but I guess we'll see, like who gets injured next
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: and how fast these guys do return or not. I
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: guess we also can't take Brown's health for granted. I mean,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: it's it's impressive considering he had that sort of lost
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: year there where it was at the neck injury where
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: it was very sort of oh yeah, curious, mysterious circumstances
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: that even he didn't have a whole lot of he
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: didn't get a lot of great answers, if I'm remembering correctly,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: But just go to show how long he's been around
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: to where the years sort of blend together, and you know,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: you remember that flirting with a no hitter in Milwaukee
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: and then now you see him here as really hard
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: to believe, but like a huge stabilizer for this pitching staff,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: like all year long, in multiple roles. Yeah.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, if he can continue this, I think that's huge
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: for them. And we'll see with the health of Cabreer
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: and boy just how Again, don't think it's it's going
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: to be a great rotation, but a much improved rotation
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: because I didn't even mention this during that ten game
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: losing streak. Everyone was so focused on the offense. They
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: had the worst starters e er in baseball at like
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: above eight. It's still an issue to keep an eye
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: on like that. I don't think has gone away again.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: I just think the offense is going to be okay,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: maybe very good. You know, this very well could have
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: just been like a two week blip. Just going to
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: keep an eye on that rotation that See, both health
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: and effectiveness are so important. All right, let's wrap this up.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: This is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe,
• 28:41
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• 28:44
  Speaker 1: where Patrick and Iron top of all things Cubs. Thanks
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: for listening to everyone. Take care.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: I any ID
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Do day