Latest / Transforming: Tales of Business Evolution / TfP 012. Creating Balance Without Losing Business

Transcript

TfP 012. Creating Balance Without Losing Business · Transforming: Tales of Business Evolution

0:03
FEMALE_1: Welcome to "Transforming,
0:05
Tales of Business Evolution",
0:07
where we delve into the dynamic world
0:09
of business transformation.
0:11
Each episode is designed
0:13
for firms of any size and scale,
0:15
exploring both innovative
0:16
long-term planning and day-to-day
0:18
operating practices that help
0:20
organizations adapt to a changing landscape.
0:23
Join us each month as we hear from leaders in
0:25
the public accounting profession
0:27
sharing their experiences
0:28
of reshaping their business models and inspiring
0:31
you to explore new ways to evolve your own organization.
0:35
Let's dive into this month's conversation now.
0:38
Lisa Simpson: Hello, I'm Lisa Simpson.
0:40
I'm the Vice President of Firm Services for the AICPA,
0:43
and I am here to talk today with Brenda Cannon.
0:47
Brenda is a person that I've met on "Tax Twitter",
0:50
and I've been really intrigued with what she's done
0:53
in managing her practice during tax season.
0:57
I'm going to introduce Brenda,
0:59
and then we'll jump into some specifics,
1:02
and we'll have a great conversation.
1:05
Thanks for joining us today on this episode of
1:07
Transforming, Tales of Business Model Evolution,
1:10
which is part of our support for practitioners
1:13
looking to truly transformed
1:15
the way they run their practice.
1:17
So with that, welcome, Brenda.
1:19
Thanks for joining me today.
1:21
Tell me a little bit about your firm.
1:23
Are you all tax?
1:24
How many people do you have?
1:26
Brenda Cannon: We're in Oklahoma,
1:27
and I would say we're probably
1:30
60% taxed and 40% accounting and we do tax planning.
1:38
We have about 375 clients right now,
1:41
4.5 employees, and we have one office,
1:45
but we have a couple of people that work remotely.
1:48
Lisa Simpson: Any niches or specializations?
1:51
Brenda Cannon: I wish we had a niche, but we don't.
1:54
It's mainly small businesses and their owners.
1:57
We love to do tax planning,
1:59
and so we do their accounting and their taxes.
2:02
Lisa Simpson: I mentioned that you've made
2:04
some pretty substantial changes to
2:05
the way you run your firm.
2:07
Tell me what you've changed?
2:10
How have you approached this differently?
2:12
Brenda Cannon: Two years ago, we
2:14
started scheduling tax prep.
2:16
This will be our third tax season to schedule tax prep.
2:22
We send a calendar out to our clients in December,
2:27
and there are only so many spots
2:30
available each day to give us their tax documents.
2:33
They pick a date, and this is how
2:35
we've smoothed out our workload.
2:39
Now we have a reasonable number
2:42
of tax returns to prepare each week,
2:44
and we tell our clients that we'll have their return
2:46
completed by the end of the week, three weeks later.
2:49
Now they have a specific
2:51
completion date for their tax return.
2:53
Lisa Simpson: You said you've
2:54
smoothed out your tax season.
2:55
Is that basically the problem you were trying to solve?
2:58
Brenda Cannon: Yes. Like many tax firm owners,
3:01
when I started the firm,
3:02
I carried on the processes
3:04
that I learned with CPE firm I had worked for,
3:09
and at first it wasn't a problem
3:12
because I didn't have a ton of clients, but as we grew,
3:15
we had so much work compressed into a 10-week window,
3:20
and so we were working seven days a week,
3:24
giving up a fourth of our life every year,
3:26
missing time with family.
3:29
In fact, family and friends stopped asking us to
3:32
do things because they knew that we just would say no.
3:35
I was getting really burned out.
3:38
It was chaotic. We would give our clients a deadline.
3:43
It used to be March 20th,
3:45
and then we moved it back to March 15th,
3:47
thinking that would fix the problem.
3:49
We would say, if you get
3:50
your information just started March 15th,
3:52
we'll have your tax return completed by April 15th.
3:55
But we had no way of knowing
3:56
how many clients would give us
3:58
their information by March 15th.
4:00
No way to control that workflow.
4:02
My breaking point was
4:07
and we had more clients then. We had another partner.
4:09
We had about 1,500 clients, but in 2019,
4:13
105 of our clients gave us
4:15
their information on March 15th, on that one day.
4:19
In addition to the clients
4:22
who gave us their information before that,
4:23
they either dropped it off or
4:24
they uploaded it to the portal.
4:26
It adds a lot of stress to Admin,
4:29
because they've got set up these projects and pull
4:31
these documents from the portal
4:33
or scan the documents in.
4:35
It was so chaotic.
4:37
That was the problem that they were trying to solve.
4:39
Lisa Simpson: My goodness.
4:40
How did your clients react to this?
4:42
What did they think about the process?
4:44
Brenda Cannon: It's definitely
4:45
a learning curve for clients.
4:47
Some clients didn't pay attention.
4:49
They didn't read our emails.
4:50
We even use a texting software,
4:54
and we announced it a few times.
4:57
But some people just tend to ignore your communications.
5:01
There were some plans we didn't read our emails.
5:05
By the time they
5:07
might upload their documents or bring them by,
5:09
and we'd say,
5:10
Well, you need to pick a date on the calendar.
5:13
By that time, the dates
5:14
are picked out through May or June.
5:16
There were some frustrated clients.
5:19
Many clients said, You know,
5:21
I don't need to file an extension.
5:22
I have all of my documents by February.
5:24
Well, so do millions of other people.
5:26
That was a problem.
5:31
The clients are just phobic about extensions.
5:35
We had to really talk to our clients.
5:38
One day, I just sat down
5:40
and just filmed a little video and
5:42
texted it to all of our clients about
5:43
why you don't need to be concerned about extensions.
5:47
We have stressed to our clients
5:49
that if your income increases,
5:50
you need us to do a tax projection.
5:52
Let us do that because
5:53
there's a chance with this new process,
5:55
you're going to be extended.
5:58
We've worked through that. We did lose.
6:01
At the time when we started this,
6:03
we had about 700 clients,
6:05
and we lost about 10%.
6:08
We also had increased our fees quite a bit that year,
6:11
so I would attribute
6:13
maybe 5% of our clients
6:16
leaving because of the calendar thing, which is fine.
6:18
It was absolutely worth it.
6:21
Lisa Simpson: How are you doing?
6:23
The tax planning in November, December,
6:27
maybe carrying over into January,
6:29
and are you modifying
6:31
your engagement with them to handle the tax planning?
6:33
Is that a separate engagement,
6:35
or are you just building it into the tax return fee?
6:38
Brenda Cannon: Most of our new clients are businesses,
6:39
and yes, that is part of our minimum.
6:41
We have a three-tier fee proposal.
6:44
The minimum fee includes one tax projection,
6:47
and we're doing that with new 1040 clients, too.
6:49
Otherwise, if they're legacy clients,
6:52
we haven't really had a problem billing them for
6:54
tax projection if it isn't part of their fee.
6:58
That hasn't been a problem.
7:00
They are really catching on.
7:02
We send a calendar out in
7:05
probably September
7:07
or early October, and we'll do the same thing.
7:10
We'll ask our clients to pick spot on
7:12
the calendar in November and early December,
7:16
I like to enjoy my holidays,
7:19
so we want to have all of that racked up
7:21
as much as possible by the middle of December.
7:24
There are some clients, we have to do
7:26
that in early January because
7:27
they just don't for various reasons,
7:32
they just don't have all the information.
7:34
That's a really important part of scheduling tax prep.
7:38
If clients don't owe tax,
7:40
there is no reason to be
7:42
concerned about filing an extension.
7:45
Lisa Simpson: I love the video that you
7:48
recorded on why not to be afraid of extensions.
7:51
We've heard that a lot that
7:53
so many people, they feel like that's
7:55
an audit red flag.
7:57
The idea of the video is great.
8:00
The AICPA tax section has
8:01
some sample letters that you can send the clients about,
8:04
don't be afraid of extensions.
8:07
We always try to remind folks that they can use
8:10
those resources because making
8:12
the client feel comfortable
8:14
that they're not going to get audited
8:16
just because of that is
8:17
a huge step in getting their buy-in.
8:20
What happens if let's say that I signed up,
8:25
and I'm going to give you my information on March 10th.
8:28
March 10th, I upload everything I have,
8:31
but I'm waiting on two K-1s,
8:35
and I don't know when I'm going to get those.
8:37
Then what? How do you handle those?
8:39
Brenda Cannon: We tell our clients you need to pick a date
8:43
that is appropriate for your tax return.
8:46
So if you have publicly traded partnerships,
8:48
for example, you may not get those K-1s
8:51
until May or June, even.
8:52
Based on prior years,
8:55
you need to pick a date that's appropriate.
8:57
If you don't have all your tax documents by your date,
9:01
you'll have to pick a new date.
9:03
By that time, many dates will have been picked.
9:06
They have taken that pretty seriously.
9:10
There are exceptions, and we will work with people.
9:13
If there's one K-1 that's running late, it's unexpected.
9:17
We'll work with them,
9:19
but the majority of our clients have done
9:20
a good job picking dates that work for their tax return.
9:24
Lisa Simpson: That's really interesting.
9:26
It behooves them to pick
9:28
a reasonable date because otherwise
9:31
they could be pushed much
9:32
farther out than they'd want to be.
9:34
You've really through this, haven't you?
9:37
Brenda Cannon: It's evolved every year.
9:39
This will be our third tax season to do it.
9:41
Another thing we do is,
9:43
and I need to find a way to automate this,
9:45
and I'm going to work on that.
9:48
They're supposed to give us
9:49
all of their tax documents on their date.
9:52
We have one employee
9:54
who will go through their tax documents the day
9:56
after their date and
9:59
compare those to their tax documents
10:01
from the prior year,
10:02
and then she'll check with the preparers and say,
10:04
it looks like these documents are missing,
10:06
and we'll give her the go ahead,
10:08
and she will contact that client and say,
10:11
It looks like these tax documents might be missing.
10:13
If you have these for this tax year,
10:16
please get them to us as soon as
10:18
possible to keep your date on the calendar.
10:21
That sense of urgency is
10:24
clients are taking these dates seriously.
10:28
One of my clients said that
10:29
they're putting reminders on their phones,
10:31
'cause the dates go fast.
10:33
They go really fast.
10:35
One client said that he was going to pick
10:38
two dates and sell one on Ticketmaster.
10:40
Lisa Simpson: You read my mind. I was thinking,
10:42
This is like lining up for
10:43
Taylor Swift or Beyonce concert.
10:46
Right? That's kind of funny.
10:49
How did you come up with the fundamental idea, though,
10:52
had you heard of other firms doing this?
10:54
Brenda Cannon: Yes.
10:55
Lisa Simpson: Okay.
10:55
Brenda Cannon: So I was actually on a plane,
10:58
listening to Jason Staats podcast.
11:01
He was talking about scheduling tax prep.
11:03
It was November of 2022,
11:05
and I honestly used to look forward to
11:08
the next tax season because
11:09
I would get to see my clients again.
11:11
It was just kind of exciting.
11:12
I was starting to
11:14
get to a point where I wasn't looking forward.
11:16
I was dreading tax season.
11:18
It's November, and I'm thinking about,
11:19
I'm going to lose my life again for three months.
11:22
So he's talking about scheduling tax prep,
11:24
and he had heard it from Jacob Oberlander
11:26
who was doing that.
11:28
I'm just taking notes and thinking about it.
11:31
I thought it just sounds so wonderful.
11:35
Like you know how many returns
11:36
you can prepare on average in a day.
11:39
You knew you were on schedule.
11:41
That just sounds so wonderful.
11:43
When I got back to the office,
11:46
we had a team meeting and we talked through it,
11:49
and everybody thought it was a great idea,
11:51
that how are we going to implement and communicate.
11:54
I think we've worked out all those kinks now.
11:58
Lisa Simpson: Do your tax team folks,
12:00
are they having a smoother busy season?
12:02
Are they having less overtime?
12:05
Do they get their life back?
12:07
Brenda Cannon: Yes, absolutely.
12:09
There have been a few weekends I've worked,
12:11
but I pretty much do not work weekends anymore,
12:14
and no one works overtime at our office.
12:17
Our staff didn't work
12:19
a single weekend for the last couple of years.
12:22
We're not getting status checks from our clients.
12:26
That is such a thing.
12:29
They'll give you their tax documents,
12:31
and we would say two to three weeks.
12:33
We had no idea how long it would take.
12:36
They email and just checking in, or they call,
12:39
and then that slows you down
12:41
because then you got to go look where you are on that,
12:44
or they going to give you-all their information.
12:46
Then you had the back and forth,
12:47
picking up and putting down.
12:49
Then, the way we used to do it after April 15th,
12:52
when you're exhausted, did you just slower.
12:56
We would be four weeks maybe five,
13:00
six weeks on getting tax returns turned around,
13:03
so we get frustrated clients.
13:05
Now, clients have a specific date.
13:08
They know their tax return will be completed.
13:11
When did you start getting status check?
13:13
I mean, a few, very few.
13:15
Lisa Simpson: I guess it's also helped,
13:17
even out cash flow,
13:18
because you're not delaying
13:20
all your cash flow until May, June, July.
13:23
After the 15th deadline,
13:25
then you're finally cracking out returns,
13:26
you're able to manage that process, too, then.
13:31
Brenda Cannon: It does. A number of our clients are on
13:32
a monthly subscription now, but still, yeah.
13:35
I used to get excited
13:37
about tax season 'cause I was like,
13:38
[inaudible] all this cash.
13:39
Well, you're going to make
13:42
the same amount of money for
13:44
the same amount of tax returns,
13:45
whether it's crammed all in to February, March,
13:48
April, May, or if it's spread
13:50
I don't know why we get so excited.
13:52
It's the same amount of money annually.
13:55
Lisa Simpson: I love that.
13:57
So one thing I've heard from
13:58
other practitioners is that if they get new clients,
14:01
they are automatically saying,
14:04
Your return will be extended.
14:06
Are you taking that approach,
14:08
or are you just letting them go into
14:10
the you're going to get a link to a calendar.
14:13
You get your stuff in. What approach are you taking?
14:16
Brenda Cannon: Yes. What we need with our clients,
14:19
we say, This is how we do things.
14:21
We're going to send a calendar link app.
14:23
In December, be watching for communications,
14:26
and you'll need to pick a date, and there's
14:28
a very good chance you'll be extended.
14:29
But it is it's how quick people get on that calendar.
14:34
What else is interesting to me.
14:35
There are people that are just absolutely
14:37
phobic about extensions,
14:39
and they're like, refresh, refresh.
14:41
They want to pick a date as fast as they possibly can.
14:45
Everybody, the ones who wanted the earlier dates,
14:48
those filled up so fast
14:50
into first or second week of June,
14:53
and then nobody picked a date
14:56
the last two weeks of June, all of July.
14:59
Then our calendar ends August 20th.
15:03
So we have our very last minute of people
15:05
who don't want to deal with it till as late as they can.
15:09
They've got dates in August.
15:11
It's funny the different types of clients that you have.
15:15
We added 10% to the number of clients
15:18
we have just in case we were to grow.
15:22
I think probably 10% is too much.
15:25
We had more spaces available than we had clients.
15:28
We've got this big,
15:30
so July is time to work on firm things
15:36
or whatever because nobody.
15:38
Lisa Simpson: For me to go on vacation.
15:40
Brenda Cannon: That's a great idea.
15:41
Lisa Simpson: Your team's happy with the idea.
15:43
Your clients are buying into the concept.
15:46
They're adapting to the new process.
15:49
You've said you've gone through two tax seasons.
15:51
You're making some more evolutions,
15:53
but you feel like you're getting close
15:54
to having this figured out.
15:55
A couple of trial and errors,
15:57
which I hear from a lot of
15:59
firm owners as they're implementing something new.
16:02
If you were to say anything
16:04
to someone who's thinking about trying this approach,
16:06
what are your words of wisdom?
16:08
Brenda Cannon: Yes, there are different ways to do this.
16:10
We've done this two different ways,
16:12
but there are actually three ways you can do this.
16:14
The first year, what we did was we used
16:17
Firm360 Practice Management,
16:19
and we ran a report, try to figure out the average time
16:23
it takes to prepare one of our tax returns
16:25
for our clients.
16:26
Some returns might take a day or two,
16:29
and some could 30 minutes, for the prep part.
16:33
But we came up with an average,
16:36
and we figured out
16:38
how many returns we could get done in a day.
16:40
But we wanted to add a ton of cushion,
16:43
and I cannot stress that enough.
16:45
Add a ton of cushion because you
16:47
forget about unforeseen things to happen.
16:50
Somebody gets sick, bad weather, you lose a loved one,
16:55
all things that can happen.
16:57
We dropped it down to
16:59
about 75% of that number
17:01
of tax returns to be prepared in a day.
17:04
We had those numbers available each day,
17:09
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
17:10
I think we started the second week of February.
17:13
No spots available on Fridays.
17:16
That is our day for catch up,
17:18
Accounting, dealing with correspondence,
17:21
things like that, meetings, whatever.
17:25
For the week of April 15th, three-weeks prior,
17:29
we had no spots available.
17:31
To that week, we just work on extensions
17:35
and if we had to do
17:37
any last minute calculations
17:39
for payments with extensions,
17:40
things like that.
17:41
You can set it up to fit your firm.
17:44
This last two years,
17:46
what we did, we took our number of clients,
17:49
and like I said, we added 10%,
17:51
and we just spread it out pretty evenly
17:53
from the second week of February till August 20th,
17:56
and August 20th is our deadline
17:58
for personal and business.
18:00
It's even worse when you have a crunch in September
18:02
and October because that's the final, final deadline.
18:06
We did that.
18:07
Another way to do it,
18:10
and Ann Irons, who's my friend on Tax Twitter,
18:14
she does it this way.
18:15
She picks the date for her clients.
18:17
That makes sense, too,
18:18
because she knows what clients should file early,
18:22
what clients should file later.
18:25
I feel like that's a little more admin work,
18:27
and I didn't want to do that.
18:28
I wanted to be a little more like,
18:29
here's a calendar, have at it.
18:32
But you have to do what works for your firm.
18:35
One thing that I want to work more on
18:39
is carving out time for tax planning.
18:42
I would do planning before the April 15th,
18:46
estimated tax payments in June and September.
18:48
I want to carve out more time for that.
18:52
We take notes each year.
18:55
I noticed last year,
18:56
we said, we're lazy in June.
19:00
We need to have fewer places in
19:03
June because we're just lazy in June.
19:06
Lisa Simpson: We all have a tendency.
19:08
I know after April 15th,
19:10
I would be like, whoosh,
19:12
and then disappear for about eight days.
19:14
Brenda Cannon: Yeah.
19:14
Lisa Simpson: How do you set things up
19:16
to keep the tax returns
19:18
meeting the deadlines that you've set?
19:20
Brenda Cannon: We don't have that big exhaustion
19:22
after April 15th anymore,
19:23
because our work is pretty smoothed out.
19:26
Our bonuses for our employees now,
19:28
we always did April 15th bonuses.
19:31
They're December, like normal businesses.
19:34
Because April 15th is a day.
19:37
We file extensions,
19:39
but it's just our work is smoothed out.
19:42
But it's important to add a ton of [inaudible] .
19:45
Clients don't mind if you are ahead of schedule.
19:49
They don't like if you're behind schedule.
19:52
Another thing we did was,
19:55
what we send the calendar out
19:56
the second year and this year,
19:59
we sent out another form
20:01
that says I didn't get the date I want.
20:04
Clients didn't like their date.
20:06
They could put their name on this form.
20:08
The mistake we had was
20:10
we had them pick the date they want.
20:12
We're not going to do that anymore.
20:13
It's just going to be like a waiting list.
20:15
If we're ahead of schedule,
20:17
go ahead and upload your documents, so they're ready.
20:23
This year we weren't able to,
20:26
but last year in early April,
20:28
we were ahead of schedule.
20:30
We were able to get some more returns done.
20:34
But the important thing was we weren't behind schedule.
20:37
Now, it's me and Randy.
20:39
We have a part-time contract person.
20:42
We like two returns a day,
20:44
maybe three, maybe four,
20:46
but it's not a lot because we just want to spread it out
20:49
and we have more time to visit with our clients.
20:53
There are fewer mistakes because we're not rushed.
20:58
Another thing we've noticed is
21:01
the clients who like this are our favorite,
21:04
our A plus clients.
21:06
They're the clients who are organized and responsive.
21:09
They actually read our communications.
21:11
They like this process,
21:13
and those are the clients we want to attract.
21:16
We're really happy about that.
21:19
Lisa Simpson: I like that because I think that's
21:21
a key component to owning
21:23
the future of the firm
21:24
is you're seeing who you like to work with.
21:28
That can help you identify
21:31
your ideal client going forward
21:32
because you've got this process.
21:34
If they don't want the process,
21:36
you're not the right firm for them.
21:37
Brenda Cannon: That's true. We tell them upfront,
21:39
so they have every opportunity to decide not to use us.
21:43
Lisa Simpson: As a small firm owner,
21:45
is that uncomfortable because
21:48
you're potentially walking away from revenue?
21:51
Does that ever enter your mind?
21:52
Did it initially, and now it doesn't?
21:56
Brenda Cannon: No. It used to.
21:59
I used to take any client who was breathing air.
22:02
I would find myself competing.
22:08
What I've learned is,
22:10
if we lose a client,
22:12
it makes room for
22:13
another client who's probably a better client.
22:16
Since 2020, we've let go of about 500 clients.
22:23
Part of that is because we were two CPAs short,
22:27
and instead of hiring,
22:29
we decided to just
22:31
let go of clients who aren't [inaudible] anymore.
22:34
I'm over trying to grow fast.
22:37
I want to try to continue to have a better roster.
22:41
Because that helps your efficiency.
22:45
It just helps in so many ways to have clients
22:49
who are responsive and organized
22:53
and read the instructions.
22:56
Lisa Simpson: You're creating work-life balance,
23:00
which I know exercising is important to you.
23:02
I know family time is important.
23:05
You're creating the structure that
23:07
allows you to get what's most important to you.
23:11
Right?
23:11
Brenda Cannon: Right. The stress is gone.
23:15
It's night in day, absolutely night in day.
23:17
Lisa Simpson: I'm getting goose bumps because I just want
23:19
everyone to hear this example.
23:21
This is another example of how you can
23:24
make your firm run the way that fits you,
23:29
not the way that it's run the past 20 years.
23:32
I love that.
23:34
Brenda Cannon: It's so funny how accountants
23:36
we don't change very well.
23:38
Why have we not been scheduling tax prep?
23:41
You don't walk into your doctor's office and say,
23:44
I need you to see the doctor.
23:45
I'm just going to see the doctor right now.
23:47
No, you make an appointment.
23:49
You make an appointment for almost anything.
23:52
We just tend to keep doing things the same way.
23:56
We are never going back the other way.
24:00
Lisa Simpson: I love it.
24:04
You don't walk into an attorney's office and say,
24:06
I'm here to see so and so without having an appointment.
24:10
I love what you said
24:12
about sticking to your fee structure.
24:14
You increased your minimums.
24:17
You're trying to focus more on
24:19
business clients so you can do
24:20
the business and the owners work.
24:22
You're still taking standalone 1040s, though.
24:24
Is that right?
24:26
Brenda Cannon: We are. We'd like to have
24:29
1040s where we can really
24:30
help the client do tax planning.
24:33
Lisa Simpson: Perfect.
24:34
Brenda Cannon: Yeah.
24:35
Lisa Simpson: It's not someone who's just got a couple of
24:38
W-2s and mortgage interest
24:40
and some kids to take a deduction for.
24:43
It's those clients where you believe you can actually
24:46
add the advisory value.
24:49
Brenda Cannon: Right. Unless it's my mom's friends.
24:51
Mom's friends kids.
24:53
Lisa Simpson: Well, we got to have
24:55
some exceptions for our moms.
24:57
I'm with you on that one. That's right.
24:59
I think I forgot to ask you a really important question.
25:03
We talked about your team,
25:04
but how many partners are in the firm?
25:08
Brenda Cannon: There's just two partners.
25:09
Just me, my husband Randy Cannon.
25:12
Lisa Simpson: That helps with getting
25:14
the leadership buy-in,
25:15
because for a lot of these changes,
25:17
if you're in a multi-partner firm,
25:18
you might have to convince the other partners,
25:21
hey, let's do this.
25:23
But I'm assuming Randy said,
25:26
yes, honey, whatever you want.
25:28
Brenda Cannon: He said, I think that's great,
25:30
but how are we going to do that?
25:32
There was a lot of discussion about that.
25:34
I hear a lot from people on Tax Twitter or LinkedIn,
25:40
they say, my boss won't even think about this.
25:44
That makes me sad because I'm like,
25:46
can I talk to your boss?
25:47
Just give me five minutes.
25:50
Lisa Simpson: That's exactly why I'm talking to you
25:51
because if we can amplify stories like yours,
25:56
we can help people within a firm,
25:59
even if they're not the owner,
26:00
get a case study,
26:02
get a business example,
26:04
true life story of how this worked
26:06
and the benefits of it.
26:07
I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me.
26:10
I know that you are getting
26:12
lots of questions about how you do this.
26:14
I want to make sure before
26:16
we even get close to finishing,
26:18
if people want to learn more about
26:20
the lessons you've learned and how you approach this,
26:23
how do they find you?
26:25
Brenda Cannon: You can email me at
26:26
brenda@connoncpas.com,
26:29
and I'm on Tax Twitter, bsuecannon.
26:32
Lisa Simpson: We can track you down on LinkedIn.
26:34
Brenda Cannon: I had a client who's a software developer.
26:38
He developed software to do this scheduling,
26:42
and it's called Schedule Es.
26:44
I think the website is schedules.net.
26:47
There's one E in between Schedule Es,
26:50
just one E.
26:51
It will roll out August.
26:54
Lisa Simpson: Nice. This is really interesting
26:59
because we're finding that a lot of
27:02
firms are making progress on
27:04
automation on advancing their technology by
27:08
finding a developer that
27:11
will really come in and understand the problem and
27:13
almost embed with the firms for a little while
27:16
to see where they identify the most opportunity.
27:19
It worked out that you just had
27:21
that great client waiting there to help you.
27:24
Brenda Cannon: I know. It just really worked out.
27:26
Since we've had so many questions about scheduling,
27:31
the software is a tool,
27:33
but some people, I think they just need more.
27:36
I've done several Zoom meetings with
27:38
people interested in scheduling,
27:39
but it seems like one Zoom meeting has just not enough.
27:43
I am starting a community
27:45
August 2025 called Take Your Life Back Tax Pro.
27:50
It'll be about scheduling,
27:53
but it'll be about things to do,
27:56
like changes you can make
27:57
so that you can take your life back.
27:59
Ways to be more efficient,
28:01
setting boundaries with clients,
28:04
being picky about your clients, things like that.
28:07
Lisa Simpson: These are all fundamental concepts
28:08
of what we're trying to do with our PCPs
28:11
transforming your business model.
28:13
It is about learning to set boundaries.
28:15
It is about identifying an ideal client persona,
28:19
no matter what service line it is,
28:21
whether it's tax client advisory and accounting,
28:25
tax advisory planning,
28:26
personal financial planning audit,
28:29
having a clear concept of who your ideal client is,
28:33
what services you want to provide,
28:34
how, when, using what technologies,
28:38
all of that to get your life back to
28:41
your point and also help the profession
28:44
be more attractive because we know that
28:48
typically the perception of
28:50
the profession is you work long hours,
28:53
you just keep your head down, doing boring work,
28:56
and your work life balance suffers for
28:59
the first several years
29:00
of your career, sometimes even longer.
29:02
I love that you're basically attacking all of that.
29:05
In one swoop by owning
29:08
the way you want the firm to run. That's great.
29:11
I think that might be why you were
29:13
recognized as a run up on our innovative CPA
29:16
Practitioner Award last year that
29:18
cpa.com puts out around the digital CPA conference.
29:22
I'm figuring all that out now.
29:25
Brenda Cannon: I was excited about that. Thank you.
29:26
Lisa Simpson: It is exciting.
29:27
Is there anything you would do differently
29:30
throughout this process?
29:31
I guess, building in the cushion as you're scheduling.
29:35
Any communication tips or tricks that you can think of?
29:39
Brenda Cannon: Probably if you wanted to
29:40
start scheduling next year in 2026,
29:43
I would start communicating now.
29:45
I've heard that it takes like seven
29:48
times before somebody actually reads something.
29:52
A few times,
29:53
we're going to do things different next year.
29:55
We're going to schedule tax prep.
29:57
Please be paying attention for more communications.
30:01
Then with the next communication, maybe say,
30:05
try to focus on the benefit to the clients,
30:08
a more specific completion date,
30:11
less errors because we're more rested.
30:15
That they'll need to have their tax pro do
30:21
a tax projection before
30:22
the end of the year or early in January,
30:26
because there's a good chance it'll be extended.
30:28
I got pushback from some clients that said,
30:34
I don't think this is a good idea.
30:37
You're going to have that.
30:38
You're going to have that with co-workers,
30:40
your boss, and some of your clients.
30:43
Some of them aren't going to take you
30:46
seriously until they learn the hard way.
30:52
The first year's not going to be perfect,
30:55
but it's a learning curve.
30:57
Change is hard. Our clients have been spoiled.
31:00
They've been absolutely spoiled.
31:02
The fact that they're going to have to actually
31:04
pick a date and not just
31:06
willy-nilly drop it off whenever they want to
31:09
that's going to be an adjustment for them.
31:11
Lisa Simpson: It's so true. I'm just flashing back
31:13
to my days in a small firm,
31:16
and if they brought it in on the 10th,
31:18
we'd have it to them by April 15th.
31:20
We just that's what you did.
31:23
It wasn't healthy.
31:25
I'm glad you're breaking the cycle.
31:27
Brenda Cannon: Thank you. I know. It's crazy.
31:29
It's crazy to think,
31:30
and I wish I'd done it a long time ago,
31:31
but at least we're doing it now.
31:33
Lisa Simpson: Every time I talk to
31:34
someone for these conversations,
31:37
when I ask, what would you have done differently,
31:38
they always say, I wish I had started earlier.
31:41
That makes perfect sense.
31:43
I was processing on what you said about someone on
31:46
LinkedIn saying that his boss wouldn't go for this.
31:49
I wonder if there's a way to just pilot it maybe with
31:55
standalone 1040s or maybe
31:57
with this particular person's client list.
32:02
Could you just maybe gently start showing
32:06
how this could work on a pilot basis and then,
32:12
if you're in a larger firm,
32:14
maybe you roll it out over two or three years.
32:17
Do you have thoughts on that?
32:18
Brenda Cannon: Well, I've always felt
32:19
like you need to go all-in
32:21
because if you've got
32:23
other work that's going to get in
32:24
the way of the schedule work,
32:26
but it's like if you know
32:29
what returns you're going to
32:30
prepare within this larger firm,
32:32
you know what returns you're going to prepare,
32:34
I would try it and just add maybe
32:37
even more cushion in case they pull you off
32:40
on another project or something.
32:43
Or if you just want to do it for 1040s,
32:45
you're going to have to add a ton
32:47
of cushion for businesses.
32:49
I would just consider that.
32:52
Lisa Simpson: I'm glad we're talking it
32:54
sounded great to me,
32:55
but you're bringing in the in the trenches reality.
32:58
Do you feel like you give your clients a three week?
33:01
We'll get your return done in three weeks?
33:03
You feel like that's a reasonable turnaround time,
33:07
and your clients are okay with that turnaround time?
33:10
Brenda Cannon: Yes.
33:11
Lisa Simpson: Is there a magic to three weeks?
33:12
Is it four?
33:13
If it's four,
33:14
do you just keep pushing it out a little longer
33:16
or it's good just to keep it a little more narrow.
33:20
Brenda Cannon: I felt like two weeks
33:21
was a little too short.
33:23
We say the end of the week, three weeks later.
33:26
I don't know how we came up with that,
33:29
but it does give us at three week lead time.
33:33
If we're ahead of schedule,
33:35
we've still got clients that have given us tax docs.
33:38
If we're ahead of schedule,
33:40
I don't think we're ever going to
33:41
get so ahead of schedule,
33:42
we'd get caught up to their drop off date.
33:45
This is another thing.
33:47
I need to rely on my practice management software
33:50
more but I just wanted us
33:53
to know what our deadline was for each week.
33:56
We use our Schedule E software.
33:59
Everything's on the calendar.
34:00
After clients pick it, you can export that to Excel.
34:03
Then I just looked at,
34:06
what do we have to do by the end of this week
34:08
and by the end of next week?
34:10
I just had a little spreadsheet,
34:12
put it in a little pivot table
34:14
in our teams for the preparers.
34:17
Even though we use Firm360,
34:19
this was just our own little mini goals.
34:22
As you prepared one and sent it to our admin process,
34:26
just delete that line and refresh that pivot table.
34:29
You know each prepare,
34:31
how many returns they have left.
34:33
If we have EA,
34:35
[inaudible] part-time for us,
34:36
so there's three of us.
34:38
If I only had two left and Randy had 10,
34:42
then I might take three of his.
34:44
That between the three of us,
34:47
work is evenly balanced.
34:50
It's also very much psychological.
34:54
Every return I have to do by Friday,
34:57
I have a ton of hobbies.
34:59
I'm going to take the weekend off
35:00
and do what I want to do,
35:02
and I'm not going to feel guilty like,
35:04
what is it with guilt?
35:06
It really, truly has taken me a while to get over guilt.
35:11
Taking weekends off during February,
35:14
March, April. That's crazy.
35:16
Lisa Simpson: I love it. But I get it.
35:18
I would feel guilty initially,
35:20
but I love that you've fought through that,
35:23
and now you're taking them off and
35:24
enjoying them. I love it.
35:26
Brenda, this has been so much fun for me.
35:29
This has been a conversation I've been
35:30
looking forward to for a while.
35:32
I'm excited to get to share
35:35
your innovative approach to running your practice
35:39
and to making public accounting fun for you again
35:41
and busy season tax season fun for you again.
35:45
I hope that we can help amplify
35:47
the positive story that you've
35:49
got to tell about the profession. Thank you for that.
35:51
Brenda Cannon: I appreciate your having me on.
35:53
Lisa Simpson: I've enjoyed it. Thank you.
35:54
Brenda Cannon: Thanks.
35:55
Lisa Simpson: Thank you for tuning in to Transforming,
35:58
Tales of Business Evolution.
36:00
We hope you found today's insights valuable.
36:02
For more details on this episode, check the description,
36:05
and don't forget to subscribe to stay
36:07
updated with our new episodes each month.
36:10
Visit our PCPS,
36:11
Transforming your Business Model page for all of
36:14
our resources at www.aicpa-cima.com/tyvm.
36:22
Keep pushing the boundaries of transformation,
36:26
and we'll see you next time.
36:27
[MUSIC]
36:31
MALE_1: This content is designed to provide
36:33
illustrative information with respect
36:35
to the subject matter covered,
36:36
and does not represent an official opinion
36:38
or position of the AICPA,
36:40
the Association, or CIMA.
36:42
It is provided with the understanding that they are not
36:44
engaged in offering legal accounting
36:46
or other professional services.
36:48
If such advice or expert assistance is required,
36:51
the services of a competent,
36:52
professional person should be sought.
36:54
The AICPA, the Association,
36:56
and CIMA make no representations,
36:58
warranties, or guarantees as to,
37:00
and assume no responsibility for
37:02
the content or application of the material
37:04
contained herein and especially
37:06
disclaim all liability for
37:08
any damages arising out of the use of
37:09
reference to or reliance on such material.