Latest / The Action Catalyst / HeartPrint, with Meg Tuohey | (Psychology, Self-Help, Leadership, Emotional Intelligence)

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HeartPrint, with Meg Tuohey | (Psychology, Self-Help, Leadership, Emotional Intelligence) · The Action Catalyst

• 0:47
  Host: Meg Tuohey is a licensed psychologist, sought after speaker, author and host of the Wisdom Stripes podcast. Her work centers on helping women reconnect with themselves, understand their inner world and lead with clarity and wisdom. Her first book HeartPrint is out now. Meg, welcome.
• 1:06
  Meg Tuohey: Thank you for having me. I am the happiest to be here with you.
• 1:10
  Host: Now, look, the self help industry is everywhere now, especially with the rise of social media influencers and Tiktok, everybody is kind of an armchair self help guru, right? But you believe it's failing women in particular, and it's doing that by training women to override, to abandon themselves rather than trust themselves. So how is the self help messaging varying so radically for women versus I suppose, men? Do you think that's intentional, or is it an accidental byproduct of something else, and then, if it is intentional, what's the motivation?
• 1:46
  Meg Tuohey: I mean, they're very good questions and a powerful way to start this conversation. So I am in I don't know for sure it is differing, varying for women, because I'm not engaging in male content. So that for sure, I don't know, but what I do know for women is that we have never had access to more information, and in that information are well intentioned people most of the time, because I believe in the good of people who have figured out something for themselves and teach that one thing, and then teach a whole lot of other things that they're pretty sure about, or someone they know told them about. And it's a little bit of the path is well intentioned, you know, it's paved with good intentions. But the critical thinking, the analysis, the evidence based the going back and looking at the type of audience you're talking to and doesn't match what it is that you're teaching. None of that is possible in the social media world when you haven't had the background or
• 2:50
  experience in knowing how to sift and sort. I mean, I think there's a line, right? You know, like, we've been sourcing information from our neighbors and our community, our whole lives, our whole like, as far back as generations of recorded history show we use groups to share information, and in that sharing, we learn from the greater good. And so it's not that that's not relevant, actually that's a really important community basis. It's when we get into the nitty gritty of people posing as experts who actually have had success or experience in a niche, and then they expand it beyond the paradigms of what is okay to share, and they don't have that critical reflection. They don't have supervision or peer supervision, and that is where we start to see the unraveling of the safety of the advice.
• 3:46
  Host: So let's drill down here a little. There's a phrase you use that I think is really important to everything we're going to talk about, which is self override. Why is what you call self override so commonly mistaken as or packaged as growth?
• 4:03
  Meg Tuohey: Oh your questions you are like right in my favorite spaces of trickiness, because what we're really talking about with override is you get an internal nudge or voice. You know that thread we have without kind of inner wisdom, and we hear it or feel it, or sometimes people describe it as seeing it, where we're like, I'm at my limits. And the override is where we look at all the things we've got to do, and we think, Well, I can't, not do those things. And sometimes, legitimately, we can't. We are needing to provide for our families. We have dependence. We need to keep a roof over our head. We need those base levels intact. Essentially, though, where we're really getting into is the damage that is done from not being in harmony with the kind of idea of attunement, with what is actually okay for me, and where actually are my. Moments, and a lot of the time was sort of fly over the other side, towards stress, burnout, all of those sorts of things. And then we live there for so
• 5:10
  long we forget what it's like to have energy, to be able to down regulate, to connect with ourselves, to connect with other people, and to lead in a coherent way.
• 5:20
  Host: Is this why high achieving women often feel numb instead of fulfilled, which there's an interesting paradox there, isn't there, because their idea of what growth is is probably a little bit skewed, or might not be exactly right, but yet they are high achieving.
• 5:38
  Meg Tuohey: I guess my one of my whole philosophies is this idea of heartprint. It's what the book's about. And it is that if you and I were identical twins, which I know is literally impossible, because the best we could be is fraternal, right? But if we were literally identical twins, and we had the same DNA, we grew up in the same systems, and we went to the same school and infrastructure, culture, you and I would have a very different heartbreak, and you would need to be connected to yours to grow in the direction that is you and I would need to grow into mine, even if we looked almost like our parents couldn't tell us apart. At the age of 35 our lives would have to be quite different in order to satisfy who we are. So when we're talking about high achieving women, we can't make generalizations like even if they get it wrong, because we can't see what their heart print is. And the other piece of the puzzle, I think, is that everybody is working on something, and everybody
• 6:39
  has a question that they're trying to figure out in this life, a really hard question, and sometimes we can't tell what that person's question is from a distance. So I would say for those high achieving women, there is a heart print piece of the puzzle. There is a needs based there could be all kinds of tangles of pain and confusion in their past that are a driver, or it could be something totally different that we can't see. I guess what we want to get to is, if you are a person who is in that space where life doesn't feel like you're nourished and connected and you don't feel that fulfillment or satisfaction, then what we could guess is that there's a gap between you, who you are on the inside and the life you've made on the outside.
• 7:28
  Host: What is someone's heartprint?
• 7:30
  Meg Tuohey: Thank you for asking. I'm so glad you asked. It is like a blueprint. We've already done the twin analogy. Now let's do the seed analogy. So if we plant two seeds, we're going to see something emerge, some kind of plant variety. We haven't not an infinite but it feels like an infinite number of variations of plant life. Each of those plants that grows is going to express itself slightly differently. We're never going to have identical replicas. Even if we transfer that DNA, they're going to grow differently. And so what we're looking for from a heart group perspective, is the knowing that you will be exploring who you really are from birth all the way through to death, and you will never answer all your own questions. You will be as interesting as you were as a baby, as when you are 40 and 50 and 60, because the next part of you emerges, and particularly when you're living in that kind of heart coherence with your mind and body, where
• 8:31
  you're just like very attuned to yourself and and mindfully creating a life that is good for you, then that's where the interesting part comes for life, because we get to see who you're going to be.
• 8:44
  Host: Having that self attunement. What is it exactly that you find elite performers in whatever field that may be, what is it that you find elite performers listen to internally?
• 8:56
  Meg Tuohey: Goodness. This is a fun podcast, because this is a really fun question. So I my beautiful brain, my heart, print, it maps things. And so if we were looking at an elite performer, whether it's an athlete, a musician, a creative, wherever you see that level of differentiation, because Elite is, you know, already is putting us in the small percentage of the humans, then what we are looking at is like a spiky profile. Essentially, we're looking at someone who has a very big strength in one area. And that is a really interesting conversation, because when we're looking at strengths, we're looking at a brain that chooses the thing it's good at unconsciously all the time, because brains like to protect their energy sources. They like to go with what they're good at, and sometimes that's to our detriment, because we could choose something different, but we go with familiar. And so the. Internal experience of somebody who is an elite performer in any category is
• 10:05
  one where the baseline is is kind of underpinned by the brain's preference for that strength, and which is often Least Resistance. To be honest, they often are entwined, and so brains, they use a lot of energy, so they don't like doing new things. They find it threatening, and they find it uses a lot of power, and so given any of any kind of context, the brain is going to choose the fastest way to resolve back to homeostasis.
• 10:38
  Host: There's sort of a age old cliche about we've all heard the term women's intuition, right? But you'd say that intuition is actually becoming the next big emotional survival skill.
• 10:50
  Meg Tuohey: Look, what I can tell you is not just women, although we do, we are known for our intuition, which I love. But I think all the humans have intuition, and intuition is that inner knowing, and that inner knowing is that thread. So when we're born, we are born perfectly whole, and we kind of know what we need, and we know what's good for us. And over time, life gets in the way, and we get further and further apart from who we really are. And that intuition is that inner knowing, it's that inner wisdom, and the stronger or thicker the connection that wisdom is, the easier it is for us to navigate a life and choose things that line up with our values, our beliefs and our heart print. And of course, the more that we live in the direction of that, the greater access we have to contentment and satisfaction.
• 11:42
  Host: Yeah. Emotional literacy, relational intelligence are both something that female leaders in particular often excel at over their male counterparts, yet it might be harder to spot. Can you give us some examples of leading with relational intelligence in a business environment, in particular, maybe a high stakes business environment.
• 12:05
  Meg Tuohey: So if we're thinking about emotional literacy, what we're talking about is emotional intelligence, and that is actually one of the five areas of giftedness, which is a really interesting idea. So from a giftedness perspective, males and females both have sort of equal access to both. And so it's not really that women would be more emotionally intelligent from that gifted lens than men. It might be that we just see it socialized in different ways. So that's where we'll start. And then we'll go into the idea of emotional intelligence leveraged in a business environment and how that can help maneuver. So when we're talking business, and I did my time in big corporate, actually, when we're looking at that, we need a mixture of skills. So if we're you and I are in a tough negotiation, we need some high IQ around the table, and we need some high EQ around the table, and we need to know when to pull what lever, and that is a higher order of functioning. So we
• 13:10
  actually need somebody who is in that abstract reasoning part of their beautiful brains, because all of us can do abstract reasoning, but it requires more energy from the brain. So in order for us to sift and sort, we need to be able to see what it is is our outcome and what are the pathways that are most likely to do that, whether that's in a partnership or a group or individually, that's the kind of process you're going to be sitting with. What is my outcome? And what is it the person across from me is looking to have their have as that outcome, and what needs do they have that I can meet? Is it the social connection, or is it the actual numbers and making sure they line up? And it's going to be different for each one, but it's the abstract reasoning that's the main kind of leverage here, which is I'm not in concrete thinking. I'm not thinking black or white, on or off, in or out. I am up in my top part of my beautiful brain, and I'm synthesizing rapidly and matching to
• 14:12
  the experience.
• 14:13
  Host: So we've all heard that, you know, that men need to understand that women have different emotional needs than they do, whether that's in a personal or professional setting. News flash, men and women have different needs. We know this. Once someone has accepted that that difference exists, what specifically do they need to understand be able to work together more harmoniously, like after we've established at a baseline, yes, there's different things. Then what?
• 14:42
  Meg Tuohey: I think the very first thing is we might know that there's a difference, and if we use you and me again as an example, I might understand that you're different to me, and you might understand it, and we might be able to even say it out loud. But the very next thing is the thing that's most treacherous, which is, can I. Actually remember that you are different to me when I feel threatened by your differences, and so in this moment, we're cool. I like, Okay, I got it. You like it this way? I like it that way. It's fine when we've got enough energy in the tank and we've, you know, it's not something that is a difficult context for us, but it is very hard to remember that differences are not life threatening or relationship ending, and to be able to tolerate that distress when those contexts come together. So it is very much about the safety in self and how you can feel safe about who you are and that you are different to your loved one, and that your loved
• 15:44
  one can be different to you, and you are okay as well. And it works, of course, both ways, both partners need to build that, and that is actually much harder than it is to say I can say it much faster than it is to build that skill set. Humans, we're very complicated creatures. You know, never things aren't really as clean as the way in which you're describing them. And that is where it comes into play, is that I can remember when I feel good, and maybe I don't mind so much, but maybe I mind a little, and then that just adds a little kind of pile of rubble from our relationship feeling strong, and over time, those small things eat away until at some point, I'm going to be all like that. Difference of yours is dot, dot, dot. And perhaps I'll make it wrong, or perhaps I'll tell you that my way is better, or perhaps I'll say I can't live like this. And you know, 70% of couples differences are perpetual, which means that you're going to be working on them right across your
• 16:50
  life together. And it's very normal, but most of us like, well, you should be the same as me, and when you're not the same as me, that's very threatening, and it's mostly threatening to a brain. The brain is like, I like it better when we agree, I like it better when there's harmony.
• 17:07
  Host: Yeah, we mentioned heartprint earlier. I do have a fun lightning round for you I'd love to get into but I don't want to do that until we talk about the book, where people can get it. Where can everybody get the book, and then where else can they connect with you and learn about your other work, your podcast?
• 17:25
  Meg Tuohey: Amazing. So HeartPrint is on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, and you can find me at MegTuoheyofficial on Instagram. And I also have Wisdom Stripes, my podcast, which did a million downloads in 2025 so if you want to come learn about the wisdom through me, interviewing other people and distilling their nuggets of what it is that they walked through the fire to get then you're very welcome over with us as well.
• 17:52
  Host: I love distilled nuggets. They're my favorite.
• 17:54
  Meg Tuohey: Me too.
• 17:56
  Host: All right, lightning round, what's one thing that you own that you should probably throw out?
• 18:03
  Meg Tuohey: Wow. What would be really nice is if that, if we could put down rather than throw out, if we could put down our negative judgment against ourselves when we feel tired or hurt or vulnerable.
• 18:17
  Host: Let's see, what's one habit or practice that you have, that you think saves you the most time each day?
• 18:24
  Meg Tuohey: Yeah, this is not bragging. This is literal. And if you hear this and it makes you not feel very good about yourself, it is not intended for that. I made a commitment to myself in October 2019 to meditate every day. And I have not missed a day. I have not missed a day. And in September 2025 I added a morning meditation that I do sometimes miss. I came from such pain and confusion, which is why I have done the work that I've done, that meditation was the only way I could sort of still everything and sleep and recover. And it wasn't that I did it as any other kind of thing, and now I just still see it as this daily nourishment of wiping the slate clean so that I can show up the next day. And am I still human? And do I still get things wrong? Yes, do I sometimes not get that slate all the way clean? Yes, but do I do it every day regardless? Also, yes, you've got to find the thing that gives you some relief from being human. And for me, meditation is where the
• 19:33
  stillness lives, which cleans up all of the things about living in a human suit. So my invitation to you is, if it's running, if it's cycling, if it's swimming, if it's cooking, if it's gardening, if it's woodwork. I don't mind what it is. Just give yourself the gift of that relief as often as you can.
• 19:54
  Host: Well the title of this episode is going to be "living in a human suit" now.
• 20:00
  Meg Tuohey: Its tricky to live here!
• 20:02
  Host: What is something significant that you have changed your mind about recently? Used to think one thing. Now you think something else.
• 20:12
  Meg Tuohey: Again, nobody's asked me this question, and I like to answer things well, I have a light hearted answer for you, because we could go really heavy, right? But because this question is, where my brain went? Was like, into the big, worldly things, but I think I'm gonna go live. I have accidentally started reading fantasy books. It was an accident. I never got into the hobbit I never watched the movies. And all of a sudden I'm a person who was like, wow, these are very cool. And I do have these memories of being a teenager or an early 20s and being a bit judgy about that, and I must apologize, because, turns out, the genre is amazing. It's plausible that I was focused in other spaces, and it's just now revealing itself. I think maybe the piece that we could underline is that I used to be a bit judgey about it, and so with the wisdom of my years, it's a good reminder to self that when we judge, we don't necessarily know that, not in 30 years time, we might be people who
• 21:18
  like the thing that we're judging, that's a good reminder, isn't it?
• 21:23
  Host: That's a good lesson. What's a decision that you've made that you're proud of because it cost you something?
• 21:31
  Meg Tuohey: I've made some really hard decisions in my life. One of the things I know about myself is that I'm brave, and that is something that you learn when you've walked through some fire. So okay, I'm going to go with a business one. So I had a consulting company not mine. I was working with one, and I really, really liked the founder, and things were bumpy for a good 12 months, and I hung in there, and they hung in there, and ultimately the relationship came to an end. And you know when, when a relationship ends, it's like, I'll use a tree metaphor. It's like a branch is being cut off. You can always see where it ended, even though the tree keeps growing. And I'm really proud that I hung in there as long as I did, and that that other person did as well. And I also still feel the like the ghost limb, you know, like I still feel like I missed that experience, and also it was still right for that relationship to come to an end. Those are the kinds of things, I think, where
• 22:40
  bravery lives, where you give it your all, and maybe too long, but also you don't want to not give it everything you've got. You know?
• 22:49
  Host: Yeah, makes perfect sense.
• 22:51
  Meg Tuohey: I just love these questions. These were really amazing questions.
• 22:56
  Host: Well, I'm glad you think so, and so thank you for being so generous with your time.
• 23:00
  Meg Tuohey: I loved it. There's not very often that you meet a similar brain, and so I love I loved it. Loved it.