Transcript

Credlin | 9 April · Credlin

0:02
Speaker 1: Peter Krandlin live on sky Ingins Australia.
0:07
Speaker 2: Good evening, welcome to the program. Here's what's coming up
0:10
Speaker 2: tonight on Kredline. With little over a month until Labour's budget,
0:14
Speaker 2: the government's already trying to butter you up for a
0:16
Speaker 2: bad set of numbers and yet more inflationary spending. They
0:20
Speaker 2: know one nation is also impacting the Labor vote. Their
0:24
Speaker 2: excuse will be the war. It's always about the politics
0:28
Speaker 2: with this mob. Tonight to the ceasefire on that war
0:31
Speaker 2: looks already pretty shaky. Iran is trying to exert control
0:36
Speaker 2: over the Strait. Tony Abott will join me for his
0:38
Speaker 2: assessment on this and Iran's ten point plan. How much
0:43
Speaker 2: can the US really accept?
0:46
Speaker 3: Plus?
0:46
Speaker 2: Yesterday Chris Bowen called for reporters to show some respect.
0:49
Speaker 2: He said, well, tonight I'll speak to a farmer who
0:52
Speaker 2: feels pretty disrespected by that minister as he's forced to
0:55
Speaker 2: cop massive transmission towers on his farm and the PM,
1:01
Speaker 2: desperate not to lose votes in Western Sydney, goes into
1:04
Speaker 2: bat for Lebanon.
1:06
Speaker 4: The Australian government also firmly believes that this has to
1:10
Speaker 4: apply to Lebanon as well.
1:19
Speaker 2: But first, the Albanezy government is in trouble when Australia's
1:22
Speaker 2: dead hits one trillion dollars in a few weeks time,
1:26
Speaker 2: at the same time as our inflation rate continues to
1:29
Speaker 2: climb and fuel crisis by its hard into the ability
1:32
Speaker 2: of businesses to survive and workers to hold their jobs.
1:36
Speaker 2: It's why the Prime Minister today and his treasurer both
1:39
Speaker 2: use Iran war as justification for what's likely to be
1:43
Speaker 2: months of economic chopping waters. And they'll grab it like
1:47
Speaker 2: drowning men grab a life raft because they both know
1:50
Speaker 2: their spending and lack of budget discipline on things like
1:53
Speaker 2: the NDS have got us into this position, and if
1:56
Speaker 2: they can blame Donald Trump, they might just get away
1:59
Speaker 2: with it. That's certainly Labour's thinking. What's more, Labor hard
2:04
Speaker 2: heads aren't stupid. Paul ericson Labour's highly successful campaign, Boss, well,
2:09
Speaker 2: he'll be smart enough to understand that the riots in
2:12
Speaker 2: support for One Nation isn't just hurting the center right,
2:16
Speaker 2: it's also ripping a part Labour's old working class base,
2:21
Speaker 2: who feel they've been abandoned by the green activists that
2:24
Speaker 2: now run the modern alp SO. Watch for how Labour's
2:28
Speaker 2: going to use the upcoming made budget as a big
2:31
Speaker 2: time brand reset. We love the working class, they'll say,
2:36
Speaker 2: and here's the money to prove it, as they hand
2:38
Speaker 2: out billions more in cost of living relief and use
2:41
Speaker 2: tax changes to target the so called rich. What we
2:45
Speaker 2: will see in May is a class wall budget designed
2:49
Speaker 2: to stem the bleed of labor votes to one nation,
2:53
Speaker 2: and the Prime Minister will use the excuse of Trump's
2:55
Speaker 2: war in the Middle East to explain the increase in
2:58
Speaker 2: inflation that will end inevitably come as a result of
3:02
Speaker 2: reckless spending. We know the Albanezer government isn't learning the
3:07
Speaker 2: lessons it should from the fuel crisis, because if that
3:10
Speaker 2: were true, they would immediately drop all of their mad
3:14
Speaker 2: renewable energy targets. Does anyone think we'll get to eighty
3:19
Speaker 2: two percent renewables in four years time, or if we do,
3:22
Speaker 2: we can afford it. No, that's beyond ridiculous, and that
3:27
Speaker 2: perhaps is why it's now being removed from Labour's official
3:31
Speaker 2: party platform, something picked up by a canny journalist that
3:35
Speaker 2: then caused this squirming from Chris Bowen. Labour's draft national
3:40
Speaker 2: policy platforms doesn't mention the two except renewable start blow
3:44
Speaker 2: twenty three at all.
3:46
Speaker 5: The platform is a high level document.
3:48
Speaker 4: I know that the Labour partiy on the party which
3:51
Speaker 4: goes through the process of bothering to have a platform.
3:53
Speaker 6: Others don't bother it.
3:53
Speaker 3: That's the matter for them.
3:54
Speaker 1: We'd have a platform which is a high level statement
3:56
Speaker 1: of principles.
3:58
Speaker 2: If the government really was serious about learning the right
4:01
Speaker 2: lessons from the fuel crisis, it would admit to our
4:04
Speaker 2: fossil fuel dependency, it had dropped the targets altogether, and
4:08
Speaker 2: it would set about rapidly increasing our onshore fuel capacity.
4:14
Speaker 2: The Albanezer government can tell us toll it's blue in
4:15
Speaker 2: its face that its secured supplies, but any supplies that
4:20
Speaker 2: come from the Persian Gulf are going to be inherently
4:24
Speaker 2: unreliable and extortionately expensive as long as Iran's controlling the
4:29
Speaker 2: straits of Hormus. The longer the crisis lasts, the more
4:33
Speaker 2: obvious is the Albanezi governments innate hostility to America. Here's
4:39
Speaker 2: the Treasurer today blaming America for our fuel woes, which
4:43
Speaker 2: he will then also use to explain the appalling budget position,
4:47
Speaker 2: even though the deeper problem is labour's fossil fuel phobia
4:52
Speaker 2: and spending addiction.
4:54
Speaker 7: So the government's focus is fuel security, supply chain resilience
4:58
Speaker 7: and also putting together a budget in the face of
5:01
Speaker 7: this really quite serious economic volatility.
5:06
Speaker 2: And look, here's the PM yet again, talking about supply.
5:09
Speaker 2: But it's always supply from overseas, because climate obsessives can't
5:15
Speaker 2: contemplate actually drilling for oil and gas in Australia.
5:19
Speaker 4: We get fuel from Singapore. And yes, thea's arrangements are important.
5:24
Speaker 4: And if the ceasefire holds, that doesn't mean that the
5:29
Speaker 4: world global capacity comes online in a week or a month.
5:34
Speaker 4: It will take a considerable period of time.
5:39
Speaker 2: And let me just make this point about his trip
5:41
Speaker 2: to Singapore today and tomorrow. The deal's been done. He
5:45
Speaker 2: wouldn't be going there to sign a bit of paper
5:48
Speaker 2: if the deal wasn't already done. It's been done by
5:51
Speaker 2: the bureaucrats. So he is wasting fuel and he's great
5:55
Speaker 2: big jet just for the photo op. But the longer
5:59
Speaker 2: this christ last, the more obvious is the Albanezi government's
6:03
Speaker 2: inability to be more than an impotent bystander. Here's a
6:07
Speaker 2: Prime minister again, piously insisting that the ceasefire also apply
6:12
Speaker 2: to Lebanon, as if Israel's supposed to tolerate Hezbollah, Iran's
6:17
Speaker 2: proxy indiscriminately launching missiles towards its northern towns.
6:25
Speaker 4: This is an important step forward. Of course, it is
6:28
Speaker 4: a fragile piece, but we want it to lead to
6:31
Speaker 4: an agreement. The Australian government also firmly believes that this
6:36
Speaker 4: has to apply to Lebanon as well.
6:40
Speaker 2: Now, come on, globally, is anyone interested in what the
6:43
Speaker 2: Australian government has to say here given our unwillingness or
6:48
Speaker 2: inability to do anything other than moralized from the sidelines
6:52
Speaker 2: and constantly call for de escalation as if any deal
6:56
Speaker 2: with an apocalyptic Islamist dictatorship which thinks that lying for
7:00
Speaker 2: Aurla is fine, is worth the paper it's written on.
7:05
Speaker 2: The basic problem here is the inability of the Albanezer
7:08
Speaker 2: government to decide whose side it's really on. Is it
7:12
Speaker 2: for America, our main ally and the leader of the
7:15
Speaker 2: free world, or is its Marxist subconscious and eagerness to
7:20
Speaker 2: appease the Muslim voting block in seats in Western Sydney
7:24
Speaker 2: driving it to be more of a hindrance than a
7:27
Speaker 2: help to our friends and allies. Even sensible commentators are
7:32
Speaker 2: in danger of letting their understandable frustration with Donald Trump's
7:36
Speaker 2: bluster obscure what's.
7:38
Speaker 3: Really at stake here.
7:41
Speaker 2: And yes, yes, the president's rehtoric often doesn't help, and
7:44
Speaker 2: I'm not always on the side of the US President
7:46
Speaker 2: as a politician. Even so, given the choice between the
7:50
Speaker 2: crazy Islamis in Tehran that want to blow up the
7:53
Speaker 2: world and the United States, I know what side I
7:58
Speaker 2: am on. That some pece will even think there's a
8:01
Speaker 2: choice here. Well, that staggers me. As Trump pushes hard
8:05
Speaker 2: to win the conflict, there are real risks. But because
8:09
Speaker 2: he's doing it alone, with just Israel full's support, you
8:13
Speaker 2: can understand why he wants out. Australia, Britain, the Europeans
8:18
Speaker 2: should all have been offering America and Israel diplomatic support
8:21
Speaker 2: that they need to finish the job instead of radiating
8:25
Speaker 2: this constant public disapproval. Because if the price of ending
8:29
Speaker 2: the war is leaving Iran controlling the Strait of Hormuz,
8:33
Speaker 2: charging an extortionate toll and every ship passing through, that's
8:38
Speaker 2: no win.
8:39
Speaker 3: It is a catastrophe. A catastrophe for us, not the.
8:43
Speaker 2: United states, but one for us because we are dependent
8:46
Speaker 2: on oil through the Gulf to survive, not the US.
8:51
Speaker 2: They have made themselves energy self sufficient. We should be
8:55
Speaker 2: two only we refuse to be the only satisfactory. Ending
9:00
Speaker 2: to this Iran disarmament and opening up the Straits is
9:05
Speaker 2: for shipping to be free and open. If the Australian
9:09
Speaker 2: government can't help because of military weakness or moral characters,
9:13
Speaker 2: it should leave the geopolitics to the serious players and
9:17
Speaker 2: let America and Israel get on and finish the job properly.
9:25
Speaker 8: All right.
9:26
Speaker 2: Headlines now out of Canberra with skyni's political reporter Trudy Macintosh.
9:31
Speaker 9: The Prime Minister is in Singapore tonight ahead of a
9:33
Speaker 9: meeting to sure up Australia's fuel supply, before jetting out
9:37
Speaker 9: visiting one of Australia's remaining refineries, announcing new deals with
9:41
Speaker 9: Viva and Ampoll to secure more supply.
9:44
Speaker 4: This is not business as usually using new.
9:47
Speaker 9: Powers to underwrite fuel imports. It allows companies to purchase
9:51
Speaker 9: more supply on the spot market without the risk of
9:53
Speaker 9: a price spike.
9:54
Speaker 4: And to go out and buy that fuel for Australians
9:59
Speaker 4: that otherwise we'll go other countries.
10:00
Speaker 9: The opposition leader is calling on the government to provide
10:03
Speaker 9: real time updates on fuel disruptions.
10:06
Speaker 10: If you don't measure the crisis, you can't manage the crisis.
10:09
Speaker 9: The Energy Minister points to his regular updates through the media.
10:12
Speaker 1: But as you know, I hold a press conference every
10:15
Speaker 1: day on service stations, but I hold a press conference
10:17
Speaker 1: every Saturday on deliveries.
10:19
Speaker 6: That's pretty transparent.
10:20
Speaker 2: We see these farcical press conferences.
10:22
Speaker 1: We just need a dashboard with the information there.
10:24
Speaker 9: The Prime Minister has welcomed the two week pause in
10:27
Speaker 9: the Iran conflict, but wants the cease fire to extend
10:30
Speaker 9: more broadly.
10:31
Speaker 4: This has to apply to Lebanon as well.
10:35
Speaker 9: Australia is not alone, joining calls from the EU, UK
10:39
Speaker 9: and Canada.
10:40
Speaker 3: It should be observed by Israel and by Hesbellah.
10:43
Speaker 9: The US and Israel say Lebanon was not part of
10:46
Speaker 9: the deal. Iran says it was.
10:48
Speaker 6: You forced to choose between whether we believe the United
10:51
Speaker 6: States and Israel on one hand, or the Islamic Republic
10:53
Speaker 6: of Iran on the other.
10:54
Speaker 3: I think that's an easy choice.
10:55
Speaker 1: The continued conflict in Lebanon risks, and already fragile cease far.
11:02
Speaker 9: Trudy Macintosh, Sky News Canberra.
11:06
Speaker 2: I remind you home to HEZBOLLA is a listed terror
11:09
Speaker 2: organization in Australia. Thank you, pennywom I'll come back to that,
11:13
Speaker 2: but plenty of domestic stuff I'm going to get across.
11:15
Speaker 2: Join me now on my panel. Skyning is contributed to
11:17
Speaker 2: carolely Kats and Barnas and l and p MP Phil Thompson.
11:21
Speaker 2: Welcome to you both. I want to start with the
11:24
Speaker 2: position I was putting at the top of the show.
11:27
Speaker 2: Labour's well worn narrative as we approach the budget is
11:31
Speaker 2: already starting to play out. They are blaming a bad
11:34
Speaker 2: set of numbers and the potential for inflationary spending on
11:38
Speaker 2: the war makes.
11:39
Speaker 11: Me do it.
11:39
Speaker 2: It's all about the war. They're going to use this
11:42
Speaker 2: as cover, aren't they, Caroly?
11:44
Speaker 11: They sure are, Peter Good evening, and the problem is
11:47
Speaker 11: commonwealths debt is reaching nearly a trillion dollars and in
11:51
Speaker 11: order to get their base back, they're going to have
11:53
Speaker 11: to actually stop spending on these ridiculous programs and bring
11:56
Speaker 11: the budget back under control. But we know that they're
11:58
Speaker 11: not going to do that because they are following these
12:00
Speaker 11: ridiculous renewable policies and green energy programs and transgender and
12:06
Speaker 11: progender and all this stuff, and it's just not going
12:09
Speaker 11: to work. And the other thing is it should be
12:11
Speaker 11: absolutely horrific. Whether there was a conflict in Iran or
12:14
Speaker 11: the Middle East or whatever. The lack of fuel in
12:17
Speaker 11: Australia has been exposed, you know, less than a month's supply.
12:21
Speaker 3: That needs to be fixed.
12:22
Speaker 11: They keep wasting a lot of taxpayer budget, taxpayer dollars
12:25
Speaker 11: for this budget and they actually need to just you know,
12:28
Speaker 11: bring the books.
12:29
Speaker 3: But as you say, they're just going to blame the war.
12:31
Speaker 2: Phil I was talking to a very shrewd polster and
12:35
Speaker 2: political strategist today. He said, I can see where this
12:39
Speaker 2: is going. They'll use the budget for a rebrand because
12:42
Speaker 2: you need to understand, we all focus on the center, right,
12:45
Speaker 2: but they are having their lunch cut for them and
12:48
Speaker 2: eaten for them by one nation. One nation is really
12:51
Speaker 2: going hard after that working class vote that feel abandoned
12:55
Speaker 2: by modern labor. And of course we know they if
12:58
Speaker 2: they try and buy votes in the budget, that's going
13:00
Speaker 2: to hit inflation, which is going to hit interest rates.
13:06
Speaker 12: Oh absolutely, And I think that you know, people need
13:10
Speaker 12: to realize it's not the government's money. This isn't the
13:15
Speaker 12: Labor Party you know, war chest of money. This is
13:18
Speaker 12: tax payer dollars. It's your money. So when when they
13:22
Speaker 12: run out of it, or they want to change, or
13:24
Speaker 12: they want to blame a war or something else that
13:27
Speaker 12: you know, you turn on the channel every other day,
13:29
Speaker 12: there'll be something else that Jim Chalmers and Prime Minister
13:32
Speaker 12: Albanzi want to blame. It's not their money, it is
13:37
Speaker 12: the Australian people. And we've seen nearly fifty billion dollars
13:42
Speaker 12: that they somehow miscalculated last time has now been thrown
13:47
Speaker 12: on the tables. Oh, we've got an extra fifty billion
13:50
Speaker 12: dollars that we made a mistake on. It just a
13:52
Speaker 12: rounding area. It's not a rounding error. That is someone
13:56
Speaker 12: that that is hardworking Australians. Money been put in to
14:00
Speaker 12: the government because the Australian people expect their government, the
14:05
Speaker 12: people that are being voted in to lead this nation,
14:07
Speaker 12: to spend their hard earned tax dollars in the right places.
14:11
Speaker 12: I don't think that's happening. I don't think anyone thinks
14:13
Speaker 12: that's happening. And it's not Iran's problem. It's not the
14:17
Speaker 12: United States problem. It's not anyone else's fault. This is
14:20
Speaker 12: our government has mismanaged its budget. It's mismanaged the Australian
14:25
Speaker 12: people's taxpayer dollars. They're hard earned work for money, and
14:30
Speaker 12: now we're in this place. We're going to have a
14:32
Speaker 12: trillion dollars.
14:33
Speaker 3: Of debt, not in COVID, Not in COVID.
14:36
Speaker 12: We're going to have a trillion dollars of debt because
14:38
Speaker 12: of Jim Chalmers too worried about this green energy at
14:42
Speaker 12: any cost, and it is going to drive our nation
14:45
Speaker 12: into the ground.
14:47
Speaker 2: And they're not doing much about it. We know about
14:50
Speaker 2: the rawts of things like the ndi IS. We know
14:52
Speaker 2: the NDIS and the massive expansion of that workforce because
14:57
Speaker 2: you know there's government money at the end of it.
14:59
Speaker 3: All is hit our productivity.
15:01
Speaker 2: But when you get this from even labor MPs, you
15:04
Speaker 2: know the scheme is losing support.
15:07
Speaker 3: Have a listen.
15:08
Speaker 13: The NDIS is a vitally important piece of social infrastructure,
15:13
Speaker 13: but its social license is crumbling. Clearly, a program that
15:17
Speaker 13: is cost heading towards sixty three billion in a few years,
15:21
Speaker 13: that costs double the amount of Medicare is not sustainable.
15:28
Speaker 2: Now I make that point about medicare a lot. She
15:31
Speaker 2: is a doctor Carolia, she's a labor mp as I said,
15:34
Speaker 2: and she's right.
15:36
Speaker 11: Well, she is right because it doesn't allow for more
15:38
Speaker 11: expansion into other industries that Australia needs to be diversifying in.
15:42
Speaker 11: We're trying to attract investment to this country and all
15:46
Speaker 11: this money is just going around and around in a
15:48
Speaker 11: circular economy. It's disappointing because there are a lot of
15:52
Speaker 11: areas that could be cut, not for the people on
15:55
Speaker 11: the ndis that really need it. But we keep hearing
15:57
Speaker 11: about these roughts that are uncovered. But it goes around
16:00
Speaker 11: and around, and there's always a flavor of labor and
16:04
Speaker 11: something that is there. It needs to go back to basics,
16:07
Speaker 11: but they're not going to do it because it suits
16:09
Speaker 11: their narrative to just keep it going.
16:11
Speaker 3: Have a look at this one, Phil.
16:13
Speaker 2: We know the talk at the time, the warnings from
16:15
Speaker 2: economists that if you have this five percent deposit scheme
16:19
Speaker 2: for first home buyers, it would drive up the price
16:21
Speaker 2: of the houses. Well that's absolutely now known and true.
16:25
Speaker 2: Abstats confirmed there's been a seven percent hike in the
16:29
Speaker 2: price of homes that are eligible for the scheme. But
16:32
Speaker 2: what about this uncovered yesterday nearly fifty thousand people that
16:37
Speaker 2: are non citizens so they are not Australians, have brought
16:42
Speaker 2: you homes under this scheme, and yet so many of
16:45
Speaker 2: our own young people cannot get into the market.
16:51
Speaker 12: That is ridiculous. That's really upsetting. Actually, Like I, I
16:59
Speaker 12: really a government's job is to make sure that Australians
17:04
Speaker 12: have homes to live in, affordable, livable places to buy.
17:10
Speaker 12: And allowing non Australian citizens to be involved in a
17:14
Speaker 12: scheme that I just think it's ridiculous. Fact that home
17:19
Speaker 12: ownership is the Australian dream, it's what we want to
17:22
Speaker 12: bring back, it's what every government should aspire to be.
17:26
Speaker 12: To allow non citizens to do this just shows that
17:29
Speaker 12: we have an absolute problem in this country when we're
17:33
Speaker 12: looking at home ownership. But also if we bring too
17:35
Speaker 12: many people in we don't have enough homes to put
17:38
Speaker 12: Australians in, We're going to see the crisis that we face.
17:42
Speaker 12: You know what, that's really bad from this government and
17:45
Speaker 12: any government. To be honest, I don't care what color
17:47
Speaker 12: shirt would do this. I think that needs to be revisited.
17:51
Speaker 12: I don't have any faith in Minister Clara O'Neil. You
17:54
Speaker 12: know we saw the debarcle when she was Home Affairs Minister.
17:58
Speaker 12: I can't see her fixing this. The Prime Minister needs
18:01
Speaker 12: a step in because this is disgraceful.
18:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I look forward to you raising this one
18:06
Speaker 2: in the Parliament because I think it's really going to
18:08
Speaker 2: get a head of steam. Let's go back to childcare Carellin.
18:11
Speaker 2: We talk about it a lot. In this program, sixteen
18:13
Speaker 2: billion dollars a year is spent and we now see
18:17
Speaker 2: this statistical data out today in relation to New South
18:20
Speaker 2: Wales four thousand enforcement actions against childcare centers in Victoria
18:26
Speaker 2: higher four and a half thousand. We're talking about twelve
18:30
Speaker 2: centers a day being hit with a breach. I tell
18:35
Speaker 2: you if I had a young child and I was
18:37
Speaker 2: forced to use unionized childcare, I don't think I think
18:41
Speaker 2: they were safe.
18:42
Speaker 11: Well with the childcare sector has been plunged into crisis,
18:45
Speaker 11: as we know with everything that happened in Victoria last year.
18:49
Speaker 3: There's an easy answer.
18:50
Speaker 11: Stop funding the childcare centers directly give the choice back
18:54
Speaker 11: to parents, like the Federal Coalition of wanting to do,
18:57
Speaker 11: let them make the decision as to what is best
18:59
Speaker 11: for their child, whether they have a family friend or
19:01
Speaker 11: a nanny to do it. Because the money going into
19:04
Speaker 11: the childcare centers, the operators, there are a lot of
19:07
Speaker 11: shonky ones. They put the prices up, they get the subsidies,
19:10
Speaker 11: the rebates. As you've outlined many times on your show,
19:13
Speaker 11: you can still be subsidized for childcare on an income
19:16
Speaker 11: of five hundred thousand dollars.
19:18
Speaker 3: It's not right.
19:19
Speaker 11: And the thing is just stop funding the childcare centers
19:22
Speaker 11: directly and you'll get an easy fix.
19:26
Speaker 3: Phil.
19:26
Speaker 2: I've got to ask you this before we go, because
19:28
Speaker 2: you've written about the arrest of Ben Roberts Smith today
19:31
Speaker 2: in the Courier Mail, and of course you are yourself
19:34
Speaker 2: a veteran.
19:35
Speaker 3: What's been your reaction.
19:42
Speaker 12: I'm full of mixed emotions, to be honest, Peter. You
19:46
Speaker 12: know I serve there and many of many of our
19:50
Speaker 12: adf personal have of work as well, and our special
19:53
Speaker 12: forces do an amazing job. And to see this play
19:57
Speaker 12: out just weeks before in Zact Day, you know, it's hurtful,
20:00
Speaker 12: it's painful. It's something that we are watching and you
20:04
Speaker 12: know it's not a good feeling. But at the end
20:06
Speaker 12: of the at the start of this you know, Ben
20:09
Speaker 12: Roberts Smith is innocent until proven guilty, and that's the
20:13
Speaker 12: way that it should be looked at and viewed as.
20:15
Speaker 12: And it's a shame that other media outlets are portraying
20:19
Speaker 12: it in a different light. And it's something that the
20:22
Speaker 12: veteran community is speaking.
20:23
Speaker 8: A lot about now.
20:24
Speaker 12: And I'm getting a lot of calls and messages from
20:27
Speaker 12: families from serving and former serving personnel and you know
20:31
Speaker 12: that they feel they feel let down and they feel
20:34
Speaker 12: upset about this.
20:36
Speaker 3: You're not wrong, Thank you to you both.
20:39
Speaker 14: Right.
20:39
Speaker 2: I will stay with the case pending against Australia's most
20:43
Speaker 2: highly decorated war hero because there are more revelations today
20:46
Speaker 2: that you deserve to know about. Previously, nine Media won
20:50
Speaker 2: a defamation case against the former soldier under the civil
20:53
Speaker 2: burden of proof, So the civil test of guilt, and
20:56
Speaker 2: that's on the balance of probabilities. Now in a criminal case,
20:59
Speaker 2: which is what this will be, that burden of proof.
21:02
Speaker 3: Must be higher.
21:04
Speaker 2: It must be proved by the prosecution that the accused
21:08
Speaker 2: is guilty in this case of war crimes beyond reasonable doubt.
21:12
Speaker 2: And as you've heard me already say this week, the
21:14
Speaker 2: evidence used by the prosecution to make the case. It'll
21:19
Speaker 2: be key, but not necessarily easy to produce. Now, someone
21:24
Speaker 2: who understands this far better than most is my next guest,
21:27
Speaker 2: Bruce Levitt, who has himself served in the ADF as
21:31
Speaker 2: well as the New South Wales Panel leader of the
21:34
Speaker 2: Australian Army Legal Corps. Mister Levitt practices privately as a
21:38
Speaker 2: barrister and he joins me, now, well, thank you for
21:41
Speaker 2: your time. I've said today, you certainly said today that
21:47
Speaker 2: the prosecutors will struggle to get a successful conviction for
21:51
Speaker 2: war crimes.
21:53
Speaker 10: Explain why, well, Peter. The Constitution says that in a
22:00
Speaker 10: prosecution on indictment against an offense against the law of
22:05
Speaker 10: the Commonwealth, it must be heard before a jury. That
22:09
Speaker 10: is to say, it can't be by judge alone. The
22:13
Speaker 10: High Court has interpreted this this meaning that any jury
22:16
Speaker 10: must return a unanimous verdict. It only takes one person
22:22
Speaker 10: who does not join in a conviction for there to
22:25
Speaker 10: be a home jury.
22:28
Speaker 2: What about the risk given the media attention on his
22:34
Speaker 2: case and countless stories and almost many documentaries run particularly
22:39
Speaker 2: by the Nine Network, how do you ensure there is
22:42
Speaker 2: a fair trial.
22:43
Speaker 10: It's very hard to ensure that you have an untainted
22:47
Speaker 10: jury panel. Jurors are meant to disqualify themselves as they
22:51
Speaker 10: hold feelings about the subject matter, which would prevent them
22:55
Speaker 10: giving an unbiased view of the case. However, that doesn't
22:59
Speaker 10: always have and it'd be very hard for a jury
23:05
Speaker 10: to have everybody in it put out of their mind
23:09
Speaker 10: what they have seen and heard over the last few
23:13
Speaker 10: years about this case.
23:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it'll be key when they impanel a jury,
23:18
Speaker 2: and the defense obviously has an opportunity to knock out jurors.
23:23
Speaker 2: You know, given what we've seen the Propalastini in marches
23:26
Speaker 2: around the streets of Australia, some of the views, particularly
23:30
Speaker 2: of young people in this country, seem to me pretty UnAustralian.
23:33
Speaker 2: So choosing the jury will be critical in this case.
23:38
Speaker 10: Yes it will, But you can't knock out every jura.
23:43
Speaker 10: The fact of the matter is that there's a panel,
23:45
Speaker 10: and from the panel, jurors are selected by lot, and
23:49
Speaker 10: you have a small number of what it called peremptory challenges,
23:53
Speaker 10: where a defense counsel can, without giving a reason, challenge
23:58
Speaker 10: a particular dura. You can make further challenges for cause,
24:04
Speaker 10: provided you know something about the dura. But all you
24:07
Speaker 10: know about the dura when they walk into the jury
24:09
Speaker 10: box to be sworn is what you can see of
24:12
Speaker 10: them and the number that they've been called out by.
24:15
Speaker 10: You don't know their name.
24:18
Speaker 3: Wow, talk to me about that.
24:20
Speaker 2: The Afghan side of this evidentiary burdener. I've spoken about
24:26
Speaker 2: how difficult it will be ten to fifteen years old
24:29
Speaker 2: to get evidence out of Afghanistan. We know, of course
24:33
Speaker 2: it's back under terrorist Taliban control. What about concerns that
24:39
Speaker 2: have been raised in the media about whether the testimony
24:43
Speaker 2: provided in the Brereton Inquiry to the investigators was given
24:47
Speaker 2: by Afghan nationals with Taliban operatives in the room. Now,
24:51
Speaker 2: given our soldiers were fighting the Taliban, the risk of
24:56
Speaker 2: tainted evidence is surely high, you.
25:00
Speaker 10: Would think, so. Yes, Look, we don't know whether there
25:06
Speaker 10: are going to be any Afghan witnesses. I presume there
25:09
Speaker 10: will be, but that's a matter for the Crown as
25:12
Speaker 10: to who they call. It's unlikely I would think that
25:16
Speaker 10: any witnesses from Afghanistan will be in Australia giving evidence
25:20
Speaker 10: in a court room. They'll probably be giving evidence by
25:23
Speaker 10: avl and a court cannot impose its own penalty on
25:28
Speaker 10: such a witness. If they're court perjuring themselves. The other
25:32
Speaker 10: aspect of it is you don't know who the witness is.
25:36
Speaker 10: In practical terms, you don't know whether they're a Taliban sympathizer,
25:40
Speaker 10: whether there's a Taliban person standing behind the camera when
25:43
Speaker 10: they're on AVL. It'd be very hard for a jury
25:47
Speaker 10: to give weight to such evidence.
25:51
Speaker 2: AVL for people at home is already a visual link
25:54
Speaker 2: just quickly. Witnesses, will they be offered indemnity to tell
26:00
Speaker 2: to fy against Ben Robert Smith? And if so, how
26:02
Speaker 2: does that go down with juries in your experience?
26:06
Speaker 10: Again, Peter, I don't know what decisions the Crown will
26:09
Speaker 10: make as to whether indemnities will be offered. I would
26:14
Speaker 10: rather suspect that they will be. In that event, the
26:17
Speaker 10: jury has to be told that they're there pursue into
26:20
Speaker 10: an indemnity. And again that's a matter that a jury
26:24
Speaker 10: has to consider in deciding what weight to give to
26:27
Speaker 10: that evidence. And my experience has been that a witness
26:32
Speaker 10: appearing under an indemnity tends to be given far less
26:36
Speaker 10: weight by a jury panel than one who is giving
26:41
Speaker 10: his evidence freely.
26:44
Speaker 2: Well, you are an expert, Bruce Levit. Thank you very
26:46
Speaker 2: much for your time. It was good to speak to
26:48
Speaker 2: you about these issues this evening. All right, Just on
26:51
Speaker 2: this issue before we go to the break. Mister Hugh Pote,
26:55
Speaker 2: the father of Private Robert Pote, an Australian soldier who
26:58
Speaker 2: was killed in Afghanistan by a rogue Afghan soldier inside
27:03
Speaker 2: a Coalition patrol base, has asked why his son's killer
27:07
Speaker 2: is free yet Ben Robert Smith's, tonight remains behind bars.
27:11
Speaker 2: Hugh Poete has written and said this, They've spent ten
27:14
Speaker 2: years and hundreds of millions determined to find enough evidence
27:18
Speaker 2: to arrest Ben, but successive governments have taken no action
27:22
Speaker 2: at all to capture Heck Mattala and those who proudly
27:26
Speaker 2: confessed in the Afghan Supreme Court to murdering three Australian soldiers.
27:31
Speaker 2: My son was one of them. Now to you, Hugh,
27:35
Speaker 2: your wife Jenny, and Robert's sister Nicola, you are in
27:38
Speaker 2: my thoughts tonight because I know how difficult the whole
27:41
Speaker 2: Brereton process and this arrest has been for so many
27:46
Speaker 2: in our veteran community, and I think many people watching
27:49
Speaker 2: the program tonight would share your sentiment.
27:52
Speaker 3: About justice for your son.
27:54
Speaker 2: All Right, ark the break, Tony Abott will join me
27:57
Speaker 2: for his assessment on the precarious ceasefire in iranst arms,
28:00
Speaker 2: and I'll also ask him about Ben Roberts Smith. Welcome back,
28:09
Speaker 2: coming up the fire for a new South Wales farming
28:11
Speaker 2: community at serious risk of being railroaded by an energy
28:14
Speaker 2: company with monstrous towers that will rip apart the landscape.
28:19
Speaker 2: The first plenty to get through with My next guest
28:22
Speaker 2: joining with our former Prime Minister, Tony Abbott. Well, welcome
28:25
Speaker 2: to the program, Tony. I just interviewed a former Defense
28:29
Speaker 2: Force soldier or officer, obviously lawyer. I'm an expert on
28:34
Speaker 2: the Ben Robert Smith case. I want to start there
28:38
Speaker 2: if I can, because you put out a very pointed
28:41
Speaker 2: statement when he was charged with four counts of war
28:44
Speaker 2: crimes this week and he'll face life imprisonment if found guilty.
28:50
Speaker 2: You asked the question, if there was a transgression, why
28:56
Speaker 2: wasn't it picked up earlier?
28:58
Speaker 8: Well, I think that is the key question, Peter. We
29:02
Speaker 8: gave Ben Roberts Smith, awarded him the Victoria Cross, we
29:08
Speaker 8: put him up on a pedestal of valor, and now
29:13
Speaker 8: we are putting him in the stocks of dishonor. There
29:17
Speaker 8: must have been due diligence, surely, because he was also.
29:21
Speaker 3: A Middle of Gallantry recipient earlier.
29:23
Speaker 8: As well, and only one of the alleged crimes took
29:27
Speaker 8: place after the award of the Victoria Criss, as I
29:30
Speaker 8: understand it. So if he was such a good guy,
29:35
Speaker 8: then how can he be such a bad guy now?
29:40
Speaker 8: And there is something seriously awry with a system, and
29:44
Speaker 8: it a country which can't make up its mind about
29:50
Speaker 8: someone who it has given its highest military honor.
29:55
Speaker 2: What about the Brereton Report because it provided a blanket
29:59
Speaker 2: and unity to the officer class, So all the senior
30:04
Speaker 2: ranks had a blanket immunity. And if you didn't know better,
30:08
Speaker 2: explain this to people at home. They have the view,
30:12
Speaker 2: and I think pretty right view, that it seemed to
30:15
Speaker 2: just target the rank and file ordinary soldier.
30:20
Speaker 8: It does look like a double standard, Peter. Now, there's something,
30:24
Speaker 8: as I understand it, called the Yamashita rule, after the
30:28
Speaker 8: Japanese general commander who was executed as a war criminal
30:34
Speaker 8: in the late nineteen forties, not because he himself had
30:37
Speaker 8: done anything wrong, but because people under his command had
30:42
Speaker 8: done the wrong thing and he was held responsible for
30:45
Speaker 8: their actions. Now, if there has been these terrible crimes
30:50
Speaker 8: committed by junior soldiers. It's hard to see how the
30:56
Speaker 8: senior officers can be excused.
31:00
Speaker 2: And you and I met them in Afghanistan. Some of
31:04
Speaker 2: the commanding officers were there on the ground during deployments
31:09
Speaker 2: and then made their way up the defense treat of
31:12
Speaker 2: very senior ranks in Canberra.
31:15
Speaker 8: Again, I think this whole thing has been mishandled from
31:19
Speaker 8: the beginning. I think it should always it should always
31:23
Speaker 8: have been approached as a disciplinary issue rather than as
31:28
Speaker 8: if you're like a legal issue. Now we are where
31:33
Speaker 8: we are. It is a legal issue, but as your
31:38
Speaker 8: previous guest pointed out, there's a the presumption of innocence,
31:44
Speaker 8: there's b the whole question of justice delayed is justice denied?
31:48
Speaker 8: And then there are the gargantuan evidentiary difficulties of getting
31:53
Speaker 8: safe testimony out of a country like Afghanistan. And as
31:58
Speaker 8: we know from the defamation case, there is going to
32:01
Speaker 8: be a conflict of evidence from Australian soldiers or former
32:06
Speaker 8: Australian soldiers. Now, I think it's going to be very difficult,
32:11
Speaker 8: and I'm a non lawyer, but I think it's going
32:13
Speaker 8: to be very difficult to find a jury that will
32:17
Speaker 8: conclude that these alleged crimes are proven beyond reasonable doubt.
32:25
Speaker 3: And you know that's the case, aimous.
32:27
Speaker 8: And if that's the case, why are these charges being brought?
32:32
Speaker 2: What about the words I read out from the father
32:35
Speaker 2: of Army Private Robert Poete, his son was killed by
32:41
Speaker 2: a rogue Afghan soldier. We also now have countless cases
32:46
Speaker 2: where someone was perceived or seem to have done a
32:50
Speaker 2: crime one week, picked up the next week, not enough
32:53
Speaker 2: to hold them or deal with them in that second week,
32:55
Speaker 2: so they were caught and they were released. And NATO
32:58
Speaker 2: had this whole hatch and releasing going on where our
33:02
Speaker 2: soldiers put their lives literally on the line to bring
33:05
Speaker 2: people in and then they were told, yeah, don't worry,
33:07
Speaker 2: we don't want that bloke anymore, let him go.
33:11
Speaker 8: We could hold our soldiers could hold people for four days,
33:15
Speaker 8: and if it was not possible within four days to
33:20
Speaker 8: get very conclusive evidence DNA fingerprints, admissions, sworn statements, they
33:30
Speaker 8: had to be released. And there were many cases I'm advised,
33:34
Speaker 8: of people who were picked up as suspected terrorists and
33:42
Speaker 8: notwithstanding everything that was known about them, on the balance
33:46
Speaker 8: of probability, so to speak, because it was thought that
33:51
Speaker 8: there was nothing beyond reasonable doubt. They were released only
33:54
Speaker 8: to come and kill again. Interestingly, the Afghan Matula who
34:01
Speaker 8: was responsible for killing a private poete, he was eventually caught,
34:08
Speaker 8: he was convicted, He was initially sentenced to death, but
34:14
Speaker 8: then he was released, despite admitting the crime, despite saying
34:19
Speaker 8: how proud he was of killing Australian soldiers. He was
34:23
Speaker 8: released as part of negotiations with the Taliban. So you
34:26
Speaker 8: can absolutely understand why people think that there are grotesque
34:32
Speaker 8: double standards here and our people are being held to
34:35
Speaker 8: standards that no one else is being held to.
34:39
Speaker 2: I have to ask you about Iran because it's dominated
34:41
Speaker 2: the news today. We've got a ten point plan from
34:43
Speaker 2: the Iranians, a lot of pressure to include from Australia
34:48
Speaker 2: and some other allies for America to include Lebanon in
34:52
Speaker 2: the deal. They say Lebanon was never in Iran says
34:55
Speaker 2: they were. And here you have Australia in the Prime
34:57
Speaker 2: Minister and everybody else taking the word of the over
35:01
Speaker 2: the US, not just Trump but the US negotiators.
35:05
Speaker 3: It is a very precarious ceasepire.
35:08
Speaker 2: Right now, I'm in the camp where I think we
35:12
Speaker 2: should finish the job, but only if the rest of
35:14
Speaker 2: the world stands with the United States and put some
35:17
Speaker 2: weight in behind them, because they're actually fuel self sufficient.
35:22
Speaker 2: We're not yet, We've got no skin in the game.
35:26
Speaker 8: Any peace deal that leaves Iran charging a two million
35:31
Speaker 8: dollar toll on every ship going through the Straits would
35:34
Speaker 8: be a catastrophe and it would mean that our miners,
35:37
Speaker 8: farmers and truckers are facing forever absolutely extortionate prices for fuel.
35:43
Speaker 3: A levy to a terrorist organizing.
35:45
Speaker 8: Basically exactly, it would be a subsidy for terrorism. Now,
35:49
Speaker 8: the only safe way for this water end is for
35:55
Speaker 8: the Iranian war machine to be utterly destroyed. The job
35:58
Speaker 8: is largely but not completely done, and for there to
36:02
Speaker 8: be free passage through the Straits. Now, plainly that's not
36:07
Speaker 8: the case. Right now, it has to be the case,
36:10
Speaker 8: and frankly it is not too late even now for
36:14
Speaker 8: our government to make contact with the White House and
36:17
Speaker 8: say what can Australia do to help. That's what I
36:21
Speaker 8: think every previous Australian Prime minister would have done. I
36:25
Speaker 8: can't understand why we haven't picked up the phone to
36:28
Speaker 8: the White House and said, what can we do to help?
36:31
Speaker 8: There are many things that we could do to help,
36:33
Speaker 8: and frankly America deserves our help, needs our help if
36:39
Speaker 8: it is to ensure freedom of navigation in this vital
36:43
Speaker 8: global choke point.
36:45
Speaker 3: Just a quick one.
36:46
Speaker 2: I want to play a comment that Mat Canavan made,
36:49
Speaker 2: which I just think is extraordinary in light of our
36:52
Speaker 2: fuel crisis.
36:53
Speaker 3: Have a listen.
36:54
Speaker 6: The Labor Party federally did a deal with the Greens
36:57
Speaker 6: which made it impossible for the environ Minister to approve
37:01
Speaker 6: a liquid fuels project under the national interest test of
37:05
Speaker 6: our environmental laws. I mean, let's just take a while
37:09
Speaker 6: to consider what they did. There's always been the provision
37:12
Speaker 6: for the environment minister to say, look, this project is
37:15
Speaker 6: in our national interests, might be defense, might be liquid
37:17
Speaker 6: fuel security, that's in our national interest. We can exempt
37:20
Speaker 6: it from all this green tape and just get on
37:22
Speaker 6: with it. I mean, is there anything more important that
37:25
Speaker 6: we've discovered the last few months and liquid fuels to
37:27
Speaker 6: our national security?
37:30
Speaker 3: Surely that must be repealed.
37:33
Speaker 8: Look, the Albanesi government suffers from fossil fuel phobia. They're
37:38
Speaker 8: happy to use fossil fuels that come from Singapore, but
37:41
Speaker 8: they're not prepared to get fossil fuels out of the
37:43
Speaker 8: ground in Australia.
37:46
Speaker 14: It just shows the.
37:47
Speaker 8: Albanese government is utterly incapable of rising to the challenges
37:52
Speaker 8: we face.
37:53
Speaker 2: And we post and we face plenty of them. Tony Abbott,
37:56
Speaker 2: thank you all. Right after the break, Chrispin said yesterday
37:59
Speaker 2: show some respects. Well, I've got a farmer coming up.
38:02
Speaker 2: He feels pretty disrespected by that minister.
38:09
Speaker 3: Welcome back.
38:10
Speaker 14: Now.
38:10
Speaker 3: If you think the Hormuz.
38:11
Speaker 2: Strait makes things tough for Australia, just wait till China
38:15
Speaker 2: shuts down the Taiwan Strait.
38:17
Speaker 3: I'll get to that with my panel a little bit later.
38:20
Speaker 3: At first.
38:20
Speaker 2: If there's one story at the moment that lays bear
38:23
Speaker 2: the tension between regional Australia and the ridiculous decisions made
38:27
Speaker 2: by bureaucrats, it's unfolding right now in New South Wales,
38:31
Speaker 2: where farmers say they're being forced to carry the cost
38:34
Speaker 2: of a transmission corridor that they neither want or believe
38:38
Speaker 2: is necessary. At the center of the dispute as are
38:41
Speaker 2: proposed two hundred and seventy en kilometer project tied to
38:44
Speaker 2: the New England Renewable Energy Zone, A plan that's triggered
38:49
Speaker 2: fierce opposition across farming communities. And take a look at
38:53
Speaker 2: this sprawling vision from the heart of Walker, pristine views
38:57
Speaker 2: from a lake that is in the direct path of
39:00
Speaker 2: the proposed new transmission lines. Joining me now to discuss it.
39:04
Speaker 2: Welcome High Country Guardian Campaign or a generational young farmer,
39:09
Speaker 2: Nathaniel Brazil. Nathaniel, thank you for your time. That's your land,
39:14
Speaker 2: that's your farm. That's what we'll be ripped apart if
39:19
Speaker 2: these towers go ahead.
39:22
Speaker 5: Good a, Peter, Yeah, thanks very much for having me on,
39:26
Speaker 5: and also thank you for following our story. That's right,
39:29
Speaker 5: that imagery went straight across our land. So we're generational
39:34
Speaker 5: family farm. The proposed line at the moment is just
39:38
Speaker 5: heading straight across the middle of that lake. And when
39:41
Speaker 5: we originally heard about that, it was absolutely gut wrenching
39:45
Speaker 5: and some of the most disastrous information you can ever receive,
39:49
Speaker 5: you know. So we're a generational farmer. These towers coming
39:52
Speaker 5: over the top of us are going to affect us
39:54
Speaker 5: immensely in our ability to farm and survive as a
39:59
Speaker 5: family farm. Just like any small business, you need all
40:03
Speaker 5: the tools and you took it and whether that's intensification
40:08
Speaker 5: or growing your footprint. You know, we need to be
40:10
Speaker 5: able to use all those tools, and fundamentally, this transmission
40:14
Speaker 5: line is going to prohibit most of that.
40:16
Speaker 2: Yes, when I've spoken to people in the malley out
40:20
Speaker 2: from where I am, where I grew up, and they
40:23
Speaker 2: had transmission lines being debated up there, predominantly cropping, they
40:28
Speaker 2: said it just renders their land unusable given the size
40:31
Speaker 2: of booms and harvesters and things like that. I understand
40:35
Speaker 2: your cattle and also cropping. What's the impact for you
40:39
Speaker 2: You faced with the same challenges as other areas of Victoria.
40:43
Speaker 5: Are Yeah, absolutely, we are definitely faced. Like we're quite intensive.
40:48
Speaker 5: We want to run some of the highest stocking rates
40:50
Speaker 5: in the state, in the nation. So it's not one tower,
40:54
Speaker 5: one paddic, it's plenty of patis. With one tower, it
41:00
Speaker 5: inhibits our ability to put fertilizer out, inhibits our ability
41:04
Speaker 5: to move stock, to rotate stock as we wish, and
41:07
Speaker 5: like I said, also, it's going to reduce our asset base,
41:09
Speaker 5: which means that you know, that's a very important component
41:12
Speaker 5: to farming, to growing your businesses, surviving, and it's going
41:15
Speaker 5: to reduce that.
41:17
Speaker 2: What I find extraordinary is the independent analysis. It says
41:21
Speaker 2: this project, rather than making power more affordable, could actually
41:26
Speaker 2: drive up power costs, make it higher for household How
41:30
Speaker 2: does that work? And if that's the case, how on
41:33
Speaker 2: earth can the government justify this?
41:36
Speaker 8: Yeah?
41:36
Speaker 5: So do some studies out recently that say that transmission
41:40
Speaker 5: infrastructure is going to raise power bills by six hundred
41:43
Speaker 5: dollars each year to the consumers. So the thing to
41:47
Speaker 5: remember with transmission lines is that they are built on
41:50
Speaker 5: borrowed money. So effectively there is a mortgage against the
41:53
Speaker 5: transmission lines and that has to be paid off over
41:56
Speaker 5: a period of time, so that price becomes fixed. It
41:59
Speaker 5: doesn't fluctuate like your powers supply and demand does. It's
42:04
Speaker 5: a fixed price which is going to be on your
42:06
Speaker 5: bill every year for the lifetime of that mortgage. The
42:10
Speaker 5: crazy thing is they don't need to justify it. There
42:13
Speaker 5: is alternatives. The AMO has revised down energy in the
42:19
Speaker 5: new ingod reds and other ress immensely. They don't need
42:22
Speaker 5: to be building these monstroses for big towers. We've suggested alternatives,
42:29
Speaker 5: especially ones that hit more on their economical pillars, cheaper
42:33
Speaker 5: to build. They'd be increasing the value of their current assets,
42:39
Speaker 5: renewing assets that are well beyond their use by date.
42:42
Speaker 5: There's plenty of things that they can do. They are
42:45
Speaker 5: just absolutely refusing to look into it.
42:49
Speaker 3: Well, there's two issues there.
42:50
Speaker 2: I mean, a they think they won't get any sort
42:52
Speaker 2: of resistance from farmers, that you won't ban together and
42:55
Speaker 2: you won't fight, and you won't get the support of
42:57
Speaker 2: the cities.
42:58
Speaker 3: That's what they think.
42:59
Speaker 2: And also alive to the fact a lot of these
43:02
Speaker 2: are foreign companies and there's a huge amount of subsidies
43:07
Speaker 2: available to them to make this a money making venture.
43:10
Speaker 2: It's not about the environment. Hey, I know that you're
43:13
Speaker 2: trying to get a petition up in the New South
43:14
Speaker 2: Wales Parliament. To do that, you need twenty thousand signatures.
43:19
Speaker 2: I want to help you out. You're about halfway there.
43:22
Speaker 2: Up there on the screen and I'll also put it
43:24
Speaker 2: online at Sky News is a QR code. So Nathaniel,
43:28
Speaker 2: I want to say we're all behind you, certainly on
43:30
Speaker 2: my program, all the very best.
43:32
Speaker 3: Stay in touch with me.
43:33
Speaker 2: We'll see if we can't get you to those twenty
43:35
Speaker 2: signatures in the next couple of days. Thank you for
43:37
Speaker 2: your time. Isn't that disgusting? This is what's happening right
43:41
Speaker 2: around the country. He is just one example. Please please
43:45
Speaker 2: please get onto that petition. All right, after the break,
43:47
Speaker 2: we'll talk about the Middle East again. We'll also talk
43:50
Speaker 2: about a whole lot more the international puttle's coming up.
43:57
Speaker 2: Welcome back now to the fragile ceasefire in the Middle Eas,
44:00
Speaker 2: escalating calls for it to be expanded to include Lebanon.
44:04
Speaker 3: But there's politics there. I'll get to that with my panel.
44:07
Speaker 2: International panel now Scanese contributed Kosher Gata and former labor
44:11
Speaker 2: in p Michael Danby all this tool.
44:13
Speaker 3: Kosher about how fragility is.
44:16
Speaker 2: I spoke a little bit before to Tony Yabbott who said,
44:19
Speaker 2: if we end up with neutralizing most of their nuclear
44:23
Speaker 2: capacity but not getting our hands on this enriched uranium,
44:27
Speaker 2: and we're in a situation where to pass through the
44:30
Speaker 2: straight of hor moves Iran is basically collecting a toll.
44:35
Speaker 2: We're all going to end up funding terrorism. That can't
44:38
Speaker 2: be where we leave things.
44:39
Speaker 14: That feels like we're worse than where we were when
44:42
Speaker 14: this whole thing started. Right, If it's essentially the same picture,
44:45
Speaker 14: but they're getting a tool of a dollar per barrel,
44:48
Speaker 14: I think the issue is that there were never the
44:50
Speaker 14: goals of the war were never fully defined, and so
44:53
Speaker 14: we don't know what finishing the job necessarily looks like.
44:55
Speaker 14: If it is to stop any sort of nuclear ambition,
44:58
Speaker 14: including Enrichmond, that feels from where I'm sitting tonight, unlikely.
45:03
Speaker 14: I really think that's difficult because that's going to involve
45:04
Speaker 14: troops on the ground.
45:05
Speaker 3: We know the politics of it. It's not popular. We're
45:07
Speaker 3: inching up to the midterm.
45:09
Speaker 14: If it is figuring out how to get the Street
45:11
Speaker 14: of Horn moves back open without that tool, hopefully, hopefully
45:14
Speaker 14: that's something that's more achievable, and we do see that
45:16
Speaker 14: in the near term. If it's regime change, I have
45:18
Speaker 14: to say that's probably an even bigger and loftier goal
45:20
Speaker 14: that we don't really see any signs of the appetite
45:23
Speaker 14: back home to go the extra ten thousand miles to
45:26
Speaker 14: give it.
45:26
Speaker 3: Why would they when they're in it alone. Wait, this
45:28
Speaker 3: is the problem.
45:29
Speaker 2: If it was a world cause, if other nations were joining,
45:32
Speaker 2: it's a story.
45:33
Speaker 3: It's a different story.
45:34
Speaker 2: And we know, Michael, we're told by sort of the
45:37
Speaker 2: underground media in Iran the people want this mob gone.
45:41
Speaker 2: But they also know and they have seen it. If
45:43
Speaker 2: they go out into the streets, they'll be shot. If
45:46
Speaker 2: there's an allegation against them that they're somehow not for
45:49
Speaker 2: the government. They're literally a public execution. That's what ends
45:54
Speaker 2: up happening to them. So you can understand why the
45:56
Speaker 2: people are loath to go out there in public campaign.
46:00
Speaker 1: Eighty percent of Iranians in Iran and certainly all of
46:02
Speaker 1: the Iranian diaspora. I've spoken to them here five thousand
46:05
Speaker 1: people singing Advance Australia Fair on the steps of State
46:09
Speaker 1: Parliament House want this clerico fascist regime ended. But I
46:14
Speaker 1: have no faith. I'm sorry to say that Peter in
46:16
Speaker 1: Vice President Vance straight from his disgraceful visit. If I
46:21
Speaker 1: can say that to Hungary five days before an election
46:24
Speaker 1: where the other bloke, the opposition leader, looks like he's
46:26
Speaker 1: going to win. But nonetheless, Vance and the team will
46:31
Speaker 1: be there in Pakistan and they should do their best
46:34
Speaker 1: to advance American policy and get this regime to open
46:39
Speaker 1: the straits of humors. Stick by the ceasefire and slight
46:44
Speaker 1: disagreement with Kosher. The nuclear stuff is entombed. I have
46:49
Speaker 1: great faith in that. At the moment, I think it
46:51
Speaker 1: should be released eventually to the International Atomic Energy Agency.
46:55
Speaker 1: That I think satisfy the whole world and.
47:00
Speaker 3: Have to stop.
47:00
Speaker 1: I think they're greatly degraded. General Kin and the whole
47:04
Speaker 1: team have really worked that to a great effect.
47:08
Speaker 2: Just a quick comment from you, the Prime minister name
47:11
Speaker 2: checking Lebanon today, please Albanezer could not find Lebanon on
47:15
Speaker 2: a map, right. We all know who's running Lebanon terror organization, Hesbela.
47:21
Speaker 2: This is about Lebanese votes in western Sydney and parts
47:26
Speaker 2: of Melbourne that Labour need to survive.
47:29
Speaker 1: He and Wong have been braying since October seven, twenty
47:33
Speaker 1: twenty three for de escalation restraint. If the Israelis had
47:37
Speaker 1: listened to them, they would probably have been overwhelmed by
47:41
Speaker 1: all of those different elements, including Hesbela, and Advance, to
47:45
Speaker 1: his credit, stood on the tarmac after he left Hungary
47:49
Speaker 1: saying that there shouldn't be any further attacks by Hesbela
47:55
Speaker 1: and that the Israelis were not part of the ceasefire
47:58
Speaker 1: in that part of the world. Day like the Americans
48:00
Speaker 1: had to stop in Iran. They come up absolutely, that's
48:05
Speaker 1: what it's all about. Confusing living on an hisbel are
48:08
Speaker 1: in particular.
48:09
Speaker 2: Talk to me about the Straits of Taiwan. If we
48:14
Speaker 2: think it's bad now, it would be nothing like we
48:17
Speaker 2: would say if things were on by China.
48:19
Speaker 14: It would be seismic. I think you know what's happening
48:21
Speaker 14: with horror mus I would say that even two months ago, people,
48:24
Speaker 14: the average person didn't know what a strait was to
48:26
Speaker 14: be frank, and now we know that these choke points
48:28
Speaker 14: exist in the world and they can bring world powers
48:31
Speaker 14: to their knees, even from regimes that are not that
48:33
Speaker 14: fundamentally powerful like you're on.
48:35
Speaker 9: China.
48:35
Speaker 14: Of course, is and Taiwan controls the majority of China
48:39
Speaker 14: controls the majority of manufacturing. Taiwan controls ninety percent of
48:42
Speaker 14: semiconductors which are going in the computer chips that power
48:45
Speaker 14: every single thing in modern life. They have a lot
48:47
Speaker 14: of a lot of leverage if that were to happen.
48:49
Speaker 14: And especially for Australia, a big portion thirty percent plus
48:52
Speaker 14: of imports of manufacturing come from China. You're in this
48:55
Speaker 14: precarious position of having to balance and walk that tightrope
48:58
Speaker 14: between the relationship with the US and China, which would
49:00
Speaker 14: potentially turn an adversarial So it's.
49:02
Speaker 13: A big deal.
49:03
Speaker 14: The only solace is that China so far has not
49:06
Speaker 14: shown evidence that it is likely to do that kind
49:09
Speaker 14: of thing, though watching closely, and game.
49:14
Speaker 1: Tech has been fundamentally defeated by American military tech. And
49:17
Speaker 1: by the way, you're right about the Straits of Whom Was?
49:19
Speaker 1: I saw lots of young Americans interviewed who thought it
49:21
Speaker 1: was being very unfair to the gays of home was.
49:25
Speaker 3: You cannot make this stuff up. All right, I'll over there,
49:28
Speaker 3: Thank you both. All right, that's even me.
49:30
Speaker 2: Have a lovely weekend. I'm heading up to Farah. I'll
49:32
Speaker 2: report that next week. See you on Monday.
49:35
Speaker 3: Here's Andrew