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Trump Weighs 10% Government Stake in Intel as Softbank Buys In · Bloomberg Intelligence

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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
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  Speaker 2: Well, a few headlines for Intel. So, for one, the
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  Speaker 2: Trump administration reportedly weighing a ten percent government stake in
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  Speaker 2: Intel and then SoftBank buying in. So let's go to
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  Speaker 2: someone who knows more about this. That would be Dan
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  Speaker 2: Ive's globalhead of Technology research this morning, joining us from Westfield,
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  Speaker 2: New Jersey, where they do have some good restaurants and shopping.
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  Speaker 2: Might I add there, Dan, thanks for joining us so
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  Speaker 2: the news this could see the US become the company's
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  Speaker 2: largest shareholder. I mean, what does that mean for Intel?
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  Speaker 2: But also for the future. Are we going to be
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  Speaker 2: seeing more.
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  Speaker 3: Of this.
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  Speaker 4: Intel? You know, because everyone knows backward was against the wall.
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  Speaker 5: I mean, look, I think ultimately, if this didn't happen,
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  Speaker 5: strategic breakup was basically a done deal, and I think
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  Speaker 5: US government recognized and it's not national security, but like
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  Speaker 5: they needed to revive Intel clearly un orthodox in terms
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  Speaker 5: of the structure. Look for Intel, I mean, it's a
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  Speaker 5: little Cinderella's story at least that's happening here based on
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  Speaker 5: a lot of dark days I've seen the last few years.
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  Speaker 3: At least you may not be aware, but the preseason
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  Speaker 3: rankings for college football off come ount and Penn State
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  Speaker 3: is number two, and that's the highest I can remember. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: And I've been following these dudes for a long time,
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  Speaker 3: since I was a kid. Hey, Dan, how do investors
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  Speaker 3: feel about the US government taking a direct equity investment
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  Speaker 3: in a company?
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  Speaker 6: What have you heard from some of Intel's shareholders?
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  Speaker 4: Look, I mean, obviously it's a head Scratcherie.
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  Speaker 5: If you're an Intel shareholder, you're popping the champagne, right,
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  Speaker 5: I mean, because this is something came out of left field,
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  Speaker 5: and obviously the soft bank as well. But look, it
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  Speaker 5: does it crosses into a gray zone, right, I mean
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  Speaker 5: a sort of line the sand, Like Lisa was saying,
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  Speaker 5: does it end here? Is there more like this? But
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  Speaker 5: I think that's the issue is that like his government
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  Speaker 5: gets more into especially when it comes to chips in AI,
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  Speaker 5: and there's a lot of unint in the consequences, and
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  Speaker 5: I think that's some of the.
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  Speaker 2: Worry and then we have soft bank buy in. So
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  Speaker 2: I guess the thinking mind is is there's a potential
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  Speaker 2: for a turnaround at Intel. I mean, do you see that?
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  Speaker 5: I mean, look, I think there's a better chance to
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  Speaker 5: me playing Bethpage Ryder Cup in September.
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  Speaker 4: Than the turnaround Intel.
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  Speaker 5: Now again, like I'm not saying like you definitely have
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  Speaker 5: clearly like they're a lot better today than.
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  Speaker 4: They were twenty four hours ago. But look, this is
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  Speaker 4: an ever psychophill climb.
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  Speaker 5: I mean Intel has run like motor vehicles and that's
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  Speaker 5: a big problem.
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  Speaker 3: Secretary Letnic was on another network today saying that we
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  Speaker 3: need to bring more chip manufacturing back to the US.
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  Speaker 3: That's been a theme of President Trump as well. How
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  Speaker 3: do you think about it? How is how should the
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  Speaker 3: US proceed here?
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  Speaker 6: Do you think?
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  Speaker 5: Look, I mean they're trying to weigh the groundwork, and
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  Speaker 5: obviously you've seen investments, But the reality is it's going
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  Speaker 5: to be really more around AI and it's going to
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  Speaker 5: be about a lot more like what i'll call next technologies.
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  Speaker 5: The reality is, as I've said, to produce chips in
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  Speaker 5: the US and the supply chain moving on from Asia
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  Speaker 5: to the US, I've used, it's almost an impossibility and
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  Speaker 5: relative to cost structure, taking four to five years to
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  Speaker 5: build a factory, you know, and then just the reality
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  Speaker 5: of the IP that's really based in Asia. So well,
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  Speaker 5: they have great talking points and they're moving the needle,
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  Speaker 5: but the reality is, like I've said, like that is that's.
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  Speaker 4: Gonna be.
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  Speaker 5: I'll call it four to five years before you see
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  Speaker 5: any sort of real movement there.
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  Speaker 2: Hey, Dan, I gotta take you back to that that
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  Speaker 2: ten stake. Can you explain how exactly it's gonna be funded?
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  Speaker 4: Look, that's good.
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  Speaker 5: I mean you could go back to maybe some of
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  Speaker 5: those like Fanny Fredday, like you know, they is like
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  Speaker 5: like Odds structures government almost like a you know, in
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  Speaker 5: terms of how they're going to actually get paid back,
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  Speaker 5: what the ownership is that equity?
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  Speaker 4: Look, and I think the devil's in the details right
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  Speaker 4: in terms of you know, do you have a board seat?
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  Speaker 4: Are your border observer? I mean, I think that's.
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  Speaker 5: Those are some of the sort of questions that need
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  Speaker 5: to get asked. But it all comes down to, like
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  Speaker 5: I think it delays a breakup, but I still believe
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  Speaker 5: the end result.
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  Speaker 4: For Intel is gonna be a strategic breakup.
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  Speaker 3: So, Dan, what's the next big thing that we're gonna
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  Speaker 3: be talking to you out in the coming weeks.
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  Speaker 6: Do you think is it an earnings release? Is it
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  Speaker 6: a is it a new product launch? What should we
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  Speaker 6: be paying attention to in your world of technology?
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  Speaker 5: I think we'll be talking next Thursday morning, you know,
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  Speaker 5: I mean, like, you know, obviously godfather of AI, Jensen
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  Speaker 5: NVIDI like when they were poor.
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  Speaker 4: Look, I think to me, you know, I'm believed Toby
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  Speaker 4: on the show.
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  Speaker 5: You know, obviously the last few weeks, like you look
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  Speaker 5: at earning season, there's a validation movement for tech, validation
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  Speaker 5: for AI and and I think now come down to
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: within video or reporting like okay, like what like what
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: is demanded spy?
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: We think demand spies ten to twelve to one.
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: And I think that is going to be the next
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  Speaker 5: data point that ultimately I think puts fuel in this rally.
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: I believe tech stocks rally hard into year end despite
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: some you know, whether it's fed geopolitical or other sort
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  Speaker 5: of headline risk or news.
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  Speaker 2: Heyden can can Intel catch up to let's say Taiwan
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  Speaker 2: semiconductor manufacturing, contract, chip making and chip design? You know,
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  Speaker 2: they miss out in this boom and spending in artificial inhealgance.
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  Speaker 5: I mean it's like me playing going to Rocker Park
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  Speaker 5: and playing in a pickup game of the NBA player.
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  Speaker 5: It's just not Look, they've missed, they've missed the window.
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  Speaker 4: I'm not saying like you can have.
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  Speaker 5: Some small victories, but I mean that's the shame of
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: the thing, Like they've missed it. Now, Look, I can't
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: you have a big install base. You could have some
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: wins here and there. But you look where a TSMC,
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: You look in the nvidio, you look what broad comes down.
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  Speaker 5: You look at obviously what lesas sou and AMD is done.
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  Speaker 5: I think that's part of the problem with Intel and
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  Speaker 5: they look, I mean US government, soft bank, others will
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  Speaker 5: get involved, but they have to stop running it like
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  Speaker 5: like motor vehicle Dan.
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  Speaker 6: All right, let's get to the heart of the matter.
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: Here.
• 6:50
  Speaker 6: Is Penn State overrated at number two?
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: No?
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: I mean, like I believe, not just number two. I
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: think like they'll be the number one team in the country.
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: I think this is our year twenty twenty five and
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: Michigan Penn State this year. You know, you look at
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: Ohio State. I think big Ted's going to dominate Texas.
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: Obviously great teams, but this is the year we are
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: I think we win the Natty.
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  Speaker 6: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
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  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
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  Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Coarclay and Android
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  Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
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  Speaker 6: Home Depot we're going to go there.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so it looks like consumers they are staying away
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  Speaker 2: from those big purchases. But we want to learn more
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  Speaker 2: about this, dig deeper into it. Let's bring in Drew Redding.
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  Speaker 2: He's Bloomberg Intelligence US home building analysts joining us from Princeton. Drew,
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  Speaker 2: thanks for joining us. How much is that a reflection
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  Speaker 2: of interest rates and inflation what we heard from from
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  Speaker 2: home Depot.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, so it was actually a pretty much inline quarter
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  Speaker 7: for home Depot today, comps up about one, a little
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  Speaker 7: shy consensus, but if you back out some of the
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  Speaker 7: four x impact, it was pretty much in line. Now,
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  Speaker 7: of course, growth isn't as strong as you would like
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  Speaker 7: to see, and a lot of that, as you mentioned,
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  Speaker 7: has to do with where rates are, both rates on
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  Speaker 7: home equity loans and mortgage rates. You have to remember
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  Speaker 7: housing turnover is at the lowest level since the financial crisis.
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  Speaker 7: And what we've heard consistently from home Depot over the
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  Speaker 7: last several quarters is that consumers are pulling back on
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  Speaker 7: big ticket discretionary categories. So think of things like kitchen
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  Speaker 7: and bathroom models are flooring, and the reason is because
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  Speaker 7: these tend to be financed with that and with rates
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  Speaker 7: where they are, and consumers with the expectation that rates
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  Speaker 7: are going to pull back, they're taking away and see
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  Speaker 7: approach and deciding to opt for those smaller ticket projects instead.
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  Speaker 6: Drew.
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  Speaker 3: What what does home depots say about TERRF risk for them?
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  Speaker 6: How did they quantify for the street?
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, good question obviously on you know of mind for
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  Speaker 7: a lot of investors. So Home Depot has done well
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  Speaker 7: to diversify that are sourcing over the last several years.
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  Speaker 7: They get about fifty percent of their products from the US,
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  Speaker 7: so they are in pretty good shape from that regard.
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  Speaker 7: We would estimate, you know, products coming from China somewhere
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  Speaker 7: around fifteen to twenty percent. And there's a couple of
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  Speaker 7: ways that they're going to manage this one. Given the
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  Speaker 7: scale that they have, they're able to push back against suppliers.
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  Speaker 7: The second. They continue to diversify their supply chain. On
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  Speaker 7: their last quarter call, they mentioned that no single country
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  Speaker 7: outside of the US will be more than ten percent
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  Speaker 7: of sourcing. And then lastly, I think we're going to
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  Speaker 7: start to see some selective price increases coming through in
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  Speaker 7: the next several quarters. Now they've done a little bit
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  Speaker 7: of pre buy on the inventory side to make sure
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  Speaker 7: that they had some of that lower cost product on
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  Speaker 7: the shelves for consumers. But I think, you know, as
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  Speaker 7: we get to the end of this year and into
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  Speaker 7: next year, you're going to start to see a little
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  Speaker 7: bit of pricing. Now, we wouldn't expect it to be
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  Speaker 7: to be widespread or significant. Remember, Home Depot sales about
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  Speaker 7: thirty to forty thousand products on their shelves, so they
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  Speaker 7: tend to take a portfolio approach and manage pricing really
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  Speaker 7: across the entire project, rather than raising prices across the board.
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  Speaker 2: Sure, so are you telling me my next home Depot
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  Speaker 2: run is going to be more expensive? It's going to
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  Speaker 2: cost me more, Drew. I have painting, I have a
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  Speaker 2: deck to build, I have things to do. I mean
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  Speaker 2: you're saying this could take effect pretty soon.
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  Speaker 7: Well, maybe not your next trip, Okay, the next couple.
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  Speaker 7: Maybe looking more towards the end of this year or
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  Speaker 7: into next year, we would expect to see prices up marginally.
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  Speaker 2: So I need to rush now. Well, if consumers are
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  Speaker 2: putting off those big projects, what are they focusing on?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, is it the smaller ones or are they
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  Speaker 2: just canceling projects altogether?
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, it tends to be more maintenance repair oriented, you know,
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  Speaker 7: so there's projects around the house where things break and
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  Speaker 7: you have to fix them immediately, or replacement products for
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  Speaker 7: appliances and things of that nature. And again, what we're
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  Speaker 7: not seeing is is the big ticket discretionary of things
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  Speaker 7: like like kitchen and baths that require financing.
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  Speaker 3: What is going on with the mortgage market here, Drew?
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  Speaker 3: What do your companies say, What do they expect mortgage
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  Speaker 3: rates to do here? Because we do have a FED
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  Speaker 3: that presumably is going to start cutting rates.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, so mortgage rates are have come down over the
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  Speaker 7: last couple of months. We're in the six and a
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  Speaker 7: half percent range. So really the move in mortgage rates
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  Speaker 7: has already kind of front run the expectations for what
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  Speaker 7: the Fed's going to do, so I wouldn't expect to
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  Speaker 7: see a whole lot of reaction on the mortgage rate
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  Speaker 7: side from an upcoming FED cut. And not to mention,
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  Speaker 7: remember the last time the FED cut rates, we saw
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  Speaker 7: an increase in mortgage rates. So I think what we
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  Speaker 7: really need to see. I mean, sure it would be
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  Speaker 7: great if we could get rates into the high five
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  Speaker 7: or low six percent range, but you know, as we've
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  Speaker 7: discussed before, what you really need to see is rates
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  Speaker 7: remain consistent and stable, and that's just something that we
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  Speaker 7: haven't had. You know, homeowners, when they're out shopping for
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  Speaker 7: a home, they want to be able to get a
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  Speaker 7: good grasp of what they're going to be spending, and
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  Speaker 7: with all the volatility we've seen in rates over the
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  Speaker 7: last couple of years, that's become increasingly challenging. Now on
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  Speaker 7: the home building side, we continue to see the builders
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  Speaker 7: increase their use of incentives, and primarily that's for mortgage
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  Speaker 7: rate buydown, so they're getting their buyers somewhere around one
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  Speaker 7: hundred basis points lower than the headline rate. Of course,
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  Speaker 7: as the demand environment continues to remain weak, we're seeing
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  Speaker 7: an increased use of that, and that's what we expect
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  Speaker 7: through the second half. So from the builder's perspective, they're
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  Speaker 7: getting their buyers, you know, better monthly payments than you're
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  Speaker 7: seeing at the headline rate.
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  Speaker 2: Heydrew before you go. Low's reports this week too, I
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  Speaker 2: believe it's tomorrow. Do you expect to hear a similar
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  Speaker 2: story from them?
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, pretty much. I mean, the one difference will be
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  Speaker 7: that Low's has a greater exposure to do it yourself customer,
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  Speaker 7: and as we know, over the last couple of years,
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  Speaker 7: they've really been impacted to a greater degree than the
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  Speaker 7: professional customer, you know, due to concerns over the economy
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  Speaker 7: or the cumulative impact of inflation. So we do think
• 13:02
  Speaker 7: that on a relative basis that exposure will weigh on them.
• 13:06
  Speaker 7: But we do think that they're going to benefit a
• 13:07
  Speaker 7: little bit more from some from the recent hurricane activity,
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  Speaker 7: also from strong seasonal trends. So by and large, we
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  Speaker 7: think it's going to be pretty much the same stories.
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  Speaker 7: That trends are starting to improve, but it's still that
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  Speaker 7: big ticket discretionary piece that remains weak.
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  Speaker 5: Jre.
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  Speaker 3: How about on the existing home market, how's that market
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  Speaker 3: doing and are the regional differences these days.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, the existing home market is pretty much frozen.
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  Speaker 7: We've been bumping along that four million annualized run rate
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: for a couple of years now, and if you think
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: of what normalized is somewhere around five million. Now, we're
• 13:42
  Speaker 7: twenty twenty five percent below what we would normally be doing.
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  Speaker 7: You know, part of the reason has been the lack
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  Speaker 7: of inventory, but we're seeing more inventory come home to
• 13:51
  Speaker 7: the market. So what we expect is going to happen
• 13:54
  Speaker 7: is that you'll start to see some volume improvements off
• 13:57
  Speaker 7: of a low base, but we think that that's going
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  Speaker 7: to come at the expensive pricing. We've seen home prices
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  Speaker 7: start to moderate. They're still rising at the national level,
• 14:05
  Speaker 7: but we think you start to see the increases lesson
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  Speaker 7: and in some of the markets around the country. To
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  Speaker 7: your point, if you look at, you know, markets in Florida, Texas,
• 14:13
  Speaker 7: some in the Southwest, we're already seeing home prices come
• 14:17
  Speaker 7: down on a year over year basis. So it's kind
• 14:19
  Speaker 7: of a rolling scenario where different markets are seeing minor
• 14:22
  Speaker 7: corrections at different times, and that's kind of how we
• 14:25
  Speaker 7: expect it to play out going forward.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: Stay with us more from Bloomberg Intelligence coming up after this.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, Coarclay and Android
• 14:40
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• 14:43
  Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: All right, let's get into the medtech space. Here's a
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: company I know very well in the famed Chase Manhattan
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: credit training program, which is trained half of Wall Street
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: over the years. The final project is like you get
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: a week to do a big credit reach search report.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: My credit research report was on med Tronic. I know
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: all about this stuff. Anyway, they're in the news here today,
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: Elliott Investment Management, the activists, they took a stake in
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: this company and they wanted some change and I think
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: they got something.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: Here.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Matt Hendrickson, senior tech analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence joints us.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: Here Matt brings up to data what's happening at Metronic? Uh?
• 15:19
  Speaker 8: Yeah, So with the Elliott Management news, they reported that
• 15:23
  Speaker 8: they have a significant stake in the stock and they're
• 15:26
  Speaker 8: going to plan to bring on two new border directors.
• 15:31
  Speaker 8: These are previous med tech CEOs from back in history.
• 15:38
  Speaker 8: And basically they're looking to revitalize growth and capture efficiencies too.
• 15:43
  Speaker 8: As they quoted in the earnings call built oxygen for
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  Speaker 8: future growth. And so one of the things we saw
• 15:51
  Speaker 8: in the quarter in the earnings today, there were some
• 15:55
  Speaker 8: areas that had strong growth, strong momentum, but in their
• 15:58
  Speaker 8: diversified portfolio, there are other areas that kind of, let's say,
• 16:02
  Speaker 8: needed some tweaking.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: But when it comes to this the board, who are
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: some of the additions that are that are coming in
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: because of a lad and has Elliott, the schools.
• 16:12
  Speaker 8: The size of the state as I see now, I
• 16:15
  Speaker 8: have not seen an actual size of what the steake is.
• 16:20
  Speaker 8: Some of these the board directors, they were former CEOs
• 16:24
  Speaker 8: at den Supply so some medtech companies. They were also
• 16:29
  Speaker 8: previously at Becton Dickinson other ones. They are able to
• 16:33
  Speaker 8: come in with more of an operational background and so
• 16:36
  Speaker 8: being able to drive kind of that efficiency, to be
• 16:39
  Speaker 8: able to create the same means to be able to
• 16:41
  Speaker 8: invest into their R and D programs.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: Right for the folks in front of the terminal, the
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: tickers M D T, then you type in the A
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: n R function to get the analyst rating. Street doesn't
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: know what to do with this stock? Seventeen buy, sixteen
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: holds in one sell. What's the what's the confusion out
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: there about this?
• 16:57
  Speaker 8: Name the US?
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: Everybody he needs medicals.
• 17:00
  Speaker 8: Everyone needs medical devices. Metronic has invested a lot of
• 17:04
  Speaker 8: money into these home run type products. Pulse field ablation,
• 17:09
  Speaker 8: renal deinnervation, all these products are trying to disrupt a
• 17:13
  Speaker 8: current market, either if it's atual fibrillation, hypertension, if you
• 17:18
  Speaker 8: get if you hit a home run like you're doing
• 17:20
  Speaker 8: with pulse field ablation, it is going to drive us
• 17:22
  Speaker 8: what pulse field ablation, it's basically a way to ablate
• 17:27
  Speaker 8: an area that's being affected by atrol fibrillation without using
• 17:30
  Speaker 8: heat or without freezing, so that prevents kind of the
• 17:33
  Speaker 8: damage to the tissue. If you hit home runs like that,
• 17:37
  Speaker 8: you're going to have key growth drivers. Other products like
• 17:39
  Speaker 8: renal de innervation is taking longer for that growth to develop.
• 17:43
  Speaker 8: So analysts, including myself, see all these products in the
• 17:47
  Speaker 8: pipeline get very excited about the potential for that growth
• 17:51
  Speaker 8: to accelerate from let's say the four to five percent
• 17:54
  Speaker 8: they're currently at to six percent, and then we're just
• 17:58
  Speaker 8: still waiting for that execution of those commercialization of the
• 18:01
  Speaker 8: products to get to that higher growth. Some analysts, as
• 18:05
  Speaker 8: you've see in the an R, they are more bullish
• 18:08
  Speaker 8: on when that will come up. Others are starting to say,
• 18:11
  Speaker 8: wait a minute, we've seen this story before and so
• 18:13
  Speaker 8: they are waiting. It's a wait and see story for
• 18:16
  Speaker 8: those analysts.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: I noticed when we talk with tariffs, they scaled back
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: the impact of tariff, so they lifted their full year guidance.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Are you seeing that more from other companies in this space?
• 18:26
  Speaker 8: Yes, I would say the majority of the companies that
• 18:29
  Speaker 8: have reported so far. Metronic always reports because their July
• 18:33
  Speaker 8: fiscal quarter end. All the companies that reported their June
• 18:36
  Speaker 8: fiscal end had a similar thing where they cut it
• 18:38
  Speaker 8: by roughly half of what they had predicted in the
• 18:41
  Speaker 8: first quarter.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: This company is based in Dublin, as in Ireland's just
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: the tax scam.
• 18:48
  Speaker 8: I will not call it a tax scam, but their
• 18:51
  Speaker 8: main headquarters is in Minneapolis. And when they acquired Coavidian
• 18:55
  Speaker 8: and they worked through that integration process that cond.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Call scam because back and Pain where worked on those
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Dublin docks deals back in the eighties.
• 19:02
  Speaker 6: That's when they first.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Changed the laws so to bring services and manufacturing to
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Ireland and we did all the fancy financing associated that,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: and you know what it worked.
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: Go to Dublin. Now, this place is bustling with corporate stuff.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: It's like one of the great European cities in terms
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: of just for your industry, healthcare, technology, Dublin dots No.
• 19:22
  Speaker 8: No, we have a lot of other A lot of
• 19:24
  Speaker 8: other companies are building out plants there. I mean, I
• 19:27
  Speaker 8: know Dexcom has their CGM factory out in Ireland and
• 19:30
  Speaker 8: all those things. So yeah, it's definitely an up and
• 19:32
  Speaker 8: coming location for this.
• 19:34
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