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What I've Learnt - Bruce Keebaugh · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Ever creative and faced with the Armageddon of a global pandemic, the King and Queen of Melbourne events Bruce and Wife Chicka morphed from a crisis into creating one of Melbourne's largest outdoor dining venues, the Almond Collective.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: And owed to big English and Parisian outdoor cafes, it's brimming with hanging plants, vintage outdoor furniture, and eclectic terraces and spaces for every kind of occasion.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's been a trying time as they've had to lay off dozens of staff with no weddings, events of any kind, but as always, they've pivoted, putting remaining staff on job pivot to work, to plant, to build, and create a new outdoor space that is now open and booking out as lockdown lefts and the sun starts to shine.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: For Bruce, the pain is easy, but it has been a tough moment.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, Bruce, welcome to the What I've Learnt podcast.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: So thrilled to have you on.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Your instas and your videos that you, you know, you communicated a lot with all of your uh customers, clients, staff through Instagram.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you you were very open and direct.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was quite emotional and I have to say informative.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we all heaved with you and felt your sadness through the lockdown.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a bit about how you've coped and what's been the biggest challenge for you and what you've learned through this time.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, it's interesting.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Some people um are great in a crisis, and others, you know, don't cope very well.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you do learn um who's on the bus and who's not on the bus pretty quickly, both in your personal and your professional life.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So there's nothing like a good pandemic to sort of clear up the cobwebs, I think, Deb.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I mean, I am very problem and solution based.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I only see um mainly positivity, and I only really see solutions to problems.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um this was a bigger problem than normal because not only was it a business um impact for myself, but it also becomes a personal um impact on the emotional um standpoint of so many people's lives.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden, you know, I had the you know, the situation of having to stand down 1,400 staff who all have mortgages and um, you know, school fees and families to protect.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that for me was a very difficult emotional journey.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So um, whilst it was the appropriate professional decision to make, it doesn't not come lightly because I take a very strong moral stance on you know what business people are supposed to do, and we are supposed to protect our people.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there were three overarching goals for me through um corona, um, COVID pandemic, and one was protect our people, two was protect our suppliers, because you know, this is a 30-year-old business, and um we have well over a uh thousand um various suppliers from the cheese guy to the you know, fish and butcher, etc.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and ensuring that they are protected as well financially was terribly important to me.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then the third um aspect was maintaining our client relationships to ensure that on the other side of this was going to be very insightful as to how we were um seen as a business and a brand, and myself personally on the other side.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So those three things was how we went into it.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um for me, and and the and part of that question was really how did I personally um uh deal with it?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: I really just look at each day as as they come.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: I divide and sort of segment it off.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I probably only had two bad, you know, personally bad days through it.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really more about the fact that for Cheeks and I, in our personal relationship, was that you know, both of our kids, one's in Boston and Chessie was living in New York.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that was probably the only thing that got to me because I've always said, you know, it's only a problem, you know, if there's a fire upstairs and one of the kids is in there and I haven't got a ladder.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: If I've got a ladder and a hose, it's not a problem.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: But um, so that was the only bit that felt like I didn't have a ladder and a half.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so Chessie's back now, is she?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: She moved from New York to LA, which was good in the in the July, um, because you know, they were bearing bodies in Central Park, and you know, there was a freighter in the middle that was a hospital, and it'd take her two and a half hours to line up at the supermarket to get a loaf of bread.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that was just a little bit Russia Siberia for me.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so LA's been a good move for her, and um, and her business very interestingly has pivoted very well, and so she's um she's busy.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, no, she's there.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So they're home for Christmas, which will be nice.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they'll be home for Christmas, which is great.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, look, obviously, you and Shika are an amazing team.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've known you for a long time, and I've seen and watched how you've just absolutely bloomed and blossomed and grown, but you've worked really hard.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: You both have extremely strong work ethic, which I really think has um borne amazing fruit on many fronts.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, your kids being overseas is a huge thing, and I think that's affected a lot of families, but as you say, that was your toughest challenge.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, how have you and Chica managed that?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Have you had in terms of you support each other?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because you've got the business side and you work together, but this is family, as you said.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: I love the latter reference too.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, um in reality, we don't really work together.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have a brilliant working relationship.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's really important.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, cheeks is the most incredible support to me in regards to um, you know, the business and how we go.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: But um, for quite a long time we've had quite separate.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, someone asked the question the other day.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we've never worked in the same building once in three years in that business, but usually, you know, over a over a gin or in bed.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the cheeks business is really mixed within the lifestyle and the homewares um arena.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: She's just about to announce a really exciting um major national um retailer ambassador program.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um that is her focus, you know.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: She loves home and she loves um entertaining and styling, but it it it sits in slightly a different arena.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so her career and her career path are really quite separate, but um notwithstanding extremely exciting.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that sort of started with the whole housewife thing and then creating a personal brand, and then from that personal brand um that has morphed into you know this lifestyle ambassador piece, which is really exciting.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so for both of us, you know, we emotionally really quite enjoyed COVID because we had time together.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, we get on extremely well, and as you said, we are each other's best supporter.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think without that support in any relationship, you can't make hard decisions, and um, to not have someone to sort of throw ideas off makes it really difficult as well.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that happens on a daily basis for us really easily.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're you know each other's best mates and have been, you know, for 32 years or something.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yes, the only thing that upset us both was the kids.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, but on the positive of that, Deb, is you know, Zoom has been an amazing adaptation for everyone.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the tech was there, we just didn't use it.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we literally spoke to both of them every day um via Zoom, and so our relationship in many ways is probably stronger with the kids than it was going into this in the beginning.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think out of all of these things, there's usually, I mean, I'm notwithstanding there's horror and there's poverty and there's so many things, and we can talk about that too.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but um, from my perspective, the silver lining with the kids has been a nice um connection through this time.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And what have you learned about yourself and about what you need?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because you guys work pretty hard, and this has given you, as you say, time with each other.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think that my the main thing I've probably learned is I am terribly resilient, and um I just will not give in on any front, which can also be redefined perhaps by my wife as stubborn.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: But resilient sounds so much nicer.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it does.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: I like we love that word resilience.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: But it just depends on the contextual nature of it being used.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, no, I think that's a really important thing.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Resilience is really important.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, uh, you know, there's a really strong executive team inside the big group.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the most important things I think out of this is also about honesty and transparency.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Those guys needed to know exactly where I stood with the business with regards to knowing exactly where they stood personally and professionally.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think that's been one of the cornerstones of how we have made decisions as an executive team in the business and how we've been able to drive things forward.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think yeah, transparency and resilience are really important.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And what about your clients?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that your clients are like family often for you.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I've experienced that myself.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're very, very um you're intimate with your family and you're intimate with your clients.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: You take things very personally.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: You don't, you know, if there's if somebody's got a beautiful family wedding, you're there.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, you're there also for people when they have funerals or when they have things that are really tough as well.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And your role, which I know that you are very much there for someone that I care deeply about.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is part of your magic.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it means that you're emotionally dipping into your soul a lot to give all of that emotional energy to your clients, which is not just you don't just see them as clients, you know, you you seem to have a very personal relationship.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I don't know.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, if if if I was chatting to someone who was young in the hospitality industry, I would say it's called hospitality for a reason.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and part of what that reason is, is generosity of spirit.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, when we have any memorable occasion in our lives, um, it's only memorable, not necessarily because the soup tasted good or you had a great wine, it's memorable because of the emotional connection that you have with the people inside that event.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, um, you know, the people who produce those events become very important as things scale up.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I just feel that that is our responsibility.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: With regards to magic, um, and you know, it's one of our cornerstones of our business is to create magic.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I it only is magic if those core fundamentals that I believe in are replicated by the people who we call the magic makers at the big group.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that only works, you know, if if it's not only me doing that, it has to be that entire team of what was 1,400 people.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's sort of how we like to think about it, because we're not just selling, you know, a blob of salmon and a you know, glass of wine.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um it has to be an all-encompassing piece.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and that that private sector of our work, which is about 30% of the business, um, is like terribly important because those occasions, be it as you said, a wedding or, you know, like the funeral thing can be just the worst time of all.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: But um there is a way of making that as beautiful and as pleasant and as memorable experience as it can be.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a very hard thing to navigate.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, you do take on that emotional um journey with people.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, each time you do it, you learn more and more about life, which is amazing.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's this whole other planet of, you know, corporate work and the major events and all of that kind of thing.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's still about relationships, because our business fundamentally is a relationship business.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the luxury of that, and also, you know, maybe it's a negative too, but the luxury of that when COVID hit, you know, we knew that in that third pillar, that if we didn't protect those relationships as we had done for 30 years before, we wouldn't have a business on the other side of this.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um, those people, that family, and those connections are every bit of what makes the business operate.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So coming out of that, obviously the Ormond Collective is, you know, on the other side of the business, but but really what you've created there is just, you know, a wonderful energy.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, I think that you really have shown that you have been resourceful, you've supported your staff, you've ensured that you keep being creative and you've created something that's quite special for Melbourne.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And lucky, lucky for you, there's lots of outdoor spaces because that actually, I mean, who would have thought that that's what you know?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's really quite critical to moving forward.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, how did you come up with it and how you know where does it come from?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gat I'm assuming I read something that you've been traveling and you'd seen lots of outdoor uh terraces and cafes.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so tell me a little bit about that, where your inspiration came from.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Everything always has a strategy, right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: So there has to be there has to be a problem to find the purpose to find the solution.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the problem at the time when I thought of um doing the Commons was um around May.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I was terribly worried about the culture inside the business.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, of course, we had the three pillars of what sort of was was overarching.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: But once you lose culture, you lose creativity extremely quickly alongside that.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and once the creativity goes, the product gets diminished very quickly.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: So these are really tangible, you know, things in the food and beverage hospitality business.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um the cornerstone was really to recreate that culture.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I woke up and all of a sudden thought we'll build a garden.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I thought at least by doing something, because I had a lot of people on JobKeeper and nothing actually for them to do.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people thought we should have done you know at-home lasagnas and all this stuff.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: But the company is of a sort of a really considerable scale.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: To go and sell lasagnas at$25 isn't to me like a smart move.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: So um so I thought the garden was just something that would bring us all together and we could, you know, actually get our hands dirty, but we would have something to show in the spring when um I felt that COVID would be done, which was the September.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'd sort of signed off six months, as it's turned out it's nine, but um, we weren't far off.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So then we started bringing people in and then it and it just sort of grew because then I looked at these spaces here and realized that old Belgian beer bar was really, you know, it was an icon in Melbourne.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so then, yeah, with the thought in mind of sort of the Ivy in LA and a bit of Petersham nurseries, you know, with a bit of, you know, the Coxwoods on the side, we built this, you know, beautiful garden to give Melbourne back something for them.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it was copied a little bit from what had happened in New York and London and Paris, in that outdoor became the absolute focus for those markets.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we knew that that would be the Australian focus as well.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't know how bad COVID was going to be for Victoria, but um, business for me was about finding a gap.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when you find the gap and solve it, you're in business.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Very, very clever, and of course, very much, very much how you operate.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can see that across the board.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm interested, obviously, that's one part of your business, but then you've got all the weddings, the events.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now, tell us, are we going to have weddings back and in what form and how?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, really, there are so many, you know, there are so many brides and young people having who have put off their weddings, and obviously you would be at the absolute cornerstone of knowing what's up ahead and how long it's going to take.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, look, that is just such a hard one, and it's so emotional.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, it's just it's devastating because, you know, part of what we do is bring joy to people, and you know, we work on these events for people, you know, six, eight, twelve, eighteen months, you know, to create a beautiful, you know, memory for people.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so many people just have had that, you know, kiboshed.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in March, we were pulling down tents and ripping flowers out of uh marquees that couldn't be used for events.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was devastating.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's a fight that's not over.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's and in fact, it's a fight that's just beginning.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so many people see what we've done with the commons and they're like, woo-hoo, you know, you it's all solved.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it it it's it's a sidebar, you know, it's a marketing way, and it's a great way of repositioning brand, and it's a great way of getting our people back working and get over that employee fatigue, but it's not solving the master problem.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the master problem is that you know the venue business, the business event sector of um Victoria and really Australia um has to come back.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, the health as the health crisis diminishes, um, the numbers will start moving up, and then we'll have the opportunity.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: I feel really confident that by the January, February, March sector, we will be back doing weddings of reasonable scale.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, to have 70 people at a wedding is not what the current bride really wants.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: She equally doesn't want to wear, you know, a lace mask, even if it's by Valentino, and she wants to dance with her family and friends.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to get these next pieces done.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're building a group out at the moment to sort of really start to fight for that.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think New South Wales did the hard work for us, so I think it will be easier.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we just need those double donuts to keep on going, and then it will be very hard for government to not see the um the ability to bring those sectors back.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as I keep saying to my brides, you know, as the public transport system gets busier and Chadston gets busier, it's pretty difficult to stop an industry that knows the six principles of COVID and we know how to contact trace within our own environments.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be pretty tough to say no to this mounding um group of people.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm hoping for January, February, March we'll be back up and running.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so this organizational group of people that you're talking about that are canvassing this, what's the essence of that?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we created a thing called Save Vic Events about two months ago or so.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it was primarily in the beginning to push the outdoor density quotent because we knew the outdoor quotent led to the indoor quotent, the indoor quotent in the end would lead to the wedding.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it was trying to pick off one clean thing for government that they could actually digest and understand.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was a little difficult for them to digest, and I don't know if they did actually understand it.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll never be a politician because I don't I'm not good at all that red tape.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, so what we've done is actually there's two groups going.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: One is in the business events sector.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Business Events Australia is a$38 billion economic impact.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's another group we're putting together in Victoria, which represents about a billion dollars within the wedding sector.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, there are so many small traders, Deb, who got nothing through JobKeeper.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these are at-home wedding photographers, um, florists.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And they're young, a lot of them too.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and what this has really taught me is, you know, because I've been speaking to so many people, not only in you know, CBD, Melbourne, MAP, whatever, um, you know, these people in Ipsland have already suffered the bloody bushfires.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: They had their business stuffed then, then they've had the COVID.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: So there's just so many people in a regional sector as well who are doing it really tough.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got to get this fight rolling, we've got to get these numbers up, it's got to be done in a safe way.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we cannot ignore COVID because it's actually not going to go away.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: It just needs to become a business principle, no different than health and safety, no different than sustainability.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: We just add that on as one of the processes of what we do in the event sector, and we'll do it probably better than any other industry.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Currently, in retail, you can go into any bloody shop you want.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to check in or do anything.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: We are doing so much more than any other industry, and yet we have been the most um disabled by this on a financial level and um with regards to regulations.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gleaning from what you're saying is not only you have had to become a bit political just by virtue of the circumstances you find yourself in, but um, you know, being involved with these groups and clearly you're quite a leader in this area because of your role.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: But it sounds like you're a little hopeful, cautiously hopeful.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Would that be a correct assessment?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: More than cautiously hopeful.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the premier announcing 200 outdoors and 100 indoors really changes the game because, you know, uh, you know, maybe someone got wet married on, you know, Thursday and they couldn't have a wedding.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: They could have a wedding for 20 and now they might be able to have 100.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: It makes a very big difference.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's still some confusion though, because DHSS are saying one thing and the government are saying another thing.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got to get some clarity on that.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: But um it's moving, it's definitely moving in the right direction, and we're definitely seeing change, and there's definitely push for change inside government.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'd like to thank you, Bruce, for coming on the What I've Learned podcast.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: I've loved chatting to you as always, and I'm very excited to see what's up ahead for you and the big group in the next year or so.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's going to be super creative.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever it is, you will always entertain.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: You find things, you know, like um, you know, retail was never a sector that we ever really, I've personally ever really loved because I don't like the margin in it.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: But from doing the commons, we've positioned the brand in a different way.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: And there's been so many interesting conversations um about what will happen in the new COVID market.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, yep, out of adversity comes um something new, I hope.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Nice to chat, Bruce, and I'll see you hopefully on the weekend when I pop in.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you've learned as much as I have.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: The show will be coming to you free every month, and a subscription is the best way to ensure you get each episode downloaded straight into your pocket.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: For more stories or for an opportunity to tell your own, head to my website, mindful and publishing.com.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: In the meantime, stay curious, kind, and connected with Love.