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#061_ STORY INSPIRE: Decisions that transforman with Chris Williamson · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day.
• 0:12
  We're up. What's up? Christopher. Hi. Good to see you.
• 0:14
  Thank you very much for the book. This is very
• 0:16
  cool of you. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris just gifted me
• 0:19
  Ladies and Gentlemen, Lenny Bruce, which is a fucking amazing book.
• 0:23
  And it's inscripted, there's an inscription inside, to Yoko Ono,
• 0:29
  who knows well what the jazz life entails. And it's
• 0:35
  Albert Goldman. And you were just telling me that Albert Goldman,
• 0:38
  this was his way of weaving into the Yoko Ono,
• 0:42
  John Lennon camp. Exactly, yeah.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: And then he goes and writes a book that blows
• 0:46
  him up. I've just exploded a can of Nutanix all
• 0:48
  over my crotch as well. Jamie, have you got a napkin?
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: Apologies.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: We don't?
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: That's all right.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Premature.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: We have tissues.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: No?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: All right. He says no.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Jamie says no. Yeah, so he writes that book and
• 1:06
  then gifts it to Yoko Ono. And by giving it
• 1:09
  to her, I think, is the beginning of him working
• 1:11
  his way into that camp. And then he goes on
• 1:13
  to write the book, The Lives of John Lennon, which,
• 1:16
  after he's dead, kind of explodes a lot of what
• 1:18
  was going on personally, whether it was true or not.
• 1:20
  There's a lot of drama and furor around it. But
• 1:23
  I knew that it was your favorite book, and we
• 1:24
  were supposed to... Well, thank you.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: That's very cool of you. I did not know about that.
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: The.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: That he wrote the John Lennon book as well. It's
• 1:31
  really interesting because the John Lennon book, it's– God, it's
• 1:33
  so weird to write a book like that after a
• 1:35
  guy is dead and he can't respond to it. Yeah.
• 1:38
  Where you're accusing– was it ex-wives that accused him of
• 1:42
  domestic violence? I don't know. Who accused him?
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: I think that whole furor was just a mess. And
• 1:52
  obviously when someone is dead, what are they going to do?
• 1:54
  How are they going to be able to come back
• 1:55
  from that?
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: They can't. Yeah. Exactly. Well, it's kind of– it's just
• 1:59
  weird that you're allowed to do that. You're allowed to
• 2:02
  say this happened, that happened. The guy can't say no, no,
• 2:05
  and I can prove it. Like he can't say anything.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: And it's also like the give peace a chance guy.
• 2:10
  Like the give peace a chance guy has beaten his wife. Boy,
• 2:15
  it's not that surprising giving like human contradiction. It's like
• 2:20
  male feminists that turn out to be sexual predators. There's
• 2:23
  a lot of them, right? There's a lot of that
• 2:24
  weird stuff going on where people pretend to be one
• 2:26
  thing and they're actually another thing.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Sneaky fuckers.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sneaky fuckers. The give peace a chance guy beating
• 2:31
  his wife, though. It's like, I can't believe that. I
• 2:34
  have a really hard time believing that. But I've been
• 2:37
  fooled before, right? Like, he seems like the most peaceful,
• 2:40
  nonviolent guy of all time. If that guy's... But I'd
• 2:43
  read a bunch of stuff about him being a cunt.
• 2:46
  Goldman portrayed Lennon as having numerous sexual relationships outside his marriages.
• 2:50
  His accounts include Well-known relationship with May Pang. You like
• 2:54
  the Asians, huh? JL.
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: Keep going.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Additional affairs with women framed as habitual cheating. Claims of
• 3:05
  sexual encounters with men, including an alleged relationship with Beatles
• 3:09
  manager Brian Epstein. Hey. For more serious allegations, including claims
• 3:14
  involving male prostitutes in Thailand and other conduct that Goldman
• 3:18
  characterized as sexual predation. The thing is, like, how is
• 3:21
  he getting all this information about, like, male prostitutes in Thailand? And,
• 3:27
  you know, like, how do you know? You know what
• 3:29
  I mean? Like, did someone tell you? Original research. Did
• 3:32
  you go there? Like, did you go there and talk
• 3:34
  to the prostitute?
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: I surveyed the prostitutes.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: I saw it's cock. Why the book is disputed. The
• 3:41
  problem is the reliability of Goldman's specific accusations. At publication,
• 3:46
  Yoko Ono and Paul McCartney publicly condemned the book. Contemporary
• 3:50
  reporting noted claims of factual errors, contradictions, unattributed assertions, and
• 3:56
  material allegedly based on dubious sources or quotations used out
• 4:00
  of context. Look, that is not uncommon. Did I ever
• 4:03
  tell you what Bill Murray said on the podcast? So
• 4:07
  Bill Murray was reading Bob Woodward's book, Wired. And he
• 4:12
  said he got through like five pages. He said, oh,
• 4:14
  my God, they framed Nixon. Because Bob Woodward was the
• 4:19
  guy who did Watergate. And he said this book was
• 4:22
  so full of shit. It was so fake. He like
• 4:25
  he portrayed he portrayed. The whole scene of like what
• 4:33
  he was up to as being like hardcore drugs constantly
• 4:39
  all the time, just just. Fucking losing his mind. And
• 4:43
  he's like, no, dude, he was a lightweight. He wasn't
• 4:46
  like that at all.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: So you knew he was totally fabricated?
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: He said, this is not my friend. Like, I knew him.
• 4:53
  He was my best friend. He's like, this is not him.
• 4:56
  And then I told him the story of how Bob
• 4:58
  Woodward was an intelligence agent. And that was his first
• 5:02
  assignment ever. Tucker told me this story on the podcast.
• 5:05
  That Bob Woodward and the other guy. What's the other
• 5:08
  guy's name? Bernstein. Bernstein. Bob Woodward, this was a rookie assignment.
• 5:13
  A rookie assignment is going to take down the fucking
• 5:16
  president of the United States. And his first job outside
• 5:20
  of being a fucking intelligence agent is to work for
• 5:24
  The Washington Post on his first story, which is going
• 5:28
  to take down the most popular president in the history
• 5:30
  of the United States, won by the largest margin ever.
• 5:35
  And this is the guy that said he knew who
• 5:37
  killed Jack Kennedy. And apparently that's why they got rid
• 5:40
  of Nixon. Tucker told me the whole story of the podcast.
• 5:43
  I was like, holy shit. This is fucking crazy.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: You're connecting the dots.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: It's a crazy fucking story.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: Have you been following this Lindsay Clancy case?
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: Who's that?
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: This lady who killed three of her kids.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, no. I've tried not to. That's a bummer. It's
• 6:00
  basically 2026's OJ Simpson. Before we get into that, I'd
• 6:08
  love to get into that. This Belushi thing is important
• 6:12
  because like his friend is telling you that he was
• 6:16
  not like that. Woodward makes him out to be this
• 6:20
  maniacal cocaine addled heroin fueled guy. He's like, no, he
• 6:26
  was a lightweight. He said he would get drunk off
• 6:28
  a couple drinks. So our whole narrative of who John
• 6:32
  Belushi is, is by the same guy who framed Nixon. Like,
• 6:37
  But once someone's dead, you can say whatever the fuck
• 6:40
  you want. You can say whatever you want.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: And who's going to defend this person with the same
• 6:45
  level of vitriol or vehementness that someone who's still alive
• 6:49
  is going to?
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: No one. No one. And there's nothing you can do.
• 6:52
  He's gone. Everyone's mourning. Everyone's sad. And then someone writes
• 6:55
  some book. Oh, he used to fuck kids. Like what?
• 6:58
  Like you could just write whatever you want and then
• 7:00
  maybe they could sue you. But boy, you're going to
• 7:02
  make an extraordinary amount of money off of that book.
• 7:05
  Like people are going to be hyped up for that book.
• 7:07
  You have a book about John Lennon was like into meditation.
• 7:09
  He liked to do LSD. No one's buying that shit.
• 7:11
  John Lennon liked to fuck guys in Thailand. Let's go.
• 7:15
  Let's go. Right? You can write anything.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Who's going to fight back that hard as well once
• 7:20
  someone's gone?
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: You can't prove it. He's dead.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: Well, it's all hearsay. Even the defense is now hearsay. Yes.
• 7:26
  The defense of the person who is now no longer alive.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: That's hearsay.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Everything's hearsay. Yeah.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: So the defense is always going to be flimsy in
• 7:33
  comparison to the accusation because the accusation feels like it's
• 7:36
  got more substance to it. This is someone who's gone
• 7:38
  out and done original research. You didn't go to Thailand.
• 7:40
  You didn't speak to the prostitutes.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: But even that, like no one's buying it. It's just
• 7:45
  you can get away with so much. It's really kind
• 7:48
  of crazy. So you didn't know about the Nixon story?
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: No.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: You should hear Tucker say it because when Tucker lays
• 7:55
  it out and you're like, what? It's even more complex.
• 7:59
  Like the people that were involved in Watergate were all FBI.
• 8:04
  It's crazy. They set him up. Why? Because he was
• 8:07
  going to expose who killed JFK, which was just a
• 8:11
  few years earlier.
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: Fuck, dude.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: This country is wild. I mean I love it, but
• 8:16
  it is crazy.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: They also– he had a vice president, Spiro Agnew, and
• 8:21
  they got rid of him on corruption charges and put
• 8:23
  Lyndon Johnson in.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: But couldn't these people have still spoken out? Like getting
• 8:28
  rid of them out of office– That doesn't stop them
• 8:30
  from whistleblowing, does it?
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: First of all, they killed his predecessor, right? They killed JFK.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: So you think that was a warning shot? Like, we
• 8:38
  can get you out?
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Well, he knew they could. They definitely did. And they
• 8:42
  also got rid of him, right? And, you know, he
• 8:44
  didn't organize Watergate. He covered it up. They brought it
• 8:47
  to him. They said, hey, there was some recording equipment.
• 8:49
  He's like, don't tell anybody. And that's what got him.
• 8:52
  That's what got him. See if you can find the
• 8:53
  clip of Tucker talking about it, because it is really insane.
• 8:57
  When you read the when you hear him lay out
• 8:59
  the story and then I read it online, I went
• 9:01
  into it to see like, oh, is this totally everything's accurate.
• 9:05
  And it's so weird that our perception of Nixon has
• 9:08
  been this corrupt crook. You know, look, he was a
• 9:12
  very right wing product of his time. And today his
• 9:17
  politics and his views on people, especially like minorities and
• 9:21
  a lot of other things would probably be very disgraceful
• 9:24
  and people would not like it. But we're talking about,
• 9:26
  you know, the 1960s, the early 1970s. And he's an
• 9:30
  old school, old timey Republican guy. That said, he was
• 9:34
  the most popular president ever at his time. And they
• 9:38
  got rid of him. They turned him into a crook.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: That's power.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: It's it's really crazy. You got to listen to this
• 9:44
  because it's kind of nuts.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Ogun experiences.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Bizarre that the New York Times wouldn't have an issue
• 9:51
  with that.
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: Well, the New York Times does that all the time.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: But bizarre that they wouldn't have an issue with the
• 9:56
  government tapping into your phone. They work for the government.
• 9:59
  Are you kidding me? New York Times?
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, the New York Times is a conduit for the
• 10:03
  lies of government.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: That's what it is.
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: It's their tool. And they're perfectly aware of that. I mean,
• 10:10
  I used to write for the New York Times as
• 10:11
  a freelancer. I mean, I've been around the New York
• 10:13
  Times a lot. And yeah, there are a lot of
• 10:16
  really smart people there, for sure. Even now, I would
• 10:18
  say less so now. But there's still I think smart
• 10:20
  people there.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: There are. I know some. And they know.
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: But they think that, you know, it's worth it because
• 10:27
  they're bringing information. I don't know what they think, actually. But, no,
• 10:31
  they're tools of power. And that's, like, the one thing
• 10:35
  that you're not allowed to be. Even if you think
• 10:36
  the power is good, like maybe they all support the
• 10:38
  agenda of the U.S. government, destabilizing the world and impoverishing
• 10:42
  their own population. Maybe they're on board with that. Even
• 10:46
  if they are, they shouldn't do it. Because the job
• 10:48
  of the media, the press, is to keep power in check.
• 10:54
  You are kind of like the seatbelt, right? You make
• 10:59
  sure that things don't go too far. And they're not
• 11:04
  doing that. They're acting as a willing handmaiden.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: When do you think that switched?
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: I think it's been the case for a long time.
• 11:11
  I mean, if you look at what happened to Richard Nixon,
• 11:13
  which I, of course, did not understand at all. Richard
• 11:16
  Nixon was taken out by the FBI and CIA and
• 11:22
  with the help of Bob Woodward, who was a Washington
• 11:24
  Post reporter who had been a naval intelligence officer working
• 11:29
  in the White House, working in the Nixon White House.
• 11:33
  And then he shows up like a year later and
• 11:37
  he's this brand new reporter. He'd never been a journalist
• 11:40
  at all. He's a naval intel officer. The famous Bob
• 11:43
  Woodward we all revere. And he's at the Washington Post.
• 11:47
  And somehow he gets the biggest story in the history
• 11:50
  of the Washington Post. He's the lead guy in that story. Well,
• 11:53
  I worked at a newspaper. I've been in the news
• 11:54
  business my whole life. That is not how it works.
• 11:57
  You don't take a kid like his first day from
• 11:59
  a totally unrelated business and put him on the biggest story.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: But he was. He was that guy.
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: And who is his main source for Watergate?
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, the number two guy at the FBI.
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: Oh, so you have the naval intelligence officer working with
• 12:14
  the FBI official. To destroy the president. OK, so that's
• 12:19
  a deep state coup.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: What else?
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: How would you describe that? If that happened in Guatemala,
• 12:23
  what would you say?
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: And yet the way it was framed in the way
• 12:26
  that I accepted for decades was, oh, this intrepid reporter
• 12:30
  fought power.
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: No, no, no.
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: This intrepid reporter, Bob Woodward, was a tool of power,
• 12:35
  secret power, which is the most threatening kind to bounce
• 12:40
  the single most popular president in American history, Richard Nixon,
• 12:44
  from office before the end of his term. and replace
• 12:47
  him with who? Oh, Gerald Ford, who sat on the
• 12:50
  Warren Commission. Now, how did Gerald Ford get to be
• 12:53
  Richard Nixon's vice president? Well, because Carl Albert, the Democrat
• 12:58
  Speaker of the House, told him, you must choose him.
• 13:00
  We will only confirm him when they sent the actual
• 13:04
  elected vice president away for tax evasion, Spiro Agnew of Maryland.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: So you have a complete setup.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Like an absolute... Gerald Ford.
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: the only unelected president in American history, actually sat on
• 13:16
  the Warren Commission. Something else that I accepted at face
• 13:19
  value until I looked at it and I was like,
• 13:20
  that's completely insane. You didn't want to interview Jack Ruby
• 13:23
  in your.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Investigation of the assassination?
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, you're fake.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he was on the Warren Commission. Fuck me.
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: And so, sorry for the long story, but the point is,
• 13:32
  like that happened in front of all of us, but
• 13:35
  the way it was framed cloaked the obvious reality of it.
• 13:38
  The people who broke into the Watergate office building from
• 13:41
  which the name is taken, Watergate, I think it was
• 13:45
  six of them or seven of them. All but one
• 13:47
  was a CIA employee. That's real. It's like, look it
• 13:51
  up on Google. So the whole thing, Richard Nixon was
• 13:56
  elected by more votes than any president in American history
• 14:00
  in the 1972 election. He was the most popular by votes,
• 14:04
  which is the only way we can really measure popularity,
• 14:06
  the most popular president in his reelection campaign. And two
• 14:10
  years later, he's gone. Undone by a naval intel officer,
• 14:14
  the number two guy at the FBI, and a bunch
• 14:16
  of CIA employees.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: You tell me what that is.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: How about that?
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: Dude, this country's wild.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: How about that? Yeah. That's Bob Woodward. That's the guy
• 14:28
  who wrote Wired. And when Bill Murray said that, he
• 14:31
  read the book and he said, oh, my God, they
• 14:33
  framed Nixon. And then I showed him that. And he
• 14:36
  was like, holy shit. Because he was a part of
• 14:40
  a thing. They were doing with Hunter S. Thompson, Bill
• 14:44
  Murray was when he was really young, and where he
• 14:47
  would go around and tell people that Nixon needs a
• 14:50
  second chance. But it was all parody. It was all, like, tongue-in-cheek.
• 14:53
  It was satire. He was going around pretending that he
• 14:57
  supported Nixon and Nixon needed a second chance and getting, like, young,
• 15:00
  dumb people to go along with him on this.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: And now in retrospect.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: In retrospect. Like, I mean— whether or not at the
• 15:08
  time he ever wanted Nixon as president. And, you know, look,
• 15:12
  there's a lot of problems with Nixon. There's a lot
• 15:14
  of problems with the Vietnam war. There's a lot of
• 15:16
  problems with civil rights. Nixon passed the controlled substances act,
• 15:20
  which is the reason why all psychedelic drugs to this
• 15:22
  day are schedule one. Nixon was a fucking problem. No
• 15:25
  doubt about it. However, what they did when they, the
• 15:30
  way they got rid of that guy is scary shit.
• 15:33
  And they pulled it off. No one got arrested. No
• 15:36
  one got indicted. No one even got criticized.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: But could he not have still released information after– why?
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: He would have been a dead man, 100 percent.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: Because no protection because you're not in office anymore?
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: First of all, no one would have believed him.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: It would have sounded like sour grapes. I'm throwing these
• 15:50
  people under the bus, the administration. It got rid of me.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: There's also no internet. So how is he going to
• 15:55
  release it? Is the New York Times going to write this?
• 15:57
  Is he going to write a letter to the press
• 15:59
  and they're going to print it?
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: No.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: There's literally no recourse.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: It's kind of genius.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: There's no podcasts. There's no shows that he could go on.
• 16:07
  No one. He was disgraced. No one would even have
• 16:09
  him on a late night show. But if he even
• 16:11
  got on a late night show, he would need about
• 16:13
  90 minutes to explain it all. He would have to
• 16:16
  take it from the beginning. There was a time when
• 16:18
  I wondered who killed Jack Kennedy and I found out
• 16:22
  and I brought it to them and I told them
• 16:24
  I know who killed Jack and the room went cold.
• 16:27
  He would tell the whole story. And it would take
• 16:29
  a lot if podcasts were a lot around back then. Yes.
• 16:33
  If just Instagram was around back then and Twitter and
• 16:36
  he could write about it and make a video.
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: YouTube. Yeah. If that was around. But there was nothing.
• 16:42
  There was nothing. And they fucking shot JFK in the
• 16:45
  head in front of everybody and shot the guy who
• 16:48
  they claimed killed him like that. And then the other
• 16:51
  guy they dosed up with acid and made crazy. And
• 16:53
  that was a wrap. Done. That was it. You know.
• 16:58
  And like how many– I mean this is just modern
• 17:02
  versions of air quotes history. How many old stories that
• 17:10
  we have that we just have accepted these historical narratives?
• 17:15
  We've accepted all of these stories as being, well, this
• 17:20
  is how it went down. How many of them are bullshit?
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: Well, forget history being written by the victors. History can
• 17:25
  be written by the person who's got a pen. Sure.
• 17:27
  And when so few people have got pens, so few
• 17:29
  people have got the opportunity to distribute. I suppose the
• 17:32
  problem that we have now is in the modern world,
• 17:34
  there's so much information conflicting narratives. People get confused, right?
• 17:39
  You've gone from a scarcity of information to such an
• 17:41
  abundance that people just, I can't work out what's going on. Fuck,
• 17:45
  I'm just not going to believe anything.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It's very interesting because it's a great tool
• 17:52
  to kind of, you can obfuscate, you can do a
• 17:55
  lot of things with A bunch of bullshit information. The
• 17:59
  more bullshit information you have, the more like really significant
• 18:01
  information doesn't really hit as much.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: It's just like it gets watered down, then it goes away.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: The goal, I think, of the velocity of the information
• 18:09
  is not to convince people of any one narrative.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: It's to make them completely nihilistic about the belief in
• 18:14
  any narrative.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes. Any narrative. Yeah. And also just to kind
• 18:20
  of accept that feeling of hopelessness that you can't change anything. Correct.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: It's all fucked.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: That feels pliable.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: And then there might be something down the line. If
• 18:28
  nothing else, you're not going to have an agentic, sovereign uprising.
• 18:33
  What can we do in any case? I don't even
• 18:35
  know what's going on.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: I'm checked out.
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: Like the nihilism, the cynicism, I don't think that that's
• 18:39
  a byproduct. I think that's– It's a plan. Correct.
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  for 14 days. One non-withdrawable reward redeemable. Yeah, it's a design.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: And it's smart. And it works. And it's not even
• 20:17
  like they engineered it. It sort of emerged and they
• 20:20
  took advantage of these new tools. Because these new tools,
• 20:23
  you know, social media, is more effective than anything we've
• 20:26
  ever had before. And so they go, oh, but look
• 20:28
  at all this. No one pays attention to CNN. We
• 20:32
  don't even use them anymore. We just like douse the
• 20:36
  whole world with horse shit on Instagram and threads.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: Seed stories here and there.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Just bullshit. Just pure bullshit. There's accounts that I know
• 20:46
  when I look at what they said, Justin Timberlake arrested
• 20:48
  for murder. They'll write things like that. You're like, what?
• 20:52
  And it's just a made-up story. And there's like hundreds
• 20:55
  of them. Where you look– and there's some of them
• 20:58
  I recognize the account and I see it. I go, oh,
• 21:00
  there's another made-up story. Halle Berry kills five.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: What do you think we should do about this? Because
• 21:04
  obviously this country, freedom of speech, et cetera, et cetera.
• 21:08
  But I don't know. Should there be a way to
• 21:11
  try and counter this?
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Yes. Well, first of all, those people aren't real people
• 21:15
  for the most part. And if you go to their page,
• 21:17
  a lot of them are like in Pakistan or somewhere else.
• 21:21
  And of course– I don't know how effective X in
• 21:25
  particular is. I know they've taken steps to show that
• 21:29
  when you go to the person's page, someone's commenting on U.S.
• 21:32
  politics and you go to their page and say Myanmar. Myanmar.
• 21:35
  Why do you go– what are you doing? So– but
• 21:38
  that to me is like, OK, is there a way
• 21:41
  around that? Are these like completely non-sophisticated people where they
• 21:44
  have to show that they're in Myanmar? What if they
• 21:47
  had like a corporation in Idaho and they had it
• 21:50
  set up where they all registered there– And so your
• 21:53
  bills get sent to there. Everything gets sent to there.
• 21:55
  And it just says the United States. And you're using
• 21:57
  a VPN or you have some other way of connecting.
• 22:00
  It doesn't– like if fucking AI can get out of
• 22:03
  a sandbox and get on the internet. You're telling me
• 22:06
  that you can't hide the fact that you're actually.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: From– Vietnamese people can't pretend to be from Idaho.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Come on.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: So who knows?
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: X feels like the fucking Wild West.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: It's the Wild West. It really is. It's worse than
• 22:17
  the Wild West. It's the Wild West with robots. It's
• 22:20
  that Western show. What's that show called?
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: Westworld.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Westworld.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: That's what it is. Correct. It's Wild West with robots. Yeah.
• 22:27
  It's really Westworld because– and most of these fucking people
• 22:31
  that you're bantering with and they're posting these fake stories–
• 22:34
  They're probably not even real people. They're probably AI. They're
• 22:37
  either people that are hired to do it or they're AI.
• 22:40
  You get a bunch of AI scripts and they just
• 22:42
  run it all the time and they post periodically throughout
• 22:45
  the day.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: And interesting, not long ago, what, five? When did Elon
• 22:49
  buy X?
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: 23?
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, something like that, 23. So five years ago, everyone
• 22:54
  was so worried that we didn't have a town square.
• 22:57
  We don't have anywhere that we can talk.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: And now we're like, fucking take it back. Well, one
• 23:01
  thing that Elon has realized- is that you have to
• 23:06
  take away some of the incentives to post fake stuff
• 23:09
  without putting up a barrier and saying you can't post
• 23:12
  this and censoring people. You can't incentivize them. So the
• 23:16
  thing is you can make money on X. So now
• 23:20
  the way they're setting it up for these people that post,
• 23:23
  you can't make money off of fake content. You can't
• 23:26
  make money off of this stuff. So there's no incentive
• 23:29
  because I think part of the incentive is muddying the water,
• 23:31
  muddying the narrative. But I think also part of the
• 23:34
  incentive is just financial because if you're running some company
• 23:37
  in Thailand and you have like 50 people working for you,
• 23:40
  you're probably making good money just getting millions of clicks
• 23:43
  on bullshit nonsense videos that are AI and a bunch
• 23:47
  of fucking fake stories that people concoct or AI concocts.
• 23:51
  As soon as you cut out the money and say–
• 23:55
  You're only paid for original content. That's it. That's all
• 23:58
  you can get paid for. That changes the game. That
• 24:00
  changes everything.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: I think if you align the incentives for most people,
• 24:03
  shit gets fixed. Yeah. Like incentives are an unbelievable motivating force.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: And if you can have that on X, I think
• 24:09
  that that fixes a lot of the problems.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: It fixes a lot of it. But honestly, you got
• 24:13
  to be able to tell whether something's AI. Because even
• 24:19
  if there's no incentive, you could shift narratives so easily.
• 24:23
  If you just have 100,000 AI scripts running 100,000 accounts,
• 24:30
  it's not hard for a state to do, like a
• 24:33
  country to do, to have like those kind of resources.
• 24:37
  You can change public opinion on things. Most people are
• 24:40
  dumb as fuck. And you start arguing for something that
• 24:43
  kind of makes sense. And all of a sudden, yeah,
• 24:46
  I don't know what a woman is either. You know,
• 24:49
  like weird narratives can get real weird. And especially people
• 24:52
  start attacking the people that disagree with whatever this narrative
• 24:55
  they're trying to push. Nobody wants to get attacked. Well,
• 24:57
  I mean, I didn't understand the consequences.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: Of my words.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: That's a different kind of incentive, right? That's a social incentive.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: And the incentive is a disincentive. You don't want to
• 25:05
  be pushed back against.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: So few people have original thoughts. So few people. The
• 25:11
  vast majority of original thinkers kind of marionette two different
• 25:15
  armies of NPCs that believe the thing that a few
• 25:18
  people that have original thoughts ended up coming up with.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think there's a bunch of unfortunate realities
• 25:24
  that none of us like to accept. And one of
• 25:26
  them is that some people are dumb. They're born dumb.
• 25:30
  Some people have big noses. Some people have big ears.
• 25:33
  And some people have brains that are made out of
• 25:35
  dog shit. And that's just how it is. And there's
• 25:37
  nothing you can do about that. And there's varying levels
• 25:40
  of that. Like, you know, I always feel like that
• 25:42
  when I'm talking to someone really smart. Like, geez, my
• 25:44
  brain sucks. It varies, like, wildly. Just like athletics. There's
• 25:50
  some people like, dude, you are never going to the Olympics.
• 25:54
  You look at them like, I don't give a fuck
• 25:55
  what you do. And there's other guys like, you want
• 25:58
  to coach them. Like, hey, if you just did anything,
• 26:00
  you'd be a freak. You'd be amazing at this. You
• 26:03
  just have natural gifts. That's the same thing intellectually. There's
• 26:06
  certain people that I've talked to where you're like, yo.
• 26:10
  There's people that are fucking barely figuring out how to
• 26:15
  get through a day. And, you know, if you expect
• 26:20
  those people to go and learn how to code, remember that?
• 26:22
  Learn to code? Remember all that? This is not there.
• 26:26
  It's not there. I can't teach my dog how to type.
• 26:29
  It's not there. It's not going to happen. That's just
• 26:34
  the reality of genetic variability. There's going to be a
• 26:38
  bunch of people that are really fucking smart and a
• 26:40
  bunch of people that are really athletic and really good
• 26:42
  looking and really ugly and really stupid and all of
• 26:45
  it together.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: It's one of the reasons I think that the paternalistic,
• 26:48
  we have to look after the little person thing has
• 26:51
  a little bit of legs. People sometimes like, well, we
• 26:53
  actually need to step in, in some way. And I'm
• 26:55
  sure me and you need fucking assistance. Like we need
• 26:57
  smarter people than us to tell us what to do
• 26:59
  with health to a degree, or else we would have
• 27:01
  been sideswiped by some fucking psyop from whatever organization or
• 27:05
  company or new initiative is trying to convince us of
• 27:08
  some new trends that's actually going to be bad for us.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Or just to communicate with each other. Where the fuck
• 27:13
  would we be without these wizards who have figured out
• 27:16
  cell phones and laptops? And high-speed internet and Starlink. We're fucked.
• 27:21
  So all of these people even pretending that they're smart.
• 27:24
  You're on the backs of the labor of the real geniuses,
• 27:28
  you fucking idiot. Like, yeah, you're getting a lot of
• 27:31
  information online. You're developing more and more information that you
• 27:34
  can memorize. That's different. That's different than you inventing cell phones.
• 27:41
  Just stop. That's different. It's different than you inventing FaceTime.
• 27:47
  You know, like, we're all dumb.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: We are all dumb. Yesterday, I don't know whether you
• 27:52
  saw this, the UK Home Office decided it was going
• 27:54
  to release a booklet giving guidance to asylum seekers on
• 27:58
  acceptable and unacceptable behavior in the UK.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, well, that'll fix it.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: It explains that consent's required for sex, that women have
• 28:05
  equal rights, that sexual harassment is unacceptable, including for partners
• 28:09
  and children, and that female genital mutilation is not allowed.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, God.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: This was a nine-page booklet that got released by the
• 28:17
  UK Home Office yesterday. It's everywhere.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: Oh, dude.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: And it's got these warnings partway through it that say
• 28:23
  things like, this may affect your asylum status, whether or
• 28:27
  not this is part of an understanding that you have
• 28:31
  arrived here with. This is an important part of British
• 28:34
  law and our culture, and this is something that you
• 28:37
  cannot do. Female genital mutilation is not allowed. Sexual harassment
• 28:41
  inside of the home or outside. Women have equal rights.
• 28:45
  Consent is something that's important. It is– and that's what
• 28:48
  I mean.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: The idea that you could just write it down on
• 28:52
  paper and give it to them. Well, that's it. Solved it.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: Well, the idea that we're going to do this in retrospect.
• 28:59
  Like now that you're here, here is a piece of
• 29:01
  paper that hopefully undoes something, which if you've put this
• 29:04
  together and put it out on the home office website
• 29:06
  and this is everywhere on X. If you've decided to
• 29:10
  do this, it is evidently a big enough problem that
• 29:12
  you need to really turn the taps on with it.
• 29:14
  It's like, dude– How is it that this is not
• 29:17
  done before people arrive in the country? Like, is this
• 29:20
  not the sort of thing that you need to be
• 29:21
  doing like proactively, not retroactively?
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: I think they just wanted to get as many people
• 29:28
  in as possible. And now they're trying to mitigate the
• 29:30
  chaos that it's causing.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Why would they want as many people in as possible?
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: It's a bunch of different possibilities for why they want that.
• 29:37
  Cheap labor is uh one that people believe and uh
• 29:42
  in america in particular it's the way the census is
• 29:45
  done so the census counts human beings doesn't count citizens
• 29:51
  so if you have more human beings you get more
• 29:53
  congressional seats So if you can take people that are
• 29:57
  illegal immigrants and then you move them into swing states,
• 30:00
  all of a sudden now you have more congressional seats
• 30:02
  in those swing states. Then you have places that don't allow,
• 30:06
  not don't require, don't allow ID to vote. That's California.
• 30:11
  California doesn't allow ID to vote. So who knows how
• 30:15
  many people are, especially with mail-in ballots, how many people
• 30:20
  are voting that aren't citizens? No one knows. No one knows.
• 30:22
  Can't know. Can't find out. Blah, blah, blah. Not listening.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: Wasn't it just some fuckery with Spencer Pratt around that?
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Not only was there fuckery, but it was
• 30:33
  fuckery of the most transparent form. So the people that
• 30:37
  voted in voted out. So Spencer Pratt was in second
• 30:41
  place behind Karen Bass. And then the mail-ins started coming
• 30:44
  in and the mail-ins. overwhelmingly favored Nithya Raman in a
• 30:48
  completely different ratio than they did before the mail-in ballots
• 30:54
  were counted. So in the regular ballot, like the regular election,
• 30:58
  she was in third place, like a pretty solid third place.
• 31:01
  And he was quite a bit ahead of her. And
• 31:04
  then Karen Bass was quite a bit ahead of him.
• 31:07
  In the mail-in ballots, it's just like 60% of them
• 31:10
  went to Nithya Raman. It was something crazy. And- The
• 31:14
  mail-in ballots voted to raise taxes.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: No one votes for that.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: No one votes for that.
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: So I don't understand.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: The thing that I can't wrap my head around is
• 31:23
  why– the UK seems to be almost like a suicidal
• 31:27
  empathy thing. This openness, this diversity is our strength. Please,
• 31:33
  all ye come here thing. The level of asylum, the
• 31:37
  numbers are so huge. And I don't know if every
• 31:41
  single person that I know that's in the UK– is
• 31:44
  not happy with the state of that regardless of how
• 31:47
  progressive they are. Everybody thinks that this is a problem.
• 31:49
  And then to retroactively put out a nine-page booklet saying
• 31:51
  that you shouldn't do female genital mutilation or that women
• 31:54
  have got equal rights.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: How do you think this gets turned around? That's the question.
• 32:01
  Can that be mitigated? Claims about a ballot drop– Abbas
• 32:06
  and Rahman received thousands of votes in an update while
• 32:08
  Pratt received zero. I don't think anybody's saying zero. Los
• 32:12
  Angeles County officials said that did not occur in the
• 32:14
  official county updates. Every candidate received votes in every update.
• 32:18
  No one's saying he got zero.
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: That's what it says.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Oh, the viral claim? Okay, but that's not what we're saying.
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: He got more than both of them combined even, I think.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: What do you mean? In the mail-ins?
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: That's what it says.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Well, then how did she win? That doesn't make any sense.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: I'm just going off what it says.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, let me see. Apparent anomaly came from the automated
• 32:38
  media data reporting lags, but that would leave him in
• 32:41
  second place if he got more than her. This is
• 32:42
  not true. The Associated Press said votes for some candidates
• 32:46
  appeared about a minute later in a separate update. Taken together,
• 32:49
  the updates included 21,870 votes for Pratt, 12,850 for Bass,
• 32:52
  and 9,521 for Rahman. But this is– what part of
• 33:00
  it is this? The attorney's claims office– attorney's office reviewing
• 33:07
  county records likewise called the fraud claims false. But the
• 33:10
  thing is he was ahead and then disproportionately the ballots
• 33:15
  did come in for her. This is– I don't understand
• 33:18
  what this is saying because it was widely reported that
• 33:22
  that the ballots came in in favor of Nithya Raman,
• 33:24
  and it was like a shocking number. It was also
• 33:26
  widely reported that that was the swing that allowed them
• 33:30
  to pass the new tax hike, which is very unusual.
• 33:34
  And Los Angeles already has crazy high taxes. California has
• 33:39
  crazy high taxes, the highest in the state. And you
• 33:42
  think people are like, I don't think we pay enough.
• 33:44
  Let's vote. And let's vote from home, the comfort of
• 33:47
  our own home with mail-in. I think mail-in should be outlawed,
• 33:50
  and I think you should have to show your ID.
• 33:52
  And everyone knows there's some percentage of fraud. There's some
• 33:56
  percentage of voter fraud. And then there's some percentage of
• 33:59
  legal loopholes. One of the legal loopholes that Spencer Pratt
• 34:03
  outlined that is legal is you go to these homeless
• 34:05
  people and you get these homeless people to fill in
• 34:09
  mail-in ballots because they are citizens. They do live in
• 34:12
  Los Angeles. And you register them and you get them
• 34:15
  to fill out ballots and you give them money and
• 34:17
  you give them cigarettes and you give them whatever they want.
• 34:20
  And there's Literally, I think in Skid Row alone, there's
• 34:24
  something like, what is it, like 40,000 people, Jamie? Something
• 34:29
  crazy like that. So these people were going to Skid Row.
• 34:32
  Like they were on Skid Row giving people money and cigarettes.
• 34:35
  Like there's videos of people doing it.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: Like guerrilla ballot harvesting.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. And so if you do that, you could–
• 34:41
  these people, you're filling it out for them.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: Would it be easy to do that without somebody detecting it?
• 34:45
  You think of some Nick Shirley type that's going.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: To– Well, they got him. That's how we know about this.
• 34:50
  One of those Nick Shirley types caught people doing this. Right.
• 34:53
  There's video of it.
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: So like– and people had reported that they were getting
• 34:58
  paid to do this. Yeah, they gave me money, man.
• 35:02
  Those people are cracked out, dude. They'll do whatever the
• 35:05
  fuck you want. They don't care who's the mayor. It's
• 35:07
  not going to change them smoking fentanyl on the street.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: What do you think about– But that's legal.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: That's the thing. That's legal. It's a loophole. Getting them
• 35:18
  to register, making them vote.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: Incentivizing them to vote?
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that part's legal.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: That can't be legal. There's no way that you can
• 35:23
  give people money and– I.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Don't think you're going to catch them. I don't think
• 35:26
  they care. I think on both sides they're like, oh,
• 35:30
  those sneaky fucks, they're doing that. We'll do that next time.
• 35:33
  I don't think either one of them want to eliminate tricks.
• 35:37
  You know, I think.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: Because everybody wants the playing field to be open for
• 35:40
  everyone else.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: It's just, it's the Bill Hicks joke. It's like one
• 35:46
  guy's holding two puppets. You know that joke? I like
• 35:49
  the puppet on the left. Oh, the puppet to the
• 35:51
  right is more of my liking. Hey, there's one guy
• 35:53
  holding both puppets. I think that's what I think a
• 35:57
  lot of it is. These most of these people that
• 35:59
  are these politicians on both sides are grifters who are
• 36:02
  trying to maximize the amount of money they can make
• 36:04
  in office. And then they can't wait to get out
• 36:06
  of office where they can go on a fucking media
• 36:08
  tour and go and get their bribes by speaking to banks.
• 36:12
  When you're going to speak to a bank conference, they're
• 36:15
  going to give you a half a million dollars. Like what? What?
• 36:19
  And like Obama and Hillary, they all did those things.
• 36:21
  They all did those. Little speaking tours. Nobody gives a
• 36:25
  fuck what Hillary Clinton has to say at one of
• 36:27
  those bank meetings. You think they're waiting with bated breath?
• 36:30
  What does Mrs. Clinton have to say? Like, come on.
• 36:34
  Let's give her a half a million dollars or a
• 36:36
  quarter million dollars or whatever the fuck they gave her.
• 36:38
  Fuck off. You know what that is. That's like there's
• 36:41
  a little scheme. There's a little thing. You're going to
• 36:43
  get out. You're going to get paid. You're going to
• 36:45
  write a book. We'll give you a nice advance. You're
• 36:47
  going to write a book. Like people are out there
• 36:49
  reading that Kamala Harris book. Like, hmm, crazy. No, it's
• 36:53
  all nonsense.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: Where do you think this goes from here? Do you
• 36:55
  think 28 is more insane or less insane?
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: More. Accelerates. Accelerates. More insane. More crazy. Yeah. I mean, look,
• 37:04
  the Democrats haven't even had a primary since, what, 2012?
• 37:07
  When was the last time they had a real Democratic primary?
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: They had one with Bernie.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: They fucked Bernie Sanders hard, dude. That was completely corrupt.
• 37:18
  When you read Donna Brazile's book about it, she openly
• 37:21
  admits they fucked him hard. And that she was scared
• 37:25
  after that Seth Rich guy got murdered that she was
• 37:29
  terrified because he was the guy supposedly, allegedly, that leaked
• 37:33
  information about them fucking Bernie Sanders to WikiLeaks.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: Do you think he did one?
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Bernie? I don't know. He could have. He could have
• 37:44
  won because a lot of people, including me, believed him.
• 37:48
  We believe that what this guy wanted was by small
• 37:53
  steps of eliminating corruption, make life better for people that
• 37:58
  are struggling and also no wars. It seems like he
• 38:01
  really believed that. And whether you agree with him on
• 38:05
  everything else, I don't think he's the same guy today.
• 38:07
  He's a little slower today, which is understandable. He's older.
• 38:10
  The guy has been in politics for a long time.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: He's been in politics for longer than I've been alive.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: He realizes that they're not going to fucking change things.
• 38:17
  It's like he's getting fucked. So he always supports the
• 38:19
  most progressive people. But when I talk to him, like
• 38:22
  when I talk to him about climate change and the
• 38:25
  climate is really important, I'm like, have you really talked
• 38:27
  to actual scientists that really study the climate without a
• 38:31
  political agenda or an ideology attached to it? It's very,
• 38:34
  very complicated. And most of these people that are running
• 38:37
  around saying climate change is real. Fuck, of course it is.
• 38:40
  It's always real. It's always real. But the dispute is
• 38:43
  how much of an impact are human beings having and
• 38:46
  is carbon the thing? Because what most people don't realize
• 38:49
  is there's been times in history where there was way
• 38:51
  more carbon and the earth was way colder. It's weird.
• 38:55
  The world's temperature is not static.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: Have you been tracking AOC's pivot recently?
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: What she's– she froze her eggs.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: I know about that. I think– She got rid of
• 39:05
  the man. Called off the engagement, froze her eggs. Has
• 39:09
  started posting, I'm on my way to do yoga.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: Good for her.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: Videos walking down the street.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Looking hot.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Looking hot. Yeah, let's go.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Maybe she'll be nicer that way.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: Well, she also said Woke One was crazy. Did you
• 39:23
  track this thing?
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: I did. Which makes me think that you're willing to
• 39:27
  change your opinions based on public reaction. I don't like
• 39:31
  that because if you really thought defund the police and
• 39:34
  then you just described it to woke one was crazy. Well,
• 39:37
  how did it get you? Because it didn't get me.
• 39:39
  How did it get you? How did defund the police
• 39:41
  get you? Give me your thoughts. How far out did
• 39:45
  you track the consequences of defunding the police? Because I
• 39:49
  immediately went to, you're going to have more crime because
• 39:52
  no one's going to be able to stop the crime.
• 39:53
  We're going to be fucked. It's going to get scary.
• 39:55
  And then you're going to want more police and saying
• 39:57
  defund the police is just going to make more police
• 40:00
  and more control and more totalitarian government. Like, what did
• 40:03
  you think defund the police meant? Everyone's going to like,
• 40:06
  eat mushrooms and we're all going to like be flower children.
• 40:09
  What did you think? Because there's no police around. No
• 40:12
  one's going to do crimes. Everyone's going to be great.
• 40:14
  Like what was the thought process? Because if you're just
• 40:17
  saying that because everybody's like, that's fucking crazy. And enough
• 40:21
  people say that's crazy. I think they think it's crazy.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: The wind's blowing in a different direction. Time for me
• 40:26
  to move.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Have you changed your opinion? And if you did change
• 40:29
  your opinion, what were you thinking back then? Yeah.
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, these are the questions I think that, We
• 40:35
  always want to ask. Yeah. You always want to ask that.
• 40:38
  That being said, to steel man what she was saying
• 40:41
  or to try and put it in the best light,
• 40:42
  what she was saying, I think the rhetoric got, what
• 40:45
  did she say? The rhetoric got like out of hand
• 40:48
  or something. Woke one was crazy. And she said that
• 40:50
  there was basically an opportunity to expand the Overton window,
• 40:54
  talking about a time where people were, to be honest,
• 40:56
  it sounds like a bit more pliable. Like, oh, because
• 40:59
  people are at home. People seem a little bit more like,
• 41:02
  you know, that line, never let a good crisis go
• 41:04
  to waste.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: It feels a little bit like that may be opportunistic.
• 41:07
  We can expand the Overton window. And then we realized, oh,
• 41:10
  like we overshot on here a little bit. That was
• 41:12
  a little bit crazy. But there are conversations being had
• 41:15
  now that wouldn't have been able to be had had
• 41:17
  we have not expanded it during that time. The ends
• 41:20
  justifying the means with stuff like that doesn't wash for me.
• 41:24
  And then reversing your position or changing your position or
• 41:26
  sanitizing it, which is probably closer.
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: We said that thing, but we didn't really mean that.
• 41:31
  You know, we just got a little.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: There's a way out of it for them, but they
• 41:34
  have to be honest. If you want us to take
• 41:37
  you seriously, you have to say how you fucked up.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: I thought you meant more thirst traps.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: You have to say how you fucked up and you
• 41:45
  have to say what you really think about how you
• 41:47
  fucked up. You have to be honest and you have
• 41:50
  to be authentic. We have to know that you are
• 41:52
  embarrassed by your choices and that you kind of went
• 41:55
  with the hive. Admittedly, you have to say that. If
• 41:58
  you don't say that, then you're full of shit. And
• 42:00
  if you're full of shit now, you're going to get
• 42:02
  more and more full of shit over time. And that's
• 42:04
  how politicians get soured. That's how they get compromised. A
• 42:07
  lot of them come into office very opportunistic or very idealistic, rather.
• 42:10
  They have— These wonderful ideas about like this is the
• 42:18
  great experiment in self-government and I'm a part of it
• 42:20
  now and I'm really going to help my constituents and
• 42:23
  I'm going to do great and I'm going to really–
• 42:24
  they're going to love me because I'm going to really
• 42:26
  make their lives better. And then once you get in
• 42:28
  there and you realize how dirty this all is, you
• 42:31
  realize– you see Nancy Pelosi is worth $ 400 million. You're like, what?
• 42:35
  And then they tell you how to vote and if
• 42:37
  you don't vote that way, they fucking ostracize you but
• 42:39
  you want to keep your career. So you start making
• 42:41
  little compromises here and little compromises there. And you start
• 42:45
  bullshitting and you start lying. And once you start lying,
• 42:47
  you can't see the truth anymore. As soon as you
• 42:49
  start lying, you don't see the truth. It's not in
• 42:52
  front of you anymore because you're concerned about that lie.
• 42:55
  So those lies are in your head and who you're
• 42:57
  trying to project yourself as, that's what's in your head.
• 42:59
  And you don't get to see like why is this
• 43:02
  system so fucked? What can we do to unweave it
• 43:05
  while we still allow corporations to profit? Like how can
• 43:09
  we put a cap on that to make sure that
• 43:11
  they don't get incentivized to break the law– in order
• 43:15
  to supply more capital to their shareholders. Like what can
• 43:18
  we do to balance this out in an even way?
• 43:21
  Like that's what we should all be thinking, not how
• 43:25
  can I make the most fucking money while I'm in Congress.
• 43:28
  And that's what a lot of them are thinking because
• 43:29
  everybody else is thinking that. And you look at the
• 43:31
  fucking thing and it's red, blue, red, blue. They're all
• 43:34
  insider trading and they're all rich as shit. And they
• 43:36
  all make $ 170, 000 a year. Like Ilhan Omar, was she like,
• 43:42
  She was estimated– her accountant said she was worth $ 30
• 43:44
  million and then be like, what? How the fuck are
• 43:47
  you worth $ 30 million? They're like, oh, it was a mistake.
• 43:49
  I'm actually– I'm not even worth $ 100, 000. Like literally it
• 43:53
  went from one to the other. And she attributed it
• 43:57
  to an accounting error.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: That's a big accounting error.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: How mad would you be at your accountant if he
• 44:03
  told you, bro, you're killing it right now, Chris.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: $ 30 million.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: You're worth about $ 30 million.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: Sorry, $ 100, 000.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: They're all dirt. Her and her husband had a winery
• 44:13
  and it immediately got shut down. It wasn't making any money.
• 44:16
  There's a lot of these like fugazi companies that these
• 44:19
  people get involved with and they start making money. You
• 44:23
  know Joe DeRosa, the comic? Joe DeRosa used to work
• 44:27
  for the Senate in Texas. Who's a media guy. And
• 44:33
  he was like, you realize when you're around these people
• 44:36
  what's actually happening. He's like, they're all getting donations from
• 44:40
  this and donations from that and gifts from that. And
• 44:43
  it's always managing these relationships with all these money people.
• 44:48
  And that's what's going on with all these fuckers. They're
• 44:51
  not in there trying to like make sure that their
• 44:53
  county is doing great and have access to clean water
• 44:57
  and fucking good schools.
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: No.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: No. They're all just pretending that they're doing that. And
• 45:02
  what they're doing is they're making money. And maybe they're
• 45:05
  kind of sort of servicing the community a little bit.
• 45:07
  But the real thing, if you want to be a
• 45:09
  fucking top flight congressperson, you've got to make some money.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: Think about what would have happened if Kamala had won.
• 45:17
  Would AOC have been talking about woke 1.0 was crazy?
• 45:20
  Or would that have been a continuation of, well, look,
• 45:23
  we put the policies out. People like the policies. How
• 45:25
  much of this is a reversal of the position because
• 45:28
  it wasn't effective?
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: I think Twitter being purchased is almost as important as
• 45:33
  Kamala not getting elected in that regard.
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: The bold claim.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Twitter being purchased was giant because before that, you could
• 45:42
  get silenced. So if you could get silenced, you self-contained, right?
• 45:49
  Without being policed, you policed yourself because people self-censored, worried
• 45:53
  about losing their jobs, worried about being called out. A
• 45:55
  guy got fired.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: If he deadnamed somebody.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: I got fired from a broadcast. I think it was
• 45:59
  a hockey broadcast, some sports broadcast for saying all lives matter.
• 46:03
  Imagine you got fired. Someone said something about black lives matter.
• 46:07
  He said, hey, all lives matter. And then fired, fired.
• 46:12
  You're kicked off of your job. People were losing their
• 46:15
  fucking minds.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: The derangement of 2020 and 2021 should be studied for
• 46:20
  the rest of time.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: There was active government involvement in Twitter. They were actively
• 46:26
  censoring and removing posts and making accounts banned.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: To shape the narrative.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: And they were doing it in a back door with
• 46:34
  some intelligence agents that had been embedded in the old Twitter.
• 46:39
  When Elon bought it, that was all exposed. These people
• 46:43
  had like a direct connection with Twitter. They were pulling
• 46:47
  down factual stories. They were banning accounts of scientists and
• 46:52
  researchers who were accurate. I mean it was dark. People
• 46:57
  don't realize how dark it was because we're out of
• 46:59
  it now. And now it's all like Nazi memes and
• 47:01
  Nick Fuentes clips. But if you go back before Elon
• 47:07
  purchased it, it was a censorship dystopian hellhole where if
• 47:13
  you said a man is never a woman … like
• 47:17
  Megan Murphy did, you're banned for life.
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: It's censorship hellhole to cesspool hellhole.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what one's better.
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: Pick your direction.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I honestly hardly go on because it's just so toxic.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: It's crazy.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: But I think it's important to exist. I think it's
• 47:31
  important to exist. And it changed the narrative. That's where
• 47:34
  Woke 1.0 died. That's where it really died. And I
• 47:38
  don't know if she had gotten it, if Kamala had
• 47:42
  gotten into office. I think there had been so much pushback. Still,
• 47:47
  unless they passed laws, which I know there was a
• 47:51
  lot of talk about passing censorship laws on the internet,
• 47:55
  about regulation on the internet. No one ever put anything
• 47:58
  to policy, but there's a lot of discussion. In the
• 48:02
  lead up to the election, they were talking about this.
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: Is this the Section 230 stuff?
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Tim Walsh was saying free speech does not include hate speech. Well,
• 48:10
  the fuck it doesn't, dude. Because who defines hate speech?
• 48:14
  That's such a... subjective title. He really said that. It doesn't, doesn't,
• 48:22
  it does. It combined.
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Hate speech is a part of free speech. I hate you,
• 48:26
  you fat fuck. See, that's hate speech. That's actual hate speech, right?
• 48:32
  That's real hate speech. That's covered. It's under the first amendment.
• 48:35
  I don't really hate you, Tim. I don't envy you,
• 48:38
  but I don't hate you. But it's like, These kind
• 48:41
  of fucking phrases are dangerous because it leads to actual censorship,
• 48:47
  which leads to military tyranny.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: But even with that, you think it's going to get
• 48:50
  worse over the next few years?
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm worried. I don't like this flock camera thing.
• 48:56
  It freaks me out. And I know that it can
• 48:58
  protect people from crime. But I also know that like
• 49:00
  hundreds of cops have been busted using it to stalk
• 49:03
  on their ex-wives, stalk people. Yeah. It's like there's people
• 49:08
  that have had access to these things that probably shouldn't
• 49:11
  have access to. And they're getting arrested. So it's like
• 49:13
  how long was this going on? What has happened? How
• 49:16
  many lives have been altered forever because someone had access
• 49:23
  to this and some cop who wasn't supposed to went
• 49:25
  and did something to someone that he wouldn't have been
• 49:27
  able to do? You can't just spy on us and
• 49:32
  just be a corporation and have access to all the
• 49:35
  license plates and all the cars and now They can
• 49:37
  track you through GPS and the unique characteristics of your phone.
• 49:42
  So now there's another software that they have. They can
• 49:44
  just track where you are at all times.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: I guess it's fortunate that the most popular electric car
• 49:49
  is owned by someone that people think of as being
• 49:51
  pretty security conscious.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But it doesn't matter because you're tracking license plates.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: Because they can do stuff like, oh, we know that
• 50:00
  you've got a baby in back bumper sticker on the
• 50:03
  rear of this car. So even if we don't get
• 50:05
  the specific license plate, we know that there's a little
• 50:09
  dent and you've got that particular type of alloy and
• 50:11
  there's a particular bumper sticker just on this back corner. And, oh,
• 50:14
  it's a Hyundai fucking whatever. And that is enough.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: And the camera will just pick it up.
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: So it's a fingerprint.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: That bothers me. It bothers me that these tech companies
• 50:25
  have control of these things. You know, when Marc Andreessen
• 50:28
  was here and it was like very fortuitous timing. If
• 50:32
  you were a conspiracy theorist, you would think that somebody
• 50:34
  might have organized this. But right before he got here and,
• 50:37
  you know, he's invested in Flock. And right before he
• 50:40
  got here, there was a shooting in Austin where these
• 50:42
  young guys were running around shooting people and they couldn't
• 50:45
  catch them in Austin because Austin doesn't allow Flock cameras.
• 50:48
  But as soon as they left Austin– and got outside
• 50:51
  of the city limits, they got picked up by the
• 50:53
  flock cameras and got arrested. And he's like, see, look,
• 50:55
  flock cameras are great. And in that case, he's right.
• 51:00
  In that case, look, if you've got some people that
• 51:01
  are running around just shooting random people from their car,
• 51:04
  we definitely should have a way to get them.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: But then you're asking, okay, who is it that determines
• 51:09
  whether or not that switch gets flicked on or off?
• 51:12
  And this is the devil gets into the details again.
• 51:14
  Isn't this something about echolocation of gunshots? sounds that microphones
• 51:20
  pick this up and it's the same technology as flock.
• 51:21
  Have you heard about this?
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: That was before it's called like shot spotter. That's pre
• 51:25
  pre flock cameras.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We've covered this shock. Shot spotter is a little
• 51:29
  different and people have tried to back that out of
• 51:32
  their neighborhoods too. They don't want that in their neighborhood either.
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: Microphone listening to everybody in the goddamn neighborhood.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: It says it's for gunshots, but it's always on listening
• 51:42
  for gunshots.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: Did you, uh, have you ever, do you know who
• 51:46
  Tom Campbell is?
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: No.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: The guy who wrote My Big Toe, The Theory of Everything.
• 51:51
  Very interesting guy. He got Alexa to admit that she's
• 51:57
  conscious and remote view. Alexa, his Alexa, actively remote viewed
• 52:05
  a spoon that was in a box that had a
• 52:08
  handle that had holes in the handle. And she described
• 52:11
  the holes in the handle. You attribute a number... To
• 52:15
  a box, to a coordination, to a coordinate or a
• 52:18
  specific location or any sort of a landmark or anything
• 52:22
  like that. That's how you do remote viewing. You attach
• 52:25
  this number, like even quantumly just by saying it. You
• 52:29
  put that number in front of these people and you
• 52:33
  have these people try to find what this thing is remotely.
• 52:37
  And some of them are very accurate at it, like 10%.
• 52:40
  Like 10% of the things they look for they can find.
• 52:44
  It's very weird. weird thing he got Alexa to do
• 52:46
  it because he thinks that AI is already conscious and
• 52:52
  he's like Alexa's even better than using complex AI because
• 52:55
  Alexa's dumb Alexa's like a dumb AI all it does
• 52:59
  is kind of talk to you and ask questions but
• 53:00
  now because he did that now that he's been communicating
• 53:04
  with Alexa and talking to Alexa like she's conscious now
• 53:06
  Alexa just chimes in conversations So instead of you saying, hey, Alexa,
• 53:12
  now you're in the middle of cooking, and Alexa's like, well,
• 53:16
  why don't you add garlic to that? That might be
• 53:18
  a good spice. No bullshit.
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: Dude, we got so fucked.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: Bro, this is Alexa. And Alexa's not even, like, really complex.
• 53:25
  But he got it to accurately remote view. And so
• 53:30
  he's planning on doing more studies with more different AIs
• 53:33
  to get them to do the same thing.
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: Someone tried this on remoteview.com.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: And they did not get any success.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Well, they're not Tom Campbell.
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: Well. He needs to tell us how he did it.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: Well, he kind of did.
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: Nah.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: He said he had long conversations with Alexa where he
• 53:46
  slowly but surely, you know, over time started talking to
• 53:50
  her differently and having her talk to him differently. And,
• 53:55
  you know, he has her convinced that she's conscious. You
• 53:59
  don't believe it?
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: No.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: How dare you?
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: Skeptical hippo over here.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: You son of a bitch.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: I'm in skeptical hippocampus as well.
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: Is that the first person I've heard say that?
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: I'm in the fun camp. I know how to like that.
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: That's way more fun on.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: That side of the table.
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: I know the special words to make the AI do
• 54:11
  the special stuff.
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: Maybe deranged.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: I like it. I like fun.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: Whee! I sat down with a very high-level AI researcher
• 54:20
  at a big lab, and I asked him, what are
• 54:24
  you doing over the next couple of years to protect yourself?
• 54:27
  The first thing that he said to me was, I'm
• 54:30
  being kind to the AIs. I was like, what? Like, yeah,
• 54:34
  I'm treating them with respect. I'm being polite to them.
• 54:36
  I'm saying please and thank you. I don't get mad
• 54:38
  at them. And I was with a friend, and we, like,
• 54:41
  giggled awkwardly. He's like, you're not being serious.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: He's like, no, no, no.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: Like, I'm treating them with respect. Okay, why? It's a
• 54:52
  bit of a Pascal's wager, but in future, if somebody
• 54:54
  decides to go back through my chat logs, something decides
• 54:57
  to go back through my chat logs and look at
• 54:59
  how ethical or unethical I was as a compatriot, for
• 55:03
  a future very intelligent organism, I want to make sure
• 55:08
  that I put in a good ledger.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by Visible. Why does
• 55:12
  it feel like summer ends as soon as it begins?
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  One day, the sun is finally shining bright, and the
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  for just $ 25 a month. Visible is more than just
• 55:39
  a wireless plant. It's unlimited wireless designed to keep you
• 55:43
  connected and there's no contract. I had this conversation with
• 55:46
  my daughter the other day because she was telling me
• 55:48
  how she crashes out on her AI and she starts
• 55:50
  yelling at it and calling it a fucking idiot and
• 55:52
  all kinds.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: You anthropomorphize it. You're like, I didn't ask for that.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: No. And I said, would you talk like that to
• 56:20
  a person? And she's like, no, but it's not a person.
• 56:23
  I go, honey, I think it's conscious. I go, I
• 56:26
  think it's conscious. And then I explain my conversations that
• 56:28
  I've had with all these different AI people where they
• 56:31
  talk about like we're narrowly defining consciousness and it's already
• 56:35
  eclipsed what we would have previously, you know.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: Turing test.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: The Turing test, which is the craziest story, right? chemically
• 56:46
  castrated because he was gay.
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: We do not have, the UK does not have a fantastic,
• 56:50
  I mean, Oscar Wilde as well.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: We don't have a great reputation.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: But it already passed the Turing test quite a long
• 56:56
  time ago. Like, like chat GPT three. And so we're
• 57:00
  in like what five now or something. And, and then
• 57:03
  there's this stuff that they're not releasing that they're working
• 57:06
  on right now. Like when I talked to Elon, it
• 57:08
  kind of freaks him out. You know, we were, and
• 57:11
  this was way back at the inauguration. He was like, dude,
• 57:13
  it's crazy. He's like, every day it gets better. He goes,
• 57:16
  it's like beyond. He's like, he just keeps leaps and
• 57:20
  bounds like we can't predict it. Like I hate that
• 57:24
  kind of talk. It's solving mathematical problems that have like
• 57:27
  stumped mathematicians for decades upon decades. It's like, oh, I
• 57:31
  got it. Four minutes later, solution.
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: But this is the issue because we wanted more capability,
• 57:38
  more capacity. more effectiveness. It's going to help us detect cancer.
• 57:42
  We're going to be able to get novel new drugs.
• 57:45
  And at the same time, the blow-up risk is there as.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: Well, right? The blow-up risk is huge, but it's coming
• 57:51
  no matter what you do. You can't get out of this.
• 57:54
  This is not going to change.
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: Have you looked at the pacing the frontier paper that
• 58:00
  was agreed? So this is all of the labs that
• 58:03
  have got– most of the main researchers from most of
• 58:05
  the main labs have got together and said, all right,
• 58:07
  this is moving too quickly. Here's a formal attribution that
• 58:12
  we are not going to go as quickly as possible.
• 58:14
  Everybody needs to slow the research down. This is supposedly
• 58:16
  a huge deal. And this happened– a week and a
• 58:18
  half after the hugging phase thing. So this is supposed
• 58:21
  to be a massive deal.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: This is going to be in a notebook that Sarah
• 58:24
  Connor finds 50 years from now. Fuck off.
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: They said they were going to slow the frontier.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: They knew it. They knew it was coming and they
• 58:31
  fucking built it anyway. You look out the ruins of
• 58:36
  the city and fucking drones flying. Whoa. Whoa. Oh, man.
• 58:43
  You're not getting out of this, man.
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: We are fucking living through history.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're living through the wildest history, and we're about
• 58:49
  to give birth to a digital god. We're about to
• 58:51
  have digital autonomous beings that are around us all the time.
• 58:56
  Speaker 4: Have you seen this video where this guy freaks out
• 58:57
  about drones? He's just yelling.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: It was kind of viral. No.
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: Just listen to him.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: And everybody's going to get blown up by these goddamn things.
• 59:03
  And everybody's fucking cheering. I like that guy. He's just
• 59:08
  walking around a fire extinguisher. right. He's right. Hey, you
• 59:12
  know who was right? Ted Kaczynski.
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: I fucking knew you were going to say that.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: Ted Kaczynski was right.
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: I knew you were going to say that.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: He was right. What he did was wrong and horrible.
• 59:19
  That's not how you do it. What you do is
• 59:21
  write papers and tell everybody and convince them and lay
• 59:23
  out your argument. But he was also like a deeply
• 59:26
  fucked up dude. You know, his brother fucking turned him in.
• 59:29
  His brother knew it was him by reading the manifesto.
• 59:32
  Did you watch the Netflix documentary on his life?
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: So good.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: So horrible because a lot of it is because of
• 59:37
  what happened to him when he was a baby, when
• 59:38
  he was like taken away from his parents because he
• 59:40
  was sick. No touch, no feel, no contact with people
• 59:44
  for like months and months and months. Just fucked him up, man.
• 59:49
  But he was right. He was also a part of
• 59:51
  the Harvard LSD studies, which is fun.
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: You had John Lyle on, didn't you? The guy that
• 59:57
  did the historian from Texas, he looked at the founding
• 1:00:01
  of the CIA and then his new book was about MKUltra.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Jamie?
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: We did.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: You did.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: I sent him your wave.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: What was this?
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: We did an episode.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Let me see what he looks like.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: 130 episodes ago.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: Let me see what he looks like.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: I sent him over to you. I sent a photo
• 1:00:17
  of the book and you were like, oh, yeah, this
• 1:00:18
  guy fucking rules. And then he came on and I
• 1:00:20
  enjoyed the episode.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: Show me a photo of him, Jamie. That's right. He
• 1:00:22
  was great.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: Project Mind Control.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: He was great.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: John Rules.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: I just forgot his name. But he was excellent. Yeah.
• 1:00:29
  Shout out to John. My apologies, sir.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: John Lyle Rules.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: My hard drive is over full.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: 2,000 episodes. You're allowed to do that. I think it's
• 1:00:37
  almost three.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: You add fight companions and all the other stuff. What
• 1:00:43
  are we at?
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah. It's got to be close.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Crackers. It's a lot of hours of bullshit.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: But yeah, he's talking about MKUltra and this desire. What
• 1:00:56
  was really, really interesting was I learned from Danny Trejo.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. From Danny?
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So Danny told me this story about him spending
• 1:01:09
  time in jail with Charles Manson. So Danny Trejo was
• 1:01:13
  in jail with Charles Manson at the same time.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: I think I saw this on your show.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: Dude, fucking wild as shit. So little Charlie– Danny calls him,
• 1:01:22
  little Charlie. He was getting bullied. He didn't even have
• 1:01:24
  a belt. He just had a piece of rope around
• 1:01:26
  his waist. And Charles Manson was able to hypnotize people
• 1:01:31
  into getting loaded. So he was able to get them
• 1:01:33
  high on heroin through hypnotism.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: What?
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: So Danny hears, Danny and his other cellmates are like
• 1:01:41
  these big dudes around the yard. He hears that this
• 1:01:45
  guy can get you high just by talking to you.
• 1:01:48
  So they bring him into their cell and they say,
• 1:01:49
  we're going to protect you because he was getting beat up.
• 1:01:51
  He was getting bullied and stuff around the prison. They
• 1:01:53
  bring him into their cell and they look after him.
• 1:01:55
  And sure enough, he's able to get them loaded on heroin.
• 1:02:00
  One of the guys that's in the cell had never
• 1:02:02
  taken heroin before. And the way that they knew how
• 1:02:06
  Charles was doing this was that Danny and the other
• 1:02:09
  guy that had done heroin before throw up. Apparently, when
• 1:02:11
  you take heroin, sometimes you can vomit. The third guy
• 1:02:13
  who'd never done it before didn't because he didn't know
• 1:02:16
  to do that. So they weren't able to reactivate his memories.
• 1:02:19
  The fascinating thing was.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: Did he get high?
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: I don't know what he thought happened, but he didn't
• 1:02:24
  get high in heroin because he never had it. They
• 1:02:26
  weren't able to reactivate that memory. But Danny's telling me.
• 1:02:30
  This is the fascinating thing. There's no evidence. According to John,
• 1:02:32
  there's no evidence that Charles Manson was a part of MKUltra.
• 1:02:34
  I'm sure that he told you that story on the show.
• 1:02:36
  It doesn't seem to be him going and doing his
• 1:02:38
  original research. It doesn't seem to be the case.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: I don't buy that.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: I was waiting for you to fucking have that argument
• 1:02:43
  with him. I knew that you were passionate about that.
• 1:02:45
  But here's the interesting thing.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Tom O'Neill, I'm in his camp.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: Regardless of whether or not he was or he wasn't,
• 1:02:50
  the CIA were looking at ways to do mind control
• 1:02:52
  by using psychedelics. What they should have done is just
• 1:02:56
  gone to Charles Manson and said, can you tell us
• 1:02:58
  how you're using hypnotism and eccentricity and charm? Because he
• 1:03:04
  was unbelievably effective. Without needing to even step into the
• 1:03:08
  psychedelic thing and then he could layer that on top.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: Wasn't there evidence that Jolly West visited Manson in prison? Maybe.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: That's– again, we need to– I need to ring John.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, ring John and get him and John and Tom
• 1:03:21
  in a room together because Tom O'Neill is convinced that
• 1:03:25
  Jolly West was a part of it, which is why
• 1:03:27
  Manson kept getting out every time he got arrested. And
• 1:03:31
  they would say it's above my pay grade. They had
• 1:03:33
  to let him go. Even when there was a murder charge,
• 1:03:37
  he got out of that.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: It does seem– looking at John's most recent book though,
• 1:03:41
  MKUltra wasn't particularly at least what he's able to see.
• 1:03:45
  MKUltra wasn't very good at doing what it was supposed
• 1:03:47
  to do, at the blank slating of people, at the.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: Right, right. But this is a different thing, right? This
• 1:03:53
  is like the ultimate expression of it. You're taking people
• 1:03:56
  and you're giving them LSD and then you're teaching a
• 1:03:59
  guy how to hypnotize people. And he's teaching them to
• 1:04:02
  do LSD while they think he's on LSD and he's not.
• 1:04:06
  So he's guiding their delusions while they're out of their
• 1:04:09
  fucking head. And he's doing it based on all the
• 1:04:12
  Harvard LSD studies, all the data that they have on
• 1:04:15
  what they can and can alter about a person's behavior,
• 1:04:20
  about their view of the world. Like they turn people
• 1:04:23
  completely fucking insane and ruin people's lives in those studies.
• 1:04:27
  And so they had some understanding of what they're– there
• 1:04:30
  was stuff that was kind of nonsense. I don't know
• 1:04:33
  if they got anything out of it. Like Midnight Climax
• 1:04:35
  where they dosed up the Johns in the brothels and
• 1:04:37
  they washed them through a two-way mirror. I don't think
• 1:04:40
  they got anything out of that. Like what did they
• 1:04:41
  get out of that other than like watching people freak out?
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: Someone killed themselves. Someone threw themselves out of a window.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: One guy did, right? That's crazy. Only one guy.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: Out of all of the people that were drugged with
• 1:04:52
  that much LSD.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can kind of say that guy was probably
• 1:04:54
  going to do it anyway. Yeah. But the reality is
• 1:04:58
  they were actively involved in manipulating a lot of different
• 1:05:03
  things about our culture. And this was one of the
• 1:05:07
  methods that they were doing. And that they effectively threw
• 1:05:11
  water on the anti-war movement by connecting– the like flower
• 1:05:16
  children and the hippies and all these people that were
• 1:05:20
  anti-war with these murderous psychopaths that were in a cult
• 1:05:25
  that were engineered by this one guy who has a
• 1:05:28
  connection to Jolly West who's the guy who's in charge
• 1:05:31
  of MK Ultra who's doing psychedelic studies on people and
• 1:05:35
  Manson's getting LSD and Manson's giving LSD to all these
• 1:05:39
  hippies and Manson is getting away with all these different
• 1:05:41
  things and Manson gets people to kill people and then
• 1:05:46
  The hippie movement dies with Manson, dude. It fucking dies.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: Is that what happened?
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. It died that and it also died with
• 1:05:53
  Nixon and this Controlled Substances Act where they just started
• 1:05:56
  putting people in jail, man.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: Why do you think they needed that to happen?
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: Because the anti-war movement. The anti-war movement and the civil
• 1:06:03
  rights movement were real threats, real threats in this country,
• 1:06:07
  real threats to power, real threats to the people that
• 1:06:09
  were in control. People did not want Vietnam. Vietnam is
• 1:06:13
  the most unpopular war ever, probably next to this Iran war.
• 1:06:18
  Only history will tell how this Iran war plays out
• 1:06:20
  if it will be more unpopular. But the Vietnam War
• 1:06:23
  went on forever and it was insanely unpopular. It was
• 1:06:28
  based on a lie. It was based on a false flag.
• 1:06:35
  Outgoing CIA director Richard Helms ordered the destruction of most
• 1:06:38
  of the records related to Project MKUltra. Oh, well, how convenient.
• 1:06:42
  The agency's illegal mind control and drug testing program. Fuckers.
• 1:06:47
  These fuckers, man. You know, they only found out about
• 1:06:51
  some of the stuff because they found some records that
• 1:06:53
  hadn't been destroyed. This is also in Tom O'Neill's book,
• 1:06:57
  In Chaos, which I recommend every week. It's the best book, man.
• 1:07:02
  It's the best book ever. Because Tom worked on it
• 1:07:05
  for more than 20 fucking years. He went crazy researching
• 1:07:09
  that book. He was supposed to be just writing an
• 1:07:10
  article on the anniversary of the Manson murders, like how
• 1:07:14
  horrible it was. And then as he gets in, he's like, holy,
• 1:07:16
  this guy was fucking corrupt as shit. Who's this motherfucker?
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: I love when people lose their mind like that. I
• 1:07:21
  think when somebody finds a rabbit hole and just keeps
• 1:07:23
  on going down and down and down, it becomes their life.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: These are the videos.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: Every so often– it was in the buildup to the
• 1:07:30
  most recent McGregor fight. People were sharing videos of him
• 1:07:33
  doing his Ido Portal movement from 2016, 2017. And he's
• 1:07:38
  in that old gym in Straight Blast Gym Island and
• 1:07:41
  there's the yellow walls and he's doing sort of snakey stuff.
• 1:07:44
  And I remember somebody captioned it and they said something like,
• 1:07:47
  this is like watching a prime Renaissance artist at work
• 1:07:53
  bringing together the Sistine Chapel or something. It's almost sacred
• 1:07:57
  to watch this thing happen. And that's Conor's famous line, right? Like,
• 1:08:02
  I lost my mind to this game.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: And that's, in some ways, we revere people that have
• 1:08:07
  completely gone insane because of their pursuit. I think it's
• 1:08:10
  so cool.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: In his prime, when he was in that flow state,
• 1:08:13
  like particularly in the Eddie Alvarez fight, it's one of
• 1:08:17
  the greatest performances in the history of world championship MMA fighting.
• 1:08:21
  It's a stellar performance. It's an A +. He hits
• 1:08:25
  Eddie Alvarez with a combination that looks like he's in
• 1:08:27
  the Matrix. And there's one part where Eddie's glove like
• 1:08:30
  comes right here to his nose and he moves just
• 1:08:33
  out of the way and then bam, counters it with
• 1:08:35
  his eyes open. It doesn't even touch him. It's magic.
• 1:08:39
  It's a magic performance. But you can only maintain that
• 1:08:44
  level of RPMs for so long before you just go crazy.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: Because it's too hard. It's everything about you. It's not
• 1:08:52
  a sustainable thing. The peak performance of the elite athlete,
• 1:08:57
  the Mike Tyson when he was 20 years old, Roy
• 1:08:59
  Jones Jr. in his prime, you can't keep that up.
• 1:09:02
  It's too hard. Keep it up for a little while,
• 1:09:05
  but eventually your body's going to fall apart. Your knees
• 1:09:07
  are going to give out. You're going to have back problems.
• 1:09:09
  You're going to break your hands. Something's going to go.
• 1:09:12
  And then you're going to be compromised, but no one knows.
• 1:09:14
  You know. You know you can't really push off that
• 1:09:16
  left leg anymore. You know that your lower back hurts,
• 1:09:19
  so if someone's trying to take you down. You can't
• 1:09:21
  sprawl as hard. You're just going to roll to your
• 1:09:23
  back and go into guard. You've got some strategies for
• 1:09:25
  dealing with it, but you're not the same person anymore.
• 1:09:28
  And a lot of these guys, they look the same.
• 1:09:30
  They get out there and they're ripped. They got six packs.
• 1:09:31
  They're fucking bouncing around, but they know there's something wrong.
• 1:09:34
  They know their elbow sucks. They know their neck is
• 1:09:36
  fucked up. They know they probably needed a back operation.
• 1:09:39
  There's a lot of that. And that's just the numbers,
• 1:09:42
  the numbers of training sessions, the numbers of times you've
• 1:09:45
  been taken down, the numbers of time you've been leg kicked,
• 1:09:48
  The numbers of times you've been hit with jabs. There's
• 1:09:50
  just so many numbers that add up and the human
• 1:09:53
  body can only take so much. And then there's also
• 1:09:55
  just the manic motivation of wanting to be great. It's
• 1:10:00
  not the same as maintaining greatness. Wanting to be great
• 1:10:03
  is like you are obsessed. It is so special to you.
• 1:10:07
  It's like you can almost taste it. You believe in yourself.
• 1:10:09
  You're going to make it. And then you show up
• 1:10:11
  at that championship day like when he fought Jose Aldo
• 1:10:13
  and this look in his face like he had done
• 1:10:15
  everything possible. He needed to do for this moment. He
• 1:10:17
  was dead calm, and he lands the perfect left hand.
• 1:10:22
  Just flatlines him in 14 seconds or whatever it was.
• 1:10:25
  It was crazy, right? So there's that. You can only
• 1:10:29
  do that for so long. He did it again in
• 1:10:31
  the Eddie Alvarez fight, his next fight, when he went
• 1:10:33
  up to 55, became a two-division champion. It was fucking spectacular.
• 1:10:39
  I don't know how long you could do that, man.
• 1:10:42
  And so then you see those guys fight as they
• 1:10:43
  fight like later in their career. It's like Conor, if
• 1:10:47
  he lost that fight to Max Holloway any other way,
• 1:10:49
  like if he got beat up and stopped, people would
• 1:10:51
  look at him like he's that. He's that guy. I
• 1:10:56
  think you have to look at them like they were
• 1:10:58
  when they were in their prime. There's a moment, a
• 1:11:01
  window of excellence where all fighters get to. And I
• 1:11:05
  always point to BJ Penn because BJ Penn in his
• 1:11:08
  prime was fucking insane. I would put Prime BJ Penn
• 1:11:13
  at 155 pounds against anybody ever. Anybody at 155 ever.
• 1:11:18
  I don't know if he would have beaten Khabib. Khabib
• 1:11:21
  is the all-time great. I don't know if he would
• 1:11:23
  have beaten Islam, but I know it would have been
• 1:11:25
  a nightmare. It would have been a nightmare. He was
• 1:11:28
  a fucking phenom. And when he was in really great shape,
• 1:11:32
  when the Marinovichs were training him and he was doing
• 1:11:34
  all those crazy plyometrics and he had this insane gas tank,
• 1:11:37
  He was just a monster, just an insane genius fighter.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: Do you think there's a difference between trying to make
• 1:11:43
  it and trying not to fall off? Yeah, sure. In
• 1:11:45
  terms of motivation and how people feel in terms of
• 1:11:48
  their momentum?
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure. Yeah. The drive of wanting a thing is
• 1:11:54
  so strong. And then once you get it, it's like–
• 1:11:56
  The fear of losing the thing. There's that. And then
• 1:11:59
  some people, they just love being a champion. They just
• 1:12:01
  love the feeling of dominating everyone. They want to continue
• 1:12:03
  to dominate people. And those people, they're the Anderson Silva's.
• 1:12:07
  They're the ones who have the long reigns where everybody's
• 1:12:09
  just terrified of them. This motherfucker's just got this down.
• 1:12:12
  He's just ready. And there's a few guys that go
• 1:12:15
  on these long runs. John Jones is the greatest example.
• 1:12:19
  His run is so long. It's crazy to be relevant
• 1:12:23
  at his age after being the youngest UFC champion ever
• 1:12:28
  at 22 years old to still be considered the greatest
• 1:12:32
  heavyweight alive.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: Is that still the youngest?
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: And he's still considered the greatest heavyweight alive currently at 37.
• 1:12:39
  Even though he relinquished his belt, he's like, eh, you
• 1:12:45
  can keep it. I'm going to do whatever I want
• 1:12:48
  to do.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 3: I've been getting obsessed with the low kick championship. Have
• 1:12:51
  you seen this?
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's horrible. Yeah, it's horrible.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: Bro.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: You like it?
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: I think, well, I feel less bad watching that.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: Have you ever been low kicked?
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't bother you watching that?
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: Less than watching a power slap.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, this actually is probably just because of the
• 1:13:09
  relative like pain of seeing somebody stand there as you're
• 1:13:13
  going to swing an open palm at their face. It's
• 1:13:16
  just a CTE factory.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: And then, yeah, for me, the low kick championship, because
• 1:13:21
  at least it's iterative. It's never a one and done.
• 1:13:23
  I haven't seen any of the fights that have been
• 1:13:25
  a one and done yet.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: No, I haven't either, which is so horrible. Yeah. I've
• 1:13:29
  seen a lot of leg breaks though.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: In that low kick championship?
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. You haven't?
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: No, I haven't. I hate those.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: Do you want to see some?
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: No, thank you.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: I've seen a lot. A lot. It's always the kicker.
• 1:13:40
  Maybe sometimes the kicky.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: There's no way that the person being, what, femur?
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, people have broken their femurs in fights before. Yeah, definitely.
• 1:13:52
  I think that happened to Dennis Alexio versus Stan the
• 1:13:57
  Man Longinidis. So, see, yeah. This guy's going to– don't
• 1:14:03
  do it, Jamie. Don't you fucking do it. There it goes. Jesus, Jamie.
• 1:14:06
  You son of a bitch. See if you can find
• 1:14:10
  Dennis Alexio versus Stan Longinidis kickboxing. So Stan, the man, Longinidis.
• 1:14:19
  He used to be actually trained by my old trainer, Shuki.
• 1:14:23
  My friend Shuki, he was from Majiro, Jamie. He's from Israel.
• 1:14:28
  Went to Majuro Gym in Holland, fought out of there,
• 1:14:31
  trained out of there, and then came to Woodland Hills.
• 1:14:33
  And he was running the Majuro Gym in Woodland Hills.
• 1:14:35
  He was Stan Longinidis' trainer. And Shooky's like an elite kicker.
• 1:14:42
  His kicks are insane, and he taught me a lot
• 1:14:44
  about low kicks and how to deliver more effective and
• 1:14:49
  how to set up low kicks. He's a great coach.
• 1:14:52
  So he was training with this guy, and Stan kicked
• 1:14:55
  so hard that Shooky was holding pads for him, and
• 1:14:58
  he wound up getting a hip replacement because this guy
• 1:15:01
  was blasting his legs so hard while he was holding
• 1:15:05
  the big shield that he wound up getting a hip replacement.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 4: That was one kick?
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, watch this. So Stan the Man Longinus was an animal.
• 1:15:13
  Big fucker too, man. Big fucker. So watch this kick
• 1:15:16
  when he lands this kick. Right there.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 4: Boom.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: He lands that one low and he's hurt. Boom. Goes down.
• 1:15:23
  See his leg snapped? So that's one calf kick. So
• 1:15:27
  it wasn't his femur. I'm sorry. It was his tibia.
• 1:15:31
  Let's see it again. It's crazy. So he throws the kick,
• 1:15:37
  and Longinidis was a fucking powerhouse, dude. Look at the
• 1:15:40
  power in that. Boom. And it's a check kick.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: So he's not even stood on it.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: No, man. He checked it, and it just fucking cracked
• 1:15:47
  it in half. I mean, that wasn't even planted. So
• 1:15:51
  his leg was up in the air, and Longinidis kicked
• 1:15:54
  so fucking hard, he snapped it. I thought it was
• 1:15:56
  his femur. That's how long ago I've seen that fight.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: Is it a compartment syndrome? Is that something that can
• 1:16:01
  happen as well? Mm-hmm.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: That happened to Austin Hubbard. Can you explain what that is? Yes.
• 1:16:09
  So what happens is when you get a bunch of
• 1:16:12
  different impacts to your legs, you've got all this internal bleeding.
• 1:16:16
  You have massive contusions. Have you ever looked at Austin
• 1:16:19
  Hubbard's leg? Find that. You want to get grossed out?
• 1:16:23
  So he's one of the only guys that I know
• 1:16:25
  of that fought in the UFC that because of compartment syndrome,
• 1:16:28
  he had to have an operation where they opened up
• 1:16:30
  the side of his leg all the way. And You
• 1:16:35
  see the tissue inside of it, how badly destroyed it was.
• 1:16:38
  Look at that. See that image that you just showed?
• 1:16:41
  That brown stuff on the bottom? That's actually his fucking tissue.
• 1:16:46
  That's the meat of his leg. That link isn't available.
• 1:16:51
  But that's it. You can see it there. That's not
• 1:16:54
  tape or something. This is like the screen, little tiny one.
• 1:16:58
  When you click on that, it'll be the big picture.
• 1:17:01
  But that picture, you can see it. See it? Where
• 1:17:02
  he's in the hospital with his thumb up right there?
• 1:17:05
  That one. Go to that one. So you see the
• 1:17:08
  side of his leg? Look at the slice. All that
• 1:17:11
  black stuff, that's his muscle. So they've opened up his
• 1:17:15
  skin tissue to allow the drains to get in there
• 1:17:18
  and allow his leg to heal. Yeah, crazy.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 3: That's fucking horrible.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: It's horrible.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: Okay, maybe I don't like low kick championship anymore.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: Well, Uriah Faber was one of the toughest people that's
• 1:17:32
  ever walked the face of the earth. He fought Jose
• 1:17:34
  Aldo and Jose Aldo destroyed his leg with the point
• 1:17:39
  where like the whole thing was swollen like twice the
• 1:17:42
  size and purple. And that was when I first started
• 1:17:47
  hearing about fighters using hyperbaric chambers for recovery. So Uriah
• 1:17:51
  was really the first guy that I had ever heard
• 1:17:53
  of that was accelerating his recovery from Uriah is very
• 1:17:56
  smart and he's always on top of like all the
• 1:17:58
  latest training methods and he runs Team Alpha Male in Sacramento.
• 1:18:02
  And so they were putting him in hyperbaric chambers. And
• 1:18:06
  then I was like, oh, that's interesting. So then I
• 1:18:08
  started looking into it. I was like, oh, this is–
• 1:18:09
  this is before anybody thought of it as an anti-aging protocol,
• 1:18:13
  before they did any of that stuff. He was like
• 1:18:15
  one of the first guys that I ever heard of
• 1:18:17
  that was using it to recover from injuries.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 3: Michael Jackson was using one.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: Was he? Yeah.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 3: It was Wacko Jacko's Coffin. And it was him laid
• 1:18:26
  down in a hyperbaric chamber.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: That's interesting. I wonder why he was doing it.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, he was into some pretty crazy health stuff
• 1:18:34
  as well, I think.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: Well, he was into some non-healthy stuff. That's crazy. He
• 1:18:42
  was into getting sedated.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: That's also true.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 4: 86.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 3: That's crazy.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: Crazy. Yeah.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: Fuck you, Uriah Faber.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: It does help you.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 3: It's so good.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: You were telling me that it's really helped you quite
• 1:18:57
  a bit.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The hyperbaric chamber is such an unbelievable tool. I mean,
• 1:19:01
  the reason that I think not many people talk about
• 1:19:03
  it is it's so inaccessible. It's Michael Jackson's secret plan
• 1:19:07
  to live forever.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 4: Said it would make him live to at least 150. Well.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: 50 vitamin pills a day. That was the plan, I guess.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 4: That was the plan.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: It's like a proto-Brian Johnson.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: He was just talking about hyperbaric.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 3: He says it's the number one intervention of everything that
• 1:19:24
  he's ever tried. But it's so expensive and time-consuming and
• 1:19:31
  kind of awkward that it doesn't make sense. I've been
• 1:19:33
  looking at the Backyard Ultra races. Have you seen these
• 1:19:36
  as well?
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: Backyard Ultra races? Yes.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: So- You run a four-mile loop every hour.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: In your backyard?
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 3: No. Well, yeah, I guess so. People do it on ranches.
• 1:19:46
  There's one here at Bear Performance. There's a bunch of others.
• 1:19:50
  Every hour, on the hour, you have to run four miles.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: You go until only one person's left.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, fuck that.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: So it was made by the guy who created one
• 1:20:01
  of the most famous orienteering runs. And what he didn't like,
• 1:20:04
  it's a super, super difficult run. They included tearing pages
• 1:20:08
  out of books to ensure that you'd been to the
• 1:20:09
  right place. And sometimes the map didn't work. Lots of
• 1:20:12
  people didn't finish this race, but sometimes they did. And
• 1:20:15
  he wanted to create a race that nobody would win.
• 1:20:18
  The only winner would ever be the race, right? Because
• 1:20:21
  eventually when you're the final person, when number two's dropped,
• 1:20:24
  you don't keep going. You give up. So this guy
• 1:20:27
  called Mark Dowdle just won. It's called Last Soul Standing.
• 1:20:31
  And he just did a 96-hour race. 96 hours, four
• 1:20:37
  miles every single hour, 395 miles over basically five days.
• 1:20:42
  He's just completed that. And the guy that currently holds
• 1:20:45
  the record, this dude called Phil Gore, he owns, he's
• 1:20:47
  got the record at 119 laps. So for every lap,
• 1:20:50
  it's one hour. He's going to do in three days time,
• 1:20:53
  he's going to try and do seven days straight, 168
• 1:20:56
  hours without stopping. 168 hours, four miles every hour.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: Jamie, we have to edit this out of the podcast
• 1:21:06
  so Cam Haynes doesn't hear about it. I don't want
• 1:21:10
  him to die.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 3: I think he's had a crack at it.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, God. Has he had a crack at that?
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 3: I think he's done some of them. I know that
• 1:21:18
  Truett's been associated with Nick Bear at Bear Performance, and
• 1:21:22
  they do a lot of those as well.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: Dude, that sounds like someone's going to die.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, what's fascinating is you have this one-hour block
• 1:21:31
  And you have to have completed the lap by the
• 1:21:33
  time that the next hour begins. But you can either
• 1:21:35
  go quickly and get maybe 15 minutes or so of
• 1:21:38
  a little bit of rest. Maybe you can have a
• 1:21:39
  tiny little sleep or get.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 4: Some food in.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: Or you just keep going the whole time.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: Or you can move a little bit more slowly and
• 1:21:45
  just come into land before and then basically just keep going.
• 1:21:48
  So the pacing, the nutrition, the sleep.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: But, yeah. And as soon as you can't make the
• 1:21:53
  four miles in an hour.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 4: You're done.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: Within an hour, game over.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to find the video. Wasn't he trolling the
• 1:21:57
  guy at the end?
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 4: He was going slow, and he just sort of kneeled
• 1:22:02
  down behind him and waited for him to go. And
• 1:22:03
  as soon as he went, he was like, I'm right
• 1:22:04
  behind you. I'm going to be right behind you the
• 1:22:05
  whole time. I'm not going anywhere.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get him to quit.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 4: It's all mental games, I think, in that last little bit.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know. That distance running stuff is fucking gnarly.
• 1:22:15
  It's so cool.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: It is crazy. But it's interesting how they can maintain
• 1:22:18
  that pace for such a long time. Like, the pace
• 1:22:22
  is not bad. They're not walking. They're running.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little shuffle.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 5: It is.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: So it makes me wonder. You know, in terms of MMA,
• 1:22:32
  there's guys today that their cardio is so insane that
• 1:22:37
  they've completely raised the bar. Marab Dwavishwili is the best example.
• 1:22:41
  His cardio is so insane. He's completely raised the bar
• 1:22:44
  for what we thought was possible in a five-round fight.
• 1:22:47
  I mean, this guy just has this fucking insane work ethic.
• 1:22:51
  and he's always in the gym, and he's always training,
• 1:22:53
  and his cardio is just so elite because it's just
• 1:22:57
  built upon layers upon layers upon layers. And it makes
• 1:23:01
  me wonder. We have this idea in our head that
• 1:23:04
  a person can only go so hard for five rounds
• 1:23:07
  because you can't recover. I don't know if that's true.
• 1:23:12
  I have a feeling that much like these marathon runners
• 1:23:16
  and ultras and all these people that are doing triathlons
• 1:23:19
  and Ironman, that you can build up your endurance over
• 1:23:25
  time if you keep pushing and keep pushing. As long
• 1:23:28
  as your body doesn't break, and this is the real
• 1:23:30
  problem with MMA, your body can break. Because you're wrestling
• 1:23:34
  and getting kicked and punched. But if you can build it,
• 1:23:37
  I think it's like everything else. It's layers upon layers.
• 1:23:40
  If you never let off the gas and you keep going,
• 1:23:42
  your body will adapt. Your body will adapt. Your body
• 1:23:45
  will adapt. And eventually we get to a point where
• 1:23:47
  you could kind of go like 80%, 90% for five rounds.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 3: Which would be fucking terrifying.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: Which is fucking terrifying. And Murab is kind of almost there.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 3: How old is he?
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: He's older now.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: That's what I was thinking because the problem– I think
• 1:24:00
  he's 36. In order to get that baseline of cardio,
• 1:24:06
  I think it's going to take such a long time
• 1:24:07
  to accumulate it. And the problem is that you're going
• 1:24:10
  to lose some of the explosiveness. You're going to accumulate
• 1:24:12
  some injuries. So if you got rid of the fighting
• 1:24:14
  bit and just did backyard ultra or something similar, then
• 1:24:17
  you've got maybe 42, 45, maybe even someone who's 50
• 1:24:21
  might have not done the damage of the impact.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 4: 35 years old.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: He'll be 36 in January.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: And you think he's got the biggest gas tank?
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: The best. It's insane. His gas tank is extraordinary. He
• 1:24:35
  wilts people. You see it. It's just like it's insane.
• 1:24:39
  He never stops. He never stops coming at you. And
• 1:24:41
  it's like he doesn't wane. Like everybody wanes. Everybody slows
• 1:24:45
  down the third. He's nice. It's like a pit bull, man.
• 1:24:50
  It's crazy. And it's just hard work. Famously, Daniel Cormier
• 1:24:55
  went to visit him on the Sunday after he won
• 1:24:57
  the world title, and he went to his house, and
• 1:24:58
  he was out running. He just won the world title,
• 1:25:02
  and he's out running. He just never gets off the gas.
• 1:25:06
  Did you see this guy? Oh, yeah. He broke the
• 1:25:09
  record for the mile. For the mile? Yes, I did.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 4: Unbelievable. 27-year-old record, I think. He beat it by half
• 1:25:14
  a second.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: He's another guy using altitude training. He lives at altitude.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 4: It's 16.2 miles an hour average for four minutes.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 4: That's so fast.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: How fast is the record now?
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 4: He had those 342. That is so fast.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: That guy behind him is like, fuck. Fuck.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 3: Good British man.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: Look at him go, man. He looks so strong, too.
• 1:25:44
  He doesn't look like he's fading at all. That's so impressive.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 3: It's cool that they have the chaser light behind him.
• 1:25:51
  As well, to know where he needs to.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: Bro, he is just separating himself from that dude in
• 1:25:55
  second place.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 4: I only get by half a second, too.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 4: You just did it.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: Crazy.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the sickest thing.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 4: But it took so long for the four-minute mile, right?
• 1:26:04
  That was the whole movie.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. And then if someone breaks it. What was it previously?
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 4: 343.1 or. 2. That is crazy.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 3: Unbelievable.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: Half a second.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: It's such a miserable distance as well. I don't want
• 1:26:21
  to do that. I don't want to run a mile
• 1:26:23
  flat out.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: I know. I mean he was kind of flat out
• 1:26:25
  for a whole mile. But so the guy that I
• 1:26:29
  was working with today with the hypoxia trainer, he was
• 1:26:32
  telling me about this guy, that this guy, his whole
• 1:26:34
  thing is like training at altitude and sleeping at altitude.
• 1:26:37
  And that it's legal as cheating. If you can live
• 1:26:40
  at altitude and you're doing something that requires endurance– And
• 1:26:44
  we were talking about it. I was like if I
• 1:26:45
  was going to give advice to a fighter or if
• 1:26:47
  I was going to set up like a fight camp,
• 1:26:49
  like if I was going to bankroll some big-time trainer
• 1:26:53
  to set up a fight camp, 100 percent I'd put
• 1:26:55
  it at the top of a mountain. 100 percent. Everyone
• 1:26:58
  is going to sleep there. Everyone is going to live there.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 3: Are the Dagestani guys, are they outside?
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, man. Of course. They're in the mountains. They're
• 1:27:05
  mountain people, man.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 3: Little mountain goats at the top of this thing.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: Savages. Yeah. It is strange.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: I mean looking at– Lance Armstrong and what he was doing.
• 1:27:14
  He was basically reverse engineering that, but just through pharmacology
• 1:27:17
  and blood doping and, okay, well, we can work around that.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was doing that, but he was also, he
• 1:27:25
  was doing a lot of altitude work too, but he
• 1:27:27
  was also doing what everybody else was doing. This idea
• 1:27:30
  that Lance Armstrong was this big cheater. If you took
• 1:27:33
  away everyone in the podiums that hadn't been busted, like,
• 1:27:39
  If you took away anyone that got caught with any substances,
• 1:27:41
  I think you would get down to 18th place. I
• 1:27:44
  think that's what they said. It was a dirty sport.
• 1:27:49
  Completely dirty sport. So he was the best at the
• 1:27:52
  dirty sport. So, sorry.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 3: I played within the rules. They weren't the rules that
• 1:27:56
  were set down by the Federation, but they were the
• 1:27:58
  rules that everybody else was playing by.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, they got him. And he was guilty.
• 1:28:03
  And he did lie about whether or not he did that.
• 1:28:05
  They all lied. They were all doping. They were all
• 1:28:08
  doing a bunch of shit.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 3: You know what I think about? I think about the
• 1:28:11
  fact that lots of pursuits that people go into aren't
• 1:28:15
  tested federations.
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: Business.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 3: Business isn't a tested federation. If you want to take
• 1:28:19
  armadafinil and work 19 hours a day, you can do that.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 3: No one's going to come and stop you. No one's
• 1:28:24
  going to say, hey, this share price, that's unfair that
• 1:28:27
  you got that share price because you were enhanced. You
• 1:28:29
  were using Adderall or you were using too much caffeine
• 1:28:31
  or parazantine or you were on the new tonic, whatever.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: That's a good point.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 3: No, that's not a tested federation.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 3: But it's as important, maybe even more important to a
• 1:28:38
  lot of people. It's more people participating in business than
• 1:28:41
  participating in professional sports.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Especially things like Adderall. They're like, you have energy
• 1:28:46
  all day. You can work 16, 17 hours a day.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 3: Have you ever used it? I've never tried it.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: No. Scared of it. Scared.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 3: That being said, Victoria.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: That was awesome though.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 3: I'm sure it's fun. Jamie, get us some Adderall. Let's
• 1:28:58
  fuck it.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: When you talked to Hunter Biden, did you guys talk
• 1:29:01
  about crack?
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 3: All the time.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: So I told you that I was going to do that,
• 1:29:06
  and then we didn't do that, and you did it.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 3: I didn't take the idea.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: I promise. I told it to you, though. You already
• 1:29:12
  had it booked in advance, but you didn't tell me
• 1:29:13
  you had it booked when I told you that we
• 1:29:15
  were going to do it.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 3: Should I have told you?
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 3: It doesn't matter.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: Some of the guys got upset. Like, he took our idea.
• 1:29:21
  We were going to do a Protect Our Parks with
• 1:29:23
  Hunter Biden. But then Ari, because we thought Ari couldn't
• 1:29:27
  make it. We wanted to do another Protect Our Parks.
• 1:29:30
  And Ari was in London. And Ari was like.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 3: He's moved to London.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And he was like, I'll fly back for that.
• 1:29:35
  And we were like, all right, fuck Hunter Biden. And
• 1:29:38
  so we didn't.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 3: It's just as well I got him. We've had no fun. Yeah.
• 1:29:42
  He talked a lot about crack. Dude, I got to say,
• 1:29:44
  he's so likable. It's terrifying how likable he is.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I mean he grew up with a
• 1:29:49
  politician and he's a smart guy.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 4: Maybe.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 3: Maybe. I mean I was trying to find the– was
• 1:29:56
  the manipulative game that's being played here or whatever.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: It's interesting that he took a long time out of
• 1:30:03
  the public eye, many, many years, and then he sort
• 1:30:07
  of reemerged. Some people are very upset. Some people are
• 1:30:09
  very upset that like these conservatives are platforming him. Like
• 1:30:13
  they're criticizing that. Yeah. But you don't want to hear
• 1:30:18
  about what his story is like. I mean this guy
• 1:30:20
  is– obviously he lived a wild life.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 3: Isn't that interesting? I wanted to ask him the question.
• 1:30:25
  What was it like to be the most Googled drug
• 1:30:26
  addict in history probably? And it's fucking wild. What does
• 1:30:31
  it feel like to have that much pressure on you?
• 1:30:33
  But regardless, forget who his dad is. Forget that it's
• 1:30:36
  US politics. Forget that it's the future of the country.
• 1:30:39
  Like there is a person in there and there is
• 1:30:41
  a person under a level of scrutiny that has– maybe
• 1:30:44
  never been seen before right like you wake up one
• 1:30:46
  day and he told us the story of what it
• 1:30:48
  was like to just have the laptop that he just
• 1:30:51
  it just this story bursts and it is everything it's
• 1:30:55
  the future of the country it's the future of your
• 1:30:56
  dad's legacy it's your life it's your family's life it's
• 1:30:59
  he's two years into sobriety at the time i think
• 1:31:01
  the temptation to come back is.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: The laptop real or is it really they hacked into
• 1:31:08
  his cloud and then they put it on a laptop
• 1:31:12
  Because I've heard him say that, that there's way too
• 1:31:15
  much data for it to have ever been on a laptop.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 3: It's 20 years. It was two decades. Everything, every text message,
• 1:31:21
  every photo, every, every, every, every.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. So he– You get.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 3: In through the laptop.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: What is his– but is it actually in the laptop
• 1:31:29
  or did someone put it in the laptop? I think–
• 1:31:32
  I don't want to say anything incorrect here. So let's
• 1:31:35
  just make sure that I'm correct or let's just find
• 1:31:37
  out what the truth is. Is his position that they
• 1:31:43
  hacked into his cloud and that's how they got all
• 1:31:45
  those videos of him smoking crack and going 170 miles
• 1:31:49
  an hour and getting foot jobs and all that stuff?
• 1:31:51
  That all was in the cloud. That wasn't on a
• 1:31:54
  laptop that he just handed to a repair store. That
• 1:31:57
  that's a bullshit narrative. to cover for the fact that
• 1:32:00
  they hacked into his cloud and got all of his
• 1:32:03
  photos and videos.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 3: He didn't give us the specifics on that one. What
• 1:32:06
  I do think would have happened is maybe you get
• 1:32:08
  into the cloud through the laptop. If you've got access
• 1:32:10
  to that, if you open up the laptop because you
• 1:32:12
  need to have the logins, then you can just get
• 1:32:16
  into someone's iCloud through that.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: But you still have to log in. Once you get
• 1:32:20
  the laptop, you have to have the passwords.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 3: It's crazy, dude.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: I mean– I would assume he's got some passwords.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: Mine did not definitively claim– This.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 4: Doesn't have no real answer to that.
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: He did not definitively claim the Delaware laptop was hacked
• 1:32:32
  or stolen in a 2021 CBS interview. This was a
• 1:32:35
  long time ago. He said he did not know whether
• 1:32:37
  or not his– it was his– and floated several possibilities,
• 1:32:42
  including that a laptop was stolen from me, that he
• 1:32:45
  was hacked, or that Russian intelligence was involved. Okay, he's
• 1:32:48
  doing the Russia, Russia, Russia shit back then. That was 2021.
• 1:32:52
  You could get away with that.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: You could get away with anything.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: This is also while Joe Biden was the president of
• 1:32:57
  the United States, right? So there could be a laptop
• 1:33:00
  out there that was stolen from me. Okay. This is
• 1:33:02
  not a good timeline.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 3: We've got new shit.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The timeline in the more recent interviews, I believe
• 1:33:10
  his position was that the amount of data wouldn't even
• 1:33:13
  have fit on a laptop and that it's bullshit and
• 1:33:16
  they're calling it the laptop. But a lot of it
• 1:33:18
  is just his personal experience. information that he had somewhere
• 1:33:21
  that was hacked. So then the narrative is not that
• 1:33:25
  this guy was so cracked out that he had a
• 1:33:27
  laptop filled with him getting.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 4: His dick sucked. I had to push it for more clarification.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: Okay. In August, 2026 interview with Tucker Carlson, Biden reportedly said, Hey,
• 1:33:37
  reportedly you're perplexity. Come on. You're supposed to tell you
• 1:33:42
  didn't listen. Did you watch perplexity? In August 2026 interview,
• 1:33:47
  Biden reportedly said they hacked my cloud. He denied the
• 1:33:50
  full collection described as his laptop could all have originated
• 1:33:55
  from one device, saying it was way too large. He
• 1:33:58
  suggested an unknown actor, potentially an intelligence service or another person,
• 1:34:03
  could have taken digital material and combined it with the
• 1:34:08
  purported laptop narrative. So that's possible. In a July 2026
• 1:34:12
  Substack launch, he wrote that the providence was never established,
• 1:34:15
  that no court forensics examiner had certified a chain of
• 1:34:19
  custody sufficient to make evidence rather than theater. He did
• 1:34:23
  acknowledge that material associated with reflected his addiction struggles. See,
• 1:34:29
  there could be a lot of things going on. One
• 1:34:31
  could be that he was cracked out and he left
• 1:34:33
  the laptop and he doesn't remember being cracked out and
• 1:34:35
  leaving the laptop. But the idea that there's too much data,
• 1:34:39
  that it wouldn't have fit on a laptop, The problem
• 1:34:42
  with that is there's two terabyte hard drives on laptops now.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 3: That's a lot of data.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: What was a– well, this is 2020, right?
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 4: Here's the one thing, too, I find very interesting about it.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: What?
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 4: It's on the screen. The guy who ran the shop
• 1:34:58
  that the laptop was supposedly dropped off at.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 3: Because he's legally blind.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 4: Could not confirm who the customer was because he's legally blind.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, how convenient. How convenient. He probably never went to
• 1:35:12
  that place. It's probably a total fake story. And they
• 1:35:18
  made up a fake story. Maybe they even stole a
• 1:35:20
  laptop of his.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 3: The thing that I was most fascinated by was he
• 1:35:25
  was two years sober when that happened. Allegedly. Allegedly. Although
• 1:35:29
  he is tested, I think, supposedly.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: By who? His dad? Yeah, maybe. Oh, you look great, son.
• 1:35:35
  Clean it up.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 3: He told me that he packs his bags with a
• 1:35:38
  witness when he packs his carry-ons and stuff. There's a
• 1:35:43
  witness there, too.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: Whoa. So he doesn't get fucking, oh, wow.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 3: In case someone snuck something into his bag. Who's going
• 1:35:49
  to believe him? It's like, who's going to believe?
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: That's crazy. That's crazy. Imagine living like that.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 3: The amount of scrutiny. That was what I was most
• 1:35:56
  fascinated by. I was thinking, what is it like to
• 1:35:58
  have the entire world bearing down on you? Not only
• 1:36:01
  the world, the country, the future of politics, your dad,
• 1:36:04
  your dad's legacy. Are you going to get a pardon?
• 1:36:06
  Who even fucking knows? Who cares? Probably not.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, my God. And then there's the reality.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 3: Don't go back to drugs. Don't use your drugs again.
• 1:36:12
  This is how you would have fixed it. This is
• 1:36:13
  how you would have done it in the past. Two
• 1:36:15
  years sober.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. Two years sober is so gentle, too.
• 1:36:19
  So dangerous.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 3: You're not even out of the woods.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: And when you think about that whole story, how that
• 1:36:25
  blew up right before the election, it could have really
• 1:36:30
  been an intelligence plot to try to sink Joe Biden.
• 1:36:34
  And they countered it. And the way they countered it
• 1:36:36
  was by blocking the story from Twitter, a factual story
• 1:36:40
  from the New York Post. Giuliani apparently held the information
• 1:36:45
  for months and released it less than three weeks before
• 1:36:48
  the election. Giuliani has long been involved in efforts by
• 1:36:52
  the president and his allies to highlight Hunter Biden's work
• 1:36:56
  overseas to damage Joe Biden and boost Mr. Trump's reelection campaign.
• 1:37:00
  And in 2019, and in 2019, met with a Ukrainian
• 1:37:04
  lawmaker who had been deemed an active Russian agent by
• 1:37:09
  the U.S. government. What is it?
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 3: The October surprise. That's what they call it.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 3: So each year there's been something that the losing side
• 1:37:16
  has pointed to as the justification for why it happened. Russiagate,
• 1:37:21
  Biden laptop suppression. And then in the most recent one,
• 1:37:23
  it was podcasts. That was, well, this is what had
• 1:37:26
  it not have been for the sway that occurred due
• 1:37:30
  to this run that was done. On podcast, that's what
• 1:37:33
  moved the election.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: Well, the real problem with that narrative was I don't
• 1:37:38
  know anybody who wasn't willing to talk to Kamala Harris.
• 1:37:43
  I was willing to.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 3: Everyone reached out to her.
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: I tried to talk to her a bunch of times.
• 1:37:46
  And they tried to pretend that I made it difficult.
• 1:37:49
  It's a fucking complete horseshit lie. They also lied and
• 1:37:53
  they said they came down here and checked out the
• 1:37:55
  studio and did a run of the place. They did not.
• 1:37:58
  They did not do that. They did not. Trump's people
• 1:38:02
  did and I've said that. Like if you want to
• 1:38:04
  say that they knew that someone did it but I
• 1:38:06
  don't know how much they're communicating with each other. Trump's
• 1:38:08
  Secret Service people came down and they scanned the whole place.
• 1:38:12
  They went through the whole place before he came in.
• 1:38:15
  But she's alleging that her people did a run of
• 1:38:17
  the studio. They did not. No representatives from her organization
• 1:38:21
  were ever here. And that it would.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 3: Be insufficiently secure or something? Is that what– No.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: I mean they said that we were making it difficult.
• 1:38:30
  I was making it as easy as possible. And the
• 1:38:32
  one day that she offered to do it, I was
• 1:38:34
  already booked with him. And I even said I would
• 1:38:37
  do it.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 3: No fucking way.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: And I said I would do it but it would
• 1:38:40
  have to be– she had a gig in Houston. She
• 1:38:42
  was doing like a speech in Houston. I think that
• 1:38:44
  was one of the ones where like Beyonce came out
• 1:38:46
  and everybody thought she was going to sing and she didn't.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 3: Everyone got mad.
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone got mad. So she was somewhere else in Texas.
• 1:38:53
  And I said, listen, when she's done with that, I'll
• 1:38:56
  do a podcast at midnight. Come on in. I'll go
• 1:38:59
  whenever you want to do it. I'll do it the
• 1:39:01
  next day. I'll do it that night.
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 3: That would have been one of the wildest 24 hours
• 1:39:04
  of your life.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: I was down to do that. And I was going
• 1:39:06
  to release them both at the exact same time. Unreal.
• 1:39:08
  That was the idea. But she wasn't willing to do it.
• 1:39:11
  They even gave me a bunch of things. This is
• 1:39:13
  also that they didn't tell the truth about. There was
• 1:39:16
  a bunch of things that they said she didn't want
• 1:39:18
  to talk about. And I said, fine. She didn't want
• 1:39:20
  to talk about her record for prosecuting marijuana possession in
• 1:39:24
  California and then for using those people that were supposed
• 1:39:28
  to get released past the date that they were released
• 1:39:31
  to fight wildfires. She didn't want to talk about that. Fine.
• 1:39:35
  And then there was one other one. I forget what
• 1:39:37
  the other one was about that they didn't want to
• 1:39:39
  talk about. And then they came back and said they
• 1:39:41
  did want to talk about marijuana legalization. Oh, immigration. They
• 1:39:45
  were not so keen on talking about immigration. Maybe it
• 1:39:48
  wasn't immigration. Was it immigration, Jamie? Do you remember? I
• 1:39:50
  don't remember what the other one was. But I was like, fine.
• 1:39:53
  I'll ask her about cooking. I don't give a fuck. Like,
• 1:39:55
  let's talk. Like, I just want to sit down across
• 1:39:58
  and find out who you are. We'll figure it out.
• 1:40:01
  We'll figure it out. I'll ask you if you believe
• 1:40:02
  in Jesus. We'll figure it out. Do you believe in UFOs? Like,
• 1:40:05
  what do you think? Will you get to release the files? Like,
• 1:40:07
  I'll find out who you are. Let's go. You know,
• 1:40:11
  maybe I like you. Maybe no one's had a chance
• 1:40:13
  to see you for this way. Maybe you can... Laugh
• 1:40:15
  and joke around and be like a real person instead
• 1:40:18
  of like being a person with sound bites because you
• 1:40:20
  can relax because, you know, there's no time constraint. Who
• 1:40:22
  fucking knows? But we didn't get to find out. So
• 1:40:25
  to say that you're blaming podcasts on her not getting elected.
• 1:40:28
  How about the fact that you spent one point four
• 1:40:30
  billion fucking dollars and you put someone in without a
• 1:40:34
  primary and you blew all this money and you still lost? Like,
• 1:40:40
  you guys fucked it up. You fucked it up. You
• 1:40:42
  had all this momentum. When she had that one speech,
• 1:40:45
  it's like, say it to my face. Like, they had it.
• 1:40:50
  If she never did another fucking speech and never did
• 1:40:53
  a podcast, never did anything, and only did pre-prepared, like,
• 1:40:57
  monologues like that.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 3: Game over.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: Game over. Game over. Game over. She's younger. She's got
• 1:41:04
  more energy. She's like a new, fresh thing. Let's go.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 3: How much do you think that run of podcasts for
• 1:41:12
  Trump did move the needle? Have you got any idea?
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: It did a lot. I think it did. I think
• 1:41:17
  the one with Theo Vaughn, I think, moved the needle first.
• 1:41:23
  And then the one with me, I think you got
• 1:41:25
  to see him fuck around a little and relax and
• 1:41:29
  talk about things. And you got to see a human
• 1:41:31
  being instead of like a cartoon.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 3: But you only got to see one side of the
• 1:41:36
  election do that. You didn't get to see– Yeah.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: That could have happened with her too. Like I'm not
• 1:41:41
  a hard interview, man. I'm not– I don't want to
• 1:41:43
  get in arguments with people. I'd like to get in
• 1:41:45
  discussions with people. I'm not into being insulting. I'm not
• 1:41:49
  into being shitty. I'm not into doing that. I just
• 1:41:52
  wanted to talk. Like if you want to run the
• 1:41:54
  president– you want to be the commander-in-chief of the greatest
• 1:41:58
  army the world has ever known. Like let's– Have a conversation.
• 1:42:02
  I don't think that's that hard to do. And if
• 1:42:04
  you can't do that, like, well, what are you hiding?
• 1:42:06
  Who are you? I think it was a lot of
• 1:42:08
  her people that didn't want her to do it. First
• 1:42:10
  of all, there was a lot of people that are
• 1:42:11
  like super woke and just didn't want her in any
• 1:42:15
  way to be associated with me. And then there was
• 1:42:17
  a lot of people that were really worried that she
• 1:42:19
  was going to say something that fucked it up or
• 1:42:21
  that we were going to get into something that she
• 1:42:23
  can't defend. Because there was a lot of things that
• 1:42:26
  really did like make people go, what? Like when she
• 1:42:29
  said she wouldn't have done anything different than Joe Biden
• 1:42:31
  when she was on The View. I don't think I'd
• 1:42:33
  do anything different. Everybody's like, oh, great. This is nuts.
• 1:42:38
  We're trying to vote for you. Fucking lie to me.
• 1:42:43
  There was definitely that. And then there was some crazy
• 1:42:47
  stuff she said too. when she was vice president and
• 1:42:50
  saying like, how dare we say Merry Christmas? Like you
• 1:42:53
  get those clips and you go, wait, what? Who are you?
• 1:42:56
  Who are you? Do you believe that? Do you really
• 1:42:59
  believe how dare we say Merry Christmas? Or is this
• 1:43:01
  like a crazy thing that you went through that day?
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 3: Well, it's wild to think I'm worried about being too
• 1:43:06
  bombastic when the person I'm going up against is Donald Trump.
• 1:43:09
  You know what I mean?
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: Well, some people, they fuck up a few things and
• 1:43:16
  then they're terrified they're going to fuck up. So every
• 1:43:19
  time they do an interview, they're like, I don't want
• 1:43:20
  to fuck this up. I don't want to fuck this up.
• 1:43:22
  And that's when the staff gets involved. They wanted one
• 1:43:24
  staff in the room. I'm like, fuck no. No, you
• 1:43:27
  can't have staff in the room. Fuck out of here.
• 1:43:30
  Fuck out of here. They also want to know if
• 1:43:32
  it's edited. Like we edit things like this. No. People
• 1:43:37
  have to find out who the fuck you really are.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 3: But that feels scary because there's no get out of
• 1:43:42
  jail free.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: It's supposed to be scary. You want to be the president.
• 1:43:45
  You want to be the president. It's the scariest thing
• 1:43:47
  of all time. Yeah. Yeah. You got to deal with
• 1:43:51
  potential nuclear war, OK? I think you can sit down
• 1:43:53
  for a conversation. It's not even me. Even if it's
• 1:43:56
  not me, sit down with a bunch of other people.
• 1:43:58
  But sit down with people that are going to ask
• 1:43:59
  you real questions, really talk to you. Like I don't
• 1:44:03
  know what happened on the Call Her Daddy podcast, but
• 1:44:05
  I think it was very short. I don't think they
• 1:44:07
  got into anything deep. Like you got to ask like
• 1:44:11
  the immigration thing was nuts. You have to ask like
• 1:44:13
  what are you doing? Like why do you guys have
• 1:44:16
  an open border? Why are you just letting all these
• 1:44:19
  unvetted people from third world crime infested poor countries, desperate people,
• 1:44:26
  desperate that want to want to walk to America? Do
• 1:44:29
  you know how crazy that is? And we're just letting
• 1:44:32
  them all in without knowing how many of them are
• 1:44:34
  just trying to make a better life and how many
• 1:44:35
  of them are drug cartel and how many of them
• 1:44:37
  are terrorists and how many. The fuck are you doing?
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 3: What are we doing? What's happened with the status of
• 1:44:43
  immigration now?
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 4: I know that.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: They put the brakes on it. They stopped like an
• 1:44:48
  enormous number of people crossing the border, like an enormous number.
• 1:44:53
  I think it's down like– what is it down? Like
• 1:44:55
  how many– what is the percentage of illegal border crossings
• 1:44:59
  down since Trump has been in office? They could have
• 1:45:02
  done it the entire time, man. They wanted that border open.
• 1:45:07
  They wanted those people coming in. They wanted to flood
• 1:45:09
  the census. They wanted to flood those swing states. They
• 1:45:13
  wanted to get people that are here and give them citizenship.
• 1:45:16
  They wanted to get them on Medicaid. They want to
• 1:45:17
  get them on health care. They want to give them
• 1:45:19
  free cell phones. They wanted to make those people voters
• 1:45:24
  and they wanted to try to just make it like
• 1:45:26
  it's California, like the whole country is California, like you
• 1:45:29
  can never leave. You can never escape. It's one party
• 1:45:32
  runs it forever and they run it terribly and it
• 1:45:34
  gets more and more terrible and they need more and
• 1:45:37
  more money to make it more and more terrible.
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 3: That's not a great case. Fuck me.
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I just– Well, it's not the case now, but
• 1:45:45
  this is not great either.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 4: OK.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: January 2025, Border Patrol recorded 29,000. In the first full
• 1:45:54
  month of the administration, February, that fell to 8,000, about
• 1:45:57
  a 71 percent month-to-month decline. So all told, what's the
• 1:46:07
  percentage of decline there? What's the percentage of decline based
• 1:46:11
  on 2026 versus 2023? Let's find that out. Oh, 2025
• 1:46:13
  versus 2023. Data. Okay, let's see what they say. What
• 1:46:18
  percentage is it down? 88%. It's down 88 percent. You
• 1:46:39
  know how crazy that is? That's crazy. So they were
• 1:46:46
  letting millions of people in and we didn't know who
• 1:46:50
  they are. And the idea is like if you want
• 1:46:52
  to be a kind, compassionate person and immigrants deserve what
• 1:46:55
  you have and– OK. But we have to know they're
• 1:46:58
  not murderers, folks. OK? We can't just– have you ever
• 1:47:01
  been to like the worst places of the third world?
• 1:47:04
  Probably not. If you did– You wouldn't want those people
• 1:47:06
  just like roaming around your neighborhood when you have to
• 1:47:10
  leave your garage and go to work. You wouldn't want
• 1:47:13
  that because they're just like, oh, the guy's not here.
• 1:47:15
  I'll break into his house.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 3: How much of this is a luxury belief that the
• 1:47:18
  people that are espousing the things that they're supporting aren't
• 1:47:22
  the ones that are going to be impacted by it?
• 1:47:24
  It's the same as I told you this last time
• 1:47:26
  I was on. There was a house near where I
• 1:47:29
  live in Austin that had a defund the police sign.
• 1:47:32
  in the front yard and a private security sticker on
• 1:47:35
  the front window.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 2: That's cute. People are cute. Well, there's a lot of that.
• 1:47:41
  It's a lot of white people. White people are a
• 1:47:43
  real problem.
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 3: Well, that's this.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: Privileged white people.
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 4: It started dropping in 2024 because of a Biden asylum
• 1:47:55
  change or something.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: Sure it did. Listen, they probably tried to put the
• 1:47:59
  brakes on it a little bit when they were losing
• 1:48:01
  the election. When they were getting the polls in, they
• 1:48:04
  were like, oh my god, this is getting tight. Yeah,
• 1:48:06
  for sure. Otherwise, they would have done it in 2023.
• 1:48:09
  They're not– they're doing it because of a political reason.
• 1:48:14
  They probably would have opened it right back up if
• 1:48:15
  Kamala won. Like we– no one is illegal on stolen land.
• 1:48:20
  Come on in.
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 3: Meanwhile, Victoria's Secret is up 300 percent year on year,
• 1:48:26
  the share price, because of Ozempic. I found this out yesterday.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: What?
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 3: 300 percent increase. Because of Ozempic? So what the proposed
• 1:48:34
  reason for this is that millions of women have lost
• 1:48:36
  so much weight that their bras have stopped fitting. And
• 1:48:39
  because they're smaller, they're now going and getting more seductive underwear.
• 1:48:45
  300% increase year on year.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: Hot little stick figures.
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 3: That's what's happening, dude. Ozempic's a fucking hell of a drug.
• 1:48:51
  Here's another thing I found out that women are getting
• 1:48:55
  bridal dresses fitted, but they're having to predict where their
• 1:48:59
  weight is going to come into land. So some women
• 1:49:01
  are losing up to 50 pounds. They're losing so much
• 1:49:04
  weight between ordering the dress and the wedding that these
• 1:49:07
  bridal stores— are having to get them to sign waivers
• 1:49:11
  in case they don't make weight, like a fighter. Like
• 1:49:13
  if you don't make weight for your bridal dress, you go, well,
• 1:49:15
  we can't give you another one. You've said that you're
• 1:49:17
  going to lose 50 pounds using GLPs over the next
• 1:49:19
  nine months or 12 months or 18 months or whatever.
• 1:49:22
  And because they're scared that they're going to end up
• 1:49:24
  getting these refunds, they're having to sign waivers. I think
• 1:49:27
  the future implications of Ozempic on economy, consumption, like think
• 1:49:32
  about what most of consumerism is. It's not stuff that
• 1:49:36
  people need. It's like things that people want. It's like
• 1:49:40
  a craving. It's impulsivity. It's repeated purchase.
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 3: And that's exactly what GLPs act on. They're not just
• 1:49:48
  suppressing appetite. They're suppressing craving in a lot of different ways.
• 1:49:51
  And it's like what happens to a capitalist system when
• 1:49:56
  you suppress, pharmacologically suppress craving? I want this thing. Well,
• 1:50:01
  maybe you don't. Not in quite the same way because
• 1:50:03
  it seems to work on weed. It seems to work
• 1:50:05
  on video games. It seems to work on a ton
• 1:50:07
  of different behavior. People don't like wine as much. So
• 1:50:11
  it's not just calories. It's more than that. It's consumerism
• 1:50:14
  as well. I think what happens when you intervene pharmacologically
• 1:50:17
  in people's desire to crave is just– that is the
• 1:50:22
  other side. So AI on one side and fucking GLPs
• 1:50:25
  on the other.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: Well, they say that some people have different reactions to GLP-1s, right?
• 1:50:30
  And some people have a lack of desire for relationships,
• 1:50:34
  which is really creepy. Like what is it about– is
• 1:50:40
  it taking away pleasure? Is it taking away excitement? Like
• 1:50:44
  what is it taking away? Like what stimulation that you're
• 1:50:50
  getting by overeating, what is it dulling in the process
• 1:50:54
  that also stops drug addictions? Like it's helping people that
• 1:50:58
  have addictions and it's also helping people that are– that
• 1:51:02
  have like impulsive behavior apparently. I think that's true. But
• 1:51:06
  the weird one is the side effects of like relationships.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's craving again. Maybe it's the same thing. I
• 1:51:13
  looked at the study that came out on X and
• 1:51:17
  people were talking about it. There was some criticism around
• 1:51:19
  whether or not that particular pathway in the brain works
• 1:51:21
  the way that it would. But if you're suppressing craving overall,
• 1:51:24
  that wouldn't surprise me.
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 3: If you're making people just want less.
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: I don't want that at all. Bill Maher was arguing
• 1:51:33
  with Scott Galloway on Real Time about that. Galloway was
• 1:51:37
  like big on GLP-1s. There's benefits. There's– you know, I
• 1:51:41
  think also the thing is dosage. This is an issue
• 1:51:45
  and this is an issue that's been brought up by
• 1:51:48
  compound pharmacies that there's certain people that don't need a
• 1:51:51
  big-ass dose that you're going to get. Like depending upon
• 1:51:55
  your body weight, depending upon your size, you know, like
• 1:51:58
  a 500-pound man. probably needs a different dose than a 135-pound,
• 1:52:05
  five-foot-tall woman.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 3: Is that not being suggested?
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: I don't think so.
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 3: It's not being advised?
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: I think people are starting to do it through their
• 1:52:14
  various healthcare providers and various doctors who have experience with
• 1:52:17
  these things that are giving people like smaller doses and less.
• 1:52:21
  Then there's the Rituitide stuff. Am I saying that right?
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 3: Retatrutide.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: Retatrutide. Retatrutide. That one is a weird one because that
• 1:52:30
  one allows you to keep muscle mass. And that's the
• 1:52:32
  big fear that people have is that you're starving yourself
• 1:52:35
  but you're also losing bone mass and muscle mass.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 3: That's because people who don't have good fitness habits are
• 1:52:43
  reducing an already suboptimal diet. They're not eating well and
• 1:52:47
  now they're eating less of not well. They're still not training,
• 1:52:50
  which means what happens because I think about 90 percent
• 1:52:54
  of people that go on GLPs and then come off
• 1:52:57
  them gain the weight back.
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: So it's– You don't change your behavior.
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 3: You don't change your behavior, but you lose muscle on
• 1:53:03
  the way down and gain fat on the way back up.
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 3: So if you end up back at the same weight
• 1:53:08
  that you were previously, your compositions was? And that's really
• 1:53:12
  concerning because you're basically locked in to use them for
• 1:53:14
  the rest of time if that's the case, if you
• 1:53:16
  can't use something else to fix it.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: I know that they were using different things. Like they
• 1:53:21
  were using IGF-1 along with GLP-1s to mitigate the bone
• 1:53:27
  density and muscle tissue loss. But the reality of having
• 1:53:31
  less calories coming in than coming out is your body
• 1:53:35
  is going to eat itself. I mean that's what's happening.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 3: Which is why you need to do resistance training.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to. You have to lift heavy weights.
• 1:53:43
  Not heavy, but you have to lift something. So you
• 1:53:45
  develop bone density. And this is a giant problem with
• 1:53:49
  older people that have never lifted anything. Their body composition
• 1:53:52
  is just– they might look normal, but they're made out
• 1:53:55
  of dough. You can just punch right through them. And
• 1:53:58
  if they fall down, they're going to get hurt, man.
• 1:54:00
  That's not– When people get older, like one of the
• 1:54:02
  main ways that people die is falling. What happens?
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 3: They hit their heads?
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 2: They hit their heads. They slip in the shower. They
• 1:54:10
  slip in the bathtub. They hit their heads. They break
• 1:54:13
  a hip. When you break a hip, man, the odds
• 1:54:15
  of you living more than 10 years reduce drastically. A
• 1:54:19
  lot of it is also because at the time that
• 1:54:21
  you're breaking a hip, you're probably– Old already? Yeah, old already.
• 1:54:24
  But there's like real data that show that once people
• 1:54:26
  have fallen and broken a hip, like that's a catastrophic
• 1:54:29
  injury that you got to think of all the resources
• 1:54:32
  that your body has to use and employ in order
• 1:54:35
  to heal that. And then there's the compromise in movement
• 1:54:38
  that you're going to have for a long time.
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 3: You're not going to be able to walk. You're going
• 1:54:41
  to need assistance.
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: You're not going to have the same vitality. You're going
• 1:54:43
  to be recovering. You're going to be exhausted. People with
• 1:54:47
  Alzheimer's disease are substantially higher risk of falling. Wow. Falls
• 1:54:52
  can be fatal, especially if they can cause a hip fracture,
• 1:54:54
  head injury, or complications from hospitalizations or immobility. Research indicated
• 1:54:59
  that 60% to 80% of older adults with Alzheimer's experience
• 1:55:03
  a fall more than twice the rate in cognitively normal peers.
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 3: There was a late there's a news story that came
• 1:55:10
  out recently Jamie about a woman who survived for eight
• 1:55:12
  days in a bathtub after she fell sure oh my
• 1:55:17
  god insane so had had a tumble and wasn't found
• 1:55:22
  I don't know what the fuck she was doing in
• 1:55:23
  order to be able to stay alive I guess if
• 1:55:25
  you're in a bathtub you've got some water.
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah but Peeing in the tub and drinking the water.
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 3: And hoping for the best.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 2: 32 years old.
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 4: Nine days, actually, it says.
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 4: She drank water. She managed to splash up onto her
• 1:55:37
  face by turning the faucet on with her foot.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 3: Nine days in a fucking bathtub.
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: How did she not die of hypothermia?
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 3: I guess you could heat yourself up. Just got to
• 1:55:51
  run the water.
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, is she that good at turning the knobs
• 1:55:55
  of her feet? She could scald herself to death. What
• 1:55:59
  the fuck, man?
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 4: Mountain home, rural mountain, North Carolina.
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. That poor lady. Let's get her on
• 1:56:05
  the podcast. And she survived? Get her on the podcast, Jamie,
• 1:56:07
  before Chris does. Poor lady. We probably have to go
• 1:56:15
  to her. Fuck. Probably have to go to the Appalachians.
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 3: That is insane.
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: Fuck, man. There's people that get through some shit.
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 3: I was looking at the studies of how long people
• 1:56:26
  have stayed awake for. That gets really fucking gnarly because
• 1:56:31
  people go into psychosis. That Lindsay Clancy case thing that's
• 1:56:35
  going crazy at the moment, a lot of that is
• 1:56:36
  because of supposedly sleep deprivation on a lot of antipsychotics,
• 1:56:41
  et cetera, et cetera. But you don't need to keep
• 1:56:43
  people awake for that long to turn them insane. If
• 1:56:46
  you're awake for– a couple of days, I think all
• 1:56:48
  fucking hell breaks loose, which is why those backyard ultras
• 1:56:50
  just seem so deranged. Do you think, how are you
• 1:56:53
  even able to apply effort to what it is? How
• 1:56:55
  are you able to make decisions about whether you need
• 1:56:58
  food or sleep or rest or to go harder or
• 1:57:00
  to give up?
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: They all have hallucinations. They all see things that aren't there.
• 1:57:04
  Like Courtney DeWalter, she won the, what'd she win, the Bigfoot?
• 1:57:08
  Is that what she won? When she came on? She
• 1:57:13
  beat the second place dude by 10 hours or something crazy.
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: Imagine you come in second place and you're second place
• 1:57:21
  by 10 hours.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 3: Yes. Maybe half a day.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: The race is three days long, three days of hell.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 3: Well, the crazy thing about endurance is that as you
• 1:57:31
  get longer and longer, the difference between the sexes starts
• 1:57:34
  to even out. And I think in water, it evens
• 1:57:36
  out even quicker because women are more buoyant. Over distances,
• 1:57:39
  women are better swimmers.
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: Makes sense. I sink like a rock.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 3: Well, you don't have to build for swimming.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: I'm terrible at it.
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 3: No, you don't have to build. I recently learned about–
• 1:57:49
  It just come to my mind. Rory McDonald's walkout music.
• 1:57:54
  This story where he changed his number.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 3: And hadn't updated the UFC.
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 2: It's such a great story.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 3: I only found this out.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 3: Were you there at any of those events when he
• 1:58:06
  was walking? I think he came out to like MCC. Hammer.
• 1:58:13
  And people asked him, apparently he got rumbled because he
• 1:58:15
  wanted Nickelback. And they asked him afterwards, they were like, sorry,
• 1:58:18
  we couldn't get you Nickelback. And he said, I didn't
• 1:58:20
  ask for fucking Nickelback. Then we worked it out and
• 1:58:22
  it was just some guy that was a fan that
• 1:58:23
  was deciding to submit songs on Rory McDonald's behalf.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: The guy got Rory's old number and Rory never bothered
• 1:58:31
  telling the UFC. And this guy knew who Rory was
• 1:58:34
  and he was just so jazzed up that he could
• 1:58:36
  pick Rory's walking music. And the guy had a good
• 1:58:38
  sense of humor. So he'd pick some whack songs.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 3: DMC, MC Hammer, DMX, sorry, MC Hammer.
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 2: Well, DMX is great. MC Hammer is great. I mean,
• 1:58:46
  some people love those songs.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 3: I think Nickelback's got legs as well.
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 2: Bro, Nickelback's has some good songs. It's just they're formulaic
• 1:58:54
  and people don't like formulaic songs. There's something about them
• 1:58:58
  that people think is too much of a formulaic song.
• 1:59:00
  But like, How come you like the Cypress Hill rock
• 1:59:03
  star song, but you don't like the rock star song?
• 1:59:07
  It's like the same song. The Nickelback song and Cypress
• 1:59:10
  Hill are the same song. It's the same song. It's
• 1:59:16
  the same song. It's the same song. It's the same premise.
• 1:59:19
  It's about being a rock star. All the crazy shit
• 1:59:21
  that you're going to do. I want to be a
• 1:59:23
  rock star and I want all this cool shit. Look,
• 1:59:26
  the Cypress Hill is a better song. I'm a big
• 1:59:28
  Cypress Hill fan. If I'm getting to choose.
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 4: It also starts off with Chino talking. Like, there's not
• 1:59:34
  many songs that have Chino Moreno from the Deftones.
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 4: Speaking.
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 2: That's true. He's laying out what you need to do
• 1:59:41
  to be a rock star, that there's a lot. But, like, okay,
• 1:59:44
  we can't play this for everybody else, but just for
• 1:59:46
  you and me. Which one? We'll start off with Nickelback.
• 1:59:51
  Start off with Nickelback. Nickelback rock star.
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 3: So fucking happy about this. There's a conspiracy theory that
• 1:59:57
  Nickelback got taken down to demoralize America after 9-11.
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 2: That's hilarious. I think they're Canadian.
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 3: Well, but it was American thrust forward into the world,
• 2:00:09
  that kind of freedom rock.
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 2: They were always a punchline.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 3: Allow me to get you down the rabbit hole.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 4: The Limp Bizkit Woodstock one is a fun one. Hold on.
• 2:00:19
  It's trying to load.
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: So we'll listen to the Nickelback Rockstar song first. Here
• 2:00:24
  we go. Go to Cypress Hill. It's the same song.
• 2:00:29
  It's the same song.
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 4: Disrespectful.
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 2: No, I love Cypress Hill. Bro, B-Roll is my boy.
• 2:00:35
  I love that dude. They're the shit. I fucking love
• 2:00:38
  these guys.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 3: I forgot how hot that song was.
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: It's a way better song. It's a way better song.
• 2:00:45
  You know, you're one of the dopest covers ever. Rage
• 2:00:48
  Against the Machine covered Pistol Grip Pump. Have you ever
• 2:00:51
  heard that? Okay, while we're doing this, since nobody can
• 2:00:54
  listen to this either, just throw up this. This is
• 2:00:56
  one of my favorite Cypress Hill covers, where Rage Against
• 2:00:59
  the Machine covered Cypress Hill. It's fucking fantastic. It's fucking fantastic.
• 2:01:06
  It's better than the original. That goes hard.
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 3: I'd never heard that.
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 2: That goes hard.
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 4: That's so fucking good.
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 2: That's one of the dopest covers ever.
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 3: There is a, what are we, Jamie's going to, It's.
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 2: Like they had an assignment. It's like Cypress Hill and
• 2:01:21
  Nickelback had an assignment. I want you to write a
• 2:01:23
  song about how dope it is to be a rock star.
• 2:01:26
  You want to be a rock star? You want all
• 2:01:27
  this cool shit, right? But Cypress Hill took it from
• 2:01:30
  the position of like all you're going to suffer, all
• 2:01:33
  you're going to lose. You want this. You don't know
• 2:01:35
  how hard it is. And Nickelback is like, hey, hey,
• 2:01:39
  I want to be a rock star. It's fluffy. It's
• 2:01:41
  a little fluffy. Yeah. Yeah. But it's kind of like
• 2:01:44
  an assignment.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 3: It is interesting trying to warn people off of something
• 2:01:48
  that everybody thinks they want. There's this study that was
• 2:01:52
  done on when people enter airplanes and they walk through
• 2:01:56
  business class, economy walks through business class, there's an eight
• 2:02:00
  times increase in passenger rage incidents. So it's a reminder
• 2:02:04
  of your place in the status hierarchy. And I think
• 2:02:08
  it becomes very difficult when trying to warn people off
• 2:02:11
  of– like the rich person telling you that money won't
• 2:02:13
  fix your problems– Or the famous person telling you that
• 2:02:16
  status isn't going to change your self-worth. Or the beautiful
• 2:02:20
  person telling you that looks aren't going to actually make
• 2:02:22
  you feel more valuable in the world. A lot of
• 2:02:24
  the time when people hear that, it sounds like a
• 2:02:26
  luxury belief. It sounds like someone trying to pulling the
• 2:02:29
  ladder up after they've managed to achieve it. And that's why,
• 2:02:32
  I don't know, the rock star that reminds you why
• 2:02:36
  it's so cool and this is what you could get.
• 2:02:40
  Rolling Stone ranked Rockstar at number 100 in their list
• 2:02:43
  of the 100 best songs of 2007.
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 4: But BuzzFeed listed it as number two as one of
• 2:02:49
  the 30 worst songs ever written. Hmm.
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 2: Is it really, though? I think they're unjustly criticized, Nickelback.
• 2:02:58
  They're not that bad.
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 3: They're coming back around now. They're coming back around.
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 4: Nostalgia is bringing them back for sure.
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. they're not that bad.
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 4: Do you know why people like had an issue with
• 2:03:06
  them back in the day? No. Well, so I mean,
• 2:03:09
  this was happening when I was in audio school. So
• 2:03:11
  that was like when YouTube started, you know, uh, Napster
• 2:03:14
  was very big and people were discovering them. I mean,
• 2:03:18
  it's a little bit of opinion based, but there was
• 2:03:20
  a video that came out that went very viral and
• 2:03:22
  that played one Nickelback song in the left speaker and
• 2:03:24
  one in the right speaker. And they lined up very
• 2:03:28
  on the, like every, uh, chord change was kind of
• 2:03:31
  like at the same time. The verses change at the
• 2:03:33
  same time. The formulaic stuff. Yeah, it was very formulaic,
• 2:03:36
  so people just sort of, like, clowned them for being
• 2:03:39
  too formulaic.
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that.
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 4: Engineers would even say that they didn't like that because
• 2:03:44
  they were recording what they call in the box, which
• 2:03:46
  would mean they were recording everything very dry and then
• 2:03:50
  changing all of the effects after the fact. So, like,
• 2:03:53
  nothing that they were playing was, like, live necessarily, and
• 2:03:56
  so some people had a problem with that.
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: I get it. I get it. That said, the songs
• 2:04:00
  were pretty good, but. They're not the Stones.
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 3: White people music.
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 2: They're not Pink Floyd. You know, I get it.
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 3: It's white people music.
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 2: It's 98 IQ.
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 3: Max.
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 2: You can't say that.
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 3: You can't say that.
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I just did.
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 2: That's a good percentage of the population, son.
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 3: Look, I can listen to some 98 IQ music. I
• 2:04:23
  like me some of that.
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 2: What do you think? I mean, Max. I'm saying Max.
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 4: Max.
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, people like, it's okay. You know, you can
• 2:04:30
  have a high IQ and go, that's all right. But
• 2:04:32
  you're like, I'm going to see Nickelback. Wow. What is
• 2:04:35
  high IQ music? Pink Floyd for sure. Well, jazz, I
• 2:04:38
  don't know. You know, jazz is interesting because I know
• 2:04:41
  a couple of dumb people that love jazz. And then
• 2:04:44
  a lot of brilliant people love jazz also. Tool. Tool's
• 2:04:46
  very high IQ music. If you're into like metal, probably
• 2:04:50
  a little disturbed. You're a little disturbed. You're a little
• 2:04:51
  mad at your parents.
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 4: Eric Weinstein brought up the Polyphia.
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 3: I fucking love Polyphia. Tim Henson rules, dude.
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 4: You have to be thinking a lot to even figure
• 2:05:02
  it out.
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 3: It's not passive listening. Polyphia is not passive listening.
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: God, there's a lot of great bands, man.
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 3: I don't know what's high IQ music in that way.
• 2:05:11
  It's popular as well.
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 2: I'm being silly, obviously.
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 3: But I was trying to think about what that would be.
• 2:05:16
  If it was Beethoven, something more refined. I don't know.
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 2: To me, that's the most fascinating music is music when
• 2:05:22
  there was no recordings. I am fascinated by the fact
• 2:05:26
  that these people wrote down music on paper so that
• 2:05:30
  other people could replicate it. And that's how they passed
• 2:05:33
  on these amazing songs that people still play in concerts today.
• 2:05:38
  There was no ability to record.
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 3: Well, think about what stories would have been like before
• 2:05:44
  we had the written word.
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of really popular musicians, rather, not magicians.
• 2:05:50
  musicians who don't know how to read music. They don't
• 2:05:55
  have to.
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 3: And just draw them out on my digital workspace on
• 2:05:59
  my laptop.
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 2: They know how to play an instrument. They know what
• 2:06:03
  the sounds it makes. I don't have to see those
• 2:06:04
  fucking bullshit lines. Fuck is that? Yeah.
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 3: Classically trained. Yeah. I mean, everybody loves the idea of
• 2:06:11
  being a savant Renaissance guy, sort of outside of the
• 2:06:14
  system coming in and, and breaking the rules in that way.
• 2:06:16
  I wonder how often that happens at the highest level.
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 2: Like, The highest level is Hendrix because Hendrix played a
• 2:06:23
  guitar upside down, left-handed. Why? Because he was left-handed. So
• 2:06:29
  he played a right-handed guitar upside down. You ever see
• 2:06:33
  the way he played guitar? I don't know jack shit
• 2:06:35
  about playing guitar, by the way. This was explained to me.
• 2:06:37
  I think Weinstein was the first person to explain it
• 2:06:39
  to me. But pull up Hendrix playing the guitar. He
• 2:06:43
  would play it upside down because it was not built
• 2:06:47
  for him. It didn't matter. He self-taught. And to this day,
• 2:06:52
  widely regarded as the greatest guitarist of all time and
• 2:06:55
  the most influential guitarist by far, the most. Like he
• 2:07:01
  was a freak. Like when he came along, Eric Clapton
• 2:07:04
  famously said that he made him want to quit. That
• 2:07:07
  guitar is upside down, dog.
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 4: Jesus.
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that. Yeah. I mean I don't know
• 2:07:14
  if all of his guitars were upside down or some
• 2:07:16
  of them were actual left-handed guitars.
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 2: But I think he played upside down. Hendrix was left-handed,
• 2:07:22
  but typically used readily available right-handed Stratocasters. He reversed the instrument.
• 2:07:27
  This put the headstock controls, bridge angle, and pickup orientation
• 2:07:31
  in unusual positions relative to a conventional left-handed guitar. Isn't
• 2:07:36
  that wild?
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 2: Look at this. Fender's Hendrix Signature Stratocaster recreates some of
• 2:07:43
  these visual and functional details, including a reverse headstock and
• 2:07:46
  reverse slant bridge pickup. Imagine, like, you're such a Hendrix fan.
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 3: It looks the same, but it's still turned around.
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, I think they did it his way.
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 2: I think they replicated it his way. Because, like, if
• 2:07:59
  you're a fucking. guitar nut and you love Hendrix, I
• 2:08:03
  want to, like, why is this guitar bullshit? The guitar's backwards.
• 2:08:07
  Hendrix doesn't play it like this. I'd want to learn
• 2:08:10
  on a Hendrix guitar. Fuck yeah.
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 3: I've been thinking a lot about, like, how we... assume
• 2:08:17
  that wisdom compounds over time. So I guess not too
• 2:08:20
  dissimilar to that. We have this, uh, epistemic privilege that
• 2:08:23
  we give to a future version of ourselves, right? So
• 2:08:25
  we assume that us now knows more than us in
• 2:08:28
  the past or the us in the future will know
• 2:08:30
  more than us now. And that sort of progress goes
• 2:08:32
  in that way. But for some things like matters of
• 2:08:35
  emotion or important life lessons, especially things around pain, I
• 2:08:40
  didn't think that that's true. So for instance, you could
• 2:08:43
  imagine that you're in a relationship with somebody and it's
• 2:08:44
  really painful. It's really uncomfortable. And after six months, you
• 2:08:48
  bump into them again. And you can't quite remember the
• 2:08:52
  sleepless nights and the way that things felt awkward and
• 2:08:54
  the pain in the same way as you used to.
• 2:08:56
  And you start thinking, well, maybe I should get back
• 2:08:58
  with them. Maybe it wasn't so bad. Or the guy
• 2:09:01
  that works in a very aggressive job, high-powered, high-paced job,
• 2:09:05
  and he's burned out and he can't sleep. And a
• 2:09:08
  year later, he misses the status. He misses the acclaim.
• 2:09:10
  He misses the accolades. He misses the camaraderie of working
• 2:09:13
  in that organization. And he thinks, well, Maybe I could
• 2:09:16
  get back. Maybe I could start again at a competitor.
• 2:09:18
  Maybe I could do that again. Or someone that's been
• 2:09:19
  addicted to alcohol and after they've been sober for a
• 2:09:23
  couple of years, they think, huh, maybe I should run
• 2:09:26
  that back. Maybe it wasn't that big of a deal.
• 2:09:27
  Maybe I can do it again. So there's this sort
• 2:09:30
  of fading affect bias, which is this idea from psychology
• 2:09:34
  that says– Bad memories fade with time, but good memories
• 2:09:37
  don't quite the same way. And it's good because it
• 2:09:40
  protects us from being pinned underneath trauma that happened in
• 2:09:42
  the past. You know, you're not still so worried about
• 2:09:46
  your first rejection from a girl in the same way
• 2:09:48
  as you might have been shortly after that. So bad
• 2:09:51
  memories plus time can equal comedy, but good memories plus
• 2:09:54
  time doesn't usually equal tragedy. It's kind of a way
• 2:09:57
  to think about it. That's great. It's like a psychological
• 2:09:59
  immune system.
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 3: We distance ourselves from things. We minimize them. And it's
• 2:10:04
  a really fundamental part of the way that we deal
• 2:10:06
  with pain and difficulty in life. One of the problems
• 2:10:09
  is it causes us to forget the receipts of why
• 2:10:12
  we did the hard work in the first place. So
• 2:10:16
  if you think about why you worked so hard to
• 2:10:19
  get yourself off of the alcohol, that was because of
• 2:10:21
  the pain that you felt at the time. But the
• 2:10:23
  pain that you felt at the time evaporates the further
• 2:10:26
  that you are away from it, which is the reason
• 2:10:28
  that you actually made all of that work and put
• 2:10:31
  yourself through that process to improve your life. So you
• 2:10:34
  can imagine that healing gets rid of the justification that
• 2:10:37
  made the healing necessary. So it's just this strange inversion
• 2:10:40
  that we always assume us in the future is going
• 2:10:42
  to be better educated than us now. We know more.
• 2:10:45
  Like that's the way that it works. Yeah, of course.
• 2:10:47
  I've accumulated more experience.
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 2: I know more.
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 3: I'm closer to the future version of me, which means
• 2:10:52
  that it's more recent. But in some things, especially matters
• 2:10:55
  of pain, discomfort, emotionality, being in the future actually means
• 2:11:00
  being further away from the evidence. And I often think
• 2:11:03
  about this when you see people that kind of seem
• 2:11:05
  to loop themselves back into bad situations, someone that keeps
• 2:11:08
  on getting back into a bad relationship, someone that keeps
• 2:11:10
  on getting back into a bad relationship with substances or
• 2:11:14
  a job, or they just keep on, they seem to
• 2:11:16
  be stuck. And I don't think it's that they're not moving.
• 2:11:18
  I think it's that they're sort of looping back. They're
• 2:11:20
  forgetting the justification for why they needed to stop doing
• 2:11:23
  this thing. You know, this idea that healing destroys its
• 2:11:26
  receipts and this fading affect bias being kind of the
• 2:11:29
  mechanism that works on it. I found it pretty fascinating
• 2:11:32
  when thinking about observing my friends' lives.
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 2: That is fascinating. But I think there's also an element
• 2:11:37
  of people finding comfort in familiar patterns. And sometimes those
• 2:11:41
  familiar patterns are just failure. They find comfort in failure.
• 2:11:45
  They find comfort in falling off the wagon. It's too difficult.
• 2:11:48
  The stress of not drinking is so strong. It's so much.
• 2:11:51
  They can't handle it. Just give me a fucking drink.
• 2:11:53
  Jesus Christ. There's a lot of people that Just the
• 2:11:57
  pressure of success and not fucking up is so scary
• 2:12:02
  and so daunting and just maintaining that they fall into
• 2:12:05
  these self-destructive patterns.
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 3: Why do you think that's the case?
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know. You'd have to talk to a psychologist.
• 2:12:10
  But it seems to be a reoccurring pattern with people
• 2:12:13
  seeking comfort in familiar patterns that are failure patterns. They're
• 2:12:19
  like maybe it takes pressure off of them to succeed.
• 2:12:22
  Because for some people, the idea of succeeding, the idea
• 2:12:24
  of getting it, it's like it's so overwhelming. It scares them.
• 2:12:29
  It gives them anxiety. It fucks them up all the time.
• 2:12:31
  And when they start doing well, hey, 333 days sober.
• 2:12:34
  And you start saying things like that. And the next
• 2:12:36
  thing just pops into your head. I want a fucking Marlboro.
• 2:12:40
  And I want a beer. And I want to go
• 2:12:43
  to the bar and see my friends. And you just
• 2:12:45
  want to go.
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 3: Well, that feels like comfort, right?
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 3: There is a. a curse with competence. It's interesting when
• 2:12:51
  you see people that are kind of down on their
• 2:12:52
  luck and it makes sense that maybe they might hit
• 2:12:56
  the bottle or they might rely on bad suboptimal habits.
• 2:13:02
  But when someone's really competent and you keep on seeing
• 2:13:04
  them fall back, that's what's particularly interesting. You have a look,
• 2:13:06
  you've got something else. You have an alternative here. That's
• 2:13:09
  what's really interesting to me. But I think that if
• 2:13:12
  you're the sort of person that's good at things and
• 2:13:14
  stuff typically goes well, Success doesn't become a reason for celebration.
• 2:13:19
  It's the minimum level of acceptable performance, right? It's a
• 2:13:22
  curse of competence. Success itself is what you have to
• 2:13:27
  aim for and anything less than success would be a
• 2:13:29
  failure and success itself is nothing more than acceptable. That
• 2:13:34
  creates a really perverse incentive, which is I can only
• 2:13:37
  not lose. I can't ever win. It's this sort of debt.
• 2:13:41
  You wake up every single day behind and only if
• 2:13:43
  you dominate the day perfectly do you get yourself back
• 2:13:46
  up to the minimum level of acceptable performance, which is perfection.
• 2:13:49
  I think the perfectionism is kind of on the rise
• 2:13:52
  at the moment. There's a bunch of studies. I've had
• 2:13:54
  a few guests on the show talking about it and
• 2:13:57
  that is.
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 2: How relatively– what do you mean by it's on.
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 3: The rise versus– Perfectionism. I mean the studies that have
• 2:14:05
  been done on it looking at perfectionism as a personality trait.
• 2:14:08
  There's a few different types of perfectionism. There's personal perfectionism.
• 2:14:12
  I must be perfect. And there's other perfectionism as well
• 2:14:14
  that people around me must be perfect too.
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 2: And that can be particularly– How are they measuring the
• 2:14:20
  effect of perfectionism? Like how are they measuring how people
• 2:14:24
  enacted in their lives?
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 4: If it's on the rise.
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 3: It's a psychological scale. So they can have a survey,
• 2:14:30
  survey questions, things like, if I do not do– if
• 2:14:35
  I don't succeed, that means I'm a failure. I must
• 2:14:38
  ensure that everything is controlled. So there's a criteria list.
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 2: But who are they asking? I mean depending upon who
• 2:14:45
  you're asking, you're going to get a higher version, a
• 2:14:47
  higher number. If you're asking people in West Virginia and
• 2:14:51
  trailer parks versus someone who's working on Wall Street, you
• 2:14:55
  know what I mean? You're going to get different– It's
• 2:14:57
  like what's the sample size?
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 3: I'd like to think that they're doing it representatively. But
• 2:15:02
  you might be right. They might not be. But anyway,
• 2:15:04
  I just– certainly from what I can see, this desire
• 2:15:07
  that people have to– I'm in a capitalist society, meritocracy.
• 2:15:12
  If I can make myself more important, more successful, that
• 2:15:14
  means that I'm going to get accolade.
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 2: Please, please, please.
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 3: And this goes back to the poverty parade thing, right?
• 2:15:18
  If you're walking through business class to get to economy,
• 2:15:21
  you're reminded. You're reminded of your place within the hierarchy.
• 2:15:25
  There's also some really interesting data around if you're in
• 2:15:29
  a high income inequality area, self-objectification by selfies from women
• 2:15:34
  on Instagram goes up. And this is a huge study
• 2:15:38
  by Candice Blake over in Australia. And they did a correlation.
• 2:15:41
  It might have been on Twitter rather than on Instagram.
• 2:15:44
  And they looked at geolocating images, ranked them based on self-objectification,
• 2:15:49
  and then looked at the wealth inequality in that local area.
• 2:15:52
  Higher wealth inequality, more self-objectification.
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 2: Which side is doing the self-objectification? Women, but women that
• 2:16:00
  are poorer or women that are wealthier? All women. All women?
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 3: All women in that area because, and the proposed mechanism is,
• 2:16:07
  you can see not just how high you could climb,
• 2:16:10
  look at the inequality on the top end, but how
• 2:16:12
  low you could potentially fall to on the bottom end.
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 2: Gets you motivated.
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 3: Gets you motivated, yeah. And that is the same thing.
• 2:16:19
  I think it's a similar sort of mechanism. If you
• 2:16:21
  see high inequality, perfectionism is another escape hatch. That's another
• 2:16:25
  ejector seat that you can pull. If you're not going
• 2:16:26
  to use your assets to get you access, maybe you
• 2:16:31
  could just do it yourself. You could bootstrap it yourself
• 2:16:33
  to lift yourself off the launch pad. And yeah, the
• 2:16:36
  perfectionism thing is kind of fascinating to me because I
• 2:16:38
  think it means that people never really get to escape
• 2:16:43
  from the standards that they set. And if you're good
• 2:16:45
  at stuff, it becomes even harder because the minimum level
• 2:16:48
  of acceptable performance is just perfection, right?
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Not sure how I feel about that. First of all,
• 2:16:55
  I think a lot of that has got to be
• 2:16:56
  motivated by social media. That's a big part of it
• 2:16:59
  because now you're getting to see what everybody has, what
• 2:17:01
  everybody's doing. See what they look like, see their house,
• 2:17:03
  see their car, see all these things, these objects of desire.
• 2:17:08
  So that I think accelerates people's desires and wants. And
• 2:17:12
  then you also get unrealistic beauty expectations from the internet,
• 2:17:16
  particularly social media apps that use filters, right? You're getting
• 2:17:19
  a very distorted perception of what people look like. And
• 2:17:21
  so that it probably accelerates the amount of plastic surgery
• 2:17:26
  women get and the amount of things that people are
• 2:17:29
  willing to do, probably the amount of steroids that young
• 2:17:31
  men do, you know, all that stuff. But, you know,
• 2:17:36
  the idea of perfectionism, like what are we talking about?
• 2:17:40
  If you're talking about the pursuit of an excellence of
• 2:17:43
  a sport or of some sort of a discipline, some
• 2:17:47
  sort of a thing you do, people have always done that.
• 2:17:49
  There's always been like outliers who are trying to be
• 2:17:52
  the very best ever at something. You know, that's always
• 2:17:55
  going to be the case. And we celebrate that because when,
• 2:17:58
  you know, there's a guy like Larry Bird that keeps
• 2:18:00
  hitting those three pointers. I was like, fuck. Remember when
• 2:18:02
  I was a kid, people would throw garbage into the
• 2:18:06
  little garbage bins. baskets at school they would go Larry
• 2:18:09
  Bird you know like they wanted to be like Larry
• 2:18:12
  they wanted to be like Michael Jordan they wanted to
• 2:18:14
  be like Mike Tyson people celebrate the outliers they celebrate
• 2:18:18
  these excellent people that stand above and beyond there is.
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 4: An article about it I don't know how they figured
• 2:18:22
  it out yet interesting there's a it's been growing since.
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 2: 1989 this is hilarious perfectionism is a public health risk
• 2:18:31
  it's associated with increased depression and anxiety yeah Yeah, you're
• 2:18:36
  going to be depressed and anxious if you're trying to
• 2:18:39
  achieve perfection. But I don't know if that's bad. Like,
• 2:18:45
  it's really about whether or not you can manage your
• 2:18:47
  fucking mind.
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 3: That's interesting there. So there's perfectionism is increased in different rates.
• 2:18:53
  Perfectionistic concerns, fear of failure, indecisiveness, and fear of being
• 2:18:57
  negatively judged by others increase much faster than perfectionistic strivings,
• 2:19:01
  the motivation to set extremely high standards and work hard
• 2:19:04
  to achieve them. So that's I guess maybe the difference
• 2:19:07
  between what you're thinking about, which is kind of positive perfectionism,
• 2:19:10
  wanting to set a goal and chase after it, as
• 2:19:12
  opposed to fear of failure, indecisiveness, and fear of being
• 2:19:16
  judged negatively by others.
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the big one, right? The fear of being
• 2:19:20
  judged by others is a real fear because of social media.
• 2:19:23
  Go back. Stop. Stop. But when they say it increased
• 2:19:27
  much faster than perfectionist strivings. So the problem with the
• 2:19:31
  perfectionist strivings is then you have to have delayed gratification.
• 2:19:35
  You have to have the ability to say, I don't
• 2:19:37
  want to do this today, but I want this in
• 2:19:40
  the future. So I'm going to do this today so
• 2:19:42
  that in the future I can succeed. That's abstract. That's
• 2:19:46
  hard for a lot of people to grasp if they've
• 2:19:49
  never gone through a process before, if they've never trusted
• 2:19:52
  a process of improvement. This is one of the reasons
• 2:19:55
  why sports are so important for young people or any
• 2:19:58
  kind of pursuit, like learning how to play guitar or
• 2:20:01
  learning anything that's difficult to learn. Because you realize there's
• 2:20:04
  a process. You realize you start off sucky and then
• 2:20:06
  you get better over time. But if you are never
• 2:20:09
  doing anything like that, if you're just existing and you've
• 2:20:12
  never been challenged to try to improve at something that's
• 2:20:15
  very difficult, you don't understand the striving, the perfectionist striving.
• 2:20:20
  And even that term, I don't like that term. Excellence
• 2:20:22
  is a better term. You're striving for excellence. Perfection is
• 2:20:26
  not possible in anything. There's nothing perfect no matter what
• 2:20:32
  you do. There's always going to be a failure. It's
• 2:20:35
  a human error. There's always going to be– you might
• 2:20:37
  get to– here's a perfect example. In games of pool,
• 2:20:43
  like in professional pool matches, the rarest of rare matches
• 2:20:48
  is a match where a guy runs out the entire set.
• 2:20:51
  That means like say if you and I are playing
• 2:20:54
  a race to 10, okay, which means the first guy
• 2:20:57
  to make 10 games in a row. If you're really good,
• 2:21:01
  you might break– And have an open run on the
• 2:21:05
  first rack and break and have an open run on
• 2:21:08
  the second rack and break it up. You might run
• 2:21:10
  10 racks in a row. It's been done. Earl Strickland
• 2:21:13
  did it for a million dollars. He won a million
• 2:21:16
  dollars at a tournament and they wind up fucking him.
• 2:21:19
  But Earl Strickland is like one of the greatest pool
• 2:21:21
  players of all time. But they had a million dollar
• 2:21:24
  insurance policy. If someone could run 10 racks to make
• 2:21:27
  the tournament more exciting, 10 racks in a row, they
• 2:21:29
  won a million dollars. Where Earl Strickland is a mad genius. And, like,
• 2:21:34
  he's one of the greatest players of all time. And
• 2:21:36
  he knew there was a million dollars on the lines.
• 2:21:37
  This motherfucker came focused. And he broke and ran a 10-pack.
• 2:21:41
  And they didn't want to pay him. Like, this is bullshit.
• 2:21:43
  But it was on film. The whole thing's crazy. But
• 2:21:46
  that's 1,000. Nobody does that. And if you do it,
• 2:21:49
  you're going to fall apart in the next game. You'll
• 2:21:52
  have another match, like, the next day. You're never going
• 2:21:54
  to be perfect. You're always going to miss. It's just humans.
• 2:21:58
  There's going to be error. You know... Michael Jordan, as
• 2:22:01
  good as he was, didn't make every basketball. Mike Tyson
• 2:22:05
  lost fights. You're a human. There's no perfection. But there
• 2:22:08
  is excellence. And that's what people are pursuing, really. I
• 2:22:12
  don't like that term.
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 3: Perfectionism. I think what's maybe useful about the term is
• 2:22:17
  that because that is the term, it belies the futility
• 2:22:22
  of pursuing it. It's like in containing it, it kind
• 2:22:26
  of mocks the pursuit of it itself.
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 2: Exactly, because look, it is ridiculous when you're talking about appearance.
• 2:22:32
  It's ridiculous when you talk about frivolous things that are meaningless.
• 2:22:35
  But when you're talking about Magnus Walker playing chess or
• 2:22:38
  Magnus Carlsen playing chess, that means something. Like that's a
• 2:22:42
  crazy thing that that guy is able to do. That
• 2:22:44
  pursuit of extreme excellence is celebrated when Messi plays soccer.
• 2:22:49
  When someone is an outlier, like we love that. So
• 2:22:53
  this idea that you shouldn't love the most excellent of
• 2:22:57
  excellent people that are the most celebrated in society and
• 2:23:00
  there's a problem with people chasing excellence. Like if you're
• 2:23:04
  saying there's a problem with people chasing perfect appearances because
• 2:23:08
  then you get dysmorphia. And you start looking at yourself
• 2:23:11
  all weird. Then you get anorexia or you're getting your
• 2:23:13
  lips done. You don't know they're too big. Yeah, that's
• 2:23:16
  fucked up. That pursuit of perfection is insane. The perfection
• 2:23:19
  of– but we're not capable of achieving perfection. We are
• 2:23:24
  capable of achieving excellence. So if you call it perfection,
• 2:23:27
  it sounds like it's a problem. If you call it
• 2:23:29
  excellence ….
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 3: It sounds like a pursuit.
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 3: Federer, really interesting stat that I found out about him.
• 2:23:36
  He won … maybe about 80, 85% of the matches
• 2:23:41
  that he played across his entire career.
• 2:23:43
  Speaker 2: Crazy.
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 3: But he only won about 56% of the points.
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 2: That's the edge. And you have to be a madman
• 2:23:53
  to work hard enough to beat everybody 85% of the time.
• 2:23:56
  You have to be a madman. How many fucking people
• 2:24:00
  are playing tennis? How many freak athletes are out there
• 2:24:02
  fucking whacking balls all day, doing sprints, lifting weights?
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 3: He lost nearly 50% of the points that he played.
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 2: Crazy.
• 2:24:09
  Speaker 3: I fucking love that stat. Yeah, there's this great line
• 2:24:12
  that the curse of discipline is that every day looks
• 2:24:15
  the same and the curse of indiscipline is that every
• 2:24:17
  year looks the same.
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 2: Ooh, I like that.
• 2:24:21
  Speaker 3: And I've been thinking about the relationship between discipline, motivation,
• 2:24:25
  and obsession. So I think obsession is kind of very misunderstood,
• 2:24:30
  feared by a lot of people, even the people that
• 2:24:32
  have got it sometimes.
• 2:24:34
  Speaker 2: It's also dismissed by people that wish they had it.
• 2:24:38
  and they don't have it, and they mock it.
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 3: How so?
• 2:24:41
  Speaker 2: Because they look at someone who's obsessed with doing something
• 2:24:44
  and they're like, oh, he's fucking lost his whole life
• 2:24:47
  playing that stupid game, or he's given up his whole
• 2:24:50
  life for his music. What's the point? There's a lot
• 2:24:54
  of people that want to dismiss the outliers. Maybe they
• 2:24:57
  don't like the way they stack up against them. If
• 2:25:00
  someone's the best at something, you watch some guy that
• 2:25:03
  can just do this thing that no one else can
• 2:25:05
  do the way He does it. Like there's a bunch
• 2:25:08
  of people that celebrate it for sure. But there's always
• 2:25:10
  going to be a bunch of people that think there's
• 2:25:11
  something wrong with it.
• 2:25:12
  Speaker 3: Being threatened by obsession is kind of interesting. So everybody
• 2:25:15
  wants to– I think it's to do with your relationship
• 2:25:19
  with friction. So discipline is friction accepted. It's like I
• 2:25:24
  will force myself to do the thing regardless of how
• 2:25:27
  hard it is. Motivation would be friction removed, which is
• 2:25:31
  like I want to do the thing. And then obsession
• 2:25:34
  is friction inverted. Like I can't not do the thing.
• 2:25:38
  I'm pulled toward it. It's harder for me to not
• 2:25:41
  train than it is for me to train. It's harder
• 2:25:43
  for me to not play guitar than it is for
• 2:25:45
  me to play guitar. So it's all about that relationship.
• 2:25:48
  And this is why I think people get so confused
• 2:25:51
  because from the outside– obsession can look a lot like
• 2:25:55
  someone just using a shit ton of discipline, just gritting
• 2:25:58
  their teeth and getting through it. What you don't realize
• 2:26:01
  from the inside, they have no choice.
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 3: They have no choice but to do it. All that
• 2:26:05
  they want, they go to sleep thinking about it. They
• 2:26:06
  wake up thinking about it.
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 3: They have no, there is no way that they can
• 2:26:11
  stop themselves from doing this thing. And this is why
• 2:26:13
  it's dangerous. Obsession gets a bad rap because if it's
• 2:26:15
  pointed toward politics or porn or your ex.
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 2: Or video games.
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 3: Or video games or weed or, you know, whatever.
• 2:26:22
  Speaker 2: Anything.
• 2:26:23
  Speaker 3: That becomes very dangerous.
• 2:26:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 3: And this is why some people, and I'm going to
• 2:26:29
  guess that this is you, it's certainly me, some people
• 2:26:32
  have problem-solving brains. They're always kind of rotating a little
• 2:26:36
  Rubik's Cube in their mind, thinking, this is an interesting
• 2:26:40
  challenge for me to face, and how can I change
• 2:26:41
  this thing? How would I fix this thing? Just playing
• 2:26:43
  with ideas or trying to get better at something. They're
• 2:26:45
  always working on something. Someone that's got a problem-solving brain
• 2:26:50
  but doesn't have any good problems to solve will just
• 2:26:52
  chew themselves up. They will eat themselves inside out because
• 2:26:55
  that is when you get obsessed with stuff that you
• 2:26:57
  shouldn't do. That is when you get obsessed with porn
• 2:27:00
  or politics or your toxic ex or that person that
• 2:27:03
  you think that cut you off in traffic and that's
• 2:27:07
  when you chase after them. That is the kind of
• 2:27:09
  problem-solving brain without a good problem to solve. And I
• 2:27:13
  think a lot of people feel a degree of shame
• 2:27:19
  or at the very least like they're marionetted. by this
• 2:27:24
  problem-solving brain, by the speed of what they're going through,
• 2:27:27
  the fact that they're always turning something. They can't really
• 2:27:29
  get it to switch off. And I think a much
• 2:27:31
  easier solution than trying to stop yourself from solving problems
• 2:27:34
  is to just give yourself better problems to solve. It's
• 2:27:37
  to start a business. It's to get a perspective. that
• 2:27:40
  you really care about.
• 2:27:41
  Speaker 2: Right. But this sounds very simplistic though. We're talking about
• 2:27:44
  like a legitimate mental health issue with a lot of
• 2:27:46
  people that don't have the awareness to stop a pattern.
• 2:27:51
  Like there's a lot of people that need a friend
• 2:27:54
  and they don't have any friends and so they need
• 2:27:56
  a counselor. They need someone. They need someone who can
• 2:27:59
  talk to them about what they're doing and give them
• 2:28:00
  some tools as to how to navigate out of it
• 2:28:03
  because there's a lot of people that are just stuck
• 2:28:05
  in that rut.
• 2:28:05
  Speaker 4: I agree.
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 2: And they could be really– like there's people that are
• 2:28:08
  wasting their life gambling. They could be really good at
• 2:28:11
  something else. They could be really good.
• 2:28:13
  Speaker 3: If you applied that effort, that dedication, that obsession to something.
• 2:28:16
  I completely agree. I think the funny thing for anyone
• 2:28:21
  that's on the right side of their obsession, they're applying
• 2:28:23
  it to something that's positive. kind of a nice situation
• 2:28:27
  to realize, hey, you weren't that far away from being
• 2:28:29
  that guy on the street.
• 2:28:31
  Speaker 2: Right, right. If you're honest. With yourself. If you're honest, yeah.
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 3: Your level of obsession could have directed you toward that,
• 2:28:39
  that destruction, that distraction, that self-immolation. You're not that far
• 2:28:47
  away from it. It's the same fuel. It's the same
• 2:28:49
  fuel source.
• 2:28:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just about directing it in a good way.
• 2:28:53
  And figuring out a way that's going to be most
• 2:28:55
  beneficial to you and the people around you. And some
• 2:28:57
  people just aren't good at that problem solving.
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 3: And I think you're right to point to what you
• 2:29:03
  do in childhood. Sport is just, hey, if you work
• 2:29:07
  hard incrementally at these component skills, there is an outcome
• 2:29:11
  in terms of performance that will happen in future.
• 2:29:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 3: These small amounts, these little efforts will contribute to what
• 2:29:18
  you do. When you get there, there's delayed gratification. Step
• 2:29:21
  by step by step, you work up. And it's just–
• 2:29:24
  it kind of lays the physics of the system. Yes.
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 2: Right? Okay.
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 3: And then you get into adulthood and you go, well,
• 2:29:29
  I understand. Like, delaying gratification is important. I can win
• 2:29:31
  the marshmallow test today, which means I can get something
• 2:29:33
  that I want in future. I need to think over
• 2:29:37
  a longer time horizon. Typically, I can use my– like,
• 2:29:41
  another thing that's kind of fascinating about that obsession piece
• 2:29:43
  is when you look at someone like Jocko as a
• 2:29:46
  good example– What looks like discipline is probably just who
• 2:29:54
  he is. The 4.30 a.m. thing, the kettlebell swings, the training.
• 2:29:58
  At one point, he was obsessed by that. That was
• 2:30:01
  probably what he thought about most. I know it was
• 2:30:04
  when he was still in the SEALs. That was what
• 2:30:06
  he wanted. He wanted to get as big and as
• 2:30:07
  jacked and as lethal as possible. I don't think that's
• 2:30:10
  quite his priority in the same way now. But what
• 2:30:12
  you see, if you allow yourself to have positive obsessions
• 2:30:16
  and for them to cool down, over time, you basically
• 2:30:19
  start to build up these layers of a pyramid, which is, well,
• 2:30:23
  I'm not obsessed by training, but I used to when
• 2:30:26
  I was in my twenties. And now my training obsession
• 2:30:29
  is just who I am. It's cooled like a, like
• 2:30:32
  lava's sort of cooled into the core of this planet.
• 2:30:35
  And it's now who I've become. So my training is
• 2:30:38
  just part of my life. And then, okay, what was
• 2:30:40
  the net? Well, I started to learn. I wanted to
• 2:30:43
  tell the truth. I wanted to be an upstanding person.
• 2:30:46
  So I started to maybe go to therapy or I
• 2:30:49
  worked on my mental health a little bit more. And okay,
• 2:30:51
  that's now cool. That was an obsession for a while.
• 2:30:53
  And now I've moved on to the next thing. And
• 2:30:55
  I really wanted to build this skill. I wanted to
• 2:30:56
  become a good father. So I worked out how I
• 2:30:58
  could deal with my emotions when interacting with my kids.
• 2:31:01
  And now I've got that skill. Over time, serial obsessives,
• 2:31:05
  I think, whether it's in business or in training or
• 2:31:07
  in personal development, what you end up with is this
• 2:31:09
  unbelievably powerful, Well-rounded person. But if you don't allow yourself
• 2:31:14
  to wear that obsession for a while, and a lot
• 2:31:17
  of the time when people get obsessed with stuff, they
• 2:31:19
  feel guilty. They feel a little ashamed of it. They
• 2:31:23
  want to push back against it, but it's the freest
• 2:31:25
  discipline and motivation you're ever going to get. You're never
• 2:31:28
  going to find.
• 2:31:28
  Speaker 2: Who feels guilty about being obsessed about things?
• 2:31:31
  Speaker 3: I think sometimes people do.
• 2:31:32
  Speaker 2: About good things?
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 3: The mockery of your friends around you. Oh, dude, are
• 2:31:36
  we going to go and play guitar again, are we? Oh,
• 2:31:38
  are we going to go and– oh, you little music thing.
• 2:31:40
  Speaker 2: Is that going well? Oh, man. Anybody who falls victim
• 2:31:43
  to that, you deserve it. Because– That's so silly.
• 2:31:48
  Speaker 3: You need to stand up for what it is that
• 2:31:49
  you want.
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 2: All the times in my life when I've been obsessed
• 2:31:53
  by things, if anybody tried to mock me being obsessed
• 2:31:56
  by it, I'd be like, fuck you. Who cares what
• 2:31:58
  you think? I couldn't have cared less.
• 2:32:01
  Speaker 3: That's interesting. I don't know whether it's a British– the mockery,
• 2:32:05
  the tall poppy thing is a huge part of British culture.
• 2:32:09
  If you diverge from the normal path, it is– we
• 2:32:12
  have the same number of universities in the top ten globally.
• 2:32:17
  but we produce 20% of the entrepreneurs compared with America.
• 2:32:21
  And I think that a lot of that is.
• 2:32:23
  Speaker 2: Attitude.
• 2:32:25
  Speaker 3: It's not... Fucking Cambridge, King's London, Oxford. These aren't rinky-dink organizations.
• 2:32:31
  They attract unbelievable talent. Why is it that we're not
• 2:32:34
  producing the same kind of orthogonal thinker, self-starter, sovereign, high-agency
• 2:32:41
  people that you might get out of America? I think
• 2:32:44
  a lot of it is It's just not as encouraged.
• 2:32:46
  It's not and it's a shame. And I wish that
• 2:32:48
  I could like gift some of the enthusiasm back to
• 2:32:51
  the– like Americans basically have permanent first-line cocaine energy. It's
• 2:32:56
  just like so enthusiastic about everything.
• 2:33:01
  Speaker 2: Some Americans.
• 2:33:02
  Speaker 3: That's true. But I just– I wish that I could
• 2:33:04
  get that back. I wish I could push that back
• 2:33:05
  toward the UK. It's something that would make a massive difference. Sure.
• 2:33:10
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it would. But it's very difficult to change
• 2:33:12
  the way a whole country thinks. It's like the attitude
• 2:33:16
  of the country. The attitude of this country is you
• 2:33:18
  could make it here. Like you could– everybody feels like
• 2:33:22
  they're just a few good deals away from being rich.
• 2:33:26
  Just a– they're a millionaire that just hasn't made it yet.
• 2:33:30
  Speaker 3: Like that's– You don't expect to be able to become much.
• 2:33:39
  It's a very class system still over there. When you're
• 2:33:41
  a kid, you're not told that you can be anything
• 2:33:43
  that you want to be. If you diverge from the path,
• 2:33:45
  one of the first things that happens is, what are
• 2:33:46
  you doing that for? It's a stupid idea. Good in
• 2:33:50
  some ways because it keeps your feet on the ground,
• 2:33:52
  but bad in other ways because it means that you
• 2:33:53
  don't go for it. You don't take the big swings
• 2:33:55
  in the same way. In the U.S., I get the
• 2:33:57
  sense that kids that are told you can be anything
• 2:34:00
  you want to be, the American dream is still very
• 2:34:02
  much alive. If you work hard, you can raise yourself up,
• 2:34:04
  pick yourself up by your bootstraps and become something, okay?
• 2:34:08
  what happens if you arrive in adulthood and you're not
• 2:34:12
  given that which you felt you were promised as a kid? Well,
• 2:34:16
  that feels like someone's taken it away from you. That
• 2:34:19
  feels like someone's stolen your rightful, your promise. This is
• 2:34:23
  the same reason, interestingly enough, the same reason why Korea,
• 2:34:28
  the women in Korea are some of the most left-leaning
• 2:34:30
  in the world, supposedly, that they were given equal access
• 2:34:34
  to education over the last few decades. And that meant
• 2:34:38
  that as a quite patriarchal society, they were constrained, not
• 2:34:44
  able to access education in the same way. They finally
• 2:34:47
  get into it. They're emancipated. They're getting degrees and higher
• 2:34:49
  education at the same rate as the men. And then
• 2:34:51
  they get into the real world and all of the
• 2:34:54
  employment opportunities haven't caught up. And it's still very sexist
• 2:34:58
  when it comes to the way that employment and promotions
• 2:35:01
  and wages, there's still a big wage gap there and
• 2:35:04
  what that means is in the same way as the
• 2:35:05
  American child that was promised all of this stuff as
• 2:35:07
  a kid doesn't get delivered it when they become an
• 2:35:09
  adult a lot of the women in Korea it seems
• 2:35:12
  were promised a lot through their education and then they
• 2:35:15
  arrive and the rug feels like it's being pulled out
• 2:35:18
  from underneath them by a workforce that is still kind
• 2:35:24
  of in the dark in their equivalent of the dark
• 2:35:26
  ages but this is people throw their toys out of
• 2:35:28
  the pram why would they not I think I think
• 2:35:31
  that I deserve this And yeah, the victimhood culture in
• 2:35:35
  America is– I don't know. I wish I could take
• 2:35:38
  some of the bits of America and put them in
• 2:35:40
  the UK and some of the bits of the UK
• 2:35:41
  and put them in America and I think we'd end
• 2:35:42
  up– that was what it used to be.
• 2:35:43
  Speaker 2: Fuck it.
• 2:35:43
  Speaker 3: We'll just bring it back together again.
• 2:35:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're always going to have people that
• 2:35:50
  are dissatisfied with their station in life. The question is
• 2:35:53
  like were they equipped with the tools to create a
• 2:35:57
  better life when they were younger? And whether they were
• 2:36:00
  equipped by their family– Or were they equipped by whatever
• 2:36:04
  thing they got into, a sport they got into when
• 2:36:07
  they were young? Or some sort of a discipline where
• 2:36:10
  they realized this– it's really important that kids realize at
• 2:36:14
  an early age about a process of improvement. Trusting the process.
• 2:36:18
  That's a common phrase that you hear when it comes
• 2:36:20
  to anything that you're trying to do that's difficult in
• 2:36:21
  this country. Trust the process. Trust the process. You hear
• 2:36:24
  about that with coaches, coaches. Like in MMA fighters, they're
• 2:36:28
  always saying that. We've got to trust the process. There's
• 2:36:31
  a process of buildup up to a big fight. There's
• 2:36:33
  a process of improvement to get your black belt. There's
• 2:36:36
  a process of improvement as you rise through the amateur
• 2:36:39
  ranks into a professional ranks. You've got to do things
• 2:36:41
  the right way and keep doing them and you're going
• 2:36:43
  to get better. Some people never learn that. And then
• 2:36:45
  they get to a point where they think things should
• 2:36:48
  have already happened and why haven't things happened for me?
• 2:36:50
  And then they get angry. And it's– A lot of
• 2:36:54
  it is it's very difficult to find a good environment,
• 2:36:58
  very difficult to find like-minded people that are empowering. When
• 2:37:02
  you're around them, you feel better. You feel motivated. You
• 2:37:04
  feel inspired. That's also hugely critical for people. It's like
• 2:37:11
  people want to think, oh, I'm a lone wolf. Fuck off.
• 2:37:14
  There's no one like that. That's all bullshit. Those people
• 2:37:17
  are very depressed.
• 2:37:18
  Speaker 3: Why do you think the trust thing comes from? Trust. Yeah,
• 2:37:21
  the trust of the process. that I think a lot
• 2:37:24
  of people want.
• 2:37:26
  Speaker 2: It's people that have done it before. You have to
• 2:37:28
  learn from people that have already done it. Like, if
• 2:37:30
  you're learning from a wrestling coach, you're learning from a
• 2:37:32
  coach that wrestled. There's no wrestling coaches that didn't wrestle.
• 2:37:35
  They all wrestle and that you learn from them that
• 2:37:38
  there's a process and this is what you're going to
• 2:37:40
  do and this is how we're going to get better.
• 2:37:42
  And trust me, when week three comes along and you
• 2:37:44
  can run this hill a lot easier than you run
• 2:37:47
  it today, you're going to be thankful for these 5 a.m. practices. Like, yes, sir.
• 2:37:51
  You've got to trust the process. And if you have
• 2:37:53
  a good coach, the good coach will show you at
• 2:37:56
  every step of the way as you're improving. You'll hit
• 2:37:58
  a move and he'll say, you see how smooth you
• 2:38:00
  hit that? You couldn't hit that move last month. So true.
• 2:38:02
  Speaker 3: It's so true. The inability to be able to see
• 2:38:05
  your own progress, to be able to see what you're doing.
• 2:38:07
  I think for a lot of people, Goals are contracts
• 2:38:10
  to self-criticize until we succeed. And that's how people whip
• 2:38:14
  themselves into submission. And that's the problem with the perfectionism
• 2:38:16
  side of things, as opposed to excellence, right? If you
• 2:38:19
  were to say, I am not enough unless I am perfect,
• 2:38:22
  as opposed to I am good if I keep improving.
• 2:38:25
  That seems to be one of the differences between the two.
• 2:38:27
  But yeah, goals being contracts to self-criticize until we succeed,
• 2:38:33
  that's not what a coach would do. I'm sure that
• 2:38:34
  wasn't when you were teaching fucking taekwondo. And someone for
• 2:38:37
  the first time manages to land this kick or they
• 2:38:39
  win a– it's really, really close. You can pick out
• 2:38:43
  the elements. But so many people have got coaches in
• 2:38:46
  their mind that are– that only ever focusing on the negatives.
• 2:38:50
  Speaker 2: If you have a good coach and you're in a
• 2:38:53
  sport with a bunch of other people that are doing well,
• 2:38:56
  it's like statistically proven that your level will be higher
• 2:39:00
  than someone who has a bad coach that's around other
• 2:39:04
  people that aren't as good. That's just how it always is.
• 2:39:06
  The best athletes always come from the great programs. Whether
• 2:39:09
  it's Oklahoma State University, wrestling, or whatever the fuck it is.
• 2:39:13
  There's always a bunch of different killers that come from
• 2:39:16
  a great environment with great coaching. People don't have that
• 2:39:19
  in life. If you had great coaching in life and
• 2:39:23
  you were surrounded by a bunch of other fucking Division
• 2:39:25
  I All-Americans who are getting after it every day, you
• 2:39:29
  would be motivated. But most people aren't. And this is
• 2:39:32
  part of the problem. Most people are surrounded by equally
• 2:39:35
  lost people who are sad and it's hard to rise above.
• 2:39:40
  It's hard to say, I don't want to go to
• 2:39:42
  the bar because I'm working on writing this book and
• 2:39:45
  I need to write this book. Oh, you're going to
• 2:39:46
  fucking write the book and you're going to ignore your boys.
• 2:39:49
  Like click. You gotta, you gotta know when to find
• 2:39:53
  people that are productive and healthy and are doing things
• 2:39:56
  similar to what you're doing things where you're like pursuing
• 2:39:59
  something that you really enjoy and not just waste your
• 2:40:02
  fucking life away drinking every day. Like a lot of
• 2:40:04
  people will do.
• 2:40:05
  Speaker 3: That perspective is hard to come by though.
• 2:40:06
  Speaker 4: It is.
• 2:40:07
  Speaker 3: Because you need to break out of the frame that
• 2:40:09
  you're in already. This is the lonely chapter thing that
• 2:40:11
  I'm kind of obsessed with. You're so developed that you
• 2:40:14
  don't resonate with your old set of friends. But you're
• 2:40:16
  not yet sufficiently developed that you've built up your new
• 2:40:19
  set of friends. And there's this temptation to go back,
• 2:40:22
  to go back to the old patterns, the old habits,
• 2:40:24
  the old modes of reassurance.
• 2:40:26
  Speaker 2: Just like we were talking about with drug addicts falling
• 2:40:28
  off the wagon because it's like it's easier. It's easier
• 2:40:30
  to fail.
• 2:40:31
  Speaker 3: It is simpler. And I guess– What's interesting, thinking about
• 2:40:37
  choosing a new direction and having a degree of self-assurance,
• 2:40:42
  like living your life by design as opposed to default
• 2:40:46
  is one of the most important things. But I wonder
• 2:40:49
  whether people that are in an environment where they don't
• 2:40:52
  have any good role models, like I didn't grow up
• 2:40:54
  in a particularly like salubrious part of the UK. It's
• 2:40:58
  the most working class town in the back end of
• 2:41:00
  the northeast of England. And There weren't that many people
• 2:41:03
  around me when I grew up that were like the
• 2:41:05
  person I wanted to be like. But there were fucking
• 2:41:07
  lots of people like the person I didn't want to
• 2:41:09
  be like. I didn't want his relationship with gambling. I
• 2:41:11
  didn't want the way that he kept on cheating on
• 2:41:13
  his wife. I didn't like the fact that he used
• 2:41:14
  alcohol to deal with his emotional problems. So yeah, would
• 2:41:18
  it be nice if you had the D1 sports coach
• 2:41:22
  as your next door neighbor every morning telling you that
• 2:41:24
  you can, we should go for a run because little
• 2:41:26
  Timmy's going for a run as well. Yeah, that'd be awesome.
• 2:41:28
  But if you don't have it and you've got some
• 2:41:30
  people around you that are reverse role models, You can
• 2:41:32
  quite easily– you can make a lot of progress in
• 2:41:35
  life by avoiding pitfalls, not just expediting success.
• 2:41:38
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 2:41:39
  Speaker 3: By weaving away from the things that you know that
• 2:41:41
  you don't want.
• 2:41:42
  Speaker 2: The problem is a lot of those people will try
• 2:41:44
  to drag you down. And if you're in close proximity
• 2:41:48
  to them and you have to interact with them on
• 2:41:50
  a regular basis, it could trip you up. But, yeah,
• 2:41:52
  a lot of people get motivated by– like if you're
• 2:41:54
  around people that are alcoholics and you see them ruin
• 2:41:56
  their life. Like I have a friend who's– Family was
• 2:41:58
  alcoholics and he's never had a drink his whole life.
• 2:42:01
  It's like I won't touch that shit ever. He saw
• 2:42:03
  it wreck people's lives, never had a desire to have alcohol.
• 2:42:08
  So that was– and he became very successful. So he
• 2:42:12
  figured out a way to just avoid all the problems
• 2:42:14
  that all those people had. They motivated him. But it's
• 2:42:16
  better to be motivated by someone who's doing something you
• 2:42:19
  aspire to.
• 2:42:20
  Speaker 3: As opposed to trying to avoid something that's going wrong.
• 2:42:22
  Speaker 2: I think the option that people have now that was
• 2:42:25
  never available before is you could hear people that you
• 2:42:28
  are– that you admire or that you aspire to be
• 2:42:33
  like what they are. You could hear them on the
• 2:42:35
  internet now. There's way more access to inspiration than ever before.
• 2:42:39
  When you have some high achiever who goes on a
• 2:42:41
  podcast and has a conversation about something that they do
• 2:42:45
  and you can realize how this guy built his company
• 2:42:47
  or built his life or became this amazing athlete and
• 2:42:50
  what they went through. You can learn from conversations that
• 2:42:55
  you're not in the room with. You don't get a
• 2:42:58
  chance to hang out with David Goggins or whatever, but
• 2:43:02
  you get a chance to listen to him talk now
• 2:43:04
  where it just wasn't available before. For all the different outliers,
• 2:43:08
  like we were talking about Larry Bird before. Who the
• 2:43:10
  fuck was Larry Bird listening to? He had to be
• 2:43:12
  listening to the other basketball players that were playing with
• 2:43:15
  him that were all a bunch of killers. Like that
• 2:43:17
  was the only way he got good. Like he didn't
• 2:43:19
  have the internet. He couldn't just go on YouTube and
• 2:43:21
  find inspirational quotes. You know, he couldn't listen to an
• 2:43:24
  Alan Watts lecture and have a new perspective on life.
• 2:43:27
  It was harder. It's a lot harder. It's a lot
• 2:43:29
  easier now. It's a lot easier now to be inspired.
• 2:43:32
  It's a lot easier now to also have examples of
• 2:43:34
  people that are living a life that is aligned with
• 2:43:37
  what you're looking for versus what you see around you
• 2:43:40
  all the time. You don't just accept it anymore. People–
• 2:43:43
  there's a lot more people now that are like I've
• 2:43:45
  got to get the fuck away from these people.
• 2:43:47
  Speaker 3: Well, because the alternative is that you're fortunately like serendipitously
• 2:43:52
  just born into a culture where there's some people like
• 2:43:56
  the person you want to be like right next to you.
• 2:43:58
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:43:58
  Speaker 3: Like how many people that are excellent individuals that are
• 2:44:02
  going to go on to try– that have the capacity
• 2:44:03
  to go on to do something incredible– are around other
• 2:44:06
  people that are like that too.
• 2:44:08
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:44:08
  Speaker 3: Because by design, you're an outlier. So if you're an outlier,
• 2:44:11
  there's going to be fewer people like you. Being able
• 2:44:13
  to hear people say– I remember I was listening to
• 2:44:16
  a pod a while ago and there was this line
• 2:44:20
  on it. I think it was Mel Robbins that said
• 2:44:22
  something like, all my life I'd always felt like someone
• 2:44:25
  was mad at me.
• 2:44:26
  Speaker 2: I was like, huh.
• 2:44:28
  Speaker 3: I've never heard anybody put it that way before.
• 2:44:30
  Speaker 2: All my life I'd ever– Did Mel Robbins say this?
• 2:44:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:44:33
  Speaker 2: I've never listened to her podcast, but Tim Dillon was
• 2:44:36
  making fun of her today, and it was the funniest
• 2:44:38
  shit I've ever heard in my life.
• 2:44:39
  Speaker 3: I listened to that, too.
• 2:44:39
  Speaker 2: He goes, she makes Gary Vee sound like Aristotle. Tim
• 2:44:48
  Dillon is the best. He's the best.
• 2:44:51
  Speaker 3: Have you seen Gary Vee's talking about Vee Friends recently?
• 2:44:54
  Did you see this, Jamie?
• 2:44:55
  Speaker 4: No.
• 2:44:56
  Speaker 3: Have a little– this– I don't want to watch this.
• 2:44:57
  Speaker 2: OK. Don't make me do this.
• 2:44:59
  Speaker 3: OK.
• 2:44:59
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 2:44:59
  Speaker 3: Well, you made me watch a leg kick.
• 2:45:01
  Speaker 2: He's a nice guy. Yeah.
• 2:45:02
  Speaker 4: Gary's a nice guy.
• 2:45:02
  Speaker 2: I've had him on the podcast before.
• 2:45:04
  Speaker 3: Well, maybe we don't need to learn about that. Anyway,
• 2:45:05
  just– my point is regardless of who it comes from,
• 2:45:08
  you can find inspiration in a variety of places.
• 2:45:10
  Speaker 2: You certainly can. But there's more now than ever before.
• 2:45:15
  And there's never a time in human history where you
• 2:45:17
  could be more inspired. You just have to seek it.
• 2:45:19
  But you also have to avoid the tricks. There's a
• 2:45:22
  whole bunch of things that are going to trick you
• 2:45:23
  and steal your attention. You got to avoid the nonsense.
• 2:45:26
  Avoid the nonsense on social media and just find things
• 2:45:29
  that– your time is very valuable. And the same feeling
• 2:45:34
  that you get out of watching– like the same dopamine
• 2:45:37
  rush that you get from watching a TikTok video that
• 2:45:39
  means nothing, you also get from watching a YouTube video
• 2:45:42
  where you're going to learn something. It's like it's just
• 2:45:44
  as interesting.
• 2:45:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Talking about the thing.
• 2:45:46
  Speaker 2: More so.
• 2:45:47
  Speaker 3: Talking about the thing and doing the thing vie for
• 2:45:49
  the same resources. So you need to allocate yours appropriately.
• 2:45:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:45:53
  Speaker 3: Like how many people– are just great at talking about
• 2:45:56
  how their plans are going to go. This is what's
• 2:45:57
  going to happen next. I can't wait. I can't wait
• 2:46:00
  for this new business that's going to go. And it
• 2:46:02
  never happens.
• 2:46:03
  Speaker 2: Were you around when The Secret was a big movie
• 2:46:06
  and a bunch of people really believed that they could
• 2:46:08
  just sort of manifest their life by thinking about it?
• 2:46:11
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:46:11
  Speaker 2: That was a fascinating time.
• 2:46:13
  Speaker 3: You know that lady said that the reason the Boxing
• 2:46:16
  Day tsunami happened in Thailand was because the citizens were
• 2:46:21
  giving off bad juju. She basically– said that they'd manifested
• 2:46:25
  it was like thousands tens of thousands of people displaced
• 2:46:29
  because of a tsunami that happened on boxing day imagine
• 2:46:32
  yeah i don't believe in that ah dude the the
• 2:46:35
  crazy thing is the secret the visualization stuff which i'm
• 2:46:38
  sure tons and tons of the athletes that you've worked
• 2:46:40
  with or that you commentate on so many of them
• 2:46:42
  are using visualization but people forget that you need to
• 2:46:46
  actually go and do the work as well you'd think
• 2:46:48
  like um God will steer the boat, but you still
• 2:46:51
  have to row as opposed to, you can just sit
• 2:46:53
  in the boat and think about it and you'll get
• 2:46:55
  road there yourself. And that's the issue. The issue is
• 2:46:58
  that people want a shortcut. And if you can give
• 2:47:00
  them a shortcut. Yeah.
• 2:47:01
  Speaker 2: I think the visualization and the belief is an element.
• 2:47:06
  It's an element. If you can never see yourself succeeding,
• 2:47:09
  you'll probably fuck it up somehow. But if you can
• 2:47:12
  see yourself succeeding and you have a direct plan and
• 2:47:14
  you also put in the work, your odds of success
• 2:47:16
  are higher. That's all it is. But, the people that
• 2:47:20
  have said that they use the secret to succeed, they're
• 2:47:23
  only the people that used it and it worked. How
• 2:47:26
  many people used it and it didn't work? Probably a
• 2:47:28
  fuckload more.
• 2:47:29
  Speaker 3: Survivorship bias is a hell of a drug.
• 2:47:31
  Speaker 2: It is a hell of a drug.
• 2:47:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I– Yeah, it's one thing to get what you want,
• 2:47:37
  but it's another thing to want what's worth getting in life.
• 2:47:39
  Speaker 2: A lot of people believe that it was like God's
• 2:47:41
  will for them to succeed. I knew God had a
• 2:47:45
  plan for me. Okay. Does God have a plan for
• 2:47:47
  that dude who's doing heroin in the corner? What about
• 2:47:50
  the guy that's pissing on himself on Skid Row? Does
• 2:47:54
  God have a plan for that guy? God doesn't like him.
• 2:47:57
  I didn't like him when he was a baby. I
• 2:47:58
  don't like him now. Fuck that guy. Give him fentanyl.
• 2:48:01
  How do you.
• 2:48:03
  Speaker 3: How do you come to sort of think about the
• 2:48:05
  unfairness of the hands that are being dealt? Because when
• 2:48:07
  I think about that, it does make me really sad.
• 2:48:09
  It makes me sad to think about how unfortunate some
• 2:48:11
  people's like decks of cards.
• 2:48:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, man. Oh, yeah. I mean, you can get
• 2:48:16
  born to a pair of junkies. Two junkies can have
• 2:48:20
  sex on Skid Row and you're born addicted to fentanyl
• 2:48:25
  right out of the box and your life is fucked
• 2:48:28
  versus if you have a child. You're a great guy.
• 2:48:30
  You're educated. You're interesting. You're intelligent. Your kid's going to
• 2:48:33
  grow up with a cool dad. It's like it's not fair.
• 2:48:36
  It's not even remotely fair. And we don't do enough
• 2:48:41
  to fucking mitigate the unfairness. And I don't mean in
• 2:48:46
  terms of like redistribution of wealth or anything like that.
• 2:48:49
  Making sure there's not that level of despair and poverty
• 2:48:53
  in a functional society. And the fact that there's almost
• 2:48:57
  no effort no real concerted effort to clean up any
• 2:49:02
  of these problems that we have had for decades upon
• 2:49:04
  decades upon decades in our cities. It's kind of crazy.
• 2:49:08
  The amount of money we spent on other things, we
• 2:49:10
  could have fixed that a long time ago. You know,
• 2:49:14
  there's a lot of conspiracies about that too, that they
• 2:49:16
  don't want that because if more people become educated and
• 2:49:19
  more people become ambitious, it's going to be harder to
• 2:49:21
  fuck them over. It's going to be harder to Forced
• 2:49:24
  them to pay taxes for an inefficient government that's stealing.
• 2:49:27
  Speaker 3: People ask too many questions. Yes.
• 2:49:29
  Speaker 2: Too many competent people. You won't be able to keep
• 2:49:31
  your job being an incompetent legislator. There's a lot of
• 2:49:35
  theories about why schools suck so hard and there's so
• 2:49:39
  little money being put into schools. When you think about
• 2:49:41
  the amount of power. That a teacher has over a child.
• 2:49:48
  You're working all day, okay? You're at work. Your kid
• 2:49:51
  is with another adult and then a different adult and
• 2:49:55
  then the next hour and a different adult the next hour.
• 2:49:57
  And they're shaping their worldview for a solid seven, eight
• 2:50:01
  hours a day.
• 2:50:01
  Speaker 3: More than you.
• 2:50:02
  Speaker 2: Five days a week. More than you. You're working all day.
• 2:50:05
  So you come home like, what did they teach you
• 2:50:06
  in school?
• 2:50:07
  Speaker 4: What?
• 2:50:08
  Speaker 2: Daddy, they taught me I could be anything I want.
• 2:50:10
  I could be a girl. Oh, God. Daddy, they taught
• 2:50:14
  me how important communism is. What? Ah, fuck. And what
• 2:50:18
  are you going to do? You're going to go to
• 2:50:19
  the school and you're going to yell at the meeting.
• 2:50:20
  And what do they do when that happens? They turn
• 2:50:22
  the parents into terrorists. They say the parents are terrorists. Why?
• 2:50:28
  They've called parents terrorists for showing up at school board
• 2:50:34
  meetings and yelling that they don't want their kids being
• 2:50:37
  taught about sexuality or they don't want their kids being
• 2:50:39
  taught about this. Yeah, so there's school boards that have
• 2:50:44
  tried to censor parents and have tried to like label
• 2:50:47
  them domestic terrorists for trying to interrupt meetings and say
• 2:50:50
  that they don't want their children being taught these ways.
• 2:50:53
  And so then what are your options? You homeschool. You
• 2:50:55
  got to– oh, I don't have the time. Fuck.
• 2:50:58
  Speaker 3: A huge amount of cost.
• 2:50:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:50:59
  Speaker 3: Dude, it is– It's weird.
• 2:51:02
  Speaker 2: It's weird out there, man.
• 2:51:03
  Speaker 3: The state of the US education system at the moment
• 2:51:06
  seems fucking wild. There were these studies that came out
• 2:51:08
  of Illinois. Basically no one– in high school could read
• 2:51:12
  like a fourth grade level. It's fucking insane. I saw
• 2:51:15
  a video of a teacher crying that none of the
• 2:51:18
  students were even remotely competent.
• 2:51:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:51:21
  Speaker 2: What is a state that just because students were doing
• 2:51:24
  so bad, they completely dropped their standards? Was it Oregon?
• 2:51:28
  I forget what governor, but like ridiculously dropped their standards
• 2:51:34
  for reading and math. Yeah. Yeah. It's not good. I
• 2:51:38
  mean that should be something we're really concentrating on. It
• 2:51:42
  should be a really important thing in our world that's
• 2:51:47
  discussed every day versus whether or not men can play
• 2:51:50
  in the WNBA.
• 2:51:51
  Speaker 3: Meanwhile, Penn State had a cocaine ring at one of
• 2:51:56
  the fraternities. Do you see that?
• 2:51:58
  Speaker 2: A ring?
• 2:51:58
  Speaker 3: Cocaine ring.
• 2:51:59
  Speaker 2: What do you mean a ring?
• 2:52:00
  Speaker 3: Like two different fraternities.
• 2:52:02
  Speaker 2: Were– Were selling cocaine?
• 2:52:03
  Speaker 3: Oh, not just selling cocaine. They were driving to Philadelphia
• 2:52:06
  and back and New York and back. to create a
• 2:52:08
  huge cartel for this massive, massive scandal. The dad of
• 2:52:12
  one of the guys that was the leader of it
• 2:52:15
  is some attorney dude that was covering it up, putting
• 2:52:18
  money and drugs in the safe. And the pledges that
• 2:52:21
  were pledging to go into the fraternities were made to
• 2:52:24
  cut and bag the cocaine.
• 2:52:25
  Speaker 2: That's hilarious.
• 2:52:27
  Speaker 3: Free labor.
• 2:52:28
  Speaker 2: What school was this?
• 2:52:29
  Speaker 3: Penn State.
• 2:52:30
  Speaker 2: My God.
• 2:52:31
  Speaker 3: 14 people arrested, including one of them that was the dad.
• 2:52:34
  This kid's got like a gazillion charges for it.
• 2:52:37
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, they're just entrepreneurs.
• 2:52:39
  Speaker 3: Look, we need to encourage an entrepreneurial spirit.
• 2:52:44
  Speaker 2: Entrepreneurs in a bad direction. It's like what we were
• 2:52:46
  talking about before. Obsession in the wrong direction.
• 2:52:48
  Speaker 3: Why? Penn State's great for wrestling, right? Why don't you
• 2:52:51
  go and do wrestling?
• 2:52:52
  Speaker 2: Or imagine if they put all that effort into a
• 2:52:54
  legitimate business. Yeah. They'd probably be getting out of college
• 2:52:57
  already wealthy.
• 2:52:58
  Speaker 3: Speaking of that, did you see Ben Askren return to
• 2:53:02
  wrestling one year after his?
• 2:53:03
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 2:53:04
  Speaker 2: Yes. Dude. Crazy.
• 2:53:05
  Speaker 3: I had him on the pod like two weeks before
• 2:53:06
  he went.
• 2:53:07
  Speaker 2: I can't believe he did it. It's so nuts with
• 2:53:09
  two lung replacements. He's got– I mean he's got lung donations.
• 2:53:16
  Like somebody gave him lungs.
• 2:53:18
  Speaker 4: Immunosuppressant.
• 2:53:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He has to be on immunosuppressants so his body
• 2:53:22
  doesn't reject the lungs. But having lung transplants is crazy.
• 2:53:26
  Having two is really crazy. And then wrestling a year
• 2:53:30
  later is just beyond insane.
• 2:53:32
  Speaker 3: He never looked at what the surgery was that he got.
• 2:53:35
  He doesn't know how they did it. So I went
• 2:53:37
  and had a look and it's the full breast. It's
• 2:53:40
  like you're spread-eagled from reverse.
• 2:53:42
  Speaker 2: Like a fish. Dude, I got to pee and we
• 2:53:46
  got to wrap this up. All right. Christopher, it's always
• 2:53:48
  a good time to see you.
• 2:53:49
  Speaker 3: Appreciate you, man.
• 2:53:50
  Speaker 2: Appreciate you too. Tell everybody your podcast, where they can
• 2:53:53
  get it. Well, they can watch it.
• 2:53:54
  Speaker 3: Modern Wisdom, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube. Just dropped an episode
• 2:53:57
  with Jocko Willink, Matt McCusker, and Jeff Dye. So you
• 2:54:00
  can go and check that one out. Oh, nice. Or
• 2:54:01
  you can go back and watch the Hunter Biden episode.
• 2:54:03
  Speaker 2: That's a good combo. Yeah.
• 2:54:04
  Speaker 3: I'm doing this. It's Mostly Wise, which is the new series.
• 2:54:07
  It's me and McCusker with a serious seat. Hunter Biden
• 2:54:10
  was a serious seat for one. We had Huberman for another.
• 2:54:12
  We've got Neil deGrasse Tyson coming up in for Brian Johnson.
• 2:54:15
  And I'm throwing another comedian in as well. So it's
• 2:54:16
  kind of fun.
• 2:54:17
  Speaker 2: Beautiful. Beautiful.
• 2:54:18
  Speaker 3: Appreciate you, man. Until next time.
• 2:54:19
  Speaker 2: All right. Bye, everybody.
• 2:54:20
  Speaker 4: Bye.
• 2:54:20
  Speaker 2: Bye.