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BOMBSHELL: D4VD HOME INCINERATOR PURCHASED @ TIME OF CELESTE DEATH? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:07
Speaker 2: D four VD aka David Alan Burke whines he has
0:13
Speaker 2: money woes.
0:16
Speaker 3: Boo hoo, this is.
0:18
Speaker 2: A grand jury homicide indictment. Looms timing, timing, timing. A
0:26
Speaker 2: home incinerator found still in.
0:31
Speaker 3: The box at D four vd's home.
0:35
Speaker 2: Was it purchased at the time of Celeste's death? I'm
0:40
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank
0:43
Speaker 2: you for being with us. David is finally being considered
0:47
Speaker 2: as a suspect in the death teen girls. Celeste found
0:51
Speaker 2: decomposing in his vehicle.
0:54
Speaker 3: Was she dimembered? Was she frozen?
0:56
Speaker 4: Was she decapitated?
0:57
Speaker 2: What was going on in that household up to this comicide?
1:02
Speaker 2: In the last hours, we learned that LAPD is focusing
1:06
Speaker 2: in on the time a home incinerator was purchased, straight
1:14
Speaker 2: out to Professor Forensicks Jacksonville State University, author of Blood
1:18
Speaker 2: Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a hit
1:21
Speaker 2: podcast Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan. Jo Scott, thank you
1:25
Speaker 2: for being with us tonight.
1:27
Speaker 3: A home andcinerator? I mean, who has a home and cinerator?
1:33
Speaker 3: Have you seen those things? They're huge? They're huge. Why
1:37
Speaker 3: do you need a home incinerator.
1:40
Speaker 5: Yeah. The fact that there is a burn cage that's
1:42
Speaker 5: even being alluded to here, Nancy, is quite quite fascinating.
1:46
Speaker 5: And here's why. A burn cage can burn up to
1:49
Speaker 5: sixteen hundred degrees fahrenheit, Nancy. That's in the same neighborhood
1:53
Speaker 5: as an actual prematory, all right. With a crematory which
1:58
Speaker 5: works on natural asked, it has to be sustained for
2:02
Speaker 5: about two to three hours. That can render down an
2:04
Speaker 5: entire human remain, all right, If that's the goal here
2:08
Speaker 5: with this thing, there are actually cases out there where
2:11
Speaker 5: burn pages have in fact been used to render down
2:14
Speaker 5: human remains. I'm not saying that that's what's involved here,
2:17
Speaker 5: but the fact that there is one input close proximity
2:20
Speaker 5: to where is certainly from an investigative standpoint very compel.
2:25
Speaker 2: Joining us now, the man who actually first sees the
2:30
Speaker 2: home incinerator and the mansion of David Burke D four
2:36
Speaker 2: VD joining me right now is a now renowned private investigator,
2:42
Speaker 2: Steve Fisher. Steve, I know that you were hired by
2:47
Speaker 2: the owner of the D four VD mansion to find
2:51
Speaker 2: out what the hay was going on inside the mansion
2:54
Speaker 2: after Celeste's body is found. Where did you see a
2:59
Speaker 2: h home incinerator?
3:02
Speaker 6: The home in cinerator was actually inside the house. It
3:05
Speaker 6: wasn't even in the garage, and it was still packaged.
3:07
Speaker 6: But it's a fifty five pound you know device and
3:11
Speaker 6: which serves over at that house and so immediately raised,
3:15
Speaker 6: you know, huge alarm bells with us, and you know,
3:20
Speaker 6: especially considering found in the tesla, and you got to
3:23
Speaker 6: wonder what the plans were ultimately to maybe get rid
3:26
Speaker 6: of permanently.
3:27
Speaker 3: I got a question for you, Stave Fisher.
3:29
Speaker 2: You state that the home incinerator was still packaged.
3:33
Speaker 3: Did you take photos of it?
3:35
Speaker 7: Yes? Absolutely?
3:37
Speaker 2: Do you know what kind of incinerator it is? The
3:40
Speaker 2: name brand?
3:41
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's made by a company called doctor Burn, and you
3:45
Speaker 6: know their whole advertisement is that it burns at sixteen
3:48
Speaker 6: hundred degrees and you know human cremations are done at
3:51
Speaker 6: fourteen hundred degrees. So this is meant to you know,
3:56
Speaker 6: reduce things including animal carcasses and whatnot, and.
4:00
Speaker 7: This is something you would typically find out a farm.
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Speaker 3: Well, I've got a question for you.
4:04
Speaker 2: Why are you saying it's used for animal carcasses. I'm
4:11
Speaker 2: not saying that it's not, but did you see anything
4:14
Speaker 2: on the package to.
4:17
Speaker 3: Inform you of that.
4:19
Speaker 6: So as soon as we found it on the outside,
4:22
Speaker 6: he clearly says doctor Burne. And we went right to
4:25
Speaker 6: their website and they're advertising and other people that you
4:29
Speaker 6: know using it on YouTube.
4:33
Speaker 7: It shows that that that's what it's for. Now.
4:34
Speaker 6: It's not just right now, carcases, concenterate literally anything. But
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Speaker 6: this is something that's not even legal in the Hollywood
4:41
Speaker 6: Hills because the fire ordinances and whatnot. And then you know,
4:44
Speaker 6: we also found it, you know, with the with the chainsaw,
4:48
Speaker 6: and so you know, there's just a lot of questions
4:52
Speaker 6: and it just it's a horrible look, you know.
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Speaker 3: So let me understand Stea. Fisher, hired by the.
5:01
Speaker 2: Owner of Burke's mansion where he was renting it. You
5:05
Speaker 2: find a home and centerator. What I find very critical
5:11
Speaker 2: two things. If you go to the as you're calling it,
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Speaker 2: Doctor burn it's dr.
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Speaker 3: Original burn Cage.
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Speaker 2: There are YouTube videos about burning animal carcasses. So if
5:25
Speaker 2: I looked up home and senerator to burn carcas.
5:30
Speaker 3: That would pop up curious. So right there, and I'll
5:35
Speaker 3: circle back.
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Speaker 2: To you, Brian Fitzgibbons, there needs to be a full
5:38
Speaker 2: on digital search as to whether that query was ever
5:44
Speaker 2: typed into anybody's phone, laptop, iPad.
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Speaker 3: You name it. But okay, so I know that pops up.
5:52
Speaker 2: But what I find very critical, Steve, is the date
5:57
Speaker 2: of the purchase.
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Speaker 3: For instance, let me just throw this at you.
6:00
Speaker 2: You remember Brian Coburger, of course, who goes on Amazon
6:04
Speaker 2: and buys a dagger, a k bar knife that was
6:10
Speaker 2: used to murder for innocent University Idaho students, and his
6:14
Speaker 2: Amazon search was uncovered and the purchase and where he
6:18
Speaker 2: looked to buy a replacement after the murders. We know,
6:23
Speaker 2: for instance, Coltmam Laurie Valo goes onto Amazon and buys
6:28
Speaker 2: a wedding dress, a groom's outfit, and a ring before
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Speaker 2: her new husband's wife is killed. You know, Amazon is
6:38
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing. So I'm curious, Steve Fisher, when the
6:44
Speaker 2: burn cage was purchased. We've heard about the burning cage.
6:48
Speaker 2: What we haven't heard about is what does it prove?
6:52
Speaker 2: Is it probative? It was still in the package, It
6:55
Speaker 2: wasn't used to destroy her body. But if I can
6:58
Speaker 2: draw nexus between the time of her day and the
7:00
Speaker 2: time that burn cage was purchased.
7:03
Speaker 3: I got something. What about it, Fisher?
7:06
Speaker 6: Yeah, So we don't have the exact date, but it
7:09
Speaker 6: just so happened that on January nineteenth, the owner had
7:13
Speaker 6: an inspection done of the house was very thorough with
7:16
Speaker 6: photographs at that time. We know that the burn age
7:20
Speaker 6: was not at the house in January nineteenth, and so
7:23
Speaker 6: sometime between the nineteenth and you know when the search
7:29
Speaker 6: won't happened in September is when this arrived. And you know,
7:34
Speaker 6: it's also around the time that the new tesla arrived
7:36
Speaker 6: on February first. So there seemed to be a lot
7:39
Speaker 6: happening at the end of January, beginning of February, but
7:43
Speaker 6: as of January nineteenth it was not there, but after,
7:46
Speaker 6: you know, as of September it was there. So it
7:50
Speaker 6: appears it was ordered between those dates.
7:52
Speaker 2: Okay, joining me as I said an All Star panel, Scott,
7:56
Speaker 2: You've got a question for Fisher.
7:58
Speaker 3: Scott.
8:00
Speaker 2: I got to warn you about one thing, Joe Scott.
8:02
Speaker 2: Isn't it true, Steve Fisher that you were called in
8:08
Speaker 2: front of the grand jury?
8:10
Speaker 3: Can you confirm that.
8:13
Speaker 7: I can't say anything about or in jury?
8:18
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, if you had not been called, you would
8:20
Speaker 2: have said no, So I'm going to take that as
8:22
Speaker 2: a yes. You know, I've got a funny feeling that
8:27
Speaker 2: the prosecutor is going to be extremely irritated with you
8:31
Speaker 2: because you found evidence that the LAPD had not found yet.
8:36
Speaker 3: And I'm referring.
8:37
Speaker 2: Specifically to the tesla with the dead body in the
8:41
Speaker 2: trunk of a little girl, Celeste Rivus. You found that,
8:46
Speaker 2: and you scoured the neighborhood and got the ring doorbell
8:49
Speaker 2: cam in the surveillance camp and could show that the
8:52
Speaker 2: car was being moved around the neighborhood so nobody would
8:55
Speaker 2: complain it's parked out in front of their house. You
8:57
Speaker 2: even caught one of the drivers face. You still haven't
9:01
Speaker 2: revealed to me who that is. And LAPD or the
9:05
Speaker 2: DA's office didn't find any of that.
9:07
Speaker 3: So I guess he's a little ill with you right now.
9:09
Speaker 2: That said, I have a source telling me you were
9:14
Speaker 2: called in front of the grand jury. Whether you confirm
9:16
Speaker 2: it or deny it, okay, Joe Scott, The point being
9:20
Speaker 2: he may not be able to answer some of our questions, but.
9:23
Speaker 3: Have at it.
9:24
Speaker 5: No, I'll try to make it as general as possible. Hey, Steve,
9:27
Speaker 5: Joseph Scott Morgan, I got a question for you. I've
9:30
Speaker 5: been through this area before only as a tourist. I
9:33
Speaker 5: could never afford, you know, to you know, even know
9:36
Speaker 5: anyone there high dollar area. If you rent a place
9:41
Speaker 5: up there, it would seem odd that it would be
9:44
Speaker 5: a come incumbent upon that person to do their own
9:46
Speaker 5: landscaping work. And I'm fascinated about this chainsaw and this
9:51
Speaker 5: idea that I'm sure the shrubs are lovely, are you
9:56
Speaker 5: you know? And you've got this from what I'm understanding,
9:59
Speaker 5: unopen chain saw there. What would be the purpose of
10:02
Speaker 5: someone happiness thing? And when did it show up?
10:06
Speaker 6: Well, so you nailed it exactly because I've heard some
10:09
Speaker 6: people say that, well, you know, people have chainsaws to
10:13
Speaker 6: do yardwork and trim trees. This was a rental that
10:17
Speaker 6: the owner was completely in charge of all the maintenance
10:21
Speaker 6: including the pool, you know, the tree trimming, everything that
10:26
Speaker 6: this was plug and play. They they didn't have to
10:29
Speaker 6: do any of their own yard works. So there's no
10:33
Speaker 6: reason for it to be there. And it showed up
10:35
Speaker 6: again after January nineteenth. It was not there because there
10:39
Speaker 6: was photo documentation of that walkthrough and inspection and now
10:43
Speaker 6: one inspection, so it showed up after, you know, between
10:47
Speaker 6: you know, the time in the search January nineteenth and
10:49
Speaker 6: the time the search warrant. But you're absolutely right, there's
10:52
Speaker 6: they're they're not responsible for any of that maintenance. And
10:57
Speaker 6: I can't think of any reason that they would need
10:59
Speaker 6: to chainsaw.
11:00
Speaker 2: Joining us now, Melissa McCarty, investigative journalist and author of
11:04
Speaker 2: the Making of a Crime Reporter, Melissa, thank you for
11:07
Speaker 2: being with us.
11:08
Speaker 3: You have a question for Fisher, go ahead, I do
11:10
Speaker 3: hasty have.
11:11
Speaker 4: Two questions for you. One is who were the two
11:14
Speaker 4: items addressed to? Was it the owner of the house
11:16
Speaker 4: or somebody else? And also, it's my understanding the LAPDD
11:21
Speaker 4: they did not take those items as evidence, But do
11:23
Speaker 4: you know if there was any kind of brushing of
11:26
Speaker 4: fingerprints to see if David or somebody else in his
11:29
Speaker 4: inner circle at one point laid their hands on those
11:32
Speaker 4: boxes or collected those boxes touched them to link the
11:36
Speaker 4: two Very good question.
11:39
Speaker 7: So they did not take the items.
11:43
Speaker 6: We contacted them and asked them specifically about it, and
11:46
Speaker 6: they told us that they photographed them, but they did not.
11:51
Speaker 7: Fingerprint them.
11:52
Speaker 6: And you know, there was no dustrating or on them,
11:57
Speaker 6: and they didn't appear to illumine all them either because
12:00
Speaker 6: they hadn't been removed from the packaging, so as in
12:03
Speaker 6: as far as they were addressed to, they were addressed
12:07
Speaker 6: in a fake name, somebody.
12:09
Speaker 7: That did not live at the residence.
12:11
Speaker 6: But they accepted the packages at the residence, and we believe,
12:15
Speaker 6: just from the investigation, we'd be able to do that.
12:18
Speaker 6: They used prepaid gift cards to purchase the Uh.
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Speaker 2: Whoa wha wait wait wait wait, you're giving me all
12:25
Speaker 2: new information.
12:27
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, are you telling me? Have you told
12:31
Speaker 3: anybody else this? Are you telling me?
12:34
Speaker 2: The home incinerator was addressed to a fake name, but
12:38
Speaker 2: somebody in that house accepted the package?
12:42
Speaker 7: Yes?
12:44
Speaker 3: Correct? How do you know that? Did you see the name?
12:48
Speaker 7: Yes?
12:51
Speaker 3: What was the name? How do you know it was fake?
12:55
Speaker 6: Well, when I say fake name, it is it's somebody
12:56
Speaker 6: that does not live at the residence.
12:58
Speaker 7: It's the name of a female that does not live
13:00
Speaker 7: at the residence.
13:01
Speaker 6: Yeah, they accepted, they signed for the package through DHL.
13:06
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm learning so much right now.
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Speaker 2: Okay, so this guy did not go run down to
13:12
Speaker 2: home depot and.
13:13
Speaker 3: Buy a home incinerator.
13:15
Speaker 2: That means somebody went online Steve Fisher and ordered it
13:21
Speaker 2: would you agree.
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Speaker 6: Absolutely, And I'm sure those records are very subpoenable.
13:28
Speaker 3: Okay, you know.
13:29
Speaker 2: Danny Ruben joining me right now, veterman criminal defense attorney,
13:32
Speaker 2: founder of the Ruben Law Firm. Danny, thank you for
13:35
Speaker 2: being with us tonight.
13:36
Speaker 3: I was ill.
13:38
Speaker 2: I was getting a chest pain that was radiating up
13:41
Speaker 2: into my teeth when I was hearing Steve Fisher talking
13:44
Speaker 2: about Nope, they did not seize the home incinerator, they
13:49
Speaker 2: did not seize the chainsaw, they did not fingerprint them,
13:52
Speaker 2: they did not illumin all them. I mean, that's bad,
13:55
Speaker 2: bad police work right there, that they just took pictures
13:59
Speaker 2: of them, because you know, juries they want to look
14:01
Speaker 2: at it, they want to touch it, hold it, feel it,
14:05
Speaker 2: smell it, the whole shebang. But then I was heartened
14:11
Speaker 2: when I heard him say it was sent to a
14:13
Speaker 2: fake name, to somebody that doesn't live there, to this address,
14:17
Speaker 2: and it was accepted by someone in that home, which
14:20
Speaker 2: tells me there is a digital trail. Danny Rubert, it
14:25
Speaker 2: proves a lot.
14:29
Speaker 8: I mean, what it can prove is the account that
14:32
Speaker 8: ordered it. It doesn't necessarily prove who ordered it. I
14:36
Speaker 8: mean when I look at a case like this, I
14:38
Speaker 8: look at who's got the most to lose here. David
14:43
Speaker 8: had to know that if he is the one that
14:46
Speaker 8: would be culpable for this, he'd be the first one
14:49
Speaker 8: to be looked at. My question is who's the second
14:52
Speaker 8: or who's the third? That's the person I'd want to investigate.
14:55
Speaker 3: As his defense attorney, you would want to investigate them
14:58
Speaker 3: to what.
14:58
Speaker 2: Just let's pretend from moment that you're David Anthony Burke's lawyer.
15:04
Speaker 3: You want to look at everybody around him.
15:06
Speaker 2: So let's just be real here, so you can pull
15:08
Speaker 2: a sood some of the dude did at defense. So
15:12
Speaker 2: you're looking around at everybody else? Is that what you're saying?
15:15
Speaker 3: Just be straight?
15:16
Speaker 8: Well, my question is what if someone else actually did
15:19
Speaker 8: do it? I mean, his two managers are around him
15:21
Speaker 8: all the time. They're the ones that are economically invested.
15:24
Speaker 8: Robert Morgan Roth was actually, as far as I've read,
15:28
Speaker 8: called to testify at the grand jury and he was
15:32
Speaker 8: recorded saying, why didn't I call the police? Yes, the manager?
15:37
Speaker 2: Okay, so you know they tried and it worked. In
15:42
Speaker 2: the top mom Casey Anthony murder case, when she got
15:45
Speaker 2: her mother sending Anthony to go on the stand under
15:51
Speaker 2: oath and fall on her sword and take the blame
15:55
Speaker 2: for the highly damning searches for how to make chloroform.
15:58
Speaker 2: She said that she vote chlorophyll, not chloroform, and that
16:04
Speaker 2: the computer spell checked her because she wanted to get
16:08
Speaker 2: rid of bamboo in the backyard and made it no
16:10
Speaker 2: sense at all. That said, it worked in that case,
16:14
Speaker 2: so I can't poo poo it that quickly. Brian Fitzgibbons
16:17
Speaker 2: is joining US now Director Operations usp A Nationwide Security Brian,
16:26
Speaker 2: you also, in your search for people all around the world,
16:30
Speaker 2: are an expert at digital forensics.
16:35
Speaker 3: Brian.
16:36
Speaker 2: What should they be doing right now to determine who
16:40
Speaker 2: ordered the burncage?
16:44
Speaker 9: Yeah?
16:44
Speaker 10: I want to applaud Steve Fisher Nancy in the work
16:48
Speaker 10: that he's gone and identifying that these the purchase was
16:53
Speaker 10: made with these gift cards, that it was delivered to
16:57
Speaker 10: a fictitious name or a name that wasn't at the residence.
17:01
Speaker 10: You know, this is going to provide investigators with a
17:04
Speaker 10: good foothold to begin that forensic search and subpoena these
17:09
Speaker 10: purchase records of what date this burn cage was purchased on,
17:16
Speaker 10: what IP addressed was the system access. They're going to
17:19
Speaker 10: be able to get quite a bit of information off
17:21
Speaker 10: of that purchase, and I think that you will see
17:25
Speaker 10: that provided that this most word to trial.
17:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what.
17:29
Speaker 2: You brought up another issue, Brian Fitzgibbons, Thank you. I
17:32
Speaker 2: was so taken by the fact that this was obviously
17:35
Speaker 2: ordered online. I wonder they're going to be able to
17:38
Speaker 2: find where the purchaser watched that YouTube video Fisher just
17:43
Speaker 2: told us about how the home fire cage can't burn
17:47
Speaker 2: dead carcasses. Question to you, Steve Fisher, owner, founder of
17:53
Speaker 2: Steve Fisher SF Investigations, state, how do you know that
17:57
Speaker 2: it was bought with gift cards?
18:00
Speaker 7: So I want to be clear.
18:02
Speaker 6: From what we've uncovered, it looks to us like it
18:05
Speaker 6: was purchased with gift cards from you know, the communications
18:10
Speaker 6: that we've had. I can't say that one percent for certain,
18:12
Speaker 6: but it appears that that's how it was done. But
18:16
Speaker 6: you know, we haven't.
18:17
Speaker 2: Kind of gift cards place, say Amazon, what kind of
18:20
Speaker 2: gift cards American Express home depot.
18:24
Speaker 6: Yeah, one of those you go to Target and buy
18:26
Speaker 6: like a prepaid visa or amex or whatever, you know,
18:29
Speaker 6: like that just something it doesn't have your name attached
18:31
Speaker 6: to it, although you have to I guess technically register it,
18:34
Speaker 6: but you can.
18:35
Speaker 7: Again, you can use that in anybody's name.
18:37
Speaker 6: But I'll bet you that there is an email address
18:40
Speaker 6: that they formed this person's name, this fake name so,
18:45
Speaker 6: and then that'll probably reside on one of those computers,
18:48
Speaker 6: and you know, I think they'll be able to tie
18:51
Speaker 6: it all back to them. I don't think these are
18:53
Speaker 6: geniuses by any means.
18:55
Speaker 2: You said that you can't say gift cards will us,
18:59
Speaker 2: but that you have personally done. You and your team
19:01
Speaker 2: have done investigations that lead you to believe that gift
19:05
Speaker 2: cards were used. You're telling me the gift cards were
19:08
Speaker 2: not to a specific store such as Home Depot or Lows.
19:11
Speaker 2: You're telling me they were of the variety that you
19:14
Speaker 2: can go to Target and get like American Express or
19:17
Speaker 2: Visa gift cards.
19:19
Speaker 3: Is that correct?
19:21
Speaker 7: Yes? Right, yes, which.
19:24
Speaker 2: Leads me to believe that they were bought at Target.
19:26
Speaker 2: Where they bought at Target?
19:28
Speaker 6: Oh, I honestly have no idea about that. I'm just
19:30
Speaker 6: saying that, you know, like they're a seller of those.
19:33
Speaker 6: I don't know where they bought the the gift cards at,
19:35
Speaker 6: but they were delivered you know, through a you know
19:38
Speaker 6: delivers like you order online, and it appears that they
19:42
Speaker 6: use DHL to ship this you know item.
19:44
Speaker 3: To ship the gift cards, or to ship the burn cage, the.
19:48
Speaker 7: Burn cage, the burn cage. So I think it's gonna
19:51
Speaker 7: be fairly easy.
19:57
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
20:03
Speaker 2: Karen Stark joining me, forensic psychologists, renowned TV radio trauma
20:07
Speaker 2: expert consultant at Karenstark dot com. Oh what a tangled
20:12
Speaker 2: web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
20:17
Speaker 3: Can't you just see?
20:18
Speaker 2: You know, there's going to be video, right, they have
20:21
Speaker 2: cameras everywhere, specifically on the registers. Can't you just see
20:27
Speaker 2: this merry troop flinking into a store and getting all
20:32
Speaker 2: these gift cards, which is they think so sneaky because
20:36
Speaker 2: it's not in their name. I wonder if they've paid
20:39
Speaker 2: in cash or did they charge it?
20:41
Speaker 3: Oh, I hope they charged it.
20:43
Speaker 2: At trying so hard to cover up, yet leaving a
20:50
Speaker 2: trail a mile wide for somebody like Steve Fisher to find.
20:57
Speaker 11: It's very clear that these people were disorganized, Nancy. I mean,
21:02
Speaker 11: nobody really understood that. How could you leave even the
21:05
Speaker 11: body in a car and keep moving the car around
21:09
Speaker 11: and not think that somebody would notice it, especially where
21:12
Speaker 11: they were. And if you consider the fact that she
21:16
Speaker 11: was dismembered, and then you also look at the fact
21:20
Speaker 11: that someone ordered a chainsaw, somebody ordered this burn incinerator,
21:26
Speaker 11: it's very telling that there was intent, or at least
21:30
Speaker 11: it seems that way that they turned this body. It
21:35
Speaker 11: was dehumanized and they were looking for any way. According
21:38
Speaker 11: to me, it seems who get rid of the body
21:43
Speaker 11: without even thinking about this as a person.
21:46
Speaker 2: Back to Steve Fisher, following up on what Karen Stark,
21:49
Speaker 2: psychologist said, Steve Fisher, isn't it true that d FORVD
21:55
Speaker 2: aka David David.
21:57
Speaker 3: Allenberg was going on tour?
22:01
Speaker 2: So if Celeste was already dead, they wait and they
22:05
Speaker 2: wait and they wait, and the home senerator doesn't show.
22:07
Speaker 2: What they're like, Hell, you know, put it in the trunk.
22:11
Speaker 2: That's going to be the argument. Of course, they're all
22:14
Speaker 2: presumed innocent until proven guilty. So finally, you know what,
22:19
Speaker 2: back up and punt and she ends up in the trunk.
22:23
Speaker 3: Can't you just see that playing out? Fisher? Then the
22:27
Speaker 3: incinerator comes a day late. The dollar short. She'd use
22:30
Speaker 3: fat X, but no, they use DHL. What about it? Fisher?
22:34
Speaker 6: Yeah, personally, I think the incinerator was already there. I
22:37
Speaker 6: think this became a case of them chickening out. You know,
22:43
Speaker 6: they or whoever was supposed to do it didn't do it,
22:46
Speaker 6: and then they just ran out of time. I mean
22:48
Speaker 6: this and this is what baffles me about case. We're
22:51
Speaker 6: talking about people that are perfectly idiots. And now, how
22:57
Speaker 6: how is it taking to spenty months to be able
23:00
Speaker 6: to put this case together to become chargeable because these
23:03
Speaker 6: are not people that pulled off a perfect crime. And
23:06
Speaker 6: this is the part that really baffles me is it's
23:09
Speaker 6: so sloppy, yet there's apparently not enough to charge them yet.
23:14
Speaker 7: You know, I don't understand PI.
23:17
Speaker 12: Steve Fisher claims he found a burn cage, incinerator and
23:20
Speaker 12: a chainsaw inside the home rented for Burke by his manager.
23:24
Speaker 12: Employed by the property owner to determine what took place
23:27
Speaker 12: in his house. Fisher uncovered the items still in their
23:30
Speaker 12: original packaging and were unused. Incinerator is illegal in Los Angeles,
23:35
Speaker 12: delivered to the residents under a fake name, and claims
23:37
Speaker 12: to reach a temperature of one thousand and six hundred degrees.
23:41
Speaker 4: We don't even know really when Celeste was last seen alive.
23:45
Speaker 2: I don't know how long she was dead for police
23:48
Speaker 2: sources believe Celeste was killed back in the spring.
23:52
Speaker 3: Her body found in his Tesla truck.
23:55
Speaker 2: She's dead, dismembered, turning into nothing but gow.
24:00
Speaker 3: At first we were told, oh, the grand.
24:02
Speaker 2: Jury is just conducting an investigation. Not true anymore.
24:07
Speaker 1: Listen.
24:08
Speaker 12: A recent report said the grand jury hearing testimony about
24:11
Speaker 12: the death of Celeste Reeves was an investigative grand jury
24:14
Speaker 12: that helps gather evidence but does not indict. Now new
24:18
Speaker 12: information indicates Burke will face murder charges for the death
24:22
Speaker 12: of Celeste, and the grand jury hearing the case right
24:25
Speaker 12: now is going to be asked to hand down an indictment.
24:28
Speaker 12: An investigative grand jury can be useful to subpoena and
24:32
Speaker 12: then force uncooperative witnesses to testify, and sources now say
24:36
Speaker 12: the grand jury hearing witnesses is actually one that will
24:39
Speaker 12: vote on indictments. And these sources indicate prosecutor Beth Silverman,
24:44
Speaker 12: among others, believes Burke was involved in the death of Celeste.
24:48
Speaker 3: So let me understand.
24:50
Speaker 2: To Dave mack joining US crime stories, investigative reporter, Dave,
24:55
Speaker 2: we were first told this grand jury was just an
24:57
Speaker 2: investigative grand jury that was gathering evidence on celeste death.
25:03
Speaker 2: Now we're learning and indictment looms and it is a
25:06
Speaker 2: homicide indictment. I never had any doubt that this grand
25:10
Speaker 2: jury was going to seek charges.
25:14
Speaker 1: Do I have that right, Dave?
25:16
Speaker 2: Matt We're expecting a grand jury indictment to come down.
25:19
Speaker 9: That's what everything is pointing towards Nancy right now, expecting
25:23
Speaker 9: an indictment to be handed down for homicide.
25:26
Speaker 2: Danny Rubin, you have dealt with many, many grand jury indictments.
25:30
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're a former prosecutor, but were
25:33
Speaker 2: you a former prosecutor at any point?
25:35
Speaker 8: Danny, no defense attorney from the very beginning, but I've
25:39
Speaker 8: dealt with the aftermaths.
25:39
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm sorry to hear that.
25:42
Speaker 2: Long story short, if the grand jury is meeting to indict,
25:47
Speaker 2: not just investigate, that means they have to pick a charge, Ruben,
25:53
Speaker 2: They've got to go with it. If it's homicide, murder one,
25:57
Speaker 2: murder two volunteer or involuntary, and then of course there's
26:02
Speaker 2: fell any murder.
26:04
Speaker 3: They've got to pick between those charges.
26:07
Speaker 2: They could indict in the alternative, which means a murder one,
26:10
Speaker 2: with a murder two and a voluntary or even involuntary
26:14
Speaker 2: all in the same indictment.
26:15
Speaker 3: So a jury can pick.
26:17
Speaker 2: So if they're going to go with murder one, go
26:20
Speaker 2: with me, Ruben, go with me. That means they either
26:23
Speaker 2: either got the cod from the body which was decomposed,
26:28
Speaker 2: and they know there was either a gunshot wound, a
26:32
Speaker 2: broken hyoid bone to suggest asphyxiation, something in toxicology.
26:38
Speaker 3: A knife nick to one of the bones. They've either got.
26:42
Speaker 2: It from the body itself, or they've got a witness
26:45
Speaker 2: to say she was murdered and this is what happened.
26:49
Speaker 2: They've got to indict on those few choices. Murder one,
26:52
Speaker 2: murder two, voluntary, involuntary. That's all the choices there are
26:55
Speaker 2: for homicide. To do murder one or murder two, they
26:59
Speaker 2: had to find something from the body or a witness.
27:02
Speaker 3: What do you think.
27:05
Speaker 8: I think if they had something from the body, they
27:07
Speaker 8: would have been bringing charges a lot sooner. It seems
27:12
Speaker 8: like if they're they're looking into indicting for homicide, whichever
27:16
Speaker 8: one they picked, they probably got some information from a
27:19
Speaker 8: witness that they questioned over the past month or two.
27:23
Speaker 8: I know they're going to be calling back witnesses in February.
27:26
Speaker 8: That's what I've read. So it seems like they're still
27:29
Speaker 8: trying to find more evidence. But if they're looking to
27:32
Speaker 8: switch that investigation now, it's probably because of something someone said,
27:35
Speaker 8: possibly in conjunction with something they found on the body.
27:38
Speaker 2: Dave Max, speaking of witnesses before the grand jury, isn't
27:43
Speaker 2: it true that witnesses at least one has refused to come.
27:49
Speaker 3: To the grand jury? Isn't that true?
27:52
Speaker 9: Absolutely true, Nancy, And they've gone so far as to
27:55
Speaker 9: threaten to arrest her if you won't come in.
27:59
Speaker 2: Danny Rube, I'm just wondering. Let's just put together the
28:02
Speaker 2: pieces here. Reuben, a witness, stated that she refused to
28:06
Speaker 2: come to the grand jury. An order went out to
28:10
Speaker 2: either bring her in, have her arrested, give her immunity
28:17
Speaker 2: if she was facing charges herself.
28:20
Speaker 3: Therefore, she would.
28:21
Speaker 2: Have no reason to take the Fifth Amendment from the
28:23
Speaker 2: grand jury or charge her with contempt. If you're a target,
28:28
Speaker 2: you can be given immunity and forced to testify because
28:31
Speaker 2: you have no Fifth Amendment right to remain silent if
28:33
Speaker 2: you're not going to be charged, or if you're just
28:37
Speaker 2: a witness, you can be held in contempt and jailed
28:41
Speaker 2: until you've testified. Okay, So that word goes out and
28:45
Speaker 2: the next thing you know, an indictment is being handed down.
28:48
Speaker 2: Sounds to me like they got the witness. The witness testified,
28:53
Speaker 2: and now we're looking at a homicide indictment.
28:57
Speaker 5: That could be it.
28:58
Speaker 8: I mean, like I said before, it could be something
29:00
Speaker 8: conjunction with what they found in the body. It could
29:03
Speaker 8: be some combination of testimonies. But this is why we
29:08
Speaker 8: have subpoena powers, because both the prosecution and defense, the
29:12
Speaker 8: prosecution and grand jury defense at trial and preliminary hearing,
29:16
Speaker 8: we need that to bring in witnesses who can testify,
29:20
Speaker 8: and many times we can't get what we need without
29:23
Speaker 8: those witnesses. So it's a very big stick that we
29:26
Speaker 8: have to bring witnesses in that we need.
29:29
Speaker 3: Danny Rubin, you have a question for Steve Fisher.
29:32
Speaker 8: Yeah, Steve, when you investigated the home where David was
29:39
Speaker 8: purportedly living, was there anything else of note that you found,
29:43
Speaker 8: anything still in its wrapper, anything that was looked like
29:46
Speaker 8: it had not been taken out of its packaging.
29:50
Speaker 7: No, besides those two items.
29:51
Speaker 6: You know, there were some There was a couple full
29:55
Speaker 6: respirators almost like gas masks at the house.
29:58
Speaker 7: But they were out of the package.
30:01
Speaker 6: Don't know exactly what they were for, but those were
30:04
Speaker 6: the two, you know, most most damning things.
30:07
Speaker 7: For sure.
30:08
Speaker 6: There was a lot of stuff left behind that was
30:11
Speaker 6: a value, such as the memory card with all the photos,
30:14
Speaker 6: but nothing that really was like what would that be
30:17
Speaker 6: doing here?
30:19
Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jackson State University,
30:23
Speaker 2: Star of Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.
30:26
Speaker 3: Joe Scott, we're learning a lot tonight. Okay.
30:31
Speaker 2: We knew that there was a chainsaw, we knew that
30:33
Speaker 2: there was a home incinerator.
30:35
Speaker 3: We didn't know.
30:37
Speaker 2: That it had been purchased with gift cards anonymously and
30:42
Speaker 2: that had been sent under a fake name. Now we
30:46
Speaker 2: know that purchase can be traced and we can find out,
30:49
Speaker 2: hopefully if there's a video, who bought the gift cards.
30:52
Speaker 3: And where and when?
30:54
Speaker 2: What does this mean to you forensically, what can we
30:58
Speaker 2: prove with this new evidence?
31:01
Speaker 5: Well, I think certainly with the gift cards in particular,
31:05
Speaker 5: because that is something that can be digitally traced. And
31:09
Speaker 5: just let me remind everybody these gift cards can be
31:12
Speaker 5: picked up anywhere. It doesn't have to be at a
31:14
Speaker 5: big store. You can walk into a gas station and
31:17
Speaker 5: buy these things. So, but the upside with.
31:22
Speaker 2: Scott the location where the gift card. They're like, they
31:26
Speaker 2: got numbers on them, like guns. For Pete's sake, you
31:29
Speaker 2: can find the car.
31:31
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it gets very and the digital evidence here
31:33
Speaker 5: gets very granular, and so it's going to be very specific.
31:37
Speaker 5: You can put a really tight pin in this thing. Also,
31:40
Speaker 5: you know the initial purchase, the utility of these things,
31:43
Speaker 5: and then you track along with the purchases that are made.
31:48
Speaker 5: Now I'm going to use a term here, and I'm
31:50
Speaker 5: sure you'll slap me down for saying this. I got
31:52
Speaker 5: to tell you, Nancy, from a legal standpoint, the things
31:55
Speaker 5: I've heard attorneys say in the past with these boxes
31:59
Speaker 5: of open to items. When you think about the chainsaw
32:02
Speaker 5: and this burn box and these sorts of things, this
32:06
Speaker 5: almost smacks of like an incohatee of fence. I don't know.
32:10
Speaker 5: I think i'd like to know your opinion of that.
32:12
Speaker 5: But there's planning going on, perhaps if they can prove that,
32:17
Speaker 5: and maybe there is intent, but they just couldn't complete
32:20
Speaker 5: the act here, going back to what Steve had said earlier,
32:25
Speaker 5: this seems like the I don't know, old reference here,
32:28
Speaker 5: the Apple Dumpling Gang. They just can't get anything right.
32:31
Speaker 5: They're just kind of falling on their faces. No one
32:33
Speaker 5: can pull the trigger. There's not a leader. It's just
32:36
Speaker 5: like they push this thing off in the ether and
32:38
Speaker 5: maybe she'll just disappear. I don't know, because I got
32:41
Speaker 5: to tell you, out of all the cases I've covered,
32:43
Speaker 5: I've never seen anything. First off, take this long. You've
32:46
Speaker 5: got a lot of elements here of movement with the
32:49
Speaker 5: body going to Karen's point of disrespecting the remains to
32:53
Speaker 5: this point, and then you have all these other elements
32:57
Speaker 5: where no one could finish the job.
33:00
Speaker 2: Okay, you refer to inco hate from the Latin verb
33:04
Speaker 2: inco heir, which means in its inception, in its beginning,
33:08
Speaker 2: just starting. So I see this if any of this
33:13
Speaker 2: is borne out by the facts, and again David Bird
33:17
Speaker 2: is presumed innocent until proven guilty. The beginning of the
33:21
Speaker 2: destruction of the body went because the burn cage and
33:26
Speaker 2: the chainsaw, and we do know she was dismembered. Where
33:30
Speaker 2: you come in, they obviously did.
33:32
Speaker 3: Not use the chainsaw.
33:33
Speaker 2: Hey, Steve Fisher, was the chainsaw also still in the package?
33:38
Speaker 7: It had the protective shield over the blade.
33:41
Speaker 6: It wasn't in the n actual package, but it's but
33:44
Speaker 6: it had the protective shield over it.
33:48
Speaker 2: Okay, so it had never been used, which suggests that
33:51
Speaker 2: it's new. And we keep talking about, hey, do you
33:54
Speaker 2: do your own landscaping? Maybe obviously he didn't do his
33:57
Speaker 2: own landscaping, but if he had a landscape that was
34:00
Speaker 2: going to use that, I mean, that.
34:02
Speaker 3: Could be a defense.
34:04
Speaker 2: But it was never used, which suggests it also was
34:07
Speaker 2: just bought and will probably be traceable. That said, in
34:11
Speaker 2: co hate, I see it as evidence of destruction of
34:17
Speaker 2: the body, tampering with a corpse, which is also a felony,
34:21
Speaker 2: which is a separate offense from the homicide itself. I
34:26
Speaker 2: think we're going to see a very involved and intricate
34:29
Speaker 2: indictment which deals with the actual death of Celeste and
34:35
Speaker 2: disposing of her body. And you're right, Joe Scott, the
34:39
Speaker 2: attempt to get rid of her.
34:41
Speaker 3: Body was in co hate.
34:43
Speaker 2: It had just started and it's leaving a trail. The
34:49
Speaker 2: cover up will likely be in disha proof of the crime.
34:55
Speaker 3: Itself. Wouldn't you agree with that?
34:58
Speaker 2: Maybe they just got tired of waiting to get all
35:00
Speaker 2: of the items, the burncake, the chainsaw, went just put
35:04
Speaker 2: them in the trunk man.
35:06
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, And I think that that's probably the case here.
35:10
Speaker 5: There's also one more issue to this, and this is
35:13
Speaker 5: rather gruesome. It's not that the rest of this hasn't been.
35:17
Speaker 5: It's just that who's going to be who's going to join,
35:20
Speaker 5: who's going to draw the short straw here, who's going
35:23
Speaker 5: to put this cage together, which, by the way, is
35:25
Speaker 5: very easy to assemble. Who's going to put the thing together?
35:30
Speaker 5: And then who's going to finish up the process of
35:34
Speaker 5: rendering down her body to the point where it's manageable
35:37
Speaker 5: to go in here? And also they think, oh my lord,
35:40
Speaker 5: this is going to create a smell that no one
35:43
Speaker 5: is going to be able to escape.
35:44
Speaker 13: A second person has been linked to the death of Celestrevus.
35:47
Speaker 13: Attorney Mark Erragos claims the suspects phone and social media
35:51
Speaker 13: data was triangulated by LAPD homicide detectives to the spot
35:55
Speaker 13: on the same time frame Revus died.
35:58
Speaker 14: They got a chart at LAPD that you would not believe.
36:02
Speaker 14: They've got this thing down to a timeline that's almost
36:06
Speaker 14: by the minutes triangulated to the location.
36:10
Speaker 7: If you can believe that.
36:12
Speaker 14: And it's not just one source. When I say triangulated,
36:16
Speaker 14: it's media, social media, cell phone, tesla, other and I'll qualify.
36:24
Speaker 14: All I'll say is other kind of GPS tracking devices
36:31
Speaker 14: you're seeing.
36:32
Speaker 2: Harvey Levans to Angryman podcast with Mark Gergo's veteran defense attorney.
36:37
Speaker 2: I mean Melissa McCarty joining us investigative journalist. All of
36:42
Speaker 2: the people that lived in that home or were in
36:45
Speaker 2: and out frequently can be identified. Fisher has video of
36:53
Speaker 2: the person moving the tesla around the neighborhood.
36:57
Speaker 3: He knows who that is. He saw the face.
37:01
Speaker 2: He's not saying so, don't you know that what Garages
37:06
Speaker 2: and Levin said is true.
37:08
Speaker 3: They've got it down to a timeline by the minute.
37:11
Speaker 2: You think any one of those D four VD cohorts
37:16
Speaker 2: is going to go anywhere without their phone or their
37:19
Speaker 2: Apple Watch or their NAV system in their car. Oh No,
37:23
Speaker 2: they travel as a pack and they're all traveling together.
37:27
Speaker 4: Melissa, Nancy, I think we're going to see more than
37:31
Speaker 4: one person charged in this case. And that's what's so
37:34
Speaker 4: great about the grand jury phase. To me, this comes
37:37
Speaker 4: across as a case where a lot of people aren't forthcoming.
37:40
Speaker 4: They don't want to talk, so you need subpoenas to
37:43
Speaker 4: force them to get on the stance of Prosecutors can
37:46
Speaker 4: lock in their theories, lock in their timelines, take all
37:50
Speaker 4: of the digital forensic that they've been gathering since September
37:54
Speaker 4: and really pieced together what they believe to be true.
37:57
Speaker 4: So I think more than one person will be charged
37:59
Speaker 4: at the end of the dayjury.
38:01
Speaker 3: What about it? Steve Fisher, why won't you tell me
38:04
Speaker 3: who was driving that car?
38:06
Speaker 2: I said in a previous on a previous evening that
38:09
Speaker 2: I was misled. It was not misled by you. You're correct,
38:14
Speaker 2: the cars moved this day and that date to this location,
38:16
Speaker 2: that ocation we were basing. I was misled by our
38:20
Speaker 2: own analysis that she was killed just she died just
38:25
Speaker 2: before the car started moving. She could have been dead
38:29
Speaker 2: much before that. She was placed in the car before
38:32
Speaker 2: the car was moving. Now back to my query, why
38:37
Speaker 2: aren't you telling.
38:38
Speaker 3: People who was moving the vehicle? I guess you testified
38:41
Speaker 3: to that from the.
38:42
Speaker 6: Grand Ary.
38:48
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
38:53
Speaker 6: I'm not even sure grand jury is, but you know
38:56
Speaker 6: the reason that the reason that I did is because
39:00
Speaker 6: I don't want people if I did say that, I
39:03
Speaker 6: don't want people to think that she was.
39:06
Speaker 7: Just killed like that.
39:06
Speaker 6: I believe that her death can go back as far
39:08
Speaker 6: as January, and you know, this person I'm certain will
39:13
Speaker 6: be held accountable. But I also don't want of something
39:18
Speaker 6: so way to take it into their own hands, because
39:21
Speaker 6: this is moving super slow and it's frustrating, and I
39:24
Speaker 6: just think it's a safer, you.
39:26
Speaker 2: Know, you know way to know why Steve Fisher, because
39:28
Speaker 2: I think Melissa McCarty is right. I think a lot
39:32
Speaker 2: of people are going to be charged, including You're possibly
39:36
Speaker 2: named as unindicted co conspirators in order to get their testimony,
39:41
Speaker 2: give them immunity to get them to testify.
39:44
Speaker 3: This as money woes rear their ugly head.
39:48
Speaker 12: EA Sports, the biggest name in sports video games, quietly
39:53
Speaker 12: removes Burke's song what Are You Waiting For? From Madden
39:56
Speaker 12: NFL twenty six, The legendary football game feeds 's the
40:00
Speaker 12: soundtrack when released in August twenty twenty five, that positions
40:04
Speaker 12: Burt's cut between Bia and Alex Warren on the playlist,
40:07
Speaker 12: but now the song has vanished from the list. No
40:11
Speaker 12: announcement explaining the reason behind the move.
40:14
Speaker 2: Dave matt joining me Crime Stories investigative reporter. Is that
40:17
Speaker 2: why we are hearing about boohoo?
40:19
Speaker 3: Money woes?
40:21
Speaker 9: I think it's just the tip of the iceberg dance.
40:23
Speaker 9: You remember when all of this started. He was on
40:27
Speaker 9: his first worldwide tour. He was only two or three
40:30
Speaker 9: days into it when everything broke and it stopped. This
40:35
Speaker 9: was the end of the career. He had. No money's
40:37
Speaker 9: been coming in since then, or at least it's not
40:39
Speaker 9: nearly what it was. So yeah, money woes. Absolutely.
40:43
Speaker 6: So.
40:44
Speaker 2: Every time somebody played Madden NFL twenty six, it's a
40:48
Speaker 2: legendary football game, they would hear David Burk's song what
40:54
Speaker 2: Are You Waiting For? It played every time somebody played
40:58
Speaker 2: the game. Is that right, Dave mack.
41:00
Speaker 9: Well, they created a playlist of songs Nancy So Yes.
41:03
Speaker 9: It was one of several kind of like on an album.
41:05
Speaker 9: You know, you have several different artists on there.
41:07
Speaker 3: Any yes please, could you just give me a yes?
41:10
Speaker 3: No please?
41:10
Speaker 7: Yes?
41:11
Speaker 2: Okay, so yes, So every time that song is played,
41:15
Speaker 2: D four v D makes Let's just pretend a dollar
41:18
Speaker 2: a penny, that's a lot of money because that is
41:22
Speaker 2: a huge, huge game in sports video games. He's lost
41:26
Speaker 2: all that money, that's a tip of the iceberg. But
41:29
Speaker 2: I think he's got bigger fish to fry than losing
41:32
Speaker 2: money off Madden NFL twenty six. If you know or
41:37
Speaker 2: think you know anything about this case, no matter if
41:41
Speaker 2: you think it's insignificant, doesn't matter, please call homicide two
41:46
Speaker 2: one three, four, eight, six, six, eight nine zero repeat
41:50
Speaker 2: two one, three, four, eight, six, six eight nine zero
41:53
Speaker 2: and Steve Fisher if you have to go back in
41:56
Speaker 2: front of the grand jury, which you are neither denying
41:59
Speaker 2: or confirming, I will make a cameo appearance as a
42:02
Speaker 2: defense attorney and come represent you because I want to
42:05
Speaker 2: be in that grand jury. Okay Fisher for free, pro bono.
42:12
Speaker 2: And tonight we remember an American hero, Corporal Matthew Snuok,
42:17
Speaker 2: Delaware police shot in the line of duty, leaving behind
42:21
Speaker 2: wife turned widow and a daughter without her dad. American
42:27
Speaker 2: hero Corporal Matthew Snuck Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,