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Workplace UTOPIA: What Would the Perfect Future of Work Look Like? | Reality Bites · The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey, it change makers, and welcome to the deck Show
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: with tom Ac gra Let's get into it.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Unlike the Great Nation of France, here at the Deck Show,
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: and indeed Reality Bites, we do not take August off.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Although you will, you will rarely find us more more
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: sort of intercrossed by vacations and holidays. And before we
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: get onto today's fantastic program, a shout out to our
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: esteemed Reality Bites panelist regular Dina, who joins us from
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: holiday from her vacation. Dina, what a soldier? What a trooper?
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: I like it. It's commitment. And I don't know if
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: this is me being a workaholic or I just love
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: you guys so much. But I think I love you
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: buy so much.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, it was. It was non obligatory. She was not
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: required to join us today. I should stress the listeners,
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: but she wanted to because the topic was so we
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: are to miss yes, yes, whereas Meghan I think maybe
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: would have. But Meghan is on top of a mountain
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: somewhere I can't remember where, where there's no Wi Fi
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: at all. She might just tell us that. Though she
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: might just tell us that, but but you know where
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: do you do you care to share with the beautiful
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: surroundings that you join us from today.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, so I'm in Egypt, in Alexandria North Coast where
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: we have fantastic tour coins, water and white sands.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Beautiful, beautiful and what a what a not not just
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  Speaker 2: a sort of a fun back backdrop for today's show,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: but what an appropriate one because today we are talking
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: we were taking a utopian perspective on the future of
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: work rather than rather than reflecting as a as a team,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: and we're joined as well by Orion and Sean. Hello
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: to both of you as well. Hello, we are we
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: are not just reflecting upon this the constant small changes
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: to workplace technology that we document I think quite rigorously
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: across the deck show. And we're not just uh expressing
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: our anxiety vv the anxiety common to all modern employees.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: I think about the future of our workplace, of the
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: future of our professions, the future of work itself. We're
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: gonna we're going to take an absolutely utopian view of
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: the issue and we're going to be recklessly optimistic. To
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: use the phrase that Shawn coined when he gave us
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: this wonderful idea for a program, and say, in a
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: perfect world in the world to come. What what might
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: work look like from the best possible perspective? What happens,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: you might say, if we design the silliness out of work?
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: What if AI removes the versus Sean's phrase, the coordination
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: tax without pretending to be us? What if jobs leave
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: more room for thinking, living, and doing the things that
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: we actually deem important. Sean, so it's your topic. Help
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: us then complete the following sentence In Sean's work utopia,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: nobody ever has to what again?
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: Nobody ever has to use LinkedIn ever again?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, oh, phenomenal phenomena.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: Nobody has to rely on that for And there's plenty
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: of good that comes out of it. It's the way
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: it is today. But there's no sense of performative work.
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: We're having to justify work at that scale because it
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: is kind of a bit like you're acting, isn't it.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: It's like you do the thing and then you talk
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: about the thing you just did, and yeah, I think
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: that that would I would do away with that in
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: my utopian future.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: That is such a great answer, and what a way
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: to kick it off. I have to admit something, actually,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: because I've had to ban myself from successive other forms
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: of social media right due to social media addiction. LinkedIn
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: is like the only like social app left on my phone, right,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: and I kind of find myself going on it, like
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: in a kind of casual way. But it's not my
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: favorite what people world forum for much of anything? So
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: what task John? But seems completely normal today. Do you
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  Speaker 2: think if work in our ideal future here might find
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: utterly ridiculous? I guess besides going on LinkedIn.
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, besides LinkedIn, I think one of them, which would
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  Speaker 4: be silly, and I don't have the solution for it.
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: But I think in the you know, not too distant future,
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  Speaker 4: the concept of PowerPoint in doing slides and talks a
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  Speaker 4: lot of the time in any office culture of white
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  Speaker 4: collar work, it's what we've done recently, these are the successes,
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  Speaker 4: and then what we're going to do pretty soon, and
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  Speaker 4: then you know, you go through and it does remind
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: of like a storytelling time with kids, but all dressed
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  Speaker 4: up as adults. I think that will be laughed at
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  Speaker 4: and kind of marked in the future. And I don't
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  Speaker 4: know what I hope do to replace it, But it
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  Speaker 4: is a bit silly, isn't it. It's kind of a
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  Speaker 4: lot of work is talking about what was just done
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  Speaker 4: and then what we're going to do.
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  Speaker 2: And I am particularly bad Sean, as you might know
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  Speaker 2: from working with me for many years. A particularly backed
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: power points would I would welcome is why do you
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  Speaker 2: think the why do you think it will be supplanted?
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Because it won't be supplanted just because it's silly. It
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: has to be supplanted because there's some shift in the
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  Speaker 2: need and the perceived need for it.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean hopefully in a better future it would
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  Speaker 4: be one of the things highlighted as the waste of time,
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: and time is like everything in my future, so it
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  Speaker 4: would be in my utopian version, So it would be
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: again maybe not even just we all have kind of
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: one primary job, but there's multiple jobs, and forty hours
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  Speaker 4: a week is absurd to some folks. If you're really
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: into the thing you're into, you can work as much
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  Speaker 4: time as you want. But there's also alternatives where folks
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  Speaker 4: work a few hours a week and spend the rest
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: of the time doing whatever it is they're interested in.
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  Speaker 4: So I hopefully it would be something like that, Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: where either an AI helps us identify it or we
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  Speaker 4: culturally recognize like all of these things are are you know,
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  Speaker 4: like a full pa to consider.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: And does it not concern you sean that if time
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: required to work is whittled down so significantly that with
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: it the remuneration for work is accordingly.
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, And yeah, I love these topics as
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: they're so not sans tech. It goes immediately into philosophy
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  Speaker 4: and how people actually really feel in a perfect utopian
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: world imagine and I don't we'll ever get there, but
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: you had some form of universe, so basic income or
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: something that would provide safety net, so everybody has the
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: access to healthcare, you know, shelter quality food, and that's
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: really Once you get the basics covered, then it's up
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: to that person or the community to if they want to,
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: you know, work more and receive more. But I think
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: if it's an impossibility to have people out living in
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: a street and everyone has a roof over their head,
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: then it kind of upends the nature of how many
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: hours should must be put in to have a quote
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: unquote livable wage. All of these things have been invented.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Well, listen, I did not sign up to do a
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: utopian episode. I signed off to the utopian workplace episode. Sure,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: we thinking specifically about the latter and this whole question
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: of visible busyness, you might say, what would become you think,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: do you think a new sign of valuable work? Once
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: the kind of performative aspect of modern professional life, it
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: is retired so to speak.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, again, I can't talk about it without being waxing philosophical.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: That's okay. Act when when.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: People kind of quiet down about what they're doing, I mean,
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: you can be proud of what you do. But again,
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: the performative aspect of LinkedIn, I have to show up.
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: And I think when people kind of shut up and
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: just stick to what they do. I also think the
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: concept I was thinking about it today when you lose
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: track of time, So in two hundred years, if like
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: computers look back at it, they're like, what is this
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: phrase that people say, I lost track of time? It's like, oh, well,
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  Speaker 4: they must have time elapsed and they literally lost track
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  Speaker 4: with That's not what it means for us today as humans.
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  Speaker 2: It means like you were.
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  Speaker 4: The subtext means you are geeking out on something.
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  Speaker 2: And truly interested in something.
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  Speaker 4: So the more times that occurs when you feel like
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: you're losing track of time, it's probably because you're learning
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: something new or novel, or you're gaining progress and something
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  Speaker 4: you're literally geeking out on it. So I think that
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  Speaker 4: would be like a marker for you know, things that
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: would change in the future. If the more times that,
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: if that happens to you a lot now, then kudos.
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: That's great.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Sean would like everyone to quiet and down a bit,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: you know.
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  Speaker 3: So listen, I like it. I like it, but there's
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  Speaker 3: one one bit, right maybe if I am, if I'm
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: adding to it, it's the outcome. It's the immersive experience
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  Speaker 3: of you becoming a creator.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 3: This is where we used to say I lost track
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  Speaker 3: of time because I was doing something that would come
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  Speaker 3: up with an outcome that would be productive. And I'm
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: not going to overuse the productive word because it's misused
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: if we're in the LinkedIn port, but we really need
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: to go and redefine the storytelling. We need to define
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: the outcomes and not just mark them as task task task.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: So if there is a specific project that would have
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  Speaker 3: an outcome, a value, an end goal, whichever term you
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: want to use, if we start to do these things,
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: we're going to enjoy what we're doing and we will
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  Speaker 3: get there. That's the in between between where we are
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: right now and getting into the workplace Youtubian kind of aspect.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: So let's just redefine what our outcomes and how creative
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: we would be doing that. If people are doing things
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: that they really really love, it's going to be super
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: simple to lose.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Track of time. Wonderful. What about if I was to
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: give you the same question shown just answer so brilliantly
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: their Dina, No, no, no pressure, especially on your holiday.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: In Dina's work utopia, nobody would ever have to what again?
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: What would be your blank? There?
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: Spend time in administry of tasks. I would automate most
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: of my administry of tasks and just have more time
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: to do customer experience stuff, to do human things. A
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: human wants to speak to humans most of the time.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Not they want They want to get to whatever they
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: want done. Right, If you're in an ATM machine, you
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: just want things to work, get what you need. But
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: if you need to troubleshoot, you want to have the
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: human being who can help you, will have all the
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: inside information, etc. So if it's up to me, I'll
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: just automate all the administrative stuff leave the rest for
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: people to be created.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: So what wouldn't. To be specific, you wouldn't what would
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: you never aught to make the human experience, the human experience.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: The customer experience. Yes, in any kind of domain, that
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: one I wouldn't automate.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: And if AI removes all of that administrative and coordination work,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I guess this brings us back to the philosophical dimension
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: of the topic we were just touching upon. There was
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: shown what happens to the idea of the job. What
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: is concretely left over? In your view?
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: So we change and evolve as humans. Right, It's always
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: about the adaptability. We need to change our way of working,
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: so we become more focused on what matters the most,
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: the experience, the outcomes, not the tasks per se. Like
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: let's take the example of cutting vegetables in a kitchen.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: It's a good thing to do, but I would go
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: to make that That's not fun. I don't think we
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: would enjoy that much. But let's focus more on creating
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: new meals, giving people new experiences and fusion of tastes,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: et cetera. Right, the same goes for work. I don't
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: want to be redoing updating my Excel files every day,
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: or building slides of PowerPoint but I'd rather focus on
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: the storytelling, the outcome that I'm leading, and the value
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: of the conversation. Right, So this is one of the
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: things you waste a lot of time in at work
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: to prepare for slides, put in the content, et cetera,
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: et cetera. But if we just focus on the storytelling
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: part and the value, we will get too much much
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: better optimized ways and times, will use the time more
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: efficiently and won't get to results. So I think that's
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: what's going to be driving And back to Sean's line before, doctor,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: we can do different jobs, different things at the same time.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: That's what would allow us to do It's just treating
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: things as a full experience, not keeping them disconnected.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: And what about this idea of you know, the traditional
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: fixed role the JD or do you see it more
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: as like the democratized workplace vision was kind of alluding
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: to people moving between problems, projects, areas of expertise.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: So I'm in between.
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  Speaker 5: Right.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: It's good to have everything covered and given to everyone.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: That's fantastic, but you need to keep order a little bit, right,
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: So keep the job descriptions just as an entry point,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: but we need to keep our skills toolbox up to speed,
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: and it needs to be dynamic, right, so we can
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: evolve and enhance our overall human experience. That's our end goal.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: So not the project more, not the task does become
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: subject matter experts in different areas. So now if you
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: tell me, now you're automating half of your task, what
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: are you going to do with the rest of your time, Well,
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: I'll become an SME. I'll become a subject matter expert
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: in security. I'll become a subject matter insecurity and AI,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: the use of compliance, these kind of new things that
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: my work is demanding. I'd rather use my time become
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: an SME in them, which means I need to have
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: a bigger or a wider toolbox of skills, and that
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: will make us more valuable than the one size fits
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: all kind of thing before. So the job description is
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: one size fits all in my opinion. It just gets
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: you into a conversation, but it doesn't get you to
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: the outcome or to the result. That one becomes more
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: clear when you start to have a conversation with the
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: human As example, it's one of the things I do
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: in my day to day when we're hiring people right
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: and expanding teams, et cetera. It's good people. We get
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: them through the job descriptions, that's fine, they fit, But
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: then you start to get involved in a conversation, you
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: need to look for the skills that they have, their
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: communications skills, emotional intelligence, all of these kinds of things
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: that are not measurable and they're not AI, right, so
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to measure their use on AI. That's
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: going to be easy. Given people can be prompted with
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: prompts so they can do their jobs. But to perform
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: and give the results at the end of the day
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: where you're in the customer experience business, then you still
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: need the basic skills that are let's call them soft skills.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: That's the simplest group. If we want to put them
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: in a place, the cognitive ones that AI cannot win
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: it and every they do, it's just going to be
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: like a mirror and that's not what you need. You
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: need the real deal, the human fingerprint.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: And how do you feel dinner? How do you feel
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: your own day to day work has been impacted by
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: the last two point five years of AI transformation? How
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: different does your your days look like? Does your work
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: feel like to what it was?
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: It's some It's much more efficient to be honest, Like,
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: I can use my time in smaller chunks to do
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: a lot of work that I used to take some
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: weeks from me or or or days to assemble data
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: or consolidate what I need and excels, et cetera. Now
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: I can just prompt keep a specific persona do one, two, three, four, ma'am.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: I have the output. I take that result and build
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: on top of it. So now let's just think about
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: it this way. Back in the days, I used to
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: work with smaller lego pieces. Now I'm building sets of Lego.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: It's not just smaller pieces. I have bigger sets. I
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: can build cities. I can build bigger things. So I
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: can make much quicker progress just by the use of
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: AI in my day today. You just need to know
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: your use case for real. It's just again, AI is
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: just one more knife in the kitchen.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: It's not the whole meal, Ariana. Do you do you
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: relate to that is as a description of the way
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: AI has impacted your own workplace experience or your own
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: sense of professional engagement, or would it strike you differently.
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: I don't think that's specifically my experience, but I do
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: think it's interesting to sort of just hear, you know,
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: what are the parts of work that people do or
• 17:24
  Speaker 6: don't value and how much that varies person to person. Right,
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: So Sean is saying less power points, less sort of storytelling,
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: where I Stina is saying more storytelling. And yeah, so
• 17:39
  Speaker 6: that's just the first thing that stood out to me
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: is that, you know, the problem isn't the PowerPoint it's
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: the pointlessness.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: To me, power pointless.
• 17:54
  Speaker 6: I think there's a certain amount of what makes the
• 18:00
  Speaker 6: AI experience really good or bad is the culture underneath it.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: I think there's a certain amount of, yes, big system
• 18:14
  Speaker 6: stuff that's really important. You know, how do things work
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: so that we can create a better workplace and in
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: some ways that is independent of AI, and AI can
• 18:24
  Speaker 6: just fit into that and make that easier and better,
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: or it can do the converse. It can really demand Okay,
• 18:30
  Speaker 6: well why don't you have that report yesterday? If you
• 18:33
  Speaker 6: can have a tool that does it without really considering
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: about like how do we make sure that it's telling
• 18:39
  Speaker 6: the right story and not a pointless story? Things like that.
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: So I like the idea of what is the environment
• 18:50
  Speaker 6: in which we're using AI and how does it really
• 18:53
  Speaker 6: facilitate a positive relationship to work and a positive relationship
• 18:58
  Speaker 6: to information, and then also like what is the most
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: human way of communicating that information. So unfortunately, a lot
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: of my most time consuming ADMIN tasks involved talking to people,
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: and I actually think it's really important that I don't
• 19:13
  Speaker 6: use AI for that because it's relational. Right, So much
• 19:17
  Speaker 6: of my work is relational, And first of all, it's
• 19:19
  Speaker 6: kind of rude if I'm sending somebody an AI message,
• 19:22
  Speaker 6: and I think that should absolutely continue to be our culture.
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: On second of all, it removes the possibility of connection,
• 19:29
  Speaker 6: and that's part of also what makes my job joyful, Right,
• 19:32
  Speaker 6: I have these great conversations with people all over the world,
• 19:36
  Speaker 6: and we also you know, I get updates on somebody's
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: dog and their family and then they help me out
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: with a project and it takes a few seconds. Right,
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: It's this is not overhead. This is an important part
• 19:52
  Speaker 6: of work, is that we are humans working with humans.
• 19:57
  Speaker 6: So I think that's that's an important compon on it
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: for me, And that's one of the things that like
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: I can't utamate.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Did you hear that, Sean? It's one of the important
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: parts of work into human communication. Yeah, it matters, are
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: you a yeah? I didn't say the opposite. I don't think.
• 20:19
  Speaker 6: Maybe not at all. And that's all song, you know, like, yeah,
• 20:22
  Speaker 6: how do we get rid of the pointless power points?
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: Like, how do we spend more time on the things
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: that are valuable?
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Agreed? Agreed? Well, imagine Oreana. It is twenty forty and
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: you are visiting what Sean calls the museum of pointless work.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: What present day workplace, task, ritual, or object is displayed
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: or perhaps should be displayed behind the class.
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: Okay, I love this question. I'm going to take an
• 20:52
  Speaker 6: image tour picture this. You're a museum. There's a giant diorama. Okay,
• 20:56
  Speaker 6: we can't class those little tiny miniatures. I love miniature.
• 21:00
  Speaker 6: And you see rooms full of people and they're abject chaos.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Remember what they say, as I said again, there's a
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: room full.
• 21:09
  Speaker 6: Of people and it's abject.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Chaos, object chaos.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: Yes, the meeting has run long. It's an hour and
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: a half long meeting at Trecious. There's no agenda, and
• 21:21
  Speaker 6: afterwards nobody knows why or what they're doing. Okay, this
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: is the diorama. It is the worst possible meeting. It
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: is the confluence of all the things that happen when
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: people uh are performing the work without actually accomplishing things,
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: and instead we have AI that is built into our
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: basic little work processes. So every single meeting we have
• 21:52
  Speaker 6: has an agenda. Every single meeting is automatically shortened by
• 21:56
  Speaker 6: five minutes at the end or maybe at the big
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: because people are so bad at ending things on time.
• 22:04
  Speaker 6: And it's fine because we have these tools that make
• 22:07
  Speaker 6: things run smoothly, so you don't worry about you know,
• 22:10
  Speaker 6: always everyone going to be able to connect easily. Of
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: course they will, because even if it doesn't, you know,
• 22:17
  Speaker 6: if they have a problem with teams, they're can have
• 22:19
  Speaker 6: this handy dandy spark assistant that's going to fix it
• 22:21
  Speaker 6: for them proactively and let them know, hey, I fix
• 22:25
  Speaker 6: that issue. You don't have to worry. Your meeting's going
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: to start on time. You're going to be able to
• 22:30
  Speaker 6: hear everybody, and at the end you're going to have
• 22:33
  Speaker 6: a nice, clear little list of takeaways with what everyone's
• 22:36
  Speaker 6: going to be working on. You won't have to rely
• 22:38
  Speaker 6: on memory for admin tasks, and you're just going to
• 22:43
  Speaker 6: have wayless chaos and time spent on these fiddly little
• 22:47
  Speaker 6: things that we try to establish with culture now, but
• 22:52
  Speaker 6: the AI helps reinforce positive cultural artifacts and practices.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: So full museum tour, thank you. Just adding to what
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: you brought up, Arina about workplace communication, already mentioned the
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: importance of keeping say much communication human, and I completely
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: agree with you on that front. By the way, are
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: there things that are their forms of workplace communication? It
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: should be delegated to a I have you anything to
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: add to that theme of organic and inorganic workplace communication
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: more generally?
• 23:32
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So that's that was a little bit what I
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: was thinking with. You know, how do we create this
• 23:38
  Speaker 6: environment where good, good habits are reinforced by AI and
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: supported by AI and positive cultural things. Right. So, I
• 23:51
  Speaker 6: know someone who I'm very fond of, but it's very
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: very brusque, who has started using AI to sort of
• 24:00
  Speaker 6: help them check their tone. Oh, and I have to
• 24:06
  Speaker 6: say they're doing a much better job of not being
• 24:14
  Speaker 6: as much of a jerk.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Inadvertently.
• 24:17
  Speaker 6: Right, this is somebody who just has a bit of
• 24:19
  Speaker 6: a tendency to steam more people with their opinions, and
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: you know, relatable it happens. I also am a person
• 24:27
  Speaker 6: who gets very excited about ideas and so what they've
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: been doing is sort of using this as a check. Now.
• 24:33
  Speaker 6: I think this is sometimes a tricky road, right, but
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: I really appreciate that this person has identified their own
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: weakness and it's like I can tackle this using AI
• 24:44
  Speaker 6: and it's a very human thing to do. But they've
• 24:46
  Speaker 6: managed to use AI to do this pretty effectively. And
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: obviously it's not one hundred percent, and I think some
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: of it is also you know, they're building their own skills,
• 24:54
  Speaker 6: and by just taking the time to reflect and like
• 24:57
  Speaker 6: change their messaging, they may not realize how much they're
• 25:00
  Speaker 6: missing that skill. But I think it's fantastic and I
• 25:04
  Speaker 6: think that's a great example of like it isn't always
• 25:10
  Speaker 6: about replacing things, it's also about how do we use
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: it to scaffold skills. And then, like I said, I
• 25:15
  Speaker 6: hate it when meetings don't have agendas or don't have takeaways,
• 25:19
  Speaker 6: and I feel like that's the kind of thing where
• 25:21
  Speaker 6: AI is really great, is to make sure that you're
• 25:24
  Speaker 6: not missing that, and I think it's one of those
• 25:28
  Speaker 6: things that against scaffolds people into much better habits.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: My mother, Oriana, was working with a workman on a
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: project that was important to her and he wasn't. He
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: wasn't a crook, right, but he was. He could be
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: extremely aggressive and emotionally kind of intense, and she became
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: really really intimidated. I took over the communications with this
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: guy to just try and cool things down and to
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: try and have like a protect layer. My mum was
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: getting very upset about it all, and it was going.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: It was it went really really well, but it was
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: like a protracted, like six eight months of communicating with him,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: and at a certain point I stopped putting all of
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I started putting all of my emails to him into
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: a LLM, and it would almost always, almost always tone
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: down my own emotional tone right to keep things cool,
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: to keep things steady, to make sure I didn't get frustrated,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I didn't cross the line. I didn't, I didn't provoke him.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: And it was it was amusing to witness this emotional
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: tone in my own communications being toned down, toned down,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: toned down. But it was ultimately really really effective. I
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: ultimately had to hand it to AI as having a
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: better measure of how to engage in a sustainable, calm
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: way with this gentleman than I. Did you know? And
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: what about you when when Ai tries to write in
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: your voice, Sorry, Anna, what does it change? What does
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: it miss? Not necessarily in such a kind of fraught context,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: but more.
• 27:04
  Speaker 6: Generally, also, this is very sweet that you were able
• 27:07
  Speaker 6: to help her with that, And I think, yeah, that's
• 27:10
  Speaker 6: the idea, right. You have filters on filters, and sometimes
• 27:13
  Speaker 6: that's a good thing and sometimes that's a bad thing.
• 27:16
  Speaker 6: And I think what I struggle with as somebody who
• 27:19
  Speaker 6: the main core of my job is not writing right.
• 27:21
  Speaker 6: When I have to write something, I often go to
• 27:23
  Speaker 6: somebody like Sean and go, hey, you help me out
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: with this. But I do quite like writing, and when
• 27:28
  Speaker 6: I write, I do have a distinctive voice. I tend
• 27:32
  Speaker 6: to praise things in a way that is very particular
• 27:37
  Speaker 6: to me. I have creative metaphors. I love creative metaphors.
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: I love visuals things like that, And I see I'm
• 27:47
  Speaker 6: also very good at summarizing things, very very succinctively. It's
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: a huge part of what I do is restating things
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: in brief and those are two things that I find
• 27:57
  Speaker 6: anytime I ask chat to be teacher revise my writing
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: already doing is I don't let it reread anything I
• 28:03
  Speaker 6: ask it to give me a line by line what
• 28:06
  Speaker 6: IN might offer as a suggestion, and then I change
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: what it's offering me. I just take the principle, right
• 28:12
  Speaker 6: like did I need to change graandmar did I need
• 28:15
  Speaker 6: to make something clear? But I don't use its suggestions
• 28:19
  Speaker 6: because they're all, like you said, flat. It feels like,
• 28:22
  Speaker 6: you know, when you see somebody on a photo that
• 28:25
  Speaker 6: has been filtered so hard that you can barely see
• 28:27
  Speaker 6: their face anymore. All their features meant melt away. And
• 28:31
  Speaker 6: that's the thing that I don't like, is that it
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: strips away all of that personality and all of those details.
• 28:39
  Speaker 6: And also then it just does a very poor job
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: of saying things succinctly, and that drives me crazy. I'm
• 28:44
  Speaker 6: gonna I'm gonna say that I think that's one thing
• 28:46
  Speaker 6: that a lot of these tools need, is they need
• 28:48
  Speaker 6: a succinct mode.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: MM can be very vibose, can't it? Corect What we've
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: just got in. We've just veered into complaining about a
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: lens together, haven't we a little bit? But you know,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I have to favor the utopian angle doesn't come to
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: me very easily, right I. I I sometimes think that
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: we we underestimate the need for like mundaneity for repetitive
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: repetition in life as a kind of ballast. You know,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: it's something that that that that allows us, you know,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: it allows us to like take time to relax without
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: to relax the creative part of our brains, you know,
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: and the and the active part of our brains without
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: necessarily over overly relaxing. Shall we say, you know, just
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: sort of watching a.
• 29:38
  Speaker 6: YouTube value of boredom argument, right, Like we need to think,
• 29:42
  Speaker 6: we need space to be creative. Like I'm a huge
• 29:44
  Speaker 6: fan of I'll work on something and I'll go take
• 29:48
  Speaker 6: a walk before I come bab to it, because otherwise
• 29:52
  Speaker 6: they can't put a fresh eye on it.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Sean, let's give the last word to you. Brought us
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: this wonderful topic. Take us, take us all.
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: I's so hard for me to be optimistic in utopia,
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: you know what I think.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: All of this, We're gonna be like why in the
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: future and be like, why weren't we just all working
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: on something directly related to climate change? But there you go,
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: Well it's just what we're we thinking.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: How still adding to it? Adding to it rather than yes, okay,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: well that's what that does. That does not exactly bring
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: us to our conclusion on a utopian note. But that's okay.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: And look, maybe maybe the at work utopia is already
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: here with us now, believe it or not, because Dina,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: of course is choosing, choosing to join us with this
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: conversation from our holiday so special special thanks to your Dina,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: and and and and and thanks Rihanna, Thanks Sean, Thanks
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: again Dina for joining us. It was a wonderful chat.
• 30:56
  Speaker 6: Goodbye, I love it.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Thanks everybody.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: That's it for this week's Deck Show. We'll be back
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: next week. And if you don't already, be sure to
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: follow the show so you don't miss an episode until
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: next time.