Latest / The Nerdy Photographer Podcast / 118 - Instant Focus: Using Photography to Cultivate Presence and Awareness

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118 - Instant Focus: Using Photography to Cultivate Presence and Awareness · The Nerdy Photographer Podcast

0:00
Casey Fatchett: Uh, could you keep it down? I'm trying to
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focus in here. Oh, hey there. Welcome to the nerdy
0:12
photographer podcast. I'm your host. Casey Fatchett, if you've
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never listened to the show before, welcome. In addition to
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providing entertaining and informative photography related
0:21
information. I also go on adventures with the crew of the
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Let's keep it going. F, 2.0 sorry about the mess. Anyway.
0:59
Where was I? Where am I? Indeed, there seems to have been a bit
1:04
of a snafu with our quantum drive, and I'm currently out of
1:09
phase with this dimension, if I concentrate on being present and
1:13
in the moment, I can manage to remain solid, and we can
1:16
hopefully correct this issue. F 2.0 is supposed to be finding me
1:20
a sensory deprivation helmet to help with that process. Speaking
1:24
of being present, in this episode of the podcast, I talk
1:27
with photographer James Hines about using photography to
1:30
cultivate mindfulness and being in the moment, that conversation
1:35
coming up right after 2.0 I'm sorry, did I break your
1:40
concentration? I'm a race car, and you've got me in the red.
1:47
Hey there, nerds, the nerdy photographer has a brand new
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website, and with it, we've created a resources page where
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design services to printing, it's all in there. Be sure to go
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that's nerdy photographer.com/resources,
2:14
hello and welcome to the nerdy photographer podcast. I'm your
2:24
host, Casey Fatchett, and on this episode, I am here with
2:28
photographer James Hines James, welcome to the show.
2:34
James Hines: Hello, hello, hello.
2:37
Casey Fatchett: And we're gonna start. You're very welcome.
2:41
We're gonna start off with the dice breaker to get us started.
2:41
And it's a 17 what is the best bit of photography advice you've
2:45
ever received?
2:46
James Hines: Oh, it's going to be cliche, but it's shoot for
2:53
yourself. It's a very it's a very easy thing to fall into the
2:59
trap of social media and start shooting for what you feel other
3:04
people will like. And I think the authenticity of your work
3:10
and stuff is is really, is really based on you shooting
3:15
from like, the soul
3:17
Casey Fatchett: From yourself, is that, yeah, I don't think
3:19
it's cliche at all. It's one of those things that you by being
3:25
true to yourself, that's how you create something original and
3:29
unique to you, as opposed to copying what's Yeah,
3:33
James Hines: and I mean, you're not, you're not creating
3:35
anything really sort of, I don't like the word authentic, because
3:39
I think, I think whatever your creators are create is
3:41
authentic, but if you're constantly thinking about
3:45
pleasing other people instead of sort of working on things that
3:50
you want to create, you're going to find the works not as good.
3:53
Casey Fatchett: And had this conversation in a recent
3:58
interview where we discussed that failure teaches you things,
4:05
and if you're too concerned with pleasing everybody, you worry
4:13
about failing. And failure doesn't have to be a big thing.
4:16
It doesn't have to be like a total crash burn. It can be just
4:19
little mistakes. And yeah, if you're too concerned with
4:24
pleasing other people instead of trying to get what you see in
4:29
your mind's eye or whatever the case may be, you you aren't
4:36
willing to make mistakes. Yeah, and you can learn from that. You
4:41
learn a lot of important things from making mistakes.
4:43
James Hines: Yeah, yes, you never learn anything from from
4:46
always succeeding there.
4:48
Casey Fatchett: Well, it must be tough for people who never fail
4:51
it. Yeah, I don't know. No idea what that's like. Yeah, no, so
4:57
James is the story of how we connected. Is kind of a there's,
5:01
there's some questions here. We were talking about it before
5:06
recording
5:07
James Hines: we was yes. It's, it's great to finally get to
5:09
chat with you. By the way, we've bounced off each other on
5:13
Instagram for quite some time now, and it's
5:15
Casey Fatchett: been been a while. But the the thing is, you
5:19
said, Oh, I just started following you when you saw the
5:22
my weird photographers.
5:24
James Hines: Real, yeah, absolutely great. Real. I don't
5:27
know if anybody see should pause this podcast right now and have
5:30
a little look on the nerdy photographer. And he basically
5:33
does this. It does this real where it's just, it's just
5:37
saying all these things about what photographers do, and it's
5:40
quite amusing.
5:41
Casey Fatchett: I mean, the funny thing was, I, I saw, like,
5:46
those. I hadn't seen any other photographer ones. I had just
5:50
seen the trend of people saying, you know, we're writers, or
5:53
we're this, yeah. And I was just like, you know what there? And
5:57
just immediately thought to myself, there's, there's a lot
6:01
that goes on with photographers.
6:02
James Hines: Yeah that's the summit to learn from that as
6:06
well. If you're, if you're looking at, if you're looking at
6:10
trying to progress on social media, quite a lot. Quite a lot
6:14
is about mimicking ideas and bringing it into your own niche
6:19
and stuff like that. And it can really be quite a successful way
6:22
of bringing up the Instagram, and that seems to be one of the
6:26
really great ways of getting the reels started.
6:29
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I had no clue. I thought this will get a
6:34
little bit of play. Yeah, it'll be funny. And then that was 3
6:40
million views. This is crazy. Yeah, it's insanity. But the
6:44
funny thing about that is, I believe I was following you
6:48
before you ever saw
6:49
James Hines: Yeah, I just saw it, and I thought absolutely
6:51
brilliant. I've got to give this guy a follow. Oh, hello. I know
6:54
you.
6:54
Casey Fatchett: Well, it is because I my wife and I love
6:58
Scotland. We've been several times Scotland and traveling.
7:03
We've traveled in, you know, England.
7:07
James Hines: It's off limits for me Scotland at the moment,
7:09
because it's what they call midget, Midget, oh
7:12
Casey Fatchett: yes, it's the worst we for people who don't
7:15
understand Midge season in Scotland, is is so crazy. It's
7:22
like mosquitoes, but they're just like, swarms and swarms of
7:26
them, and they're horrible. And I remember when my wife and I
7:29
went on, we went to London for a few days on our honeymoon, and
7:34
then we went up to Scotland, and it was just the beginning, oh
7:39
yeah, in like, May of mid season, and it was people were
7:42
like, Oh, you're this isn't even bad. But I also grouse. Are you
7:46
familiar with grouse? Whatever the yellow, yellow flowering
7:50
plant. Apparently, I'm allergic to it, and I was standing out in
7:54
the field. My wife has a picture of me standing out in the field
7:56
with my camera taking a picture of this landscape. And she got
8:03
some video of me. I'm just sneezing repeatedly, repeatedly,
8:07
and I look
8:08
James Hines: the joys of the joys of the British country
8:10
Saturday, I
8:11
Casey Fatchett: turned to her and I say, I wonder what is
8:14
making me sneeze? And I'm just surrounded by it like, Yeah, I
8:17
wonder what it is, yeah. Could it be this flowering plant that
8:22
you're surrounded by?
8:23
James Hines: Yeah, it has potential.
8:26
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, that might be it. So, yeah. So I just, I
8:31
followed a lot of people who photograph in the area. I love
8:35
the landscape shots. And, yeah, I think I had been following you
8:38
for, I don't think, for a long time, but for a while before,
8:41
yeah, we connected. Yeah.
8:43
James Hines: Well, I've predominantly photographed the
8:48
North York Mars, which is a national park within Yorkshire.
8:52
And recently I learned to ride a motorbike, and that's the only
8:57
way I transport myself around the country. And so that serpent
9:01
up the doors to travel in favor afield, and Scotland was the
9:04
first place I'd be lined for absolutely freezing by the time
9:08
I've got there. I'm pretty sure if I'd have stayed on my bike
9:11
any longer, I'd lost my feet, but it was absolutely what time
9:15
of year was it? It was like, late on something like that.
9:21
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I can get cold, and this is this, we're
9:24
gonna go right into what's the weather like?
9:29
James Hines: I've got to talk about the weather when you've
9:31
got English, English participant on the program, yeah, the
9:36
weather's really, really warm. So I'm sort of sulking at the
9:39
moment, because I like fog and mood and really ethereal, like,
9:44
sort of, you know, them really apocalyptic conditions. And I've
9:48
gotten all of them clear blue skies and a bit dry. And yeah,
9:53
Casey Fatchett: it's blazingly hot here in the in the United
9:56
States right now. And, yeah, but like anybody who goes into.
10:00
Checks out your work there. I'm going to include links to your
10:04
Instagram and your website, but when it goes and checks out
10:07
James's work, yeah, you're going to see there's definitely a
10:11
repeating, recurring theme of cloudy, like sort of dark skies,
10:16
dark, very moody atmosphere to your photos.
10:21
James Hines: Yeah, people often think I'm in a really bad mood,
10:24
but I promise I'm not. I just, I just love that.
10:29
Casey Fatchett: It's just the weather, it's just the weather
10:31
and the more,
10:33
James Hines: yeah, it's you can use photography to sort of
10:36
create, like these sort of fictional worlds, and that's
10:40
what I try to do within my photography. And, you know, I
10:43
create characters and create story lines and that sort of
10:46
thing.
10:46
Casey Fatchett: It's what you see, yeah, what you see in your
10:51
head. Yeah.
10:52
James Hines: Escaping from the glorious sunshine is what I'm
10:55
trying to do.
10:57
Casey Fatchett: Any something that you have mentioned, just
11:01
from following you and from seeing some of you're expressing
11:07
how photography makes you feel, is that you mentioned a lot how
11:12
taking photos makes you feel more present in the moment. How
11:17
did you come to discover that?
11:20
James Hines: So I was actually at University at the time,
11:23
studying politics of our thing, and I picked up a camera, and I
11:29
was out shooting. And I sort of had cameras in the past, and I
11:35
knew that I really enjoyed photography, but I was stood
11:38
near this bridge. It's called the Humber bridge. It's one of
11:41
the biggest shots that I've had that has been the most
11:43
successful. And I was stood, I was just stood there, and I was
11:49
listening sort of to the there was like a nearby bar, and I
11:53
could hear the sounds of people enjoying themselves, and the
11:57
waves lapping on the shore, and sort of the sky just turned this
12:02
incredible red, and I just became very present and in the
12:06
moment. And it was like a really profound experience. And, you
12:12
know, he's just like, wow. And I just realized at that moment,
12:16
and I've read a book by a cat, totally the power of now. And in
12:23
it, he says, realize deeply that all you ever have is the present
12:26
moment. And I never really realized that I knew what he
12:32
meant, and I tried, but that was the first time it really hit me
12:36
as being very present, and photography, I found, is the key
12:40
into the present moment.
12:41
Casey Fatchett: They I've read the also read that book. It's,
12:44
it's something that I try to do. I've been doing more often now.
12:50
We were talking before we started recording, about my my
12:53
latest like working with film more. I find that film, like
12:57
shooting film, makes me more present.
13:01
James Hines: Yeah, I imagine it's the slowing down, the
13:03
aspect.
13:05
Casey Fatchett: I go out with my dog on hikes, and I'm
13:08
photographing either, you know, the dog, or, you know, something
13:12
I see. And it really brings the moment into focus, because you
13:16
have to think, everything's manual, yeah, everything is. I
13:20
can't just sit there and be like, Okay, this is, you know,
13:23
I'm just gonna fire off a few shots. I found in one of the
13:30
things, that same passage from the book, and I highly recommend
13:37
the power of now to anybody who's listening. I'll include a
13:40
link to that in the Episode Notes. But I was having those
13:45
moments when I was out hiking with my dog, when I wasn't
13:49
photographing anything. Yeah, and I would it's something, when
13:53
we talk about being present, it doesn't mean something that you
13:56
are constantly doing. It can be a I think that some people fall
14:05
into the trap of thinking that they have to constantly, yeah,
14:10
at all times, yeah.
14:12
James Hines: I think if you start off with the thought
14:16
process of having the present moment as your base, and you try
14:22
to ground yourself regularly within the present moment. So I
14:26
struggle to meditate. You know, it's not something that I do.
14:29
You know, there's always this mental block. But photography,
14:32
on the other hand, for me, is there's absolutely no block. I'm
14:35
completely obsessed with the crack. And I think grounding
14:39
yourself within the present moment is really important, and
14:43
we can spend a long time never here. You know, we're constantly
14:47
time traveling in the worrying about the future, our regret in
14:52
the past, and all these things. And I think it's really
14:56
important. And if you can link photography with you. The
15:00
present moment. It actually really, really improves your
15:03
photography as well, because you become hypersensitive and hyper,
15:06
hyper aware to your surroundings. And I think that
15:10
process of practicing the presence with the photography
15:14
will really, really create something quite special, if you
15:18
you know, if you practice it in that manner?
15:20
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I am one of those people who can easily
15:24
get sidetracked into like that. The train of thought can just
15:27
derail, yeah, very, very quickly. And I can, you know,
15:31
even when I'm in one of those moments of, you know, I'm it'll
15:36
immediately jump to okay, how does this connect to this
15:40
connect to this thing that I was thinking about earlier? And,
15:43
and, oh, I gotta do this later, and I should write this down,
15:46
and all these other things, instead of just bringing it back
15:50
into Yeah, the yeah, definitely into this moment.
15:55
James Hines: I think it's, I think it's also really sort of
15:58
crucial for people with mental health to have something to
16:02
distract, you know, and to concentrate on. And myself, I,
16:08
you know, I'm afflicted with, I say afflicted. I have bipolar,
16:12
ADHD, and the currently investigating where I'm on the
16:17
autistic spectrum as well. So the sort of sensory issues and
16:20
that sort of thing that's going on with myself and I, yeah, I'm
16:25
lucky, because I can hyper focus, but the having
16:30
photography as a tool to Medicare depression to ground in
16:40
a mania when you know when you you know when you manic, with
16:43
your with your bipolar, or if you're just really struggling,
16:47
you know. And just having this escape place like photography
16:51
for me has been really crucial. And I can really tell when I had
16:54
a camera in my hand for quite a while, because I start really, I
16:57
start really dipping, you know, and I just make sure it's part
17:02
of my life, and it's it comes first above
17:05
Casey Fatchett: everything the Yeah, I myself suffer from,
17:09
suffer, afflicted with whatever, whatever you want to say, I
17:13
anxiety of your character, sir.
17:15
James Hines: The thing is, with mental health, though, and these
17:20
labeling ideas that society likes to, you know, they like to
17:24
label people basically. But the thing is, there's a lot of
17:28
really positive attributes to people with autism, people with
17:32
bipolar. I mean, the amount of energy that you can harness when
17:35
you're on a high is unbelievable, you know, and we
17:40
as society tend to think, right? These people can't do a nine to
17:43
five. They're afflicted with this issue. And I think we as in
17:49
a as a society need to sort of re look at mental illness and
17:55
certain character types as you know, harnessing these people
18:00
with these skills, because there's huge skill sets that
18:04
have been missed, missed out on as a result of seeing it as a
18:07
disability.
18:08
Casey Fatchett: I I think that there, there's parts of that
18:11
that I definitely agree with, that you can if you can harness
18:15
it and make sure that you're not, yeah, you aren't hurting
18:20
yourself, or wearing yourself out, or doing damage to yourself
18:24
or someone else, is just making sure that there are things. My
18:30
anxiety was untreated for many, many years, and I look back at
18:36
at how I acted from the time I was a teenager, how I prepared
18:43
for things, just the over preparation, the and that is,
18:48
you can use that as a now, I think are like, Okay, this is a
18:52
tool. This is a way that I can, I can focus this instead of
18:57
letting it get out of control.
19:00
James Hines: I mean yourself being there. So, I mean, anxiety
19:04
is terrible. Is terrible to deal with that. But put someone who's
19:07
anxious in a really high stress situation, they will see
19:12
everything. Yeah, they see things that people other people
19:15
don't, you know, and there's an attribute there that's that's
19:19
not recognized. It's just seen as an issue, yeah, you just
19:23
needs to be worked out somehow.
19:25
Casey Fatchett: I think that it's interesting because we also
19:28
like it's a coping mechanism. Definitely, people think I need
19:32
to learn how to read situations very quickly, absolutely.
19:35
James Hines: Yeah, read the room, yeah, you've just, you
19:37
know, before you've even sat down. Is a skill, yeah? Yeah.
19:41
Casey Fatchett: And for me, as a wedding photographer, it's
19:43
helped me learn body language to a point where I can guess where
19:48
people are going to move, or what they're what's going to
19:50
happen next, or they're about to laugh and like knowing that
19:53
moment is coming. Because, you know, I can break it down into
19:57
I've seen this, you know, I've analyzed. Over analyzed it
20:01
literally, to the point where I pretty spot on.
20:06
James Hines: That comes with being sub character type as
20:09
well, like if you if you're prone to people pleasing and
20:13
stuff like that, as well, as you become very good at reading
20:15
people, don't you? And perfect for a wedding photographer, I
20:19
think, yeah.
20:19
Casey Fatchett: So do you find that, I mean, you mentioned that
20:23
you know when you're you're starting to dip when you haven't
20:26
had your camera in your hand, but do you think that just the
20:29
act of being present while you're taking photos has helped
20:33
you generally stay more present or mindful?
20:37
James Hines: I think having something else to think about is
20:42
the main aspect of it. So the present moment obviously happens
20:46
while you're in this craft. And it's, it's one of the profound
20:51
benefits of photography for me. But having, having this, having
20:55
this thing to be obsessed about, other than how I am feeling, is
21:01
it's, I'm not, I'm not self, self thinking. I'm thinking
21:06
about so for example, I will go out and do a shoe, and then I
21:11
won't touch the photos. And then I also use editing in this
21:15
manner. So quite often, if I am really struggling with
21:20
something, I will, I will try and sort of express myself
21:25
within my editing as well. So you'll get maybe a different you
21:28
could put the image in front of me three or four different
21:31
times, and you'll get a different image depending on how
21:34
I'm feeling, because I try and try and be authentic within the
21:37
edit. But that's what I mean. That's what art is, isn't it?
21:41
Yeah. So it's a reflection of lay in the camp of photography
21:45
is an art. Yeah, it really is.
21:47
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, you're creating something in all of
21:49
those tools that we use, whether it's the camera or, you know, in
21:53
the editing process, to create something that comes from you.
21:59
And I was just reading a thread by a friend of mine from
22:04
childhood who's was talking about artificial intelligence
22:08
and said, you know, the AI does not produce art. It's not a
22:13
commodity, like the art is what comes out of the person.
22:17
James Hines: Yeah, you know, whether it's strange one AI
22:21
into, well, I think we should wish. I should come on
22:23
regularly, because I'm quite enjoying this chat. We should
22:27
discuss AI in one of them.
22:29
Casey Fatchett: I've had this discussion. I will have this
22:31
discussion, yeah, over and over, over and over again. I think
22:35
that there are that that using it as a tool can be helpful for
22:40
me. It's great for, like, calling through a bunch of
22:44
images from either events or, like, if I'm doing a headshot
22:47
thing for corporate, like, it can go through hundreds and
22:51
hundreds of photos in, you know, a matter of minutes, and, like,
22:53
pull out all the ones where the people's eyes are closed. And
22:55
I'm not going to use that. So that's great. That sort of thing
22:59
is great. That's a wonderful tool to use. I don't think that
23:02
like the generative part of it, and like basically copying
23:08
someone else's work.
23:10
James Hines: I'm on the fence. I'm on the fence with it, with
23:12
AI, because I think as long as there's the I think, I think it
23:17
could be a good thing, because it will help propel technology
23:20
forward and free up time for creatives to not be looking like
23:25
you said, hundreds of photos that have potentially loads of
23:28
them that you can use and that could take up a lot of time. So
23:33
it's freeing up your time to be more creative in that aspect in
23:36
it. So yeah, I wish I'm on the fence.
23:38
Casey Fatchett: Definitely. I wish, generally, it was doing
23:40
more things, like my dishes than like, yeah, copying other
23:44
people's artwork. So, yeah, absolutely. Getting back to to
23:50
being present, like, are there, like, I don't know, rituals or
23:54
anything like that, that you go through to when you're shooting,
23:57
it's a
23:59
James Hines: little bit like setting up your tripod. I don't
24:03
like using tripods, by the way, if I can get away, we're not
24:06
using one anyway. That's a different story for another day.
24:09
I tend to,
24:11
Casey Fatchett: okay, hold on a second. That's delve into that.
24:14
Because, I mean, a lot of your shots seem to have like, a
24:18
longer exposure. You're just shooting that handheld as much?
24:21
James Hines: Yeah, it's very rare that I do actually shoot a
24:23
long exposure. And I'm moving on towards that now. I've just,
24:28
I've just done a collaboration with Nissy UK, yeah, and I'm
24:34
hoping I'd like to be an ambassador for the simple reason
24:38
that their products are absolutely amazing, and it's and
24:41
it's unlocked the faff for me in in photography, you know. So,
24:46
you know, when you've got a, I've got off topic kind of, but,
24:50
you know, with fillers, when you're twisting them on and then
24:54
twisting them off, and it gets stuck on the end of your lens,
24:57
yeah, and you get irritated that, that moment there you've
24:59
lost. Store creativity, yeah, and a little bit, I felt a
25:02
little bit like that with tripods for a long time and long
25:05
exposure photography I just sort of stepped away from because I
25:08
felt, I felt I was, I was struggling, because I was
25:12
getting frustrated, and by the time I've got the filters out,
25:18
like my creative moment had gone so I trained myself to not use
25:21
filters. So recently I've started again. But back to
25:25
topic. So when I get to a scene, you're often, often quite
25:33
flustered or flush or whatever, and you sit down for five
25:36
minutes. So I just sort of sit and try and observe a little bit
25:41
so maybe just slow down, you know, just sort of slow myself
25:45
down, and sort of take notice of maybe the grass that's blowing
25:51
and listening into the beds that are just tweeting, and just
25:55
really concentrating on, on What's happening around me in
26:00
this very moment and moving around with my consciousness.
26:05
One minute, I'm listening to the birds, and then I'm listening to
26:08
the sound of another wave lapping on the show the feeling
26:14
of the wind blowing in your face and that sort of thing. And it
26:17
just really slows you into this really calm, quiet space where
26:23
that incessant chatting of your brain is stopped, you know, and
26:29
that creates a really great space for photography, because
26:33
you become very aware within the moment, and then you sort of,
26:37
you sort of explore, and then eventually you go through From
26:40
the sensations and the sounds to the visual, you know, and then
26:44
that's a really great starting point, I think, to find in a
26:47
composition within the scene, yeah, like that,
26:51
Casey Fatchett: the process of just being open, yeah, be
26:57
opening yourself up
26:58
James Hines: yeah, yeah, in the now, you know, You can even
27:01
practice it on the way. You know, as you're walking along,
27:04
you know the feeling of your feet touching the ground as
27:07
you're moving, and
27:08
Casey Fatchett: not so much while you're riding the
27:10
motorcycle.
27:11
James Hines: Not Well, yeah, if you start, if you start the we
27:14
have to be very hyper present for that. Yeah, that's another
27:19
reason. As Yes, I ride a motorbike everywhere I go,
27:21
that's, that's, that's where I do, but, yeah, it's, that's
27:25
another avenue that I've found helps with presence. Because I
27:30
think when you're when you're in a vehicle, you're you're
27:33
separated from your environment, whereas on a motorbike, you
27:36
you're with it.
27:38
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, you're feeling the weather. Yeah. And I
27:42
don't if you've never been to the UK, ever, Scotland, Ireland,
27:49
all these the areas they're like, if you're driving around.
27:53
And one of the things that in my trips there and photographing
27:57
things, the thing that always gets me is, we're driving a car,
28:04
and I'm in the car, and I will see something my wife will say,
28:09
Do you want to stop and get a picture of that? And my I'm
28:13
taking in like, there's nowhere, yeah, for this car, absolutely.
28:17
There's nowhere for this car to go. I mean, if I'm on a single
28:21
tracked road, you know, just stop and get out, but like,
28:25
there's the chances of someone, oh, I'll find a pull off.
28:29
James Hines: Yeah, you don't want to be getting shouted at by
28:31
angry Yorkshire men, trust me.
28:32
Casey Fatchett: Oh, I figured out what the the single track
28:36
roads for the people who don't know it's there's just, like,
28:38
one lane. And they
28:42
James Hines: Casey, everybody likes to drive fast on them.
28:44
Casey Fatchett: Yes, they love to drive very fast on them. And
28:47
the thing is, there's little pull offs every so often so you
28:50
can get out of the way and let someone go past you. Yeah. And
28:53
my first time there, I was always pulling off and letting
28:56
people go by. And everyone would smile and wave, and yeah, I, I
29:04
spoke to a local and said, So what's the rule there? Like, I
29:10
haven't really figured out what the rule like, what's the rule
29:13
the pulling off to the side? And she said, Well, whoever pulls up
29:16
first is the one who, like, yeah, who does?
29:20
James Hines: That's just very polite as well, those Brits, you
29:22
know, well, 60% of
29:27
Casey Fatchett: it, I found that I became very popular because I
29:30
was always the one pulling off to the side, and then when I
29:32
came back, the next time, I was like, ah, you know what I think
29:34
they should be like,
29:35
James Hines: give it. You've got to be a bit pushy. You've got to
29:37
be a bit pushy. And, yeah, it's usually, if you're closer, I
29:42
think, to the
29:43
to the layback, yeah, it's supposed to be whoever's closest
29:45
to, yeah, yeah.
29:48
You can just basically pull up anywhere off road. There's a lot
29:53
of off road tracks as well that are accessible to cars. And I'm
29:56
quite lucky, because I can just squeeze through these little
29:59
gates. And pop onto areas where most people have to hike and
30:04
carry loads of equipment.
30:05
Casey Fatchett: And I know this, this is true in Scotland, but I
30:10
don't know if it's true in England. There's a whole in
30:15
Scotland, you are allowed to, like, walk wherever, yeah, yeah.
30:19
I don't know
30:19
James Hines: if there's a public right of where I think, I think,
30:23
I think land here is mainly owned by landowners and stuff,
30:27
but we have public right of way to, you know, walk through,
30:31
yeah. So you
30:32
Casey Fatchett: just can't, you can't you leave things the way
30:35
you found them,
30:36
James Hines: yeah, which, which, absolutely, yeah.
30:40
Casey Fatchett: I was very glad to hear, because at some point
30:42
we had ended up and, like, walking, we're in someone's
30:46
field, and I had gone through, I was like, I'm gonna, there's a
30:50
gate, and I need to go through this gate. I need to, well, as
30:54
long as, like, I'm not letting any sheep out. There's, yeah,
30:58
we're all good. So Is that can you think of like a specific
31:06
instance where the the photography aspect of things
31:12
really helped you connect more deeply, like, what was the first
31:17
time where you felt like you really were connected to the
31:21
moment or the scene when you were taking pictures.
31:26
James Hines: So I've got a Humber bridge shot. If viewers
31:31
want to look on Instagram, I'll keep it unpinned. And that was
31:37
really for me. So it was when I was at university. I was really
31:40
suffering, actually, with my mental health at the time, and
31:44
that was, that was the first time I really found that present
31:47
moment moment, I think we discussed it slightly earlier,
31:50
but I just sort of, like I said, felt the, you know, I had, I had
31:56
the sounds in the background, and I just, I just felt this
31:59
really profound present feeling. You know, I was sort of
32:05
listening to the sounds and of people experiencing, you know, a
32:09
nice evening in the bar that went too far away, and I could
32:12
just hear the waves lapping, and it felt really, sort of intense,
32:17
and really, really, now, do you know what I mean?
32:19
Casey Fatchett: So, actually, I do know what you mean, because
32:22
in the moments where it
32:23
James Hines: just happens and it's like, it's like, you really
32:25
feel really connected. And it was the way that the sky just
32:29
lit, it was just like it was for me, you know, I was just part of
32:35
it, you know, I was just, I was just there, and I was and I
32:38
think, I think photography does that for you, it, it, it makes
32:43
you feel part of the environment. It's the same. So I
32:46
guess that's maybe why I ride a motorbike. You know, like I
32:48
said, I feel like I'm in the environment, part of the
32:52
environment, because you can feel it. You're absorbing in it.
32:55
You know, there's no barrier between you and environment, and
32:58
photography does that as well as you are. If you're stood there,
33:01
for example, for quite a while, wildlife start coming out, and
33:05
they start being interested in you, you know, and they forget
33:09
you there, and they just, they just assume you're part of what,
33:12
what's here, you know, we are, we are connected to the
33:16
environment and little thing. And, I mean, it sounds quite
33:20
hippy, but they tell you not to wear shoes, don't they, all time
33:23
and sorry, they'll tell you to wear shoes. I mean, we wear
33:26
shoes. Sorry, we wear shoes, basically. And it's almost like
33:32
we've got this constant separation from the environment.
33:35
Yeah, there's the phrase we live in boxes. You know, we've got a
33:41
wiper in a box, you know, we got a toilet. It's a box, you know,
33:46
we put our food in a box. It's all well, we seem to be boxed
33:50
off and locked off from nature. You know, when you're out out in
33:54
the environment with your camera, then then them closed
33:59
off. Areas I know more, and you're just part of the world,
34:03
you know? And it's, there's
34:05
Casey Fatchett: a phrase called touching grass, which is, I
34:11
think we like, describes what you're what you're trying to get
34:14
to, like, we need people will just, like, take their shoes off
34:18
and, you know, walk in the grass like you're feeling reconnected
34:21
with, yeah, the earth and
34:23
James Hines: it all sounds. It does all sound quite, as you
34:26
would call it hippie. But I think when you expect it, when
34:29
you experience when you experience it. I mean, I was
34:33
really, really struggling with my mental for very, very long
34:36
time, and I felt like I disconnected from from the
34:43
world. And part of that reconnection aspect was really
34:48
important for my mental health, because, you know, being out in
34:52
nature regularly for me made me realize that it's an important
34:57
part, and I am an important part. Of nature,
35:01
Casey Fatchett: yeah, yeah, I echo that sentiment is it's
35:07
getting out. And I really started hiking a lot more when
35:15
the pandemic started, and it got me into this mindset of, you
35:22
know, there's just, there's so much beauty in nature, and for
35:32
someone away from it, yeah, and for
35:34
James Hines: nine to five jobs, and, I mean, I'm very lucky.
35:38
I've learned that I need photography, and my photography
35:43
is outdoors, so I need to be outdoors daily to to continue
35:49
with this medicine that I've self prescribed myself. So I
35:55
think if anyone's listening and they're struggling or whatever,
35:58
then definitely make it a point of regularly picking your camera
36:04
up and going outside. You know, we call ourselves photographers,
36:08
but if you said that photography is your therapy and you must go
36:13
out and do it, then I think, I think, I think it has profound
36:18
benefits.
36:19
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that it can doing it, just doing
36:26
the thing, as opposed to getting in your head about why you
36:31
should or shouldn't go out and take pictures today or doing
36:36
this thing that you enjoy. And it doesn't have to be like this
36:39
is another topic that's come up with in other interviews I've
36:44
done, and it's, it doesn't have to be for anyone else. No, it
36:49
just
36:50
James Hines: has to be for you. It has to be for you. Yeah, it
36:53
has to be for you. That's where the magic happens, because
36:57
you're not, you're not chasing the image. You will have a
37:00
profound experience and not capture a thing. I mean, I often
37:03
go out and capture an image. I sometimes deliberately find an
37:07
image or a situation that's so good, and I decide that that's
37:10
just for me, right? You know, I'm just like, Oh, I could
37:14
really benefit from this, but I think I'm just going to enjoy
37:18
it.
37:19
Casey Fatchett: It's, yeah, do you ever see the movie The
37:21
Secret Life of Walter Mitty? No, there's a moment like, Sean Penn
37:26
plays a photographer, and he's still shoots film. He's like,
37:34
shoot. It's supposed to be like, for the last issue of Life
37:37
magazine or something like that, that he's that he has a roll of
37:40
film, and this guy, Walter Mitty, who's a photo editor, has
37:43
to go and get it, and he tracks him down to, like, Nepal. He's
37:47
up in the mountains in Nepal, like, trying to photograph a
37:50
snow leopard, which are incredibly rare, and they're
37:54
sitting there, they're sitting there, and he sees it, and he
37:57
just looks through his lens. Yeah, he does, doesn't take the
38:01
picture.
38:02
James Hines: Yeah, I can totally, totally understand that
38:05
moment, actually. Yeah, he just that that that's exactly what
38:10
we're talking about. You know, he is a magical moment, and it's
38:17
so magical, it doesn't need taken.
38:19
Casey Fatchett: I find that it's interesting because I ask a lot
38:22
of they ask around, like, every year, who are people's favorite
38:29
fictional photographers, and the people who answer that
38:31
character, I find it's interesting why they and they
38:34
all, you know, bring that up as like that, just being present.
38:37
And you know, this is not a moment to take a picture. This
38:41
is a moment for me.
38:43
James Hines: Yeah, it's interesting as well. So art
38:47
itself is as old as humanity itself. You know, you can, you
38:53
can trace back drawings on curves and now this sort of
38:58
thing. And there's summer in that the summit in why we create
39:02
as as beings. What is it that does it? And I think it has
39:08
profound personal, well being benefits, community benefits. It
39:13
has spiritual benefits. You know, it's an endless list, and
39:18
I think it's a spiritual act. It is creating. And I think, you
39:23
know, I think we're on. We don't, we don't even begin to
39:27
understand how profound it is.
39:29
Casey Fatchett: Do you find that the act of photography enhances
39:34
your ability to recall those moments, or real or or to, like,
39:39
go back to that moment? That's something that I find that I am
39:42
able to do, one that I've allowed myself to be open to it
39:46
and I have taken that photo, or even just like the being open to
39:49
it and just experiencing the moment itself, it helps me,
39:53
yeah, go back to that and that feeling being
39:57
James Hines: there, yeah. So at the moment. And I'm
40:01
exceptionally lucky to live in the, you know, one of England's
40:05
national parks, the North York, Mars, and I am constantly going
40:13
up on their Marlins. When I first started, I was extremely
40:17
intimidated. It's vast, it's wide, it's barren in a sense.
40:22
It's wide open space that and it's very, very difficult to
40:26
show. I just wanted photos of this place because there might
40:30
be one day where I can't get up there, I can't go on this
40:33
landscape. And, well, I said it might. I will definitely be in a
40:38
position where I can't get up there one day, and I want these
40:41
photos so I can look at that and I can transport myself back to
40:47
that moment, you know. And that's really the core of what
40:50
photography is. And it's memories, you know. And if, if
40:55
you can always add memory and story and these things into your
41:01
imagery. It's another layer of it's another depth in it. It's
41:06
time travel, absolutely, yeah, in a good way, yeah, it was your
41:10
brain that talks to you all the time, trying to make your net
41:13
worry and all these kind of things. Yeah, I think that that
41:15
negative time travel,
41:17
Casey Fatchett: yes, it tries to take you to the future, worry
41:19
about what's going to happen there, or worry about some
41:21
moment that happened in the past. Happened in the past,
41:23
where, as opposed to, I think, if you're you can where, whereas
41:28
a photo can take you to that moment, and you can just live in
41:33
that moment for a moment. And you know, have that again. It's
41:38
something that I've explored personally more lately in the
41:43
last, you know, five years or so, I think when after my
41:46
parents passed away, and I'm like, going back and looking at
41:49
photos and really allowing myself to like, yeah, absolutely
41:54
get back there and be like, oh, yeah, I really remember that
41:58
moment, yeah.
41:59
James Hines: And feel even a photo of a relative that you
42:02
haven't seen for years is, is one of them moments, and you,
42:05
you know someone who you care about, and you've and you see a
42:08
photo for the first time, you know, and you it stops you in
42:12
the tracks of it, yeah, and that, that, that's how powerful
42:16
when you when, when you experience that, you realize how
42:20
powerful photography really is and how how important it is.
42:25
Casey Fatchett: I think that's also that we're we experience
42:29
the world visually, yeah, like that as human beings. And, you
42:34
know, people will ask me to explain that, and I say, Well,
42:37
my dog experiences the word world through smelling it. Yeah,
42:42
she has great eyesight, but she like her sense of smell is,
42:47
yeah, is the primary way through which she experiences the world.
42:52
For us, sight tends to be our primary sense. Always see things
43:00
and how we you know, and I think that that has because of that,
43:05
photos are so powerful for us, you know, and and can really and
43:14
can, as much as you would say, like a smell can transport you,
43:18
or a Certain you hear a song you know can transport you back to a
43:23
place and a time and or a feeling. Photos absolutely have
43:29
that ability. And it's the the thing that I've found that my
43:35
clients and the wedding side of things, people will come to me
43:41
and say, I want you to photograph my wedding, because I
43:44
look at your photos of other people, and I feel like I know
43:48
them, and I feel like I was there, yeah, like, it draws me
43:53
into that, yeah, absolutely.
43:57
James Hines: I think it's, it's an It's a huge honor to shoot
44:01
weddings. It really is, you know, the spiritual union of two
44:05
people, and you're, you're blessed with that job. Well, you
44:10
say, Blessed. It could be very difficult, but it is a blessing
44:15
to be asked to do that. And you know, you're, it's a huge
44:19
responsibility. And I think, I think, I think clients have
44:23
potential to not really understand that and take that
44:27
for granted because it is a very, very difficult job, and
44:31
any photographer of the wife realizes that.
44:34
Casey Fatchett: I think, I think so. The way, I wasn't trying to,
44:39
like, pump up wedding photographers. I was just saying
44:41
like as a as a means that like photography has a way of
44:46
connecting people who with moments that they didn't even
44:48
experience themselves, and they look at it like I recently went
44:55
to a I don't know if you're familiar with her work. Vivian
44:58
Mayer, she was a street photographer. And she had a way
45:03
of just like, photographing these street scenes and, you
45:08
know, seeing these photos from 6070, years ago, yeah, but yet I
45:16
feel like I'm there, yeah. I feel like I'm
45:18
James Hines: just the lady. Is this the lady that shot? And it
45:22
was never discovered until after she passed? Yes, yeah,
45:26
absolutely fantastic. Yeah. I've looked at her imagery, and
45:32
they're unbelievable.
45:32
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's, it's just there. There's such a and
45:36
when we talk about, yeah,
45:37
James Hines: just for hair, won't they? That was, that was
45:39
the real thing as well. Is it the same person? So there was
45:44
she was there? Was it the lady that was discovered? Her images
45:47
were discovered after she passed.
45:49
Casey Fatchett: She was technically. Technically, she
45:52
was still alive. They didn't realize. They didn't realize
45:56
who. They didn't but the thing was, she died two years after
46:01
they were discovered, but they didn't know who had taken the
46:06
photos. So they didn't they were trying to figure out who had
46:11
taken these pictures and but she was still alive. Issues. They
46:16
found them in 2007 and they started getting attention
46:20
online, and then she passed away in 2009 before they realized
46:25
who, before they were able to make the connection as to who
46:29
had taken the photos, but yeah, it's yeah, she just had 1000s
46:34
and 1000s and 1000s of negatives that were never even developed,
46:39
but like looking at it and and and being transported through
46:44
someone's lens, whether it's a landscape photo, Whether it's a
46:49
street photo, whether it's a wedding photo, and I find that
46:53
the more for me, the more connected I am with the moment.
46:58
And I don't think I realized how much I did it at weddings until
47:03
I really started exploring this concept of being present, that
47:08
the more present I was, the more likely people were who viewed
47:13
Those photos were felt that they by looking at the photos were
47:17
there, if That makes sense. Yeah. So, James, how do you
47:22
think photographers are new to this, or people who've been
47:26
doing it for a long time and don't necessarily feel as
47:31
present as they were? How can they use photography as a tool
47:35
to, sort of like, cultivate their mindfulness or presence in
47:40
the moment.
47:45
James Hines: Well, firstly, I think, I think obviously, if
47:49
that's what, if that's what you want to achieve with your
47:51
photography, it's, it's, it's profoundly important. You know,
47:55
it's profoundly beneficial, like I said. And I think, I think
47:58
it's just, I would definitely read The Power of Now to start
48:02
with, because it gives, gives you that basis of understanding
48:07
of the concepts of being present and in the moment, I think any
48:13
spiritual teachings tend to lean towards being present. So that's
48:20
where I would start. And I'm not selling the book, by the way. I
48:24
don't need, I don't think I need to for him, it's one of the best
48:28
selling spiritual thought books on on the planet, but it's so
48:35
that's where I would start. I would, I would, I would, I would
48:39
learn that book and and I would start trying to incorporate that
48:45
within your photography. So as you're moving into scenes and
48:49
stuff being present within it, it's definitely the way to go.
48:53
And if you don't, it doesn't matter. But if you can just
48:56
steal little glimpses of present, of the present moment
48:59
in in your photography, I think you're winning.
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52:05
Hey, now for my favorite part of the show, what's that? Say?
52:13
Useless information. This is always death.
52:18
James, did you know that Joseph Stalin was editing photos long
52:26
before computers existed.
52:29
James Hines: I didn't know that
52:31
Casey Fatchett: when Stalin would have a member of his inner
52:35
circle eliminated, he would have them erased from all
52:40
photographic evidence, they would go in and airbrush out the
52:45
person like from the negative. There are numerous examples of
52:50
photographs containing Stalin alongside multiple advisors, who
52:56
would slowly dwindle down one by one as time went on,
53:01
James Hines: wow, yeah, the A definitely needed a subscription
53:06
to Lightroom or something.
53:08
Casey Fatchett: He would love the AI removed, yeah,
53:14
James Hines: he would be looking for that in life, I think, yeah,
53:17
yeah.
53:18
Casey Fatchett: I mean, I mean, technically, he did remove them
53:21
in real life.
53:22
James Hines: Yeah, it had been a lot easier with AI though, I
53:25
think I mean things done. Do you think there would have, I won't
53:29
go political, I'll stem this back towards photography. But
53:36
yeah,
53:37
Casey Fatchett: I just, I just think of the amount of effort
53:39
that that would take to back then, just like, keep taking
53:45
people out of the same photo, it just takes a that's, that's a
53:52
lot, a lot of effort.
53:54
James Hines: I'm very fortunate. I didn't live it well. Say very
53:56
fortunate. Could be seen as very unfortunate, but I didn't live
54:00
in I've never experienced film, photography and technology's
54:05
been at my fingertips throughout my life.
54:08
Casey Fatchett: So, oh, it's, I mean, I started shooting when I
54:13
started taking pictures, and as a teenager, I was using film,
54:17
but I had no idea how to do any of that, and I learned a little
54:22
bit about developing in college, but not a whole lot. I'm just
54:26
not. I'm not. I understand what my skill sets are, and that's
54:31
not one of them, but I have a immense appreciation for I mean,
54:37
people go like, Oh, well, you know, this is Ansel Adams didn't
54:41
retouch. Yes, he did absolutely. Like, you look at the he would
54:45
take those, like, he'd take a proof of whatever photo, and
54:49
you'd see him, like, mark it all up. Like, oh, I need to burn
54:51
this area a little bit. I need to bring up the, you know,
54:54
highlights over here and, like, in, like, going through it. And
54:57
then he'd go back and, you know, get it in the dark room. And
55:00
print and then do all of those things to it. It wasn't that's
55:03
crazy, yeah, which is a lot of work, but, you know, they did
55:07
it. And I think that there's, there's also some sort of,
55:13
there's a tendency to diminish the amount of after the photo
55:21
work that some people did and there, and it doesn't make it
55:25
less of a work of art. And in fact, I think it's very It's
55:29
incredible, like how but there, there are a lot of people who
55:31
did a lot of work in retouching has been around since, you know,
55:36
the beginning of photography, absolutely. And you know, double
55:40
exposures and things like the spirit photography. We did a
55:43
whole episode on that, right? Nice, yeah, how people would
55:47
take negatively. These guy would use other negatives to, like,
55:51
create spirit photos and like, like, by putting them on top of
55:55
other images. Crazy. But, yeah, it's been around for a long
55:59
time. Yeah, James,
56:01
James Hines: what's your I was going to ask, So, what's your
56:06
favorite editing software nowadays? Do you have a
56:09
particular one?
56:10
Casey Fatchett: Oh, I mean, I still use Photoshop and
56:15
Lightroom. There's, yeah, a lot of things. A lot of talk about,
56:19
you know, Adobe's practices right now. And, yeah, I
56:23
consider, you know, what are the I have to explore other options
56:27
anyway. I do reviews of different softwares and things
56:32
like that.
56:33
James Hines: I reluctantly use lightrooms. I did. I did have a
56:37
bit of a spat with Lightroom. I found they were taking money,
56:43
you know, without it just, just a really strange thing. So I had
56:49
a bit of a rant about it. I ended up getting rid of the
56:52
video because I thought it didn't look so good, but, but
56:55
reluctantly, I'm lightrooms, but, yeah, pretty good as well.
56:59
There.
56:59
Casey Fatchett: I had some issues with billing, like, 10
57:03
years ago, and since then, have that. Haven't had any thing
57:06
because I brought it up to them, and they solved the problem. But
57:10
when you hear like, how many people have had issues, it seems
57:15
like it's a pretty common bug for people, yeah, there's a lot
57:22
of things I wish they would do differently. But for right now,
57:25
for me, it's still, that's still the product I use. Nice James,
57:31
thanks so much for being on the absolutely welcome to come back.
57:36
James Hines: Yeah, we'd love to, I think, I think that's it's a
57:42
win for photographers, because a Canon shooter and a nick on
57:45
shooter had a good conversation. Had you once?
57:50
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I mean, my my longest I know my longest
57:54
photographer friend. We've known each other for long. It's like
58:00
26 years, and he shoots Nikon, and we are constantly, like,
58:06
sending texts,
58:07
James Hines: having a bit of Banner, yeah, I'll put a rail up
58:11
on Instagram. Also, I took that down quite quickly, because I
58:17
was, I was, was hemorrhaging followers quite rapidly
58:23
Casey Fatchett: when it's good nature.
58:25
James Hines: Yeah, just try and try and have a little bit of
58:29
Casey Fatchett: a joke. There's real there's one thing Canon and
58:31
Nikon people can always agree on. It's that we don't like Sony
58:34
shooters.
58:35
James Hines: Yeah, I've just got a Sony as well. So but
58:40
Casey Fatchett: yeah, no, yeah, whatever people want to, like,
58:43
use, yeah, that's it, whatever works for
58:45
James Hines: them all in the day, but all in the name of
58:47
bummer. That's what I said. All In Good. Just in it
58:51
Casey Fatchett: get so many people who are like, Well, what
58:52
about Fuji? I'm like, You're missing the point of the joke.
58:58
It's like saying, What about Yeah, it's like saying, what
59:01
James Hines: about my friends are Fujifilm shooter, bless him,
59:04
and yeah, I am literally joking. By the way, if anyone is
59:11
listening, I just, I like to have a little bit of a tug
59:14
Casey Fatchett: in cheek. Well, it's like, you can't if you're
59:17
telling a joke, and this is all this has been, is you're just,
59:19
you're joking with somebody like you can't mention every single
59:24
type of just random camera and then the like of people. Yeah,
59:30
so, James, where can people find you on the internet? Where can
59:34
they find you? What's your
59:36
James Hines: So, Instagram is where I most and most active
59:42
James Hines photo and the same handle on YouTube. YouTube's
59:48
sort of an up and coming thing that I'm sort of working out as
59:52
I go. But yeah, I'm gonna thank you very much for having me on
59:56
as well, and thanks for for taking the time anybody who's
59:59
listened, it's. It's great to have got to have a little chat
1:00:02
for a while.
1:00:03
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, this is a lot of fun. I'm going to include
1:00:05
those links in the Episode Notes so that people can find them.
1:00:08
And, yeah, if you think of anything else you want to talk
1:00:11
about, just shoot me a message. We'll have you back
1:00:14
James Hines: Yeah, grand. Thank you very much.
1:00:25
Casey Fatchett: and welcome back. Many thanks to James Hines
1:00:29
for being on the show. Be sure to check out his links in the
1:00:32
Episode Notes. Go follow James. His photography is great while
1:00:35
you're at it. You can also follow along with the nerdy
1:00:37
photographer on the various social media platforms,
1:00:41
Instagram, Tiktok threads, Reddit, at the nerdy photo, all
1:00:46
one word, no underscores, dots or dashes. At the nerdy photo.
1:00:51
Tell us what you think about this or any other episode of the
1:00:54
show that you've listened to. Leave your photography related
1:00:57
questions or tell us what topics you'd like to hear about in the
1:01:00
future. Make sure to subscribe to the podcast, if you haven't
1:01:03
already, and leave us a review. They're really, super, super
1:01:07
helpful. And you know what? Reading that really centered me
1:01:11
in this moment?
1:01:19
F 2.0 what? F 2.0 Yeah. F 2.0 sorry, until next time,
1:01:31
everybody, stay safe and stay nerdy. You.
1:01:45
Unknown: Who's your heart been beating about you better. Get
1:01:51
better. Get better. Get better. Listen, you.