Latest / Off the Clock, On the Rocks with Abby and Kate / Episode 5: Breaking Up with Your Friends | Off the Clock, On the Rocks

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Episode 5: Breaking Up with Your Friends | Off the Clock, On the Rocks · Off the Clock, On the Rocks with Abby and Kate

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Off the Clock on the Rocks, where work ends and real life begins.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Today, what are we drinking on the rocks?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Mine's not on the rocks.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, we have some.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Cayman Jack.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Cayman Jack margarita, strawberry margarita.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have the Salon Banc.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Sauvignon Bon.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going back to my OG rag.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's the thing I've been drinking for the last few weeks.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you for being here.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: And grab a drink and get cozy and let's jump into today's topic.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're talking about breaking up with your friends.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, let's drink on that one.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever had a friend breakup?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Not like an official one.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: I have had one.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's start there.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so me and my best friend, Patty.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Patty, if you're watching.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been friends with her since I was like in college, early college.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's almost 20 years.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we had another friend that we met because he she was dating my cousin for a while.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um, she was kind of a mess a little bit, but like that was kind of what was fun about her, and she was like great to go on vacations with, and she was kind of crazy and all that.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, except she started kind of like diving into things that we didn't necessarily feel like were appropriate.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, as her friends, which is the point of having friends, in my opinion, is that they're honest with you.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: She was um making some decisions we didn't necessarily agree with, so we were vocal with those things.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she ended up being unhappy about the things that we felt and didn't appreciate the honesty, which I appreciate honesty, so I would like you to tell me the truth, like whatever, but she did not appreciate the honesty.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And one day in the middle of COVID, I was working from home, I was like tip-typing away.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um, she calls me and tells me that she no longer wants to be my friend, and it's because of whatever way she explained the fact that we had too many opinions about what she was doing with her life.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think she had a lot of these other like superfluous surface friends that would just like encourage her to do dumb shit, and we weren't those people.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then she told me, you can also tell Patty I'm done with her.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so she broke up with both of us through me.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, and so I had to call Patty and tell her what'd Patty say.
• 2:30
  unknown: Eh.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: She and I had like a big falling out at one point and had to come back together.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, like to her, she was like, it really bugged me when you and me weren't close.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: But this one I was just kind of like, whatever.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And she was able to move on fast from it.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think I had a harder time because like I had done so much for her because she was my cousin's girlfriend that to me it was like, well, ex-girlfriend, but anyway, um, I had done so much for her and almost at the expense of my relationship with my cousin that like it really did bug me, you know.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I see.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: I could see that.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think for myself, I I guess I broke up with the friend.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but this was a very weird um scenario or situation.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: But long story short, uh, long story short, there was a my husband's cousin, he had a girlfriend at the time.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: She the him and her were going through a rough patch um to the point where she wanted to get with my husband.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um her friend, her friend, um, she was super nice.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the coolest people.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Her and I got along really well.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so this was like a like a mutual friend that she had brought in that I kind of met through her.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: That you liked better than you liked her.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we had a lot in common, but um, when everything happened and like there was a lot of obviously I'm not gonna be friends with somebody who wants to be with my husband who was also dating his cousin, like there was a whole thing going on.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she reached out to me and said, Hey, like I get that this is going on with this person, but I would still like to have a friendship with you.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the girl that you liked, not the girl that wanted your dude.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: She reached out and she said, I would I would still like to be your friend.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, you know, I'm really sorry.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know that she's your friend, and you know, I value my marriage and my relationship, and I just can't do that to myself because I know whatever we talk about, you could potentially talk to her about.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I just wish you all the best.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I I didn't look back, I I didn't feel bad about it.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I was gonna be my question is you didn't feel bad at all.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think when it comes to like those friendships, sometimes intentions can get blurred, just like her friend had other intentions.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's been my experience with like an actual friend.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: You weren't broken up with, and I got broken up with, which was so weird, too.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's so odd.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, how did you find out she wanted your man?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like oh, she told me outrightly self?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: What did she say?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and this is teen.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: She um called me, she said that my man was coming on to her, and this and that, which wasn't true.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, true.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: I know Josh would be.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: She was trying to be a little bit spiteful.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: She's probably trying to like maybe I don't know what she was trying to do, what her intent was.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but his cousin was also like, please don't listen to her.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is something like it was just not, it was a very toxic break.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't about you, really, it was about them.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, okay.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because she ended up trying to get back with him, but ultimately she ended up together with Josh's witch friend, with best friend, which was a mutual friend of theirs.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot happened in that little bit of time.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: She ended up with another one of the friends.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So she was just taking a little homie.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: You heard that's so funny.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I I wish them well.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't keep up with them.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what happened to them.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: I just I did good.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: But you just like pew pew pretty much.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what more can you do?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean, that's very fair.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm a I I think it takes me a lot to like realize that people probably aren't the best for me.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we've talked a little bit about this.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's hard for me to like let go when I feel like something's kind of getting distanced.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: You definitely know what I mean because I've told you, but I but let's let's make a point of this because you and I are very different when it comes to friends.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Kate has a multitude of friends.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't feel like I have that many.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I think you do.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: I have like handful, like maybe less than five.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I am very selective with my friends, and I think that is why I have a much easier time distancing myself, where you have a lot of like a and even if it's not like close, close friends, like you know a lot of people.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I do know a lot of people.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you just kind of you keep it pushing until maybe there's something big that happens that impacts you, and then that's when you'll be like, Oh, I guess that wasn't nice.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or like you start to see that distance forming in a relationship, and then you're like, Well, what's happening?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then I get in my head a lot about that too.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know, I wouldn't necessarily feel like I have I mean, I do have a good large group of people, but I still think I'm kind of picky about those ones.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you not think so?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: You don't think so.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you mean?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like in what sense?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, because I have friends that I've gotten through work, right?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: And those ones I'm very close with.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Some something about uh hello, and Patty, what up?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I met her working at a bar long ago.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So wow.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I have the friends that I met through other friends, right?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Which is kind of like a good bunch of the the mom's night crew.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I have friends I've met through my daughter's friends who are like the moms of my daughter's friends.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: So um I don't think all of those have stuck around because there haven't, oh, I do have another one that I I didn't necessarily break up with her, but I just kind of was like, it just didn't feel right, you know, like we didn't connect, and there's some weird things happening between her daughter and my daughter, and just the way that it worked wasn't great, and I just didn't feel right about it, so I just kind of very much distance myself from that one.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but I don't think I think you're right in that I don't do that all the time, but or easily.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't consider my daughter's friends' moms my friends.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I wouldn't all the time, but like there are some good ones, you know, like those good little nuggets that you take home with you, you know?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Where it's like more like we're friends now versus our kids are friends, which because I think you and I start out friends now, our kids are friends.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, which is great, but I think we're still the stronger duo in the I think it just takes a lot more for me to call you a friend.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: What made you call me a friend then?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it was very weird because we couldn't be friends.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we were forced not to be.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we couldn't be friends because of work, and we both I think did a we we respected that to the point where we made sure that it was not impacting work, but I think professional we got so good at our job that our like one-on-one time was like fucking around and just shooting the shit a little bit.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: We talked a lot of shit during those things, yes, and talked more about like what was going on in our lives and what had come up and like that kind of stuff.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I could see that.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think the moment that I got promoted and we could be friends, that's when it was just immediately yes, like it was just like, oh, okay, but we had kind of already built that.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um but that was the first time we ever really hung out outside of work that wasn't work-related.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because the minute you got promoted, I was like, all right, here are all the things you're invited to.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: That and I do so in that case, I do have like social engagements that are always kind of I'm planning.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: I have like three I'm working on right now that are coming up.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like the one for October, the one for November.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: November one's gonna be fun.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: But so I do do that.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so when it comes to a friend breakup, what would kind of be outside of her wanting to get with your man?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, remember, it wasn't her, it was her other friend.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right, that's true.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, also I know that Josh wouldn't have said what he she said he said, um, because he's great, but also have you ever seen like that women want to get with a dude that's like solid and has shown reliability and has somebody for a long time because they're like, Oh, he's already proven it, like that's what I want.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, so I'm gonna try to weasel my way in there.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have seen that, and I do think it's true that they're looking committed, secure man in a very healthy relationship, attract more, seem to be way hotter, and I agree that because I do think my husband's hot, but you know.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm not gonna say that about your husband because it's weird, but I'm glad you feel that way.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that I think my man's hot, but also I get it.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: There was one time, see, this is I'm gonna go back to the story of somebody that I wouldn't consider a friend, but we spent a lot of time together because of our kids.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like this one.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she started making comments about my relationship and about my physique and my looks and my body, and it got very weird very quick.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And almost like alluding to more intimate relationships with you and her and other people.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it was my very first time experiencing something like that, and mind you, I had probably I had known her child for a really long time because they're in the same school, but I did not know her on that level for very long, probably like maybe three months.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And within those three months, she like poured out her heart to me.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: She was telling me all these things that were going on in her life, she was telling me how I was so great and how she wishes like her marriage was like me and Josh, and this and that.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, those were all red flags.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, also, you don't like it when people get too close too fast.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, no, immediately you want to run away from that, and I think that that probably was outside of the weirdness of the conversation.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, I think that's probably why you fled that.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: That was a very weird story.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I remember you telling me, and I was like, ooh, yeah, bye, bye, weird lady.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're watching this, I wish you the best, but thank you, no, thank you.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you, no, thank you.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're a weirdo.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so let's slightly pivot away.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: What would make outside of you know, these one-off things, do you think it's all one-off things that would make you break up with a friend or have someone break up with you?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think in my case, mine was more like I was being too honest with this person, which is one of my characteristics and something I value is honesty.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I always want to hear that, right?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I would rather have an honest conversation than not, but I think this that person didn't want the honesty.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted to be like enabled, you know, and allowed to make bad decisions and like and from a bad decision standpoint, it was like just get wasted everywhere, lose your purse places, have to get carried out of places.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was every time we were on vacation or we were doing something, she was like absolutely tossed shitfaced, and she'd always be like, Oh, I think I know you, like trying to find obviously you don't know anybody, we're in a different state, and she's trying to find like somebody that she knows.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was just always so messy, like at Patty's Bachelorette party, she ended up getting shitfaced at a paint and wine thing, and it was like at 6:30 at night, and she had to sit in the hallway, and I gave her water, and she ended up pretending she was a fountain and just all over the hallway.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was unbelievable.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: We have pictures of her passed out at dinner after that, and we're just like, hey, having a nice time.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was very weird, but it was like that's the kind of stuff I was saying.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, these are things that are like worrisome to us, right?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: As your friends, right, that she didn't like, right?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I could see that I'm too honest and I'm care too much, you know.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's one of those things.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I think I care too much.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I I appreciate the honesty, but I think we're kind of alike in that sense.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we just you know shoot straight.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, tell us what it is, and then we'll kind of move forward.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get it fucking together.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with you.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what else would make you like want to break up with a friend, like outside of that?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because both of us have an issue with a mom being weird with our kid or their kid being weird with our kid.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what do I have an issue with, or what are some of the things that I have?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me, it's I'm I'm very observant.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if I start seeing things that don't align with my values, that's where I will draw the line.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: But outside outside of that one situation, I think something that comes to mind.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if how can I say this without somebody who might be listening know that it's them because they don't know I've broken up with them.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, a secret breakup.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about those two.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I ghost.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: I ghost.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: You do, I ghost, I ghost.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: I will not tell you.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you will you ever ghost me?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Promise?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I promise.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: I pinky promise.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think your yours.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: I this is again, I have a very small select group of friends that I would consider my friends, you being one of them.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I probably have another friend, but she lives in a different state.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: However, the person that I'm talking about that I ghosted, there was for a really long time certain things that we didn't align on, or like we just have different perspectives.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm very much a person that's open to everybody having their own opinion.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even in our mom group, right, there's different walks of life, so it just makes sense for people to have a different perspective.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think where I find it very challenging is when you think only your opinion is correct, that regardless of what I say, you will always think that whatever it is that you think is is 100% the sole truth, it's hard.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And in the beginning, I think you let it slide, and then it happens again, and then it happens again, and then it happens again, and then it comes to a point where it's like it's exhausting being around you.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm just not gonna bring anything up.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a feeling too, and yeah, and it's like, you're right, you know what?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: You you think the grass is purple, you're right.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: You carry you're right, and it's just like, why waste my time and energy?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's one of those things where in a friendship, there's like certain characteristics or qualities or willingness to um meet in the middle that are super important, and I think like I I mean, I talk about my friend Patty.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Patty and I are like it could be weeks that we haven't talked to each other, and then we come back together and it's just fine.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: But there's certain things where it's like it's always mutually beneficial, it's always an equal meeting in the middle.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Your cactus friend is somebody that you don't have to constantly water.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: When you guys come together, it's like time didn't pass by.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel watered after those.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like we walk away and we just like, oh my god, we both needed that so much.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that like, I think you're like this too.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas, like, if we go to a restaurant and we eat and we drink and we have a nice time, it's never like I'm gonna penny pinch this.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be like let's half it in the middle.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's always like a mutual understanding of like we're here to spend time together.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not gonna go and like order something that's$300 and then you have a salad and I'm like, pay for mine.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that there's just like a mutual understanding of that, right?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: You meet in the middle and there's a mutual benefit benefit.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: But to your point of the earlier thing, you almost always have to be like open-minded enough to admit that like maybe your idea is not the right one.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Be willing to have an honest conversation, and I think be willing to have your mind changed.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you're not open, and I think that's just in life, but I think especially with friendship when you're having those types of conversations, exhausting is the best way to describe it.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: But you don't want to have somebody that you have to always convince of something.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, ugh, you know.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, side note about the mom's night, we had 11 people last time.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: When Hayden came home, he was like, there were three different conversations happening at the top of their lungs.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's like the whole time.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, I had to walk away from that.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: But we were fine in that because everybody's having their own little thing, which I thought was kind of funny.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that he was like, it's a little crazy.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it was only 11 of us only.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, but she thinks it's a small group.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of small.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I think that's that's a that's a really good group of friends.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So let me ask you this question, then, since we have different points of views in terms of let's just say out of out of your friends, right?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: How many bridesmaids do you think would make?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've thought of this, right?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so obviously been married before.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, it would be like dependent on his side and how many he didn't pick.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, like that, he has he has four brothers, and then he has like two really good close friends amongst other people.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because he has a big circle of people that he uh values as well.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: So at minimum, I think it'd be six.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I was thinking about, and I'm like, I don't think I could pick six people.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't anymore.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because in previous I mean, again, I've been married twice before, both fails, both failures.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Number three is always the winner, apparently.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I've had I've had large bar bridal parties, and Patty has been in both, and she's the only one.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: She's the only one that's been in both.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: She's my maid of honor in both.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um, she's always been there, but the rest kind of like fall fall out, right?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So there's like some sisters of the groom that weren't there that obviously aren't gonna hang around, right?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: There was a girl that broke up with us who also was yelling at my brother-in-law during the ceremony, like because she was loaded again.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it was, you know, those types of things.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: So looking at this one, I would probably say, I would say Patty.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: I would say Oh, you don't have to name them.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I would just say No, I'm trying to think figure it out.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Patty, I would say my daughter Abby, because she's old enough.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: I would probably put you there if you wanted to.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to say yes now.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would think, I would have to come up with six, though.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think I could probably pick six.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, they'd all want to be.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't can we not do bridesmaids.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you could, but I'm just saying, like, what makes a cut?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just kidding, you know, but there's a lot of people that I would consider my friends that have been there through through like thick and thin with me, or always checking in.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like Amanda would be one of those people.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'd probably pick Amanda too.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like that.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: She's she's delightful.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: But a friend I met because our daughters were friends, and then we were like, we don't care that you're friends.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're friends, yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: She's great.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: She's fucking awesome.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all right.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess let's let's pivot a little bit.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have bridesmaids?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I eloped.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: See, that I would like that.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was really nice.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: We eloped, we had a fun time, we got married, and this year we will be celebrating 10 years together.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, congratulations.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Choose to that.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: 10 years with Doug.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Delightful Josh who edits all of our videos.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Josh.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love you.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: We do and gives me really good feedback.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: But to pivot a little bit, okay.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I was gonna pivot, but then I don't remember what I was gonna say.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think we're at the okay, so we're talking about friend breakups.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: What makes like a person that you would want to keep as a friend?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are those types of qualities, you know?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Not specific about people, you know.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think pe us okay, so when I think about oh, it's because I'm so selective, everybody's stuck through.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, that's a good point though, is that you have resilience in their people that are with you, and that they're willing to be persist through the good and the bad.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a very big quality, right?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're not just there for the good times, not just there for the bad times, they're persistently present.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is gonna sound a little bit weird, but I received this advice very, very, very early on, probably before I even met you, when I first started working.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: And as you're gonna notice, a lot of my life lessons turn come from work.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember I had somebody that said, be the leader that you want to be.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that stuck with me because I also be the leader that you want to have.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, be the leader that you want to have.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that that really stuck with me because I am the friend that I would like to have.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you are good friends.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I and I while I am very selective, I will always prioritize people who will put my needs above theirs in my time I need.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's something that's very important to me.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: And because I am very a very intimate person and only like only certain people will really know when I'm having a hardship, I would expect you to be there, but I will do the same in return.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you are going through something, that's true, I will make sure that I show up in any way that I would want somebody to show up for me in any and I I try to pick up on on cues.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you're like, oh my gosh, I hate cooking, I'll probably bring you some food.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you're like, oh my gosh, I I don't even have time to clean my house, I would probably go clean your house.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't mind any of those things, I don't judge anybody because we've all been through life.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that is the number one thing that has allowed me to maintain the friendships that I have, and regardless of how much time passes, if we're able to come back and connect, then I'm okay with that.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think those are such valuable things, and those all of those things you've done for me for sure.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Been true though.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: You were present, you were always available, you also said you would clean my house if I wanted you to.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: I like to clean.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: She really does.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And her house, again, spotless, you've probably heard this before, very clean.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: But um the I think the other piece of that is like willing to put your needs above uh their needs above your own.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, um, when Abby's dad died, you were there every single day, if not a phone call or text message or a voice note or a prayer or all every single day you were there for probably weeks.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: I can't even remember how long.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was weeks, and it was just something I could count on every single day that I didn't have to ask for, and that always meant a lot to me because I got that was a hard time, but at the same point I was able to get through it because of that type of presence, you know.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Can I tell you why I'm like that?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, are you gonna get emotional?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think a little bit.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm a crier.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: You are a crier.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that people will always show up when shit hits the fan just to know what you're going through.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, to see that that has been my experience.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, but nobody stays to pick up the shit.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that's when you're probably when you need that pick me up, it will always be the aftermath.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I had a friend, we were in middle school, he had a really bad car accident one time.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: He was driving back from the movies and he didn't have his seatbelt.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, he lost a part of his school because he got in a car accident because two people were racing on the freeway, and as they were getting on the ramp, um, horrible, horrible car accident.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: He survived it.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: He obviously relies on his parents now.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And when we were at the hospital, everybody was there.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: All our middle school friends were there, everybody showed up.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody and their moms, and we were doing prayer groups, and I think that's very beautiful.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: But 30 days in, 60 days in, when he was still in the hospital, nobody showed up.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember my mom used to take me because he would only eat when I would show up.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I would go every night and I would talk to him, and then he would get his meals.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's crazy.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it sometimes people are just there to know what happened to you, but they're not there with the intention of helping you, not for the long run.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that can be very lonely if you don't have the right support system around.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I do that because I knew that it you were gonna have a multitude of people that were gonna surround you because unfortunately it was very unexpected.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the follow-up after that, it's probably when you do need the most help and people are probably not there or or don't offer or extend because you're not gonna reach out and ask for help when you're vulnerable.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: I also don't ask for help anyway, so let alone at a time like that.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: So so that is why I try to go above and beyond in those circumstances until I feel like okay, you're good.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: You can stand with the yes.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which I think is exactly what you did.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you remind me of a friend of mine who is probably one of the people I would consider in the bridesmaid list, too, by the way.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: But her husband passed away completely unexpectedly, heart attack while he was running, horrible.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: They had the most beautiful relationship, the perfect, perfect couple.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're just like, oh my god, like couldn't have happened to two better people, right?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And she said once um Abby's dad died, she told me she was like, This is what's gonna happen is the first, you know, two or three weeks, people are gonna be there, and then they're gonna start falling off.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then the people that really care are gonna be there the whole time.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: And she had even mentioned to me, because one of the things that I did for her is uh because she she relied on him a lot for like cooking and he did a just so much good things for her that I just cooked for her once a week for like months, you know, and we have dinner at my house where I'd bring her dinner if she didn't want to go anywhere, I would do that for her, and it was just my way of like a little bit extra, you know.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And she she mentioned she's the one that explained to me what was gonna happen, and that's exactly what happened, and she was totally right.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um, the people that were were meant to be and were dedicated were the ones that were there without me asking, you know, and I and it's very hard for me to ask for help.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: So having being able to rely on those people and they just being there was so important, and you're you're totally right in that like that time frame, is they're there to watch the mess, not to help clean it up.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that's probably another key factor of who's your friend and who's not your friend when you really are in those tough moments or those tough situations, it's very telling um who will show up in the beginning and then who stays through the rest of it and and helps you through that.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that has been my experience, but I'm very much it takes a lot for you to be considered my friend in in my eyes.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of why I'm very selective.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, because you give a lot, yeah, yeah, and I think that's important.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and it's something I value about you a whole lot because I've I know no matter what happens, I'll be able to like lean on you a little bit, and you'll give me but you'll give me the uh the true answer.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is really what's going on.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the conversation we had the other day, and then we were talking about something that I've been like dwelling on and like over, but you think so much deeper than I do, and I'm like, I try not to get into that muck because it's overwhelming to me.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you were like saying something, and I remember being like, what are you saying to me?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like very clearly, like just give me a note, you know what it is, like just rip the band-aid off, and you're like, I don't know what it is, but this is what I feel called to say, right?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's so important too because you're speaking from from your heart, but it's it's constant until I figure it out.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I'm getting closer to figuring that one out.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not 100% there, but I'm getting there, you know?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I I I have um recently, it was because of a video you sent me, but you you sent me this video about how in times of change and in times of growth, God prunes your life and he prunes what's around you.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: And he's and the reason it's pruned, and just like a tree or a vegetable bush that you're growing or whatever, is allowing it to grow and be more fruitful.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you prune it so that it can be more fruitful.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: In those times of being pruned, it feels very painful.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like it feels like you're losing something.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure the plant feels I don't know, I've never talked to a tree or whatever, but I think it would be like a tree.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be, I bet you that there is a moment of like feeling like they're losing something.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm in this spot where things have just started to fall away because my life is changing.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: People have fallen away, things have fallen away, and relationships that I once valued heavily are not present anymore.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it left me with a lot of questions.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't, it was more of like this whole ghosting thing.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it's like a if I if I text or reached out to the person, I'm sure that they would respond to me.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: But it's by my initiation, not by theirs.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I spent a lot of time thinking about like what is it that I'm like, why is this happening, right?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that your your words were true and that video was true, and that my life was changing, and some people are there for the long run, and some people are there for a season or a reason.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in this case, what it really was, and I think truly looking back on the entire situation, what what what it was was that they were there for the mess.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted to see me low, they wanted to see me fall, they wanted to see the problem, but when things started to pick up or change a little bit and there wasn't so much disaster, they weren't interested in that.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like it was more of like I want to see the mess.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense, but it it does make sense, but I think that sense of behavior that you're talking about almost brings to me like like jealousy.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would you not be happy that somebody's doing better if you only want to be there when they're at their lowest, right?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like that I think it's way to make yourself feel better as well, right?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have um a guy that got laid off at the same time that we did and has posted all this stuff and he's really working on like creating his own like social brand and and you know focused on his family and his faith, which is great, but he makes all these videos or has posted all these videos about how you're the people that are closest to you and you start doing something different aren't the ones cheering you on.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like strangers or people that don't know you as well.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you feel about that?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: You think that's what you've seen or because you do a lot of social stuff too.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do um I don't surround my people who who don't support me.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I I I don't think I have that experience.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think everybody that I that I've talked to or that I considered like a close friend of mine um are very supportive.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: I get really good feedback or they're they keep up with my stuff and they're like, oh my gosh, like that's cool.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and I do the same in return.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I I haven't had that.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I can understand in some situations where sometimes people who are not your friends or family um tend to do more, but I I think it I don't know.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have an answer for that one.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I mean I just think it's an interesting concept too, because it's like as you start doing something against the norm or against what's expected of you, are the people that are there for you the ones that are always in your corner?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or are those is that an indicator of the people that aren't really an indicator that you outgrew them?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe because of it.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or there is jealousy, or there is some or lack of understanding, maybe so it I always I always think this way.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you evolved in one way or another where somebody kind of lacks that and they're jealous, that means you outgrew that person.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing wrong with that, right?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I but I do also think that there should be like a like a commonality of like true support, I guess.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't it comes back to that mutual understanding and benefit, right?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is that you're there for the good, you're be there for the bad, you're there for all of it.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I I just don't think there's there that that many of those people in everybody's lives.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think yeah, I agree.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't have that problem.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you also have a very small circle.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Very small makes sense.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Makes me think about like all of that, you know?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: What does it make you think of?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think it may I think it makes me think of like because I've been building my business since we got laid off, and I think it's something that's different for me, right?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been the one that had this like very standard job that that the title alone or the monetary value of that always kind of carried a different thing.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that um not that I know what all my friends do for a living because I really don't, but I think that that part was always something that people kind of like kept as part of me too, you know?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then now that I'm doing something a little bit different, completely different, actually, and I and I am posting on socials and I'm trying to like, I think what I'm trying to do is share with people the learnings and the lessons that I've had over the career that I've had to help them improve either their life, their leadership, their career, just their thought process in general.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I have not seen the same level of engagement and response from people that I would assume would support me in that manner.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, you know what I mean?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: How does that feel?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it either feels like they're not looking at it or they don't care, you know.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, um, I would say Hayden's family has been incredibly supportive.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like his mom reposts all my stuff, his grandmas watch it all and they tell me all about it.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, his aunt has given me really good feedback and it's it feels really good, right?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Patty has been very engaged, she likes it all, she watches it all.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: I asked her one time, I was like, you don't have to watch it all.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I watch every single one and I watch it all the way through, which is which means a lot to me, right?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: But there's other people that I would consider close to me that have never even mentioned it.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so then you're wondering, what does that mean?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is it like you don't care, or is it just not I don't know, to just like leave questions in my head.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's where that question came from.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because the guy that we got laid off with, he makes these posts, and you're like, I mean, I didn't really think about it.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so those things kind of made me start, I guess so follow-up question, sure, right?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is a really big change in your life.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yes.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just hypothetically speaking, pick one person that comes to mind that you anticipated them to be supportive, or at least bring it up in conversation of how this is doing, but they didn't, yeah, right?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: When you do talk to them, what is the conversation about?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is it about them?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: So then that there's probably your answer.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that's also the person I was referring to that I thought was a lot closer to me that we've ended up and I'm just kind of waiting, you know, like I'm not gonna, I don't want to chase something that I don't feel like wants to be there.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's not and I only say this because actions speak louder than words.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: So when you when you think about that and you look back as to like when we do connect and when we do talk about, because I'm assuming there is some time that you you s that you spend apart from this person, then if they want to talk about themselves and not bring you into the conversation when you're going through such a big change in in your life, then that's pretty telling of where their priorities are priorities are at.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: And not that you always have to be one, but I think in a friendship it goes both ways.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: I agree, I totally agree with you, and I think that makes sense too, because there's been a lot of people who have like either in engaged me as a um as one of my clients, who have encouraged me, referred me to somebody, family, friends, like given me feedback.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much of that that's happened, um, which has been really great, but it's like a few of these people that you thought would be there that aren't really, you know.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's one of those things where it's like you don't want to fight for something that maybe never was there, or maybe was just a season.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think it could be seasonal.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because they I still wish them the best.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want the best for all these people.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not all there's not that many of them, but like a few of these people, right?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: That and I want the best for them, but I just maybe we're at different places, yeah.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I definitely do think that people come in and can come back in your life at different at different seasons of your life.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll share one example.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's one friend that comes to mind, she was my um water the plant everyday type of friend, and then became a cactus friend.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I love her, and again, a quality that I respect a lot is her being honest.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember there was a time in my relationship where we were, you know, we were going through a lot, and she sat me down and she said, What do you want?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Uh, I don't know.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like from her or from life?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want in your marriage?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and then she's like, You sit down and we talk about this every day, and you bring me these concerns.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: She goes, but you don't do anything about it.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, I've been married a couple times.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what I think you're doing wrong, and I don't want to focus about your husband, but what do you want?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: And having people like that is it's very, very hard to find somebody like that.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: So they're very few and far between that would like actively challenge your thought process.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: And like there's one it comes to mind of like, I'm gonna challenge you when your goals and ambitions that you've set out for yourself do not match the actions and behaviors I see.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Which is what I think caused the friend of ours, mine and Patty's, to break up with us is that those you want one thing, you're doing something else, like that's what a friend's there for is to like, what are you doing?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: And also I was I respect that a lot because I'd want somebody to tell me, you know, like this just doesn't make sense.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Or what are you spending your time doing?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I think through her, it it was it it made me pause and reflect.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where if you watch um one of the episodes I share that um having respect for your partner is really important, and sometimes you don't see that within your discussions or the way you talk about things, or even your point of view within an issue, like within your marriage, can be very disrespectful.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it could cause more, it could cause more distance to happen between you instead of coming together acknowledging, hey, there is a problem, how do we come together and fix it?
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: And through her, I was able to learn that, and now she's going through some other things in her marriage, absolutely not related to their relationship, but she has reached out a couple of times and she's like, Hey, how do I do this?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: How do I go about that?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it just always feels nice to be able to give back.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um like what she gave.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I love that so much.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that's such a beautiful thing, and I I feel like when I I think about my my my friendship with Patty and the the we did have a huge falling out, like a breakup that happened, and it was it was probably lasted a year, maybe a a little bit over a year, and it's like our lives completely went separate.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought about her every single day, and I like toiled over like what happened, like where did it go wrong?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it took a huge life change on my part for me to just kind of like go back and be like, I need you, you know?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: And there wasn't an ounce of hesitation in her, there wasn't anger, there wasn't frustration.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, who fucking cares what happened?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we jumped right back into it, and that's how I knew that she was like, like, I'll probably die, and she'll be like the one, yeah, like dripping the water off my head, you know.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: And we've all we've always talked about like having one of those secret, I don't know if I should say it, but we've always wanted to have like our own apartment, like away from everybody that's like our secret apartment that we can go to and meet up with that has a pool and we can do our own thing, but nobody knows about it, and like we could just go hang out together.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and maybe someday we'll just she'll be my non-sexual lesbian life partner.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, um yeah.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Are we ready for some rapid fire questions?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, here.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: Can you stop being friends but still follow each other on social media?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think it depends, but for the most part, I would say no.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: I stopped following them like immediately and block them.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: I never did.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: I never followed this.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you never that then you weren't friends.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, but it's because I've never like that, was I only had one breakup.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's true.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it was like a beginning of a few.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a yeah, it was like a friend of a friend.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a red flag if a friend secretly competes with you?
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I I think that there's something about like mutually challenging each other to grow together, or like in your own avenue, but supporting each other versus secretly competing with you.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think that's different.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the answer?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:44
  unknown: Okay, cool.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: If your spouse hates your best friend, who wins?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: My spouse.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: It'd have to be, right?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: What do you value more in a friendship?
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Loyalty or honesty?
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Honesty.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Every time.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: And loyalty's great, but I feel like honesty comes and then the loyalty follows that because if they weren't loyal, they wouldn't be honest with you.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because they wouldn't give a shit.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I think they come together.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is it a red flag if your friend tells your business to their partner?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's like a lot in marriage.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's expected, right?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like anytime I tell a friend of mine something, I always know it's going back to their spouse.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Every time.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: 1000%.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not like they're gonna be like, Did you hear?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like part of the convo.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like you're talking about it as your partner, you know.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think if somebody tells you, like, oh, please don't tell this to your spouse, they're gonna know.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just know that they're gonna go back and they're gonna tell their spouse.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: They'll tell you no.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then their spouse will never mention it.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they'll keep it locked up tight.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: Top secret.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: I will say, side note, and this is just a little bit, dudes, pay attention here, is when you are involved in some sort of um drama or there's an opportunity in which you could gather more information, yes, or the T, or something's happening, or there's a need for follow-up questions.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: Don't come back to your spouse and tell them, like, here are the three things that happened, and not have asked the more in-depth questions because we're gonna have those questions.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: We want to know the T.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: We did this the other day, and I you and me, my husband, we went to you know, a friend's house and his wife was there, and I was like, Hey, what's going on with so and so?
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Oh my gosh, let me tell you.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked him really great follow-up questions, and on our drive home, he's like, You did really good at that.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I know and that's how it's done.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: You see how it's done each time.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I will say, shoutouts to my man because there was a situation where he had had to be involved in something, and I told him I need follow-up questions and details.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the minute he was out of that situation, he called me and goes, I don't want to forget any of it.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, and he laid it all out.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Brownie points.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I appreciate that.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: We want you to know, we want to know everything the details, all the things, yes, and we're not gonna say anything, but we want to understand it.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: What if you don't like your friend's partner?
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like their spouse.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: What if I don't like like you don't feel like that they're like good for them or that that's a healthy relationship?
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you do about that?
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: I try to be very honest.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say it?
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: I have been in that situation, and I have shared some of the things that I observed, and fortunately this person is no longer with you know who they were, and now they're in a different relationship and they're much happier.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I do think I I had to be very careful with how I said things because her and her partner were going through a very challenging time in their relationship, and I think sometimes um things can be misunderstood based on how they're delivered, and you can cause more damage than you could do good.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: So by siding with yeah, well, not even that, but sometimes, like if you bring for in in the example that I'm sharing, um she was significantly more bringing more to the relationship.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: She was working two jobs, he was at home in the apartment, playing video games all day, not cleaning, not cooking, coming back to a dirty kitchen, no meal on the table, and then he would get upset and throw things at the wall because he lost out on his game.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what kind of relationship is that, right?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a child.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: You're dating a child.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Looking back at it, I was like, hey, I would ask her questions of like, why are you working or what does he pay for?
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and I remember that you can't tell somebody what to do, but you can only make them realize what situation they're living in because sometimes they don't even have the mind or the space to do that.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think slowly and surely I brought things to her attention, but I do always wait until she says, Well, what do you think?
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: I will never You don't proactively share.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't proactively share, and I think because if you share your opinion and they're not ready to listen, then they're not going to, they're not gonna do anything.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: And there's times where like I've talked to my friends and they're venting about situations or or their partner or whatever, and I've learned through proactively sharing, which didn't go well, um, to ask, like, do you want me to listen?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want me to give you advice, or do you just want a shoulder to cry on?
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then that way I know which direction to go with it because I don't want to do, and a lot of times happens is that you share your opinion and then they're still together, and you're like, Well, now I'm the one that's said what they shouldn't have said, and I'm in the bad situation now.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: We learned that in therapy, me and Josh, when we went to couples counseling, and let me just tell you, it saves you so many unsolicited arguments.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: It just it's the best thing that you can do.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because there was times where I'd be like, I just want to vent to you and I need to tell you what happened for my day, and I just and I would cry and I would sit there and he would just be like, Oh, okay, I'm sorry.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next day, when I was feeling much better and I let it all out, I'd be like, Okay, now what do you think?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I was ready to listen and I was prepared.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: Where if he would have told me, but you're gonna be okay, I would have been like, Yeah, because I was mad.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm angry, yes.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, all right.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: My last question for you.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever been a toxic friend?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: Have I ever been the toxic friend?
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, let me think back on this.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've been alive a lot of years.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: I've had a lot of friends.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I actually do.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think I have been.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually have reconnected with this friend um since that.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that I um I don't necessarily know if it was like toxic from a place like I wish them, I didn't wish them bad will or anything like that, but I was very much focused on myself at that time.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think that I was giving 100%.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: I also was in like a new relationship, and I was sacrificing our relationship over my my my future relationship, which obviously didn't work out.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: And her and I have connected recently a few times and are meeting up more frequently, and she even asked me, she was like, Well, what happened?
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I I had to admit to myself that it it really was me, you know.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think that I have been.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I learned from that situation, and I'm glad that she's willing to like still come to the table, you know.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because she's a good person.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're probably all a little cray cray, so oh yeah, for sure.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for joining us for Off the Clock on the Rocks with Abby and Kate, where we uh end work and we talk about real life.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so here we are.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: Bye bye.