Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 366 - The Other Side Of Elm Street

Transcript

JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 366 - The Other Side Of Elm Street · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I love strip clubs. Oh my god, it's the lights,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: a lack of lights, I guess, the music, the weird
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: pattern carpets, the athleticism. I just women are fucking incredible.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: And when I go to strip clubs, whoever I'm with,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I have to tell them my signals.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Right, So a big one for me when I'm.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Sitting up at the stage, which is ninety percent of
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the fucking time, and I go like this, Oh excuse
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: me when I am like this right, this means I
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: want a gent tonic two lines at one hundred dollars
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: and ones bopeep peep, I fucking all night because if
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: you're not tipping aggressively, get.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: The fuck out.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: I'm at this club in New Orleans, and let me
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: tell you that creole COUCHI and buy you Booby's got
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: my gumbo going.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I'm so sorry.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: I'm hungry and I need a nap and I'll see
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: myself out.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: That was.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Cringey. The shot didn't come from that building behind me.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Came from back there, behind the fence on the grassy knoll.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: That's where the man was. Not the book depository, remember.
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: That he is the Tories. Then jobs joke bes and
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: it tromm Wee Bam and Toby and Joby rop Den,
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: job red and jobs jobs and then Timm be Bam
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: and timber Be then job Rip, Doty, job Red, Chill, Sat, Shame, Jack, Jack, Sellom,
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: Joe kill we.
• 1:54
  Speaker 5: And here we go.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: That's right, Joseph. Once again, it's Friday night.
• 2:01
  Speaker 5: You know what that means.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Another exciting addition live of the Lone Cooming podcast. Here
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: on the youtubees tonight, we're gonna be talking.
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: About time to party.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir, pull out your little whirligigs and hit the
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: streamers kids. Tonight, we're gonna be talking about the other
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: side of Elm Street, the one that nobody likes to
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: talk about or doesn't talk about very much. Well, we're
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: gonna tonight because you know that we're witnesses on that
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: side of the street that we can identify that aren't
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: lying about who they were. But I digress. We'll get there,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: promise you. Before we get going and cooking and hot
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: and heavy into this subject though, First of all, Joe,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: let me get the clapping's ready. There's the home I
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: was golf clopping. There's your golf clap and uh, hang
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: on a second, I gotta spray a little splooging out
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: here if I can find it. Oh, there it is.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: You know why because the Double B just gifted five memberships.
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: Yes, thank you the Double B. And for the audio
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: listeners only, the Double or the Trouble Be is a
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: sploo jig, a bunch of confetti on the video stream.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: It's raining down all over us.
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: Yes, we're not being inappropriate, just to be, although we
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: like to. It's like David Ferry, let's see who got them, Matthew,
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: Matthew Bates. I didn't get one because I got last week.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Thank god that yeah, thank god, t.
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: Logan Uh, Andrea got one, Leo and NK. And to
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: get the horn ready because the Double B came through
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: second time.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Ship hold on that deserves two horns, it does and
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: more blue John, here we go.
• 4:30
  Speaker 5: You have to get you have to get.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: It's only hitting my face, it's not it's like barely
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: getting on Joe's shoulder.
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Oh you know you never know where it's gonna go, right, Uh,
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: better on your face than my better on your face
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: than my shoulder. But no, we're we're being silly. That's
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: what we like to do, and we like to talk
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: to JFK and yeah, we're gonna talk about the witnesses
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: on the other side of the street today. So before
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: we start, let me say hi to everyone obviously w BB,
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: say hi to Sally, Hello, mister Tony Holman, Big to
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: Scott Edwards, what up? Scott? Are you? He's ready for action?
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: Are you? I? I'm not sure if you're going to
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: answer this year because you're not local to there, and
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: but if you are, let me know. A Peaches, what's up? Peaches?
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: What's up? An asteroid coming? What up?
• 5:44
  Speaker 6: So?
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: David Ferry, Jack Taylor, what's up? What's up? Paul Lenichi?
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: Thank you for expanding my brain.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Anytime, sir. That's what we do.
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we hope we try or or we do the opposite.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: You bring your head will just explode.
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: Zendar sixty one. What's up, Bud? Glen Rocks?
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Would you say Glenn Rocks? Glenn Rocks, Yeah, Glenna's rock?
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: Yes, South to West? What what up with? We are
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: all caught up?
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Oh shit? All right, and we have a major announcement, folks.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: We do want up people.
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, hey, we.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Got a major announcement going on here on the channel.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Major major now many moons ago and the people who
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: are channel members found out about this on Wednesday night,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: but all of you need to know as well. So
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: some months ago, when we decided we were going to
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: on what boycott Lancer this year, Joe had the bright
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: idea of having a research month here on the Lungoman
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: podcast where we feature and focused on independent research, you know,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: people that are doing great work on their own. And
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: I agreed. I said that's a good idea, Joe. We
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: should probably do that. You know, since we do like
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: two presentations every week, you know your kind of presentation
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: out if you will, but we do have one for you.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: So after this week, folks, after tonight, starting next Friday night,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: which I know is Halloween, you don't have to watch
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: it live. The show will not be live, but I'm
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: going to set it as an instant premiere at the
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: usual time for seven pm. Okay, we're going to pre
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: record the show because some of us have to take
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: small children trick or treating, or some of us, like
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: the creeperly hang out on our front porch and hand
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: out kids.
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: And seeing as you or I don't have little children,
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: I guess that leaves only one option.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, you have to love those teenage girls who just
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: look too old to be trick or treating.
• 8:26
  Speaker 5: You know, Joe right now, that's that's a good curb
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: your enthusiasm thing. When some older girls came to his
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: door and he's like, how old are you and they're
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: like twelve, He's like, I don't think so refuse to
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: give them candy.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah hard, It's great. So starting next week, we're going
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: to do our first presentation for our independent research month,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: if you will, is what we're calling it, but it's
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: actually six weeks long. It's not just a month. It's
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: just easier to call it a month instead of six.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: So starting next Friday night, we are going to be
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: having James Day and Paul Cummings back on the show
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: to I believe finished discussing the cleaning truck deal which
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: they managed to squeeze out. I think three more parts
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: on over all medium and maybe get into a little
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: bit of Jack Ruby and the general Walker shooting connections.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Possibly the following week we will be live eleven seven,
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: November seventh with Carmine Savastano and we will be talking
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: about the murder of Sam g and Kanna Folks. The
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: week after that, we will be live with Ed Ladoue.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: We're gonna be talking talking about the David's sisters, witnesses
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: to the Tippet shooting, and a little bit of dial
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: rider the guy who supposedly have fixed a site on
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: a rifle for Oswald or a there was a repair
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: ticket found any shop or something like that. I have
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: no idea, but Ed will tell us. And I'm a
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: little excited. This lineup is getting me aroused a little bit.
• 10:27
  Speaker 6: Job.
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but do the confetti over it well.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Now, easy, easy, now.
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: Well, confetti definitely for what we have planned on eleven one.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So eleven twenty one, Joe will be at the
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: conference that we were that we were boycotting this year
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: live along with our esteemed, our esteemed lovely Channel member
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Paula Paula Jane. Yes, and I'm sure, uh, she will
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: speak better than Joe will. And we're gonna get a
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: little recap of what happened at the at the conference
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: on Friday from uh Joe and Paula.
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: Yet little recap of the day Friday, yep, for sure.
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: And she definitely can speak better than me, for sure.
• 11:30
  Speaker 7: Yes, And then Joe and I will be doing our
• 11:35
  Speaker 7: own little independent research, Uh, a little deal for you
• 11:40
  Speaker 7: guys that we've been working on for the past couple
• 11:41
  Speaker 7: of months in secret in Toto.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: It's it's going to be a banger. I'm just we're
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: just telling you that would we let you down? Folks?
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Did we let you down for the Martin Show? Who
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: digs deeper then your boys?
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: Not?
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: When we get the focus?
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: Not many?
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Not many?
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: And this year there's a few. There's a few, not many.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: This year will be no exception. So we got something
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: special plan for you. But we're not going to tell
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: you the topic yet because well, I gave the members
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: an clue, and I guess I'll give everybody here a
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: clue as well. And this is the only one you're
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: gonna get. April eighth, nineteen sixty three. There's your clue.
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: The week after that, eleven twenty seven, Okay, that's to
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: be announced. Okay, because Joe is supposed to procure us
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: a guest whilst at Lancer and if he does not
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: procure us a guest, what was your punishment? I forget, Uh,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know what was it? That was some do.
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: I have to do it by myself? Or no? What
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: was it? I can't remember.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I can't remember either, but it was a good one.
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: I'm sure I remember it will remind us.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think I told you you had to
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: find somebody. If not, you're gonna present by yourself or
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: something like that. Yeah, you're gonna to come up with
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: a topic and uh and let me know, let's be announced.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: And then the week after that, folks, wait.
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: Eleven is eleven twenty seven Turkey Day? Interesting? No, why
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: did say that?
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Joe will realize that Thanksgiving happens on Thursday every year?
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: What?
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, so you have it one day off? Okay, yeah,
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: eleven twenty eight TVA.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Why I blame whoever made this graphic?
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: Yes, which is me? Or yeah?
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Uh, Black Friday is what we're talking about here, folks,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: not Giving Day.
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: Thank you Trey for pointing that out.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Trey, Old Eagle over there Shreveport, Eglai. Hopefully
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: the fifth is the right date for that Friday after that? Uh,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: for Larry Hancock and David Boylin, it is correct finally
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: getting David on the show. And if Joe does not
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: twist Boylan's arm enough to come on the show, Joe
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: will be publicly uh humiliated. Here live on YouTube with
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: a ruler.
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah. No, that that is a great finale, right, I
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: mean who can who better than Larry Hancock and David
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: Boylan two have researchers that I definitely hold in huge regard.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Uh where do you hold them?
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: Hall of Fame level, gold jacket level, gold jacket, blue jacket,
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: green jacket. Who gives a show?
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: We got some bangers coming up for you folks after tonight. Yeah,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: it begins next week. Like I said, next week, we
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: will not be live. The show will be live for you.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: We will not.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: We will probably be there in spirit maybe in the
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: chat along with you guys as you watch along, but
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: we will be recording the show ahead of time because
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: of Halloween. Other than that, they're going to be live.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that's coming folks.
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: Trey's gonna go as David Ferry this year. If you
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: do that, I will drive fly to Streeport and give
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: you a hook and know them. That would be awesome.
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: Fake eyebrow, that would be hilarious. But yeah, that we
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: We've worked a couple of months behind the scenes to
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: come up with this lineup that has started as one
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: month ended up being six weeks. I will find someone
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: at lancer and.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to him.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: You know, we told James Day we'd have him back
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: to finish up. Seemed like a good time to do it.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: And we really liked having James and Paul on the show,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: so they were definitely invited back. Carmine, as you know,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: longtime friend of the show, friend of ours, it's been
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: a while. We want to have him back on. We're
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: gonna have him back on. And Ed Ludou again, a
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: longtime friend of the show.
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: I can't wait to talk to him.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Man always produces banger after banger after banger when he
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: comes on here. So and he doesn't go on and
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: do other podcasts, folks. You know, he's kind of like
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: an exclusive yet and we couldn't be more thrilled about that.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: So that's the lineup, that's what's coming up. But tonight
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: again we're going on the other side of Elm Street.
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: Joe, who is.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Who in the Sam Hill was on the other side
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: of the road, Joe, let's look here, yes, by the
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: way real quick? Please?
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: Oh yes, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, highlighting double b saying
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: if I don't get someone for a week five of six,
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: your ass is grass.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you and Brandon can do the show while
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I watch. Okay, as you can see here, we have
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: a slide a photo of from somebody I don't know,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: maybe uh Skags, I think maybe maybe to still from
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: the much more film who the hell knows, but yeah,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: it is from that day. Now what you'll see here, folks,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: is Officer Joe Smith, right and his little short legs
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: and his baggy pants taking off and heading for the
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Grassy knoll from his position that was a further up
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Elm Street right.
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Why it appears he looks like he is running across
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: the Grassy promenade or whatever you call this area that's
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: in between of Elm and Maine. We'll just call it
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: the Grassy area henceforth. So he's headed that way all right,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: across the street. You can see the Newmans have hit
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the deck jack right, they've hit the ground running. Okay.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Now you can see three motorcycle cops in this picture.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Two are on their motorbikes. One has parked his bike
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: and has possibly removed his helmet. Okay, now standing up
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: directly in front of the bike that is parked in
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: a brown raincoat and a babushka on her head is
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: the infamous Babushka Lady. Yes, okay, Now I apologize for
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: us not having a first Day a statement or a
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Garrison investigation statement or an HSCA investigation statement or an
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: RB statement from the Bubushka Lady, the legit Bubushka Lady.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking about old Beverly Oliver because she's not it. Okay,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: she's a big fraud and a liar, and I'm sorry
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: if you think otherwise, but that's the truth, poet.
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: And we did a really interesting segment on the Babushka Lady,
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: maybe earlier this year, twenty episodes, thirty forty fifty ago,
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: I don't know, but we.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Did a guys alien. Yeah, because if you look at
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: our graphic here, and if you look at the colored
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: version of the Babushka Lady all the way on the right,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: you can tell that is not a seventeen year old
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: bottle blonde dancer. Okay, folks, it's just not. It's some
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: middle aged lady. It was a little hefty on the
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: hefty side, and I'm not mad at her, okay, but
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: it's not Beverly Oliver.
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: It just is not, folks, rob We all know it's
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: a rothschild. We all know this, but we'll bypass the
• 20:57
  Speaker 5: lab subject.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a June Cobb. Okay, back to the picture
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: of hand. Okay, So right behind the babushka ladies, ass
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: you have Charles Brim and his five year old son.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: They are seated on the ground. Brim is using his
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: son as a shield from more possible shots I mean
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: from the sixth floor of the depository building. Okay, we'll rob.
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: You know, something interesting that I found out this week is.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: That Brem was not only.
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: In World War Two in Normandy, but was a US
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: Army ranger.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: And he was and he was shot yeah multiple times. Yeah,
• 21:54
  Speaker 5: which is so him you know covering his son.
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: Is you know?
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: That was jokes, Joe, I said, no, no, I I know.
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: I just wanted to point out that interesting, uh, that
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: fact because I had no idea.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: You can see where his son is seated. His son
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: is in between himself and the depository building. That's why joke. Yes, yes,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: So if he was truly thought that the shots were
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: coming from that building, maybe he would put his son
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: behind him, I don't know, maybe cover him up a
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: little bit.
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: Well, I think the shots had ended by that time.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Now you know they're still on the ground. The Newmans
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: are still prone.
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: Well, the Newman stay prone forever.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: You're getting their picture taken. They get yeah, don't get up. Yeah,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Hold on. This is the pools of Prize type ship. Folks,
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: don't move. Okay, back to the photo. Okay, So to
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: the rear of the parked motorcycle in the middle of
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Elm Street. You see someone crouching in a red coat.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: That would be Jeane Hill, Folks. You know, the figure
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: in the dark coat beside her, sitting on the ground
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: would be Mary Mormon. Ye between her, who famously took
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: the Mormon photograph the grassy Knoll at the instant the
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: President was shot in the head. Now, we're gonna take
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: a look at a couple more angles of this whole deal, right,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: because it's kind of hard to figure out where in
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: the hell everybody was standing from all these different angles
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: and at different times. Okay, So this is five frames
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: roughly before JFK gets its head blown off. This is
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: a still from the Zappruder film. You can see Mary
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Mormon and Jean Hill standing h towards the rear of
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: the limousine. Jackie is checking on JFK. This is mere
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: seconds before you know, go boom, Mormon's got her camera
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: up to her face, getting ready to take her iconic picture.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: All right, so we've got that and then we got this.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Now this is interesting. This has to be sometime after
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: the shots. Okay, I wish I could blow this up
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: a little more. But as you can see redcoat towards
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: the bottom, that's Gene Hill. M She even autographed this
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: picture right under where she's standing and it says Jeane Hill. Okay.
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: Now there are there are some of these floating around
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: on eBay of like all different fascination witnesses. It's it's interesting.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: It appears that Brem and his son are on their
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: feet all the way to the left side of the photograph,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: and there are people starting to head up the grassy
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: knoll towards the corner of defence line up near the
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: overpathe yes, okay, the new ones are no longer on
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: the ground either. Thank god, they finally let him up.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Holy shit. Okay, now this is a little bit of
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: a closer version. Now we can see the motorcycle cop
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: does not have his homet office. His hemet is on
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: the guy that dismounted.
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: Just because it's it's like overlapping this cement.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: It kind of blings in with the stairs.
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: And again we can see Brem and his son. We've
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: got the Bubushkalladian. We got Mormon and Hill boom. Right,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: this is two frames after the last one we saw
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: the z film. Three more frames, head goes boom. We're
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: almost there.
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they have not hit the ground yet. Hill and Mormon.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Right now, this one is interesting. Head has gone boom,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Clinton Hill has just reached the limousine. Jackie's about ready
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: to get the fuck out of there and start crawling.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Now there's an interesting figure Joe towards the front of
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: the limousine holding a camera up to his face. See
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: that I do.
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: I was just gonna ask you who are they?
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you who that is, Joe. That would
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: be James Ike.
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: Altins, ah the Altarns photos.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now what's interesting is I want to know who
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: the guy, the fat guy is right above Jackie because
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: it looks like that dude's kind of camera too. Yeah,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: to the left of Alkins, you know, but I don't
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: know who that is. Oh yeah, if anybody else knows
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: who that is out there and enlighten me.
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: Please, yeah, or or we'll ask Alex and follow up.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Because I believe, and we'll talk about Altins. But you know,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: he took his famous Alcin sixth photograph of the limousine
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: where Kennedy was hitting the throat and you can kind
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: of see through the window and you can see the
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Oswald figured in the doorway. Who is Billy love Lady
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: and all of that stuff, and then he should have
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: taken a picture right here, but I think the shot
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: startled him and he didn't. If he would have clipped
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: his camera at this moment, he would have gotten an
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: iconic photograph instead. His altars in seven photograph is of
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: the rear of the limousine after it passed him, after
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: the headshot, as it is heading towards the Triple Overpass.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: But if he had to click something right here money
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: because he had a damn good camera right right all
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: It reminds me of that guy that caught uh, the
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: Butler Trump assassination bullet in mid air? Do you remember that?
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: I mean that was crazy. All right.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Here's a here's a little bit of a I think
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: this is from the much more I think this is
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: a much more still. All right, So the Babushka lady
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: in her staunch thighs, it looks like she's got a
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: camera up to her face.
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: You see Charles Brimm right in front of her, kind
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: of to her right. He's got a bald spot and
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: a Baye jacket on mm hmm. And then to the
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: left you got Jeane Hill in her iconic red coat,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: barely see Mary Mormon's black coat.
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, this is right.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Almost at the instant that Mary Mormon takes her photograph,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: right right.
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: A couple of seconds like milliseconds before almost.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean these are all iconic images, Joe.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Let's take a look at something else here. So this
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: is a panel that was made, i think for the
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Warrant Commission, and it's it's of some frames from the
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Zapruder film, of course, and you can see at the
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: top the third one over you see Charles Brim's young
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: son and him and the Bubushka lady is standing like
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: right behind him, right, and and Jean Hill in her
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: red coat, and it you know, as a prud is panting,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: you see the Brims kind of drop out, and you
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: see Jean Hill and Mary Mormon coming more into the picture. Yes,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: and then right down from Mary Mormon and Jeane Hill,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: you would have Ike Augians, which we can't see.
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: Right now, right to to the right as we're looking
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: at it.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, as it goes there left. Yeah, yeah, they're left
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: our right. Yes. So let's let's start with Gene Hill, Joe,
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: let's do that first day Affidavid.
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: Well, I was thinking, rob, let's start with the video
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: and then go to the Affidavid.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Or No, that's fine, you mean her first interview, yeah,
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: eleven twenty two, this is on TV. Yes, okay, let's
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: see what Jeane had to say. And and uh, by
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: the way, Jeane not a bad looking lady.
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: Or or Mormon. They're both cuties.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: I'm getting pain vibes off Jean Hill though a little
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: bit that.
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: It's not a terrible analogy Jean Hill.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: And when she turns after she turns like sixty, not
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: so much but early Jean Hill.
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, alright, let's do that. Let's see what you judge
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: for yourselves. Only two minutes and twenty six seconds. And
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: this is courtesy of David von Payne's JFK channel, which.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: They bring on Penus Notorious Nutter. Thank you, Joe.
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well he has a lot of great videos, that's
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: for sure.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: In a horrible name.
• 31:54
  Speaker 8: Go ahead, This is missus Jeanie Hill upon Dallas. Would
• 32:07
  Speaker 8: you tell us what you saw?
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: Yes, Mary and I had come down to see the
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: President this morning, and we tried to get a place
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: where the President and toward us. He was on our
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: side of the street, and the President and Missus Kennedy
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: were in the back seat, had a little dog between
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: them looking at it, And just as the car came
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: right in line with us, the President looked up, and
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: just as he looked up, two shots rang out, and
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: he grabbed his chest and this real odd look came
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: over his face and he pitched forward onto her lap.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: And she jumped up over him at that and screamed
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: and said, my god, he's been shot. And there was
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: just an instantaneous, sort of an instant's pause, and in
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: the motorcated momentarily halted, and three or four more shots
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: rang out, and they sped away real quickly, and by
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: that time I became aware of Mary tugging on my foot,
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: saying get down there, sitting, and I hadn't it hadn't
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: registered and been so busy looking at the president.
• 33:10
  Speaker 9: You were in a very advantageous spot to see.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: The president, to see the president, but also to get shot.
• 33:18
  Speaker 9: How do you feel now, Well, spend several hours later. Uh,
• 33:21
  Speaker 9: you've talked to the police, and you've given your story
• 33:24
  Speaker 9: several times. Do you still believe it something like this
• 33:26
  Speaker 9: really did happen to you.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: I don't think I ever could have believed it unless
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: I had actually seen it and s and when I
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: saw the look come across his face, I knew that.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: I knew that he'd been hit. But I don't think
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: I could have believed it if I hadn't been right
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: fair and seen hadn't seen it.
• 33:44
  Speaker 9: Well, and you're gonna have to talk to the FBI now,
• 33:46
  Speaker 9: And uh, I understand, Uh, you have some home chores as.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: Well, breakfast dishes and and everything.
• 33:54
  Speaker 9: I think there are an awful lot of homes here
• 33:55
  Speaker 9: in Dallas, and I have breakfast dishes, uh to be
• 33:58
  Speaker 9: done today.
• 33:59
  Speaker 8: Well, that's right.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: But made a call to my friend in Oklahoma and
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: he told our governor of Oklahoma right away. I guess
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: that's the first thing I wanted to do, was get
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: those people in Oklahoma told about it.
• 34:13
  Speaker 8: Thank you, very much.
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: All right, well that is gene hell and she says
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: two shots.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: And then.
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: Four more shots. You're muer fuck me running.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: This is just another example of how I witness that
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: is mirror ten feet away, if that from the limousine
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: can be so incredibly wrong about facts. First, it's the
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: president and Jackie are talking to a dog in the
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: back seat. Okay, like what the fuck?
• 35:04
  Speaker 6: Uh?
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: There was a puppet lamb chop Okay that she might
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: have mistaken for a dog, not a real dog, a
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: puppet that was given to Jackie a love field along
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: with some roses. I doubt they were looking at it
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: or playing with it, or maybe Jackie had it on
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: her hand and was rubbing. Jfkse died with who knows
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: what's going on in the one?
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: Really, I did not know that. Who knows? Oh, I'm joking,
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: You're gonna sold me. I'm saying what.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Jean Hill saw. But like you said, she said, you
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: know that she heard a shot and he's clutching his
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: chest but he was actually his throat right. He pitched over,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: and then Jackie started to climb out, or the limousine stopped.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Jackie started to climb out. Then three or four more
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: shots rang out. But I get it. You know, people
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: in that situation who are not used to this stuff,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: they there their brains like freak out right, because you're
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: not expecting something like this to happen, and when it
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: does happen, you know, it fries your brain momentarily, and
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: when you look back on things, you know, if you're
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: not used to being in this situation, you know, uh,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: you're gonna get some facts wrong and you're gonna be
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: misremembering kind of the sequence of events. This is why,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: while eyewitnesses are important to things, you have to take
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: what they say with a grain of salt.
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: There are always going to be anomally anomalies, anomalies always
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: with any case. To look at Charlie Kirk anything.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Every eyewitness, including it Hoffman, because even though he's sitting
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: right there, he's a zillion miles away from what he's
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: looking at. You're still gonna get some things wrong, you know,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: and it's up to us to try to figure out
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: what everybody saw, because as you're gonna see a lot
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: of these witnesses have very different stories despite standing two
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: feet away from each other, right, you know, it's like,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: what the hell so that being said, what in the
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: hell did Jean Hill tell the Dallas Sheriff's office?
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: All right, well, I won't show you right now. It's
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: all and this his er, her missus, Jean Hill, the
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: very cute lady in Red eleven DPD, Affid David, Mary
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: and I, of course Mormon were wanting to take some
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: pictures of the president. So we purposely tried to find
• 38:13
  Speaker 5: a place that was open where no people were around.
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: And we had been a standing halfway down toward the
• 38:22
  Speaker 5: underpass on Elm Street on the south side. We were
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: the only people in that area.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: You weren't.
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: And by the way, in her book later Rob she says,
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: we had to smooth some police officers to get in.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: There, right, I know.
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: So this is why we're only focusing on day of
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: DPD and FBI statements and interviews. The President's car came
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: around the corner and it was over on our side
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: of the street. Just as Mary Mormon started to take
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: a picture. We were looking at the President and Jackie
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: in the back seat and they were looking at a
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: little dog between them. Consistent, just just at least she's
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: consistent for now. On that day, I saw the President
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: grab his chest and fall forward across Jackie's lap, and
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: she fell across his back and said, my god, he
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: has been shot. And we have heard that phrase repeated
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: by I believe Connolly, Connolly's wife.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Yep, right. I mean they're close enough to the limo
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: to hear this right, but they're getting major facts wrong.
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, there was an instant pause between the first two shots,
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: and the motorcade seemingly halted for an instant and three
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: or four more shots rang out and the mortorcade sped away.
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: So this isn't a misspeak like I do every two seconds.
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: Here she's saying this in an interview and in her
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: official Life of David.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she gave this first, then she went on TV,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: then she talked to the FBI. Well, now she had
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: to go home and do dishes first show. Oh yeah, woman,
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: she should do. Get your ass in the kitchen, make
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: me a sandwich. Nineteen sixty in Dallas.
• 40:39
  Speaker 5: I thought I saw some men in plain clothes shooting back,
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: but everything was such a blur. Yeah, I agree with
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: you there, and Mary was pulling on my legs, saying,
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: get down, very oh they are I think it's a typo.
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: They are shooting. I looked across the street and saw
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: and up the hill and saw a man running towards
• 41:08
  Speaker 5: the monument, and I started running over there. By the
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: time I got up to the railroad tracks, some policemen
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: that I suppose were in the motorcade or nearby had
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: also arrived and was toning us back. And I came
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: back down the hill. Missus Featherstone, Mister Featherstone. As I
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: came back down the hill, mister Featherstone of the Times,
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: Harold had gotten to marry and asked for her picture
• 41:39
  Speaker 5: she had taken of the President.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's who The chubby guy was behind him, could
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: have been mister Featherstone. I presume I had big stupid
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: thumbprint all over the most important picture in American history.
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: You asked them, right, it does sound like in the
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: name of that scaffooza there. And he brought us to
• 42:05
  Speaker 5: the press room down spelled wrong at the Sheriff's office
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: and asked to stay. Okay, that is the DPD which
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: happened first. Now we'll go to the FBI. This is
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: eleven twenty three, but it was actually dictated taken in
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: the day before eleven twenty two. November twenty second, stated.
• 42:35
  Speaker 5: Jean Hill stated on November twenty second, sixty three, was
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: standing on Elm Street in the vicinity of TSBD, observing
• 42:42
  Speaker 5: the party composed of the President, his wife Connolly blah
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: blah blah blah blah blah blah. Jean Hill advised she
• 42:49
  Speaker 5: heard something like a rifle shot and observed Kennedy Crumple
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: in his seat in the automobile. She was standing nearby
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: as the automobibile was passing the spot where she stood
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: at the time. And this is all of it.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: That FBI statement is leaving out a lot of ship
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: that she told the Dallas ors.
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: Right, And you took the words right out of my mouth.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Bro, Like, what the hell, man? I mean, there's more
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: bullshit about who she went, what she was doing. You know,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I was standing on Elm Street deserving the presidential party
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: composed of the President of the United States and so
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: on and so forth. I mean that that entire paragraph
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: is longer than her statement, right, right.
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: And and you said this a few weeks ago, you said, listen,
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: we're not going to defend the DPD. But they did
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: do some things, right.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know that they questioned her. They just
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: had they had her rite a statement.
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: Out and well which was and didn't edit it. I'm
• 43:57
  Speaker 5: saying they did do some things, right, I'm not defending them.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: No, the FBI did it differently. They questioned the witness.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: They probably asked her, what did you see and hear
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: that day? She said that, and then they were like, okay, thanks, right,
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: we'll call you.
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: And it's at their discretion what they write in the report. Yes, right.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Now, do you have the next one?
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: Who will the next one being for? I'm sorry, March thirteenth,
• 44:33
  Speaker 5: sixty four, I don't have that one.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Oh well, good thing, I do. Thank you, You're welcome.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: In an interview on March thirteenth by special Agents kJ
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Robertson and Thomas Tretis, Junior Missus Jean Laalas Hill stated
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: that after President Kennedy was shot and after the shooting stopped,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: she recalled that she noticed a white man wearing a
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: brown raincoat and a hat went away from the school
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: book depository in the direction of the railroad tracks. Now
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: this is in direct contrast to what she said before,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: where she said she saw a man running from the
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: hill towards the depository. There's two different directions and one's
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: that way and one's that way, but okay. The following
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: investigation was conducted at Dallas, Texas by Special Agent Robertson
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: in an attempt to establish the identity of this person.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: This white man seen running away from the depository towards
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: the train tracks from according to Gene Hill So on
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: March twenty seven, sixty four, a review of the newspaper
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: clippings of the November twenty second issue of the Dallas
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: Times Herald disclosed the following information. Patrolman W. E. Barker
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: salt workers in the school Book Depository building peeking out
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: a window from the third floor and pointing to a
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: man wearing horn rimmed glasses, a plaid coat and a raincoat.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: On April first, Patrolman Barker, Dallas Police advised the newspaper
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: article was an error as the location of the people
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: tapping on the window in an attempt to attract his
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: attention to a man standing on Elm Street shortly after
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: the assassination of Kennedy. Patrolman Barker stated the people were
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: in the warehouse east of the school Book Depository building
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: and the man was standing south of this building on
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: l Street between the Warehouse and the Dally County Dallas
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: County Office building. We'll get there, I promise. This is
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: very fucking confusing.
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: He stated.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: The man was taken to the Dallas County Sheriff's office
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: for questioning and released insomuch as no basis for any
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: allegation against this person was ever established. What we're talking
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: about here, folks, is the arrest of Larry Floor out
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: of the Dow Text Building for no other reason other
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: than people in some window in some building, on some
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: floor were pointing at him after they got an officer's
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: attention by tapping on their window, whatever that means. He
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: further stated, the man was taken to the Sheriff's office
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: in fifteen minutes after the President was shot and could
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: not possibly have been the person observed by Jean Hill
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: because of the time lag and the fact that man
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: was not wearing and did not possess a hat. March thirtieth,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty four, Captain Lawrence of the Dallas Police Department
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: advised that a review of his file fails to disclose
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: any information that would assist in identifying a man wearing
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: a brown raincoat and a hat observed running west away
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: from the Depository building on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three,
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: immediately after the President was shot. Captain Lawrence stated the
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: patrolman W. E. Barnett, Welcome Barnett and Joe Smith were
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: assigned to work the intersection of Houston and Elm Streets
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: on the date the Presidential motor Cave. Patrolman James Foster
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: was assigned to work on the east side of the
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: railroad overpass over Elm, Maine and Commerce Streets. Foster, Patrolman
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Traffic Accident Squad, advised he arrived at his station on
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: November twenty second at ten ten am took up a
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: point on the railroad overpass overlooking the triple intersection. Patrolman
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Foster stated he remained at this station until after President
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Kennedy was shot, and he immediately thereafter surveyed the area
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: where he was stationed and observed the area west of
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: the Book Depository leading towards the railway tracks and at
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: no time did he see any white dude wearing a
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: brown raincoat and a hat. On March thirty first, nineteen
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: sixty four, mister Roger Craig, Deputy Sheriff, Civil Department, Dallas County,
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Sheriff's Office advice. He was on Houston just south of
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Elm on November twenty second when Kennedy was shot. He
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: stated he observed the crowds standing on Houston and Elm
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: Streets and at no time did he observe any white
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: person wearing a brown raincoat and a hat. Patrolman Welcome Barnett,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Dallas Police Department Advice. He was assigned to work on
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: traffic at the intersection of Houston and Elms and arrived
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: at his station at approximately ten am and remained there
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: until really even on the afternoon of this date. Stated
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: that he was the policeman referred to as being contacted
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: by Missus Jean on that date at the Book Depository building,
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: and he remembers repairing her cigarette lighter on that date.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: He stated that he did not know who the hell
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: this woman was and did not know her name, but
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: did remember the incident and remembers observing Missus Hill and
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: another woman standing on the grassy slope of the south
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: side of Elm Street at the time of the motorcade.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Barnett stated he observed the crowd at this location immediately
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: after Kennedy was shot. After the car in which conn
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Or Kennedy was riding, had left the area hard not
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: to notice the hot chick whose cigarette lighter has broken,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: wearing all red from head to toe. Joe, excuse me, mister,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: mister officer, can you fix my cigarette lighter?
• 50:55
  Speaker 5: Please?
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: I just can't get it. I just can't get it.
• 51:00
  Speaker 5: That's very weird.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Dam that's what we do here. President has just been
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: shot and what was like a screwgrabbing Why didn't you.
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: Just ask listen, like if you're you need to smoke
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: a cigarette.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: After you you got a light?
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Do you ask anyone to
• 51:15
  Speaker 5: fix your lighter?
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: She really needed a cigarette though.
• 51:20
  Speaker 5: I know, but just asked for a light, not can
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: you fix my lighter?
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: Wanted your own light. Maybe I don't know because back
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: then it took flints cotton right and uh right?
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I used to smoke cigarettes. If I
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: needed a light, I would ask do you have a light?
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: Not can you fix my lighter? That's my only point,
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean?
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Like, so, damn's being distressed? Joe all dressed in red.
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, she probably planned on having a few.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: More things to do, like hunt down killers and all,
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: but I really need my separate ladd fixer. You're supposed
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: to serve and protect.
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's serving, that's for sure. That's right.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Several persons in this area rushed to the spot based
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: on this woman's information, which was later proven false, but
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: he did not observe anyone in a brown ringcoat either
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: or a hat running west at this time. And lastly,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: Joe Smith, officer of Smith Patrolman Smith advised that he'd
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: been assigned to work traffic blah blah blah. He stated
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: that immediately after President Kennedy was shot, he ran from
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: the intersection to the west edge of the school book
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: Depository building in an attempt to locate the assassin or
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: establish any other information that would lead to the identification
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: of the assassin. He stated, at no time did he
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: observe here of a man wearing a brown raincoat and
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: hat running west away from the school Depository building in
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: the direction of the railroad tracks on this date. Now, Joseph,
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: are you mad at me?
• 53:19
  Speaker 10: No?
• 53:20
  Speaker 5: Oh, you only call me Joseph when you're mad at me.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to I know. In some photos taken of
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: the area of the knoll after the shots, right and
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: mainly the ones I'm talking about are the ones that
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: kind of show the bubushka lady walking across Elm Street
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: towards the grass. You know, to her left is a
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: figure that is wearing a brown raincoat and a hat
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: and sunglass. This's who people have said, Look, it's E.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: Howard Hunt in Dealey Plaza. Okay, So maybe there was
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: somebody in Deally Plaza wearing a brown raincoat a hat
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: on that day but was not connected to shooting anyone
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: from anywhere near the book depository or the railroad tracks.
• 54:28
  Speaker 5: Just saying yeah, and I think we went over all
• 54:32
  Speaker 5: those claims. I think we did an episode and like
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: the man in the taans arcote, right.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: Yep. Now they interviewed.
• 54:45
  Speaker 5: The FBI.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Interviewed more or Jean Hill again Joe on March seventeenth,
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty four, four days after the last time they did.
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: I've you know, there are some problems with what she
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: said and they have to tie tie things up.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Exactly. So when they talked to her again on March seventeenth,
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: that is Saint Patrick's day, Allegedly, while waiting for the
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: motorcade to arrive at this location, Missus Hill and Mary
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Anne Mormon walked around the Parkway area near the school
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: book depository and attempts to determine the best vantage spot
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: for taking photographs of the president, when, in actuality, these
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: two cougars were. They are trying to get pictures of
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: tow the motorcycle cops that they had a crush on. Okay,
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: I have to there. They weren't there to see president.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, maybe.
• 55:55
  Speaker 5: Rob, I have to push back on you on this.
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: Why because I would satify them as not cougars.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm joking.
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: What I'm joking with you. I'm joking with you. What
• 56:08
  Speaker 5: do you call it?
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: Twenty year old cougar? I mean they're on the proud
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: I mean these days the kids call it a baddie
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: and for the sixty three they're baddies.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, these two baddies were there, Yes, but you look
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: hot and get some pictures of some most cops. I
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: think it was BJ Martin and some one of the
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: other stutooses.
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think what they we might hear one of
• 56:39
  Speaker 5: the next clips. I think Mary Mormon is the next clip,
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: and she might name one of them. I think.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: All right, so missus Hill said, she recalls talking to
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: a uniform policeman near the entrance of the Book Depository.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: This is when she was getting her cigarette like her face.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: Missus Hill noticed an automobile circling the area. The windows
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: of the vehicle were covered with cardboard and the name
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: Honest Joe's Pawn Shop was painted on the side of
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: the car. Missus Hill made a remark about the automobile,
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: and the policeman told her the driver had permission to
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: drive that piece of shit in that area. This car
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: also had a gigantic machine gun mounted on the top
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: of it that did not hopefully right. Just before the
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: motorcade appeared, Mormon and Hill were standing on the lawn
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: in the area between Main and Elm, opposite the entrance
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: of the Book Depository. Although they were way down Elm Street,
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: they were not right across the street from the depository.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: Mormon was taking photographs of the motorcade as it came
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: into view, and when the car occupied by Kennedy was
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: pausing or passing, Missus Hill recalled shouting Hey. She stated
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: that President Kennedy was looking down when she shouted because
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: he's been shot in the throat, and when he turned
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: to look at her, a shot rang out, and he
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: slunk towards Missus Kennedy. Missus Hill heard more shots rang
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: out and saw the hair on the back of President
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: Kennedy's head fly up. She stated she thought Missus Kennedy
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: cried out, oh my god, he's been shot. As the
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: President fell forward into his seat, Missus Hill knew he
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: had been hit by a bullet. Hill stated that she
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: heard from four to six shots in all, and believes
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: they came from a spot just west of the school
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: book Depository building. That would be the no old folks,
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: although they make it seem like right, yeah, he knows West, Okay.
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they definitely messed with the wording there for sure.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: She thought there was a slight time interval between the
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: first three shots Joe and the remaining three or four shots.
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: Wow, I don't know if there were seven, but I
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: am pretty sure there was more than three.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: When the firing finally stopped, Missus Hill noticed that every
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: one in the vicinity seemed to be in a trance,
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: wondering what the fuck just happened?
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: Right, that's natural, Sure, he is sure.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: Missus Hill recalled. It was then that she noticed the
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: white man wearing a brown raincoat and a hat running
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: west from the school Depository building in the direction of
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: the railroad tracks. She said she does not know why,
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: but she started across the street in an effort to
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: see who he was, and in doing so, she ran
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: to the front of a motorcycle escort following the President's
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: car and was nearly hit by one of the policemen.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Missus Hill said she lost the man from view when
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: she looked down at what she first thought was a
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: blood spot but later determined to be a red snow
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: cone melted.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 5: Uh wait what.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, remember this is the This was a puddle of
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: blood from the reporter Jerry Coley at the top of
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: the steps that yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Turns out it
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: was either red soda or a melted snow cone, because
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: he tasted it and it tastes you know.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, he stuck his finger in it, right, and
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 5: yeah yeah we may find we may yeah yeah said blood.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: Let me check. Yep, tastes like copper. It's blood. It's sweet,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: it's just snow, just snow cone cert talking h damn kids?
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: All right, oh man, now what's interesting here, Joe okay,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: is if you marry up Jean Hill's story with oh
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: damn it, the name is escaping me.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: There's on the other side. No, no, no.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: This was a guy who said that he was going
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: to the building that was under construction right on the
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: corner of like Maine in Houston, and he heard shots
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: ring out in Daily Plaza and turned around and looked
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: like he was going there to apply for a job.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: And he turned around and looked and he saw somebody
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: running out of the back of the school book depository
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: wearing a brown jacket, right, and a hat, and then
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: kind of take off. So it's possible, that possible that
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Hill saw the continuation of this first sighting. And I'm sorry,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: the name of the witness is escaping me. Momentarily. I'm
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: sure one of our astute, lovely subscribers will help us
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: out here a little bit, you know.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: What I mean? Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, righting, and tip of my tongue. Who this dude was. Yeah,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: So it's possible that her story could marry up with this,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: and she's catching the continuation of this guy running towards
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: the railroad yard.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 5: But a lot of people were running in that direction.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: Right, and it doesn't you know, shots ring out, you know,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: people are don't all just free. Some of them will run,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: hit the deck, scream, or just stand there dumbfounded. You
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: know what I mean?
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: Everyone? Yeah, or stay on the ground for ten minutes
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 5: and post everyone's going to have a different reaction.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: She thought the man was of average height and heavy build,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: so that narrows it down a little bit, right. Missus
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: Hill then rejoined Mormon where she had left her, and
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: they started to leave the area. They were stopped by
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: mister Feather Dallas, who took them to the press room
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: at the Dallas County Sheriff's office. Hill stated she and
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: Mormon were at the Sheriff's office for two hours and
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: were questioned repeatedly by representatives of the press and various
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: federal and local law enforcement officers. She said the Sheriff's
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: office was a scene extreme confusion and it was impossible
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: to remember what questions were asked for her by the
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: Secret Service agents and FBI agents. I get that, mhmm.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: It was probably crazy crazy town in there, you know.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 5: Well, I have her interview queued up as well as
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 5: her first day after David DPD and FBI.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: When you were already sir, well, we've already talked about
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: all that. Jo so Mormon, Oh Mormon, I thought you
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: Mormon and I was stolen Hill. Uh. Missus Hill advised
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: that it was a month ago she received a call
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: from Mark Lane, a New York attorney, who questioned her
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: regarding the assassination. Hill stated that from reading some of
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: Lane's statements regarding this conversation, she determined that Lane had
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: taken some of her remarks out of context, thus changing
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: the meaning of her replies, had not used her full
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: answers to some of the questions, and had misquoted her
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: in the conversation. Missus Hill stated that Lane had asked
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: her occupation, and she replied that she was a housewife.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: This point was pressed by Lane, and Hill told him
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: she did some substitute teaching. Lane told her this was
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: great because teachers made very good witnesses, right, incredible, Yeah, theory. Now,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: this is not the only complaint lodged against Mark Lane
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: from these witnesses, as you will see as we continue
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: on a little bit. But before we get there, I
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: do have a few more things on Jean Hill. Joseph,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: We're going to check out here real quick, okay, and
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: let's see which one am I looking for here, here
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: is Jean Hill in a much older phase of her life. Joe,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: if you will ready here we go.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 5: M in the wishes.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 8: And thought.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 11: Shots were coming from so when I thought they were
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 11: all coming from this direction in front of man, even toward.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: The railroad tracks.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 11: Really, but I I thought, smoke, no, no, I ready didn't.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 11: I mean, I've heard that since then, you know it
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 11: hurt it at the time, So I said where you know?
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, tell people, what's my guess?
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 5: Maybe I just couldn't.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 12: Believe how he is garty on me.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 5: Point outs I'm here too.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 12: It'd be senseless to get her to go and walk
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 12: with them, point or anything, especially now that we should
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 12: talk so much about Batman her now. But last month
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 12: when she was here, everybody's here to verifying this, we said,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 12: where you saw this?
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: But WO.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 12: Have some kind of movement behind the fence and she
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 12: can at pointed to the north leg.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: Of then.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 11: And I didn't have my favorite comming about it was right.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: That was before she was.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 8: Okay, So now he decided to chase.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, boy, what the hell was that? Jim Mars has
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: some tight pants. Back then when he was pre gray
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: a little bit, he started a little black and his
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: beard and his hair. Yeah, wowser. But again this is
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: Hill adding to her story. Now she saw smoke in
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: the bushes on the grassy knoll, which she never said before.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 5: And she also has said that she saw a man
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 5: running from behind the knoll in her book and I
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 5: believe nineteen eighty two. Yeah, we'll get there, okay.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: But before that, in nineteen and sixty seven, Joe Garrison's
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: people interviewed Jean Hill in Dallas in nineteen sixty seven,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: and this is what she had to say, missus. Jean
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: Hill gave us more trouble than all the other witnesses
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: put together. This is their report about her interview. Okay.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: She consulted with her lawyer before we arrived and had
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: also checked that we were from the DA's office, scrutinized
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: our credentials, and when we spoke to her in her
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: living room, she essentially played games with us. Did not
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: go into any of her testimony at all, and is
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: evidently extremely reluctant to testify. However, she does stress that
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: if she is compelled to testify, that she will not
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: change her story. She will tell the same story that
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: she told the Warren Commission. She did say that her
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: testimony printed in the twenty six volumes is not entirely correct, though,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: and that it was taken down incorrectly or printed incorrectly. However,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: I do have some reservations about this, and in general,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: it's difficult to form a reliable opinion about Missus Hill
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: what kind of person she is and what her game is,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: because she does seem to have some kind of a
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: game Joe. However, essentially she seems to be trying to
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: disengage herself from the assassination subject for reasons that she
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: would not disclose. She did stress that she was in
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: that this was in contrast to her earlier attitude, when
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: she was, as she said, a crusader on the subject
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: and was trying to see something done about it. She said,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: when she heard the news that Garrison investigation has started,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: she was delighted. But something since then, and I don't
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: think it has anything to do with Garrison, but it
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: seems to have something to do with her personal life
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: has made her very sharply change her mind and she
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: doesn't really want to talk to anybody, and told us
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: that she didn't have to talk to us, and so on.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: One of the few things that missus Hill did concede
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: was that she had heard from four to six shots,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: and we showed her a part of the testimony about
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: the direction of the shots in which she told specter
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: that the shots sounded like they had come from the
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: know and she read that and said that that was correct. Therefore,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: I think she can be relied on if she testifies
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: to repeat this, and certainly neither al nor I got
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: the impression that she's the kind of person who would
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: deliberately change her impression. Going over what she said about
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: the shots again, she said there were definitely no less
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: than four and up to six. There are two courses
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: of action which can be taken in regard to Miss Hill.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: Number One, we can ignore the bitch and overlook her
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: as a witness in view of the fact that it's
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: possible that she might give us trouble. Number two, she
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: can be simply subpoenaed, possibly for the day she's due
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: to testify, and at that time, when she's in New Orleans,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: she may be prepared to go over to the ground
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: beforehand with al Oser or some other member of the staff.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: If it looks as though we're going to be short witnesses,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: I would recommend that the best thing to do is
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: to subpoena her. It may be the best thing anyway,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: because although she was difficult, I think as a witness
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: she is quite likely to make a good impression. And
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: when she gets to New Orleans and gets away from
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: her problems in Dallas, I think she will be more
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: open and cooperative. And even then, if she doesn't cooperate
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: before testifying, she needn't be put on the witness stand.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: It's also to be noted that she corroborates Missus Walter's
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: position of there being four shots. Missus Hill's position in
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: Dealey Plaza was on the south side of Elm Street,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: facing the pruder. She was accompanied by Mary Mormon, who
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: took two polaroid photographs of the assassination. Incidentally, she appears
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: to have a certain grudge against Missus Mormon, and she
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: said quote, we were friends until after the warrant commission.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: This is, of course true because Jean Hill started with
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: her stories and Mormon didn't want to play those reindeer games.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 5: Joe very possibly, very possibly, and for.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: Those of you wondering, Jeene Hill has since passed, but
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: Mary Mormon at this moment in time here on October
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: twenty fourth, twenty twenty five, because could be any time.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: But Mary Mormon is still very much alive and very
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: sharp in the head and very nice. She's on Facebook
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: and she does talk to people and answer questions. She's
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: very very sweet lady. So check her out now. Two
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: last things tell a big bad vib sent you. She
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: loves me. Two more real quick things on Jean Hill here, Joe. Now,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: apparently there is another interview of her on TV which
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: you don't have, and I'm trying to figure out when
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: it was. But what it says here is on November
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: twenty second, when JFK was assassinated, the information and news
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: disseminated attained unprecedented heights. Eyewitnesses a newsman seemed to provide
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: the most accurate accounts of what was going on. These
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: included Mary Woodward, Roger Craig, Malcolm Kildoff, Seth Canter, Jane Hill,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: and others gave us immediate impressions that Wohl analyzed give
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: a true portrait of what was really happening that day.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: Allegedly buried with an NBC's video library having to come
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: across an interesting exchange and situation that gets towards some
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: very disturbing circumstances. That day, at two twenty one pm
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: Eastern time, Bill Ryan, still trying to grasp what was happening,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: was suddenly patched into wba APTV in Fort Worth as
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: the nation was still reeling from the news of the
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: president's assassination. Ryan says, now for late details, we go
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: to newsman Tom Whalen at WBAP TV Fort Worth.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: Hy.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: This is Tom Whalen and Fort Worth WBAP newsman Jimmy
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: Darnell in Dallas on the scene of the presidential shooting.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: The shooting which I President Kennedy and Governor Conley were shot,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: has eyewitness interview with a missus Jane Hill. Here's the interview.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: So as this guy Wallin is watching the interview, he
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: makes some very strange gestures after she starts talking. They
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: look a little bit like this joe.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 5: Cutting off the throat.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: So it happens once during the interview. It happens the
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: second time. As Jean Hill says, it was just east
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: of the underpass. Darnell says, uh huh. Hill says, yeah,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: on the south side. Darnell says, did you see did
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: you look up there where the shots came from. He'll says, yes,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: Sir Darnell, could you see anyone Hill? I thought I
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: saw this man running and whaling. The newsman's doing this again,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: right the third time. Whalen's third reaction using the cut
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: signal to emphasize that he wants Jean Hill off the
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: air immediately. The assassination was not even an hour old,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: and Whalon and or NBC seemed to actively be trying
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: to suppress any mention of the shots from the hill.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: Hence from the front, why so early? And you gotta remember, Joe,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: Jimmy Darnell was in Dealey Plaza, Yeah, taking video footage.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: He was there.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's one of the films, one of the films
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 5: that uh littla's trying to get now right, the original.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: Now I cannot find any HSCA testimony for Jeane Hill.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know if they tried to contact her or
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: could not contact her, but it seems to me like
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: after the Garrison fiasco that she was pretty much done
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: with official investigations and wanted to tell her own story.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: Hence she wrote a book, Joe the Last Dissenting Witness. Yes,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: and of this book, producer Craig Anderson has acquired the
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: rights to three books he'll develop as TV movies under
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: an overall deal with Columbia Pictures TV, including the book
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: JFK The Last Dissenting Witness, about a woman, a lonely housewife,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: a substitute teacher who allegedly spotted a second gumman during
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: the assassination of John F. Kennedy. The JFK project is
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: based on a book by Jean Hill, who claimed that
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: she was pressured by the government to remain silent, and
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: Bill Sloan. The movie is in development at ABC, which
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: is also developing the book JFK Reckless Youth as a
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: four hour mini series through the Poloan Company. Anderson also
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: plans to interview or to produce Peter Curse novel American Cassandra,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: a biography of journalist Dorothy Thompson, as a CBS movie
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: to star Nancy McKeon from the show Facts of Life.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: This is Joe's Like What the Hell Is That? And
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: associated with Forest Hills Entertainment. In addition, the producer has
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: secured rights to quote a Jealous Woman by novelist James Kin,
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: who wrote Double Indemnity and the Postman Always Twice Joe
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: last season. Anderson executive produced Hallmark Hall of Fame production
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: Oh Pioneers and produced the telefilm Secrets, both for CBS.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: But there was never a Last Dissenting Witness movie made.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: But the rights to the book were purchased, So she
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: made money anyway off the rights of the movie rights
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: to her book.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 5: I see.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: So when we're talking about books sales, we're talking about
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: movie deals. She made her money. She went on to go.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: She was on Maury Povich for some kind of special
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: in like the late eighties early nineties. I got we
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: might catch some footage of that on Wednesday Night, but
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: it's a little longer on the long side, about ten
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: minutes or so, but might save that for members only, right, Yeah, man, uh,
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: Jeane Hill, it changed a lot. Yeah, And of course
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: I believe her story also changed. You know when when
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: all this Roscoe Hill Ship or Roscoe White Ship was
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: was going coming out in like the late eighties early nineties,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: right around.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 5: The time movie The Badge Man.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know she said that she saw Roscoe
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: White up on the Grassy Knoll.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 5: And the puff of smoke. She seems to like just
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 5: take on a lot of the facts that had come
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 5: out since to corroborate her story.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Trey. If you were here right now, I
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: would kiss you on your tree. I was waiting to
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: Randolph call.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 5: I was waiting for you to finish your uh, your
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 5: your brant there.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 5: Thank but yes, that that is exactly Thank you, Trey.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 5: We have some very smart listeners, that's for sure.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: So got a better brain memory than me, Bro.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: And me.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 5: But but yeah, man, it's and that's why we're really
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 5: going through day of videos and interviews. And speaking of which,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 5: let's check out her babe friend Mary Mormon on Day.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: Of the lovely sexy Mary Mormon. According to Joe, they're
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: both good looking. This is when we played the video
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: of Sally Joe, what are you doing?
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 10: There were many witnesses to the assassination, many of them
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 10: people who would come to town early in the day
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 10: to find a place to watch the president and the
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 10: first lady and I talked to one who saw it
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 10: happen and took a picture.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 13: Picture, and I took the picture, and so having my picture,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 13: I when I took it was at the same instant
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 13: that the president was hit, and that does show in
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 13: my picture.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 8: What does the picture look like?
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 13: Uh, it shows the president he uh slumped and Jackie
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 13: Kennedy was leaning towards him to see. I guess it
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 13: all happened so suddenly. I don't think anyone realized, you know,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 13: what had happened.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 8: Did you realize what had happened when you were the shots?
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 13: Oh no, I didn't. Uh there was oh three or
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 13: four real close together, and it was uh must have
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 13: been the first one that that uh shot him, cause
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 13: that's when I that was time I took the picture.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 13: And during that time after I took the picture and
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 13: the the shops were still being fired. As I tied,
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 13: I bitter bit.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 9: On the ground, cause people lie down on the ground.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 13: Uh, I just know about my failf and the ones
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 13: right close to me, And well, really, I just know
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 13: about my fault.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 8: You did lie out, I did.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 13: We were I was old no more than fifteen foot
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 13: from the car and in line of fire.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 9: Evidently, did missus Kennedy scream on the first shot?
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 13: Uh, I don't know about the first shot, But she
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 13: didn't scream. She says, my god, he's been hit or
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 13: he's been shot, and.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 9: The President fell in Missus Kennedy's arms.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 13: No, I think he just slumped into the seat. She
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 13: jumped up over him, and uh during time when she
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 13: jumped up, of course, the car sped a white real fire.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 9: Now the picture you took, I understand the FBI has
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 9: it now.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 13: Uh, yes, that's try.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 5: I thank you very much.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 10: In addition, there were some eight millimeter color of motion
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 10: pictures taken.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 5: All right, so that is pretty consistent with missus Hills.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 5: Miss Hills. I guess she did have two kids, but
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 5: was not married at the time, as someone said, but
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 5: in the comments, but it's consistent. Interesting, right, it's.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: Really salacious with the Mormon story. It's basically, we were there.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: I think she here's the thing that gets me.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 5: Joe so well, the more the more shots after he
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 5: was hit.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: The thing well, allegedly, if we were to believe the
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: official story that the first shot missed right and hit
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: somewhere in the vicinity of the curb on the south
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: side of Elm Street where all these people are standing,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: or it hit the sewer cu or it went into
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: the grass right there. We've all seen the pictures. We've
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: seen the scrapes on the curve, we've seen the scrape body,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: sewer cover We've seen the guys digging in the grass.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: We heard about the three finger wide trench between the
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: book plush Lady's legs. Now, it seemed to me, you know,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: if you were standing over there in the first shot
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: missed somewhere really close to you, right, maybe you'd notice.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: Maybe you wouldn't. I don't know, you got cameras up
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: to your face. You're Washington president, maybe not paying too
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: much attention, but you know, if it hit like the
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: road or the curve or the sewer cover, or it
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: would probably make some noise, like you hear a shot
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: and then ping or something.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: It just seems crazy to me. They're all in the
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: line of fire and nothing. That's why I think the
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: shot sequence is totally wrong. We've covered that here on
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: the show before. But yeah, I digress.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I completely agree, especially when you take into
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 5: consideration the James.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: Tag, right, I'll take him into consideration.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 5: But well, I mean the the shot that they attributed
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 5: that to. Let me put it that way, Yeah, then
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 5: we get Mormons. Actually, this is let me go back
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 5: Mormons day of APPI David, let's see what she said,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 5: and it's Miss Jean Hill and I were standing on
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 5: the grass by the park on Almond between the underpass
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 5: in the corner of Almond Houston. I had Poor Laura
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 5: camera with me and was intending to take pictures President
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 5: Kennedy in the mortarcade. As the mortarcade started towards me,
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 5: I took two pictures. As President Kennedy was opposite me,
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 5: I took a picture of him. As I snapped the
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 5: picture of Kennedy, I heard a shot ring out. President
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 5: Kennedy kind of slumped over. Then I heard another shot
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 5: ring out, and Miss Kennedy jumped up in the car, saying,
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 5: my god, he has been shot. When I heard these
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 5: shots ring out, hold on, sorry, gotta move my button here.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 5: When I heard these shots ring out, I fell to
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 5: the ground to keep them to keep from being hit myself.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 5: I heard three or four shots in all. After the
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 5: pictures I took were developed, the picture of Kennedy showed
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 5: him slumped over. When the pictures were developed, they came
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 5: out real light. These pictures would have been turned over
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 5: to officers investigating this incident. So all right, that's her DPD.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 5: Let's check her FBI same day. It says twenty three,
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 5: but it was taken on the twenty second Mary Anne
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 5: Mormon blah blah blah blah blah blah, Elman name, blah
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 5: blah blah blah blah. She took this photograph with a
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 5: Polari camera and the photograph showed the police motorcycle escort
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 5: preceding the President's car. In the background of this photograph,
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 5: She said the TSBD was visible, not really. She took
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 5: a second photograph of the president as this automobile passed her,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 5: and just as she snapped this picture, she heard at
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 5: first thought was a firecracker. How many times we heard that?
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 5: And shortly after determined another similar sound, which she later
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 5: determined to have been gunfire. She knows that she heard
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 5: two shots and possibly a third shot. She recalls seeing
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 5: the president sort of jump and start to slump, and
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 5: then blah blah, he's been shot. Miss Mormon states she
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 5: and her companion fell to the ground, but does not
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 5: recall what prompted her to fall unless it was the
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 5: reports and the commotion in the President's car. She must
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 5: have instinctively realized there was a shooting.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: All the same that we've heard.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 5: I'm not going to repeat it. She stated that the
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 5: president as the President's car drove off. She started to
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 5: leave the grassy area and was stopped by a mither
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 5: mister Featherstone, a newspaperman with a k RLD radio which
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 5: you just referred to, I believe, Rob. Miss Mormon advises
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 5: that she saw no one in the area that appear
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 5: to have possibly been the assassin and can furnish no
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 5: additional information. So that is what Mary Mormon says.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's very controversial, so she's pretty much stuck by
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: her story all these years and nothing crazy or nothing
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: too crazy, you know. And like I said, at some
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: point she did have a falling out with Jean Hill
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: over Jean Hills, I guess, wanting her to support her
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: what she was saying when things looked great.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah it was before the book. Yeah, yeah, it was
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 5: before the book for sure.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: But it was before the garrets and investigation. So again
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: not too many years after the assassination. They had a
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: falling out, yeah for sure.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 5: So last I have mister Brem, Mister Charles Brem and.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: CB. This is an interesting one, Rob, Yeah, because he
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: has some complaints about Mark Lane.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 5: Later we'll see, yes, And this is his interview with
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 5: Mark Lane, and it also includes in the middle of it.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 5: His same day testimony. This is courtesy of JFK sixty
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 5: three conspiracy sit Where.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 14: Were you on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 6: I had taken my five year old son downtown to
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 6: see the presidential parade.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 14: This is a picture taken by mister Nicks of the
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 14: limousine at the.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 6: Time the shots were fired.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 14: Do you see yourself and your boy in that picture?
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah? So this is myself and this is my son
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 6: on this frame. Here where they first shot hit the president.
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 6: I would say that the he was possibly thirty feet
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 6: away when the first bullet struck, moved a little closer,
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 6: and was possibly twenty to twenty five feet away when
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 6: the second bullet hit.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 14: Did you see the effect of the bullets upon the president?
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 6: When the second bullet hit, Uh, there was the hair
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 6: seemed to go flying.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 6: It was very definite then that he was struck in
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 6: the head with the second bullet. And Uh, yes, sir,
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 6: I I very definitely saw effects of the second bullet.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 6: Did you see any particles of the President's skull fly
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 6: when the bullet struck him in the head? I saw
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 6: a piece fly over. Oh, in the area of the
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 6: curb where I was standing, and in which direction did
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 6: that fly? It seemed to have have come left him back.
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 5: Back and to the left.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 14: In other words, the skull particle clue to the left
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 14: and to the rear of the presidential limousine.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 5: So you see where where brem is right back and
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 5: to his left right? Yes, not back this way, but
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 5: let's continue.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 14: To the left and to the rear of the presidential
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 14: limit isine.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 6: Sir, whatever it was that I saw did fall both
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 6: in that direction and over into the curve there. You
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 6: were a ranger during the war, Yes, there. I was
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 6: a ranger during the war, took part in the invasion
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 6: of France, and was sought a couple of time. So uh,
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 6: as I say, it's possibly like swimming.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 8: Uh.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 6: I hadn't heard that sound for many a year, But
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 6: you don't forget it once, uh, once you've heard a
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 6: shot rounding coming.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 9: Close to you.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 14: Did you speak with newsmen on November twenty second and
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 14: tell them what you saw, yes.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 6: Sir, and told them simply that there w two shots
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 6: had hit the president and the direction that I had
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 6: thought the bullets had come from.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 14: Did you, at any time that day make any stecand
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 14: which was televised.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 6: Yes, sir, fortunately, I was probably fifteen to twenty feet
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 6: away from the president when it happened.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: Hills, exactly what you thought there happened, Uh huh.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 6: Yeah. He was coming down the street and my five
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 6: year old boy and myself were by ourselves on the
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 6: grass there on Palmer Street, and I asked Joe to
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 6: waved to him, and Joe waved, and I waved in
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 6: the MI men.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 9: That's all right, sir you.
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 6: Because he was waving back.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 5: He was he was.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 6: The shot rang out and he slumped down in the seat,
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 6: and his wife reached up toward him, and he was
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 6: slumping down in the second shot went off and just
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 6: knocked him down from the seat. I'm positive and it
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 6: hit him. I hope it didn't, but I'm positive that
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 6: it hit him, and and he went all the way
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 6: down in the car. Then they speed it up, and
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 6: I didn't know what was going on, so I just
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 6: grabbed a boy and fell on him. And I hope
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 6: that there wasn't a maniac around me. I'm r all right,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 6: I can't help you more, but I don't forget.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 14: Did you make a statement to the Dallas Sheriff's Office.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, I did.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 14: How long did you remain in the Dallas Sheriff's office
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 14: that day?
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 6: I would say about three hours to four hours?
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 5: Were you at I want to stop there, mister Rob,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 5: because as we did give some credit for DPD doing
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 5: some things right. There is no Brem document day of
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 5: statement anywhere. In fact, the only references from a nineteen
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 5: sixty six Playboy article that Mark Lane wrote, which I
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 5: do have a slide of that. Brem later claimed that Lane,
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 5: you know, twisted his comments type of thing. So interesting, right,
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 5: the dude, and listen, I said this earlier. If I'm
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 5: going to trust an army ranger who fought or parachuted
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 5: into France in Germany during World War Two or these
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 5: two hot girls, Brem would probably be the one I
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 5: would take the most serious. And I can't find it.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: Did you find his Warren Commission testimony?
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 5: No? Because he was not called to the Warren Commission testimony?
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: Sir, No, Well, you would have made a fantastic witness
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: for the Warren Commission. I don't know why he wasn't called.
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 5: I don't know either, sir. He would I mean, he
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 5: think they called everyone and their mother. We do, however,
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 5: have November twenty fifth, nineteen sixty three FBI report on
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 5: brem I believe it was, Do I have it here?
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 5: Taken on twenty fourth? Okay, so Saturday noise? Yeah yeah, right, convenient?
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 5: Everyone else taken a day of him. Let's wait a day, right,
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 5: He and his five year old son went downtown.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: We all know this.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 5: After the President's automobile round of the corner to Houston Street,
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 5: he picked up his five year old son and ran
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 5: across the grass from Main Street over to the downhill
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 5: curved portion of Elm Street, which leads from Houston Street
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 5: to the Stemens Expressway. AKA. Seems like it's saying he's
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 5: running towards noel Am I wrong here?
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: M kind of I'm wrong? No, that kind of sounds like.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, okay. I just want to make sure he
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 5: and his stuns stood right at the curb on the grass.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 5: We know that as the car took a wide swing.
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 5: The picture he showed at the beginning showed him after
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 5: he had covered his son, allegedly when the President's automobile
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 5: was very close to him and he could see the
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 5: President's face for a while. The President was seated leaning
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 5: forward when he was stiffened, perceptual, perceptually, bro this this
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 5: gut's in my head and I just perceptibly perceptibly. Yes
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 5: it was.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: It's definitely spelled wrong. It should be.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 5: But he was Yes, he was personal. Yeah, he was perceptive.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: Ah, he was visibly stiffened.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 5: If he was looking at uh at Hill and Mormon,
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 5: I wouldn't blame him. Uh he was gonna near them.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 5: According to Bred, the president seemed to stiffened. I didn't
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 5: get that part. And come on, Brem said, when the
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 5: president was hit by the second shot, he can noticed
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 5: the president's hair fly up. So here you have the
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 5: armored ranger saying it was the second shot that actually
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 5: was the headshot, and then roll over to a side
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 5: as mister Kennedy, as missus Kennedy was apparently pulling him
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 5: in that direction. Brem said that a third shot followed
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 5: and that all three shots were relatively close together. Brem
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 5: stated that he was in the military service and he
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 5: had experienced with bolt action rifles, which he would have,
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 5: and he expressed his opinion that the three shots were
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 5: fired just about as quickly as an individual can maneuver
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 5: a bolt action rifle, take aim, and fire three shots.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: Never heard of those that FBI agents before. They must
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: have sent this Kufus the crew over to interview him.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 5: You got Willie Johnson bro I have been either. You
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 5: know what, It's so funny you mentioned that. When I
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 5: clipped this document, I thought the same thing in my head.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 5: I said, I haven't heard of these guys before, and
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 5: I just like, yeah, that's really funny you mentioned it.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 5: He definitely knew that the president had been shot, recalled
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 5: having seen blood on the President's face. He also stated
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 5: it seemed quite apparent to him that the shots came
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 5: from one of two buildings back at the corner of
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 5: Elmn Houston Streets. Immediately after the third shot rang out,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 5: Brown pushed his son down on the grass and all that.
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 5: Brem expressed his opinion that between the first and third shots,
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 5: the president car only seemed to move some ten to
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 5: twelve feet almost came to a halt after the first shot,
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 5: but of this he is not concerned. After the third shot,
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 5: the car in which the President was riding increased its speed.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 5: As soon as the President's car went on its way,
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 5: the numerous reporters and police officers came running down the
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 5: hill to the general area where he was standing, and
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 5: many of them gathered around him and began asking him questions.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 5: He estimated that he was detained at the police department
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 5: for a period of two hours.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: Right, might have.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 5: Gotten an hour or two wrong before he was finally
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 5: permitted to leave. So where is Charles Brem's same day Affidavid,
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 5: which we have been able to pull up almost every witnesses, Rob.
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it exists or it doesn't exist anymore.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So I'm going to end with this, Rob. It
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 5: definitely doesn't exist anymore. I'm going to end with this.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 5: And I think this is a couple of years later
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 5: and this is from the ja Ka assassination for a
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 5: YouTube page where he completely changes his story kind of
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 5: or pushes back on kind of what Mark Lane said.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 15: Some critics of the war and report have taken your
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 15: testimony or interviews with you to indicate that you thought
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 15: the shots.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 5: Came from behind the fence over there.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: What about that?
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 6: Well, So it was not a number of critics, It
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 6: was one critic, Mark Lane, who takes very great liberties
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 6: with adding to my quotation, I never said that any
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 6: shots came from here, like I was quoted by mister Lane.
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 6: Mister Lane would like me to have positively identified the
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 6: what I saw fly over here a skull, although I
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 6: told him I could not.
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 5: I did not examp.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 6: I thought it was, but I could not. So he
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 6: has added his interpretations to what I said. And consequently
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 6: that's where the story comes from. That I said that
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 6: the shots come from up there. No shots came from
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 6: up there at any time during the whole fiasco that afternoon.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 5: Sounds to me, Rob like someone got to him very
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 5: early on.
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: Mark Lane with the pliers in the study.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but the he said he spent hours at DPD
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 5: and where is it?
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: We don't know. And like I said, he's I mean,
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think how he can accuse Mark Lane of
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: twisting his words when Mark Lane had him on video
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: saying everything. Now, maybe some of them was edited, but
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: at no point during that Mark Lane interview from the
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: Rush to Judgment did he say that he thought the
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: shots came from the know he was. He always said
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: they thought they came from the building, you know, So
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know what he's talking about there.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 5: It's it's weird, man, It is weird.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: Changes history in his book, but yeah, it's weird.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And like we've talked about, he would have been
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 5: the most reliable witness out of the three we have
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 5: discussed tonight. On the other side of the street, right and.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: You look at the Luga asked, how did so many
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: people get very quickly from Maine in Houston to the
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: opposing side of the grass. You know they ran you look, yeah,
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: what if you've ever been to Daily Plaza, it really
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: is not that big. It looks big in the movies
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: and pictures, but in reality it's not that big. You
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: could probably run from Main Street or Houston Street. You
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: can probably run from Houston Street to where these people
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: were standing on Elm probably in about fifteen seconds, ten
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: fifteen seconds if you're running. I mean, it really wasn't
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: that far. It just it looks Dealer Place looks so
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: much bigger than it really is. I mean, if you
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: ever go there, you'd be like, holy shit, this is
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: pretty small.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 5: It is you know, yeah, yeah, you look behind the
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 5: the corner of the fence. It's it's it's a very easy,
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 5: easy shot, even moving targets. So Rob, I have a
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 5: bunch of pinned comments I've been wanting to get to.
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 5: We'll get to them then, damn it all right, Peaches.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 5: This is kind of giving me a little bit of
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 5: a hard time, but I still love your peachas one
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 5: day Joe will learn that Thanksgiving is on a Thursday. No,
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 5: that's not what happened. There was a typo of one
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 5: day you leave Van alone. There was a typo of
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 5: one day and I J I highlighted a comment of
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 5: of mister Tray and we determined it was not. I
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 5: do know it is on a Thursday. He probably knows
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 5: a few things about gunfire, yeah, yeah, and he's he's
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 5: talking about um yeah. Also very very positive and consistent
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 5: that the second shot was the headshot. So, like I said,
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 5: the whole sequence is a mess. I've read mister Jack Taylor,
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 5: I've read Jean Hill's book. Interesting, if even half of
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 5: it is true with manipulation after the assassination. Yeah, so
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 5: I listen to another JFK podcast that read the first
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 5: chapter of it, and it is like, let's exaggerate everything.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 5: It's like as the car turned, my heart beat beat
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 5: it faster.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 2: And you know what I mean, Like it's and I
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: don't know if half of it's true.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and then that's why we're not We're only going
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 5: through first day statements here, our early statements. Rangers lead
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 5: the way all the way. I think that's the term
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 5: related relating to Bremuk. Yeah, I don't buy anything, moves heaven.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 5: How are you? I don't buy anything? Jean Hill says
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 5: she changed her story multiple times over the years. Yes,
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 5: the valid argument that this was like an hour or
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 5: two ago, an hour and a half ago.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: Uh, still a valid argument, yea.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 5: And yeah you're right. Even Mary said Gene was nuts.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I want to say hi to a slacker Dan
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 5: coming in? What's up, buddy?
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: What's a s D?
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 5: Probably one shot in an echo, I mean, there definitely
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 5: was the echo effect.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: But everybody says the first shot sounded like a firecracker,
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: like a pussy shot.
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 5: You know, like and almost everyone said the second and
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 5: third shot were much closer together than the first shot,
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 5: which would which would make a bolt action rifle. Third
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 5: shot being some perfect headshot by someone who was a
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 5: fucking shitty shooter. Not likely. Uh, Roger said, what up?
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 5: He popped in earlier?
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: I started, Uh, hal, how are you, sir? Else our
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: very own music man still waiting on the new theme song, Sir,
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: I'm kidding it's your leisure.
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 5: Roger Umbrella Man, Dark complexed Man was twenty feet at
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 5: most from the headshot. He's probably even closer.
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 2: He was in the street, bro, Yeah, but no one
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: is out of Elm Street standing in the street. Yeah
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: where maybe we're two.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 12: But.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean he would know he's Umbrella Man. Who
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 5: was next Dark complexed Man? Even though Jim Featherstone is
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 5: spotted in w FA footage talking to Dark complexed Man. Yep, Nope, nope,
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 5: no same day statement from Dark complexive Man, that is
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 5: for sure.
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: It is don't know who he is, much like.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 5: It is weird how that works. Huh my point exactly.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 5: I don't know exactly why I start that, but I
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 5: agree with you. Uh tiny Ockham's razor is Jeane Hill
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 5: just make shit up? Mary said as much about her. Well, yeah,
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 5: I mean listen their same day statements like line up ish,
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 5: you know what I mean. And that's why we're not
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 5: going into the book or anything like that, because you
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 5: know our rule here, we focus on first day or
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 5: earliest statements or reports. Jack Taylor Jean was thirty two
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 5: in single rare at that time. Wonder what the heck
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 5: was wrong with her?
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: I can't turn into a Housewaite.
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 5: I could have fixed her, Rob, I could have fixed her,
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 5: and I think we could have fixed her. Lucky, Lucky.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 5: My girlfriend is out to dinner right now. A graduate
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 5: of the Skaffo's Academy. Again, I started this while ago,
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 5: but I'm sure it was Genell somewhat or.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 6: You or me.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: He's not only he's not only a graduate, he's the
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 2: president of this academy.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, And and Tony said, Army rangers lead the way.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 5: And I already finished your statement, because that's what they say.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 5: You see that in black Hawk Down, for example. I'm
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 5: sure the Army paid him a visit, and it sure
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 5: seems like it something changed. Why isn't his if he
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 5: spent three hours listen. He doesn't seem like a liar
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 5: to me, Rob, does he seem to you?
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 3: No?
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: He seems very fixated on his story though, and very
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: traumatized by what he saw, right.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 4: No.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 5: The day of interview, he's like almost crying. He's like,
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 5: I can't talk about this anymore. He just saw it. Yeah,
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 5: the president get his head blown off fucking fifteen feet away.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 2: From him, five year old kid freaking thinking.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 5: But he said he was at the station for four
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 5: hours and then two hours and where is the same
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 5: day statement? Where is it? Where's you know? Dark complexed man?
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 5: Everyone else has statements. It seems like they excluded things.
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 5: Might not have even been the DBD, could have been
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 5: an FBI. Who the hell knows. So as usual, I
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 5: hope we didn't confuse you more. We did, but we
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 5: thought it'd be interesting to go through those three witnesses.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: In their front state. Four actually not just three. Okay,
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: since he was there too, I figured I would see
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: what I could find out about what he said. So
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: let's hear from Mike Algins. James Ike Algins, let's hear
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: from him on this little here. Video from David von
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: Penis's channel.
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 10: Associated Press photographer James Alkin was actually looking toward the
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 10: book depository as.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 15: I was getting ready to make some pictures. Why I
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 15: heard this noise. I thought it was a firecracker explosion.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 15: I just went ahead and made the picture which shows
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 15: the president right after he was struck by a bullet,
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 15: struck in the neck the first shot. And this was
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 15: a picture that the Warren report later fixed as uh
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 15: being made two seconds after the shot was fired. And
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 15: as they got in close to me, and I was
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 15: prepared to make the picture. I had my camera almost
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 15: at eye level. That's when the President was shot in
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 15: the head.
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 14: And uh, I do know that the.
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 15: President was still in an upright position, tilted favoring Missus Kennedy.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 15: And at the time that he was struck by this
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 15: blow to the head, it was so obvious that it
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 15: came from behind. It had to come from behind, because
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 15: it caused him to bolt forward, dislodging him from this
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 15: depression in the seat cushion and already favoring Mssus Kennedy.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 15: He automatically fell in that direction. The uh, one thing
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 15: that did uh uh seemed to be a little bit strange.
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 15: Immediately after the car proceeded on to Parkland Hospital, men
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 15: withdrawn guns ran up the terrace of this plaza up
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 15: into what is considered to be and referred to as
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 15: the Knowle area, and thinking that they had the assassin
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 15: cornered up in this nole area. And it seemed rather strange,
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 15: as I say, because knowing that the shot came from behind,
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 15: this fella had to really move in order to get
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 15: over into the Knowle area.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 10: You uh, have no thoughts about another assassin behind the
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 10: fence or.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 6: On the know.
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 15: I've had a lot of people to contact me and
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 15: that uh they felt there was another person involved in
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 15: trying to get me to uh verify either photographs they
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 15: had or to uh work out some information they felt
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 15: they had come across to uh substantiate the evidence of
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 15: uh substantiate the fact that there was another assassin. But
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 15: at no time as any of this evidence proved to
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 15: me beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 15: another assassin.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 5: Wow, I never knew Awkin's had that opinion.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's funny that he saw what Tom I
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: guess what Dan rather saw and nobody else saw, you know,
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: of the president going forward when he was hit from behind,
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: because he said it takes it very matter of factly.
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: I know that he was shot from behind. Blah blah blah.
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 2: So very interesting testimony for mister Alchins, I believe, right, fascinating.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 5: Thank you for that.
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: Well that's not all, but that's what he said years later.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: But let's go back in time a little bit.
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he looked he looked older there.
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was from the early seven so he's about
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: ten years younger at the time of the assassination. But
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: of course his aultion in sixth photo that they showed here,
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: you know, uh, garnered him a lot of attention, like
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: it's one of those pulletser Worthy or whatever photography award
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: there is, you know, yeah, yeah, because of what it
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: captures in the moment in time and the the history
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 5: Is it a pulitzer?
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: Is it a Pulitzer? I don't know, correct us Google
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: a Pulitzer prize.
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 5: I think that's I think that's an article, article, it's
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 5: something else.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: Why don't you ask?
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 5: I'm just gonna ask.
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 2: Now again. Much like Charles brimm Joe, there was no
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: first day affid David from James ike Alcins, which is
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: odd to me because he took a couple iconic pictures
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: here in Deey Plaza. He's clearly almost beside the limousine
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 2: at the time of the shots. He's looking through his viewfinder.
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: He misses the mark on the head shot for whatever reason,
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 2: whether the shots startled him and or he just couldn't
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 2: get it up quick enough, that's what she said. I
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: don't know, but yeah, no statement. And he was also
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 2: not called immediately before the Warren Commission, and he wasn't
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 2: slated to be called before the Warren Commission, but critics
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: started pointing out that this is odd. You know, why
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: no first day testimony and why are they not interviewing
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: this guy for the Warrant Commission? So on May twenty fifth,
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 2: sixty four, a Chicago newspaper called The Chicago American put
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: out something in its column The Daily Diary, saying, isn't
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: it odd that jw Algins, a veteran Associated Press photographer
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: in Dallas, who took a picture of the Kennedy assassination,
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 2: one of the witnesses close enough to see the president
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 2: shot and be able to describe second by second what happened,
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: has not been questioned either by the Dallas Police, the FBI,
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 2: or the Warrant Commission. Isn't that interesting? Joe? Yeah? Now,
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 2: contreire Montfrere. They did talk to Ike autions, but it
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: wasn't about what he saw. It was about his fucking
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: Fohe to graph that he took me right, because that's
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 2: more important than asking the man who actually took the
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 2: photo was standing there in Daily Plaza confetuary from the
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: limousine at the time of the shot headshot, and what.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 5: Did they bury the report in the index somewhere.
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 2: Well. J Edgar Hoover ended up writing a letter Jayleen
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 2: Rank because apparently this came to the attention of Jaega,
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 2: who it says, dear mister rankin reference is made to
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: your letter dated February twenty four. In my letter dated
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: March ninth, relating to information furnished by mister Jones Harris
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: of New York involving mister Billy Nolan Love Ladies identification
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 2: in a photograph taken by an Associated Press photographer. And
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 2: closed are two copies of an article which appeared in
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: the Magazine section of the May twenty fourth, sixty four
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 2: issue of the New York Tribune. This article is written
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 2: by doctor or mister dom Bonafodi, relates to the photograph
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 2: involving love Lady. It would appear from the above article
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 2: that Algin's the Associated Press photographer, is the individual who
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 2: took the picture in question, and efforts are being made
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 2: to locate and interview him. When the results of this
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 2: interview are available, you will be appropriately advised. The enclosed
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 2: article is furnished in view of your prior interest in
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 2: mister Jones Harris, Sincerely, Yours, Jay Edgett Now, the article
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: that was written in the New York newspaper by Dom
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: Benefiti is called the Picture with a Life of its
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 2: Own and it's all about the Alcin six and the
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: apparent confusion and assertion that critics were saying that it
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 2: captured the likeness of Lee Harvey Oswald in the doorway
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 2: of this Goo book depository at the time of the shots,
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 2: when in fact it was clearly really love ladies. But again,
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 2: people back then they went with what they thought. You know,
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: they didn't have They weren't pouring over this thing with microscopes.
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 2: You know, Hey, damn, it looks like Oswall. It could
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 2: be Oswald. Let's run with it, right, So for anyone
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 2: interested in that article, you should look it up. It's
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 2: six pages long here, so I'm not going to read it.
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 2: But again, it was brought to the attention of the FBI,
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: who then brought it to the attention of the Warrant Commission,
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: and in turn they finally in June of sixty four,
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 2: sent the FBI to interview Ike Autions in Dallas. And
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 2: here's what that says.
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 5: June of sixty four.
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see, he works for the Associated Press at
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 2: the Dallas News building in Dallas, Texas for the past
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 2: twenty six years. Alcins was born April twenty eighth, nineteen nineteen,
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 2: at Dallas, Texas. Alcins advised and on November twenty second,
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 2: he was assigned by the ap to take up a
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 2: position along the motor cade route for the purpose of
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 2: obtaining pictures of the President and the motorcade. Aucans related
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 2: that he left his office at eleven fifteen am and
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 2: proceeded to the Triple Overpass area of Elman Main Streets,
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: where he intended to take his pictures from. He said
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 2: he arrived there about eleven twenty five and was advised
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 2: by uniformed police officers there that even though he was
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 2: he had press kid credentials, sorry he would not be
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 2: permitted to take photographs from up on the Triple Overpass.
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: Alcins stated he then went to the intersection of Maine
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: in Houston, arriving there at approximately eleven forty. He said
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 2: he remained at this location until the motorcate arrived. Just
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 2: before the limo passed. Autrin stated he stationed himself at
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 2: the intersection on the southwest side and took a picture
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 2: of President and Missus Kennedy as their limousine turned on
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 2: to Houston, and then of course he ran diagonally northwest
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: downhill over the grassy area that separates Maine and Elm
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 2: and stopped on the south side of Elm Street, across
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: the street from the stairs leading down from the Colonnade
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: located on the north side of Elm Street, to get
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: in front of the motorcade again. So again, Daley Plaza
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: is so small that he took pictures of the motorcade
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 2: as it passed him turning from Maine to onto Houston,
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 2: and then he ran across the grass over to Elm
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: before the limousine had went the rest of the way
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 2: up Houston and turned on Elm and started coming down Elm.
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 2: So he beat the limousine over to Elm Street, right.
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it probably ran diagonally, right.
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Thank you Trey for clarifying that a pulitzer could
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 2: be awarded in twenty three different categories, including photography. So
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 2: there you go. Thank you Trey, Thank you for vindicating me.
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 2: So just before the limousine passed, Altrin said that he
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 2: had stationed himself in the intersection of the southwest side
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 2: and took a picture. Alcin's advised then ran diagonally. Blah
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: Blah Blah stated it was from this position that he
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 2: took pictures of the president and motorcade scene. He said,
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 2: this picture also depicts an individual standing in the doorway
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 2: that resembles Lee Harvey Oswald. Altrins related that he was
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 2: standing about thirty feet from the president when he took
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 2: this photograph. He recalled that at about the instant he
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 2: snapped the picture, he heard a burst of noises which
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 2: he thought was fires. He advised, he does not know
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 2: how many of these reports he heard, since they had
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 2: no significance to him at the time. He was not
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 2: he was unaware of what was happening. After taking the
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 2: above photograph, Altrin stated that he then turned his film
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 2: from in his camera, adjusted the focus to fifteen feet,
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 2: and was raising his camera again to eye level when
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 2: he heard another report, which he recognized as a gunshot.
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 2: So no more firecracker noise. Now he realizes, a shit,
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: this is a gunshot, he said. The bullet struck Kennedy
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 2: on the right side of his head, and the impact
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 2: knocked the president forward. Alton stated pieces of flesh, blood,
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 2: and bone appeared to fly from the right side of
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 2: the President's head and pass in front of Missus Kennedy
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 2: to the left of the limousine. Altrin stated missus Kennedy
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 2: grabbed the president and Altrin's heard her scream oh no,
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 2: as the President slumped over into her lap. Altrin said
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 2: he also observed blood on the left side of the
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 2: President's head and face. Alten stated he was staring in
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 2: utter disbelief at what had just happened and was so
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 2: aghast that he froze and did not snap the picture
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 2: of the Alter's shot. Altyn's advised he was about fifteen
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 2: feet from the president at this time. He was sure
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 2: the shot came from somewhere behind the president, and it
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 2: is positive that this was the last shot fired. He
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 2: said the President's car was proceeding in about ten miles
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 2: an hour at this time. He advised that he did
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 2: not know Conley had been shot at the time, as
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 2: his attention had been focused on the president. Altrin stated
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 2: the driver of the limo apparently realized what had happened
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 2: and sped up toward the Stemens Freeway. At this point,
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 2: Autn's advised he took a photograph which depicted a Secret
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 2: Service man standing on the back of the limb left side,
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 2: assisting Missus Kennedy back to her seat. Altrin stated the
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 2: whole area seemed to be utter confusion. Police came from
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 2: everywhere as the President's car disappeared from sight. Autin's advised
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 2: that as the President's car disappeared, he observed some Secret
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 2: Service agents and police withdrawn guns on the north side
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: of Elm Street, running in the direction of the top
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 2: of the Triple Overpass. So again, there were no Secret
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: Service agents on the ground in Dalley Plaza immediately after
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 2: the shot, So I don't know what made autionins think
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 2: that they were Secret Service agents.
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 2: After proceeding across Elm Street and up towards the overpass,
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 2: Altron stated that he saw here he met the police
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 2: officer's returning at this juncture. Autin's advised he then ran
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 2: to a nearby telephone and informed his office that the
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 2: president had been shot and they witnessed it. He then
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 2: sprinted to his office in the Dallas News Building with
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 2: the pictures he'd taken, and Autin stated the pictures showing
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 2: the President slumping in his seat was Missus Kennedy bending
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 2: over him. Moved onto the Associated Press wire photo network
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 2: at twelve fifty seven PM, which was seventeen minutes after
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 2: the first news bulletin was sent out by the Associated
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 2: Press of the shooting. Ausin's advised the above three pictures
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 2: he took were all turned into the AP and received
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 2: wide publication and circulation both in the US and abroad.
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 2: Austin said he used a thirty five millimeter Nicarex camera
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 2: with one hundred and five millimeter lens telephoto. He said
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 2: the camera was loaded with the Eastman Kodak Triax film.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: Regarding the article which appeared in the magazine, section written
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 2: by Don Benafidi captioned the picture with a life of
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: its own, Altins related the following On May eleventh, while
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: he was at his residence, he received a phone call
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 2: from an individual who identified himself as On Benefite. He
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 2: said he was staying at the Adolphus In Room twelve
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 2: ten and was in Dallas doing his story on the
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 2: AP photograph taken by Alcin's wherein it appeared that an
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 2: individual in the doorway of the depository resembled Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 2: Altrin said, Bonafidee informed him that he had been to
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 2: Washington and to the President's Commission, and had seen a
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 2: blown up shot of the picture. Altin stated at Benefitede
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 2: asked him a number of questions about the picture, about
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 2: his position at the time he took the photo, and
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 2: what he witnessed of the assassination. Austin said he answered
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 2: his questions for bona fide and he said bonafide also
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 2: asked him a number of questions about how the people
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 2: of Dallas felt about the assassination of President Kennedy in
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 2: Dallas and what effect the assassination would have on the
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 2: city itself. Altin stayed that on May fourteenth, Bonafidee again
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 2: telephoned him at his residence and went over some of
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 2: the questions he had previously asked, in addition to asking
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 2: him other questions. Altin stated that he did not know
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 2: and he did not have any contact with Bonafidee prior
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 2: to May eleventh, and none subsequent to May fourteenth. He
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 2: stated that benefide had told him that if he were
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 2: going to quote him directly, that he would call and
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 2: clear any quotes with au Autionin said he never received
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 2: any call in which he cleared any quotes, so then
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 2: you know Autionin's advisor. On May twenty first, at about
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 2: eleven thirty pm, he received a phone called his residence,
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 2: it's very late, eleven thirty pm from an individual who
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 2: identified himself as John Gold of the quote London Evening News.
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 2: And then he says he presumed that Gold was telephoning
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 2: from New York City. Now why he presumed that, I
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 2: don't know. But what's interesting, Joe, is that the name
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 2: John Gold was used as a pseudonym for Fred Christman
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 2: when he was on the Tacoma radio show. He hosted
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 2: a radio show at Tacoma under the pseudonym John Gold,
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 2: Fred Lee Cristman did Wild Wow, and.
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 5: He said Gold.
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 2: Informed him that Bonafiedi had written an article and that
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: it was going to appear in the Magazine section of
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 2: the New York Herald Tribune. On May twenty fourth, Altin
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 2: stated that he knew the article written would be published,
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 2: but said this was the first info he had received
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 2: as to when the article would be published. And he
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 2: goes on to say he's never had any contact with Jones, Harris, Arnold,
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 2: crack Hour, or Bill Beckman. These are obviously early assassination buffs.
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 2: All mentioned of article by bonafide. Alton stated he does
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 2: not know to his knowledge and never had any contact
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 2: with either Lee Harvey Oswald or Jack Ruby. So then
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 2: in July of nineteen sixty four, he gets finally gets
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 2: a letter from the Warrant Commission and ask him to
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 2: testify before them on July sixteenth, nineteen sixty four.
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 5: Okay, let me guess in Dallas, Joseph Ball, Uh was it?
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 5: I don't know, I was just a random guess. Nope, Rankin,
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 5: Oh that's important then if Frankin's doing it.
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So then they send the FBI out again to
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 2: interview Ike auctions on June third, nineteen sixty four, to
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 2: which he maintains his previous story pretty much verbatim. The
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 2: only change here he's stating that he advised that he
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 2: does not know how many of the reports that he heard,
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 2: since they had no significance to him at the time
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 2: and he was unaware of what was happening, and he
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 2: doesn't know how many shots were shoot were fired, And
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 2: he's basically just telling them what he did and saw. Again,
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 2: briefly and interestingly enough, Joe, we have two more scaffus,
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 2: the FBI agents here they sent to interview this guy
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 2: named Raymond Switzer and Eugene petrakis special agents of the
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: FB and the Eye.
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 5: Interesting.
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, two more scaffoos is that we never heard of.
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 5: And I did do a quick search and stuff on
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 5: the screen now of Awkins in the DPD archives that
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 5: we find nothing, nothing, not one result.
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: Yep, told you just so.
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 5: And not someone who was not known to have been there, right.
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's literally there making falls. I'm surprised
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 2: you didn't run run across the street with all the
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 2: other guys and take pictures of the newman.
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah, or even better, went further up than all. Got
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 5: some good pictures there. Yeah, and yeah, I mean listen
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 5: the few people who were interviewed or even found dru
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 5: COMPLEXI man, umbrella man, but bush a lady, all major suspects.
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 5: And what about the letter men, jacket teenagers? Do you
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 5: know about these?
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah? They were kind of hanging out up in the
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 2: uh yeah, on the opposite side of the deal from
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 2: Zaprud the what do you call it the monument back there? Yeah, yeah,
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 2: they were like on the other side of its kind
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 2: of U shaped the prus all the way on the
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 2: left on the ballast drive there sticking yeah, okay, yeah,
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 2: is in these letterman jackets it looks like rams horns
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 2: like Marione and White or something. They turned out to
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 2: be skipping school from a local high school there in Dallas,
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 2: and uh yeah, they've been identified. Nothing. Nothing very conspiratorial
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 2: there with those kids. Again, they were high school kids
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: skipping school.
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, dark complective man definitely a suspect. Umbrella Man,
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 5: definitely a suspect. When we talk about possibly the reference
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 5: to umbrella coverage that was promised over the Bay of Pigs,
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 5: uh invasion Babushka lady, I don't know. I don't know
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 5: how suspicious she could be.
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 2: I think she was suspicious that she never came forward. Yeah,
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 2: I mean because it ain't Beverly Oliver.
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 5: No. But but in terms of like maybe not wanting
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 5: to get into drama or you know, we talked about
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 5: how she allegedly did turn in her film and it
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 5: was all shitty and it was blurred. But if she
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 5: would have kept it, or if her family kept it,
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 5: it could be fixed today with Ai and we all
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 5: we went through that when we went through the Babushka segment.
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 5: But it's more interesting to me that the people that
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 5: don't have day of AFFI David's could have really interesting
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 5: things to say, right like brem.
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 2: Like alkin, did the Newmans even have first day?
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 5: Have a day? I mean the first day interview everywhere,
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 5: I guess.
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they weren't called before the warning commission.
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 5: Let me chuck, let me chuck saw.
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just a running theme that you know,
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 2: it's odd that the people closest to the limousine at
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 2: the time of the assassination, we're not interviewed by by
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 2: the Dallas police or sheriffs or called before the Warren Commission.
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 2: What does that tell you? Yeah?
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 5: Now, uh, we have a first day half a David
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 5: for Newman.
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, they just were not called before the
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 2: Warrant commission.
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 5: It's weird so many people so close by that are
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 5: not like but Bush a good lady, but like, you
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 5: can't call her to the war Commission. You don't know
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 5: who she is.
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 2: And again, I'm not saying these people are the best witnesses.
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 2: I think in Bill Newman's interview on TV, he's like
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 2: President Kennedy suits was shot shot in the back and
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 2: he sits straight up in the limousine.
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 5: And yeah, yeah, I mean, which, of course do yeah,
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 5: I mean witness testimony, as we talked about earlier, is
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 5: witness testimony. It has to be taken with a grain
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 5: of salt, and you have to evaluate every witness. And
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 5: I I remember asking Larry Hancock this when before we
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 5: did our Marine episode. When I got you sent me
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 5: a list of one hundred, How do you pick which
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 5: ones are credible or not? He goes, well, you just
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 5: gotta take it case by case, you know.
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 2: That's why we look at try to look at as
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 2: many as possible who are in the same vicinity, you know,
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 2: who were kind of had the same which you might
• 2:19:27
  Speaker 2: call it a viewpoint, you know, and when you compare
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 2: and contrast them all, it seems like everybody saw something different.
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 2: But you got to remember again, eyewitnesses are not that
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 2: credible because given the craziness of the situation, the fact
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 2: that you're not anticipating what's about ready to happen, the
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 2: fact that you're not ready to cope with what's about
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 2: ready to happen, the fact that people cope differently in
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 2: these situations, and it's just a whole mess.
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 2: They do these very interesting eyewitness experiments all the time,
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 2: where you know they'll unexpectedly do something in a room
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 2: full of people, like somebody will bust in with a
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 2: ski mask and take somebody's wallet, take the teacher's wallet,
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 2: right and ring back. Yeah, And they ask, you know,
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 2: ask the class like, okay, describe what just happened. Yeah,
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 2: describe what he was wearing, describe what he said. And
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 2: you know, twenty different people will see twenty different things
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 2: and insane it.
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 5: Yes, I know exactly what experiment you are referring to. Uh,
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 5: it's crazy, So you have to take it with a
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 5: grain of salt. You have to try to corroborate it,
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 5: which is why we played all three of the people
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 5: on that we know of on that side, or four actually, Uh,
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 5: first day Affi Davids keep FBI and interviews, and we
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 5: let these smart listeners and watchers of this show make
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 5: up their own mind per us.
• 2:21:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, we're not telling you to believe any of these
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 2: people individually. Take it for what it's worth. You know,
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 2: use your own good judgment when evaluating eyewitness testimony and
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 2: come to your own conclusions, folks, because you know, when
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 2: when you weigh these things out between each other, not
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 2: much makes sense. And again I feel like we leave
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 2: you confused more confused when we first started here. That
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 2: is the way is use is at some point.
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 5: You know, yes, south to west, says last last comment.
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 5: It's absolutely unbelievable that not every single person in the
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 5: plaza was not identified. I mean, there's not really precedent
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 5: for this. You have the mortar Kaid speeding away, you
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 5: have cops running around, Joe Smith crossing the middle, you know,
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 5: cops running up the knoll. It's not surprising that a
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 5: couple people slipped away. And yes, sixty two, almost three
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 5: years later. I guess it looks us. You can make
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 5: it look sus, but I'm actually.
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 2: It's a crime scene. There's way too many people that
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 2: outweigh the number of cops that were there immediately. Yeah,
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 2: and again, the cops you're focused on trying to catch
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 2: a shooter, shut down a building, you know, not necessarily
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 2: talk to witnesses. It's the news people that we're trying
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 2: to grab witnesses and take them down.
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 5: To that that's where we get most of our evidence from.
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 5: So it's not like super suss that a few people
• 2:22:56
  Speaker 5: were able to slip away. I mean, but bush Ga
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 5: lady could have just been some like forty year old
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 5: lady like that.
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was there. I wouldn't have said nothing to nobody,
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 2: and I probably would have just left because you know, yeah,
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 2: I mean you might think you have nothing to add,
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 2: you know, but you might have saw something that's important.
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 2: But maybe in your mind you might think, Okay, well
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 2: that's over, and do I really want to spend the
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 2: next three hours and the fucking Sheriff's song right something?
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 5: Not everyone's gonna want to do that.
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 2: Yeaight at that point, I'm probably gonna want to get
• 2:23:29
  Speaker 2: the hell out of there as as quick as possible
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 2: and go have a beer somewhere. Yeah, and shit would
• 2:23:34
  Speaker 2: just happen, you know.
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean I'm interested in like people like
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 5: the Army intelligence and what was the other agency that
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 5: we covered recently that there's like no records for that
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 5: was all over the place. I'm blanking, but like those
• 2:23:57
  Speaker 5: are the like was it Forrestall? No?
• 2:24:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 2:24:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Like there's a lot of yeah, a couple people
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 5: that were caught in the TSBD right when they kind
• 2:24:12
  Speaker 5: of close it down, right, I mean, there's a lot
• 2:24:14
  Speaker 5: of other people that are really weird in there.
• 2:24:18
  Speaker 2: And no, yeahok, a military intelligence.
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, but no, Lansdale wasn't there, Proudy wasn't.
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 2: There, Harvey wasn't there, Howard Hunt wasn't there, Frank Sturgis
• 2:24:35
  Speaker 2: wasn't there.
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 5: Shit at that one. Uh yeah, we can go on
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 5: and not but I think that said sir two twenty four,
• 2:24:48
  Speaker 5: forty seven into it. We have a great time as always,
• 2:24:53
  Speaker 5: and we will be back with you on Halloween night,
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 5: not live, but we will be in the chat with
• 2:25:01
  Speaker 5: the first of six weeks of the Lone Gunman Independent
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 5: Resource Research Month, which I think is gonna be a
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 5: really fun time. I think you guys are really gonna
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 5: especially when it comes to what this dude and this
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 5: dude are working on. However, November twenty first, set your calendars.
• 2:25:29
  Speaker 2: Yep, it's going to be a banger. Yeah, more banger
• 2:25:35
  Speaker 2: than usual.
• 2:25:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you're going to be banged out. You're going to
• 2:25:39
  Speaker 5: be banged out more than blown.
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 2: You'd be like holely sh Yeah, you guys are such
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 2: amazing researchery. No, but it'll be a good one. And
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 2: you know, it's uh something I've never heard people pause
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 2: it before. That are just some puzzle pieces that we
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 2: kind of put together and something that is worthy of reflection.
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 5: And ironically we figured it out or we got the
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 5: idea by accident, which is sometimes how these things happen. Yeah,
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 5: we stumbled upon it, as they would say.
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we built upon it from the original well
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 2: oh dead we Yeah. So guys, we got a crazy
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 2: six weeks coming. You're going to dig it, a promise,
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 2: And but of course we'll be back before then with
• 2:26:41
  Speaker 2: another book review and another live show next Wednesday for
• 2:26:46
  Speaker 2: members only. And but it is for all members, not
• 2:26:51
  Speaker 2: just COVID operation above being it is the last Wednesday
• 2:26:54
  Speaker 2: of the month. Spooks can be there too. So if
• 2:26:58
  Speaker 2: you are spooked, if you just spooked and blessed by
• 2:27:02
  Speaker 2: Brandon Tonight with a membership, just no, you got another
• 2:27:07
  Speaker 2: show coming next win straight to you.
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 5: And about a year plus of other shows you can
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 5: go back and watch on.
• 2:27:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're spooked, and just go check out the
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 2: playlist and click the members only tab and you can
• 2:27:21
  Speaker 2: go back and check out all the spook shows that
• 2:27:23
  Speaker 2: we've ever done. So there's a little perks there for you,
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 2:27:30
  Speaker 5: And thank you the Double B for your contribution.
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, we appreciate it.
• 2:27:38
  Speaker 5: And yeah, man, I'm pumped.
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 2: So with that being said, Joe, grab the little dog
• 2:27:44
  Speaker 2: between your legs and I'll grab Dino by the tie
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 2: and drag him in here. Yeah, buddy, it is chilling.
• 2:28:02
  Speaker 2: Ruby's like Joe, guys here hard. Please.
• 2:28:10
  Speaker 5: I've been calling her throughout the show and petting her
• 2:28:14
  Speaker 5: so she doesn't know when she's gonna get picked up
• 2:28:16
  Speaker 5: and meet to dance, because if I call her at
• 2:28:20
  Speaker 5: the end, she knows and not to come. Dogs are smart, she.
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 2: Next case until then. Thank you. It's a goddamn like
• 2:28:33
  Speaker 2: button on your way out the door. Please please please.
• 2:28:38
  Speaker 5: Yes, Ruby would like that.
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, so she can so she can eat. Yes, please
• 2:28:47
  Speaker 2: help support starving dogs in Africa, Connecticut. Thank you. Peace,