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The Stephen Patterson Interview · Legally Brunette

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunettes. I
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: will be your host, Emily Simpson and.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Shane Did you forget your name? What happened there? I
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: forgot you were talking about me?
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you all right? I Normally I love that
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: we do this podcast and it's always legally based and
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: we never talked about housewives. But today we're just gonna
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: have to break that rule a little bit because we're
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: gonna have to talk about Wendy and Edwardespo. So, Wendy
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: is a star on the Real Housewives of Potomac along
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: with her husband Eddie, and the two of them are
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: facing multiple criminal charges in Carroll County, Maryland, which are
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: tied to one investigators allege was a staged burglary and
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: false insurance claims. Wendy was indicted on seven counts of
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: insurance fraud, eight counts of conspiracy to commit insurance fraud,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: and one count of false statement to a police officer.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Edward was indicted on nine counts of insurance fraud, eight
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: counts of conspiracy to commit insurance fraud, and one count
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: of false statement to a police officer. According to county officials,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: the couple was taken into custody on Thursday, October ninth,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: following a grand jury indictment. Now, we were filming the
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: reunion on Thursday October ninth, So I like to put
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: myself in that position where I'm like sitting on a couch, probably.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Yelling at someone or getting yelled at.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Or getting yelled at one or the other, and Wendy
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: and her husband were taken into custody. You know, my
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: question is when I think about timelines, I filmed wife Swap,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: and we know Wendy film Wive Swap as well. I
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: filmed it back in May, which means Wendy probably filmed
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: it in like the April May probably April is timeframe.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if that at that time, if she
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: was aware that they were investigating.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't know.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Based on the little I read, it's like they were
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: gathering all this evidence behind the scenes without their knowledge,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: searching for the the reported jewelry. Didn't they returned some
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: jewelry photos of jewel them wearing the jewelry after the fact.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: They probably did their homework without disrupting and talking to
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: them to alert them so they could hide evidence.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Right, so when they arrested them on October ninth, I
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: believe did they search their home at the same time.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I would imagine so, So that.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Means that this report that they found like fifteen items
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: that were allegedly written as far as stolen items, but
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: they found them in the home means that they just
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: found them when they probably are. And there's when you
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: do it.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: When you do an arrest, you do a sweep anyway
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: of the nearby areas. But if you have a warrant
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: to arrest them in the house, you're probably going to
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: have a warrant for the gathering of or searching of
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: evidence as well.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: So authorities say the case stems from an April twenty
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: twenty four incident at the Espho's home, where they reported
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: that they had been burglarized while they were vacationing in Jamaica.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Investigators now claim the evidence didn't match that story, noting
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: that there was no force entry and no alarm activity.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I did read that they have an ADT alarm on
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: their home, but.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: There was no Oh, so they didn't even think to
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: trigger or anything.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, you know, that's the question is.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: And again, this is all alleged, because you know, everyone's
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: in a cent until proven guilty.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: However it appears to be guilty, it does.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: It appeared to be guilty. But do you think this
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: was something that they concocted prior to going on vacation
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: and like thought out and planned, or do you think
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: it's something where you come home and you think, hmm,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: we could have been burglarized while we were gone, we weren't.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: I think they got ideas from all the celebrities getting
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: robbed while they're out of town or burglarized while they're
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: out of town, so they just thought, oh, we can
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: do the same thing and it'll look legit like we
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: just be like, oh, we're out of town, and people
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: knew because the social media, and we're famous and have
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of money, and they came and took everything
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: even though they didn't so.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Email records obtained by deputies showed that on April twelfth,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, Eddie emailed the list of reportedly stolen
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: items to Windy. Now here's my question. I don't know
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: how the investigators accessed this email.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know Mighty arrested them. Maybe they gathered but.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: That would have been this was on October ninth. I mean,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: we're just this article came out like two days later,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: so I don't know. I'm saying they had to have
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: I feel like they had to have been aware that
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: they were being investigated because they had to have police
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: had to have confiscated their computers to be able to
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: access an email. I'm just trying to think of timeline,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: like when she was aware that they were being investigated,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: And I'm still trying to figure.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Out at least knocked on her door if it was.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Prior to filming WIFE'SWAP.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: But that's the way crooks are. They don't. They don't
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: con artists, they don't. All I'm saying is it's not
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: paranoid like you and me of getting arrested. They think
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: they'll they're Scott freed. Look at Jenshaw wasn't the same way.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: She's still doing it. She claimed innocence all the way
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: up until the court steps, and she had she knew
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: she was screwed.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: So email records obtained by deputies showed that on April twelve,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, at He emailed the list of reportedly
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: stolen items to Wendy. The email as if there were
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: quote additional high value items that we could add to
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: this inventory listening like Chanelle's shoes, et cetera.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Was the subject headlinely email conspiracy to commit fraud.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Like GotY?
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Could they have been more obvious? I'm trying to.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Get the total to exceed four hundred and twenty three
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars, which is our policy maximum. So it's like,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: what other items can we add to this list so
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: that we can get the maximum amount back.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Right at the.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Time of their arrest, the search and seizure warrant was
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: executed for Wendy and Eddie's home. Deputies found and we
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: just talked about this. At least fifteen items that appear
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: to be the same ones they claim to be stolen
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: during the alleged burglary. Look, I know Wendy is very intelligent.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: She's the one with the four degrees. She always talks
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: about how educated she is and she has all these degrees.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Well, no one's saying you're dumb when you're coming in crimes.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: This is poor choices.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Well, I would say, if you're going to list items
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: that were stolen and you're going to give them, at
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: least get rid of the items I mean, I know
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: some were returned, but apparently there's fifteen items that are
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: on the list that are still inside the home.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Academically she's smart, yes, Criminally she's stupid.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Well, there you go. The investigation also found that the
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Oseppos were quote burdened by substantial debt. You know, I
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: don't know if that was the catalyst, that the instigating
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: factor where they had to debt.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: From what you know, what people I shouldn't have someone
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: in their position shouldn't have debt to the point where
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: they have to commit crimes.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean, if you're if you have to
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: commit crimes to pay off your debt, then you probably
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: should have worked on the debt. But I think a
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: lot of people, a lot of people, I'm just making
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: a generalized statement, probably.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Mostly live without outside their means, live.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Outside their means, and are trying to to look bigger
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: than they are and badder than they are, and more
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: wealthy than they are. And you know, Instagram, social media
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: perpetuates that, you know, everybody wants to post their lavish
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: lifestyle and their vacations and their bags and their jewelry.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: And then at the end of the day, you know,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: it's a lot of It's smoke and mirrors. Wendy and
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Edward were released on Friday, October tenth, after posting a
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars bail that was for each. An addition,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Bravo has paused the series premiere of The Wife Swap.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: And we talked about this because Wendy's episode was supposed
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: to be the first one, so it was slated to
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: appear as the first episode, which would be October fourteenth.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: They're pushing it back a week, so the season premiere
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: of Wife Swap is now going to be next week,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: and it's going to be Angie's episode.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: The questions for the other family, Ah, oh yeah, it's
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: can be on next week, friends and family, let's all
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: watch it now.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: It's like nope, yeah, but here's the question it talks about,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: like it's postponed or they're pushing it back, but the
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: question is are they going to er it at all?
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: They're not going to air it, you don't think so. No,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: they'll make a decision later.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: A rep for Wendy told TMZ Doctor Wendy a Cephoe
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: and her husband Edward are back home safely with their
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: family and in good spirits. They are grateful for the
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: outpouring of cern and support from friends, fans, and colleagues.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: They o Cephos, alongside their legal team, look forward to
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: their day in court. At this time, they respectfully asked
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: for privacy as they focus on their family and the
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: legal process ahead. You know, the other thing is said
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: they have three children, like three young children, you know,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: and don't I don't know what's going to happen. I
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: assume they'll take I would assume they'll take some kind
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: of plea deal.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: What do you think I would think sot a lot
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: of evidence.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of evidence again disputable, right.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: But you know, they probably won't serve time.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: I don't think so either. I think they'll take a
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: please have.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: More debt, commit more crimes to get out of the
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: debt for their lawyers.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Wendy Aseepho has been on Real Housewives of Potomac since
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: season five. She was a college professor of education teaching
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: at John Hopkins University before resigning in twenty twenty four.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: See a lot of career and money earning opportunities.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and she was a contributor to the Hill and MSNBC.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: She has degrees from Temple University in John Hopkins and
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: a PhD in Public Affairs and Community development from Rutgers.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Again, we'll find how many seasons was she on a show.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I think she's been on since twenty twenty, so I
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: think she's been on Potomac five seasons, maybe four or five?
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Wow? Yeah, lots of money, earning opportunities and platforms and
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: sucks for them.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Well you have to.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: I don't can make crimes.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't either.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be on anyone else's podcast.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: No, you know, oh I would. That was another thing
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I did see an interview that just resurfaced because she
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: had done an interview a podcast with someone I don't
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: remember who it was, and he was interviewing her and
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: he had asked about the burglary and he said, oh,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: you know, I read or heard that your home got burglarized.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: I think it was right before you guys started filming.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Was that the timeline and her answer listen? Her answer
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have caused any sublition to it originally, but
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: now that we know what, we know what was a response,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: it's a resurface. So people are now you know, you know,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: analyzing it.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, reading it differently.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, when I watched it, it was interesting
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: because he was like, that was something about the timeline,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: like it happened right before you started filming. And she
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: was like, hmm, I think so.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: And I was like, I have to check my emails.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, let me check my emails. But I was
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: thinking to myself, if our home got burglarized, like for real,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: got burglarized, day was exactly what day it was, I
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: would know the timeframe. And you know, my other question
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: or thought is, when you're on a reality show, your
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: life is out into in the public. It is magnified.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: People are constantly digging into your past. There's Reddit threads,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: they're talking about you constantly. I make sure, I mean
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: not that we've ever done anything. I mean, like I'm
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: overly cautious.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Wasn't there some housewife that like went crazy at like
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: a Quizno's or something and it was getting mad at.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: Her and.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: That was Jen Aiden from New Jersey.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dumb exactly.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: So I'm saying you're you're under scrutiny.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Like, well, first of all, that that behavior was inappropriate
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: regardless of who she was. I'm not talking about today.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not stuck on the quiz nos. No, I'm back
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: to Wendy. I'm talking about how when you're on a
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: reality show and your life is under such scrutiny and
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: then you're going to commit, allegedly commit insurance fraud. Also,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: there was another thing I read that I think that
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: and I don't know a lot about insurance, but apparently
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: they filed the the insurance claim with multiple insurance companies.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if you're allowed to do that,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: but it seems almost.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: It depends on the policy whether they'll right.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: But I don't know if that's double dipping or tripled.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Well, they were maximizing it clearly right. They're like, we're
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: going to commit a crime, Let's go all the way,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Let's go all out.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Stephan Patterson was wrongfully convicted of a gang shooting and
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: murdering of south central LA in two thousand and seven.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Despite having an alibi and two very plausible third suspects,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Stephan was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. So
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: on April fifteenth of two thousand and five, around five pm,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: a group of about six Hispanic men belonging to that
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: it's called an F thirteen gang, including year Oliva and
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Juan Sedana, were standing in front of an apartment complex
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: on sixty seventh Street and Parmley Street in Los Angeles.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: During this time, Colleen and Riquez stood on the front
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: porch of her house while her mother Esther Gonzalez, was
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: watering their grass. Enrique saw a black man approach the
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: corner where six men were standing. The F thirteen members
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: shouted racial slurs and throughout gang signs toward the man.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: The man also throughout gang signs in return, then turned
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: and walked down sixty sixth Street. About fifteen to twenty
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: minutes later, the same man returned with another individual. Enriquez
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: and Gonzalez remember this is the mother and daughter that
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: are outside their home, feared what might happen next, so
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: they went inside their home. Enriquez watched them man through
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: the front window of her home, while Gonzalez looked out
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: of a bedroom window, and Enrique saw a man that
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: she later identified as Patterson standing on Parmelay Street. Allegedly,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Patterson pulled out a handgun from the back of his
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: jacket and started shooting. His accomplice stood on the sidewalk
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: and had a handgun as well, and Rique heard the
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: shooters fire about five shots. After the two men finished shooting,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: they ran off towards sixty seventh Street. Enrique saw Yer
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Oliva on the ground and asked Gozalez that was the
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: mom to call nine one one. Yer Oliva died of
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: one gunshot wound to his face, entering at the right
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: lower lip. Now this is the identification, so Enrique's who
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: was a witness to all this, told Detective Mitch Robinson
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: she recognized one of the shooters but did not know
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: his name. She eventually identified Patterson. Later, it was determined
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: she was not able to see the events from her location,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: and I believe she identified Stefan from photo lineup. However,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Utterson was actually on the phone in his house when
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: the shooting happened. He hung up the phone and went
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: to his porch when he heard the gun shots. Numerous
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: witnesses spotted Patterson standing on his porch shortly after hearing
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: the gunshots. The same witnesses watched as the two true
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: perpetrators ran past Patterson's house and continued to sixty seventh
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: in Compton Avenue. Stephen Patterson was a witness, just as
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: everyone else on the street. Was, and I know that
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: his neighbor was standing at his house across the street
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: saw him standing, and I believe they even exchanged words.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Or gestures, like they both shrugged and kind of like
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: what was that exactly?
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: So there are witnesses that can place him standing on
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: his porch when the gunshots went off. On March twenty
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: second of two thousand and six, Patterson was arrested and
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: subsequently charged with one count of murder with enhancements for
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: personal use of a firearm, discharge of a firearm, and
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: discharge of a firearm causing great bodily injury. On August ninth,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: tw the jury found Patterson guilty of first degree murder
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: and found true all of Patterson's alleged enhancements. On July
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: seventeenth of two thousand and eight, Stephan Patterson was sentenced
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: to fifty years to life in state prison. He was
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: convicted of just nineteen years old and served a total
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: of eighteen years in prison. He maintained his innocence the
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: entire time.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: And I think it's I always find important, Like when
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: he was arrested, he had to remain in jail throughout
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: his trial. I believe too, so he never had freedom
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: from the moment he was accused.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Now, the good thing about this case, if there is
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: a good thing, he did spend a lot of time
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: in prison. But however, the Edison Center became involved in
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: his case and discovered the actual identity of the two
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: true perpetrators. They presented this information to the Los Angeles
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: District Attorney's Conviction Integrity Unit, and on March eleventh of
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, the Edison Center and the Los Angeles
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: District Attorney filed a joint petition for rid of habeas
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: corpus and a joint motion for a finding of factual innocence.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Judge William C. Ryan exonerated Stephan Patterson and declared him
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: factually innocent, which.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Is different than now there's doubt, right, that's saying it
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: was not you, it was someone else, right.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: And you know this is also a flaw with eyewitness identification,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: because there was a woman who saw what happened, she
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: saw it from inside her home. She identified him. However,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: there were lots of other identifications. He didn't really fit
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the ID. But again, you have I don't know what
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: it is beure.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Well, there was also a lack of identification like people
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: that were eyewitnesses didn't want to speak up right, unfortunately,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: at the expense of him serving time in jail.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: All right, now that you guys have some background information
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: on Stephan's case, we're so excited to have Stephan with
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: us for an in person interview. We've talked before. I've
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: met with Stephan many, many times. We've had many conversations,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: and I'd like to say, first of all, I love
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: how open that you always are to discussing what you've
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: been through you are now and being so open and
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: honest about it. And also, I think the second thing
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: that I always think about when I think about you
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: is how just what a ray of light you are
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: every time I'm around you. You have such a positive attitude.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: You're always so happy and jovial and kind, and considering
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: what you've been through, I mean, the normal person probably
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to wake up every day and have
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: a smile on their face and be happy about life.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: But every time I see you, you are so happy,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: and I think that's such a testament to like your
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: soul and who you are. So beautiful, So thank you
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: for being here. We appreciate it. Now. What year was it?
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: When the Innocent Center took up your.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: Case, it was like two thousand and nine.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that was just so you were in prison
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: for about four years when they and then you were
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: released I believe back in twenty twenty four, So this
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: is recent, so you haven't been out for very.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Long, like maybe seventeen months.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Seventeen months now, okay, Now, when you were in prison
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and you absolutely had nothing to do with this, tell me,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: how how do you get through a day, just just
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: a day? How do you get through a day? How
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: do you wake up every morning? Just getting through?
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: I think I just breathe, Yeah, you know, I think
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: that's like a I'm trying to teach my little steps
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: now when he gets a little angry to breathe, you know,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: because it's it was gut wrenching every day to hear
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: the sound of the doors closing and locking, like all
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: of it was just it was harsh, and the living
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: situation was harsh. So to get up every day was
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: very difficult. But I just I got up. I would
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: take a deep breath, head up, chest out, and just
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: I knew I was innocent. So it was like it
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: was like one of those things and like fight or
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: flight mode where I knew I had to survive it,
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: and I knew like being down and the dumps wasn't
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: going to do it for me, the person that I am.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: So I learned how to cut hair and just do
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: little things to keep myself busy.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. So was that something they offered you,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: like a course to be able to learn how to
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: cut here?
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: I just I wasn't comfortable, you know, with anyone cutting
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: my hair withol and stuff like that, right, So I
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: learned how to do my own and then I got
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: pretty good at it where people would see me and
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: ask me to do theirs, and before I knew it,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: it was something that I was doing for people, you know.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And yeah, that's interesting. And I know, so you
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: were in prison for twenty years? How did you get
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: through That's such a long amount of time to wake
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: up every day.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: How old were you when you began your sentencing?
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: I was seventeen when it started. I was nineteen when
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: they sentenced.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Me, okay, And for those two years were you also
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: locked up?
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Was bail available?
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: Bell was available? But it was so yes, okay, that
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: was almost impossible.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: And then what facility were you.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Kept at the in the beginning, I was at Loss Padrinos,
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: and then they ended up sending me to them all
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: Santa's County jail and I was there for almost two
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: and a half years. Yeah.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: You know, we talk a lot about false confessions, which
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: isn't your case, but also eyewitness testimony, which was what
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: convicted you. And I read a lot about your case,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and there were several eyewitnesses, and I would say all
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: the eyewitness reports, they all reported that there were two shooters.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: They were all pretty consistent as to what they had
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: on what their appearance was. I do know that there
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: was just one witness that made a reference to possibly
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: seeing one of the shooters at your house, right, That
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: was where the connection was made, and then the police
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: went to your house. Is that correct? But your alibi
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: was as far as what I could read, And maybe
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: you can help with this out. You were at home,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: and was your dad home with you or your grandfather
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: your grandfather, right, and you heard a shooting in your neighborhood, correct,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: And then you did what any normal person would do.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: You walked out onto your porch because there were cops
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: and there were things going on, correct, And you walked
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: out and you were like, what's going on? And then
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: wasn't there a neighbor right across the street from you
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: that also walked out at the same time, and you
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: were conversing right across the street, like what's going on?
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Do you know? So your neighbors saw you, Yes, standing
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: on your porch outside in your neighborhood, not near the crimes,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: not near the crime scene, just wanting to know what's
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: going on in your neighborhood. And then when did the
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: police come to what did did they come to question you?
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: What was after that?
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: Never? They never came to question me. I think it
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: was about a year later after this happened. Because in
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: my neighborhood is family oriented. It is a red line area.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Things do happen. They do have, you know, gangs and
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: stuff over there, but it was a family oriented nothing
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: like that had happened over there in the last thirty years.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: What's why you came outside right right.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: And it was more so coming outside was because I
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: seen the neighbors come outside. It was such a shock
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: and it was so loud you could just tell, so
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: that we felt like it was on our block. So
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: we came out to see what was going on. But
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: also just in case anyone needed any help, because that's
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: the way we were raised around there, you know, we
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: helped each other. And so came outside. There was nothing
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: going on, and then I noticed that a year later
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: they pulled me over and I noticed that they were
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: like following me, and then they pulled me over and
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: said I had a warrant for a ticket, like because
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: at the time I was driving, and they took me
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: for this ticket. And the next thing i know, I'm
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: being told that I'm facing murder charges. And this was
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: a whole year later. They never came and at the
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: time I had a drivers permit, so they knew where
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: I stayed. They never came to question me. They never
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: came to see if there was anything that I could
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: give them to show my innocence or anything. They just
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: always kind of put it off on me. And then
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: throughout the years of me fighting my case, I started
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: learning different things about my case that I didn't even
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: know because I'm not involved, you don't really know. And
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: then I'm seeing what they're putting together and I'm like,
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: I don't know this. I wasn't there this and that.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: So it was just an uphill battle. And then for
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: whatever reason, I believe they just needed someone to blame.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: Even the girl who testified against me to say that
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: I was the shooter. I don't even believe that she
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: really meant that. I don't think that she And maybe
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: it's just me being a person who's loving. I don't
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: even think that she knew the seriousness of what was
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: going on.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Now, was she the one that she was the daughter
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that was with their mother and then they gave statements?
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: And was she the one that identified you from like
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: a six pack or something like a photo line up?
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: You know, and I'm not sure of the timeline of
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: when she did that, but maybe it was one of
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: those things where she identified you in a photo lineup
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: and then she just felt compelled to stick to it
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: instead of saying, you know, maybe I could possibly be wrong.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but there were so many underlining things that happened
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: in that, like she was collhearsed a little bit. I
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: think they wanted I think the family wanted justice, and
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: rightfully so, and I think that they were looking for
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: someone to blame. And I think that I just being
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: young African American male, only black family on that street,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: perpetrators ran down that street.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: I just think it was your name put in the
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: How did they even know of you did the day
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: of the crime. Did they interview you so they had
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: your name on record? Is or someone just submit your name?
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: And then a year later they pulled you over.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: No, they interviewed the whole block, and we all said
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: the same thing. We didn't really see nothing. We seen
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: two boys running down the street. We didn't really see nothing.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: And then a year later I find out that this
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: girl was a witness when it first happened and said
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: that she thought it was the boy around the corner
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: and they just took X amount of time to actually
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: come and to arrest me. And why, I don't know.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: I can't. I can't. I had no record, I had
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: never been in any trouble, you know. I I've always
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: thought that the law. I believe in the law, and
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: I thought that the laws for the lawless, and I
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: always believed in the justice system, you know. And I
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: just thought that this was going to pull over. I
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: never thought that I ever was going to go to prison.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: I never thought I was going to ever have to,
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: you know, be sitting here. Yeah, and so, and then
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: you know what, when you're I was living my regular life.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: You know, it was a tragedy that happened. We felt
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: really bad for the young man when it happened because
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: we knew everybody in the neighborhood. I went to Edison,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: which is a school right across the street from where
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: I stayed. We all kind of knew each other growing up.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: So it was it was heart It was heart wrenching.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: It made everybody kind of want to stick to their
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: families and stay in the house. But I just think
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: they wanted someone to blame I. To this day, I'm
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: still baffled. I really can't give an answer why they
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: picked me because I didn't fit that. I didn't I
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: didn't fit the description. I didn't fit none of it.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: I mean the guys they said the guys were like
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty two hundred and seventy pounds. That's
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: not my size at that time. I don't think you
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: were seventeen, Yeah, but I don't think I think. I
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: don't think I was that small since I was ten.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: If I was a big kid, righty, So like pictures
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: of me and everything just proved it. It wasn't me, like,
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: you know, you wouldn't describe me as being that small.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: That's a specific description. That's that's you know, and they
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: still convince.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: It like someone saying it was six foot tall and
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: then they come after me right, like right.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: It just was. It was. It was something that we
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: all were baffled by, and even to this day, I
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: stopped trying to figure it out. I think that's how
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: I was able to heal, be humble and kind of
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: be more joyful and have joy on my heart and
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: not blaming the people that put me there. I look
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: as well as there's someone who needs to be brought
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: to justice for what happened to this young man. People
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: need to be accountable for what happened to me. And
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: I want to be angry, but I can I'm free,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: I'm free, I'm here with Emily, right. How can I
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: be angry at that? I want to be angry, but
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: it's just not in my heart. And I'm so grateful
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: that he did that for me, because the only person
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: can do that is God, to take that out of
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: your heart like that. You know, I'm not angry at nobody.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: I'm not upset. I know that things happen. I'm not
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: a victim, you know. I am victorious in this in
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: so many ways, and now I can help.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: That's such a good attitude to have stuff. And I swear,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: anytime I get down on the dumps about anything, I'm
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: just gonna call you because because I mean, honestly, it's
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: such a perspective to really focus on, because at the
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: end of the day, we all get so caught up
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: in the minutia of our lives and all these things
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: that bother us or this person said this, or I'm
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: on a TV show and blah blah blah. People on
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: social media said mean stuff about me, and it weighs
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: me down, It bogs me down, you know. And then
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I sit next to you and I listened to you,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: and you you spent twenty years in prison for a
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: crime you did not commit, and you came out of
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: it with a joyful heart and not you know, hatred
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: towards anyone, and you're out here speaking and advocating, and
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: you know, I think we can all take a lesson
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: from that. I think, you know, when we all feel
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: like we're having a horrible dame and we're dealing with
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of terrible things, I mean, we can think
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: about you and what you went through, and I don't
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: know You're just such an inspiration. I feel that way
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: every time I speak to you. I really do, I
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: really do. And you know, also, I would assume that
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: when you were going through your actual trial that the
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: entire time that you were you were in trial, you
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: were thinking I'm going to be I'm going to be acquitted, right,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure you weren't sitting there ever thinking
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: that you were going to be convicted.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: No, even after they I was convicted and during sentencing,
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: I had so much faith because of what we had
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: found out and what we had hired a new attorney
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: and he was working, and I had so much faith
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: that this was going to be overturned. I think it
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: was like maybe after my tenth year, I started like
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: really being drained and really realizing like, wait, this is real. Like,
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: you know, I think all that time I kind of
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: still had faith on my heart that this was going
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: to be overturned. I knew I was innocent, and I
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: think it was like my tenth year I kind of
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: sat back and I was like, Wow, you know, I
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: think I may have to spend the rest of my
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: life here.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Well, you spent twenty years. What was your original sentencing?
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Though it was fifty to life. It was fifty to life,
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: and I was actually preparing for board before I was released.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: A lot of people don't know this. So I had
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: fifty the life, but it was with the possibility of parole.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: So they wanted me to do twenty five years, and
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: if I had done the programs and had a good
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: behavioral time in prison, that they would release me.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: So you were preparing for something that may take place
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: in twenty five years. Yes, that was your backup plan.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: Yes. And the only thing I think deterred me from
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: that at the end was that they wanted me to
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: be accountable. They wanted me to take accountability. They wanted
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: me to stand up and say, hey, I did this.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: I know it was wrong, I shouldn't have done it,
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: and I would like to go back into society for X,
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: Y and Z. I've done the best I could to
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: redeem myself. But even going to the board, like, how
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: can you say the time that I did twenty five years,
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: even if I had a clean slate, is enough time
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: for that young man's life. You know? It's like, I
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: appreciate that they have that system, and I think that
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: that system work. I think that we make mistakes, and
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: I think that people should have redemption. But for me,
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: being an innocent person, to stand up and said I
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: did something that I didn't do, I couldn't stomach it.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: So I battled with that. I went back and forth.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: If I used to call my attorneys and tell them, like,
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know how I'm supposed to stand up if
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: I'm able to go to board. Because they had this
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: SB two sixty law which said that if you got
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: convicted and you were twenty five or younger, that they
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: would try you as a juvenile. They would take that
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: into consideration. And being that I was so young, I
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: fell under that law. So they were gonna pull me.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: I think six months prior to me coming home to
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: them finding out that I was wrongfully convicted, they were
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: gonna pull me early to go to the board. And
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: I had I had, I have been I have been
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: cleaned for a while. I had been taking building resilience
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: and anger management and a VP alternative to violence.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Had to know what you really needed, No, but you
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: were just going through the motion to say that you
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: know you're right right right.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: And I had so many milestones and so many things
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: I accomplished, but you know, what I will. I did
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: need it because I grew up in a redline area,
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: like I took AA and I had never been an
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: alcoholic but now but now now I drink and I
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: use those steps to colporate it, right, So it was
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: almost preparing me. I feel like it was preparing me
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: for now. That's the reason why I'm able to have
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: a little bit of of resistance to certain things going
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: to certain areas because I know better. You know, we
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: all were taught one way when we grew up, and
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: it's our upbringing, and I just was taught different, Like
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: my lessons were harder because I knew better. Other people,
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: you know, they grew up in these areas and it
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: goes down from like the grandparents to their parents and
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: then it trinkles down to them. It's just generational curse.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: And so I knew better. You know, I didn't. I
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: didn't grow up. I grew up in a middle class
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: African American family, so I didn't grow up, you know,
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: not having the proper things. I didn't grow up in
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: an abusive home. I just didn't grow up like that.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: So for the people who did, that's why my hardest
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: the way it is now, I feel really rody for
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: them because they had it hard like I had it hard,
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: but they had it hard. You know, they're the ones
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: who suffer differently. So I like, she said, what can
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: I How can I say I'm dealing with harsh times
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: when you got someone who's probably been physically abused when
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: they were a child, you know, So those things carry me,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: and they liked my heart, and I walked soft because
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: I've been in a place where I've had to be
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: tough and I'm just done with it. I'm done. I'm
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: so done with that.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: You know, how's your mom.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: She's doing well, She's doing well.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: And I know your mom was a huge supporter of
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: you the entire time. She hired a private investigator, correct,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, she knew you were innocent. She was doing
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: everything possible. And was there anything that came out of
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: her hiring the private investigator? Was there any information that
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: helped with your release from that?
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Very much? So he went out and we found out
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: that there were so many people who've seen what happened,
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: but they didn't want to say anything. And I understood
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: that being in the growing up in that neighborhood, so
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: they wanted to come and help, but they just they
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: just couldn't. And in the end, I think they finally
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: just was like, you know what, this is just too much.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: And a lot of people have stepped up to help
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: me and and prove my innocence, and especially my mother.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: I was mentioning my mother. That's another reason why I'm
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: so humble, because you know, imagine, you know, you have children,
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: Imagine one of your children at seventeen being taken and
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: there's nothing you can do, Like you know, she did
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: that time with me, and a lot of people don't
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: know how hurt and how much trauma she has. Like
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: I'm still young, I'm thirty eight years old, but my
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: mother's in her seventies and she's still like she still can't,
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: like she doesn't like slamming doors and different little things,
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: so she had I feel like she has more trauma
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: than I do. For me. Yes, I have two other siblings.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: With a younger older I'm just wondering what it was like.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: My brothers he's five years older than me, and my
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: sister she's the youngest.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: So so you were the middle child that was yes.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: Yes, and and and a big at the time, you know,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: a big. It was a big piece of our family.
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: You know, I was always the outspoken one. I was
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: always the one willing to step up and take the blow.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: And I get that from my mother. My father passed
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: when I was five years old, so I didn't have
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: him in my life. But my mother was both and
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: she played the position of both. She was an RN
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: registered nurse and she just she did all that she could.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: And she was single at this time. Yes, so she
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: was a single mother, yes, with through your children at
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: home in one taken away.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Yes. Yes, And you know what, I owe her everything
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: I do. You know, I don't always get a chance
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: to express that to her, but I owe her everything.
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: She's She's just been such She's my best friend. She's
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: been so much of an advocate for me and rooting
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: for me. When I had no one to root for me,
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: she rooted for me. And there was time. There's just
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: one thing I want to share, what you guys, she said,
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: and maybe it can it can help you, right, she
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: told me. One day I called her and now, what's
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: going through so much grief? And I say, you know,
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: you don't understand. There's no one here to talk to
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: me when I needed, or to hug me when I
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: need a hugg and she told me to hug myself.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: And I thought that that was so harsh, but it
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: got me through my journey because I'm the only person
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: at that time that was there for me. She just
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: taught me how to stand in my own lane and
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: stand on my own two feet as a man. And
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: that's why I say, like, women are just like so
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: powerful in this world. They don't get enough credit, but
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: they do so much. They're behind us so much, but
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: there are so powerful and they do so many great
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: things for us.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: Well more so, she was your mother, so yeah.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: And even the women that I've dated, they throughout my journey,
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: since I've been home, they've all left me with a
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: piece of them. And the piece that they left was
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: just it helped me grow into who I am. It
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: really did, and I have to give them credit. There's
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: so many people in my life that I've met that
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: have given me my strength that I needed when I
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: got out here, and majority of the were women. I
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: have to be honest, good, that's the truth. That's the truth.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: At what point in time, if any I don't want
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: to put words about, did you come to have some
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: peace and just kind of accept things When.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: He was a prisoner afterwards.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Either, but peace with yourself where you were just content, right,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: because I imagine happiness was hard to come by in prison.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Like peace and happiness are a little bit different. So
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: for Pea, did you have any peace at all?
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: I did? You know? I had. They had gave lifers
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: back their family visits, and I was able to this
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: is in prison, and I was able to have my
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: wife with me at the time, Tamaya, and she was
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: able to give me a peace of the world that
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: I wasn't receiving because I was locked up, you know,
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: just different little things, being able to see a refrigerator
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: and a real bad and.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Was it visit where you got to go into a
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: little apartment and have a long time.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And so that that gave me a sense
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: of hope and a sense of relief because I was
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: starting to feel more a sense of normalcy, you know,
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: not being around men all day and just having someone
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: besides myself to hug me and do different things, you know.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: So that gave me. And then when I got out,
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: I think what gave me a sense of peace was
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: I didn't really when I when I first when they
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: first let me out, I didn't really have nothing to
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: come home to. There was no compensation then, and there
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: was no transitional housing then. But my attorney's Jazmine and
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: Mike and a lot of other people. Forgive me if
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: I forgot to mention your name, but they helped me
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: throughout this process and are still helping me. Like, there's
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: so many things that they did for me that gave
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: me a peace of mind that made me feel more comfortable.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: Like I wasn't by myself. I had my family, but
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: I had been gone for so long. You know, I
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: had been gone for so long. So I knew them,
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: but I didn't know them, and they didn't know they
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: knew me. And you know, people were getting out of
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: prison after twenty years, even me now, person that got
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: out would be a little skeptical, like you know this guy, Okay, yeah, sure,
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: you know, because those are harsh living situations and sometimes
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: people go in one way and they come out another,
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: you know, and it's because of where they were at
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: for so long, institutionalized, and so yeah.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: You know, I think that's you know, that's why I
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: enjoy the work that I do at the Enocent Center
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: so much, is because people. First of all, I think
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: people don't think that so many people can be wrongly convicted.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: It's not something you think. You think in a general
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: sense that the justice system works, and if people are
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: in prison it's because they committed a crime, and we
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: know that that's not always the case. Also, when you're
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: exonerated and you're let out, first of all, how did
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: you find out that you were going to be exonerated,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: and the fact that you're factually innocent, which is different
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: because there's other times where people get out of prison
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: because of parole or something like that. But you were
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: deemed it's actually innocent, so you got to walk away
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: and then you didn't have to go through anything else.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: There wasn't any hearings or parole bordering.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: That was the result of the eyewitnesses coming out.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: Yes, okay, yes, what.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Did that feel like?
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: In that moment, it was really scary because I didn't
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: know if it was going to actually happen. And then
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: the way that it happened was they came and got me.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: I had just got off of work. I started doing
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: a construction job I had been doing for like three years.
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: We were helping rebuild the prison, and they came and
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: got me from work. And they put me an asset,
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: and normally when they do that, it's because you're in trouble.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: And so no one could ever tell me what was
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: going on and what was going to happen. And then like,
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: what did they put you in an asset? The whole
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: Oh it's called that said, and I didn't know what
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: was going to happen. And then I finally got ahold
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: of my attorney and he told me it was like,
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: you know, you got great chances of you coming home,
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: and they just want you to be safe, and they
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: put me an asset. And then from there it just
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: was like everything start happening so fast. I mean I
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: couldn't eat it.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: I mean because it was just racing through your head,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: this possibility.
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: It wasn't like there was something that was filed and
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: I was waiting on a response for me from the courts.
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: I didn't know. And it's another thing I want people
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: to know, especially if you have families that are waiting
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: on their turn to be released with a foster accused.
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: We sometimes we don't see what's going on, but all
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: the magic is happening, like all of the blessings are happening.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: These lawyers are working so hard, but we don't see it,
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: and we just kind of feel like nothing's going on,
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: no one's helping, But it's happening. And it happened to me.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: It happened to me out of nowhere, and before I
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: knew it, I was in the courtroom and the judge
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: agreed to everything, the DA agreed to everything, and they
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: were releasing me.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: And how long was that period when they put you
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: in the hole until you were actually released? Do you
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: know how long a time?
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: It was about fifteen days two weeks, so that's fast,
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: about two weeks.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: But I can understand. I bet the amount of anxiety
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: you had during those the two week time period must
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: have just been because on one hand, you don't really
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: want to celebrate, right because you don't want your mind
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: to go there, because if you allow your mind to
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: go there and then it doesn't work out, then you
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: have to go through that depression and that morning state.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Maybe if it was one year into it, you'd start
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: to get excited, but you had been there for twenty years,
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: sow you know what could be, which is another twenty years.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: And then my attorneys they were so like, they handled
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: it so well with me, but they always let me
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: know like this. Of course, there's always a chance that
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: it could call the opposite way. They were always trying
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: to prepare me chest in case, but they would also
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: nudge me and let me know you're all right, like
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: it's going to be good, you know. And so when
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: I finally got released, I don't think I finally realized
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: that I was really released until like maybe two three
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: months into it. I think I still was worried if
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: something was going.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: To happen, you're going to come down, knock your doors.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: And I just had to really come into myself and
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: my own and say, hey, you're innocent, you never deserve
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: to be there. You don't have to feel this way.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: They did this for a reason, and you need to
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: just really relax, and I start, I start taking my
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: own advice. I start breathing and working. Working for anybody
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: who's just getting released is the main thing you have
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: to work.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: So that's really interesting. When you're in prison, you had
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: to figure out a way to be at peace, and
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: then when you got out of prison, you again had
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: to figure out a way to be at peace.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, what's the first thing that you think about that
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: you need to do? Is it finding a job. Is
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: that because they released you, which is great, you're exonerated.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: But these are the conversations we've had before when with
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: the Enoson Center, is that there's no program, there's no
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: there's no transition. It's like you've just spent twenty years
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: in prison and now you're released and they let you
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: out the door and you walk away, and then it's
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: like good riddance. Now figure foul and you you don't
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: have a job, you don't have any compensation for being
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: in prison for twenty years. You have changed. I remember
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: you telling me when you're at my house that, like
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: an iPhone was something completely new to you.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Well, let's because of what year were you sentenced.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: I was sentence, I think you said. Or no, I
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: was sentenced in two thousand and eight.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Eight, but five was the year of the crime, So
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: from eight to twenty twenty four, twenty twenty four.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like when I when I left, I think we
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: had those chirp nick telephones, and so.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're making phones identify where we are. Nonetheless, but
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: it's communication. It's it's way of getting about your day.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: So you come out it's almost a foreign language in
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: some areas.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: Of altechnology, and even traveling, it was hard for me
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: to the GPS, things like, am I going the right way?
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: This GPS is telling me forty five minutes out? Am
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: I going to take this chance and be way trusted?
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: And so? But now I'm doing much better. You know.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: Now I'm learning how to get to places without using
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: the GPS, just side of memory. And I'm still having
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: a hard time with these iPhones.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: I still have a hard time.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's important.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: But what was it like when you got out? What
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: was it like reconnecting with your family?
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: Now?
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: I know you were always close with your mom, so
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: I assume that that relationship probably was just took off.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: But did you have any trouble reconnecting with your siblings?
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Was it difficult to kind of feel like you've found
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: your place back into your family? I mean, you've been
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: gone for twenty years and their lives had all gone on,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: and now you just have to jump back in.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: I did it. It's really difficult. Even now, it's really
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: difficult because we're getting to learn each other again. You know,
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: when I left, I believe my sister was thirteen fourteen, Yeah,
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: and so actually she was twelve when.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I left, very young.
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very very young. And then now she's a one,
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: you know, and so respecting boundaries and just on both ends,
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: you know, like she doesn't want me calling trying a
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: big brother her, and then there's a part of me
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: that wants to be protective. I want to make sure
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: that whatever that I've learned in my life I give
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: her because we should be able to learn from each
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: other's mistakes. You shouldn't have to make the same mistakes
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: I made, And not that I thought she would, but
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: it was always good for me to give it to
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: her just in case she has a child, a young boy, whatever,
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: just to kind of give her that extra heads up
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: on what could happen and how it happened to me.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: And she was very receptive. But you know, it's being
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: away from someone for that long. You still have to
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: build that. You have to because.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: You you probably were released and you still have visions
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: of your memories are when she was twelve. Yeah, that's
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: where you that's where time stopped for you and your
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: relationship with her. Yeah, you come back and you still
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: know her as a twelve. I'm sure maybe you had visits.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but you know her. Really, your relationship
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: was with a twelve year old and now she's thirty
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: two or whatever. Yeah, thirty and yeah, and you have
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: to or as a thirty year old.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: Now right, and you know what she and vice versa.
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: They still treat me like I was just that I'm
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: this young kid. Yeah, yeah, that's right, and it's it's
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: when you've been controlled for so long like that you
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: kind of don't want to be controlled. And so in
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: the beginning, it was like people will try to give
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: me advice, and I wasn't receptive because I was like,
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: you know, yeah, I could see if you had it together.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: If you had it together and you give me the advice,
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: I'll take it wholeheartedly. But if we're both on the
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: same page, like we're learning as we go, we can
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: be there for each other, but not the guiding part
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: of it. I just I wasn't comfortable. I wasn't ready
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: to accept like someone kind of helping me guide me
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: that I felt wasn't in a good position. But I
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: feel differently now because what they did for me was
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: give me a direction. You know, you can point someone
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: in the right direction, it's up to them to take
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: it and along your journey. If it doesn't go right,
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: you can always detour. So that well, my siblings, that's
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: where it's at right now. We're learning each other. We're
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: coming into who we are and learning who we are,
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: and it's thereship.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: And you mentioned you're married. Yes, how long have you
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: been married?
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: I've been married to me and to mine has been
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: married for ten years. We are more best friends than
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: married right now.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: That might be better than married and not best friends.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: That's my best friend. She has all of the right
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: intentions for me, and I trust her, and it's very
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: hard to find people that you trust. And I think
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: me and her relationship started while I was in prison.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: We've been known each other for over thirty five years,
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: but our relationship started while I was in prison. So
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: to have a relationship in prison family visit once every
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: ninety days is not the same as living together knowing
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: each other like, that's a big different And so we're
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: learning each other, getting to know each other. And we're
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: great friends.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: So you knew her prior to being sentenced. Oh yeah, okay,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, yeah, you truly are.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: We grew up to great You know.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: That's interesting that you said that, though, because having a
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: relationship or a marriage in prison is completely different than
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: when you're released. And then you try to have a marriage,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: you know, and it might work when you're in prison,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Like you said, you can only see each other ninety
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, Shane. If I only saw Shane every ninety days,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: I feel like we probably never have any arguments. It
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: probably work out great. But I see him every day,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: so and that's different.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: So you're in prison having a relationship one way, and
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: you see each other every ninety days or whatever, and
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: you have only a limited amount of time, and you
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: talk about what you need to talk about, and then
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: you get released and you're like, wait, now I have
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: to see this person every day and I have to
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: figure out how to navigate life with them every day
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: and finances and all those things.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: And she has a routine's been doing this already. And
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: then someone comes in and it's probably saying, I don't
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: like burritos. Can we have this?
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: Absolutely right? Absolutely right? And then you know, I'm a
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: very I would like to believe I'm a very loving person,
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: and so I'm really hands on and not for her.
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: Not having someone around that long, it kind of can
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: be a little overbearing, overbearing, And so I had to
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: learn that I had to learn that. And then I
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: because I was feeling some type of way like wait
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: a minute, what do you mean I'm here now? Is
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: what we've been dreaming and wait now. But I had
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: to do it in increments, and I just went with
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: the process and trusted. Like I said, we're really great friends,
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: really really great friends. She's a great person, someone that
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: I admire and looked up to for so many years.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: She's like a trick of all trades. She's a school
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: teacher for so many years, and then COVID hit, and
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: then she went to work at the DMV and now
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: she's a manager there, and so like, she's like someone
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: who I look up to and look at and I
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: could appreciate her and her accomplishments and everything she's done
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: in her life. She's in really a good position, and
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: I'm really proud of her. Wonderful now.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: When you were released, how difficult was it for you
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: to find work? Was that the biggest challenge for you?
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: Very hard, very hard for me? And I think I
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: don't think it was because people weren't willing to hire me.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: I just think it was I wasn't ready. I wasn't
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: ready to work up under someone again. There it is
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: with the authority figure. I had been kind of you know,
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: when you use the restroom, you got to be told
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: yes or no, go to the yard doing yourself. So
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: I think I was still having that heaviness on me
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: and I think it was able to be released when
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: a young man came into my life. And he's a
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: really good kid, and you know, we all need directions.
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: I don't think we're ever too old to have someone
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: that can teach us, something that can give us a
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: positive affirmation, a word of advice. And I'm a people person.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: So me me being you know, kind of in my
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: little shell for the little time I was when I
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: first came out, it was hard for me because I
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: want to get in there, you know, I want to
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: talk to people and communicate and network. And so now
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: I'm doing that and I'm doing better off. I try
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: to help where I can. Right now, I'm trying to
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: set up this program where I can help the youth
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: kind of make it so that they have something looked
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: forward to, some hope, because that's that's what we're lacking
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: in these in these areas I grew up in in
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: South Central we're looking for something to hold on to.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: And I think when we see people and they have
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: nice cars and things, we don't talk about how hard
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: it was to get to there. You know, just one
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: day they come in a nice car and we think, Okay,
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna get older and one day I'm gonna come
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: on that it's so hard to get to there and
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: you have to you have to earn that. Nothing that's
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: worth having comes easy. So I think that's what I'm
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: trying to promote right now to the youth, that there's
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: a narrative painted that we need to be hard and
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: it's hard enough being a man. I want them to
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: get that first you can be a man and you
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: get all the respects from me, because that's what's hard,
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: you know, standing on your own.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: So is it something that you would like to do
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: is to mentor youth? Is that what you're trying to
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: set up? Is that when you say try to set up,
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: is that what you mean some type of program or
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: you're mentoring youth and.
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: The right way like a lot of people do gang
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: prevention and stuff like that. I'm not trying to do that.
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: I'm just trying to show them something different because I
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: know a lot of people when I talked to them
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: when I was in prison, and we would sit down
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: and have these dialogues about how they got here, how
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: did they get to a point where it got this bad.
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: And a lot of people would tell me again their grandfathers,
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: their father and now them. It's just it's just it's
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: it's a it's a prime situation. It's a learned behavior.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, it sounds like it's they distincust their destiny.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: Other way, this is my life.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: I'm a criminal, or I'm never gonna make it, or
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: I'm never going to achieve what I want to achieve.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: So forget it, and then they go down the wrong path.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: Yep, because they feel like that that's they're dead. Like
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: you said, that's they're destined. They don't have they don't
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: they don't have the tools to give them something else
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: that they can do, put them in a positive setting. Well,
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: you know what, they're tools and there are other things
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: that we can do. There's other Uh, there's another mindset
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: and we all can have it. It's just about learning
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: it and being conditioned to do something different. A lot
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: of kids, I was just telling Jasmine on the way
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: over here, they don't want to play sports, because they're
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: not good academically. You got to have good grades to
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: play sports. But they're athletes and they don't get the chance.
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: So you know what they do, They fall to the wayside.
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: There's so many kids that I knew that ran track,
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: that played football. I see them now they're in downtown, homeless,
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: and it just breaks my heart because I grew up
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: this kid was an athlete.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: He had something to offer, but.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: He couldn't get you. He couldn't get his grades right right. No,
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: he needed the extra little push. He didn't need to
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: come home into a house where no one was going
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: to push him and do his homework or study. You know,
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: they send you home with homework for a reason. The
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: teachers want you to keep up this battern so that
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: when they get back to school their minds refreshed. And
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: so it's just I want to promote that. You know,
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: mental health is real. I talk about it all the time.
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: A lot of us don't think that the mental health
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: problem is the problem, but it is. You know, if
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: you if I grew up in a toxic environment, I'm
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: going to grow up being toxic. So every relationship that
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: I have is going to be toxic. And we have
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: to break that, and there's a way to do it.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: It takes time, it takes effort. I have the time,
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: I have the effort, I got the heart for it. It's
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: what I want to do, is my passion.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's you're calling because you have because
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: you have such a such a kind heart and such
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: a such a kind, pure soul. Like I could see
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: children just being very attracted to being in your presence
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: and listening to you. And you know, kids aren't always
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: open to listening to anyone. I have three kids. If
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: I if I tried to speak to them, they wouldn't
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: want to hear it. But if I if my children
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: sat down with you, they would listen to you. And
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: you that's something special that you have.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: And you speak from experience too. Yeah, so it's not.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: Like you're lecturing. You're saying, I've been there, I've lived
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: through this, and let me help you. Where do you
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: see yourself five years from now?
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: Five years from now, I see myself having this foundation
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: that helps more than just the children. Homelessness too, Like
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: it it's so rampant in Los Angeles, you know, and
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: these people belong to somebody's tribe, you know, these are
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: some These are people's families, and I think people just
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: get to a point where they give up with God
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: to have hope again in us as humanity, we just
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: got to have faith in this again. I think people
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: there's so many people who have done wrong and been
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: done wrong that they just give up and there's no hope.
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: You know, there's a way to fix this. We can't
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: help everybody, but we can try. And if I help
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: you and you help somebody, and you help somebody, we
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: pay it forward. Eventually it'll die down a little bit.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: We can't just keep on looking past it. Like there's
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: so many things that we're fighting for and so many
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: things on the table that people feel like that this
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: issue will get handled eventually. There needs to be now.
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: Someone needs to step up and do something now because
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: we can help. It doesn't take much either. It's the
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: time and effort that most of us don't have it.
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: That's just what we're lacking in. It's not even about
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: the resources of the finances. It's time and effort. Some
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: people don't want to go downtown and feed the homeless.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: They don't, But if you do that, you've done a
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: good deed and don't expect nothing back from it. Do
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: it because it's on your heart. I think that's when
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: it's more genuine, when you do it because you want to.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Do it, no strings attachment, no.
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: And then there's no loss, there's no strings attached, there's
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: no loss. Don't give it if you can't afford to get.
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: And that's what time, effort, money, whatever it is, strength,
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: whatever it is. If I work on myself so that
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: when I go out, I'm an input and people plug
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: into me all the time, and I just feel like,
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: that's what I'm here for. That's what I'm here for.
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: That's why my heart is the way it is. That's
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: why my size is the way it is, because I
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: can handle it. And when you can handle it, do so.
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: Don't like like you know, utilize your strengths, don't don't
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: just let it go to waste. You know, life is short.
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: You don't never know what's gonna happen. Look at my situation.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: I never thought that I spent majority of my life
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: in a place that I didn't deserve. And now it's
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: just about other people. It's not about me no more,
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: it's not It's not about Stephan Patters. Stephan Patterson. I'm Okay,
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: it's about other people and helping them and making sure
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: that there's something left behind, because otherwise what is it for.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: I just don't see no other reason for that.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Can I just ask you one more question? What would
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: be your one piece of advice that you would give
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: to someone newly exonerated? I mean they're about to walk out.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: What would be the one thing that you would advise
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: them or help them with?
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: Don't stop, continue to go, continue to move forward, and breathe.
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: It sounds so simple. I've said breathe a thousand times, but.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: You literally mean breathe, like literally breathe, yes and feel
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: yourself yes.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because that's how you're going to get back into reality.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: Because if you don't, like I know so many people
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: that have been exonerated, they're like, I don't see how
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: you can be in this room. It's too small, too
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: many people, too many objects. And it's like those people
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: I feel really bad for. Their trauma was deeper than mine.
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: You know. I always try to keep a good spirit
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: and just breathe. Take your time. Jasmine taught me this,
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: take your time for yourself because you can't help any
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: when we get out and we see our families torn
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: or not together like this, and we want to help
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: because we missed them and we're used to that when
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: we left. We come back and it's no longer like
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: it was when we were children, and we think we
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: want to help, but you have to help you first,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: only worry about you. It's okay to be selfish in
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: that way so that you can help eventually.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: Well, it's selfish, but it becomes selfless, right because now
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: you're better off as you are today to help others.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: I have a quick question, what advice would you give
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: or what would you suggest for a young man who
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: maybe is being taken into custody for a crime day
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: and commit not to say what you did wrong, but
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: what would you suggest someone else to do at the time?
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: Would it be, you know, don't just assume that you're
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: going to be taken care of. But I don't know
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: what is it? What would you what did you learn
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: that you would tell someone else to do in that situation?
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: If you're in a situation where you've been detained and
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: serious like you know, and also there's no cavalry, there's
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: no cavalry. No one's coming to save you because they can.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: At that point, you have to understanding your truth, whatever
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: it is. There's so many things that people put out there,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: and they have these these weights I call them on
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: us as African American people, and that's you know, just
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: whatever ethnicity you are in your upbringing, there's a weight
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: put on us that we're not supposed to do certain things,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: We're not supposed to look a certain way. Be who
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: you are. Don't worry about what no one else has
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: to say, don't worry about what social media is going
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: to say. Don't worry about be who you are, because
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I did all that
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: time for nothing, and I'm the only person Stephen Patterson
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: at done time for that crime.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: And can I just add as an attorney, I would say,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: ask for an attorney and don't talk for.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: Sure for sure. But you know what, when you're when
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: you're innocent and something, you don't even think about that,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: and you think as I never thought about that, I didn't,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: you know. I had people tell me, oh when when
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: they question you asked for when when it actually really happened,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: I was more you're full than anything, like, how could
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: you accuse me of something like that? You know? So
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: it's like in that moment, you don't think of that,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: especially as a child. As an adult, you may think, okay,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: let me ask for an attorney. But when you didn't
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: do anything.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Oh no, kids are not gonna know what that I
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: I felt.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: And then when I finally did a reason to know that,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: when I finally did this, because that's what they told
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: me I could do if you wanted to have an
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: attorney present. And then I was like, you know what, okay,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: because I didn't know what to do, and I felt
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: like they wouldn't let me speak. They weren't letting me talk.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: They were kind of being overbearing. So at that point
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: I felt like I needed to be heard and they
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: weren't hearing me. So of course I'm going to ask
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: for assistance. But in the beginning, there was nothing I
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: really could do. I was a child.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: And also in the beginning, like Jasmine and I have
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: had this conversation, when you get brought down to the station.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: In the beginning, you think you're there because you're just helping. Yeah,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: you don't even understand that you're a suspect, that they're
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: interrogating you, that they that you're just thinking I'm here,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: I'm here to help and then all of a sudden,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: I'm sure at some point something goes off in your
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: brain where you're like, oh wait a minute, I'm I'm
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: not really here to help. So well, anyway, thank you
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: Stefan for being here today and always being so open.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: I love having conversations with you. We've had many, and
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: I love how open you are about sharing your story.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: I think it's so helpful to other people. Also, it's
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: always important for people to hear your story because we
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: always say at the Innocent Center that everyone out there
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: listening is a potential juror. So if you're sitting on
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: a jury, I mean you need to pay attention because
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: this man was convicted by a jury. And how I
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: don't understand, but it happens all the time. So again,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: thank you so much, and we really enjoyed having you
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: and sharing your story.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I got a book coming.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: Oh all right, well, let's promote that.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: What is of the Beasts? And it's just it's my
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: life story, you know, about how I grew up and
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: how South Central was when I grew up, and how
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: you know, there's a there's a great deal of people
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: suffered that need to be acknowledged and that are passed
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: on and gone. Parents had to suffer with me leaving,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: and so it's just about my life. It's coming soon.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: It's coming soon. I'm in the works of it right now,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: and I will let you know.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: That's great. Well, when it comes out, we will definitely
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: have you back and we can talk about your book
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Chat