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Uncovered! First-Year Students Learn Way More than Medicine · The Short Coat (Audio): An Inside Look at Getting Into and Getting Through Medical School

• 463 === Dave Etler: I just want to share with you, before we begin that, you're in the presence of greatness. According to this email that I received this morning, I am selected as one of the top 10 influential leaders of 2023. Olivia Jenks: Dang. Heck yeah, that's great. Top 10. Dave Etler: And it doesn't say that. My question is it the world? Or is it, Olivia Jenks: I mean, I would say the universe. Okay. Oh, Dave Etler: yeah, it's from, Steve Wiggins of Iconic magazine reached out to let me know, this great news. All I have to do is pay $900 Oh, Faith Anton: worth it Dave Etler: to be listed on their, website and magazine, I guess Printed magazine, which looks as though the website looks as though it was designed in, 2003 or something. Faith Anton: Is it a scam? I hear a lot about those. Dave Etler: I'm pretty sure it's not because. I am, you are Faith Anton: the greatest. You are among the top 10 greatest human beings. That is Olivia Jenks: for sure. What this decided, or was it a nomination? Dave Etler: I mean, I have been selected. Oh, selected. Okay. I have been selected. Got it. So Faith Anton: you have a spare $900 laying Olivia Jenks: around. Of Dave Etler: course. I mean, I'm an influence. I'm going to, you know what I'm gonna do? I'll use my, influence to get other people to give me the $900 listeners if you have $900 to send to me so that I can be a top 10. Influential leader? Well, I am an influential leader. I'm a top 10 influential leader, but I can be, publicly acknowledged as the top 10 influential leader that I am. let me know. Faith Anton: Right. With her med school and pa school loans and going into that. We'll get Olivia Jenks: on it. Yeah. Dave Etler: Maybe there's a doctor after. Olivia Jenks: Yeah. Pre-med before you go into debt. Yeah. Dave Etler: Yeah. I'm not advocating that any poor pre-med or medical students or pa students send me $900. But you can go to, there's a donation link on, the shortcoat.com Let's go ahead and do that. Olivia Jenks: I said, really? Yeah. Oh, Dave Etler: good to know somebody's mom once donated. I love that. Sweet. Faith Anton: Give this man money. He is the greatest. This podcast is amazing. Fell in love since interview day. Aw, Dave Etler: thanks. Welcome back to the Short Coat Podcast. It's a show that gives you an inside look at medical school from the students drinking from that fire hose. It's a production of the University of Iowa Carver College of Medicine. I'm Dave Etler with me today. In the SEP studio, some med students whose wisdom might make you think that they're not the first year students, that they really are more like second year students. Dun dun, uh, hers is a mind shaped by hard lived experiences on the streets. it's, M one Olivia Jenks. Hello, with the power to see the future and reveal hidden truths. It's PA one Faith Anton, I'll take it. And she's recently arrived from her remote mountaintop where she dispenses her wisdom to weary travelers. It's M one Katie Cho. All right. And, we're also lucky to be joined. By, a person who's taking her break from casting pearls from her high tower, torn from the earth's core during the ancient upheaval that shaped the hills. It's our admissions expert, Rachel Shoe Lista. Olivia Jenks: Wow. I thought you were gonna stop it. A person who's on her break. Dave Etler: Y'all are, almost M two s Olivia Jenks: almost and Pa two s July 14th. Congratulations. Dave Etler: Did you made it through the first year. You look unscathed. We're Olivia Jenks: not, no. Are you scathed are on the inside? My, my scars on the outside. Faith Anton: Okay. Yeah. Have you seen this face right now? Like, yeah. we tired, but we did it. Okay. And it was worth it. Dave Etler: first of all, You just hanging around the summer? What are you doing? What's your deal? Well, I know PAs do things I think in the Faith Anton: summer, right? Yes. We, starting Monday have our five week summer curriculum. Right. So I will be around all summer. Dave Etler: Okay. Yep. What are you not doing during those? What are you doing during those not Faith Anton: five weeks, during those, I just got back from Nashville. So here to say that you can in fact have a life when you're in med or PA school. All right. Needs to go out and have fun. Dave Etler: What are you guys doing over the summer? I'm doing summer Katie Choate: research in hepatology looking at alcoholic liver disease. Olivia Jenks: Okay, nice. And I'm also doing, summer research fellowship in orthopedics. Okay. Dave Etler: did you select these projects because they are compatible with your career aspirations specifically? Or is it just an opportunity to get some Olivia Jenks: research? I was advised that you should. Try to do research in an area that you're like interested in that might be like the most competitive specialty. And so I'm not like totally decided on ortho. Yeah. but since it's the most competitive one, uh, specialty I'm interested in, that's the one I'm going for. Okay. Mine is Katie Choate: in a branch of internal medicine. not the one that I'm gonna go into, but I really like my mentor and it was just a project idea that she had, so I was happy to work with her. Sweet. And complete that. Olivia Jenks: Nice. Which one do you want to go into? Katie Choate: I wanna go into medical Faith Anton: oncology. Oh good. Are you, this girl loves cancer but hates it. We hate it to be clear. I mean, Katie's gonna be the one that helps a lot of people. Yeah. Dave Etler: Get rid of that cancer for us. Mm-hmm. I'll try my hardest. You have, I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna give you. 20 years. Oh, Faith Anton: I'd give her less. This girl's gonna change the world. Both of them are okay. Oh, Dave Etler: I'm proud to know you then. Appreciate it. this time of year, I like to ask students to reflect on their experiences for the benefit of those who will be starting med school. this fall in just a few short weeks. So, I have a few categories of things, to think about. First of all, how has the first year of medical school changed you or your worldview? if, if it has. But how has it changed you? Do you feel like, Faith Anton: I mean, absolutely. Yeah. It's been the best thing to happen in my life, like PA school. But I mean, here at Carver, the PA students take all of, our classes with the med students. So Dave Etler: yeah. You guys are at the moment equivalent. Faith Anton: Yes. I think in terms of your, yes, which has been the biggest blessing, I think, cuz I, like, I have best friends that are both PAs and med students and sure we learn a lot in the classroom, but I've learned so much from my peers and just about humanity in general and learning how to talk, learning how to empathize better with, all kinds of different humans, different Olivia Jenks: backgrounds. So I wanna Dave Etler: take that up because a lot of times I hear empathy is something that you can't learn, that you just have. What do you. What do you think of that? How do you react, guys react Olivia Jenks: to that? Faith Anton: yeah. It's, it can be taught, it can be practiced. and if anything, if someone doesn't actually feel empathy, they can learn how to fake it, which at the end of the day, that's kind of, you just want the other person to feel heard. Empathy is something that I just have. to my own detri detriment sometimes, but, yeah. what do you guys think? I Katie Choate: think throughout life, like you have these experiences sometimes that put you in a situation where you can empathize with others. not everyone's life is the same. You don't go through the same stuff, but, the older you get, You know, the harder that life may become, you can pick up some of those traits that will help propel you with empathy, especially in med school. And they do in class also. Like we do go through things where, you know, we learn different scenarios and like hopefully if you're going into medicine, you're doing it for the right reasons. And, you know, empathy comes with some of Dave Etler: that stuff. Are we talking about like feeling the pain of other people or understanding where they're coming from? because there's these two weird definitions of empathy that I think are related but not, I Faith Anton: know, cuz I think the actual definition of empathy is truly feeling that pain. But I think more so in medicine we're gonna meet like a lot of people and be exposed to a lot of different things and you can't possibly feel that with everyone, but you can certainly try and understand where they're coming from. Yeah. Use your own experiences to relate to or not. Just to your mouth. Olivia Jenks: I mean, I think the vast majority of our patients are going through something that we've never been through before. So at least like, I feel like everyone tries to find ways to at least relate to someone or like sort of have some understanding of what they're going through. And sometimes maybe we just need to coach that to come out a little bit to show it to the patient or practice, you know, what you're gonna say. There's been a lot of times in our like, practice sessions where I've said something and just gone like, oh, that was completely the wrong thing to say. Well, now you gotta Dave Etler: give us an example. Olivia Jenks: Oh boy. Oh, I don't, I don't know any particulars. I'm a good one. If you don't, it Katie Choate: just, yeah, go for it. So we have a class called, patient Communication Skills. And this will stick with me forever. So one of my classmates, we were doing a practice very first semester and he liked to say, okay, perfect with everything. Mm-hmm. And if he's listening, he's gonna know who I'm talking about. And Faith Anton: our said with love, we've all made mistakes. Don't worry. What's this person? Dave Etler: What's this person's specific name? Faith Anton: no. I Katie Choate: dunno if I can do that, but I listening, we've joked joke about this, like a whole little group has joked about this. Okay, perfect. But we've actually started to inadvertently pick up. Okay. Perfecter. Oh good. That's nice. Like, they'll be like, oh, so I'm coming. Or, what brings you here today? Oh, I have this really intense abdominal pain, haven't been able to eat. Okay, perfect. Olivia Jenks: Or the one I found myself saying, I suppose, was, when someone tells you something and you'll like, it's like clinically interesting, but obviously, A terrible condition and you go, yeah. Like, oh, cool. Faith Anton: Oh, I've done that too. Oh, and Olivia Jenks: you just have to train yourself to say like, interesting or like something like that instead of cool. Because yeah, like, it's not to them. Dave Etler: I once was very sick in the hospital and I do remember receiving many visits from medical students, not around here. I was in another state from medical students and other, and residents who were extremely interested in me, and I was like, all right, at least this is breaking up my day. But you could tell they were like, Faith Anton: I've been in that scenario too, and I don't mind being a patient. So I was like, sure, you do all sorts of scans and whatnot on me to figure it out. But yeah, it is interesting to, yep. Yeah, medical practitioners do that. We're strange. Yes. very odd human beings. That's all right. Somebody's gotta love weird. Yeah, somebody's gotta like the weird, can't Dave Etler: weird get out the weird stuff. did you ha, have you noticed that you look at the world a little differently now? Olivia Jenks: Sometimes I'll find myself analyzing people's gates. Yes. When they wa when they walk. Oh, that's interesting. And I'll be like, oh, that person has a foot drop. Yeah. Faith Anton: Yeah. Or like body habits or like looking at like derm conditions that might also link to like some other like endocrine disorder. I'm thinking like Cushings right now. Yeah. Like it's just, I don't know. You do learn how to read people cuz like we've also learned that communication is not just speaking, you know, you're reading body language and picking up on the things that they're not saying. So, Dave Etler: I just want you to know that if you see me walking down the hallway and I look like I'm walking weird, go ahead and observe it to me out loud. I would like to know, if you're noticing Rachel Shulista: that I'm, you shuffle your feet. I'm not in med school and I can Olivia Jenks: tell you Faith Anton: that I tell, I shuffle my feet. Yeah. You take very slow, deliberate, nice walks. I'm like, this man, he's enjoying life. He's not in a hurry. He's just taking a look around. Okay. Know what you're doing. Yep. I, cause we're just like booking it where we're going. Dave Etler: I know. We have a, Rachel and I have a colleague who walks really fast and, I'm not like, if we ever try to walk together, which happens rarely, but if we ever try to walk together, it's just a shit show. I Cause their legs are like flashing back and forth and my legs are not going back. Well Olivia Jenks: you Rachel Shulista: asked to go on a walk the other last week. Yes. Remember? And you told me like three times. We're not going that fast. Yeah, we're not going that fast. We're strolling. We're strolling. Yeah. This is Dave Etler: leisure. This is not exercise. This is a break from the office. I'm not in a hurry to get back to right Faith Anton: sitting. We love the physical Dave Etler: activity messing with that spreadsheet that I was messing with. Yeah. Olivia Jenks: Dave, do you ever push these catches together and take a nap? Dave Etler: I, you caught me. I did Once. I have, I do have trouble sleeping sometimes, and so rather than go home and sleep, I might take a 15 minute Olivia Jenks: follow up question. Yes. Would you be willing to rent that space out? Dave Etler: Yeah. You guys have so many couches and places to now, Faith Anton: but they're in public places, but they're very public. We need sanctuary. Give us sanctuary please for the madness. this Dave Etler: studio is always a sanctuary for you. if you want to come and sack out for a minute or two Faith Anton: up or just rant or just be Yeah. Rant therapy. We love Dave Etler: therapy. I have had, in the distant past, there was at least one medical student who. Came in here after a hard day, crawled underneath the counter way back into this corner, and just like sobbed. Oh. And I was happy to provide that, opportunity for Olivia Jenks: them. for those that don't know, the studio is like literally inside the medical school and a minute from where all of our lectures are. Yeah. Dave Etler: So it's convenient. It's not exposed. I can, we can close the doors and you can just cry. Nap or Olivia Jenks: cry. Faith Anton: Cry. We laugh and then we cry. Sometimes we cry and laugh. You know, just how it's, Dave Etler: if you're crying, laughing. And nap. And nap, Faith Anton: that's an experience. Yeah. Yeah. Saved for Katie Choate: Fridays. At about what? Noon Faith Anton: after your Olivia Jenks: exams. I have a question. Yeah. Rachel Shulista: Not for you. Welcome, then stop looking at me. Okay. What is something you have either learned or realized during your first year that you have never said Olivia Jenks: to anyone else about ourselves? Sure. About anything. Faith Anton: Anything. I want to come up with something like really poignant here, but this is difficult. Dave Etler: Rachel. Is a question asker. Rachel is a natural. I'm grooming Rachel to take over the show if I ever get hit by a bus or retire. Olivia Jenks: I mean, this is why you're the admissions expert. Yeah. Cause you have to ask all the questions. Oh, Faith Anton: true to true. Okay. I think she Dave Etler: just likes it. Rachel Shulista: I just like it. I'm not an interviewer and anyway. I do just like it. Faith Anton: I'm naturally inquisitive. Yeah. That's a good question. I guess like I've said something along like these lines before to people, which is okay. What? Yeah. But the biggest thing that I have learned about myself and like people that apply to go to med school, PA school, a professional school, Or, graduate school, like most of us are probably gonna be like, type A gunners. We are giving it our best shot. Like, and we are expecting the best from ourselves, like all the time. And like, up until you get to a challenging environment like this, it challenges you. Like physically, intellectually, like, emotionally, socially. it's a, it is a learning curve. And like first semester, I'm not gonna lie, like I, I like, struggled to find, balance. Balance was huge and struggled to find my groove. I'd been rocking school up until then and like, yeah, definitely experienced some failures that were hard to take. But, I guess through that I learned about myself. Like one, I can't do it alone. Like got great friends, got my family. I am a Christian, so I have that too. And you just learn to lean on. Other people, and yourself. But yeah, I just learned, give yourself some grace. You're human. You mess up now so you don't mess up later when it really matters with a patient. and you learn from your mistakes. Love it. Yeah, it's good. Katie Choate: I think that I've learned it's an odd feeling to still be in school yet be an adult. Ooh. Um, mm-hmm. Yes. So we go to, you know, we go to class every day. It's the same as, you know, same hours as you did in undergrad. you still have the homework, you still have the exams, but yet you're an adult. You know, we're 24 through 38. 20. 2220. You got my bad. Sorry. I think I, I'm not even 24 yet, so I don't know why I said that. Faith Anton: My mom, I'm 24. I asked my mom how old I was yesterday, and she's like, 25. I was like, you birthed me. Yeah. Like, where were you? Like, I don't know. This is, I Dave Etler: can tell you that this is not an uncommon parenting Yeah. Olivia Jenks: Situation. It's compli. Faith Anton: Sorry. No, you're Katie Choate: good. You're good. And so, just like the understanding that even though we are still in school, like we are adults, this is our future. it's a, I mean, it is a job. You know, we spend all of most, I mean, most of our waking moments, learning about medicine, practicing medicine, doing all things medicine. And so just you trying to understand the fact that, you know, we're getting older, we're mature, we are moving forward, and we're not just because we're taking classes, we're not kids still in school. Yeah. I think that's been tough. Rachel Shulista: Can I ask a tangential question? Of course. And then of course, Olivia, we want your answer too. But, is it challenging? Seeing your friends or people you know who are not in this type of a program, who are like progressing Olivia Jenks: through their life, how do you Faith Anton: manage Olivia Jenks: that? Katie Choate: That's actually kind of funny that you just said that, because that is my boyfriend and i's topic of discussion all the time. As I personally struggle with that. Like all of our non medicine friends are, you know, they're growing up, they're being adults, they're getting married, they're having kids, you know, Faith Anton: they have money, Katie Choate: they're weekends off, they gotta go on vacation. And they're not like, oh, I gotta be back for 8:00 AM lecture on Monday morning. Or studying Rachel Shulista: every Katie Choate: evening or whatever. Right. So that is really hard to grasp it. And this is something that like I've battled for, I guess the entire time we've been here is a lot of my non-medical friends are all so like local. So just, they're like, Hey, do you wanna hang out? Like, Do you wanna just like pop over to Chicago real quick? And I'm like, yeah, I would love to, but no, I can't. And so I think it is really hard, but it's also important to maintain those friendships, just because they do give you some grounding that's not medical. You can kind of stay tied to the other Dave Etler: world. Yeah. Was that a, was this a surprise to you or did you get it but you didn't really know what it meant? Katie Choate: I think I expected it. I think a lot of people expect it, but they don't. But it was hard to realize what it's actually going to entail. Yeah. Like the actual feeling. Yeah. That's fair of like watching everyone else kind of get to grow up and you feel somewhat in limbo Rachel Shulista: and maybe how you're gonna react to it. Right. That might be, or how Katie Choate: much is that actually gonna bother Faith Anton: you? That's true. Yeah. Yeah. And like to that end, like hopefully those that are listening or just, it could apply to anyone, but to have friends outside of medicine who attempt to understand or actually do understand that like our lives are so much different than theirs and that we can't be the people that they knew. Like we're still the same, but we don't have the time to, you know? Yeah. That we used to put in those relationships, so that's been hard. Yeah. Yeah. Dave Etler: Have you had to reset expectations maybe from your families or. Oh, absolutely. As to what was did, how did you negotiate that? Uh, did you just tell people like, by the way, you're not gonna be able to, I'm not gonna be able to go to that destination wedding, or whatever. Faith Anton: Like, yeah. Well, I actually made a wedding work, which was awesome, but, Olivia Jenks: made a wedding work. the people here do a really good job of like letting you go to major life events, uhhuh, or like, even just like conferences or events that you're really excited about. I got off for the fall to go to my, undergraduate college teams NCAA championship. so like, they do a pretty good job of trying to find ways to let you be a human while also being kind of a robot in medical school. I think weddings Katie Choate: are actually an excused absence if you let them know. Yeah. Weddings are excused. Okay. ahead of time, which I thought was Faith Anton: very interesting and we still have to get to Olivia. But I spoke on the phone too, so, to a friend who goes to a different, program and she was explaining their course load, what they were having to do and just, I mean, great stuff. Right. But I was just overwhelmed with like, oh my gosh, like Carver College of Medicine cares that we get an excellent education cuz like, that's the end game. But like, while we're doing it, like they really care about our, mental wellbeing, which is just, I cannot like, say enough how special and important that is Yeah. To feel supported like that by everyone here. It's a great culture. Yeah. I'm glad to hear Dave Etler: that. Yay. Olivia Jenks: So my thing I didn't know about myself was I always thought that I was a good advocate for myself. but I learned that I needed to be a better advocate for myself, and use the people and resources that we have here to my advantage. I went through like some medical problems in the fall, and ended up needing a surgery. and so I had to rely a lot on not just like my friends, but also the administrators here, and I mean anyone who could help. and so like, I've been in therapy for a really long time. You know, I've been doing like the self-care type things. but just like learning how to interact with the people that seem more scary than they actually are. Dave Etler: Give us an example. The Faith Anton: Deans. Oh, I go hang out with the deans. Lovely human beings. We love the deans. What's scary? Olivia Jenks: yeah, Dr. Shipley Raha was the one who convinced me to chop all my hair off. and well, and Kate? the, yes. Dari, Dave Etler: the two, two, two wonderful women who have short hair. Yes. Olivia Jenks: Yes. I would say like, probably half the women here in upper administration have short hair. Yeah. And I loved it and I've been thinking about it for a really long time, but I didn't have the balls to do it. And then, oh my God, literally, Dave Etler: Kate has the, Has a very similar story about Olivia Jenks: her. Yeah, I know. I heard it. Yeah. Because I was like, how did you have the balls? And she said, I didn't. And my husband chopped them. Chopped it off chopped. Chopped them Faith Anton: off. What? Chopped them hairs. Olivia Jenks: so yeah, so I, I got, her information for her stylist and went to her stylist and it's gone. And it's great. And she looks, and I Dave Etler: love it. Amazing. I know. Like, I can't stop. I honestly, I Faith Anton: couldn't either. When I first saw Olivia, I was like, oh my gosh. We had Katie Choate: a mini photo shoot. Olivia Jenks: Yeah, we did, but my camera was dead, so we had to use the iPhone. You guys are next? Yeah. Oh, you guys are next? No, Faith Anton: I got just Olivia Jenks: chopped off. Rachel. Rachel too. Rachel, this is, did you do it? Rachel o Pixie? Yeah. Rachel Shulista: so I've never desired it to this point. Oh, okay. That's good. So I. Have donated my hair several times. Olivia Jenks: And I like having short hair. Rachel Shulista: it's been a while since I've done that. Olivia Jenks: It's Rachel Shulista: all right. You don't, but I think about it, but when I do it, I have like four separate haircuts where I work Olivia Jenks: up to it. Cuz I'm not very brave, but, and it cost me four times as much. Right, right, right. Women's haircuts are way too expensive. They are. Rachel Shulista: Dave and I have had conversations. He agreed. I think he agreed on record that I'm gonna Faith Anton: cut his hair. Oh my goodness. Why on earth would you agree to that? Actually, I'm just kidding. That's an no idea. Decision. There's lots of forgiveness, spontaneity, because he goes to. Great Rachel Shulista: Clips, which there's nothing wrong with Great Faith Anton: Clips, but not a sponsor. Rachel Shulista: No, he doesn't remember the name of the girl who cuts his hair. And I said, you got a great haircut last time. What's her name? And he goes, I have no idea. I was like, well how are Olivia Jenks: you ever gonna duplicate this? And I said, I Rachel Shulista: could cut your hair. And he's got this curly, curly mop that Olivia Jenks: is very, I like the curly mop is forgiving. Gorgeous. That Rachel Shulista: is curly. It's forgiving that it's curly. Like you don't know. I tell you what, how than it is. Dave Etler: I've, I don't wanna belabor cuz I've talked about it on the show before, but, I have had, I have a recurring dream or I had a recurring dream where I had long hair. And I know it's like, interesting. Why would, Faith Anton: we need someone to do research on dreams, someone figure 'em out. Dave Etler: and so within, in the past, like, I don't know, year, 18 months, I've just let it kind of usually get much. I used to have a, basically a buzz cut. How long, how are you talking? How long? I sometimes shoulder length, like super wavy. Like were you a hippie? No, I mean, this is the point I think is that I always, you're days I always had very short hair was like, and then I don't know, something about, I think something about the pandemic and my, my daughter growing her hair out and all kinds of stuff, like made me go, I wonder what that would look like. And then I did it and it's, it's been a lot of fun. Sometimes I look at it and I'm like, all right. Other Faith Anton: times I look at it, oh, my picture behind you, you did used to have short hair, didn't you? Yeah. Even shorter than that. Dave Etler: Wow. And what's buzzed you? that's basically like, that used to be the old, like the old version of Dave hasn't gone to the. To get a haircut in a while. All right. Anyway, point is, do something different with your hair. it's very Olivia Jenks: freeing. Yeah. Yeah. Do something. Change is good. It's, yeah, it feels really good. Yeah. And you never know until you do it. Right. Faith Anton: I did have one more comment to make on your question, Rachel. Just like the, okay. Discovery. So like, I've always liked being, and also I wanna say, I don't normally sound like a cow, but I have lost my voice. Sorry. My brother told me I sound like a dang cow. Cow. I do. Cuz I don't usually have this low of a voice. All right. She, her parents Olivia Jenks: live on a farm, so it makes sense. You have cows? Yes. Dave Etler: Yes. I mean, I don't know from Olivia Jenks: cows. So her bowl is named Raul. Faith Anton: Olivia has lovely photos if you would like to see them. I have lovely photos. okay. anywho advocacy. So like how you've changed or How I have changed in PA school is, I've always enjoyed being in leadership positions and being able to like, help people along the way and lead, like, I don't need to. Be a huge showy leader or anything. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think I've found while being here, that however I've, whatever talents or abilities I have, like I can also like influence people for the better. And I think I've reflected on that on my drive home actually, like the 600 miles that I drove and, like I think that I could use it for not good things and to manipulate totally. I mean, we're human. We have the propensity to be like good or evil. but I really would hope that in my future career that I could use that for like patients or just, yeah, I mean the community in general advocate for PAs our profession. I mean, we just had, HSB 4 24 just pass like in the state of Iowa, like, which is, I won't go on about that for a long time, but like that's a big deal when it comes to, Increasing access to patient care in Iowa, especially rural Iowa. So Olivia Jenks: is that where you can practice on your own and not under the license Faith Anton: of a physician? Yes. And that's free. I get the contention over it. I really do. but it's freeing for both the PA because, I mean, you have years of practice as a PA and I mean, you know your stuff, you know what you're doing. so it's nice to be able to, you know, go and do that. and then for physicians not to have to constantly be monitoring and signing off on notes and, you know, being financially and legally liable for someone who's not them, like, I don't know what, Dave Etler: yeah. yeah, and I know that, some of our listeners will probably fall on one side of the, the advanced practice providers. Like I said, it's, or the other. Yeah, no, I mean, we've had discussions on the show about this before and how, you know, it doesn't seem, the gist of it was that this whole division, the way it's divided up now doesn't seem all that compelling. I don't wanna speak for everybody in the room or even everybody, you know, who listens, but the consensus, at least of the people in the room at the time we had the discussion with, and just doesn't seem that important, a distinction. I mean, I understand why some people feel, well, Olivia Jenks: I was also a little different because, well, one, I'm pretty sure doesn't the law require that you have two years under a physician before you can do this independent. Faith Anton: That was, one of the, oh gosh, Olivia, help me with my legal words. proposed, like Olivia Jenks: proposed amendments or something like Faith Anton: that. Yes. And then like the house, like, oh yeah. It was a proposed, that's the word. Thank you. it was, and, I think I would check the legal documents again actually, cuz I can't remember if that actually ended up passing as part of the bill, but part of me thinks that it didn't. and that's why this is an issue because I could graduate in December 24 and go and do that. Right. But I think you'd be hard pressed to find a PA student that like, wants that as a goal. Like if we wanted to go out and practice like on our own right away, we'd be like, we would be a doctor. That would be, I don't want that for myself right away. I wouldn't trust myself to do that right away. Yeah. So, I'm gonna be competent. We're all gonna be competent. My class is brilliant. Dave Etler: but you need some time to learn to mature as a clinician Yeah. I, that makes sense to me. So Faith Anton: it's not like a scope creep thing. Like, I'm not ever going to say, I'm doing what these, and these two are like, my best friends don't friends in med school. I ne like, or about any med student. Dave Etler: You don't come at a, you don't come at a of any grad school and be like, dean of the university. Right. It's just not how it works. There's a career path, you know, like, Olivia Jenks: okay. I was also a little different since a lot of our providers, our PAs in Iowa Come from Iowa's med program. like they're training with us. And so I feel like this is like a unique setup for most PA Dave Etler: schools to have. I think it's the, I feel like it's one of Olivia Jenks: the, one of the only, right? Yeah. And so the fact that they train with us makes me feel. Pretty much entirely competent, confident in like, how they're gonna be as providers in the future. Yeah. I think that's one thing that's unique to Iowa that makes me more inclined to support the bill. Mm-hmm. Dave Etler: And as a rural state, right, right. Um, it can be hard for people to, to find, you know, a provider. So any sort of provider. Olivia Jenks: Yeah. I could Faith Anton: go on about that for a long time. Cause I hope politics are my future. Maybe. Oh, I don't know, man. Worlds are a oyster. Okay. Dave Etler: We'll see. Yeah. How did you deal with the difficulties and what achievements are you proud of? Olivia Jenks: I mean, I suppose I can start with everything that happened to me this fall. Dave Etler: yeah. your medical situation, your, yeah. Olivia Jenks: so last June 1st, I had a left, hip arthroscopy. so coming into medical school, I was barely walking. Well, okay. I think at, by that point I was walking, but I really couldn't do much of the like, athletic stuff that I did in my undergrad yet. and as that was happening, I started having some pretty severe back pain. and along with the advocacy stuff, I knew that it was a pretty severe herniated disc. Faith Anton: she had foot drop. She looked like we were walking to like an exam or something. She's like, faith, watch me walk. Do I have foot drop? Yeah. And I was like, oh Olivia Jenks: my gosh. Yeah. And then like, yeah. So walking into one of our exams, I realized that it was like, I. Pretty bad. And so then, like Tuesday of our Thanksgiving week, I went and had a laminectomy and microdisectomy that doesn't sound pleasant. And then couldn't carry more than 10 pounds until the end of Faith Anton: December. Okay. And get this, I went and visited her when she was in recovery. She was like, still high on whatever they gave you, talking to me like so intelligently about something medical. And I was like, how? Like what? Like, I mean it was funny, but I was like kind of expecting like loopy. I don't, but no. Olivia Janks is gonna talk about medicine and science. Olivia Jenks: Love that. So you just came and visited me while I was coming out? Yeah. It was nice. I got her iced Faith Anton: chips. You know, I think if I ever, maybe I Olivia Jenks: just came up with that in my mind. Cause it's a nice memory Dave Etler: if I ever need surgery here and y'all. come to visit me. I'm going to institute a no cell phones rule so that I don't end up on YouTube or like that. Cause I haven't, I would not do that to anyone. I have this fear that somebody's gonna record me and I'll be like saying insane things. Olivia Jenks: I wanna say insane things. Well, I mean, would that help you Faith Anton: be one of those weird people move up in the rankings of top 10 most influential people? It's a good point. You could say something really just like really profound. Yeah. Just like rock the world and just, I'm Dave Etler: going to guess that such an utterance would not happen in my guess. Fair. I think I'd be more likely to put myself immediately in the bottom 10%. Olivia Jenks: Katie, how are you coming out of anesthesia? Katie Choate: Oh, honestly, doesn't really, like, I think I'm normal-ish. I'm allergic to pain. Are you normal though? no, but I'm allergic to pain meds, so I like, they just shoot me up with some liquid Tylenol or something and like pretend it's all good. Okay. So I think I'm like in too much pain to like be loopy. Faith Anton: Childbirth will be okay for you then. That's good. You're prepared for No, for Nick's babies. Katie Choate: No. His 99 percentile has Faith Anton: high pain. Oh dear. Women, were amazing. You are in the presence of greatness, sir, for women for Dave Etler: sure. Absolutely. I'm aware of that, did you guys have triumphs? Olivia Jenks: oh Faith Anton: yeah. Sorry. we made it. Dave Etler: I mean, yeah, that is a triumph. Faith Anton: I, I don't know. I mean, I could say something lame, like doing well on an exam that you worked hard for. Yeah. But I think like, no, I, I mean, like, triumphs are, I think keeping in mind that our time here at school or time in life is limited and figuring out what you value the most. Cause I mean, I don't know. Why do we start caring about life and about people in our lives and the things we do when our time is actually limited? You know, like if we're sick and dying, for example, like, just take it. I don't know. I don't know. That's when people like really start caring. So like, I just was like, you know, time is limited. It could be like limited to the next minute. I don't know. So So you're Dave Etler: saying care Olivia Jenks: now? Faith Anton: Care now, yeah. Care about everything. Like prior, like figure out what you value and then live for that. And that can be school and a whole bunch of things. I'll say Olivia Jenks: Faith did a really good job of figuring out her work-life balance. Yeah, you did. And I wish that I did a better job of that. Dave Etler: Well, why, what made faith special in her Olivia Jenks: ability Faith Anton: to do? Yeah. I'm interested. Olivia, what did you Olivia Jenks: observe? Well, so, so like you can tear Faith Anton: me apart here. I don't care. Not like we have to share a car everywhere. Right? Olivia Jenks: I mean, I think you sort of learned where you were at in school and what you wanted from it, and you were able to like, Find that limit of where you were with studying and like the point where it became not worth the time for it. And you definitely found the time to put in like a solid exercise routine and like making yourself good food. And like those kinds of things came first before studying, and that's something that I really need to keep working on. I have the propensity to just dig my head into my notebook and not come out of it for hours and hours. Dave Etler: Yeah. I am, I'm glad you did that. I mean, I feel like, as often as I can,I tell, people too don't, just, don't come to medical school and just put your head down. Oh, no. Faith Anton: Experience it wherever you, listeners, wherever you end up going. whatever you end up doing in life, just embrace all of it. Olivia Jenks: Medicine isn't the only thing. Dave Etler: Don't just put your head down and do only medical school. it's not going to be fun. It's not going to, it's gonna be torture. I think. it may feel like you're relieving some sort of anxiety and I don't know, maybe you are over, over your performance and all that kinda stuff, but, you know, consider also doing other things, and doing them purposefully because, you know, if you kind of approach this as, you know, I'm gonna do these things that are important to me as I have time to do them. It's not gonna, I don't think it's gonna work out real well. Olivia Jenks: Well, so the other thing too is like in undergrad there was a point where you were done with your work. In medical school, you can find something to work on, no matter the time or the place or how much studying you did that week or like even after an exam week. You know, like our exams are on Fridays and most people take that Friday evening just completely off and don't do anything. But it's not like there isn't other material, you know? Yeah. You Dave Etler: can always keep going. You can always, there's always gonna be another test soon. Right. And Olivia Jenks: so like, And Faith Anton: burnout is real, is so, yeah, we, I think we've avoided that, but hearing stories like it's, yeah, you want to avoid that at all Olivia Jenks: costs, so, so that transition from there being an end to work and there being no end to work, I think is maybe what trips people up as far as finding that balance. Is this an Dave Etler: internal pressure? That you feel to keep working or is it an external Faith Anton: pressure? You love this question? Both. What does that mean? I dunno. I just feel like I've heard, I do love Dave Etler: this question. Yes. Yes. You know why? Because I asked it. I'm just Fair enough. Touche. Touche. Faith Anton: Okay. Olivia Jenks: One, one of the things that the three of us talk about is like, we're not just studying for this exam, we're studying to take care of patients. And so, Ooh, sometimes it's hard to keep that out of your head and you're like, I want to know as much as I can for my patients in the future. But you also have to understand that like you need to take care of yourself for your patients too. Because if you don't take care of yourself, then. You're not gonna be practicing medicine for your whole life. You, you won't, you'll get burnt out. Especially for Katie Choate: us, like when you, we only have two weeks to get through in the whole unit of Faith Anton: material. Or, first semester we only had one wind exam every single week. Right. Semester you Katie Choate: don't have the time to get lost in something. Like, yes, you can find something very interesting and like wanna deep dive it, but like, you also have to keep it in mind that you still have to get through everything else. like as much as you would like, To understand it in more depth, you do have to kind of reel it back in and be like, okay, we can revisit this later when you do have a little bit more time. Rather than, you know, spending six hours on one topic. Yeah. Faith Anton: Yeah. And I would say, so we live in the same apartment, complex listeners. If you ever need a place to live in Iowa City, aspires amazing. And they're getting like some garden, I think community garden. But anyway, great place. not a sponsor. Not a sponsor, sorry, not a sponsor. we've adopted like really, I like the way that US three study together because I mean, can you memorize medical material? Absolutely. You can do that. Is it gonna be gone from your brain? Pretty rapidly after you take the exam. You'd like to think not, but it is. So like we, and actually I'm gonna give a shout out to Dr. Sipa here. who taught us neurology for semester Man is like, love sipa. He walks on water for me, honestly. Mm-hmm. But he, he said that the best way to learn is like through, it's challenging cuz passive learning is easy just reading stuff but like talk it through with peers, work through problems and that like that's what we do. And those are like the best exams I've ever taken is like when you actually struggle with the material and like integrate it in your brain. Somehow make it relate to what else you've learned. So Katie Choate: I think just a funny sidebar. Off of that is like we to, you know, at the end of school you kind of get a little, or the year you get a little loopy and study becomes hard. So we ha we've taken some topics and just like related it back to our own lives. And I'm gonna tell you, I've never will forget gallstones Faith Anton: ever. No. Poor sending cholangitis, acute cystitis. Nope. Nope. What was the other biliary colic, right? No. Olivia Jenks: come up with Dave Etler: the stupidest, feel like there's a lot of stories behind this. Stories Faith Anton: that is not for the recording, that's all. Katie Choate: That's all right. But it does stick. Yeah. Dave Etler: Yeah. I think, the difference between pre-med or, you know, pre-health care and. Or one of the big differences between pre-health care students and medical PA students is that, you know, when you're a medical and PA student, you're surrounded by people who are doing the same thing as you are in your school. Whereas, you know, if you're a pre-health or whatever, you have probably have friends who, a lot of friends who aren't, and so maybe you feel, I would suspect you feel a little bit more siloed. but when you get to med school, because you're surrounded by all these people, you can live through it together and really sort of work with each other to I know you can seek that sort of thing out when you're. a pre-med and probably do, Faith Anton: but by that same token, comparison is also a bitch. Sorry. Comparison Dave Etler: is a thief of Olivia Jenks: joy. It is. We just talked Faith Anton: about this, so like yeah. Guard yourself against that because you Olivia Jenks: don't do that. Faith Anton: Don't do that. Don't guard yourself against Olivia Jenks: comparison. No, don't,no. Oh, Faith Anton: don't compare yourself with others. Oh, right now. Right. For sure. Rachel Shulista: Okay, so everything that you have learned and taken away from year one, what are some practices or intentions that you are Olivia Jenks: taking with you into the fall? My favorite thing is that on Friday mornings of our exams, everyone sends pictures of their pets in our Oh, that's fantastic. And it's amazing. Glock, flecking Learning community, Glock Flecking Learning community. It's amazing. It is. It's all for our Katie Choate: learning communities put together. Faith Anton: Yes. PAs and med students. Great time. It's hilarious. It's literally just our class. Ryan Williams, if you're listening, beer. Live for that on Fridays. Olivia Jenks: okay. So you're gonna keep not an endorsement of excessive alcohol Faith Anton: use. No, absolutely not. That is not how one, like socializing Yes. Relationships. Yes. Like go out and socialize, but no, do not cope with things. Take it easy with substances. Take it Olivia Jenks: easy. Dave Etler: Okay. So you're gonna keep sharing Olivia Jenks: pictures, I guess, is that? Yeah. So we're gonna keep sharing pictures and if we don't then I'm gonna get mad. What other, Dave Etler: practices. Will you continue, do you think? Faith Anton: for me this is like one of the first things we learned in, I think it was CAPS I have never been surrounded by so many acronyms. Yes. my family hates me for it. Oh my gosh. Because it becomes like a second language to us as we just like live this life, but so confusing at first. But anyway, in caps clinical and professional skills, one of the first lessons was about listening and how to listen to people and let your patient tell their story. And like, for healthcare providers and then also just, I mean, for me, in personal conversations, Just like, we want to interrupt, we want to relate our experiences to other people because like, that's exciting. Human beings love connection. but for me, like, and I'm a talker, like that was just a good reminder to like, whoa. Like you don't matter right now. let them say their peace. So Dave Etler: yeah. There's a difference between connecting with your patients based on shared experiences Versus, making your encounter with them about you. Olivia Jenks: Yeah. Faith Anton: I imagine like they come to you because they know you know this stuff. Yeah. Like they know that you can relate in some way or help them. Yeah. They don't need to hear. The, I dunno Dave Etler: the details. You can, yeah. You can be like, oh yeah, I've had something similar happen to me. I understand. Yeah. how have your interactions with peers and faculty shaped your experiences? Olivia Jenks: Well, I mean, it convinced me to chop my hair off. I mean, there Dave Etler: was that, Olivia Jenks: the faculty are great. You Dave Etler: have literally reshaped Olivia Jenks: your head. I literally reshaped my head. yes. shout out to Audra for the snacks in Osac. Faith Anton: Oh. And just conversation and being amazing. Olivia Jenks: Human being. Yes. yeah, I don't know. Like, I feel a whole lot more comfortable talking to people in that are like supposed to be superior to me. But like our professors, colleagues, our professors are like super chill. And very approachable. That's one thing that I wasn't expecting actually. I wasn't sure that all of our professors were gonna be approachable humans. but the vast majority of them are, I feel like, oh, yeah. That's Dave Etler: good to hear. Yeah. Yeah. That's been my sense as well, Faith Anton: I would agree Katie Choate: with that statement. You know, sometimes clinicians get a bad rap, of just like being, you know, mean embarking orders all of the time and just yelling individuals. But no, all of our professors have, for the most part, been really good about, you know, answering questions whenever you have any, like, they encourage you to ask questions and be curious about what they're, teaching you on is because all of our lectures are taught, like each subject is taught by, somebody who's in that field, And works with those that like subset of patients every day. So we don't have the same lecture, each lecture that we have. and I think that fosters a really good environment in regards to communication as well. So like, we're not nervous to ask them questions, and then they can answer them to whatever degree they would like. So that's been really helpful. Dave Etler: yeah, I know they do try to be pretty accessible to you guys. Yeah. Yep. And open and that's, yeah, that's always helpful. I hope it's that way at all medical schools. Cause I can't imagine how you would do this without the strong support of everybody around Faith Anton: you and just like, belief that we can do it. Yeah. You know, like they, I mean, again, PA student here and like our faculty is, I will never stop seeing the praises of the people in that office. and then my interactions with, the medic, like MD professionals also, like they'd. They want to draw out the best in you, they wanna challenge you. And like, if you're willing to like, take that plunge, like they're gonna be there to walk that with you. and that's just been, really inspiring I think. And someday we can be that for people too. Yeah. I mean, that's my goal. Dave Etler: it's interesting you mentioned,clinicians who, you know, bark and all that kind of stuff. and I think sometimes that's born out of, you know, the need to get something done right now kind of thing. Right. We are doers. I mean, we have to Well, I mean, there are things that you have to do right now. Yes. Right. Like, or, you know, or maybe if you don't get out of the way, there's gonna be a problem. And so they'll, you know, they might take a,a tone with you that you might not otherwise appreciate. But I think it's usually just out of. You know, the need to have something happen right now. Faith Anton: Yeah. I was reading a book called Crucial Conversations. Don't remember who by, but, like just one of the, lines, and I'm gonna paraphrase, but it really stuck out to me, but like, you know, the electrical circuitry in your brain, like for having a thought, right? Like electricity travels quickly, gets to the places in the brain that tell 'em to release like hormones so that you feel the feelings whether they're bad or good. So, I mean, in that instance with the clinicians that have like snapped or in like any of our lives where we just react in a way that isn't the best. I think when you are around a person that, has behaved that way, just like allow the chemicals, the hormones to catch up with the electricity, I Dave Etler: think. Oh, sure. Yeah. I think what you're saying, yeah. Like, yeah, give yourself a few minutes to. Yeah. Faith Anton: So that like to moderate your blood can just like circulate more and clear all that stuff out. And then like, there's hopefully Dave Etler: baseline again, it's like how if you have an anxiety attack or a fear Yeah. or you're, you suddenly become afraid of something. It takes what, like 15 minutes for that feeling to fade so Faith Anton: that you can, oh, what do we learn first? Like I always thought like if you're feeling anxious, like take deep breaths in, right? But we learned like it's actually on the lengthy exhale that's what slows your heart right down. Does that, what is that? Is that like, is there some pressure? Someone you help? Yeah. I look to Olivia for everything. Science. Science girl. Olivia Jenks: Go ahead. I mean, I don't know what the word is for it, but if listeners at home you would like to try this, check your pulse and breathe in, and you'll notice that your heart rate increases. Mm-hmm. And then breathe out really slowly and you'll notice that it decreases. And so one of the techniques that a lot of psychologists use is called box breathing, where you breathe in for four seconds, hold for four seconds, breathe out for four seconds and hold for four seconds. and the goal of that is to activate your parasympathetic nervous system Ah, so that you can, that's calm down. It also slows your heart rate really nicely. You did it. Thanks. Faith Anton: You did. It's funny. So Olivia and I actually met, we were anatomy lab partners, so I guess shout out to Dr. Menti for that. But yeah, random chance. And then like I said, these two here are. We're living together. Best friends this year? Yes, we are. Yes. With her cat. With my Olivia Jenks: cat and our plants. What's your cat's name? Callie. Cute. Faith Anton: Scary. She's also called lump. Did you say she's scary? She's scary. Olivia Jenks: okay, so my cat has really severe anxiety. Oh, also Katie's, Dave Etler: you tell her to take a breath. Katie Choate: I'm cat them too. Oh, no. I live below, like, Olivia Jenks: floor below. But so she has such bad anxiety that she lives inside of my bed under the covers and no one knows how she breathes. and doesn't Wow. Asphyxiate, that's Faith Anton: going on the word list. Olivia Jenks: Yeah, that'll go on the word list. My pronunciation list as Faith Anton: well. Olivia Jenks: yeah. So apparently she's scary. Faith Anton: She's ulence. Dave Etler: She sounds like not scary. She, she's not scary. Is she? Rachel Shulista: Sounds like not scary. Bonded to you? Yeah. Olivia Jenks: Oh, okay. Yeah, like, as soon as I lay down and like turn out the lights or take a nap or whatever, she's completely a different cat. She sounds Dave Etler: more scared of you, Katie then. I don't like cats. She's okay. Oh, she probably sounds all right now It comes out well. Yeah. You're in Katie Choate: the wrong room. Cats don't like me either. Faith Anton: Hey. At least she's owning it. It's okay. She likes dogs though. I do. I have an animal hater. Katie Choate: Yeah. No, I'm not an animal hater. Saved just cats. Her Faith Anton: dog's lovely. Yes. Thank you. They, she and, her boyfriend rescued Lou, so I did. Dave Etler: How is it owning a pet? how is it owning pets in medical school? Olivia Jenks: I mean, Kelly's really easy. Yeah, Katie Choate: Lou is not she so we went in to get a, an adult dude dog. we walked in that an adult dude, dog. Yeah. Nick wanted a boy and I was like, whatever. And, we walked out with a like six month old female puppy. Um, Faith Anton: it has been, Katie Choate: puppies are hard to resist. Yeah, they are. They really are. she is. she's very high energy, let's put it that way. She's a lab jacker. Russell Terrier loves to run. She likes to eat. She caught a chipmunk the other day Faith Anton: up on the hill. We're gonna have to give you pictures. Was that going along with the eating thing? Did she eat it well? Oh no. I pulled Katie Choate: her away before she could like, but I could hear it like dying in the house. Oh my God. Dave Etler: I have seen, I'm trying, I have seen pictures of your dog because you sent my, you sent them. Faith Anton: Oh, right. Oh yes. Oh, pictures of my dog. Yes. Cuz I'm Katie Choate: not a selfie girl. Dave Etler: you gave me two selfies. So, so listeners, I asked them to provide me selfies so that I can use them in, video thumbnails. What does that even mean? It means just for the video, like on YouTube, you know, how they have the thing that you see like, Oh, so I asked people to provide me with,with selfies. And I, you guys did, exactly what I asked. And Katie sent me two selfies and then six pictures of her dog. Katie Choate: Yes. I'm not a selfie girl. we actually, I think it was you that I texted. Yeah. Or you texted me and you're like, those selfies are not your facial expressions. People think I'm intimidating and scary, not approachable, which is the word used. she's a tough Faith Anton: cookie. She has an rbf. Yeah, I do. But she's a marshal. I do. Okay. No, actually I'm totally just kidding. She's not. I'm kidding. I did not mean Katie Choate: that. So, so I was like trying to figure out what I was gonna do for these selfies that she wanted, and then I found cute pictures of my dog making the same faces. So I was like, ah, Olivia Jenks: thumbnail can be pets. Dave Etler: I mean, they're, they might be this week I've made a decision, but she's Katie Choate: a lot cuter than I am, so, Aw. Dave Etler: I disagree. But she's awfully cute. Rachel Shulista: It gets better. The puppy thing gets better. Yeah, Katie Choate: she does. As long as she stops eating, the spiders will be great. Oh, my dog Olivia Jenks: eats. She can take care of the spiders for you. Yeah. Doesn't, that isn't, well, she likes to play with Katie Choate: them first. Oh, great. She like bats 'em around with her paw. That's good. And then she'll eat them. Yeah. Olivia Jenks: No. No thanks. Well, Faith Anton: I take 'em outside now. They get Save the bugs. Yeah, no, we save bugs. We save all things. Nope,nope. Dave Etler: Well, I am glad you, made it through your first year, through your first year too. Glad you're still with us in the College of Medicine and, and seem to have, thrived. To some extent well done. And through their first podcast and through their Olivia Jenks: first podcast. Faith Anton: Yeah. I've been saying I was gonna do this. What? I yell you down Literally since day one. Olivia Jenks: Yeah. Yeah. She's been, and then she flicked on you, Faith Anton: Dave. I did, but then I rose to the occasion and I helped you out, didn't I? You sure did. I did. I did. You sure did. Olivia Jenks: Dave, why didn't the MD students get the email? They did? Well, well, Faith Anton: only cuz I told you didn't send it to 'em. Oh, Olivia Jenks: I see. Why did they, did you dislike them Dave Etler: better? No, I honestly, I had gotten halfway through the thing that I wanted to do and then I had to leave. Oh, that's fair. And I was like, I'll just do it tomorrow. But then Faith frigging called me out and was like, what about the M one students? They all said that they didn't get this email. I'm, well, thank goodness Olivia Jenks: we thought you were just calling out all the PA students instead of the. Cause there's only Dave Etler: 25 of them. The M two s and the m threes got an email as well. I Olivia Jenks: know. Okay. Okay, good. Gotcha. Faith Anton: I will be making a return. Don't you worry. I'm glad. Careful what you wish for. I'm glad you didn't gimme first semester. Now you're gonna get too much. I'm too much. Go look Dave Etler: for less. I'm glad to hear the, I have you for another, what? She signed us for two more nine months. Three nine possible months. Oh wow. I just said, wait, what is the right number? Six possible, six possible months between now and, transitions. Olivia Jenks: Yeah. Six months is when, yeah. January, Faith Anton: right? Yeah. I guess there's six. Yeah. Dave Etler: I look forward to it. That's our show. Olivia, Katie, faith, Rachel, thanks for being on the show with us today. Olivia Jenks: Thanks Dave. Thank you. Dave Etler: And what kind of fragrant man swine would I be if I didn't Thank you short coats for making us a part of your week. If you're new and you like what you heard today, you know what to do. We're everywhere. Follow the show wherever you can. Find us on Spotify, apple Podcast, Google Podcast, u2, places like that. the show is made possible by Jennifer Nation, by Carver College of Medicine, studio Government, an ongoing sport from the writing and humanities program. Our music is by Dr. Voxin atse. I'm Dave Etler saying Don't let the bastards get you down. Talk to you in one week.