Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: TMZ RECIEVES NEW EMAIL

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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: TMZ RECIEVES NEW EMAIL · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Breaking news.
0:08
Speaker 2: Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing day thirteen.
0:13
Speaker 1: This as believe it or not.
0:16
Speaker 2: Another missive regarding Nancy Guthrie's kidnapp has just been received.
0:26
Speaker 1: Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
0:29
Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us.
0:31
Speaker 3: Since this case began, Sheriff Chris Nanos has been in
0:34
Speaker 3: the spotlight and now it's being reported that Savannah Guthrie
0:39
Speaker 3: told the sheriff investigating the abduction of her mother, Nancy Guthrie,
0:43
Speaker 3: she doesn't need him. Pemac County Sheriff Chris Nanos he
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Speaker 3: has been under a lot of scrutinies since day one
0:51
Speaker 3: of this investigation. He spoke to Fox News and said
0:54
Speaker 3: that he has talked and texted with Savannah and that
0:57
Speaker 3: she said she has her own people and didn't need him.
1:01
Speaker 3: He goes on to say that the family members have
1:04
Speaker 3: been involved in the investigation. They've been very cooperative. He
1:07
Speaker 3: actually says, whatever we've asked for, they've done. But then
1:11
Speaker 3: he adds this, it was getting crazy out there with
1:14
Speaker 3: allegations about the family. You can't accuse people of horrific
1:17
Speaker 3: crime like that and not have any facts behind it.
1:20
Speaker 3: Now he says that, but in the same interview, he
1:23
Speaker 3: also says no one is really ever ruled out as
1:27
Speaker 3: of today.
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Speaker 2: Joining us in All Star panel, but straight out to
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Speaker 2: Dave Matt Crime Stories Investigative reporter, a new missive regarding
1:38
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie, what happened to Matt?
1:42
Speaker 4: PMZ received a third email from a guy who claims
1:46
Speaker 4: he knows the identity of Nancy Guthrie's kidnapper, but he's
1:50
Speaker 4: changing the rules. If you remember, in his last note,
1:53
Speaker 4: he said he's not being taken seriously and they will
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Speaker 4: not hear from him again. He wanted one bitcoin that
1:59
Speaker 4: was worth about sixty eight thousand dollars at the time.
2:01
Speaker 4: Now this new email says he's contacting TMZ because he
2:06
Speaker 4: doesn't trust law enforcement. He's using TMZ as an intermediary
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Speaker 4: telling authorities you don't trust me, I don't trust you.
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Speaker 4: So now he's suggesting the reward being doubled to one
2:16
Speaker 4: hundred thousand dollars is because of him. It's a he
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Speaker 4: actually says, it's to discredit me. That's why they raised
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Speaker 4: the word to one hundred thousand dollars. Now he says
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Speaker 4: that he wants one hundred thousand dollars the FBI reward.
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Speaker 4: But here's how he wants it. He's asking for a
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Speaker 4: fraction of bitcoin worth about fifty thousand dollars, and in
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Speaker 4: return for that, he will then give up the information
2:41
Speaker 4: and then he expects another fifty thousand in bitcoins. He
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Speaker 4: promises he will not withdraw the first fifty k until
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Speaker 4: the kidnapper is arrested. That is the third email from
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Speaker 4: this guy. By the way, one important change to all
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Speaker 4: of this. In his email, he says that when he
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Speaker 4: gets the initial pain, then he will give up the
3:02
Speaker 4: name of the main individual, referring to the main individual,
3:06
Speaker 4: suggesting that there are accomplices as we've mentioned before in
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Speaker 4: his previous emails. There you go, Nancy.
3:13
Speaker 1: The third email also Dave Matt.
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Speaker 2: Isn't it true that he refers to the current state
3:21
Speaker 2: of Savannah's mother.
3:25
Speaker 1: We don't have specific details.
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Speaker 2: Harvey Levin is not releasing that, but he is referring
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Speaker 2: to Nancy.
3:33
Speaker 1: But I can't assume.
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Speaker 2: That he is saying that she is alive and well,
3:40
Speaker 2: or that she is alive, Otherwise this will be an
3:44
Speaker 2: entirely different report right now.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, because it's not being very specific about it. But
3:51
Speaker 4: again he does refer it to the quote current state
3:54
Speaker 4: of Nancy Guthrie, but he's not alluding to whether it's
3:58
Speaker 4: good bad. It's just that she is alive. But nothing else.
4:02
Speaker 2: This as DNA has been sent to a private lab
4:06
Speaker 2: in Florida. There's a few going on about that. Why
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Speaker 2: not to Quantico. I have strong believe that if we
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Speaker 2: recover DNA, it will be touch DNA.
4:16
Speaker 1: We have a DNA expert joining us.
4:18
Speaker 2: Also, there is a walk back, a switch in the
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Speaker 2: glove and narrative from Sheriff and Nanos, and we learned
4:28
Speaker 2: about a prior investigation by.
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Speaker 1: The FBI into Nanos.
4:32
Speaker 2: Also at this hour, a not so official composite has
4:37
Speaker 2: been released. But I want to go straight back to
4:41
Speaker 2: what's happening right now, and that is the missive now,
4:45
Speaker 2: the third one from the same rat who wants to
4:49
Speaker 2: rat out the rat that took Nancy Guthrie.
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Speaker 1: Okay, there's a lot wrong with this equation.
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Speaker 2: Straight out to Scott Iiker, former fed with the FBI,
4:59
Speaker 2: founding of Cast Cellular Analysis Survey Team now at Pcaexperts
5:07
Speaker 2: dot com Precision Cellular Analysis. Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: You spent years and years with the FBI. This missive
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Speaker 2: is all wrong. Have you ever seen people who go,
5:20
Speaker 2: you're not taking me seriously, well for a reason, or
5:25
Speaker 2: I'm not crazy translation, I'm totally crazy.
5:29
Speaker 1: Same thing here.
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Speaker 5: I agree one of these. When we get these national
5:36
Speaker 5: events like this, and even if it's just a state
5:39
Speaker 5: event or something like that, we can always get numerous,
5:42
Speaker 5: numerous tips or people that want to get involved or
5:46
Speaker 5: want to try to make money off of this, and
5:48
Speaker 5: we got to run them all down. That's the problem.
5:50
Speaker 5: You're taking investigative resources away from what they should be
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Speaker 5: doing to run down this lead and that lead and
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Speaker 5: this lead. So if it's not real, please don't, you know,
6:02
Speaker 5: bring up something like this.
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Speaker 2: Well, it's done now, and I want to go straight
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Speaker 2: to Josh Colesruth joining us. He is a veteran criminal
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Speaker 2: defense attorney joining us out of this jurisdiction Arizona, former
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Speaker 2: federal prosecutor and founder of the Coles Ruth Law Offices. Josh,
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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us tonight. This is a crime.
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Speaker 2: Remember the last guy, Koalelo, He's already been charged under
6:30
Speaker 2: eighteen USC.
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Speaker 1: Eight seventy five. He's got two felony charges.
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Speaker 2: For faking and extortion in exchange for knowledge about Nancy Guthrie.
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Speaker 2: I guess this guy wants to get in line behind him.
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Speaker 6: Well, you know, we don't know yet what this person
6:48
Speaker 6: knows or doesn't know. But you know, what's interesting is that,
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Speaker 6: you know, it appears that at least law enforcement is
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Speaker 6: taking him seriously. They haven't said publicly that it's a hoax,
7:03
Speaker 6: but there are some red flags. You know, you have
7:05
Speaker 6: to wonder why, if he has his information, why he's
7:09
Speaker 6: not calling Silent Witness, because Silent Witness now has a
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Speaker 6: reward or one hundred thousand dollars. So if you have
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Speaker 6: the information, there you go. You know, supposedly, you know,
7:21
Speaker 6: there's information that he may not want to publicly give
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Speaker 6: his information because he doesn't want to be known as
7:27
Speaker 6: a snitch. But you know, if you want the money,
7:29
Speaker 6: you're going to have to take that chance. There's nothing
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Speaker 6: that he's said so far though, that makes me think
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Speaker 6: that he is truthful, is that he has veracity, that
7:39
Speaker 6: he hasn't said anything specific that we don't already know yet.
7:43
Speaker 2: Okay, we don't know that or not know that, but
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Speaker 2: you're right, it is being entertained. And the last Hoaster
7:51
Speaker 2: was not called a Hoaxter until after he had already
7:53
Speaker 2: been arrested. But you just reminded me of something. You
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Speaker 2: take or I take my witnesses as I find them.
8:03
Speaker 2: I have put on the stand nuns, priests, virgins, dope lords,
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Speaker 2: drug addicts, alcoholics that were literally drunk at the time
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Speaker 2: they took the stand. There was nothing I could do
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Speaker 2: about that. You take your witness as you find them.
8:20
Speaker 2: This guy may be a nut in the vernacular, but
8:26
Speaker 2: what if he does know something.
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Speaker 1: Let's just go.
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Speaker 2: Out on that limb of credibility for just one moment
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Speaker 2: to discount him because of his behavior, the wording of
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Speaker 2: the missives, the way he's kind of haggling over the price,
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Speaker 2: the way he's taking credit for the doubling of the
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Speaker 2: reward from fifty to one hundred thousand. Yes, that's bizarre,
8:48
Speaker 2: that's outlandish. But what if he does know something? And
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Speaker 2: something I always argue to jury's Josh Colesrude, who do
8:56
Speaker 2: you think the defendant is hanging around with the folks
8:59
Speaker 2: at the Vatican. No, they're not hanging out with the
9:03
Speaker 2: Church of Deakins or the Rabbi. They're hanging out with
9:06
Speaker 2: people just like them birds of a feather flock together.
9:12
Speaker 2: So it would make sense that the actual purpse hanging
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Speaker 2: out with not the law and orderly type, but a.
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Speaker 1: Guy like this.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, and you make some excellent points about you know,
9:28
Speaker 6: why he might be telling the truth here, And regardless,
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Speaker 6: law enforcement has to either cross him out as a
9:35
Speaker 6: legitimate lead or not. They need to investigate him for
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Speaker 6: a crime that is, you know, giving false information or
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Speaker 6: a false ransom note, so to speak. And if it
9:47
Speaker 6: turns out that it's not a false ransom note and
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Speaker 6: they can't charge him with the same crimes they chose,
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Speaker 6: they charge the other Yahoo. I know, maybe he's legitimate.
9:56
Speaker 6: And until they'll find out whether he is is legitimate
10:00
Speaker 6: or not legitimate, they need to take.
10:02
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us the boy
10:18
Speaker 2: do we need to shrink? She is a renowned psychoanalyst,
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Speaker 2: author of deal Breaker. You can see her now on
10:23
Speaker 2: peacock and you can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall
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Speaker 2: dot com. Doctor Bethany, There's got to be psychological name
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Speaker 2: for this. He suggests the reward has been doubled from
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Speaker 2: fifty thousand to one hundred thousand because of him, that
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Speaker 2: it was just a move designed to quote discredit me.
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Speaker 7: What this reminds me of the media campaign for the
10:50
Speaker 7: Cosmospolitan in Vegas. Their tagline is just the right amount
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Speaker 7: of wrong, which is what this guy is, just the
10:57
Speaker 7: right amount of wrong. But you know, Nancy, what's fascinating
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Speaker 7: to me is I feel like I kind of have
11:02
Speaker 7: a sense of the profile of this person, which could
11:04
Speaker 7: be helpful. Whoever this person is, I'm pretty sure it's male.
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Speaker 7: The way he's bargaining, there's a shallow, immature quality. You know,
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Speaker 7: give me fifty K, but I won't spend it until
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Speaker 7: you know blah blah blah. He is very excited by
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Speaker 7: this crime. I'm guessing he's very preoccupied thinking about it
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Speaker 7: twenty four to seven, talking to friends about it. Yes,
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Speaker 7: he may tangentially know something about this crime. His thought
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Speaker 7: process and reasoning is very shallow. So what I would
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Speaker 7: wonder is there anybody who has a family member male,
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Speaker 7: a teenager, twenty something year old, who is constantly talking
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Speaker 7: about this crime, who's talking everybody's ear off about it.
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Speaker 7: I would wonder if the FBI puts out a request
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Speaker 7: for leads or tips towards somebody who keeps breaking that
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Speaker 7: they're going to make money this crime.
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Speaker 2: Well, hold on just a moment, Doctor Bethany Marshall straight
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Speaker 2: back out to Brian Fitzgibbons, who is joining us Director
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Speaker 2: Operations USPA Nationalwide Security. He leads a team of investigators
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Speaker 2: finding missing people all around the world at uspasecurity dot Com,
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Speaker 2: also former marine and Iraqi war vet. Okay, Brian, you
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Speaker 2: heard what Dr Bethany said. Let's track this guy down.
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Speaker 2: Why do we have time to track down a hoaxer?
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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know how difficult it's going to
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Speaker 2: be to get the IP address. Probably not that hard.
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Speaker 2: That's iikers Billywick. But this guy is directly contacting TMZ,
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Speaker 2: so he can be tracked down. But do we want
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Speaker 2: to dilute law enforcement to chase him down? Isn't that
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Speaker 2: kind of chasing down a rabbit hole?
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Speaker 8: It's absolutely worth the effort here, Nancy, even if for
13:02
Speaker 8: the simple purpose of eliminating Uh, this is authentic.
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Speaker 9: You saw with.
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Speaker 8: Derek Kalela, the Los Angeles person who was the hoaxter. Uh.
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Speaker 8: The FBI made an extensive post today. Uh, they're gonna
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Speaker 8: throw the book at him. And make an example out
13:20
Speaker 8: of him. So if this is indeed a hoaxter, we
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Speaker 8: need to eliminate him and we need to make another
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Speaker 8: example out of him to uh, you know, really dissuade
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Speaker 8: people from doing this in the future as this unfolds.
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Speaker 1: What do you mean.
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Speaker 2: They're gonna throw the book at him and explain describe
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Speaker 2: what the FBI stated.
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Speaker 8: I think that the d o J and their statement
13:45
Speaker 8: today about Kalela, they're not gonna buy his his information
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Speaker 8: that he just you know, wanted to see if they'd
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Speaker 8: answer his text or whatever. They're gonna They're gonna make
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Speaker 8: sure whatever charges they can bring against Derek Kilella for
14:03
Speaker 8: hoaxing that ransom demand to the Guthrie family, they will
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Speaker 8: bring those charges heavily against him. And it's important here
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Speaker 8: with a case like this that has this amount of
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Speaker 8: media media attention, that we really do everything in our
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Speaker 8: power to dissuade that misinformation coming in.
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Speaker 2: If I could get the control room to run back
14:24
Speaker 2: through the photos and show me the photo of Nancy
14:28
Speaker 2: Guthrie with her little little black dog and she's looking
14:32
Speaker 2: directly at the camera as all of us is so
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Speaker 2: called experts. Yeah, that one are talking about eighteen USC
14:44
Speaker 2: eight seventy five, and the penalties and the minutia of
14:49
Speaker 2: tracking a email or a text to TMZ look at her.
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Speaker 2: That's what's at stake right now, her her life.
15:00
Speaker 1: Is she dead? Is she alive? Is she hurting? Is
15:04
Speaker 1: she calling out for her children? Is she crying?
15:08
Speaker 2: Is she in her room where the windows are blacked
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Speaker 2: out and she's in the dark. Have they given her
15:14
Speaker 2: anything to eat? Has she had any medications? Do they
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Speaker 2: let her go to the bathroom? Can she stand up
15:22
Speaker 2: and walk around? Just the thought? Is she crying right now?
15:29
Speaker 2: Is she calling out for her children? This is about
15:34
Speaker 2: a real person with a real family that is suffering
15:39
Speaker 2: real pain right now.
15:42
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that Gibbons reported that.
15:45
Speaker 2: Z OJ is going to seek the max on this guy,
15:49
Speaker 2: because that is a tick, a parasite sucking the blood
15:53
Speaker 2: out of the family, and law enforcement trying to bring
15:57
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie home every day. Those are new up and
16:01
Speaker 2: a new down. People's hopes were dashed when Peluzuelas was released.
16:07
Speaker 2: Carlos Palozuela's had nothing to do with this incident. I
16:11
Speaker 2: believe he was singled out because his phone popped up
16:15
Speaker 2: in her Nancy's neighborhood so many times, at various times
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Speaker 2: of the day and night. He's a delivery person. I
16:21
Speaker 2: think they isolated him because of that. They haven't said that,
16:24
Speaker 2: but I am deducing that.
16:27
Speaker 1: Ups downs.
16:28
Speaker 2: Then he was released and we all woke up just
16:31
Speaker 2: defeated because it meant we had gotten nowhere starting basically
16:35
Speaker 2: all over. But her life is at stake, and isn't
16:40
Speaker 2: it true? Scott Iker, formerly with the FBI that ransoms
16:45
Speaker 2: for money kidnappings of this.
16:47
Speaker 1: Ilk are very very rare.
16:53
Speaker 5: They are very very rare. Only two or three that
16:56
Speaker 5: I've worked in my whole career, and most of those
16:59
Speaker 5: were drug Really someone owed money for drugs and they
17:02
Speaker 5: kidnapped a family member, or kidnappings coming from Mexico, or
17:08
Speaker 5: often money for ransom. Hey we'll give you your brother
17:13
Speaker 5: back if you send us all this money. So in
17:17
Speaker 5: this type of situation where we've got an elderly female,
17:21
Speaker 5: not involved in drugs, not involved in anything other than
17:24
Speaker 5: just living out her life, this is very unusual the
17:27
Speaker 5: behalf of ransom situation.
17:30
Speaker 2: I've had plenty of kidnaps, but not ransoms for money.
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Speaker 2: A joining me now, Joseph Scott Morgan Professor Forensics Jacksonville
17:39
Speaker 2: State University, has an incredible criminal procedure and crime program,
17:44
Speaker 2: author of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon. He's a
17:47
Speaker 2: star of a hit podcast series, Body Bags with Joseph
17:51
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan. And not only that, he is a death
17:54
Speaker 2: investigator that has investigated over ten thousand death sayings.
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Speaker 1: Of all sorts.
18:02
Speaker 2: At this hour, we're having a DNA feed Joe Scott.
18:07
Speaker 2: I just want you to hear Dave Matt explain the
18:10
Speaker 2: alleged feud between the FBI and Sheriff Nanos.
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Speaker 1: What happened, Dave?
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Speaker 4: We have the Sheriff Nanos has a lab in Florida
18:21
Speaker 4: that has been used by the county in previous in
18:26
Speaker 4: previous incidents, and apparently, from what we're told, Sheriff Nanos
18:33
Speaker 4: sent DNA from the crime scene to this lab in
18:38
Speaker 4: Florida rather than allowing the FBI to take it to
18:42
Speaker 4: Quantico to test it there. And the dollar figure is
18:46
Speaker 4: in the two hundred thousand dollars range that has been
18:51
Speaker 4: paid in county funds to this lab in Florida to
18:54
Speaker 4: do this DNA testing. And we're not even sure if
18:58
Speaker 4: we're talking about DNA from inside the house that he
19:01
Speaker 4: talked about that man has talked about earlier or on
19:05
Speaker 4: the front porch.
19:07
Speaker 2: Okay, DNA DNA whether it's from inside the house at first,
19:11
Speaker 2: and I fitz Gibbons has an insight on this.
19:13
Speaker 1: At first we.
19:14
Speaker 2: Were told there was a glove and DNA in the house.
19:16
Speaker 2: Now we're told there is no glove in the house.
19:18
Speaker 2: We do know there were either one or two gloves
19:21
Speaker 2: down on the side of the road. There you see
19:23
Speaker 2: agents checking the side of the road and it paid off.
19:27
Speaker 2: About one point five miles from Nancy Guthrie's home. Two
19:30
Speaker 2: gloves were found, gloves that closely resemble the ones worn
19:35
Speaker 2: by the perp. This video from our friends at Fox
19:38
Speaker 2: News that said to Joseph Scott Morgan Joe Scott, touch DNA.
19:43
Speaker 2: I want to hear your thoughts, because you know, touch
19:46
Speaker 2: DNA can if they're in gloves. If it's on the
19:50
Speaker 2: inside of gloves, that's one matter. If it's on the
19:53
Speaker 2: outside of the gloves, that DNA is very likely compromised
19:58
Speaker 2: in that it's mixed with other d things. The purpose
20:01
Speaker 2: touched maybe Nancy Guthrie herself. This lab is going to
20:04
Speaker 2: have to be able to differentiate isolate, differentiate the mixed DNA.
20:09
Speaker 1: And then they're gonna have to run it through CODIS.
20:11
Speaker 2: If he doesn't have a record, maybe his brother, maybe
20:14
Speaker 2: his uncle, dad, cousin has a record. Then we're gonna
20:18
Speaker 2: have to do genetic genealogy and you know where that goes.
20:22
Speaker 2: I mean, it can turn out really well, like with
20:25
Speaker 2: Joseph DiAngelo the Golden State Killer, but it better be
20:31
Speaker 2: a really good lab and I have my suspicions about
20:34
Speaker 2: which lab it is.
20:35
Speaker 1: But you hit me with the DNA side of this.
20:38
Speaker 9: Yeah, So for me, Nancy, it's all about It's all
20:42
Speaker 9: about consistency and how you're handling this scene and how
20:47
Speaker 9: you're processing potential evidence because just listen, they're saying they
20:51
Speaker 9: sent DNA. You know they didn't. They sent they sent
20:55
Speaker 9: samples that might contain DNA. It's not like this is
20:58
Speaker 9: something that you can visualize. And to your point about
21:01
Speaker 9: the fragility of this, you know, they're taking swabs from
21:06
Speaker 9: various locations points of contact inside of this house, and
21:10
Speaker 9: we'll just talk about the surfaces of the house and
21:12
Speaker 9: if he is doing this, if he's touching these areas
21:15
Speaker 9: with a bare hand, for instance, if he gets comfortable
21:18
Speaker 9: in there. You know, they've talked about this forty five
21:20
Speaker 9: minute or forty minute time period he may have been
21:23
Speaker 9: in there. Did he get comfortable enough and then toss
21:26
Speaker 9: the gloves outside as he's leaving. Well, you have to
21:29
Speaker 9: take into account all of the other contact points in there.
21:33
Speaker 9: Another piece to this, Nancy is I call it the
21:36
Speaker 9: investigative funnel. So you've got a big funnel to the
21:39
Speaker 9: top and you're putting data in there, and you're kind
21:40
Speaker 9: of narrowing it down. Anybody else that's been in that
21:43
Speaker 9: house has to be eliminated. That can be caretakers, family members, workers,
21:49
Speaker 9: anybody else. And so when you're not on the same
21:53
Speaker 9: sheet of music with all of the investigative agencies, it
21:57
Speaker 9: gets very layered and compromised. I would feel much more
22:00
Speaker 9: comfortable as a forensics guy if these samples had gone
22:05
Speaker 9: directly to Quantico, where I know they know the drill
22:09
Speaker 9: and how to process it, and they've got great partners
22:12
Speaker 9: on the outside that they can source for things like
22:15
Speaker 9: investigative genetic genealogy. And so I don't understand what the
22:21
Speaker 9: problem is here, as you well know, because you were
22:25
Speaker 9: you know, you work for the FEDS for a while
22:27
Speaker 9: nancy the force that they can bring to bear in
22:31
Speaker 9: a situation like this, it's like you're cutting your head
22:34
Speaker 9: off to cure the headache. I don't understand it. It
22:37
Speaker 9: makes no sense to me. The inside of that glove though,
22:41
Speaker 9: if we talk about that. For anybody at home, think
22:44
Speaker 9: about this. If you've ever even had on a pair
22:47
Speaker 9: of winter gloves, what are your glove what do your
22:49
Speaker 9: hands do? Well? They sweat right, and you might not
22:53
Speaker 9: even be aware that they're sweating, that your hands are
22:55
Speaker 9: sweating when you peel those gloves off. You're not talking
22:59
Speaker 9: about to DNA. Then you're talking about a rich source
23:02
Speaker 9: of DNA. It's not like a partial DNA strand you
23:06
Speaker 9: know that has to be amplified and all this other stuff.
23:09
Speaker 9: We're talking about sweat that could be inside of this
23:12
Speaker 9: glove that's very very important here, and how it's handled,
23:15
Speaker 9: how it's packaged on the front end, how it's delivered,
23:19
Speaker 9: and then how the exam can be done. So you're
23:21
Speaker 9: talking about two different types of potential DNA here.
23:25
Speaker 2: Also, we were told that there was a glove inside
23:28
Speaker 2: the home.
23:29
Speaker 1: We now hear that being walked back.
23:31
Speaker 2: But I firmly believe that there was DNA evidence inside.
23:36
Speaker 2: All it takes show Scott is one here. Now another thing.
23:40
Speaker 2: Oh guys, the video we were showing you earlier is
23:42
Speaker 2: from ko ld Our Forensic Kold. There's also the aspect
23:47
Speaker 2: of fibers. That's why we need that truck. We need
23:50
Speaker 2: that gray truck if it's gray, white beige, because Nancy
23:55
Speaker 2: Guthrie was bleeding profusely. I believe from the nose. There's
24:01
Speaker 2: no way that they're going to be able to get
24:03
Speaker 2: all that blood out of the truck. It's almost impossible
24:07
Speaker 2: when you go in there with luminol or blue Star,
24:09
Speaker 2: which is next to gen luminol. You'd have to have it,
24:15
Speaker 2: I guess, cleaned by somebody from the crime.
24:18
Speaker 1: Lab right to get it really clean.
24:21
Speaker 2: But think about the potential fibers from his home. This
24:27
Speaker 2: is how Wayne one of the ways Wayne Williams case,
24:30
Speaker 2: a serial killer in Atlanta that killed young boys and teens,
24:34
Speaker 2: how he was caught and my coworker Joe Drew Lait brilliant.
24:42
Speaker 1: Led the charge on getting that evidence.
24:44
Speaker 2: In for the first time in the world and.
24:48
Speaker 1: It was admissible.
24:50
Speaker 2: It was carpet fiber from Wayne Williams home, his parents'
24:54
Speaker 2: home where he lived at that age, and fiber from
24:58
Speaker 2: his vehicle. The fiber in the home.
25:02
Speaker 1: I want to say was green, but it was shag that.
25:06
Speaker 2: Was only made a certain time period and that color
25:12
Speaker 2: and the microfibers, yes, very limited. It could be traced
25:17
Speaker 2: back to their home and it was on the bodies. Also,
25:23
Speaker 2: fibers from his car on the bodies. So there was
25:28
Speaker 2: a plethora of DNA fiber evidence that could have been obtained.
25:36
Speaker 2: I pray to God in Heaven the capture of that
25:41
Speaker 2: evidence was not bungled.
25:45
Speaker 9: Yeah, I do too, And that's one of my biggest
25:47
Speaker 9: worries with this. If we go back one thing I've
25:52
Speaker 9: got to state here that's very troubling to me. You
25:55
Speaker 9: remember the blood deposition that was on the entrance area
25:59
Speaker 9: they you know that we saw and you alluded to
26:02
Speaker 9: it a moment ago. And by the way, I concur
26:04
Speaker 9: with what you're saying. You've got those rather large drops there,
26:08
Speaker 9: that's free falling gravity drop deposition. But if you look,
26:12
Speaker 9: if you look at the little bitty drop that are
26:16
Speaker 9: in between in between those big drops, that's expert nancy.
26:22
Speaker 9: So you've got this blowing out. So yeah, there could
26:24
Speaker 9: be blood in a vehicle, and also discus Bery's hair
26:28
Speaker 9: could be in there, and any clothing she's wearing is
26:31
Speaker 9: unique to her, her fibers will be in there. So
26:34
Speaker 9: this is a big piece of it. And this is
26:37
Speaker 9: so delicate, Nancy, I cannot begin to emphasize how delicate
26:41
Speaker 9: an operation is. When I saw a card stuck in
26:45
Speaker 9: the door where the nestcam was from Adult Protective Services
26:50
Speaker 9: when they had taken down that tape, initially, how in
26:54
Speaker 9: the hell does that happen? How does somebody get access
26:56
Speaker 9: in there and they put a card up there. You
26:58
Speaker 9: can see it where the nest cam was mounted. I'm thinking,
27:02
Speaker 9: this is how we're starting now.
27:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, we investigated that, and I know where you're going.
27:06
Speaker 2: It's not so much who's on the card, it's the
27:10
Speaker 2: fact that somebody could get to that crime scene and.
27:12
Speaker 1: Put a card on the door.
27:14
Speaker 2: So Dave Mack, without revealing the woman's name, didn't we
27:18
Speaker 2: determine that she worked with elder care and was probably
27:23
Speaker 2: like the equivalent of a visiting nurse or a home
27:27
Speaker 2: health worker.
27:29
Speaker 4: It was it was just a business card from something
27:31
Speaker 4: along those lines. Yeah, and just dropped off as a marker.
27:35
Speaker 4: I guess, you know.
27:36
Speaker 2: So Dave mac if you could capsulize for US Nanos
27:41
Speaker 2: Sheriff Nanos's explanation of why he sent the DNA.
27:47
Speaker 1: Instead of the Quantico. He's working with the fans. They're
27:50
Speaker 1: right there trying to help. They're the ones that got
27:52
Speaker 1: the images off the front porch. Instead of using Quantico.
27:56
Speaker 2: For Pete's sake, he used a private lab, which we
27:59
Speaker 2: think to be a Labs International in Florida.
28:01
Speaker 1: Why and a.
28:03
Speaker 4: Nutshell, here's a direct quote from him. Actually, the FBI
28:08
Speaker 4: just wanted to send the one or two they found
28:10
Speaker 4: talking about gloves found by the crime scene closest to
28:13
Speaker 4: it mile mile and a half. I said, no, why
28:17
Speaker 4: do that. Let's just send them all to where all
28:20
Speaker 4: the DNA exists, all the profiles and the markers exist
28:24
Speaker 4: in Florida. And he says they agreed. So he's saying
28:28
Speaker 4: that the FBI was in agreement with him Nanos on
28:32
Speaker 4: sending the information to Florida.
28:35
Speaker 2: Okay, straight back out to Brian thats Gibbons joining US
28:39
Speaker 2: direct to operations USPA Nationwide Security.
28:43
Speaker 1: First, we were told a glove in the house. Now
28:46
Speaker 1: we're told no glove in the house. Why the walk back?
28:49
Speaker 8: Yeah, this has been a bit of a dumpster fire
28:52
Speaker 8: from a PR perspective. You know, we're told initially glove's
28:57
Speaker 8: been found in the house. It's being sent to Florida.
29:01
Speaker 8: Then Sheriff Nanos came out and said, we've found a
29:04
Speaker 8: number of gloves in the course of this investigation, and
29:08
Speaker 8: we don't know if any of them are worth anything
29:11
Speaker 8: or connected to the case. And now this afternoon he
29:15
Speaker 8: had an extensive conversation with a reporter from Fox News
29:20
Speaker 8: where he said that no gloves were found in the
29:23
Speaker 8: house and he doesn't know where this came. We've had
29:27
Speaker 8: some seriously conflicting information about.
29:30
Speaker 1: The crime stores with Nancy Grace.
29:43
Speaker 2: You know what, whether there's a feud or no feud,
29:47
Speaker 2: what we need is teamwork. And I'm sure the Guthrie
29:51
Speaker 2: family doesn't want to hear this. One's not getting along
29:54
Speaker 2: with that one. Nanny Nanny Boo boo. I said this,
29:56
Speaker 2: You said that nobody cares. Just send it to the
29:59
Speaker 2: best law possible because this DNA is very highly integrated
30:04
Speaker 2: with other DNA, highly likely integrated with other DNA if
30:09
Speaker 2: we get anything off those gloves.
30:11
Speaker 1: To start with. And I'll tell you another thing. When
30:14
Speaker 1: Nanos says things like it may not even be connected.
30:19
Speaker 2: Why would you say that, as if it doesn't matter
30:24
Speaker 2: where I send it, It may not even be relevant.
30:28
Speaker 1: That the argument is neat. That does not instill confidence, Fitzgibbons.
30:35
Speaker 8: No, not at all, And I mean, hey, any article
30:38
Speaker 8: found on a crime scene may not be connected to
30:41
Speaker 8: the crime itself, right, That's that's why we go through
30:44
Speaker 8: this process, this forensic process, to investigate and determine that.
30:49
Speaker 2: Or on the other hand, Forsgibbons, it may it may
30:54
Speaker 2: be connected. Also in the last hours, posted on social
30:59
Speaker 2: is a very disturbing video.
31:02
Speaker 1: Let's see the video. Please blur the face.
31:05
Speaker 2: This is a guy very close to on the top.
31:09
Speaker 1: That's what I want to see.
31:11
Speaker 2: This guy was posted by USA News HQ on X
31:17
Speaker 2: and I'm posted it looks very similar to the porch
31:21
Speaker 2: guy outside Nancy Guthrie's home. This guy is in no
31:25
Speaker 2: way a POI, person of interest or a suspect. The
31:30
Speaker 2: point is what time was he out and about in
31:33
Speaker 2: the neighborhood, Dave mac on somebody's porch fiddling with the
31:36
Speaker 2: door cam.
31:38
Speaker 4: It was about five o'clock in the morning, Nancy, and
31:41
Speaker 4: it was on that particular video he shot on January twenty.
31:44
Speaker 2: Third, just about a week before Nancy Guthrie is kidnapped,
31:52
Speaker 2: fiddling with the door cam. Now this guy may very
31:57
Speaker 2: well even live there. My point is is, please everyone
32:02
Speaker 2: within that two mile circumference, that two mile radius, please
32:07
Speaker 2: check your videos, check your door cams, everything you've got.
32:12
Speaker 2: That was from the USA News HQ on X and
32:16
Speaker 2: that is in fact what authorities are asking at this hour.
32:20
Speaker 2: What do you make of that, Josh Coles rude that
32:22
Speaker 2: they are asking everyone within a two mile radius to
32:27
Speaker 2: check video, specifically for a gray truck.
32:33
Speaker 6: Well, you know, I like that they posted this video
32:37
Speaker 6: of this new person, even though he may not have
32:39
Speaker 6: anything to do with it, because I think it encourages
32:42
Speaker 6: other people to do the same thing. And you know,
32:45
Speaker 6: the FBI and the Sheriff's office, you know, they believe
32:49
Speaker 6: at least that maybe the white van had been casing
32:54
Speaker 6: the area, much similar to the Coburger case, where Coburger
32:59
Speaker 6: was case seeing, you know, the multi story house that
33:03
Speaker 6: he later broke into. And so you know, hopefully, you know,
33:07
Speaker 6: people are listening to the show and they start doing
33:11
Speaker 6: what the Sheriff's office is asking for.
33:14
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall let's just proceed with the belief that
33:18
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie is still alive. Okay, Who in the right
33:25
Speaker 2: mind could keep an eighty four year old woman imprisoned
33:28
Speaker 2: in a bedroom or an apartment or who knows, a farmhouse,
33:33
Speaker 2: a seller, a basement. Those are the things that Savannah
33:37
Speaker 2: and her siblings, it's their nightmares where his mom. But
33:41
Speaker 2: what type of mentality, what person, what man can.
33:46
Speaker 7: Do that somebody who's obsessed with her because they see
33:50
Speaker 7: her as a mark, they see her as somebody that
33:53
Speaker 7: they are going to profit off of, and that delights them.
33:57
Speaker 7: That makes her very exciting and debating to them and Nancy.
34:01
Speaker 7: A couple of things that you just brought out on
34:03
Speaker 7: this show. The fact that the blood is from the nose,
34:07
Speaker 7: nose doplets potentially, and that it stops on the doorstep
34:11
Speaker 7: makes me so sad because that means somebody stemmed the
34:14
Speaker 7: bleeding by putting their hand over her face. That's the
34:18
Speaker 7: kind of person who's holding miss Guthrie. And the other thing,
34:23
Speaker 7: when I see some guy fiddling with a camera at
34:26
Speaker 7: five am in a neighborhood, probably where there are many seniors,
34:31
Speaker 7: it makes me wonder, is there some slim possibility that
34:34
Speaker 7: this was not targeted, that somebody was going from doorstep
34:38
Speaker 7: to doorstep trying to find somebody that they could abduct,
34:43
Speaker 7: kidnap something like this. It just opens up more questions
34:47
Speaker 7: to me rather than resolving them.
34:50
Speaker 2: You know, you said something a bat that and it
34:51
Speaker 2: made me think just in that moment, and I'm sure
34:54
Speaker 2: you can verbalize this better than me. But whoever's got
34:59
Speaker 2: Missus Guthrie, She's not even real to them. They're thinking
35:03
Speaker 2: about potentially Savannah and getting her money, and Missus Guthrie
35:08
Speaker 2: is just like a pawn, a thing to them for
35:11
Speaker 2: them to get that money.
35:14
Speaker 7: However, I'll tell you something, Nancy, she may be a pawn,
35:17
Speaker 7: she may be a thing, but they've been thinking about
35:20
Speaker 7: her for a long long time. Reminds me of a
35:22
Speaker 7: patient who came in and could not stop talking about
35:25
Speaker 7: his grandma. Obsessed about his grandma, and I finally realized
35:29
Speaker 7: he was obsessed with her because he was trying to
35:31
Speaker 7: drain her bank account. So there was a lot of
35:34
Speaker 7: talking about it before I finally realized that he was
35:37
Speaker 7: actually using the therapy to commit a crime. Obviously I
35:40
Speaker 7: stopped seeing him. So there's somebody in some household out
35:43
Speaker 7: there who has a father, a brother, a son, somebody
35:47
Speaker 7: in their lives who has been talking about Nancy Guthrie
35:52
Speaker 7: for a long long time. That could be a very
35:54
Speaker 7: important behavioral clue in terms of finding the perpetrator.
36:00
Speaker 2: What else should people be looking for? Because I believe
36:03
Speaker 2: a case like this could be correct by a girlfriend,
36:06
Speaker 2: a wife, a sister, a mother, a friend, a neighbor
36:10
Speaker 2: that realizes something is off.
36:13
Speaker 7: Oh well, promises of wealth, I'm going to take you
36:17
Speaker 7: on a big trip. I'm going to buy you a
36:19
Speaker 7: new car, our ship is coming in preoccupation with the news,
36:26
Speaker 7: wanting to talk about all the little tidbits that have
36:28
Speaker 7: come out. I don't think that what we should or
36:32
Speaker 7: family members should be watching for as somebody who's actually
36:35
Speaker 7: avoiding talking about this, but somebody who is quite captivated
36:39
Speaker 7: by it, because you know, when you have a mark,
36:41
Speaker 7: when you're a perpetrator and you're going to benefit financially
36:45
Speaker 7: from something, you want to talk about it all the time.
36:48
Speaker 7: So I think it's going to be in the conversations
36:52
Speaker 7: people are hearing in their households. Think about if you're
36:55
Speaker 7: sitting around the dinner table with your family, all of
36:58
Speaker 7: a sudden, there's one family member that says, oh, let's
37:01
Speaker 7: talk about the Guthrie case. What do you think about
37:03
Speaker 7: older people living alone?
37:05
Speaker 2: Oh?
37:05
Speaker 7: Do you think that they're Do you think the ransom
37:07
Speaker 7: is going to be paid? Do you think do you
37:10
Speaker 7: think Nancy's still alive? At excited conference conversation not sad,
37:15
Speaker 7: excited conversation. That's what family members, girlfriends, wives, children, whatever,
37:20
Speaker 7: that's what they need to be watching out for.
37:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really interesting, doctor Bethany, because every time I
37:28
Speaker 2: leave the studio, I'm asked, do you think Nancy Guthrie
37:31
Speaker 2: is still alive? And similar questions, and every time the
37:36
Speaker 2: person is seems genuinely upset. They're not excited, like what's
37:41
Speaker 2: the latest. It's not like that at all.
37:44
Speaker 1: They're a guest and what has happened.
37:46
Speaker 2: They all have a mother or a grandmother, many of
37:48
Speaker 2: them that live with them or that are living alone,
37:52
Speaker 2: and this strikes fear in their heart. It's really interesting
37:56
Speaker 2: the way you delineated between being excited and almost yiddy
38:00
Speaker 2: about it as opposed to being upset and concerned about it.
38:04
Speaker 7: Bethany, that is absolutely right, and that goes to the
38:08
Speaker 7: third ransom note. Right, is that in this third ransom note,
38:12
Speaker 7: this person who writes it or sends it does not
38:15
Speaker 7: seem to show any concern about Nancy Guthrie. It's kind
38:20
Speaker 7: of all about himself. So also another thing to listen
38:24
Speaker 7: for in conversations around the table or on a date
38:27
Speaker 7: or whatever, is a person talking about how someone could
38:31
Speaker 7: benefit from adducting an older person, or they're talking about
38:35
Speaker 7: Nancy herself and how sad this is, and is she
38:39
Speaker 7: still alive and how is the family doing. If there
38:42
Speaker 7: is empathy in the conversation, that's not a perpetrator. If
38:46
Speaker 7: there's lack of empathy, then that is a possible suspect.
38:51
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything regarding Nancy
38:55
Speaker 2: Guthrie's disappearance, please dial toll free eight hundred two two
38:59
Speaker 2: five five three two four eight hundred two two five
39:03
Speaker 2: five three two four or five two zero eight eight
39:08
Speaker 2: two seven four six three if you wish to remain anonymous.
39:13
Speaker 2: Five two zero eight eight two seven four six three.
39:19
Speaker 1: Good night friend,