Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / REMIX: Album 4 Track 2 – True Wealth is Health & Knowledge w/Kevin Knight

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REMIX: Album 4 Track 2 – True Wealth is Health & Knowledge w/Kevin Knight · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• DC: We've got another friend here, Larry in the building. This brother is technically in the area of research, but he is one of the best conversationalist I've ever met. He has a way to getting down to the most human of insights and discussions. Fluidly. Comfortably. And I have learned from this brother through the years, I've worked with him over the course of a couple of decades. I've learned from him this, and I've never told him this, Larry, so this might come as a surprise to him. I used to be impressed with people who had brilliant answers. After watching this brother, I became more impressed with people who had brilliant questions. Larry, this brother is a savant at brilliant questions. Do tell. Who do we have in the building with us today? LT: D, as you said, this is someone who's near and dear to both of us. And we are very excited to welcome Kevin Knight to our virtual house today. Welcome Kevin. Kevin Knight: Thank you. Can't wait to get started. Yeah. So LT: what better way to start up Black History Month then having Kevin right? Kevin Knight: Yes! LT: So, okay. So D, you know, we will break down Kevin's amazing backgrounds. But up top we have to say, Kevin is someone, as we both have alluded to, we were introduced professionally from our time at Coca-Cola and it he has become our friend. And Kevin also represents in my opinion, Black excellence with both amazing breadth and depth, DC: right? Yeah. LT: Okay. So I want to really get this right since Kevin is, to me, a real Renaissance man, with a huge heart and one who truly cares for others, I can honestly say he is one of the most impressive people I've ever known, and this is not hyperbole. So let's break it down in the Brand Nerds will see where we're coming from. Right? So Kevin's a native New Yorker, true to his roots is a big Yankee Kevin Knight: fan, right? That's right baby! That's the first brand. So LT: he earned his undergraduate degree at SUNY Oneonta in Mathematics and Statistics, and then earned a master's degree from Bowling Green State University, as well as in math and stat. So first job is in research for P&G and anyone in or around marketing knows P&G, is there's no better place to begin your career. Yeah, exactly. Right. So then he moves over to Richardson Vicks to get closer to home, back on the east coast, and they were then acquired by his friends at P&G. At this point, Kevin then goes out on his own and starts a research company named the K Group where Kevin is still leading and running to this very day. And Kevin eventually becomes one of the most sought after focus group moderators in the business. I know there were many times with groups I was managing. We would literally hold up focus groups to make sure Kevin was our moderator. We'd wait months. He goes, no, we can't do this without Kevin. He is. I had never seen anyone better. Would you agree with that d? DC: 100% concur and we too have changed our schedules, like literally launching new products, literally holding up launching new campaigns and still this brotha' is in a room with people so that we can learn. Yeah. LT: Right. So, so D while his professional success is stellar, it's who Kevin is as a person that really defines him and actually circles back to why he is so good professionally, and the things that you were alluding to about him being the most amazing conversationalist. So this is from Kevin's bio D. I know he's going to get embarrassed, but that's too bad. I'm going to share it Kevin Knight: I'm already embarrassed. I'm already embarrassed. LT: So Kevin says if you had to distill his life to one concept it is that he is in awe. He is an enthusiastic guide on a journey of greater awareness, compassion, and information. And dedicated to sharing what he has learned on his journey. Particularly with those, with whom information arrives slowly or not at all. The business tools and life experience tools that Kevin has acquired have been invaluable for the work he does in all communities. So you'd see where this is going, right, D? Right, before we're done here, I want to share some other highlights. It starts with Kevin and his family, his wonderful wife, Terry and their grown children, daughters, Allessandra and India ,and son Johanon. So check this out. I'm going to break even more things down here. So Kevin's President of New Beginnings Family Academy, which is a public charter as President of I'm sorry, the Board of Directors at New Beginning Family Academy of Public Charter School in Bridgeport, Connecticut. He's on the Board of Directors at Burke Hospital in Westchester County. He organized and moderates something called "Higher Ground Encounters" and "Our Living Room" stories where he engages various ethnicities to honestly talk about race and other issues that prevent us from living with each other fully and lovingly. I have been lucky to join one of these sessions and it was, it was truly fantastic. Higher Ground Encounters also works with businesses to foster more inclusive organizations. Kevin is also a barefoot runner. Yes, you heard me right. Barefoot runner who has run multiple marathons. He's a multiple level black belt who owns and runs a karate school. He's a vegan foodie. He's currently immersed in a master's degree in nutritional sciences with the goal of helping improve nutrition for people of color. He runs a book club. He's a certified Mindfulness Meditation Teacher. He loves to travel and exploring different cultures, which has led him to be involved with organizations in Uganda and Malwai, aiding orphans and underserved communities. Think we have lots to talk about here. The welcome to Brands, Beats, and Bytes, Kevin Knight. Kevin Knight: Thank you, boy, listen to all that stuff, you would think I never sleep. I don't sleep, sleep my sleep is my issue, but that's a different story. That's a lot of stuff. I sound, I, you know, I definitely have a passion to make a difference. And all of those things that for me are coming together. If I could live another, you know, 80 years or so, I'm going to be an amazing human being, but give it a shot. DC: So Kevin, you being a, a New Yorker, you are familiar with the the Harlem Renaissance. Larry described you as a Renaissance Man. In our country in particular, not so much, so out of this country, out of this country, folks who are not Americans are more interested in American History than Americans themselves. But in our country, we will decouple the Harlem Renaissance from the Renaissance people who are still here. We go, "that that was an era it is now past. You all in doing something different now." To which we would not refer as or describe as Renaissance. You are the same as those brothers and sisters in Harlem, that were birthing something that was not only impacting America and the world because of the diversity of things that they were into. You've been doing that since you're alive, Kevin, and that is impressive brotha' that you are, who you are. You've been afforded many opportunities, but as you have said, you want to do things to, to improve humanity. So, in this comfy section, Kevin, you and I have never had this conversation. I don't think. When I look here at your at your accomplishments Board of Director Burke Hospital, running a book club, getting your Master's Degree in Nutritional Sciences, for the distinct purpose of helping people of color, understand the value of nutrition, what goes in their body. That you're involved with organizations in Uganda and Malawi and charter schools, et cetera. You made a decision at some point in your life that you were going to do more than just be a moderator and a researcher. Where did that come from for you, Kevin? And when did that choice happen, where you started to actually begin to do some of these things. Kevin Knight: So, you know, for most of us, that stuff comes from your youth, right? Your parents, who were my mom and dad, were very, very community oriented. I grew up in a, kind of a lower middle income neighborhood in Queens, right. A little black enclave, surrounded by a larger, was at the time it was a larger Jewish community. Right. And my parents were very focused, civic focused and involved in, in the community. And you grow up, and watch, that stuff. They didn't ever say you had to do, but you'll watch it and becomes part of your DNA. You know you know, fast forward you go to school, you get, you know, you do what you think you're supposed to do. I wasn't clear on what career I wanted, wanted to take, but what happened is I like, math, and so I went to school, I remember sitting in a microeconomics class and I started nodding off because it was like, this was killing me. It was so for me, that was boring, you know? And so I came out of that class. I said, this isn't for me. I might just major in what I love. I'm a major in math and I'm going to see what happens after that. And there's always someone that comes to you. So this guy came to me. Was a professor and he said, you know, I think you would be really good in statistics. I mean, out of the clear blue,and so I went and I took a stat class and said, wow, this is fascinating. I mean, because now you're starting to take data and you're looking at it and you're twisting, and this is early on in the data revolution. All right. We had card reader and you know, you put your card, you get your program out the next day and you go, oh, okay. Oh, a card was upside down. Okay. You're going to run again tonight. You know? And so that was like, that was a little intro, but someone kind of said, "Hey, listen, I think you have something here." So fast forward, going to grad school and all of this. And so then influence also my, I went into Proctor and Gamble. Proctor and Gamble says, and I said, listen, I got to do something. So I started working at a homeless shelter. I said, I got to do something here. Right. And I go and do that. And my manager said to me, "Listen, this is, this is good. What you're doing. He said, but if you want to influence change, he said, you need to be on the board of Directors of these companies, of these, these not-for-profits. So he said this, I said, okay, how do I do that? He said, first, you need to know what you're doing. He said, so he found he, and this is all he found a two week course that I could take to teach me how to operate on not-for-profit boards. Wow. Was two weeks away from the office. Okay. So this man, so now I'm like, wow. So this company, I give them credit. Their thing is, I'm going to develop you. This is your passion. I'm going to make sure you're an expert. So when you go out and think, and say, I worked for Proctor and gamble, you're going to say, he says, you know, what's going on. So two weeks it wasn't a vacation, but it was two weeks out of the office. Your work is aside and you'll come back and get, get back. So, so that began to really develop this passion. And then I don't know what it is. It's a, I'm a Black man. I read constantly and you know what I'm seeing the world around me, it's not looking so good. And I can't sit around and wait for it to change. Now I want to be an agent of change. I mean, that's, you know, I want to, you know, when I get out of here, I want to say, well, at least I impacted a person. Can I give you a story? DC: Yes, please Kevin, please. Kevin Knight: So I'm working at, so this is the school in Bridgeport. I go in there and before I was even doing this nutritional thing, you guys know I'm a vegan. I've been a vegan forever. And so I would go and do a little presentation on diet and not diet, but this is what's going on. I want to kind of inform people. And I went through this whole thing on there's fats and there's this and that. So I said, all this stuff, I said, this is what I want you to do. I said, I don't want you to change anything in your diet. Okay, except one thing. Now this is going to break your heart. I said, I want you to stop drinking sugar sweetened soda. That's the only thing I want you to do. Just stop that. Okay. I said, I want you to continue eating what you're eating. I said, don't worry about working out. Then they would say, why, how come only one thing I said, because it's too much, it's overwhelming. You can't do everything. I said, where we fail is when we've tried to do it. All right. So do one thing. I said, just get that out of your diet. I said, you could drink carbonated soda. I said, if you want diet, that's fine. I said, I'm not a fan, but I said, if you can do that fine. So weeks later, I come back, And this woman stops me at the front desk. And she said, Hey, how are you Mr. Knight? I said, I'm fine. She said, you remember me? And I was like, no, I don't remember you. But I said, tell me a little bit. She said, I went to that health talk you gave, and then I said, oh great. And I said, how's it going? She said, I lost 40 pounds. I was like 40 pounds. She said, you said only do one thing. She was like, serious, you said only do one thing. She said, I stopped drinking soda. I said, how much soda were you drinking? She said, I was drinking a lot. I said 40 pounds. And so that was like, you know, to me, it was like, whoa, you know, that, that music is like, wow, this is the impact you can have you go in and you care about people care about people and you just show them. You don't even have to, you know, you just got to get here's the path. Right. And let it be wide, let them roam around it, but at least say there's a pathway for you. And that, but to me, that was it. So that was it. So then I became, you know, almost ruthless, you know, cause it's like, Hey, you can change people's lives like that. Right. And that, that was I'm telling you that really blew me away, blew me away. And she didn't even bring exercise into the gig. Wow. DC: Phenomenal. Kevin Knight: So it's a key, it's an accumulation, I think of events in your life and how you see the world. And it starts with your parents, you know, or whoever is that guardian is that kind of gives you some, some light. And then I went on from there, you know a lot of things like that. I remember as a kid being terribly impacted, strongly impacted, positively impacted by, by Mahatma Gandhi's story. Why? I have no idea. Yeah. I went to Catholic school, so, so nun probably say you need to read this book, and smacked me upside the head or something, but it was like, wow, I read that story. And I was like, wow, that man, he did that. Now we know he's human, and he has all sorts of faults. Like all of us, like all of us, yeah. It was like, wow. You know, anyway, that's, that's kind of, if that helps a little kind of give you some insight into what, you know, what got me started. It does. Thank you for sharing those stories. We're going to the next section. Now we call it five questions. Here's how that goes down. I will ask a questions or I'll have the rock, and then Larry will ask the questions. I'll pass him the rock out. So at the end, I'll say, okay, Larry, next question. And then Larry will do the same thing at this question when he's done, we'll say, okay, DC next question. And we go back and forth until we hit five. This rock is thrown at me, right? DC: Yeah. The rock is coming to you. All right, Kevin, given your many years of doing research on brands, I'm particularly curious about your answer to this question. And it is around the first branding experience you had, where you fell in love with the brand. You, you could not get enough of consuming the brand, spending time with the brand, thinking about the brand, enjoying the brand. A bit like a first love. What was that brand for you? Kevin Knight: Yeah, so, so this is where I probably throw things off a little because branding, as much as I love this work, I find it a dangerous territory at times, you know? So the first time that people were really seeing branding, was really when black people were, were taken off of the ships in Africa and they created this brand. We became a brand, because they gave us a personality. They gave us a being, they said, this is what this brand is about. And so so branding for me, you know, it's, it's tricky game. It's this is going to sound anti-American, but it's a capitalist tool that we use to convince people to do things that we want them to do, but they may not necessarily want to do themselves. So with that said, I'm, I love people as brands. So brands to me are the people, you know, and so as a kid, I didn't know that this was the brand, but the big brand for me. Okay. I'm a baseball fan, a Yankee fan. So Mickey Mantle was my first brand. DC: Got it. Kevin Knight: He was truly the brand Micky Mantle could do no wrong. I mean, my first brand at Proctor & Gamble I worked on Tide, and Tide you know, that's a brand, you know It's a brand. But so for me brand is it's wrapped up in something more than physical things, it's really about people, you know. And so that's it, this was a long conversation that we could go through, but it's, it is about branding. I mean, I use like new, but I mean, the Germans did that to Jews, in Germany. Yeah. They created a brand and they said, this is what this brand is about. That's the negative side of branding. So, so brands are, it's tricky, it's tricky. And it's a conscious things in my mind. I'm not a material guy. And so I, I almost rejected. Someone's kind of hawking something to me. If I'm hearing this brand being developed, I'm always thinking what's going on here. DC: What's really going on here. Kevin Knight: Yeah. DC: Yeah. You know, kevin we've, we've done 80 plus shows. So we've asked this question somewhere in that neighborhood. We've never gotten an answer like that. That is a very unique perspective on the, on the notion of branding. That, that that's that's that's good. Larry, you got any follow-ups? LT: No. Other than I love Kevin providing that unique perspective because everything he said is, it's certainly, you know, spot on from that angle. So reality. DC: Cool. Kevin Knight: It's probably being the mind as a researcher, so I'm always digging. Right. My wife is like, you always got a question on something always skeptical. I said, oh, this is, you know, this is what we're supposed to be. I said, what's supposed to be skeptical, you know. LT: Coupled with growing up in Queens. Throw that those two together. All right. Second question. Kevin DC: Yes, please, brotha'. LT: Okay. So Kevin who has had or is having the most influence on your career Kevin Knight: Who has had or is having the most influence in my career is that that's tough. You know, again, I can't give one person, you know. You two, tremendous influence on my career. Right? All of your friends at Coca-Cola, tremendous influence on my career. I I'd have to say, I have to say, I got to go back to those people in graduate school who were starting to guide me and it started to, you know, kind of opened up my world a little and start to see things a little bit differently. I can't pin it on one person. It is really, it's a multitude of folks that have, have touched me. LT: Okay. You know, you know, D what I'm struck with Kevin, I don't know if you remembered this was a, I don't know how many years ago this was. I needed some thoughts about quantitative research and I called Kevin just because, you know, he, Kevin specializes in qualitative. And we started talking about, and I was thinking, can Kevin help me find somebody. And he's like, he basically said, did you know, I have a statistics, like, I didn't know that he had a statistics degree, you know, both undergrad and grad school. And I say that as a complimentary way to Kevin, because he's so good with people. And so good on the qualitative side that, you know, it shows how well-rounded he is because he has that depth of education. But then that's not that doesn't become, you don't lead with that. Kevin, you know, like a lot of left-brain people, do you know what I mean? Kevin Knight: Yeah. You know, I don't do the quantitative that much because there's a lot of houses that can do quantitative. Right? You can find a lot of folks who do quantitative, but I have a couple of clients who insist that I do their qualitative and quantitative, you know, Hey, it's good business right not to turn it away. So, but they come in and they say, listen, we want you to design this. Now it is, there is something beautiful when you do quantitative and the numbers come out and the data comes out and say, ah, that's what we heard in the qual. Now we are getting confirmation, you know, that's, you know, you've seen that. Right. You know, it's just on the, on that, that question about, you know, influencers, I think sometimes the influences where the folks who gave you, maybe it's almost like a negative feedback loop, right? So. When I was that Proctor & Gamble, when I went to Richardson Vicks and Proctor and Gamble bought Richardson Vicks, and were still there. And we're kind of hanging in. And I remember at one time I'd come home and I'd say to my spouse and said, you know, I said, I'm just, I don't know what's going on here. I said, you know, they can't seem to make decisions. And every day come home, have a complaint. And she said, listen, you need to just kind of step up. If you're ready to leave, then you need to leave. Right. And, and, you know, and I was like, yeah. And at the time she was working, she wasn't making a lot of money, but she was very happy in her job. And she said, look, I got medical insurance. He said, so give it a shot and you you'll do it. Right. And, and I, I said, yeah. And, and what happens? I thought about, I said, my boss, do I want his job? Nah. How about my bosses boss? Don't want his job? I want his job either. You want the general manager? I don't want his job. And so it's like, well, what am I doing here? Right. You know, it's like, if I can't move up, if I don't want those positions, cause I didn't want to be in that type of... you know, that suit, you know? So that was, that was the influence. So there's a lot of things impact. And I should've mentioned my spouse because she, she has definitely been supportive in that regard. DC: Big move to encourage your spouse, to take a leap. That's a big move. Kevin Knight: Baby, was just born first one. First one, just born. And the good side is all my friends at Proctor and at Richardson Vicks, Proctor & Gamble/Richardson Vicks. They were there and they said, listen. When you go out on your own, we're ready, we're ready. And I ain't even one buddy called me up. He had left the company and he went to a a company that was doing boards. They make science books and dissection kits and stuff like that. He called me up and he said, "Hey, I got a project I'm waiting for you. I'm waiting for you. When you go out on your own, this is your first project." and he was the first project. DC: Wow. LT: The signs were there, Kevin. Not only there but elsewhere. Kevin Knight: The universe has opened up. I mean, just another story on that. So, Church and Dwight has been a big client for a long time. And as soon as I went out on my own young lady called me up and she said, Kevin, I've just given your name to the research director. We have a project. I want you to work on it. So I told him that you new, but I said, you know, I think he's going to be really good. And she said, I want you to know how this happened. She said, when I first got the Proctor & Gamble and she was in marketing, she said, they threw me out, is like to the lions. No one talked to me. It was like, here, here's a project you're doing. She said, when I came to you as my research person, she said, you sat down. He said, listen, put that aside. Let me show you the org chart, and she said, you went through the organization chart and you pointed out everybody in the company. And she said, and I got a sense of, this is what it's about. She said, I never forgot that you took some time. LT: Wow. Kevin Knight: Just to spend with me. And that registered for me. Cause that said, Kevin, you know, take the time. Take the time to be with people, give them what you give them, whatever time you have, you know. Anyway. LT: It's a great story. I love that. And that says so much about you. D, should we go to the next question? It's a good segue, right? DC: Let's do it. You've had successes Kevin in your professional world and also in your personal world, this question is a two-parter and it has nothing to do with your successes. It has to do with your F-up. So we want to know your biggest F-up in your opinion, your biggest F-up that's part one. And part two and perhaps more importantly, Kevin, what did you learn from it? What did it teach you? Kevin Knight: Okay. Okay. So I can give you a beautiful story. So just started with just started doing work with Coke, right? So my introduction to Coke was a little odd. Barbara Ciesla I'm not sure you remember. Yes. It's a weekend. Someone, the Greenfield consultant, good friend of mine, Andy Greenfield, he had called me up. He said, listen, I know you're starting your own. And he says they want to do some focus groups on Saturday. I don't want to do them. He said, you want to do it? I said, you know, I'm just starting out, got time. Right. And so I go down to Atlanta doing these groups and Barbara is in the backroom and like whole research team is back there. I do these groups and she turns around at the end of the end of the thing, she turns around and says, listen, this guy's good. And you know, she kinda, you know, she was smoking. She said, I want you to use him for focus groups. And this is, but I don't want you just having them talking to black people. He can talk to white people too. So you kind of greeny like, wow, what's this about, man, that was the best thing in the world. Best thing in the world. But then, so then get a couple of projects and I do a project for Phyllis Porter. LT: Yes. Big, big shout out. Kevin Knight: And Phyllis sent back my report. It was a sea of red. DC: Oh man. Kevin Knight: Oh man. She sliced it, I mean, I was like crushed. I was crushed. It was humbling. She went through everything and syntax and I mean, I basically wrote one paragraph. I was like, like, you know, like the, Paul in the gospel, he writes like these long run-on sentences, I was like, wow. And she like broke it down. And I was, you know, and that's tough to take, you know, sweat's dripping from your armpits, you know, your clients talking to you. And and so she said to me, she said, listen, you are really good at what you're doing. She said, this is acceptable from anybody. She said, but I want you to be amazing and, and so for that, so for me, couple of things happened. I went and said, let me sit down and kind of go and take a writing class. Okay. I'm always, it's about school. So it's about school. I need to go and take a writing class, you know? Right. You got to do it. Organize my thoughts. And then had also hired a proofreader. I said, listen, you need to proof these, these documents where they go out the door. Cause you can't proofread your stuff all the time. LT: We do that all the time amongst the three of us, we all have each other put eyes on it. You just can't. Kevin Knight: Gotta do it, gotta do it. So Phyllis, she, she really, you know, she stepped up for me there. She really was honest, you know, and said, listen, this is what I want. And you know, she could have let it go, but she's like, no, I'm not going to do that. You know? And that, that was, that was really powerful. And I did writing is a challenge. Writing's a challenge. It takes time, you know, organizing your thoughts, putting them in a certain way. It takes time and but it was a valuable, valuable lesson. LT: I love it. And D, just one quick thing. So really just putting a bow on this, Kevin is like, what you realized is you, you put in a report, it was okay, but it was, it wasn't what it should've been right. Kevin Knight: It wasn't excellent. LT: Yeah. It wasn't what it should've been. And and so Phyllis in a, in a, in a kind way gave you some humble pie, but you took it and ran with it. Kevin Knight: Absolutely. So, so Phyllis, is one of the early clients at Coke. And I think the first time I met her, we were doing focus groups in New York. And at the time Terry would do some of the work with me, she'd come to the groups. And so now I have talked to Phyllis on the phone. So when I meet for, you know, she's got a lot of experience and I'm like, wow, okay. So when I meet her, I was like, She looks so young right?. This is obviously you just stuff in your head, right. This woman's had all this experience. And I, and I did the, like, I never did this again. I said, how old are you? In a kind way, you know, like the compliment. My wife turned to me, she's like, and right in front of Phyllis, what did you say? Like, what did you say? I'm like, I just, I just, I said, you look so young, you know? And they were like, Phyllis was like you never asked anybody their age. LT: That's what it took to get to his biggest F-up, because that's the F-up! DC: That's the F-up right there, asking the person their age publicly and in front of your wife. Okay. In front of your wife.? Alright, Larry, any more brother? LT: Let's let's do the next question. All right. So Kevin, regarding technology and marketing, you know, through the spirit of your career, how technology is just, you know, become something that's so dominant in all of our lives, both personally and professionally. So from your very learned station, can you tell us where you think marketers should lean in or best leverage tech versus areas that they should be leery? Kevin Knight: I think they can't lose touch, what we were talking about earlier, they can't lose touch with the human. They can't, I mean, this technology is fantastic, you know, but it's, first of all, it's not always what it promises to be. It's not saving us time. I work 24 hours a day. I mean, you know, in some regards, right. You know clients in Europe, you know, all of a sudden you've got a 24 hour day. Right? What we can't lose touch with that wrapping around. Can't lose touch with having that conversation going out and, you know, so sitting down with someone at a coffee shop and kind of going through, because the way we've designed it, it's now here's the agenda and this is how, what we have to do, but it's not the agenda where we usually hit it. It's the tangents. That's an idea we didn't think about. And so I don't want to, I want to make sure I don't lose touch that. I, I believe that we're going to continue to move forward with technologies, but there's also going to be a little revolt where people say, I want to still connect. I want to still connect on a human level of heart to heart. Person to person. Flesh to flesh. I think that's still, I think that's going to happen just like we see people who are leaving work now and they say, you know, the great retirement. The great retirement is like getting something back. They are like I want my life back. I think we're going to go back. We're going to have a little bit more of that. A little bit more of that. It's like, I want to have a little bit more of this time with you. You know, it's so if you call me up right now and you said, Kevin, you know, we gotta do so-and-so the first one would be, can I meet you in person? Right. You know? Yeah. I got to go out to the, and I got to go out to LA or I got to go out to somewhere, you know, maybe we can kind of connect out there, you know, that's I think we got up, I believe I'm maybe I'm hoping, I'm wishing that we still have that contact because that's the best, that's still the best. Face-to-face, you know, we can read each other, you know, share stories. That's that's it LT: I'm so glad you took it in that direction because that's such a huge point to convey. Yes. D, anything to add. Should we do the next question? DC: Mr. Kevin savant conversationalist. What are you most proud of? Kevin Knight: It would be insane not to say my children, of course, you know, so that, that's always number one, you know? Definitely, you know, cause when you seeing, so parents came out of the Caribbean. Dad had a high school diploma came to us, didn't recognize it. So they had to go back to school, get his high school diploma. Mom, he met, my mom here, she's also from the Caribbean. They married, you know, raised a family. And so you have this lineage that you're creating, you know, you creating, you're creating true wealth, wealth, and knowledge. You know, we emphasize the importance of knowledge to our kids. And so that's, that's the real wealth. And so raising children and having them loving each other and being models and kind of knowing about other people that that's the easy one. I am, I am most proud though, of the impact on lives that I'm having. I mean, it's, without a doubt, you know, the one woman there, the kids at karate. I teach a mindfulness class. That have people come and say, wow, my life has been changed. All of a sudden I'm, I'm more awake. I'm noticing things, you know, I'm, I'm dealing with things in a more effective way. That that's, that's the biggie, impact in people's lives. Even in, you know, I did some focus groups. In, Jackson, Mississippi. Jackson, Mississippi, you know, someone I'm a New Yorker. So, you know, anything south of the Mason Dixon Line makes my, oh, I'm not sure I should be there. You know? And so Jackson, Mississippi, we were doing some work for it. I don't know exactly the name, but it's this was ghost story. It was a children's television workshop. Right. And what we did is we were going down because there was a character in this story that was a ghost and it would concern how people in the Bible Belt would react to this ghost. Now this is, yeah. So this ghost was a relative of somebody who died and he would come and give good advice. Right. But he said, we really want you to go down and do this work, you know, down there. So I went focus groups in Jackson, Mississippi, me and this woman Caucasian lady. And we would kind of just traipse around, down there. And what was fascinating is you see you get in the groups and this happens a lot where you see the stiffness at first. Cause they're like, well, what's this topic going to be? Ooh, brother's in here. So I'm like, oh wait, I can see this, "like what's going on?" Why is he, why you see there? You're the technician? No, I'm the moderator. And to see in two hours, the change in them. Complete change in them. So I may have been the first brother they met in their life and all of a sudden, now there's a question in their mind about all the stuff that they were brought up with. Those thoughts. This happened, this happens all the time. It happened in Milwaukee, this last election cycle. I do a lot of groups during the election cycle on politics. Right. And it had me going up to Milwaukee and the client. This is funny. Guy, got my name from someone at Coke. And the guy said, listen, he said I'm looking for a good moderator. Oh yeah, you gotta use Kevin. Right. So guy calls me up and says, Hey, I want to do these groups. And the politics stuff is so crazy. I didn't even see the guy till I get there. Going to Milwaukee. I get there, the guy who's, my client walks in the room. He sees me literally, he turned around and walked. He was, he turned around, walked out and so, and I saw the spreadsheet, I thought, oh, I know what's going on. Yeah. So he comes back in and he's like stumbling and bumbling. And I said, I said, listen, I know what you think. You're thinking, wow. We hired this guy to do these groups. And these are all, these were Caucasian women who voted for Trump last time, but they thought maybe on the fence. Okay. Okay. Okay. So now he's like, wow. I said, listen, I think I'll be all right. Trust me. Okay. I said, I've done this before. You'll be fine. You know, we go in there and I can see the tension, but by the end man, it was like, we were just best friends. Me and the respondents were talking, honest stuff, you know, honest stuff about, you know, what they want, what they like, what they don't like, things. It was great. And so a lot of that you have an impact on people's lives, just whenever just having that contact right in there. You know, when to satisfy my client's desires to have their information, you know, and understanding of the information we're trying to get at. But also it's about us just connecting on a human level. Right there. LT: That's your gift. DC: Wow. And we do have to say Brand Nerds that he did not say that he was in Milwaukee doing these focus groups in 2001. He did leave groups in 2020 or 2021. So, wow. Okay. Larry, you wanna hit the next question?, LT: Yeah. Let's let's let's hit the next section. Shall we D? Yeah. All right. So D, what's popping? DC: What's Poppin LT: All right, Kev. This is our chance to shout out, shout down, or simply air something happening in and around marketing today that we think is good fodder for discussion. So a D you want to take the first, or shall I? DC: Would you please do the honors brother? LT: All right. I'm jumping into the waters here into a very controversial subject it's Black History Month, and we are sitting here at the beginning of February of 2022. And Brian Flores Class Action Lawsuit has just hit. And for those of you who don't know, Brian Flores was the Head Coach of the Miami dolphins was fired in January after three seasons as being their head coach. His last two seasons were winning seasons. The first time the team and the last two seasons in a row we're winning seasons. The first time the dolphins did that since 02/03. And the team started the season at one and seven and ended at eight one. So as I said, it's Black History Month 2022. And here we are, as of this recording, there is one African-American coach in the NFL, Mike Tomlin, who has been head coach for 15 years without a losing season. And he did this this past year with Ben Roethlisberger. Couldn't throw a pass more than 20 yards, it seemed like, and it's also won a super bowl. That's the list. That is it. One African-American coach. So for me, there's a huge shout out to Brian Flores for stepping up here, and as one commentator I heard said, this is the definition of the great congressmen, rest in peace, John Lewis saying, this is really good trouble. So, as you can tell from the tenor of my voice and you gentlemen know me, I'm just incredulous about this, that we're sitting here in 2022. And I think the NFL has a huge issue in their hands. And they're showing their arrogance even further by denial, denial, denial. The Trump playbook, let's just deny, deny, deny, and they could be in some serious trouble. They were in, in a situation where the football has been better than it's ever been. And now they have this all earned by these 32 white men and their puppet, Roger Goodell. What say you gentlemen? DC: Kevin. Kevin Knight: Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's, it's been all over up here. I mean, we have sports radio, like crazy, and I have to agree with that, you know, It's Brian Flores. It's a new awakening. It's a new awareness, you know, and that's, that's what this is about. It's not just it's him. And, but the bravery in him, this is the thing that caught me, man. He might be walking away from, you know, five mil a year, at least, at least, you know, it's but he's going to get a gig. He's gonna get to get, I heard, I heard him talk on one of those ESPN talk shows, man. He is, he's gonna get a gig. He's just too good. He's about, and he's like my, my whole life. I just want to work, you know, with men manage men. It's right on that's that's a biggie. LT: Well, Kevin, you have met her. You .Have a more optimistic view is that I don't think he's ever going to work in the NFL again, unless he wins this lawsuit where there's some huge paradigm shift. Look what happened to Colin Kaepernick? Yes. Different circumstance, but he was blackballed and the NFL just paid him behind the scenes. And I don't think Brian Flores is going to go for that. I think he's truly Curt Flood. A lot of people have brought that up Curt Flood really a risk and lost his career because of baseball free agency back in the seventies. So I it's, it's so much credit. I, this, usurped Tom Brady retiring and it should. DC: It should have. LT: Yeah. So I have such huge respect to this man. And I saw Hugh Jackson yesterday talking about, yeah, I had to deal with the same stuff. And you know, we start Hugh Jackson here with the Raiders. He was a pretty good coach. And then Al Davis died and Mark Davis wanted to get rid of him. And then he was showed at the Bengals and I'm like, how did he, he couldn't have gotten so bad. And now you, now I should not the Bengals. I'm sorry. The Browns. Now you realize, well, they were making them lose games. And that's why Brian Flores didn't want to do that. Kevin Knight: Yup. DC: Yup. All right, gentlemen, I have a perspective on this and instead of responding to what you just went through Larry and Kevin, I'm going to share my what's poppin'. Now, Kevin, Larry, and I don't share with each other what we're going to talk about during what's poppin'. We want it to be organic and extemporaneous, but just so happens that this time we have the same subject, LT: I'm not surprised I would have asked you by the way. And I said, nah, let's just lay it out. DC: Cause we have the same subject. I'd like to start by reading the statement from the NFL to Brian Flores's suit. His suit alleges that there is rampant racism and prejudice, in the hiring and firing of black coaches among other things. This is what he alleges. Here is the NFL statement, quote, "the NFL and our clubs are deeply committed to ensuring equitable employment practices and continued to make progress in providing equitable opportunities throughout our organizations. Diversity is core to everything we do, and there are few issues on which our clubs and our internal leadership spend more time. We will defend against these claims, which are without merit." Close quote. Brian Flores, the suit dropped at about 4:15 Eastern on February 1st. This statement from the NFL dropped at 5:40 PM Eastern on the first. So about 90 minutes later. Now let's give some context to you. Let's get some context. In 2014, the AFC Championship Game was played with the Patriots against the Colts. Patriots won, 40 to 24. That game was played on November 16, 2014. I point this game out because this was the deflate game. Deflate gate game, where Tom Brady and the Patriots were accused of deflating the footballs, thereby giving allegedly an advantage to Tom Brady and the Patriots. So what happened? The NFL investigated this, they hired an attorney. His name was Wells and Wells did his investigation and he published a report. And in the report it said there was a 51% probability that the footballs had. In fact, been deflated 51%. They said that deflation occurred deflation. That that report was released, the Wells report on May 6th, 2015. The number of days between when that game occurred, the AFC championship game, Patriots and Colts, and when the when the report came out was 15 weeks. 15 weeks. That is 171 days. So they took 171 days to investigate a claim of balls being deflated, and the report concluded that there was a 51% probability that deflation had occurred. They did not take, the NFL, 171 minutes to respond to coach Flores's suit. 171 minutes is 2.85 hours. They waited 90 minutes and claimed without any investigation that I can discern. That this brother's case was without merit. So here's my response. When I, when I give that context. The utter arrogance. The utter arrogance of releasing a statement like this, when you will spend, I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars and 171 days to investigate the veracity of the claim of a deflated football and this far more substantive issue, you have the goal to say, not only will we not spend any time investigating this, we're going to tell you, you're not saying anything at all that matters. I am having a difficult time, gentlemen, now being a fan of the NFL. I love the games this season. This has been the most exciting postseason I've seen in my life and expenses my lifetime. I don't know if I can sit down and watch the super bowl now because of this wanton arrogance. So that's my what's popping, gentlemen. Your thoughts? LT: Kevin? Kevin Knight: Oh my God. That's, that's beautiful. It's you know, on the NFL I've, I've had the same, but I've had an awakening to it in a different way. So I'm going to take it just a little here. I can't understand how gambling has become such a part of the NFL. You know, the, LT: Let me just interrupt you for a second. What you mean is part of the fabric of the league. Because it was because it was always like, oh, no, like th they didn't even want to mention points guides on their pregame show. Kevin Knight: Yeah. I mean, remember they, they locked up mobsters. Right. You know, so I grew up in a, in an area where there was a number runner. Yeah, and that was against the law. Right. And so now, and so there's this full embrace and it's like, and so, you know, you listen to ads on the radio and they talk about, you know, betting on this game, parlay and so forth. And then, then, then at the very end they say, and if you have a gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER. As I said to someone the other day, I said, that's like you going out in the street, buying some heroin, and the dealer says, and listen, if you're having some trouble, I know a really good, you know, rehab house around the block. I mean, but it just reinforces the insincerity, but it, you know, again, this is about that brand, the NFL is a brand. LT: The shield Kevin Knight: A shield and they think they're bulletproof. DC: Yep. Yeah, that's true. Kevin Knight: You know, they think they're bulletproof and no one's bullet proof, I have the same feeling about, I don't want to support them at all in. Yup at all. Yeah. LT: So I have two things to add. This is amazing conversation and I'm glad we're all being pretty vociferous about it. From Kevin, I started to question my, and I've always been a huge football fan as a kid. I was fortunate enough to go to New York Giants games in Yankee Stadium. Like, you know, just been a, been a big football fan. And I really started to question it when I realized they did not give a shit about the players, and it was so obvious when all this stuff came up about concussions, they did anything they could to mitigate the risk and mitigate the damage. And now they're like, well, you guys know, everybody knows. And I, that was an anathema to me. And I really started to question, how could I watch these big hits? You know, when you're, when you're younger, you're realize that the, the consequences, now you go, oh, now I shutter at really enjoy. So that's I already was in that camp, but the game keeps bringing me back. Right. So did these, these points this year has been amazing and I'm a Niners fan and the Niners have been, you know, the up and down, and it's been so much fun to watch. And then you have this, which you know, is always been there. But now it's like, it's been festering and now Brian Flores opened the proverbial closet. Right. And now the garbage is stinking for everybody to see. So I got a question for both of you guys, which I think is really salient given the situation. D, we know, we personally know one of the halftime guests don't, we halftime performers Snoop and Dr. Dre and Mary J they're performing at halftime. So what do you think they're thinking? DC: I think they're going to make some statement. I don't believe they're going to perform what they would have performed without Brian Flores doing this. They're going to do something they're going to do something. It would be shocking if they didn't. Kevin Knight: So I was, so it's funny before the Brian Flores incident, I wanted to understand how come they chose that combination. How come that combination for the show? You know, how come, you know, it's so all of, you know, this era, how come them, so that's, what's been cooking in my mind. So I'm immediately thinking, you know, okay. There's someone went out and did some focus groups and they said, Hey, we want this audience. Then we need to bring in these performance. How come? What, what are they seeing? Are they seeing a hole in their business by their black consumer? Who said you know, you didn't treat Colin Kaepernick right. And so they have been reluctant to come back. I've had the same issue, Larry, that you had, the violence has bothered me. It's bothering me and I had my stomach for it isn't the same. I watched the game and the announcer gets so excited when there is some big contact and someone's laid out, you know? And I'm like, wow, I'm not sure we should be so excited. But so what's happened. How come they chosen? That's the question? You know, how come they chose that group to perform at halftime? LT: D I know you got a theory. DC: Yeah, Kevin, we talked about this very subject on our last podcast and or one before that, and here is my supposition. There is a before May 25, 2020, and after. This was the the day that George Floyd was murdered. There has been an awakening in this country and around the world post that event, that tragic event, where I believe folks who had not thought about Black culture, as a way to attract broader culture, had not happened in this way before. I think apertures have been opened up. Before the selection of Dr. Dre, Snoop, Eminem, Mary J and Kendrick Lamar as this year's halftime performers. There had only been three or four hip hop artists involved in a Superbowl period, not as the headliner, but as a sort of a co-performer someone brought on. But this is the time when their headline. I think it is because one, what you said Kevin, is right, is that, oh, wait, we got some softness in our African-American Black business. But I also think this was the time where someone like a Jay Z and a Rock Nation that are producers of this halftime show and they produced several others where they could pitch this idea and have decision makers more open to it, number one, and number two is hip hop is the most dominant music culture on the planet. So for me my question was why had they not done it long before now? Because hip hop has been dominant now for a decade and a half, globally. So that's my belief as to why they did it. Kevin Knight: Interesting. LT: I think it's a great, and let me say this too, going back to the arrogance, I, I can't say it enough, how incredibly arrogant this is about these people that you put in such great in 19 minutes without merit. Are you effing? Kidding me. These are the same people from the New York Giants to the LA Rams, the Atlanta Falcons. Who've never had an African-American coach and I'm using those three marks. There's others, because think of the African-American presence in those three big markets, they've never had an African-American coach, right? And so they're saying without merit and the Giants just hired this dude and this, the whole thing that happened with Brian Flores and Bill Belichick, you know, it's just, it's unfathomable that they, they think they're bulletproof. Kevin, you said this, they are so arrogant that they just keep doing it. And it's incredible to me, D we usually say, what's the answer to every question. I say this to our son, Jake, all the time. It's usually money, but actually racism trumps, because if it was money here, somebody behind the scenes would say Goodell, and it shows also how toothless he is, right? Because Goodell would say, yo man, who we're having at least two teams hired African-American coach, which one of y'all is doing it. Yeah. Kevin Knight: Yeah. LT: Byron Leftwich and Jim Caldwell, you can, I can keep naming. There are so many people, Eric Bieniemy who are there, and they're not even there racism's beating their profit because they did that. This story would go away. Kevin Knight: To even take it further back. So. You know, baseball has black managers, right. They have Latino managers, Black managers. So they've done a little bit in that space. So, but it's bigger than that. It's what about ownership? That's the key, right? That's the key, you know. Is Michael the only Black owner in the top in those three sports, baseball, basketball? Yeah. Let's think about that. You know, and so I think the NFL, because they're about saving their face, they're going to then allow, you know, Jay Z a whole crew to become an ownership group of a friend. They're going to allow that to happen because it's a club and then that's how they're going to try to placate. And they may even announce something that at the Super Bowl, you know, we're making the effort, there's going to be something that they. You know, They see dollars out there at the end of the day, it is about dollar and this, they see dollars out there and I, I I'm strongly believed something's going on financially. I mean, they, you know, they're not making enough money. It's hard to imagine, but yeah, there's going to be something happening. That's that's got to happen. I mean, ownership, no baseball owner, there was no black group or person that's owns a baseball team. No LT: There's only one Black person, again, it's the greatest player of all time. Arguably, who owns in the NBA. So yeah. DC: What that says, it says one of two things, and then Larry, will we get to the show close? Yep. The first thing that it says is that in order to own a major sports franchise in this country and be the primary owner, a primary investor, is that, you have to be Michael Jordan. LT: Yup. DC: Okay. That's it. That's it. The second is that you would need to then presume the converse. There has not been a wealthy Black person in this country or the world, like a Robert Smith, Jeff is texting us. Robert Smith now is a billionaire. There has not been a Black person who has ever been interested in owning an NFL franchise. That's impossible. Right? LT: Let's say that Bob, Robert Johnson was the first he owned. What was then the Bobcat's right then he sold them to MJ. So I just want to make sure we're clear, but still one of 30, come on. DC: Yeah, that's right. Yep. That's right. All right, Larry, LT: What a great show D this plus the three of us talking like we would, if we were just sitting in Starbucks, man. So this has been so much fun. Kevin Knight: It's been great. Really appreciate this. LT: Oh, this is so great. So D, do you want to do the, your learnings or shall I go first? DC: Would you, would you please, brother? LT: Yes. All right. So I'm doing my Jeff Shirley keeping it to like odd numbers of five. Okay. DC: Got it. Got it. LT: Five really great ones. I think. So the first one is a challenge to the Brand Nerds. What do you do well, and like, Kevin, what can you do to take the things that you do well and translate it into helping your community and or others. First one second. Do you want your boss's job or your boss's boss's job? Like Kevin asked himself and if you don't, you really need to consider your options elsewhere. Number three, help others just because, just because. And by the way, it may pay dividends. Like Kevin shared with his story when he was at P&G. Four, with all the tech that we have that engulfs us, we just can't lose touch with people. The human connection is just so important and you must continue to put that in the forefront and have it and enhance that human connection, especially when it's we're in the midst of pandemic. We can appreciate it that much more. And then the last, last one is I'd love this one. Kevin, true wealth is wealth and knowledge. That's a great Kevin Knight-ism.. Those are my five. DC: Okay, brilliant. Larry. Kevin, the Brand Nerds will be familiar with this. I don't think that you are. I use these podcasts as an opportunity to get to better know the human being that's in front of me. I've known you for a long time. Well, you've shared aspects of yourself that I did not know, not surprised by them, but I didn't know. And it's allowed me to peer deeper into who Kevin Knight is. So I use these when, when I'm, when I'm moved to do so as a way to describe who I believe is before me now. And I'm going to attempt to do that with you, given the conversation, we've just had. A couple things stand out. The first is when you were in in school, university, you said a professor came to you and made a comment about how he thought statistics might be an area where you might do well. Did you ask that professor for his advice on what you ought to be doing? Oh, no, you didn't. Okay. Got it. All right. Then you had a manager at P&G and you said, while I'm working here in research, I gotta do something. I got to do something in the community. And this manager said to you, well, if you really want to do something, you need to be on the Board of Directors of these nonprofits. And not only that let's find you a course, two weeks, not vacation, but you're going to learn so that when you are on these boards, you can be most impactful. And you're not only representing Kevin Knight and your family you're representing P&G. So this is what your manager did for you. Did you request that of your manager? Kevin Knight: No. DC: No? Okay. Yep. Nope. Okay. Third, one. Third. Phyllis, who was at Coca-Cola you give her a report, it comes back with blood everywhere, and she says something to you along the lines of. You're good. I want you to be great across the board, including in your writing before you sit that report to Phyllis and just say, Hey, Phyllis, I'm really looking to up my writing game. Would you please take an extra measure of care to let me know how I might do better in my report writing? Did you do that? Kevin Knight: No, DC: You didn't do that. All right. So, so Brand Nerds, we have these three defining moments in Kevin's life and I've got a micro point and a meta point. Here's the micro point, Kevin, you were doing something that allowed yourself to be open, to help. That is why these people felt comfortable coming to you. Yep. So for the Brand Nerds out there, what I want you to learn from Kevin is be sure to be open, to help. Because it will come, but here's my meta point that I believe summarizes in my mind, codifies for me, who and what you are that is so special and unique, what you do, Kevin, and what these people did for you and what you now do through the charter school, karate school, all the nonprofits you've been a part of is you fill meaningful, impactful, important, unrequested critical needs. You fill meaningful, impactful, important, unrequested critical needs. You were given that in your life, you did not request some of the gifts that came to you. They came to you. You are now passing that on through the works that you do. In an unrequested manner. So this is, this is what I think separates you as a human being from everyone else. I just want to pause with that. And then I'll, I'll close with one more point. How does this feel to you? Kevin Knight: It's as you know, it's it's, it's humbling to hear this and it's tough in some ways, you know, but it's very insightful as always, you are always insightful. This is nothing new for me to hear insights coming from you. You, you, you do this. He was sitting behind a mirror. He listens to everybody. He lets everyone talk and then he goes and takes out. He says, okay, let me, I got like 10 points here and it lists them off and you sit there and go, wow, he just synthesized five hours of conversation. Anyway. Thank you. You know, it gives me something to think about what I'm doing, my purpose, really clear. DC: Thank you, Kevin. All right. One other thing I want to say, brother. Oh, to the Brand Nerds. My question to you all on behalf of Kevin, what? Meaningful, impactful, important unrequested critical needs. Are you meeting? Yeah. Yeah. Without someone asking. Yeah. Now is, is you talked about Jackson, Mississippi you're there there's some, there's some trepidation who was this brother in the room. And after a two hour period, a transformation happened, you guys are like getting along, getting on nicely. Like you've been friends for a while. The same thing occurred when you were in Milwaukee, two hours. And here they were nervous. Okay. These, these are, these are women who voted for Trump. They're now on the fence, undecided. And here you are as a Black man, the moderator to have this conversation and the clients are a little, little nervous about it, but kind of like a long tail cat in a rocking chair convention. They're not quite sure like what to do around here. And after two hours, there's a change. Kevin, you have an additional gift and well you have many, but this one I want to point out is that you have the ability to transform a person's mindset in a two hour period. This is hard to do. Yeah. Kevin, this is hard to do. And you're able to do that. Not by attempting to change. But by getting them to reveal themselves to others and to themselves. This is, I've seen you do this so many times, so many times. And so what I say to the Brand Nerds here in learning from Kevin, as I have learned from Kevin, is if you're in a situation professional, personal, and the first thing in your mind is I wish I could change fill in the blank, get rid of the word change. Get your mind into "what can I do to help them reveal more to me and reveal more to themselves." It's the revealing that you do. And the combination of meeting these unrequested critical needs, Kevin for you and the ability to get people, to reveal these things make you like a, like a superhero, Kevin you're like a superhero brother. So this is what I've gotten from you my brother in this conversation that hadn't crystallized in this fashion until listening to you today. LT: There's your flowers, Kev. Kevin Knight: Thank you. DC: Welcome. LT: Wow. It's all true. DC: Welcome brother. Well, that's a great way to close a. This has been a fantastic show guys. Kevin, thanks so much for coming and Brand Nerds out there. Thanks for some, I'm sorry, Larry. I know your buddy hit the show close that I didn't know now. I just want to ask Kevin, it's not that you have to have this. I know we're knowing the what's popping your Senate bill to build on ours. Is there anything you you've learned or gleaned from your conversation with us? I'm sorry, Larry. LT: Thank you, D. Kevin Knight: We, I forgot to ask that is all, you know, until you sit down and listen to people kind of help you understand. You know, in some ways, you know, I can go out and do, I'm not thinking constantly. I'm thinking about, I am thinking about connecting to people. I am thinking about listening to people, but for you to organize, I mean, you've organized my thoughts and you've organized my approach to things and it's clear. I've never been, I've never heard that. That's extremely clear. I mean, you've, you've synthesized, my brain, you know, you've done that. Yeah. Thank you. DC: You're welcome, brother. Very thank you, Kevin. Thank you. LT: Thrilled to have you, and we you've done so much for us. If we can do a small thing for you where we're happy. DC: Absolutely. Okay. Okay. I just want to say it as one of the things Larry and I, we go get, get to the show clothes. Is that Kevin. I respect lots of people. I enjoy spending time with lots of people. I learned from lots of people can learn from anyone. I don't admire many people. I don't. Admiration is not a adjective, a descriptor that I use for many people. Kevin, I admire you. As a Black entrepreneur, seeing you do your thing while I was still in the comfy environs of the corporate like labyrinths, gave me inspiration that when it was my time to step out that I could do it because I saw you. I saw Tom Burrell. I saw Don Cornelius. Because I saw you brothers, I thought it's possible for me to do it. So. This show has been fulfilling to my soul because I've gotten the chance to spend time with you and Larry, and you are someone that I admire, kevin Knight. Kevin Knight: Thank you so much. Wow. LT: Hey, and you know what that's, I'm so glad you said that the, because we set it at the top of the show that Kevin's one of the most impressive people we know, and I think that was illuminated here in many ways. DC: Cool. LT: All right. So now we are going to the show closed. Kevin, thanks so much for joining us and to the Brand Nerds out there. Thanks so much for listening to Brands, Beats, & Bytes recorded virtually on Zoom and a production of KZSU, Stanford 90.1 FM radio worldwide kzsu.org. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, myself, Larry Taman, and Haley Cobbin, Jade Tate and Tom Dioro. Yes, sir. And if you are listening to, to us via podcast, it would be great. If you can please rate and review us. Additionally, if you do like the show, please subscribe and share. We hope you enjoyed this podcast. And we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing with another great business leader as our guests.