Latest / Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News / Joe Kent on strategic collapse and America’s drift to war

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Joe Kent on strategic collapse and America’s drift to war · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:11
  It's the tip of despair in the epic battle to defend the United States of America.
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  The National Security Hour exposes the wolves in chief's clothing and the nefarious plots to undermine and destroy U.S.
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  national security.
• 0:31
  Hello and welcome to the National Security Hour.
• 0:34
  Thank you for joining us on the mission.
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  The National Security Hour is the tip of the spear in the epic battle to defend the United States of America.
• 0:42
  I'm Brandon Weikert, your friendly neighborhood host.
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  You can catch me right here every single Wednesday night at 8 p.m.
• 0:51
  Eastern.
• 0:52
  And you can follow me at We the Brandon on Twitter X.
• 0:56
  Dr.
• 0:57
  Mike, why don't you introduce yourself?
• 0:59
  Yeah, my name is Mike Scheuer.
• 1:01
  And I uh I worked at the agency at CIA for 22 years and have written some books about Osama bin Laden and uh uh militant Islam.
• 1:11
  And uh I aspire to be a historian, but I'm pretty much grandfather these days.
• 1:17
  And I'm very honored we are uh we are joined by by my friend, a man who was kind enough uh two years ago to give me uh a rather lovely blurb for my my recent book, A Disaster of Our Own Making, How the West Lost Ukraine, and then he got pulled in to the Trump administration, and and he is now uh recently resigned from his post as the head of the National Counterterrorism Center, none other than uh Joe Kent.
• 1:41
  It's nice to have you here, Joe.
• 1:44
  Great to be with both of you.
• 1:45
  Thanks for having me.
• 1:46
  Absolutely.
• 1:47
  And uh so we're gonna we're gonna open up with uh the the big news.
• 1:52
  And the big news is is that um Joe Kent has resigned from the NCTC position, and um clearly this is now become kind of a political hot potato.
• 2:05
  Uh Joe, have you been surprised by some of the response from some of your former colleagues, or are you were you expecting some of this pushback that you're getting?
• 2:16
  You know, I was expecting, yeah.
• 2:18
  I I think that the pushback is about what I expected.
• 2:21
  Uh I didn't think it my resignation would get as much traction as it did, as much attention outside of like national security circles.
• 2:28
  So that's been that's more surprising to me.
• 2:31
  Yeah.
• 2:32
  You know, it's it's interesting.
• 2:34
  Um Sebastian Gorka, I saw him yesterday at the council on foreign relations.
• 2:39
  He he had he had claims that he left you a rather nasty voicemail.
• 2:43
  Is there any truth to that?
• 2:45
  He wrote in his resignation letter, Iran posed no imminent threat to our nation, and it is clear that we started this war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby.
• 2:55
  Uh, in response, you wrote on X quote, he was a man without honor and you disgrace.
• 3:01
  Just to be clear, was he wrong about those allegations?
• 3:05
  Well, you could ask him because three months ago he said the exact opposite of what he said in his disgraceful resignation letter.
• 3:13
  So either he was lying then, or he's lying now, or most likely because he's not a principal, he's not a cabinet member.
• 3:21
  He is not in those meetings where that exquisite intelligence is provided.
• 3:26
  He said Iran has to be dealt with.
• 3:29
  The president is correct.
• 3:30
  A scant few weeks ago.
• 3:32
  So what changed, Joe?
• 3:34
  What do you think?
• 3:36
  Uh personally speaking.
• 3:40
  I stand by what I said.
• 3:42
  He's an utter disgrace.
• 3:44
  Um, I'll tell you the voicemail I left him yesterday.
• 3:49
  You are an utter disgrace to the uniform you want swore, to the republic for which it stands.
• 3:57
  The fact that you use the name of your late wife.
• 4:00
  There's a political cudgel against the elected president to command in chief.
• 4:06
  He's utterly inexcusable.
• 4:09
  He he did indeed.
• 4:10
  I mean, I wouldn't say it's nasty.
• 4:12
  Look, it's Gorka, he's kind of playing a part here.
• 4:14
  Um I got actually got along just fine.
• 4:17
  I got along just finally said when we worked together, so but now I, you know, he's he's doing his thing.
• 4:22
  Yeah.
• 4:23
  Covering his own butt, which is his main occupation in life.
• 4:28
  Yeah, exactly.
• 4:30
  And and I should I should clarify for the audience, uh, because he is the senior director uh at the National Security Council for counterterrorism.
• 4:39
  You guys worked pretty closely together.
• 4:43
  We did.
• 4:43
  We had we had just a fine working relationship.
• 4:45
  I mean, some I know there's a lot of people like on the internet who have an opinion about about Gorkha.
• 4:50
  He's he's fine to work with.
• 4:51
  So, you know, but I I kind of figure he'd he'd kind of come out like this.
• 4:55
  It's all right.
• 4:56
  Okay.
• 4:56
  Okay.
• 4:57
  Okay.
• 4:58
  So you've you've you've left the administration, you're doing this whirlwind uh media tour.
• 5:04
  Um is there it was the reason that you ultimately left, is it because you feared where things were going with the Iran war, or was this sort of just one of many steps you were taking to leave?
• 5:22
  I say it's twofold.
• 5:23
  I mean, number one, I I don't believe uh, and I think I can prove this, that we got into this war because Iran posed an imminent threat to us.
• 5:34
  I think the Israelis forced our hand.
• 5:36
  Um senior members of the administration, Secretary of State, the president, I mean, have even basically said this themselves.
• 5:43
  And as a matter of conscience, I think that's wrong and to have a foreign country tell us when and how we go to war.
• 5:49
  But also, you know, just being a veteran myself and uh Gold Star husband, uh a promise I made to myself many years ago was if I have I ever had the ability to attempt to stop us from getting into needless war, I'd do everything I could, even if it meant like resigning and we can he can get into some more, but the the way that the this the decision to take us to war in this last iteration was made.
• 6:11
  I don't think there was any other way for me to actually have my voice heard within the administration.
• 6:16
  Um so my hope is truly to reach President Trump, and he doesn't have to you know acknowledge me or anything, but it's it's to make him think that uh maybe now is a good time to seek other advice and and to change course because things are heading in in a catastrophic direction.
• 6:33
  Now, when you say catastrophic direction, and I I obviously I think you're aware of where I stand on this.
• 6:39
  What what exactly do you mean?
• 6:41
  Do you mean a strategic defeat of the United States military?
• 6:45
  Do you mean nuclear weapons exchange?
• 6:47
  What would what do you mean by catastrophic um uh uh outcome?
• 6:53
  I think we're already seeing a catastrophic preview, I guess, how you could put it in terms of what's happening on the global market, which I think both of you are very familiar with in terms of uh energy production.
• 7:04
  Our goal of the GCC partners, I I think are in a very, very bad place, and it's going to take them quite a while to recover.
• 7:12
  Um so that economic impact is already massive, but then in terms of like the power and the prestige of the the U.S.
• 7:19
  military and the the ability for us to continue to be the security guarantors of the region, I think is probably shattered for a long time, if not for the very foreseeable future.
• 7:30
  And I'm also way I'm also very, very concerned of losing more American lives over there.
• 7:35
  The potential of ground troops like you're hearing on the Sunday shows today, this this crazy idea of basically making a bunch of Marines the hostage of Iran by putting them on this Crag Island.
• 7:46
  Um, but also because Iran is so big and we've set the bar at some kind of a total surrender, as crazy as nuclear weapons sound.
• 7:54
  The more you play out this equation, I I do fear that the the Israelis would be tempted to use a nuclear weapon.
• 8:02
  Yeah, I I actually am with you on that, and I think actually the IDF former IDF guy that I was spoken speaking with recently.
• 8:11
  The the claim is that um IDF believes the U.S.
• 8:16
  invasion will fail, yet they're still their government is still pressing Trump to do this, and uh it could very well end with an Israeli nuclear attack because they they think that we're not going to succeed when all said and done.
• 8:30
  Um why is this happening, Joe?
• 8:32
  What like why why are we in this position?
• 8:34
  Because three weeks ago, things were going okay.
• 8:39
  Yeah, you know, essentially at the very beginning of the the Trump administration, there was a push uh for military action inside of Iran.
• 8:47
  Uh this time last year-ish is when it kind of started in my from from my vantage point.
• 8:52
  Um President Trump rightfully said, no, I want to try and negotiate.
• 8:56
  And the issue that I think the the Iran hawks in the Israeli lobby had was that Trump was probably very well postured, in my opinion, to get a nuclear deal.
• 9:06
  Because President Trump's red line, as he stated it, was that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon.
• 9:12
  The Ayatollah, the former Ayatollah before he was killed, he had a uh prohibition, a fatwa, on actually making a nuclear weapon, which means they could get to the negotiating table.
• 9:22
  I think in the first Trump administration, the killing of Qasim Solmani, the maximum pressure sanctions showed that President Trump was like very pragmatic, very tough.
• 9:30
  You had to deal with him, but that he was reasonable.
• 9:32
  And so if your goal is to get regime change in Iran, you have to short circuit this process.
• 9:38
  You can't have Trump and the Ayatollah agreeing at a starting point for negotiations.
• 9:42
  So in a very, very slick and concerted way from my vantage point, I saw senior senior level leaders from the Israeli side come in and say, zero enrichment, zero enrichment, over and over again.
• 9:55
  The Iranians can't have any enrichment capability.
• 9:58
  And then we hit the talking point in lawn.
• 10:00
  By all the project heads, Mark Levin, FDD, Washington Post, New York Post, etc.
• 10:07
  about how enrichment basically equals a nuclear bomb, which it doesn't.
• 10:11
  And so then they said it enough that it started making its way into official U.S.
• 10:14
  talking points that the American policy is no enrichment, which just wasn't the case whatsoever.
• 10:21
  And that kind of got us in Midnight Hammer, and right before Midnight Hammer kicked off.
• 10:25
  A lot of us said very, you know, through experience, we said, hey, even if we do Midnight Hammer and it's completely successful, the Israelis are going to come back to us in six months and demand support for the regime change.
• 10:36
  And that's what happened.
• 10:37
  This is my big issue is that we let the Israelis fly the timeline.
• 10:42
  We let the Israelis blow up the negotiations.
• 10:46
  Um that's kind of how we got to this point where we are right now.
• 10:49
  And the Israelis basically back us into a corner.
• 10:51
  Because I even the second round of negotiations, I think was going to be more challenging post-midnight hammer, but it was making some progress.
• 10:58
  And again, the Israelis just basically said, No, we're going to do it, and then the Iranians will attack you.
• 11:05
  And here we are.
• 11:07
  So the Israelis, it sounds like are all over our intelligence um collection process, our vetting process.
• 11:16
  Dr.
• 11:16
  Mike, do you have any any question on related to the obvious intelligence manipulation and or intelligence failures for Mr.
• 11:24
  Kent?
• 11:25
  I think there's there are both failures, they are apparent.
• 11:30
  But the greatest failure is in language.
• 11:33
  The only immediate threat to the United States is those units, those paramilitaries who were sent into the country over the last four or five years and have not been cleaned up yet.
• 11:49
  Little maybe not even identified yet.
• 11:52
  That's the immediate threat.
• 11:54
  You know, every day an American wakes up at dawn and goes to bed at 10 or 12.
• 12:00
  He's he is under an immediate threat from the Soviet Union and China.
• 12:07
  But we have a relationship with them that allows us to be somewhat secure that they're not going to jump off the board for the sake of jumping off.
• 12:15
  And when you talk about an immediate threat from Iran, it is nowhere in the in the conception of man.
• 12:25
  The equivalent to the threat that we face day in and day out from China and uh Russia.
• 12:34
  I'm sorry.
• 12:35
  That's okay.
• 12:36
  I'm I'm very old man.
• 12:40
  It's the way they fool people with that is just uh typical of government.
• 12:47
  There's no possible reason to think that the Iranians were an in uh immediate threat to the United States.
• 12:54
  Uh they're not suicidal.
• 12:57
  Uh it my own my own view is on what Mr.
• 13:01
  Flint said is that the Israelis are at the base of all of our problems in the Middle East.
• 13:08
  They're they are there was a movie about World War II called They Were Expendable, and it fits the Israelis perfectly.
• 13:16
  They're nothing but a uh a continuing flat tire on the American car.
• 13:22
  And as long as they're there, we're going to be um, as Mr.
• 13:28
  Flint said, controlled by foreign uh enemies.
• 13:33
  And let there be no mistake, they are an enemy of everything that the United States stands for.
• 13:38
  Whether it's the first amendment, the second amendment, um, independence, uh foreign policy that that is concerned with America first.
• 13:49
  Uh it it's a disastrous situation for the United States, and for whatever reason, Trump seems not to mind being the play toy of a person, uh a destitute person like uh uh Netanyahu.
• 14:05
  So I I have no doubt that what what uh Mr.
• 14:08
  Flint is saying is accurate, and it's about time someone in the government in more recent years has begun to say, what goes on here?
• 14:19
  You know, why why are 525 American uh congressmen and senators being paid by the Israelis that should not take a big brain to understand is that that it that that's uh not in the interest of the United States.
• 14:37
  And and Joe, just so the audience understands.
• 14:40
  I mean, because something that Gorka and a lot of the people from the administration who are attacking you or or criticizing your your recent resignation, they're saying that well, uh Mr.
• 14:51
  Kent didn't have the same level of intelligence access that uh you know the president has.
• 14:57
  What is the level of access that you had as NCTC director?
• 15:01
  Because I would assume it's fairly high.
• 15:05
  Yeah, I mean, there's always some you know special access program or or something else that you know, uh select people are read into, but anything pertaining to CT at the top levels I was read into.
• 15:15
  So an imminent attack, I I'm pretty sure that I would have known of, or at least known the broad themes of.
• 15:21
  Yeah.
• 15:22
  Uh and look, I'm pretty well versed in in the Iranian target set from you know my previous life, and this this takes up a lot of our a lot of our bandwidth at NTTC as the Iranian threat.
• 15:32
  Um, and look, there was no there wasn't anything uh there was no imminent threat coming from Iran.
• 15:37
  And look, under especially this Trump administration, we have a lot of data that's publicly available.
• 15:42
  We have a really good idea of what the Iranian escalation ladder looks like.
• 15:46
  Under Biden, Iran's proxies had attract attacked our troops and killed uh three of them uh at Tower 22.
• 15:53
  But there was over, I think, close to 200 attacks after October 7th by the proxies against American forces in Iraq and Syria and Jordan.
• 16:00
  Once Trump came in back into office, those stop those attacks stopped.
• 16:05
  There was a moratorium on attacking America.
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  Mike is still firmly with us, uh, riding strong uh as we we explore what's going on in the Middle East with really one of the one of the foremost uh experts, I would argue, of military affairs in the Middle East and in counterterrorism, uh, none other than the recently former um national counterterrorism center director, Joe Kent.
• 21:18
  Um and then we went and got the negotiating table, and then we watched again when the 12-day war kicked off, the uh the Iranians were pretty deliberate at not hitting our bases and not hitting Americans because they understood it was the Israelis after Midnight Hammer, the Iranians watched an equal number of missiles that we dropped bombs at like an empty corner of one of our bases on Qatar that they knew that we had evacuated and said, okay, we'd like to get back to the negotiating table now.
• 21:43
  So we we have a lot of data to understand exactly how Iran will escalate.
• 21:47
  So I completely reject the the idea that there was there was any kind of imminent attack.
• 21:52
  And you know what?
• 21:52
  This isn't controversial because Marco Rubio came out right away and said, like, we had to attack because the Israelis are going to attack.
• 22:01
  So the only end of the attack was the Israeli attack.
• 22:06
  Okay.
• 22:06
  Joe was just explaining to us why he doubted, and I think he's right, why he doubted the the intelligence that was uh that that fell from the sky uh two weeks ago saying that the uh the Iranians were imminently going to strike us with um whatever wonder weapons we think they've built in the in the in the mountains over there.
• 22:27
  Um Joe, now that you um now that you've you've come out and you've said this, um, what do you think uh is likely going to happen?
• 22:40
  Are are you of the mind that the U.S.
• 22:43
  really will attack Carg Island because 5,000 Marines or less doesn't sound like it's gonna be much of a success for us.
• 22:52
  Do you think that this is just the president's sort of um posturing here, or do you really think he's gonna try to do this?
• 23:00
  I mean, I I pray and I hope and I and I hope that we can influence him from the outside.
• 23:05
  This is kind of like why I went on Tucker, and I'm going on as many many shows as I can.
• 23:09
  Um I I hope, and I pray that he is not going to do that, that he's just having them there as a contingency to show strength, etc.
• 23:17
  Um, so I I hope that he's not listening to I hope he stops listening to the people that got us to this point, because I believe President Trump is still a very smart man.
• 23:26
  If he sees the way things are going right now, especially the impacts it's having here on the homeland in terms of economics, the the effect of the casualties, he should he should seek other counsel at this time.
• 23:38
  Um that's my hope.
• 23:39
  Because whoever right now is telling him that he should deploy forces to Carg Island, and I saw again, I saw a bunch of senators and some congressmen talking about it today on the Sunday shows, he needs to kick them out of the Oval Office and talk to some dissenting voices right now to get other options.
• 23:53
  And I and I I've said this on Tucker and I said it again last night.
• 23:57
  Before he does anything, if he wants to get out of this, his first task is to restrain the Israelis.
• 24:03
  Because if you don't restrain the Israelis, everything else is going to fail.
• 24:07
  Why do you think the Israelis are so gung-ho right now about doing this?
• 24:13
  I mean, what what do you what is going on in in that part of the world that is prompting them?
• 24:18
  Is there any real security reason for this, or is this just all political internal Israeli machinations?
• 24:27
  Well, I'm no, I'm no expert on the dynamics of what's taking place.
• 24:31
  But uh obviously BB was in political hot water to say the very least prior to October 7th, and so the continuation of the conflict, you know, in theory, I mean in general, I think wars are good for most sitting presidents.
• 24:42
  So that seems to be the theory Bibi's going with.
• 24:44
  But I do think, you know, based on just talking to uh prominent Israelis either in or out of the government, they viewed the Lakud leaning ones, they view this time as like their golden opportunity to take down the the Ayatollah, the Iranian threat once and for all.
• 25:01
  They've already gotten rid of Assad, they've they've basically decapitated Hezbollah.
• 25:06
  Um so getting out right now going after what they consider to be the head of the snake is in their is in their national interest.
• 25:13
  They think with Trump in office, this is a limited window.
• 25:16
  Because I think they understand here domestically in America that this might be the last truly kind of I guess for lack of better term, baby boomer generation that's just blindly pro-Israel that they're they're going to get.
• 25:27
  And the Israelis, to me, were always very straightforward when we would deal with them.
• 25:32
  They would never they unless they were trying to uh influence us, they wouldn't talk about enrichment nuclear, etc.
• 25:38
  They would talk about we need to take down the Ayatollah and do it now, and we don't really care if it's long and protracted and bloody.
• 25:45
  Wow.
• 25:47
  Well, bloody bloody for us.
• 25:49
  Uh, you know, uh definitely for yeah.
• 25:54
  So, Dr.
• 25:54
  Mike, do you have anything you want to you want to do?
• 25:57
  One thing that I think what I intend years ago when I worked for the agency, I was astounded by the most senior officers knowing virtually nothing about the Middle East and not caring.
• 26:13
  John Brennan wasn't genius enough.
• 26:15
  No, he wasn't genius enough.
• 26:17
  But I I would doubt that a senior American political leader, president, senator, ever read a single word that Osama bin Laden said.
• 26:30
  And yet within those documents is what we're seeing unfold today.
• 26:37
  That these people are smart, they're good analysts, and they know how far they can push and are surprised constantly by the fact that we don't listen to them.
• 26:51
  Yeah.
• 26:51
  You know, there is an extraordinary um uh stupidity when we talk about Iran as if they're all crazy people.
• 27:02
  And we don't maybe we don't disagree with them, but their operations are based on what they believe their national security interests are.
• 27:12
  And we can't we we regard that as uh you know uh mindless terrorism or um juvenile uh uh uh kind of behavior.
• 27:27
  In reality, they fight with what they have when they can.
• 27:32
  And it just we we uh we we're walking down this road, and even though we've gone out uh we've had two or three wars in the last six months, yeah, last year rather, uh we seem not to have realized that the Iranians and probably many other Islamist countries, Islamic countries, are not no longer the Arabs who uh uh Peter O'Toole rallied against the Germans.
• 28:02
  Uh that they may have studied a little bit about physics, about uh uh armature arms and and other kinds of modern things.
• 28:12
  You know, this whole business looks to me like we this is a shocker for the U.S.
• 28:17
  intelligence community.
• 28:18
  In the sense of the the you know very impressive ability of the Iranians to use a variety of homemade missiles to really blast the hell out of what's trying to hurt them.
• 28:35
  And and Joe, do you think that our side has been genuinely taken aback by the level of ferocity and effectiveness of the Iranian well, first of all, let me just ask you do you think, in your professional opinion, the Iranians have been effective in countering us, and if you do, uh, do you think that our side was um not well prepared for that?
• 29:01
  I think they've been I think they've been very effective.
• 29:04
  I I mean, however, there there's there's two worlds that exist.
• 29:08
  There's one that uh consistently reads the intelligence and studies it, and then there was a unfortunately a small group of senior decision late lead decision makers who isolated themselves from any dissenting voices and listened to the Israelis and listen to the the logic that wasn't backed up by any intelligence that said, hey, a month ago there was a bunch of Iranian protesters out there, and that means the regime is really, really weak.
• 29:34
  And if you just come and you make some really really big bold strikes, these same people who were on the streets protesting are then going to I I guess overthrow their their government and all of our strategic goals are going to be very, very easy to accomplish, and this whole thing will be done in I don't know, four weeks or so.
• 29:52
  Yeah.
• 29:52
  Um but there was no intelligence.
• 29:53
  I didn't read any intelligence that reflected that.
• 29:56
  When we were having robust debates, as we are supposed to do at the deputies.
• 30:00
  Level and at the NS at the National Security Council level in the lead up to the 12-day war in midnight hammer.
• 30:06
  We we widely agreed that any kind of strikes against the regime would result in a rally around the flag effect, which actually, if our goal was to take down the regime, would empower the hardliners, which is what we've seen.
• 30:19
  I mean, I the obviously Supreme Leader Commode's son, I believe, is even more hardline than his father, and we're also empowering members of the IRGC who are basically saying, like the moderates got us in this mess.
• 30:31
  Don't all these guys who were saying we can sit down with the Americans, they got duped twice.
• 30:35
  They're a bunch of suckers.
• 30:36
  And the IRGC, like I mean, most of us know, these are hardcore guys.
• 30:40
  I mean, they fought in the Iraq-Iran War, they fought us very effectively in our own Iraq war, Hezbollah, etc.
• 30:47
  So unfortunately, the sea our our senior level uh policymakers, they didn't listen to the actual intelligence.
• 30:54
  They listened to what the Israelis were telling them through unofficial channels, and then they listened to the Israeli surrogates on the media, and they created their own echo chamber.
• 31:03
  And that's again how we got to this point.
• 31:06
  And it is in your in your resignation letter, just so the in case the audience hasn't heard it, you do have a comment in there that I I really thought was excellent.
• 31:16
  Uh, when you this was your you say this was a lie, and is the same tactic the Israelis used to draw us into the disastrous Iraq war that cost our nation the lives of thousands of our best men and women.
• 31:29
  We cannot make this mistake again.
• 31:31
  So you you fought in Iraq.
• 31:34
  You spent well with your entire adult life basically uh fighting these these global wars on terror uh in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere.
• 31:44
  Um do you believe that the Iraq war like this one was the byproduct of some Israeli information operation targeting the U.S.
• 31:57
  government in 2002 and 2003?
• 32:02
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:03
  And I think the public record really supports that.
• 32:05
  I mean, again, it was it was it was a young Benjamin Netanyahu who had previously been the prime minister.
• 32:09
  I think he was somewhere else in the government at the time, but he came here and he lobbied, and he's a very convincing salesman.
• 32:15
  He came and he said basically, you know, Saddam's on the cusp of getting a WMD, gonna have catastrophic effects on on America.
• 32:21
  I think they even held launder the idea that Saddam was linked to Al-Qaeda.
• 32:26
  Um then you you also had the entire Israeli like media, pro-Israeli media apparatus here in America, SD again, and a few other think tanks doing the same thing with with the media.
• 32:38
  So obviously they partnered with the neocons, they partnered with the military industrial complex, so they they weren't the sole actor driving that train, but they had a big influence, and the Israelis do a very effective job, I think, not just of the media game, but they do have an impressive intelligence service that can that can carry out very impressive, I would say, like tactical operations, you know, assassinations deep behind enemy lines, and that really intrigues a lot of people.
• 33:00
  So then when the Israelis come and say, hey, I have a secret tell you, you guys don't know this yet, and then they they kind of get then they then they give you their talking points.
• 33:08
  Like a lot of people who aren't well versed in intelligence will say, Oh, wow, this has got to be good.
• 33:12
  It's coming from the Israelis.
• 33:14
  Um that's that's what appeared to happen, you know, with the Leopard Iraq War and in this war.
• 33:20
  Dr.
• 33:21
  Mike, um, you were an early critic of the Iraq war.
• 33:25
  Um dangerous is it for the country to have political leaders who basically take in unverified claims as fact uh from foreign sources.
• 33:42
  I can't imagine I can't think of another time, another country that we do that for other than Israel.
• 33:47
  Can you think of any other instant?
• 33:49
  Yeah.
• 33:50
  I can't think of one.
• 33:51
  But uh, you know, it's it's true enough with the Iranians uh with the Israelis, it's a combination of the trmendously effective um third column or fifth column, fourth, whatever column it is they've created in the United States from Protestants to to some weird Catholics to uh all of the Congress.
• 34:17
  I mean, how do you do that?
• 34:19
  You do that, you know, by misinterpreting misinterpreting the Bible, by paying off people, by threatening people, by doing what they did apparently to Charlie Kirk.
• 34:32
  I mean, we're in the grip of as evil in our own terms as as in as evil organization that there exists in the world, and we we cowtow to it.
• 34:48
  And the the whole the whole business of uh America being involved in Iraq uh or or Afghanistan earlier, and the quality of our generals in terms of leadership is is abysmal.
• 35:09
  We can't go aboard uh abroad to fight a war if we have clowns like the the fellow that they keep now going.
• 35:17
  I think he's been sicked on uh uh Mr.
• 35:21
  Flint.
• 35:22
  Um he lost in Afghanistan, he lost in in Iraq.
• 35:27
  They made him CIA director, and then he they found out that he's playing around with a woman, and they got rid of him.
• 35:33
  You're talking about Ratcliffe?
• 35:34
  No, no, it's the general guy.
• 35:38
  Oh yeah, Petraeus, yeah.
• 35:40
  The clown of clowns in uniform.
• 35:42
  Yeah.
• 35:43
  And it's really astounding how Americans, American citizens put up with it.
• 35:49
  Maybe they don't realize it, maybe they don't want to realize uh admit it.
• 35:53
  But we are under the clo the paw uh of foreigners more often than not in our decisions for war.
• 36:01
  And and Joe, Joe, are you because I again I'm seeing all the pushback from people that we mutually know, people that I would think knew you before you resigned and were probably very friendly with you.
• 36:15
  Um is there any concern among with you know that you have about you know possible unfair treatment that they might try to you know come at you legally, or has there been any indication other than just sort of these these you know vituperations from people like Gorka, or do you think there might be uh a campaign now coordinated against you for for daring to question the status quo?
• 36:43
  I'm sure there will be to some extent.
• 36:45
  I I've only seen what's been leaked on the media, so like the the accusations that I I am a leaker that have been leaked by the FBI to the mainstream media.
• 36:53
  That's what I've seen.
• 36:55
  But most of that coincided with me going on major platforms like Tucker Show.
• 36:59
  So I viewed that more as like a counter-media narrative.
• 37:03
  Um I'm confident that like I followed all the procedures and I didn't, you know, I know I didn't leak.
• 37:08
  And so I'm sure they're looking through all my stuff right now to see if they've got me.
• 37:11
  I obviously my antennas up because uh because of what happened to a good man like General Flynn and some of the others too.
• 37:17
  So it's it's a concern, but man, I'm like, we can't let these people intimidate us anymore.
• 37:23
  I mean, that's why I just tried that's why I just tried to be as clear as I could in my resignation letter, speak the truth now.
• 37:30
  And you know, I I think right now with the with social media, I think it it helps because it does give uh people who are willing to stand up.
• 37:38
  It gives us a platform and kind of the ability to make it public, and it makes that it makes it a little bit harder for them to come after us.
• 37:45
  Not impossible, but harder.
• 37:47
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• 40:23
  The national security hour is the tip of the spear in the epic battle to defend the United States of America.
• 40:29
  I'm Brandon Wykert, your host of action.
• 40:32
  You can catch me right here every Wednesday night at 8 p.m.
• 40:35
  Eastern.
• 40:36
  And you can follow me at We the Brandon on Twitter X.
• 40:40
  We begin our final second.
• 40:57
  Because a lot of the stuff I'm hearing borders on defamation.
• 41:00
  I'm not an attorney, but I've been around enough to know I'm very surprised with how how some of these attacks on you are sounding.
• 41:11
  Because I'm seeing Raheem Kassam is now tweeting that he's hearing from his sources in the White House that Trump is talking about doing negotiations to end the war beginning at the end of this month, so in about a week.
• 41:50
  And I think the only way to actually truly restrain the Israelis, it's it's not just telling them you have to go to the Israelis and you have to say we are taking away features of your defense, your military aid, so that all you can do is defend yourself.
• 42:03
  And we will defend you too if you are attacked.
• 42:06
  However, you will not.
• 42:07
  We will take away enough aid that you can't go on the offense.
• 42:11
  All of our negotiations will fail regardless of how skilled of the diplomats are, how good the deal is, unless Israel is restrained.
• 42:18
  That's fundamental to the equation.
• 42:21
  I I think that's probably correct.
• 42:23
  And I will just say it looks like contrary to what Western media sources are reporting, whether not reporting it, I'm seeing on foreign sources, it looks like Israel is getting pummeled right now.
• 42:33
  So there might be some wiggle room now diplomatically, hopefully, because they're so weakened.
• 42:40
  Um they might not have a choice but to listen to us finally rather than trying to dictate to us.
• 42:45
  We're gonna take a our final commercial break.
• 42:48
  Uh, I am Brandon Wikert.
• 42:49
  I'm the Wednesday night host of the National Security Hour.
• 42:52
  You can also check me out on National Security Talk on Rumble, and I am co-hosting the Monday show with uh none other than the great Dr.
• 43:00
  Mike.
• 43:00
  We will be right back with Joe Kent for our final segment.
• 43:04
  Don't touch that dial.
• 43:06
  Okay, and then Dr.
• 43:08
  Mike, is this one also 18 minutes?
• 43:10
  Yes, sir.
• 43:11
  All right.
• 43:12
  All right.
• 43:13
  This is great.
• 43:14
  I wish we had video, but this is great.
• 43:16
  This is great.
• 43:17
  Um, I'm gonna count us down five, four, three, two, and one.
• 43:24
  We are back for our final segment with Joe Kent, uh, who's a friend of mine, and he's he's filling us in about what's going on with the Middle East, Iran, the political fallout from his, I think, quite honorable resignation letter.
• 43:43
  Um something that I do want to ask him about, it's sort of really in his bailiwick as the former National Counterterrorism Center director.
• 43:51
  We keep hearing from the administration, Joe, um, that the there is a wave of terrorism that could soon be hitting the uh you know the fruited plains of America conducted by Iranian proxies.
• 44:07
  Do you think that that that is a real threat at this moment, or do you think that, like the the pre-war intelligence might be overhyped?
• 44:18
  Well, I I think because of the open borders of the past four years, we we frankly don't know who's in our country.
• 44:23
  I I testified publicly um that we had identified uh 18,000 known suspected terrorists who had access to America, and the more we dug through the data, we can't we kept coming up with these different data sets.
• 44:35
  The conclusion I came to was like we we just don't know, which is makes us incredibly vulnerable.
• 44:40
  But I think the the biggest threat comes from people being inspired to conduct terrorist attacks, not necessarily like a cell of clandestine terrorists infiltrating in America like we saw uh pre-9-11.
• 44:54
  Um because like in general, with cells, they have to communicate, and I think right now, knock on wood, we're we're pretty proficient at breaking those cells up when they do that.
• 45:03
  But what we're not very good at, because it's uh it's almost impossible, is the lone actors that are inspired to conduct attacks, like we've already seen several attacks since the operations kicked off in Iran, and they all appear to be basically lone actors, minus one who's got some tangential ties, I think, back home to um individuals who are associated with with Hezbollah.
• 45:22
  But our our assessment going into the war was that the lone actors, and then also like anti-Iran, just like the way the the Gaza conflict grew legs of its own and inspiring people, that that was the biggest threat.
• 45:34
  So, really the blowback terrorism or the inspirational terrorism.
• 45:39
  Yeah, I mean, I talked with I think someone you know, uh Sam Fattis uh about a week or two ago, and uh, you know, he reminded me that the largest Iranian consulate in the world is in Mexico City, and as he said, it's not because of all the Shiites living in Mexico City.
• 45:56
  So yeah, go ahead.
• 46:04
  Or I was gonna be sarcastic and say, you know, well known uh birthplace of one of the imams, right?
• 46:08
  That's right.
• 46:09
  That's right.
• 46:10
  So, Dr.
• 46:10
  Mike, do you have any comment on the potential uh his go ahead.
• 46:15
  No, I was just gonna say, uh, Brandon, that the one thing that is doesn't get talked about very much, of course, is how the enemy is thinking and what they're doing.
• 46:25
  And it seems to me that the Iranians and much of the Muslim world must be thinking this is it.
• 46:33
  This is the one time we are close to solving this this sickness, this uh absence that's tied to the body of the Muslim world and the Israelis.
• 46:46
  Why would they give up now?
• 46:49
  I I I don't know the answer to that, but I don't know the Israeli mind very well, or the Iranian mind very well.
• 46:56
  I but I think that they've all been, whether it's Shia or Sunni, they've been around the block enough times to realize that if they don't at some point eliminate this uh debt threat to their their faith to their countries, to their control of their countries, that it's just gonna happen over and over again.
• 47:18
  They've never come this close.
• 47:20
  And I don't know how their minds work, but I wonder if they're not thinking, my God, we should have never got this close to what's going on at the moment.
• 47:28
  Maybe we should finish it.
• 47:30
  Yeah.
• 47:31
  Yeah.
• 47:31
  I I I am concerned about the home front, but I I also worry that this is a ripe moment for a false flag.
• 47:40
  Um, Joe, do you have any thoughts on that?
• 47:44
  I don't.
• 47:45
  I haven't seen the indications of that, but you know, I mean, yeah, more war is chaotic and crazy, so discount anything.
• 47:52
  So, okay, so we're let me ask you this, Joe.
• 47:56
  Uh, do you think this is the beginnings or that we are already in potentially a third world war, or do you still think this is a regional war that we could contain and and and end without this thing escalating into something like 1914?
• 48:14
  She's very much like we're in the middle of a regional war, the early phases of World War III.
• 48:19
  I mean, the the biggest benefactor so far has been China.
• 48:22
  They're still getting a good flow of oil, they're settling the transactions in Yuan as opposed to the petrodollar attacking the stability of the dollar.
• 48:30
  Russia, um, I think we're having to either unsanction or just look the other way.
• 48:35
  Yep, uh, and a lot of their oil that we had sanctioned during the Ukraine conflict, right?
• 48:39
  So in theory, if we if we care about great power competition, this was again, much like the Ukraine war, one of the biggest blunders that that we could make, and I know the Israelis are seeking to like remake the Middle East, but I I think at the end of this, however it ends, at least the GCC countries, they're gonna be very skeptical, number one of our our ability to actually provide them with security.
• 49:03
  But number two, again, and this is catastrophic, I think, for the entire for our entire nation, the the security and stability of the dollar as the prime reserve currency holder, um, and and the petrodollar.
• 49:14
  So even if we say that we don't really need Middle Eastern oil because we're gonna drill baby drill here, our system is still built on this this money printing and a large part of that's reserve currency hold and the petrodollar.
• 49:26
  And so, like, again, if you wanted to destroy that, this was a great course of action for it.
• 49:31
  So I I'm I'm very concerned about all that.
• 49:33
  It is a little confusing as to why we would have done this given all of the second and third order effects, and I think I think you might be right that maybe they just weren't thinking about them.
• 49:45
  I mean, what did you hear any talk from people in the administration about you know, if we do this, there's gonna be second and third order effects, or was this all just supposed to be wrapped up within ninety six hours?
• 49:58
  So going into the 12 day.
• 50:00
  War that entire period.
• 50:01
  We had really robust discussions before Midnight Hammer, really robust discussions.
• 50:06
  Um heated discussions.
• 50:08
  And I thought they were healthy and they were productive, even though I didn't necessarily agree that we needed to do Midnight Hammer.
• 50:12
  I thought we could have restrained the 12-day war from happening.
• 50:15
  I I I felt like it was a process where like all courses of action were discussed.
• 50:21
  Um in this last iteration, I I didn't I didn't see that.
• 50:25
  And I know the White House will say, well, that's because we kicked you out of the room, and it was, you know, only for people with whatever whatever clearance.
• 50:31
  We're like anyways, um, but I still would have at least heard of the meetings.
• 50:36
  So like the deputies committee process, the NSC process, it just didn't happen.
• 50:41
  And I I think had they had a a bigger audience or at least brought in some some other voices as opposed to the Hawks, um all of this would have been discussed because I I don't think anything that we're saying here is uh you know, obviously not exquisite intelligence, and it I don't think it takes a genius to figure out.
• 50:59
  I agree.
• 51:00
  I you know what it takes a genius to figure out these days is why an American president or secretary of state doesn't ask himself or ask his uh uh associates his his minions.
• 51:16
  What is in this for the United States?
• 51:20
  And then for example, does it really matter to the United States if Israel exists or not?
• 51:27
  Is it like it's it's like Ukraine.
• 51:32
  You know, what in the world are we doing in Ukraine?
• 51:35
  And what's our interest there?
• 51:37
  I guess it's uh what do they call it?
• 51:39
  Adrenochrome and uh rest of that kind of stuff.
• 51:43
  I guess that's what it is.
• 51:45
  I mean, the simple it seems to me that that the simplest thing is for the president to sit with his advisors and say, why in the world do we want to spend blood and money on whether it's Ukraine or or or Israel or anybody else?
• 52:03
  You know, you could say we have our two greatest allies and they won't go away, Atlantic and Pacific.
• 52:10
  And uh it it has amazed me since since I went to work at the agency, and I and it still amazes me now.
• 52:18
  I don't know on I don't understand it.
• 52:20
  And they always say, oh, Shoyer, you don't understand the uh complicated nature of world affairs.
• 52:29
  And when I hear the word complication, all I can all I can hear is we're going, and we don't know what's gonna happen, but we're going.
• 52:39
  Well, and Joe, actually, because you you were one of the leading voices for the you know America First ideology within the administration.
• 52:49
  You and VP Vance and Tulsi Gabbert, the the the director of national intelligence were sort of the three most prominent America firsters, other than President Trump, uh in the administration.
• 53:03
  What what was the input level of your colleagues like the vice president or DNI Gabbart on the sort of run-up to this in this attack on Iran two weeks ago?
• 53:17
  What would they have sizable influence or were they sort of kind of ignored, pushed aside?
• 53:25
  I mean, the pictures that you that that were released publicly on the night of the first night of the war, where you had a small group all the way down in Mar-a-Lago, yeah, and then you had the rest of the the National Security Aper has up in the situation room.
• 53:39
  That honestly tells a pretty accurate tale.
• 53:41
  Um that was basically my my take too from the inside.
• 53:45
  So I don't even have to give you any any kind of inside baseball.
• 53:48
  When they published those pictures, I said, you know what?
• 53:50
  Picture's worth a thousand words.
• 53:52
  That's it right there.
• 53:53
  That's how this war was planned, unfortunately.
• 53:56
  Yeah, and it looked like, and I say this as a supporter of the vice presidents.
• 54:00
  It looked like the vice president was put at the kitty table.
• 54:02
  That's what it looked like to me.
• 54:04
  And it was very upsetting to me uh to see that um personally.
• 54:08
  So I can only imagine how you and Tulsi must have felt being on the inside watching that happen.
• 54:13
  I believe the president was was told that hey, this is only gonna last like I don't know, maybe two weeks, but we're gonna knock down their air defenses really quick, and we'll be dropping dumb bombs on them, and hey, we're it's fine.
• 54:24
  Again, without kind of getting that that more um contradictory, or like, hey, sir, this could go really bad, and then in which case, like here's what will happen.
• 54:34
  Um again, I I I just didn't see a process like that playing out.
• 54:38
  And uh speaking of Mark Levin, uh, you are Joe, I believe, set to go on tomorrow, uh Monday night with uh with uh uh Mark Levin.
• 54:47
  Is that still on?
• 54:48
  That's right, yeah.
• 54:49
  As far as I know, we're tomorrow night uh at eight.
• 54:51
  Me and me and Mark having a chat.
• 54:53
  For the whole hour?
• 54:55
  No.
• 54:56
  I believe so for the whole hour.
• 54:58
  Should be should be a good time.
• 55:03
  I and me that opportunity, Joe.
• 55:07
  I couldn't he got me.
• 55:09
  I couldn't turn it down.
• 55:10
  No, it's it's it's it'd be a lovely thing to do.
• 55:13
  It's gonna be great television.
• 55:14
  I I can tell you that much, regardless of you know what what goes on.
• 55:18
  It's uh I'm really looking forward to it.
• 55:20
  But I I hope you are prepared.
• 55:22
  He he is going to be frothing at the mouth, probably literally, uh Joe.
• 55:27
  So uh, you know.
• 55:30
  Just offer him a senative.
• 55:32
  Just offer him a yeah.
• 55:36
  Well thank you for listening today.
• 55:38
  And thank you for joining us on the mission.
• 55:41
  The national security hour is the tip of the spear and the epic battle to defend the United States of America.
• 55:47
  I'm your America always first host, Brendan Wycart.
• 55:53
  You can catch me right here every Wednesday night at 8 p.m.
• 55:56
  Eastern on the iHeart Radio Network.
• 55:59
  You can also follow me on Twitter X at We The Brandon.
• 56:03
  Be sure to purchase my books at Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores.
• 56:09
  And if you like this conversation, you can go to NatSec Talk, N-A-T-S E C T A L K on Rumble, saw follow and subscribe to my rumble show there, where you will find the unedited full hour and 35 minute interview with this guest, no holds barred, and you'll also find some other exclusive content that you won't hear on the radio show here.
• 56:39
  So give it a follow, give it a subscribe, check it out when you can.
• 56:43
  Until then, thank you for listening, and God bless America.