Latest / The Voyage Cast: Real Talk on Marriage, Mental Health, & Emotional Growth / WHEN LOVE BECOMES A BUSINESS: Building a Marriage That Can Handle Both | Interview with Madison the Winemaker & Co-Founder of Ve Oh Lay Acres

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WHEN LOVE BECOMES A BUSINESS: Building a Marriage That Can Handle Both | Interview with Madison the Winemaker & Co-Founder of Ve Oh Lay Acres · The Voyage Cast: Real Talk on Marriage, Mental Health, & Emotional Growth

0:10
SPEAKER_00: Hey, this is Eddie with the VoyageCast, and I am here with another great show and another special guest.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: We got Madison the winemaker.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: And Madison, I'm gonna go ahead and have you launch into who you are, what you're about, what you're about, and where you're at.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, why are you in British Columbia making wine?
0:28
SPEAKER_00: That that makes zero sense to me.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: Tell me about yourself.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: Hi, hello.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, thank you so much for having me on the show.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, why am I in British Columbia?
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, this is where I grew up.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, it is one of the best wine regions in Canada for growing grapes.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: Not necessarily the world, but definitely for Canada.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: Um and I get to live in the heart of the wine valley out here.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: So that's definitely why we chose this little uh little corner of the world to hide out in.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm a winemaker, I'm a wife, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a farm mom.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of a complex thing, isn't it?
1:06
SPEAKER_00: Being a wife, an entrepreneur, and you're an entrepreneur with Laurent, your husband, right?
1:12
SPEAKER_00: You guys started this business together.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: Remind me the name of the business.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh Viola Acres.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: Okay, there we go.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: So we we have this this wine company in British Columbia started by two young folks who have no idea what they're doing.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Is that what happened?
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Or what what'd you guys do to get there?
1:28
SPEAKER_01: I know that's pretty much exactly it.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Um I started, so I've kind of done like a variety of things in the wine industry.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was like working in the bar, restaurant scene, hospitality.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was working at liquor stores.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've been in the vineyard.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: So I kind of covered all different aspects.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: And then my husband basically grew up in a winery, so he's like super cool in that aspect.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: So he's been like fully immersed in the winery side.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: And then um the pandemic happened and we weren't able to travel anymore, and that put a big wrench into my plans.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then we kind of got a little uh a little creative one day, and we're like, let's just do it ourselves.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: And here we are.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: That's wild.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: So hey, before I I want to get into that, but I wanted to go back in time just a little bit to because I find this kind of hilarious how you guys met you and your husband.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us that story?
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we actually we met at his so his grandparents had a winery.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that was actually my first winery job.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, and he he didn't used to work there at the time, um, but he used to visit all the time because he just lived around the corner from it.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's where we had first met.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, he was in a different relationship.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: I was in a relationship.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: We spent a few years being friends there, and then we actually had to work a harvest together, and we were like fire and water.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: Like it did not or fire and ice, like we did not mesh together at all.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: We were we're like overflowing tanks, we're mixing things wrong.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: It's everything was an argument, like the simplest stuff.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: It's I can do it better.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: Do it this way.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, do it this way.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: We couldn't, at one point, we couldn't even be in the same room together.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: All the staff knew everyone knew.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: We were so childish about it.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: Like after work, everyone like hangs out, has a glass of wine, but it's like, nope, not if he's sitting there.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna sit with him.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: Like it's we're so dramatic about it.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: And then for some reason, we had to we were forced into we had to do something and be like amical about it and just put on like a happy face and just like don't argue, like just don't fight for just like 20 minutes.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: And I think we finally actually saw eye to eye, and we're like, Oh, you're actually not that unbearable.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: Okay, and then from there we started to become better friends, and it kind of all lined up and then started to date, and then we became business partners and first-time property owners.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh, just decided to just then go fullborn.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: So you met you meet this guy who you do not get along with in any way, shape, or form, and then you're like, you know what?
4:03
SPEAKER_00: Let's just get married, start a business, do life together, buy a farm.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Yep, let's raise 300 animals.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: Let's yeah, let's plant a vineyard, let's have an apple orchard.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: That is insane.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: That is absolutely insane.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: I I love that story, and it's a kind of a classic story you hear sometimes, you know, at least with some of my clients, but usually they don't start a vineyard in a business together.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, they come in fighting and they're like, we need to work this out.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: You're like, no, we'll just start a business.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Let's do let's do all of our first in such a short period of time, and then we'll know if we're destined to be together forever.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: Now nothing can tell not nothing, nothing matters what happens anymore because we've been through so much in such a short period of time.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: Now we're ready for anything.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: So so that's curious to me.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: How is it that you guys did that?
4:57
SPEAKER_00: Like to I I'm a business owner and it's very difficult.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, my wife currently works for me.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: My business partner I've known for like 20 years, he's like my other wife.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it gets really tense and difficult, and there's disagreements and frustrations.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, how is it that you are married to your business partner or to you know lifelong partner?
5:18
SPEAKER_00: Like, how is it that you are able to do this and not kill each other?
5:24
SPEAKER_01: It's um there's moments, there's times.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, patience, patience, uh remembering what the criminal code of Canada is.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: Um it's not that bad.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it was about realizing that we're on the same team.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: Um yes, there's gonna be stress and disagreements and like a lot of pressure, um, but we really try to stay aligned on where we're going, like what the end goal is, and also respecting each other's roles.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: So that's definitely helped play into it.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, and honestly, I think just accepting that I don't want to say that we fight, I would say we do we argue, we argue all the time, but but it it makes us be better people, though.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's and I think it's just a matter of kind of accepting that you are going to argue, um, because we both have two different approaches to to sometimes the same solution.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: Um both of them can be right as well, right?
6:22
SPEAKER_01: It's and then it goes kind of back to that respecting each other's roles, right?
6:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, we can't both lead the same thing.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: So we have to we we have to do the the the division, right?
6:33
SPEAKER_01: The divide and conquer in order to then get to the end goal.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
6:37
SPEAKER_00: I I always say that like only one person can drive the car at a time.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, like somebody has to be a passenger whether you like it or not.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: So I mean we have to concede to that person's role, and that's actually really hard to do, as you know, firsthand.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's not that's not a trivial feat, you know, mind you, that that you're able to say, hey, you have a role, I have a role, let's respect that.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: We can bicker about how things play out, but that is your that's your respective job in this relationship, but also in this business.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: Is that fair?
7:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, nope, that's very fair.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a really hard thing to achieve.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: Good job.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: You should be proud of that.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, it's a bit tough.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: It's for sure.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: It's it's trying to um like starting a business with your partner.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: It's you have to be willing to grow, not only in your relationship, but also in your business.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: And you're gonna have such I actually I always say my as a business partner, very frustrating.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: As a husband, though, the best person in the entire world.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: Like it's you we hold two different relationships.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: It's they're not, it's not my husband at work, it's he's my business partner, and it's you know, and then it's outside of work, he's my husband.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: It's when we're off shift, we're husband and wife.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: But when it's business hours, we're partners.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: It's we're business partners, and that's it.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's a really uh what would it be fine line to toe.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's tricky.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: That's really tricky.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: Whoever's listening to this in the same position, take note.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: That's a hard thing to do and a good goal to aim at.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: So again, good job.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: You're you know, give give Lauren a hug for me and tell him I'm proud of him for working with you and being a great husband.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: Um so uh you guys get together, you you're your enemies, then your friends, you're together, you have this business.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Um tell me a little bit more about this business, this wine company.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: I am not a wine guy, so I don't know a lot about it.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: I know a little bit about it, but I don't know a lot about it.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: So tell me about it.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we started as actually a honey winery uh producing mead.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: So we um have 60 beehives on the property.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: Um we harvest our honey once a year.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, super cool.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: Because that's the fun part, whereas wine is farming, really, at the end of the day.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: Um there's definitely this like certain image to it.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: You get all dressed up and like your Sunday best and you go out with the girls, but it is actually farming at the end of the day.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we we work with a lot of other farmers for different foods that we can't grow.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we started with the honey wine, fermenting it, adding different fruits, herbs, uh flowers, even we did a hibiscus honey wine.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then that's what we started with while we were waiting for our vineyard um to grow because it takes about three to four years for a vineyard to come in where you have like a decent crop to actually make wine.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: So we did our first harvest last year.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: So now we kind of do a little bit of everything.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: We have honey wine, we have grape wine.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we actually just introduced a non-alcoholic wine last year as well, too.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's we just like to ferment things and turn it into alcohol and then sometimes remove that alcohol.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: And if I if I understand correctly, mead is one of the oldest known alcohols, correct?
9:50
SPEAKER_01: It is, it's actually older than grape wine.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't think any of the other wineries will admit that.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it is it is it's the oldest beverage, fermented beverage for sure.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: So do you guys dress up like like I don't know, Vikings or cavemen when you make this stuff?
10:04
SPEAKER_01: No, we didn't, we didn't play into that theme on it.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: Um there's like at one point there's like more or a new metery was opening up every day in the US.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: It was so popular.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, Game of Thrones made it so popular, right?
10:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's we we thought about going that route, but so many meteries are doing that.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: And mead or even fruit wine has this connotation that it's not high quality, and that's actually not the case.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we kind of went with more of a traditional winery route to then show that honey wine or fruit wine does have a place in a regular wine lineup.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: Like when anyone says wine, everyone thinks grapes, but it's just it's just fermented fruit, so it's it can be just as high quality.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: Um we win competitions all the time with it.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: We place gold, double gold, we've done international competitions.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Good job.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: What what's the one that uh won?
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, what's what's your gold?
11:02
SPEAKER_00: What's your big winner?
11:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, we had Summer Hito took gold, which um it's kind of like a mojito, um, but in a wine form.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: So that one was really delicious.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: That's where you put mint, lime.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: We actually made that one sparkling as well, too.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, we had a berry blend, so like cherry, blackberry, plum, and blueberry.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: And then we also aged that in barrel, uh, very similar to wine.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, that one, that one went actually went very far.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: That one took gold, double gold, and it also placed internationally as well.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: Um our blueberry took gold.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: What else was there?
11:36
SPEAKER_01: Um then we've had a couple, a couple of our grape wines as well have placed gold.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we have like a white blend.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we at least have two or three wines a year that end up placing, which is really nice.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: Both local, national, and international.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: How do you guys do that?
11:51
SPEAKER_00: How do you set yourselves apart like that?
11:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, again, husband and wife team, you guys.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, does I think if I remember correctly in our previous conversation, it's been a while.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Did Laurent come from the wine business, right?
12:04
SPEAKER_00: You said his grandparents had a had a winery.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: So his grandparents had a winery.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: Did he learn it from them?
12:10
SPEAKER_01: He definitely did.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: So um I always explained um, I'm like book smart, where I like I went to UC Davis, did my winemaking certificate, um, I did my wine spirit education trust, made my all the way up all the way up to the diploma.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm still in school.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm like a perpetual wine student, so I'm constantly I'm enrolled in some kind of course.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Right now I'm doing my court of master somales.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: Um so Laurent actually grew up in it.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: So he's like the experience-based where he's like 10 years old driving his dirt bike through the vineyard rows, he's on the bottling line, helping at 12, like all of these things.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: So he saw all of that.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: So then kind of we have like this unique um approach, I would say, together, as it kind of combines experience and book smart together.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, winemaking seems like it's intimidating.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, but on it, like if you can like ferment sauerkrow, you can make wine.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: The issue is when something goes wrong.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: So it's a lot of trial and error in that.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then and sometimes we've we've even had some tanks go off on us, and it's it's hard to try and save it after.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, fermentation's a living thing, and it's not you like kind of have a recipe, but your fruit's never the same every year.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeast is it's living, so it always reacts differently.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: It's a couple degrees difference can cause um the whole tank to go in a different direction.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, it depends like the pectin in the fruit.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: It's there's so many things.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, like we worked with strawberry one time.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: I will probably never work with strawberry again.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: It was so difficult.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, so like when you start a fermentation, you usually have three or four days before it gets up to like a high temperature, and then you want to control the temperature to preserve those flavors.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: Strawberry within 12 hours shot up to 27 degrees.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: It was going, it it was it was so hard to filter it out.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: It was really high in pectin.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: So it's always a learning experience for sure.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: But it's kind of you just kind of gotta just keep going.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: You just keep lots of notes and you document and a lot of bench trials and just try again next year.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: Who who does all that?
14:15
SPEAKER_00: Like who manages the the flavor profiles, the bench trials, like the the experimentation of like a mojito-based kind of thing?
14:24
SPEAKER_00: Like who comes up with these inventions?
14:26
SPEAKER_00: Who does all this stuff?
14:27
SPEAKER_00: How does that work?
14:28
SPEAKER_01: I would say both of us are pretty good at coming up with different flavor profiles for sure.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, like the mojito one, uh, I actually had written in a notebook like probably six years ago.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, I had this idea, like, this would be so cool to do like a mojito style wine.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: And then we actually did it, which was really cool.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, we kind of take inspiration from anywhere, just like even certain cocktails, just like the flavor combos.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: We're like, wow, that's really cool.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: Could we mimic that in a wine by using different fruits and stuff?
14:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's the fun thing with honey wine, because your fruits, your herbs, your flowers, you can use vegetables.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Like it's there's no limit to what kind of flavor profile you can put in there.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: Um then when it comes to the technical stuff, um, I'm definitely like the lab girl.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: So I use all the equipment to like tell me what the SO2 is and the acidity, and then Laurent would be the cellar master.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: Um so I tell him.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: What's a cellar master?
15:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh so I tell him what to add to the tanks in terms of like an acid adjustment or adding tannins or enzymes.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: So he adds, he gets he crushes all the juice, gets the juice in tank, does all the additions.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, he's the temperature guy, so he's monitoring the tanks to making sure that they're staying within a certain degree that we want.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, usually I'll decide if I want to do like a cooler ferment or a hotter ferment, and then he's the guy that executes it and makes sure that we get there.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: He's the filtering guy, he's the bottling guy.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Does it all?
15:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it does it all.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: You you guys sound like you're preparing to have children because there's so much care that goes into all of this stuff and so much nurturing that goes into this.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: I feel like you guys are gonna be ready to have children right away.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: It's a head once once this baby, once this big wine baby, uh, is a little more self-sustainable than it absolutely is on the it's on the next uh to-do list for sure.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's fantastic.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: I bet his family would love to see kind of the generational wine uh kind of evolution continue, yeah?
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's actually the last one.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: So his wine history dates back to 1866 over in Europe.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: And um they started, it was an aperitif called beer, um, not spelt like beer, it's B-Y-R-R-H.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: And it was huge back in the late 1800s, early 1900s, which is crazy to think about.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, and they had this big winery, it was actually designed.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: The train track system was designed by Ustaf, Gustav Eiffel before he went on to do the tower.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: And um, what's what's the girl?
17:06
SPEAKER_01: Um the Statue of Life.
17:08
SPEAKER_02: New York there.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: The Statue of Liberty, yeah.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, so super weird, cool things like that.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, they actually hold the Guinness World Record for the largest wine bat.
17:18
SPEAKER_02: What?
17:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: So in the 70s, um, and so 1970s, um, they ended up selling off the family winery um to a big con conglomerate.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's no longer held in the family anymore.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: Then that's what made his grandparents come over uh to Canada, and then they started a winery.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: And then he's actually the last son.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: So we are literally the last generation trying to like revive this dynasty.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: And his um his family did wine, spirits, cognac, rum, like they did everything.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: So my gosh.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: Maybe we go into spirits one day, but we're just trying to just trying to make a name for ourselves in wine right now.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, if you're winning all these awards, it sounds like you're making quite a name for yourself, yeah.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: We're definitely, definitely on a good start for sure.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: It's it's a long, we know it's a long journey, um, but that's okay.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: We are in our fourth year, um, being open to the public, anyways.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: And uh no, yeah, there's it's just getting better and better every year.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: Our growth is exceptional.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, we're getting somewhere for sure.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: So I I know we talked in our last conversation, and I can't remember the details on it, but can you remind me the deal with Canada versus the US?
18:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm in the US.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: Can I buy your products?
18:28
SPEAKER_01: Or no, you would have to visit us.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: It's very hard shipping across the border.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, we're looking at getting our non-alcoholic wine into the States, though.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's a little bit easier.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: It's so once you get the alcohol, we kind of go like into weird like prohibition, archaic laws again.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: It's like they want you to have it, but like not really.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but um, you can come visit us at the winery for sure, though.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, we actually have um R V spots, so we don't charge for the RV spots either.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: So you can come camping for the weekend, come hang out.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, we have a kitchen at the winery as well.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's very tell me about the kitchen.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, so we kind of have made ourselves into a little niche with doing tacos.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we rotate through different chefs every year uh just to give just just something different, you know?
19:16
SPEAKER_01: Um so we always have a rotating menu of some kind that's going on.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: We try and do like that whole farm to table vibe.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: Um it's definitely small.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: We're maybe nine to ten menu items, um, but it's more like a tapas style, you know.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: You can get three or four different menu items, uh, you can do wine flights, so you get four different wines that come on a paddle.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: We kind of want it to combine winery and brewery.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: So, like I love the casual, friendly seating of a brewery where you get like a flight of beer and you have some snacks and you're hanging out with your friends, whereas wine tasting can be so serious, and it definitely has a place for it.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes we also just need to just just hang out and relax and just catch up with friends or something.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: So we wanted to combine like a nice casual setting, but still have good wine, good food, uh, beautiful views.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: We're out in the middle of farmland, so we look at um actually this old volcano in summerland um that's now gone dormant called Giant's Head.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh so that's pretty cool.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we have like a little bit of the lake view as well, too.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: So it's just about like getting back out into farm and into nature.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: I love that so much.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: That sounds incredible.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's definitely I wish it was closer so I could eat more easily drive, but I'm in Colorado.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's it's not a simple drive.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: No, definitely not.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that sounds amazing.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, so you you guys have this family, uh is is the whole like the vibe of the whole thing is all like family.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: It's all kind of community, it's all friend-based in a in a real sense.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, instead of like you're competing at the level of the uppity wines, but you're not trying to be the uppity company, let's say.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: No, exactly.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like it's our yeah, that would be actually a great way to explain it.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have, yeah, honestly, we've even hosted kids' birthday parties, which I know sounds weird, but they like run around in the field.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: We also have animals too, right?
21:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you get a whole farm.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they have the farm, so they do the farm things and the parents drink.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: It's perfect.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have um a disc golf field, we have a beach volleyball court.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh we still we have 11 acres in total.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, and we've really tried to maximize it.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: So there's built on the driveway, chickens, you know.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, bring people back to the barbers.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: You guys get these pads for RVs?
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Are you gonna start building out little like mini cabins so people can just like rent those from you?
21:41
SPEAKER_01: We thought about that, but the RVs have actually like we we already May's already booked up.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: We're getting bookings into June.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: It's the RV has worked so well.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: So I don't think we're going to actually do it yet.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, because we the licensing, the way it works, we have to choose either between like uh yeah, like a glamping.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Set up like that, the dirts or the RVs, and the RVs are nice, and we meet so many fun people.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: It's like so many people from Europe actually like import their own RV and come over, which is crazy.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, we get the Kiwis, we get the Aussies, yeah.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: We're very close to the US border, so we have a lot of people coming up from the US, a lot of people doing across Canada trips.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: So it's just neat how many different people that we get to meet and then share this whole experience with.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: Madison, that's amazing.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: I it's it's becoming this destination spot.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: It's more than just a winery.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes, very much so.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: And I think that there's been this big shift in the drinking culture where it doesn't matter if you have a good product anymore.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: You need there's people are looking for more.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: It's the experience.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: What can they do?
22:49
SPEAKER_01: How do they feel when they're there?
22:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, so now we kind of have this whole like agritourism angle going on.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: So you guys are on the kind of the wave of that right now, and you're also in the non-alcoholic stuff too.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about that.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: I know that's huge right now.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: I've seen it everywhere.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: Massive.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: We had no idea if it was something that was just going to be a trend or if it was here to stay.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it has blown up, which has been fantastic.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: Um we've actually gone across Canada with our non-alcoholic.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we're also in Walmart, Canada.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, maybe one day we get into the US, we'll have to get some people.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: I get a Walmart 10 minutes for me right here.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh, perfect.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're working on that.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: We're just going for her FDA.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, the non-alcoholic space though has been really neat because it's not about abstinence, it's it's about having options.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, and the social, as much as like we're trying not to be like privy to like social demand, it is still something that very much exists.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: Like a glass of sparkling water in a wine glass is not the same.
23:55
SPEAKER_02: Right.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: Right?
23:56
SPEAKER_01: So it's like you for people that aren't drinking for whatever reason, maybe reunite, it could be personal choices, medication, pregnancy, whatever, right?
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Whatever, just taking a break, right?
24:05
SPEAKER_01: Like it's that's okay.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, to be socially included in things where like your glass of wine looks like a glass of wine with everyone else is definitely um, I guess it's like a placebo effect, but it's very important though.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then it's just like like sometimes pacing yourself, you know.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: Like we did, we did like this beautiful art exhibit, we sponsored it, and it's like it's nice to have a glass of wine and then have a glass of non-alcoholic wine, and then maybe another glass of wine, right?
24:33
SPEAKER_01: Like you're kind of pacing yourself.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, so it's been really cool.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: It's not just like nope, we can't drink, like no drinking, right?
24:42
SPEAKER_01: It's actually, yeah, it's more of a social concept, I would say, or social demand.
24:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Um and we also, so we actually ferment our wine and then remove the alcohol.
24:53
SPEAKER_01: So you are still getting the benefits of a fermented beverage, right?
24:57
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: It's not just like a concoction of juices, which I think a lot of people mistake wine, like non-alcoholic wine for, uh, which is fine.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's there's been some terrible examples on grocery store shelves for the last 40 years, but the advancements in the technology and the techniques that are going on have gone so far.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: So you actually can get the benefits of because wine is good for you in moderation.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: So now by removing the alcohol, we're still getting that, we're still getting the anthocinins, you know, you're still getting the fermentation benefits.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the things that I found that I really liked about this kind of non-alcoholic movement is if you think about kind of pre-this movement, I guess, the only thing you really had was like O'Dools or sparkling water or something like that.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: And I was, you know, kind of gross back then.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: But now sparkling water is really popular.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: I love sparkling water.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: I just like I love the bubbles.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I love the non non-alcoholic movement mainly because I feel like it's allowing people the freedom to just be creative with flavor.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh instead of the old stock, like this is the soda fountain, uh, these are the juices that we have.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: Like that's it.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, even right now, like I'm drinking a Celsius.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I like about Celsius is that they're coming up with tons of new flavors all the time.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: And it's like an adventure.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like the different flavors and stuff that you can do.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that that's why I like what you were saying earlier about kind of the you won all these different awards based on different kinds of flavors and different types of things.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, how fun is that that you just kind of invent new things, come up with new ideas, make new flavors.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: That's so exciting, and it kind of gets rid of the humdrum of the old model of just this is this is what's available.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's about having options, options, choices, and still being able to engage just as much as everyone else that is drinking.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's nice.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: And it's not all over sugar either.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's that's huge too, right?
26:55
SPEAKER_00: Because like sodas, I mean, if you were to take the amount of sugar out of the soda and just put it on a table, like it's gross how much soda you drink in the soda.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: It's so bad for you.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I I'm curious about that too, because like like my wife and I are creative, but we're creative differently.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, and sometimes that's complimentary.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes my wife looks at me and tells me to leave her alone while she's doing her creative things.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, do you guys experience some of that as you're creating things?
27:21
SPEAKER_01: We do, yes.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, my husband's an extremist, he is arguably insane.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: It's he goes so big, so fast, so quick.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: It's it's like, whoa, whoa, okay, yes.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: Bring it back.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we can, I get it.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Why don't we take our first steps?
27:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's he's like already on the tenth step by the time when we're like thinking of something.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, we do really good brainstorming sessions together though.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: It's um, yeah, it's I think because he's so extreme one way, and then I'm more calmer, I would say, compared to him.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: So it gives us a really good mix.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then just like our personal taste, right?
28:02
SPEAKER_01: What we like.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, he's he's traveled to Europe for most of his life, whereas I've done more like New Zealand, US, Australia, like the southern hemisphere.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: So like it's a different mix of flavors that we are familiar with or that we've tried and know, right?
28:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, he's very French and Spanish, so that kind of plays into things as well, too.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: So it gives us a good mix, but yeah, we get some good brainstorming going on.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes it's yeah, it's like, you know what?
28:29
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for your input.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm just gonna do this though.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: And I'll just I'll just tell you about it after, okay?
28:36
SPEAKER_00: And then and then you win gold and you're like, see, thanks for your input.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but then sometimes it's the opposite way too.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: It's um actually our first wine to win gold um was actually his uh his combination, and he's like, We're gonna do it this way, and blah, blah, blah.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, we should maybe add this.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Nope.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, yeah.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: And then it's like, cool, boom, gold.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: And what what's that like?
28:57
SPEAKER_00: Like when you guys kind of have that wrestling match, and then you really see those rewards of the pushback.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, like, does that make you want to trust each other a little bit more?
29:05
SPEAKER_01: I would think so.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: It's uh Laurent's always been very good at being my cheerleader, sometimes almost too good.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter what idea I come to him.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: He's like, Yes, I know you can do it.
29:17
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
29:17
SPEAKER_01: Here's the credit card, buy everything you need.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, whoa, that's maybe just does it sound like a good idea?
29:23
SPEAKER_01: He's like, anything you say is I'm like, okay.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: There's there's nothing I can't do in his eyes, and I do love that.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes we have to be a little practical with it, though, and actually thoroughly think it through.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's definitely things that we've done that have not worked out.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's yeah, it's just trial and error.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: But no, I think it definitely does add a level of trust for sure.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: For the ladies listening to this podcast episode, not all men are like Laurent.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: They're not so incredibly supportive at every turn, cheerleading any idea.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, absolutely anything.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's he's crazy in that aspect.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: That's so amazing, man, that you guys have such a I don't know, what would be like a synergy with each other, and you guys really mesh so well.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: You're kind of his anchor as he wants to sail, you know, deep into the waters.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh, let's let's pull back just just a touch.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, just a touch.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: And then it goes both ways, right?
30:25
SPEAKER_01: It's he's so good at enabling my creative side or like my like kind of pushing who I was three or four years ago compared to now is I don't even know if I would recognize her, right?
30:37
SPEAKER_01: And I am only able to keep growing because he is not he's not allowing me to grow, but he's he's he's fostering that, right?
30:46
SPEAKER_01: Like he's like it's he's giving me the pathway to do it, so it's nice.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: Can you describe yourself like three, four years ago or five years ago, like what kind of kind of lady you were?
31:01
SPEAKER_01: Um a little more chaotic.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's more of like a controlled chaos now.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: Um clarity always comes from the after, not the before.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: So thinking what you know and then actually doing it, you're like, wow, turns out I know nothing.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: Neat.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, that's funny.
31:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, yeah, I would say a little bit more chaotic.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: Um definitely not as good as necessarily handling stress or roadblocks.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: Um I guess dramatic would be good for that.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's never the end of the road.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: It's just merely something that you you just have to figure out how to get over it or around it or through it or something, you know?
31:46
SPEAKER_01: It's um and that's the same attitude.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, say that again.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, uh like to whatever, like that's not the end of the road.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it's it it is that how it is with your marriage too?
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, is this the attitude you guys have with your marriage?
32:02
SPEAKER_00: Like when things are hard, it's like, yeah, this is not the end of the road.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say so.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: It's there's no like it doesn't matter what like the business is not us as much as it is us.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: It's we still have the obviously like our relationship outside of it.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, but but no, I think we definitely take that approach in our marriage as well, too.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: It's that it doesn't, it doesn't matter what happens, it's it's we we still got so many more years ahead of us.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: Like this is a forever thing.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: It's we were serious about that.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: And you know, to to build on that just as a kind of an aside, is that when couples decide that this is a forever thing, it actually enhances their ability to form secure attachment bonds.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: So they'll feel long term, they'll feel less distress, they'll feel less anxiety, less internal kind of relational chaos, because they know at the end of the day, for the remaining of my days, you've got me and I've got you.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's you have to, it's having that foundation.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: And I think that foundation helps us in the business as well, too.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: Because like we're not we're not worried to come to one of each other if we've messed up on something or or my my label, I I miss I misprinted 2,000 labels, right?
33:13
SPEAKER_01: Like it's you know, it's just what's the issue?
33:15
SPEAKER_01: It's just money that's going out the door, right?
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, what would you do?
33:18
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we'll sell some more wine, we'll get some more labels.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: Like it's not there, it's it's not like we're trying to make mistakes, you know?
33:25
SPEAKER_01: It's or something breaks, or like a bag of fertilizer falls over.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't matter what it is, it's we're trying, and that's all that matters.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, having that boundary.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Exactly, right?
33:39
SPEAKER_01: Alignment, trust, communication.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: That's all you need.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: And and a lot of couples, when they experience hardships and they experience those roadblocks in their life, they do experience it as this is kind of the end of the world.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's the biggest worst thing of their life.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you mentioned being kind of dramatic, maybe historically.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: It's like that's kind of the uh like everything's so big when really it's just a moment.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: It's just a bump in the road.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: These things are and and truly they're all just so normal.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they uh that's another thing too.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: It's um someone actually once told us it's not a matter of if you get sued, but when.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, we have we haven't been sued, um, but we've had had to go through the courts, we've had to take legal action on like contractors and stuff.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's no, it's truly you go, everyone goes through such similar things, and every year we're like, hey, maybe this is the year we're not in the court system, and it never works out that way.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: But it's just learning, right?
34:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, whatever, that's the whole point of having lawyers, right?
34:41
SPEAKER_01: It's like we have like four or five lawyers at any given time a business lawyer, a contract lawyer, this, that, right?
34:47
SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's just the way it goes, and then new opportunities come up.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's right, like now, now we're going into exporting, that's a whole other ball game.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh, with the non-alcoholic, we had to do um through like the Canada Food Inspection Agency.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: So that's a whole other ballgame of regulations.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: Like it never stops, but because we've been navigating so many regulatory bodies before, now we know.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: And now it's not scary if the CRA calls us or CFIA or something, you know?
35:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: It's just it's just the way it is.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: So that that's kind of an interesting parallel to to kind of marriage and business and everything as it as it goes, anyways.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: Once you go through enough hard things, eventually the hard things when they come again, they're just kind of like an old hat.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, I I know what that is.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: We did that one time before, cool.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we got an audit coming up, no problem.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: Did that before, right?
35:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: Do you what are the areas do you think for those that are listening that are couples in a relationship?
35:45
SPEAKER_00: What are the areas that uh sorry, couples in a relationship, those that are couples in a business is what I meant.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, what are the areas that are the biggest tripping points for the two of you, do you think?
35:57
SPEAKER_00: For you and Laurent?
36:00
SPEAKER_01: Thinking we're both right.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's a problem.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely thinking that we're both right on something.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm naturally better at arguing.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'd say he sometimes that trips him up.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: Um and it's like, no, it has nothing to do with the argument right now.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: This is just not a good idea, okay?
36:22
SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't matter how I'm presenting it.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: Um that's a good one, though.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: I I actually see that clinically a lot.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: And I have to I have to sit there in front of people and say, look, I'm not the arbiter of truth.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't possibly know who is the most right.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: You know, and like you believe it and you've got a good argument, you believe it, you've got a valid argument.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, what am I supposed to do with that?
36:46
SPEAKER_01: Exactly right.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's just making peace on something, you know.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: It's um, it's I guess learning how to manage it better, maybe in that sense.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, sometimes growth is scary.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: Deciding what way to grow.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, like where do we take the business?
37:05
SPEAKER_01: Where do we do we do we do a$20,000 investment on new equipment?
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, what if it doesn't pan out?
37:11
SPEAKER_01: What if we don't use that?
37:12
SPEAKER_01: What if it turns out we don't need that equipment, right?
37:14
SPEAKER_01: Which I know that sounds really silly, uh, but like wine equipment is so specific to certain things.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: So, like, like we wanted to get into sparkling wine, uh, which means we have to get all this other equipment and we didn't do it, which is probably a good thing, because I don't know if we're gonna do a sparkling anymore.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so sometimes making those big calls can be scary for sure.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, like how, what way?
37:39
SPEAKER_01: And because we we are we we're young, we're new, it's we do have a lot of guidance um and a lot of outside people helping us, which is nice.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: Okay, but sometimes you also can't listen to them at the same time.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: Um that's definitely one thing I've noticed.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, people are like, use these programs, use this, use that.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: I've been using them for 30 years.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I love that it's working out great for them, but sometimes they're like programs and softwares are constantly evolving, right?
38:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: So it's like when was the last time you were looking at new programs, right?
38:10
SPEAKER_01: It's uh like I was using QuickBooks because everyone says QuickBooks, but now I use a different actually accounting software that is incredible for me.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: It's so easy, it's user-friendly, it's exactly what I need.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: Whereas QuickBooks was actually overwhelming for me, right?
38:23
SPEAKER_01: Despite it being the best and everyone uses it.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of hard gauging.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: It's even some people swear by newspaper advertisements, some people say billboards.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: Like it's you still kind of have to do everything yourself and then kind of trial and error it and see, did that work?
38:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay, no, we're gonna pivot.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: All right, it's does that work?
38:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we will sign a year contract for that.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: So, one of the things I find interesting in what you're saying is, and and maybe this doesn't exactly apply to business, but I think in your case it would, and I think for viewers that have similar situations to you, um when a couple um tries something, I find it interesting and very common that one partner finds any opportunity, any angle, any way to blame the other when the thing that they both agreed on doesn't work out well.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: Um do you guys find those issues sometimes where you you want to blame the other person for something not panning out right?
39:21
SPEAKER_01: We've definitely become much better at that.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: Um I a few years ago, absolutely, we would have for sure been that same way.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's you it comes back to that team where it's we're not we're not fighting each other.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: It's we're on the same team, and we have to come back to that, that it's it's us versus whatever the problem is.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, too bad that didn't work out, but it's it's not actually anyone's fault.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: And that's also the thing, too, is the accountability.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, it's if if I'm like, yes, we should do this and you agree with me, then I'm sorry, we're in this exact same boat together.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: It's not one of us is just out in the canoe by ourselves, you know?
39:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: It's it's definitely it becomes a learning experience for sure, though.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: And it kind of falls into that whole growth.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, and it's just yeah, it's just not about fighting your partner.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: Like it's yeah, yeah, yeah.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: But no, we were definitely like that before.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: Do you find that because you guys are Canadian that you just apologize a lot?
40:17
SPEAKER_01: No, we're too stubborn.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: We're always right.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: And we're very stubborn.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: So no, we will die on the hill.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: It's no, even even if I'm like if I've been super stubborn about something, I don't know what an example would be.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: And if it doesn't even if it's like doesn't work out the exact way I want it to, I'm like, nope, it's fine, it's perfect, it's okay.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: I will live with it.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: That's in the background.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh god, fix it.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: So so as I'm listening you kind of talk a little bit about your how your kind of business relationship, your marriage relationship, I'm noticing a lot of very functional themes that you guys have either stumbled upon or did you learn some of these techniques and how to relate in a healthy way?
40:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, did you learn them from family of your childhood?
41:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, where did that come from?
41:04
SPEAKER_01: Um I don't I don't know actually.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I guess my parents have always worked together.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, they run a business together.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: Um so I've always seen them run together, um, have like they spend all their time together in this and that, seen their lash-outs, right?
41:22
SPEAKER_01: Like they also are very dominant in their respective fields.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, Laurent's grandparents had the winery together and were together 24-7 doing everything, but again, had respective roles.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, so maybe just from like a kind of like a nap, like a sub like we don't know that we're being like subconsciously witnessing it, but we are.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: And then outside of that, it's just been from doing it and then being like, okay, that's not the way to do it.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: So what is the right way?
41:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, not being afraid to do something multiple times in order to figure it out.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: And also at the end of the day, we want this dream, we want this winery, and we also want to be together.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: So it's like where how do we make that work?
42:05
SPEAKER_01: We have to find that common ground.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: And it seems like you did find some really interesting common ground in the way that you guys are able to maybe first and foremost, kind of what we already said, have have the forethought that we're just gonna be in this forever.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, and that that naturally filled, uh, sorry, builds a foundation of a healthy attachment, or at least helps lean you further into that.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: But it sounds like you guys also came from maybe relatively healthy families.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say so.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: And they're intact, they're all married.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep, yeah, they are.
42:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh Laurent's parents aren't.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, so he's seen that side, but he was actually raised by his grandparents, which was a beautiful, beautiful relationship.
42:49
SPEAKER_01: Were they married?
42:50
SPEAKER_01: So he he they are married, yeah.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: So he he has he has seen, I guess, good and bad, and he definitely doesn't want the bad.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: So I think I've been fortunate enough that, yeah, both my parents are still married, uh, still work together, all of that stuff.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: So it's yeah, very, very healthy um atmospheres.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: Actually, my brother just got married um last Sunday.
43:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, congratulations to you, brother.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: They have a good, good marriage as well, too.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, my youngest brother is actually expecting his second kid.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: So, no, I would say definitely it's very healthy relationships for sure.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: And then that kind of has helped form ours.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you guys have a real like relational grit where you're willing to just stick through it, figure it out.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: There's no u-turns here, there's no going back.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: That if we might not just or agree on a lot of things, but that is the one thing that we do agree on is that this is it, and we have to keep more.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: No U-turns.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no U-turns.
43:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: It's all or nothing.
43:45
SPEAKER_00: You gotta make it or make it, right?
43:47
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's it.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: I love that so much, Rosen.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: That's unusual in the culture today, though.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I you know, I've been doing I've been in mental health for like what, roughly 20 ish years, something like that, and I've been doing private practice.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Working with a lot of couples for around 15 years, uh, somewhere in that arena.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you, like, this is not a common experience anymore.
44:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, you could throw a rock in a crowd and hit like nine people that are all divorced and come from difficult families, let's say, uh at minimum.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: And it's really sad because they end up coming into my office and I'm working with them and trying to get them really to where you're at in a lot of ways.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh so you know, I would actually say having a good relationship is actually isolating for those exact reasons.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: It's sometimes tough being among other couples for those exact reasons because they're they're not on the same page.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: Um maybe there is a U-turn in their future, and it's um it's just something that I just I couldn't fathom spending so much time with someone um like on our own time on the weekends in the business and stuff, and just not like I just I wouldn't want to be around that energy if I didn't enjoy my time.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: Even in the bad times, it's still enjoyable because it is still with my partner.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: Like there would be no other like if I'm down, if I'm down in the trenches, I want him with me, you know?
45:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: So it's like at least we always have that.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, it is it is isolating sometimes having a good strong relationship that has lots of communication built in because yeah, not a lot of people are like that, which is unfortunate.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: It it's very hard these days to find that.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I don't know what the stats are like in Canada regarding marriage, but I mean in the US it's I mean it's roughly 50%, you know, divorce rates.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: And then I would say, I mean, and I'm ballparking, I'm sort of just my observation, let's say I I think it's probably of those that are still remaining married, they're they're pretty miserable.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, some of them and then there's a percentage, a smaller percentage that are actually pretty happy and and really glad that things have worked out this way.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: Um and then for those that have been divorced, their incidence of divorce increases with every uh continued relationship that they're in.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh interesting.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you go from what I and I'm I get I'm roughly ballparking this.
46:09
SPEAKER_00: I think it's roughly around 50%, and then you you escalate to about 70% for the next marriage in divorce.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: And part of the idea or the premise is that you're really just bringing the dysfunction from one situation to the next.
46:21
SPEAKER_00: It's not really resolved.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, um and I'm I'm sympathetic.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sympathetic because a lot of these folks just have no idea how to do it.
46:30
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I asked, like, where did you learn this?
46:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, because you and Laurent are are kind of an exception to the rule.
46:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I I'm considering like writing a book on like the on like what marriage is, like just what it is.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: Because when I talk to people, a lot and I and and it's not to be condescending, it's just people just have no idea.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no clue, like what is it for?
46:53
SPEAKER_00: How does it work?
46:54
SPEAKER_00: What is this thing, like this foreign object in my hand?
46:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do I do with this person next to me?
46:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, and and the expectations are confusing, the understandings are confusing.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: And so there's a lot of like kind of core education that I have to work with people on and how to just bring them up to speed, like this is what marriage is, this is how it works.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no, it's I I believe that it's watching our friends navigate um new relationships, dating, uh yeah, marriage.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: Some of them, some of them are going through a divorce as we speak.
47:25
SPEAKER_01: It's um it's tough out there for sure.
47:29
SPEAKER_01: It it it makes me and Lorraine hold ourselves much closer at the end of the day because we're like, oh my god, it's scary out there.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, thank you for loving me.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, yeah.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: Um I think we're also very um we're very expressive.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: Very, very expressive.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that adds into it.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: Um we like we we go on dates all the time.
47:51
SPEAKER_01: Even and like it's funny because like we're like 24-7 with each other, like it's all the time, constantly.
47:57
SPEAKER_01: Um like the longest we probably spend apart is like maybe four or five hours, which sometimes makes the relationship even more difficult because you're spending so much time with your partner.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, but we love it.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: But no, we still we still make an effort to like get dressed up and go on dates, right?
48:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, during the workday, we'll just go on our work clothes and hit up the local pub, but we do also put those efforts in.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, we we always hold hands constantly.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: I we can just be sitting on the couch and it's like, hold my hand, okay?
48:25
SPEAKER_01: Like I so it's we're very, very, very expressive, and we're also very expressive with our words as well, too.
48:32
SPEAKER_01: Um and we're getting better at fighting, we're always gonna forever argue, um, but we're definitely getting better at more it more being arguing instead of fighting, like not raising our voice and stuff, working on things like that.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
48:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of personal growth, I think, has also factored into it as well, too.
48:51
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, being expressive in touch in communication, like thanking your partner for the hard work that they did today, or if he completes like a big task, or vice versa.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: It's just and I know he appreciates me for it.
49:04
SPEAKER_01: I know he thanks me for it, but hearing it all the time though is really nice too, though.
49:10
SPEAKER_00: So for the listeners out there, get your pen and paper out and write all of that down.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: Those are great tips and tools for how to have a healthier marriage, or at least move towards one that's really healthy.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: Those are awesome.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: Well done.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: Madison.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: Be be extra affectionate towards your husband this evening because this is lovely.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you you have to really like celebrate these moments of success.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: And I would say that you guys are, you know, I don't know to what level of success you're in in your business.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: It sounds like you guys are continually moving up the ladder.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, but your marriage certainly is thriving as far as I can tell.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, and and I love the idea of learning to fight better.
49:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of couples will say, Well, we're great, we never fight.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: It's like, ugh.
49:55
SPEAKER_01: That's scary as well, too.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's not as a red flag in my books.
49:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's yeah, you need to argue, you need to have disagreements because otherwise, how are you gonna be known?
50:05
SPEAKER_01: It's exactly right.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't want someone to be, yeah, I don't want someone to be passive or just agree with everything.
50:11
SPEAKER_01: Like, if I'm wrong, you tell me.
50:13
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's okay.
50:15
SPEAKER_01: I I'm a I'm a big girl, I can get over that.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: I will accept when I'm wrong.
50:19
SPEAKER_01: It might maybe take us a little bit of convincing, but I will get there.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: Fair, fair point.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: But it's it's kind of like you're holding that tension of like the ego and pride with with humility.
50:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
50:29
SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's a really healthy tension of like, yeah, I'm I might be wrong, but I really don't want to be.
50:33
SPEAKER_00: So like I'm gonna I'm gonna fight you through this, but I'm willing to hear it, you know?
50:37
SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's a beautiful tension to be in.
50:40
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
50:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: And just I guess like self-awareness as well too.
50:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I know, like I think I know what my strengths and my weaknesses are.
50:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think Laurent's also very good at recognizing his own as well, too.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we don't even have to call each other out, like when we're in a in a in a mood or something, it'll well naturally work through it.
51:00
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, oh, you know what?
51:02
SPEAKER_01: I was a little hangry, and that's why I was really testing, and there was no reason, or like my invoice software program wasn't working, and I didn't need to snap at you.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: It's also a lot of self-awareness as well, too.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
51:13
SPEAKER_00: I love that again.
51:14
SPEAKER_00: Take notes if you're listening to this, take notes.
51:16
SPEAKER_00: Those are great tips of just admitting in humility what's going on with you to the other person.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: I love it, I love it so much.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: So, so Madison, I gotta wrap up with you, but before we do that, um for those that are listening, I I have an interesting swath of listeners.
51:34
SPEAKER_00: I have as many listeners in Frankfurt, Germany as I have in Denver, uh, which is right down the street for me.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: Um and so it's kind of a fun thing, but how can people find you?
51:45
SPEAKER_00: How can people you know get a hold of your product?
51:48
SPEAKER_00: How how can they try it out?
51:49
SPEAKER_00: If they're in the States like I am, what what can we get?
51:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, so if you're in the States, you can get the non-alcoholic.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: Um we do have two retailers that do ship across.
52:00
SPEAKER_01: Um that'll be upside.com and sober market.
52:05
SPEAKER_01: And then outside of that, you'll have to come for a visit at the winery.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh or at least just follow us on Facebook, Instagram.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think we're on Twitter yet.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we're on TikTok though.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh just about any platform you can think about.
52:18
SPEAKER_01: Um and that's just gonna be VOA Acres.
52:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, just keep following us online, join our mailing list, uh website, VLAacres.com.
52:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh one day we'll eventually get down to the States, or maybe one day you end up this way.
52:33
SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, I I hope so.
52:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't get out much, but if I can, I will definitely try my best to get there.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: Um thank you so much, Madison, for joining me on the VoyageCast today.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: And I will put all those links in the show notes.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, and if you like this episode, if you guys like this kind of content, if you love Madison, check out her stuff, check out her products.
52:54
SPEAKER_00: She's hard not to love.
52:55
SPEAKER_00: And uh subscribe.
52:57
SPEAKER_00: Subscribe to me, subscribe to her stuff, follow us, check it out, and we'll see you next time.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, Madison.
53:05
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.