Latest / Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast / S2 E14: Discussing Obi-Wan Kenobi as "The Negotiator"

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S2 E14: Discussing Obi-Wan Kenobi as "The Negotiator" · Most Things Kenobi - A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  It's Most Things Kenobi, an elegant podcast for a more
• 0:04
  civilized fandom. Hi everyone, welcome to another
• 0:21
  episode of Most Things Kenobi, a podcast about Obi Wan Kenobi and
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  all things Star Wars. I'm your host, Leanne.
• 0:28
  And I'm your host, Lauren, and. We are discussing Obi Wan this
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  week. We are yes.
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  Even though another and or trailer dropped and we debated.
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  We debated. What the hell, guys?
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  You can't just do that. But for anyone who saw the
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  second trailer, did you notice they put a klax on in the
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  trailer and saved us the trouble?
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  And I thought we. Both had the same thought.
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  I love that. So that happened.
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  It was good. The trailer looks good.
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  Yeah, it was really good. But that's not why we're here
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  today. We're here for the man, Obi Wan,
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  quote, the negotiator. End Quote.
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  That's what we're talking about on this episode.
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  I tried to find why specifically, like if there is a
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  Canon reason why he's called that.
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  Yeah. And I I couldn't find anything.
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  I found lots of examples of him negotiating.
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  Oh yeah, yeah. It's just, I think it's a
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  collective one of those like silent agreements where
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  everybody just kind of, but it is stated by Grievous.
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  Doesn't Grievous actually call him?
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  Yes. The negotiator or the negotiator
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  is here or something. He does like Leave it to
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  Grievous, which is which is a new sitcom, not Leave it to
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  Beaver. It's Leave It to Grievous.
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  I would watch that hands down every week without missing an
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  episode. Me too.
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  Oh my God, I need to see this now.
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  This. Is ridiculous.
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  He's on a front porch swing with all of his limbs and all of his
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  lightsabers. I'm like crying.
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  I'm laughing. So leave it to Grievous.
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  Yep. Please tell me this theme song
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  is someone whistling Yeah. It is.
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  It's actually Obi Wan. Oh my God I'm dying.
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  That's a good start to the show. On a side note, we should
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  totally do an episode called Leave It to Grievous and just
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  talk about Grievous and how fucking ridiculous he is.
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  We should just do that. Please, I'm OK.
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  He's a favorite always and forever.
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  So yes, yes to that. A million times yes.
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  Oh, that was great. Thank you.
• 3:00
  It's hard for a long. Time you're you're welcome.
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  I didn't mean to do it. You always get me and then I get
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  you. And neither of us are ever
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  prepared. And we've been friends for how
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  long? So long, it's so good.
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  That's the beauty of it. It's always very genuine.
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  It is. You're one of my favorite
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  people. Same.
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  I love you, I. Love you we're.
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  Here in a moment. So I'll be wine.
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  I'm done. I thought of several instances,
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  and in fact, we could bring up instances not just in Clone
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  Wars, but like all the way through the Obi Wan Kenobi show.
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  Because the more you think about it, the more instances come up
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  in your brain, right? Why he was just dubbed then it
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  go. It's so obvious when you compare
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  him to, say, Anakin. Yes, like.
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  That is self-explanatory, but amongst the Jedi, I think that
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  Qui Gon also could have been known as that 'cause he went
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  into it a little softer. You know, violence wasn't his
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  first choice. Anakin.
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  But I think there's a refined essence about Obi Wan that
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  allows him to kind of try to talk his way in and out of
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  things. My favorite instance is when he
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  literally gets the shit beaten out of him in the Clone Wars
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  during the Cadavo arc. Yeah, I was going to say which
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  time. Yeah, well, that's true.
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  But then he goes, he just lets it happen because he's waiting
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  on Anakin and Ahsoka. But then like he does the crush
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  thing that we love and then takes his lifesaver and he's
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  like, now let's discuss, you know, the means of your.
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  Yeah. And it's, it's like he would
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  have led with that had it not been for like the you got a
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  stall for us, you know? Yeah.
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  I think he derives some pleasure from talking.
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  I think so too 'cause he uses words as weapons as well.
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  And you know, he, he has the reputation, I guess, of Ceresu,
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  right? He's done the defense.
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  He's not an attacker, so to speak.
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  But I love, something I love about Cadavo is that he chooses
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  to actually kind of manipulate the situation by offering to use
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  a Zeigerian, you know, technique or whatever, like a Zeigerian
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  custom of fighting hand to hand to like solve their problems.
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  So in that sense, instead of just coming in and trying to
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  like strong arm the situation as a Jedi, he comes in there and
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  uses local custom. Yeah.
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  To like, meet them halfway. Granted, it's in this situation,
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  it's it's a tactic. He doesn't have any any
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  intention of really surrendering.
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  But yeah, it's a great scene. What's what's odd about that
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  whole thing is the fact that it's ends up being Anakin
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  discussing shit with the Queen and he kind of not negotiates in
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  a sense, but he is the one that ends up having to do the
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  talking, the schmoozing, the put on a certain face or a mask if
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  you will. But that's Obi Wan's thing.
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  So maybe a little bit rubbed off on Anakin, I don't know, but
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  just a. Little, little bit.
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  I mean, I, I would say that there's an element of Qui Gon in
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  the way that Obi Wan negotiates and then there's a smidge of Obi
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  Wan. If Anakin negotiates it all,
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  it's only because Qui Gon and Obi Wan had a little influence
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  in his life. Totally true, totally true.
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  I actually like to think that Ahsoka picked up more of it from
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  Obi Wan than anybody really. She can do that, but she also is
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  not afraid to bust out the lightsabers if need be.
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  She there's two schools of thought with Obi Wan, right,
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  that his negotiating, you know, the pun, aggressive
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  negotiations, the negotiations were short, blah, blah, blah.
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  Obi Wan in his puns, right, that the negotiating was with his
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  lightsaber because he was so skilled.
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  But I'm of the I'm of the school of thought that it's because he
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  could talk, he could discuss, he could put away the need for
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  we're the Jedi. We will, we will come in and
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  we'll bust down your door and, you know, like some other Jedi,
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  we, we know. Quinn Levoss, PLO Coon even
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  remember when PLO took Ahsoka to the underbelly of Coruscant and
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  like all they did was show their lightsabers like it was fucking
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  Wild West? Wild.
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  Guys what? But think of his friendship with
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  Hondo like that is because Obi Wan takes the time to talk to
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  some people. That's such a good example.
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  And I love what you're saying because I really I so agree with
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  you. I think Obi Wan knows that if he
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  gets out a lightsaber, there is no conversation gonna happen.
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  He's he's good at what he does. He'll cut off your arms quickly
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  and that will be the end of it. So instead, he'd rather give you
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  the chance to talk. And I mean usually give you the
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  chance to talk, Not always. It's actually kind of smart
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  because you can learn more. You know when they're dead, they
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  can't tell you stuff. Right.
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  Great point. There's some tact to trying to
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  speak. I mean, there's the ones that
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  you can't talk to, like fucking Maul, right?
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  And if you're going to talk to him, you might as well throw in
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  a jab about how he looks. About his nice legs.
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  Yes. Well, even when he was young,
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  there's that great scene in Phantom Menace.
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  I mean, great is a relative term when it comes to the prequels.
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  But when they're in the Gungan city, you know, under the water
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  and they're it's the first time they're meeting with the Gungans
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  and they're gonna punish Jar Jar.
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  Oh my God, I forgot his name for a second.
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  And Obi Wan says something about how they have a symbiotic
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  relationship with the humans basically that live on shore.
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  And he that's like the first indication of his diplomacy that
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  he's seeing a larger picture and is trying to help other people
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  understand. Like you can't just be so close
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  minded or single focused. You know, there's a larger
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  picture at play. And he's really young in that
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  moment, so. It's that's true.
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  I mean, obviously he had skill for it, but he's a thinker.
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  Yeah. You got to watch out for those
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  thinkers. I always, I always think of
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  Thrawn. He's like the extreme other end
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  of like he's thinking so much that he has the poker face to
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  end all poker faces. And it's scary.
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  But Obi Wan's kind of like a happy blend of muscle and
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  mental. And then Anakin's on the other
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  opposite end of just all muscle and, and very little mind.
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  But you know. Yes, yes, I agree with all that
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  you're saying. I can't.
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  Not hard enough. I don't want to.
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  I don't want to shortchange. I don't want to shortchange
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  Anakin. Not because I'm biased, but
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  because I do think that if he had been kind of propped up more
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  to be more confident in that aspect of him, he could have
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  been really good. Like he could have been really
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  well spoken. I just think there was just so
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  much emotion there and emotions cloud your judgement And, and
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  like kind of what's the word it affects the tone you use, the
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  words you use, the pace at which you speak.
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  Obi Wan has all of that under control.
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  He's so under control that he can just compartmentalize that,
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  oh, these are slavers, They're bad people.
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  Yeah, but we have a job to do and I need to see about doing
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  this with the least amount of lives lost.
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  Yes. Yeah, I don't know how he does
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  it. I I don't know.
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  Honest to God, I'd probably be more like Anakin.
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  Well Anakin has his great moments.
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  We could do an episode about the moments cause like think of the
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  Lurman. It's a great example.
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  Oh my God. So yes, yes, right.
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  And like he did a beautiful job in that scenario, I think.
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  And something I have on my list here for Obi Wan is the bounty
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  hunters episode with the little turtle people who I can never.
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  I don't know the name of their their I know.
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  They're a favorite and I've still not bothered to learn
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  their names, which is terrible of me.
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  Forgive me, little turtles. They're the pollution turtle
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  community. Yeah, I the Woody allens the.
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  FTC Wow, I'm just full of them today.
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  I don't know what happened. To God, I love it.
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  The that's a great episode because all three of them, Obi
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  Wan, Anakin and Ahsoka are all on their own wavelengths.
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  They're not that they're in like competition with each other, but
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  like Obi Wan is seeing again, like the larger picture.
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  Anakin wants to help, Ahsoka really wants to help.
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  And it's like if they help, they could be making the situation
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  worse. Yeah.
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  But what I love, and you see this with Obi Wan over and over,
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  is that he actually is really good at giving people their own
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  strength. Yeah, which is the sign of a
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  good leader, very good leadership skill.
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  Right. It's like the, you know, teach a
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  man to fish and he'll give a man a fish, he'll feed him for a
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  day. Teach him to fish, he can feed
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  himself whatever, and he does that.
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  Feed a turtle community. Yeah, yes, yeah.
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  Little fish for the turtles. But he also does that in the
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  trespass episode on the OR to Plutonia the moon.
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  Oh, you know, with the. Snowy creatures.
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  I love that episode, I really do.
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  Such a good episode and the way he is very diplomatic the entire
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  time and he's not. It's the Jedi, it's the local
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  people, it's the oh God, what is Riachuchi?
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  Pantorin. Thank you, the Pantorins.
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  You're welcome. He's he's negotiating all these
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  aspects. And at the end, Rio wants him to
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  to negotiate and he's like, no, you need to do it.
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  You're you're the actual diplomat, first of all.
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  And second of all, by having her do that, she finds her voice and
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  her strength and it actually makes her more capable in the
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  future. It's awesome.
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  We see her grow up and become a powerhouse.
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  Yeah, in the Bad Batch. So.
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  It's so cool and I don't know, it's such a cute episode too.
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  Like it's a horrible. Oh I know.
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  No, but the winter jackets, they're fucking winter jackets.
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  Are Ahsoka has a hood? No, that's a different episode
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  where she has the hood with the two points.
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  The little puff falls on the points.
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  Honestly can't remember what Ahsoka's wearing in that.
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  I am so distracted by I don't she's not there.
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  I don't think she's there. I think this is a different
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  episode that I'm thinking of where she has a.
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  She is. That's with.
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  Two points. Yeah, Lux, but whatever his name
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  is Lux. Yeah, yeah, she has an adorable
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  snow like parka I want, but yeah, I love that they have,
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  they have snow jackets. You see them one time.
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  That's it. Yeah, that's it.
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  And the goggles, which I love. It's as close as we're gonna get
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  to Alpine Obi Wan and Alpine Anakin as we're ever gonna get.
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  OK, random question for you. Would Obi Wan be a snowboarder
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  or a skier? Oh, he's a skier.
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  Anakin is definitely a snowboarder.
• 15:06
  Yeah, Yep. And that's not judging skiers or
• 15:10
  snowboarders. No, but I agree.
• 15:13
  It's like their vibe, yeah. There's definitely a vibe with
• 15:18
  them. I love it, I love it.
• 15:24
  You know what's another great example is the innocence of
• 15:27
  Ryloth. I thought of this too.
• 15:30
  I thought of this as well. Yeah.
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  That is, I would say one of his prime examples honestly, in The
• 15:38
  Clone Wars. The thing that's interesting too
• 15:41
  about that is it's not just diplomacy with like the the
• 15:44
  people on Ryloth, it's also with his own soldiers.
• 15:48
  Yes, yes. And I, we can't forget that the
• 15:52
  clones are following orders, but Obi Wan treats them differently
• 15:57
  than a lot of commanders would or do.
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  And the way that they're like, just blown away by his power, at
• 16:06
  the same time, they forget that he's that powerful because he's
• 16:09
  just, you know, kind of, yeah, he's there.
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  He's not one of them, but he is in like a teamwork kind of way.
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  And this is early in their relationship, so to speak.
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  You know, he's like a new leader to them at this point 'cause
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  it's still Season 1 and he's seeing that Waxer and Boyle are
• 16:30
  kind of like itching to go. And like, why do we have to be
• 16:33
  so careful? And so he picks them to come on
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  the mission and like, do the more aggressive stuff, I guess,
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  or like the, the sneaking around a bit and held them responsible
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  'cause that's what they were asking for.
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  But he did it in a way without making it super obvious.
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  And I was like, fine, you, you want action.
• 16:52
  And we're gonna have action. Yeah.
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  And. And and it's on them if they
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  embarrass themselves or get in over their head too much.
• 16:59
  And it was a teaching moment, but he did it so subtly.
• 17:02
  Yeah, he's actually a really good teacher.
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  Know if Anakin would agree. Shit, I didn't think of that.
• 17:12
  I was thinking like, he's a great example for Ahsoka and all
• 17:16
  of these clones and oh, Anakin. It's a personality issue.
• 17:22
  First of all, there's some onus on the student as well.
• 17:26
  Yeah. For sure.
• 17:27
  Every student. We've all been students, right?
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  We've had the teachers we've got along with and the classes that
• 17:32
  we like. And the opposite is true with
• 17:35
  the teachers we don't like. We do poor.
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  There's some onus on that. Yeah, At least it was on me.
• 17:39
  I'll speak for myself. I wouldn't have minded, although
• 17:46
  I don't know, I I take that back.
• 17:47
  Like there are moments where I feel like I would have learned a
• 17:50
  lot from Obi Wan and there are moments where his teaching style
• 17:53
  would have driven me personally insane because I hate people who
• 17:59
  aren't direct. Oh so.
• 18:06
  Yeah. He might have negotiated you
• 18:09
  into it though. Well, I would have been open to
• 18:12
  it. Negotiate me anything, I'm here.
• 18:17
  A really cool example is Mortis. Because he totally.
• 18:23
  He has to be this neutral party the entire time when all this
• 18:28
  crazy fucking shit is going on and he, he's just kind of always
• 18:34
  standing to the side with his arms crossed, observing and not
• 18:39
  inserting himself where he doesn't need to be.
• 18:43
  And that is so different than Anakin, who gets very swept up
• 18:48
  in the emotional part of Mortis 'cause it's very, you know, it's
• 18:51
  kind of attacking Anakin the entire time.
• 18:55
  Totally. And it's very triggered on him
• 18:58
  so of course like seeing your dead mother would probably freak
• 19:01
  you out. Obi Wan did see Qui Gon at
• 19:05
  Mortis and that didn't derail him.
• 19:08
  He still somehow managed to kind of take everything with a grain
• 19:11
  of salt, not judge anything too quickly because it was a very
• 19:15
  bizarre world and the circumstances were weird, but
• 19:18
  it. Felt like they were always two
• 19:21
  or three steps behind what was happening, like they were just
• 19:23
  figuring out what just happened when something else was thrown
• 19:27
  at them and then they had to figure out what the Hell's
• 19:28
  happening now. So to have an observer in the
• 19:32
  group that was a good thing for Obi Wan to do was to absorb and
• 19:36
  not react. I think it shows how strong his
• 19:40
  mind is because it's it was such a mind fog.
• 19:48
  If anyone's going to actually speak to this, the the daughter
• 19:51
  and the son and the father, it's Obi Wan because everyone else is
• 19:56
  just reacting because they all had their own stake in the game.
• 20:02
  You know, Anakin, I'm sorry, Obi Wan and Ahsoka were kind of like
• 20:05
  the innocent bystanders in this dramatic.
• 20:08
  Plot to get Anakin to take over the Father's duties.
• 20:12
  That the whole thing is, we've said it before, fucked.
• 20:16
  Listen to our episodes about Yeah Bored is because that was
• 20:20
  great fun to talk about. It's just that whole we, we
• 20:26
  don't need to say it again. It's crazy and it's, it's messed
• 20:28
  up. But at least Obi Wan would had
• 20:30
  enough wherewithal to like slow down, breathe, take stock of
• 20:34
  what's happening. Yeah.
• 20:36
  Try and make sense of it as things are moving, parts are
• 20:38
  moving. He tries to negotiate with
• 20:40
  Anakin when he goes to the dark side and he's changed and he's
• 20:46
  chasing after Anakin again. This is what reminded me of the
• 20:51
  Obi Wan Kenobi series when we see you in in Obi Wan's role.
• 20:58
  They kept that negotiating part seamless through there in the
• 21:02
  fact that he spoke with Breva to try and get some ground.
• 21:08
  Well, he was also like buying time for what's her name and the
• 21:13
  tunnel and the escapees and the rebels and the.
• 21:15
  Yes, Yeah, Tala. The underground Tala, so you
• 21:19
  know, that was twofold. Again, buying time, but also
• 21:23
  like trying to get through to her and then eventually Vader.
• 21:30
  You could could you classify his very last words to Anakin in
• 21:34
  that in that last duel negotiation?
• 21:38
  I think it was just an emotional truth.
• 21:41
  It's just a like, lay it out. This is it.
• 21:43
  This is the end of our friendship as we know it.
• 21:46
  Just lay it bare. And Obi Wan was just being.
• 21:49
  But I think there was a little bit of hope in there that maybe
• 21:53
  somewhere in there if there's a fraction of the human he used to
• 21:56
  know, but he knew Anakin was gone.
• 21:59
  So leading up to it I think the negotiating part of Obi Wan was
• 22:04
  in full force until it was the walls were down.
• 22:07
  Literally he took all the rocks and threw them at fucking power
• 22:14
  move but. I think you're right.
• 22:17
  And the way he the last words, he says goodbye, Darth.
• 22:22
  He doesn't say the name Vader, He doesn't say Anakin.
• 22:26
  It's very like a. Doors shut.
• 22:29
  Yeah, like a little bit of a slap back because it's like the
• 22:33
  final word. You can't say anything else to
• 22:35
  me. I have nothing more to say to
• 22:36
  you. Also the the last scene with him
• 22:40
  and Riva in the desert when he's kind of like speaking to her,
• 22:46
  talking her down off of her horrible emotional roller
• 22:50
  coaster she's been on. And he's kind to her.
• 22:53
  And so many people could easily be judgmental.
• 22:58
  And I think that he's, he's always ready to kind of help
• 23:02
  someone take their little final moral step in the direction that
• 23:08
  he, you know, could you could see is like maybe their destiny
• 23:11
  or their potential for goodness. He is very keen to help people.
• 23:17
  I think that's also why he would felt so tortured during the
• 23:19
  Kenobi series is because that's probably what he was trying to
• 23:22
  do his whole life with Anakin really blew up in his face.
• 23:25
  A. Lot of guilt there.
• 23:27
  Well I mean to circle back to Mortis, I always found it
• 23:29
  interesting that in The Cave Obi Wan sees Qui Gon, Ahsoka sees
• 23:35
  her grown self and Anakin is off seeing his mother.
• 23:41
  We don't quite know why they see what they do when they do, but
• 23:46
  Obi Wan sees what he thinks is his failure is his failure to
• 23:51
  train the boy right or to properly train the boy.
• 23:54
  At least it's going that direction.
• 23:57
  Anakin sees his mom, who he failed to protect her life, and
• 24:02
  Ahsoka sees herself and it's like the potential to be someone
• 24:06
  she doesn't want to become. Yeah, which?
• 24:08
  I think is very smart. So there's always that guilt
• 24:11
  hanging over Obi Wan. So I think, yeah, if he's going
• 24:14
  to try and negotiate out of something to save some lives,
• 24:16
  he's going to do it. But unless that's just not
• 24:19
  possible, then outcomes the lightsaber and the skill.
• 24:25
  There are some funny examples of him, like Geonosis is a really
• 24:29
  good example where he's meets the queen and yeah.
• 24:33
  Oh, how could I forget this? But he's like, he's not actually
• 24:37
  negotiating anything. He's except I guess, negotiating
• 24:41
  their complete and total surrender without giving them
• 24:45
  any option. He's just like your reign is at
• 24:48
  an end, my lady. Yeah, but at least he's polite
• 24:51
  about it, so you know. Very polite, yeah.
• 24:55
  That's I think that's what Grievous is talking about.
• 24:57
  Oh, here he comes, Mr. Smooth Talker.
• 25:00
  Come come to try and talk his way out of this one, you know?
• 25:04
  It's true. And like Anakin in that scene,
• 25:06
  that's a really good example because Anakin's ready to get
• 25:09
  his lightsaber out. And Obi Wan's like, I make
• 25:12
  observations while you think with your lightsaber and that's
• 25:17
  he's ready to listen and observe and talk, but he can kill you if
• 25:24
  he needs to. No cinnamon roll, No cinnamon
• 25:27
  bun here, right? No, and I every time I think of
• 25:32
  Obi Wan as a cinnamon bun I just remember Ben Kenobi literally
• 25:35
  just hacking someone's arm off one second into a conflict at
• 25:40
  that cantina. I just like I.
• 25:43
  Didn't think about you. You're right.
• 25:45
  That was not a negotiator. He's old and he's had it OK by
• 25:51
  that point. It's time to get the show on the
• 25:54
  road with Luke and they got shit to do.
• 25:56
  But he I guess he does kind of negotiate with Han, like he's
• 25:59
  willing to let Han brag about some bullshit.
• 26:02
  And I just recently saw how Han is saying that he's bragging
• 26:08
  about the Kessel Run in parsecs, I think.
• 26:11
  And apparently parsecs are not a measurement of time, it's a
• 26:16
  measurement of distance. And Obi Wan makes this look like
• 26:20
  what? When he says that it's like he's
• 26:22
  bragging about distance. It's like it's always the same
• 26:25
  distance. It's not something to brag
• 26:28
  about, which I think is hilarious.
• 26:29
  That's funny. It's the.
• 26:34
  But Obi Wan doesn't call about it.
• 26:36
  No, he doesn't call him out. He's like, wow, that's really
• 26:39
  fast. Wow.
• 26:43
  Would you take us to Alderaan then?
• 26:50
  It makes me wonder, I'm going to pose a question that I didn't I
• 26:53
  didn't think of until now. Are there any negatives to Obi
• 27:00
  Wan being an expert negotiator? It's funny you ask this because
• 27:06
  I kind of have thought about it. Where are the scenarios where
• 27:11
  his approach fails and the Jedi who knew too much or whatever?
• 27:16
  The one about Ahsoka's final arc in Clone Wars that didn't say.
• 27:20
  Anything. Exactly.
• 27:23
  He was so diplomatic that he said nothing.
• 27:26
  That's a good example. And also, I think, like, the
• 27:29
  Lawless is another good example and that I don't think he had
• 27:32
  any other choice. You know, he wasn't about to let
• 27:35
  Satine just get, you know, be killed.
• 27:38
  Yeah. And so he went against what the
• 27:40
  council said. And it's, it blew up in his face
• 27:43
  so badly. But I don't think he could have
• 27:45
  lived with himself if he hadn't tried.
• 27:48
  It's true Maul had him though. Maul had the one tool that would
• 27:55
  bring he hoped would bring Obi Wan to his knees.
• 27:59
  And again, Obi Wan did not allow his emotions to get him.
• 28:05
  He moved forward, you know, with got to get out of there, got to
• 28:10
  get, you know, every there's so much other shit going on and he
• 28:13
  can mourn later, which I that's that's terrible.
• 28:16
  It's hard. I did think that maybe the fact
• 28:19
  that Satine was also very diplomatic and her tone was a
• 28:25
  little different. She was a little more
• 28:27
  forthright. I mean, she was a true leader,
• 28:28
  though. She had to lead in the way that
• 28:30
  Obi Wan is a Jedi and part of a collective.
• 28:32
  She was the leader, you know, and so maybe a little different,
• 28:38
  but I do wonder if he he found that a part of his crush on her
• 28:42
  or whatever else they had, you know.
• 28:43
  Oh. Probably, yeah.
• 28:46
  I think he probably looked up to her in a in A and she him same
• 28:49
  thing in return. She didn't like the the force
• 28:52
  that the Jedi used. She liked the fact that Obi Wan
• 28:55
  was different in the in the way that he would try to at least
• 28:58
  negotiate, have a talk. Yeah, and what an interest.
• 29:02
  That's an interesting question you posed.
• 29:04
  Is he that way because of her? Wouldn't that be funny because
• 29:08
  when they were younger. The formative years.
• 29:10
  Yeah, exactly. They probably learned a thing or
• 29:13
  two from each other. I'm sure.
• 29:16
  I think that. Makes it harder to deal with.
• 29:20
  It's so hard. The Mandalore arc is a great
• 29:23
  example of his diplomacy though because he goes back there
• 29:26
  knowing full well she does not like him and that they're
• 29:30
  they're not close friends anymore.
• 29:32
  But he still goes there and he is pretty snarky.
• 29:36
  I wouldn't say he's completely respectful and neither is she,
• 29:39
  but like the fact that he can go there and still do his duty
• 29:43
  shows that he like, that's a great example of diplomacy.
• 29:49
  And I guess he's a negotiator, not a diplomat, but I kind of
• 29:52
  say the diplomacy and and yeah, negotiation go hand in hand.
• 29:56
  But yeah, I think it's look. At all the times that that Padme
• 30:00
  had to. You know.
• 30:02
  When she wanted to speak her mind, but she had to be, you
• 30:05
  know, she had to negotiate. You couldn't just go in guns, a
• 30:08
  blade. I mean, she probably, I mean she
• 30:11
  was with Anakin, so she. Yeah, I was gonna.
• 30:13
  She was a. Poorest example, I think if I
• 30:20
  were to answer that same question, is there a time where
• 30:25
  he failed with the negotiations? I, I don't think we, you brought
• 30:30
  up, we just talked about the best examples, but I think it
• 30:32
  would like really grind me, like grind my gears if I was his
• 30:36
  student and he always was talking and thinking and not
• 30:39
  doing because I'm kind of a list taker and I knock things off my
• 30:43
  list and, and like I'm accomplished when I've done the
• 30:45
  things right. And people who talk about big
• 30:49
  picture and want to look at it from all angles and stuff really
• 30:51
  exhaust me at times, not all the time.
• 30:54
  Yeah, yeah. Just if there's we need to go do
• 30:57
  something, I'm going to be like Anakin, now let's just go
• 31:00
  fucking do it. But no, you got to slow down and
• 31:01
  think about it. So there's I think that part of
• 31:05
  him would exhaust me, but there's value to why and how he
• 31:10
  does it so. I agree with you.
• 31:13
  When you said it would frustrate you to no end being his student,
• 31:17
  I would also agree because of that same reason.
• 31:22
  I think the the bounty hunters episode is a good example of
• 31:27
  that because I he was so ready to just be like sorry we can't
• 31:32
  help. And then he very obviously did
• 31:36
  help and got neck deep in the situation and even killed some
• 31:40
  people helping. But like why couldn't he just
• 31:44
  try to find a way? OK fine, you can't stay and
• 31:48
  fight. How about try to find a
• 31:49
  solution? He didn't even try.
• 31:52
  And that that episode always did frustrate me because of that.
• 31:56
  Well, I think maybe his adherence to the code in the
• 31:59
  Jedi Council probably would would get in the way.
• 32:03
  Yeah. And like, then we don't have
• 32:05
  orders or, or any such idea in his head.
• 32:08
  Like if he gets to somewhere and we're like, well, this is not
• 32:10
  why we're here. We can't do this.
• 32:12
  Maybe just bend a little bit with the breeze, you know?
• 32:15
  And he does plenty of times. There's so many moments where
• 32:18
  it's like, do as I say, not as I do.
• 32:20
  And then when he sticks to his guns, sometimes you're like, why
• 32:23
  now? Yeah.
• 32:25
  Why are you being such a stick in the mud about stuff?
• 32:28
  In this particular instance, you know, I, I don't know, there are
• 32:33
  moments where he doesn't speak up.
• 32:36
  And that I find very frustrating 'cause he is so powerful and he
• 32:40
  has the ability to sway minds. So when he doesn't speak up for
• 32:44
  Ahsoka and when he doesn't speak up against the Reiko Hardeen
• 32:48
  idea. Like.
• 32:50
  Why would you be willing to do that to Anakin, but also anybody
• 32:55
  who was your friend, who wasn't in on the plan?
• 33:00
  It's a cruel, cruel thing. It goes back to who was really
• 33:05
  pulling the strings, the top of the top.
• 33:08
  It was Palpatine all along. And like, sometimes you just
• 33:13
  don't see it. They they, none of them really
• 33:16
  saw it. Yeah, well, it's hard when
• 33:19
  you're living, you know, your whole Jedi Temple is built on a
• 33:22
  Sith. Well of evil I.
• 33:24
  Was just thinking that I'm like for shit's sake they were parked
• 33:29
  on top of one, how are they going to see anything?
• 33:32
  So stupid. Oh my God.
• 33:40
  Good effort though, Jedi. Why wasn't Obi Wan there to
• 33:44
  negotiate the building plans for this thing?
• 33:46
  Why did it have to happen without him present?
• 33:49
  I know it was ages before he was even born, but man little.
• 33:53
  Yeah, a little embryo. We needed more of him out there.
• 33:58
  Did you just say little embryo? I did Embryo Kenobi negotiate
• 34:08
  the architectural plans. That's the end of the episode.
• 34:13
  Oh my God, that's so good. OK, on our next episode, leave
• 34:26
  it to Grievous. We're going to do it.
• 34:32
  We're just going to do an episode all about Grievous, and
• 34:36
  maybe we'll even make thieves. TuneIn next episode to see if we
• 34:42
  whistle the intro. Oh.
• 34:44
  My God, I don't know how to whistle.
• 34:46
  I got to find somebody who can do it.
• 34:48
  James Arnold Taylor, Do You whistle?
• 34:53
  You can do like the Andy Griffith whistle.
• 34:55
  Yeah. Oh my God, Oh my God.
• 35:00
  So enjoyed us back for our next episode all about Grievous.
• 35:06
  And thank you so much for joining us here every single
• 35:09
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• 35:12
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• 35:15
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• 35:20
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• 35:39
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• 35:44
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