Latest / Honey Badger Radio / Speaking With Former TSgt Micah & Arvis Owens About a Wild Story You Can't Miss! | Fireside Chat 258

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Speaking With Former TSgt Micah & Arvis Owens About a Wild Story You Can't Miss! | Fireside Chat 258 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio. My name
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: is Brian and this is the Fireside Chat and today
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I am blessed with two guests. Micah Carroll is here
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: to tell his story, and Arvis Owens is doing like support,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I guess is there to support? Yes, yes, so help
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: us to help us sort of stay on track so
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: we don't get distracted. So this is part of what
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: appears to be turning into a series which I totally
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: am fine with, of speaking with various victims of, you know,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: false allegations or at least victims of getting a lack
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: and due process in the military. And so we're gonna
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: hear Micah's story. So first of all, welcome to the show.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Both you guys. How are you guys doing.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Doing well? Thank you for having us on. I really
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: appreciate it, all right, thank you for having us.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, okay, So I guess we'll just start with
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: your story. Mike. It's kind of it's crazy, it sounds
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: crazy from what I heard, So tell us what happened?
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Where did it all begin?
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: So the beginning is joined the Air Force in ninety
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: eight intelligence by trade deployed quite often, as you know,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: and most people know a lot of conflicts throughout the world,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: and we were constantly traveling around the world to police humanity.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: But one of my deployments in two thousand and nine
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: to Afghanistan, I had a gut feeling, based on conversations
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: with my wife that there wasn't something right about her
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: situation at home. I felt like she was becoming more
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: and more distant, and I just had a feeling she
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: was not being faithful. And towards the end of my deployment,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I talked to my commander, told him about the situation,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: and he agreed to let me go home a few
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: weeks early to see if I could try and salvage
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: my marriage and figure out what was going on. I didn't.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: I didn't tell any of my family that I was
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: going home early. I just went and I got home,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: nice surprise, nice reunion, hanging out with my kids. My
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: kids informed me that there was a man that had
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: been coming over to the house and hanging out and
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: staying the night, and of course I confronted my wife
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: about it, and she proceeded to tell me that she
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: had been having an affair and that she was going
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: to leave with him and start a new life.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: So but okay, let's back up for a second. Okay,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: so was this was this going on because you were
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: like maybe on deployment or something, or you were like
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: away well for periods of time.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, I can't really speak for her, but most
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: people have affairs due to loneliness probably and maybe lack
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: of relationship with their significant other. Being that I had deployed,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: that would would have been my sixth, sixth deployment, I
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: believe in ten years. I'm sure that that had something
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: to do with it being gone all the time we had.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Just I had just deployed for a year two to
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: the Desert in two thousand and eight. I got home
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: in May of two thousand and eight, moved military moved
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: us from Colorado to Alaska in November of two thousand
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: and eight, and then in February of two thousand and nine,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: I deployed to Afghanistan. So it was just like back
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: to back just and I actually I knew that our
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: relationship wasn't the greatest and I wasn't the best husband.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: I'll really admit that, but I just knew that I
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: probably shouldn't go on this deployment, and I asked the
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Air Force to find somebody to replace me for this
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: two thousand and nine Afghanistan trip, and they refused to
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: do it, and well that bit me, bit me in
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: the booty.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So, so your wife was disloyal and part
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: of it had to do with you weren't. And I'm
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: not even blaming you for it, because this is just
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: the nature of the beast. Like you know, you wanted
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: to serve your country, So this is what you did.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: She knew this when she got it, entered, you know,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: into the relationship, right, I mean, and then I guess
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: she was surprised that that meant that you weren't going
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: to always be around. And this isn't like again, uh,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I'm not praising or condemning anything. I'm just stating the
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: reality of the situation. So she was she cheated on you,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: and then she told you about it? What? What? What?
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Just out of curiosity? What gave you the sense that
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: something was wrong?
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, let me tell you that she
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have been surprised about anything because she was active
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: duty herself. So and she actually had been in the
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: military longer than me, about two years longer than me,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: So she knew exactly what she was getting into, and
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: so I'm not going to defend her at all on that, right, right,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: But it's just one of those gut feelings, you know.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: And I was intelligence, I did, you know, some some
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: human behavior specialty type stuff while I was active duty,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: and I have that instinct going for me. But I
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: also think it's just natural if for us humans to
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: sense when something's not right. And you know, I knew
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: that our relationship prior to this deployment. Deployment is pretty normal.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: We had pretty good relationship. You know, we're both athletic,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: we both had the same aspirations, the same goals in life.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Both you know, loved a snowboard, and I mean we
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: just had it, had had a good, good connection. And
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: when when that connection seems like something is is being
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: wedged in between, you know, in between, you you know
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: that something there's something outside of our relationship that's affecting
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: your connection. And that's what I felt when I was
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: in Afghanistan.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: All right, So okay, so you find out what happens next.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: So she moves out and she left me and my
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: three children at the house and took off with this guy.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: So she just left no divorce papers, no court battle,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: no nothing.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Apparently that was going to come later. She had a
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: place to stay and she didn't want to be with
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: me anymore, so she left. Well, for whatever reason, that
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: only lasted a week, week and a half, and she
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: came back and she said, changed my mind, you are
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: the man that I want. Let's let's start over and
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: try this again if you'll have me. And I'm like, okay.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: So we did. And to symbolize a new start, I
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: don't even know if that's a thing or not, but
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: we did it. We moved to a different house and
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: to a different town in Alaska and to try and
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: have a new start, a fresh start. And shortly after
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: we moved into our new house, she got orders to deploy.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Well that really disappointed me because the man that she
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: was having an affair with was in her unit and
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: he was to deploy with her, and I just wasn't
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: going to allow that to happen. So I went to
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: her leadership to say, hey, look, here's what happened while
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: I was deployed, and now you're trying to deploy her
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: with the same guy. And I just would appreciate it
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: if you would either take her or him off of
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: this deployment, so they're not going and hanging out again
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: and ripping our family apart again?
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Is this kind of thing normal? Like, I mean, I
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: know that, you know, like if this was a civilian workplace,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: there'd be you know, it's like a conflict of interest.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: There could be some issues, especially if the relationship skulls sour.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: You know, in companies they usually separate people if it
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: comes to that. So is this sort of like abnormal
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: that they would deploy her with this guy?
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Well, they weren't aware of the affair.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Oh they weren't.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, right? And was it a good idea for
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: me to go to her leadership? I don't know, looking back,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: it really didn't do anything. I actually kind of got
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: in trouble a little bit from my leadership for doing that.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: I didn't get any type of paperwork of any kind
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: of They just kind of scolded me, like you shouldn't
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: have done that. Obviously, my wife was not happy that
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: I did that. In the end, however, Nick was his name.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: He ended up getting taken off of the deployment. I
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: don't know if that had anything to do with what
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: I did or some other reason, or he felt bad
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: because I did have some confrontations with him. Maybe he
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: was like, maybe I shouldn't do this to this guy anymore.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but he didn't go on the deployment
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: and that made me feel better about her deploying to
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Guam at that time.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, all right, Okay, so you took her
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: back and then this deployment thing happened. Did you take
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: up out of curiosity? Again, because we do talk a
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: lot about this stuff, did you did you take her
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: back because you and if you don't feel comfortable answer
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: to this question, I understand, so you can just tell me.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Did you take her back because you thought that you
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: could make it work for your like you wanted her back,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: or did you do it because there were children involved
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: and you felt that, you know, for the kids, because
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of people do that where they they have
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: problems in their marriage, but there's children and they're like,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: we got to stay together for the kids, and they
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: make it work that way. Do you know what the
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: what your impetus was or hers for that matter.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I am a believer in Jesus. I am
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: a Christian man. I believe in grace and mercy and forgiveness,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: and I don't. I try my best not to be
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: a judgmental person. And because of those beliefs and values,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: I and I knew myself. I am was and am
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: not a perfect person. I make mistakes all the time.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I loved loved her, I really truly did. And it
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: was obviously extremely her full what she was doing. But
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: I believed one hundred percent that if we came back
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: together and did things the right way, we could reconcile
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: and have a healthy marriage, healthy family life moving forward.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: That was my mindset, sure, and I convinced her. I
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: suppose I convinced her of that, or or again, I
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: really don't know why she came back. I don't know
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: what her mindset was, or Nick's mindset, or why why
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: they decided to split. I don't know, But at that
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: time it didn't really matter to me. All that matters
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: is that she was back and she was willing to
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: work on our marriage, and I was grateful for that.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah at the time. All right, so you get back
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: together and she's like back on her like back doing
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: the things that she was doing before. Is that what happened?
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: So while she was deployed, that same behavior was kind
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: of there, and I was, you know, I questioned her
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: about it, and she's like, no, we're just you know,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: we're just taking advantage of this Guam environment. We're going
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: on a lot of hikes and fishing excursions and boat
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: trips and just exploring in our't off time. And I'm sorry,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: I'll try to do better about you know, calling and
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: so on and so forth. Well, and I was like, okay,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: that's fine. But then one of the wives of somebody
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: else in her unit called me and said, hey, I
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: was told that my husband and your wife for having
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: an affair over there in Guam, and I figured you
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: should know about it, And of course that just threw
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: me for a loop. And at that time is the
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: time where I decided to buy a quote unquote nanny
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: cam for my house for her return and so I
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: could get proof of this, so I knew in my
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: mind that it was happening, and then I could then
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: figure out what I was going to do, whether I
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: was going to give her one more chance, or whether
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I was going to just immediately file for davarre. Idn't
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: know at that time. I just I wanted to prove
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: first my own proof and then if I did decide
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: to get a divorce, then I would have, you know,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: this evidence that of multiple affairs and I could, I
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: could take it before the court and get full custody.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: This is what was going on in my mind, and
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I needed I just needed to know what was happening
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: so I could make the decision for my future.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Right, So you got a nanny cam. It's sort of
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: like a hidden camera and us and yeah, and you
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: set it up in bed. Yeah, And then it was
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: sort of like what wait and see kind of a thing.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: And I would check it, you know, once a week,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: once every two weeks, something. Whenever I got the opportunity,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: I would check it. And somewhere in the summertime of
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: twenty ten is when I saw that she had brought
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: a man into the house. Now this was a motion
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: activated still photo camera. It wasn't a video recording type
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: of camera. It just took photos. And I took that
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: and confronted her with it, and of course she was
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: denying it. And she didn't know obviously that I didn't
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: tell her that I had a hidden camera. I just said, hey,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: are you still having an affair? Are you talking to anybody?
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: What's going on? She denied it the whole time, and
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: then she started leaving, I'm going to the grocery store,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: but instead the grocery store was you know, a couple miles.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: She would be gone for three hours, you know, And
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: at that time, I didn't have any tracking type find
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: my phone type applications, you know, technology.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: So I was.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Just rolling with it, trying to trying my best to
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: be a father and a better husband, and it just
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: didn't work out, and she eventually filed for divorce. I
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: believe it was in September of twenty ten, and we
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: moved forward with divorce and I moved out.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: So she got caught, and then she filed for divorce. Correct,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: So she initiated. And when she got caught, what was
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: what were you hoping for in terms of like an outcome?
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Were you just hoping that she would just be like, yeah,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: that's me, I did it. I'm sorry, you know, and
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: then I'm gonna I'm gonna change or whatever, or like,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm just curious, like what what because
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: I can already see where this is going, just based
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: on how she took initiative to file after this, because
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know, if you know what I mean, yeah.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. So. I was kind of taken taken
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: back when when she told me she wanted to get
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: a divorce, and I, I guess, I guess you could
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: say I was still fighting for the marriage. I was
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: still of the belief and I loved her that much
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: that I that we could we could still figure this out.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: There's something that wasn't right, whether it was me or
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: whether it was her, something wasn't right that we needed
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: to fix. And if we could just fix that and
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: come back together, then then we could make this work.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: And and I, I'll be honest with you, I see
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: things a little bit different now. Staying together in a
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: marriage for children was not my mindset at that time.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: I was more concerned about what I wanted, and I
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: wanted to be with her. I wanted my life. I
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: wanted my family whole and together. I wasn't thinking I
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: need to save this it's the best thing for my children.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: I mean that that was part of it, but that
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: wasn't the main main thought going through my mind. I
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: I would I was devastated. I I love that woman.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: I just I think that for her and and looking
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: back and going through all the counseling sessions and talking
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: to my mom, and my mom knew her really well. Uh,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: she was very selfish and self centered person, and I
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: believe that played a large part as to why she
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: was doing what she was doing, because it was it
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: was she was all about her and what she wanted
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: in life. And was she a good mom? Yes, was
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: she a good wife mostly?
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: But head down there now that I can see back
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: back in time and I can look back at at
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: at at the chain of events and and and our
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: whole twelve years of being together.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: She was very very selfish human being. And it was
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: and you know I was. I was too, obviously we
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: all are to some extent, you know, And and then
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: it takes time for us to mature as we as
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: we get older, and we realized it, you know, we
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: need to do things different and put others before ourselves.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: But but I think she was a little farther along
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: in the in the self centeredness than than most people
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: are at that time in their lives.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: So yeah, all right, so what happened next? Like, so
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: you she filed for divorce. I want to get to
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: the part where, well, why we're here? So what so
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: what happened? Next.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: So when when she threw threw that on me, is
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: when I confronted her about what I had.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay, your evidence.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Right, yes? And this guy.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: You said it was a gentleman. It wasn't the same guy.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: This is like a different.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Guy, different guy. Okay, all right, And it's still in
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: her same unit. They were all in the same unit.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: And run somebody's unit.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to piggyback on that one, I
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: will piggyback.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: And and you know what, I've been listening sitting on
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: my hands. Mike is amazing. He's so he's so kind
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: to where I put her in the bad wife category
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: because not only does she have the one, she has
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: the second one, and he's on deployment. He is, you know,
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: risking his life. He can't do the mission. He's a
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: danger to himself and his unit. And then she puts
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: him up for a peeping tom violation. Right, She basically
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: mischaracterizes why she put why the videos there. She says
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: that he did it for sexual gratification, and they know
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: she's had the affairs. So so I put her in
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: the bad wife category. Micah, you know because of.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: That, right, Sure, we're not to that point yet, but yes,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: I wanted.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: I was sitting here, you know, Okay, yeah, we're going
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: to get there.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: We're getting there.
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: So uh.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: So I confront her about this person, and she's just
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: done at this point. She's ready to move forward with
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: this guy and get a divorce. And I had no
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: choice but to just do it. So we get the divorce,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: and in Alaska it doesn't take a lot to get
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: a divorce. You file paperwork and within thirty days you
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: have a letter in the mail from the judge saying
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: you are divorced. Congratulations, move forward, press on with life.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: So the child custody stuff when we had submitted a
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: parenting plan and we both lived in the same area,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: within five miles of each other. So in Alaska they
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: were very gracious with the child custody. We had fifty
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: to fifty everything, kids went back and forth all the time,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: everything was gravy, so on and so forth. However, I
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: deployed again in twenty twelve, and I got orders to
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Texas while on this deployment. So I'm like, okay, well,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to Texas without my children. I want
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: full custody. I don't believe Holly having an affair in
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: the house with in front of my children while their
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: father is out of the country. To me, that's just
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: terrible parenting. I would never do anything like that, and
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: so I was of the mindset, I'm going to use this,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: the fact that I caught her having an affair and
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: this is the second affair, I'm going to use that
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: in court in our custody battle to get full custody
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: of my children. And that's I signed an affidavit. And
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: on that affidavit it was a very simple sentence, I
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: caught my ex wife cheating on me with a hidden camera. Signed.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: That is what I got convicted of was an indecent
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: recording under the one twenty Charlie charge. Whatever is that artist,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: You'll have to help me out with the terminology.
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: Right, So one twenty is a catch all article one
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: twenty and then there's A, A, B and C. So basically
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: the way I explained it is it's the peeping tom statue.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: So if someone were to put a camera inside of
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: a women's restaurant, for instance, or a shower. So it's
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: all about intent though, Brian, so it's the military news
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: she had had multiple affairs. She admitted it, right so
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: they went to court arguing that his intention for putting
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: the camera there with sexual gratification when they knew that
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: was not true.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Right, And this is we're talking about the military courts.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, still, yeah, skipped had a little bit.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, it's okay.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: So that child custody battle happened in twenty twelve in
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: the state of Alaska. I eventually lost that custody battle.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: She got full custody because I would be in Texas
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: and she was staying in Alaska, and they thought it
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: was in the best interest of the children to stay
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: with their mother, like most courts do. So I moved
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: to Texas, and then about a year later, my ex
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: wife and her new husband, of whom the same guy
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: she was having an affair with, moved to Utah. And
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: then we had to go adjust our visitation with the
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: courts based on that. And so then my children would
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: visit me during the summers down in Texas, which was perfect, fine,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: you know, it was great, We had a great time. Well,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: during a twenty fourteen visitation, my children informed me that
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: they wanted to move to Texas to be with me
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: and my new Beyonce Erica, And I was like, Okay, great,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: just when you get back home, talk to your mom
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: about it, and let's let's start the conversation and see
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: if we can't work it out. Well, they were like, well,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: we're we don't want to talk to her about it.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: We want you to. We're scared she gets mad.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: And how old were the kids at this point to
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: kill This was.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: In twenty fourteen, So I had a thirteen year old,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: a twelve year old, and a ten year old. Okay,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: and they're old enough to kind of know at that point.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: In the courts somewhere around the age of between ten
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: and eleven. Twelve times they the courts will listen to
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: a child's testimony and sometimes let them make the decision
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: of which parent they want to live with. Well, since
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: they were scared, I was like, okay, well, let's just
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: write a letter to her and while you're here, and
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: then you can take it home with you, and then
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: when you go to school, you can just set it
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: on the kitchen counter for her to see it and
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: read it, and then let her read it. And then
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: you guys, let her cool down during the day while
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: you're at school, and then when you get home from school,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: maybe then you can talk about it. So that's what
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: they did. Well, my two older daughters did. My son,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: ten year old, he didn't really want to write anything.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: He said, let me just ride this way with my
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: sisters and we'll see what happens. So well, my wife,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: my ex wife, got mad, obviously, yelled and screamed at him,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: tore the letters up, threw him in the trash, and
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: then and the next day took them shopping bottom all
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: brand new snowboards and all kinds of stuff, and convinced
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: them to stay in Utah with her. And then a
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: year later, I am brought up on charges for indecent
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: recording and eventually convicted.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: And so how going, Let's let's get to the case then. Okay,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: so indecent recording. I've seen some things going around where,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: you know, this kind of stuff would fall under the
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: category of what people call revenge porn, you know, if
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: you know what that is. It's more like an internet thing,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: but it's essentially sort of like, you know, let's say
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: you are you know, you you're a girl, you're a
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: young lady, and you put your you know, sexual content
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: online and then somebody shares it even though it's online,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: and so you know there's a gray area there because
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: if it's on the internet, then it's on the internet.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: But there are ways that these people would like like that.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: People who feel that they're victims of this, will, you know,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: exploit the system? Yeah, go ahead arvest. What were we
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: going to say?
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: And I'm familiar with that that statute what I want
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: to say in MICA's case, though he didn't share it
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: with anyone, right, And again, what most people don't realize
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: is that the law is intent. So she knew what
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: she had done, she knew why, and she even admitted
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: in court. So she's she's called to testify, but the
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: military won't let the jury hear that she's having an affair,
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: so he can't introduce that as evidence. They excuse them out.
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: And she admits she's having an affair, and oh yeah,
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: you know what the guy does. He says they weren't.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: So one of them perjured themselves in a military court
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: and the other admitted to a What I want your
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: audience to realize is the military can send you to
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: jail and give you a dishonorable discharge for adultrait, but
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: if you're a victim of sexual assault, then all is forgiven.
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: So what some people do is they use it as
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: a get out of jail free card, so they know
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: they could be prosecuted, and so they will charge someone else,
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: and once they're designated a victim, true or not, all
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: of their sins are forgiven, so to speak. And so
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: again going back, the prosecutor knew she had an affair,
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: she admitted it had those multiple affairs. The court knew,
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: but the jury did not, and so they argued a
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: they argued a story that they knew wasn't true. They go, hey,
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: he did this for sexual gratification, right, and he was
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: not allowed to defend him. So and say, no, my
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: wife was having an affair and they knew that information,
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: and then they took that to send this man to jail,
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: give him a bad discharge, and then now he's on
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: the sex offender registry for the rest of his life.
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: I want you to find a person living in this
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: country who believes that that's fair, that that's justice, because
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: in no justice that I've ever been a part of
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: is it. And I just want to draw attention to
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: the pressure the military was on Senator Gillibrand and others
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: to get a conviction in a case like that right.
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: They knew the evidence pointed to something different, but they
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: put it aside and said, no, he was doing this
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: for sexual gratification, so not revenge porn, not peeping Tom.
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: His wife was having multiple affairs. He had gotten information,
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: and again they knew it. Brian, That's the thing. It's
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: one thing not to know, right, it's to argue. It's
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: to argue a story without knowing the truth. But when
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: you know the truth, you know what she was doing,
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: and you do that, you make her her and him
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: her ex hus her new husband the victim. They get
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: the a benefits, they get forgiven of any they call
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: it collateral misconduct that they've done, and they help them
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: with job, employment and things like that post military. And
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: then contrast that to what that does. Micah is the victim,
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: and in every county in this country, Micah Carroll is
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: the victim. And you have to ask your skull. If
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: the American people can't trust the military to be fair
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: with their sons, then how can they keep you safe?
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: Three questions to explain that. If the best and brightest,
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: and I'm talking about on the men's side, if they
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: know that they won't be treated fairly, will they join,
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: I say no. Second question, if the best and brightest
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: who are in, because some are going to join, they
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: if they join and find out they won't be treated fairly,
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: will they stay in? I say no. And then last
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: question it's if the best and brightest won't join, and
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: the best and brightest will leave when they find out
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: they've been they won't be treated fairly. Who will be
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: left to defend you? And do you feel safe now?
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Speaking of evidence, Brian, I was convicted with the
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: only piece of evidence being my signed affidavit. They confiscated
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: my laptops, my phones, everything, They looked everywhere, tried to
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: find anything else to convict me of and to throw
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: me away forever, or to find this video or find
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: evidence that I had distributed this picture of my wife
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: with another man, which, by the way, they were fully clothed.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: They were I never had a picture of them without
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: any clothes on. By the way, that's another key piece
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: of information in this I got convicted of a sexual
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: crime when there was zero sexual activity and there was
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: zero evidence of anything. They convicted me based on an
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: affidavit of me saying I caught my wife cheating on
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: me with a hidden camera that's it.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: That's insane. Like that, I mean like it, that is insane.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: And it seems to me just another example of essentially
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: the in this case, the military, they just want this
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: to go away, so they just like you know, and
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: they don't want to look bad, right, They don't want
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: to be a stain on them, so they throw you
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: under the bus, essentially, and they just they just go
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: through the case as quickly as possible. Did you well?
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Real quick? Before I continue, I want to ask people,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: if you're watching, send us a super chat or a
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: super chow if you have a question or statement for
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: our guests, Michael Carroll, Micah Carroll or Arvis Owens. Appreciate it, guys,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: and thank you for joining the call or this show.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: So did you so what happened next? Did you? Oh? Arvis,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: do you want to say something? Go ahead.
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: I want to add to that, because not only what
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: the military did to Michaeh was horrendous, They've done it
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: to thousands of other men just like Micah. I want
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: to say that. And then the second thing, and I'll
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: be quiet for a little bit, is that what's terrible
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: on top of that is Micah still lives in the
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: State of Texas. He applied to be removed from the
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: registry based on how he was convicted, and I don't
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: want to put words in their mouth, but the gist
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: of it was they said, uh, yeah, we don't believe
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: you deserve to be on, but we're going to keep
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: you on as a courtesy to the military. So that's
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: how even worse this thing goes, is that people outside
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: of the military know how wrong it is and they
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: allow the injustice to get worse.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: I have a very good relationship with the sheriff in
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: my accounting and most of the people that work under him,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: because I have to go there multiple times a year
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: to renew paperwork, to renew driver's license, so on and
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: so forth, and they are all on my side. They
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: actually helped me write my packet to the Department of
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Public Safety in the State of Texas to remove me
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: from the registry because they believed based on all the
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: information and the sheriff department was given my part of
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: my record of trial, you know, the conviction sheet and
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: all that stuff, and the exact words Harvist were from.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: The response from the Department of Public Safety in the
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: State of Texas was we are going to honor the
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Air Force's decision. We are not in a position to
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: overturn any decision made in a military court of law
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: which is blowny right. They do have the power and
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: they are in the position to say, hey, this isn't right.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: This person is now a civilian living in the State
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: of Texas. Under our purview, we do have the authority
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: to remove Micah from the registry, but they didn't want
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: to admit that for whatever reason. It's like, it's like
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: any case and artist you can attest to this, any
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: case that involves sexual misconduct. Very few people in leadership
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: positions want to step up and do the right thing
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: to help men as myself that have been in this
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: position that are being railroaded by the system. It's a
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: very sad story.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: So I just want to say this to further support
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: what Mike is saying, is not only do we know
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: that the State of Texas could do this, we have
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: another young man who lives in the same city, was
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: in the same service, was also falsely accused, and the
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: State of Texas removed him from the registry. So I
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: know they could. The State of Virginia removed me when
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: they investigated my case and said, wait a minute, and
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: again I still have the conviction. Because what the military
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: does is not only do you get convicted, you get
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: something called titled. And I want your listeners to understand,
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: even if they were to take a Chapter ten where
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: they were administratively separated, or if they go to non
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: judicial punishment we call that Article fifteen, they will still
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: put something in your record to make you titled, which
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: looks like you were convicted. So we have men who
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: were found not guilty in court, they still can't find
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: employment because they're title and it looks like they were convicted.
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: They can't buy a firearm, they can't join police departments,
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: they can't work with children, they can't sponsor a foreign
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: spouse to be a US citizen. There are so many
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: different things that they do. And again they know, they know, yeah.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: And I know they didn't review my case the Department
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: of Public Safety, because about two to three hours after
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: I sent my package to the DPS, I got a response.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: There's no way they could have reviewed the case and
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: made a decision in that time. I think it's a
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: matter of who you get when you get them, and
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: what kind of mood they're in, whether they're willing to
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: even do their job or not.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So so what happened? What happened next?
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: I want to get to the conviction and how fast
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: that moved, what the standards were of evidence, and if
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: you like, made an appeal, if you've been fighting back
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: you if you gave up, that kind of thing.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: So I don't remember the exact number of days the
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: court martial lasted. I believe it was five maybe six days.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Seemed like a long long trial. I was convicted of
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: nine nine months or sentenced to nine months incarceration and
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: required to register on the sex offender registry and reduced
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: in rank to senior airman and given a bad conduct discharge,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: not dishonorable. Bad conduct is the next step up. Not
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: that that matters too much. The repercussions are about the same.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: But so I was incarcerated in San Antonio on Lackland
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Air Force Base, and they're small little jail for about
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: two months, and then they transferred me to California, where
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I spent the next five months. I was released. I
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: was sentenced to nine months. I was released at seven months.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Got back to Texas in on January sixth of twenty
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: seventeen and I had seventy two hours I think they
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: gave me or was it forty eight, I don't remember.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: But I had to report to the Sheriff's office within
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: a couple of days or there would be a warrant
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: out for my arrest. And I was in a I
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: had no career, I didn't have no job. I wasn't
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: waking up and putting the uniform on anymore. I was
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: severely depressed, spending fifteen sixteen seventeen hours in dead every day.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: My current wife was not happy about that. She was
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: concerned but also irritated at the same time because I
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: was just a blob in her house.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: And so this was the woman after the woman you divorced, Okay.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: All right, And it was just it was a very
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: difficult struggle for me for a good year before I
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: finally started coming around, working, having social life again, doing
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: things that I love, like hunting, fishing, golfing. It took
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: a good year before I was able to hop back
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: up and start acting like a human being again. I
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: don't remember when Arvests reached out. I'm not sure when
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: that was harvest to you.
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: We like two thousand and twenty or twenty and twenty one.
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: I think was early twenty twenty one or late twenty twenty.
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: And I want to draw your attention to one thing.
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure it applies in your case, Mike. I
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: vaguely recall that it did, but Brian, in a lot
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: of these cases, the jury members we call them a
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: panel in the military, have been so disgusted that they've
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: actually come to some of us to say, look, we
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: had to do it based on what the judge did here,
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: and Micah, can you speak to that? Was that. What
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: I can't recall if yours was one of those.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, they didn't. Some of my panel Menambers didn't
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: go to you. I actually was going to a church
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: on the west side of San Antonio, and it just
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: so happened that one of the panel members, who used
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: to also be somewhere in my chain of command. I
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: don't remember, I remember who he was, he approached me
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: at church and said, I want you to know that
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: our hands were tied. We were told that we had
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: to convict, and we gave you the lowest possible conviction
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: and sentence that we could based on the information that
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: we had, and if it was up to them, they
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: would have set me free, but they were. They were
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: basically required to get a conviction. Oh.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, it sounds like some top
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: down stuff was going on, and the you said, the panel.
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: The jury, yeah, Jurymber Yeah.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: The jury member was telling you that this is from
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: on high, we have to do this, and we're sorry
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: about it. Okay, I just wanted to get I mean,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: I'm it pisses me off, but I'm not gonna rant
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: about it because I'm obviously not the person affected. But
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: this is clearly an injustice and part of me is like, well,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: why don't you also step up and like make some
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: noise about this, But I'm not gonna do that. So anyway,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: you were going to say arvist before I interrupted.
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: So I was going to say, so, I want your
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: listeners and people watching this wherever they are to consider this.
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: How would you ever trust the military again with your
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: son if you knew with one? Certainly, I want you
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: to imagine that from top down, they looked almost like
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: a quota system to get convictions on men regardless of
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: what the evidence showed. And I want to back that
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: up a little bit. It's there was pressure. Senator Kristen
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: Gillibrand of New York. She took Hillary Clinton, see she
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: formed a coalition to change the rules. And let me
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: just describe a little bit of what that looked like.
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: If a commander, think admiral, general, senior officer, did not
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: send a case to court martial in the military, it
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: got reviewed by the t jag, the head jacks. So
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: you'll notice President Trump just fired the t jags in
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: the services for review if you didn't send it. And
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: then also on the Senate Armed Services Committee, if if
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: you're a commander going up for promotion, they reviewed your
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: record right kind of like lebron and saw what your
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: record was on just sex assaults to see whether you
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: got promoted or not, and they would pull you from
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: the list without saying who did it if you didn't
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: do the right thing, as well as some of these
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: commanders got fired. And I want you to consider what
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: that does to the rank and file, what that does
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: to the force, and at every single level they did.
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: A lot of people know what happened on university campus
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: with your colleague letter, but they don't know what happened
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: in the military. And this last point I'll make before
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: I'm quiet again, is something called probable cause. Now most
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: people don't realize it, but you need probable calls for
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: the police to stop you, you need probable cause for
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: them to arrest you. You certainly need probable cause to
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: go to court. The military is the only entity in
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: the United States that can send a case to court
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: without probable cause. We have a report we can share
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: it where this one year, forty percent of the cases
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: went forward without probable cause. It was supposed to be
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: changed in this NDAA that for starting at twenty twenty five,
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: and someone removed it. You don't have unanimous juries. The
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: commander gets to pick was picking the pool of people
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: you choose from. And then on top of that, you
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: could be sent to court martial without problem cause, and
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: then if you're found not guilty, they can do a
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: board of inquiry. They get multiple bites at the apple,
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: and your accuser gets paid, gets employment opportunities post military,
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: they get VA benefits and guess what, they typically get
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: custody of children and houses, et cetera. And all of
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: their activity is forgiven any time. And I say that
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: point because victims' advocates will say there is no there
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: is no perfect victim. But yet they want the accused
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: to be perfect for him to get justice, and that
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: is such a disappointing thing. Is the difference between us
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: and those groups is we are and and they are
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: or let me explain. We believe you can support true
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: victims and support people who've been falsely accused and wrongly convicted.
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: They believe it's one or the other, and that to me,
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: he sends me at a level. And we see things
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: like the Johnny Depp situation. We see it now with
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. You see people when it's
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: a celebrity, they want to come and says, we support you.
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: We've seen the evidence. Who does that? For the military,
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: you want them to keep you safe, but who keeps
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: them safe?
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm, Well said, I wanted to say, you know,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: with with regards to all of the ways in which
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: victims are let's say serviced by the military, it sounds
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: like they're incentivized to do this stuff. I mean when
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: you think about it. So I'm wondering, do you know
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: if this is like common knowledge like that, you know,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: if if your ex wife knew that if she went
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: once you came forward and you and you confronted her
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: about this. Is it possible that either A she knew,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Oh well, now I can. You know, I can come
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: after him for these things, and I'm gonna get It's
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: like I can't lose, right like I I will either
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: you know, it'll either be thrown out, in which case
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: nobody's penalized, or I will win and I'll get all
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: of this stuff and the kids, and you know, I
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: don't have to look like a bad person for cheating
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: on my husband. So it's it's like this saying. You
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: know that that that I always say is that you know,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: if you want bad behavior, you just incentivize bad behavior
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: and you'll get it. And that's and that's what usually happens.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: Like why the divorce courts, you know, whether you're talking
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: about real courts or you're talking about kangaroo courts and
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: the military and on college campuses, whatever, it's it's almost
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: all the same framework. It's the same foundations and all
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: of them, which is essentially, you know, if the man
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: is accused, we're just gonna believe victims and that and
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: that's just what that's just the reality because it comes
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: from a feminist academic background, that's why, you know, and
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: I think that it's one of these things too. When
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: the people like Jillibrand they're saying, we have to get
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: convictions because data. I mean, I always bring this up,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: but it's always worth bringing up and reminding people of
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: the reason why is because of these merry cost studies
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: that were done back in the day that were printed
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: in miss magazine and these other you know, like other
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: publications that were essentially supported by three letter organizations like
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: the CIA that was essentially saying, you know, one in
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: three or one in four women will be sexually assault
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: in their lifetime. And I know that this isn't even
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: your case, which is even wilder because it's not like
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: any harm was done, but the same mindset is there.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: It's this they we have to get convictions because we
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: are told this happens a lot, and we're not seeing
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: convictions that map that match up with, you know, like
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: what is actually happening in reality. Therefore we have to
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: convict more so that it looks more like this, you know,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: these studies, and unfortunately, innocent men and it is men
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: generally are the ones that are you know, hurt by this,
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: and it's just to maintain this illusion, which is of
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: like this idea of an oppressive patriarchal system, Like we
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: have to understand that all of this comes from a
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: cult like almost religious conviction to these ideas, and real
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: people are harmed by this, but that's where it comes from,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: and that's what has to be sort of like debunked. Right,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: So Arvist, you were gonna say.
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: Two things real quick, Brian. One, I love your point,
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: and I was gonna mention the word victim itself. Is
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: one of my biggest things is that even before any
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: evidence has been looked at, they give them the label
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: of victim instead of accuser. That's one, and then number
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: two to your point about the statistics they do surveys
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: without telling you the assumptions they took to get the numbers,
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: and I'll prove it to you. Years ago they would
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: say only two percent of sexual are false allegations. So
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: in some things I looked into, it was, well, how
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: did they get two percent? And in some of those studies,
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: the accuser had to admit that they lied in order
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: and if the evidence showed they were false accusers, that
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: was deemed inconclusive. So at first they said two percent,
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: they anchored you to that number. Then they said two
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: to five percent, but they still anchored you to two.
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: Then they said two to eight, and now they're saying
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: two to ten. And so to your point, you're right.
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: They will use those surveys, those small surveys, without telling
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: you how they got the number. And most people never
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: answer the question. They take it at face value, and
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: you end up with cases like MICUs and the thousands
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: of other men in the military that this has happened to.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, So I want to ask if you are look, Micah,
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: I'm I think this is absolutely a horrible injustice has happened. I'm,
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of seething about it, but I'm gonna
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: try to be productive. So instead of ranting about this
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: because I know ideologically, I know where this comes from,
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: and that's what has to change. And unfortunately, we're trying
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: to like essentially disentangle a rats nest that is probably
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: older than we are, like it's probably existed since before
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: we were born. But but I think that the more
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: we talk about these things, which is like my my
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: primary goal is to just encourage these conversations, the closer
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: we could get to untangling it. But what I want
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: to ask you guys, both of you you just mentioned
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: because this is all who like this stuff that's happening.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: It's a holdover from previous administrations in terms of like
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: that effect. Do you are you at all optimistic now
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: that we have a change in you know, like who's
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: running things in particular. I don't know if if it's
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Pete Hegseth that would be like the guy when it
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: comes to this, But do you because because the thing is, okay,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: this obstacle, this is like really gonna be tricky. Okay.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: What people have to be able to do, and this
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: is hard, no matter where you stand politically, for most people,
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: is to be able to see that women are capable
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: of doing evil like that that like that it's they're
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: that they're capable of doing it, okay, and and that
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: they're not only that, but that there are systems in
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: place that encourage them to do it and tell them
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: they are right for using these systems because they are
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: you know, born into a say, a position of victimhood,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: and that that men at any point, as a collective
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: will you know, oppress them again. And this is something
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: that is embedded into us every single day constantly, from
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: from the moment we're born, like it's it's everywhere, right,
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: it's ubiquitous. Like if you said and you know, you know,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: women can be evil too, sometimes people would be like
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: what you know, Like, I mean, I know it sounds wild,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: but so like, for example, I think that where this
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: is birth from in terms of like the actual like
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: say policy things that are written down. Okay, it's an
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: attitude that we have to change up here. But but
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: there are some like say administrative or legal things that
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: we can at least talk about. Some movements. For example,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: the Violence Against Women Act is like where that is
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: an ideological piece of like magic essentially because violence is
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: already illegal, so why do we have an act that's
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: like specifically for women? And that's where these things are exploited, right,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: And the problem is is that if you criticize that,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: people's reaction will be you know, oh, you're for being
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: violent to women. And it's like, no, I think that
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: there's injustice baked into this because it treats this group
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: of people as a special class, right while claiming that
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: they are underserved at the same time. So okay, let
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: me back up because I just rant it a bit,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: But what do you think about the current you know,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: like Trump is back in office. He seems to mean business.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: It looks like it's a different, different vibe than what
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: it was in twenty sixteen. Uh, he's going in hard
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: for a number of reasons. He's got good people on
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: this team that look like they have a particular focus.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: So are you firstly, are you at all optimistic? Secondly,
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: do you have any intentions to like, you know, be
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: involved like with those people? So whoever wants to talk
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: you go first?
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all go first, irist, because I know that you've
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: got a lot more to say on this than I do.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: I will tell you that Trump doesn't seem like he
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: means business. He does mean business, and he meant business
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: his first term, and now I believe, based on how
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: he was treated during that term and after that term
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: and during this past election, he means even more business
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: than he did the first time around. And And am
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: I optimistic that that this administration is going to help
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: us more so by a long shot than the past administration?
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: For sure? Do I think we're going to get help?
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, it's just you just never
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: know what's going to happen. I mean, you know, regardless
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: why this particular campaign of ours and artists. I'm sure
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: you can. You can back me up on This is
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: so difficult is because we we have to take you know,
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: regardless of who you are, where you live, what kind
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: of position you're in in your career, and so on
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: and so forth, are our duty is to ourselves and
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: our families. And we have to take care of ourselves
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: and our families first before we before we take care
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: of other people. If we put always put other people first,
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: and and and and and put our career up there
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: for people to bat around, then it's gonna get batted around.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: And I think these politicians and these lawyers are don't
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: want to put their careers on the line to step
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: up and and help those that are quote unquote criminals
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: with sexual bad conduct, stigma on on their on their
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: on their on their their mind. So it's it's it's
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: very difficult to say whether we're going to get help
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: or not, because there's not too many people that are
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: willing to put their lives and their families and their
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: careers on the line for people such as us. However,
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: I believe in Donald Trump. I believe in he doesn't
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: have to be president, he doesn't have to do anything.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: He could play golf every day for the rest of
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: his life if he wanted to, but he's not is
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: He's trying to change this country for the beat. I
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: believe in him one and I think if anybody is
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: going to help us, it's going to be him and
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: his administration. Harvest.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: Okay, thank you, great responses. There's three points I want
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: to make to kind of support you. So, first question,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: do I believe that Secretary of Defense Hex Seth and
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: President Donald Trump more likely to help us in others?
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: I do. I just believe with what they've shown so far,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: they're more likely to understand what happened and be willing
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: to come forward because, like I said, they have experience
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: in it. Second thing I will say, and maybe four
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: things instead of three I miscounted, is that the hard
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: part for them will be the American people have to
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: be educated that this happened. I mean, so the hard
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: part for them is to do it without first ensuring
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: the American people educated to know what happened. And that's
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: a challenge because again I'll ask your audience, how can
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: you trust the military again if you know that's happening.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: So it's an all volunteer force. So if it's an
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 4: all volunteer force and you know they're doing things like this,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: are you going to let your son join? Or how
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: could you? And we don't advocate for people not to join.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: We say, ask the recruiter, what are you doing for
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: false allegations and wrongful convictions? How easy is it to
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: get sharp? So educating the people. Another thing is that
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: women have to say enough. Women have to say we believe,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: you know, true people who have been assaulted, but we
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: also know that there are some people who make false
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: allegations and they should be punished too. And I'll parallel
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: that with Title nine. So it was we remember all
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: the changes to Title nine by the previous administration, and
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: then there was one change where women said enough and
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: then it reverted back. You guys know what that, Shane was.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: It was transgender athletes playing sport. So they were okay
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: when you took away the due process from men, right,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: So they were okay with all of the other changes,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: but when they did that, when they said enough, and
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: it changed right. And then the last thing I will
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: say too is you said it earlier, Brian, that it
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: takes a mental shift to understand this, Like what happened,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: and so that that is what I am most hesitant about,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: is people people understanding and so using the military as
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: a guide. On the one hand, they don't want to
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: admit this, right, it's it's impossibly hard for them to
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: admit this because then it would hurt the all volunteer force.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: And if it hurts the all volunteer force, you have
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: to draft and then tell me which politician wants to
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: put their name on it. So, yes, I believe the
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth are more likely than anyone
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: to do something positive for us. It will be hard,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: I think, even for them, because you have to educate
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: the people or they'll just attack him for it. They'll
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: attack Secretary of Hegseth and say why are you doing
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: this because they don't know what happened. And again women
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: have to say enough, we don't support false allegations. We
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: don't want to be associated with people who make false allegations.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: I personally believe those who make false allegations would be
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: put on the registreet. They should be punished and sent
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: to prison for all of the time that the person
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: was So I know that was a long answer to
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: your question, and I hope the answer came and was
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: clear to your audience.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And I agree with all of that. I
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: think that again it comes down to incentives. You know,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: if we incentivize bad behavior, we're gonna get bad behavior.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: So we should be very careful about that. And and
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: I again, we're trying to undo a lot of programming,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: so it's not going to happen overnight.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: I do.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: I do believe that it's a really simple thing. Right. So,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: the Trump administration believes that we need to have a
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: strong military, and they're trying to make the military strong, right,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: They're not making it another It's just like a at
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: least been the last administration. It seemed to be just
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: another avenue to get free you know, transgender health care
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: or whatever. And that's why people were joining, because they
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: wanted the free stuff. And this is not what it's
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: supposed to be.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: If there's one thing a country has to have, it's
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: a military to protect the people, right. So, and there
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: are plenty of men that want to fight for the country,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: but they don't like the way that they're being treated
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: by the country as it stands. And you can look
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: at other countries for example, you know, I just covered
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: in a news story yesterday where you know, we have
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: this stuff going on with Ukraine and in Russia, and
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: Kiir Starmer, the Prime Minister of England or Britain, is like, well,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: we're ready, We're prepared to put boots on the ground
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: and and planes in the air, right and and it's like, yeah,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: but what have you how have you been treating like
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: the men of your country? They're not going to want
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: to fight for you, right and and so like this
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: is it's obviously when you attack men in the abstract constantly,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: you demoralize them. They're not going to want to fight
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: for your country. I mean, you know the United States,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: in the US, at least the majority of of you know,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: men who joined the military tend to be Christians, you know,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: they tend to be white, and they tend to be
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: from rural areas. They that's where the patriotism is at
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: for the most part. And those are that that's the
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: group that's the was getting the most attacked, like over
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: the course of the last what decade or so, So
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: when then when we ended up in a situation where
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: we might go to war, it's like, oh, look, you
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: know October seventh, happened, and it's like, what, we need
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: to send guys to Israel or whatever to Gaza, and
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: all the men were like, hell no. And they even
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: changed the advertising to match that. I don't know if
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: you remember, but there was like, you know, advertising for
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: the army for example. I think they had like this
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: animated thing where it was about a girl and her
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: two mothers and it was like a you know, a
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: pride thing and she wanted to join the military, and
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: it was all very like weird and woke. And then
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: when we were actually on the cusp of war, all
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, it was like white dudes jumping out
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: of helicopters and it was like super masculine. Right, So
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: obviously they know that men, you you you need men
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: to be in your military. You need a masculine minitary.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: It's just the facts. I'm sorry, it's just his right.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: And in order for them to have a strong military,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: they're gonna have to like respond to that. They're gonna
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: have to essentially try to create a sense that, you know,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: men who want to fight for this country deserve to
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: be treated like human beings, like with all the respect
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: and all that that that that comes with, and I mean,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm fairly certain that Trump and Hext understand that.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: So I want to get your comments on your reaction
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: to something else because I think that we in we
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: talk a lot in today's world about lots of things
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: going on in the world, lots of things dealing with
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: you know, politics and geopolitics and race and sexuality and
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: all that. I firmly believe that everything that we're talking
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: about boils down to the relationship between men and women.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: That's it, That's where it starts from. That's the genesis,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: as it were, Okay, And if we don't address that,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: then none of the other stuff matters, Like none of
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: the other stuff matters. And so and that means that
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: we have to address men's issues and as as early
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: as birth really and like looking at them as people
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: that have their unique perspective, their unique way of living
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: in the world, their unique way of affecting the world.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: Like the masculine energy is all but you know, gone
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: because it's being suppressed so hard because it's seen as evil.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: But JD. Vance spoke at Sea Pack recently on February twentieth.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: Did you go to that at Arvest? Did you go
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: to Seapack in this year February.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: Ten, I did not. I had another obligation. I did
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 4: have a couple of people I know who did go okay.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: Because I know you and I talked about Seapack, like
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: when we met up for lunch that one time. But okay.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: So in Maryland he said the war on men is
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: absolutely over. And this comment made during a speech was
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: highlighted in posts found on x all over February and
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: they thought it was a very significant message that and
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: a conservative outlet called Conservative HQ reported Van saying, quote,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: I think that our culture sends a message to young
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: men that you should suppress every masculine urge. You should
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: try to cast aside your family, You should try to
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: suppress what makes you a young man in the first place.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: And I think that my message to young men is
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: don't allow this broken culture to send you a message
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: that you're a bad person because you're a man, because
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: you like to tell a joke, because you like to
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: have a beer with your friends, or because you are competitive.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: End quote. So I think this is significant because for
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: a long time, I've been doing this for ten years.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: For a long time, nobody in the political space would
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: even like approach talking about men in a way that
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: is supportive or even sympathetic, because it just wasn't good
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: for their career as politicians, like, appealing to women is
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: how you get votes. That's just the reality. Most of them,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: they're more likely to vote. There's more of them, so
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: you know, appeal to them. And for some reason, people
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: got this idea that appealing to women means tearing down
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: men so or not talking about them at all, even
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: though there are women who have sons and you know whatever.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: And then I think Josh Hawley, he did a speech
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: a few years ago where he basically went on and
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: on about men, and I was like seeing this. You know,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: I remember even Trump at one point in his first
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: term he said men have a lot of problems and
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: we should be like talking about this more. And I
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: thought that was great because it meant that that people
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: are starting to like find their spines and say something
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: because this is extremely important. So what do you think
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: about JD Vance's words there? And I know they're just words, but.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: You know, I'll jump in there. So one, it's encouraging
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: what I was thinking about, as you said, it was
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: starting January first, twenty twenty five, it was in the
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: last NBAA. What they did was they criminalized sexual harassment
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 4: in the military that you would serve two years in
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 4: prison and get a dishonorable discharge. So they weren't getting
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: as many sexual assault convictions as they wanted, so they
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: added a sexual harassment clause, and so you could be
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 4: punished for sexual arras if you look at someone for
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 4: too long. I don't know if it's three potatoes or
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 4: four potatoes. If you were to tell a dirty joke
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 4: behind a closed door, let's say, and someone on the
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 4: other side heard that, you didn't know that constitutes sexual harassment,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: and so you're right, I hear what he's saying, and
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: that's very positive. And the action though, to take those
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: laws and rules and really take a hard look at them,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: and then I'll add this piece with it. It's one
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: thing to say we're going to stop doing something and
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 4: another to say we're going to address the people who
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 4: have been impacted. The metaphor I use as an arsonist.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: Imagine an arsonist has burned thousands of homes and then
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 4: they go, Okay, someone talks to them, They're not going
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: to burn any more homes going forward. But do they
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 4: repair the homes that they burn in the past. So
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 4: I think you got to have both of those. That's
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 4: what I would add. And then my last point about
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: why it's healthy to have this conversation about men. We
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: have people inside the military. I'm working on an interview
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: for one now who've shared with us that the suicide
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: rate among men getting these false allegations is going up.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: It's through the roof.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: And so what he is saying is important, and I
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: can't stress enough how women we would like them to
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 4: get on board. Again, we support true victims. We believe that,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 4: you know, one should be sexually assaulted or harassed. But again,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 4: until we get both coming together saying enough, they're never
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 4: going to make that change.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: We've got a long ways to go. It's so bad.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: So look, Brian, I'm a competitive golfer and we have
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: a fairly large tour down here in South Texas that
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: with a lot of competitive golfers, and they're mostly civilians.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: There's a few military that participate, but most of them
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: are civilians. And the thing now is men are are
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: are so scared, even not just military, but civilian men
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: are now so scared to even say say you are
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: first on the scene to a car accident. Men are
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: scared to even help a female that has been injured
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: or is choking or whatever the issue is.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: Daniel Penny.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: They yes, they've They've seen stories and seen other men
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: go to prison for trying to help somebody in distress
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: because they and then the woman turns around and charges
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: them with some type of sexual assault or or harassment
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: or or whatever it ends up being. Uh, it's absolutely ludicrous.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean you're you know, you guys
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: again on point arvisly unmuted. I guess you wanted to
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: say something else to that.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 4: Again, I'll use the Blake live justin Baldoni situation, which
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: people may be aware of in the news. Is my understanding,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: and I could be wrong. Was she alleged sexual harassment
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 4: because he came into her trailer while she was pumping
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 4: breast smoke and he produced text messages and evidence to
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 4: show that she invited him to come to her trailer
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 4: and said, I'm only pumping breast smoke and then when
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: he got to the door of the trailer knocked on
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 4: it to come in, he said are you sure, and
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: he had a witness and she said yes, and that
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: but it's the idea that she feels empowered enough to
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: make that allegation in this environment that we've created, that
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: environment that she feels that I'll get away with this.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 4: I think I'm comfortable. And again we don't know the details.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: I'm speculating, but I'm going by what's what's been out there.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 4: It's look at what he's had to do to respond
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: to this, Look at what Johnny Depp had to do
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 4: to respond to that, And what about all of the
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 4: men who suffer in silence, who don't have the resource
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 4: versus they don't have a fan base. And so it
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 4: is it is amazing to me in a way that
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 4: I can't even explain. Yeah, but it's yeah.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they've they've done studies that show that suggest anyways
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: that false allegations of sexual assault, the psychological harm that
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: does to someone who's falsely accused is on par with
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: someone who's actually been sexually assaulted. Like if you remember
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: when Brett Kavanaugh was up for the Supreme Court and
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: there were people slinging allegations against him and he was weeping.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: I believe at points he was likely very traumatized. It's
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: it's tremendously stressful on the individual and all of their relationships.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine what his kids were going through? Can
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: you imagine what his wife was going through? You know
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: that maybe even got to the point where they were
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: questioning this like this is like not it's not something
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: you play around with, you know.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 4: I was thinking. I was thinking about something Mike has
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: said to where we have men in our group who
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 4: cannot be alone with women they're not related to. You know.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 4: He talked about accidents. They can't date nor do and
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 4: they have trouble dating if they wanted to. Because women,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: what are they to think when they see, Hey, you've
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 4: been convicted of this, and you have to convince them
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 4: you were falsely accused, So so they no longer trust,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: you know, looking saying being around women at all. And
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 4: that's We've had people described to me that they have
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: more PTSD because of that false allegations to your point,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 4: than they do from combat. At least they knew who
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 4: the enemy was in combat, Yeah, right there, and they
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 4: could fire back with this. They cannot fire back.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: I'm one of those people, artists, and Brian, I am
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: one of those people. And uh, the effect that this
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: situation has had on my life outweighs the effects of
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: what I went through in Afghanistan and Iraq e Quate
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: and all the places that I've been. I'm gonna just
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: that stuffs still with me, for sure. I will never forget.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: But when you're away from home, you you you kind
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: of go into those situations thinking, well, I'm doing this
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: away from home, I'm gonna get this done, and then
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go back home to my safe haven, to
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: my refuge, and I'm gonna be safe again. That's not
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: the case anymore. I don't feel safe anymore. And uh,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: I used to be a very generous, generous, and and
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: and helpful guy, and now I have to think before
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: every situation, what's gonna happen to me if I get
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: involved in this situation. Am I putting myself and my
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: family at risk again by getting involved in this situation?
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: And it's sad. It's a sad state that we are in.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, one last question, Mike, are you still in
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: contact with your children?
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: I am not. It's it's a it's a it's a
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: constant struggle. Every year I go wherever they're living, I
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: try to go up and try and find them and
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: contact them and spend time with them. I send emails,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: I send text messages, and at this point in time,
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: I don't even know where they all live. But I'm
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: not giving up. I'm still searching. I'm still paying attention
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: to social media, trying to find my children, trying to
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: keep track of my children, and and I'm not giving
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: up hope. I want to be their father. I love
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: them dearly more than anything in this world, and I
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: just hope and pray that one day we can be
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: reunited and reconcile and put all this behind us.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: Do you think that it's possible that your ex turned
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: your kids against you, or do you think that they
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: might also be trying to find you.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: It is one hundred percent the case that she turned
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: them against me. I did spend some time with my
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: middle child and after all this has happened, and she
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: informed me of a lot of conversations that took place
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: with my ex wife and my three kids, how they
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: were to see me, who I was, what I did,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: you know, why I'm not a good person, why I'm
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: not a good father, why I shouldn't be in their
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: life anymore, so on and so forth. So she definitely
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: played a very large part the prosecution in my case
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: actually tried to get my children involved in my conviction
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: and they all three refused, So that that should tell
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: you something right there, But they somehow someway, We're just
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: influenced to the extent that that it's what year are
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: we on now?
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: Twenty twenty five five?
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: So we're nine years later and I still don't have
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: a relationship with my first three children.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean I don't really have any words
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: for that. I've always wanted kids. I can't have kids.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: I had cancer. But yeah, I'm sure that that's got
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: to be really tough. Have you been on Have you
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: been in contact with Terrence Pop? Have you tried? I
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: don't know if you. I know that Arvis has, but
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: have you, Mike, have been on his show or spoke
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: to him?
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: I have no.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, it might be worth checking out. Go ahead, harvest.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: So I was gonna answer that. So what Terrence has
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 4: asked about other cases? So I submitted to him a
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 4: list and we're working through that now. Terrence has been
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 4: absolutely amazing. His show is also incredible, so thank you
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 4: for that connection. So he has a summary of MICA's
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 4: cases as well as several others and we're going through there.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 4: He has been a tremendous supporter. If it's okay, Brian,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 4: I was gonna make a quick ask of the audience
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: if I could do that, yep. So one, if you
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 4: could please share this show to everybody you like and
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 4: even people you don't like, yeah, and have them share
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 4: it and keep sharing it, we would be appreciative because
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 4: this word has to get out. Number two, we have
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 4: a petition www dot change dot org forward slash unjust
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 4: you see him Jay or you see my case, Micahs
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 4: several others, and we reference the thousands of other people
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 4: who are part of this in the in the comments
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 4: and sign and share that as well. And if you
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 4: know politicians, media personalities, if you will please get them
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 4: this video. We have more people who are willing to
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 4: come forward, and we want to thank you for sticking
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 4: with us and listening. And again, Brian, thank you for
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 4: having the courage to put this out. Because a lot
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 4: of people, a lot of people I found out, get
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 4: funded by the military, a lot of media sources, a
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 4: lot of nonprofits I had no idea ones I grew
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 4: up trusting my whole life. They get extensive federal funds,
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 4: a lot of it from d OD. They will not
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 4: put this story out because they believe it will jeopardize
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 4: their funding. So thank you again and thank your audience. Yeah,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 4: thank you Michah, thank you.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: Mike you Yeah, thank you Micah for coming and tell
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: and sharing your story. And thank you Harvists for you know,
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: just like introducing me to these fascinating people and their
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: wild stories. And uh, I just hope that this will
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: have an impact at some point. I think it is.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: I think that you know, people are seeing this stuff
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: and you know, eventually it's going to get to the
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: right person and they're gonna be basically be like, hey,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: you know, we need to do something about this. So
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: we'll just keep on swinging as you know, as as
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: it goes. So I wanna we're gonna wrap it up here.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: This is going a little bit longer than normal, but
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: I'm okay with that. It's fine. I thought it was
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: worth doing. Again, Michael, do you have any final words
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: before I wrap it up?
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: I just want to reiterate what what Arvest has touched
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: on that you know, uh, listeners out there that think
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: that that are that my story is is appalling. There
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: are and and during my time when I was incarcerated,
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: and after I have met some amazing men that have
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: similar and in a lot of cases, more appalling stories
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: than mine, and I am just I'm still emotional about it,
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: and I love I've grown to love these men and
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: and I want this show, my story to just help
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: propel this situation and bring light to what's going on.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: And so so all of these men that are affected
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: by these false allegations can can have some sort of
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: relief down the road. This is this is why I'm
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: doing this.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: Thank you, man, Thank you so much for for sharing
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: this with us. It's it's really a treasure. And all right,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: so we got to wrap it up here, guys, but
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: please be sure to share this video. You know, it's
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: like the one thing I ask. And if you can't,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: or I mean, if you, if you're able, give this
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: a like and and so that maybe it'll you know,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: do a little bit more favorably in the YouTube algorithm.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: So anyway, if you guys like this video, please don't
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: like subscribe. If you're not already subscribed to the channel,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: hit the bell so that you can be notified when
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: our streams go live, and leave us a comment let
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: us know what you guys think about the story. There
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: are links that we just talked about to change dot
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: org and all that is in the description of this video.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: And share this video once again because sharing is caring.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you to Micah and Arvis for coming on the show.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys for watching, and we'll talk to you
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: guys in the next video. See you later, guys,