Latest / Simply Bitcoin / What Public Company Will Follow Saylor's Bitcoin Strategy? | EP 893

Transcript

What Public Company Will Follow Saylor's Bitcoin Strategy? | EP 893 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:04
  It's. All going to zero against
• 0:07
  Bitcoin. It's going up forever.
• 0:17
  You're against Bitcoin. You're against freedom.
• 0:21
  Yeah, welcome to another episode of Simply Bitcoin Live.
• 0:24
  We're number one source for the peaceful Bitcoin revolution.
• 0:26
  Code breaking news Culture of Medic Warfare will be a guide
• 0:28
  through the separation of money in state.
• 0:30
  Today we're going to talk about a couple, I mean multiple
• 0:33
  interesting subjects. 1st Wall Street.
• 0:36
  Continues to drop ads relating to the Bitcoin ETF.
• 0:41
  It's just interesting, you know the the Dos Ekis guy that
• 0:44
  another company dropped another one also Michael Saylor is
• 0:48
  finally saying the choir part out loud.
• 0:50
  He's making his rounds on legacy corporate media and he's
• 0:53
  basically making the case like look like clearly, you know the
• 0:56
  Bitcoin strategy has worked. It has been vindicated.
• 0:59
  There's all these public companies that are sitting on
• 1:02
  mountains of cash AKA melting ice cubes.
• 1:06
  Which public company will follow suit especially after they just
• 1:09
  changed the FASB rules right? Making it very easy and making
• 1:12
  it easier for companies to hold Bitcoin on their balance sheet.
• 1:16
  They could actually correctly reflect the losses or the gains
• 1:20
  were before they weren't able to do so.
• 1:23
  So you know it it really does look like all the stars are
• 1:26
  aligning in terms of for Bitcoin and we also have a very special
• 1:30
  guest, we have Bitcoin mechanic. Bitcoin Mechanic is part of
• 1:33
  Ocean, the new decentralized Bitcoin mining pool, so we have
• 1:37
  a lot of questions for him. It's going to be a great show.
• 1:40
  Overall, very excited and a quick reminder guys, we are
• 1:43
  going to be taking a break next week.
• 1:46
  I am extremely burnt out. I have not taken a break in
• 1:49
  three years so I am unplugging. I'm taking off my swan hat and
• 1:53
  I'm taking off my simply hat for 10 days and I'm going to go lay
• 1:56
  on a beach and it's going to be delicious.
• 1:59
  So I'm just letting you guys know beforehand, that's what
• 2:02
  we're going to be doing. Simply Bitcoin.
• 2:04
  We'll be taking a break anyways. No more delay.
• 2:07
  I do want to bring up my legendary Co host.
• 2:09
  He is in a closet right now. How you doing Opti?
• 2:13
  I am doing good. It looks like my Internet it's
• 2:16
  not too bad, but it's still lagging.
• 2:18
  I don't know what's going on this morning, but we're back.
• 2:20
  We're here. Good to be here guys.
• 2:22
  Hopefully my Internet doesn't go completely haywire on you guys.
• 2:26
  I don't know what's going on. But anyways, let's get on the
• 2:29
  show today. Yeah, avoid me.
• 2:32
  Go to mechanic. Go to mechanic.
• 2:34
  Wait, it's kind of working. Hey, what's up guys?
• 2:37
  I do want to bring up mechanic. Mechanic seems like you are low
• 2:41
  on your seat. I do like the angle.
• 2:44
  It's interesting. How you doing?
• 2:47
  I'm good. I'm going to adjust that webcam
• 2:49
  so that I'm looking better. Sorry, I'm a mess, guys.
• 2:53
  I've been up all night. You know what, it's like
• 2:55
  coordinating this stuff because we just did a big change in how
• 2:59
  Ocean works, yeah. What a what?
• 3:02
  A what. A big, what.
• 3:03
  A big fitting day for you to be on the show.
• 3:05
  I I'm sure everyone in the chat is going to be super hyped and
• 3:08
  maybe they'll drop some questions for you.
• 3:10
  I know you're just told us you're like bitcoins have so
• 3:13
  many questions for everything. Well, I'm sure you'll get some
• 3:15
  more today. Yeah, I mean, it's the nature of
• 3:18
  being a transparent pool. The more info you give, the more
• 3:20
  info people want, like, and I think it's genuine excitement,
• 3:24
  right? Like mining has been a black box
• 3:26
  forever. It's just, you know, put this
• 3:29
  URL in, make an account here and then SAT and there's just no
• 3:34
  sort of information about what happens in between the two
• 3:36
  processes like. So you know, we're the first one
• 3:39
  to have that transparency in how it all works.
• 3:42
  And it's been fun. People have been really enjoying
• 3:45
  it. Yeah, a lot of fun.
• 3:46
  Back to mining. It's really, really cool what
• 3:49
  you guys are doing. I had the privilege to be able
• 3:51
  to attend the, the, what is the reveal ceremony?
• 3:55
  The. The.
• 3:57
  Launch. The launch and then I saw the
• 4:00
  the christening of the champagne over the ASIC and then all that
• 4:04
  good stuff. So it was very, very
• 4:06
  interesting. So yeah, I love what you guys
• 4:09
  are doing. I have an ocean blanket limited.
• 4:11
  Edition. Me too.
• 4:12
  I took one of those too. I didn't think to take one.
• 4:15
  I wish I had. I got a shirt obviously, but.
• 4:18
  I never and I'm and mechanic is going to send me a hoodie
• 4:21
  eventually. So anyways, it's going.
• 4:25
  To get APO box. I don't want to know your
• 4:27
  address, man. There we go.
• 4:28
  There we go. Before we go on, what do you
• 4:30
  always say, Nico? A mechanic buried the lead.
• 4:33
  Mechanic. Did you just say you're bringing
• 4:35
  fun back to Bitcoin? Oh my goodness.
• 4:38
  That's impossible. Fun Back to Bitcoin mining.
• 4:40
  Perhaps Bitcoin itself will always be fun.
• 4:43
  There's never a dull day in Bitcoin itself.
• 4:45
  Wizards in disbelief. This is true.
• 4:48
  There is never a dull day in Bitcoin.
• 4:50
  All right everybody, No more delay to jump straight into the
• 4:52
  show. We have a lot to talk about to
• 4:53
  check it out. The Bitcoin numbers.
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  Seed website. At the time of recording the
• 6:08
  Bitcoin price is 43,575 so that's per dollar 2295 block
• 6:14
  height 822,263 blocks to having 17,737 having estimate April
• 6:21
  19th 2024 Total Lightning Network capacity 5005 Bitcoin
• 6:26
  capacity value 218,000,000 U.S. dollars.
• 6:29
  Realize monetary inflation 1.75% The market capitalization of
• 6:34
  Bitcoin $853 billion of the B Bitcoin versus gold market cap
• 6:39
  6.27%. Anyways, there's been a couple
• 6:43
  of professionally made ads that have been dropping preparing for
• 6:48
  the Bitcoin ETF. Also if you take a look at the
• 6:51
  betting odds, looks like bettors are heavily favouring the
• 6:57
  approval of a spot Bitcoin ETF in 2024.
• 7:00
  So things might get interesting. But just a friendly reminder to
• 7:04
  everybody, spot Bitcoin ETF or ETF?
• 7:08
  Bitcoin is captured Bitcoin. Not your keys, not your Bitcoin.
• 7:12
  Anyways, here's Michael Saylor reposting the Bitwise bitwise
• 7:16
  ad. I think they got the Dos Equis
• 7:18
  guys. If you guys have been around for
• 7:20
  a little bit, the Dos Equis guy was legendary.
• 7:24
  Essentially he would just, he was the most interesting guy in
• 7:26
  the world and he would, you know always have these scenes when he
• 7:29
  was with women and like and these exotic locations.
• 7:33
  Looks like they got the same guy to talk about Bitcoin.
• 7:36
  This is the latest one. Let's check it out.
• 7:42
  Thought you would like to know Satoshi sends his regards.
• 7:48
  Look for bitwise my friends. I mean, like, it's kind of
• 7:52
  funny. OK, And then here's this other
• 7:54
  one by hashtags. Let's check it out.
• 7:56
  I'm. Coming in.
• 8:15
  I mean, like, yeah, they're coming in Hot Bro.
• 8:17
  That's what I got to say. Like these commercials, they're
• 8:19
  spending a lot of money. You know, they're they're buying
• 8:22
  the rights to popular music. They're getting these famous
• 8:25
  actors to promote these ETFs, to promote these products.
• 8:29
  Wall Street is obviously investing a lot of money into
• 8:32
  this and it's a change in tune versus a couple years ago where
• 8:36
  it was really the crypto casinos that were spending all this
• 8:39
  money and it was like none of them were really good
• 8:41
  advertisements. These are like the first couple
• 8:43
  advertisements that I look at these and I'm like, these are
• 8:45
  pretty clever. These are pretty interesting.
• 8:47
  Getting the most interesting guy in the world to talk about
• 8:50
  Satoshi. Could you ever have imagined
• 8:52
  this moment seven years ago? Mechanic.
• 8:55
  Look how far we've come. Yeah, I mean, I I don't, I don't
• 8:59
  want to be a negative guy, right.
• 9:02
  It's not really. It's a weird, questionable way
• 9:05
  for it to go. You know, it's kind of like for
• 9:08
  me, when you get what's his name if benign, Berliner, that guy,
• 9:14
  John F Kennedy or, you know, his son just sort of go, I'm a
• 9:18
  bitcoiner. I'm like, this is kind of just
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  surreal to me. It's very validating.
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  But at the same time, it's weird.
• 9:26
  Don't you think it's weird it? Is super weird, man.
• 9:29
  It's super weird. Like, you know, a couple years
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  ago you would have thought, like, you know, we were still
• 9:36
  kind of in the shadows. And now there's a bit more
• 9:39
  mainstream acceptance, whether it's the commercials or these,
• 9:43
  you know, popular politicians saying I will protect your right
• 9:45
  to self custody. So yeah, it's fucking weird as
• 9:48
  shit Bitcoin mechanic. Yeah I think it is.
• 9:50
  I think the main thing is like I like I like that tone.
• 9:54
  Vase coined that word unconfiscatable like it's it is
• 9:59
  the primary attribute of Bitcoin.
• 10:01
  And then everyone's like the ETF hype is just just ignore the
• 10:05
  fact that it can now be confiscated because everything
• 10:07
  else is great number go up. All that stuff like this is the
• 10:10
  whole point is that you can't confiscate someone's Bitcoin.
• 10:13
  You can't 61O2 it. And then the first thing you do
• 10:16
  is go. What we want is an ETF.
• 10:19
  I want people to be able to confiscate my Bitcoin.
• 10:21
  Then the number will really go up.
• 10:23
  Like the the the problem with Bitcoin is that it can't be
• 10:25
  confiscated. So let's make it confiscatable,
• 10:28
  like, and then everything will be fixed.
• 10:30
  It's just it's just so utterly backward.
• 10:32
  The fact that that would be the thing that makes us sort of
• 10:35
  enter a new bull market. But I mean, we were kind of due
• 10:37
  for a bull market anyway, so who knows what's going on with that.
• 10:41
  But I'm certainly never, ever not going to buy real Bitcoin.
• 10:44
  I'm only ever going to own real Bitcoin.
• 10:46
  I bought some like, you know, you know how you get these like
• 10:50
  tax advantage things if you save in certain ways like you can buy
• 10:55
  like. So I bought one of those things
• 10:56
  like I think that it was called QBTC and like another way of
• 11:01
  doing it I guess would just be to buy micro strategy stock like
• 11:04
  with your retirement stuff, you know?
• 11:05
  And I tried that for a while and was like feeling all cool and
• 11:09
  tax efficient and I ended up just like, no, I don't want to
• 11:12
  do this. I just want no more real
• 11:13
  Bitcoin. Like I couldn't, I couldn't
• 11:14
  bring myself to do it. Yeah.
• 11:17
  Yeah, dude, it's it's it's just interesting.
• 11:20
  I I agree with you. It is it is a kind of like a
• 11:23
  bittersweet moment where you know this essentially this
• 11:27
  peddling of paper Bitcoin by Wall Street could be a major
• 11:31
  catalyst for the next bull market.
• 11:33
  But you know it it And at the same time, I don't think it's a
• 11:36
  coincidence that, you know, Elizabeth Warren and forces are
• 11:40
  trying to ban the right for Americans to take self custody
• 11:43
  around the same time. I don't think that's a
• 11:45
  coincidence, right? So maybe, maybe it's the the the
• 11:50
  Bitcoin conspiracy theorist in me.
• 11:53
  I don't know. I think if you had that
• 11:55
  attitude, you'd you'd be right, or you'd be in a good spot in a
• 11:59
  few years from now, even if you weren't entirely correct about
• 12:01
  it being coordinated. Like if you act like things are
• 12:04
  a conspiracy, even if they're not, sometimes that heuristic
• 12:08
  just makes you make good choices.
• 12:09
  And you know it's not. It's not something I'll knock.
• 12:14
  I think it's totally everything is a conspiracy mechanic.
• 12:16
  I think they're, they're these demons are trying to take away
• 12:19
  our money. I I I don't know man.
• 12:22
  I think it's I think like there's it's a purity test and
• 12:27
  like if you keep it simple and you buy Bitcoin and you stay
• 12:30
  humble and stack Sats and you know, not your keys, not your
• 12:33
  coins. I think we have these amazing
• 12:34
  mantras in the space and if you observe them you you end up in
• 12:38
  an incredible spot in not a very long time.
• 12:40
  So like if you want to get fancy with it and start doing shit
• 12:44
  coin flipping and all this stuff he's got 90% of the time.
• 12:48
  I'm sure these guys just end up with the reputation in the trash
• 12:51
  and no money either. Like it's really like good money
• 12:55
  exists. You have this asymmetric
• 12:56
  advantage. Get as much of the good money as
• 12:59
  you can while everyone else figures it out and just relax.
• 13:02
  That's it. Like don't don't let the pumpers
• 13:05
  and the nonsense people and the F, the F scammers and the Solana
• 13:09
  scammers and all that. Just ignore it all.
• 13:11
  Like I muted the I muted everything from my Twitter
• 13:15
  timeline years ago. That was nonsense.
• 13:17
  So Craig Wright gone. Etherium Afuera.
• 13:22
  Right, like. Just gone.
• 13:24
  I don't want to know, like all of the wrong ways to spell
• 13:27
  etherium. All of the wrong like hashtag
• 13:29
  BSVBSV, hashtag BSVCSW, Craig Wright.
• 13:34
  Like I never want to hear about any of this crap.
• 13:36
  It's a waste of my time. Like in five years.
• 13:38
  Talk to me then and I'll be, you know, in a really happy spot.
• 13:43
  I'll be playing with my family, whatever.
• 13:44
  Like, it's good money. You don't need to play these
• 13:47
  Fiat games anymore. We have good money.
• 13:49
  Just save your time. Stash it up in good money that
• 13:53
  can't be debased and relaxed. Absolutely.
• 13:55
  So we have good money, but OPTI still does not have good
• 13:58
  Internet. Dude, don't blame me bro.
• 14:00
  I don't know what's going on this one anyways.
• 14:02
  Anyways, before I. Move on at least the audio's.
• 14:04
  Clear the audio's the. Audio's clear.
• 14:06
  I I want to give Mechanic one of these.
• 14:09
  Yeah, listen, that's cool. Motherfucking.
• 14:12
  It's so simple, guys. Just stack Bitcoin.
• 14:14
  Hold it. It's not hard.
• 14:17
  Yeah, it's not hard like it. It's really, really simple.
• 14:19
  But anyways, to to your point of the ads that we're seeing, you
• 14:23
  know, I can't wait till we see like a Bitcoin Super Bowl ad
• 14:26
  that's telling you guys like just take your Bitcoin into
• 14:28
  custody and and not this, like buy an ETF.
• 14:31
  But I think it just goes and I was literally telling Nico this
• 14:34
  this morning, we were kind of, you know, speculating like, all
• 14:37
  right, what's this year? What's next year going to have
• 14:39
  it in store for us? And I, I was just kind of laying
• 14:42
  it down. It's like, man, we're going to
• 14:44
  have a crazy amount of advertisements for Bitcoin,
• 14:48
  whether that's the Elizabeth Warrens of the world, whether
• 14:50
  that's, you know, the most interesting man in the world.
• 14:52
  We're going to have the having, we have the fast B rule changes
• 14:55
  at the end of the year. We're going to have
• 14:56
  institutional money come in. Like I think this year is going
• 14:59
  to be absolutely crazy and everyone and their mom will be
• 15:02
  talking about Bitcoin by the end of the year.
• 15:04
  And it's just such. It's such a good time for you
• 15:07
  guys. You have that asymmetric
• 15:09
  knowledge and the opportunity of just stacking Bitcoin right now
• 15:12
  and no one knows what's going on.
• 15:14
  Everyone I I legitimately think that almost everyone has heard
• 15:18
  about Bitcoin. They just don't know the the the
• 15:21
  best way to deal with Bitcoin yet, and you guys do.
• 15:24
  So this is the opportunity for you guys to stack as much
• 15:27
  Bitcoin as possible, take it into custody and like Mechanic
• 15:31
  is saying, just hold your Bitcoin and cold storage, relax,
• 15:34
  go outside, touch some grass, hang out with your friends and
• 15:37
  family and watch the price go up and and then just continue to
• 15:41
  propagate the Bitcoin memes that ensure that people do not wreck
• 15:44
  themselves. Like it's so it's so simple.
• 15:47
  It really is so simple. Do not overcomplicate this.
• 15:51
  It's so simple. Some people make it complicated.
• 15:53
  Anyways, I do want to give a shout out to our sponsor,
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• 16:42
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  Visit swanbitcoin.com today. All right guys, I do also want
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  to give a shout out to the Pacific Bitcoin Festival in Los
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  miss it. It's going to be the biggest
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  Opti and I are going to be there and we hope to see you guys
• 17:36
  there as well. Anyways, let's pivot the
• 17:39
  conversation. And let's talk about ocean.
• 17:43
  Let's talk about ocean. What's?
• 17:45
  Going on in the ocean. What's going on?
• 17:48
  We're moving towards the future, which is decentralized block
• 17:52
  template construction. Yesterday we rolled out a new
• 17:55
  design that says we're going to make a few templates and you
• 17:58
  have to pick which one you want. And already we have questions
• 18:02
  like, well, which one should I pick?
• 18:04
  And I'm like, well, you should know because that's a miner's
• 18:07
  responsibility. It always was, and it's just
• 18:09
  been forgotten about. So it's, you know, it's exciting
• 18:13
  to watch people figure out, well, if I put this in the
• 18:16
  template, that sucks because it's a bunch of bare multi sig
• 18:20
  spam, it's provably unspendable and it makes life more difficult
• 18:24
  for people running nodes for the rest of eternity.
• 18:27
  Maybe I don't want to include that in blocks.
• 18:29
  And we've got, we've got the visualizers for each of the
• 18:33
  different templates that we're building.
• 18:35
  And I think the plan today is for the templates that contain
• 18:39
  obvious spam is to colour them all poop brown.
• 18:43
  I think Jason's working on that at the moment.
• 18:45
  I don't think it's live yet, but I see him in the signal chat
• 18:48
  right now just sort of showing the preview of it.
• 18:50
  So it's going to be a lot of fun.
• 18:52
  There's going to be, you know, beautiful blue transactions that
• 18:55
  are obviously real transactions and the default is you're a real
• 18:59
  transaction, right? But if you're doing the the
• 19:01
  stamp spam, the bare MULTI 6 stuff, and if you want to look
• 19:04
  at the core template, you'll see all that poop brown stuff
• 19:06
  floating around in the ocean, it's not very pleasant.
• 19:09
  You know, we're not, you know, environmentalism is a valid
• 19:14
  movement despite the nut cases that took it over.
• 19:18
  And to that end, don't throw garbage in the ocean.
• 19:23
  I think we all agree that's a bad thing.
• 19:25
  So you know, we want a nice pure blue ocean.
• 19:27
  We don't want like old shampoo bottles floating around in
• 19:30
  there, right? So.
• 19:34
  I like that. I like the way that you framed
• 19:36
  that. So actually, let's kind of break
• 19:38
  it down a little bit. Opti, why don't you read some of
• 19:42
  that tweet? Because it breaks down the three
• 19:44
  options that are available. And in honor of mechanics
• 19:47
  talking about a blue ocean, I am going to be wearing the ocean.
• 19:56
  What's it called? Blanket.
• 19:57
  Blanket. There we go.
• 19:59
  Look, throw blanket. All right, guys.
• 20:00
  So here we are. This is the announcement from
• 20:03
  Twitter. We got ocean.
• 20:05
  It's so good. We got ocean mining on the
• 20:08
  corner. How do I look?
• 20:10
  You look great, mate. You look like you look like the
• 20:12
  Mona Lisa all. Right, here's the tweet.
• 20:17
  I'll just go over some of this. Actually, I'll just read the
• 20:20
  tweet and then we'll let Mechanic break this down.
• 20:22
  So a decentralized Bitcoin is a Bitcoin where miners decide what
• 20:26
  goes in blocks, not pools. Ocean's ultimate goal is to make
• 20:29
  this a reality. And today we take one step
• 20:31
  closer to our vision of decentralized block template
• 20:34
  construction. Available immediately, Ocean is
• 20:37
  offering multiple block template policies.
• 20:39
  Giving miners control over what blocks they are mining, the
• 20:42
  three options are one, Ocean recommended most real financial
• 20:46
  transactions and lease spam to Bitcoin Core with the Rd.
• 20:50
  Respecter Spam filter. 3 Unmodified Bitcoin Core same as
• 20:54
  other pools with fewest financial transactions and most
• 20:57
  spam. Ocean will continue at 0%
• 21:00
  promotional pool fee for options one and two, while there will be
• 21:03
  a competitive pool fee of 2% for option three.
• 21:06
  Our fees are structured to incentivize miners to make
• 21:09
  choices that benefit the Bitcoin network in the long term.
• 21:12
  Suggestions for more templates let us know.
• 21:15
  At mining at ocean dot XYZ. OK, we got the we got the tweet
• 21:20
  here mechanic. Now maybe break this down for
• 21:25
  the people in the back that don't understand exactly what is
• 21:27
  going on. Right, so miners do a lot,
• 21:30
  right? They don't just hash.
• 21:32
  I'm not sure how familiar everyone is with mining, but
• 21:34
  there's a whole bunch of parts to the process and what has been
• 21:38
  considered a Bitcoin miner over the past, you know, few years
• 21:42
  and getting worse is the hashing component of mining, which is,
• 21:47
  as I say, one part of it. It's the proof of work part, but
• 21:49
  it's not all of it. You still have to run a node and
• 21:52
  you still have to connect to the network and download the
• 21:54
  blockchain and verify the whole thing.
• 21:56
  And then you got to, you got to get transactions and populate
• 22:00
  new blocks with them when you're trying to find them.
• 22:03
  And all of this is being done by mining pools, and then they just
• 22:06
  delegate the proof of work part out.
• 22:09
  What this means is in practice you have these two bottlenecks
• 22:12
  either side of the distributed hash rate.
• 22:15
  Decentralized hash rate's great, and Bitcoin does have pretty
• 22:18
  decentralized hash rate, but it doesn't have decentralized
• 22:20
  mining because you need to decentralize the other
• 22:22
  components of mining if you want that to be a thing.
• 22:26
  And so like I say, you get these two bottlenecks, you get
• 22:29
  distribution here, big thick amount.
• 22:31
  And then I on the way in bottleneck because who's making
• 22:35
  all the A6 and then on the way out bottleneck, all freshly
• 22:38
  mined coins go through the same 11 or 12 hands.
• 22:42
  That's no good. So we're saying miners, you've
• 22:46
  got to take on. You've got to become miners
• 22:49
  again. You can't just be hashers.
• 22:50
  You have to do the rest of it. Like you're supposed to care
• 22:52
  when blocks get found and you're supposed to care what's in those
• 22:55
  blocks. This is your decision and it
• 22:57
  there's a lot of nuance that goes into it.
• 22:59
  And yes, some of it is ethical too.
• 23:00
  Like, if you want to care about Bitcoin in the long term, you
• 23:04
  need to care about what actually happens in the blockchain.
• 23:06
  And it's not necessarily the case that you want to stuff it
• 23:08
  with the highest paying fees. But regardless, we have a
• 23:12
  default Core template, which is not always necessarily the
• 23:15
  highest paying fees, but it's what everyone is most
• 23:18
  comfortable with usually. It's kind of the network
• 23:21
  default. So we have that template.
• 23:24
  Naturally, we have the Knots template, which has updated spam
• 23:28
  filters. There's been spam filters in
• 23:30
  Bitcoin forever. They haven't been working
• 23:33
  particularly well. They've needed to be updated
• 23:35
  since Taproot Knots updates it. As a result our blocks contain
• 23:39
  less poop floating around. And this is pretty this is
• 23:43
  pretty objective at this point. Like some people are being a bit
• 23:46
  navel gazy and saying, oh, but what is spam anyway?
• 23:49
  And it's it's pretty obvious what spam is right?
• 23:51
  Like it's I know that it's subjective, but at the same time
• 23:54
  if you ever go into your Gmail spam folder, you'll be like,
• 23:57
  yeah, I agree this is nearly all spam and it's not it's it might
• 24:01
  be valuable to the sender. It might comply with the rules
• 24:04
  of the e-mail SMTP protocol, but it's still spam and you still
• 24:08
  don't want it. So there's collectively a
• 24:11
  reasonable understanding that bitcoiners can come to, and I
• 24:14
  think the the conversation is progressing a lot because
• 24:18
  everyone's pretty hostile to this notion at the beginning.
• 24:20
  But of course spam is a conceivable concept in a
• 24:23
  blockchain, and there's been a lot done to mitigate it beyond
• 24:26
  just having a fee market that says, oh, it's going to be
• 24:28
  expensive, There's more done than that.
• 24:30
  There are spam filters in Bitcoin that always have been.
• 24:33
  It's makes sense to have a conversation where we figure out
• 24:36
  how to make sure what ends up in blocks is genuine financial
• 24:39
  activity. And there's a pragmatic reason
• 24:42
  for this too. We're not ready to to to push
• 24:45
  everyone on to 2nd layers and things like that.
• 24:47
  We don't even have confidence yet.
• 24:50
  Like Lightning is not there yet. That we can say to El
• 24:53
  Salvadorans, Yeah, OK, you can't open it.
• 24:55
  Like you need to experiment with lightning, right?
• 24:57
  And it's going to cost you 70 bucks to open and close a
• 25:01
  channel like this is not realistic for 99% of the planet.
• 25:04
  So all they're going to do is just use custodial solutions.
• 25:07
  And that's not going to work right?
• 25:10
  Like we're not. Bitcoin ultimately ends up in a
• 25:12
  place where you not everyone has access to layer one anyway, but
• 25:16
  we're not there yet, like. So we need to be careful on a
• 25:19
  practical level of what habits get entrenched.
• 25:22
  So, I mean, I'm sort of going all over the place here, but
• 25:27
  Ocean has sort of found itself unwittingly in this fight
• 25:30
  against spam, because we were the ones constructing a template
• 25:34
  that didn't have spam in it, which was like kind of crazy for
• 25:37
  everyone to to see, And most people's instinctive reaction
• 25:40
  was just to label it censorship. Which makes no sense at all,
• 25:43
  because then by definition, anyone running a core node is
• 25:46
  censoring too. Like your your opera turn limit
• 25:49
  is at 80 bytes, ours is at 42. Apparently what we're doing is
• 25:53
  censorship, and what you're doing isn't so that there's
• 25:56
  never any coherence to that argument.
• 25:58
  And most people making it didn't even know about these settings
• 26:01
  within Bitcoin Core anyway. So it was just kind of people
• 26:04
  just being like, wait a minute, you guys have no idea how any of
• 26:06
  this works. But anyway, Ocean, come along
• 26:09
  and we had this default template that was a Knots template that
• 26:13
  filtered spam more aggressively than Core.
• 26:15
  It got mischaracterized as censorship.
• 26:18
  It was like a deeply ironic fight for us to be in.
• 26:22
  Because the whole point of the Ocean project anyway, is that we
• 26:24
  don't want to be in a position where we're telling miners, hey,
• 26:27
  you've got a miners template. So anyway, we now we've we're
• 26:30
  past that stage now anyway. We have multiple templates on
• 26:33
  offer. They're logical.
• 26:35
  They're what people probably are going to want to use.
• 26:38
  As it said at the end of that tweet you just read there.
• 26:41
  If you have ideas for other ways to construct templates, shoot
• 26:45
  them over. We'll get some more hosted and
• 26:47
  this is all in sort of as a stepping stone towards the final
• 26:51
  solution, which of course is miners making their own
• 26:54
  templates locally. And then you decentralize mining
• 26:58
  to a much greater extent because you take the already distributed
• 27:00
  hash rate and you say not only are we going to distribute hash
• 27:04
  rate, we're going to distribute block template construction.
• 27:07
  And that's going to be a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to
• 27:09
  seeing it materialize and we took a big step towards it
• 27:12
  yesterday. So the and let's talk a little
• 27:15
  bit about that thing, the consequence of it, right,
• 27:17
  because he's laughing at me. So there is a there's a big,
• 27:22
  there's a big consequence. I can't take myself seriously in
• 27:25
  this. There is a big consequence to
• 27:27
  what you guys are doing versus how was being done before.
• 27:32
  I didn't realize the significance of it until, you
• 27:36
  know the the event that I attended and I was like this is
• 27:40
  a big deal. So can you explain how you know
• 27:45
  mining pools operated before ocean and how they operate now?
• 27:50
  Right. So the way mining pools operated
• 27:52
  before was they were a miner, that's it, a solo miner and they
• 27:57
  they did all of the process of mining.
• 27:59
  And what they did, in addition to being a solo miner, is they
• 28:03
  rented hash rate, which is you can they would pay you to point
• 28:08
  your mining, you know, hardware at them and solve their blocks
• 28:12
  for them. But the point is it was their
• 28:13
  blocks, it was not the miners blocks the miners do not know
• 28:16
  anything about. This continues to be the case by
• 28:18
  the way, for all the other pools.
• 28:20
  Miners pointing their pool, their mining hardware at a
• 28:23
  mining pool are just leasing out their hash rate to a solo miner
• 28:27
  who then constructs blocks. You know, doesn't tell anyone
• 28:30
  what's in them, stuffs them with crap or, you know, out of band
• 28:34
  payments or whatever they want to do, and they just pay a
• 28:37
  market rate for the hash rate pointed at them.
• 28:39
  It's called FPPS. It basically says if you point
• 28:41
  this much hash rate at us, we will send you this much money.
• 28:44
  Even if we don't find any blocks, there's nothing to do
• 28:47
  with it. We want your hash rate and
• 28:50
  people. Bizarrely, in this model,
• 28:53
  usually the hasher pays a fee to the miner rather than the other
• 28:56
  way around. So the the model doesn't make
• 28:59
  any sense and it's probably going to die pretty soon because
• 29:02
  it's very difficult to maintain expected revenue because there
• 29:07
  is no way to make expectations realistic in a Bitcoin that's
• 29:10
  sustained by transaction fees. There's no way to make estimates
• 29:14
  the way they used to be with Bitcoin being sustained,
• 29:16
  sustained by subsidy. Back in the day, you had 50
• 29:21
  bitcoins generated every 10 minutes and that's all that mine
• 29:24
  has got because the transaction fee revenue was basically
• 29:27
  nothing. So you could make very accurate
• 29:29
  predictions with that. If you knew how much hash rate
• 29:31
  you had and you knew how much hash rate there was roughly on
• 29:34
  the total network, you could plug that into a calculator and
• 29:37
  say, all right, I will learn exactly this much Bitcoin every
• 29:41
  month. Well, not exactly, but give or
• 29:42
  take a very small margin, you can say this much hash rate will
• 29:46
  get me this much SAT. But now it doesn't work that way
• 29:50
  because you have price prediction.
• 29:51
  Essentially, you need to know what the price of block space is
• 29:54
  going to be over the future. Like, who knows if there's going
• 29:58
  to be another spam wave where you know the OR the another
• 30:01
  token mint or whatever they're doing in shit coin land.
• 30:06
  Who knows. Sorry if that's bad language for
• 30:08
  this show, but you know they. So you don't know what the price
• 30:12
  of block space is going to be. So when you're preemptively
• 30:15
  saying, hey hashes, point your mining equipment at our pool,
• 30:19
  we'll pay you this much if you have some weird thing happen,
• 30:22
  like F2 pool gets a 19 Bitcoin transaction fee, but let someone
• 30:26
  fat fingered or Ant pool gets an 83 Bitcoin transaction fee that
• 30:30
  someone fat fingered. Like what happens there?
• 30:34
  Does does the collective understanding of what rented
• 30:37
  hash rate is worth suddenly go up a bit?
• 30:40
  Do other pools have to cover that?
• 30:42
  Because that's what FPFPPS says. It says, OK, here's the average
• 30:46
  transaction fee revenue in all of the blocks getting found by
• 30:49
  all of the pools. Your hash rate should give you
• 30:52
  this much. So every 24 hours we're going to
• 30:54
  pay you out this much. And it's just sort of a fantasy
• 30:57
  because what if the pool that you're pointing your hash rate
• 31:00
  at didn't actually find any blocks?
• 31:01
  They still pay you anyway. They bankroll the whole thing.
• 31:04
  This is this. You pay a price for that level
• 31:07
  of intermediary having someone that can a massive giant solo
• 31:11
  mining entity that rents hash rate globally.
• 31:15
  The the, the the overhead of doing that ultimately comes out
• 31:19
  of the pocket of the miners that are using it.
• 31:21
  So when you disintermediate it like we do, we're just saying
• 31:25
  look we're not paying you anything, OK?
• 31:27
  Bitcoin is. So all we're doing is saying all
• 31:31
  of these miners coming together don't want to solo mine.
• 31:34
  They want to distribute rewards among them and they want to find
• 31:36
  more blocks more frequently. All we're going to do is
• 31:40
  negotiate that the reward is split correctly.
• 31:42
  Everything else we don't want to do.
• 31:43
  We don't want to be responsible for the block template
• 31:45
  construction. We don't want to take custody of
• 31:47
  funds and we don't want to hide any of this.
• 31:50
  We don't want to stuff it without a band transactions.
• 31:53
  We're not at, you know, we're not economically at odds with
• 31:57
  our miners. We're on the same team.
• 31:59
  This is extremely bizarre that this has to sort of happen, but
• 32:03
  it's philosophically just opposed in so many different
• 32:06
  dimensions. So ocean comes along and we're
• 32:08
  saying, all right, we are just at liaise.
• 32:10
  That's it. So all of you minus pointing
• 32:12
  yourselves towards us, here's the transparent data on what all
• 32:15
  of you are doing. We for the first time now have a
• 32:18
  verifiable reward split. So when a block is found, as
• 32:22
  many people as possible are paid out from that block and the
• 32:26
  payout split is verifiable from all of the data going into the
• 32:30
  pool. That's all public.
• 32:31
  So there's no account creation, there's no KYC set up.
• 32:35
  There's no permission involved. It's not, it's not you making a
• 32:39
  private account with a a hash rate renter.
• 32:42
  You know, that's sort of become the standard.
• 32:45
  It's literally just be a Bitcoin miner again.
• 32:47
  But you want to pool because you don't want to wait years before
• 32:50
  you find a block. It's it's just that it's pooled
• 32:53
  mining as it's supposed to be without the permission.
• 32:56
  That's why the name Ocean is there in the 1st place, right?
• 32:58
  Because it's not. It's analogous to needing
• 33:01
  permission to swim in a hotel, swimming pool or something like
• 33:04
  that, versus the ocean, which is just open for everyone and you
• 33:07
  just go ahead and do it and no one's going to tell you you
• 33:09
  can't run or dive or any of that stuff.
• 33:11
  It's just it's free, it's open, and you shouldn't need to jump
• 33:15
  through a bunch of KYC hoops and require essentially a bank
• 33:19
  account to stash your stats in that aren't yours yet.
• 33:23
  You shouldn't need any of that stuff to to mine Bitcoin.
• 33:26
  And to be honest, the regulation has somewhat got, the regulators
• 33:31
  have somewhat got their arms around the entire mining
• 33:33
  industry already and that needed to change pretty quick.
• 33:37
  So to me it's a bit like to to wrap up this sort of stream of
• 33:42
  consciousness here. It's a bit like explaining Fiat
• 33:47
  or Bitcoin to no coiners, because it's not that Bitcoin is
• 33:52
  just the easiest thing to grok necessarily, and the
• 33:56
  permissionless is permissionlessness is
• 33:59
  necessarily just immediately obviously better.
• 34:02
  But people get kicked off the incumbent system.
• 34:04
  They have bank accounts randomly closed and PayPal accounts
• 34:07
  closed, and stuff like that happens and then they just have
• 34:09
  no other choice. So this is kind of where we're
• 34:12
  at with Ocean. We're saying like, look, it's
• 34:14
  the default, like you don't need permission here.
• 34:16
  You can buy a miner and put two details into it and just earn
• 34:20
  Bitcoin. That's it.
• 34:21
  Like you can't do that in any other way.
• 34:23
  You have to have permission on some level.
• 34:25
  And there are people that would mine with ocean.
• 34:27
  I don't know who they are. I've no way of knowing who they
• 34:30
  are. If someone I don't like wants to
• 34:32
  mine with ocean, I can't stop them.
• 34:34
  Like that's that's so much more preferable than you know, the
• 34:37
  current model where it's just it's just it's just reminiscent
• 34:41
  of the old system and it's the saddest thing about it is miners
• 34:45
  mining with the sort of incumbent system.
• 34:49
  The worst thing about it is just that they they just suddenly
• 34:52
  have a massive intermediary between them and the network.
• 34:55
  But that means they don't care about Bitcoin anymore.
• 34:58
  They just want to get paid for their hash and the whole the
• 35:01
  mask will come off the system when that turns to Fiat payments
• 35:04
  rather than Bitcoin payments, which is where it's going.
• 35:07
  Like they want a guaranteed amount of money to pay for their
• 35:10
  electricity bill. The fact that they don't care
• 35:13
  about what goes in blocks or even whether blocks get found,
• 35:16
  they just want the pool to pay them based on the expected
• 35:19
  profitability of the hash rate they're pointing at them says
• 35:22
  you you can't call yourself a Bitcoin miner anymore, you're
• 35:25
  just rented hash rate and that's that's pretty disempowering and
• 35:29
  I think and it but it also for the reasons I explained around
• 35:32
  transaction fees being what sustains mining in the long run.
• 35:36
  It's also just not sustainable. So we're going to see how things
• 35:40
  materialize. Ocean is a slow burning project.
• 35:42
  It's going to be a while as things slowly ramp up and things
• 35:46
  become more realistic for miners like you do have a minimum
• 35:49
  threshold you need to be at hash rate wise.
• 35:51
  You need to find blocks regularly and frequently in
• 35:55
  order to be a viable product for most miners and we're not there
• 35:58
  yet but when we are I think it's it's just the black hole as well
• 36:02
  as everything up. You you mine with ocean because
• 36:05
  there's nowhere else to go and everyone else keeps rug pulling.
• 36:08
  So yeah that's that's roughly my my take on it at the moment.
• 36:12
  My beautiful. Thanks Mechanic.
• 36:14
  I appreciate that. So a couple questions, right.
• 36:16
  I do want to focus on the regulatory hostility because
• 36:20
  that is a, you know, a big theme.
• 36:23
  You see these these attacks by Elizabeth Warren as of late, her
• 36:27
  latest build a anti money laundering act.
• 36:30
  She's got 20 senators signed up, signed up to it essentially it
• 36:34
  was this is Vierre Richard's words, not mine.
• 36:37
  It would be an effective ban on Bitcoin mining in the United
• 36:40
  States. So clearly, you know the
• 36:42
  politicians that benefit from being able to create money for
• 36:45
  free that everyone else has to work for are not fans of
• 36:47
  Bitcoin. So they don't like competition
• 36:50
  to to their monopoly on money. So what's your take on the
• 36:53
  regulatory hostility? Is ocean prone to potential
• 36:59
  regulatory hostility And you know, why are you guys still in
• 37:02
  the United States? Why are you guys registered in,
• 37:05
  you know, in El Salvador or something like that?
• 37:07
  Is that something that you've thought about?
• 37:10
  Yeah, it's definitely something we thought about.
• 37:12
  No one is, no one is a fool in the company.
• 37:15
  America is the land of the free, except for anything to do with
• 37:18
  money, which in which case it's literally the the worst country
• 37:23
  probably in the world for financial red tape.
• 37:25
  I mean, maybe it's just because it's in stark contrast to the to
• 37:28
  the freedom mentality a lot of Americans have that.
• 37:31
  I would say that. But you know, if you go to
• 37:33
  places like Dubai and stuff, you're just astounded by the
• 37:37
  fact that you could spend $2,000,000 cash to buy something
• 37:40
  and it's normal, right? Not I'm, I'm not using that to
• 37:43
  remark on how rich everyone is. I'm just using it to remark on
• 37:46
  like if you bought a $2,000,000 apartment in America with cash
• 37:51
  and it was just like a thing you did in an afternoon, like Can
• 37:54
  you imagine doing something like that in America like?
• 37:58
  Yeah, they would show up in. They would show up at your house
• 38:00
  within 30 seconds a. 100%, like there's just like, it's $600.00
• 38:05
  is the new threshold, right? It was 10 grand for years and
• 38:08
  now it's 600 bucks. Like they just want to know what
• 38:10
  you're doing with your money. Everything requires permission
• 38:14
  and they, you know, the the value of cash is not in
• 38:17
  $1,000,000 in a briefcase isn't what it was in the 70s.
• 38:20
  So just like the practical element of, you know, evading
• 38:24
  all this stuff, it's just not realistic, right?
• 38:28
  But I mean, yeah, we're incorporated in Wyoming.
• 38:30
  It's a regulatory sandbox there. It's pretty, it's pretty
• 38:33
  friendly to us, Bitcoin friendly.
• 38:36
  I don't personally live in the States, definitely like if if
• 38:41
  living in the states became something that compromised or
• 38:44
  operating the company out of the states became something that
• 38:47
  compromised the principles of the pool, I don't think we would
• 38:49
  remain there. I just don't want to sort of
• 38:52
  make definite statements here because you know it's sort of an
• 38:55
  invitation to potentially virtue signal a bit and say we will
• 38:59
  never give in to this. But like who really cares about
• 39:01
  that? The proof is in what we actually
• 39:03
  do in those circumstances and they're not here yet.
• 39:05
  So I'm not going to tempt fate by sort of saying we're in
• 39:09
  trouble. But we we have been smart with
• 39:12
  it. We've set up the pool in such a
• 39:14
  way as we are a hash rate liaise.
• 39:17
  We are not a bank account, we're not a custodian.
• 39:19
  That invites all that regulation in the 1st place.
• 39:22
  That's very important to do because custodianship is a very
• 39:26
  specific thing. You can be in control of someone
• 39:28
  else's money without being a custodian of it.
• 39:32
  And we're very careful to make sure we don't cross that line in
• 39:35
  a definitional sense. From a Bitcoin's perspective,
• 39:38
  they're saying, hey, you take custody of tiny miners when when
• 39:42
  they mine and you can't pay them yet because you haven't hit the
• 39:45
  payout threshold, the ocean has. You're taking custody of funds
• 39:48
  and we're definitely not. That's not what custody is.
• 39:51
  We're definitely in control of smaller amounts until they hit
• 39:54
  thresholds. That's not the same thing as
• 39:56
  custody. And for some reason, every
• 39:58
  Bitcoin business that could operate this way doesn't do
• 40:02
  this. They all just immediately go,
• 40:04
  yeah, OK, we're a custodial wallet or whatever.
• 40:07
  And I'm like, OK, well, now you have to do all of the
• 40:09
  regulation. Now you or you have to wallet is
• 40:11
  Satoshi yourself. Like, we're not going to fall
• 40:14
  for that. It's a it's a mistake.
• 40:16
  It's something we've been blasted for before for trying to
• 40:18
  be tricky with our marketing or whatever.
• 40:20
  But it's not about. It's not about our users.
• 40:23
  It's about how we have to operate and avoid the kind of
• 40:26
  regulation that people are going to enjoy us not having.
• 40:29
  And this is it's permissionless mining.
• 40:31
  We don't know who anyone is. We want to keep it that way.
• 40:34
  I don't want to change that in the slightest.
• 40:36
  No thanks. And there's a way.
• 40:38
  You just have to structure things and be smart about it and
• 40:40
  go. We're not a money services
• 40:42
  business. We are not a custodian of
• 40:44
  anyone's funds. What we do is we coordinate hash
• 40:47
  rate and you know, verify the block templates are constructed
• 40:52
  in a way that splits everything among the hash rate.
• 40:56
  We also earn a fee for doing this, but that's it.
• 40:59
  We're not inviting any regulation with that.
• 41:01
  If you're going to set yourself up the way everyone else has the
• 41:04
  the bigger pools and the way exchanges do and some of the
• 41:07
  wallets, then you're just basically you you might as well
• 41:10
  just give up. If you want to have any sort of
• 41:12
  resilience to the to the regulation system the the KYC AM
• 41:16
  L matrix you you might as well just give up.
• 41:19
  Like you have to set things up correctly from the start and say
• 41:22
  no we are resolutely not a custodian.
• 41:25
  We are not serving as a bank account for anyone.
• 41:27
  We are not. Therefore we do not need to KYC
• 41:30
  anyone. We do not need to do any sort of
• 41:34
  compliance with this that and the other and you know I I I
• 41:39
  guess I'll just leave it to people to read between the lines
• 41:42
  like if if they figure it out and they come along and they go
• 41:45
  all right Ocean we figured out what it is you're doing because
• 41:48
  they're usually pretty slow with this stuff if if they come
• 41:51
  knocking at the door. I don't like I I think people
• 41:55
  can figure out what we do in that circumstance.
• 41:59
  If we did something people didn't like, we'd have no way of
• 42:01
  hiding it because everything we construct is transparent.
• 42:04
  And you know, you know, I I have to leave it at that.
• 42:08
  I'm afraid I can't sort of make any bigger pledges, but I think
• 42:11
  people should be pretty inspired and pretty confident in what we
• 42:15
  would do if the push came to the shove in that regard.
• 42:18
  Jurisdictionally, definitely. We've definitely looked at other
• 42:21
  countries, Switzerland, El Salvador, places that are
• 42:25
  obviously friendly to this stuff and have more respect for civil
• 42:28
  liberties as it comes to money. Love it.
• 42:32
  Wait, before we move on. Niko, I see you're you're
• 42:34
  getting ready to move on mechanic just kind of addressing
• 42:38
  some of the controversy out there.
• 42:40
  What would you say to people saying that there's no room for
• 42:43
  ideological minors and the only thing that matters is the fees?
• 42:48
  I'd say that claim is only equal to a Bitcoin developer's ability
• 42:53
  to write perfect code. Because if that is your
• 42:56
  perspective, there have never been any bugs.
• 42:59
  And that's just silly, like. Hold on, could you elaborate?
• 43:03
  What do you mean by that? So you have to do things that
• 43:08
  are good for Bitcoin sometimes, even if it's not necessarily
• 43:11
  great for your bottom line. That's just because or at least
• 43:14
  in the short term. I think let me reframe it.
• 43:18
  I think there's two kinds of profitability, right?
• 43:21
  There's short term and there's long term.
• 43:23
  Doing things that are profitable in the short term is not
• 43:26
  necessarily profitable in the long term.
• 43:28
  If you're a minor and you've invested that heavily into the
• 43:31
  long term health of Bitcoin as a, you know, as an ecosystem,
• 43:36
  like you got, you got a bunch of ASICS, you've bought millions of
• 43:38
  dollars worth, they're going to last for years, you're going to
• 43:41
  want to use them. If the chain becomes unusable
• 43:44
  because it's absolutely clogged with sperm, that's using it as a
• 43:48
  public spreadsheet rather than, you know, a financial network,
• 43:52
  that it's, you know that it was designed to be, you're degrading
• 43:56
  what it's supposed to be doing. That is not a good thing for the
• 43:59
  long term health of it and it's it's overly simplistic to say,
• 44:03
  oh the spam will be priced out eventually or the spammers will
• 44:06
  run out of money. That's just ridiculous.
• 44:08
  Like that's like saying there's going to be no casinos in three
• 44:10
  years because people that go gambling will have lost all
• 44:12
  their money by then. It doesn't make any sense.
• 44:14
  There's always going to be scams and they're always going to use
• 44:18
  the Bitcoin network because it's more of a there's more
• 44:21
  credibility in it than using another blockchain.
• 44:24
  So a miner that cares about the long term health of the network
• 44:28
  needs to understand where it is at the moment and say OK, look,
• 44:32
  this is not helpful to Bitcoin, it's not conducive to the things
• 44:36
  long term success. Ignoring the fact that a bunch
• 44:39
  of design choices are being rooted around like you have an
• 44:42
  opera turn limit you have a limit to the amount of arbitrary
• 44:45
  data. And this it was debated for
• 44:48
  years how to handle arbitrary data and we came to some pretty
• 44:51
  reasonable conclusions And then people found out ways to root
• 44:55
  around those limits and now the chain the the blocks are
• 44:57
  absolutely filled with absolute nonsense.
• 45:00
  And there's there's so many byproducts to this.
• 45:02
  Right. Just practical considerations.
• 45:04
  Like I made this point on Preston's podcast as well
• 45:07
  Preston Peach Like it's really hard drawing a line between scam
• 45:12
  coins and Bitcoin because. And 99% of the people on the
• 45:16
  planet, if they ask you what you're into they're trying to.
• 45:18
  You know you just met them and they're curious about you and
• 45:20
  you tell them you're a bitcoiner.
• 45:22
  They don't know anything about Bitcoin and they either got
• 45:25
  scammed or they know someone that got scammed on Bitcoin.
• 45:28
  But it's nothing to do with Bitcoin.
• 45:29
  It was another cryptocurrency that rug pulled them and they
• 45:31
  just conflate the whole thing. Bitcoin equals crypto equals
• 45:35
  scams equals FTX. Like they don't know the
• 45:38
  difference between any of this stuff and it's quite an easy
• 45:40
  line to draw. There's Bitcoin and there's shit
• 45:42
  coin. It's not the hardest line to
• 45:43
  draw. But then now you have scam coins
• 45:46
  as part of bitcoins ecosystem. You have these tokens being
• 45:50
  minted on Bitcoin, so you're going to have people in the
• 45:53
  future that are like, Oh yeah, I didn't get into crypto.
• 45:56
  I bought this this token on Bitcoin and got rug pulled.
• 45:59
  And I'm going to say right, this is really hard problem to break
• 46:03
  down and explain because you you didn't buy anything to do with
• 46:07
  Bitcoin. You bought a system that stored
• 46:09
  some of its data. You bought into this this sort
• 46:11
  of pyramid scheme that stashed some of its data in Bitcoin's
• 46:14
  blockchain. You got bamboozled into thinking
• 46:17
  that made the whole thing impregnable and reliable.
• 46:20
  And now Bitcoin is essentially the new FTX, right?
• 46:24
  It is the host for all these scam platforms, and that invites
• 46:27
  the worst kind of regulation. And no one's going to understand
• 46:31
  why. That's unwarranted because
• 46:32
  Bitcoin remains solid. If you own actual Bitcoin, the
• 46:36
  currency that sits on the Bitcoin network, it's solid.
• 46:39
  There's no Oracle problem. If you own an NFT that sits on
• 46:42
  the Bitcoin network, 99% of the people on this planet do not
• 46:46
  understand the difference. They think that you're the
• 46:48
  ownership you have of that NFT is as solid as the the UTXO you
• 46:53
  have on the Bitcoin blockchain. This is going to be a practical
• 46:56
  problem for us. When everyone gets rug pulled
• 46:58
  from all these scams, this is going to be horrible.
• 47:01
  This is the next bull market. We're going to have endless hype
• 47:04
  cycles that distort and ruin the mempool and stop this from
• 47:08
  being, you know, organic adoption of a new monetary
• 47:12
  standard. Because you know, if if more and
• 47:15
  more people use the dollar, it doesn't damage the dollar
• 47:17
  network in some capacity. It just slowly expands, right?
• 47:21
  The rails to move dollars around aren't subject to pump and dumps
• 47:25
  in the same way. Like bitcoins, block space is a
• 47:29
  scarce resource and it gets it. It's now a victim to these hype
• 47:33
  cycles that come around and make people have to, you know, they
• 47:36
  want to buy up block space suddenly because there's a new
• 47:39
  scam in town, and then they don't anymore.
• 47:41
  And we need this to organically fill up, right?
• 47:44
  It's having pump and dumps within.
• 47:46
  That dynamic is a real, it's a real corruption of how things
• 47:50
  sort of play out. And I mean, I I digress a little
• 47:55
  bit. There's several points I'm kind
• 47:56
  of making at once here. What was it?
• 47:57
  What was the initial thing you said that prompted me to do all
• 48:00
  this? That there's no space for
• 48:02
  ideological mining and it's fees.
• 48:04
  Only fees matter, yeah. If they pay the.
• 48:07
  Fee That's all that matters. It's really Bitcoin.
• 48:09
  Like look, I mean OK, the best example of that is government
• 48:13
  comes along and pays you $1,000,000 to literally just
• 48:16
  mine empty blocks. Classic 51% attack.
• 48:19
  If you're in a position to do it, you can do it.
• 48:21
  No one is going to see that as anything other than attack.
• 48:24
  And a miner should reject that money because they care about
• 48:26
  bitcoins price tank into the floor.
• 48:29
  But always in is a lesser version of that.
• 48:30
  You've got scam coins which is from venture funded, venture
• 48:35
  capitalist funded nonsense which is a result of the Cantillon
• 48:38
  effect. It's the money printer funnel
• 48:40
  funnel through VCs to scam coiners to pay miners to push
• 48:45
  out regular transactions that actually belong in the
• 48:47
  blockchain and fill it up with spam instead.
• 48:50
  If they just said leave the blocks empty and we'll pay you
• 48:53
  loads of money directly from the money printer, everyone would
• 48:55
  say, OK, that's ridiculous, you're attacking Bitcoin minus
• 48:58
  you need to stop pull your socks up and stop stop making
• 49:02
  malicious blocks, all right? You need to actually include
• 49:05
  real transactions. They still pay, by the way.
• 49:07
  It's not like you're losing a ton of money doing this.
• 49:10
  You can't accept government money to mine empty blocks.
• 49:13
  That would be over the pale, right?
• 49:14
  But it's essentially the same thing.
• 49:17
  You're accepting government money with extra steps to mine
• 49:19
  spam instead of real transactions.
• 49:21
  This fills up blocks so they still look full.
• 49:24
  These transactions still fit within some kind of rule of the
• 49:27
  network, even if they violate the intention of all of the
• 49:29
  design principles we've made over the years.
• 49:32
  But it's the same thing. Miners are being paid money by
• 49:36
  malicious entities to ignore real transactions, and that's
• 49:39
  all objectively definable in this case.
• 49:41
  So where do you go from there? Miners.
• 49:44
  OK, if you really don't care about Bitcoin, you're attacking
• 49:47
  it. You're messing it up pretty
• 49:48
  badly. And ultimately there's backlash
• 49:51
  when those things happen, and there deserves to be.
• 49:53
  And it's not like the alternative isn't lucrative.
• 49:56
  It's just that a rational miner has to have low time preference
• 50:00
  for the long term health of the network because they're probably
• 50:03
  well aware of how good Bitcoin is and can be and you know,
• 50:08
  unless they're just, unless it's just Fiat with extra steps you
• 50:12
  need to care about the health of the network.
• 50:14
  I I I don't think it's. I think people are kind of naive
• 50:17
  when they think short term profit maximalism is the only
• 50:21
  reliable motive for anyone ever I I just think that's overly
• 50:24
  simplistic and it's kind of projection of people with just
• 50:27
  no moral compass and it makes me pretty sick to be honest.
• 50:30
  I I don't even think it's accurate.
• 50:32
  So the people that say stuff like that I find I'm like that's
• 50:36
  projection bro. Like actually some there's
• 50:38
  plenty of miners demonstrably that will mine on less
• 50:41
  profitable templates because they don't want to actively take
• 50:44
  part in an attack on the Bitcoin network that's there's plenty of
• 50:47
  people demonstrably that will do that because Ocean ran like that
• 50:50
  for a couple of weeks. We had half an extra hash of
• 50:52
  people doing that stuff. Everyone was doing so
• 50:54
  voluntarily. That was not us with some secret
• 50:57
  hash rate. That was not people that were
• 50:59
  contractually obliged to do any of this stuff.
• 51:01
  This was just people that were like, I want to mine with Ocean
• 51:04
  because this is actually better for Bitcoin.
• 51:07
  At least there was some of their motivation, right?
• 51:09
  And we'll see how that that pans out.
• 51:10
  Now that we offer the the spammy templates too, we'll see how
• 51:13
  many people mine with that instead of not.
• 51:15
  We'll see what happens and the market will figure something
• 51:18
  out. But I genuinely think people do
• 51:20
  have moral compasses, and it's stupid to pretend they don't.
• 51:25
  Thanks for that mechanic. Very, very interesting
• 51:28
  conversation. Really enjoying this.
• 51:29
  By the way, people could point their hash to the ocean pool
• 51:32
  right now. Is that correct?
• 51:34
  Oh yeah, absolutely. And it's still at 0%.
• 51:37
  Well, it's 0% if you mind a knots template.
• 51:39
  Oh, and also when you're reading the tweet you called it the Audi
• 51:42
  respecter. It's the opposite.
• 51:44
  It's the OR. Disrespect.
• 51:46
  Yeah, right. We're not respecting ordinals
• 51:48
  with that template. We are disrespecting ordinals.
• 51:52
  I think. I think they need to rename
• 51:54
  that. To be honest the we didn't.
• 51:55
  I don't think. I think Luke probably wrote the
• 51:57
  patch but the main guy championing it is unhosted
• 51:59
  Marcellus who's like single handedly fighting the spam wars
• 52:04
  and he's it's growing like it's a movement, it's growing.
• 52:07
  And I think let me make that point actually back in the day I
• 52:12
  think we were all big blockers like around 20/13/2014 Bitcoin
• 52:16
  had this like looming anvil above its head which was we're
• 52:19
  going to hit the one MB cap we need to make this bigger and
• 52:22
  most people actually supported it.
• 52:23
  And then slowly we all came around to the idea of small
• 52:27
  blocks actually is the way we we need block space to be scarce in
• 52:30
  the future. And you know the the people that
• 52:32
  didn't agree forked off to Bitcoin cash and all these other
• 52:35
  scam coin versions of Bitcoin. You know, but it was a long and
• 52:40
  difficult conversation and most people were on the other side of
• 52:43
  it from where they ended up. And I think that's what's going
• 52:44
  to happen with spam right now. Everyone's like, oh, valid
• 52:47
  transaction, you got to include it or it's censorship like all
• 52:50
  this nonsense. And you know, I think over the
• 52:53
  next short while people are slowly, I've seen the movement
• 52:57
  grow. I've seen people go, actually, I
• 52:58
  hadn't thought about that like we do.
• 53:01
  We do need to limit what goes into the blockchain to being a
• 53:04
  type of transaction. You can't have someone pay 10
• 53:09
  grand in transaction fees to move five Satoshi's because it
• 53:12
  represents movement in some external system like an ordinal
• 53:17
  theoretical purchase or something like that.
• 53:19
  That breaks all of the assumptions of why people would
• 53:23
  do the things they do. No one.
• 53:25
  Why would you spend 10s of thousands of SAT's to move five
• 53:28
  SAT's? It doesn't make sense if someone
• 53:30
  is doing that. Some of the assumptions we've
• 53:32
  made about bitcoins game theory are just straight up wrong, and
• 53:35
  people are doing it because of these external systems that are
• 53:38
  essentially just something you should view as an attack.
• 53:41
  So we need to get smart as a community and figure out this is
• 53:45
  what Bitcoin needs. It needs genuine economic
• 53:47
  activity and we need to minimize anything else.
• 53:50
  It doesn't matter if the whole goal is to make sure Bitcoin's
• 53:53
  reason to be is not to make miners as rich as possible in
• 53:56
  the short term. That is not the function of
• 53:59
  Bitcoin. That's a byproduct of it and it
• 54:01
  usually works out. But having 100% economic
• 54:04
  incentive alignment between people that run nodes, people
• 54:07
  that do transactions, people that mine, people that construct
• 54:10
  templates as a pool operator, assuming they're all 100% in
• 54:13
  alignment economically, is silly because there are discrepancies
• 54:17
  in it. There are parts where miners are
• 54:19
  motivated in a way that the network itself isn't.
• 54:22
  You see that with soft fork upgrades.
• 54:24
  You know SegWit was a fight, right, between miners and node
• 54:28
  runners like it wasn't. Everyone is not magically in
• 54:30
  alignment all the time, and sometimes you have to figure out
• 54:33
  what's the healthy part of the ecosystem.
• 54:35
  And it's this is a sophisticated conversation to have and figure
• 54:38
  out and just going miners make money, it's fine.
• 54:41
  Bitcoin was perfect. Like nothing needs to be
• 54:44
  changed. And so that's just not how any
• 54:46
  of this has ever been like you have to have complicated
• 54:48
  conversations sometimes, and you have to do things that might
• 54:51
  appear short term, economically irrational for certain from
• 54:55
  certain perspectives. I mean it like the conversation
• 54:58
  is developing guys. And like my thinking on this
• 55:00
  changes every 24 hours as I talk to other people and we start
• 55:04
  figuring out what Bitcoin is and how it works.
• 55:07
  It's it's very silly to assume this was all preordained.
• 55:10
  And my favorite quote goes back to Greg Maxwell saying the best
• 55:13
  way to destroy Bitcoin is to assume its success is
• 55:16
  preordained and that there is nothing you need to do to
• 55:19
  maintain it and maintain its health and, you know, work on it
• 55:22
  and continually improve things. If you if you just take a lapse
• 55:26
  attitude because you're used to dealing with idiots that throw
• 55:28
  nonsense complaints at you like oh, the government's going to
• 55:31
  make it illegal or something like that.
• 55:33
  Silly arguments. You fight those all day and you
• 55:35
  think bitcoins perfect. There's nothing wrong with it.
• 55:37
  That's how you end up in trouble, right?
• 55:39
  You need to actually be honest with yourself, not a scam coiner
• 55:42
  trying to pump a scam coin. So they're telling you Bitcoin
• 55:44
  sucks, but you look at it and go, actually, there are some
• 55:47
  problems with Bitcoin. Let's be honest about it.
• 55:49
  Let's fix them and let's have a genuine conversation about it,
• 55:53
  and let's try very hard to make sure it stays authentic.
• 55:56
  It's not people pumping scam coins trying to throw FUD at
• 55:59
  Bitcoin. It's not idiot Luddites who are
• 56:01
  95 years old and can't figure out anything that is in gold.
• 56:05
  Like, actually there are some, you know, misalignment on
• 56:09
  incentives within the various state parts of the ecosystem,
• 56:12
  the node runners, the exchanges, the miners, the pools.
• 56:16
  Sometimes they don't all fit. Sometimes we need to figure out,
• 56:19
  all right, that's got to give, because this is more important
• 56:22
  than that, right? Gotcha.
• 56:25
  Wow. Well, hey, I'm.
• 56:26
  A monetary maximalist. So mechanic.
• 56:29
  I I endorse what you guys are doing.
• 56:31
  I love it, bro. Yeah, keep.
• 56:32
  Appreciate it man. Huge fan of of of what these
• 56:35
  guys are doing over at Ocean. You can go to ocean dot XYZ
• 56:39
  point your hash rate there today.
• 56:41
  I do want to give a shout out to our sponsor.
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• 57:16
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• 58:21
  All right, guys. Before we continue the new
• 58:22
  segment, I do want to thank Mechanic for joining us on the
• 58:26
  show Bitcoin Mechanic, thank you so much for for joining us.
• 58:29
  We really, really appreciate it. Yeah, Thanks for having me, man.
• 58:32
  Sorry to cut it off early. I've just got to, I've got to
• 58:34
  run to a meeting right now. A really good show.
• 58:37
  I like what you guys are doing here.
• 58:39
  I appreciate it. Thank you Mechanic.
• 58:40
  Thank you for coming on the show and really, really enjoyed the
• 58:43
  conversation and discussion. Thank you man.
• 58:44
  Appreciate it. Cool.
• 58:46
  See you soon guys. All right, everybody.
• 58:49
  So let's talk about the news. And before we do that, I do want
• 58:55
  to make it easy for you guys. You can scan the QR code on your
• 58:58
  screen right now and it'll take you directly to the Foundation
• 59:01
  Devices website. We can get you guess where you
• 59:03
  can get yourself a passport hardware.
• 59:05
  Remember guys, not your keys, not your Bitcoin.
• 59:09
  So scan the QR code on your screen or check the link in the
• 59:12
  video description. Anyways, so let's talk about
• 59:16
  this because Michael Saylor is preemptively doing his victory
• 59:20
  lap, and I think things really change as soon as another public
• 59:27
  company follows Michael Saylor. Now the incentive is there.
• 59:31
  It's incredibly obvious. I mean, he points it out, Choose
• 59:35
  your fighter, you have Bitcoin, you have the S&P 500, you have
• 59:39
  the NASDAQ, you have gold, you have silver, you have bonds.
• 59:42
  And here on the bottom, it says performance since August 10th,
• 59:44
  2020, when MicroStrategy adopted its Bitcoin strategy, right.
• 59:49
  So clearly it's Bitcoin strategy is 253% a A, you know just just
• 59:56
  just buying the SP500 and next funds it would have only netted
• 1:00:01
  you 40%. The NASDAQ would have only
• 1:00:04
  netted you 35%. Clearly the Bitcoin strategy is
• 1:00:08
  winning, right? So what other public company is
• 1:00:12
  gonna follow suit? I don't know.
• 1:00:14
  But that doesn't stop Michael Saylor from going on, you know,
• 1:00:17
  the legacy financial media and saying the quiet part out loud.
• 1:00:21
  Here is about a 4 minute clip. Michael Saylor goes on an
• 1:00:24
  absolute tear. Let's check it out and then
• 1:00:27
  we'll discuss it. Joining us now though is Michael
• 1:00:29
  Saylor, Micro Strategy Executive Chairman and Co Founder.
• 1:00:31
  Michael, it's great to have you on the show.
• 1:00:33
  Yeah. Thanks for having me, Morgan.
• 1:00:34
  I do want to start right there with the regulatory landscape,
• 1:00:36
  the fact that Coin Base is now filing a petition in federal
• 1:00:39
  appeals court requesting review of the decision by the SEC.
• 1:00:42
  Is this the type of situation that could impact Bitcoin or
• 1:00:45
  impact the type of your work you're doing at MicroStrategy?
• 1:00:48
  No, it's there's a lot of uncertainty around the rest of
• 1:00:50
  the crypto ecosystem, but the one certain element of the
• 1:00:53
  ecosystem is Bitcoin is universally acclaimed to be a
• 1:00:56
  global commodity or an asset without an issuer.
• 1:00:58
  So the one thing we can count on is a Bitcoin goes forward in the
• 1:01:02
  year 2024, and a strategy built around Bitcoin is generally a
• 1:01:04
  pretty safe one for institutions.
• 1:01:07
  New rules Speaking of regulations recently announced
• 1:01:09
  by the Financial Accounting Standards Board, the Fast B that
• 1:01:11
  are going to require companies to account for cryptocurrencies
• 1:01:13
  like fair like Bitcoin at fair value set to go into effect
• 1:01:16
  these rules in the next year or so, but companies can begin to
• 1:01:18
  apply them earlier than that. How is that going to affect
• 1:01:20
  MicroStrategy? You know, we welcome fair value
• 1:01:23
  accounting. It's going to, it's going to
• 1:01:24
  create much more transparency and clarity and P and LS and
• 1:01:26
  balance sheets for any companies that are holding Bitcoin.
• 1:01:29
  I think this real significance is that there are companies like
• 1:01:31
  Berkshire Hathaway and Apple Computer that have $100 billion
• 1:01:35
  plus in cash. And right now they have to
• 1:01:36
  invest it in treasuries and sovereign debt.
• 1:01:39
  And with this change in fair value accounting, you're going
• 1:01:41
  to have a commodity that's valued in as fair value and it
• 1:01:44
  becomes a legitimate Treasury reserve asset for publicly
• 1:01:46
  traded companies. Yeah.
• 1:01:47
  And we've had that conversation before and the potential for
• 1:01:50
  more adoption, although I suspect Berkshire Hathaway is
• 1:01:51
  probably not going to be on that list of companies looking to
• 1:01:54
  adopt based on commentary there. I do want to get your thoughts
• 1:01:56
  though on Bitcoin in the rally we've seen just in the last two
• 1:01:59
  months or so since early October of something like 56%.
• 1:02:02
  What do you attribute that rally to?
• 1:02:04
  You know that we're going through a digital transformation
• 1:02:06
  of everything. Apple represents a digital
• 1:02:08
  transformation of telephones and and cameras and Google's the
• 1:02:11
  transformation of books and libraries.
• 1:02:13
  Bitcoin represents a digital transformation of capital. 99.9%
• 1:02:17
  of the capital in the world is tied up in real estate and
• 1:02:19
  stocks and precious metals and bonds.
• 1:02:21
  And so we're .1% transformed. People, as they get educated on
• 1:02:26
  digital assets, are realizing that they ought to be allocating
• 1:02:28
  more and more of their capital to this digital asset.
• 1:02:30
  And so they're moving from .1 to .2% and and I think that's
• 1:02:35
  really driving the trend. It's I've said before, if
• 1:02:37
  bitcoin's not going to zero, it's going to a million.
• 1:02:39
  The real question is, is it legitimate asset?
• 1:02:41
  If it's a legitimate institutional asset, everybody
• 1:02:44
  is under allocated to it. So along those lines of how much
• 1:02:47
  is the possibility of Bitcoin spot ETF contributing to this
• 1:02:49
  recent rally geopolitics risk on rally that we've seen more
• 1:02:52
  broadly across markets amid the Fed pivot and also next year's
• 1:02:55
  having are all of these factors that are contributing.
• 1:02:58
  They're all factors. Education makes a difference.
• 1:03:00
  Institutional adoption makes a difference.
• 1:03:02
  The spot ETF news is good news. You know, loosening of monetary
• 1:03:06
  policy is good news. Inflation anywhere in the world
• 1:03:08
  drives Bitcoin adoption. And of course the halving is
• 1:03:11
  going to cut the available supply of bitcoins for sale in
• 1:03:14
  half from the miners. And so we've got a confluence of
• 1:03:17
  very bullish milestones over the next six months and I think
• 1:03:21
  smart money is investing into that.
• 1:03:23
  Ahead of it I. Do wonder what you think about
• 1:03:24
  the centralization of mining though, and whether you're
• 1:03:26
  concerned, since so much of the crypto community does seem to be
• 1:03:29
  flagging it right now. You know, people focus upon
• 1:03:32
  mining pools, but the actual mining is taking place in Bhutan
• 1:03:35
  and in Argentina and South America and Texas and Europe and
• 1:03:39
  Iceland and Africa everywhere in the world.
• 1:03:42
  And so the miners themselves are very decentralized.
• 1:03:44
  They'll remain decentralized because they're chasing after
• 1:03:47
  power that's effectively marginally free and the pools,
• 1:03:50
  they will accumulate hash rate from time to time, but they
• 1:03:53
  don't really have the power. The power is sitting next to a
• 1:03:55
  Geo thermal or or a hydroelectric project somewhere
• 1:03:59
  in the world, yeah. Argentina's going to be 1 to
• 1:04:01
  watch, especially with Miele and Power now and devaluing the peso
• 1:04:04
  amid rampant inflation. A lot of expectation that we can
• 1:04:07
  see some more Bitcoin adoption there.
• 1:04:08
  Michael Saylor, thanks so much for joining us.
• 1:04:09
  The Co founder and executive chairman of Micro Strategy.
• 1:04:12
  Thanks for having. So, I mean so, so many.
• 1:04:15
  So I mean like the, I don't know if you noticed OPTI, but they
• 1:04:17
  brought up the centralization of minors that that was one of the
• 1:04:21
  questions that wait, is Bloomberg Learning, I know.
• 1:04:24
  Is Bloomberg based. Like, what's going on?
• 1:04:26
  They rebranded and stuff. Dude, it's it's kind of
• 1:04:29
  interesting. Anyways, I do want to, I do want
• 1:04:34
  to go through the rest of this and just pull up the Bitcoin
• 1:04:39
  treasuries, right? So currently of course Micro
• 1:04:43
  Micro Strategy is leading the pack.
• 1:04:45
  Michael Saylor continues to just stack all the corn.
• 1:04:49
  You have Marathon Digital Holdings, you have Tesla, you
• 1:04:51
  have Coinbase, Love the lettuce hands.
• 1:04:53
  That's that's a good that's a good little, you know, detail.
• 1:04:57
  You have HUD eight, you have Block, you have Riot, you have
• 1:05:00
  Galaxy Digital Holdings, you have Bitcoin Group SE, you have
• 1:05:03
  Hive. So I mean, but it looks like
• 1:05:07
  it's really miners essentially like big miners, they're the
• 1:05:11
  ones that are holding the corn. So I mean you know who is going
• 1:05:16
  to be the, the, the next to follow suit.
• 1:05:19
  The gap here is just absolutely ridiculous.
• 1:05:22
  Like MicroStrategy 174,000 Bitcoin, the closest Marathon
• 1:05:28
  Digital Holdings with 13,000, that's a that's a big gap.
• 1:05:32
  Right after that you have Tesla, which is still kind of a big
• 1:05:34
  deal, like the fact that Tesla's holding Bitcoin.
• 1:05:37
  You know, as much as people hate Elon and they trash on Elon,
• 1:05:40
  that's still pretty good, right, 'cause you know, it's a it's a
• 1:05:43
  non related kind of Bitcoin company and they're just holding
• 1:05:47
  it 'cause they think it's obviously it's a better
• 1:05:49
  alternative to Fiat. And here's more of the data we
• 1:05:52
  pull you this web, we pull up this website for you guys all
• 1:05:55
  the time. It's called Price in Bitcoin 21
• 1:05:58
  and it goes by the time. So if you've been saving in
• 1:06:01
  Bitcoin, the dollar has gotten 91% cheaper over the five year
• 1:06:05
  time scale. Oil has got an 86% cheaper, gold
• 1:06:09
  has gotten 84% cheaper, the SMP 500 has got an 82% cheaper, and
• 1:06:14
  a house. Even though housing prices have
• 1:06:16
  doubled since all the Fiat money printing, housing has gotten 78%
• 1:06:21
  cheaper if you round up 79% cheaper.
• 1:06:23
  So I mean, look, the proof is in the pudding.
• 1:06:27
  I think Michael Sailor has demonstrated that on a public
• 1:06:30
  company level, on a, you know, on a on a nation state level,
• 1:06:34
  you have Naimbu Kele who's been vindicated ever since the price
• 1:06:37
  of Bitcoin has gone above 40K. So I mean, I I don't know, I
• 1:06:40
  don't know about you Opti, but I'm feeling good, bro.
• 1:06:43
  I'm feeling good. You know, this is, this is good
• 1:06:46
  stuff. I think Sailor is winning, and I
• 1:06:48
  think it's just a matter of time before another public company
• 1:06:52
  falls in his footsteps. Which will be the one?
• 1:06:55
  That's the big question. Which will be the one, But that
• 1:06:58
  will definitely break the Internet.
• 1:07:00
  Niko, wait, wait, pull up Andre's comment.
• 1:07:03
  Niko's not that. Cold in my.
• 1:07:05
  Way stop being a baby, dude. You you missed it.
• 1:07:08
  You missed it, bro. I was.
• 1:07:10
  I was like. Show the ocean logo on there.
• 1:07:12
  I was in character before, you know.
• 1:07:15
  We had mechanic on. He showed.
• 1:07:17
  Mechanic on mechanic was going nuts, but you know, pull up the
• 1:07:21
  the hood again. All right.
• 1:07:22
  Opti, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, I've been saying
• 1:07:25
  this for a minute that I, I think, you know, the Bitcoin
• 1:07:30
  spot, Bitcoin ETF, of course, that's been like all the rage
• 1:07:33
  and that's all the news. Going on.
• 1:07:37
  And that that's like all, you know, all the.
• 1:07:39
  Hype right now. Always have been that you know
• 1:07:42
  the spot Bitcoin ETF is all the rage right now because Wall
• 1:07:44
  Street is is, you know, itching to get some exposure to Bitcoin
• 1:07:48
  and of course that will push number to go up.
• 1:07:52
  Of course we are not big advocates of the spot Bitcoin
• 1:07:55
  ETF. We want you guys to hold Bitcoin
• 1:07:56
  directly so that that's been all the rage.
• 1:07:59
  But as Sailor has shown and will show moving into 2024, and as
• 1:08:05
  we're going to see at the very end of the year with this new
• 1:08:08
  FASB accounting rule change, I think one of the big important
• 1:08:13
  things that we're going to see is corporations adding Bitcoin
• 1:08:16
  to their balance sheets. And everyone has the same
• 1:08:19
  problem right now. There's nothing to hold besides
• 1:08:22
  Bitcoin. Yes, you know, there's real
• 1:08:24
  estate, of course, you know, land will always be something to
• 1:08:27
  hold. Right now, it's kind of become
• 1:08:30
  one of the investment vehicles for people and then Treasuries
• 1:08:34
  around the world, Everyone's dropping U.S.
• 1:08:36
  Treasuries. No one wants U.S. debt anymore.
• 1:08:38
  And then if they're holding, what, billions of dollars of
• 1:08:42
  Fiat cash on the sidelines, they're all losing value right
• 1:08:46
  now. And so everyone.
• 1:08:47
  Has. It's not, yeah.
• 1:08:50
  Everyone has the same problem right now.
• 1:08:52
  And I've been saying this for a couple of weeks now, that
• 1:08:54
  Bitcoin is so much bigger than anyone.
• 1:08:57
  Corporation. It's so much.
• 1:08:58
  Bigger. Shut up and we have corporations
• 1:09:02
  with bigger market caps in Bitcoin.
• 1:09:03
  Like the mass isn't working out guys and we know that everyone
• 1:09:08
  and their mother is going to be looking at Bitcoin because
• 1:09:11
  again, everyone has the same problem right now and people
• 1:09:14
  want to ensure that their value increases over time.
• 1:09:18
  We all need a solid store of value and that is what Bitcoin
• 1:09:22
  is. And so as Sailor has shown,
• 1:09:26
  whether it's on a corporate level or Buchelli on a nation
• 1:09:30
  state level, everyone is going to want to hold some Bitcoin.
• 1:09:34
  And now we're seeing that like sailor's gonna start making the
• 1:09:36
  rounds. Sailor Sailor is basically
• 1:09:40
  proving the the corporate playbook for people out there.
• 1:09:44
  And yeah, right now he's the crazy one.
• 1:09:46
  But moving forward, especially after 2024, like you, if you're
• 1:09:51
  CEO and you don't have Bitcoin on your balance sheet, like
• 1:09:55
  you're not only doing your company a disservice, but your
• 1:09:57
  shareholders A disservice and you will need to have some
• 1:10:00
  Bitcoin exposure. Again, guys, Bitcoin has a
• 1:10:03
  market cap less than some corporate, some of the biggest
• 1:10:07
  corporations in the world. Bitcoin is bigger than anyone
• 1:10:09
  company, It's bigger than anyone nation, It's bigger than all of
• 1:10:12
  us. And it's still a tiny, tiny
• 1:10:16
  little drop in the bucket of all the capital going around the
• 1:10:19
  world. I really do believe that when we
• 1:10:21
  see another domino fall, it's going it's going to really kick
• 1:10:24
  off the race. It's that gradually then
• 1:10:26
  suddenly meme like right now. You know this is the gradually
• 1:10:29
  sailors kind of proven the point people are still looking at
• 1:10:32
  sailor like man why is he talk so fast on Bloomberg this is 2X
• 1:10:35
  what's going on here He's super crazy And then in a year what's
• 1:10:39
  that? What's the meme?
• 1:10:39
  You know you're crazy until. Until you're right and then
• 1:10:43
  you're a genius. So like we're seeing this I.
• 1:10:45
  Think I think. I think sailor's a genius.
• 1:10:48
  He dude. He's literally a rocket
• 1:10:50
  scientist. Like and he gets Bitcoin.
• 1:10:54
  He has Bitcoin on his, on his, you know, balance sheet There is
• 1:10:58
  like the Apples of the world that are what trillion dollar
• 1:11:01
  market caps. Like Bitcoin is way bigger than
• 1:11:03
  Apple and Apple's the biggest company in the world.
• 1:11:06
  Like Bitcoin is bigger than everything.
• 1:11:07
  And then actually one of the things that I wanted to mention
• 1:11:09
  is you were showing the the Bitcoin, what's it Bitcoin rich
• 1:11:14
  list or treasury list or whatever?
• 1:11:15
  No, I'll pull it up. Man, can we acknowledge just how
• 1:11:19
  coin bases like they they had such an early advantage here and
• 1:11:24
  they're barely holding any Bitcoin.
• 1:11:26
  Like, God, man, they they really, they're really, really
• 1:11:30
  shooting themselves in the flood.
• 1:11:32
  And they could have just bought Bitcoin and their stock price
• 1:11:35
  would have been like so much tired today.
• 1:11:37
  It's so funny. Goodness, it's crazy.
• 1:11:39
  And then and then like stop. Renting the real It's so easy.
• 1:11:43
  Just stay humble. Stacks.
• 1:11:44
  It's so easy. But I mean micro strategy stock
• 1:11:49
  has I'm pretty sure if I if I'm remembering correctly
• 1:11:52
  outperformed Bitcoin this year. Like if that isn't showing to
• 1:11:55
  the shareholders and the CE OS out there that Bitcoin is a
• 1:11:58
  viable strategy for them and they have to look into Bitcoin.
• 1:12:01
  Like I don't know what is you know like hey we we had a whole
• 1:12:05
  conversation about does money make the world go round with
• 1:12:08
  mechanic and and in in the sense of minors it's like everyone is
• 1:12:11
  looking at the same playing field and they're like oh wait
• 1:12:14
  maybe these bit corners are correct and maybe I need to own
• 1:12:17
  some Bitcoin. And now we're just going to
• 1:12:19
  constantly keep proving this to people and once the next domino
• 1:12:23
  falls it. I really do think it's going to
• 1:12:26
  like it's going to kind of be how like the Bitcoin ETF news
• 1:12:29
  is, is like, you know BlackRock made their huge announcement and
• 1:12:31
  now we have what like 12 of them and we're probably going to see
• 1:12:35
  them all get released and approved at the same time.
• 1:12:38
  I think we're going to see something similar like I am, I'm
• 1:12:41
  wholly convinced that the CE OS out there running the biggest
• 1:12:45
  companies in the world, they're they're actively talking about
• 1:12:48
  this. Of course they have to run a
• 1:12:49
  business so like they can only probably do this in passing.
• 1:12:53
  But they're all looking at Bitcoin's micro micro strategies
• 1:12:56
  and Michael Saylor and being like, wow, is this going to help
• 1:12:59
  our company? Because everyone wants to make
• 1:13:01
  sure that their company keeps going.
• 1:13:03
  So who's next? I don't know.
• 1:13:06
  But hey, there's companies out there with a bigger market cap
• 1:13:09
  than Bitcoin all together. Like it's it's going to happen.
• 1:13:14
  Now who is it? I don't know.
• 1:13:16
  We'll see. I mean, we we saw what happened
• 1:13:19
  with Tesla, they did it that that kind of made a little bump
• 1:13:22
  in the market until they basically were trolling with
• 1:13:24
  Doge and then we got a little dip.
• 1:13:26
  It just shows how early this whole Bitcoin thing is.
• 1:13:28
  It's like when one person can affect the market as much as
• 1:13:32
  like an Elon Musk can. You just know we're so early
• 1:13:35
  guys and and you just need to stack SAT, make sure you're
• 1:13:38
  taking it into custody and then continue to spread the Bitcoin
• 1:13:41
  memes to your friends and family so they know what's going on or
• 1:13:45
  you know you Uncle Jim them and and you're the genius of your
• 1:13:47
  family. You know the the what's the it's
• 1:13:50
  like a Bob Marley quote. You know, the forgotten stone
• 1:13:51
  becomes the cornerstone. It's like all this ADIQ
• 1:13:54
  bitcoiners will finally be looked at as geniuses and our
• 1:13:57
  families coming up soon, Not now, obviously.
• 1:13:59
  We're the crazy ones still, but it's going to happen.
• 1:14:01
  It's inevitable. Anyone worth their salt is
• 1:14:04
  looking at Bitcoin and they're trying to figure out ways to add
• 1:14:06
  Bitcoin. Sailor, you know, basically has
• 1:14:10
  proven the model as far as I'm concerned.
• 1:14:11
  Of course, this is still what, like, I think it's only been
• 1:14:14
  like a year or so, maybe two years since he's done this move.
• 1:14:18
  So it's still early in that game and now moving forward, everyone
• 1:14:22
  is going to see this work out and be like, oh, I need to own
• 1:14:26
  some Bitcoin for my company as well.
• 1:14:30
  Bullish. Absolutely awesome to be a part
• 1:14:32
  of Bitcoin this early. And it just goes to show like
• 1:14:35
  people really have a fundamental misunderstanding of where
• 1:14:38
  Bitcoin is going. And that's why I gave Mechanic
• 1:14:42
  and Ocean so much Kudos is because look, it's still early
• 1:14:45
  and we cannot get complacent and think that Bitcoin has already
• 1:14:49
  won. There's still a lot of work to
• 1:14:51
  do. But you know, as I always say,
• 1:14:52
  my original sin is I just stay absolutely stupidly bullish.
• 1:14:56
  So here we are. Just make sure you're stacking
• 1:14:59
  sats, guys and and as we say man, just stack sats, take it in
• 1:15:02
  custody go live your life and watch the fireworks.
• 1:15:05
  It it's so simple being a bitcoiner.
• 1:15:07
  Don't complicate this stuff. It's.
• 1:15:08
  So simple. It's complicated.
• 1:15:10
  But yeah, You Beautiful speech. Opti.
• 1:15:13
  Opti coming in with the hot fire?
• 1:15:16
  Yeah, this. I think it's just a matter of
• 1:15:18
  time before another public. Company Wait, wait, wait.
• 1:15:21
  Just just for the just for speculation.
• 1:15:23
  Nico, what's your what's the company you think is going to be
• 1:15:26
  the first one. Obviously, you're gonna be
• 1:15:27
  wrong. We're gonna, dude, it's gonna be
• 1:15:30
  so random. But I think that once it like
• 1:15:33
  once one falls, like you're gonna start to see this trickle
• 1:15:38
  just because of market forces. And I think that you know it.
• 1:15:41
  Michael Saylor's obviously showing off, but of course he's
• 1:15:44
  showing off. He wants other companies to
• 1:15:46
  follow him. But it it's it's going to become
• 1:15:50
  incredibly obvious that a Bitcoin having a percentage of
• 1:15:56
  you know of your of your cash in Bitcoin is the way to go.
• 1:16:01
  And I think that once that cat goes out of the bag, like you
• 1:16:06
  can't put it back in like good luck governments you know,
• 1:16:09
  pushing treasuries like good luck you know convincing people
• 1:16:13
  to hold Fiat like you know it, it's going to be obvious.
• 1:16:17
  It's so it's going to be obvious in hindsight.
• 1:16:19
  It's obvious to us Bitcoiners, but it's hard to understand it.
• 1:16:23
  Like, it's hard to fully like, picture that.
• 1:16:27
  Just like it was very difficult to picture that a country was
• 1:16:30
  going to make Bitcoin legal tender even though we were
• 1:16:32
  talking about it. Like game theory was.
• 1:16:35
  Like, I remember, like, it's so obvious this is going to happen
• 1:16:38
  on a nation state level. And then all of a sudden, you
• 1:16:41
  know, Bitcoin 2021 happened in the Bitcoin conference and you
• 1:16:45
  have Naeem Bukele making his announcement.
• 1:16:47
  And it was still a shocker because we could talk about it
• 1:16:51
  in theory, but once it happens in reality, it's still shocking.
• 1:16:55
  Like you still can't believe it. You're like, no, there's no way,
• 1:16:59
  you know. And especially like our class
• 1:17:01
  Opti 1617, you know, Bitcoin was in the shadows still, right?
• 1:17:07
  Like, forget about countries, forget about public companies.
• 1:17:11
  Like, no, no, no, no, no. Like it was not even close to
• 1:17:14
  that. So the fact that it's come all
• 1:17:15
  this way, you know it's still shocking, but at the same time,
• 1:17:19
  just because it's shocking doesn't make it surprising.
• 1:17:21
  Anyways, I hope everyone. 'S Wait, Nico, before we go, was
• 1:17:24
  this sailor not staying humble? Are we going to see Sailor not.
• 1:17:28
  Smiling. He was smiling on TV.
• 1:17:30
  He was like, yeah, like, I've never seen such a big smile on
• 1:17:34
  sailor's face. Anyways, it's going to be great.
• 1:17:37
  Guys, thank you so much for tuning in to the show.
• 1:17:39
  If you enjoyed the show, you know what to do.
• 1:17:41
  Smash that like button. Consider subscribing.
• 1:17:43
  If you feel like we provided you value, we are taking a vacation
• 1:17:47
  next week. We're taking a little bit of a
• 1:17:48
  break. So a much needed break I might
• 1:17:52
  add. So we will not be doing the show
• 1:17:54
  next week. We're going to be kind of
• 1:17:56
  enjoying the the year's end. We're going to be enjoying
• 1:17:59
  Christmas. I hope you guys enjoy the
• 1:18:01
  holidays as well, but. We'll be back a little bit,
• 1:18:03
  guys. We'll be back for a little bit.
• 1:18:05
  Stronger than ever in January, coming in hot for 2024.
• 1:18:09
  We have a lot of things planned. Anyways, we love you guys With
• 1:18:12
  this wouldn't be possible that you guys your support.
• 1:18:15
  So shout out to our YouTube audience, our rumble audience,
• 1:18:17
  our Twitter audience, our podcast audience really
• 1:18:20
  appreciate it and like I said smash the like button, share the
• 1:18:23
  video, really really helps you know with the content and we
• 1:18:27
  love you all. We'll see you tomorrow for last
• 1:18:29
  episode of Simply Bitcoin Live of 2023.
• 1:18:32
  We'll see you guys tomorrow. Peace out.